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Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #653
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hist_text-digest       Sunday, October 15 2000       Volume 01 : Number 653



In this issue:

-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Parks
-       MtMan-List: is PC?
-       MtMan-List: Alternitive list
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Western Teritorial?
-       =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20Eastern=20Mtn.=20Men=20vs.=20Weste?= =?UTF-8?Q?rn=20Mtn.=20Men?=
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       MtMan-List: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=85=C2=B9=C3=B7=C2=BF=C2=A8=C2=BF=12=E2=80=9E`=1B?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98?=
-       MtMan-List: =?iso-8859-1?B?UmU6IE10TWFuLUxpc3Q6IMMuwrnDt8K/wqjCvxLiP3pgG+I/fg==?=
-       RE: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Fwd: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Parks
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
-       Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 07:15:33 -0700
From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

C.Kent-   From what I know.... the first Mountain Men were fresh from the
East (1820's).  I , and others, refer to these  men as 'transitional'. 
They had much in common with the Eastern Longhunters, but with time and
distance assumed a little different custom of dress and behavior.  I tend
to portray a 'transitional' Mtn. Man, ie. early period.  This is probably
what your friends call an Eastern Mtn. Man?   My friends call me a 'cross
dresser'....   Gotta love those guys <g>.... Hope this helps.....   
hardtack

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:13:54 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parks

Dick,
    While the parks were loosely used to describe certain areas, they can be
easily found yet today. The easiest to mention is "South Park" (Bayou Salade
or salt marsh) - a large mountain valley which stretches from Kenoska Pass
on the north side to about Red Hill on the south (which is almost to the
Arkansas River).  Towns in it are Fairpaly, Como and Jefferson.
    "Middle Park", (old park) a higher park which is close to the eastern side of

the Contential Divide and would include: Granby, Frasier and is just west of
Rocky Mountian National Park.
    North Park is on the Colorado/ Wyoming border. Some times called the
"Bull Pen" or "New Park". This one I'm less familiar with, Was probably
around Four Corners and then goes north to the Medicine Bow mountains
in Wyoming. You can follow the LAramie River into Colorado and is seems
to be in this park. Alot of the old maps aren't clear on bounderies for the two
upper parks. Hope this helps, if you want more info, let me know.
                                    mike.

Rkleinx2@aol.com wrote:

> Trappers knew certain locales in present Colorado as North Park, Middle Park
> and South Park.  Would someone please idenify these places for me by naming a
> town that is in each of these 'Parks'. ( Or any other suitable method such as
> township etc.).
> Thank you.
>         Dick
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 06:35:45 -0500
From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: is PC?

JD said of a fellow 'skinner,

    <hand made hunting shirt
made with hand spun linen and wool, and hand woven on a period loom.
Notice I said he occasionally wears this hunting shirt. He has about $300
tied up in that one shirt.>

    Very good point. 'Back then' what might have been considered common and
ordinary is either unattainable or prohibitively expensive.
    Most of us do our best with what we have and just try to improve as we
go.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:43:56 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Alternitive list

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0368C.6FDC3E00
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey All,
Interested in a list alternative???=20
Goto  http://www.egroups.com/group/scalpdance  and check it out...  Read =
the "rules" and description carefully....
D
"

- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0368C.6FDC3E00
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY background=3D"" bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hey All,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Interested in a list alternative??? <BR>Goto&nbsp; =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.egroups.com/group/scalpdance">http://www.egroups.com/g=
roup/scalpdance</A></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp; and check it out...&nbsp; Read the "rules" and =
description=20
carefully....<BR>D<BR>"</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C0368C.6FDC3E00--


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:11:58 -0500
From: "jdearing" <jdearing@brick.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

> Does anyone know
> > the difference between the Eastern vs. Western Mtn. Men?
>
> C. Kent,
>
> Not to be flippent but basicly the Western Mtn. Men were the Eastern Mtn.
> Men gone west. The eastern mt. man might be classed with any group of
> frontiersmen that roamed the eastern woodlands and mountains beyond the
edge
> of civilization up to and including the start of the Rocky Mt. Fur Trade
on
> or about the time of Capt.s Lewis and Clarks return. The eastern mt. man
in
> the guise of several members of that expedition went with the Capt.s as
> hunters and etc.
>
Well, IMHO, you are part right. I have seen one reference calling the
eastern mountain men the"over the mountain men" because they traveled
west of, or over,  the Allegheny mountains.

> Foot travel might have been more common amongst the eastern Mt..
> man but horses were used. The western Mt.. man by necessity was mounted or
> looking for his next horse. Because of that difference there was a
> difference in what was carried to a point though I don't think personal
>gear was all that different.

Hmmm, not sure how common foot travel really was. Lets not forget that the
early over the mountain men were primarily traders and not hunters or
trappers, and they couldn't carry much in the way of trade goods on their
backs. IF they walked, they certainly lead a pack string, and more probably,
they lead a pack string while on horseback.

And lets consider how they might have transported the skins and fur back
to civilization if they were afoot. Not likely at all.  One alternative
method
of transportation was by
boat, and then we need to consider how much bulk and weight
could a few men transport in boats vs the  amount of skins the same
number of men could transport via a pack train, and which method
would be more, or less labor intensive.

Horses are mentioned allot in Colonial period documentation, and with the
distances traveled,  and the amount of skins traded why would they  walk?

Just my tupence
J.D.




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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:07:48 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

> Well, IMHO, you are part right. I have seen one reference calling the
> eastern mountain men the"over the mountain men" because they traveled
> west of, or over,  the Allegheny mountains.

Kent,

See, I told you we'd get things stired up some. <G> In a polite way of
course. <G> Now as to the term "over the mountains" men, I have heard that
used as a reference for the "group" of frontiersmen who actually lived with
families, etc. on the very edge or beyond the edge of what was at the time
eastern civilization (the towns and villages of settled Colonial and post
Rev. War America) but were considered a step above or by some to be on a par
with the wild savage. And in at least one famous battle these "over the
mountain" men came riding to the rescue from "over the mountain" as it were.

Not to take away from what J.D. added but the question was "what's the
difference between the eastern and the western mtn. man?" and as I see it
there were many varied inidviduals and lifestyles represented over the
course of our history that fit within the defines of "mountain man/men". I
see early discourse on this subject as having very narrowly singled out one
small group and sumarily hung the Title, "Mountain Men" on that group while
tending to ignore many others just as deserving of the title. The
boschloper, the long hunter, the spy/scout, Rangers, the "over moutain men",
the Metis, the courier du bouis, the voyageur, the Rocky Mountain Fur
Trapper, etc. all fit into that mistique in one way or another and there are
probably groups that I have left out much less misspelled. <G>

To exclude some is to fail to pay due respect or celebrate the courage and
wanderlust they represent and the part they all play in the history of our
country. The quintesential "Mountain Man" is the lone "trekker" by foot or
by horse or by boat that roamed the uncharted vastness of this new country.
To define by narrow perameters is a mistake. Some eastern and most if not
all western "mtn. men" were mounted. Many eastern and some western mtn. men
traveled much by water craft (which by the way will haul one hell of a lot
more tonnage for effort expended than pack train) rather than by horse. A
very few if any (and probably none by choice) western mtn. men and many more
eastern mtn. men traveled on foot.

IF they walked, they certainly lead a pack string, and more probably,
> they lead a pack string while on horseback.

It is folly to say that the eastern hunter did not use horses. Of course he
did. Did he use canoe, dugout and raft along with bateau to travel and carry
on trade? Of course he did. Did he wander off into the forest on foot for
weeks or months at a time? Yes. On purpose? Yes. Did the western mt. man do
the same? Not very often. It is all generalization.

>
> And lets consider how they might have transported the skins and fur back
> to civilization if they were afoot. Not likely at all.  One alternative
> method
> of transportation was by
> boat, and then we need to consider how much bulk and weight
> could a few men transport in boats vs the  amount of skins the same
> number of men could transport via a pack train, and which method
> would be more, or less labor intensive.

This I have to vigoursly disagree with. I would venture to say that much
more freight (skins, etc.) traveled by boat than did by horse back or mules
or even cart. The tonnage that can be sent down river from the mountains is
many times greater than what can be packstringed out. And with considerably
less effort. L&C went up river by boat as far as that mode would take them.
They went down the Columbia by boat to the ocean. The Wilson Price Hunt
venture to Astoria went up river by boat and then down the Columbia by boat
to Astoria. Pitch Pine and oakum were sent to the mountains to caulk plank
built boats during the western fur trade used to transport product back down
river.

There are numerous accounts of water craft from bull boats to very large
craft such as flatboats being built and used to move men and products up and
down eastern and western rivers from the very beginnings of this country.
The french canadian voyagure traveled thousands of miles in large birch
frieght canoes and even larger plank built York Boats, Makinaw Boats,
Columbia River Boats, etc. The goods moved by pack string was a miniscual
drop in the bucket compared to that moved over water.

But lest we romanticize one group over another, I suggest we are here to
celebrate them all. Whether a lone wanderer or a member of a of large
bridage of company men going where few if any europeans had ever gone, they
all deserve our respect, admiration and emulation. Eastern, Western,
Northern, Southern Mountain Men, Metis, whomever, they are All Heros. I
remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'






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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:56:32 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:07:48 -0700 "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
writes:
> 
> 
>> Kent,
> 
>. And in at least one famous battle these "over 
> the
> mountain" men came riding to the rescue from "over the mountain" as 
> it were.


Professor Capt. Lahti, <G>

Which famous battle are you referring to?

Eagerly awaiting your answer,
Victoria

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:52:05 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

> Professor Capt. Lahti, <G>
>
> Which famous battle are you referring to?
>
> Eagerly awaiting your answer,
> Victoria

Dang! I knew someone was gona call me on this! <G>. Was during the Rev War.
Was on a mountain. Wasn't Fergusons Rifles there and wasn't he kilt? Or
almost captured? Come on guys, what was the name of the Battle? <G> Battle
of ????? Mountain? Our side wasn't doing all that hot and in comes the "over
mountain men" on horse and they went on up the mountain and ran the British
off the hill. Right? Maybe we can drop the "Professor" part? <G>

OK, OK, I got it, Battle of King's Mountain, South Carolina, Oct. 7, 1780.
Under Col. Campbell (400 Virginia riflemen) and Cleveland (350 North
Carolina riflemen), John Sevier (with 240 over-mountain men) and Isaac
Shelby (with another 240 over-mountain men), a total of 1,400 riflemen of
the farmer, hunter and Indian fighting class, march to intercept Major
Patrick Ferguson and his 1,100 Lyalists, etc., etc........... Ferguson and
his men all Tories except their leader, attempt to hold the hight with the
bayonet, while the back woodsmen, or  "the yelling boys", assail with the
rifle. Twice the Tories force the Patriots down the mountain. The third time
this happens, the backwoodsmen swarm up, take the position, kill Ferguson
with eight rifle balls and continue killing the surrendering Tories until
order is resumed. Etc, Etc. (quoted from "The Frontier Rifleman" by Richard
B. laCrosse, Jr.)

Did that answer your question Victoria? I remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:16:38 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

 The 
> third time
> this happens, the backwoodsmen swarm up, take the position, kill 
> Ferguson
> with eight rifle balls and continue killing the surrendering Tories 
> until
> order is resumed. Etc, Etc. (quoted from "The Frontier Rifleman" by 
> Richard
> B. laCrosse, Jr.)
> 
> Did that answer your question Victoria? I remain....
> 
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'

       Capt. Lahti',
          
    Ah yes, now I remember reading, last November,
    about this battle in "The Frontier Rifleman".  That
    was 500 books and two Rendezvous ago. 
    At my age, I can't be expected to remember every
    little detail!! <G>

   Thanks for tweaking my memory,
    Victoria
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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:56:16 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

>     Ah yes, now I remember reading, last November,
>     about this battle in "The Frontier Rifleman".  That
>     was 500 books and two Rendezvous ago.
>     At my age, I can't be expected to remember every
>     little detail!! <G>
>
>    Thanks for tweaking my memory,
>     Victoria



Victoria,

At your tender age my dear young lady?! Really now, and you expect an old
sea dog as myself to be able to dredge up every scrap of flotsam that's
passed under my bowsprit since day one? <G> Well, I'm pleased to freshen up
your memory at least even if I can't freshen up your grog cup. I remain, of
course......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 05:47:51 -0700
From: Randal J Bublitz <randybublitz@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Western Teritorial?

Ole, Did anyone ever answer your question about where the Western will
be...I just found my directions...contact me off list for a
copy...hardtack

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:02:17 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20Eastern=20Mtn.=20Men=20vs.=20Weste?= =?UTF-8?Q?rn=20Mtn.=20Men?=

In a message dated 10/15/00 1:46:51 PM, rtlahti@email.msn.com writes:

<<  Twice the Tories force the Patriots down the mountain. The third time
this happens, the backwoodsmen swarm up, take the position, kill Ferguson
with eight rifle balls and continue killing the surrendering Tories until
order is resumed. Etc, Etc. (quoted from "The Frontier Rifleman" by Richard
B. laCrosse, Jr.)
 >>

AND THIS IS JUST FROM HIS MEMORY! WAIT TILL HE ACTUALLY LOOKS IT=20
UP...UNBELIEVABLE....

Ymos,
Magpie

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:50:17 EDT
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

Thanks for the input!  Is anyone familiar with any good resources to guide me 
as I begin to put together my clothing and possibles?  I want to do an 
accurate portrayal without making some costly errors at the onset!

- -C. Kent

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:11:34 EDT
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

Capt. Lahti,

I appreciate your thoughts on the differences in the eastern vs. the western 
mtn. men.
I DID notice a reference tothe "over the mtn. men" coming to hte rescue...I 
am assuming that you are referring to the "OverMountain Men" who showed up at 
the Battle of Kings Mtn against "Bloody Tarleton" and the British forces 
there.  These were not all "over-the-mtn. men" entirely - though some must 
surely have been in that esteemed number.  Most were merchants and 
"corncrackers" who rallied at Ft. Watauga near what is present-day Johnson 
City, TN and marched over the mtn.s to reach the battle.  Many of these men 
were "civilized" folk...and held positions of community and family 
responsibility in the (shudder) day-to-day operations of the township where 
they (shudder) had established households. Having lived within spitting 
distance of Ft. Watauga and on45 minutes of Kings Mtn. Battle site I have 
become somewhat-versed on the battle and the men who fought (but am by no 
means am an expert).  I cannot imagine that some over-the-mtn.-men did not 
number among the OverMountain Men!

Just another thought to keep the chat going!

- -C. Kent

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:17:33 EDT
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

Capt. Lahti,

My apologies...I did not see the posting re: the battle of Keng's Mtn. to 
Victoria before I responded my assumption that you were referring to this 
famous battle (which, indeed, you were).  

Thanks,
- -C. Kent

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:25:33 EDT
From: HikingOnThru@cs.com
Subject: MtMan-List: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=85=C2=B9=C3=B7=C2=BF=C2=A8=C2=BF=12=E2=80=9E`=1B?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=98?=

Magpie,

Just curious about your moniker!  Did the writings of a certain Terry C. 
Johnston inspire this name?

For those of you who have not read them, the author Terry C. Johnston has a 
series of books outlining the life of a young man (Mr. Titus Bass) as he 
moves from a youth in Kaintuck thru his life as a veteran fur trapper in the 
Shining Mtn.s.  DO NOT confuse him with T. JohnstonE - who wrote a series of 
books tagged as his mtn. man series...they are NOT and are bad writing by any 
measure!  The Johnston books were not written in chronological order of the 
main character's life but are "hard to put down" reading.  HE does a 
wonderful job of weaving in many of the well-known characters of the furtrade 
era and a slew of the geopgraphic places and names that appear in the known 
history texts of this era.  If you read these..you will enjoy these!  These 
come in paperback and the first in the series is Dance On The Wind...the 
inside page tell he rest of the series in order.

Sincerely,

- -C. Kent

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:33:02 -0400
From: "Frank V. Rago" <ikon@mindspring.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: =?iso-8859-1?B?UmU6IE10TWFuLUxpc3Q6IMMuwrnDt8K/wqjCvxLiP3pgG+I/fg==?=

Dance on the wind I believe is the first book, Borderlords is the second and
One eyed dream is the third in the Scratch and Paddock adventures.

If you manage to read them out of order, do not worry as they are written
very well and you can still understand what went and is going on.

Very good reading.

FVR



> Magpie,
>
> Just curious about your moniker!  Did the writings of a certain Terry C.
> Johnston inspire this name?
>
> For those of you who have not read them, the author Terry C. Johnston has
a
> series of books outlining the life of a young man (Mr. Titus Bass) as he
> moves from a youth in Kaintuck thru his life as a veteran fur trapper in
the
> Shining Mtn.s.  DO NOT confuse him with T. JohnstonE - who wrote a series
of
> books tagged as his mtn. man series...they are NOT and are bad writing by
any
> measure!  The Johnston books were not written in chronological order of
the
> main character's life but are "hard to put down" reading.  HE does a
> wonderful job of weaving in many of the well-known characters of the
furtrade
> era and a slew of the geopgraphic places and names that appear in the
known
> history texts of this era.  If you read these..you will enjoy these!
These
> come in paperback and the first in the series is Dance On The Wind...the
> inside page tell he rest of the series in order.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -C. Kent
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:49:03 -0500
From: Todd <farseer@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

There was also a rather good show on this battle on the History Channel, =
as part of their "Frontier:   The Decisive Battles" series.   The "over =
Mountain Men" were mostly farmers and hunters from the other side of the =
mountain, and were called into service to put paid to Ferguson.   The =
show appeared to be very accurate according to what I've read elsewhere, =
and has a LOT of footage of various militia and hunter types of the =
period.    Now, as to THEIR accuracy, I can't say, but they do seem to =
match the descriptions from the Frontier Rifleman (good book, by the =
way), and my Sketchbook '76.


Todd (who's 'bout decided to portray an easterner -I do like them =
looooong rifles. =3D)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Roger Lahti
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 3:52 PM
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > Professor Capt. Lahti, <G>
> >
> > Which famous battle are you referring to?
> >
> > Eagerly awaiting your answer,
> > Victoria
>=20
> Dang! I knew someone was gona call me on this! <G>. Was during=20
> the Rev War.
> Was on a mountain. Wasn't Fergusons Rifles there and wasn't he kilt? =
Or
> almost captured? Come on guys, what was the name of the Battle? <G> =
Battle
> of ????? Mountain? Our side wasn't doing all that hot and in=20
> comes the "over
> mountain men" on horse and they went on up the mountain and ran=20
> the British
> off the hill. Right? Maybe we can drop the "Professor" part? <G>
>=20
> OK, OK, I got it, Battle of King's Mountain, South Carolina, Oct. 7, =
1780.
> Under Col. Campbell (400 Virginia riflemen) and Cleveland (350 North
> Carolina riflemen), John Sevier (with 240 over-mountain men) and Isaac
> Shelby (with another 240 over-mountain men), a total of 1,400 riflemen =
of
> the farmer, hunter and Indian fighting class, march to intercept Major
> Patrick Ferguson and his 1,100 Lyalists, etc., etc........... Ferguson =
and
> his men all Tories except their leader, attempt to hold the hight with =
the
> bayonet, while the back woodsmen, or  "the yelling boys", assail with =
the
> rifle. Twice the Tories force the Patriots down the mountain. The=20
> third time
> this happens, the backwoodsmen swarm up, take the position, kill =
Ferguson
> with eight rifle balls and continue killing the surrendering Tories =
until
> order is resumed. Etc, Etc. (quoted from "The Frontier Rifleman"=20
> by Richard
> B. laCrosse, Jr.)
>=20
> Did that answer your question Victoria? I remain....
>=20
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>=20
>=20
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> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>=20


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:52:16 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

AND THIS IS JUST FROM HIS MEMORY! WAIT TILL HE ACTUALLY LOOKS IT
UP...UNBELIEVABLE....

Ymos,
Magpie

I finally did look it up and you know, it's almost word for word. <G> Like
someone else claims, "A Mind Like a Rusty Steel Trap and Illegal in 36
States!" <G> Miss Victoria sure had me going there for a fair turn of the
bells. Caught me with me legs out a scupper for sure she did. "Arghh, Matey,
The Dead Be the Lucky Ones Billy H'awkens!" <G> I remain...

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'





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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Parks

> 
> THE TOWN IN NORTH PARK IS WALDEN.
> I LIVED THREE YEARS ON A CATTLE 
> RANCH THERE AND WENT TO GRADE
> SCHOOL IN WALDEN.....MEL SWIFT
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com>
> To: swift@texhoma.net <swift@texhoma.net>
> Date: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:45 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Re: MtMan-List: Parks
> 
> 
> >
> >--- Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:13:54 -0600
> >> From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
> >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parks
> >> Reply-to: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> >> 
> >> Dick,
> >>     While the parks were loosely used to describe
> >> certain areas, they can be
> >> easily found yet today. The easiest to mention is
> >> "South Park" (Bayou Salade
> >> or salt marsh) - a large mountain valley which
> >> stretches from Kenoska Pass
> >> on the north side to about Red Hill on the south
> >> (which is almost to the
> >> Arkansas River).  Towns in it are Fairpaly, Como
> and
> >> Jefferson.
> >>     "Middle Park", (old park) a higher park which
> is
> >> close to the eastern side of
> >> 
> >> the Contential Divide and would include: Granby,
> >> Frasier and is just west of
> >> Rocky Mountian National Park.
> >>     North Park is on the Colorado/ Wyoming
> border.
> >> Some times called the
> >> "Bull Pen" or "New Park". This one I'm less
> familiar
> >> with, Was probably
> >> around Four Corners and then goes north to the
> >> Medicine Bow mountains
> >> in Wyoming. You can follow the LAramie River into
> >> Colorado and is seems
> >> to be in this park. Alot of the old maps aren't
> >> clear on bounderies for the two
> >> upper parks. Hope this helps, if you want more
> info,
> >> let me know.
> >>                                     mike.
> >> 
> >> Rkleinx2@aol.com wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Trappers knew certain locales in present
> Colorado
> >> as North Park, Middle Park
> >> > and South Park.  Would someone please idenify
> >> these places for me by naming a
> >> > town that is in each of these 'Parks'. ( Or any
> >> other suitable method such as
> >> > township etc.).
> >> > Thank you.
> >> >         Dick
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------
> >> > hist_text list info:
> >>
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ----------------------
> >> hist_text list info:
> >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> >
> >=====
> >George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >                  
>         
> >Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the
> skyline.
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
> >http://im.yahoo.com/
> >
> 


=====
George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >                           
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:06:28 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <HikingOnThru@cs.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men


> Thanks for the input!  Is anyone familiar with any good resources to guide
me
> as I begin to put together my clothing and possibles?  I want to do an
> accurate portrayal without making some costly errors at the onset!
>
> -C. Kent

C. Kent,

Try the aforementioned "The Frontier Rifleman" and the Book of Buckskinning"
series from Muzzle Loader Mag publisher Scurlock.


Capt. Lahti




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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:03:21 -0600
From: Todd Glover <tetontodd@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Terry Johnston Novels

The first trilogy begins with "Carry the Wind" not "Dance on the Wind"
and continues with "Borderlords" and "One-Eyed Dream".  THEN comes "Dance
on the Wind" followed by "Buffalo Palace" and "Crack in the Sky." The
Titus Bass stories continue in "Ride the Moon Down" and conclude (for
now) with "Death Rattle."
There are eight of them in all, and it's easy to get them confused. I
have thoroughly enjoyed them as recreational reading between between more
 serious stuff. If you haven't read them yet, enjoy!  Same goes for Allan
Eckerts' "Winning of America" series beginnijng with "The Frontiersman."

"Teton" Todd D. Glover
Poison River Party, #1784

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:13:57 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

I cannot imagine that some over-the-mtn.-men did not 
> number among the OverMountain Men!
> 
> Just another thought to keep the chat going!

C. Kent,

Your obviously closer to that part of our history than I am. I remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:17:24 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <HikingOnThru@cs.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Mtn. Men vs. Western Mtn. Men


> Capt. Lahti,
>
> My apologies...I did not see the posting re: the battle of Keng's Mtn. to
> Victoria before I responded my assumption that you were referring to this
> famous battle (which, indeed, you were).

C. Kent,

More knowledge shared need never be reason for an apology. None expected. I
remain....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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