Re: MtMan-List: mixed bloods

From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #674 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, November 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 674 In this issue: -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: tipi cover mixbloods -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Manilla rope. -牋牋牋 Re: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: hemp fabric and cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: hemp fabric and cordage -牋牋牋 RE: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Hemp -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Rope making device -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Hemp -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: mixed bloods -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Site UPDATE (Self Serveing Announcement) -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: mixed bloods -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Braziers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:56:38 -0700 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage I don't know if it's historically correct, but manila rope looks way better than yellow polypropylene. Usually modern manila has one colored strand running through it, but you can find some without that, especially if you ask for it. Here in Calgary, we found some at a specialized store called Alberta Chain & Rigging, which supplies industrial needs. You might find a similar shop in Winnipeg, because of the shipping traffic on the Red River. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred P.S. I've found shockingly few references to rope in the Canadian fur trade. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:51:15 -0700 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi cover mixbloods "Larry Huber" wrote: >Okay. I'll bite. What artists pictured Metis with canvas covered tipis in 1810? I'd like to know too; there are so few paintings from the fur trade at this time that I'd be thrilled to discover a new one. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:52:58 -0500 From: "Dennis Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C04FD4.8729D2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "be bought in the hardware store and 1/4 inch rope at Wal-Mart. " I believe that may be jute or sisal... HTere really is no replacement = for hemp rope... It is what was used on sailing ships and when properly = cared for, last for damnedever.. D - ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C04FD4.8729D2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"be bought in the hardware store and = 1/4 inch=20 rope at Wal-Mart. "

I believe that may be jute or sisal... HTere really = is no=20 replacement for hemp rope... It is what was used on sailing ships and = when=20 properly cared for, last for damnedever..

- ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C04FD4.8729D2A0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:10:34 EST From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage Trap'r, et al, Although Hemp may not be grown here legally, there is a huge amount of imported goods that are legally for sale here... check out www.hemp.com and you'll get a list of products, stores, etc. Barn - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:28:13 GMT From: "Chance Tiffie" Subject: MtMan-List: Manilla rope. Coils of Manilla rope show up on lists of trade goods, going west to the Rocky Mountains. Examples can be found using Dean's website. Cliff Tiffie PO Box 5089 Durant, OK 74702 580-924-4187 - --------------------- Aux Aliments de Pays! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:30:42 -0700 From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage

- ---- Begin Original Message ---- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Sent: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:56:38 -0700 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage I don't know if it's historically correct, but manila rope looks way better than yellow polypropylene. Usually modern manila has one colored strand running through it, but you can find some without that, especially if you ask for it. Here in Calgary, we found some at a specialized store called Alberta Chain & Rigging, which supplies industrial needs. You might find a similar shop in Winnipeg, because of the shipping traffic on the Red River. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---- End Original Message ---- At some of the bigger events from the F&I War to the Civil War here in the lower 48, quite often you'll find a "rope maker" with his machine, generally the prices are very inexpensive. Saw these folks at Ft. deChartre and Ft. Osage a few years ago. Look around in ads in Muzzleloader and Muzzle Blast.

Take care, Barry "Buck" Conner Resource & Documentation for: ___________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT ______________________________HRD__ Visit these period camp sites at: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/ ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! __ _____________________________________________
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- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:35:34 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage > Jute is available if you look hard. I use it to tie together my gear. > Unwoven it makes dandy tinder for flint and steel. Jute twine is commonly available in most hardware stores and garden centers. It is sold as garden twine and can be had in rolls either natural or colored a light green. It's very coarse and pretty well simulates hand twisted cordage. > A party of AMM brothers in San Diego county make rope out of hemp. Hemp grows wild in the US and, in Illinois at least, is commonly sprayed for along rural roadways and fencerows. There is also a false hemp, which I believe is called dogbane, that also grows wild. You can twist your own cordage from milkweed, thistle, the inner bark of elm and basswood, and several other materials, though it takes a lot of time until you become proficient. Then it still takes a lot of time, but can be done while watching TV in the evenings, or some other non-productive time. > They've a rope-making rig that twists twine together. The resulting cordage is > again twisted to make thicker rope. I believe I have posted this before. These rope machines are cumbersome. I can twist a rope quicker by hand in the time that it takes to load one of them. This info should be in the archives. It only requires 2 six inch stick of wood or dowels, and the rope is as good or better quality than that made on the machine. It can also be made using one dowel and a tree, but is more cumbersome that way. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:40:20 -0500 From: "Dennis Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage Dave, You are dead right... I have dogbane here that makes great cordage.. There is a Brother in Indiana that has a fantastic rope he made from basswood... It is a nice piece and a wonderment.. I have a 25' of hand twisted 1/4" or so hemp rope. It is well greased and has been a constant companion for near 8 yrs... With no real signs of wear..' D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:03:36 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods Wow! This List is darned impressive. I am amazed at the dedication and research that has shown up in the responses to my posting about canvas covered tipis and "mixed-bloods"! A couple of things I will throw back into the fray.... First, concerning the Metis persona cavalier de poney suggested. The reason I chose the Seneca background is because I sought refuge with an old woman on the Grand River Reserve often and over many years when I was young (1950's) - it was a better place to be than "home". "My Seneca Grandmother" was raised by her Grandmother, so most of what I learned as a child dated from the early 1800's and is NOT found in history books. In fact, by comparing notes with my (Iroquois) contemporaries, many of my "teachings" predate Handsome Lake by about 30 years. These "old ways", or at least as much as I was taught, mean a lot to me and I want to roll them into the persona. (Heck, they are going to sneak in anyway because they are how I live my life, so I might as well be up-front about it!) Now, having lived in Manitoba since the mid 1970's and having been involved in the Native community here for most of that time, the term Metis is as loaded as a keg of gun powder! I agree with Thomas Ballstaedt - I'd just as soon NOT get in to that, either today or 200 years ago. By common use (today) Metis implies French/Native; by Metis self-definition (years ago) is was a "cultural" classification - French/Native/Catholic. By both Metis and common definition, anyone else is "half-breed" with the historical connotation of being somewhat LESS "value" than white. (Sorry for the racial slurs.) Among the Iroquois, who was and wasn't a member of the tribe was decided by the tribe (and still is, much to the chagrin of the U.S. government). Inheritance was matrilineal but adoption was every bit as respected as "membership by birth". In the old days, it carried a lot of weight because an adopted member was chosen for a reason - usually something about their character - and they were often chosen to fill the role of someone who had died. Some who came to the Longhouse lived there without ever being formally adopted and never gained the status of a "real person". Among the Iroquois people, trade routes existed throughout the eastern and central part of North America long before the whiteman. Indian tobacco was traded as far west as the western plains. Minnesota soapstone (for pipes) and turquoise from the southwest was not uncommon in Iroquois country. I have heard it claimed by my People (though don't know if it is documented) that Iroquois traders were found on the Pacific coast when the west coast of Canada was "discovered" I am happy with my persona and I think I am content to live with my canvas covered tipi and put up with the occasional challenge. At least, from the comments on the list, it isn't TOO far out of line. (Finally decided on a monichre - Jin-o-ta-ka - Seneca for Muskrat, kind of appropriate I think!) Thanks all. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:42:52 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hemp fabric and cordage Sisal was mentioned but no further commentary. Is anything wrong with that? I making brooms, I have tied with both jute and sisal and found sisal to be far superior. It was used at one time for haying and was in fact called "baling twine" in the times of my youth (O.K. - so that was a long time ago - I know.) But it still shows up in farm stores. Jute shows up in garden shops - sometimes green and sometimes natural. I have even bought it out of MacFrugals and All-A-Dollar. Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:57:43 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hemp fabric and cordage > Sisal was mentioned but no further commentary. Is anything wrong with that? > I making brooms, I have tied with both jute and sisal and found sisal to be > It was used at one time for haying and was in fact called "baling twine" Much of the baling twine sold is impregnated with rat poison to keep the animals from gnawing through the twine. It really isn't proper material for ropes and such which will be handled with bare hands and perhaps transferred to the mouth or a food source. If you are going to use it, try to find some that isn't protected. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:42:51 -0800 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage Dave is correct, a rope making machine is more-or-less cumbersome and not something you would take on an expedition. We have one that stands about 5 feet tall for convenience in use (no crouching) and mine which is about 2 feet tall to fit in my old small car. Both are very simple, using several planks and a few iron hooks to accomplish the task of twisting three bundles of twine until they wind themselves into a rope. It takes only several minutes to load leisurely while explaining to visitors and 5-10 minutes to wind up a 30-40 foot piece of rope. I missed the earlier posting about how to do the same thing with 2 small sticks, which certainly sounds more portable and basic. Perhaps Dave can give us a short recap. Best Regards Yr Ob't S'vt Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com [mailto:ThisOldFox@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:36 AM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage > Jute is available if you look hard. I use it to tie together my gear. > Unwoven it makes dandy tinder for flint and steel. Jute twine is commonly available in most hardware stores and garden centers. It is sold as garden twine and can be had in rolls either natural or colored a light green. It's very coarse and pretty well simulates hand twisted cordage. > A party of AMM brothers in San Diego county make rope out of hemp. Hemp grows wild in the US and, in Illinois at least, is commonly sprayed for along rural roadways and fencerows. There is also a false hemp, which I believe is called dogbane, that also grows wild. You can twist your own cordage from milkweed, thistle, the inner bark of elm and basswood, and several other materials, though it takes a lot of time until you become proficient. Then it still takes a lot of time, but can be done while watching TV in the evenings, or some other non-productive time. > They've a rope-making rig that twists twine together. The resulting cordage is > again twisted to make thicker rope. I believe I have posted this before. These rope machines are cumbersome. I can twist a rope quicker by hand in the time that it takes to load one of them. This info should be in the archives. It only requires 2 six inch stick of wood or dowels, and the rope is as good or better quality than that made on the machine. It can also be made using one dowel and a tree, but is more cumbersome that way. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:23:13 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C04FD8.C0ED95E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually rope is not hard to make with some good yarn or cords to work = with. Those web sites I posted earlier would be a good source for the = raw materials and a scout book will show you how to make a rope = "twister" though TOF has explained an easy way to make rope with out any = props other than an anchor post and a twisting stick. I got to try that = some day myself. Some honest to god hand made hemp rope would be prime = do'ins.=20 Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dennis Miles=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 10:52 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage "be bought in the hardware store and 1/4 inch rope at Wal-Mart. " I believe that may be jute or sisal... HTere really is no replacement = for hemp rope... It is what was used on sailing ships and when properly = cared for, last for damnedever.. D - ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C04FD8.C0ED95E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Actually rope is not hard to make with some good = yarn or cords=20 to work with. Those web sites I posted earlier would be a good source = for the=20 raw materials and a scout book will show you how to make a rope = "twister" though=20 TOF has explained an easy way to make rope with out any props other than = an=20 anchor post and a twisting stick. I got to try that some day myself. = Some honest=20 to god hand made hemp rope would be prime do'ins.

Capt. Lahti'

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dennis=20 Miles
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20

Sent: Thursday, November 16, = 2000 10:52=20 AM

Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period = ropes=20 & cordage

"be bought in the hardware store = and 1/4 inch=20 rope at Wal-Mart. "

I believe that may be jute or sisal... HTere = really is no=20 replacement for hemp rope... It is what was used on sailing ships and = when=20 properly cared for, last for damnedever..

D

- ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C04FD8.C0ED95E0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:07:26 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage > I missed the earlier posting about how to do the same thing with 2 small > sticks, which certainly sounds more portable and basic. Perhaps Dave can > give us a short recap. Pat, I am always amazed that those who make rope do not know this simple method. I showed it to the ropemaker at Fort des Chartres a couple of years ago, and he was bumfoozeled. I make small hemp cords to hang my powder horns from, starting with hemp thread. Also can make any size rope, depending on what you start with. Take two 6 inch dowels. (Sticks work in the field) Tie your cord to one of them. Stick them in the ground 3X the length you want your rope to be. Loop your cord over the far one, back around the near one, and tie it off at the far one. You now have 3 stands of equal length. Have someone take each dowel in hand. Keep the cord taut and each start turning clockwise. Keep turning until the strands just start to knot up. Then pull TIGHT to set it. (of course, you know what will happen if you relax the rope when it starts to knot) Now, loop this over the far and over the near dowels again. You will again have three strands to work with. Draw them tight again, and this time, both of you turn counter-clockwise, until it starts to knot up again. The more you twist it, the tighter rope you will have. Pull hard to set the rope again. Slide it off the dowels and whip the ends. You now have a double-layed, nine strand rope. With jute twine, it will be about 5/16ths, and with binder's twine it will be about 3/8 to 1/2. To make a larger diameter rope, start with 6 strands instead of 3 and you will double the diameter. (Note: your rope will be slightly shorter than the measured distance because of the twisting. You might want to leave extra to allow for that.) This method can be done alone by using a stob on a tree instead of a partner; but it gets a mite cumbersome when trying to do the second set of looping. If everyone in your party has a 6 foot piece of rope with a loop spliced in one end and a toggle backspliced into the other, then you can string them together if necessary. ^ men X six 6 foot ropes gives you a 36 foot rope that is pretty strong. Another trick: How do you tie off your rope, descend and cliff, and recover your rope at the bottom without climbing up again. Tie your rope to a tree, and tie a sheepshank into the rope. One of the center strands is non-load bearing. Cut it. Keep tension on the rope. Descend the cliff. When you get to the bottom, shake the rope. The sheepshank will unknot. Your rope will fall down to you, leaving only a short piece at the top tied to the tree. I got caught on a set of bookcliffs (don't ask why) and couldn't get down. This method saved my butt. Lots of neat things you can do with rope. Don't know how many of them are period correct, but there had to be some ex-anchor clankers that turned out to be mountain men when they ended their sea service. Almost all knew knots and splices, which have been around for centuries. Actually, there is a pretty substantial prize available if anyone invents a "new" knot that has heretofore been unknown. Dave Kanger (Used to be a member of the "100 Knot Club" from memory. I can barely tie my shoes now. ) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:23:47 -0600 From: "harddog" Subject: MtMan-List: Hemp "Hemp grows wild in the US and, in Illinois at least, is commonly sprayed for along rural roadways and fencerows" Dave Kanger Now you went and told everybody our secret. Randy Hedden - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:12:58 -0700 From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage Good Posts on the subjects. And wasn't old Hugh Glass supposed to be an ex-pirate or something? RB - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:16:29 -0700 From: Todd Glover Subject: MtMan-List: Rope making device Pat, Check out some of the Boy Scout sites and you'll discover a simple rope making device that is quite easy to use and very portable. I've used mne often and it does a great job. "Teton" Todd D. Glover Poison River Party, #1784 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 19:37:06 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hemp harddog@mediaone.net writes: > Now you went and told everybody our secret. They need a reason to understand why we act the way we do. TOF - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 23:29:19 -0800 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: MtMan-List: mixed bloods This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C05025.0B103F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Walt there are other fur trade era half breeds such as George Druilliard of = Lewis and Clark fame and the two men who were with him when he met his = untimely demise. As well as Thiery goddin and his son Pierre who = deserted Ogden on the weber and went with Gardner's men. or antione = clement and his little brother Pierre, who came out with captain Stuart. = My point is, credit for their individual achievements should be duly = noted. however their role in fur trade history should not be = exaggerated beyond it's proper scope. sincerely; Tom - ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C05025.0B103F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Walt

there are other fur trade = era half=20 breeds such as George Druilliard of Lewis and Clark fame and the two men = who=20 were with him when he met his untimely demise. As well as Thiery goddin = and his=20 son Pierre who deserted Ogden on the weber and went with Gardner's = men. or=20 antione clement and his little brother Pierre, who came out with captain = Stuart.=20 My point is, credit for their individual achievements should be duly=20 noted. however their role in fur trade history should not be = exaggerated=20 beyond it's proper scope.

sincerely; = Tom

- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C05025.0B103F00-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:08:48 -0500 From: "Dennis Miles" Subject: MtMan-List: Site UPDATE (Self Serveing Announcement) Hia ll.. Pardon once again my intrusion.. But I have 6 new knives on the site today. Take a look, Christmas is coming.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 07:41:45 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mixed bloods > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3057291705_46481_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom, Well said! YMOS Ole #718 - ---------- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" To: Subject: MtMan-List: mixed bloods Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000, 12:29 AM Hi Walt there are other fur trade era half breeds such as George Druilliard of Lewis and Clark fame and the two men who were with him when he met his untimely demise. As well as Thiery goddin and his son Pierre who deserted Ogden on the weber and went with Gardner's men. or antione clement and his little brother Pierre, who came out with captain Stuart. My point is, credit for their individual achievements should be duly noted. however their role in fur trade history should not be exaggerated beyond it's proper scope. sincerely; Tom - --MS_Mac_OE_3057291705_46481_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: mixed bloods Tom,
Well said!
YMOS
Ole #718
- ----------
From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <tphsb@earthlink.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: mixed bloods
Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2000, 12:29 AM

Hi Walt
there are other fur trade era half breeds such as George Druilliard o= f Lewis and Clark fame and the two men who were with him when he met his unt= imely demise. As well as Thiery goddin and his son Pierre who deserted Ogden= on the weber and went with Gardner's men. or antione clement and his = little brother Pierre, who came out with captain Stuart. My point is, credit= for their individual achievements should be duly noted. however= their role in fur trade history should not be exaggerated beyond it's prope= r scope.
sincerely; Tom

- --MS_Mac_OE_3057291705_46481_MIME_Part-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 02:17:28 GMT From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves I never knew that... interesting fact... - - Ethan Sudman P.S. haven't been around in quite awhile, but I'm back now :) >From: "Roger Lahti" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves >Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 10:52:23 -0800 > >While we are talking about stoves in tents, let me warn all that it is >never >safe to use a charcoal brazier in a tent. They produce Carbon Monoxide >which >is an odorless gas that is absorbed by the hemoglobin in the blood and >restricts it's ability to carry oxygen. We have many third world emigrants >die each year in our area because they are used to using such devices to >cook and heat with. Whole families. A good working wood stove vented to the >outside as Crazy Cyot is talking about is relatively safe. Braziers are >not! >I remain..... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 11:07 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shaker stoves > > > > Henry I just want to warn you about putting a stove in a pyramid tent. >They > > have one fire hazard built in to them. It is the flap that is sewn on to >the > > tent to cover the hole for the stove pipe. When in use with a stove this >flap > > is rolled and tied up out of the way but on some if not most of these >tents > > this roll is very close to the stove pipe. You want to check and make >sure > > this is not the case with yours. I burned a big hole in the side of a 10 > > footer once because of this and have seen a couple others burn down over >the > > years because of it. If this is the case with yours there are two ways >you > > can fix it. If you will always be using a stove in it just cut the flap >off > > or take it to a tent smith and have them move the flap so it comes from >the > > bottom and have a short flap on top that it can slip under and tie in >place > > this will give you the water shed you need but when using the stove the >flap > > will be hanging down below the pipe not rolled up above the stove pipe. > > Crazy Cyot > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 02:18:54 GMT From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Braziers I'll be sure never to try that... - - Ethan Sudman (ethan_sudman@hotmail.com) >From: "harddog" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: MtMan-List: Braziers >Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:21:45 -0600 > >Capt. L, > >There was a death at the NMLRA Eastern Rendezvoous this year when a Father >and Son set up a brazier inside their tent for warmth. The Father died and >the Son was still alive and was airlifted out of the rendezvous. > >Harddog > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #674 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.