From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #776 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, April 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 776 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       MtMan-List: Canvas leggings - and how to preserve outfit -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings - and how to preserve outfit -       MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? -       MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       MtMan-List: Ft Frederick Market Fair -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? -       Fw: MtMan-List: Ft Frederick Market Fair -       Re: MtMan-List: Ft Frederick Market Fair -       MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: New Arthur A. Clark Book -       MtMan-List: Laura Glise -       Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 19:38:41 -0600 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) "Wynn Ormond" wrote: > I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is meant to > distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers not > build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are on the > receiving end .. Yes. Impossible, even. "ALAN AVERY" wote: >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once dropped a toasted marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known ever since as Sticky Tits!<< If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of humor, and I salute her. But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about things like C. T. Oakes' problem. C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he had good documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his documentation, took to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny. Finally, he gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun out of wearing them. For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this hobby for a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but we don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people would bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found a couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just wasn't fun anymore, and we stopped going to events. We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point where they, too, quit this group. Your very humble & most obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 22:52:26 -0600 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Hi chris check the list arcives there is a lot of imfo. on russia sheeting. I have a friend who does an eastern/lewis and clark personna. he made some eastern style leggings out of some hemp canvas. they look damn nice. he says he likes them for warmer weather and they are a lot lighter the his leather ones. tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Gottfred" To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:38 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > "Wynn Ormond" wrote: > > I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is meant to > > distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers not > > build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are on the > > receiving end .. > > Yes. Impossible, even. > > "ALAN AVERY" wote: > >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once > dropped a toasted marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known ever > since as Sticky Tits!<< > > If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of humor, and > I salute her. > > But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about things > like C. T. Oakes' problem. > > C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he had good > documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his documentation, took > to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny. Finally, he > gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun out > of wearing them. > > For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this hobby for > a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but we > don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our > buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping > arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the > tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people would > bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found a > couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just wasn't > fun anymore, and we stopped going to events. > > We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point where > they, too, quit this group. > > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 22:36:04 -0700 From: "ALAN AVERY" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Angela, I am sorry to hear that you and your husband are not attending events anymore. I had the priviledge of attending one of your husband's seminars on celestial navigation at Heffly Creek a few years back. It's a shame that people can't find some more productive use for their time while at rendezvous. As far as the other comments in this string go, I am in agreement re: juried events. Juried is juried and if you can't pass muster, then that's too bad. (as long as the event is publicized as such, so that someone doesn't come a long distance just to be turned away at the gate.) Black Knife Alan Avery p.s. Sticky Tits is, to my knowledge, still shooting, (and beating lots of the men too!) - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: April 2, 2001 6:45 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) >"Wynn Ormond" wrote: >> I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is meant to >> distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers not >> build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are on the >> receiving end .. > >Yes. Impossible, even. > >"ALAN AVERY" wote: > >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once >dropped a toasted marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known ever >since as Sticky Tits!<< > >If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of humor, and >I salute her. > >But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about things >like C. T. Oakes' problem. > >C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he had good >documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his documentation, took >to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny. Finally, he >gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun out >of wearing them. > >For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this hobby for >a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but we >don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our >buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping >arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the >tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people would >bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found a >couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just wasn't >fun anymore, and we stopped going to events. > >We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point where >they, too, quit this group. > >Your very humble & most obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:06:25 -0400 From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings - and how to preserve outfit Ho Camp, I know that some of you out there use canvas for leggings. I made some with some canvas duck that was given to me recently. I put a fringe on them and becasue they were so stiff ran them through the washer to loosen them up. WHOA!!! Pretty big mass of strings had unraveled when I took them out this a.m. to check them (Breechcloth was same way but that fuzzy edge will feel right nice!) I can tell that several washings will take quite a bit of length off due to unraveling and my finge will be nothing but hanging threads! Stitching slows it down but it will go eventually!. Ithought maybe some of you who make of repair period clothing there any way to treat the material to minimize or prevent this? Checked a lot of websites and the local library and the sources there mainly have info on patterns and styles...not so much on preservation. Thanks in advance. - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:52:57 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings - and how to preserve outfit I made some with some canvas duck that was given to me recently. I put a fringe on them and becasue they were so stiff ran them through the washer to loosen them up. WHOA!!! C.Kent, WHOA Indead! Might I suggest that you approached this project backwards? You probably figured that out by now. The first step would have been to wash the material first to make it soft. The second step would have been to not put fringe on canvas/linen/cloth leggings. In my opinion, it is not the right material for such a decorative treatment. They might better have been decorated with some kind of yarn tassle or small yarn ball but I think you would find any thing like fringe or tassles to be a headache in the brush. Best leave everything off. And as an asside, pull on wool leggings (in the style of a plains Indian pull on leather legging (without fringe) would be appropriate for an over the pants/britches leg covering in winter or alone if your tought, but canvas/linen leggings should be button up with a retaining strap under the arch of the foot and go just up over the knees. They should probaly be stiff enough (even to being painted with an appropriate paint and color) to stand on their own with just a knee strap on the outside, under the knee and around the leg. It appears that what you might have been trying to do was duplicate the appearance of "leather leggings" in canvas. I don't see how that can be carried off without them looking "kinda funny". If all you have is the canvas then my suggestion is to use it as it was used. Button up, painted or plain with strap under foot and a gusset in the front of the foot so they fit the leg snuggly all the way down. They should be lined with a lighter canvas or even light weigh wool. An additional thougth since it appears you will wear leggings with a breech clout, make them of canvas, pull on coming up to mid thigh only, cut straight across at the top, suspended with a thin thong to the belt on each side and decorative leg ties of leather or quilled or embroideried, and paint the leggings in the style of eastern Indian leggings, ie. a solid color with very little other color trim except what you can do tastefully in colored ribbon. No fringe uless it is an added element of "dangles", "cone tassles" etc. Leave the self fringe off. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:05:54 -0400 From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? > It appears that what you might have been trying to do was duplicate the > appearance of "leather leggings" in canvas. I don't see how that can be > carried off without them looking "kinda funny". Capt. Lahti is right - I did what research I could with the limited resources I could (our local library has a complete set of the encylopedia of Native Americans, but that gives only a gloss over of clothing styles!) I did the web search of sutlers and noticed several showed pictures of northern plains style leggings with fringe "available in leather, canvas or linen". I jumped when I should have stayed and looked for a while!!! I am trying to pertray a RMFT persona who is back east for an extended visit before returning to the Rocky Mtn.s. I hate to just ask...I have rather come to enjoy the research. But, Capt., in your opinion, would the estern woodlands style leggings go over for that persona?. I could very easily cut off the fringe and paint them. They are currently straight cut at a few inches above mid-thigh. I like the extra canvas (lotsa briar patches to meander into while doing night tacticals around our neck of the woods! ) I have noticed mid-calf breech! cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that way. > > An additional thougth since it appears you will wear leggings with a breech > clout, make them of canvas, pull on coming up to mid thigh only, cut > straight across at the top, suspended with a thin thong to the belt on each > side and decorative leg ties of leather or quilled or embroideried, and > paint the leggings in the style of eastern Indian leggings, ie. a solid > color with very little other color trim except what you can do tastefully in > colored ribbon. No fringe uless it is an added element of "dangles", "cone > tassles" etc. Also, if the good Capt. or anyone else could point me to any known resources for pc colors and coloring materials for the cloth (currently VERY khaki till I find some RIT dye remover) I would love to get a jump on painting them and the breechcloth!!! Rest assured, I will be doing my web research in the meantime as well!!! By the way, I did make modest three shooting bags and a ball pouch with the scraps and these came out very nicely with a neat fray after the wash!!!! Thanks for all! - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:25:13 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? C. Kent wrote: I have noticed mid-calf breech! cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that way. >>Don't go there either. Those long Breech Clouts were worn by Plains Indians where there wasn't a bush within miles. Either that or they were worn as ceremonial dress, Sunday-Go-To Meetin. A clout longer than mid-thigh is a absolute curse in the woods. Ever tried crossing a barbwire fence while wearing a clout ? It's an adventure. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:54:52 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? In a message dated 4/3/01 4:35:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yrrw@airmail.net writes: << Ever tried crossing a barbwire fence while wearing a clout ? It's an adventure. >> Appreciate the info and input. I have never tried crossing a barbwire fence in a breech anything~ I have noticed that when I a crossing through a barbed wire fence that a hunting partner is holding for me, a mosquito chooses that exact moment to zip into the said partners ear!!! You can predict the results!!! I re-submit my question. Would a mid-thigh legging be OK for a persona of a RMFT trapper come back east for an extended visit before returning to the Rocky Mtns.? Appreciate the feedback!!! - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:23:42 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? I am trying to portray a RMFT persona who is back east for an extended visit before returning to the Rocky Mt..s. C. Kent, The bottom line?! A RMFT back east for an extended visit? Forget everything I suggested. If you did have the same cloths on that you wore out west, your pants or knee britches would probably be of brain tan as would your coat. Since you do not have any, don't try to fake it. Go with cloth and use it properly so as not to make a serious fashion mistake. You would be dressed in drop front pantaloons (with cross strap under the foot) leather shoes or boots ankle high. You would have a white shirt with neck tie in the form of a black silk scarf or etc., a short waisted vest/weskit, a well fitted frock coat of worsted, probably wool and probably dark color, Blue, Navy, Black. A felt hat of modest brim or a top hat of beaver fur felt. you would likely have no use for leggings unless it were winter and then you would probably be wearing wool trousers/pantaloons or knee Britches with those canvas leggings I mentioned or perhaps button up wool leggings. > I hate to just ask...I have rather come to enjoy the research. But, Capt., in your opinion, would the eastern woodlands style leggings go over for that persona?. To your question above, I would say no. They would not be appropriate. But neither would the breech clout. It is generally believed that very few RMFT wore breech clout and leggings if any did. The wearing of eastern Indian clothing by Europeans was more common at the very edge of civilization by very earthy woodsmen way back in the mid 18th century. But a RMFT back in civilization would not wear such. > I could very easily cut off the fringe and paint them. They are currently straight cut at a few inches above mid-thigh. Yes you could make them into shorter leggings to wear over britches or pantaloons but not with a breech clout. > I like the extra canvas (lotsa briar patches to meander into while doing night tacticals around our neck of the woods! ) I have noticed mid-calf breech cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that way. I suspect what your seeing are paintings of frontier characters of the 18th century not the 19th Century (which is the era of the RMFT). But night tacticals? Why would a RMFT back east for a visit be running around in the woods at night practicing chasing hostiles? That's from the previous Century during the various wars between the European powers, the Colonials and the various (still powerful) Eastern Tribes. > Also, if the good Capt. or anyone else could point me to any known resources for pc colors and coloring materials for the cloth (currently VERY khaki till I find some RIT dye remover) If you have plenty of this material, I would make it into britches or pantaloons via the many patterns that are available and leave the color alone, letting them age with camp chores. Forget the paint. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:21:09 -0700 From: "ALAN AVERY" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? ... not to mention accidently standing on the back flap when getting up! Yowch!!! (you probably thought there was no such thing as a self-wedgie!) In my parts we reckon that someone who shows up with a long clout to be someone who hasn't worn one for very long. (and we all watch 'em when they get up!) - -----Original Message----- From: larry pendleton To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: April 3, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? >C. Kent wrote: >I have noticed mid-calf breech! >cloths in many era paintings and a few written articles so I made it that >way. > >>>Don't go there either. Those long Breech Clouts were worn by Plains >Indians where there wasn't a bush within miles. Either that or they were >worn as ceremonial dress, Sunday-Go-To Meetin. A clout longer than >mid-thigh is a absolute curse in the woods. Ever tried crossing a barbwire >fence while wearing a clout ? It's an adventure. > >Pendleton > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 17:19:48 -0600 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Iam inclined to point out that the style my friend made his canvas leggings in, is more of a white man's gaitor type with no decoration of any sort. they are purely utilitarian in style. Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:52 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > Hi chris check the list arcives there is a lot of imfo. on russia sheeting. > I have a friend who does an eastern/lewis and clark personna. he made some > eastern style leggings out of some hemp canvas. they look damn nice. he > says he likes them for warmer weather and they are a lot lighter the his > leather ones. > tom > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela Gottfred" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > > > > "Wynn Ormond" wrote: > > > I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is meant to > > > distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers not > > > build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are on > the > > > receiving end .. > > > > Yes. Impossible, even. > > > > "ALAN AVERY" wote: > > >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once > > dropped a toasted marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known ever > > since as Sticky Tits!<< > > > > If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of humor, and > > I salute her. > > > > But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about things > > like C. T. Oakes' problem. > > > > C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he had > good > > documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his documentation, > took > > to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny. Finally, he > > gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun out > > of wearing them. > > > > For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this hobby > for > > a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but we > > don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our > > buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping > > arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the > > tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people would > > bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found a > > couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just wasn't > > fun anymore, and we stopped going to events. > > > > We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point where > > they, too, quit this group. > > > > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > > Angela Gottfred > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:54:06 -0400 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Ft Frederick Market Fair Does anyone have the URL for the Fort Frederick Market Fair? I want to go and camp, but need to know the URL so I can get the info and mail it in. Thanks... Ad Miller Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 21:16:21 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas leggings & will mid-thigh be PC for RMFT persona? In a message dated 4/3/01 6:23:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, aavery@telus.net writes: << .. not to mention accidently standing on the back flap when getting up! Yowch!!! >> Duly noted!!!! The thought never even entered my mind...till now...glad it was now and not later!!! I did get a laugh out of my young (15 years old) trapping partner when I told him of the clothing plans and offered to help him make his! He thought a breech cloth was just a "butt-flap" hanging from a string in front and back (no "under runner"). The thought of wearing that around other people mortified him...I think the words were "There's not a hunting shirt thick enough or long enough." Funny kid. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 21:10:52 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Ft Frederick Market Fair Ad Try this for Ft Frederick info. Maybe it will have what you want. Lanney Ratcliff http://members.tripod.com/FortFrederick/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Addison Miller" To: <18thCenturyAmerica@yahoogroups.com>; "Muzzle Loader Mailing List" ; Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Ft Frederick Market Fair > Does anyone have the URL for the Fort Frederick Market Fair? I want to go > and camp, but need to know the URL so I can get the info and mail it in. > > Thanks... > > Ad Miller > Alderson, WV > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:09:09 EDT From: Iambrainey@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft Frederick Market Fair No URL for the Market Fair. The following is on the Ft. Fred. website and it's URL below. April 26-29, 2001 Market Fair and Rifle Frolic The Patuxents and the Friends of Fort Frederick present the sixth annual Market Fair. Witness the best 18th century artisans, craftsmen and sutlers amidst an historical encampment. 26th, noon to 6 p.m.; 27th 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.; 28th 9 a.m. to 6 p.m.; 29th 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Service charge. http://www.dnr.state.md.us/publiclands/western/fortfrederick.html Ben "Big Fisherman" Rainey - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:35:31 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous Does anyone here in the southeast know much about this rendezvous (Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rend.)? Dates? Juried? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 03 Apr 2001 21:04:43 -0600 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: New Arthur A. Clark Book Mark - As usual, I screwed up and lost your reply on the butcher knife. = If I plead, will you resend it to me? Sorry about that. Don On Thursday, May 9, 1940, MarkLoader@aol.com wrote: >Thought every one would like to know this book is now available from = Arther >Clark. Maybe if they are overwhelmed with orders they will be encouraged = to >print and reprint more books on the RMFT = =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Thanks >Roadkill > >Book Review By Jim Wirshborn: Mountain States Weather > >Wischmann, Lesley, Frontier Diplomats:=A0 The Life and Times of Alexander >Culbertson and Natoyist-Siksina, The Arthur H. Clark Company, P. O. Box >14707, Spokane, WA 99214-0707, 1-800-842-9286.=A0=A0 2000, 400 pp, maps, = illus., >bibl, index, hardcover, $39.50 + s/h. > >Reviewed by James F. Wirshborn > >This may well be one of the best fur trade history books written and >delivered to the public in the last 25 years or more. > >Frontier Diplomats:=A0 The Life and Times of Alexander Culbertson and >Natoyist-Siksina is much more than a biography of Culbertson (1809-1879) = and >his Blood (Kainah) tribe wife Natoyist-Siksina (Holy Snake) (1825-1893).= =A0 >This 400 page book with maps and photos is a history of the Upper = Missouri >River, the American Fur Company, the upper Missouri Indian tribes and the >western expansion of America. > >In the bible of biography of the fur trade LeRoy=A0 R. Hafen's ten volume = set >of The Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West, published by = Arthur H. >Clark Company from 1965-1972, Culbertson's biography is covered by Ray H. >Mattison of the National Park Service in a mere four pages.=A0 Mattison = listed >14 references and used no primary source material in preparation of >Culbertson's biography. > >Wischmann spent an intense thorough 10 years researching Culbertson and = his >wife.=A0 She examined Culbertson's journals, that of his contemporaries, = his >business records and the business records of the American Fur Company and >other companies of the times.=A0 Culbertson was also a liaison between = Upper >Missouri tribes and the politicals of Washington, D.C.=A0 These records = were >also examined.=A0 =A0 The bibliography 14 pages of hundreds of books, = journal >articles, newspaper articles, government documents, unpublished resources,= >archival collections of university, Fort Union Trading Post National >Historical Site and other forts and posts of the west and state = historical >societies. > >Wischnmann said that she was concerned about her lack of prior knowledge >about the fur trade.=A0 This was not a hindrance but an immense help in = that >she goes back to the beginning of the Fur Trade era examining its = development >through Lewis and Clark and on through the St. Louis, Mo. company's >exploitation of the tribes as fur and hide sources.=A0 She takes the = history >from the beaver to the hide trade to the delivery of annuities for the = tribes >as treaties with the "Great White Father" were made, signed and violated >through the 1870s.=A0 She takes the time to give the background = information so >the setting is known during the time Culbertson was active as a part of = this >historical period in American development. > >Culbertson was born near Chambersburg, Penn. to a Scottish-Irish family = in >1809.=A0 He worked for his uncle on the frontiers of Florida and = Minnesota >before joining the American Fur Company in 1833.=A0 He headed west to = Fort >McKenzie near present-day Fort Benton, Mont. serving the Blackfeet.=A0 In = 1840 >he was put in charge of Fort Union near present-day Williston, >N. D. > >Culbertson and his wife worked together in creating good and relations = with >the upper Missouri tribes.=A0 John Ewers of the Smithsonian Institution >described Natoyist-Siksina, or Natawista, as her family called her, as >comparable to Sacagawea of the Lewis and Clark expedition.=A0=A0 = Culbertson and >Natawista worked for more than 30 years to forge relations between the = whites >and the tribes of the Upper Missouri. > >Culbertson founded and built Fort Benton, the "birthplace of Montana."=A0 = He >had a reputation as an honest trader which helped negotiate the end of = the >1833 Crow siege of Fort Mckenzie.=A0 He also hosted a multitude of = ministers, >artists, world travelers, scientists and government surveyors during his >tenure on the Upper Missouri. > >They are referenced in the journals of John James Audubon, Charles >Larpenteur, Nicholas Point and Pierre Jean DeSmet, among others.=A0=A0 = Culbertson >was instrumental in the success of the Fort Laramie Treaty Conference of >1851, guiding the 1853 Northern Pacific Railroad Survey party under Isaac >Stevens and played key roles in negotiating the treaty with the Blackfeet >tribes in 1855 and other treaties in following years. > >This is Wischmann's first book, an Arthur H. Clark Company publication >released October, 2000.=A0 The book is Volume XXVIII of the Arthur H. = Clark >Company's Western Frontiersman Series.=A0 The red linen cloth book is = printed >on acid-free paper and with a foil-stamped spine and front cover, no dust >jacket and was issued as a 750 limited edition and no doubt will go out = of >print quickly.=A0 > > > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:13:34 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Glise I wish there was a better way of saying this: Laura Jean Glise has been diagnosed with a brain tumor. She noticed some symptoms lately and quickly sought medical attention, and apparently caught the tumor pretty early. Her prognosis is not clear at this moment and she is scheduled to meet with more doctors on Wednesday for evaluation for treatment, probably surgery. She called us tonight and asked me to post this so her friends will know why she has been absent from the list lately. However, she asked that NO ONE CALL HER ON THE PHONE. She and her family are simply not up to taking calls. PLEASE honor this request. However, she would appreciate receiving snail mail and email. She says that she might not be able to answer any of the mail, but she would like to hear from you, that knowing that you are there with her will give her comfort and strength. I hear from Laura Jean with some regularity and I will keep the list updated as the situation develops. YMOS Lanney Ratcliff ps: Laura Jean is a fan of Jack Daniels straight up and I bet she would not mind if some of us tossed back a shot or two while speaking her name. Laura Glise 5289 Lake Hills Street SE Lacey WA 98513 Wind1838@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:22:53 -0400 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous It is not a rendezvous but a work shop on brain tanning, basket making and other primitive skills. I think it is still held a Helen, Ga. at the end of this month. Linda holley HikingOnThru@cs.com wrote: > Does anyone here in the southeast know much about this rendezvous > (Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rend.)? Dates? Juried? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:39:37 -0400 From: "Dennis Earp" <96mfg@hspower.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous Does anyone have any information, or a contact, for this event. Tks, Dennis > It is not a rendezvous but a work shop on brain tanning, basket making and > other primitive skills. I think it is still held a Helen, Ga. at the end > of this month. > > Linda holley > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:50:51 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Tom, I have been silent for a while, but have found some interesting info. A book I have had for a long time is dedicated to clothing used in America from 1400 till 1900, In one section it shows uniforms and men's clothing wore during the 1750's to 1800's. One of the uniforms was worn with "leather Knee Breaches made of comercialy available materials. This would lead me to think that there were leather breaches available that were not made of brain tan! YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) >Date: Tue, Apr 3, 2001, 4:19 PM > >Iam inclined to point out that the style my friend made his canvas leggings >in, is more of a white man's gaitor type with no decoration of any sort. >they are purely utilitarian in style. >Tom >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:52 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > > >> Hi chris check the list arcives there is a lot of imfo. on russia >sheeting. >> I have a friend who does an eastern/lewis and clark personna. he made >some >> eastern style leggings out of some hemp canvas. they look damn nice. he >> says he likes them for warmer weather and they are a lot lighter the his >> leather ones. >> tom >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angela Gottfred" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:38 PM >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) >> >> >> > "Wynn Ormond" wrote: >> > > I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is meant >to >> > > distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers not >> > > build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are on >> the >> > > receiving end .. >> > >> > Yes. Impossible, even. >> > >> > "ALAN AVERY" wote: >> > >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once >> > dropped a toasted marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known >ever >> > since as Sticky Tits!<< >> > >> > If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of humor, >and >> > I salute her. >> > >> > But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about things >> > like C. T. Oakes' problem. >> > >> > C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he had >> good >> > documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his documentation, >> took >> > to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny. Finally, >he >> > gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun >out >> > of wearing them. >> > >> > For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this hobby >> for >> > a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but we >> > don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our >> > buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping >> > arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the >> > tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people would >> > bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found a >> > couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just wasn't >> > fun anymore, and we stopped going to events. >> > >> > We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point >where >> > they, too, quit this group. >> > >> > Your very humble & most obedient servant, >> > Angela Gottfred >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------- >> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #776 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.