From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #826 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, July 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 826 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       MtMan-List: Nationals -       Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       MtMan-List: Nationals -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question -       Re: MtMan-List: Nationals -       MtMan-List: Re: Youth Presentation -       MtMan-List: Boone and Crocket -       Re: MtMan-List: Boone and Crocket -       MtMan-List: muleskinners -       Re: MtMan-List: muleskinners -       Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:25:37 -0700 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question Just to add to what could become a real "party" on this question, a correction: Most guns MADE in the East in 1827 were probably caplock ignition but by overwhelming number most guns USED in the East were Flintlock. The "old" ignition system was in production for many decades before the switch and those good old boys didn't replace anything that worked well for the latest fad. The new ignition was also comparatively expensive until usage in later decades made the cost universally affordable. Brigade leaders like Smith and Carson could afford the cost...unless you consider Smith losing his life due to fumbling with caps too great a cost. The military was certainly slow to make the change. The Texas war of Independence was conducted with Flintlocks as was the Mexican War. When the British Enfield replaced the tried and trued Brown Bess, the Americans followed suit with their Springfield just in time for the Civil War. And even though many volunteer units started the war with Flintlocks, I consider the military crossover to caplocks the official demise of the Flintlock era. Just as an interesting aside on current flintlock use among Mountain Men, at the recent AMM National Rendezvous last week twenty men stood in line to salute the flag on the 4th of July. Concerned about pan flash, the shooter next to me asked if I was shooting a flinter. I wasn't the only one who chuckled. ALL twenty men were shooting rocklocks including the person who inquired. A caplock shooter in that group is a real rare animal indeed. Larry Huber - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim gossett" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question > About the guns and ignition . Flint or cap? Most guns in the East where > probably cap by 1827. Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to caplock > pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks are > used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place in the > late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style ignition'. As > for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s > and50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. Gentleman > James > > De Santis, Nick wrote: > > > Big Dave, > > > > Just another viewpoint. I shoot with a club in western Oregon that picked > > the pre 1840 trapper era as our period of choice. We have rifle and trade > > gun competitions as separate shooting classes. I think all of the trade > > gunners are shooting flints. The rifle shooters are about 80% caps. > > Although I have to say it can be wet a lot of the year around here and a hat > > brim full of water in your frizzen can ruin an otherwise awesome shot...not > > to mention it gives your friends an under their breath chuckle. Having said > > that, I was beat hands down by a couple of rifle flinters in a trail walk > > this spring that was more than a little damp with one of them recovering > > from a frizzen full of water - and I shoot the modern way! > > > > The other thing to consider is the cost. A pound of FFFF will last 5-10 > > years for priming at $7-10, and I am paying $4 per each 100 rounds with > > caps! If you like to cut your own patches and cast your own ball, you can > > be a real economical shooter by not using caps. But of course there are > > those lousy rocks to find and hammer on.... > > > > A question for all you shooters: How may of you are shooting with a > > "moose-milk" type of water soluble oil patch lube vs. the "bear-grease" > > patch lube? I have been using the "moose-milk" now for a while and find I > > have zero bore fouling for as many rounds as I want to go. I am strictly a > > black powder man. Any comments? > > > > Travler > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cd252 [mailto:cd252@ptd.net] > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:25 PM > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > > Hi, > > > > What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the most recent > > Rendezvous > > > > Also what percentage are cap locks??? > > > > Thanks, > > Big Dave > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:27:35 EDT From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Nationals Wooooooohooooo! I'm just back from Nationals, and it was a kick in the pants! I can't remember when I had more fun without being arrested, or catching sumtin.... Them Poison River boys sure do know how to put on a great doin's. Crazy Cyot has put new meaning into the word "Crazy" .....my sides still hurt for some of the laughs he provided. I'll write a full report when I recover from an honorable injury (read blister) digging camas with my knife, .....and get released from the de-tox center..... Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:07:31 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Huber" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 3:02 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Youth Presentation > This game was played at the Fort Snelling July reenactment of the sale of > the Columbia Fur Co. to American Fur. The post variation was to stand on > nail kegs. Be sure the ground is soft! And it doesn't hurt to stay out of the Shrub Tent if your going to play the game either! Good to see you. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:36:30 -0500 From: jim gossett Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question Well. I ll be the 1842 69 caliber percussion musket was actually a flintlock and so was the 1841 Mississippi rifle was also.The upper gun was used a lot in the Mexican war and so was the 1841 by Jeff Davis" regiment .The losing side shot Brown Bess`s 2nd models same as the losing side in the American Revolution . In fact probably close to half the guns used in the West by the late 1830s were caps.I will agree that most not all but most trappers used Flints until at least the mid 1840s.By then most of them were not trappers but where hide traders. GJG Larry Huber wrote: > Just to add to what could become a real "party" on this question, a > correction: Most guns MADE in the East in 1827 were probably caplock > ignition but by overwhelming number most guns USED in the East were > Flintlock. The "old" ignition system was in production for many decades > before the switch and those good old boys didn't replace anything that > worked well for the latest fad. The new ignition was also comparatively > expensive until usage in later decades made the cost universally affordable. > Brigade leaders like Smith and Carson could afford the cost...unless you > consider Smith losing his life due to fumbling with caps too great a cost. > The military was certainly slow to make the change. The Texas war of > Independence was conducted with Flintlocks as was the Mexican War. When the > British Enfield replaced the tried and trued Brown Bess, the Americans > followed suit with their Springfield just in time for the Civil War. And > even though many volunteer units started the war with Flintlocks, I consider > the military crossover to caplocks the official demise of the Flintlock era. > > Just as an interesting aside on current flintlock use among Mountain Men, at > the recent AMM National Rendezvous last week twenty men stood in line to > salute the flag on the 4th of July. Concerned about pan flash, the shooter > next to me asked if I was shooting a flinter. I wasn't the only one who > chuckled. ALL twenty men were shooting rocklocks including the person who > inquired. A caplock shooter in that group is a real rare animal indeed. > > Larry Huber > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jim gossett" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 5:32 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > About the guns and ignition . Flint or cap? Most guns in the East where > > probably cap by 1827. Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to > caplock > > pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks > are > > used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place > in the > > late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style > ignition'. As > > for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s > > and50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. > Gentleman > > James > > > > De Santis, Nick wrote: > > > > > Big Dave, > > > > > > Just another viewpoint. I shoot with a club in western Oregon that > picked > > > the pre 1840 trapper era as our period of choice. We have rifle and > trade > > > gun competitions as separate shooting classes. I think all of the trade > > > gunners are shooting flints. The rifle shooters are about 80% caps. > > > Although I have to say it can be wet a lot of the year around here and a > hat > > > brim full of water in your frizzen can ruin an otherwise awesome > shot...not > > > to mention it gives your friends an under their breath chuckle. Having > said > > > that, I was beat hands down by a couple of rifle flinters in a trail > walk > > > this spring that was more than a little damp with one of them recovering > > > from a frizzen full of water - and I shoot the modern way! > > > > > > The other thing to consider is the cost. A pound of FFFF will last 5-10 > > > years for priming at $7-10, and I am paying $4 per each 100 rounds with > > > caps! If you like to cut your own patches and cast your own ball, you > can > > > be a real economical shooter by not using caps. But of course there are > > > those lousy rocks to find and hammer on.... > > > > > > A question for all you shooters: How may of you are shooting with a > > > "moose-milk" type of water soluble oil patch lube vs. the "bear-grease" > > > patch lube? I have been using the "moose-milk" now for a while and find > I > > > have zero bore fouling for as many rounds as I want to go. I am strictly > a > > > black powder man. Any comments? > > > > > > Travler > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: cd252 [mailto:cd252@ptd.net] > > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:25 PM > > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the most > recent > > > Rendezvous > > > > > > Also what percentage are cap locks??? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Big Dave > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:49:49 -0700 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question I was aware of the two caplocks models you mentioned but didn't feel they were the "common" military arm. How extensive was its adoption within the American forces beyond the regiment mentioned? 20%? 40%? This is not my particular area of interest although I've read two pervious accounts. They mention the caplocks being used as an exception rather than the rule. I've currently begun reading "Gone for Soldiers" by Jeff Shaara and will make a note to pay particular attention to weaponry. This discussion of 1840 armament is beyond the period of interest delineated by this list, however, if I've given "misinformation" through my own ignorance, I don't want to continue a wrong impression. I'm truly interested in learning about any new information about the extensive use of percussion arms by U.S. military forces. Larry Huber ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim gossett" To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:36 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question > Well. I ll be the 1842 69 caliber percussion musket was actually a flintlock > and so was the 1841 Mississippi rifle was also.The upper gun was used a lot in > the Mexican war and so was the 1841 by Jeff Davis" regiment .The losing side > shot Brown Bess`s 2nd models same as the losing side in the American Revolution > . In fact probably close to half the guns used in the West by the late 1830s > were caps.I will agree that most not all but most trappers used Flints until at > least the mid 1840s.By then most of them were not trappers but where hide > traders. GJG > > Larry Huber wrote: > > > Just to add to what could become a real "party" on this question, a > > correction: Most guns MADE in the East in 1827 were probably caplock > > ignition but by overwhelming number most guns USED in the East were > > Flintlock. The "old" ignition system was in production for many decades > > before the switch and those good old boys didn't replace anything that > > worked well for the latest fad. The new ignition was also comparatively > > expensive until usage in later decades made the cost universally affordable. > > Brigade leaders like Smith and Carson could afford the cost...unless you > > consider Smith losing his life due to fumbling with caps too great a cost. > > The military was certainly slow to make the change. The Texas war of > > Independence was conducted with Flintlocks as was the Mexican War. When the > > British Enfield replaced the tried and trued Brown Bess, the Americans > > followed suit with their Springfield just in time for the Civil War. And > > even though many volunteer units started the war with Flintlocks, I consider > > the military crossover to caplocks the official demise of the Flintlock era. > > > > Just as an interesting aside on current flintlock use among Mountain Men, at > > the recent AMM National Rendezvous last week twenty men stood in line to > > salute the flag on the 4th of July. Concerned about pan flash, the shooter > > next to me asked if I was shooting a flinter. I wasn't the only one who > > chuckled. ALL twenty men were shooting rocklocks including the person who > > inquired. A caplock shooter in that group is a real rare animal indeed. > > > > Larry Huber > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jim gossett" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 5:32 PM > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > > > About the guns and ignition . Flint or cap? Most guns in the East where > > > probably cap by 1827. Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to > > caplock > > > pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks > > are > > > used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place > > in the > > > late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style > > ignition'. As > > > for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s > > > and50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. > > Gentleman > > > James > > > > > > De Santis, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > Big Dave, > > > > > > > > Just another viewpoint. I shoot with a club in western Oregon that > > picked > > > > the pre 1840 trapper era as our period of choice. We have rifle and > > trade > > > > gun competitions as separate shooting classes. I think all of the trade > > > > gunners are shooting flints. The rifle shooters are about 80% caps. > > > > Although I have to say it can be wet a lot of the year around here and a > > hat > > > > brim full of water in your frizzen can ruin an otherwise awesome > > shot...not > > > > to mention it gives your friends an under their breath chuckle. Having > > said > > > > that, I was beat hands down by a couple of rifle flinters in a trail > > walk > > > > this spring that was more than a little damp with one of them recovering > > > > from a frizzen full of water - and I shoot the modern way! > > > > > > > > The other thing to consider is the cost. A pound of FFFF will last 5-10 > > > > years for priming at $7-10, and I am paying $4 per each 100 rounds with > > > > caps! If you like to cut your own patches and cast your own ball, you > > can > > > > be a real economical shooter by not using caps. But of course there are > > > > those lousy rocks to find and hammer on.... > > > > > > > > A question for all you shooters: How may of you are shooting with a > > > > "moose-milk" type of water soluble oil patch lube vs. the "bear-grease" > > > > patch lube? I have been using the "moose-milk" now for a while and find > > I > > > > have zero bore fouling for as many rounds as I want to go. I am strictly > > a > > > > black powder man. Any comments? > > > > > > > > Travler > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: cd252 [mailto:cd252@ptd.net] > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:25 PM > > > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > > Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the most > > recent > > > > Rendezvous > > > > > > > > Also what percentage are cap locks??? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Big Dave > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:06:07 EDT From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Nationals Crazy, Mike (the bar tender) and Allen "Fort" Hall..... Click Here: ammnat01.jpg - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 05:53:23 -0500 From: jim gossett Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question Watch your Top Knot.Ill be back with more on the subject of caps and flints.Personally I own more flints than caps at this time. Gentleman James Larry Huber wrote: > I was aware of the two caplocks models you mentioned but didn't feel they > were the "common" military arm. How extensive was its adoption within the > American forces beyond the regiment mentioned? 20%? 40%? This is not my > particular area of interest although I've read two pervious accounts. They > mention the caplocks being used as an exception rather than the rule. I've > currently begun reading "Gone for Soldiers" by Jeff Shaara and will make a > note to pay particular attention to weaponry. This discussion of 1840 > armament is beyond the period of interest delineated by this list, however, > if I've given "misinformation" through my own ignorance, I don't want to > continue a wrong impression. I'm truly interested in learning about any new > information about the extensive use of percussion arms by U.S. military > forces. > > Larry Huber > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jim gossett" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > Well. I ll be the 1842 69 caliber percussion musket was actually a > flintlock > > and so was the 1841 Mississippi rifle was also.The upper gun was used a > lot in > > the Mexican war and so was the 1841 by Jeff Davis" regiment .The losing > side > > shot Brown Bess`s 2nd models same as the losing side in the American > Revolution > > . In fact probably close to half the guns used in the West by the late > 1830s > > were caps.I will agree that most not all but most trappers used Flints > until at > > least the mid 1840s.By then most of them were not trappers but where hide > > traders. GJG > > > > Larry Huber wrote: > > > > > Just to add to what could become a real "party" on this question, a > > > correction: Most guns MADE in the East in 1827 were probably caplock > > > ignition but by overwhelming number most guns USED in the East were > > > Flintlock. The "old" ignition system was in production for many decades > > > before the switch and those good old boys didn't replace anything that > > > worked well for the latest fad. The new ignition was also comparatively > > > expensive until usage in later decades made the cost universally > affordable. > > > Brigade leaders like Smith and Carson could afford the cost...unless you > > > consider Smith losing his life due to fumbling with caps too great a > cost. > > > The military was certainly slow to make the change. The Texas war of > > > Independence was conducted with Flintlocks as was the Mexican War. When > the > > > British Enfield replaced the tried and trued Brown Bess, the Americans > > > followed suit with their Springfield just in time for the Civil War. > And > > > even though many volunteer units started the war with Flintlocks, I > consider > > > the military crossover to caplocks the official demise of the Flintlock > era. > > > > > > Just as an interesting aside on current flintlock use among Mountain > Men, at > > > the recent AMM National Rendezvous last week twenty men stood in line to > > > salute the flag on the 4th of July. Concerned about pan flash, the > shooter > > > next to me asked if I was shooting a flinter. I wasn't the only one who > > > chuckled. ALL twenty men were shooting rocklocks including the person > who > > > inquired. A caplock shooter in that group is a real rare animal indeed. > > > > > > Larry Huber > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jim gossett" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 5:32 PM > > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > > > > > About the guns and ignition . Flint or cap? Most guns in the East > where > > > > probably cap by 1827. Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to > > > caplock > > > > pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's > caplocks > > > are > > > > used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes > place > > > in the > > > > late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style > > > ignition'. As > > > > for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s > 40s > > > > and50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. > > > Gentleman > > > > James > > > > > > > > De Santis, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > > > Big Dave, > > > > > > > > > > Just another viewpoint. I shoot with a club in western Oregon that > > > picked > > > > > the pre 1840 trapper era as our period of choice. We have rifle and > > > trade > > > > > gun competitions as separate shooting classes. I think all of the > trade > > > > > gunners are shooting flints. The rifle shooters are about 80% caps. > > > > > Although I have to say it can be wet a lot of the year around here > and a > > > hat > > > > > brim full of water in your frizzen can ruin an otherwise awesome > > > shot...not > > > > > to mention it gives your friends an under their breath chuckle. > Having > > > said > > > > > that, I was beat hands down by a couple of rifle flinters in a trail > > > walk > > > > > this spring that was more than a little damp with one of them > recovering > > > > > from a frizzen full of water - and I shoot the modern way! > > > > > > > > > > The other thing to consider is the cost. A pound of FFFF will last > 5-10 > > > > > years for priming at $7-10, and I am paying $4 per each 100 rounds > with > > > > > caps! If you like to cut your own patches and cast your own ball, > you > > > can > > > > > be a real economical shooter by not using caps. But of course there > are > > > > > those lousy rocks to find and hammer on.... > > > > > > > > > > A question for all you shooters: How may of you are shooting with a > > > > > "moose-milk" type of water soluble oil patch lube vs. the > "bear-grease" > > > > > patch lube? I have been using the "moose-milk" now for a while and > find > > > I > > > > > have zero bore fouling for as many rounds as I want to go. I am > strictly > > > a > > > > > black powder man. Any comments? > > > > > > > > > > Travler > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: cd252 [mailto:cd252@ptd.net] > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:25 PM > > > > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > > > Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle question > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > What brand and or type of rifle is the most commonly seen at the > most > > > recent > > > > > Rendezvous > > > > > > > > > > Also what percentage are cap locks??? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Big Dave > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 08:56:13 -0400 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nationals Oh! may Gawd! did that picture wake me up this very sunny Fla. morning. Now there are some nice looking gents. Linda Holley - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:00:54 +0800 From: buck_conner@email.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Youth Presentation > This game was played at the Fort Snelling July reenactment of the sale of > the Columbia Fur Co. to American Fur. The post variation was to stand on > nail kegs. Be sure the ground is soft! > > Larry Huber ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Larry, You mentioning Ft. Snelling, I was there last week and talked to several of the living history folks working there, they told me that being state run they would be closing very shortley because their buget has been used up for the year. Was told the same thing the week before at another historical site in MN, if this is true that's real poor for "youth presentations" or any other "demos" for the state's history programs. To bad the federal goverment can't give some relief, tax breaks or whatever to keep these sites open year around or at least weekends in off seasons in MN. Do you know anything about this, hear something at the end of the local news one night, but found nothing in the Minn. paper next day ? - -- Take care, Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Make PC-to-Phone calls with Net2Phone. Sign-up today at: http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?121 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:01:33 EDT From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Boone and Crocket I just saw the last 20 minutes of "Boone and Crocket, Hunter Hero's" on the History channel. From what little I saw, Mark Baker does an outstanding job as Davie Crocket, and the show was well done. I'm sure it will be on again soon..... Ymos, Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:35:29 -0600 From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Boone and Crocket I saw the last 25 minutes and he did do a real good job. It is on again at 10pm and I have it on automatic rcord. Did you get home with your sign language tape? Did you find your shirt? I didn't find it here. GENE - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:01 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Boone and Crocket > I just saw the last 20 minutes of "Boone and Crocket, Hunter Hero's" on the > History channel. From what little I saw, Mark Baker does an outstanding job > as Davie Crocket, and the show was well done. I'm sure it will be on again > soon..... > > Ymos, > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:53:08 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: muleskinners Why were muleskinners called "muleskinners"? Seems to me that mules would not have been raised for the purpose of obtaining their hides and that there would not have been an actual occupation for skinning mules. Buffalo skinners mebbe. Mules? Naw. But the term seems to have been around for some time. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:12:41 -0700 From: "pat broehl" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: muleskinners > > Why were muleskinners called "muleskinners"? > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Frank, The term refers to the teamster using his whip to encourage the team to perform. Snapping it over their heads to hasten them along. In agravation of unsatifactory compliance,it was imagined that the driver was tempted to aim low and cut the hide with the snapping of the whip, and exude verbal threats that he was going to " skin that ornery son of a gun if he don't get going." thats the way I heard it, Itsaquain _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 06:49:44 +0800 From: buck_conner@email.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:32:57 -0500 From: jim gossett Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question About the guns and ignition . Flint or cap? Most guns in the East where probably cap by 1827. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James, I have several original U.S. Model 1816 Harpers Ferry flintlocks that weren't converted until 1828/29 and not approved for service until 1830 -marked- "US/A.WATERS/1828" and "US/A.WATERS/1829" this company did many of the conversions and where proofed by "MILLBURY/1830" (government agent)for release for serviceon this year. From 1923 until his death in 1990 my father had collected both flint and perc. military weapons of English or American forces used in the new world (here). So I can say we have seen a few over the years of these old guns and their ignition systems. We have sold, trade or swapped to collectors fron sea to shining sea as well as several museums, so I have seen a few over the years. A large part of the conversions where not in the field until the mid 1830's back east, so to state "Most guns in the East where probably cap by 1827." just really isn't true, let me tell you why. Maybe by 1835 some had changed, but remember these people followed what the military did, plus converting from one to the other system was expensive for those limited in funds when the old flinter still worked. They used their gun to mainly provide food for their families, also protection or sport, put like today it's expensive to just waste ball and powder. Usually those of means where the first to make the change, like anything else. Charles Hanson has talked and written many articles about this subject, but what I have always found interesting is there are only a few documented cases (in comparsion to the flint) of percussion being used before 1837. When St. Louis gun makers/hardware stores - (like today's Wal Mart or K Mart, sell everything) started to promoted the use of this system, either conversion or new guns (by the way many of which according to Hanson where double barrel shotguns)was in the late 1830! Charley wrote and I can't find which journal it is in right now, that many of the weapons coming west where military muskets, that was part of your pay when leaving the service (probably because of poor pay and the weapon you carried worked, it was used for the time being), interesting, sure shoots down some folks dreams. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to caplock pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks are used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place in the late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style ignition'. As for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s and 50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. Gentleman James ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As mentioned, there where both systems, the number of each is an unknown figure, like Charley said at a speech at Bent's Fort back in the late 70's, "records where not kept on such things, the only records as accurate as they would be, would be to look at the trade lists and possibly the number of flints or percussion caps being shown for that time". Not a true picture because some of flint shooters would have knapped their own with local material, rather than spend money on flint when whiskey was available. I'm sure that my old friend "Hawk" can add additional information, as can several others like Dave Kanger or Mike Moore, both good research men. Good discussion topic that will go on until we all loose interest in this hobby/sport/way of life, Thanks Gentlemen James. - -- Take care, Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Rival the best - Surpass the rest". ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Make PC-to-Phone calls with Net2Phone. Sign-up today at: http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?121 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #826 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.