From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #830 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, July 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 830 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: Re: Working a Hat.... -       MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket -       Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket -       MtMan-List: A Lady in the Wilderness: Amelia Douglas -       MtMan-List: Shaping a Hat -       Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. -       Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. -       Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) -       MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) -       Re: MtMan-List: Muleskinners/shoes -       Re: MtMan-List: Muleskinners/shoes -       Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:16:05 -0400 (EDT) From: SpiritoftheWood@webtv.net Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Working a Hat.... I buy a lot of vintage Fur felt hat's and when I want to shape them to my desire I wait for a light summer rain and wear it out till its damp then shape as I wish! A word of caution which ever method you chose I've found that Wool Felt is not as tolerant to gett'n over wet as Fur so take er easy !!! Happy shape'n!!! Cheers, M.A Smith "Ah,sweet summer Rain. Like God's own mercy." -The Devil- From,Oh Brother where Art Thou - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:34:39 -0400 From: Linda Holley Subject: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket Has anyone seen a 2 point blanket. I have a friend who is looking for one and I have not heard of a 2 point. Was there one that size?? Linda Holley - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:35:53 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket Linda, The closest I can remember is in the David Adam's Journal a 2 1/2 point red blanket was listed, page 50, price $3.34. mike. Linda Holley wrote: > Has anyone seen a 2 point blanket. I have a friend who is looking for one and > I have not heard of a 2 point. Was there one that size?? > > Linda Holley > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:51:13 -0600 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: MtMan-List: A Lady in the Wilderness: Amelia Douglas I wrote this for the 19cWoman list, but I thought you folks might like it too. If you're interested in joining 19cWoman, a mailing list on women in the 19th century, send a blank e-mail to 19cWoman-subscribe@yahoogroups.com, or go to www.yahoogroups.com/group/19cWoman/join. And now for our story: This is actually the story of two women, a mother and her daughter. In 1803, at the North West Company's Rat River post (near the Athabasca region of NE Alberta), fur trader William Connolly took a wife. His bride, Susanne Pas-de-Nom, was the daughter of a Cree chief, and their wedding meant that his furs would go to the Connolly's employer, and not the rival Hudson's Bay Company. There were no priests or ministers for well over a thousand miles in any direction, so William and Susanne couldn't have a church wedding; instead, they were married after the custom of the country ("a la facon de la pays"). They remained together for almost thirty years, and had six children together. Together, they prospered, and with the 1821 merger of the North West Company and Hudson's Bay Company, William Connolly became a Chief Factor in the new company. Connolly's work to the family to different fur posts. So it was that in 1828, at Fort St. James (in N. British Columbia), Susanne's 16-year-old daughter, Amelia, married Hudson's Bay Company trader James Douglas, again according to the custom of the country. Only two months later, while her father was away from the fur post, Amelia's new husband got into serious trouble. The HBC had been looking for several local Native men in association with a murder a few years ago. James Douglas discovered one of the suspects in the home of a local chief, apprehended him, and executed him. When Chief Kwah returned, he learned what had happened. Although he had no knowledge of the man's presence in his home, Carrier Indian tradition made a chief's home a sanctuary, a rule which Douglas had seriously violated. Kwah stormed into the fur post, seized Douglas, and held a dagger to his throat. Amelia was horrified by the situation. Amelia rushed Kwah, and succeeded in wrestling the dagger away from him, but he quickly regained it, then let her go. Luckily, Amelia and the interpreter's wife, Nancy Boucher, were familiar with local customs. The pair began throwing trade goods to Kwah and his men. This throwing of gifts was a way of showing respect among the Carriers. With this diplomatic "out", Kwah was able to back down and let Douglas live. In 1830, James Douglas was posted to the HBC's establishment at Fort Vancouver (Vancouver, Washington). And in 1831, William Connolly retired from the fur trade, and went to live near Montreal with his "country wife", Susanne. Less than a year later, she found out that marriage "according to the custom of the country" was no marriage at all in civilized Lower Canada. Despite their 28 years and six children together, the Catholic Church agreed with Connolly that he was not married to Susanne, and was free to marry his second cousin, Julia Woolrich. Susanne was given a modest income, and sent back west, to the HBC's Red River Settlement (Winnipeg). This probably explains why, on 28 Feb 1837, James and Amelia Douglas had a second marriage ceremony, this time performed by the rather obnoxious Anglican minister, Rev. Herbert Beaver. He had been trying to get all the fur traders to solemnize their unions, but his tactics left something to be desired. He ignored the fact that there had, until very recently, been no clergy of any kind west of Montreal, and he and his wife Jane spent much of their time and energy railing at the "immorality" of these unions. Even after the wedding, the Douglases were not free from his contempt; Amelia was described by the Beavers as "little calculated to improve the manners of society". Not surprisingly, Rev. Beaver performed only the one wedding at Fort Vancouver before he was forced to return to England. James Douglas' star in the Hudson's Bay Company continued to rise, and he even came to the attention of the British government. In 1851, he became Governor of the Crown Colony of Vancouver Island. In 1858, when the Cariboo gold rush swelled the mainland population, he also became Governor of the Crown Colony of British Columbia. Amelia, who had at first been quite shy because of her poor English, grew into her role as the first lady of the new colonies, welcoming the many new White visitors and immigrants. In 1861, she played hostess to Lady John Franklin, who she favourably impressed. And in 1863, when her husband was knighted in recognition of his service to the Crown, she was entitled to style herself Lady Douglas. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:42:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Shaping a Hat Steam or water work well to shape a felt hat, but here is a trick for getting it to hold its shape once you get it like you want. Spray the entire hat with liquid spray starch. I got this from an old cowboy friend of mine, and it really works. After riding in several rain storms with him his hat still retains its shape long after mine loses all semblance to its original form. It will also stiffen up a floppy brim. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:12:33 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket In a message dated 7/16/01 5:35:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tipis@mediaone.net writes: << Was there one that size?? >> Linda, In checking James Hanson's 'Point Blankets', he mentions that blankets of one to five points were sold to the Indians, six to twelves for settler's bedding. He also states that most North West Co. orders consisted of blankets from one to three points. As far as the size of a two-pointer, the Office Of Indian Trade (1809) specifies that a two point blanket be 43 X 53 inches. The North American Fur Co (1840) specified 42 X 56 inches. The Whitney records (1900) show 42 X 57. It appears that after WWII, the 1 1/2 point blanket was increased in size to 42 X 60, and the 'modern blanket' size chart does not show a two point blanket at all. Hope this is of some help, Barney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:13:10 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. In a message dated 7/15/01 10:47:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Hawkengun@aol.com writes: << Is there any way to stiffen the brim a little? >> Saturate with Sizing or Starch, shape and let dry. Starch has more 'hold' or stiffness than Sizing; both are available at the local market. Barney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:51:35 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket In a message dated 7/16/1 1:35:58 PM, tipis@mediaone.net writes: <> Very well covered in "A Toast to the Fur Trade" by the late Robert C. Wheeler, page 62. Two point blankets were 42" X 50". Two and a half point were very popular at 50" X 66". This is an excellent book for researchers of the fur trade. I really cherish my autographed copy. The author himself spent many years in research and chairing organizations dedicated to expanding information about the trade and the period. He was notably involved in underwater archaeology which is a boon, realizing so many period deposits of trade goods were a result of canoe tip-overs never recovered. Robert's son, Jon, is the driving force at Track of the Wolf - a good place to secure a copy. Sincerly, Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:04:28 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. In a message dated 7/16/1 4:13:56 PM, LivingInThePast@aol.com writes: << << Is there any way to stiffen the brim a little? >> >> Hatters use shelac greatly thinned with alcohol (add to the shelac - not the wearer). RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:08:25 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question....2 point blanket In a message dated 7/16/1 5:52:50 PM, SWzypher@aol.com writes: <<2 point. Was there one that size??>> Very well covered in "A Toast to the Fur Trade" by the late Robert C. Wheeler, page 62. Two point blankets were 42" X 50">> A Correction - Please Bad typing or bad eyes - I do both. Correct size per Mr. Wheeler's book: 42" X 58" Sorry for the error Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:27:10 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:04:28 EDT SWzypher@aol.com writes: > > Hatters use shelac greatly thinned with alcohol (add to the shelac - > not the > wearer). > RJames pard--- believe i prefer the other way medicinal of course??????? GBG and probably 86 proof in a black labeled bottel or fine crock jug -- Nuff said "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:33:12 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. In a message dated 7/16/1 7:46:15 PM, hawknest4@juno.com writes: <> The subject was "hats" and if your method tilts your hat the way you like it best . . . . . . . . . You'll be the only person I know tht consumes bug poop (shelac). RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:43:42 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) At 05:33 PM 7/16/01 -0400, you wrote: >You'll be the only person I know tht consumes bug poop (shelac). >RJames Dick, That's not quite accurate. Most folks on this list have eaten several pounds of shellac (bug poop) in their lives. Look at the ingredient list on shiny candy. If one of the ingredients is "Confectioner's Glaze" you are eating the genuine article. Real shellac, highly refined but real nonetheless; Junior Mints are the real thing. It's the whale puke women folk keep rubbing all over their bodies that causes me concern. What a nasty habit, and they nearly all do it; or want to. John... - ----------------------------------------- OK! So whose smart ideA was it to put the CAPSLOCK kEy rIGHT nExT TO tHE sHiFt kEy - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:51:02 -0500 From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) > That's not quite accurate. Most folks on this list have eaten > several pounds of shellac (bug poop) in their lives. > It's the whale puke women folk keep rubbing all over their bodies > that > causes me concern. What a nasty habit, and they nearly all do it; > or want to. > > John... Ok, John, I'll bite. What is this whale puke we wimmin are supposedly rubbing all over our bodies?? Is it PC? Can I use it in place of Bore Butter? Victoria - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:27:41 -0700 (PDT) From: hsteven-pepke@webtv.net (Steve Pepke) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) Hi Victoria, I think he's talking about ambergris, a component of some perfumes. Steve - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:24:38 -0600 From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. As for shaping the brim of the hat I suggest sleeping with the it on the ground. Mike Powell tells me that using it for a hand towel adds strength and charactor. Also trees, sweat, and dust help. The only other thing I would add is do not be afraid to let the brim bend up, see Millers works like the picture of Walker. This aint no cowboy hat. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:37:28 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. - --part1_d1.96cf873.28858b88_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn Now that's about the best advice I've heard so far. Make the hat lived in you might say. The only thing I might add is don't start out with a cheep hat. For most of them never had any body in them to begin with so they never will hold much of a shape. The only problem I've had with this method is just about the time they start feeling like home they start falling a part, of coarse it that a few years. My last hat was about 9 years old when I had to retire it do to rot. On the trail Crazy Cyot - --part1_d1.96cf873.28858b88_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn
Now that's about the best advice I've heard so far. Make the hat lived in you
might say. The only thing I might add is don't start out with a cheep hat.
For most of them never had any body in them to begin with so they never will
hold much of a shape.
The only problem I've had with this method is just about the time they start
feeling like home they start falling a part, of coarse it that a few years.
My last hat was about 9 years old when I had to retire it do to rot.
On the trail
Crazy Cyot - --part1_d1.96cf873.28858b88_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:52:35 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) In a message dated 7/16/1 10:46:11 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: <> John - you have no idea how you have lifted my spirits today. Grazzi Dick - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:15:06 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) Ambergris A scent fixative in perfume, the more expensive the perfume the more certain one of the most expensive substances in the world is included. Technically it may not be puke, originating in the intestine as it does. As it is found floating as waste in the ocean it is not prohibited for collection or possession. John... At 10:51 PM 7/16/01 -0500, you wrote: > > That's not quite accurate. Most folks on this list have eaten > > several pounds of shellac (bug poop) in their lives. > > > It's the whale puke women folk keep rubbing all over their bodies > > that > > causes me concern. What a nasty habit, and they nearly all do it; > > or want to. > > > > John... > > Ok, John, I'll bite. What is this whale puke we > wimmin are supposedly rubbing all over our bodies?? > Is it PC? Can I use it in place of Bore Butter? > > Victoria __________________________________________________________ "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -Joseph Stalin - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:09:22 -0700 From: "pat broehl" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muleskinners/shoes Greetings to the list and to Glenn, Possibly along this line, I've been keeping an eye peeled for any mention of applying iron shoes to the mules and or horses that were used. I have not as yet caught up with any such discussion. Does any one have an interest or input toward this? Thank you in advance, Itsaquain >From: "Glenn Darilek" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: MtMan-List: Muleskinners >Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:55:01 -0500 > >The word 'Muleskinner' is probably not period correct. According to >Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, the words 'mule skinner' were >not >used until 1870. The word 'muleteer' was used as far back as 1538. > >Glenn Darilek >Iron Burner > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 02:12:03 From: "Chance Tiffie" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muleskinners/shoes
With a little time devoted to reading thru the invoices and such on Dean's site, you'll find references to shoes, nails, and shoeing tools being carried west with fur brigades. There is also record of payments made to blacksmiths in the western most settlements for such work.
Cliff

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- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:41:47 -0500 From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up. (OT) On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:27:41 -0700 (PDT) hsteven-pepke@webtv.net (Steve Pepke) writes: > Hi Victoria, > I think he's talking about ambergris, a component of some perfumes. > Steve > Hi Steve, I'm not surprised you know about this whale puke. Thank goodness its not an ingredient in old fashioned rose oil! Victoria > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #830 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.