From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #853 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, September 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 853 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing -       MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights -       Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under -       Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing -       MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #852 -       Re: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights -       Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: smooth bores with rear sights -       MtMan-List: Count your blessings... -       MtMan-List: Leather Clothing -       MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag? -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under -       Re: MtMan-List: Chouteau Days -       Re: MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag? -       Re: MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:22:01 -0700 From: "rtlahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing "In that time I've shot more then enough deer to make a shirt and pants. I want to make them as period correct as I can for the early 1800. The time of the rendezvous." Richard, I presume you have had those hides commercially tanned? And they are of a golden color? Firstly, as has been offered by others, nothing beats brain tan for garment leather appropriate to the 1800's Rocky Mt. Fur Trade era. But that is probably news that's too late for you. There are a few things you should keep in mind about the leather you do have. Since it is of the color that tanneries normally use, it is not the right color to be historically correct. Not that you can't use it but you did want to know. Secondly, with the "scarf skin" (where the hair comes out) still on the hide, it will stretch, be hot, be cold, be less than it could be. Getting it wet and stretching it before you make clothing out of it will help but not that much. Your best bet is to take the scarf skin off. It is a simple process. Get the hide wet, stretch it out on a very flat smooth sheet of plywood and let it dry. Use an oscillating/vibrating hand sander with a sheet rock sanding pad installed, carefully rough up the scarf skin side. You can take it completely off if your careful but it isn't necessary. Just rough it up good. You can also experiment with Rit Dye Remover on some scrap to see if you can take the color out. The hide should be a very faint tan somewhere between white and grayish tan. You can even smoke it after you get the original color out and make it more like brain tan. If you do not decide to do this, at lest use the leather rough side out. It will look a lot better. Whether you go this far or not, the next question is clothing patterns. Most clothing you see at Rendezvous today is not correct for the 1800's. Particularly the leather clothing. You might make a pair of tight legged drop front pants and perhaps a somewhat fitted coat from your hides but most original sketches of that era show men wearing cloth shirts. A small amount of very fine fringe down side seams is not out of the question but do not go overboard on length and stay away from gaudy decorations in the Indian mode. Just not appropriate for a white man in the fur business, contrary to what your rendezvous friends might say or believe. Of course if you want to do it, your free to do so. Just won't be right for the period. If you want visuals, get ahold of some Miller Sketches. He was a contemporary artist that drew and later painted the scenes from the original Rendesvous. His sketches show better detail without later artistic license. In any case, it will be worth the effort to take that scarf skin off. The leather will be soft and warm and will function almost as well as brain tan which is like velvet when done right. "I got the impression that just as its personal preference on how you cut and sew your shirt it was personal preference on what side you wanted out too." It is personal preference in modern buckskinning. It was not personal preference in the 1800's. Don't get the two mixed up. Most of what you saw was modern ideas somewhat off the mark from what they really wore. I'm sure you saw very few correct outfits. Though I could be wrong. In any case it's your leather, do as you will. And best of luck. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:33:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Fisher Subject: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights > A friend has a very nice repro NW trade musket that has a fine groove >engraved at the breech end of the barrel. This groove is about 8 inches long >and serves as a rear sight. It does not raise above the plane of the barrel. I noted the rear site on an orignal trade gun in the San Bernardino County Musuem was made on the top flat by upsetting the metal with a cold chisel and filing a "V" in it. I have no idea if this was done at the time of manufacture or by the owner at a later date. Does anyone know if this was a "factory" method of providing a rear sight? Dennis Fisher #612 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:49:10 -0400 From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing Hi Richard, The advise that Capt. L. gave you is right on target. I asked ththe same type question a while back. The good Captain gave me the same advise he just gave you. I followed the directions as listed and turned out some great looking skins that have fooled several people into thinking it was real braintan. The only thing I can add is to stress that you use a good, heavy (at least 1/2"), smooth piece of plywood. Any knot holes or flexing in the plywood can cause a thin spot real quick. Like braintan, it takes a little effort but it is well worth it. Good luck and see ya round the fire. YMOS Tim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 04:39:40 +0000 From: "darlene secondine" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing He' Richard, I found something else that may be of benefit to you.In Book of Buckskinning VII there is a really good and thoroughly documented article by Allen Chronister & Clay Landry entitled,"Clothing of the Rocky Mountain Trapper, 1820-1840". They have included Alfred Jacob Miller illustrations and an Appendix of Works Cited at the end of the article in case you want to read the narratives for yourself. Your friend, Don in the Ohio Country >From: Richard Bacon >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text-digest >Subject: MtMan-List: leather clothing >Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 20:41:35 -0500 > >Hi, to all you regulars who have used this sight for a long time. I’m >new to the sight and I look forward to the knowledge that you are >willing to share. My name is Dick Bacon and I live in Wisconsin. I have >a question on buckskin clothing. For the past 20 years I’ve hunted deer >with a T.C. 50-cal. Hawkens rifle that I built myself. (From a kit). In >that time I’ve shot more then enough deer to make a shirt and pants. I >want to make them as period correct as I can for the early 1800. The >time of the rendezvous. I have a friend who is very much into rendezvous >and participates in them all the time, he said that when I make them, be >sure that the rough side of the hide is the outside. This past June I >went to a big rendezvous at Prairie du Chien WI. Just to look at and >study the leathers of others. I saw some made with the rough side out, >some with the smooth side out, and on some I couldn’t tell. I talked to >venders and never really got a straight answer. I got the impression >that just as its personal preference on how you cut and sew your shirt >it was personal preference on what side you wanted out too. I like the >rough side out myself, but is one way more period correct then the >other? That is the question I need an answer to at this time. I’m sure >as I start to cut and sew I’ll have more. Thanks > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 13:23:14 EDT From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under - --part1_f7.ef1f584.28c7b982_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the camp I have had one response for AMM Brothers that have gone under. Your help would be greatly appreciated to help Ole up date the records and have the remember at National nest year. Thanks Mark "Roadkill" - --part1_f7.ef1f584.28c7b982_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the camp   
I have had one response for AMM Brothers that have gone under. Your help
would be greatly appreciated to help Ole up date the records and have the
remember at National nest year.
Thanks Mark "Roadkill" - --part1_f7.ef1f584.28c7b982_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 12:43:02 -0600 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing Hallo and welcome to the list, If you had your hides commerically tanned, sell 'em and buy brain tan. If you haven't tanned them yet, brain tan them. The work is well worth it! It's easier and cheaper to do it right the first time! Good luck down your path of buckskinning. Don't trip over all the junk folks ahead of you have discarded on theirs. You'll see my chrome tanned pants along the way......... Allen At 08:41 PM 09/04/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, to all you regulars who have used this sight for a long time. I'm >new to the sight and I look forward to the knowledge that you are >willing to share. My name is Dick Bacon and I live in Wisconsin. I have >a question on buckskin clothing. For the past 20 years I've hunted deer >with a T.C. 50-cal. Hawkens rifle that I built myself. (From a kit). In >that time I've shot more then enough deer to make a shirt and pants. I >want to make them as period correct as I can for the early 1800. The >time of the rendezvous. I have a friend who is very much into rendezvous >and participates in them all the time, he said that when I make them, be >sure that the rough side of the hide is the outside. This past June I >went to a big rendezvous at Prairie du Chien WI. Just to look at and >study the leathers of others. I saw some made with the rough side out, >some with the smooth side out, and on some I couldn't tell. I talked to >venders and never really got a straight answer. I got the impression >that just as its personal preference on how you cut and sew your shirt >it was personal preference on what side you wanted out too. I like the >rough side out myself, but is one way more period correct then the >other? That is the question I need an answer to at this time. I'm sure >as I start to cut and sew I'll have more. Thanks > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:24:03 -0700 From: "rtlahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing More excellent advice! Capt. Lahti' - ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Hall To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing > Hallo and welcome to the list, > > If you had your hides commerically tanned, sell 'em and buy brain tan. If > you haven't tanned them yet, brain tan them. The work is well worth it! > > It's easier and cheaper to do it right the first time! > > Good luck down your path of buckskinning. Don't trip over all the junk > folks ahead of you have discarded on theirs. You'll see my chrome tanned > pants along the way......... > > Allen > > > > At 08:41 PM 09/04/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, to all you regulars who have used this sight for a long time. I'm > >new to the sight and I look forward to the knowledge that you are > >willing to share. My name is Dick Bacon and I live in Wisconsin. I have > >a question on buckskin clothing. For the past 20 years I've hunted deer > >with a T.C. 50-cal. Hawkens rifle that I built myself. (From a kit). In > >that time I've shot more then enough deer to make a shirt and pants. I > >want to make them as period correct as I can for the early 1800. The > >time of the rendezvous. I have a friend who is very much into rendezvous > >and participates in them all the time, he said that when I make them, be > >sure that the rough side of the hide is the outside. This past June I > >went to a big rendezvous at Prairie du Chien WI. Just to look at and > >study the leathers of others. I saw some made with the rough side out, > >some with the smooth side out, and on some I couldn't tell. I talked to > >venders and never really got a straight answer. I got the impression > >that just as its personal preference on how you cut and sew your shirt > >it was personal preference on what side you wanted out too. I like the > >rough side out myself, but is one way more period correct then the > >other? That is the question I need an answer to at this time. I'm sure > >as I start to cut and sew I'll have more. Thanks > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 17:34:49 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing > More excellent advice! If you decide to use your comercial tanned hides, and you sew them slick side in, you will need several accomplices to help you peel them off, especially if you are the least bit sweaty. Just another tidbit from the voice of experiences past. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 17:03:16 -0500 From: "Dave and Kristi Landis" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #852 unsubscribe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 22:25:50 +0000 From: "darlene secondine" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights Howdy Dennis, The rear sight that you describe was a period way of putting a rear sight in a gun barrel. You see this same treatment on different styles of smooth bore guns in various collections including the MFT. But, this was not original to the guns at manufacture. The only English trade gun that had rear sights installed at manufacture was the so called Type G. And not all of them were fitted out with rear sights. One thing that really confuses the issue is several of the specimens are period re-stocks with mixed parts and all of a sudden somebody calls it a new type of trade gun. They are Period pieces but not original to the same gun. A lot of these period re-stocks show up in studies about trade guns and there is a new myth born. It is perfectly fine to have a rear sight on a trade gun and still be historically correct, because evidently some folks did have them installed after purchase. I hope this helps, Don Secondine in the Ohio Country >From: Dennis Fisher >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: smoothbore rear sights >Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:33:30 -0700 (PDT) > > > A friend has a very nice repro NW trade musket >that has a fine groove > >engraved at the breech end of the barrel. This groove >is about 8 inches long > >and serves as a rear sight. It does not raise above >the plane of the barrel. > >I noted the rear site on an orignal trade gun in the >San Bernardino County Musuem was made on the top flat >by upsetting the metal with a cold chisel and filing a >"V" in it. I have no idea if this was done at the >time of manufacture or by the owner at a later date. >Does anyone know if this was a "factory" method of >providing a rear sight? > >Dennis Fisher >#612 > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger >http://im.yahoo.com > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 00:12:24 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather clothing In a message dated 9/4/01 10:44:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LivingInThePast@aol.com writes: << MO (in my opinion) they do fine work, some of which I wear and can attest too, and they are both VERY helpful. I don't know if you have already tanned your skins yet, but if you can braintan them, DO IT! One major difference is that brained skins breathe, almost like cotton, whereas commercially tanned skins do not. >> This is true what is said about the softness and desirability of braintan deer skins. If you are a skilled person at working with your hands and can devote the time to the hide, do so. I found that if I worked and equivalent amount of overtime that I spent tanning the hides I could buy a finished braintan product! If you do go this route, be ready to sweat and ache and be frustrated!!!! Those hides are like children...some are easy to work with and some you just want to throw away!!!! I have done it once and I am comfortable with my ability. When the stuff I made wears out then I will replace it with bought braintan. If some AMM members object, please note I have shown proficiency (not a preference) for that skill. Also, Matt Richards has a book "Deerskins to Buckskins" which is invaluable and inexpensive. If you go to the braintan.com site he will get directly back to you if you give him enough time. Happy trekking! - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 21:32:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smooth bores with rear sights Wanted to give some information on this topic since I own an origional 3rd model Brown Bess that was made in either 1792 or 1793 and is fully shootable. It doesn't have a rear sight a rear sight but it does have a groove cut at the top part of the back of the barrel that I use to sight with the bayonette lug. It actually works quite well. When I bought the musket it had the groove cut in it and I would presume it had been there for quite a long time. Best Regards, Jerry Zaslow #1488 ________________________________________________________________________________ At 10:11 PM 09/03/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Just back , and saw the posting about smoothe bores with rear sights, this >has been a personal interest of mine. Check out "Colonial Frontier Guns" by >T.M. Hamilton: pps 27 and 28 show 17Th century Dutch smooth bore trade guns >with rear sights, one from a grave dated 1675-1687, so not added later than >that. pps30 and 33 shows French Fusils type "c" with their "factory" winged >rear sights. p 72 French Type "G" with one bbl dove tailed for a rear sight >and one bbl with rear sight in place. p. 82 shows a "BESS" with a rear sight >groove on the Tang, possibly added at a later date. Personally I like an >inconspicuous rear sight, I know they were there, but I doubt that they >were as common as Chevy's. As to shoot rules, everone has a right to run >their shoot the way they want, and I allow rear sights on smooth bores to >compete with the rest. The guy that shoots alot, sight or nosight, and >really "knows" his smooth bore is going win, regardless. My two cents >worth. YMHOS etc.! Dave Albaugh > >AUX ALIMENTS DE PAYS > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 03:21:03 EDT From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Count your blessings... Hello the Camp! I wanted to take a moment of your time and ask you all to pray for a special family here in Boise. A young man named John Noll was laid to rest today, he was 29. John was killed last Thursday in what I have been told is a "Gun accident." No other details have been made available, to me anyway. I cannot say that John and I were friends because we had only just met a few short months ago, but a friendship was developing. John and his wife and daughters were deeply involved in the 4H group that my daughters joined less than a year ago. He had two daughters of his own, ages 10 & 6 , and an 11 yr. old daughter of his wife's previous marriage. John loved to hunt and go camping, but most of all he loved his, his kids and his dogs. In tribute to John & Karey, his funeral service was attended by 200+ people (by my guess). The reason I'm telling you all this, I guess, is simply another reminder that life is precious, and all to short. Hug your kids and your spouse and when you get up each morning, thank God for another day with them. Thank you all for your time Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith Boise, Id - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:11:27 -0600 From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Leather Clothing Welcome Richard: Before you start cutting the leather, there are other considerations than which side to face out. If it is already comercial tanned think about working them so they are not so obviously orange etc. And just as importantly check into the patern you are going to use. Both narrow drop front and fly fronts appear in Millers work, but the fly fronts do not look like those antler buttoned contraptions seen at modern rondezvous. Just my advice, don't start cutting until you have done your research. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:21:22 -0600 From: "Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag? c.Kent wrote: Bear in mind that a shooting pouch and a possibles pouch were quite often different things that served different functions. The shooting pouch was pretty much devoted to shooting needs. The possibles pouch was generally used for other "neccessities" and some "foofraw". Of course, then as now, there had to be messy or disorganized folk that just stuck stuff where it was handy...thus just had "pouch". The explanation above is already known to me, but it does not change the fact that the RMFT did not appear to have followed your advice. Maybe an Easterner did things this way, I dunno but I do not see or read about multiple pouches out West. Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 07:16:05 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3082605366_90234_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mark, This is a list of those members I have found in the Data-Base, it is probably incomplete so if there are names that anyone knows please pass them on. Ole Lee Robertson # 102 Jim Rowley # 721 Jim Giles # 228 Robert L. Takace # 677 James Mulvaney # 188 John L. Elliott # 469 Ronald Hancock # 583 Pat D. Tearney # 163 Mathew J. Malloy # 1015 Robert Stigler # 1620 Joe Lynde # 18 Gray beard Regionald Laubin # 9 Gray beard Dev Rhoades # 877 David L. Sample # 1294 George W. Johnston #5 Gray beard Charles E. Hanson # 174 - ---------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under Date: Wed, Sep 5, 2001, 10:23 AM Hello the camp I have had one response for AMM Brothers that have gone under. Your help would be greatly appreciated to help Ole up date the records and have the remember at National nest year. Thanks Mark "Roadkill" - --MS_Mac_OE_3082605366_90234_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under Mark,
This is a list of those members I have found in the Data-Base, it is probab= ly incomplete so if there are names that anyone knows please pass them on. Ole
Lee Robertson # 102
Jim Rowley # 721
Jim Giles # 228
Robert L. Takace # 677
James Mulvaney # 188
John L. Elliott # 469
Ronald Hancock # 583
Pat D. Tearney # 163
Mathew J. Malloy # 1015
Robert Stigler # 1620
Joe Lynde # 18 Gray beard
Regionald Laubin # 9 Gray beard
Dev Rhoades # 877
David L. Sample # 1294
George W. Johnston #5 Gray beard
Charles E. Hanson # 174
- ----------
From: MarkLoader@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under
Date: Wed, Sep 5, 2001, 10:23 AM


Hello the camp   
 I have had one response for AMM Brothers that have gone under. Your h= elp
would be greatly appreciated to help Ole up date the records and have the <= BR> remember at National nest year.
Thanks Mark "Roadkill"
- --MS_Mac_OE_3082605366_90234_MIME_Part-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:14:13 EDT From: Bublitz@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under - --part1_47.108e16b7.28c8deb5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget Walt McCurdy... hardtack - --part1_47.108e16b7.28c8deb5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget Walt McCurdy... hardtack - --part1_47.108e16b7.28c8deb5_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:59:02 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under Ole Slim Pickins should be on this list as well. I know he paid for three years membership. Once on sign-up and a renewal for two years. Dick James P.S. Who is this Ole at the top of the deceased list??? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:19:07 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chouteau Days - --part1_134.1416722.28c8edeb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You ought to come to Dripping Springs Rendezvous, while your here. Last yea= r=20 it paid out over $100 for first place in the competitions. My wife and I pu= t=20 it on at the request of our city. You don't even see a telephone pole from=20 the site. Our site is also where the 2001 Southwestern Rendezvous will be.=20= =20 Come and see us Nov 8 - 11=20 Joe Dripping Springs Rendezvous 2001. Nov 8-11, 2001 @ Dripping Springs State=20 Park, Okmulgee, OK 74447 =A0=A0 Just 13 mile east of Okmulgee follow Hwy 56 to Okmulgee Lake State Park and follow the sign to Dripping=20 Springs State Park and follow the signs. * =A0Pre 1840 rules apply to all - trade goods included * =A0No vehicles in camp - 1 hour unload time * =A0Firewood & water available on site or nearby * =A0Period dress required for primitive camp and traders row * =A0Modern camping with water and electric hookup nearby * =A0Hot showers nearby * =A0Camp fee $10.00. =A0Traders fee $35.00 =A0=A0Modern camp fee as set by=20= the State=20 Park * =A0Pre-register by October 10 th for $5.00 Camp fee or $30.00 Trader fee * =A0Dutch oven cook off & pot luck dinner Saturday evening * =A0Competition fee $5.00 * =A0No walk in competitors * =A0Round robin on Friday night * =A0Mountain man walk competitions start on Friday * =A0Competitions also in fire starting, archery, hawk & knife throwing * =A0Jackpot competitions on Sunday Please plan on staying until 3:00 PM Sunday - --part1_134.1416722.28c8edeb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You ought to come to Drip= ping Springs Rendezvous, while your here.  Last year=20
it paid out over $100 for first place in the competitions.  My wife= and I put=20
it on at the request of our city.  You don't even see a telephone p= ole from=20
the site.  Our site is also where the 2001 Southwestern Rendezvous=20= will be.  
Come and see us Nov 8 - 11=20

            = ;            &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;    Joe


Dripping Springs Rendezvous 2001. Nov 8-11, 2001 @ Dripping Springs Stat= e=20
Park, Okmulgee, OK 74447 =A0=A0
Just 13 mile east of Okmulgee
follow Hwy 56 to Okmulgee Lake State Park and follow the sign to Drippin= g=20
Springs State Park and follow the signs.

* =A0Pre 1840 rules apply to all - trade goods included
* =A0No vehicles in camp - 1 hour unload time
* =A0Firewood & water available on site or nearby
* =A0Period dress required for primitive camp and traders row
* =A0Modern camping with water and electric hookup nearby
* =A0Hot showers nearby
* =A0Camp fee $10.00. =A0Traders fee $35.00 =A0=A0Modern camp fee as set= by the State=20
Park
* =A0Pre-register by October 10 th for $5.00 Camp fee or $30.00 Trader f= ee
* =A0Dutch oven cook off & pot luck dinner Saturday evening
* =A0Competition fee $5.00
* =A0No walk in competitors
* =A0Round robin on Friday night
* =A0Mountain man walk competitions start on Friday
* =A0Competitions also in fire starting, archery, hawk & knife throw= ing
* =A0Jackpot competitions on Sunday

Please plan on staying until 3:00 PM Sunday


- --part1_134.1416722.28c8edeb_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:34:57 -0600 From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag? From this statement I can only assume that by not using multiple pouches a trapper would also carry his traps, usually six to eight in his shooting/possibles bag. When viewing the AJ Miller paintings and drawings, the romanticized trapper is not often shown at work, but more often relaxing as if attending a social gathering. He shows them basically with one small pouch while lollygaging around camp but if you study the art work closely of the trappers at work I believe you may come to another conclusion. Since Miller and Bodmer were the only artists I know of to actually attend a rendezvous their work is about the only place you could see whether one or more pouches were worn. Both Miller and Bodmer used considerable poetic license in their works, perhaps like the incorrect number of poles in their tipi renderings, the possibles bag was just simply not shown. I admit I don't have positive proof, but the French, English, Longhunters and even the Indians were known to use separate bags for possibles and shooting supplies, I find it hard to believe that these practices would be lost to our American fur hunters. I wish respectfully to disagree with your research and statements. C. Webb . > the > fact that the RMFT did not appear to have followed your advice. > Maybe > an Easterner did things this way, I dunno but I do not see or read > about > multiple pouches out West. > > Wynn Ormond - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:04:13 +0000 From: "darlene secondine" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag? Whoa! Ol' Hoss, Who do you think the majority of mountain men were from 1803 - 1839? EASTERNERS!!!! Don from the Ohio Country >From: "Gretchen Ormond" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: Hist mail >Subject: MtMan-List: what exactly do "YOU" carry in your possibles bag? >Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:21:22 -0600 > >c.Kent wrote: > >Bear in mind that a shooting pouch and a possibles pouch were quite >often >different things that served different functions. The shooting pouch >was >pretty much devoted to shooting needs. The possibles pouch was >generally >used for other "neccessities" and some "foofraw". Of course, then as >now, >there had to be messy or disorganized folk that just stuck stuff where >it was >handy...thus just had "pouch". > >The explanation above is already known to me, but it does not change the >fact that the RMFT did not appear to have followed your advice. Maybe >an Easterner did things this way, I dunno but I do not see or read about >multiple pouches out West. > >Wynn Ormond > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #853 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.