From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #948 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, February 7 2002 Volume 01 : Number 948 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       MtMan-List: Northwest Journal--new & improved! -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch -       MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       MtMan-List: Trade Gun for Sale -       MtMan-List: Laura Jean -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       MtMan-List: Message Board -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       MtMan-List: WAS Beaver catch -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:27:24 -0500 From: tom roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch David, I'm no expert, but I would append your question by asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE? Logic being that the farther east and south, the earlier the demise. There's folks (not many) right now still trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825. After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources was likely foreign to those trappers. Tom David Usner wrote: > > I was wondering about some facts. > > When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840. > > How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week? > > How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of > beaver was falling off. > > David > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:21:55 -0800 From: JW Stephens Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch The Snake River country was trapped out fairly early, as a matter of policy. After the Convention of 1818, when Great Britain and the United States agreed to jointly occupy Oregon, Alexander Ross as the point man for the Hudson's Bay Company recognized the wave of the future when Jedediah Smith's party of six trappers (who had taken some 900 plews on the Green, Bear and Blackfoot rivers between the breakup of rendezvous and "early autumn") showed up at his door. After showing Smith's party courtesy for having escorted Pierre Tevanitagon and a small band of Iroquois trappers who had been plundered by the Shoshones, back to Flathead Post, Ross found out that Smith was not keen on leaving. On the fringes of Blackfoot country, at the onset of winter, Smith and his party stayed with Ross' brigade. When Ross put his head together with HBC Governor George Simpson and Chief Factor John McLoughlin, the plan that was formed to blunt the intrusion of further Americans into this rich HBC skin farm was to create a "beaver desert" south and east of the Columbia River. This was started about November of '24 by replacing Alexander Ross with Peter Skene Ogden. For the winter of '24-'25, Ogden headed out to trap out the Snake River country with a party of about sixty trappers, and Jed Smith et. al. in tow. So you could say that the demise was started in the north and west. B'st'rd tom roberts wrote: > > David, > > I'm no expert, but I would append your question by > asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE? > Logic being that the farther east and south, the > earlier the demise. There's folks (not many) right now still > trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to > pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825. > After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially > considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources > was likely foreign to those trappers. > > Tom > > David Usner wrote: > > > > I was wondering about some facts. > > > > When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840. > > > > How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week? > > > > How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of > > beaver was falling off. > > > > David > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:27:32 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch In a message dated 2/5/02 8:16:00 PM, usnerd@bigplanet.com writes: <> The supply was petering out by the mid 1830s. Osborn Russell in his journal writes from a spot north of Great Salt Lake in the late 1830s that the buffalo are gone (from there) and the beaver are all gone. It is time for the white man to get out of this country. A trapper might carry 5-6 - sometimes 8 traps. He had to not only set and recover them but also skin and tend them. Beaver do NOT skin as easily as a bunny. Limited to the number of traps and the fact he did not always fill out and some days got zero - you can do your own cost accounting. Remembering that beaver trapping was done in the fall and spring only - trappers roamed the summer to and from rendezvous, and they holed up in w inter, seeking out a spot with game, shelter (some constructed cabins and such), wood and - VERY important - feed for their animals. Often they bunched up with other trappers at this time - frequently friendly Indians were part of the camp. American Fur kept harvesting past 1850 as did Hudson's Bay. They did a lot of business trading with the Indians (as they did from the beginning) rather than the trapper system of a couple of decades earlier. The bottom had fallen out of the beaver market by 1840, any way because of the new fashion of silk hats. Much of the fur gathered by (Astor's) American Fur company were hides of a dozen varieties other than beaver - same with HBCo.. 1860s - enterprising young men were going after buffalo hides. This lasted for nearly a quarter of a century. The harvest went mostly for lap robes to begin, but ironically many of the bufalo hides were tanned into leather that was then made into belts that transfered water power to the overhead shafts and then to the machines in the early part of the age of the industrial revolution. An example would be Russell's knife factory on the Green River of Mass.. Hope this helps Sincerly Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:04:07 -0500 From: David Usner Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch I'm most interested in trapping in Colorado and surrounding area. Is it possible to calculate the approx catch per week or month during 1924-1940. Would it be safe to say that a single trapper could trap 20 beaver a month? 40 beaver a month? Could two or three trappers catch 100 beaver a month? Was the demise a result of premeditated calculation on the part of HBC or was it a result of the rise in demand and the rise in the number of men willing and able to venture into the territory. I know that Kit Carson would leave his home in Taos and trap up north and west of there. I think he trapped the Snake River as well. He must have gotten into the trade just at the beginning of the end. Things seemed to be changing quickly in the part of the country. Dave - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of JW Stephens Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:22 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch The Snake River country was trapped out fairly early, as a matter of policy. After the Convention of 1818, when Great Britain and the United States agreed to jointly occupy Oregon, Alexander Ross as the point man for the Hudson's Bay Company recognized the wave of the future when Jedediah Smith's party of six trappers (who had taken some 900 plews on the Green, Bear and Blackfoot rivers between the breakup of rendezvous and "early autumn") showed up at his door. After showing Smith's party courtesy for having escorted Pierre Tevanitagon and a small band of Iroquois trappers who had been plundered by the Shoshones, back to Flathead Post, Ross found out that Smith was not keen on leaving. On the fringes of Blackfoot country, at the onset of winter, Smith and his party stayed with Ross' brigade. When Ross put his head together with HBC Governor George Simpson and Chief Factor John McLoughlin, the plan that was formed to blunt the intrusion of further Americans into this rich HBC skin farm was to create a "beaver desert" south and east of the Columbia River. This was started about November of '24 by replacing Alexander Ross with Peter Skene Ogden. For the winter of '24-'25, Ogden headed out to trap out the Snake River country with a party of about sixty trappers, and Jed Smith et. al. in tow. So you could say that the demise was started in the north and west. B'st'rd tom roberts wrote: > > David, > > I'm no expert, but I would append your question by > asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE? > Logic being that the farther east and south, the > earlier the demise. There's folks (not many) right now still > trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to > pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825. > After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially > considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources > was likely foreign to those trappers. > > Tom > > David Usner wrote: > > > > I was wondering about some facts. > > > > When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840. > > > > How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week? > > > > How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of > > beaver was falling off. > > > > David > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:14:20 -0500 From: David Usner Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch Richard, That's great information. Thanks. You guys are painting an interesting picture. I would thinking that a single trapper could set 6 traps a day and maybe come up with an average of 3 beaver a day. That would mean the yield during the spring and fall could be as much as 90 pelts a month from a single trapper. Does that sound possible? Dave - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of SWzypher@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:28 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch In a message dated 2/5/02 8:16:00 PM, usnerd@bigplanet.com writes: <> The supply was petering out by the mid 1830s. Osborn Russell in his journal writes from a spot north of Great Salt Lake in the late 1830s that the buffalo are gone (from there) and the beaver are all gone. It is time for the white man to get out of this country. A trapper might carry 5-6 - sometimes 8 traps. He had to not only set and recover them but also skin and tend them. Beaver do NOT skin as easily as a bunny. Limited to the number of traps and the fact he did not always fill out and some days got zero - you can do your own cost accounting. Remembering that beaver trapping was done in the fall and spring only - trappers roamed the summer to and from rendezvous, and they holed up in w inter, seeking out a spot with game, shelter (some constructed cabins and such), wood and - VERY important - feed for their animals. Often they bunched up with other trappers at this time - frequently friendly Indians were part of the camp. American Fur kept harvesting past 1850 as did Hudson's Bay. They did a lot of business trading with the Indians (as they did from the beginning) rather than the trapper system of a couple of decades earlier. The bottom had fallen out of the beaver market by 1840, any way because of the new fashion of silk hats. Much of the fur gathered by (Astor's) American Fur company were hides of a dozen varieties other than beaver - same with HBCo.. 1860s - enterprising young men were going after buffalo hides. This lasted for nearly a quarter of a century. The harvest went mostly for lap robes to begin, but ironically many of the bufalo hides were tanned into leather that was then made into belts that transfered water power to the overhead shafts and then to the machines in the early part of the age of the industrial revolution. An example would be Russell's knife factory on the Green River of Mass.. Hope this helps Sincerly Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:25:16 -0700 From: "Angela Gottfred" Subject: MtMan-List: Northwest Journal--new & improved! We've just concluded extensive renovations to the Northwest Journal website www.northwestjournal.ca, adding 42 (yes, forty-two) articles about the Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821. Most of these articles were originally published in the paper version of Northwest Journal between 1992 and 1998, however new articles are being added. We are also launching a new mailing list, h-voyageur, focusing on the fur trade of the voyageur era (c. 1770-1830). To subscribe to the new list, go to www.groups.yahoo.com/group/h-voyageur/join and follow the instructions. Or you can join by sending a blank e-mail to h-voyageur-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. (We're just beginning a chapter-by-chapter discussion of the history behind the novel Broken Blade, by William Durbin.) Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred Editor, Northwest Journal (online edition) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:26:14 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch any of you guys know haw many beaver pelts will go into a bundle of pelts---that was the way the beaver skins was transported and packed out---put in a press and bundeled---in a lot of references there say that a average season would give you from 10 to 20 bundels---dont know if that is each man or for the party but if you estimate how many pelts are in a bundel you will get an idea of how many they cought---6 traps if you ran them twice a day will get you a lot more beaver than you realize---in a 30 plus day period---a single dam or colony can easily have 50 plus beavers in it and the beaver have 3 to 5 kits a year so it gets overstocked quite easily in a few years look at the numbers---might be suprizeing kina like a penny a day and double it ever day for 30 days--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of the "Old Grizz (C) product line & "the Arkansas Underhammers" 854 Glenfield Dr Palm Harbor, Florida 34684 Phone: 1-727-771-1815 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com web site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:15:27 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch dick--- I beaver and muskrat trapping back in the mid 50's and i trapped using about 50 plus traps only made 5 or 10 beaver sets around 4 fairly large lakes and the streams that fed them---I ran my traps in the morning and the afternoon and a good productive set usually had something in it in the morning and the afternoon---I used drownding sets in a lot of cases and in one big beaver colony/lake I only had 5 traps set and in the 30 days of trapping season I got over 60 beaver out of that one area dont believe i put a dint in the beavers there---in about the 70's they the state trapper tried poison and that killed most of them off---as long as the sets had castorium or bait on them i seldom did not have a beaver or a muskrat in them---and there was only 5 sets on that area---I ran a lot of mink traps and fox traps also those were not as productive as the water sets in the area i lived---I have pictures of my catch that year and it wasnt too bad---got over 100 mink---60 plus foxes plus the beaver and the muskrat---had over 350 muskrat---i spent a lot of time skinning and streaching---had a friend with a hog farm nearby and he took all the carcuses for the hogs that relly helped---that one year was probably my most productive year---but i made more money trapping preditors the next few years but had to buy different and bigger trapps for that---the beaver traps worked well on bobcat and ky-dogs---which are crosses--- there was a $25 bounty on dogs and bobcat at that time paid by the state--only ran the preditor traps once a day and it was a hell of a lot of walking and travel involved---they still tell stories of me having 15 to 20 preditors hanging on the fence waiting for the state rep to mark and pay the bounty he came to the house about once a week--- the carcus had to be whole to collect and not skinned---I skinned them after i collected from him YMHOS "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of the "Old Grizz (C) product line & "the Arkansas Underhammers" 854 Glenfield Dr Palm Harbor, Florida 34684 Phone: 1-727-771-1815 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com web site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:45:02 EST From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch Great story Hawk,loved reading it I almost fell out my chair laughing so hard then you talked about the fance. Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:14:27 -0800 From: "SUE RAVEN" Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! Gentleman(and those with beaver fever, Called my brother Eric last night to clue me in on beaver trapping. Wel, I herd him say tha breedin seesun iz near, and dose castor critters wood be peeping thar head bove tha ice soon, Ha, Ha! I mean I knew mountain men had their mind on beaver most of the time. So here goes Eric's questions and comments. First, he said one year he caught 17 beaver and 2 non-target animals(racoons) in 3 days. He even pointed out to me he used a set that an Indian trapper had taught him; that he beleives goes back to the French . The Indian having the lineage of the French, he figured it was an old trapping technique. Anyway, Eric went on about this website that some 'rendezvouer' evidently put into being. The document pointed out the weight of the trap drowned the beaver, he,he,he, ha, ha. Now, Eric says that somebody really pulled a fast one on that novice/tenderfoot. He said when he was learning, he had an old castor drag concrete blocks and tractor parts back to the bank and wring out/pull out of the jaws. Eric said these weights on his drown wire were 25-30 lbs in his infancy trapping days. Of course, Eric learned to use the heaviest masonry blocks or sandbags full of dirt, rocks, and sand; when using the drown wire. He caught a 83 pounder one year; and claims there are 100 lb. chiseltooths out there in colonies beyond the roads. Eric said if the weight of the trap drowned an adult(momma or dad), it had to be at least 45 lbs. Imagine one mule weighted down by only 3-4 heavy traps! He went on to say spring trapping was the easiest, as if they are not trapwise he could sometimes trap the entire colony out in 2-3 days. After 3 days, he said if you caught any, you seldom caught another unless in the blind, in their runs. Now, Eric would like to know how many of you have honestly caught beaver using TANGLESTAKES or a DROWNING(?not sure if I understand this correctly???)POLE? He also asked how trappers of yesterday caught beaver in silt/soft mud by using a pole? The type found in marsh beaver ponds that pull one's waders off like quck-mud. And what did they do on bedrock bottom streams and gravel bed streams to anchor their trap? Drive a stake??? See, some women take good notes, Sue Raven P.S. I think I smell a trap being set for me, he,he,he,he,. . . he. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:36:55 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Gun for Sale Hello the Camp, Shawn Webster sent me the message below. He's got a trade gun for sale, it sounds like a dandy. If he gunsmiths like he quills, it will be some! Give him a hollar. Allen X-From_: swquillwork@yahoo.com Tue Feb 5 13:05:09 2002 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:09:07 -0800 (PST) From: Shawn Webster Subject: Re: I need some help! To: Allen Hall X-postini-filters: (S:0.0241515 ) Do you know of anyone that is looking for a nice Indian trade rifle? I just finished one for myself and I really need to sell it. It's a rifled 62 caliber, 35"barreled flintlock with premium curly maple stock. I hand forged all of the parts myself including a nice iron patch box. I'm only asking $900 for it. If you could spread the word I would be greatful. Thanks! Shawn - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:39:07 -0600 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean I talked to Laura Jean for a few moments tonight and to her husband for a while longer. Laura is having a tough time right now even though her latest MRI shows the tumor to be smaller than before. Laura and her family need your prayers. She really enjoys getting notes, etc from her "mountain friends" so if you wish to send something you can use this address: Laura Rugel Glise 3841 Prestwick Lane SE Olympia, WA 98501 Once again please don't call. Lanney Ratcliff amm1585@hyperusa.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 21:52:58 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! Hello Sue and others interested in trapping, Not sure where your brother is catching beaver, but out here in the Rocky Mountains, the bottoms generally aren't that gooey and will hold a stake. I've been trapping and catching beaver for several years, and have only used the trap to drown them, primitive style. Trick is to set the stake so the beaver can't get back to the bank. Works good, and is fairly well described by a number of the period writers. Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 07:38:57 EST From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! I hate to disagree, but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. TrapRJoe - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:34:39 -0500 From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Message Board This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I set up a message board for anyones use.. If you are interested. http://pub59.ezboard.com/bwoodsrunnersandfreinds D Visit one or all these sites, find out about the [AMM] (American = Mountain Men's) "Great Buffalo Raffle". =20 AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": = http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research: http://conner110.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ =20 see the AMM site for more supporters of this event. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I set up a message board for anyones = use.. If you=20 are interested.
 
http://pub59.ez= board.com/bwoodsrunnersandfreinds
 
D
Visit one or all these sites, find out = about the=20 [AMM]  (American Mountain Men's) "Great Buffalo=20 Raffle".
 
 
AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": http://conner110.tripo= d.com/AMM-hunt.html
Double=20 Edge forge  http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<= /A>
Buck's=20 Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/<= BR>Historical=20 Research: http://conner110.tripod.com/Historical=20 Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
 see the=20 AMM site for more supporters of this = event.
- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:52:25 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! TrapRJoe, Heck, it's ok to disagree. I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the Bridger #5 disagreed as well. And lots of his 45-50 brothers and sisters. It worked in the old days, it works now. Allen At 07:38 AM 2/7/2002 EST, you wrote: >I hate to disagree, but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its >weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot >of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. > > TrapRJoe > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:08:24 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: WAS Beaver catch In a message dated 2/6/02 1:01:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, hawknest4@juno.com writes: << I got over 60 beaver out of that one area dont believe i put a dint in the beavers there-- >> If you are good, when you die you go to beaver streams and ponds like that! And the beaver skin easy as rabbits with no fleshing required. I am curious about your method of fleshing. What was it, if I may ask? Fleshing beaver is about as much fun as hitting your toe with a hammer...but a neccessary task. - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:14:49 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! In a message dated 2/7/02 7:39:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, TrapRJoe@aol.com writes: << but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. >> I would have to disagree with this. Only way a trap will drown a beaver is if it on a sliding drowning lock of some type that prevents the beaver from surfacing after it s initial reflexive dive. Beaver are pretty danged buoyant. a trap is nothing for them to haul around. TraprJon, if you are out there what are your thoughts on the issue? - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:17:17 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! In a message dated 2/7/02 11:49:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, allenhall@srv.net writes: << I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the Bridger #5 disagreed as well. >> As someone who is impartial and does not mind arbitrating I have a grand solution. All of you who claim to have used a trap to drown a beaver with its own weight should post me those traps post haste (season is nearly nigh!!) so that I can conduct an objective and impartial study of your techniques on the streams around here!!! Three traps from each trapper should do fine (Bridger, BMI and even DUKE should do fine) - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:19:36 -0500 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! Ho the List, As a veteran trapper, State Certified Trapper Education Instructor, and professional nuisance trapper, I fully agree with C. Kent, a trap alone does not drown a beaver. I have witnessed a 55# beaver swim for a time with 40#'s of weight attached to a #5 Bridger double long spring trap!!! The best way to drown a beaver with a foot hold trap is to use a slide wire (preferably staked down solid) and drowning lock. The next best method is to use a properly placed tangle stick so the beaver swims around it and the trap steak and can't get back to land, tires and drowns. If we want to be technical, beavers don't drown. They form a mucus plug in their throats so water can't pass through and they asphyxiate. As the need to get air gets critical, the beaver experiences a moment of frantic increased activity in trying to reach the surface to breath (with a human this would be panic), then calms down reducing activity to a minimum before asphyxiation (with a human this is a state of euphoria caused by chemicals in the brain being released due to lack of oxygen), then death. This fact is not just my opinion, but the result of scientific studies done on specific animals including beaver for the purpose of determining the amount of time it takes a given critter to die in a drowning set and to document that the method is humane. That's how my stick floats. Sincerely, John Enos TrapRJohn traprjon@mediaone.net "It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden, It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The Meeting!!!" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:14 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! > In a message dated 2/7/02 7:39:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, TrapRJoe@aol.com > writes: > > << but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its > weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot > of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. >> > I would have to disagree with this. Only way a trap will drown a beaver is > if it on a sliding drowning lock of some type that prevents the beaver from > surfacing after it s initial reflexive dive. Beaver are pretty danged > buoyant. a trap is nothing for them to haul around. TraprJon, if you are > out there what are your thoughts on the issue? > > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:54:49 -0700 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and they sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets and if water is low, opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg hold traps, but always tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line was run in the morning, you never know how much struggle they put up before going under. My dad always said the natural instincts of a beaver when in trouble was to go deep. If so, that helps when you are trying to drown them. Some animals will chew off their legs to get out of the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do it. mike. HikingOnThru@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/7/02 11:49:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, > allenhall@srv.net writes: > > << I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the > Bridger #5 disagreed as well. >> > As someone who is impartial and does not mind arbitrating I have a grand > solution. > > All of you who claim to have used a trap to drown a beaver with its own > weight should post me those traps post haste (season is nearly nigh!!) so > that I can conduct an objective and impartial study of your techniques on the > streams around here!!! Three traps from each trapper should do fine > (Bridger, BMI and even DUKE should do fine) > > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:18:52 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! In a message dated 2/7/02 2:57:22 PM, amm1616@earthlink.net writes: << We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and they sink like a rock >> I've done my best catching beavers wid snares.... We'd chop a hole through the ice kinda close to the lodge, and put down a stick of willow or birch, then put in 4 snares right at the bottom edge of the ice. As the beaver would swim around gnawing at the fresh stick, they'd git caught and drown. Could trap all winter if you kept the hole covered with pine boughs and snow... Ymos, Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #948 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.