From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 10:03:31 EST In a message dated 1/31/99 10:37:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time, bownez@juno.com writes: << Perhaps I should expand my search beyond Johnson and Evinrude. Thanks. >> Bownez I used to run a 6hp Johnson Sailmaster on my 17........it was great. Smooth, quiet, and all the power a 17 could ever need. I have the same motor on my M-23 now, but I'm looking at going four stroke with the Yamaha or Honda 9.9. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 10:18:18 -0500 >Perhaps I should expand my search beyond Johnson and Evinrude. I replaced a Johnson 4HP with a Honda 5HP on my M-15, and have been very pleased with it. The reason for the 5HP instead of a 2HP was the F-N-R ability. If I were to do it again, I would probably buy the newer 2HP that has a neutral capability (not available when I bought mine). It's really nice not to have that pervasive smell of (mostly) burned 2-stroke oil. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15#264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 09:47:56 CST Lenny, Can't speak for the Yamaha but I have a Honda 2 HP that I really like. It starts on the first pull and is quite. I expect it will get better mileage than the Evinrude I traded. another question: Does anyone use a elec. trolling type in conjunction with their o/b? I'm thinking about picking one up to use and was trying to figure out a practical way to hang it next to the Honda. any suggestions? thanks, Randy W. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet In a message dated 1/31/99 10:37:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time, bownez@juno.com writes: << Perhaps I should expand my search beyond Johnson and Evinrude. Thanks. >> Bownez I used to run a 6hp Johnson Sailmaster on my 17........it was great. Smooth, quiet, and all the power a 17 could ever need. I have the same motor on my M-23 now, but I'm looking at going four stroke with the Yamaha or Honda 9.9. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 09:43:12 -0700 Michael "Bones" Bowden Our Yamaha is a 4 hp, long shaft, 2 cycle with internal gas tank. It does have F-N-R, and the high torque prop, and weighs about 40 lbs. It's a great outboard! Randy randy@www1.eitc.edu Eastern Idaho Technical College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Subject: M_Boats: Raise the OB Date: 01 Feb 1999 11:31:24 -0800 I wouldn't want to talk anyone out of installing an adjustable OB motor bracket. Might do it myself one day. I will, however, share my $0.50 solution for keeping the prop out of the water while under sail. I use a bungee cord of appropriate length, hooked on the back of the motor case and under the lip of the transom. Swings my Mariner 2.5 up a few inches and out of the water. -- townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: M_Boats: outboard issues, etc. Date: 01 Feb 1999 13:29:28 CST Bones- in reference to your question: There is a dealer here ( Meeks Marine ) that is offering the new 4 hp. l/s 4 stroke for around $1165. they were also throwing in an x3 yr. warranty for $0. ( Jan-April ) It does have F/N/R but no altenator capability. Weight around 49 lbs. There is probably a Yamaha dealer in your area offering a similar deal, if not their # is 800-745-0553 ( Kemah, Tx - near Galveston ) Regards, Randy W. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 13:47:56 -0800 I was going to stay out of this until I was Stanley's post. I had an adjustable outboard bracket on my previous boat. It was o. k.. I use both a Nissan 2.5 and a Honda 2 on my M15, without an adjustable bracket, on the M15 and I don't find it to be a problem. A bungee cord is a good idea if you want to raise the prop when not in use. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 01 Feb 1999 15:17:51 -0800 Fran, Oops! I went to my garage and checked the adjustable motor mount to be certain I had given you correct information. I discovered (after consulting the West Marine catalogue) that I used the wrong access port dimension. According to WM, the screw-in access port/deck plate is specified as 4-inches, not 6-inches. The outer flange diameter is 6-1/8" (which is what I measured) and the cutout is 4-1/2". Sorry if I cause any problems or confusion. I don't think the 6-inch port would fit the area on the inner transom above the cockpit seat. But look at the bright side... the 4-inch port is less expensive. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Natalie Bohnet Subject: M_Boats: Reefing a M17 Date: 01 Feb 1999 17:10:46 -0700 We spent yesterday, practising putting 1st and 2nd reefs into our main. We have sail slugs on the main & had a few problems making it look "just so". Can someone who is an experienced reefer describe the procedure to us? Also give us some guidelines at what windspeed we would put in 1st, 2nd reefs in main; reef in jib or raise storm sail? Would appreciate any input on this. Natalie & Mike M17 #365 "Junior" Natalie Bohnet Director of Finance and Administration UApresents University of Arizona Telephone: (520) 621-3366 Fax: (520) 621-5753 email:nohnet@u.arizona.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mills" Subject: M_Boats: to those of you that are stuck in an intemperate climate.... Date: 01 Feb 1999 19:43:40 PST The Following is excerpted from Ron Dwelle's "Summer Studies" an online book free for the reading at http://www.gvsu.edu/~dweller/cruisbuk/cruise= .htm ...Rock Finding... Running aground is never pleasant, but it is rarely serious for the cruiser. I've run aground in the North Channel so many times that I couldn't begin to count them. Once, three years ago, we bounced up on top of an uncharted rock pile, and it took us nearly six hours to get our 6' deep keel off that pile. We broke the rudder, but did no really = serious damage, since the top half of the rudder was relatively undamaged, able to steer the boat except in quick turns, and the bottom = half was well enough attached to the bent rudder post that we were able = to sail 400 miles home with few problems. That was our most serious encounter with the bottom, until this last summer. I had been in and out of the south entrance to Turnbull many times--perhaps 25. Just the year before, we had made six passages through--the result of trying to leave against a heavy west wind, sticking our noses out, then retreating after bashing into waves and making no progress for a half hour. I felt, in fact, no need to even refer to the charts of the area, so confident was I of getting in and out. And last summer, we had entered easily, following an afternoon sail across from Meldrum Bay where we had done customs. I knew well where the dangers were--the principal problem were those rocks just below the surface. They lurked just north of the track that = you have to take from Cherub Rock to the gap between Caroline and Clara = Island where you finally get into some open, deep water. With the sun right, you could sometimes even see the rocks from a distance, a light = tan area in the otherwise blue-green water. This last summer, we were anxious to get home--Jo had decided that eight = weeks was too long for a cruise, that six weeks would be just about right. The last two weeks got to be a drag for her, especially the bad = expensive Canadian food. So, with a favorable forecast for a change--southeast to south winds--I was eager to make tracks, put some = miles under our keel before the wind shifted back on our nose--west to = southwest. I awoke early, as the sun came up, and decided to get underway by myself = without disturbing Jo or the kids. I pulled up anchor and, since the wind was flat calm in the anchorage, decided to start the engine and motor out. I motored to the black rock, turned and headed for the next rock, passed = that close by and altered course for Cherub Rock. Approaching that, I made my sharp right turn and took aim at the gap between Clara and Caroline--our exit from dangers. I have no idea yet how I screwed up so badly. We do have an autopilot on board--it was new for the summer and we had = used it extensively and came to trust it as a most dependable, uncomplaining mate, superb and tireless at steering the boat. It could = be that I pushed the wrong button. I was certain that I had engaged it = when I had turned the boat and had us aimed at the gap. Perhaps I missed = the button and the pilot simply held the tiller in one place, not dead = ahead, instead turning the boat in a slight arc north of the proper path. Perhaps in speeding up the engine slightly, the pressure on the helm was altered enough that the autopilot began reacting differently. = I am quite certain it was steering the boat--at least I was not. I was coiling up the anchor lines, getting things squared away, talking with = Jo who had gotten up and was sitting at the navigation desk. I glanced up at least once, to see that we were aiming at the gap. There = are a number of islands in the area--half a dozen spread out between Clara and Turnbull. It may be that I was looking at the wrong gap, that = I had somehow chosen the wrong two islands to steer between. Some minor = alarm may have gone off subconsciously, for I did ask Jo to hand up the = chart, and I normally would have felt no need for it, so comfortable was = I with my intended course. I had just gotten the chart in my hand and stood up to look over the dodger, really more of a typical, casual move than any concern about where I was going--the usual reconnoiter of the person on watch. At that instant, I noticed a peculiar swirl in the water, just ahead of = the boat. My immediate thought was not that it was a rock--how could it = be a rock when the dangerous rocks were well north of our path? Instead, = I thought, "What an odd current. It looks like a tidal swirl." It was something recalled from our salt water days, and I was wondering how such an odd current could be flowing on this day, with just the lightest = breath of air on the open lake, and really no breeze at all in here among the little islands. Nothing said to me, "It's a rock," until we hit it. Even an automobile accident doesn't prepare you for the violence of hitting a rock. In part, it's that you are going so slow in a boat--we = were making perhaps five knots at the time--you cannot imagine anything = violent happening. But a boat is not a car. Calm Psalm & Itch weighs 16,000 pounds--7,000 pounds of that in her lead keel alone. The impact = of 16,000 pounds of boat altering its state from five knots to zero instantly is astounding. Hitting solid rock--nice one-piece granite--is = amplified as the sound reverberates through the hull, like a sharp report of a high-powered rifle inside a bass drum. The mast, too, whangs, like a huge aluminum bow, with the rigging twanging like bass-note banjo strings. Jo screamed, as she kept going when the boat stopped. Her movement broke = the teak edging off the front of the seat she was sitting on, and she didn't stop until she had forced the navigation desk far enough forward = to break a bulkhead loose from the hull--solid fiberglass snapped and plywood totally shattered. In the cockpit, I pitched forward and hit the dodger full with my face. = I learned later that I had broken my nose on the stainless steel frame. = At the same time, I gouged a large enough piece of skin off my nose that = blood started dripping everywhere in the cockpit. I remember looking at = the blood and wondering where it was coming from; then thinking that I = must have a nose bleed. Touching my nostrils, I was surprised that there = was no blood on my fingers, but a pool of it on the back of my hand. At the same time my nose hit the dodger, my ribs hit the winch beside the companionway entrance to the cabin. I didn't realize for nearly six = hours that I had cracked or bruised a rib on the winch. Investigating afterwards, it was hard to see how my body could have been thrown far enough forward for a rib to be cracked, without breaking my back, since = my head had stopped at the dodger frame well aft of the winch. The boat actually bounced back from the rock, I believe. Since the engine was still running and the transmission in forward, the boat moved = ahead again and hit the rock again, though 16,000 pounds going a fraction of a mile per hour does not stop so violently. We bounced back = and surged forward to hit again before I could reach back and take the = engine out of gear, then put it in reverse for a moment to back away from the rock. I stopped to check on Jo who was fine, checking on the children who fortunately had been prone in their berths, actually asleep, when we hit, and not injured at all. In retrospect, it is not hard to imagine them severely injured, had they been playing about the boat in their normal ways. I yelled for Jo to pull the cabin floorboards, to check the leaks. I was = certain that major damage must have been done to the boat. I expected that the keel bolts would have cracked the fiberglass of the hull, or broken loose altogether. When Jo called up that there was no water coming in the boat, I thought she must have been looking in the wrong place and told her again to pull up the floorboards so she could see the = keel bolts. When she said again that she had and that there was no water, I had to go below and look myself. Praise be to well-built boats. = I'm confident most fiberglass boats would have had substantial leaking, = and many would have torn off the keel altogether. The months spent in looking for a well-made boat had paid off in Calm Psalm & Itch. With the engine, I backed the boat away from the rock which I could see = clearly now. As is the case many places in the North Channel, the rock = rose almost vertically from the bottom. Now twenty feet back away from = the rock, the depthsounder was registering 51-feet. In looking at the depthsounder, I realized that the shallow-water alarm was indeed turned = on--the display was showing it set for 12 feet. But the bottom had risen = so rapidly that the alarm had not had time to go off before we hit. It = is "damped" so a stray or odd high reading--for example, a fish underneath the boat--won't set it off. Instead, when it gets a dramatically different reading, it checks several times to make sure it = is the real thing before it signals danger. I cannot recall for sure, but I think many places in the North Channel, the rock rose almost vertically from the bottom. Now twenty feet back away from the rock, the = depthsounder was registering 51-feet. In looking at the depth With the engine, I backed further away, then turned and motored forward = around the rock, the engine in a dead slow idle. I recognized that I needed to stop my bleeding before the cockpit was filled with gore, so = I again set the autopilot, this time being careful to see that it was in = fact engaged and steering the boat. Jo handed me a towel which I pressed = on the gash to staunch the flow, and I grabbed a bucket, lowered it on = its lanyard, picked up three gallons of lake water, hoisted them, and sloshed them into the cockpit. I lowered the bucket again, and was just raising it when I happened to = look forward. I saw that somehow there had appeared right in the middle = of the gap between Clara and Caroline Islands another rock, a large one, = a full foot out of the water. How could this have happened? I immediately threw the engine in reverse and stopped the boat. Fortunately, there was still only a faint breeze, barely enough to offset the inertia of the boat sitting dead in the water. With the bucket, I sloshed off the chart which was badly stained with blood. There was no rock shown in that gap on the chart. And certainly I would = have seen it during one of our other passages through. "Something's wrong here," I said to Jo. She asked what was the matter, = and I couldn't answer her. I sat down in the cockpit and studied the chart again. It was probably five minutes before it dawned on me that I = might not be functioning too clearly. I called down to Jo again and told = her that I seemed to be disoriented. She had been getting the children = up, guarding the bilge, watching for water, so when she came up on deck = she was initially as disoriented as I was. She couldn't figure out where = we were either. Finally, we resorted to counting islands, starting behind us with Turnbull. We were aiming at a gap between the fourth and fifth islands, = but Clara was the sixth island over from Turnbull. Finally I knew for sure that I had been aiming at the wrong gap--at least after hitting the = rock--and I wondered if aiming at the wrong one had been my initial mistake. It took another ten minutes before I was confident enough of my location = to get underway again. I wondered how many serious calamities had been = caused by such disorientation, such bad judgement, after an original problem that wouldn't have otherwise proved catastrophic. Finding the right gap, we motored out past Clara and finally into open = water. Another sailboat was anchored in a cove off Clara and we thought = about approaching them. But, our boat not leaking and a fair wind rising, we hoisted sail and continued on westward, toward home. When we hauled the boat three months later, we discovered a large chunk = taken out of the keel, the lead splayed back for a distance of nearly a = foot. It took me over a hundred swings of a heavy, long-handled sledge = to hammer the lead back into a shape close to the original keel. I filled the remaining space--where lead had disappeared--with an epoxy putty, to smooth and fair the surface. Another smaller gouge was taken = out of the keel just below the hull where the forwardmost keelbolt was = exposed, and there was a deep gouge in the fiberglass hull itself. There = were a few worrisome cracks in the fiberglass, enough to prompt a thorough examination of the basic fiberglass laminate, which, fortunately, proved more resilient than the lead. My nose healed nicely, with the black-and-blue bruises disappearing within a month. However, my rib was sore well into the winter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mills" Date: 01 Feb 1999 19:49:40 PST Gee, I hope that posting with the book excerpt wasn't too long. I should have just sent the address, I suppose. Tod Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 20:42:39 -0600 Hi Lenny, Yep, I have a Johnson 6hp now on my M17. I does work well yet I am looking for an outboard a bit lighter on the motor bracket. I slip on a lake which is 3100 acres and all I need a motor for is in and out of the marina. BTW, my M17 came with a Honda 10 hp long shaft with charging system when I bought her. What a sweet motor! However, it has far more ponies than the 17 needs to push her. I've been saving it for my next boat, whatever that may be. Later, Michael "Bones" Bowden m17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 20:46:14 -0600 Hi Randy, Thanks for the input. I went and found my '99 lit on Yamaha outboards. Is a single as quiet and smooth as a twin? Curious. Later, Michael "Bones" Bowden] M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 22:26:34 -0500 Hi Bones... >>>I'm shopping for a 3.5 to 4.5 hp longshaft outboard with a F-N as minimum transmission. I hear they're rare to come across<<< How about an old Seagull ?? I may have access to a 4 HP Century Plus (CP= C model, circa '67) at a very reasonable price from a friend. = Harvey/ Ga. M-17 Stargazer #294 w/ a Silver Century Plus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 21:04:39 -0700 Michael "Bones" Bowden, In comparing the Yamaha 4 hp single to the Mercury 7.5 twin, the Yamaha is smoother running. I asked my brother about this (he is the motor guy of the family). He said the Mercury controls motor speed is by changing the timing, which he said is why it runs rough at low speeds and smokes and burns a lot of fuel at every speed except for what I call "purrrrr" speed (that speed at which the motor smoothes out and doesn't smoke so much!). The Yamaha, on the other hand, uses a carburetor type throttle which controls engine speed by adjusting the amount of fuel. It works great! But you've got to remember that the Mercury was 1975 model, and the Yamaha a 1988. Randy randy@www1.eitc.edu Eastern Idaho Technical College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 01 Feb 1999 22:25:18 CST Michael, can't speak for the Yamaha but my Honda 2 purrs along at a decent decibel level. Randy W _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Hi Randy, Thanks for the input. I went and found my '99 lit on Yamaha outboards. Is a single as quiet and smooth as a twin? Curious. Later, Michael "Bones" Bowden] M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Walter" Subject: M_Boats: M17 #39 errr, umm #37 saga continues Date: 02 Feb 1999 02:27:27 -0500 Well, another wrinkle. The Florida title listed the boat as HIN = 0039 -- which is what I used for my original posting, but closer inspection (i.e. - reading the HIN carved in the stern while cleaning her up) reveals she is actually hull # 37 (i.e. - complete HIN is something like "M1700377410") anyway, a paperwork drill to get the title corrected. And no, I have no reason to believe the seller is trying to put one over on me. Anyway, today's question is: What is the best replacment for the centerboard winch? And, who can I get it from? What was originally installed? (as mine is missing) The update on the centerboard itself is positive -- if I ever get it out of the trunk. I spent Saturday afternoon beating on it with a sledge and steel bar. Got it going pretty good, too; exposing around 14 inches of it and it looks in surprisingly good shape for it age. But, then I dropped the steel bar down the trunk. Sunday I dropped the magnet I was fishing for the steel bar with down there too. All in all an inauspicious start to ownership of my new boat. Hopefully the fishing expedition with magnet number two will have better luck one night this week :-) One more question. Once I beat the CB all the way down, will I be able to remove it from the trunk by taking out only the pivot bolt (i.e. - dropping the fwd end out of the trunk and pulling it fwd); or will I have to remove the aft stop bolt also? another happy boat owner, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 02 Feb 1999 07:32:41 -0800 Joe Kidd wrote: > > Fran, > > Oops! I went to my garage and checked the adjustable motor mount to be > certain I had given you correct information. I discovered (after > consulting the West Marine catalogue) that I used the wrong access port > dimension. According to WM, the screw-in access port/deck plate is > specified as 4-inches, not 6-inches. The outer flange diameter is 6-1/8" > (which is what I measured) and the cutout is 4-1/2". Sorry if I cause any > problems or confusion. I don't think the 6-inch port would fit the area on > the inner transom above the cockpit seat. But look at the bright side... > the 4-inch port is less expensive. > > Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" Joe, Thanks for the correction. I made a note of it. Appreciate your help! Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard Date: 02 Feb 1999 10:30:31 EST Bones How interesting............you wouldn't be interested in selling the Honda 10, would you.? Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17centerboard Date: 02 Feb 1999 10:30:32 EST Bob I believe you will have to drive the aft stop pin out before the board will extend fully. My old 17 had a swing keel and worm drive operated by a hand crank. I believe I like the combo keel better............... Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17centerboard Date: 02 Feb 1999 10:59:11 -0500 Removing the aft pin is not difficult, and would make the task simpler. Remember to drive the pin out from the port side, not the starboard side. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 02 Feb 1999 10:49:46 -0800 For what it's worth... Some years ago I almost lost a boat on a San Francisco Bay harbor jetty because of an unreliable Seagull identical to the one you are considering buying. I never trusted it again and got rid of it. It was one of the most tempormental motors I saw. My brother is still using the Johnson twin-6 I replaced it with. That old Johnson is still going strong and has never missed a beat. I've been doing research because I want a new outboard for my M-15. My Evinrude 4 is too heavy and has no gearshift, which I consider a must when singlehanding. Presently I'm using a little Tanaka 1.75 hp (which has a centrifugal clutch) to get in and out of the dock. It is reliable and has never failed -- even after dunking it when I rolled my canoe -- but it air cooled and too noisy to use for any length of time. Take a look at the Mercury 3.5 hp. It has F/N and at 28 pounds, it is lighter than most of the other outboards in its class. It is manufactured by Tohatsu and is identical to the Nissan and Tohatsu with one exception; Mercury converted the conventional ignition to a solid state electronic ignition. Also, the price is around $75-100 less than Nissan or Tohatsu. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 02 Feb 1999 13:27:39 CST Joe/ when you replaced your motor mount did you install the inspection port first to get to the backing screws for the old mount? I installed one of the ports on my last boat and it wasn't that big of a job. The 2" "lip" gives the inspection port a nice finished look and marine sealant keeps it water tight. I traced a circle of the inside dimension and used a drill to go around the cutout. The "raw" cut out was jagged but it didn't matter because the inspection plate covered everything. If there is an eaiser / better way to do this task I'd be interested in hearing and learning. thanks Randy W M15#194 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Joe Kidd wrote: > > Fran, > > Oops! I went to my garage and checked the adjustable motor mount to be > certain I had given you correct information. I discovered (after > consulting the West Marine catalogue) that I used the wrong access port > dimension. According to WM, the screw-in access port/deck plate is > specified as 4-inches, not 6-inches. The outer flange diameter is 6-1/8" > (which is what I measured) and the cutout is 4-1/2". Sorry if I cause any > problems or confusion. I don't think the 6-inch port would fit the area on > the inner transom above the cockpit seat. But look at the bright side... > the 4-inch port is less expensive. > > Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" Joe, Thanks for the correction. I made a note of it. Appreciate your help! Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 02 Feb 1999 13:18:54 -0800 Randy, The inspection port and adjustable motor mount were on the boat when I bought it. It would seem logical, however, that the port would be installed first. That would open up everything and make working on the motor mount a lot easier. As you say, it is a straight-forward installation and should be easily installed with a saber saw, drill, screwdriver and some silicone sealer. A word of advice from one who works with wood: Place masking tape -- and maybe some craft paper -- over the area you are going to be sawing to prevent scuffing the fiberglass surface with the bouncing saber saw. Joe M-15 #207 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[4]: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 02 Feb 1999 15:28:16 CST good advice on the masking, etc. one question on silicon, I was advised not to use it on fiberglass due to the chemical content ( by BOAT U.S. ) but used a white 3M marine caulk. any info on that? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Randy, The inspection port and adjustable motor mount were on the boat when I bought it. It would seem logical, however, that the port would be installed first. That would open up everything and make working on the motor mount a lot easier. As you say, it is a straight-forward installation and should be easily installed with a saber saw, drill, screwdriver and some silicone sealer. A word of advice from one who works with wood: Place masking tape -- and maybe some craft paper -- over the area you are going to be sawing to prevent scuffing the fiberglass surface with the bouncing saber saw. Joe M-15 #207 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 02 Feb 1999 17:15:19 EST I've not heard about the silicone/fiberglass problem but it shrinks with time and can leak. I use Boatlife Caulk for everything above the waterline. It doesn't harden like 5200 and can be removed years down the road.................. The tape cuts down on shredding of fiberglass as well as scratching. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Reefing a M17 Date: 02 Feb 1999 18:54:05 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Can someone who is an experienced reefer describe the procedure to us? Also give us some guidelines at what windspeed we would put in 1st, 2nd reefs in main; reef in jib or raise storm sail? Would appreciate any input on this. Natalie & Mike< HI, I have jiffy reefing on my M15 and do not have sail slugs but I believe that you may need to work with a sailmaker to accomodate the sail= slugs. The slugs will bunch up on top of the boom and prevent the luff reefing cringle from reaching the boom. This would also leave the mid sa= il reef points higher than the boom or if tightend to the boom would put a large wrinkle from the luff reefing cringle to the first reef tie down. The following process is the one I use without a toping lift.(usually done under way or drifting with all sailing luffing like crazy). 1.Uncleat and loosen the main sheet. 2. Pull in the line through the leech reefing cringle all the wa= y and cleat it off. This will raise the aft end of the boom very high and looks strange. In order to do this the cleat for the reefing line mus be= forward of the mid point of the boom or you will be leaning very far out over the water to cleat it. 3. Lower the main until the luff reefing cringle is just above th= e boom and loosly tie off/cleat the main halyard. 4. tighten the luff reefing line snugly and cleat it off. 4a - you can use the down haul as a luff reefing line if you don'= t mind re-reeving it. It may be too short with slugs. = 4b - If you are using a reefing hook you lower the main until yo= u can hook it and then tighten the main halyard. 5. tighten the main halyard. 6. tie off the mid sail reefing points minimizing wrinkles ( if things are set up well they should be minimal) 7. clean up and tie away the extra line 8. sail away If you have a toping lift that isn't fixed to a back stayand don'= t mind putting the wieght of the boom and half of a crew member on it ( falling about in the waves and looking for support) you can adjust the toping lift first, then lower the sail and go through the other steps. With practice it only takes about 2 minutes. Happy sailing Doug "Seas the Day" = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DoorAriel@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: motor bracket Date: 02 Feb 1999 19:11:30 EST Have noticed lots of traffic regarding motor brackets -- thought I'd jump in. I bought a fuller spring loaded lifting bracket at West Marine and am pleased with it. I went for the bracket tested to 20 HP because I wanted to avoid vibration noise and rattling, Works great. I mounted it under the cutout in the transom of my M17 so that the fuel line can fit through the cutout and so I can have easy access to the controls. I am presently using a single cylinder, long shaft, 5HP Tohatsu engine (40 lbs). It vibrates a bit at some RPMs, but it is a very reliable machine. When the bracket is raised, the motor is completely out of the water. weight does not seem to be a problem, though I have placed my battery under the stbd side of the V berth and my canned goods under the quarter berth to balance things. I mounted the bracket far enough outboard so that the rudder just clears the hardware when the helm is hard to starboard -- have complete rudder steering freedom while under power. Dick -- M17 - 253 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Reefing an access ports Date: 02 Feb 1999 21:31:29 -0500 Doug, et al, Don't beat up your sails luffing when tying in a reef, or performing those other necessary tasks that take a singlehander away from the tiller. Try heaving to instead. It's simple. Just bring the bow through the wind, as though tacking, but don't touch the jib sheet. Leave it backwinded, cleated to what is now the windward side. Depending on wind and sea conditions and the length of time needed, you may want to tie the tiller off to leeward. The main can be left alone. It will be mostly blanketed by the jib, and won't thrash much. I remember reading somewhere in the archives, I believe, about how to fish a backing plate up inside transom and secure it. I checked the archives and couldn't find it, but did find a note that the process was described in the Fall 1996 MON newsletter. An access port would certainly be handy, but I'd rather not cut a 4" hole anywhere in the boat, if I could help it. I'm going to have to figure something out, times two, since I would like to install both a lifting motor bracket and boarding ladder on Storm Petrel. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: Re[4]: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 02 Feb 1999 22:11:42 -0800 Randy, All I know is what I read in the West Marine Catalogue. I've always preferred bedding/adhesives like 3M 5200 or Silkaflex but a footnote in the WM catalogue advises seating the ports in silicone. Maybe there is some kind of chemical reaction with the plastic compound of the port. Joe Kidd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 03 Feb 1999 15:11:34 EST Thought I would throw my two cents in with regard to reefing. I agree wit= h the post suggesting reefing while heaving-to. Flogging the main with the sheet free not only makes reefing more difficult, it also makes it more dangerous as the boom whips about. Also, heaving-to creates a slick to windward of the boat (honest) that aids in flattening things out for the duration of the operation. It does, however, require that your reefing li= ne be led far enough forward on the boom that you do not have to lean out ove= r the water to pull down the clew. A previous post suggested pulling in the clew first. I much prefer pullin= g down the tack and then hauling down (and back) the clew. This is the only= way you can get good tension along the foot of the sail--a very important aspe= ct of reefing. My reefing procedure is as follows: 1) while standing in open companionway, I loosen the halyard with one hand while pulling down the new tack cringle with the other (I installed a tack hook on the standard gooseneck simply by using a longer clevis pin). Afte= r hooking the tack (careful to hook it so that the hook will not poke the sail--one way does, and one does not), I then re tension the luff with the halyard and make fast. 2) I then haul in the new clew, being careful to keep the panel of sail ar= ea removed tidy and to one side of the boom. Again, no sense in reefing if y= ou don't get a nice taught foot. 3) After regaining way, I then roll the panel removed and tie in the reef points with a slip reef knot. I remove the reefs in exactly the reverse order. I have two sets of reef points on my main, and one on my working jib. I also have a storm jib. I find that with the second reef and storm jib, the boat can handle some pre= tty rough stuff. While I have reefed under way, I find it much safer and less stressful while single handing to heave-to. As for slugs, I have sailed o= n M15's with and without. If you have slugs, you have two options. You can either use a removable track stop to liberate the slugs necessary to bring= the new tack down to the gooseneck, or you can install lacing on the slugs in question. The lacing is configured so that when under full main, the luff= is pulled taught to the slugs, but when you lower the sail to tie in a reef, = the lacing relaxes enough to allow the cringle to be hooked or pulled in. I s= till have the bolt-rope luff on mine, though I will probably convert over befor= e any more long trips. Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 03 Feb 1999 16:22:12 -0500 Message text written by Scott >I agree with the post suggesting reefing while heaving-to.< I will have to try it. The M15 does heave to very nicely but I always assumed that when you lowered the halyard the pressure on the main would disappear as the boom dropped and swings outboard and the backwinded jib would then make the boat head off downwind and then... What really happens? = I reef the clew first to keep the boom from dropping into the water or on= the deck. I don't use a reef hook because I need to have some tension applied at the tack and it seems to work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: M_Boats: M15 jib Date: 03 Feb 1999 15:29:37 CST I was planning on having a storm jib made this Spring. Someone mentioned to me about having reef points put in the standard jib. Is this practical and was wondering if anyone had done that. Randy W M15#194 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 jib Date: 03 Feb 1999 16:59:09 -0800 I have a set of reef points on my M 23 working jib, when set it nicely balances a double reefed main. About the only downside is catching a "dead baby" wave and thereby blowing the sail out. Dick "Sadhana" Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu wrote: > I was planning on having a storm jib made this Spring. Someone > mentioned to me about having reef points put in the standard jib. > Is this practical and was wondering if anyone had done that. > > Randy W > M15#194 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ed florence Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 03 Feb 1999 17:24:46 -0800 (PST) ---Doug Kelch wrote: > > Message text written by Scott > >I agree with the post suggesting reefing while heaving-to.< > > I will have to try it. The M15 does heave to very nicely but I always > assumed that when you lowered the halyard the pressure on the main would > disappear as the boom dropped and swings outboard and the backwinded jib > would then make the boat head off downwind and then... > What really happens? > I reef the clew first to keep the boom from dropping into the water or on > the deck. I don't use a reef hook because I need to have some tension > applied at the tack and it seems to work. Doug: For the first year or so that I sailed "Whistle", I tried to reef as you described. I realized that the trick to reefing is not to let the boom drop. At the beginning of the second season, I rigged a masthead topping lift, and it has made all the difference in the world. This topping lift remains shackled to the clew end of the boom at all times. The other end ties off to a pad eye mounted on the forward side of the mast about 3 feet above the deck. This pad eye also works great with my whisker pole when winging out the jib, but thats another story. The topping lift line is long enough so that there is a good deal of slack in it most of the time. When its time to reef, the drill is: Heave to. Tension the topping lift. Slack the main halyard and lower the main. Tie down the new tack cringle. Haul in the jiffy reef line (ALWAYS sail with this line rigged) and tie down the clew cringle. Ease the topping lift. Retrim main and jib. Total time, even singlehanded, probably averages 2 or 3 minutes. Peace Ed M-15 #342 "Whistle" > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard Date: 03 Feb 1999 21:22:56 -0600 Lenny, I think I'll hang on to the Honda for now. She looks brand new and even tho' I don't need it at the moment, I feel a purpose for it is around the corner. 4 strokes are tremendous. Bones ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 03 Feb 1999 21:16:15 -0600 Randy, Thanks for the input. Yep, I agree, two stroke motor technology is getting more refined. The Johnson 6hp I have uses timing to increase motor speed. It shakes and smokes at idle and will often kill. it definitly is one of the irks I have with older 2 strokes. I haven't tried some of the later models on Bonita, but some other sailors at the marina have newer 2 strokes and seem to be happy with them. later, Bones ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: motor bracket Date: 03 Feb 1999 21:52:13 -0600 Hi Dick, I have a 20hp style motor bracket mounted to the transom of my M17 in a similar fashion as yours. I am running a heavier motor, 58 lbs for the Johnson 6hp. My question: (you knew there was going to be a question), I see the transom "flex" when operation the raising and lowering of the motor bracket. I have reinforced the inside of the transom wall with plywood, yet I still see flexing of the fiberglass. This makes me want a lighter motor. Any thoughts on this matter? Thanks Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 03 Feb 1999 21:10:08 -0600 Harvey, I've heard you speak of Seagulls on many an occasion, yet I know little about them, They're British correct? (will I love them as much as my old Triumph motorcycle?). So, what are the specs- mine are: longshaft, tranny, N and F OK. Twin cylinder, max weight 45 lbs. Am I close? Any product info you could fax to me? I do love unique motors. Thanks, Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: motor bracket Date: 03 Feb 1999 21:52:13 -0600 Hi Dick, I have a 20hp style motor bracket mounted to the transom of my M17 in a similar fashion as yours. I am running a heavier motor, 58 lbs for the Johnson 6hp. My question: (you knew there was going to be a question), I see the transom "flex" when operation the raising and lowering of the motor bracket. I have reinforced the inside of the transom wall with plywood, yet I still see flexing of the fiberglass. This makes me want a lighter motor. Any thoughts on this matter? Thanks Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Access Port Size Date: 03 Feb 1999 09:28:24 +0000 Re: silicone bedding The only problem with silicone bedding that I know of is that it makes it difficult to paint the boat in the future. I do the repair work for the collegiate aquatic center (mostly rowing shells) that usually involves some painting and when parts have been bedded in silicone it creates a painter's nightmare. No matter how much I scrub and sand the area, it is a problem to paint and usually there is some blistering within a year or so. Polyurethane, such as Sikaflex or 5200, is more better except for acryllic windows. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 04 Feb 1999 22:20:58 -0500 Ho Bones... Seagulls and WWP 15's nurtured me in my pre-boat days, when a large (5 kids and granny) kept me po and boatless. I've looked long and hard for a reasonably priced Seagull, and finally fe= ll into several at once. I finally got a 5hp Silver Century Plus ('68) that= looks good and runs (on test bench) well. Starts in 2 pulls every time (= 8 times) My friend also has a 4hp w/ F-N that's a few years older (and cheaper then mine ($150) and runs well. Try http://www.britishseagull.com for low quality pics of the older model= s. Mine is the older series without a recoil starter. There's also a plac= e in Australia minards??..the site's address is at work, but you should be able to find it wita search engine (Yahoo,etc). He has specs on the last = of the breed..the QB series. = I can fax some stuff to you if you want. They may not be the cleanest/ quietest engine, but they're neat (IMO) Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 04 Feb 1999 22:29:06 -0500 The neat thing about heaving to is that the boat doesn't head off downwind - it just stays put. A topping lift does wonders when reefing, and controls the boom any time you are lowering sail. Mine is tied off at the masthead, at the correct length to keep the boom level. I usually attach the snap shackle on the lower end to the reefing line when sailing, so it is handy when needed and I can move it to the terminal eye on the boom. I plan to pop rivet a cheek block to the mast top in order to have a two-way topping lift. Anyone have suggestions for just where it should go? What to do, and what not to do? Thanks, Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 04 Feb 1999 23:15:38 EST Re: the clew first reefing question. It is almost impossible and very important to get the clew as tight as possible without destroying the sail as this also flattens the lower third of the main...most important! As to reccomended 'times' or wind speeds to reef it is up tto the crew and boats behavior and comfort level to some extent. If the boat is overpowered it is time to reef ( I know reef just prior to that.........) there is no dial or flashing light on your boats dashboard to tell us we are getting low on fuel or full of wind! Hey thats what some like about sailing. The BEST way to learn is to sail in every condition you are equipped for and increase ones experience and hence abilities, Please use prudence but remember you will not know what to expect intil you have tried a little of it...sometimes with outside help if needed. Its like playing the violin.....PRACTICE..PRACTICE..PRACT.................... Be Careful Have Fun Do It the tried and true way. There IS a reason Have fun again!!!!!!! Good Sailing Gary O. M-17 #319 AoxomoxoA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 04 Feb 1999 23:15:54 EST Re: the clew first reefing question. It is almost impossible and very important to get the clew as tight as possible without destroying the sail as this also flattens the lower third of the main...most important! As to reccomended 'times' or wind speeds to reef it is up tto the crew and boats behavior and comfort level to some extent. If the boat is overpowered it is time to reef ( I know reef just prior to that.........) there is no dial or flashing light on your boats dashboard to tell us we are getting low on fuel or full of wind! Hey thats what some like about sailing. The BEST way to learn is to sail in every condition you are equipped for and increase ones experience and hence abilities, Please use prudence but remember you will not know what to expect intil you have tried a little of it...sometimes with outside help if needed. Its like playing the violin.....PRACTICE..PRACTICE..PRACT.................... Be Careful Have Fun Do It the tried and true way. There IS a reason Have fun again!!!!!!! Good Sailing Gary O. M-17 #319 AoxomoxoA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 04 Feb 1999 23:43:14 EST "Bones" Have I got a motor for you.(stoogie hangin' out my mouth) I have and would reluctantly part with the Gonzo British Seagull to make most all pale in comparison(?) A 1981 fresh water Model 110 EFNRL222JJI with Long-Range (1 gal.-4.5 litres) tank, optional Recoil Starter, and Detachable Clamp on bracket. This translates to a :full transmission,FNR, approx. 4:1 reduction gearcase, one cylinder, electronic ignition, hydro-fan prop, tractor motor of outboards! I have ALL documentation for above parts lists etc. Call Mike Oswald at M.O. Marine and ask what they are worth, he sold me all the parts to refurbish and the parts book and service /owners manual. A very knowledgeable guy, fair also. (425)828-7824 I will entertain all reasonable offers P.S. I determine "reasonable".I have way too many motors and not enuf garage, I want to finish my old truck not collect motors. I can fax (easiest for me now) all specs and drawings. Have a great day, make a new friend, go sailing,be tolerant. Gary O. M-17 #319 P.S. your moniker got me started on this tirade!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 04 Feb 1999 23:30:33 -0600 Hi Gary, What's the hp figure on the 110 model? Have you had this on your Montgomery? Is this a long shaft? What is the weight? Is that enough questions for now? Thanks Bones ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: cushions Date: 05 Feb 1999 09:20:20 -0800 To all: Has anyone made cockpit cushions for the M15? If so, how thick? They are nice for a long sail. Did the manufacturer ever offer them? I wonder if Norsea will. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 jib Date: 05 Feb 1999 12:54:14 EST In a message dated 2/3/99 9:31:29 PM, you wrote: << I was planning on having a storm jib made this Spring. Someone mentioned to me about having reef points put in the standard jib. Is this practical and was wondering if anyone had done that. Randy W M15#194>> Randy, I believe the later M15's came standard (or offered as an option) with one= set of reefing points in the jib (mine, a 1991 with Kern Sails, has jib reefin= g). It seems to work fairly well, though it is not as high footed as my storm = jib. I see the reefed working jib as an incremental step. When it really pip= es- up, I like the storm jib (mine is a real high footed "blade") because it d= oes a better job of opening up the slot between main and jib--a key point in depowering the main, and therefore reducing weather helm. It is easier, however, to reef the working jib than it is to hank on the storm jib (especially when single handed), so I would argue that the reefable jib do= es have its place. You might recall that the Pardeys used reefable jibs as a= n integral part of their sail inventory on Serrafyn. In addition to the normal jib downhaul, mine came equipped with a reefing downhaul(for the reefable working jib) led aft to the port coaming. This enables you to haul the new tack down to the stem fitting without going forward. If I am going to reef the jib, I untie the lazy sheet (windward)= and move it to the new clew. I then tack, release the halyard, and haul in on= the reefing downhaul. The new lazy sheet can then be transferred, and the exc= ess sail rolled and tied of at the points. Virtually all of this can be perfo= rmed while standing in the open companionway. If you would like measurements f= or the jib reefs, let me know. Scott Grometer, M15 #478, "b=E9b=E9" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: cushions Date: 05 Feb 1999 10:01:12 -0800 Fran, I have a set of M15 cockpit cushions under my bed. I'm sure they were original equipment. They are 3" thick. I don't use them. Where in this great country are you? Dan -----Original Message----- >To all: > Has anyone made cockpit cushions for the M15? If so, how thick? >They are nice for a long sail. Did the manufacturer ever offer them? >I wonder if Norsea will. >Fran > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 jib Date: 05 Feb 1999 10:06:33 -0800 Scott, My 15 has reef points in the jib, and I've used them a time or two. T= he secondary downhaul sounds good (don't have a second one rigged), but I do= n't understand how you can tidy up the slack while standing in the companionway???? Can you elaborate on that point. Thank You Dan -----Original Message----- > >In a message dated 2/3/99 9:31:29 PM, you wrote: > ><< I was planning on having a storm jib made this Spring. Someone > mentioned to me about having reef points put in the standard jib. > Is this practical and was wondering if anyone had done that. > > Randy W > M15#194>> > >Randy, >I believe the later M15's came standard (or offered as an option) with o= ne set >of reefing points in the jib (mine, a 1991 with Kern Sails, has jib reefing). >It seems to work fairly well, though it is not as high footed as my stor= m jib. >I see the reefed working jib as an incremental step. When it really pipes- >up, I like the storm jib (mine is a real high footed "blade") because it does >a better job of opening up the slot between main and jib--a key point in >depowering the main, and therefore reducing weather helm. It is easier, >however, to reef the working jib than it is to hank on the storm jib >(especially when single handed), so I would argue that the reefable jib does >have its place. You might recall that the Pardeys used reefable jibs as= an >integral part of their sail inventory on Serrafyn. > >In addition to the normal jib downhaul, mine came equipped with a reefin= g >downhaul(for the reefable working jib) led aft to the port coaming. Thi= s >enables you to haul the new tack down to the stem fitting without going >forward. If I am going to reef the jib, I untie the lazy sheet (windwar= d) and >move it to the new clew. I then tack, release the halyard, and haul in = on the >reefing downhaul. The new lazy sheet can then be transferred, and the excess >sail rolled and tied of at the points. Virtually all of this can be performed >while standing in the open companionway. If you would like measurements for >the jib reefs, let me know. >Scott Grometer, M15 #478, "b=E9b=E9" > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 05 Feb 1999 13:10:14 EST In a message dated 2/3/99 9:24:43 PM, you wrote: <> It does take a little trial and error. The boat will sometimes zig-zag of= f the wind a bit, but even when lowering the main, the boat will tend to hea= d back up after it falls off. I sometimes sheet the main in slightly so tha= t this tendency is reduced, but not so much that the luff binds while reduci= ng sail. I highly recommend the topping lift. Mine goes from the boom to a turning block at the masthead (on a becket attached to the masthead by the pin retaining the aft halyard sheave), and then down the mast on the port side= to a cleat. If any topping lift adjustments are necessary, they can be made = from the companionway. I can't imagine not having a topping lift now. Flaking= the main at day's end is hard enough without having the boom lying all over th= e cockpit--especially if you still have the bolt rope main. I also like hav= ing the boom out of the cockpit for motoring, though one could use the main halyard as a topping lift for that purpose (main halyard clipped to termin= al eye at aft end of boom). Happy heaving, Scott Grometer, M15 #478, "b=E9b=E9" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: M_Boats: Re:Toping Lift Date: 05 Feb 1999 12:06:44 -0700 Regarding Toping Lifts: I've enjoyed all the discussion on toping lifts, I've gleaned some great ideas! My current toping lift is somewhat different, and I thought I would pass it along for what it's worth. I have one end of a 3/16 cord tied at the top of the mast. The other end has a small snap shackle attached and runs through a D ring attached on the end of the boom. The line passes through the D ring and then attaches back onto itself. I have 2 attachment points for my toping lift, one for while under way (give the line some slop so it doesn't interfere with the main sail) and another for when the main is down (keeping the boom level). I can switch between the 2 by grabbing the boom and "click" - "click" the shackle. If I could just draw in e-mail !!! It is a simple rig that has worked well for me and has the advantage of not having to leave the tiller. Randy M-15 #407 randy@www1.eitc.edu Eastern Idaho Technical College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: M15 jib Date: 05 Feb 1999 14:11:30 CST thanks, I may yell at you later for some measurements. Randy W ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet In a message dated 2/3/99 9:31:29 PM, you wrote: << I was planning on having a storm jib made this Spring. Someone mentioned to me about having reef points put in the standard jib. Is this practical and was wondering if anyone had done that. Randy W M15#194>> Randy, I believe the later M15's came standard (or offered as an option) with one= set of reefing points in the jib (mine, a 1991 with Kern Sails, has jib reefin= g). It seems to work fairly well, though it is not as high footed as my storm = jib. I see the reefed working jib as an incremental step. When it really pip= es- up, I like the storm jib (mine is a real high footed "blade") because it d= oes a better job of opening up the slot between main and jib--a key point in depowering the main, and therefore reducing weather helm. It is easier, however, to reef the working jib than it is to hank on the storm jib (especially when single handed), so I would argue that the reefable jib do= es have its place. You might recall that the Pardeys used reefable jibs as a= n integral part of their sail inventory on Serrafyn. In addition to the normal jib downhaul, mine came equipped with a reefing downhaul(for the reefable working jib) led aft to the port coaming. This enables you to haul the new tack down to the stem fitting without going forward. If I am going to reef the jib, I untie the lazy sheet (windward)= and move it to the new clew. I then tack, release the halyard, and haul in on= the reefing downhaul. The new lazy sheet can then be transferred, and the exc= ess sail rolled and tied of at the points. Virtually all of this can be perfo= rmed while standing in the open companionway. If you would like measurements f= or the jib reefs, let me know. Scott Grometer, M15 #478, "b=E9b=E9" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael & Lizabeth Towers Subject: M_Boats: Inner stay on an M17 Date: 05 Feb 1999 17:48:28 -0600 I'm considering buying an M17 that has a 150% genoa on a CDI furler. I've never owned a boat with roller furling and wonder what to do when the wind really pipes up. The rule of thumb is that you can roller furl down 30%, which in this case is about down to a working jib. Has anyone on the list installed a removeable inner stay for a storm jib? If Jerry is listening, what do you recommend? Michael Towers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mills" Date: 05 Feb 1999 19:04:53 PST Hallo!, M-Boaters Anyone ever do any sailing up in the North Channel of Lake Huron? Tod Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 05 Feb 1999 22:14:41 EST what does...aoxomoxoa mean??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Aoxomoxoa Date: 05 Feb 1999 19:56:32 -0800 Me too... what does "aoxomoxoa" mean? Joe Kidd M-15 #207 Poco A Poco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: cushions Date: 05 Feb 1999 20:00:00 -0800 Dan Diehlman wrote: > > Fran, > I have a set of M15 cockpit cushions under my bed. I'm sure they were > original equipment. They are 3" thick. I don't use them. > Where in this great country are you? > > Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: Francene Lebowitz > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 9:19 AM > Subject: M_Boats: cushions > > >To all: > > Has anyone made cockpit cushions for the M15? If so, how thick? > >They are nice for a long sail. Did the manufacturer ever offer them? > >I wonder if Norsea will. > >Fran > > > > Dan, I am in So. Cal. What about the cushions don't you like? Too thick? What kind of fabric are they covered in? Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: cushions Date: 05 Feb 1999 22:53:56 -0800 Fran, They are vinyl. I suppose most of them are to suppress water absorption. I don't dislike them but don't need them. I seem to have enough natural cushioning. I'm up in Fresno. Dan -----Original Message----- >Dan Diehlman wrote: >> >> Fran, >> I have a set of M15 cockpit cushions under my bed. I'm sure they were >> original equipment. They are 3" thick. I don't use them. >> Where in this great country are you? >> >> Dan >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Francene Lebowitz >> To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >> >> Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 9:19 AM >> Subject: M_Boats: cushions >> >> >To all: >> > Has anyone made cockpit cushions for the M15? If so, how thick? >> >They are nice for a long sail. Did the manufacturer ever offer them? >> >I wonder if Norsea will. >> >Fran >> > >> > >Dan, > I am in So. Cal. What about the cushions don't you like? Too thick? >What kind of fabric are they covered in? >Fran > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: M15 jib Date: 06 Feb 1999 08:35:28 EST would really appreciate measurements...please...thank you...k ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Cushions Date: 06 Feb 1999 10:23:59 -0500 The M15 is a small boat, and while the cockpit length is as generous as that of many larger boats, the coamings aren't very high, and the seat isn't very wide. So there isn't much back or leg support, especially when sitting on 2 or 3 inch thick cushions. And if you put a cushion behind you, sitting farther forward reduces the leg support even more. My solutiion was to purchase a camping seat that looks like a right angle, with straps attaching the sides. Mine is a Crazy Creek Original camping chair, but there are other brands, including Therm-A-Rest. The "padding" is no more than 1" thick, and it extends beyond and above the cockpit seat to provide even more back and leg support. After a long day, I do begin to feel the hard seat through the thin padding. So it's not a perfect solution, but I like it. And what is an "aoxomoxoa", anyway? Bill Riker M<15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Kimmet Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder mod Date: 06 Feb 1999 12:42:25 -0500 Bones--I also had my rudder impinge upon a hard surface last fall. On ou= r last sail of the season on Lake Mille Lacs I wasn't paying attention and = we hit some rocks. Sheared the end off the brass rod and bent the hell out = of it, but it stayed on. I have a spare rod that works but doesn't fit quit= e right, also it is steel and i like the idea of using brass so it will ben= d rather than pulling the gudgeons off. I picked up some brass rod and hav= e to get it machined before spring. See you on the water. = Jim Kimmet M17 Blue Skies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cushions Date: 06 Feb 1999 11:58:09 -0800 William B Riker wrote: > > The M15 is a small boat, and while the cockpit length is as generous as > that of many larger boats, the coamings aren't very high, and the seat > isn't very wide. So there isn't much back or leg support, especially when > sitting on 2 or 3 inch thick cushions. And if you put a cushion behind > you, sitting farther forward reduces the leg support even more. > > My solutiion was to purchase a camping seat that looks like a right angle, > with straps attaching the sides. Mine is a Crazy Creek Original camping > chair, but there are other brands, including Therm-A-Rest. The "padding" > is no more than 1" thick, and it extends beyond and above the cockpit seat > to provide even more back and leg support. After a long day, I do begin > to feel the hard seat through the thin padding. So it's not a perfect > solution, but I like it. > > And what is an "aoxomoxoa", anyway? > > Bill Riker > M<15 #184 > Storm Petrel Don't know what aoxomoxoa is, but it's a very symmetrical bunch of letters. Good idea with that camping seat, Bill. I suppose one could strap it to the waist, so when you moved about it would still be there. What we scrawny types have to put up with! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rland@win.bright.net Subject: M_Boats: Hi to all and a boat question Date: 06 Feb 1999 15:02:57 -0600 Hi to all on the list. I've never posted to a list before so please excuse any gaffes. Although I've never sailed a Montgomery, I'm an admirer. In fact, Randy Palmer might remember me because I looked at the M-23 he had for sale. I decided that a 23 was a bit more than I could afford, and then never found another boat that I really liked. Since then, I've acquired some real estate, so now everything's out of my price range! (under $2000) This brings me to my question. I'm considering a Balboa 20 which is in my price range. I know, it's not a Montgomery, but I thought that I could at least still sail a Lyle Hess design. Has anyone here had one, sailed one, or does anyone have any comments? I havent seen the actual boat yet, just the line drawing, and my only thought was that there was an awful lot of unsupported centerboard hanging down beneath the hull. But then I've never sailed on anything with a centerboard, just full-keel boats, so maybe that's normal. Hopefully none of you minds that I've asked a non-Montgomery question, but I couldn't find a comparable list for Balboas. Actually, I'd love an M17 - maybe when my budget is bigger. Thanks in advance for any info. Rland ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 06 Feb 1999 16:13:46 EST Michael, 6 hp,yes it is long,yes I have had it on the 17, I dont have the specs in front of me right now. The motor works very well on the 17. I have another motor I am currently using, the dreaded Evinrude 4 Yachtwin only because it is a bit less weight. I do like the idea, sound, full trans, appearance,and style the Seagull has but I just dont seem to be using any of it much at this time. I can fax info if you are interested. Gary O. M-17 #319 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi to all and a boat question Date: 06 Feb 1999 15:22:27 -0600 (CST) Hi "rland," I remember your visit that wintery day! The M23 now lives in a warmer climate where they can sail more or less year round - on the Colorado/New Mexico border. On to your question, I have not sailed a Balboa 20 but I along with the rest of the crowd at an open regatta of the Lake Wissota Yacht Club got to look at the transom of one a lot. A couple of brothers hit the local (MN/WI) racing circuit. They are good racers (they passed me by with their Flying Scott more than once) but they got the Balboa because it was fairly fast but has a BIG handicap (something like a M15's!). It was fun to see the frustration level rise on the faces of the serious racers! I would think you could find a B20 in the $2-3K range. They do show up in Northern Breezes once in a while. Maybe the rest of you on the list can help out here: I understand the B20 was designed for use on San Fran Bay and the water line matches the wave length there (is this a myth?). I bet it would work on Chequamegan Bay if that is right. Speaking of Chequamegan Bay - I wanna go sailing!!! Glad to hear from you, Randy Palmer (suffering from winter doldrums) On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 rland@win.bright.net wrote: > Hi to all on the list. I've never posted to a list before so please > excuse any gaffes. Although I've never sailed a Montgomery, I'm an > admirer. In fact, Randy Palmer might remember me because I looked at > the M-23 he had for sale. I decided that a 23 was a bit more than I > could afford, and then never found another boat that I really liked. > Since then, I've acquired some real estate, so now everything's out of > my price range! (under $2000) This brings me to my question. > > I'm considering a Balboa 20 which is in my price range. I know, it's > not a Montgomery, but I thought that I could at least still sail a Lyle > Hess design. Has anyone here had one, sailed one, or does anyone have > any comments? I havent seen the actual boat yet, just the line drawing, > and my only thought was that there was an awful lot of unsupported > centerboard hanging down beneath the hull. But then I've never sailed > on anything with a centerboard, just full-keel boats, so maybe that's > normal. > > Hopefully none of you minds that I've asked a non-Montgomery question, > but I couldn't find a comparable list for Balboas. Actually, I'd love > an M17 - maybe when my budget is bigger. Thanks in advance for any > info. Rland > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi to all and a boat question Date: 06 Feb 1999 17:14:26 EST rland; I sail an Aquarious 23 with a centerboard(180lbs). I've had it in 40+ knots of wind on Lake Mead and have sailed her to Catalina Island 7 times with no problems. An old friend sailed his Balboa 20 to Catalina several years ago without incident. There's not much room on a 20 but they sail OK. Very shallow freeboard and a small cabin. A good value for the money. Maybe you can save up while sailing this boat. Good luck; Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi to all and a boat question Date: 06 Feb 1999 14:25:49 -0800 I don't know if you're aware of it, but the Balboa 20 and the Ensenada 20 are, as I understand it, the same hull with different deck and interior layouts, and with slightly different keel weights. Try http://www.mobynet.com/~cunruh/cliff.htm for Balboa 20 information. You might also contact Villy Madsen at vmadsen@shaw.wave.ca Villy has been running a low-key Ensenada 20 mailing group and will probably provide you with additional information. Just as a note - I understand that one or the other or both the B 20 and E20 had problems with water seepage into the cored deck, resulting in major repair/rebuild problems. Something to look out for. Hope this helps. Let me know how you come out on this. -- dwf -----Original Message----- >Hi to all on the list. I've never posted to a list before so please >excuse any gaffes. Although I've never sailed a Montgomery, I'm an >admirer. In fact, Randy Palmer might remember me because I looked at >the M-23 he had for sale. I decided that a 23 was a bit more than I >could afford, and then never found another boat that I really liked. >Since then, I've acquired some real estate, so now everything's out of >my price range! (under $2000) This brings me to my question. > >I'm considering a Balboa 20 which is in my price range. I know, it's >not a Montgomery, but I thought that I could at least still sail a Lyle >Hess design. Has anyone here had one, sailed one, or does anyone have >any comments? I haven't seen the actual boat yet, just the line drawing, >and my only thought was that there was an awful lot of unsupported >centerboard hanging down beneath the hull. But then I've never sailed >on anything with a centerboard, just full-keel boats, so maybe that's >normal. > >Hopefully none of you minds that I've asked a non-Montgomery question, >but I couldn't find a comparable list for Balboas. Actually, I'd love >an M17 - maybe when my budget is bigger. Thanks in advance for any >info. Rland > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 06 Feb 1999 16:57:14 -0600 Gary, Thanks for the reply. Sure, fax me some info on the 'Gull so I can get an idea of what this beast is. My fax # is: 612-721-5024. Thankee-thankee. Bones ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder mod Date: 06 Feb 1999 16:48:40 -0600 Hi Jim, Thanks for the input. I am having a carpenter friend build me a kick-up rudder. He is copying the original, then we are going to fashion it so it will fold in the middle. I will use stainless cheek plates for it to hinge against. I have a slip for the '99 summer season on Waconia. Hope to see you out there! I'm sure Rick will also be there with his M17 "Old Yeller". Think spring. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dick Allgire Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi to all and a boat question Date: 06 Feb 1999 16:24:30 -0700 >Hi to all on the list. I've never posted to a list before so please >excuse any gaffes. Although I've never sailed a Montgomery, I'm an >admirer. In fact, Randy Palmer might remember me because I looked at >the M-23 he had for sale. I decided that a 23 was a bit more than I >could afford, and then never found another boat that I really liked. >Since then, I've acquired some real estate, so now everything's out of >my price range! (under $2000) This brings me to my question. > >I'm considering a Balboa 20 which is in my price range. I know, it's >not a Montgomery, but I thought that I could at least still sail a Lyle >Hess design. Has anyone here had one, sailed one, or does anyone have >any comments? I havent seen the actual boat yet, just the line drawing, >and my only thought was that there was an awful lot of unsupported >centerboard hanging down beneath the hull. But then I've never sailed >on anything with a centerboard, just full-keel boats, so maybe that's >normal. > >Hopefully none of you minds that I've asked a non-Montgomery question, >but I couldn't find a comparable list for Balboas. Actually, I'd love >an M17 - maybe when my budget is bigger. Thanks in advance for any >info. Rland I traded an Ensenada 20 (same hull as a Balboa 20( for my M-17 becauwse I was tired of sailing my Ensenada and having a M-17 sailk rings around me....and I never for a single moment regretted the switch...the M-17 if a far superior boat...doesn't have quite the cabin space that y9ou would have in the Balboa but I'll when it turns nasty out there the M-17 is by far the better boat...and in light airs the M-17 will always be ahead of the Balboa. ,,,just no camparison beyond cabin space. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 jib Date: 06 Feb 1999 17:13:11 -0800 Randy, I believe that the later 15's came with reef points in the jib. Steve > I was planning on having a storm jib made this Spring. Someone > mentioned to me about having reef points put in the standard jib. > Is this practical and was wondering if anyone had done that. > > Randy W > M15#194 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi to all and a boat question Date: 06 Feb 1999 17:39:27 -0800 Rland, My first boat as an adult was a Balboa 20. They were made by Arthur Marine, the Coastal. My boat was heavily modified by a fellow who sailed it offshore here in Oregon. The rig was significantly beefed, and the cabin layout had been modified. I never really got to know the boat, but felt that it was well made. If the keel is locked down (thru bolt), there should be no problems. I sold my Balboa because I kept it on the trailer, and the extra rig was a pain to deal with. I can get the M15 in the water in about 10 minutes. The Balboa took an hour. I would not be afraid of a Balboa in good shape. Steve >Hi to all on the list. I've never posted to a list before so please >excuse any gaffes. Although I've never sailed a Montgomery, I'm an >admirer. In fact, Randy Palmer might remember me because I looked at >the M-23 he had for sale. I decided that a 23 was a bit more than I >could afford, and then never found another boat that I really liked. >Since then, I've acquired some real estate, so now everything's out of >my price range! (under $2000) This brings me to my question. > >I'm considering a Balboa 20 which is in my price range. I know, it's >not a Montgomery, but I thought that I could at least still sail a Lyle >Hess design. Has anyone here had one, sailed one, or does anyone have >any comments? I havent seen the actual boat yet, just the line drawing, >and my only thought was that there was an awful lot of unsupported >centerboard hanging down beneath the hull. But then I've never sailed >on anything with a centerboard, just full-keel boats, so maybe that's >normal. > >Hopefully none of you minds that I've asked a non-Montgomery question, >but I couldn't find a comparable list for Balboas. Actually, I'd love >an M17 - maybe when my budget is bigger. Thanks in advance for any >info. Rland > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 06 Feb 1999 21:01:46 -0500 Hi gary... Specs on most Seagulls can be found on www.britishseagull.com and minard= 's site in Australia. Don't have minard's site address, but Excite or Yahoo should be able to find it. He's also a Yanmar dealer so that might help as well. Minards has specs on the new (US style) Seagulls as well. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: Hi to all and a boat question Date: 07 Feb 1999 15:56:44 CST re: launching time Steve you ,entioned it tales a few minuted for you to launch your M15. Is that including set uo, rigging, etc from a trailer? It's taking me about 30+ for mine. I could use your speedo tips. Randy W, M15 #194 _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Rland, My first boat as an adult was a Balboa 20. They were made by Arthur Marine, the Coastal. My boat was heavily modified by a fellow who sailed it offshore here in Oregon. The rig was significantly beefed, and the cabin layout had been modified. I never really got to know the boat, but felt that it was well made. If the keel is locked down (thru bolt), there should be no problems. I sold my Balboa because I kept it on the trailer, and the extra rig was a pain to deal with. I can get the M15 in the water in about 10 minutes. The Balboa took an hour. I would not be afraid of a Balboa in good shape. Steve >Hi to all on the list. I've never posted to a list before so please >excuse any gaffes. Although I've never sailed a Montgomery, I'm an >admirer. In fact, Randy Palmer might remember me because I looked at >the M-23 he had for sale. I decided that a 23 was a bit more than I >could afford, and then never found another boat that I really liked. >Since then, I've acquired some real estate, so now everything's out of >my price range! (under $2000) This brings me to my question. > >I'm considering a Balboa 20 which is in my price range. I know, it's >not a Montgomery, but I thought that I could at least still sail a Lyle >Hess design. Has anyone here had one, sailed one, or does anyone have >any comments? I havent seen the actual boat yet, just the line drawing, >and my only thought was that there was an awful lot of unsupported >centerboard hanging down beneath the hull. But then I've never sailed >on anything with a centerboard, just full-keel boats, so maybe that's >normal. > >Hopefully none of you minds that I've asked a non-Montgomery question, >but I couldn't find a comparable list for Balboas. Actually, I'd love >an M17 - maybe when my budget is bigger. Thanks in advance for any >info. Rland > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefing Date: 07 Feb 1999 20:05:54 -0500 Bill, Re-topping lift: I mounted a small block at the top of the mast - had to add a small spacer so that the block wouldn't chafe on the main halyard - but now I have a dacron line from the boom end via the masthead block down the mast to the starboard cleat on the mast. Makes life very simple when you can adjust your topping lift whenever you need to. On my ComPac, the provious owner had a fixed topping lift with two snap shackles at the boom end, so that you could adjust the boom height as desired. The infinitely adjustable one is the way to go. Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: cushions Date: 07 Feb 1999 20:32:52 -0500 Francene, I raised the question about cockpit cushions for the M-15 last year and got a lot of inputs from the gang. Before going overboard and getting or making fitting cushions for the M-15 I decided to live with it for a summer to know what I want and why I want it. So, I took our old porch chair seat cushions along when we went sailing on Lake Champlain. These were fabric covered 1" thick plastic foam cushions and about 4 feet long (seat plus back rest). As far as my wife and I are concerned, they work fine. When she stretches out, we put two on top of each other, and they are very comfortable. I double them up and sit on them while sailing - also works well. Another advantage for these thin ones is that they don't take up much room in the cabin when stowed. I find the minimum cost solution to work very well for our kinds of sailing, however, if you are going to be out where things are going to get very wet, - rain; spray or waves, then proper water proof cushions probably are a better approach. Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 07 Feb 1999 20:48:49 -0500 Bones The Seagull outboard is 1940 tractor technology. It is British: has a single cylinder; a big low speed prop designed for thrust, not speed, and can be totally disassembled and reassembled in the cockpit of your boat with a very minimum of tools. My first outboard was an Evinrude 2 HP that I used on a Dyer dink. The problem was that every time the motor wouldn't run, you had to remove the whole cowling of the Evinrude to get at the carburetor. The Dyer caused a lot of my problems with water burbling up at the stern and once salt water got on the high tension wire to the spark plug, she quit. So, I solved my problem by buying a Seagull. The Seagull has everything hanging out in plain sight so that you can check if you are getting fuel from the tank to the carburetor; the carburetor has a button on it that you can depress so that you "know" that you have fuel in the carburetor; points are accessible under a plate on top of the flywheel, in short, you can trouble shoot it in seconds, and fix it in minutes. The other side of the coin is that it requires about a 20:1 gas to oil mixture that makes everything very oily: it is fairly heavy: it is loud (compared to modern engines); but that is a small price to pay for total reliability. Of course, now that I have a 2 HP 4 cycle Honda for my M-15, I'm totally spoiled. It is quiet, and reliable, and the innards are totally accessible due to excellent design. But, if I didn't have the bucks for a Honda; and know my way around the idiocyncrasies of 2 cycle engines, then the Seagull is my choice, simply because it is so easy to diagnose and to fix. Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 07 Feb 1999 19:08:38 -0800 Connie, You old salt, I agree with you two out of three... 1. My M-15 has a fixed wired topping lift to which I added two clips; one positioned so the topping lift is slack while sailing and one for holding the boom up when necessary. My other boat had a topping lift like you describe, only the line ran through a block at the base of the mast and back to a cleat on the cabin top. That way, all lines could be tended from the safety of the hatch or cockpit. I considered the adjustable topping lift to be much safer and easier to handle and intend to make the conversion on Poco. 2. I have the factory cockpit cushions. They are a mixed blessing. They comfort my backside and my wife likes stretching out like a cat to sun, but they don't always stay where you want them and they are a pain to stow. I usually stow them on edge along the sides of the cabin. I'm going to try my wife's Crazy Creek pad. It might pad the middle of my back against the bruises that appear after a hard day of leaning back in the cockpit. 3. Thank heaven Seagull outboards are easy to work on. As far as I'm concerned, especially with the early models, that is their ownly saving grace. Mine required constant attention and was never reliable. There were many times when I felt the only appropriate tool for a Seagull was a sledge hammer. Regarding new hatch covers, I am in the middle of replacing the ragged plywood panels which came with my boat. I bought some mahogany plywood, but didn't like the end result -- especially all the voids along the edge -- so I scrapped the mahogany. I found a product called European or Finnish Birch Plywood, which has nine plies in 1/2-inch ply and has a superior glue (fewer green manufacturing regulations overseas) and no voids in the plies. I think the birch will stain to look like teak and I'm certain the quality of the finished product will be better. I also bought a teak louvered insert to replace the old round plastic port. Sure, I could have bought teak ply if I wanted to buy a 4 x 8 sheet at a cost just under $200. (Ouch! At that price, the birch ply will do just fine, thank you.) I am also in the process of replacing the keel rollers on my trailer. I did the job last summer but made the mistake of buying rubber rollers. One of them has already split from the weight. This time I bought the polyurethane rollers, hoping they will last longer. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Haas Subject: Re: M_Boats: cushions Date: 07 Feb 1999 19:55:11 -0800 Yet one more idea for cockpit cushions. I bought a 72" x 30", closed cell, egg crate camping pad then cut it in half lengthwise. It works pretty good.. It stores easily. roll it up - put a rubber band around it and toss into the cabin. Closed cell won't absorb water so I didn't bother wit a covering and it was cheap - about $12. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 08 Feb 1999 01:17:39 EST do you still have a seagull...do you have a repair manual??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 08 Feb 1999 08:19:23 CST Connie ditto on the Honda 2 HP I traded off my Evinrude 3.2 for it and am amazed at the difference. I couldn't quite trust the Evinrude as she just wouldn't start from time to time. I'd take it in get it fixed and hope for the best. The Honda is quite and the quality is evident. Randy W ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Bones The Seagull outboard is 1940 tractor technology. It is British: has a single cylinder; a big low speed prop designed for thrust, not speed, and can be totally disassembled and reassembled in the cockpit of your boat with a very minimum of tools. My first outboard was an Evinrude 2 HP that I used on a Dyer dink. The problem was that every time the motor wouldn't run, you had to remove the whole cowling of the Evinrude to get at the carburetor. The Dyer caused a lot of my problems with water burbling up at the stern and once salt water got on the high tension wire to the spark plug, she quit. So, I solved my problem by buying a Seagull. The Seagull has everything hanging out in plain sight so that you can check if you are getting fuel from the tank to the carburetor; the carburetor has a button on it that you can depress so that you "know" that you have fuel in the carburetor; points are accessible under a plate on top of the flywheel, in short, you can trouble shoot it in seconds, and fix it in minutes. The other side of the coin is that it requires about a 20:1 gas to oil mixture that makes everything very oily: it is fairly heavy: it is loud (compared to modern engines); but that is a small price to pay for total reliability. Of course, now that I have a 2 HP 4 cycle Honda for my M-15, I'm totally spoiled. It is quiet, and reliable, and the innards are totally accessible due to excellent design. But, if I didn't have the bucks for a Honda; and know my way around the idiocyncrasies of 2 cycle engines, then the Seagull is my choice, simply because it is so easy to diagnose and to fix. Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: Launching Date: 08 Feb 1999 07:57:31 -0800 It takes me 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour from the time I arrive at the parking area until I'm ready to launch "Really". The most time consuming preparation relates to the mast, boom, sails, and sheets. How long should this process take- really? Any helpful hints to trim minutes off the time it takes to prepare the boat for launching will be appreciated. I find this process to be the major drawback to trailer sailing. Thank's, Rich M15 #288 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: Launching Date: 08 Feb 1999 10:06:45 -0600 That time plus the hook-up time at the house (and un-hooking later) plus the fact that I have to drive slow in the worst lanes on the interstate (the right lane) plus the fact that I cannot just pop off and go sailing anytime I get the urge are why MY trailor sailor M-17 "Peeper" stays in a slip "ready to go". The Montgomery's (17's that I know about) are so stout and solid that it is not possible to just pop the mast up, clip a thingy and launch. You have to set up this heavy mast, attach this serious boom, hank on these "real" sails. Just like a big boat. That is why I love my Montgomery, It is just like a big boat , only smaller. Brian Weir -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 9:58 AM It takes me 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour from the time I arrive at the parking area until I'm ready to launch "Really". The most time consuming preparation relates to the mast, boom, sails, and sheets. How long should this process take- really? Any helpful hints to trim minutes off the time it takes to prepare the boat for launching will be appreciated. I find this process to be the major drawback to trailer sailing. Thank's, Rich M15 #288 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Launching Date: 08 Feb 1999 09:30:17 -0800 Rich, It consistently takes me 25-30 minutes from the time I arrive until the boat is in the water. Retrieving the boat and preparation for leaving is the same amount of time. I should add that I'm a solo sailor so no outside assistance is used. Dan M15 #384 -----Original Message----- >It takes me 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour from the time I arrive at the >parking area until I'm >ready to launch "Really". The most time consuming preparation relates >to the mast, >boom, sails, and sheets. How long should this process take- really? > >Any helpful hints to trim minutes off the time it takes to prepare the >boat for launching >will be appreciated. I find this process to be the major drawback to >trailer sailing. > > >Thank's, > >Rich >M15 #288 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 08 Feb 1999 10:14:39 -0800 > do you still have a seagull...do you have a repair manual??? NO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Launching Date: 08 Feb 1999 22:39:01 -0500 Rich, From my experience, your launch times are just right. From my limited experience, I figure 30 minutes to rig, then 10-15 more to launch, park, and walk back to the boat. Then back to the car for whatever I forgot, then back to the boat... with a stop at the rest room. And that's alone, without anyone getting underfoot. Also, related to conversations a while ago, it never ocurred to me to mount the rudder before launching. That's a good thing. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 08 Feb 1999 23:00:03 -0500 Hi Connie... >>and know my way around the = idiocyncrasies of 2 cycle engines, then the Seagull is my choice, simply = because it is so easy to diagnose and to fix.<<< One of the main reasons that I decided to get a Seagull...aside from the fact that I've always wanted one. The 8hp Evinrude that came with Stargazer is tempermental, and when it's cooling system died, it cost me almost as much as a new small engine to have repaired. = MO Marine, et al wanted much $$$ for a refurbed Seagull ($500-700) with t= he recoil starter model being the more expensive. I got mine (big, older Silver Century F-N clutch) from a collector very reasonably. Had a cyberfriend from England send me the Whitworth tools ( = 3 wrenches & a socket) for a bit more then one Snap-on would have cost me. = Also have the shop, parts and oners manuals. = As to weight...the 'Rude Yachtwin is over 60 lbs (plus tank), while the b= ig Century is about 45 lbs with the big 1 gal. tank. It's 6hp, which I don'= t need, but the price was right. I'd love to find the Cerlew, the last of the old style made. 4hp, F-N-R, recoil starter, twist grip throttle, quieter design, 50-1 oil mix....probably over $800 if you can find it. = Harvey/ Ga = M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Launching Date: 08 Feb 1999 22:36:29 -0800 >it never ocurred to me to mount the rudder before launching. That's a good thing. Bill, Mounting the rudder before launching is a good thing. I've always launched that way. But make sure the rudder doesn't fall down while maneuvering on dry land. It can do major damage to the finish, the wood, the rudder fitting, or worse. I learned that lesson the hard way, proving once again that most of us didn't get smart by doing it right every time. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 Poco A Poco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ed florence Subject: M_Boats: topping lift again Date: 09 Feb 1999 11:10:44 -0800 (PST) Another thought on topping lifts; Besides getting the boom out of the way while motoring and making reefing much easier, a topping lift allows you to rig a boom tent while at anchor. Quite handy for cooking in the rain! Peace, Ed M-15 #342 "Whistle" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: M_Boats: fish Date: 09 Feb 1999 15:48:29 -0800 (PST) OK, so it does not have anything to do with boats, but check out Sparky the fish, then let me know how they do it. Bob M15 #208 http://members.tripod.com/~andybauch/trick.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: Re: M_Boats: fish Date: 09 Feb 1999 16:17:53 +0000 Bob ALL the cards change. Not just the one you pick. Robert Becker wrote: > OK, so it does not have anything to do with boats, but check out Sparky the > fish, then let me know how they do it. > > Bob > M15 #208 > > http://members.tripod.com/~andybauch/trick.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: fish Date: 09 Feb 1999 16:28:29 -0800 Bob, That was an easy one. None of the original 5 cards appear in the second presentation. Dan -----Original Message----- >OK, so it does not have anything to do with boats, but check out Sparky the >fish, then let me know how they do it. > >Bob >M15 #208 > >http://members.tripod.com/~andybauch/trick.html > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mills" Subject: Re: M_Boats: fish Date: 09 Feb 1999 20:43:38 PST I've got it, Bob......*L*..... I don't want to spoil it for the others, so I'll wait a day to tell you..= .. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "mills" Subject: Re: M_Boats: fish Date: 09 Feb 1999 20:45:00 PST Hey!.....so much for not spoiling it for you, Bob......I'm glad I went straight there after reading your message....*LOL* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 09 Feb 1999 20:27:00 -0500 Harvey, I got my first Seagull at a Tag Sale. The previous owner had backed into a slip and hit a rock cracking the gearbox housing. I got it for a "very" reasonable figure, and it didn't take me long to get a spare part and have it operational. The trouble was, that I wanted it for my Dyer dinghy, and this was the 4 HP with F-N and far more motor than I needed. As luck would have it, I latched on to a 2 HP Seagull that had the flywheel bolt sheared off. An evenings work at a friend's machine shop, and it was as good as new. I dearly loved the little rascal: it always ran - I only had to remember not to whip my wife with the starting cord. She took a rather negative view to that. But when you compare it with the Honda 2 HP 4 cycle, man, progress sure has done been made. The Honda is totally reliable, and quiet. Yep, today, I'll take the Honda! Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 09 Feb 1999 20:13:48 -0500 Joe, When you own a Seagull outboard you have to have Whitworth wrenches, which I happened to still have in my tool box from my days repairing British sports cars: MGs, Austin-Healeys, and Mini-Coopers. I also was well acquainted with the idiocyncrasies of British carburettors, so, we got along well together. Perhaps your problem was that you were trying to run the engine outside the British temperature envelope. In the UK cars are designed to work between 32 degrees F and 75 degrees F. Any lower or higher and you've got trouble! Companionway hatch boards: As I told you my bottom one was delaminating and badly needed replacement. I drove to Boston and bought a half sheet of teak plywood to make new ones. When I got home and examined them carefully, I found that the teak on both surfaces was about 1/32 inch thick, and the middle was something else, not teak! So, you have the right approach. Use the Baltic birch plywood and stain it. The cost will be considerably less, and the result should be great. I bought a teak louver from West Marine and installed in in the top hatch board to get some ventilation in the cabin. Had to do a bit of cutting - the louver was thicker than the hatch board - the the end result is great. I am quite happy with my "skinny" porch chair cushions as cockpit cushions. One on top of another makes for good snoozing comfort for my wife, while folding the ends in to the middle makes a good seat and backrest for the helmsman. ....and it stows easily. Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rland@win.bright.net Subject: M_Boats: still shopping Date: 09 Feb 1999 21:41:33 -0600 Thanks to all on the list who replied with information on the Balboa 20. I was all set to drive to Kentucky this weekend to check it out, but after receiving the photographs in the mail, I don't think I'm going to. The boat looked to be in good condition, but the looks of it just didn't appeal to me. I guess I was spoiled by looking at (the former) "Aggie," (M-17) which used to have the slip next to mine at the local marina. Gee, now I've got time off from work and no boat to go look at :-( If anyone knows of any reasonably-priced M-17s... By the way, I boat on Lake Superior, for the most part, since I live right by it, and don't have a vehicle that's up to trailering. Currently, I have a Bolger Microtrawler (previously lived 15 miles upstream from the Duluth harbor, and had a dock there, so it was a little too far to get to the harbor to go sailing...), but after taking a few sails with friends, am getting hooked on that magical moment when the motor is shut off and the sails raised - although I may be a little too used the Microtrawler's interior space. Well, I'm sure I could adjust... I've been reading the archives, and you all sound like such a friendly group - that alone makes me want an M-boat. I've noticed that there seem to be quite a few midwestern members, too. Hope I haven't gotten too long-winded here -- rland ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: fish Date: 09 Feb 1999 20:37:55 -0800 (PST) This is a tough group, hard to put one over on anyone; but then, perhaps everyone who did not respond was fooled, too. Bob M15 #208 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: still shopping Date: 10 Feb 1999 08:34:43 -0800 rland@win.bright.net wrote: > > Thanks to all on the list who replied with information on the Balboa > 20. I was all set to drive to Kentucky this weekend to check it out, > but after receiving the photographs in the mail, I don't think I'm going > to. The boat looked to be in good condition, but the looks of it just > didn't appeal to me. I guess I was spoiled by looking at (the former) > "Aggie," (M-17) which used to have the slip next to mine at the local > marina. > > Gee, now I've got time off from work and no boat to go look at :-( If > anyone knows of any reasonably-priced M-17s... > Rland, There are a few M17s on the internet that I've come across looking for a M15. There are 2 at Sailingbreezes.com and 1 at everythingboats.com. All are in the Midwest US as it sounds you are. Hope that gets you started; maybe something to look at on your day off. Good luck, Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mclain, Mac" Subject: RE: M_Boats: still shopping Date: 10 Feb 1999 09:35:07 -0800 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:35 AM > ---------- > From: Francene Lebowitz[SMTP:DLEBOWITZ@SPRINTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:34:43 AM > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: still shopping > Auto forwarded by a Rule > rland@win.bright.net wrote: > > Thanks to all on the list who replied with information on the Balboa > 20. I was all set to drive to Kentucky this weekend to check it out, > but after receiving the photographs in the mail, I don't think I'm going > to. The boat looked to be in good condition, but the looks of it just > didn't appeal to me. I guess I was spoiled by looking at (the former) > "Aggie," (M-17) which used to have the slip next to mine at the local > marina. > > Gee, now I've got time off from work and no boat to go look at :-( If > anyone knows of any reasonably-priced M-17s... > Rland, There are a few M17s on the internet that I've come across looking for a M15. There are 2 at Sailingbreezes.com and 1 at everythingboats.com. All are in the Midwest US as it sounds you are. Hope that gets you started; maybe something to look at on your day off. Good luck, Fran Fran do you live on the west coast? I put a wanted looking for a M15 Saturday 2 or three weeks ago and got 5 replys. I went down to Oakland last week and picked up Breeze M-380. Mac ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: archive index Date: 10 Feb 1999 11:46:23 -0700 I've just learned of a service that will provide a search engine for our archives. It sounds really hot to me but it also means that anyone could search our archives and see email addresses. (which they can do now from my web page, but that address is not well publicized) There's a chance you could receive more spam as a result. Read the privacy statement at listquest for their take on it. http://www.listquest.com/common/privacy.html. Info on the search engine can be found at http://www.listquest.com/. I want everyone to have an opportunity to comment before signing us up, so let me know if you're in favor of the idea or not. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mclain, Mac" Subject: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 10 Feb 1999 11:59:57 -0800 Hi. Does anyone have a picture of their trailer extention for M15 or M17. I just got my M15 Breeze #380 and see a need to add an extention. The boat and trailer went over the scale at 1250 lbs. and thats seems a little high. Has anyone else weight there boat and trailer and is that about norm for a M15. I have planned to tow it to the Columbia about 15 miles with a little Honda Civic that weight about 1800 lbs and wonder about a 750 lbs. boat and 500 lbs.trailer. Also what will it be like on the ramp with that close of weight. I brought it home from Oakland behind a small RV but backing that up is almost a imposability , because you can hardly see it and just a little too much turning and it is off in an instant. Any help or thaught on the subject or poctures would be greatly apreciated. Mac. mac.mclain@nike.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 10 Feb 1999 15:09:41 -0500 >I have planned to tow it to the Columbia about 15 miles with >a little Honda Civic (You should have received another message from me with a JPEG of a trailer tongue extension attached - let me know if it doesn't arrive) I have towed my M-15 with a large car (hardly know it's there), and with my 1987 Golf GL that should be somewhat comparable to a Civic. The furthest I have gone with the Golf is a flat 150 miles, and it was definitely good exercise for the VW. OTOH, 15 miles isn't far (assuming there are no major verticals in the way). The issue at the ramp will be traction rather than power. I wouldn't worry about it. Giles Morris M-15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: archive index Date: 10 Feb 1999 13:28:41 -0800 Sounds worthwhile to me. Dick M23 Sadhana Keith Diehl wrote: > I've just learned of a service that will provide a search engine > for our archives. It sounds really hot to me but it also means > that anyone could search our archives and see email addresses. > (which they can do now from my web page, but that address is not > well publicized) There's a chance you could receive more spam as > a result. Read the privacy statement at listquest for their take > on it. http://www.listquest.com/common/privacy.html. > > Info on the search engine can be found at > http://www.listquest.com/. > > I want everyone to have an opportunity to comment before signing > us up, so let me know if you're in favor of the idea or not. > > Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City > http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 10 Feb 1999 14:04:37 -0800 Mac, Welcome to Montgomery joy of ownership. 1250+/- pounds sounds about right, especially if that weight includes an outboard, sails, anchor, lines and a few other extras. I tow and launch my M-15 with an 88' Isuzu Trooper (4 cylinders, manual transmission, 120 hp) without a tongue extension and have never had any trouble. Occasionally (make that seldom) I put it in 4WD for extra traction. I've always been more concerned about stopping power than pulling power. Don't get in a hurry, gear down on grades and (if possible) allow plenty of room when braking. A lot of RV'ers have trouble backing their boats. They solve the problem by adding a ball hitch to the front bumper which is used while launching. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 Poco A Poco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jslubliner@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: archive index Date: 10 Feb 1999 18:37:36 EST no problem here - M-17 FD Coyote #69 - Tucson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: topping lift again Date: 10 Feb 1999 19:47:19 EST Something to remember on a small boat. The more fittings and weight that is aloft, the more instability you have in some wind. A topping lift that goes from the boom to the mast top and back down has twice the weight and windage aloft as well as a block at the masthead. If you run 3/32nd vinyl coated wire from the mast top down to a small block about a foot to 15" above the boom, and then run 1/4" dacron line from the boom end through the block and back to the boom through a turning block and then forward to a clam cleat on the boom, you have reduced the weight and windage aloft. The vinyl coating protects the main from chafe while sailing. the clam cleat makes adjustments possible from the cockpit. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 10 Feb 1999 22:37:14 -0500 A seagull manual can be bought from www.sailorman.com Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 10 Feb 1999 22:37:11 -0500 Hi Connie... >>>In the UK cars are designed to work between 32 degrees F and 75 degree= s F. Any lower or higher and you've got trouble!<<< Grrooannn...does this mean that I still gotta keep that heavy 'Rude for summer use...it gets into the 90's here in the summer !!! Harvey/ Ga = M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: Launching Date: 10 Feb 1999 22:37:14 -0500 It tales about 30 minutes to rig or unrig Stargazer . The Admiral assis= ts with mast raising/lowering, using the line that I attached to the foresta= y. I do all the rest. Rudder is attached and fastened in the raised position, I back it to the water's edge, then the Admiral does the final launching/retrieve with me = in the boat. = I start the motor, move off the trailer, then pick her up at the dock aft= er she parks the car/trailer. Move out to open water, raise the sails (5 min??) and we're off for the day. Backing the trailer down the ramp is the hardest thing we do. Harvey/ Ga = M-17 Stargazer #294 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: M_Boats: British Products Date: 10 Feb 1999 19:49:23 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE552E.750E98A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CONNIE LUCAS AKA "GOD OF DARKNESS" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE552E.750E98A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
CONNIE
 
LUCAS AKA "GOD OF=20 DARKNESS"
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE552E.750E98A0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Fell Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 10 Feb 1999 20:52:00 -0800 Mclain, Mac wrote: > > Hi. Does anyone have a picture of their trailer extention for M15 or M17. I > just got my M15 Breeze #380 and see a need to add an extention. The boat and > trailer went over the scale at 1250 lbs. and thats seems a little high. Has > anyone else weight there boat and trailer and is that about norm for a M15. > I have planned to tow it to the Columbia about 15 miles with a little Honda > Civic that weight about 1800 lbs and wonder about a 750 lbs. boat and 500 > lbs.trailer. Also what will it be like on the ramp with that close of > weight. I brought it home from Oakland behind a small RV but backing that up > is almost a imposability , because you can hardly see it and just a little > too much turning and it is off in an instant. Any help or thaught on the > subject or poctures would be greatly apreciated. Mac. mac.mclain@nike.com I put my M15 into the ocean here in southern california with a toyota corolla. I don't think it's much larger, if at all, then your civic. I haven't had any problems. I really don't tow the boat anywhere, but up and down the ramp. good luck to you. Try a test drive before you comit to a longer trip. John M15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 11 Feb 1999 00:24:10 EST I have a seagull and manual. Model 110 6 hp long shaft,long range tank, FNR,as in transmission -full, hydro fan prop, recoil starter, approx 4:1 reduction gearcase. Service manual covers all incl. the new cobbled up model ( does burn cleaner though). gilasailr@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 11 Feb 1999 00:27:51 EST I was in the sailboat business for 32+ years and whenever someone 'gave' me an Evinrude 2 hp I screamed! IMHO the lamest (almost) OB made! The 4 is probably IMHO the BEST. no one is perfect. gilasailr@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Walter" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 11 Feb 1999 00:55:38 -0500 Mac, Your trailer and the Civic should do allright over short distances and at low speeds, but you will need to watch your braking -- i.e. -- brake early and often. As the proud owner of a new trailer, I have some educational literature at my fingertips. Here in Florida, trailer brakes are required by law if the trailer gross weight equals or exceeds 40 percent of the tow vehicle weight. Since yours is going to be pushing 70 percent, you will be asking a lot of the Civic's brakes. Enjoy, Bob -----Original Message----- >Hi. Does anyone have a picture of their trailer extention for M15 or M17. I >just got my M15 Breeze #380 and see a need to add an extention. The boat and >trailer went over the scale at 1250 lbs. and thats seems a little high. Has >anyone else weight there boat and trailer and is that about norm for a M15. >I have planned to tow it to the Columbia about 15 miles with a little Honda >Civic that weight about 1800 lbs and wonder about a 750 lbs. boat and 500 >lbs.trailer. Also what will it be like on the ramp with that close of >weight. I brought it home from Oakland behind a small RV but backing that up >is almost a imposability , because you can hardly see it and just a little >too much turning and it is off in an instant. Any help or thaught on the >subject or poctures would be greatly apreciated. Mac. mac.mclain@nike.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: topping lift again Date: 10 Feb 1999 22:53:55 -0800 Sandy, Splendiferous idea! Thank you. Now all I have to add is some tackle at the bottom of my existing wire topping lift and extend a line to a cleat about mid-boom. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 Poco A Poco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 10 Feb 1999 23:06:43 -0800 Connie, I didn't know they made Whitworth sledge hammers... Do MGs still come with a standard oil drip tray for the garage floor? Joe > When you own a Seagull outboard you have to have Whitworth wrenches, > which I happened to still have in my tool box from my days repairing > British sports cars: MGs, Austin-Healeys, and Mini-Coopers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: Re: M_Boats: archive index Date: 11 Feb 1999 07:20:28 -0500 Great Idea Robert Rubey M17 Ruby Moon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Nichols Subject: M_Boats: Too Much Date: 11 Feb 1999 7:29:16 EST Please UNSUBSCRIBE. I am also one who has enjoyed the Montgomery Bulletin Board for over two years and in the past found 90% of the information useful and might get 5 to 10 notices a day. But now I find less than half of the messages contain useful information and I receive twenty or more messages a day. I never use chat rooms but see this continue to go in that direction. I want to thank Keith for maintaining the board and Harvey, Giles, Doug, Gary, Jerry, and Bob for there useful information over the years. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "L. Ingalls" Subject: Re: M_Boats: archive index Date: 11 Feb 1999 06:37:43 -0800 Keith, Shorty after I signed on this list, I downloaded the archives (wonderful stuff). I use the windows search engine for finding specific information. Thanks again for the great list. Lee M15 #326 Puppy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 11 Feb 1999 10:04:54 EST where does one purchase whitworth tools to work on a seagull??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: British Products Date: 11 Feb 1999 10:50:33 -0800 Right on, we Brits use to refer to the Seagull as the Seacow. Dick Dan Diehlman wrote: > CONNIE LUCAS AKA "GOD OF DARKNESS" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 11 Feb 1999 10:54:21 -0800 Ask at your local MG/Triumph sports car garage. I bought mine to work on my Norton at Sears, but that was in 1965. Dick Grove777@aol.com wrote: > where does one purchase whitworth tools to work on a seagull??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mclain, Mac" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 11 Feb 1999 11:05:44 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: Morris, Giles [mailto:giles.morris@unisys.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:10 PM > To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention > > > > > ---------- > > From: Morris, Giles[SMTP:GILES.MORRIS@UNISYS.COM] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:09:41 PM > > To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com' > > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention > > Auto forwarded by a Rule > > > >I have planned to tow it to the Columbia about 15 miles with > >a little Honda Civic > > (You should have received another message from me with a JPEG of a trailer > tongue extension attached - let me know if it doesn't arrive) > I have towed my M-15 with a large car (hardly know it's there), and with > my 1987 Golf GL that should be somewhat comparable to a Civic. The > furthest I have gone with the Golf is a flat 150 miles, and it was > definitely good exercise for the VW. OTOH, 15 miles isn't far (assuming > there are no major verticals in the way). The issue at the ramp will be > traction rather than power. I wouldn't worry about it. > Giles Morris > M-15 #264 "Umiaq" > Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin > Thanks, I got your picture and had one more question. How long did you make your extention for your M-15. Mac Portland ,Oregon M-15 #380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 11 Feb 1999 14:10:20 -0500 I think that the main section of tubing was about eight feet - that was what I found in the off-cuts box at the local steel supplier. It's worked well. I'll check the length tonight. Giles -----Original Message----- From: Mclain, Mac [mailto:Mac.Mclain@nike.com] Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 2:06 PM To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention > -----Original Message----- > From: Morris, Giles [mailto:giles.morris@unisys.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:10 PM > To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention > > > > > ---------- > > From: Morris, Giles[SMTP:GILES.MORRIS@UNISYS.COM] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:09:41 PM > > To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com' > > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer extention > > Auto forwarded by a Rule > > > >I have planned to tow it to the Columbia about 15 miles with > >a little Honda Civic > > (You should have received another message from me with a JPEG of a trailer > tongue extension attached - let me know if it doesn't arrive) > I have towed my M-15 with a large car (hardly know it's there), and with > my 1987 Golf GL that should be somewhat comparable to a Civic. The > furthest I have gone with the Golf is a flat 150 miles, and it was > definitely good exercise for the VW. OTOH, 15 miles isn't far (assuming > there are no major verticals in the way). The issue at the ramp will be > traction rather than power. I wouldn't worry about it. > Giles Morris > M-15 #264 "Umiaq" > Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin > Thanks, I got your picture and had one more question. How long did you make your extention for your M-15. Mac Portland ,Oregon M-15 #380 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: archive index Date: 11 Feb 1999 18:53:46 -0600 Keith, I would go for the search engine idea to sort through the listings. IMHO, wouldn't that save a lot of time for a person searching for a specific subject? Kudos on the list BTW. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jslubliner@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: British Products Date: 11 Feb 1999 19:56:00 EST Agreed. Once I got the extra oil out of mine, it made a great anchor. Hard to store on deck, but it held well enough once down. Coyote in Tucson. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Walter" Subject: M_Boats: whitworth tools Date: 11 Feb 1999 22:09:59 -0500 see http://www.hoskingcycle.com/Cat_Pages/catalog_page_32.htm WHITWORTH TOOLS... A must for working on pre-1967 British bikes. Whitworth Combination sets: High Quality Acesa brand (Spain) 7 piece set: 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, & 1/2. Chrome Plated. . . . . .$64.95 WHITWORTH SOCKETS... Koken brand (Japan) 3/8" drive..8 Piece sets: 1/8 thru 9/16 excellent quality. . . . $54.95 (We have a fwe 5 piece sets left: inquire) from HOSKING Cycle Works 136 Hosking Lane Accord, NY 12404 You may phone,fax or email your order PHONE: PHONE ORDERS (ONLY): (800)-626-4231 QUESTIONS & INQUIRES: (914)-626-4231 FAX LINE (ONLY): (914)-626-3245 EMAIL: EMAIL: cycle@ulster.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: M_Boats: Sailing Simulatrs Date: 11 Feb 1999 19:59:20 -0800 (Potter list: sorry for the repost - the subject line on the first try was _reallly_ bad) Posted by Dennis Farrell - I thought this might be of interest to the list. I am looking for Sailing Simulators software package. Currently I am testing a download demo from Posey Yacht Design which can be found at http://www.poseysail.com. Does anyone known of a better simulator? Please advise me at Glen.Renk@airtouch.com Thank you ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hbkwant@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 11 Feb 1999 23:03:32 EST Connie or Randy, Does the Honda 2 have a Neutral? Sorry if I missed that on a previous posting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: British Products Date: 11 Feb 1999 23:22:38 -0500 >>> CONNIE LUCAS AKA "GOD OF DARKNESS"<<< Get it right " Lucas...Prince of Darkness"' Harvey/ Ga = M-17 Stargazer #294 ( w/ Seagull Silver Century Plus) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Honda 2 and neutral Date: 12 Feb 1999 03:20:25 EST In a message dated 2/12/99 4:16:00 AM, you wrote: <> The new Honda 2 is available either with or without a centrifugal clutch-t= ype neutral. The new 2 (1999 model) also has overhead valves and a larger fue= l tank. Reports suggest even better fuel economy than the previous version.= I have the previous model without neutral, and am generally happy with it. Scott Grometer, M15 #478, "b=E9b=E9" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Art Fuller" Subject: M_Boats: unsubscribe Date: 10 Feb 1999 17:14:29 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE5518.D1A24000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How do I go about unsubscribing to the list. The address that I had = seems to not work. I still have an m15, but I need to go off the list = when I am away or I get inundated Art Fuller ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE5518.D1A24000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How do I go about unsubscribing to = the list. The=20 address that I had seems to not work. I still have an m15, but I need to = go off=20 the list when I am away or I get inundated
Art = Fuller
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BE5518.D1A24000-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hbkwant@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda 2 and neutral Date: 12 Feb 1999 20:41:58 EST Once again, sorry if this was previously posted, but does the Honda 2 hp fit on the factory standard M15 mounting bracket? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: Honda 2 and neutral Date: 12 Feb 1999 23:12:00 CST mine does, the tilt back is a little more difficult than my Evinrude was but I made a wood dowel, drilled a small hole piece a small line and stays tied on and out of the way and it holds the engine up in the tilt back position ( simple & cheap ) some folks use a cord for the same. I think you'll like the Honda, start up is easy, no 2 cycle oil to mess with and they run quiet. regards Randy W. M15#194 _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Once again, sorry if this was previously posted, but does the Honda 2 hp fit on the factory standard M15 mounting bracket? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: archive index Date: 13 Feb 1999 08:45:31 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >service that will provide a search engine for our archives.< I don't see it as an advantage, I down load and use Microsoft's search functions. I have no objections either. Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Launching Date: 13 Feb 1999 08:45:27 -0500 Message text written by Rich M15 #288 >It takes me 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour from the time I arrive at the parking area until I'm ready to launch "Really".< If you really want to optimize the time on the water you might consider some of the following steps: 1. Keep the mast on the carriers on the trailer all the time. The mast w= as 2" too long for my garage unless it is between the wall studs. 2. Keep the shrouds attached to the boat permanently. ( Watch for chaff o= n the hull while towing) 3. Keep the sail on the boom permanently. Roll up the sail on the boom an= d tie it off keepint the outhaul and reefing lines in place. 4. If the motor is small and light never remove it from the bracket. I to= w mine with the 2hp johnson on the bracket. These might help shave a few minutes. Doug "Seas the Day" = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 13 Feb 1999 08:45:34 -0500 Message text written by gilasailr@aol.com = >Evinrude 2 hp I screamed! IMHO the lamest (almost) OB made! The 4 is probably IMHO the BEST. no one is perfect.< I have a 2hp Johnson and I concur, its inconsistent, unreliable, noisy a= nd difficult to work on. Its a good thing I like sailing or I would have to= replace it if I had to count on it. Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 13 Feb 1999 11:05:09 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE5740.B86801E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re the Evinrude 2 HP Had a brand new one. When two years old I had to replace the rings (not = an easy job). Re the Evinrude 4 HP. Had one. A very good engine indeed! Dan ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE5740.B86801E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Re the Evinrude 2 HP
Had a brand new one. When two years = old I had to=20 replace the rings (not an easy job).
Re the Evinrude 4 HP.
Had one. A very good engine = indeed!
    Dan
 
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE5740.B86801E0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Launching Date: 13 Feb 1999 18:52:44 EST In addition to the other suggestions, you can use the white plastic shroud protectors to prevent chafe. Whenever possible, I've used quick disconnect shackles or snap shackles(depends on loading strength needed) to disconnect things like topping lifts, vang, halyards, and any other line or shroud attachment points. Each screw shackle takes a lot more time than a snap shackle. If you add up 5 or 6 shackles, several minutes are saved. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 11 Feb 1999 20:33:01 -0500 Grove, I got the Whitworth tools from SnapOn. As I recall, you only need about two or maximum three sizes of Whitworth wrenches to work on a Seagull. Get the proper Whitworth wrenches, otherwise you run the danger of turning off the corners of the nuts and bolt heads if the wrenches don't fit properly, and then you have a mess to contend with. Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer extention Date: 11 Feb 1999 20:11:57 -0500 Mac, I tow my M-15 with a VW VR6 GTI - no problem. Had a bit of trepidation on a steep ramp at a marina on Lake Champlain, but I was able to pull boat out of the water, and then from a flat parking area, head up a very steep road to the main highway. The GTI didn't hesitate at all. Of course I was in first gear, but the car had plenty of power to get up the hill with the boat and trailer. In Europe, the VW is rate to haul 1500 Kg, which is about 3300 lbs. I have a friend in Munich who hauls her horse in a horse trailer around the countryside with a diesel VW. VW probably doesn't want to give out those number in the USA because of liability law suits. So there answer is, "No towing" and if you tow, you're on your own and VW is legally covered. My driveway is up a gentle hill. When I had my first trailerable sailboat, I tried to back the rig up the hill to park the boat. Hard to do: lots of clutch slipping: unsatisfactory! Later I got smart. Now I drive up the driveway and put the nose of the car in the garage. Then I disconnect the trailer, and with a bit of pushing ans shoving I can turn it around and park it in the spot where it belongs. Much easier than trying to back it into the parking place. Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 11 Feb 1999 20:28:58 -0500 Joe, I don't remember the oil drip tray for the MG, but I still have a piece of garden hose stuck in my ear for listening to the hiss of the SU carburetors so that they can be adjusted properly ......Ha! What a laugh! Must take a trained British ear to do the job. I never could. Finally bought a Motometer carburetor air flow measuring tool and that solved the problem. Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: British Products Date: 11 Feb 1999 20:23:42 -0500 Dan, Sorry, your message was gibberish. Juno doesn't accept additions, etc. but your bit about Lucas being the Prince of Darkness brings back all sorts of memories of British electrical system failures on British sports cars: there were the Lucas electrical fuel pumps where the points burned; there were the battery connectors that were held in place with a wood screw (2 x 6 volt batteries = 4 battery posts = calamity). Do you know why the British drink warm beer? They have Lucas refrigerators. Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 11 Feb 1999 20:18:23 -0500 Harvey, No, the Seagull seems to be the exception to British machinery temperature limitations. I saw them in Singapore doing duty on taxi boats taking sailors out to freighters anchored out in the rodes. The OAT was about 90-95 degrees F, and the Seagulls just purred. The majority of the taxi boat motors were Seagulls. Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John&Kris Subject: M_Boats: Weekend in San Diego Date: 14 Feb 1999 13:35:57 -0700 A couple of weeks ago, some of you expressed an interest in going to San Diego with our Montgomerys. I propose one of these weekends - June 11- 13 or June 25 - 27. Those who are interested, please email me and I will form a separate email list for planning. My husband and I have never sailed there (we're in Phoenix) so I would appreciate organization help from anyone who either lives or sails frequently there to help with the planning. Please email your full name and phone number, and address, and I'll keep a separate list going for our meet. Looking forward to hearing from you Kris Maine, John Fleming ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Weekend in San Diego Date: 14 Feb 1999 16:32:50 PST Hey.....I'm on the West Wight Potter Mailing List too.....and some of them are planning a trip over to Catalina Island around the same time. Hmmmm...... Tod Mills, M-less *and* Potterless ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hbkwant@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: outboard bracket Date: 14 Feb 1999 21:53:37 EST What kind of experience have people had with the Evinrude 2.5hp twin cylinder? Mine is an '89 that came on my 15. I end up having to rebuild the carb every 1 to 2 years to keep it going. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Reefs, cushions & outboards, etc. Date: 15 Feb 1999 12:54:19 EST Snap-On sells the tools you are looking for. I can look up the particular wrenches that are recommend. if you need the sizes. Gary O. gilasailr@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Kimmet Subject: M_Boats: Fish Finder Date: 15 Feb 1999 20:49:57 -0500 Has anyone used a fish finder with a transom mounted transducer for depth= and speed? Seems like a less expensive and convenient way to get both measurements. WestMarine has an Apelco 365 on sale here for $167. I'm= wondering about turbulence from the boat affecting the readings and wheth= er the transducer would be out of the water when the boat heels, unless the transducer is close to the centerline which might then interfere with the= rudder. jim Kimmet Blue Skies M17 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "greg" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fish Finder Date: 15 Feb 1999 20:54:34 -0800 I've got a humming bird wide angle. It goes to 600 feet and shows the fish at the different depths. Mounted it on the outside of the hull near the center line. The way it is mounted does not interfere with the rudder. Have had it out in the ocean and it works well. I have a second depth finder which is mounted inside the hull. Because of the hull it only records depths to 110 feet. Cannot use both at the same time because of the transducers. -----Original Message----- >Has anyone used a fish finder with a transom mounted transducer for depth >and speed? Seems like a less expensive and convenient way to get both >measurements. WestMarine has an Apelco 365 on sale here for $167. I'm >wondering about turbulence from the boat affecting the readings and whether >the transducer would be out of the water when the boat heels, unless the >transducer is close to the centerline which might then interfere with the >rudder. > >jim Kimmet >Blue Skies M17 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fish Finder Date: 15 Feb 1999 21:12:20 -0800 Jim I plan to install the Eagle fishfinder from my fishing boat on my M-15. I have decided to use a through-hull transponder rather than transom mount for the reasons you mentioned. I epoxied a through-hull transponder in the bottom of my fishing canoe and it works great. The readings of the transom-mount paddle wheel for the knotmeter should not be too critical, anyway. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 Poco A Poco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mclain, Mac" Date: 16 Feb 1999 15:10:46 -0800 Has anyone put a good set of oars on a M15? If so what length of oars did you use. I played around and it looks like a 71/2' to 8' would fit into the cabin and be out of the way when you have wind. The other problem is the oar lock carrier placement, and type. If you mounter them flush then there would be no way to clip the oar locks to keep them from pulling out on a wave. I thought about mounting on the bottom of a inverted U shape wood or metal holder and then the clip could go threw the open aerial and then they would not pull out. The seat could be a piece of plywood with rubber or carpet mounted on the bottom and store in the cabin out of the way. If any one has ash-wind ideals I like to hear because I don't want to put all my trust in an out board. Mac M15 #380 Portland.oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "HTM" Subject: M_Boats: looking to the future........ Date: 16 Feb 1999 19:57:11 PST I enjoy sailing in Georgian Bay (eastern half of Lake Huron) where everything is solid rock. Often the bottom will rise from great depths to semi-submerged walls of granite. Navigation is sometimes akin to walking a mine field. I was wondering if it would be possible to use a fishfinder to "look" forward as well as down....so that I could know when I was approaching one of these boat-stoppers. Something that only looks down doesn't allow enough reaction time. If the trans- whatchamacallit were tilted forward and were up closer to the bow (perhaps at the front of the keel) maybe it would give me time to react. Any thoughts on the matter? Tod Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: M_Boats: Re: Date: 16 Feb 1999 16:45:35 +0000 Hi Mac I have heard several times over the years that the most effective way to row a boat with the freeboard of the 15 is to use one long oar, and stand in the cockpit facing forward and push on it. Place the oarlock on the coaming so that you can lean against the tiller while you row. I'm sure that the boat would develop a "weatherhelm" and try to turn away from the side with the oar, so you would probably want to stand on he oar side of the tiller, or maybe stand with the tiller between your legs. I hate engines too. I don't know if Portland State has a rowing program but if they do, you might be able to talk them into selling you an over-the-hill oar from an 8, which I think would probably be better (lots lighter) than the long, beaver-killer oars that they use on river rafts. In any case, I think the oar would have to be pretty long. I would duct tape the oar socket on and go out and try it before drilling any holes. The common oar sockets used for dinghies and small rowboats are 1/2" and untapered; the larger ones used on heavier fishing boats are 5/8, and tapered. These would probably be best. When you do mount them, use a backup of some kind, and BOLT them. You would probably want to mount them on the outside of the coaming. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: looking to the future........ Date: 16 Feb 1999 23:31:45 -0500 Hi Tod... There are forward looking depth finders...the Interphase Outlook, Sea Scout, Twinscope and Probe comes to mind ( via the W-M catalog) A bit pricey, starting at $599 and UP!! Methinks Lowrance/ Eagle line may have something similiar. Point your browser to http://www.lowrance.com for more electronic stuff then you'll= wanna see Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: M_Boats: Re: Rowing Montgomerys Date: 16 Feb 1999 23:37:33 -0800 Mclain, Mac wrote: > > Has anyone put a good set of oars on a M15? Hi Mac. I've thought a lot about this altnerative to a motor as well. I've thought more in terms of a drop-in rowing station with sliding seat similar to what is used in a rowing shell--you can't tell when you'd really have to use such a setup for a long pull, and a sliding seat would definately be the way to go in that case. I got interested because of a couple of articles in Sail magazine where a couple used open boats to do some extended coastal cruising. In the Jan. '99 issue they used a two place setup in a 21' Sea Pearl, and in the May '96 issue the same couple used a single station unit in a mildly customized Daysailer from Sunfish/Laser. The articles don't go into a lot of detail on the rigs, but both use 10-foot sculling oars like Jerry mentioned for power. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Rowing Montgomerys Date: 17 Feb 1999 01:53:55 -0800 Tom Smith wrote: > > Mclain, Mac wrote: > > > > Has anyone put a good set of oars on a M15? > > Hi Mac. I've thought a lot about this altnerative to a motor as well. Hi potential rowers. Use this address to get a pretty good intro to sculling a small boat: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/6383/yuloh2.htm tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Honda 2 and factory bracket Date: 17 Feb 1999 12:39:20 EST In a message dated 2/13/99 1:47:25 AM, you wrote: <> I have both the stock bracket and a Honda 2. The Honda fits fine with one exception. When tilting the motor, the fuel cap just hits the rolled over hull-to-deck joint. This can be avoided by turning the motor sideways bef= ore tilting up. As it turns out, you are supposed to do this anyway. The Hon= da, unlike 2-strokes, does have an oil sump, and the manual clearly states tha= t if the motor is to be stored in any orientation other than vertical it must b= e on the one designated side to avoid oil going where it shouldn't. I spoke wi= th a Honda Rep who confirmed that tilting in this manner is the right thing to = do. If you are considering the purchase of a new Honda 2, you should confirm i= ts fit. The 1999 model has been completely redesigned. Mine is a couple of years old, so unless you are considering a used one, you will want to try = one on before buying. By the way, I purchased the long shaft version. I decided to do so after sailing (and motoring) on a friend's M15 with a short shaft. His prop wou= ld come out of the water in big seas, or anytime anyone went forward. Grante= d, this was in San Francisco Bay, where steep short duration chop is the orde= r of the day. It was my intention to mount a Teak block to the stock bracket t= o bring the motor up and back slightly. This would still keep the prop a co= uple of inches lower than a short shaft, but would allow the motor to tilt fart= her out of the water. I made the block, but have yet to install it. Instead,= I have been using a 1/8" thick hard rubber pad over the bracket. By the way= , I measured the tilt angle compared to the Tohatsu/Nissan/Evinrude/Johnson, a= nd found that the Honda tilts to a position a good deal more horizontal. On = the whole, I heartily recommend the Honda. Scott Grometer, M15 #478, "b=E9b=E9" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda 2 and factory bracket Date: 17 Feb 1999 21:07:16 EST does any one know what the smallest electric start 4 stroke ob might be///and is it possible to modify say a 5 hp to electric...seniors need every advantage...help please ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda 2 Date: 17 Feb 1999 20:24:39 -0600 Hi There all listers, The new Honda 2 just got a great write-up in Nothern Breezes magazine this month. The new design evidently is more efficient, has a larger tank, and comes with either a centrifical clutch with twist-grip throttle, or a direct drive and body mounted throttle. The real selling point for me is the weight (29 lbs for a long shaft ) and its 4 stroke. OK, now the question. I know M15 owners have used 2hp models, but does anyone have a feel whether a 2hp will push a M17 satisfactorily? I tried using an antique Johnson 3hp short shaft last summer and it did seem to have enough power in average lake conditions. In rough weather, I think the 3hp would be sweating badly and coming out of the water. I'm quite curious about the new 2hp. It may be too new for anyone to have used one and developed an opinion. Anyone have any words of wisdom? I feel the purse strings loosening. Thanks Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: M_Boats: Hello from the great ISP void Date: 17 Feb 1999 18:51:48 PST Greets, My ISP has been down for over a week, and I just got email up and going. As I did not see anything from the Montgomery group in my mailbox, I suspect that I may have been removed. Looking forward to getting back into the loop. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello from the great ISP void Date: 17 Feb 1999 22:59:29 EST In a message dated 2/17/99 7:52:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time, sparsons@canby.com writes: << Looking forward to getting back into the loop. Steve >> Welcome back Steve. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda 2 Date: 17 Feb 1999 23:18:10 -0500 Hi Bones.. If you have any chance of needing a strong push to get home from strong wind/wave action, I'd suggest you think of a 3.5 to 5hp motor for the M-1`7. Stargazer came from Florida's Gulf Coast with an 8hp. 'Rude. = A bit much for lake Lanier, Ga, so I'm thinking of a 3hp Forty Plus Seagull in addition to the 5hp Silver Century that I have. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen gray Subject: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 04:58:07 +0000 At 09:07 PM 2/17/99 EST, you wrote: >does any one know what the smallest electric start 4 stroke ob might be///and >is it possible to modify say a 5 hp to electric...seniors need every >advantage...help please > I've never seen an electric start outboard that small, but there may be one out there. However, I used to own an electric outboard (oversize trolling motor) that West Marine used to sell. It was rated in Ft. Lbs. which they said equated to around 2.8 H.P., even had power tilt/trim and remote speed control. It was my first electric motor of any kind, but was fun to simply be able to flip the switch and still be able to hold a conversation. I have seen Hunter Marine has gone to small electric motors so maybee some advances have been made. I'm not sure about the H.P. rating although, mine was on a 20' trimaran (1400 Lbs.) but never had enough oomph to push the boat upwind. Perhaps it would work ok on a monohull without all the extra windage. I don't see it in the current West Marine catalog, but it may still be available. As a side note...If anyone has access to this months Santana magazine (So. Cal.) it has a great article about trailering "Free Bird" a M-17 across Guatemala. I know it's hard to belive an article about trailering would make a sailing magazine, but it really is entertaining reading. Happy sailing, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Walter" Subject: M_Boats: M17 #37 resurrection continues Date: 18 Feb 1999 00:08:04 -0500 Well, as promised (or should I say threatened :-), here is the next installment in the resurrection of M17 #37. (Details on the Performance Trailer for the M17 are at the end.) Picked up the new trailer Friday the 5th at Hake Yachts and towed it the 50 miles home from Stuart. Dropped the centerboard that Saturday – after I fished out the steel pry bar and the magnet I had dropped down the cb trunk :-) the previous weekend. The centerboard is in surprisingly good shape for being 25 years old. A little surface corrosion overall with some pitting along the forward edge, but still in very good condition. I think its time to buy that heavy duty rotary sander though. So, centerboard went home in the back of the van Saturday night and on Sunday we went back to load up the boat - it being on blocks in the previous owners front yard. Three hours of jack this, move that, back a little, jack this, move that, back a little, and we had the boat on the trailer. Heh, the previous owner is an 82 year old heart patient and I’ve never done this before :-) So, did #37 go home on Sunday. No way. The new trailer I had purchased is the one Hake Yachts sells for their Seaward Seafox (aka Slipper 17 aka Starboard 17). When I ordered it, we decided to order the bunkboard struts 6 inches longer than they usually get because, on paper, the M17 is two inches deeper than a Seafox. Well, guess who had to hacksaw off that extra 6 inches Monday night. So, late Monday (the 8th), with proper ground clearance, I finally got #37 on the road and to her new home. Before #37 sees the water again, I’ll be doing the following: -- new companionway hatchboards; -- refinishing/probably replacing the brightwork; -- remounting the retractable motor mount; -- installing and sealing the 6 inch closeout the previous owner cut into the aft cockpit bulkhead (for access to the motor mount bolts); -- rewiring the entire boat to include the masthead tricolor and standard running lights, the VHF antenna, interior light(s), radio, instruments, and switch panel; new battery and box; -- reinstalling the bow pullpit; -- reinstalling the rudder gudgeons and pintles; -- install new centerboard winch. In addition, the standing rigging will likely get replaced (certainly the backstay which took a lawnmower hit J, as well as all the minor fiberglas / gelcoat repairs. One thing I am looking for advice on is the centerboard trunk itself. As I get close to being ready to venture back into the water (May?), I intend to take the boat down to the yard and have them lift her off the trailer and block her up so that I can cleanup the cb trunk before reinstalling the centerboard itself. Any experience out there? What is feasible to do inside the cb trunk in terms of sanding, patching, fairing, painting, etc? What problems should I look for in the cb trunk? My cb trunk seems to have a crust of rust around the bottom of the opening. Is that from the centerboard rusting, or is there a steel/iron foot or frame on the bottom of the keel or around the bottom opening of the cb trunk? I am also not sure what to do about the depthsounder. The current installation consists of a large shoe (4 inch wide X 6 inch long) glassed into the hull at the stern next to the skeg. The wire penetrates the hull. I don’t know if it even works, but the sight of it stuck on the bottom of the hull offends me. My inclination is to rip it out and do (or have done) whatever fiberglass repair is required. I would then buy a new depthsounder and bond the sender to the interior of the hull as I had on my last boat. Likewise, the overboard drains worry me. The sink drain appears to be the original factory installation discharging out the port side above the waterline. What worries me about this is that it looks like an invitation to water intrusion into the fiberglas laminate. Anyone seen problems here? Also, the previous owner relocated the original factory cockpit drain from its below the waterline location under the stern to an at waterline (or barely above) location in the center of the transom just above the skeg (which appears to be where the lower gudgeon used to be). Again my inclination is to close that off and open one or two large cockpit drains even with the floor of the cockpit (i.e. - several inches above the waterline) similar to current production boats. Pros? Cons? And now, for those in the southeast in need of a trailer for an M17, let me recommend: Performance Trailers, Inc. 6430 47TH ST. North Pinellas Park, FL 33781 (727) 525-5001 - call for the dealer nearest you J I purchased the Performance trailer because it’s what Hake Yachts uses as a factory trailer under their Seaward Seafox, which is roughly similar in size and hull form to the M17. Since the M17 is a couple of inches deeper than a Seafox, I ordered the bunkboard struts 6 inches longer than they use for the Seafox, but as noted above, this is not necessary J So, what do you get from Performance for $1300? A pretty decent trailer, I think. Its a Model PSVH 18W as set up for a Seafox. Its heavy duty throughout - 2660 lb. gross vehicle weight. All galvanized, all steel. Bunk struts are two inch square tubing. Wheels are mounted on hubs with built-in greasers. Tires are Carlisle USA Trails 20.5 x 8 x 10, which means an 8-inch wide tire on a 10 inch diameter wheel with a total diameter of 20.5 inches. The tires are D load rated. This wheel tire package gives an automobile tire profile that is the same diameter as the standard 12 inch trailer tire, thus keeping the trailer low to ease launching. I had to adjust the winch support/bow stop strut about 12 to 18 inches forward of where the factory set it to balance the M17 and get her completely on the keelboard. The only complaint I have with the trailer is that the keelboard it barely wider than the keel - I think I would like a slightly bigger target - but, then, I have not adjusted the fit of the keel guide boards yet, so it may work out. another happy boat owner, Bob PS - did the Miami Intl Boat Show on Sat. Saw some nice boats, although few in our size range (i.e. - 42 meter steel ketch - $4.5 million :-)), picked up a ton of sailing hardware and boat accessory catalogs. Saw a neat T-shirt: B reak O ut A nother T housand -- that sure has been my experience :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: looking to the future........ Date: 16 Feb 1999 17:06:33 -0800 I believe there is a British "forward looking" sonar for recreational boats, saw it mentioned in Practical Sailor some months ago. Dick "Sadhana" HTM wrote: > I enjoy sailing in Georgian Bay (eastern half of Lake Huron) where > everything is solid rock. Often the bottom will rise from great depths > to semi-submerged walls of granite. Navigation is sometimes akin to > walking a mine field. I was wondering if it would be possible to use > a fishfinder to "look" forward as well as down....so that I could know > when I was approaching one of these boat-stoppers. Something that > only looks down doesn't allow enough reaction time. If the trans- > whatchamacallit were tilted forward and were up closer to the bow > (perhaps at the front of the keel) maybe it would give me time > to react. > > Any thoughts on the matter? > > Tod Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Motomike@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 14:17:20 EST In a message dated 2/17/99 10:59:13 PM Central Standard Time, scgray@worldnet.att.net writes: << I've never seen an electric start outboard that small, but there may be one out there. However, I used to own an electric outboard (oversize trolling motor) that West Marine used to sell. It was rated in Ft. Lbs. which they said equated to around 2.8 H.P., even had power tilt/trim and remote speed control. It was my first electric motor of any kind, but was fun to simply be able to flip the switch and still be able to hold a conversation. >> FYI: I was at a boat show one winter and a sales rep at an electric trolling motor display booth told me that 15 lbs of thrust was roughly the equivalent of 1 H.P. I often think that electric would be a great way to go, but I have no experience with one. Does anyone use one for their primary motor on their M15 or M17? Will it power the boat directly into a 15-20 knot wind in a chop? Thanks, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 15:14:48 EST AGAIN...THE QUESTION IS...WHAT IS THE SMALLEST ELECTRIC START 4 STROKE GAS FUEL OUTBOARD AVAILABLE??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 15:03:09 -0700 I recall a number of years back Catalina offered an electric inboard motor as an option for there water ballasted 25. As I recall, they only offered the electric inboard for 2 years and then dropped it as an option. Our dealer sold 1 with it, but it was sold outside the area so I have no knowledge of how well it worked. In my opinion a gas motor has advantage over an electric motor in that: You can run most of a day on a tank of gas, you don't hafto keep charging the battery and handling it in and out of the boat, it provides consistent thrust. I don't consider an electric motor something I can depend on. I'll also hafto admit that I have had a gas outboard or two that I also didn't trust. For my needs a well maintained outboard has significant advantages over an electric motor. Regarding the Smallest Sized Electric Start Outboard: We had a Mercury 7.5 long shaft that had an electric starter. Randy randy@www1.eitc.edu Eastern Idaho Technical College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rland@win.bright.net Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 16:25:21 -0600 Just another piece of information for the motor thread: The 15 lbs of thrust per 1 hp might be a good rule-of-thumb for standard motors, but probably doesn't hold true for many sailboat motors. For example: I have a Chrysler 9.9hp "sailor" motor that generates 250 lbs of thrust with its factory-installed larger prop and extra-long shaft. That's about 25 lbs of thrust per 1 hp. I don't have any experience with electric motors, but just thought I'd throw this in anyway since many people may be talking about the power of outboards desgned for sailboats when they're comparing what's adequate. I'm just supposing that all the sailing-specific motors would be similar... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 17:20:36 EST THANKS ...CAN ANY OF THE SMALL 4 STROKES[SAY 5 HP] BE MODIFIED TO BE ELECTRIC START ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 17:28:57 -0500 >CAN ANY OF THE SMALL 4 STROKES[SAY 5 HP] BE MODIFIED > TO BE ELECTRIC START Data point. My 1997 Honda 5HP can not (although there is an option for an alternator) Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 17:34:06 -0500 > Data point. My 1997 Honda 5HP can not Oops... I forgot to mention something that may be significant. As well as the Honda, I also have a 4HP Johnson twin-cylinder motor in good condition, which I'm led to believe is a good motor. The Honda "string" is somewhat heavier to pull, but the motor has ALWAYS started on the second pull (well, there was one time when it started on the first). The number of pulls needed on the 2-stroke Johnson is indeterminate, and can be quite large. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: List Archives Date: 18 Feb 1999 16:19:02 -0700 Everyone that's expressed a comment seems to be at least mildly in favor of making our archives available to the listquest search engine so, unless I hear more, I'll set it up on Monday. We should be able to use the http://www.listquest.com search engine by the middle of next week. Thanks. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 19:42:17 EST In a message dated 2/18/99 3:36:28 PM US Mountain Standard Time, giles.morris@unisys.com writes: << The number of pulls needed on the 2-stroke Johnson is indeterminate, and can be quite large. Giles Morris >> A good tune-up would change your whole outlook on things... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda 2 Date: 18 Feb 1999 19:48:55 -0500 Bones, The question you pose is like the old one about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" If you are talking flat calm conditions, the 2 HP will do nicely and move the M-17. If, on the other hand you are asking: "Can the 2 HP push the M-17 against a 25 knot head wind and 3 knot current?" the answer is "No". So, your problem becomes one of defining where and how you want to use the motor. If upwind, and against lots of current, you then need lots more than 2 HP to move the M-17. If you are only moving in and out of a slip in relatively calm conditions, the 2 HP will suffice. So, HP required for the M-17 is a direct function of weather conditions you will encounter, and how you plan to use the motor. Another factor to consider is keeping the propeller in the water (i.e., a long shaft vs. as regular shaft length). If you want to use the engine under adverse conditions, then you have to ensure that the prop stays in the water and can supply maximum propulsive effort. Outboard props in the air don't do too well driving the boat to windward. So, you have to make sure the prop stays in the water, regardless of boat pitching - i.e., a long shaft version. Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 21:12:18 EST ...DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE MARKET...AS WE ALL GET OLDER...WE WILL NEED HELP TO CONTINUE SAILING...AM LOOOKING FOR AN ELECTRIC START 5HP 4 STROKE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 18 Feb 1999 22:36:46 -0500 >>The number of pulls needed on the 2-stroke Johnson is indeterminate >A good tune-up would change your whole outlook on things Would that it were so. I rebuilt the carb, checked it out thoroughly and then had it looked at by an outboard service shop. The reason for it being impossible to start was a dud kill switch. Now it's no longer impossible to start, just hard. In truth, it probably knows that I just don't like two-strokes (with the honorable exception of the beautiful old Stuart-Turner inboards) and that I intend to swap it for a Honda 2HP if I can -- it's really too big for its purpose anyway (motor for the Vancouver dinghy). Giles Morris M-15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Honda outboards Date: 18 Feb 1999 20:46:39 -0800 All this talk about the new Honda 2 hp standard shaft with centrifugal clutch has been interesting. I was considering buying a Mercury/Nissan/Tohatsu with F/N, but a 4-cycle engine would be preferable. The new Honda's clutch sounds like a desirable feature. Has anyone actually seen or tried one? What is the best price? Is anyone selling it via the internet or an 800 number (preferably west coast dealers)? Joe Kidd M-15 #207 Poco A Poco ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: M17 for sale Date: 19 Feb 1999 17:03:53 -0800 Found a listing for a '91 Montgomery 17 for $8800. See theanchorage.com for a complete description. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 for sale Date: 19 Feb 1999 17:52:56 -0800 Francene - I checked it out. Interesting that a boat apparently that well set up has only a main and jib - not genny or other sails listed. Seems a bit high in $, considering that it should still be a winter-time buyer's market in Colorado -- dwf -----Original Message----- >Found a listing for a '91 Montgomery 17 for $8800. See theanchorage.com >for a complete description. >Fran > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 19 Feb 1999 23:12:12 -0500 Hi Mike.. I doubt that any available trolling motor will power an M-15 or M-17 th= ru a 15 mph wind and chop. I had a 36lb thrust trolling motor on Stargazer 2 years ago while the 8hp= 'Rude was being overhauled. = Did all right in the marina, and 5-7 mph wind, but wouldn't get over 3kts= . = There are more powerful motors that use 24V, but cost is high and battery= life short. I'd hate to do some moderate motoring, then discover I neede= d an hour at high thrust to get out of trouble. = They say 1 amp =3D 1 lb thrust, so do your math...how big a battery are y= ou going to get ?? Harvey/ Ga = M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: RE: Re: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 19 Feb 1999 23:12:11 -0500 Hi Giles... >>>The number of pulls needed on the 2-stroke Johnson is indeterminate, and can be quite large.<<< My 8hp Yachtwin 'Rude always started on the first pull if I first primed it.....'course, if I forgot to prime _first_ no amount of coaxing/pulling/cussing started it until the next day, = Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: M_Boats: Mounting a hand-held GPS? Date: 20 Feb 1999 14:47:18 -0800 Looking for bright ideas for mounting a handheld GPS so that it is visible from the tiller and safe from heads/hands/feet/lines/water. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks -- dwf "In a power boat, you get there in a hurry, in a sailboat, you are already there" V-17 #36; M-15 #189; P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" - Ridgecrest, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mounting a hand-held GPS? Date: 20 Feb 1999 19:38:45 EST In a message dated 2/20/99 15:45:46 US Mountain Standard Time, dfarrell@ridgecrest.ca.us writes: << Looking for bright ideas for mounting a handheld GPS so that it is visible from the tiller and safe from heads/hands/feet/lines/water. Any suggestions appreciated. >> If I were using the GPS as strictly handheld, I think I might get a waterproof bag from West Marine and mount it on the coaming with some velcro....... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: Nice surprise Date: 20 Feb 1999 23:44:12 -0500 I took my 4 year old grandson to the marina today, as his mother needed some "time off" and he wanted to see boats in the water, and feed the ducks. We went down to the slip that I rented for Stargazer last year, and found= one of the dockmates working on his boat..a 28 footer. Grandson was thrilled to go aboard and play in the cabin while we chatted. We talked a bit about my boat ( he didn't remember it) and i said it was = a M-17, with lapstrake hull..sorta like .....that...boat....over...there...= . I quickly went over, thinking..no, it can't be....but it was !! Another M-17 !! Thought it might have been a M-15 since it looked smaller then Stargazer, but there it was on the hull...M-17!! It was a newer model, without the motor cutout in the transom. It had a boom tent, and I couldn't see the hull number..just the name "Entrance" (= or was it entrique??) on the transom. The marina said it came in a few weeks ago. I gave them my name and phon= e number to give to him...hope he calls!! Be nice to sail with another M-17 Harvey/ Ga = M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vaughn.Austring@MSB.Mat-Su.k12.ak.us (Vaughn Austring) Subject: M_Boats: Rowing Date: 20 Feb 1999 23:10:53 -0900 On my m-17, I have a single oar-lock on the transom for sculling; it's good for no wind, short distance and for emergency backup for both the outboard and the rudder. For rowing I just brace the oars against the winches. 8' oars are easily available, and that's what I currently use, but 9 1/2 footers would work better and would still fit in the cabin on the sole. Another possibility is to use rafters' oars which breakdown; I think 10 footers would be the best length. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mounting a hand-held GPS? Date: 21 Feb 1999 14:54:26 -0500 Dennis My solution to your GPS mounting problem was to mount a teak "4 drink/binocular holder" WEST '98 catalog page 357, item No. 126294 on a suitable sized lower companionway hatch board. I mounted a VHF radio holder on the end of the teak holder, that will hold either my VHF hand held transceiver or the GPS (a Magellan model). Works fine: 7 x 50 binoculars in place: a beer available; and either a drink for my wife, or if I'm sailing alone, her drink holder will hold the radio, while the GPS resides in the holder. The teaks holder is not mounted on the companionway centerline, but is off to Port as far as it can go, so that I have some remaining free space on the hatch board for another idea - when it comes. Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: mpntgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 21 Feb 1999 20:14:19 EST ...would appreciate input/comparison of the montgomery 17 versus the potter 19[the good the bad and the ugly} ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: randy.watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: Re: Electric start outboard Date: 22 Feb 1999 08:44:20 CST Giles, I had a similar problem with my past Evinrude 3.2. It determined when it would start and in a years period the carb. was rebuilt twice and a couple of adjustments. It was new and under warranty. I had a couple of times it took 30-35 pulls to start up. I traded it in on a Honda L/S 2 hp. and came out reasonable well $ wise. I was advised by friends initially not to purchase the Evinrude but the $ difference seemed too great at that time. oh well, some of us learn lessons the hard way. Regards, Randy W. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet >>The number of pulls needed on the 2-stroke Johnson is indeterminate >A good tune-up would change your whole outlook on things Would that it were so. I rebuilt the carb, checked it out thoroughly and then had it looked at by an outboard service shop. The reason for it being impossible to start was a dud kill switch. Now it's no longer impossible to start, just hard. In truth, it probably knows that I just don't like two-strokes (with the honorable exception of the beautiful old Stuart-Turner inboards) and that I intend to swap it for a Honda 2HP if I can -- it's really too big for its purpose anyway (motor for the Vancouver dinghy). Giles Morris M-15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: M17 for sale Date: 22 Feb 1999 08:41:24 -0800 Found a listing for a M17, 1977- galvanized trailer, 7.5hp Merc, battery, 2 sets of sails. Located in Rockport, Tx. $3,900. Looks good from the photo. Go to Yachtworld.com Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Honda 2 for M17 Date: 22 Feb 1999 12:59:55 EST In a message dated 2/18/99 2:30:25 AM, you wrote: <> Bones, This would really depend on your cruising grounds (waters) and your expectations for performance. The 2 would certainly get you to and from the dock, and would probably push you at modest speeds in flat water, but I do not think it would be adequate in areas with big seas/chop, or with strong currents. My Honda 2 pushes my M15 (loaded with cruising gear) at about 4.5 knots in flat water (cruising speed, 3/4 throttle--full throttle yields little additional speed). Given the conditions in San Francisco Bay and in British Columbia waters (my two primary cruising grounds), I consider the 2HP a minimum for the M15. I would not guess that the same motor would be adequate in these conditions on a boat weighing twice as much. I don't think the extra waterline length of the 17 would compensate for the additional windage and wetted area. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 12:35:17 -0700 Montgomery good. Potter bad and ugly. OK, I'm sorry about that. I just saw a Saturday Night Live rerun with Tarzan, Tonto, and Frankenstein. Couldn't help myself. Back when I raced, the Potters always finished last. That's my only real experience with them. ---------- > From: Grove777@aol.com > To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: mpntgomery 17 vs potter 19 > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:14 PM > > ...would appreciate input/comparison of the montgomery 17 versus the potter > 19[the good the bad and the ugly} > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: randy.watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: M_Boats: M15 masthead light Date: 22 Feb 1999 14:23:25 CST I was wondering if anyone else has added lights on their M15 post factory? I'm looking for a masthead 360 degree anchoring / steaming light solution that will fit the M15 mast. any suggestions? thanks, Randy W. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: randy.watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: mpntgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 14:31:48 CST howdy, can't speak for the M17 vs P19 comparison but I did own a P15 prior to my M15. on the + side for Potters- they are easy to launch, reasonable cost wise, rig and fun to sail ( IMHO ) on the + side for M15 ( my current boat ) the overall construction seems superior, stiffer( the hull would flex on the P15 ) , the M15 deck is bolted to the hull, I'm not sure about the Potter construction, the M15 it is a faster boat and points well. I do sail with friends who own Potters and we all have a good time sailing together which seems to the be primary reason for owning any boat. have fun with your decision and spend your sailing $ wisely. regards, Randy W ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet ...would appreciate input/comparison of the montgomery 17 versus the potter 19[the good the bad and the ugly} ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: M15 masthead light Date: 22 Feb 1999 15:36:26 -0500 >I'm looking for a masthead 360 degree anchoring / steaming >light solution that will fit the M15 mast Mine was not the most elegant solution in the world, but it seems to work... The steaming light is an Aqua Signal Series 25 light on an Aqua Signal bracket. It REALLY grieved me to pay so much for the bracket - essentially a bent piece of stainless steel that I pop-riveted to the mast - but it works well. The anchor light was also Aqua Signal, and it is mounted on a bracket that I made from part of an aluminum box sold by Radio Shack to be a case for a smallish electronic device. It is held on to the mast by the same pop rivets that hold on the steaming light bracket on one side. It is strengthened by a diagonal (made from the same box) and is just high enough to leave the masthead clear. Were I to do the whole thing again (or when/if the aluminum bracket breaks) I might consider buying one of the ridiculously overpriced, but oh-so-neat masthead antenna mounts. Of course, if I knew where to buy stainless steel sheets of the right thickness, it wouldn't be too hard to make all sorts of brackets. Giles Morris M-15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Fisher" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 13:45:15 -0700 You are comparing apples and oranges. They are both sailboats. Ask yourself what you want to do with the boat? Will you sail primarily in protected waters? Will you do any coastal cruising or racing? The Potter provides a little more room, if you don't mind the center board trunk always in the way. The Montgomery was designed by the legendary Lyle C. Hess and is strong, seaworthy and fast as hell when trimmed properly. You can cruise on the boat if you go light. Choose the boat according to your needs. Bob Fisher -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Keith Diehl Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 12:35 PM Montgomery good. Potter bad and ugly. OK, I'm sorry about that. I just saw a Saturday Night Live rerun with Tarzan, Tonto, and Frankenstein. Couldn't help myself. Back when I raced, the Potters always finished last. That's my only real experience with them. ---------- > From: Grove777@aol.com > To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: mpntgomery 17 vs potter 19 > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 6:14 PM > > ...would appreciate input/comparison of the montgomery 17 versus the potter > 19[the good the bad and the ugly} > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 17:24:27 EST In a message dated 2/22/99 13:49:57 US Mountain Standard Time, bfisher@firstam.com writes: << You are comparing apples and oranges. They are both sailboats. >> Bob You wouldn't be biased in any way, would you? Lenny M-23 #003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Fisher" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 15:27:20 -0700 Lenny: Now Lenny, you know M owners are open minded sailors? I could have been much stronger in my comparison but it is Lent. Fair Weather, Bob -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of AirEvacLen@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 3:24 PM In a message dated 2/22/99 13:49:57 US Mountain Standard Time, bfisher@firstam.com writes: << You are comparing apples and oranges. They are both sailboats. >> Bob You wouldn't be biased in any way, would you? Lenny M-23 #003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 17:49:02 EST In a message dated 2/22/99 15:31:40 US Mountain Standard Time, bfisher@firstam.com writes: << Now Lenny, you know M owners are open minded sailors? I could have been much stronger in my comparison but it is Lent. >> Bob Heh, heh.............truly a period of sacrafice..............more fish please......LOL Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Betts Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home Date: 22 Feb 1999 19:17:59 Last chance for a great dinghy: 1980 Montgomery 7/11 lapstrake dinghy in excellent condition, mast, boom, sail and sleeve; oars, cradle, bows and cover, mahogany centerboard and rudder; rows, sails and motors like a dream. Nobody was interested at $1,000, so now's the time to name your price. Message jbetts@mindspring.com if you'd like to make a deal. Jack Betts ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: mpntgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 19:10:07 PST Randy, The M15 hull/deck connection is also chemically bonded (read strong!). Steve > howdy, > can't speak for the M17 vs P19 comparison but I did own a P15 prior to > my M15. > on the + side for Potters- they are easy to launch, reasonable cost > wise, rig and fun to sail ( IMHO ) > > on the + side for M15 ( my current boat ) the overall construction > seems superior, stiffer( the hull would flex on the P15 ) , the M15 > deck is bolted to the hull, I'm not sure about the Potter > construction, the M15 it is a faster boat and points well. > > I do sail with friends who own Potters and we all have a good time > sailing together which seems to the be primary reason for owning any > boat. > > have fun with your decision and spend your sailing $ wisely. > > regards, > > Randy W > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: M_Boats: mpntgomery 17 vs potter 19 >Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet >Date: 2/21/99 7:24 PM > > >...would appreciate input/comparison of the montgomery 17 versus the potter >19[the good the bad and the ugly} > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rland@win.bright.net Subject: M_Boats: hull to deck joint on older M-17s Date: 22 Feb 1999 19:59:32 -0600 M-list readers, I've recently looked at a couple of M-17s. One newer one, which may already be sold, and an older one. My question concerns the hull-to-deck joint on the older (1970s) models. When I was looking in the cabin, I noticed brownish colored stains running down the hull from where it joins the deck - this was alongside the quarter berth and looked as though it may have been caused by water leakage along the hull-to-deck joint. When I looked at the joint on the outside, here's what I found: The deck and hull were joined together by a number of bolts - the nut side of which was visible underneath the gunwale. There were about twice as many holes as bolts (the bolts were spaced about 8" apart, maybe, I can't remember for sure). I'm not sure what the extra holes were for. When I looked at a similar vintage M-17 that was nearby (not for sale) it also had extra holes, but not as many. The main thing that worried me was that there were numerous semi-circular cracks in the gelcoat of the hull just below the gunwales. These were each about 1 1/2" to 2" long and looked as though they went all the way through the gelcoat (where I could see the edge it looked to be a little less than 1/8" thick). Unlike surface crazing, I could actually get my fingernail into some of the cracks. They were mostly towards the middle of the boat. I almost wondered if someone had tried to tighten the bolts holding the deck on and had overtightened? Some of the bolts were a little longer than others - more bolt sticking out past the nut - so were they original? What I'm wondering, all you 1970s M-17 owners, is whether this is common to older M-17s? Is it serious? Can the cracks just be filled with epoxy (the area doesn't really show, you can only see it by looking under the hull to deck connection on the outside of the boat) or is this a boat to stay away from? Thanks for any information. Rland ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: mpntgomery 17 vs potter 19 Date: 22 Feb 1999 23:07:27 -0500 >>>...would appreciate input/comparison of the montgomery 17 versus the potter = 19[the good the bad and the ugly}<<< I saw a new P-19 about 6 months before I bought my M-17. Methinks the interior was larger then mine (should have been!!) but the dagger board was in the middle of the cabin, and a pulley arraingement fo= r the lifting cable went thru the cabin to the cranking point near the companionway. Construction was light...1200 lbs for the P- 19 vs 1500 for the M-17. I= t was on the trailer when I saw it, so can only take other people's word fo= r it's sailing ability. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: hull to deck joint on older M-17s Date: 23 Feb 1999 07:10:52 -0600 Hmmm, I don't think the 80's models (specifically 1986) had that problem. All my holes have bolts and I think they are spaced @ 6" apart. Just a thought, Ms "rland". Brian -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 8:00 PM M-list readers, I've recently looked at a couple of M-17s. One newer one, which may already be sold, and an older one. My question concerns the hull-to-deck joint on the older (1970s) models. When I was looking in the cabin, I noticed brownish colored stains running down the hull from where it joins the deck - this was alongside the quarter berth and looked as though it may have been caused by water leakage along the hull-to-deck joint. When I looked at the joint on the outside, here's what I found: The deck and hull were joined together by a number of bolts - the nut side of which was visible underneath the gunwale. There were about twice as many holes as bolts (the bolts were spaced about 8" apart, maybe, I can't remember for sure). I'm not sure what the extra holes were for. When I looked at a similar vintage M-17 that was nearby (not for sale) it also had extra holes, but not as many. The main thing that worried me was that there were numerous semi-circular cracks in the gelcoat of the hull just below the gunwales. These were each about 1 1/2" to 2" long and looked as though they went all the way through the gelcoat (where I could see the edge it looked to be a little less than 1/8" thick). Unlike surface crazing, I could actually get my fingernail into some of the cracks. They were mostly towards the middle of the boat. I almost wondered if someone had tried to tighten the bolts holding the deck on and had overtightened? Some of the bolts were a little longer than others - more bolt sticking out past the nut - so were they original? What I'm wondering, all you 1970s M-17 owners, is whether this is common to older M-17s? Is it serious? Can the cracks just be filled with epoxy (the area doesn't really show, you can only see it by looking under the hull to deck connection on the outside of the boat) or is this a boat to stay away from? Thanks for any information. Rland ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan_Harstad@datacard.com Subject: M_Boats: M17 owners in Minnesota Date: 23 Feb 1999 09:55:16 -0600 I need to replace the centerboard rope. I live in Eden Prairie, I need to lift my M17 off of the trailer, does anyone know of a place where I can do this, that is close to Eden Prairie? Bryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 owners in Minnesota Date: 23 Feb 1999 08:14:01 -0800 A bit off the wall, but I've had the wild idea that one could use an external frame automobile hoist. Some auto shops have an external frame hoist. There are 4 vertical posts with hydraulically-lifted pads which fit under the car frame. I've wondered why one couldn't go to a rigger's supply and have heavy straps made which could go thwartships from pad to pad, and the hoist used to lift the boat long enough to do something like remove/replace centerboards, swing keels, etc. Alternatively, considering your location, could you just pack snow under the boat enough to lift it??????? -- dwf"In a power boat, you get there in a hurry, in a sailboat, you are already there" V-17 #36; M-15 #189; P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" - Ridgecrest, CA -----Original Message----- > > >I need to replace the centerboard rope. > >I live in Eden Prairie, I need to lift my M17 off of the trailer, does >anyone know of a place where I can do this, that is close to Eden Prairie? > >Bryan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan_Harstad@datacard.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 owners in Minnesota Date: 23 Feb 1999 10:38:26 -0600 Not this winter, we don't have much snow, but if I dont fix it this spring, I might just wait and until next winter. I'll let you know. Bryan "Dennis W. Farrell" on 02/23/99 10:14:01 AM Please respond to montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com cc: (bcc: Bryan Harstad/US/DataCard) A bit off the wall, but I've had the wild idea that one could use an external frame automobile hoist. Some auto shops have an external frame hoist. There are 4 vertical posts with hydraulically-lifted pads which fit under the car frame. I've wondered why one couldn't go to a rigger's supply and have heavy straps made which could go thwartships from pad to pad, and the hoist used to lift the boat long enough to do something like remove/replace centerboards, swing keels, etc. Alternatively, considering your location, could you just pack snow under the boat enough to lift it??????? -- dwf"In a power boat, you get there in a hurry, in a sailboat, you are already there" V-17 #36; M-15 #189; P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" - Ridgecrest, CA -----Original Message----- > > >I need to replace the centerboard rope. > >I live in Eden Prairie, I need to lift my M17 off of the trailer, does >anyone know of a place where I can do this, that is close to Eden Prairie? > >Bryan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: M_Boats: hull to deck joint on older M-17s Date: 23 Feb 1999 11:47:11 EST ...ah the truth at last ...some montgomerys are holier than others or is it that some montgomerys are not as holy as others...the epiphany of life...life is not what it appears to be ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Fwd: Nautical Terms Date: 23 Feb 1999 12:04:45 EST This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_919789485_boundary Content-ID: <0_919789485@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_919789485_boundary Content-ID: <0_919789485@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-ya03.mx.aol.com (rly-ya03.mail.aol.com [172.18.144.195]) by air-ya05.mx.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:54:07 -0500 Received: from anchor.sailnet.com (anchor.sailnet.com [209.69.23.254]) by rly-ya03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id LAA04864 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:54:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.81.17.2] by anchor.sailnet.com (NTList 3.03.0017) id oa737036; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:55:52 -0500 Received: from SAusmusIII@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id QHLCa04795 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:38:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 X-Info: - The TMCA Mailing List Reply-To: tmca-list@sailnet.com X-ListMember: Grove777@aol.com [tmca-list@sailnet.com] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thought you guys might enjoy these: >Nothing to this sailing thing once you get the vocabulary down! > >Amidships - condition of being surrounded by boats. > >Anchor - a device designed to bring up mud samples from the bottom at >inopportune or unexpected times. > >Anchor Light - a small light used to discharge the battery before >daylight. > >Berth - a small person's idea of a bed. > >Boom - sometimes the result of a surprise jibe. > >Bottom Paint - what you get when the cockpit seats are freshly painted. > >Chart - a type of map which tells you exactly where you are aground. > >Clew - an indication from the skipper as to what he might do next. > >Companionway - a double berth. > >Dead Reckoning - a course leading directly to a reef. > >Deadrise - getting up to check the anchor at 0300. > >Deviation - any departure from the Captain's orders. > >Dinghy - the sound of the ship's bell. > >Displacement - when you dock your boat and can't find it later. > >Estimated Position - a place you have marked on the chart where you are >sure you are not. > >First Mate - crew member necessary for skippers to practice shouting >instructions to. > >Foul Wind - breeze produced by an up wind crew member with gas.. > >Freeboard - food and liquor supplied by the owner. > >Headway - what you are making if you can't get the toilet to work. > >Heave-Ho - what you do when you've eaten too much Ho. > >Jibe - either you like it or you don't and it gets you. > >Keel - term used by 1st mate after too much heel by skipper. > >Landlubber - anyone on board who wishes he were not. > >Latitude - the number of degrees off course allowed a guest. > >Mast - religious ritual used before setting sail. > >Mizzen - an object you can't find. > >Ram - an intricate docking maneuver sometimes used by experienced >skippers. > >Rhumb Line - two or more crew members waiting for a drink. > >Sheet - cool, damp, salty night covering. > >Shroud - equipment used in connection with a wake. > >Starboard - special board used by skippers for navigation(usually with >"Port" on the opposite side.) > >Swell - a wave that's just great. > >Square Rigger - a rigger over 30. *************************************************************************** To leave this list send an E-Mail to: leave-tmca@sailnet.com SailNet's New HELP FILES: http://www.sailnet.com/list/help/ *************************************************************************** --part0_919789485_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: hull to deck joint on older M-17s Date: 23 Feb 1999 13:47:37 EST In a message dated 2/23/99 10:03:33 US Mountain Standard Time, Grove777@aol.com writes: << ..the epiphany of life...life is not what it appears to be >> Or in other words..."I think, therefore I am ".......... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: Nautical Terms Date: 23 Feb 1999 13:25:26 CST just curious who else is onm the TMCA list. are you Texas based? I'm a new TMCA member, send me an email thanks Randy W. College Station, Tx ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_919789485_boundary Content-ID: <0_919789485@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_919789485_boundary Content-ID: <0_919789485@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-ya03.mx.aol.com (rly-ya03.mail.aol.com [172.18.144.195]) by air-ya05.mx.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:54:07 -0500 Received: from anchor.sailnet.com (anchor.sailnet.com [209.69.23.254]) by rly-ya03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id LAA04864 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:54:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.81.17.2] by anchor.sailnet.com (NTList 3.03.0017) id oa737036; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:55:52 -0500 Received: from SAusmusIII@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id QHLCa04795 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:38:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 X-Info: - The TMCA Mailing List Reply-To: tmca-list@sailnet.com X-ListMember: Grove777@aol.com [tmca-list@sailnet.com] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thought you guys might enjoy these: >Nothing to this sailing thing once you get the vocabulary down! > >Amidships - condition of being surrounded by boats. > >Anchor - a device designed to bring up mud samples from the bottom at >inopportune or unexpected times. > >Anchor Light - a small light used to discharge the battery before >daylight. > >Berth - a small person's idea of a bed. > >Boom - sometimes the result of a surprise jibe. > >Bottom Paint - what you get when the cockpit seats are freshly painted. > >Chart - a type of map which tells you exactly where you are aground. > >Clew - an indication from the skipper as to what he might do next. > >Companionway - a double berth. > >Dead Reckoning - a course leading directly to a reef. > >Deadrise - getting up to check the anchor at 0300. > >Deviation - any departure from the Captain's orders. > >Dinghy - the sound of the ship's bell. > >Displacement - when you dock your boat and can't find it later. > >Estimated Position - a place you have marked on the chart where you are >sure you are not. > >First Mate - crew member necessary for skippers to practice shouting >instructions to. > >Foul Wind - breeze produced by an up wind crew member with gas.. > >Freeboard - food and liquor supplied by the owner. > >Headway - what you are making if you can't get the toilet to work. > >Heave-Ho - what you do when you've eaten too much Ho. > >Jibe - either you like it or you don't and it gets you. > >Keel - term used by 1st mate after too much heel by skipper. > >Landlubber - anyone on board who wishes he were not. > >Latitude - the number of degrees off course allowed a guest. > >Mast - religious ritual used before setting sail. > >Mizzen - an object you can't find. > >Ram - an intricate docking maneuver sometimes used by experienced >skippers. > >Rhumb Line - two or more crew members waiting for a drink. > >Sheet - cool, damp, salty night covering. > >Shroud - equipment used in connection with a wake. > >Starboard - special board used by skippers for navigation(usually with >"Port" on the opposite side.) > >Swell - a wave that's just great. > >Square Rigger - a rigger over 30. *************************************************************************** To leave this list send an E-Mail to: leave-tmca@sailnet.com SailNet's New HELP FILES: http://www.sailnet.com/list/help/ *************************************************************************** --part0_919789485_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home Date: 23 Feb 1999 20:30:13 -0600 Jack, Do you still have that for sale? I'm surprised. I wish you were closer to me, I'd swoop on that little darling in a heartbeat. 28 degrees in Minnesota today, looking at 45 degrees this Friday. Think spring! Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 owners in Minnesota Date: 23 Feb 1999 20:47:06 -0600 Hi Bryan, I had Hooper's yachts in Afton replace my centerboard pendant last year. They did a marvelous job, putting in the largest line that would fit, adding a fairlead to the top of the keel housing, and replacing the keel "stop" pin. Talk with Brian, he used to own an M17. He also has a couple for sale on the lot. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 South Minneapolis ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: hull to deck joint on older M-17s Date: 23 Feb 1999 21:04:08 -0600 Hummmmm, Now you've got me curious. I recall seeing the bolts fastening the deck to the hull when waxing my M17, but I don't recall seeing any "holes" or missing hardware. I'll have to go look under the tarp and report back to the list. Bones M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Hiestand Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 23 Feb 1999 21:09:17 -0800 Recently stumbled across a montgomery 23 in supposedly bristol condition with a dual axle trailer. The asking price is 10,000, this seems extremely low, any specific checks I should make? Thinking of possible structural damage et. . Thanks ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: RE: M_Boats: hull to deck joint on older M-17s Date: 23 Feb 1999 23:22:20 -0500 >>>>hen I looked at the joint on the outside, here's what I found: The deck and hull were joined together by a number of bolts - the nut side of which was visible underneath the gunwale.<<< I just looked at my 1979 M-17 and there are no extra holes anywhere. = Bolt spacing was variable, with the closest spacing at the ends and wides= t part of the beam. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rland@win.bright.net Subject: Re: M_Boats: hull to deck joint on older M-17s Date: 23 Feb 1999 19:03:51 -0600 Harvey, Thanks for the info. I'm wondering if someone didn't re-bolt the top and deck together (?), using new holes, although there was no evidence of this from the deck side. I suppose the bolt heads must be under the aluminum toe-rail somewhere... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Azphip@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 owners in Minnesota Date: 23 Feb 1999 23:00:12 EST My centerboard line parted company while sailing last October @ Lake Powell (AZ & UT). It was quite easy to replace while in the water. Is that not an option in MN after the ice melts? AZPHIP M-17 #210 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan_Harstad@datacard.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 owners in Minnesota Date: 24 Feb 1999 07:08:01 -0600 Hoopers Yachts is on the other side of town, I was looking for something closer. Bryan bownez@juno.com on 02/23/99 08:47:06 PM Please respond to montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com cc: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com (bcc: Bryan Harstad/US/DataCard) Hi Bryan, I had Hooper's yachts in Afton replace my centerboard pendant last year. They did a marvelous job, putting in the largest line that would fit, adding a fairlead to the top of the keel housing, and replacing the keel "stop" pin. Talk with Brian, he used to own an M17. He also has a couple for sale on the lot. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 South Minneapolis ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan_Harstad@datacard.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 owners in Minnesota Date: 24 Feb 1999 07:12:26 -0600 Any problems with this method (besides using tools that are really heavy)? Azphip@aol.com on 02/23/99 10:00:12 PM Please respond to montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com cc: (bcc: Bryan Harstad/US/DataCard) My centerboard line parted company while sailing last October @ Lake Powell (AZ & UT). It was quite easy to replace while in the water. Is that not an option in MN after the ice melts? AZPHIP M-17 #210 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mclain, Mac" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 24 Feb 1999 08:45:26 -0800 Hi Ed. I don't have any help on the M-23 but I would like to see a layout to an M-23 and a speck sheet on it because I heard there were only something like 8 built. Mac. M-15 #380 Portland ,Oregon . I would also like to see more people add their city and state. -----Original Message----- From: Ed Hiestand [mailto:hiestec@homer.libby.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 9:09 PM To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 > ---------- > From: Ed Hiestand[SMTP:HIESTEC@HOMER.LIBBY.ORG] > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 9:09:17 PM > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 > Auto forwarded by a Rule > Recently stumbled across a montgomery 23 in supposedly bristol condition with a dual axle trailer. The asking price is 10,000, this seems extremely low, any specific checks I should make? Thinking of possible structural damage et. . Thanks ed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 24 Feb 1999 11:52:48 EST In a message dated 2/23/99 21:07:44 US Mountain Standard Time, hiestec@homer.libby.org writes: << Recently stumbled across a montgomery 23 in supposedly bristol condition with a dual axle trailer. The asking price is 10,000, >> I've had my M-23 for about 9 months now..........been doing little things on it each week....... but I'm really picky about my boat.......e-mail me at Airevaclen@aol.com for any questions you may have.......... Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 24 Feb 1999 12:07:57 EST In a message dated 2/24/99 09:46:06 US Mountain Standard Time, Mac.Mclain@nike.com writes: << Hi Ed. I don't have any help on the M-23 but I would like to see a layout to an M-23 and a speck sheet on it because I heard there were only something like 8 built. Mac. M-15 #380 Portland ,Oregon . I would also like to see more people add their city and state. >> Hi Mac Amazing the way these M-rumors go around..........I have an M-23, SN 003, and last time I heard SN#1 was up in Portland......Jerry M is alive and well and his "guess" was 18 of them were made complete......... Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse Phx, AZ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: Archives Search Engine Date: 24 Feb 1999 10:28:24 -0700 We're now on-line with the archive search engine. Give it a try and let me know what you think: http://www.listquest.com/goto/montgomeryboats Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 24 Feb 1999 13:17:56 -0500 ED, can you give more info on the location of the M23 you wrote about.?? = Better question probably is WILL you give more info if you have it.? Lar= ry Barkhuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home Date: 24 Feb 1999 08:18:41 CST Jack, where are you located? Randy W. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Last chance for a great dinghy: 1980 Montgomery 7/11 lapstrake dinghy in excellent condition, mast, boom, sail and sleeve; oars, cradle, bows and cover, mahogany centerboard and rudder; rows, sails and motors like a dream. Nobody was interested at $1,000, so now's the time to name your price. Message jbetts@mindspring.com if you'd like to make a deal. Jack Betts ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mclain, Mac" Subject: M_Boats: Good Old Boat Magazine Date: 24 Feb 1999 11:32:57 -0800 Has everyone seen Good Old Boat magazine yet. I just got two copies in the mail the last two weeks and this is the first written in the U. S. sailing magazine I have thaught was down to earth enough to subscribe to. The British have a cupple I have bought on the news stands that are very good but all the American ones are just fluff with lots of ads. The $40 for a years worth of magazine seems a little high (6 ea ) but this is the only magazine I have read cover to cover. website or jerry@goodoldboat.com Mac M-15 #380 Portland ,Oregon or Beaverton ,Oregon where the hell is bever town oregon? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Good Old Boat Magazine Date: 24 Feb 1999 13:23:55 -0800 Mac: are you familiar with "Messing About In Boats" which is published in Wenham, Mass. If you haven't seen it, call Bob Hicks (publisher) at (978)-774-0906 during working hours there and he'll send you a complimentary copy. It's not "Small Boat Journal", but then what is??? -- dwf "In a power boat, you get there in a hurry, in a sailboat, you are already there" V-17 #36; M-15 #189; P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" - Ridgecrest, CA -----Original Message----- >Has everyone seen Good Old Boat magazine yet. I just got two copies in the >mail the last two weeks and this is the first written in the U. S. sailing >magazine I have thaught was down to earth enough to subscribe to. The >British have a cupple I have bought on the news stands that are very good >but all the American ones are just fluff with lots of ads. The $40 for a >years worth of magazine seems a little high (6 ea ) but this is the only >magazine I have read cover to cover. website >or jerry@goodoldboat.com > Mac M-15 #380 Portland ,Oregon or Beaverton ,Oregon where the hell is >bever town oregon? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: Archives Search Engine Date: 24 Feb 1999 13:57:00 -0800 Very nice, Dick M23 Sadhana. Keith Diehl wrote: > We're now on-line with the archive search engine. Give it a try > and let me know what you think: > http://www.listquest.com/goto/montgomeryboats > > Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City > http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 24 Feb 1999 13:58:49 -0800 M23 Sadhana is sail# 44 and is a 1979. Dick AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/24/99 09:46:06 US Mountain Standard Time, > Mac.Mclain@nike.com writes: > > << > Hi Ed. I don't have any help on the M-23 but I would like to see a layout to > an M-23 and a speck sheet on it because I heard there were only something > like 8 built. Mac. M-15 #380 Portland ,Oregon . I would also like to > see more people add their city and state. > >> > Hi Mac > Amazing the way these M-rumors go around..........I have an M-23, SN 003, > and last time I heard SN#1 was up in Portland......Jerry M is alive and well > and his "guess" was 18 of them were made complete......... > > Lenny > M-23#003 > Sea Horse > Phx, AZ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Betts" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home Date: 24 Feb 1999 17:37:15 -0500 bownez@juno.com wrote: > > Jack, > > Do you still have that for sale? I'm surprised. > I wish you were closer to me, I'd swoop on that little darling in a > heartbeat. > 28 degrees in Minnesota today, looking at 45 degrees this Friday. > Think spring! > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > M17 #92 > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Yes, and only one nibble. I may have to give the danged thing away. Jack -- Jack Betts Associate Editor The Charlotte Observer 19 W. Hargett St., Suite 507 PO Box 549 Raleigh, NC 27602 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jacobs Subject: M_Boats: Newbie questions Date: 24 Feb 1999 14:43:31 -0800 Hi, I'm new to this list and would like to introduce myself, as well as ask a few questions about the M17. I live in Victoria, British Columbia, (on Vancouver Island) and presently don't own a boat :( In my early teens I used to build and sail dinghies, and even went for a couple of brief cruises on a 30 footer. I used to dream of owning a "real" boat someday. But that was 35 years ago! Finally ... I discover I've time and resources to do something about that dream. My first thought was to build a boat, but I realized it's a lot cheaper to buy a good used one, and I'd be on the water a lot sooner. I've been surfing the web and am amazed at the amount of info on small boats! Chip's Pocket Cruiser Sailboat Page was my path to this list. (http://members.aol.com/ChipW2/PCruiser/index.htm) I definitely want a trailer-sailer because there are dozens of launch locations for great weekend sailing within 1/2 to 4 hours drive away. Initially my thoughts were to buy a 15 foot boat, but my partner is not mad about boating (yet:) so I upped the size to 20-22 ft. Then I read Lawrence Brown's "Small is Beautiful" where he states that "...the use a sailboat gets is in inverse proportion to it's size", it made good sense, so I downsized to the 18 ft area. That's when I discovered the Montgomery web site. However, I have a couple of questions to ask that were not covered on the M17 page: -Is the M17 "unsinkable" as the M15 is, and is it also "self-righting" ? (Yeah, I haven't been on the water for quite a while !) -How much harder is the M17 to set up and launch than the M15? -Is raising the mast a "one man" affair? -Is there a Montgomery "for sale" archive? -Is there a site that lists the upgrades made to the boat over the years ? -And last but not least … is there a decent M17 with trailer for sale around here (BC, AB, WA, OR, or even northern CA) ? I'm handy with tools, so cosmetic condition is not a big deal, but I want a sound boat and trailer. Thanks for listening! -Peter- -- Peter Jacobs Victoria BC Canada http://www.islandnet.com/~pjacobs/homepage.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Walter" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Messing About In Boats Date: 24 Feb 1999 19:01:13 -0500 See the online version at http://mims.com/maib/index.htm Enjoy, Bob M17 #37 Vero Beach, FL -----Original Message----- >Mac: are you familiar with "Messing About In Boats" which is published in >Wenham, Mass. If you haven't seen it, call Bob Hicks (publisher) at >(978)-774-0906 during working hours there and he'll send you a complimentary >copy. It's not "Small Boat Journal", but then what is??? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Good Old Boat Magazine Date: 24 Feb 1999 19:18:11 -0500 I can second the recommendation for MESSING ABOUT IN BOATS. All sorts of unusual articles about small boats - row boats, sail boats, small opower boats, house boats, and in the latest issue that came in today, tin boats made up in the Thousand Islands for children so that they could get from island to island to visit their firends. It's a fun publication. Connie Benneck M-15 #400 LEPPO Glastonbury, CT ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: RE:M_Boats: Newbie questions Date: 24 Feb 1999 20:15:50 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >-How much harder is the M17 to set up and launch than the M15? = -Is raising the mast a "one man" affair?< Welcome to the list. I am an M15 owner and for my priorities it is a better choice than the M1= 7. The priority for me was trailerability, single handing and annual cost. The M17 is quite trailerable but is quite heavier than the M15. The M17 mast can be raised with 1 person with mechanical advantage and caution. = The typical time to get an M15 at the dock and ready to sail is about 45 min. The three M17 I know of in the area all are kept at slips in Marina's. Thier owners bought them with the desire to have a slip and ar= e not keeping them in the slip because of trailerability. My guess is the the M17 would only take an additional 10 - 15 minutes over the M15 Single handing is a priority for me because my wife has never taken to th= e water. With the M15 I am less guilty about the $ spent for just my enjoyment as the $ are far less. She has been with me on numerous day sailors and has been out on our largest boat which was a 22 ft sailboat. = She just doesn't like it. = If you have a chance with your wife I would bet on the M17. It's roomie= r and less sensitive to crew weight as you move around. Good luck on your sailboat hunt Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 24 Feb 1999 21:58:46 -0500 Hi Ed.. Is this a blue M-23 with a opening port hole in the front of the cabin ??= = In Arizona ?? E-mail me at harveywilson@compuserve.com Harvey M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: Newbie questions Date: 24 Feb 1999 21:58:44 -0500 Hi = >>>-Is the M17 "unsinkable" as the M15 is, and is it also "self-righting"= ? (Yeah, I haven't been on the water for quite a while !)<<< Dunno...maybe Jerry can say...I've never tried sinking mine >>>-How much harder is the M17 to set up and launch than the M15? <<< Not having owned a M-15, I can't say for sure, but the Admiral and I usually set Stargazer up in 30 minutes, and another 10 minutes to jiggle around in the launch ramp...we're not old pros at this >>Is raising the mast a "one man" affair?<< Not usually. The Admiral helps here by pulling of the line I attach to t= he jib forestay when I tell her . I do the rest all myself. I'm sure an enterprising fellow can rig up a turning block or something to help raise the mast alone. = >>Is there a Montgomery "for sale" archive?<< You're on the West Coast...more Montgomeries there then here on the East Coast..just gotta be willing to travel. I found Stargazer in Ft. Myers, Fla...650 miles away. Connie= drove about 1500 or more to get his M-15. Giles drove about 1000. >>Is there a site that lists the upgrades made to the boat over the years= < There's a history article on Keith's website Harvey/ Cumming, Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom T. Wilkinson" <71574.2614@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 25 Feb 1999 00:58:29 -0500 I'm interested in getting opinions on M17 anchors and their handling. In the past I stored my anchor on the bow pulpit disconnected from the rode. I had a deck pipe near the bow and ran my rode up from a bucket on the v-berth through the pipe and connected it to the anchor when I was going to anchor. If you were to do it over again, would you recommend against the chain pipe and its innate lack of water tightness? Opinions? Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home Date: 25 Feb 1999 07:42:37 -0500 Jack My wife and I may be in Raleigh this Saturday, just for the day; any chance I could take a look at your dingy then? I don't think I'm going to be able to talk Sheila into it (we're building a house now, not a lot of extra money), but who knows? Robert PS I'm going to be leaving around noon today, so if I don't hear back from you, I may try calling from Raleigh on Saturday. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan_Harstad@datacard.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 25 Feb 1999 08:48:34 -0600 Another option for a small boat, is to leave the anchor in the cockpit area, launching the anchor from the cockpit. Works great on small boats, especailly when single handing. I'm interested in getting opinions on M17 anchors and their handling. In the past I stored my anchor on the bow pulpit disconnected from the rode. I had a deck pipe near the bow and ran my rode up from a bucket on the v-berth through the pipe and connected it to the anchor when I was going to anchor. If you were to do it over again, would you recommend against the chain pipe and its innate lack of water tightness? Opinions? Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Betts <"Jack Betts"@kpc.charlotte.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home Date: 25 Feb 1999 10:17:04 -0500 Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu wrote: > > Jack, where are you located? > > Randy W. > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home > Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet > Date: 2/22/99 11:15 PM > > Last chance for a great dinghy: 1980 Montgomery 7/11 lapstrake dinghy in > excellent condition, mast, boom, sail and sleeve; oars, cradle, bows and > cover, mahogany centerboard and rudder; rows, sails and motors like a > dream. Nobody was interested at $1,000, so now's the time to name your > price. Message jbetts@mindspring.com if you'd like to make a deal. > Jack Betts > > > Randy: Raleigh, NC. Jack -- Jack Betts Associate Editor The Charlotte Observer 19 W. Hargett St., Suite 507 PO Box 549 Raleigh, NC 27602 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Betts" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 7'11'' dink looking for a home Date: 25 Feb 1999 10:42:16 -0500 Robert Rubey wrote: > > Jack > My wife and I may be in Raleigh this Saturday, just for the day; any > chance I could take a look at your dingy then? I don't think I'm going > to be able to talk Sheila into it (we're building a house now, not a lot > of extra money), but who knows? > Robert > PS I'm going to be leaving around noon today, so if I don't hear back > from you, I may try calling from Raleigh on Saturday. Robert: I may have a deal with someone else, though he has not sent me a check, and thus it is not sold yet. I've dropped the price to $750 in hopes of moving it soon. I'll be leaving Raleigh Saturday morning around 9:30 a.m. Could you get there before then? It's our annual yacht club winter picnic that day, and my last day as commodore! My day time number is 919-834-8471; home is 919-787-0717. Thanks Jack -- Jack Betts Associate Editor The Charlotte Observer 19 W. Hargett St., Suite 507 PO Box 549 Raleigh, NC 27602 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Archives Search Engine Date: 25 Feb 1999 08:01:22 -0800 Keith Diehl wrote: > > We're now on-line with the archive search engine. Give it a try > and let me know what you think: > http://www.listquest.com/goto/montgomeryboats > > Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City > http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl Just tried it. Works good, Keith. A big improvement! Thank you. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: mast halyard Date: 25 Feb 1999 08:46:01 -0800 I recently changed the mast halyard on "Really" from wire/rope to 1/4" Sta Set polyester braid purchased @ West Marine. However, the sheaves @ the top of the mast made the 1/4" rope a really tight fit. I installed replacement sheaves purchased @ West Marine ( Ronstan # RF578 1" dia, 1/4' bore, 3/8" width @ $ 1.99 ea). They are the perfect solution. I changed to the all rope halyard because the wire halyard had developed a kink in it where it attaches to the head of the mainsail due to my changing from a rope luff to sail slugs a couple years ago. "Really" now has six lines - all leading to the cockpit, each a different color. These do not include the jib and gennaker sheets. If I was color blind I'd have to give up sailing and go back to golf. Rich Cottrell "Really" M15 Menlo Park, Ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 25 Feb 1999 12:15:50 EST In a message dated 2/24/99 23:01:16 US Mountain Standard Time, 71574.2614@compuserve.com writes: << If you were to do it over again, would you recommend against the chain pipe and its innate lack of water tightness? Opinions? Tom >> Tom I think hanging the anchor on the pulpit is a handy idea...........but a chain pipe on the bow of the 17 would "dampen" my spirits in the berth.........I used to keep my danforth, chain and rode in a canvas bag stored under the berth......... Lenny M23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roy Cameron Sarver" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Archives Search Engine Date: 25 Feb 1999 12:50:06 -0600 -----Original Message----- >Keith Diehl wrote: >> >> We're now on-line with the archive search engine. Give it a try >> and let me know what you think: >> http://www.listquest.com/goto/montgomeryboats >> >> Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City >> http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl I like it. Thank you. This will come in quite handy. Roy Sarver M15 URANIA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert A Pelc Subject: M_Boats: Betelgeuse ?? Date: 25 Feb 1999 17:44:11 -0500 Hello all, I have enjoyed following all the discussions for the last month or so, thought I might let you in on all what we have been busy with on M-15 #233. We have owned her for about 6 weeks or so and got only one sail in so far, we have a overnighter planed for this coming Wed. & Thurs on Lake Monroe. Really looking forward to it. Central Florida weather has been in the 70 s daytime 50 s at night with light breezes really nice. Now for the boat stuff, I removed and re bedded most all of the fittings on deck, no leaks now . We refinished all the teak with Cetol it looks good, I will have to replace the lower crib board sometime the corner is just about shot, but ok for now. The wiring was incomplete so we hooked everything up, put on a new bow light mounted on the pulpit with a homemade bracket we ran the wires inside the pulpit, also a mast head anchor light with another homemade bracket, installed a new waterproof connector to disconnect mast lights from the deck, and a cabin light. I installed my compass on the teak block under the teak bridge board it seems plenty visible and protected some what we will see how it works out there. Today I mounted various blocks to run the halyards back to the cockpit. There was no cleat at the base of the mast to secure the down haul so we mounted a cheek block that sends the down haul back up the mast to a clam cleat that was already there seems like it may be easier to pull up than down, we will see how that works, also added a small block on the aft end of the boom for the out haul line to pass through. We had the 2 hp Evenrude worked on new impeller and recoil starter. Plus a lot of elbow grease on the hull, wash and wax. All that is left that I know of is some small gel coat repairs and # 233 is A-1. Yesterday I was outside trying to put in practice what I rad on this list about reefing the main, it seemed to work as explained until I got to the point of securing the tack reef. QUESTION Is it tied to the boom or mast, or is it supposed to connect to the goose neck were the normal tack secures or some other way ? I seems like a small twisted D shackle in tack reef might make it possible to pin it off on the goose neck. Our main has one set or reef points, What wind speed do you reef at ? How do things balance out with reefed main and working jib ? What wind speed do you got to storm sail and how well do things balance out with one reef and storm sail ? What wind speed do you go to only reefed main or only storm sail ? So far all our sailing has been fair weather so any suggestions or rules of thumb would be appreciated. One other thing we want to change this boats name any good suggestions ? Bob Pelc M-15 #233 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Hiestand Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 25 Feb 1999 19:22:47 -0800 Larry, Will send info as soon as I decide not to pursue any further. Ed Larry Barkhuff wrote: > ED, can you give more info on the location of the M23 you wrote about.?? > Better question probably is WILL you give more info if you have it.? Larry > Barkhuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Betelgeuse ?? Date: 25 Feb 1999 21:50:04 EST To remove old "painted on" names, use spray oven cleaner. Spray on and let stand a few minutes and scrub off. You may need some polishing compound to finish off the job. Old vinyl names come off with a hair dryer to warm the vinyl and it peels off............. Reefing systems are varied so observe other boats and choose the one that looks easiest for your rig. Remember that things are pretty exciting when you're putting a reef in. Wind and waves can make the job difficult so "easy" is important. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Betelgeuse ?? Date: 25 Feb 1999 22:11:36 EST In a message dated 2/25/99 20:00:58 US Mountain Standard Time, Sandyal55@aol.com writes: << Remember that things are pretty exciting when you're putting a reef in. Wind and waves can make the job difficult so "easy" is important. Sandy >> Sandy YOU DA MAN !!!!!!! Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Walter" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 25 Feb 1999 23:07:52 -0500 Tom, I am a fan of big anchors and lots of rode, but on a boat our size it ain't easy. A chain locker on the foredeck would have been nice, but I'm sure Lyle took into account that weight at that height and the requisite reduction in headroom below. Personnally, I don't think the mess in the v-berth associated with spilled rode bucket and leaky chain pipe would be worth the convenience of having the rode and anchor in/on the bow all the time. I'd dearly like to have a bow roller on the M17, and I think I remember reading here of someone who has done that, but you still end up with where to put the rode when underway. The best compromise seems to be stowing the rode and anchor in one of the cockpit lockers. When needed, the rode can be rigged through the bow chock and then back to the cockpit and the anchor deployed and recovered from the cockpit. While we are at it, y'all, what's the M17 community using for an anchor these days? I currently have a really cheap danforth style, which frankly has only ever worked if I jump in and stomp the flukes into the bottom, so I am planning to move up to a Bruce. Enjoy, Bob -----Original Message----- >I'm interested in getting opinions on M17 anchors and their handling. In >the past I stored my anchor on the bow pulpit disconnected from the rode. >I had a deck pipe near the bow and ran my rode up from a bucket on the >v-berth through the pipe and connected it to the anchor when I was going to >anchor. If you were to do it over again, would you recommend against the >chain pipe and its innate lack of water tightness? Opinions? >Tom > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Walter" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 25 Feb 1999 23:07:52 -0500 Tom, I am a fan of big anchors and lots of rode, but on a boat our size it ain't easy. A chain locker on the foredeck would have been nice, but I'm sure Lyle took into account that weight at that height and the requisite reduction in headroom below. Personnally, I don't think the mess in the v-berth associated with spilled rode bucket and leaky chain pipe would be worth the convenience of having the rode and anchor in/on the bow all the time. I'd dearly like to have a bow roller on the M17, and I think I remember reading here of someone who has done that, but you still end up with where to put the rode when underway. The best compromise seems to be stowing the rode and anchor in one of the cockpit lockers. When needed, the rode can be rigged through the bow chock and then back to the cockpit and the anchor deployed and recovered from the cockpit. While we are at it, y'all, what's the M17 community using for an anchor these days? I currently have a really cheap danforth style, which frankly has only ever worked if I jump in and stomp the flukes into the bottom, so I am planning to move up to a Bruce. Enjoy, Bob -----Original Message----- >I'm interested in getting opinions on M17 anchors and their handling. In >the past I stored my anchor on the bow pulpit disconnected from the rode. >I had a deck pipe near the bow and ran my rode up from a bucket on the >v-berth through the pipe and connected it to the anchor when I was going to >anchor. If you were to do it over again, would you recommend against the >chain pipe and its innate lack of water tightness? Opinions? >Tom > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: M_Boats: Outboards, Sailboats, Lake Tahoe Date: 25 Feb 1999 21:24:00 -0800 (thanks to Dik Richardson for spotting this) From the Sacramento Bee Newswatch: South Lake Tahoe Agency exempts sailboat engines (Published Feb. 25, 1999) Sailboat owners whose craft use auxiliary engines were the only winners Wednesday at the end of another lengthy public debate about which two-stroke engines should be banned from Lake Tahoe come summer. The Tahoe Regional Planning Agency board was asked to exempt auxiliary engines on sailboats and low-powered outboard engines from a sweeping crackdown on "dirty" two-stroke engines. Sailboat owners asked to be allowed to use their two-stroke auxiliary engines for three more summers. Board members approved an exemption from the ban until Oct. 1, 2001. The board also was asked to extend the same concession to all two-stroke outboards of 10 horsepower or less, but decided to wait another month before making a final decision on low-powered two-stroke engines. -- Ian Harmer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 26 Feb 1999 06:45:16 -0600 Excellent choice on the Bruce. The first thing I purchased when I bought "Peeper" was a Bruce anchor, some chain and 200' of rode. Since our waters are quite shallow and "Peeper" quite small, I believe I shortened the rode. If I am going to only have 1 anchor (tho I do have a dinky "lunch" anchor) I would prefer to have a Bruce or a CQR. I haven't seen a CQR small enough for a 17 foot boat. Besides it would cost what the roller furling cost. Brian "Peeper" M-17 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:08 PM Tom, I am a fan of big anchors and lots of rode, but on a boat our size it ain't easy. A chain locker on the foredeck would have been nice, but I'm sure Lyle took into account that weight at that height and the requisite reduction in headroom below. Personnally, I don't think the mess in the v-berth associated with spilled rode bucket and leaky chain pipe would be worth the convenience of having the rode and anchor in/on the bow all the time. I'd dearly like to have a bow roller on the M17, and I think I remember reading here of someone who has done that, but you still end up with where to put the rode when underway. The best compromise seems to be stowing the rode and anchor in one of the cockpit lockers. When needed, the rode can be rigged through the bow chock and then back to the cockpit and the anchor deployed and recovered from the cockpit. While we are at it, y'all, what's the M17 community using for an anchor these days? I currently have a really cheap danforth style, which frankly has only ever worked if I jump in and stomp the flukes into the bottom, so I am planning to move up to a Bruce. Enjoy, Bob -----Original Message----- >I'm interested in getting opinions on M17 anchors and their handling. In >the past I stored my anchor on the bow pulpit disconnected from the rode. >I had a deck pipe near the bow and ran my rode up from a bucket on the >v-berth through the pipe and connected it to the anchor when I was going to >anchor. If you were to do it over again, would you recommend against the >chain pipe and its innate lack of water tightness? Opinions? >Tom > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 26 Feb 1999 13:32:12 EST In a message dated 2/25/99 9:09:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time, waldo99@gate.net writes: << I currently have a really cheap danforth style, which frankly has only ever worked if I jump in and stomp the flukes into the bottom, so I am planning to move up to a Bruce. >> Bob Anchoring depends greatly on the type of bottom you are trying to secure to. Even a"cheap" danforth should hold reasonably well in a sandy bottom if "set" correctly.......although the danforth looks mean, on rocky bottoms or mud flats, it's just a pussy cat.............unless you are in Arizona where it wraps around a submerged cactus or Palo Verde tree.............O-O-O-H.....Not Again!!!!!!!! Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Sweany Subject: M_Boats: Potter spotted in Subaru brochure! Date: 26 Feb 1999 12:19:58 -0800 (PST) I know this is a Montgomery list, but I've seen an occasional member of "the Potter faithful" sneaking around here. If so, they might want to forward this along. . . As a longtime Subaru guy and a current owner of a '99 Outback Limited, not to mention a prospective trailersailer owner who loves the 15-18 ft micro-cruiser class of boats, I'm surprised I didn't catch this until today. I was thumbing through a '99 Subaru Outback brochure and low and behold there it was: A big, color picture of a Subaru Outback towing a West Wight Potter 15. Anyone else ever catch this? Oh by the way, if anyone cares I ultimately decided NOT to buy that used Com-Pac 16 I was talking about a couple weeks back. I guess I just love the Montgomery 15 too darn much and am willing to wait 'till I find a keeper. Glad to be back on the Monty list. Fair winds everyone! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Potter spotted in Subaru brochure! Date: 26 Feb 1999 15:38:02 EST In a message dated 2/26/99 1:20:09 PM US Mountain Standard Time, brian_sweany@yahoo.com writes: << Oh by the way, if anyone cares I ultimately decided NOT to buy that used Com-Pac 16 I was talking about a couple weeks back. I guess I just love the Montgomery 15 too darn much and am willing to wait 'till I find a keeper. >> Good for you !!!!!!!!! Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Potter spotted in Subaru brochure! Date: 26 Feb 1999 12:44:35 -0800 Brian - I had meant to send you a note earlier regarding your decision process and priorities. More than average maturity (regardless of age) in keeping your family and financial issues in perspective while not giving up on the boat. Glad to hear you're still zeroed in on a Montgomery. You'll find one. Or perhaps a Potter 'till the Montgomery comes along. I think you've recognized the importance of getting on the water in a way which accommodates your other needs. You might be interested in looking at http://www.cruisecortez.com/webbbs/trailersailor/index.cgi?read=7159 (my credentials?? look at my tagline) Best -- dwf "In a power boat, you get there in a hurry, in a sailboat, you are already there" V-17 #36; M-15 #189; P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" - Ridgecrest, CA -----Original Message----- .....................snip............................ > >Oh by the way, if anyone cares I ultimately decided NOT to buy that >used Com-Pac 16 I was talking about a couple weeks back. I guess I >just love the Montgomery 15 too darn much and am willing to wait 'till >I find a keeper. > >Glad to be back on the Monty list. Fair winds everyone! >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: M_Boats: an invitation Date: 26 Feb 1999 16:11:03 CST 02/26/1999 An Invitation Join a friendly group of trailer sailors for a weekend of sailing Lake Buchanan, Texas. The plan: March 12-14 I'll be there ( Tom Bodine ) at the Dam Park to welcome any comers I expect to take Friday off. So I can be there in plenty of time to welcome you. Tentative plan is to sail north to the falls on Saturday morning camp there over night and come back Sunday morning. I can adjust this anyway you like. Please let me know if you're coming by March 11. Also let me know if you need anything, or I can be of any help whatsoever on this trip. # Regards Tom Bodine # Skipper "Frimi" P-19 #1019 Contacts: Info on the area: http://marktm.simplenet.com/cts/ ( Lake Buchanan, Tx ) ( Mark Melchior's excellent site ) Austin area: tbodine@seasick.sps.mot.com (Tom Bodine) College Station, Tx: Randy Watkins home 409-693-9942 email: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 26 Feb 1999 19:24:20 EST LENNY; When you anchor in Az, try rafting up with someone who's already anchored. Then leave in the morning for an early sail. Either that or having dive gear as standard equipment. Works every time. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Anchors and M17 Date: 26 Feb 1999 19:44:24 EST In a message dated 2/26/99 5:27:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time, Sandyal55@aol.com writes: << LENNY; When you anchor in Az, try rafting up with someone who's already anchored. >> Sandy ROFLMAO.............. too much!!!!!!!!! Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: Brian's back Date: 26 Feb 1999 17:30:15 -0800 Hello again, Brian, The Compac a tad heavy for the 'ol Subaru? Dennis has a good point going with the Potter idea. I used to own one and really liked it- extremely easy to get in and out of water, set up, trailer. Stable, too. My dear husband (Mr. Capri 14.2) thought it was too slow. They are numerous and inexpensive. Anyway, I'm still M15-less and came across one in your vicinity. An '86 M15 ,2hp Yamaha, sails, rails,ladder,anchor, jackets, trailer. Asking $5900 I think. It's at Hooper's Yachts in Mn. 1-800-377-8795 List member rland@win.bright.net saw this one and told me about it. Good luck, Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: Nor'sea plant Date: 27 Feb 1999 09:15:45 -0800 To those of you who have visited Nor'sea Yachts: Where is it located? We would like to visit there today, if possible. We'll call first of course, but where are they? Thanks, Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "HTM" Date: 27 Feb 1999 13:27:33 PST Has anyone sailed either an M-15 or 17 with an autopilot and been able to leave the helm to take a nap or do some other of life's neccesities? Tod Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: M_Boats: Re: autopilot Date: 27 Feb 1999 10:35:37 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BE623C.EA1ECF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tod, =20 =20 Indeed, I have used an autopilot on various boats for decades. Currently = am using a Autohelm 1000 on my M15. I think they are great! It allows me = to fix lunch, or to examine a chart carefully, go forward, or just take = wee nap. Manning the helm for a couple of hours is great fun, but if = it's an all day trek the autopilot is the ticket for sure. Actually, = presently I have my Autopilot receiving data constantly from my GPS, and = when instructed to do so, it automatically corrects for any course = deviation. This is nice when there is something to your lee that you = don't want to approach.=20 Of course we must continue to practice the manual methods of = navigation, not just as a backup, but because it is an intriguing art. =20 Dan =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BE623C.EA1ECF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tod,
 
 
Indeed, I have used an = autopilot on=20 various boats for decades. Currently am using a Autohelm 1000 on my M15. = I think=20 they are great! It allows me to fix lunch, or to examine a chart = carefully, go=20 forward, or just take wee nap. Manning the helm for a couple of hours is = great=20 fun, but if it's an all day trek the autopilot is the ticket for sure. = Actually,=20 presently I have my Autopilot receiving data constantly from my GPS, and = when=20 instructed to do so, it automatically corrects for any course deviation. = This is=20 nice when there is something to your lee that you don't want to = approach.=20
    Of course = we must=20 continue to practice the manual methods of navigation, not just as a = backup, but=20 because it is an intriguing art.
 
    = Dan
 
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BE623C.EA1ECF00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "HTM" Date: 27 Feb 1999 14:27:22 PST Dan: Hey, that's great! Thanks!...I just checked out the autohelm page and = read up on it. Is the M-15 stable enough that capsizing is only a concern in really roug= h weather? (I currently own a 17' Thistle, www.thistleclass.com, and am planning on = switching to a boat with a small cabin one of these days since I enjoy cruising) Tod Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Sweany Subject: Re: M_Boats: Nor'sea plant Date: 27 Feb 1999 11:41:48 -0800 (PST) I'll be visiting Bob Eeg and Company in May and am trying to figure it out myself. I'm pretty sure it's in the Laguna area, Orange County if I'm not mistakin'. ---Francene Lebowitz wrote: > > To those of you who have visited Nor'sea Yachts: Where is it located? > We would like to visit there today, if possible. We'll call first of > course, but where are they? > Thanks, > Fran > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "L. Ingalls" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Nor'sea plant Date: 27 Feb 1999 12:26:37 -0800 At 09:15 AM 2/27/1999 -0800, you wrote: >To those of you who have visited Nor'sea Yachts: Where is it located? >We would like to visit there today, if possible. We'll call first of >course, but where are they? >Thanks, >Fran > Fran, Bob checks his e-mail often, so you might try that, but same day is a bit short notice. bobeeg@earthlink.net Best to you, Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "L. Ingalls" Subject: M_Boats: M15's Date: 27 Feb 1999 12:41:08 -0800 Peter, I have an M15 (love it!) and I'm moving to Seattle at the end of March. If you like, I'd be happy to take you for a sail and let you try the boat yourself. In the meantime, here are my comments. The M15 is and always will be a fifteen foot boat, which means that it has limitations that you don't have on a larger boat, such as space, speed, and weather. One definitely must reef down much sooner in a small boat than a larger one. =20 One the plus side, I can take my M15 into areas that would be impossible for a larger boat. My maintenance cost is minimal, and my tow vehicle is a small Saturn. Other cost, like sails, anchors, slips are all reasonable. Bob Eeg builds both the M15 and M17, and he does a beautiful job on both. = =20 You can't go wrong with either. At 02:43 PM 2/24/1999 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, >I'm new to this list and would like to introduce myself, as well as ask >a few questions about the M17. > >I live in Victoria, British Columbia, (on Vancouver Island) and >presently don't own a boat :( > >In my early teens I used to build and sail dinghies, and even went for a >couple of brief cruises on a 30 footer. I used to dream of owning a >"real" boat someday. But that was 35 years ago! > >Finally ... I discover I've time and resources to do something about >that dream. My first thought was to build a boat, but I realized it's a >lot cheaper to buy a good used one, and I'd be on the water a lot >sooner. >I've been surfing the web and am amazed at the amount of info on small >boats! Chip's Pocket Cruiser Sailboat Page was my path to this list. >(http://members.aol.com/ChipW2/PCruiser/index.htm) > >I definitely want a trailer-sailer because there are dozens of launch >locations for great weekend sailing within 1/2 to 4 hours drive away. >Initially my thoughts were to buy a 15 foot boat, but my partner is not >mad about boating (yet:) so I upped the size to 20-22 ft. Then I read >Lawrence Brown's "Small is Beautiful" where he states that "...the use a >sailboat gets is in inverse proportion to it's size", it made good >sense, so I downsized to the 18 ft area. That's when I discovered the >Montgomery web site. > >However, I have a couple of questions to ask that were not covered on >the M17 page: >-Is the M17 "unsinkable" as the M15 is, and is it also "self-righting" ? >(Yeah, I haven't been on the water for quite a while !) > >-How much harder is the M17 to set up and launch than the M15?=20 > >-Is raising the mast a "one man" affair? > >-Is there a Montgomery "for sale" archive? > >-Is there a site that lists the upgrades made to the boat over the years >? > >-And last but not least =85 is there a decent M17 with trailer for sale >around here (BC, AB, WA, OR, or even northern CA) ? I'm handy with >tools, so cosmetic condition is not a big deal, but I want a sound boat >and trailer. > >Thanks for listening! > >-Peter-=20 > >--=20 >Peter Jacobs >Victoria BC Canada >http://www.islandnet.com/~pjacobs/homepage.htm >=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bill grove Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 27 Feb 1999 15:59:11 -0500 I am new to the list and have just learned about the Mongomery 23. I = currently have a Potter 19 and want to move up to a higher quality = larger boat. If anyone has comments about the 23 (good or bad) please = post them. When was the boat produced ? and how many ? I have sent a = note to Norsea and told them that they need to make them again since the = 17 is a little small for me and the 27 (my dream boat) is too expensive = at this time. bill grove ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: M_Boats: Re: Date: 27 Feb 1999 15:16:46 -0800 I use a Navik windvane on M 23 Sadhana, in addition to allowing me to attend to life's necessities it permits me to unbalance the rig while reefing without rounding up or falling off. With >5 kts apparent wind the heading stays within +/-5 deg. Dick HTM wrote: > Has anyone sailed either an M-15 or 17 with an autopilot and been > able to leave the helm to take a nap or do some other of life's > neccesities? > > Tod Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: replacement sheaves Date: 27 Feb 1999 16:51:37 -0800 Earlier this week I posted that the replacement sheaves on Really's mast work perfect with 1/4" rope halyard. Seth Macinko e-mailed me and explained that he also installed the identical sheaves on his M15 # 200 when he changed to rope halyards. He found that the smaller diameter of the replacement sheaves meant that the line fed just that much closer to the mast. His rope halyard scraped against the mast itself. He stated that he has just put the old sheaves back in after several years with the replacement sheaves. This concerned me because I imagined ten M15 owners out cutting their wire halyards and ordering new replacement sheaves this weekend. I experimented with Really's new setup this afternoon. The replacement sheaves are not perfect, as I had previously stated. There is a very slight rubbing of the rope halyard at the forward top of the mast when raising and lowering the main. Without the main attached to the halyard, there is also a slight rubbing aft of the mast. I don't believe I'd have noticed it if Seth had not brought it to my attention. At the present time I'm satisfied with the replacement sheaves and I have no intention of changing to another setup. The location of the borings at the top of the mast may be slightly different on Seth's M15 than mine. I recommend that you take some careful measurements before changing to the setup I suggested. Rich Cottrell M15 # 288 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: macinkos@micronet.net (Seth Macinko) Subject: Re: M_Boats: replacement sheaves Date: 27 Feb 1999 16:08:22 -0900 One slight correction to Rich's account of my experiences with this issue: >He found that the smaller diameter of the replacement >sheaves meant that the line fed just that much closer to the mast. >His rope halyard scraped against the mast itself. He stated that he >has just put the old sheaves back in after several years with the >replacement sheaves. > Actually, I returned to the original sheaves right away after noticing how the halyard would rub on the mast itself if I used the replacement sheaves (mounted in the original holes). I figured the slight rubbing of the rope at the top of the masthead fitting was better than that imposed by the mast/masthead fitting joint itself. I have been using the all-rope main halyard for several years now and haven't experienced any chafing problems but still plan to someday replace the original wire sheaves with ones designed for rope. Seth M M-15 #200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: Date: 27 Feb 1999 21:15:29 EST Tod Make the switch to an M-17, you'll appreciate the extra room for cruising. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 23 Date: 27 Feb 1999 23:57:18 EST Bill; Rumor has it that 18 M23's were built but I've heard of one or two that were finished by owners so maybe 20 exist. Three or four are in Tucson and three are in the Phoenix area. I've seen one in San Diego at Marina Cortez on Harbor Island and one is for sale in the Frisco area. Yachts 101 Home Page Check this homepage for details. Dick Lane is on the list and is the seller. They are a well built boat and sail very well. A 3/4 ton, big block gas or diesel truck is needed as they weigh 5800 Lbs on a trailer. Good luck. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Fell Subject: Re: M_Boats: Nor'sea plant Date: 27 Feb 1999 20:56:24 -0800 Francene Lebowitz wrote: > > To those of you who have visited Nor'sea Yachts: Where is it located? > We would like to visit there today, if possible. We'll call first of > course, but where are they? > Thanks, > FranFran, I think Bob's plant is in Rancho Cocamanga. Its about 1 hour drive from Los Angles. Bob is terrific, and his boats are beautiful. He is very busy, so give him enough advance notice. john fell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walter P. E. Stansbury" Subject: M_Boats: Unsubscribe Date: 28 Feb 1999 01:41:23 -0500 To Whom It May Concern, Please unscribe this addressee. Although this is a great idea, for now just too many messages. Thanks, Wally ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jacobs Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15's Date: 28 Feb 1999 09:29:54 -0800 L. Ingalls wrote: > > Peter, > I have an M15 (love it!) and I'm moving to Seattle at the end of March. If > you like, I'd be happy to take you for a sail and let you try the boat > yourself. Thanks! Please stay in touch and let me know when you're settled. I'm still see-sawing on the M15/M17 issue, and I guess it's just a matter of a boat coming available, and going with my gut feeling on it. TTFN -Peter- -- Peter Jacobs Victoria BC Canada http://www.islandnet.com/~pjacobs/homepage.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Stuneck Subject: M_Boats: M-17's FOR SALE - MINN. Date: 28 Feb 1999 18:59:24 -0600 The below listed boats are M-17's and one M-15 for sale at Hooper's Yachts in Woodbury, MN. (I-94 east of St. Paul and south on Manning (Hwy 15) 1/2 mile. If someone's looking, here ya go: Hooper's Yachts, 599 Manning Ave. So., Afton, MN. 55001 Phone: 651-436-8797 Phone: 1-800-377-8795 1975 M-17 (Don Cheatham's), Red hull with black see-thru hatch Lexan; 4 sails; roller furling with lines lead back to cockpit. Rails, trailer w/extension; compass; motor not mentioned, although they have several in stock. $4995 1977 M-17 - White hull w/blue stripe (?), 4 sails, 9.9 Johnson, trailer, Compass, Knotmeter, Depth sounder, Autopilot, railes, lines. $5500 1980 M-17 white hull; 2 sails, 7.5 Merc, VHF, compass, ladder $6800 1985 M-17 white, 2 sails, trailer, 6 hp Johnson $7600 1986 M-15 2 sails, 2 hp Yamaha, trlr, rails, anchoer, ladder, jackets. $5900 I posted the numbers in case you want to call them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15's Date: 28 Feb 1999 18:21:26 PST Greets, For those of you who haven't hit Peter's home page, I recommend you do. There is a link to a page with more trailer sailing than I thought possible. Peter, thanks for putting that out there. Hope you find your boat soon. Steve >L. Ingalls wrote: >> >> Peter, >> I have an M15 (love it!) and I'm moving to Seattle at the end of March. If >> you like, I'd be happy to take you for a sail and let you try the boat >> yourself. > >Thanks! Please stay in touch and let me know when you're settled. I'm >still see-sawing on the M15/M17 issue, and I guess it's just a matter of >a boat coming available, and going with my gut feeling on it. > >TTFN > >-Peter- >-- >Peter Jacobs >Victoria BC Canada >http://www.islandnet.com/~pjacobs/homepage.htm > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: WARNING!!! VIRUS!!! Re: M_Boats: M-17's FOR SALE - MINN. Date: 28 Feb 1999 19:36:42 -0700 The original message posted by Fritz has a worm attached to it. DO NOT OPEN THE ATTACHED FILE HAPPY99.EXE. Fritz, your machine is infected. Do not post any further messages until you successfully run an anti-virus program that can deal with HAPPY99. Anyone else who did open the file, you also need a current anti-virus program. ---------- > From: Fritz Stuneck > To: > Subject: M_Boats: M-17's FOR SALE - MINN. > Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 6:45 PM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills@bright.net" Subject: Re: WARNING!!! VIRUS!!! Re: M_Boats: M-17's FOR SALE - MINN. Date: 28 Feb 1999 21:52:14 PST Hmmmm...I saw that it was an executable file and decided against executing it just on intuition....I don't know what I would do if it was a virus....*ugh* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: Central Command - Happy (http://www.avp.com/happy/body_happy.html) Date: 28 Feb 1999 19:44:37 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE6352.C5D39B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Information and removal instructions for the HAPPY99 Worm can be found at the attached link. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------=_NextPart_000_01BE6352.C5D39B00 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Central Command - Happy.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Central Command - Happy (Internet Shortcut) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Central Command - Happy.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.avp.com/happy/body_happy.html Modified=A09140508D63BE0170 ------=_NextPart_000_01BE6352.C5D39B00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Preston" Subject: Re: WARNING!!! VIRUS!!! Re: M_Boats: M-17's FOR SALE - MINN. Date: 28 Feb 1999 20:37:01 -0700 How do I get rid of this virus?? John Preston -----Original Message----- >The original message posted by Fritz has a worm attached to it. >DO NOT OPEN THE ATTACHED FILE HAPPY99.EXE. > >Fritz, your machine is infected. Do not post any further >messages until you successfully run an anti-virus program that >can deal with HAPPY99. > >Anyone else who did open the file, you also need a current >anti-virus program. > >---------- >> From: Fritz Stuneck >> To: >> Subject: M_Boats: M-17's FOR SALE - MINN. >> Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 6:45 PM >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Re: WARNING!!! VIRUS!!! Date: 28 Feb 1999 22:09:18 -0800 Keith, With fear and trembling I'm sending this to you after attempting to disable the virus in my computer. Yes, dumb me... I set off the "fireworks" before I got your warning. Please advise if I stopped the worm. If I did not eliminate it, I'll have to go to my friendly computer guru tomorrow before I mess up big time. Joe Kidd