From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 01 Feb 2000 00:07:30 -0800 Larry, you do have a keel pivot pin, it was the drop limit pin that South Bay Boat Works lost in '97 and replaced with (horrors) a SS nut and bolt. Regards, Dick LBarkhuff@cs.com wrote: > Don't have one to knock out...it got lost when the last piece of work was > done to the bottom......Larry .. Thanks for the quick answer... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 01 Feb 2000 15:00:57 EST Thanks Dick, I was using the wrong terminology..... Cleaned and repacked all the bearings and replaced the seals this last week.....That grease was really old stuff....Got two new tires, new rims, but the brakes should go a few K more. Have cleaned the floor with TSP and it looks good. Need to clean more and sand before finishing wood. Plan to leave for the Florida Keys asap. Lost a couple people, so have to get business back on track this week. All that paperwork we did was worthless. No body cared when I registered boat or trailer..... Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Shawn: more motor choice stuff Date: 01 Feb 2000 15:07:14 EST In a message dated 1/30/2000 3:31:49 PM, you wrote: <> Shawn, Thought I would offer a couple of observations that might affect your motor=20 choice. I have an M15 in which I have cruised the Gulf Islands, Jervis=20 Inlet, Desolation Sound, and other British Columbia waters. If you know=20 anything about BC Cruising, you know that this involves considerably more=20 motoring than sailing, a good deal of which will be punching through steep=20 chop and strong currents. Because you will likely spend proportionally more=20 time motoring, You are going to want something that will push you at, or=20 close to hull speed in a wider variety of conditions. While it is true that= =20 you can push heavy displacement boats with tiny motors as some others have=20 suggested, I think that it is important to distinguish pushing a boat in=20 relatively flat water (and then maybe only to and from the dock), and trying= =20 to make decent headway over long distances while bucking the substantial=20 currents, chop, and swell that are characteristic of Puget Sound/the Straits= ,=20 or especially points farther north. =20 While the M15 or M17 hardly qualify as heavy displacement, I find that my 2H= P=20 Honda is just adequate (in other words, a tiny bit more power would be nice,= =20 but the motor does OK) for the M15 in Pacific Northwest conditions. At twic= e=20 the displacement, I wouldn't consider anything less than 5HP for the M17=20 *considering your local conditions*. As for the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke question, there are some local issues you=20 might want to consider--especially if you intend to haul your boat up north:= =20 The BC ferries (maybe Washington State Ferries too?) only allow you to carry= =20 a limited amount of gasoline in cans (including an internal tank). =20 Enforcement varies from ferry to ferry, and from attendant to attendant, but= =20 I have been made to pour all excess fuel into my truck's tank, and then fill= =20 the empty containers with water prior to being allowed to board (they are=20 concerned with the explosive potential of empty tanks with tiny amounts of=20 gas--and hence vapor). Because my Honda is a four-stroke, the fuel for the outboard is the same I=20 use in my truck, and pouring excess fuel into the truck is not a problem=20 (whereas it is not a good idea to pour two-stroke mix into your car's=20 tank--especially with newer fuel injected, multi-sensor equipped=20 cars/trucks). It also affords the ability to pour any unused fuel at the en= d=20 of a trip (ferry or no), or at the end of the season into your vehicle. Thi= s=20 latter point may be the more important one. If you use your boat=20 infrequently, a four-stroke will be a better choice. The gas/oil mix used i= n=20 two stoke motors begins to break down shortly after initial mixing. =20 Manufacturers will tell you not to mix more than you know you can use in a=20 three week period. I don't know about you, but when I am off cruising, I=20 don't know how much fuel I am going to use. Getting stuck with two three=20 gallons of old gas/oil mix is not fun. Another strong argument for a four-stroke is their economy relative to=20 two-strokes. Because Northwest cruising involves a disproportionate amount=20 of motoring, this becomes more of a factor (at least it does for me,=20 especially if I am going to be 70-100 nm from a fuel dock). I have made the= =20 75 mile round trip (motoring 80% of the time) from Egmont to Princess Louisa= =20 Inlet and back on less than four gallons. I would have to imagine that I=20 would have used at least twice that with a two-stroke. My final argument for the four-stroke is that it is clearly the better choic= e=20 from an environmental standpoint. I won't rehash all of the statistics here= ,=20 but suffice it to say that modern four strokes are vastly cleaner burning,=20 and don't pour the considerable quantities of unburned gas and oil into the=20 water that two-strokes do. Even the newer generation of direct injected=20 two-strokes (which, by the way, appear to be available only in larger motors= )=20 don't come close to even the older four-stroke engines. Even if you don't=20 share my bleeding heart position with regard to the environment, you might=20 want to consider that certain lakes, rivers, municipalities are working to=20 ban 2-strokes outright. The penalty in initial purchase price and additiona= l=20 weight may prove preferable to the alternative of having to junk the motor=20 down the road because you bought a two-stroke (admittedly, this may be a=20 number of years off--though I'd like to see it sooner). There has been some= =20 talk on this list about using electric trolling motors. While this seems=20 like a great idea for getting from/returning to the dock/ramp, I don't see=20 it as viable for any extended use in the Sound. If all you were going to do= =20 was daysail out of Shilshole, you might get by with this or a 2HP Honda. =20 Finally, I would argue that you don't really want a motor with an internal=20 tank--at least not one with no provision for an external tank. I can say=20 with some experience that fueling under way is not fun (my 2HP Honda is an=20 internal only setup). Even in flat water, it is easy to spill fuel or=20 overfill the tank. In rough water, it takes some real effort. Even after=20 devising a decent external fuel tank/bulb-type hand pump /shutoff valve=20 system for fueling while under way, I found it to be an annoyance that I=20 would forgo if possible. Also, it is one thing to tip my 28 lb. Honda to=20 pour out unused fuel, but could you imagine trying to do this with a 60 lb.=20 outboard? I am not aware of one, but if you could find a make/model that ha= d=20 both an internal tank with a hookup for an external tank, I suppose that=20 would be a nice combination (though I would want to be able to drain the=20 internal tank without having to tip it). So, for what it's worth, I vote for a 5HP Honda Longshaft with the optional=20 alternator, or at least a four-stroke of similar power/weight. I have owned= =20 two Honda's, and have been pleased with both. Initial purchase price is=20 high, and parts expensive, but fortunately, I have never bought anything but= =20 spark plugs, some spares (spare prop, water pump impeller and gasket, and=20 some extra shear pins) I recently helped a friend deliver a Freedom 21 with= =20 a Honda 5 Longshaft, and was very impressed with its power, economy, and wit= h=20 how quiet it was (especially considering that it is a one cylinder). I don'= t=20 have any experience with the new Nissan (Tohatsu) four-stroke 5HP, but the=20 popularity of the Nissan/Tohatsu line (and the fact that West, Boat US, and= =20 others are selling them)should mean good parts and service availability. =20 So, I hope at least some of this was helpful. Good Luck! Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9" I=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wcpritchett@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shawn: more motor choice stuff Date: 01 Feb 2000 17:47:08 EST Shawn, I will chime in with my .02 cents about an engine for your boat without getting into the environmental issues. Engine weight is a consideration...find out how much your boat can handle without burdening. Power issue depends on where you will be motoring so figure if you need the extra punch that way. The bigger engines will have an alternator which the smaller may not. I'd go with what the other Montgomery folks are saying for hp. Remember, a small 4 stroke will weigh what a larger 2 stroke does. Concerning 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. My position is that the only practical reason for a 4 stroke is fuel range and possibly to keep smoke out of the cockpit. Longevity of a 2 stroke is plenty long and can be measured in the 1000s of hrs if treated properly. 2 strokes need only decarbonizing once a season and that can be done with a aerosol type treatment. 2 strokes have a built in corrosion protection with the oil that 4 strokes don't. The jury is still out with me if this is a real issue but I can't see why it wouldn't be a problem that shows up in a few years on the 4 strokes used on salt water. 4 strokes have valves to adjust, timing belt/chain to change and crancase oil to change...this is a big hassle to me. This is on top the regular H20 pump and regular tune up stuff as on all engines. Fuel can be stabilized with Sta-Bil and will actually last months before degrading so this really isn't something I consider an issue with either 2 or 4 stroke. In reality, I've used gas that was months old many times and had no problems. Gas spoilage is more of a problem with the 4 stroke if you carry the same amount as a 2 stroke. External tanks are REAL difficult to fill in choppy weather...I consider the external tank mandatory. You can buy a bigger 2 stroke for the same money as the smaller 4 stroke if budget is of concern (My 50 hp 4 stroke costs the same as a 75hp 2 stroke). I am still trying to justify the extra cost of my 4 stroke but it doesn't pan out unless the engine lasts 4000 hrs.. Ok, that my thoughts...I have several thousand hours on 2 stroke outboards and only 150 hrs on my 50hp 4 stroke. The fuel burn is so small it is amazing but if I had to do it over again it would be a 75 hp 2 stroke for the same $$$. Thanks, Bill P. M-10 #122 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Shawn: more motor choice stuff Date: 01 Feb 2000 22:47:10 EST I have a M17 with an Yachtwin 8, long shaft. The motor is designed for sailboats with a propeller and lower gear ratio set for torgue rather than rpms. It is overkill for most situations, but I was caught out once in a big blow and had to motor back to the marina, straight into the wind!!! I had it cranked up all the way and I was able to go at 2 knots. I'm not sure I could have made any progress with a smaller motor. John M17 #372 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: blocking up trailer Date: 01 Feb 2000 22:11:40 +0100 Hi all, Had a question about putting the boat/trailer up on blocks to take weight off the tires during winter storage. Do the tires need to be totally off the ground so that they can spin, or just raised a small amount, but not moveable? Thanks, Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: blocking up trailer Date: 02 Feb 2000 10:50:29 -0800 On my M 23 I would almost unload the tires for my summer storage and cover them with plywood sheets to keep off the UV> Dick > Do the tires need to be > totally off the ground so that they can spin, or just raised a small > amount, but not moveable? > Thanks, > Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Russ Browne" Subject: Re: M_Boats: blocking up trailer Date: 02 Feb 2000 14:20:19 EST This year, for the first time, I blocked up the trailer to get the tires completely off the ground then covered them with super large black trash bags. This was after replacing 3 tires which were 10 years old, but had less than 5000 miles of travel. The UV had worked on the sidewalls to the point they were cracked and leaked air. I tried to get the opaque bags that RV'ers use when storing their rigs, but they were too large. The tire dealer recommended the trash bag approach. Russ Browne "Windsong" ComPac 19 Lake St Clair Clinton Township, MI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 13:18:34 +0000 Well then measure the #&*@% hole!!! Jerry LBarkhuff@cs.com wrote: > > Don't have one to knock out...it got lost when the last piece of work was > done to the bottom......Larry .. Thanks for the quick answer... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Boles Subject: RE: M_Boats: SUMMARY: 4 stroke motor opinions Date: 02 Feb 2000 13:09:26 -0800 Thanks to all who replied to my earlier query about best size 4 stroke to use with M17 in cruising the North West Waters. Opinions varied as to the hp required, but everyone thought an external tank was the best way to go. Most respondents thought that a minimum of 5hp on a M17 was required to battle currents in NW. Others thought this was overkill. I also had advice to get a two-stroke. I am committed to 4 stroke for environmental reasons and hope other M owners are as well. I was advised to check WEST Marine for their 5hp Nissan. I called, and they are no longer carrying it. They have substituted a Merc 5hp but sell it _only_ in the stores (no catalog sales). again, thanks for advice. cheers, Shawn Boles 'Grey Mist' (M17 Hull#276 - 1978) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 16:42:34 EST Did That too!!!!!! But we are talking about micros here between 1/32 and 1/64........doesn't the pin have to be very snug to keep from working out of the hole........I am not an engineer, man, I sell slurpee for a living!!!!! and my ruler is too big to go through the hole to get length....So I put a string through, but the string stretched...I can't win......LB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jacobs Subject: RE: M_Boats: SUMMARY: 4 stroke motor opinions Date: 02 Feb 2000 14:46:25 -0800 At 01:09 PM 2/2/00 -0800, you wrote, in part: >Most respondents thought that a minimum of 5hp on a M17 was required to >battle currents in NW. Others thought this was overkill. I also had advice >to get a two-stroke. I am committed to 4 stroke for environmental reasons >and hope other M owners are as well. FWIW, I'm in the Northest (our Southwest in Canada :) and have a Mariner 5hp 2 stroke. I'd like a 4 stroke better, but as far as 5 hp goes, it has stood me well in all kinds of weather. The boat travels at just under hull speed in smooth water when the throttle is only 1/4 open. In rough and windy weather 3/4 throttle makes good headway. Opening it up full only creates more noise, but no more speed . -Peter- M17 # 416 =========== Peter Jacobs, Victoria BC Canada http://www.islandnet.com/~pjacobs/homepage.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jacobs Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 14:55:44 -0800 At 04:42 PM 2/2/00 EST, you wrote: >Did That too!!!!!! But we are talking about micros here between 1/32 and >1/64........doesn't the pin have to be very snug to keep from working out of >the hole........I am not an engineer, man, I sell slurpee for a living!!!!! > > and my ruler is too big to go through the hole to get length....So I >put a string through, but the string stretched...I can't win......LB Hey, if you sell slurpees, a plastic drinking straw makes a great measuring tool. If one isn't long enough, tape a couple together. -Peter- M17 # 416 =========== Peter Jacobs, Victoria BC Canada http://www.islandnet.com/~pjacobs/homepage.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 19:24:54 EST Finally a correct solution.....if I fill the straw with epoxy, voila!!!! LB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerry Linderman Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 17:54:22 -0700 please unsubsribe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: SUMMARY: 4 stroke motor opinions Date: 02 Feb 2000 16:57:59 -0800 Shawn, While you are doing your outboard research, check to see if the small horsepower Mercury isn't the same as a Nissan/Tohatsu with different cosmetics (and usually a whole bunch cheaper). When I was shopping -- before I decided to buy the Honda 2 hp for my M-15 -- I discovered that Tohatsu manufactures many of the Nissan and Mercury outboards. I discovered that Mercury also adds a solid state ignition, which the smaller Nissan/Tohatsu does not have. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 19:59:03 -0500 Larry, Try using a piece of dowel to check the length of the pin. The dowel doesn't stretch: can be pushed through the hole to the other side; and you can get a good reading on the length required. A piece of 1/2 inch dowel will tell you if the diameter is right and then give you the length you need. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: blocking up trailer Date: 02 Feb 2000 19:54:10 -0500 Fran, I'm not an expert on the subject, but from what I've read, the main reason to remove the wheels from the trailer in winter, is to protect the tires from the effects of ultra vilot light: i.e., rubber degradation. That is why the mobile home users have tire covers that they can place over the tires when they are parked, to protect them from the sunlight. This winter I took off my wheels - jacking up the trailer frame and putting it on jack stands and blocks - and stored the tires and wheels in my garage. Is it worth the effort? I'm not sure. Tires rot out long before they wear out: you are protecting against sun rot by removing the wheels and tires. If you jack up the trailer to take the load off the tire, that will keep the tire from getting a flat spot, but unless you cover the tire and protect it from the sunlight, the rubber will still rot away. I guess you can call it the "mental" situation: you've protected your tires, so you know that they won't fail you when you are on the road. If you don't protect them, well, then you'll have that nagging little worry - will they be alright, or won't they. For the peace of mind, it's better to err on the safe side. When I picked up my M15 in Panama City, FL the trailer tires had cracks in the sidewalls. I wanted to replace the tires before heading for Connecticut but couldn't get any. So, since I had a brand new spare wheel and tire on the trailer, and everyone assured me that "all trailer tires look like that in Florida", I took off and headed north. We had no problem at all with the existing tires - despite the cracks in the sidewalls - and we finally were cruising at about 70 to 75 MPH up I-95, after our confidence built up. However, as soon as I was home, the first thing that got changed were the wheel rims and the tires. Now at least, I have confidence in riding on new tires, without cracks in the sidewalls. I like confidence in the condition of my rig. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 18:14:15 -0800 Jerry, Just how do you pronounce "#&*@%"? My assumption is just the way it sounds. :-) Steve >Well then measure the #&*@% hole!!! > >Jerry > >LBarkhuff@cs.com wrote: >> >> Don't have one to knock out...it got lost when the last piece of work was >> done to the bottom......Larry .. Thanks for the quick answer... > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 21:58:37 EST In a message dated 02/02/2000 2:05:18 PM US Mountain Standard Time, jmbn@innercite.com writes: << Well then measure the #&*@% hole!!! >> Jerry, Jerry, Jerry..............wadda we gonna do with you?............LOL Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 21:59:50 EST In a message dated 02/02/2000 2:43:22 PM US Mountain Standard Time, LBarkhuff@cs.com writes: << and my ruler is too big to go through the hole to get length....So I put a string through, but the string stretched...I can't win......LB >> Larry Have another slurpee..........and chill out............. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 02 Feb 2000 22:01:20 EST In a message dated 02/02/2000 5:25:31 PM US Mountain Standard Time, LBarkhuff@cs.com writes: << Finally a correct solution.....if I fill the straw with epoxy, voila!!!! LB >> I'd fill the straw with good Bourbon and take a deep dreath...........: ) Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZSKYBUM@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 #233 going up for sale this spring Date: 03 Feb 2000 12:32:43 EST Dear Bill...I am thinking of selling my M-17, I have too many flying toys already, Cub, Cessna 140, Breezy, SGS 1-34R glider, and half a AC-500 Shrike...I was kind of curious. Thanks. Curtis Clark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 03 Feb 2000 16:48:25 EST Thanks Connie. What I wanted to know was how much space to leave on each end to fill with epoxy, therefore, was it of any importance. My arm and hand are too large to go through the hole anyway...Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kdajort@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: M-15 #255 for sale Date: 03 Feb 2000 19:35:08 EST Montgomery 15 #255 for sale! 1983 tan with brown sheer stripe, bottom paint, roller furl jib, good sails, VHF, porti-potti, slugs sewn in boltrope, all nav lights, 5 gal. water storage with electric pump, all lines lead aft, dorade vent, pulpit, 3 hp Evinrude, trailer, stored inside when not used, this boat has been well taken care of. $4500.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wcpritchett@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 #255 for sale Date: 03 Feb 2000 20:40:18 EST kdajort, Where are you located? Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kdajort@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 #255 for sale Date: 03 Feb 2000 21:02:58 EST Bill, I'm in Medford, Oregon, Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wcpritchett@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 #255 for sale Date: 03 Feb 2000 22:41:26 EST Kevin, Wow, I'm in Florida...too far for a boat deal. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 05 Feb 2000 13:32:48 +0000 No, Larry, the hole should be quite a bit oversized. If it doesn't have a good rattle to it at all times, it could seize up and obviously, if that happens, the boat will go down like a rock. Best way to measure the length of the hole is to get a rubber band, cut it so it's one long piece, carefully work it thru the hole until it's flush on the other side, then pull it out and measure it. Or, if you insist on using the string you can allow for the stretch by multiplying the length by the square root of the hypotenuse. Good luck. Jerry LBarkhuff@cs.com wrote: > > Did That too!!!!!! But we are talking about micros here between 1/32 and > 1/64........doesn't the pin have to be very snug to keep from working out of > the hole........I am not an engineer, man, I sell slurpee for a living!!!!! > > and my ruler is too big to go through the hole to get length....So I > put a string through, but the string stretched...I can't win......LB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 05 Feb 2000 17:57:13 EST That sounds sort of like the article in CW several years ago about the fiberglass boring bugs that are like the wood borers which eat a wood boat> Or am I mistaken. Larry I ended up using a blade to cut off the length of a stainless bolt in order to get the piece of SS. But it sure wore our the blade on my Leatherman..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills@bright.net" Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 05 Feb 2000 18:17:47 PST *LOL* Another technique I once heard of for measuring pin length is to get a guitar or piano string, an electronic tuner (unless you have perfect pitch), two c-clamps, and a bottle of correction fluid. You run the wire through the hole, clamp it with the clamps, tune it to "middle C", paint it with some correction fluid where it enters and exits the hole, then take it out and repeat the clamping and tuning part and measure it between the correction fluid marks with a yardstick. The thing to remember is to be sure and clamp it at the same place as it was before, because if the length is off, it will mess it up. Hope this helps. ;-) Feeling silly Tod (had to work today) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kdajort@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 #255 for sale! Date: 06 Feb 2000 12:51:54 EST 1983 M-15 #255, roller furl, good sails, 2 reef points, VHF, porta-potti, deep cycle marine battery with 120 volt charging system, all nav lights with cabin lighting, 5gal water tank with aerator, tan with brown sheer stripe, bottom paint, bow pulpit, all lines lead aft, teak toe rails and trim, trailer, motor, spare for trailer, stored inside when not in use. she has been well taken care of. $4500.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 06 Feb 2000 14:28:31 +0100 Thanks Connie, Russ and Richard for replying to my query about blocking up the trailer. I have been 'covering' the tires with plywood boards to keep off the sun. Also concerning storage, does anyone use water repellant canvas or sunbrella to cover their boats stored outdoors? I'm using blue poly which deteriorates and makes a mess after a few months. Where's a good source for canvas covers? We were up the coast this past week and saw an M15 #153,made in 5/81, named 'Draco II', at a Yacht club outdoor storage area in Dana Point, Ca. Nice condition, off white with light blue sheer stripe, covered with some canvas. Who's boat is this? Thanks, Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: CB Cleat Date: 06 Feb 2000 14:34:20 +0100 Hi all, Small question: I'm thinking of replacing clam cleat used for CB retention, with a Cam cleat, just because I don't like stuffing rope into the clam. Any drawbacks to doing this that I'm overlooking? Thanks, Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Russ Browne" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 06 Feb 2000 17:42:30 EST Fran, I tried a black poly tarp years ago. West Marine claimed it was "stabalized" against the sun and had some type of fabric tape embedded in the poly. Lasted a year. Since then, I have had Windsond shrinkwrapped almost every year. A good sunbrella cover would be a lot cheaper. I know a powerboat skipper who had one made for his 24' SeaRay and it ran about $400, as I recall, including one or two posts to keep the cover from sagging. Russ Browne "Windsong" ComPac 19 Lake St Clair Clinton Township, MI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: covers Date: 06 Feb 2000 15:20:11 +0100 Russ, Thanks for your comment on your poly cover experience. Seems like various products make claims of longevity that undoubtedly vary according to geographic location and wind exposure. I think I might just buy some Sunbrella and sew up my own cover with some grommets for bungeeing down to trailer frame, unless others contribute better ideas. Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jslubliner@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers Date: 06 Feb 2000 19:41:23 EST Sunbrella covers are great and a custom cover is not terribly expensive if you are able to sew/manufacture one yourself. For years I've been using the aforementioned blue tarps. The ones I use are 10 x 12 and come from Ace. About twice a year, they go on sale for $3 and I stock up. They bungee down just fine and when one gets sun rotted, I just toss it. In Arizona, anything takes a beating from the sun, so any cover is a great. Coyote 17FD - #69 John & Anne in Tucson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Russ Browne" Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers Date: 06 Feb 2000 20:23:07 EST Fran, just remembered the Sailor's Tailor. They advertise in most of the sailing magazines (Sailing for sure) , and specialize in covers for small sailboats. Don't know about their prices, but they could save you some work if they have the pattern for a 15. Good luck. Russ Browne "Windsong" ComPac 19 Lake St Clair Clinton Township, MI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lewis Baumstark Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 06 Feb 2000 20:35:02 -0500 Fran, I am located in East Tn. and have used poly tarps to cover my Potter 15 and the UV ate them up. I'm an old farm boy and remembered the canvas tarps we used to cover the farm equipment. I kept looking until I found a store called Tractor Supply that handled them. I bought a 10 oz cotton canvas 15'X20' (I think) for about $100. I've used it for several years and it's still good. A couple of years ago we had a 12" snow and the weight of the snow caused some small holes at stress points but I sewed them up with my sail needle and twine. I would highly reccommed these tarps. The one drawback is the weight. If I were doing it today, I would try to find 8oz canvas and get a smaller size. Lewis Baumstark WWP15 Bristol, Tn. At 02:28 PM 2/6/00 +0100, you wrote: >Thanks Connie, Russ and Richard for replying to my query about blocking >up the trailer. I have been 'covering' the tires with plywood boards to >keep off the sun. > Also concerning storage, does anyone use water repellant canvas or >sunbrella to cover their boats stored outdoors? I'm using blue poly >which deteriorates and makes a mess after a few months. Where's a good >source for canvas covers? > We were up the coast this past week and saw an M15 #153,made in 5/81, >named 'Draco II', at a Yacht club outdoor storage area in Dana Point, >Ca. Nice condition, off white with light blue sheer stripe, covered with >some canvas. Who's boat is this? >Thanks, >Fran >M15#236 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Haas Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers Date: 06 Feb 2000 18:20:04 -0800 Fran; I used the blue-poly tarps for a couple of years on my M-15. They worked ok (we don't have much problem with UV during the winter in Oregon) Last year I switched to a heavy duty poly that is silver in color. The silver fabric has a much tighter weave and is about half again as heavy as the blue ones. One drawback, they are more expensive, $25 or so for a 16x20. There was minimal deteriation in the first year and it seems none the worse for wear so far this year. They are usually stocked at the larger hardware stores. Don M15-248 Francene Lebowitz wrote: > Russ, > Thanks for your comment on your poly cover experience. Seems like > various products make claims of longevity that undoubtedly vary > according to geographic location and wind exposure. I think I might just > buy some Sunbrella and sew up my own cover with some grommets > for bungeeing down to trailer frame, unless others contribute better > ideas. > Fran > M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Haas Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 #255 for sale! Date: 06 Feb 2000 18:23:42 -0800 It sounds like out boats are almost twins, tan/brown, roller furling and all. Good luck on selling her. Don M15-248 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kdajort@aol.com wrote: > 1983 M-15 #255, roller furl, good sails, 2 reef points, VHF, porta-potti, > deep cycle marine battery with 120 volt charging system, all nav lights with > cabin lighting, 5gal water tank with aerator, tan with brown sheer stripe, > bottom paint, bow pulpit, all lines lead aft, teak toe rails and trim, > trailer, motor, spare for trailer, stored inside when not in use. she has > been well taken care of. $4500.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZSKYBUM@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: covers Date: 06 Feb 2000 23:11:20 EST My M-17 came with a really nice tanish custom cover that the previous owner said came new with the boat. It weighs a ton but it is dark inside so it must block most of the UV rays. Are these still avalible from NorSea? I am scared to ask how much. Curtis Clark Scottsdale, Az ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 06 Feb 2000 21:47:25 +0000 Com'on, Tod. It can't be that simple. There has to be a multiplier in there somewhere for the size and length of the string. What do you take us for? htmills@bright.net wrote: > > *LOL* Another technique I once heard of for measuring > pin length is to get a guitar or piano string, an electronic > tuner (unless you have perfect pitch), two c-clamps, and a > bottle of correction fluid. You run the wire through the hole, > clamp it with the clamps, tune it to "middle C", paint it with > some correction fluid where it enters and exits the hole, then take > it out and repeat the clamping and tuning part and measure it between > the correction fluid marks with a yardstick. The thing to remember is > to be sure and clamp it at the same place as it was before, because > if the length is off, it will mess it up. > > Hope this helps. ;-) > > Feeling silly Tod (had to work today) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers Date: 06 Feb 2000 21:33:48 -0800 I used blue poly-tarp from WM ~$28 and would last 2 summers in California sun. I hung small bags of sand, about 6/side on a 23 as this is kinder to the tarp than bungees. Pad spreader tips, sheet winches with trailer bunk carpet. Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mikit Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 07 Feb 2000 00:01:48 -0700 > Also concerning storage, does anyone use water repellant canvas or >sunbrella to cover their boats stored outdoors? I'm using blue poly >which deteriorates and makes a mess after a few months. Where's a good >source for canvas covers? >Fran >M15#236 Fran, Our 1983 M17 has a cover made from Sunbrella or similar material. The previous and original owner had it made at Steve's Canvas Shop located at 383 North Cypress, Orange Ca. 714 538-4419. I checked Yahoo yellow pages and Steve's Canvas is listed so it looks like he is still in business. At least he's in you area and may be worth checking out. When we first looked at our boat I thought the hull was bright white. That is until I lifted the cover and seen the original color was really an off white. The hull was actually tri colored. Off white on top, bright white to waterline, and scummy yellow brown below the water line. Fortunately the lower hull polished out and now matches the upper hull. This tan line situation tells me four things. The previous owner probably stored the boat outdoors with protection provided only by the cover. The boat had been covered a long time, maybe since it was new in 1983. Because of the excellent condition of the upper hull gel coat, the cover really did its job. And 4th, somewhere in So Calif. there is some mighty dirty water. The cover was influential in our decision to buy this particular boat; the guy really created a masterpiece. It covers the entire boat with the mast cradled. It begins at the base of the mast where it extends ahead of the pulpit; it surrounds the pulpit and bow, continues two feet down from the toe rail on either side and eventually zips up mid point on the stern. It is reinforced with additional material at all wear points like the winches, the entire length of the mast and where the life line stanchions touch the underside. It was made to withstand highway travel so it has four webbing straps that go under the hull snapping to the opposite side and a rope sewn in the perimeter that can be drawn up and secured at the stern. The cover is still in excellent condition, however I am sure it could use a waterproofing treatment. I'll have to look into it. Mike M17 #369 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills@bright.net" Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 07 Feb 2000 18:15:55 PST Whoops!......thanks for reminding me, Jerry....I forgot the atmospheric index which takes into account the changes that may take place between the first and second measurements. I'm not real sure I completely understand it, but I think that if the temp/humidity change then they wil= l throw off the readings. Then too there is a factor for corrosion of the guitar string in the interval too....that will modify the tone too. Tod "got my 10 hours in today" Mills ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WHartman@insituform.COM Subject: M_Boats: Stay length Date: 07 Feb 2000 15:13:29 -0600 Jerry; Can you tell me the lengths of the head and back stays on an M23. Thank you Wes whartman@insituform.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Hyde" Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers Date: 07 Feb 2000 15:18:41 -0800 It's worth a visit to the web site for Tyvek to see what they say about their car covers. They claim it stays cooler under them, if that's an issue for covering your boat in the off-season. The web address is: http://www.dupont.com/tyvek/covers/carcovr2.htm --Gary M15 #235 "Vanilla" N24 #133 "Sailebration" Pullman, WA gmhyde@wsu.edu ---------- >From: Francene Lebowitz >To: "montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com" >Subject: M_Boats: covers >Date: Sun, Feb 6, 2000, 6:20 AM > > Russ, > Thanks for your comment on your poly cover experience. Seems like > various products make claims of longevity that undoubtedly vary > according to geographic location and wind exposure. I think I might just > buy some Sunbrella and sew up my own cover with some grommets > for bungeeing down to trailer frame, unless others contribute better > ideas. > Fran > M15#236 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 07 Feb 2000 19:32:57 EST I've been wondering why so many of you are having fun with this pin length issue. I forgot that it's winter elsewhere. Today it was 79 in Phx. My MTN bike ride home from work was very pleasant. Headed for the lake Friday after work. "RUBITIN" repeat as necessary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 07 Feb 2000 19:43:41 EST Sandy, if it is 79 now, will it be 140 in July?????Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wcpritchett@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 07 Feb 2000 22:01:01 EST Fran, Sunbrella is probably the best bet but costs big $$$ compared to everything else. It breaths and repels water...dark colors fade and light colors get dirty. Sewing with a regular home machine is very tough to do (almost impossible). One way to get around the sewing is to cut out all the pieces, then tack together with double back tape and take to a commercial place for final stitching. The tape will also help seal the stitching. Zig-Zag isn't necessary but is stronger...most common is double straight stitch (triple is better) . Also, dacron thread (V92 or the heavier V138) is used for thread...do not use nylon thread because the sun eats it fast. Also, the best dacron thread (Hemingway & Bartlett) has a cotton center that swells up and stops leaks where the needle punched through. Use spur grommets (nickel plated are best) for the edges. If you want to make it bullet proof have a rope sewn in the edge (bolt rope)...although not really necessary if you triple the edges and use spur grommets. On webbing, nylon is better than polyester. Bill Pritchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 07 Feb 2000 19:34:49 -0800 I think we ought to put a guitar pickup on it, connect the pickup to an o'scope, look for all the nodes, paint them and all their harmonics. Or then, maybe just have a beer and think about it. We can use the scaler for measuring beer intake. :-) >Com'on, Tod. It can't be that simple. There has to be a multiplier in >there somewhere for the size and length of the string. What do you take >us for? > >htmills@bright.net wrote: >> >> *LOL* Another technique I once heard of for measuring >> pin length is to get a guitar or piano string, an electronic >> tuner (unless you have perfect pitch), two c-clamps, and a >> bottle of correction fluid. You run the wire through the hole, >> clamp it with the clamps, tune it to "middle C", paint it with >> some correction fluid where it enters and exits the hole, then take >> it out and repeat the clamping and tuning part and measure it between >> the correction fluid marks with a yardstick. The thing to remember is >> to be sure and clamp it at the same place as it was before, because >> if the length is off, it will mess it up. >> >> Hope this helps. ;-) >> >> Feeling silly Tod (had to work today) > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills@bright.net" Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 07 Feb 2000 23:18:42 PST Hmmm....I can see that between picking the guitar string (maybe even eeking out a tune) and a beer while sitting under the boat could make for a forgotten keel pin. Poor Larry'll never figure out his missing pin. ;-) Tod ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kdajort@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 #255 for sale! Date: 07 Feb 2000 23:56:38 EST Hi Don M15 #248! I hope to find her a good home. Thanks, Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 07 Feb 2000 21:03:55 -0800 Only one beer? I thought Jerry had set some examples that we needed to live up to. Wasn't there a story about how to find a leak in the CB casing that used brew as the catalyst? >Hmmm....I can see that between picking the guitar >string (maybe even eeking out a tune) and a beer >while sitting under the boat could make for a forgotten >keel pin. Poor Larry'll never figure out his missing >pin. > >;-) > >Tod > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 #255 for sale! Date: 07 Feb 2000 21:06:34 -0800 Kevin, Do you know if Stan Cruse still has his boat? If I recall, he lived in the area just west of the old (South) high school. Steve >Hi Don M15 #248! I hope to find her a good home. Thanks, Kevin > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 07 Feb 2000 22:06:10 +0100 Wcpritchett@aol.com wrote: > > Fran, > Sunbrella is probably the best bet . It breaths and repels water...dark colors fade and light colors get > dirty. Sewing with a regular home machine is very tough to do (almost > impossible). Whoa, Bill sounds like you know quite a bit about sewing this stuff. Actually, I've worked with Sunbrella before, making sail covers, so I know I can sew on my machine with it, using a heavy needle, #18, I think. But thanks for all the other tips. There's a good store nearby that knows there stuff and did sell me a big spool of 4 oz.Star Ultra Dee Bonded Polyester thread for the sail covers. Now I need to figure how many yards to get! But it will last for many years, so... Fran Glad it's only a 15'er! M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers Date: 07 Feb 2000 22:12:47 +0100 Gary M. Hyde wrote: > > It's worth a visit to the web site for Tyvek to see what they say about their > car covers. Gary, Have you tried this material? It sounds interesting. I wonder how long it lasts? Thanks for the suggestion- I'll investigate further. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Hyde" Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers Date: 08 Feb 2000 10:41:49 -0800 Fran: We have a Tyvek car cover and it is very easy to handle--soft, light, compact, and effective. I made a temporary boat cover from house construction Tyvek, but it is not so soft and rattles a lot when you move it or in the wind. (But it costs only $1 per foot in 9-foot widths.) West Marine sells boat covers made from the soft Tyvek too. They are a bit expensive, but the material should last a good long time, and, as I said, to is light and compact to store. --Gary M15 #235 "Vanilla" N24 #133 "Sailebration" Pullman, WA gmhyde@wsu.edu ---------- >From: Francene Lebowitz >To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: covers >Date: Mon, Feb 7, 2000, 1:12 PM > > Gary M. Hyde wrote: >> >> It's worth a visit to the web site for Tyvek to see what they say about their >> car covers. > > Gary, > Have you tried this material? It sounds interesting. I wonder how long > it lasts? Thanks for the suggestion- I'll investigate further. > Fran > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Hyde" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 08 Feb 2000 10:45:04 -0800 Fran or anyone: Tell me about "Sunbrella" material, please. Where can it be bought? Thanks. --Gary M15 #235 "Vanilla" N24 #133 "Sailebration" Pullman, WA gmhyde@wsu.edu ---------- >From: Francene Lebowitz >To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage >Date: Mon, Feb 7, 2000, 1:06 PM > > Wcpritchett@aol.com wrote: >> >> Fran, >> Sunbrella is probably the best bet . It breaths and repels water...dark > colors fade and light colors get >> dirty. Sewing with a regular home machine is very tough to do (almost >> impossible). > > Whoa, Bill sounds like you know quite a bit about sewing this stuff. > Actually, I've worked with Sunbrella before, making sail covers, so I > know I can sew on my machine with it, using a heavy needle, #18, I > think. But thanks for all the other tips. There's a good store nearby > that knows there stuff and did sell me a big spool of 4 oz.Star Ultra > Dee Bonded Polyester thread for the sail covers. Now I need to figure > how many yards to get! But it will last for many years, so... > Fran > Glad it's only a 15'er! > M15#236 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 08 Feb 2000 21:09:01 -0500 Jerry, Minor question: What is the modulus of elasticity in the rubber band you are using to measure the centerboard pin hole length? My approach would be to spiral cut a beer can to make a long strip - first having drunk the beer in the can, of course, and then slowly feeding the flat strip through the hole - while drinking another beer: strips feed very slowly, you know; and then I'd have the correct measurement - I hope. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 08 Feb 2000 21:22:35 -0500 Fran, I am using an impregnated canvas cover for the M15, which has worked very well. Costs more than the blue poly tarp, but lasts a lot longer. I had to buy two tarps to cover the M15 - the store didn't have one the right size to do the job, but this turns out to be an advantage. Now I can just open the aft end and get access to the cockpit and companionway hatch boards, without removing the whole forward end too. The mast is used as my ridge pole. Forward support is the support where the winch is located; and aft support is a home made unit that fits into the rudder gudgeon pins on the stern. At the mast step I have another support so that the mast doesn't bend under snow loads - which we have at the moment. To keep the canvas taught, I hang 1 gallon jugs (water / milk) filled half full with water from the grommets on the bottom edge of the tarp. This keeps the snow from making pockets, and allows the snow to slide off the tarp. My only problem has been a squirrel that decided to make a nest on deck and gnawed a hole in my tarp to gain access. He/she did a good job on the tarp, and I had to get that spot repaired this fall. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo & Nancy Subject: M_Boats: M23 Surgery Date: 08 Feb 2000 22:45:54 -0600 Well Gentlemen and Ladies, surgery has begun on my M23. Our worst fears were confirmed yesterday upon removal of a 8"x24" piece of fiberglass from the port side keel. Water from either the bilge or the keel itself has permeated the ballast. This ballast is lead, two forms: ingots and shot. The ingots are fine and will be saved, cleaned and reused. The shot is corroded with a blue-ish crust. I took pics and will have them developed soon, I will email to interested parties and/or put them in an upcoming issue of the MON. In addition, due to the freezing climate I choose to live in, the water in the keel obviously froze and expanded. we pulled 5 football sized chunks out. This was quite fortunate as it could have done mucho damage. The shot has to be pneumatically removed as it's encased in resin (read lots of labor, big bucks) They will save the shot to weigh and replace with a like weight of new lead. The whole process will take a few months, remove cancer, dry out keel cavity, reglass, fill with lead and 3M 5200FC, close and glass, interprotect, bottom paint, well, you get the picture. Now, for all you out there that are saying, "Theo man, that surveyor really sucked!" WRONG!!! Without telling you guys what I paid for it, I had to consider the cost of a haul out and hull C&V and what that would add to my investment. I chose not to spend $500 on that inspection based on the value of the boat. Bottom line, I own a fricking cool boat, of which only 18 were made, I feel I got a good deal, and I'd do it again. I just hope my pain causes less for others if their boat would reach this same situation. Comments, as always are appreciated. Oh, 5/2/2000 there will be a big christening party at my marina with lots of real Jamaican rum! Everyone is invited!!! theo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo & Nancy Subject: M_Boats: Ballast Date: 08 Feb 2000 22:48:08 -0600 Jerry, Any recollection on the total added weight in the keel (ingots and shot)? Thanks! Theo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella Date: 08 Feb 2000 22:01:40 +0100 Gary M. Hyde wrote: > > Fran or anyone: > Tell me about "Sunbrella" material, please. Where can it be bought? > Thanks. > --Gary > M15 #235 "Vanilla" Gary, Sunbrella is the fabric used for sail covers, winch covers, tiller covers, etc. which you usually see in blue but it's available in several other shades.It's very durable, UV resistant, water repellant. Try fabric stores, BOATUS, perhaps WM. It's about $16/yard or more, 46" wide. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella Date: 08 Feb 2000 23:41:21 -0800 Francene Lebowitz wrote: > > Gary M. Hyde wrote: > > > > Fran or anyone: > > Tell me about "Sunbrella" material, please. Where can it be bought? > > Thanks. > > --Gary > > M15 #235 "Vanilla" > > Gary, > Sunbrella is the fabric used for sail covers, winch covers, tiller > covers, etc. which you usually see in blue but it's available in several > other shades.It's very durable, UV resistant, water repellant. Try > fabric stores, BOATUS, perhaps WM. It's about $16/yard or more, 46" > wide. > Fran Try Sailrite kits www.sailrite.com for Sunbrella, Dacron thread and all supplies. I made all Sadhana's covers and my Nonsuch 26 22' long sail cover with their supplies. Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 09 Feb 2000 13:18:14 EST More saga of Larry centerboard pin..... 1. Unscrew mostly frozen ss bolt and nut, pound out bolt through hole in keel 2. Lengthy discussion about correct size for pin....harassment and ridicule from "others" 3. Look in Yellow pages for centerboard pins....no such animal 4. Nothing in internet either 5. Look in YP for SS 6. Look at volvo locking pin for outboard....this has promise 7. Call business which sell ss stock...only in 20 foot lengths..what do I do with 19 ft 6.357 inches left over....measurement comes from rubber band idea 8. Tool Time Tim says he can use left over SS on Tool time Show 9. Go to precision machine shop....drive 60 miles...man nicely cuts piece to specs 10. Go home, pound the living shit out this thing into hole in keel. 11. Factor of temp and humidity with rubber band makes it .357 inches too long (catch irony of length) 12. Pound out pin, drive 60 miles, cut it off, take it home, pound it in again, mix Marine Tex, cover little space at the end to keep out water. 13. Leave for Florida next Wednesday.... fun was had by all....pin cost priceless amount to trouble, man at machine wouldn't take money...he said anyone this upset deserves something free......... End of Saga./.......Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 Surgery Date: 09 Feb 2000 13:22:53 EST theo, there will still be ice on the water in May of 2000...... Good luck on the surgery.....glad you are keeping us posted...larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella Date: 09 Feb 2000 13:24:53 EST The Sailrite web site, or the Sailrite office will do a good thing price wise for Sunbrella if you give them a call...Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 Surgery Date: 09 Feb 2000 19:27:11 EST In a message dated 02/08/2000 9:50:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time, theonac@uswest.net writes: << Bottom line, I own a fricking cool boat, of which only 18 were made, I feel I got a good deal, and I'd do it again. >> Theo Me too...........The M-23 has a great deal of character......and sails really well I'm sorry you're having some difficulties...........but remember, lead doesn't rust or corrode......so if you had a little water in the shoal keel, maybe drill a few drain holes, dry it out, and plug 'em up............ Sail on.........: ) Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella Date: 09 Feb 2000 20:38:23 -0500 Gary, Call SAILRITE, phone (219) 244-6715, or email: sailrite@sailrite.com. They are a "do-it-yourself" sail maker, and can supply you with any sunbrella material you need, or, kits for boom covers, etc. Give them a call and get their catalog. It should solve your problem as to a source of sunbrella materials. On page 35 & 36 of my catalog, they list about 39 colors of fabrics for covers. Prices for 46" material are $13.50 for 21 to 5 yards; 6 to 10 yards, $ 12.85: 11 to 30 yards, $$12.55: etc. Material is also available in 60" wide material. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Smith" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 #255 for sale! Date: 09 Feb 2000 20:03:27 -0600 Where is your M15 located? How much are you asking? Thanks. Mike ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 10:56 PM > Hi Don M15 #248! I hope to find her a good home. Thanks, Kevin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills@bright.net" Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 09 Feb 2000 21:49:14 PST "2. Lengthy discussion about correct size for pin....harassment and ridicule from "others"" Gee, Larry, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by making light of your dilemma with various Rube Goldberg ways to measure for a new c/b pin. Please accept my apology. Tod ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills@bright.net" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Covers for Outdoor Storage Date: 09 Feb 2000 21:53:40 PST Fran! Fran!......Herein lies the answer to your covering method: Connie wrote: "I am using an impregnated canvas cover for the M15, which has worked ver= y well." All you need to do is wait until his impregnated cover has her baby! I think I'm working too many hours.... Tod ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: M23 Surgery Date: 09 Feb 2000 23:24:42 -0500 Hi Theo... Which M-23 did you buy ?? I knew of several that were for sale, but bein= g in Georgia, there was only one that i could have bought (in Fla), but it sold before I knew that it was available again...missed it twice !!! Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: comic relief Date: 10 Feb 2000 09:56:57 +0100 htmills@bright.net wrote: > > All you need to do is wait until his impregnated cover has her baby! > > I think I'm working too many hours.... Tod, That's a good one! I think your long hours are having a positive effect on your humor...or maybe your just getting punchy. Keep 'em coming Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: comic relief Date: 10 Feb 2000 12:15:16 -0800 Fran, Speaking of comic relief, a quote on page 25 of the March 2000 Reader's Digest caught my eye. 'Satarist Fran Lebowitz: "To put it rather bluntly, I am not the type who wants to go back to the land; I am the type who wants to go back to the hotel."' Is that a reference to our very own M-boats Fran Lebowitz? Do we have a celebrity sailor in our midst? Joe Kidd M-15 #205 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: comic relief Date: 10 Feb 2000 16:23:23 +0100 Joe Kidd wrote: "To put it rather bluntly, I am not the type > who wants to go back to the land; I am the type who wants to go back to the hotel."'- Fran Lebowitz > Is that a reference to our very own M-boats Fran Lebowitz? Do we have a > celebrity sailor in our midst? Ah, Joe, alas, 'tis not me. I do get asked this alot, though. Besides, I live on 2 acres with orange trees, gardens, a few chickens and plenty of room for a boat, so I AM the type who has gone back to the land and loves it. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 10 Feb 2000 22:19:31 +0000 32.625 Conbert H Benneck wrote: > > Jerry, > > Minor question: What is the modulus of elasticity in the rubber band you > are using to measure the centerboard pin hole length? > > My approach would be to spiral cut a beer can to make a long strip - > first having drunk the beer in the can, of course, and then slowly > feeding the flat strip through the hole - while drinking another beer: > strips feed very slowly, you know; and then I'd have the correct > measurement - I hope. > > Connie > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ballast Date: 10 Feb 2000 22:23:33 +0000 Theo Should be 1200 lbs of inside ballast, plus the approx 300 lbs of the cast iron CB. Sorry for the problems you are having. Jerry Theo & Nancy wrote: > > Jerry, > Any recollection on the total added weight in the keel (ingots and > shot)? > Thanks! > Theo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Stay length Date: 10 Feb 2000 22:14:19 +0000 No, I can't remember the lengths, and I doubt very much if I have any record. I do remember that the headstay is 3/16 wire, and the backstay is 5/32. Sorry, Jerry WHartman@insituform.COM wrote: > > Jerry; > Can you tell me the lengths of the head and back stays on an M23. > Thank you > Wes > whartman@insituform.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Hyde" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella Date: 11 Feb 2000 15:50:35 -0800 Thanks, Connie --Gary M15 #235 "Vanilla" N24 #133 "Sailebration" Pullman, WA gmhyde@wsu.edu ---------- >From: Conbert H Benneck >To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella >Date: Wed, Feb 9, 2000, 5:38 PM > > Gary, > Call SAILRITE, phone (219) 244-6715, or email: sailrite@sailrite.com. > > They are a "do-it-yourself" sail maker, and can supply you with any > sunbrella material you need, or, kits for boom covers, etc. > > Give them a call and get their catalog. It should solve your problem as > to a source of sunbrella materials. > On page 35 & 36 of my catalog, they list about 39 colors of fabrics for > covers. Prices for 46" material are > $13.50 for 21 to 5 yards; 6 to 10 yards, $ 12.85: 11 to 30 yards, > $$12.55: etc. Material is also available in 60" wide material. > > Connie > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Hyde" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella Date: 11 Feb 2000 15:58:39 -0800 Thanks, Dick. --Gary M15 #235 "Vanilla" N24 #133 "Sailebration" Pullman, WA gmhyde@wsu.edu ---------- >From: Richard Lane >To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella >Date: Tue, Feb 8, 2000, 11:41 PM > > Francene Lebowitz wrote: >> >> Gary M. Hyde wrote: >> > >> > Fran or anyone: >> > Tell me about "Sunbrella" material, please. Where can it be bought? >> > Thanks. >> > --Gary >> > M15 #235 "Vanilla" >> >> Gary, >> Sunbrella is the fabric used for sail covers, winch covers, tiller >> covers, etc. which you usually see in blue but it's available in several >> other shades.It's very durable, UV resistant, water repellant. Try >> fabric stores, BOATUS, perhaps WM. It's about $16/yard or more, 46" >> wide. >> Fran > Try Sailrite kits www.sailrite.com for Sunbrella, Dacron thread and all > supplies. I made all Sadhana's covers and my Nonsuch 26 22' long sail > cover with their supplies. > Dick > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Hyde" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella Date: 11 Feb 2000 15:59:50 -0800 Thanks, Fran. --Gary M15 #235 "Vanilla" N24 #133 "Sailebration" Pullman, WA gmhyde@wsu.edu ---------- >From: Francene Lebowitz >To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sunbrella >Date: Tue, Feb 8, 2000, 1:01 PM > > Gary M. Hyde wrote: >> >> Fran or anyone: >> Tell me about "Sunbrella" material, please. Where can it be bought? >> Thanks. >> --Gary >> M15 #235 "Vanilla" > > Gary, > Sunbrella is the fabric used for sail covers, winch covers, tiller > covers, etc. which you usually see in blue but it's available in several > other shades.It's very durable, UV resistant, water repellant. Try > fabric stores, BOATUS, perhaps WM. It's about $16/yard or more, 46" > wide. > Fran > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: boat name removal Date: 12 Feb 2000 11:46:22 -0500 What is the best way to remove a name painted on the transom without leaving traces? Doug "Seas the Day" M15 #310 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: boat name removal Date: 12 Feb 2000 10:36:32 +0100 Doug Kelch wrote: > > What is the best way to remove a name painted on the transom without > leaving traces? > > Doug > "Seas the Day" > M15 #310 Doug, I've used laquer thinner to remove the paint, then rubbing compound and/or wet/dry 600 sandpaper if still visible. Then polishing compound and finally boat polish. Good luck, Fran Shorebird M15 #236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets Date: 12 Feb 2000 15:34:15 -0500 Fran, Go to your freindly carpet workshop and look over their samples for one whose color and texture would fit in the boat. They are just about the perfect size to fit into the M15 cabin. A bit of cutting to clear the centerboard trunk, and now you can enjoy the feel of a high quality carpet under your bare feet, and not sand, on the cold fiberglass. Here in Glastonbury, my carpet shop charges $1.00 each. At that price you can take two and then choose the color that fits best with the boat decor. Before cutting, I made a paper pattern and then transferred the outlines of the pattern to the back side of the carpet. Cut it with a utility knife. It makes for a very agreeable feeling underfoot. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hazel Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: boat name removal Date: 12 Feb 2000 17:42:22 -0800 Easy Off Dick Doug Kelch wrote: > > What is the best way to remove a name painted on the transom without > leaving traces? > > Doug > "Seas the Day" > M15 #310 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: boat name removal Date: 12 Feb 2000 23:11:59 EST We have a friend in Florida that deals with boats and he also says Easy Off will do it. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: boat name removal Date: 13 Feb 2000 15:23:36 EST To remove painted names from Gelcoat, use spray on oven cleaner. A friend had a boat name company for years and used this method. Hint: Be sure to try a small amount first. It has always worked. Some followup with colors restorer (due to different fading) might be necessary. Sandy PS: My Aquarious 23 is for sale in Az. Too much to list. Write for details. A good Mexico or Catalina boat. Been to Avalon 7 times, single-handed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets Date: 13 Feb 2000 21:16:33 +0100 Conbert H Benneck wrote: > > Fran, > Go to your freindly carpet workshop and look over their samples for one > whose color and texture would fit in the boat. They are just about the > perfect size to fit into the M15 cabin. Hi Connie, Thanks for the idea. Sounds cozy. Fran M15 #236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets Date: 14 Feb 2000 17:58:51 -0800 Fran, We cut a piece of teak and holly veneer to fit our floor, and it looks great, but I bet the carpet feels a lot better! Steve >Conbert H Benneck wrote: >> >> Fran, >> Go to your freindly carpet workshop and look over their samples for one >> whose color and texture would fit in the boat. They are just about the >> perfect size to fit into the M15 cabin. > >Hi Connie, > Thanks for the idea. Sounds cozy. >Fran >M15 #236 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 14 Feb 2000 21:15:11 +0100 Steve Parsons wrote: > > Fran, > > We cut a piece of teak and holly veneer to fit our floor, and it looks > great, but I bet the carpet feels a lot better! Steve, I like the wood treatment-where do you get teak plywood? BTW, I can't recall sending a post to the list about carpets; I know I recently asked about boat covers, but Connie's note to me about carpets surprised me. Am I loosing it or what? Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 14 Feb 2000 21:33:47 -0800 The piece came with the boat, and may have been homemade, but I think I have seen adds in Wooden Boat for the real stuff. BTW, regarding losing it: At my age and weight, nothing surprises me about memory. :-) Steve >Steve Parsons wrote: >> >> Fran, >> >> We cut a piece of teak and holly veneer to fit our floor, and it looks >> great, but I bet the carpet feels a lot better! > >Steve, > I like the wood treatment-where do you get teak plywood? BTW, I >can't recall sending a post to the list about carpets; I know I recently >asked about boat covers, but Connie's note to me about carpets surprised >me. Am I loosing it or what? >Fran >M15#236 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "htmills@bright.net" Subject: M_Boats: was I dreaming? Date: 15 Feb 2000 21:23:09 PST Was I dreaming or was there going to be an update to the Nor'sea page showing the teak & holy sole for the 17? Another thing I would guess would be touted would be the 15's placing in the SCA cruiser challenge.... Tod ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 16 Feb 2000 20:13:30 -0500 Fran, You're not loosing it. This was just something I did this past summer, and wanted to share it with you all, since it works so well. The carpet samples are just the proper size for an M15 main cabin carpet. I looked for a good Persian carpet, but could only find synthetics! Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 17 Feb 2000 08:48:26 +0100 Conbert H Benneck wrote: > > Fran, > You're not loosing it. Thanks, Connie. I'll be hitting the big '5-0' next month and was beginning to wonder... I will definitely check out those carpets, though. I'll let you know if I find any real Persian ones. Fran M15#236 Shorebird ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 17 Feb 2000 19:23:58 -0800 Fran, Just 'five o'? If you check behind the ears, I'm sure you'll find moisture...:-) BTW, Edensaw is the outfit that carries the T&H plywood. Steve >Conbert H Benneck wrote: >> >> Fran, >> You're not loosing it. > >Thanks, Connie. I'll be hitting the big '5-0' next month and was >beginning to wonder... > >I will definitely check out those carpets, though. I'll let you know >if I find any real Persian ones. >Fran >M15#236 >Shorebird > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WHartman@insituform.COM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newsletter Date: 22 Feb 2000 09:14:08 -0600 Hello Theo; I hope your boat repair is going well. Send me your address so I can get on the Montgomery news letter. Also, my M23 is for sale if you know of anyone looking. Thank you Wes whartman@insituform.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 22 Feb 2000 20:25:50 -0500 Fran, All these modern synthetic carpets work fine in a boat. They can get wet and dry off again - no problem. On our "big" boat, we had a carpet in the main cabin and it was a joy when you got up in the morning and your feet hit a nice warm surface and not the cold teak/holly floorboards. Since the usual carpet shop's supply is almost endless, and the samples change every few months, for a few bucks you can have a Spring, Summer, and Fall carpet to adorn your boat. Try it, you'll like it. It is also a big help if you get on board after having been on the beach and have sandy feet. The carpet absorbs the sand, and the boat stays clean. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 22 Feb 2000 18:54:28 -0800 Gang, The list has been far too quiet over the past couple of days. I am thinking about asking your opinion on 4 stoke outboards, trailer tires, bottom paint, tow vehicles and lastly dimensions for keel pins. :-) Steve Keith, I got to your neigborhood last Wednesday, but didn't have time to get outside the building and visit. You sure do have a view there!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 22 Feb 2000 20:15:59 -0800 Steve, The quietness here has been due to a different wintertime agenda for most of us. I've been occupied with buying and driving our new (to us) motorhome back to Mariposa from New Orleans. The sailboat is docked in our garage awaiting better weather. FWIW opinions: 1. 4-cycle engines are heavier, quieter, more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly. 2-cycle engines give you more bang for the buck. I bought a 2-hp Honda last summer because 2-cycle outboards are being outlawed on many California lakes. 2. Passenger car radial tires run cooler, have more load-carrying capacity, cushion the boat more gently and are less expensive than good bias ply trailer tires. I gave away the brand new bias-ply tires on my TrailRite trailer and replaced them with Sears radials. The peace of mind was worth twice the price. I think the trailer tracks much better. 3. Bottom paint is not necessary if the boat is moored on the trailer. Before buying my M-15, I kept my other boat in a slip on SF Bay. I used Interlux Micron CSC ablative paint. It works well while the boat is in the water and does not dry out while the boat is stored indefinitely on the trailer. Ablative paint is self-cleaning and you can add new paint whenever needed without removing the old paint. 4. I tow my M-15 with a 1988 Isuzu Trooper 4-cylinder 4x4 w/manual transmission. It does just fine, even in the mountains. I also towed the other boat (total weight of boat & trailer was over 2,000 pounds) with the Trooper, but, in retrospect, believe it was unsafe, especially if I had ever needed to make an emergency stop. First gear, low range in a 4x4 truck or sport utility will pull average trailers and boats up about any steep, wet ramp, paved or unpaved. With defensive driving and careful gear selection, most mid-size cares will pull most boats. A few automatic transmissions are barely adequate for the car alone, however, especially on some front-wheel-drive cars. Again, the brakes are were caution is advised. You don't want the tail to wag the dog. 5. Keel pins: I've had no trouble on my M-15. Perhaps you should refer to the archives and Jerry's rubber band measuring technique. I check my keel pin regularly to make sure it is not working loose. (If the sealant covering the hole is still in place, it seems safe to assume that the pin is still hiding inside somewhere and all is AOK.) Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 22 Feb 2000 20:45:04 -0700 Steve Parsons wrote: > Gang, > > The list has been far too quiet over the past couple of days." > > I am thinking about asking your opinion on 4 stoke outboards, trailer tires, > bottom paint, tow vehicles and lastly dimensions for keel pins. Hi Steve, It's been quiet for weeks, really. Winter weather, perhaps. "I am thinking about asking your opinion on 4 stoke outboards, trailer tires, bottom paint, tow vehicles and lastly dimensions for keel pins." Go for it! Actually, how many 15 or 17 sailors single-hand? If not, how many do you usually sail with? Another Question: How well does leading the main halyard aft work if you don't have sail slugs, just the bolt rope in the main? Fran M15 #236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slyingst@sonic.net (Stephen & Christina) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newsletter Date: 22 Feb 2000 20:49:56 -0800 Wes...where is your M23 located, etc? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 22 Feb 2000 20:53:56 -0700 Conbert H Benneck wrote: > Fran, > All these modern synthetic carpets work fine in a boat. They can get wet > and dry off again - no problem. > Hi Connie, I found a couple of samples today at Home Depot for only a buck each. They are 18"x 24". I got two for the cockpit floor. I don't think I'll need to do any cutting, but I'll have about 6" of bare floor at either end. HD has big rolls of outdoor carpet, but I'd probably have to velcro it down;it's thinner than the samples. I like your idea to change carpet with the seasons; cuts down on the need to vacuum as well. Thanks Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 22 Feb 2000 21:18:48 -0800 Fran, I single-hand most of the time. When I need crew, I prefer having just the admirable along. More than two adults and the M-15 cockpit tends to get crowded. Handling the main halyard is easier and safer from the cockpit, especially when the wind pipes up. Also, it helps when singlehanding to have the tiller, outboard and all the various ropes, strings, reefs and gismos reachable from one location. The halyard cleats are located on the aft cabin top and can be reached from the cockpit or while standing in the hatchway. Although I added sail slugs to my mainsail, the rope bolt can also be fed into the mast groove while standing in the hatchway. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 23 Feb 2000 00:19:44 EST Fran; You mentioned your B'day next month. Are you Pisces like me? Mine is the 8th of MARCH and I'll be 52. Sandy PS; The aquarious is named Pisces too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 22 Feb 2000 21:53:41 -0800 Fran, I single hand my M15 at times, but prefer to sail with my bride. Three adults is about at the edge of comfort for me. Feeding the bolt rope does take a little more caution than slugs when raising the main, but it can be done without too much trouble. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 22 Feb 2000 22:06:27 -0700 Sandyal55@aol.com wrote: > Fran; You mentioned your B'day next month. Are you Pisces like me? Mine is > the 8th of MARCH and I'll be 52. Sandy PS; The aquarious is named Pisces > too. Sandy, No, I think I'm an Aries, being born on March 21st. I don't believe any of that astrology stuff. March is a great month, though; Spring and all that... Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 22 Feb 2000 22:13:20 -0700 Steve Parsons wrote: > Fran, > > I single hand my M15 at times, but prefer to sail with my bride. Three > adults is about at the edge of comfort for me. Feeding the bolt rope does > take a little more caution than slugs when raising the main, but it can be > done without too much trouble. > Steve, You guys speak so nicely of your wives- the 'admireable'... my 'bride'. My husband tells me I'm a 'good wench'. Speaking of slugs, sail slugs that is, I've had them on other boats and they get stuck, break sometimes, so yes, the M15's boltrope works very well, up and down. Leave well enough alone. Fran M15#236 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 carpets? Date: 22 Feb 2000 22:29:20 -0800 Fran, When people ask me what my sign is, I answer, "Neon." Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Keep Shining, Joe! Date: 23 Feb 2000 15:03:22 -0700 Joe Kidd wrote: > Fran, > > When people ask me what my sign is, I answer, "Neon." > > Good one, Joe! But then again, you are one of the bright lights on this list. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 19:54:09 -0500 Steve, To add to Joe's comments: Outboards: I've had a 2HP Evinrude, and a 2 HP Seagull for my dinghys, but the 2 HP 4 Cycle Honda beats them all. It just runs, and runs.....! Quietly, and all the time. Tires: I also changed over to car radials for my Trailrite trialer for the M15. So far, (2nd year) experience has been excellent. Bottom paint: Can't comment. I still have what was on the boat when I bought it. With my fresh water use; no problems. Towing: I tow my M15 with a '95 VW VR6 GTI. No problems. Down the Interstates I cruise at about 70 MPH. Have had no problems launching or retrieving the boat on any ramp we've used. Keel pins: keep a wooden clothespin handy if you ever loose the pin. The wooden clothespin should fit the hole and is a replacement part that is readily available. Connie M15 # 400 LEPPO Glastonbury, CT ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 22:56:26 -0500 Hi Fran... I usually sail with the Admirable, or one of my children and a grandkid o= r two. I've not sailed singlehanded yet, altho I've taken Stargazer out alone several times when testing the motor, or motoring to the trailer. I have= her at a slip during sailing season. I tried using the boltrope on the main just to see how it works...went ba= ck to the sail slugs next sail. Easier to hoist the main on a M-17 with the= slugs, IMO. = Haven't had any slugs break on me, but I usually lube the slot with Breakfree, a teflon based lube when I launch the boat in the spring. It dreis nicely, and doesn't get sticky like oil. Regards, Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 20:13:34 -0800 Fran We also ride a tandem bike. The person in front (me) is the Captain, the person in the back is the ............... Rear Admiral. AKA Stoker. Steve > > >Steve Parsons wrote: > >> Fran, >> >> I single hand my M15 at times, but prefer to sail with my bride. Three >> adults is about at the edge of comfort for me. Feeding the bolt rope does >> take a little more caution than slugs when raising the main, but it can be >> done without too much trouble. >> > >Steve, > You guys speak so nicely of your wives- the 'admireable'... my 'bride'. >My husband tells me I'm a 'good wench'. > Speaking of slugs, sail slugs that is, I've had them on other boats and >they get stuck, >break sometimes, so yes, the M15's boltrope works very well, up and down. >Leave well >enough alone. >Fran >M15#236 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: M_Boats: A newbie to pick on Date: 23 Feb 2000 23:29:32 -0500 (EST) Since some have mentioned that the list is a little quiet, I'll take this one-time opportunity to write enough for SEVERAL people. Chapter One - Boy Meets Girl... Just wanted to announce that I am now the proud owner of the Vixen, Montgomery 17 Hull 404. She's outfitted for bluewater with radar reflector, lightning dissipator, triple-reefed main, and stormsail. She's been to Catalina, Channel Islands, Puget Sound, Vancouver Island, Bahamas, and Dry Tortugas. I'm hoping to continue those trips. Please forgive my exuberance. Chapter Two - Boy Gets Girl... Two days to Stuart, FL, 8 hours there, and two days back. Everything seems to be great with the boat, actually appears to be in pristine condition, one owner, and checked out just as Richard Learned, the marine surveyor, said. He really did a fine job (and I'm not getting a discount for the plug.) Trailer was shot, though. I took Bob Walter's advice and got in touch with Hake Yachts in Stuart who ordered the same Performance trailer Bob had asked for (I swear, no discounts). I told them prior to ordering, that Bob's trailer had had to have the bunker supports cut down by the 6 extra inches they had specified, but they ordered them anyway. Duh, now I have to cut the 6" extensions off. Hmmm... Chapter Three - Boy Almost Loses Girl... Pulled out of the boatyard, got about 30 minutes and two miles away, stopped at a bank to transfer boat title, checked the bunkers, and found the port 2x4 bunker broken in half. Back to Hake. They told me this was the first time that had happened to a trailer. (this is all leading up to something.) Fortunately, they had another trailer there under a Seaward Fox that was to be picked up at a later date. They propped up the port side of the Fox, pulled off the bunker, re-drilled one bracket location and stuck it on my trailer. An hour later, I headed to Atlanta, gingerly. Inspected the bunker board at every stop and noticed the grain starting to separate. It never got any worse over the next 24 hours, though, and is serviceable as is. Chapter Four - Boy Tries to Figure Out Relationship With Girl... Now for the conclusions, solutions and advice solicitation. Problem 1 - Although the Fox is similar (but it is 19' LOA) and the beam is within 2" of the M-17, and the weight is very close, The Fox appeared more straight-sided. I suspect the M-17 is beamier down where the bunkers support it (sorry, I don't know the correct design terms), at about lapstrake 5 or 6 from the bottom. The bunker boards are supposed to bend to conform to the hull, but they appear to be bending too much - again, Duh...? My solution has been to buy two pieces of flat bar steel 1 1/2"x1/8"x6'6", which will be primed and painted, and bolted onto the existing "bunker-bracket-bolthole." They should give, but they aren't gonna break under tension. Any comments? Problem 2: Performance Trailers only operates in Florida. I'm hoping nothing goes seriously wrong with the trailer in Virginia, also because... Problem 3 - (Performance employees stop reading NOW) Performance works through dealers. Hake Yachts is an OEM, not a true dealer. Between that and Performance not having an opportunity to design the trailer as they'd like with correct structure and support factors, I hope the warranty is not void. Hake says it's OK, but I don't know... Overall, if configured properly, I think the trailers are excellent. Very strong, 2660 GVWR, heavy galvanization, bearing buddies, and Carlisle 20.5x8.0-10 8-ply tires - 1330 lbs capacity each @ 70psi. Tracked beautifully so far, at least for those first 1000 miles. Total price was $1400, two-year warranty (gulp). Forgot to order a spare, but picking one up this week. Any suggestions on best place to mount it? I would put forth the suggestion that anyone living in the Tampa-St. Pete area with a free afternoon and a compulsive streak of altruism haul their boat to Performance Trailers so they can get Montgomerys in their database. Or perhaps the specs can be given over the phone; I don't know enough yet to do it myself. Chapter Five - Boy Tries to Figure Out Girl... And now, for something completely different: The previous owner didn't have an owner's manual (assuming there is one). I'm wondering if anyone has a manual or knows where I could get one for an '86. Didn't see anything in the archives about it. I would be happy to photocopy or pay the cost of photocopying if someone is willing/able to help me out or trust me with theirs for a couple of days. My brother and I are going to meet in Manteo, NC on the Outer Banks for a shakedown cruise the second week of April. I would like to invite anyone with an M-17 in that area, who would like to help a new owner get familiar with his boat and sail the Sound for half a day or so, to get in touch with me. I would love the opportunity to take advantage of a Montgomery owner's experience. Chapter Six - Boy Loses Readers... I promise I won't be this verbose in the future, but figured I'd be forgiven this one time. Thanks, Doug King M-17 #404 "Vixen" Hey sailor, looking for a good time? Try http://www.darwinawards.com/ : "In the spirit of Charles Darwin, the Darwin Awards commemorate the remains of individuals who contribute to the improvement of our gene pool by removing themselves from it in really stupid ways." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 20:29:54 -0800 That way she's not the one who gets bugs in her teeth -----Original Message----- >Steve, > >I ride a bit myself and have noticed that almost always, the lady >is the stoker. I've never ridden a tandem and always wondered >why that is the case. > >Tod > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZSKYBUM@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: A newbie to pick on Date: 23 Feb 2000 23:42:39 EST Dear Doug..I had the same problem of splitting the bunk boards on my M-17 trailer.. after spending much effort and $$ to remove boat with crane completely rebuild the bunkboards with additional support steel welded in I finally figured the bunkboards arn't supposed to do anything other than keep the boat from tipping over. They really shouldn't have alot of weight on them, the majority of the load is taken by the keel roller, which in my case was in bad bad shape. After replacing the keel roller I sit back and ask how much beer money I could have saved if I had done that first and stayed away from the need "to improve apon" a proven designed trailer. Curtis Clark Scottsdale, Arizona M-17 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: A newbie to pick on Date: 23 Feb 2000 21:10:31 -0700 Hi Doug, What lengths you went to bring the old gal home! Congratulations on your new relationship, I mean, boat .Hope you enjoy many fine sails. Fran M15 #236 Shorebird ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 21:20:59 -0700 "Dennis W. Farrell" wrote: > That way she's not the one who gets bugs in her teeth > Dennis, Very true. And the guy gets to 'lead' this way, keeping his mind on the road ahead, instead of the 'rear' in front of him. We don't have tandem bikes, and my husband likes me in front. What can I say? Fran > > > >Steve, > > > >I ride a bit myself and have noticed that almost always, the lady > >is the stoker. I've never ridden a tandem and always wondered > >why that is the case. > > > >Tod > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 21:26:29 -0700 Harvey Wilson wrote: > > Haven't had any slugs break on me, but I usually lube the slot with > Breakfree, a teflon based lube when I launch the boat in the spring. It > dreis nicely, and doesn't get sticky like oil. > > Hi Harvey, Can you use the teflon lube with just a boltrope, or does it damage dacron? Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 21:47:23 -0800 Tod, I suspect it's a combination of things. Mostly being the testosterone factor and size. The macho part is pretty self explanitory. As for size, I think it would take a forward sloping top tube to accomodate a smaller captain, and from my perspective that makes for an ugly tandem. I have seen folks of equal size share the captain's seat, and then there are bikes like the Counterpoint where it probably doesn't matter. The CP has the captain in back on a diamond frame, with the stoker recumbent in front. Looks something like a person on a bike pushing another poor sole in a wheel barrow. Regardless, if you and your riding partner are of unequal riding abilities, a tandem is a super way to find the common denominator. Regards, Steve >Steve, > >I ride a bit myself and have noticed that almost always, the lady >is the stoker. I've never ridden a tandem and always wondered >why that is the case. > >Tod > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 23 Feb 2000 21:50:28 -0800 Or the yellow jackets down the jersey, but that's another tale. :-( >That way she's not the one who gets bugs in her teeth > >-----Original Message----- >From: htmills@bright.net >To: Montgomery Boats ; Montgomery Boats > >Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 20:14 >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List > > >>Steve, >> >>I ride a bit myself and have noticed that almost always, the lady >>is the stoker. I've never ridden a tandem and always wondered >>why that is the case. >> >>Tod >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roberta & Mark Dvorscak" Subject: Re: M_Boats: A newbie to pick on Date: 23 Feb 2000 22:06:55 -0800 Hey! If Doug King's '86 M17 is hull # 404 and my '83 M17 is hull # 400, what happened during that interval? Mark Dvorscak M17 #400 (awaiting a new name) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 24 Feb 2000 09:59:10 -0600 > noticed that almost always, the lady >is the stoker. I've never ridden a tandem and always wondered >why that is the case. It's mostly because the male is usually heavier. All else being equal, it's easier for the heavier captain to hold up a lighter stoker, and the bike tends to handle better. Most tandems are made with the rear a little lower, which reinforces this. In addition, most tandems tend to cramp the stoker a bit in top tube length, so the smaller person is less constricted. On the other hand, it would make sense to put the stronger rider at the back because the drive train losses would be less. My wife and I tend to ride about 50/50, or at least we did until we put the kiddie crank on for our 7 year old son. As to the Opus Counterpoint... I drove one for a little while with a much heavier stoker and it was fine. My wife rode the front of one for a tour in Greece and wasn't wild about the feeling on the fast descents that she was going to be first at the scene of the accident. She had a broken wrist, though, so it was her only option. Giles Morris Arlington VA Montgomery 15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" Sundry kayaks Too many bikes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WHartman@insituform.COM Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23 for sale Date: 24 Feb 2000 09:06:57 -0600 Stephen & Christina: Did you receive the info i sent you via net on 2/23?. If not let me know and I'll retransmit. I'm located in Durango Co. that so. west. where are you located?. Wes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slyingst@sonic.net (Stephen & Christina) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: M23 for sale Date: 24 Feb 2000 08:42:54 -0800 Wes...yes, thank you very much. Sounds like a great boat. (unfortunately, the photos didn't make it; just the description. We're in Glen Ellen, CA & currently have a M17 moored on Tomales Bay. Thanks again, Stephen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WHartman@insituform.COM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newsletter Date: 24 Feb 2000 12:04:30 -0600 --0__=FtaSbfvmGPktZAlYxTgodie4Bh0LLtUSi3K9rkBAynjZrwaXtGnhMn34 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stephan: I'm going to try the pictues again. Let me know if they don't show up. Come on over to so. colo. and go sailing, I'll be putting the boat back in the water soon. 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May you have lots of very enjoyable sails, with fair winds and always a handsbreadth of water under your keel. Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: RE: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 24 Feb 2000 19:00:48 -0800 Giles, Are we related??? My family was originally from tidewater Virginia... The reason I ask is the way you closed your email. M15, V25, Kayaks, Bikes... If you have a collection of flyrods, I'll know there must me some connection somewhere. :-) What tandem are you Riding? We had Kieth Lippy build us a custom frame about 10 years ago, and have been very happy ever since. We've gained a little weight in the interim years, so now there's a 48 spoke rim on the back, but I guess that is to be expected. Kind Regards, Steve M15-159 Sojornen C22 Day Break Kayaks, Canoes Bikes and Flyrods >> noticed that almost always, the lady >>is the stoker. I've never ridden a tandem and always wondered >>why that is the case. > >It's mostly because the male is usually heavier. All else being equal, it's >easier for the heavier captain to hold up a lighter stoker, and the bike >tends to handle better. Most tandems are made with the rear a little lower, >which reinforces this. In addition, most tandems tend to cramp the stoker a >bit in top tube length, so the smaller person is less constricted. > >On the other hand, it would make sense to put the stronger rider at the back >because the drive train losses would be less. > >My wife and I tend to ride about 50/50, or at least we did until we put the >kiddie crank on for our 7 year old son. > >As to the Opus Counterpoint... I drove one for a little while with a much >heavier stoker and it was fine. My wife rode the front of one for a tour in >Greece and wasn't wild about the feeling on the fast descents that she was >going to be first at the scene of the accident. She had a broken wrist, >though, so it was her only option. > >Giles Morris > >Arlington VA >Montgomery 15 #264 "Umiaq" >Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" >Sundry kayaks >Too many bikes > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 25 Feb 2000 07:53:54 -0500 Hi Fran... >>> Can you use the teflon lube with just a boltrope, or does it damage dacron?<<< I doubt that it would damage dacron. I slop the lube in fairly heavy wit= h a wool rifle bore mop about the size of an AAA battery (30 cal...I'm also= a shooter) and it dries in a short time. The teflon stays on the metal surface...sorta bonds with it for a while. I'd probably do it every 2-3 months if I used the bolt rope, but I like t= he slugs Regards, Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: A newbie to pick on Date: 25 Feb 2000 07:53:54 -0500 Hi Doug... Congrats on your new boat !! I bought Stargazer in Florida as well...Ft.= Myers. I almost thought that you had a M-15 a few years ago...must be another Do= ug that I'm thinking about. Had I known you were coming up this way (I-75 thru Atlanta) I could have given you a sail on Stargazer, she's at Lake Lanier, 8-10 miles off I-85.= Regards, Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mikit Date: 25 Feb 2000 05:10:16 -0700 I thought I would be interesting to put together a profile of the typical Montgomery boat owner as I perceive from the contributions of this group over the past year or so. 1. Independent, self reliant and innovative. 2. Opinionated. 3. Age, five years on either side of fifty. 4. Quality and attention to details important or perhaps an obsession. 5. Currently or at one time have participated in canoeing, kayaking and bicycling. 6. Like Honda engines and hate Briggs and Stratton. 7. A Pro radial group 8. Don't have much luck with trailers. 9. Like airplanes, some of us are pilots and some of us have enjoy jumping out of them. 10. Get enjoyment flailing around a very expensive H. Leonard bamboo fly rod in pursuit of a 6" trout. 11. Have respect and admiration for the attributes and sailing ability of other boats, with the opinion that none of them are as good as ours. 12. Exhibit the courage to sail down a river steering over the bow with an oar or to drive down Pacific Coast Highway in Southern Calif. with the mast stepped. 13. Background in engineering and would consider the modules of elasticity of a steel pin and still cut it to the wrong size or explore the most complex method of storing an anchor rode. 14. Have no problem spending way too much for a 20-year-old boat, tear it completely apart and put it back together the way it should be because the previous owner did not know how to take care of a boat and had no idea how the rig it properly. 15. Dedicated to providing a good retirement for the stockholders of West Marine. 16. Divided between slugs and bold rope but I think slugs are ahead. 17. Vary in sailing ability from extremely competent to extremely scary. 18. Absolute dedication, love and respect for our spouses, although they lack boat-naming ability. 19. A good sense of humor. (I hope) I fall in line with all the above with the exception of number 12. I lack that kind of confidence at this time. Mike M17-369 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mikit Date: 25 Feb 2000 05:22:07 -0700 Woops, typo here, not really a bold rope. 16. Divided between slugs and bolt rope but I think slugs are ahead. Mike M17-369 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cosens, Eric D" Subject: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 25 Feb 2000 09:20:35 -0500 I came across this product called TeakGuard ( http://www.marinestore.com/teakguard.html ) the other day while researching what to do with the teak on my M-15 this spring. Has anyone tried it or had any 3rd party experience with it? If their claims are true, it sounds like something worth trying. Regards, Eric Bloomington, IN M-15, Lucy Maud, #412 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GILASAILR@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: Date: 25 Feb 2000 11:32:21 EST Mike, I submit my answers to your survey/inquiry: 2. As Hell. 6. Have no use for either Honda OB or B&S but tolerate my Evinrude or Seagull. see # 2. 7.I thought you said radical. 8. I love em really do need em. 10. I flail Winstons and T&T's (we forgot namedropping) in pursuit of Lees Ferry Trout and Longboat Jacks (and 6" trout on 3wt.((rubber fish)) ) 16. I will die before I use sail SLUGS. see # 2. 17. I'm SO good I am scary. # 2 again??? 18. I can't make up my mind................................about the boat name, not my wife. PS Is this part of that census 2000 thing I heard about??? Gary. M-17 # 319 'Cheap Suit Serenader' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 25 Feb 2000 11:42:50 -0500 I just received the latest Practical Sailor issue in which they update their ongoing evaluation of several products for teak treatment. I don't have it with me, but will provide a synopsis of their findings in the next day or two, unless someone else would like to beat me to it. Harvey, I stop in Atlanta a few times a year and spend the night or stay a while because that's where my brother lives. He keeps his MacGregor 26 on Lanier. Maybe can let you know next time I come down and take you up on your offer (Sorry you mentioned it now, aren't you? ;). Doug King ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 25 Feb 2000 11:33:35 -0600 >Are we related? Oh, man! I thought it was just me. At least, my wife tells me it isn't "normal". >If you have a collection of flyrods Lemme see... I suspect the woodworking tools would be roughly comparable. >What tandem are you Riding? Oops. This is where it gets embarrassing. The only tandem we own is somewhat humble - a Burley Rock & Roll with drop bars and road gearing. It was meant to be a temporary thing while we found one that we really liked, but somehow it has always seemed good enough, despite having quite a few miles on it. The weight on the back was part of the reason for going with the 26 inch wheels, and I built decent wheels (Phil Wood/Mavic) that are complete overkill for a seven year old, but stood up well when we were riding as a couple. I suppose what we really need now is a triple, but the only time I drove one (belonging to a friend who has been into tandems for long enough that he sold one of his to the guy who later started Santana) it was less than perfect: 30 yards road riding, 30 yards off-road riding and 30 yards upside down. Giles Morris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 25 Feb 2000 17:20:50 -0800 Yes, I used it for ~5yrs on my M23 Sadhana with good results, (no build up, no flaking and twice yearly clean with a Rescue pad and reapply). It looks a little bit orange however. Regards, Dick Cosens, Eric D wrote: > I came across this product called TeakGuard ( > http://www.marinestore.com/teakguard.html ) the other day while researching > what to do with the teak on my M-15 this spring. > > Has anyone tried it or had any 3rd party experience with it? > > If their claims are true, it sounds like something worth trying. > > Regards, > Eric > Bloomington, IN > M-15, Lucy Maud, #412 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: M_Boats: Re: Date: 25 Feb 2000 20:07:45 -0800 Mike, I don't think you have it. Or at least not entirely. I've always been an enthusiast for R.L. Winston rods, and you forgot to mention telemark skiis. Other than that, you're pretty much on the spot. Regards, Steve >I thought I would be interesting to put together a profile of the typical >Montgomery boat owner as I perceive from the contributions of this group >over the past year or so. > >1. Independent, self reliant and innovative. >2. Opinionated. >3. Age, five years on either side of fifty. >4. Quality and attention to details important or perhaps an obsession. >5. Currently or at one time have participated in canoeing, kayaking and >bicycling. >6. Like Honda engines and hate Briggs and Stratton. >7. A Pro radial group >8. Don't have much luck with trailers. >9. Like airplanes, some of us are pilots and some of us have enjoy >jumping out of them. >10. Get enjoyment flailing around a very expensive H. Leonard bamboo fly >rod in pursuit of a 6" trout. >11. Have respect and admiration for the attributes and sailing ability of >other boats, with the opinion that none of them are as good as ours. >12. Exhibit the courage to sail down a river steering over the bow with an >oar or to drive down Pacific Coast Highway in Southern Calif. with the mast >stepped. >13. Background in engineering and would consider the modules of elasticity >of a steel pin and still cut it to the wrong size or explore the most >complex method of storing an anchor rode. >14. Have no problem spending way too much for a 20-year-old boat, tear it >completely apart and put it back together the way it should be because the >previous owner did not know how to take care of a boat and had no idea how >the rig it properly. >15. Dedicated to providing a good retirement for the stockholders of West >Marine. >16. Divided between slugs and bold rope but I think slugs are ahead. >17. Vary in sailing ability from extremely competent to extremely scary. >18. Absolute dedication, love and respect for our spouses, although they >lack boat-naming ability. >19. A good sense of humor. (I hope) > >I fall in line with all the above with the exception of number 12. I lack >that kind of confidence at this time. > >Mike >M17-369 > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: RE: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 25 Feb 2000 20:17:10 -0800 Giles, A few comments mixed in. >>If you have a collection of flyrods > >Lemme see... I suspect the woodworking tools would be roughly comparable. Just got a new Delta 12" portable surface planer, and 12" bench drill. Looking forward to building another boat. Last was an Ian Oughtred sailing canoe. > >>What tandem are you Riding? > >Oops. This is where it gets embarrassing. The only tandem we own is somewhat >humble - a Burley Rock & Roll with drop bars and road gearing. It was meant >to be a temporary thing while we found one that we really liked, but somehow >it has always seemed good enough, despite having quite a few miles on it. >The weight on the back was part of the reason for going with the 26 inch >wheels, and I built decent wheels (Phil Wood/Mavic) that are complete >overkill for a seven year old, but stood up well when we were riding as a >couple. I suppose what we really need now is a triple, but the only time I >drove one (belonging to a friend who has been into tandems for long enough >that he sold one of his to the guy who later started Santana) it was less >than perfect: 30 yards road riding, 30 yards off-road riding and 30 yards >upside down. Hey, nothing wrong with a 'Rock and Roll'. Good Oregon bike, build just down the freeway. There weren't many 26" options available for road when we had our bike built. Which I just remembered was 1987. When we upgraded the read wheel, we also had the rear triangle spread from 130mm to 145mm, and went with a symetric build. Phil and Mavic, plus 8 speed cassette. The real gem was the Campy Chorus ergo shifter/brake levers. No more reaching for the down tube. What are the chances that you're a telemark skier??? Steve > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mikit Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 26 Feb 2000 02:47:42 -0700 >Steve, I was only a third of the way through my profile list when I realized I may have misjudged the sense of humor thing, so I decided to stop before I got to far behind. I would have eventually covered the areas you mentioned. I bet your Oughtred sailing canoe is a beauty. I have sets of plans for Ian Oughtred's Acorn Skiff and Walter Simmons's Lincolnville Wherry that I purchased 15+ years ago. I did a full size loft of the wherry on the floor of a previously owned house but never went any further than that. The floor was carpeted, the house sold and the plans are still in the drawer for a future project. 20. Tendency to get involved in too many projects, varied interests, lack of focus. Mike M17 #369 > >I don't think you have it. Or at least not entirely. I've always been an >enthusiast for R.L. Winston rods, and you forgot to mention telemark skiis. >Other than that, you're pretty much on the spot. > >Regards, > >Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 26 Feb 2000 08:18:50 -0600 >What are the chances that you're a telemark skier??? This is getting weird. I have the torn-up knee to show that I used to be. I discovered Voile plates too late. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: Date: 26 Feb 2000 08:20:25 -0600 >20. Tendency to get involved in too many projects, >varied interests, lack of focus Hm? What? I was distracted for a moment. Um... Yes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 26 Feb 2000 10:14:01 -0800 Mike, Your insight is uncanny. Where as I think a bunch of us may be Jack's of all trades and Master's of none, it sure makes life interesting to have all of those varied interests. On the boat front, I am trying to make up my mind between building the Acorn, or perhaps going for Ian's Gray Seal. On the topic of boat plans... There is a turn of the century book called "The Tent Dwellers" by Albert Bigelow Paine about canoing in Nova Scotia. Each chapter starts out with a little ditty. My favorite is "Make you plans when it's cold outside, and the north winds they do blow. For half the joy of the trip my boy is setting your traps to go." Maps, boat plans, dreams. They all warm the soul. Regards, Steve >>Steve, >I was only a third of the way through my profile list when I realized I may >have misjudged the sense of humor thing, so I decided to stop before I got >to far behind. I would have eventually covered the areas you mentioned. > >I bet your Oughtred sailing canoe is a beauty. I have sets of plans for >Ian Oughtred's Acorn Skiff and Walter Simmons's Lincolnville Wherry that I >purchased 15+ years ago. I did a full size loft of the wherry on the floor >of a previously owned house but never went any further than that. The floor >was carpeted, the house sold and the plans are still in the drawer for a >future project. > >20. Tendency to get involved in too many projects, varied interests, lack >of focus. > > >Mike >M17 #369 > > > >> >>I don't think you have it. Or at least not entirely. I've always been an >>enthusiast for R.L. Winston rods, and you forgot to mention telemark skiis. >>Other than that, you're pretty much on the spot. >> >>Regards, >> >>Steve > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: RE: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 26 Feb 2000 10:16:26 -0800 Voile plates are not the complete answer. I've got a broken tooth and a facial scar from a released ski on the end of the leash. BTW, Keith is a telemarker, too. Steve >>What are the chances that you're a telemark skier??? > >This is getting weird. I have the torn-up knee to show that I used to be. I >discovered Voile plates too late. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rland@win.bright.net Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 26 Feb 2000 12:26:56 -0600 Giles, etc. I had the same problem re: knee vs. tele skis. THEN they came out with the release bindings. Don't you just hate that? At least they invented PFDs before I started boating :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WrichW@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: Performance Date: 26 Feb 2000 14:05:10 EST Anyone Who Will Listen: I'm new to the list. Actually, I was on it for a short time last year. You all really love your Montgomery 15s and 17s. It is a delight to see. I teach sailing on the Potomac River in the summer and am thinking about starting my own school. One boat and one instructor (me) on the weekends. I'd love to get your reactions to whether the Montgomery 17 would be a good boat to teach sailing on. I plan classes from beginners to the basics of cruising. What I cannot find in searching the archives of your LISTSERV is much reference to performance of the boat under various wind and sea conditions. I'll be teaching on the Chesapeake Bay when I get the right boat. So the winds are from very little to a force 6 now and again. Is the 17 the right boat to teach beginners to basic cruising? How does the 17 balance under various winds, i.e., what do you fly to minimize weather helm and under what conditions does the 17 develop lee helm? What sails are flown at what winds in order to achieve balance? At what angle of heel does the 17 sail best? Any other information on performance would be much appreciated. Of course, if the 17 is the right boat, then I need to find one. A task I understand is not simple, given its popularity. Thanks, Walt Wood ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Performance Date: 26 Feb 2000 12:21:50 -0700 Here's a quote from Jerry Montgomery: PERFORMANCE: I'm the kind of guy that from the first time I went sailing I tried to pass every boat in sight, and I'm not alone. One of the fun things in life is to work your way past a Catalina 22 and, once ahead and upwind, oversheet just a bit to rub it in. The 17 is a giant killer. A well-tuned 17 is very close-winded and excels in the extremes. She glides along beautifully in a drifter and will outsail most trailerables of 20 to 22 feet in a blow, particularly upwind. Boats like Potters and Compacs are so far behind they might as well be going the other way, A slow boat is not fun to sail, and I imagine that it's not fun to have a couple of little kids in an 8' pram jeer at you as they overtake and sail past. A boat that is a dog in light air or won't sail to weather against a 25 knot wind is frustrating and a real bore. Think about it. I sometimes joke about "floaters" or "floating house trailers" (boats that float around rather than sail), but they're really not a joke if your are trying to sail one. I have the attitude that the first requirement of a sailboat is to sail well and I take great pains to make the 17 an outstanding sailboat. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Performance Date: 26 Feb 2000 14:36:05 EST In a message dated 2/26/2000 11:05:54 AM, you wrote: <> Walt, I taught sailing for many years on San Francisco Bay. I have an M15, so I=20 will have to defer to M17 owners for your specific questions regarding=20 performance, but, for what it is worth, I think the M17 would be a good=20 candidate for small (one or two person plus instructor) classes. One of my=20 favorite aspects of the M15 is the way it combines the lively (read=20 responsive) feeling of a dinghy with the stability (relative), seaworthiness= =20 (also relative), and feel of a bigger keel boat. While I have not had much= =20 experience with the M17, I suspect that it has similar characteristics, and=20 would be considerably more comfortable for teaching purposes. Also, I like=20 the more forgiving nature of these smaller boats. Everything is more=20 human-scale, and the potential for accident or injury (fingers wrapped in=20 winches, head-to-boom encounters, etc.) is, I believe, less than on larger=20 keel boats. =20 Will you be licensed/bonded/insured? Check with the appropriate agencies as= =20 to any specific vessel requirements and limitations on number of students on= =20 board, etc. Good Luck! Scott Grometer, M15 #478. "b=E9b=E9" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WrichW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Performance Date: 26 Feb 2000 15:24:10 EST Scott, Thanks for the quick reply. I've just begun the search concerning requirements for license/bonding/insurance. Are you an ASA instructor? The place I teach now does not require any credentials except to learn how they do it and to show that you know what you are doing. I did get Gary Jobson's intro to sailing book this winter (the ASA method) and the way my employer does it matches closely the advice from ASA. Again thanks, Walt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WrichW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Performance Date: 26 Feb 2000 15:28:27 EST Keith: Thank you for your note from Jerry M. I take it that you sponsor the listserv. It is a fine service. Thanks for your work. Walt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 26 Feb 2000 21:57:35 -0500 Steve wrote >On the boat front, I am trying to make up my mind between building the Acorn, or perhaps going for Ian's Gray Seal. < Iain has a newer design out called the Eun Na Mara (Sea bird - Scots Gaelic) and it is a beautiful 19'9'' Canoe Yawl. With the bowsprit and gaff rigged sails it will really be a standout boat. It is over canvasse= d to excel in lighter winds but with the low profile sails it should do ok = in a blow if you reef early. 240 sq ft sail area and the boat weighs in at 2300 lbs. Take a good look at it Doug M15 "Seas the Day" Cape Dory 25 "Moon Shadow" 15' Gloucester Gull 6' Feather ( Iain Oughtred) under construction 2 bikes, fishing equiptment, skis etc.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 26 Feb 2000 22:41:00 -0500 Hi Doug... >>I stop in Atlanta a few times a year and spend the night or stay a whil= e because that's where my brother lives. He keeps his MacGregor 26 on Lanie= r. Maybe can let you know next time I come down and take you up on your offe= r (Sorry you mentioned it now, aren't you? ;).<<< I have never regretted _any_ invitation that I've extended to any of my cyber-friends. I've thoroughly enjoyed their company, and from what I've seen of your posts, we should get along well. = There's an '85 or '86 M-17 at Sunrise Cove. Met the owner once...he live= d about 5 miles from me when I lived in Marietta (Smyrna). I now live clos= e to the lake, in Cumming, Ga Regards, Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: Message from Internet Date: 26 Feb 2000 22:41:00 -0500 Hi Mike.. You forgot also has a passion to put all his bullets into the X ring at 1000 yards Harvey/Ga.. a crusty 64 M-17 Stargazer #294....with a decent trailer and sparkling Seagull outboard = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mikit Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 26 Feb 2000 22:18:52 -0700 Steve, I have not seen Ian's Grey Seal but if you decide on building an Acorn, I would be glad to lend you the plans if you need. If I'm on the water this summer as much as I want to be, it will take me another two years to finish this house. When I do get to building a wooden boat, the wherry and a canoe would be the first and second. I may never get to the Acorn skiff. Mike M-17 #369 > >On the boat front, I am trying to make up my mind between building the >Acorn, or perhaps going for Ian's Gray Seal. > > >Regards, > >Steve > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 27 Feb 2000 12:42:18 EST Hey Doug or Harvey......where near Altlanta is Clayton State College located? My son is being recruited to go there and run for them.....Which means I will have to bring my 23 East.........Harvey, a friend of mine told me about sailing on Lanier with a friend of his...said it was very nice...Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 27 Feb 2000 12:47:43 -0500 Giles, Now that you're started on Telemark skiing, I have to put in my oar too, and ask if anybody on the list is old enough to remember racing downhills on 8 foot hickory skis with long thong bindings. We got sick of heel lift with the Kandahar cable bindings so ski boot tied tight to the ski was the way to go - as long as you knew what you were doing! Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 27 Feb 2000 10:40:43 -0800 Connie, You know that old say about fashion, that is... everything comes back into style. We are again skiing cable bindings, freeheel. If it was easy, they would call it something other than telemarking. Most of the skiis are composite now, but many (like mine) have a wood core. We have wandered away from leather boots, and now use plastic double boots with an articulated toe. Climbing skins are now synthetic, rather than real skin. All things considered it is... Lifts, we don't need no stinking lifts. Apologies to "Treasure of the Sierra Madre". Steve >Giles, >Now that you're started on Telemark skiing, I have to put in my oar too, >and ask if anybody on the list is old enough to remember racing downhills >on 8 foot hickory skis with long thong bindings. We got sick of heel >lift with the Kandahar cable bindings so ski boot tied tight to the ski >was the way to go - as long as you knew what you were doing! > >Connie >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Sea Pearl expeditions! Date: 27 Feb 2000 14:43:18 -0500 I came accross a comercial site for Sea Pearl expedtitions in the Bahamas= . = http://www.exuma-bahamas.com/intro.cfm What a nice thought for this time of year. I wonder if I could make a living on M17 expeditions on the Chesapeak? Doug M15 "Sea the Day" Cape Dory 25 "Moon Shadow" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Iain Oughtred Date: 27 Feb 2000 14:43:18 -0500 Todd wrote >The only place on the web that I've seen Iain Oughtred's designs has been at databoat.....do you know of another site?< I don't know of any sites but the Eun Na Mara was written up in Wooden Bo= at last year. I orderded Iain's catalog two years ago. I had tentative plans to build the Wee Seal and wrote to Iain about my plans and he suggested the Eun Na= Mara. You could sail the Eun Na Mara anywhere you could and M15. Doug M15 "Seas the Day" Cape Dory 25 "Moon Shadow" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 27 Feb 2000 15:23:02 -0500 (EST) At 12:42 PM 2/27/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hey Doug or Harvey......where near Altlanta is Clayton State College located? > My son is being recruited to go there and run for them.....Which means I >will have to bring my 23 East.........Harvey, a friend of mine told me about >sailing on Lanier with a friend of his...said it was very nice...Larry > Larry, I'm sure Harvey can tell you easily, but I went ahead and found some web info. Clayton College and State University is 15 miles south of Atlanta. Their web site is http://www.clayton.edu/. Travel directions are there, too. Lanier is north of Atlanta, I expect Harvey can give you more accurate travel time than I can; I'd guesstimate almost an hour and a half, at best. Traffic's much worse than when I lived there. Maybe you should consider looking at Virginia Tech. Everybody here runs, trying to get away from the West Virginians. Of course, they make it easier, what with one leg being longer than the other from walking around mountains all their lives. The only West Virginians you don't have to run fast from is the football team. (Sorry Mountaineers, couldn't resist getting three pokes in.) I see there are two Dougs on the list now. Gee, maybe we can distinguish between Doug Kelch and myself by using our initials... Doug King ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 27 Feb 2000 16:48:20 EST RE the initials, I hope Don King doesnt buy a Monty boat!!! LB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: M_Boats: Practical Sailor on teak treatment Date: 27 Feb 2000 17:19:41 -0500 (EST) Well, the front has come through and I can't mess around on the boat today, so thought I'd write a summary of the Practical Sailor evaluation. I did learn two things yesterday playworking on the boat: 1) You should not put three people (one of which is large, but not me) in the cockpit and aft of the trailer wheels, unless you miss crossing a big power yacht's wake bow-on or enjoy sailing the Gulf Current in a north wind. She came back down real easy, though; and 2) Don't ever poke a big dog in the eye, even if it's an accident. PS TEAK TREATMENT TEST Practical Sailor (http://www.practical-sailor.com) basically broke down the major alternatives for treating teak into two: painting, and applying a barrier, which they break down into three types: oil, stain or varnish. The problem, they say, is UV, not salt or water. Interestingly, at least to me, is that Sailnet (below) concluded that oil was the way to go. More frequent applications, but easier to do and no need to remove previous treatment. Since I'm faced with the same need to do something, I had decided to go with oil, until PS arrived. They dismiss oils out of hand, saying they have to be re-applied several times a year. If not applied frequently enough they say, wood will discolor and must be bleached or sanded before applying a new coat. They didn't evaluate oils at all. Pigmented stains are better they say, because the pigment particles block UV, they last one to three years, and are easy to re-apply unless one lets it go for too long. Problems are that it will stain hard on fiberglass unless masked, and because it's a stain, hides the grain of the wood, leaving a "painty" look, but is becoming more preferred. PS rates 18 varnishes, stains, urethanes and epoxy-based products. The trouble is these are ongoing tests, so some have only been tested for 6 months, some for 42. PS rates the 18 with about 7 different criteria; at the risk of getting into copyright trouble (stop reading PS employees, I'm already going to get in trouble with Performance Trailers), here are the results to date: Rated Excellent (in alphabetical order): Bristol Finish, tested for 6 months; Honey Teak, 42 months; Smith and Co. Five-Year Clear, 42 months; Teak Shield Gloss and Satin,, 6 months; Woolsey Protective Coating, 18 months. Very Good: Armada Semi-Gloss, 18 months; Woodmate Gloss and Semi-gloss (oil/alkyd base), 6 months; Woodmate Semi (water base), 6 months. Good: Armada Gloss, 18 months; Armada MC2000, 6 months; Burgess Hydroguard + HydroVarnish, 6 months; Burgess HydroVarnish, 6 months; Sikkens Cetol Marine, 42 months; Woodmate Gloss (water base), 6 months. Fair: Burgess HydroGuard, 6 months. Poor: Sav-Cote Plasticlear, 12 months. There are big differences in price, from $35/gal (Armada MC2000) to $184/gal (Honey Teak), and application from 2 coats over 2 days (Burgess HydroVarnish) to 6 coats in 6 days (Honey Teak) and everything in between. Also in number of components, from one component (most of them), to two sets of two each (Bristol Finish and Smith and Co.) PS Conclusions: For matte finish: Cetol Marine, then Armada Semi, then Woolsey Protective Coating. For gloss: Honey Teak, then Smith and Co. Five-Year Clear, only because Honey Teak dries faster and it doesn't need to be stripped between coats. Third, though only tested for 6 months, is Bristol Finish. TeakGuard wasn't mentioned. Subscribe to Practical Sailor! (there; maybe that'll keep me out of trouble) Two other good articles are at http://diy-boat.com from DIY boat owner and Marine Maintenance magazine ("Teak 101" under archives->maintenance), and at Sailnet http://www.sailnet.com/articles/index.cfm?articleid=woodto016 (2-3 minutes to load, had a few pictures). So now I'll shut up for a while; not usually one of those annoying people who writes too much, but thought this info might be useful. DK (no, the other DK) (I didn't really poke a dog in the eye, that Marine just thought I did. Third thing I learned: it's difficult to type while in traction.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: M_Boats: Honest to God, my dad's name is Don! Date: 27 Feb 2000 17:23:55 -0500 (EST) But he's bald. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 27 Feb 2000 21:00:57 -0500 Hi Larry... Doug told you where Clayton is...it's about 60 miles south of Lake Lanier= .. maybe a bit more as the roads go. It's south of the "big circle" = I-285, while Lanier is 15 miles north of the circle. Are you planning to bring the M-23 here for any length of time ?? Slips vary a bit, with most of them on the eastern side of the lake. I'm at Aqualand, the middle of the "big three" marinas. Annual slip fee is abou= t $ 1100 without electricity. The other marinas charge a bit more, but hav= e quarterly rates...even monthly. Regards, Harvey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 27 Feb 2000 21:24:23 EST Hope you don't mind my barging in..but this sounds like a good opportunity for the Montgomerys in GA and SC to get to gether. I would like to see the M23 also, and keep my M17 on another great sailing lake..Clark Hill reservoir just north of Augusta. I would be glad to go to Lanier or host you all out here. What do you think? John M17 #372 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mikit Subject: Re: M_Boats: Practical Sailor on teak treatment Date: 27 Feb 2000 23:49:45 -0700 I came across a product, Daley's Seafin Teak Oil three years ago when I needed to finish a teak deck around a counter current lap pool. Today the finish looks as good as the day it was applied despite daily use with frequent splashing of lightly chlorinated water. This finish is not exposed to UV however. After stripping the teak on our M17 last summer, 6 coats of Seafin was applied. The finish still looks great, however the boat is protected from UV when not in use. I will not be able to give a fair assessment until the end of next season. When the finish does start to degrade, the small amount of teak on a M17 could be re-done in about 30 minutes. I am not sure exactly what the product is made of , the label does not give ingredients but it does say brain damage and death possible if you don't ventilate properly. Application is easy with a brush followed by a light 400 grit sanding and wipe down after 15 min of penetration. The surface dries to a hard, beautifully natural, low luster finish. I am encouraged so far. Mike M-17 #369 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rland@win.bright.net Subject: Re: M_Boats: Practical Sailor on teak treatment Date: 28 Feb 2000 05:50:31 -0600 Doug (King), Thanks for the varnish info. By the way, don't worry about being too wordy - I've enjoyed reading your posts; and for those who don't - well, there's always the "delete" button :-). Now if only PS had evaluated the Epifanes I've already purchased... Welcome to the M-group --- Rachel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 28 Feb 2000 15:34:17 EST Dot know for sure, but if Mike goes to school at Clayton, why shouldn't I have it there, and go to the coast, etc. It is trailerable, you know....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LBarkhuff@cs.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 28 Feb 2000 15:34:51 EST I don;t know why it wouldn't work....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Minter and Jenny Konwinski Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 28 Feb 2000 19:13:49 -0500 hey john, i'm interested in dragging my m12 down the mountain from asheville if a montgomery meet occurs at lanier. i'd love to have a look at some of the boats with sleeping accomodations. let me know if the m's start gravitating! i probably won't bother with the teak, though... tim m-12 #103 "dink" http://www.ioa.com/~elminski/boats/ Saltm17@aol.com wrote: > Hope you don't mind my barging in..but this sounds like a good opportunity > for the Montgomerys in GA and SC to get to gether. I would like to see the > M23 also, and keep my M17 on another great sailing lake..Clark Hill reservoir > just north of Augusta. I would be glad to go to Lanier or host you all out > here. What do you think? > > John > M17 #372 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: TeakGuard for Teak Protection Date: 28 Feb 2000 21:17:01 EST Alright! I will let you know. Maybe we could get together sometime anyway. Anybody else interested? John M17 #372 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SailBabb@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 23 keel pin Date: 29 Feb 2000 00:28:30 EST I own a M17 and am looking for a good sail maker to make a main. Does any one have in recommendations or suggestions. If so I am Sailbabb@aol.com. Lionel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Quiet List Date: 29 Feb 2000 20:29:59 -0500 Fran, Admirables are nice; Brides are nice too; but after having spent lots of time in England, your husband is right, give me a good wench anytime. Them's few and far between! Can you draw a pint of bitters? ....and banter with the blokes? Now there's just what we need, a British Pub's beer pumps (one will do) on the M15. Enough of this galley jazz: every boat has one of those, but a genuine British Pub beer pump, with a barrel of bitters in the bilge for ballast; I think that has great possibilities. Drinkable liquid balast. What sayeth thou good wench? .....and a dart board up forward in case the wind disappears, or a PWC appears.......! Connie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fran Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: beer, wenches, darts... Date: 29 Feb 2000 19:38:36 -0700 Conbert H Benneck wrote: Enough of this galley jazz: every boat has one of those, but a genuine British Pub beer pump, with a barrel of bitters in the bilge for ballast; I think that has great possibilities. Drinkable liquid balast. What sayeth thou good wench? .....and a dart board up forward in case the wind disappears, or a PWC appears.......!> Aye, Connie, I like what yee say! Ever been on the 'Pirates of the Caribbean' boat ride at Disneyland? Your description conjured up memories of that experience, sans the darts. The darts sound fun, tho! Fran