From: TOMMYVAL@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: centerboard pennant replacement - update Date: 01 Sep 2001 05:22:14 EDT --part1_9c.1295bcd3.28c202c6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tod, Send it along, I look forward to reading it Thx Gary --part1_9c.1295bcd3.28c202c6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tod,

Send it along, I look forward to reading it

Thx

Gary --part1_9c.1295bcd3.28c202c6_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mikit Date: 01 Sep 2001 09:10:14 -0700 The Iain Oughtred designed "Grey Seal" has been discussed here in the past as a possible boat building project. There is currently an example for sale on ebay that appears to be a nice boat. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1185451529 Mike M17-369 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 Date: 01 Sep 2001 11:41:36 -0400 Harvey & Deena, Another thought: Bob Eeg is having a stainless steel lift mount built for the M15 (and possibly for the M17 too). From what I've heard on the website, it is a nice product, and costs about the same as the FULTON mount. Check with Bob Eeg for specs and size before buying one of the others, since Bob optimized the mount for the M15. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harvey Hochstetter" Subject: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 03:08:55 -0600 Greetings, Sorry I Didn't get back to the list for a few days. My access to i-net is at work and if it gets busy work has to come first. My thanks and appreciation to each of you who responded to my queries about what size of power to add to the stern of "Pelican". I wanted a 4 cycle, and it must have a neutral position to run in. Reverse is not all that necessary but "N" is. The weight is definitely a factor and I'm not sure I'm willing to go the 43# for the Merc 5 with the either/or ( internal or external ) gas tank although I cannot understand why none of the other manufactures have caught on to that idea. For now, I'm leaning toward a Tohatsu 3.5, 2 cycle, onboard tank, forward-neutral, and with an option for an alternator for onboard battery charging. Still not sure whether to go long or short shaft but either one will be under 30 pounds. I like the idea of the Honda 2 being a four stroker, but I have real concerns about the longevity of an air cooled system. I like the Merc 5, 2cycle with the external tank option, but the 43# weight is over the top for me. I'd appreciate any input regarding these comments. I'm getting close to decision time and will probably have this decision made by Wed Sept 5. then we will be on to new ground. Thank you all for your help in making a very important decision. Deena & Harvey "Pelican" M-15 #348 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 10:59:14 EDT --part1_8c.c075d50.28c3a342_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/02/2001 9:10:50 AM !!!First Boot!!!, LoHHochs@ihc.com writes: > I wanted a 4 cycle, and it > Has anyone checked Yamaha motors. It seems I remember seeing a 4hp 4 stroke Yamaha last yr in a dealer showroom. It may have had the internal/external option too. Sandy --part1_8c.c075d50.28c3a342_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/02/2001 9:10:50 AM !!!First Boot!!!, LoHHochs@ihc.com
writes:


I wanted a 4 cycle, and it
must have a neutral position to run in.


Has anyone checked Yamaha motors. It seems I remember seeing a 4hp 4 stroke
Yamaha last yr in a dealer showroom. It may have had the internal/external
option too.

Sandy --part1_8c.c075d50.28c3a342_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 11:01:43 -0400 Hi Deena & Harvey, I have had a Honda lawn mower for about 14 years. It's air cooled: always starts on the first or second pull of the starter cord. Total reliability. My Honda 2 HP 4 cycle outboard - which doesn't have the neutral capability that the new model has - is a great machine, and I have no problems with air cooling. After all, most motorcycles were air cooled until fairly recently when the high power output demanded that they go to liquid cooling. As far as I'm concerned, air cooling is not something I'd worry about. ....but reliability is! ....and that, after my experience with lots of two cycle engines and the Honda, means I only go with a 4 cycle engine. Fouled 2 cycle engine spark plugs are OK in a lawn mower, but not on a sailboat, when engine power is needed - now! Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan White Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 11:36:35 -0500 I'll second Connie's remarks. If you were going to be operating the engine 8 hours a day, every day, then I think air cooled versus liquid cooled might be a legitimate concern. In the case of an outboard for a sailboat, I really doubt you'll ever put enough hours on the engine to get to TBO (Time Between Overhaul). Note I say "might" be a legitimate cocern. Aircraft recriprocating engines, by and large, are air cooled, the VW Beetle and Connie's lawnmower are also. The second point I'd make (as did Connie) is that two cycle engines are dirty. I would think someone using the Columbia basin would be sensitive to that. The EPA has established emission requirements for outboards that go into effect in 2006 that essentially will eliminate 2-cycle engines from the scene. While I'm not a huge fan of the EPA, I think this is one decision that is correct. I've watched too many jet skis and runabouts on the Texas Highland lakes leaving trails of blue smoke. Whether air cooled or liquid cooled, I think the correct choice should be a 4 stroke. I also think 2 hp is more than enough. If the currents you're bucking are hull speed or more, then I don't care how many horses you have, you won't be going upstream. A 2 hp engine will drive my M17 at hull speed. Dan M17 #316B Harvey Hochstetter wrote: > > Greetings, > > Sorry I Didn't get back to the list for a few days. My access to i-net > is at work and if it gets busy work has to come first. My thanks and > appreciation to each of you who responded to my queries about what size > of power to add to the stern of "Pelican". I wanted a 4 cycle, and it > must have a neutral position to run in. Reverse is not all that > necessary but "N" is. The weight is definitely a factor and I'm not > sure I'm willing to go the 43# for the Merc 5 with the either/or ( > internal or external ) gas tank although I cannot understand why none > of the other manufactures have caught on to that idea. > > For now, I'm leaning toward a Tohatsu 3.5, 2 cycle, onboard tank, > forward-neutral, and with an option for an alternator for onboard > battery charging. Still not sure whether to go long or short shaft but > either one will be under 30 pounds. > > I like the idea of the Honda 2 being a four stroker, but I have real > concerns about the longevity of an air cooled system. I like the Merc > 5, 2cycle with the external tank option, but the 43# weight is over the > top for me. > > I'd appreciate any input regarding these comments. I'm getting close > to decision time and will probably have this decision made by Wed Sept > 5. then we will be on to new ground. > > Thank you all for your help in making a very important decision. > > Deena & Harvey > "Pelican" M-15 #348 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 15:08:05 EDT >Help Please, I need some experienced In-put re: out board power for >an M-15. Hi Harvey and Deena, I have combined your questions from your two posts and will respond below. I have written lengthy dissertations on this topic to this list over the last 3-4 years, so in order to spare those who have been lurking for a while, you might want to go and read my most recent version (now posted on the MSOG site). I think you might find that it will answer at least some of your questions: http://msog.org/surveys/2strokevs4stroke.htm Here are some specific responses to your inquiry: >The currents >are seasonally variable, from 0-1knot up to 5-6. Given that the wind is >the wind, (regularly variable), and that the faster current is mid >channel only, what should I be looking for to power the M-15? I hate to say it, but no outboard appropriate to the M15 is going to give you much headway in currents exceeding 5+ knots. I will defer to those who have put 5 hp and larger motors on the M15, but my experience in British Columbia (5-9 knot currents) suggests that you want to avoid them. Given that my 2hp Honda will push my loaded M15 at or beyond theoretical hull speed, I think that additional power will meet with diminishing returns. > >I am interested in preferred Size ( HP ), Brand reliability, Two >stroke Vs Four stroke, Built in fuel tank or accessory tank, and any >thing else that I should consider. Please feel free to enlighten me. I discuss this at length at the above link. Bottom line is that I think that the 4-stroke is the right thing to do--both for the environment, and for a litany of other reasons listed in my 'dissertation'. The only small 4 stroke I know of that offers both an internal tank and an option/hookup for an external tank is the Yamaha 4-stroke 4hp (weighs about 48 pounds). >By my calculations, the M-15 hull speed is 4.8 knots, and from what I >have heard, a 2 HP will take the M-15 to that with some to spare. Will >the 2HP be enough? The theoretical hull speed rule often breaks down with smaller, lighter, semi-planing hulls. The M15 falls into this category. My Honda 2hp will push the boat past theoretical hull speed (and I often sail faster than same). Again, I will leave it to those who have put larger outboards on the M15 to comment. My guess is that you may gain some small incremental gain in possible speed at a large cost in weight and cost. Will the factory bracket handle a 5HP? Should I >install the new OB adjustable bracket to get the OB prop out of the >water when not powering? I would ask Giles about this one. He had a 5hp Honda on his M15 for some time. I believe he switched to a Honda 2hp. I will say this: I have seen three M15's with hull-to-deck separation along the transom, and each had large outboards (5, 6, or larger two-strokes). In fairness, one of these had been trailered with the outboard on the bracket (I think this is a really, really bad idea for any size outboard regardless of size. The joint in question is not thru-bolted as is the rest of the hull to deck joint, and just about anything you stick on the outboard bracket, stock or otherwise, has a nice big leverarm to torque the transom over every bump). I use the stock bracket with a Honda 2hp long shaft. The motor drags a bit on a starboard tack, but I am cruising, not racing--and besides, the effect on speed seems negligible. See my 'dissertation' regarding a possible modification to the stock bracket. Others have had success with lifting brackets. I will defer to them. >Is anyone running electric with photo cell >rechargers. This is a nice idea, and one that I hope will someday be feasible. For now, the available electric outboards fall into two categories: 1) small trolling motors, and 2) very expensive outboard replacement models requiring large battery banks, and very limited in availability. The first group will not likely meet your criteria for pushing the boat against stiff currents. Some on this list have tried small trolling motors as an alternative to petrol motors for getting in/out of harbors, or to get back in if the wind dies, but for more extended/multi-day use, I don't think this a viable option. The problem with either option for the M15 is that to replace the amps used by the motor for the type of use you are describing would require an array of photovoltaic panels larger than the boat itself. For the type of panels appropriate to the M15--say the 22" x 10" Unisolar flexible panel that fits nicely on the sliding companionway hatch--you are looking at a maximum charging rate of 0.30 amps. Considering how quickly an electric motor can drain a 105 amp. hour battery (remember, most batteries should not be taken below 50% charge, or damage can result)--you are looking at waiting many moons before you would be able to go a relatively short distance. Hopefully future advances in battery and photo cell technology will make pure electric a viable option. > I wanted a 4 cycle, and it >must have a neutral position to run in. Reverse is not all that >necessary but "N" is. The Honda 2HP (28-29lbs.) is offered in both a fixed/direct drive (always in forward), and neutral (has a clutch that provides neutral at idle rpm) versions. Additionally, you can choose between slide lever throttle and twist-grip throttle (though, if I am not mistaken, the neutral model may only come in twist grip throttle). Next step up is the Yamaha 4, or the various 4hp versions from Mercury, Evinrude/Johnson, Tohatsu, etc. The weight is definitely a factor and I'm not >sure I'm willing to go the 43# for the Merc 5 with the either/or ( >internal or external ) gas tank although I cannot understand why none >of the other manufactures have caught on to that idea. See note above about the Yamaha 4hp--it allows both. >For now, I'm leaning toward a Tohatsu 3.5, 2 cycle, onboard tank, >forward-neutral, and with an option for an alternator for onboard >battery charging. Still not sure whether to go long or short shaft but >either one will be under 30 pounds. Even if you don't do the 4-stroke thing for environmental reasons, you might want to consider that a growing number of lakes and rivers are banning 2-strokes, and that this is happening nationwide. See other comments on this subject in my 'dissertation'. >I like the idea of the Honda 2 being a four stroker, but I have real >concerns about the longevity of an air cooled system. I like the Merc >5, 2cycle with the external tank option, but the 43# weight is over the >top for me. I believe that there is nothing inherently more reliable about a water-cooled system. I would in fact argue that, to the contrary, an air-cooled motor may well be more reliable--if for no other reason, on account of their simplicity. One only need look to aircraft engines, industrial diesel engines, the early Porsche and Volkswagen engines, etc. The primary concern is that the cooling surface be sufficient to accommodate varying loads in a wide variety of conditions. In automotive and industrial applications, airflow is controlled thermostatically to meet cooling demand (and in some cases, the oil is used to help cool the engine). For purposes of the marine environment, the ambient air temperature is tempered, at least in degree, by the proximity to the relatively cool water (especially in the Pacific Northwest). We motored almost constantly (often for 10-12 hours per day) for three weeks while cruising British Columbia on our M15 (alas, it was a nearly windless summer). We had no problems whatsoever, even during 90 degree F. days (I did run a slightly heavier oil in these conditions per Honda's recommendations). By the way, the Honda 2hp powerhead is cooled by air, but the exhaust is still water cooled (don't run it out of water!!!). >I'd appreciate any input regarding these comments. I'm getting close >to decision time and will probably have this decision made by Wed Sept >5. then we will be on to new ground. I wish you luck in whatever you decide. I offer the above with hope that it may be helfpful. Perhaps the best approach would be for you to borrow the motor you are considering to evaluate before purchasing. Sincerely, Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp/4stroke on ebay Date: 02 Sep 2001 16:21:04 EDT Thought that with all the discussion of outboards, someone might be interested in a 1998 Yamaha 4hp, 4-stroke, long shaft that I saw on ebay. Go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1185882894 (Disclaimer: I know nothing about this motor other than what I read on ebay!) Scott Grometer, M15, #478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Riker" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 02 Sep 2001 16:53:46 -0400 I must be missing something. The Honda 2's have a water cooled exhaust. But what does that mean? The exhaust exits under water, and that keeps the noise down. But "cooled?" Why does exhaust need to be cooled? And what could it hurt, besides your ears, to run it out of the water? Thanks, Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 16:58:08 EDT --part1_e6.1a9fa679.28c3f760_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The water/air cooled subject has a more to say. If you live in Az and it's 115 outside, you want water cooling. An air cooled engine is a lot noisier than water cooling due to the water jacket muffling the sound. Air cooled 2 strokes can melt piston rings in this weather. As for HP verses hull speed; You need 30% more power if you're motoring into a sea. Every time you plow into a 4' wave, you almost come to a stop. HP is the only cure. Sandy --part1_e6.1a9fa679.28c3f760_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The water/air cooled subject has a more to say. If you live in Az and it's
115 outside, you want water cooling. An air cooled engine is a lot noisier
than water cooling due to the water jacket muffling the sound. Air cooled 2
strokes can melt piston rings in this weather.
As for HP verses hull speed; You need 30% more power if you're motoring into
a sea. Every time you plow into a 4' wave, you almost come to a stop. HP is
the only cure.

Sandy --part1_e6.1a9fa679.28c3f760_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 02 Sep 2001 14:05:28 -0700 Deena & Harvey, FWIW & IMHO, Connie and Scott's recommendations are reinforced by years of practical experience and sailing knowledge. All of their arguments are valid. I would defer to their suggestions or advice any day. All I might add to what the others have written is: Do yourself a favor and get the Honda 2 hp with a centrifugal clutch. One important factor the others didn't mentioned is the lifting of any outboard that weighs over 30 pounds on and off the motormount. I sold my Evinrude 4hp because (never mind the eccentricities of a 2-cycle motor) it was much too heavy to hang on the transom of my M15 and it was a real back buster to lift up/on/off. Joe Kidd M15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 02 Sep 2001 17:21:48 EDT In a message dated 9/2/01 1:58:26 PM, wriker@mindspring.com writes: >I must be missing something. >The Honda 2's have a water cooled exhaust. But what does that mean? The >exhaust exits under water, and that keeps the noise down. But "cooled?" >Why does exhaust need to be cooled? And what could it hurt, besides your >ears, to run it out of the water? The Honda 2 has a water pickup hole below the waterline of the motor (exact location depends on the year/model). Within the shaft casing there is a small water pump impeller that pumps water up the casing and into the exhaust port at the engine. I can not say for sure, but I would assume that Honda deems this cooling necessary--perhaps to help keep the temperature down at the exhaust valve/valve guide (heat from the exhaust pipe might otherwise super-heat the head??). At any rate, I am sure that they would not have put it there if it was not necessary. As for running it out of water--you do not want to because the rubber impeller for the exhaust water will burn up in short order (in as little as 30 seconds, according to my Honda dealer). The Honda owner's manual concurs that it should not be run out of the water. I carry a spares kit that includes a couple of extra impellers just in case the intake ever gets plugged up. To date, I have had no problems with either plugging or deterioration of the impeller. I ALWAYS flush the motor in fresh water upon returning home. Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 17:55:06 EDT In a message dated 9/2/01 1:58:49 PM, Sandyal55@aol.com writes: >The water/air cooled subject has a more to say. If you live in Az and it's > >115 outside, you want water cooling. An air cooled engine is a lot noisier > >than water cooling due to the water jacket muffling the sound. Air cooled >2 >strokes can melt piston rings in this weather. >As for HP verses hull speed; You need 30% more power if you're motoring >into >a sea. Every time you plow into a 4' wave, you almost come to a stop. HP >is >the only cure. > >Sandy Sandy, In principle, I agree that most air cooled motors are noisier than water cooled motors (this is in part why Porsche moved away from air cooled motors in the 911/Carrera series, though they resisted for years because it added more weight). I would add, however, that the Honda 2--at least to my ears--is quieter than the comparable hp water cooled two-strokes that I have had the misfortune of owning. I think that this attributable to a couple of factors. 1) I believe that the four stroke makes its power at a significantly lower RPM, and thus does not have that attendant high RPM drone that I have experienced with 2-strokes which tend to have their peak power at much higher RPM's. 2) I think that Honda has done a good job of insulating the shroud/cover to cut down on noise. The newer model is even better at this than the previous generation, as it now encloses virtually the entire powerhead. I must concede, however, that the four stroke does vibrate more than two-strokes I have experienced. I cannot comment on operation of the Honda at temperatures beyond 95 degrees F. It would be interesting to hear what Honda has to say about this. The only reference to heat in the owner's manual is in the context of which viscosity of oil to use in varying conditions. Their chart indicates appropriate oils for use in temperatures exceeding 100 degrees f., but I think that if i lived where you do, I would take what you say to heart and consider water cooling (alas, this means a two-stroke, as there are no other 2hp four strokes that I am aware of). As for the 30% more power rule, I agree that it would be ideal to have more than 2hp available for rough conditions, but that when evaluated in the larger context of what weight motor is appropriate to the M15, I just can't see putting a 48lb+ outboard on there. I have used the 2hp in rather horrible conditions on both San Francisco bay (35+ knots of wind, steep chop resulting from strong ebbing current running against big wind waves) and in British Columbia (against current eddies and confused seas), and have found it to be adequate (though I have momentarily been stopped dead by swell/waves on a couple occasions). More power might have helped, but I am not sure how much more power would have been required. How did you arrive at 30%? I would be curious to hear what Giles has to say on this subject, as he is the only list member I know of who has deployed both the Honda 2hp and 5hp. I would imagine that his experience would be the definitive one in determining whether the extra power warranted the extra weight. Until then, I'll be waiting for the 5hp, 20lb hydrogen fuel cell outboard (could double as a watermaker!!) Stay cool down there, Sandy! Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 19:45:05 EDT --part1_73.1270b44f.28c41e81_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/02/2001 9:55:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Wilsometer@aol.com writes: > How did you arrive at 30%? > > After 42 years of boating, both power and sail, I use that figure for most everything, from towing capacities to motor size. I never use all of it, but it makes the vehicle/engine last a lot longer because it's never taxed to the limit. Sandy PS: If you can't lift 42 lbs into the trunk of your car, you shouldn't be cranking on a winch. It's time for the gym. As I said earlier, look into a Yamaha. One thing I've heard from world cruising sailors, Honda's parts supply system is lacking in many parts of the world. There are no Honda parts houses in Az. We have to mail order every Honda part. Yamaha parts are here now. --part1_73.1270b44f.28c41e81_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/02/2001 9:55:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Wilsometer@aol.com
writes:


How did you arrive at 30%?



After 42 years of boating, both power and sail, I use that figure for most
everything, from towing capacities to motor size. I never use all of it, but
it makes the vehicle/engine last a lot longer because it's never taxed to the
limit.

Sandy

PS: If you can't lift 42 lbs into the trunk of your car, you shouldn't be
cranking on a winch. It's time for the gym. As I said earlier, look into a
Yamaha. One thing I've heard from world cruising sailors, Honda's parts
supply system is lacking in many parts of the world. There are no Honda parts
houses in Az. We have to mail order every Honda part. Yamaha parts are here
now. --part1_73.1270b44f.28c41e81_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Yake Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4hp/4stroke on ebay Date: 02 Sep 2001 18:03:21 -0700 Scott, Thanks for the tip. I've been watching the ads all summer for a Yamaha. Larry Y. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Yamaha vs. Honda, weight, etc. Date: 02 Sep 2001 21:20:48 EDT In a message dated 9/2/01 4:45:45 PM, Sandyal55@aol.com writes: >After 42 years of boating, both power and sail, I use that figure for most >everything, from towing capacities to motor size. I never use all of it, >but it makes the vehicle/engine last a lot longer because it's never taxed >to the limit. I agree with your reasoning. I am not sure how much HP comprises an extra 30% on the M15. What is your current boat? What HP motor? It would be interesting to compare HP/weight ratios between the various boats. >PS: If you can't lift 42 lbs into the trunk of your car, you shouldn't be >cranking on a winch. It's time for the gym. My concern is whether the transom of the M15 (and not whether I) can take the extra weight/force (I am not saying that it cannot, but only that I have now seen three M15's with separating hull-deck joints at the transom, and all of these had larger outboards. I would love to have a Yamaha 4, but I am worried about what it might do to the boat). >As I said earlier, look into a >Yamaha. One thing I've heard from world cruising sailors, Honda's parts >supply system is lacking in many parts of the world. There are no Honda >parts houses in Az. We have to mail order every Honda part. Yamaha parts are here >now. Yes, I have heard the same thing. We are fortunate in the SF Bay Area to have at least three dealers (two in Alameda, and one in Alviso). I agree that Yamaha has a better parts and service network. And although I have had no trouble with the Honda, I would consider a Yamaha 2hp 4-stroke if it existed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Jacobs" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 18:03:48 -0700 Hey, I drove a turbocharged 180 hp air cooled Corvair for 15 years .... no trouble either... oh well, maybe a fan belt or two and a couple of thermostats :) -Peter- ======================= Peter Jacobs, M17 "Enfin" Victoria BC Canada 'The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in sailing.' -- Anonymous ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 8:01 AM > Hi Deena & Harvey, > > I have had a Honda lawn mower for about 14 years. It's air cooled: > always starts on the first or second pull of the starter cord. Total > reliability. > > My Honda 2 HP 4 cycle outboard - which doesn't have the neutral > capability that the new model has - is a great machine, and I have no > problems with air cooling. After all, most motorcycles were air cooled > until fairly recently when the high power output demanded that they go to > liquid cooling. As far as I'm concerned, air cooling is not something > I'd worry about. ....but reliability is! ....and that, after my > experience with lots of two cycle engines and the Honda, means I only go > with a 4 cycle engine. Fouled 2 cycle engine spark plugs are OK in a > lawn mower, but not on a sailboat, when engine power is needed - now! > > Connie > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 02 Sep 2001 21:31:34 EDT In a message dated 9/2/01 6:25:56 PM, pjacobs@islandnet.com writes: >Hey, I drove a turbocharged 180 hp air cooled Corvair for 15 years .... >no > >trouble either... oh well, maybe a fan belt or two and a couple of > >thermostats :) > Certainly you are not going to compare the Honda to a Corvair??? (Actually, we had a Corvair too--it was fun. Not what comes to mind as the pinnacle of reliability, however!) Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Consideri Date: 02 Sep 2001 20:57:39 -0500 > I would ask Giles about this one. He had a 5hp Honda on his M15 for some > time. I believe he switched to a Honda 2hp I did indeed. I was never concerned about the 5HP being too much for the factory bracket, but that much weight hanging on the transom was noticeable. The boat handled it well, but there was always much more power than needed. When the 2HP with clutch became available, I bought one. It does double duty as a motor for Umiaq, the M-15, and as a motor for Moby Dink -- the inflatable dinghy that lives with Dolphin. > The Honda 2HP (28-29lbs.) is offered in both a fixed/direct drive (always in > forward), and neutral (has a clutch that provides neutral at idle rpm) > versions. Additionally, you can choose between slide lever throttle and > twist-grip throttle (though, if I am not mistaken, the neutral model may only > come in twist grip throttle). My clutched version has twist-grip, and the manual puts the two features together. >>For now, I'm leaning toward a Tohatsu 3.5, 2 cycle, onboard tank, >>forward-neutral, and with an option for an alternator for onboard >>battery charging. Still not sure whether to go long or short shaft but >>either one will be under 30 pounds. A friend uses the 2.5HP version of that as a dinghy motor. He's pleased with it, but since it replaced an aged British Seagull (Complete with Exxon Valdez oil slick) his standards probably aren't very high. I think that it's unacceptably noisy. >I believe that there is nothing inherently more reliable about a water-cooled >system Not at the specific power outputs that we're talking about here. This isn't a highly-stressed environment. One nice thing about an air-cooled power head is that it doesn't piddle on your hand or into the boat when you turn it round for reverse. Personally, I see the air cooling as an advantage in this context. (Warnng! I've had four air cooled cars). Giles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha vs. Honda, weight, etc. Date: 03 Sep 2001 01:50:42 EDT --part1_120.3fce556.28c47432_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/03/2001 1:21:19 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Wilsometer@aol.com writes: > . I had an Aquarious 23 with a Johnson 8HP sailmaster. The Aq23 has a lot more windage than a 15'er which is also a factor in choosing an engine. The only boat I have now is a 10' Avon rollup. I use a Johnson (Tohatsu) 2.3 hp on it. I'm content with the motor but would like a little more power and a 4 stroke unit. I'm looking for a Freedom 33 cat ketch to live aboard and cruise for a few years. Sandy --part1_120.3fce556.28c47432_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/03/2001 1:21:19 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Wilsometer@aol.com
writes:


.  What is your current boat? What HP motor?


I had an Aquarious 23 with a Johnson 8HP sailmaster. The Aq23 has a lot more
windage than a 15'er which is also a factor in choosing an engine. The only
boat I have now is a 10' Avon rollup. I use a Johnson (Tohatsu) 2.3 hp on it.
I'm content with the motor but would like a little more power and a 4 stroke
unit. I'm looking for a Freedom 33 cat ketch to live aboard and cruise for a
few years.

Sandy --part1_120.3fce556.28c47432_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Sandy/Freedoms Date: 03 Sep 2001 01:59:32 EDT In a message dated 9/2/01 10:51:47 PM, Sandyal55@aol.com writes: >I'm looking for a Freedom 33 cat ketch to live aboard and cruise for a > >few years. > >Sandy Nice boat! I like the Freedoms (especially the older Hoyt designs)--especially the 33 and the somewhat rare 28. I'll keep an eye out and let you know if I see any for sale in this neck of the woods (including Seattle area since I get 48 North). There is also a Freedom list similar to the M-boats list. Do you know about this? If not, I will get the info from a friend who had a Freedom 21 until recently. Some of the older Freedom designs are still in production in the UK! Cheers! Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Riker" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 03 Sep 2001 07:57:26 -0400 Thanks for the info, Scott. I have no inclination to run the motor "dry" - the question was theoretical. The manual doesn't mention the impeller as a user-servicable part. Have you replaced yours? Is it easily accessible? Thanks, Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Wilsometer@aol.com Sent: September 02, 2001 5:22 PM In a message dated 9/2/01 1:58:26 PM, wriker@mindspring.com writes: >I must be missing something. >The Honda 2's have a water cooled exhaust. But what does that mean? The >exhaust exits under water, and that keeps the noise down. But "cooled?" >Why does exhaust need to be cooled? And what could it hurt, besides your >ears, to run it out of the water? The Honda 2 has a water pickup hole below the waterline of the motor (exact location depends on the year/model). Within the shaft casing there is a small water pump impeller that pumps water up the casing and into the exhaust port at the engine. I can not say for sure, but I would assume that Honda deems this cooling necessary--perhaps to help keep the temperature down at the exhaust valve/valve guide (heat from the exhaust pipe might otherwise super-heat the head??). At any rate, I am sure that they would not have put it there if it was not necessary. As for running it out of water--you do not want to because the rubber impeller for the exhaust water will burn up in short order (in as little as 30 seconds, according to my Honda dealer). The Honda owner's manual concurs that it should not be run out of the water. I carry a spares kit that includes a couple of extra impellers just in case the intake ever gets plugged up. To date, I have had no problems with either plugging or deterioration of the impeller. I ALWAYS flush the motor in fresh water upon returning home. Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: M_Boats: Tod's Trip Date: 03 Sep 2001 07:45:02 -0500 Tod: Don't change a word. It sounded like a fun trip. If you send this to Doug for the MSOG, try to include a small scale chart that outlines your route. I tried to follow along on an atlas, and lost you after the second day. I just got back from the annual Labor Day raft up on our local lake. Twenty boats in attendance, mine of course was the smallest. There is a little bit of percieved contempt from the 30 footer crowd, but they let me in cause the lapstrake hull makes it look like a salty little boat. As far as I know, I was one of maybe 3 or 4 boats to actually sail all the way from the marina to the raft up. Maybe 6 miles, and took all afternoon to get there. It was mostly dead downwind in light air of maybe 5 to 8 knots, when it was blowing at all. Powerboats swarming like a beehive.... their wakes shaking the wind from the sails. Average speed for the first 2 hours was 0 to 1 knot. With about 1.5 miles to go, and getting frustrated, I popped open a cold one. About half way through that, I noticed a gentle breeze was blowing. When I set down the empty, a glance at the GPS showed I was doing 3 knots, running wing and wing and more breeze coming. I shot through a narrow pass doing 4.5 knots and met 5 powerboats in the middle of it that looked like they were having a race. They passed me on both sides with no more than 30 feet between us. But by then, I was in a much better mood and just waved...no longer contemplating the lead required to hit a moving target at 100 yards with a flare gun. The return trip was weird too. Light and variable winds dead on the nose...but with sudden gusts you could go from sails hanging dead limp to a gust that would heel the boat 20 degrees and snap you up to 4 knots like a tow rope on a water skier...then shifting 40 degrees to head you off to a hove to position...then back to dead calm. At one point, I sailed close hauled on a 70 degree heading change without ever touching the sails. But fall is coming. The powerboats will be gone...the wind steady from the southwest and the good times will roll! Howard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 03 Sep 2001 07:52:55 -0500 I just noticed the turnbuckle on my forestay needs to be replaced (half the threads on one end are completly stripped!). About all I have to work with are the West Marine and Defender catalogs. Is one brand or style better than the others, or does it not matter? Howard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 03 Sep 2001 08:58:10 EDT In a message dated 09/03/2001 5:47:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, haudsley@tranquility.net writes: << About all I have to work with are the West Marine and Defender catalogs. Is one brand or style better than the others, or does it not matter? >> Howard WM products are an excellent source of replacement parts........Personal preference on what style or material to use.........Sail on............ Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 03 Sep 2001 10:01:45 -0400 Hi Scott, Your specifications for the ideal O/B need a bit more refinement. 5 HP, 20 lb, hydrogen fuel cell powered O/B that doubles as a water maker is a big step in the right direction, but it should also be able to play Mozart or Vivaldi through appropriate hi-fi speakers while under sail or power. Just solved the hi-fi music problem on LEPPO with a SONY CD player, and two small SONY speakers. The CD player is the size of a griddlecake; runs for 25 hours on two AA batteries, and since it is equipped with a car conversion kit, and a 110 volt transformer, it can also be used at home to feed my hi-fi system; or as a single CD player in the car. Maximum goodness: three uses for one boat item! I also use a Grundig YB300PE radio receiver (all international bands plus AM /FM) [ 6" x3 1/2" x 1"] that also uses 2 AA batteries and can power the same SONY speakers. Doesn't get much smaller than that! The radio receiver lives in the right corner of my "special" lower hatch board what has the rack for my binoculars; and holders for two drinks. Works great: easy to step over and into the cabin; and keeps other necessary items handy, such as the GPS receiver. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 03 Sep 2001 09:39:21 -0400 Hi Bill, I think that the only thing you can harm is the water pump impeller for the water cooled exhaust if you operate it out of the water. The impeller gets no lubrication. My guess is that they spray water into the exhaust to cut down the exhaust noise. Water cooled engines do that anyway, since the cylinder cooling water goes into the exhaust expansion chamber before exiting under water. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Riker" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 03 Sep 2001 20:23:52 -0400 Thanks, Connie I knew you and Scott would have the answers! Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Conbert H Benneck Sent: September 03, 2001 9:39 AM Hi Bill, I think that the only thing you can harm is the water pump impeller for the water cooled exhaust if you operate it out of the water. The impeller gets no lubrication. My guess is that they spray water into the exhaust to cut down the exhaust noise. Water cooled engines do that anyway, since the cylinder cooling water goes into the exhaust expansion chamber before exiting under water. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 03 Sep 2001 22:05:18 EDT In a message dated 9/3/01 5:00:35 AM, wriker@mindspring.com writes: >The manual doesn't mention the impeller as a user-servicable part. Have >you replaced yours? Is it easily accessible? > >Thanks, > >Bill Riker Hi Bill, I have not had to do mine. I did buy the official 'Shop Manual' when I bought the motor. The dealer (who also does the service himself) told me it was no big deal. For the previous generation 2hp/BF20 (this is what I have--one generation removed from the current model), you undo two bolts, one on top/forward of at the anti-cavitation plate, and the other under/aft (the cavitation plate is the horizontal plate just above the prop). The lower end apparently drops down to reveal a cover plate that, when removed, affords you access to the impeller cover. It looks like if all you need to do is replace the impeller, you can do so without special tools. If you need to replace the water seal under the impeller (looks like it keeps water out of the lower gear case) you need a special tool. All of this is subject to my interpretation of the less than stellar directions in the manual. I figure it will either be incredibly easy or utterly impossible depending on the amount of peril I am in when it fails. At any rate, it should probably be done with the motor lying in the cockpit sole, and not hanging off the transom. It looks as if there may be some bits that could find their way into the hungry ocean. I would encourage you to get a copy of the shop manual if you are going to attempt this or other repairs/maintenance yourself. The owners manual is pretty skimpy on the technical stuff. The good news is that I have never heard of any of these failing, save those that have been run dry. Oh yeah, with respect to the reason for the water cooled exhaust, here is what the shop manual says: "Exhaust is discharged under water for quiet operation. Cooling water is pumped through the extension case to stabilize the operating temperature of the exhaust system and is discharged with the exhaust gas." In other words, well, it is a water cooled exhaust (don't you just love it when a technical manual tells you what you already know in as many words as possible?) If you have one of the newer models, I would be curious to know if any of this has changed. Cheers, Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 03 Sep 2001 22:11:13 EDT In a message dated 9/3/01 7:05:56 PM, Wilsometer@aol.com writes: >For the previous generation 2hp/BF20 (this is what I >have--one generation removed from the current model) Correction, I actually have a BF2A, which is covered by the BF20 manual + BF2A supplement manual. Phew!! Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 03 Sep 2001 21:13:34 -0500 > All of this is subject to my > interpretation of the less than stellar directions in the manual I was wondering about that manual while cleaning silt out of the carburetor after Mr. Honda went for a swim in Oxford. I was fantasizing something for the instructions like: "Is necessary for totally joyful operation of the motor water free to bring. Partial submersion is under natural law the best! In case of urgent need, removal of particulated earth in water mixture can be thoroughly accomplished with success and screwdriver if authorized Honda dealer is distant in place or times." Giles ("It is are not raining in Tokyo also" -- Tony Hancock, "The Radio Ham") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Montgomery" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 03 Sep 2001 16:23:58 +0100 Are you talking about the studs being stripped, or the barrel? Note that some turnbuckles have the right-hand thread on top, others on the bottom. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 1:52 PM > I just noticed the turnbuckle on my forestay needs to be replaced (half > the threads on one end are completly stripped!). > > About all I have to work with are the West Marine and Defender catalogs. > Is one brand or style better than the others, or does it not matter? > > Howard > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Montgomery" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 Date: 03 Sep 2001 16:41:30 +0100 Oh yeh, duh. I knew that. Thanks for the links, tho. They'll help. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 8:00 AM > Jerry, > The only problem with that is the fact that Sea Pearls are equipped with > free standing, rotating masts. The sail is furled/reefed around the mast. > You might try the Trailer Sailor forum. It has a pretty big audience. There > is also a Beach Cat list out there and alot of those guys are rebuilding > older cats of all types. The folks on the Victoria 18 site might be > interested as well as the Shallow Water Sailors. The links are below. Most > of these sites have additional links to more sailing sites as well. > Smitty > > http://www.trailersailor.com/index2.html > > http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/4900/index.html > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beachcats > > http://www.trailersailor.com/sws/index.html > > US-842 > Sail Hard or > Stay on the Beach > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Montgomery" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:25 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > Hi Smitty- Would you do me a favor and mention on the Sea Pearl list that I > am doing sailboat rigging, and include my email address? > > I do wire rigging for Montgomery owners and others on occasion, but I'm > planning on expanding this business this winter. > > Thanks. > > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Smitty" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:35 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > I am also a watcher/lurker on the Sea Pearl sail boat list and they just > had > > quite a discussion about outboards. Seems that the Honda 2 is quite > popular > > with them as well, but the little Suzuki and Tohatsu engines seem to be > the > > favorites of some. Seems they run forever and are light and powerful. The > > Sea Pearl is an open 21' boat that weighs about 600#, not that different > > from the M-15 weight wise. If I remember right, the Suzuki can use an > > external fuel tank, if you plan on motoring more than usual. > > Smitty > > US-842 > > Sail Hard or > > Stay on the Beach > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe Kidd" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:31 PM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > Honda, Honda, Honda! > > > > I have a 2hp standard shaft Honda with centrifugal clutch for my M15. > > Love it! Ditto to what the previous respondents told you. > > > > Joe Kidd M15 #207 "Poco A Poco" > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 04 Sep 2001 00:59:14 EDT In a message dated 9/3/01 7:37:37 AM, chbenneck@juno.com writes: >Hi Scott, > >Your specifications for the ideal O/B need a bit more refinement. > >5 HP, 20 lb, hydrogen fuel cell powered O/B that doubles as a water maker >is a big step in the right direction, but it should also be able to play >Mozart or Vivaldi through appropriate hi-fi speakers while under sail or >power. Albinoni and Correlli too!! If it ain't baroque, don't fix it!! >Just solved the hi-fi music problem on LEPPO with a SONY CD player, and >two small SONY speakers. The CD player is the size of a griddlecake; >runs for 25 hours on two AA batteries, and since it is equipped with a >car conversion kit, and a 110 volt transformer, it can also be used at >home to feed my hi-fi system; or as a single CD player in the car. >Maximum goodness: three uses for one boat item! Wow! Will the Sony power the little speakers without shore power? For 25 hours on batteries alone? Now all you need is a little solar panel, and you will never have to go ashore!! Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 04 Sep 2001 01:10:27 EDT In a message dated 9/3/01 7:16:14 PM, giles.morris@unisys.com writes: >> All of this is subject to my > >> interpretation of the less than stellar directions in the manual > > > >I was wondering about that manual while cleaning silt out of the carburetor > >after Mr. Honda went for a swim in Oxford. I was fantasizing something >for > >the instructions like: > >"Is necessary for totally joyful operation of the motor water free to bring. > >Partial submersion is under natural law the best! In case of urgent need, > >removal of particulated earth in water mixture can be thoroughly > >accomplished with success and screwdriver if authorized Honda dealer is > >distant in place or times." > > > >Giles > >("It is are not raining in Tokyo also" -- Tony Hancock, "The Radio Ham") Now that is funny :) Make carful that you do not forget to make more repeatedly!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Smitty" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 Date: 04 Sep 2001 00:44:22 -0500 No problem. I'll keep you in mind should anyone be in need of rigging work. I am still debating the Sea Pearl vs. the M-15. They are certainly capable boats but each has it's advantages. Sure would be nice if one could sail each for a season then pick the vessel that best suited one's particular preferences. Smitty US-842 Sail Hard or Stay on the Beach ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 10:41 AM Oh yeh, duh. I knew that. Thanks for the links, tho. They'll help. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 8:00 AM > Jerry, > The only problem with that is the fact that Sea Pearls are equipped with > free standing, rotating masts. The sail is furled/reefed around the mast. > You might try the Trailer Sailor forum. It has a pretty big audience. There > is also a Beach Cat list out there and alot of those guys are rebuilding > older cats of all types. The folks on the Victoria 18 site might be > interested as well as the Shallow Water Sailors. The links are below. Most > of these sites have additional links to more sailing sites as well. > Smitty > > http://www.trailersailor.com/index2.html > > http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/4900/index.html > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beachcats > > http://www.trailersailor.com/sws/index.html > > US-842 > Sail Hard or > Stay on the Beach > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Montgomery" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:25 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > Hi Smitty- Would you do me a favor and mention on the Sea Pearl list that I > am doing sailboat rigging, and include my email address? > > I do wire rigging for Montgomery owners and others on occasion, but I'm > planning on expanding this business this winter. > > Thanks. > > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Smitty" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:35 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > I am also a watcher/lurker on the Sea Pearl sail boat list and they just > had > > quite a discussion about outboards. Seems that the Honda 2 is quite > popular > > with them as well, but the little Suzuki and Tohatsu engines seem to be > the > > favorites of some. Seems they run forever and are light and powerful. The > > Sea Pearl is an open 21' boat that weighs about 600#, not that different > > from the M-15 weight wise. If I remember right, the Suzuki can use an > > external fuel tank, if you plan on motoring more than usual. > > Smitty > > US-842 > > Sail Hard or > > Stay on the Beach > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe Kidd" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:31 PM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > Honda, Honda, Honda! > > > > I have a 2hp standard shaft Honda with centrifugal clutch for my M15. > > Love it! Ditto to what the previous respondents told you. > > > > Joe Kidd M15 #207 "Poco A Poco" > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 04 Sep 2001 09:29:08 -0500 About half the threads on the bottom stud portion are gone. Shucked off like an ear of corn. And where the threads resume, you can no longer screw it into the barrel portion, so I suspect the threads in the barrel are damaged too. I routinely carry spar studs..right and left hand threads. But this particular turbuckle has an open body AND fold down handle on it for easy adjustment, and stop nuts inside the open body. It appears the nut on the inside of the body was jambed or rivoted on somehow, cause I can't back it off with normal handtools. The nut on the end is all that is holding the forestay up. I'm still having nightmares about what would have happened had that let go in a good puff! Howard Jerry Montgomery wrote: > Are you talking about the studs being stripped, or the barrel? Note that > some turnbuckles have the right-hand thread on top, others on the bottom. > > Jerry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Smith, William" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 04 Sep 2001 10:40:16 -0400 Howard, I recommend replacing the entire turnbuckle. I had the forestay break on my 16' AMF Sunbird last year and ended up with the entire mast, boom and sails in my arms with a 20 knot wind. I was surprised that the mast came down so slowly, I guess because the sail filled with air on the way down. I got a turnbuckle complete with toggles and locking springs from West Marine for about $20. The original on my boat did not have toggles and I think the break was due to fatigue from bending the wire back and forth. Bill Smith -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:29 AM About half the threads on the bottom stud portion are gone. Shucked off like an ear of corn. And where the threads resume, you can no longer screw it into the barrel portion, so I suspect the threads in the barrel are damaged too. I routinely carry spar studs..right and left hand threads. But this particular turbuckle has an open body AND fold down handle on it for easy adjustment, and stop nuts inside the open body. It appears the nut on the inside of the body was jambed or rivoted on somehow, cause I can't back it off with normal handtools. The nut on the end is all that is holding the forestay up. I'm still having nightmares about what would have happened had that let go in a good puff! Howard Jerry Montgomery wrote: > Are you talking about the studs being stripped, or the barrel? Note that > some turnbuckles have the right-hand thread on top, others on the bottom. > > Jerry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Montgomery" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 Date: 04 Sep 2001 09:13:59 +0100 Simple- just buy one of each! ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 6:44 AM > No problem. I'll keep you in mind should anyone be in need of rigging work. > I am still debating the Sea Pearl vs. the M-15. They are certainly capable > boats but each has it's advantages. Sure would be nice if one could sail > each for a season then pick the vessel that best suited one's particular > preferences. > Smitty > US-842 > Sail Hard or > Stay on the Beach > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Montgomery" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > Oh yeh, duh. I knew that. Thanks for the links, tho. They'll help. > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Smitty" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 8:00 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > Jerry, > > The only problem with that is the fact that Sea Pearls are equipped with > > free standing, rotating masts. The sail is furled/reefed around the mast. > > You might try the Trailer Sailor forum. It has a pretty big audience. > There > > is also a Beach Cat list out there and alot of those guys are rebuilding > > older cats of all types. The folks on the Victoria 18 site might be > > interested as well as the Shallow Water Sailors. The links are below. Most > > of these sites have additional links to more sailing sites as well. > > Smitty > > > > http://www.trailersailor.com/index2.html > > > > http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/4900/index.html > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beachcats > > > > http://www.trailersailor.com/sws/index.html > > > > US-842 > > Sail Hard or > > Stay on the Beach > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Montgomery" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:25 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > Hi Smitty- Would you do me a favor and mention on the Sea Pearl list that > I > > am doing sailboat rigging, and include my email address? > > > > I do wire rigging for Montgomery owners and others on occasion, but I'm > > planning on expanding this business this winter. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Smitty" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:35 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > > I am also a watcher/lurker on the Sea Pearl sail boat list and they just > > had > > > quite a discussion about outboards. Seems that the Honda 2 is quite > > popular > > > with them as well, but the little Suzuki and Tohatsu engines seem to be > > the > > > favorites of some. Seems they run forever and are light and powerful. > The > > > Sea Pearl is an open 21' boat that weighs about 600#, not that different > > > from the M-15 weight wise. If I remember right, the Suzuki can use an > > > external fuel tank, if you plan on motoring more than usual. > > > Smitty > > > US-842 > > > Sail Hard or > > > Stay on the Beach > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Joe Kidd" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:31 PM > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > > > > Honda, Honda, Honda! > > > > > > I have a 2hp standard shaft Honda with centrifugal clutch for my > M15. > > > Love it! Ditto to what the previous respondents told you. > > > > > > Joe Kidd M15 #207 "Poco A Poco" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 04 Sep 2001 12:35:49 -0400 Scott, The speakers are SONY Model SRS-P3, and are for the WALKMAN (Mini Stereo Speaker System). They were terribly expensive, and cost $5.99! I just couldn't keep myself from paying this ridiculous price! I have found that on a boat the size of the Montgomery 15, you don't need the 5,000 watt amplifier outputs that some of the hi-fi fans crave. Chest crushing bass response is also not my cup of tea, since I don't want to inundate a quiet anchorage with noise. Tweeters, mid-range speakers and cabin sized bass speakers really are overkill on the M15. My system provides all I need in the way of soothing music while gurgling peacefully towards my distant destination. .....and my collection also includes Albinoni, Corelli plus a few of the lesser known composers such as Hayden, Haendel, Telemann, and Scott Joplin. Have a good summer and lots of good sailing, Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15, Thanks Yawl, Still Considering. Date: 04 Sep 2001 13:14:52 EDT --part1_b9.131e1920.28c6660c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/04/2001 5:02:21 PM !!!First Boot!!!, chbenneck@juno.com writes: > You'd be amazed at how many dolphins come over to take a look when the hull is vibrating. --part1_b9.131e1920.28c6660c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/04/2001 5:02:21 PM !!!First Boot!!!, chbenneck@juno.com
writes:


Chest crushing bass response


You'd be amazed at how many dolphins come over to take a look when the hull
is vibrating. --part1_b9.131e1920.28c6660c_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Smitty" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 Date: 04 Sep 2001 03:31:23 -0500 Of course!! Why didn't I think of that?!?! Oh, I know. I still haven't won the lottery............then too, my friend tells me I have to buy a ticket to win. ;-) Smitty US-842 Sail Hard or Stay on the Beach ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 3:13 AM Simple- just buy one of each! ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 6:44 AM > No problem. I'll keep you in mind should anyone be in need of rigging work. > I am still debating the Sea Pearl vs. the M-15. They are certainly capable > boats but each has it's advantages. Sure would be nice if one could sail > each for a season then pick the vessel that best suited one's particular > preferences. > Smitty > US-842 > Sail Hard or > Stay on the Beach > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Montgomery" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > Oh yeh, duh. I knew that. Thanks for the links, tho. They'll help. > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Smitty" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 8:00 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > Jerry, > > The only problem with that is the fact that Sea Pearls are equipped with > > free standing, rotating masts. The sail is furled/reefed around the mast. > > You might try the Trailer Sailor forum. It has a pretty big audience. > There > > is also a Beach Cat list out there and alot of those guys are rebuilding > > older cats of all types. The folks on the Victoria 18 site might be > > interested as well as the Shallow Water Sailors. The links are below. Most > > of these sites have additional links to more sailing sites as well. > > Smitty > > > > http://www.trailersailor.com/index2.html > > > > http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/4900/index.html > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beachcats > > > > http://www.trailersailor.com/sws/index.html > > > > US-842 > > Sail Hard or > > Stay on the Beach > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry Montgomery" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:25 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > Hi Smitty- Would you do me a favor and mention on the Sea Pearl list that > I > > am doing sailboat rigging, and include my email address? > > > > I do wire rigging for Montgomery owners and others on occasion, but I'm > > planning on expanding this business this winter. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Smitty" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:35 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > > I am also a watcher/lurker on the Sea Pearl sail boat list and they just > > had > > > quite a discussion about outboards. Seems that the Honda 2 is quite > > popular > > > with them as well, but the little Suzuki and Tohatsu engines seem to be > > the > > > favorites of some. Seems they run forever and are light and powerful. > The > > > Sea Pearl is an open 21' boat that weighs about 600#, not that different > > > from the M-15 weight wise. If I remember right, the Suzuki can use an > > > external fuel tank, if you plan on motoring more than usual. > > > Smitty > > > US-842 > > > Sail Hard or > > > Stay on the Beach > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Joe Kidd" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:31 PM > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Power for our "new" M-15 > > > > > > > > > Honda, Honda, Honda! > > > > > > I have a 2hp standard shaft Honda with centrifugal clutch for my > M15. > > > Love it! Ditto to what the previous respondents told you. > > > > > > Joe Kidd M15 #207 "Poco A Poco" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 04 Sep 2001 20:31:41 -0500 The plot thickens: Aside from open and closed turnbuckles, the choices also include all stainless, and bronze or chromed bronze bodies and stainless ends. I thought that mixing dissimilar metals caused corrosion? What's up with this.....and which is stronger? Howard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Riker" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 04 Sep 2001 21:59:22 -0400 >If you have one of the newer models, I would be curious to know if any of >his has changed. >Cheers, >Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' My manual, for the BF2D, warns in two places that running the outboard motor without sufficient water will overheat the engine. It states that the anticavitation plate should be about 5.9" below the surface of the water. In another place, it warns the operator to "be sure tha anticavitation plate remains underwater at all times . . . Loading to far forward will raise the motor out of the water, reducing engine cooling." Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 04 Sep 2001 23:24:02 EDT --part1_fc.b9ed5ea.28c6f4d2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/05/2001 1:26:16 AM !!!First Boot!!!, haudsley@tranquility.net writes: > . I thought that mixing > Metals that are very dissimilar do cause corrosion. In the case of stainless screws in an aluminum mast or boom, it's bad. All dissimilar metal contact points should have a proper material in between. I used "never sieze". Many years after threading screws in my boom, I just unscrewed them. No problem. Sandy --part1_fc.b9ed5ea.28c6f4d2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/05/2001 1:26:16 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
haudsley@tranquility.net writes:


. I thought that mixing
dissimilar metals caused corrosion?


Metals that are very dissimilar do cause corrosion. In the case of stainless
screws in an aluminum mast or boom, it's bad. All dissimilar metal contact
points should have a proper material in between. I used "never sieze". Many
years after threading screws in my boom, I just unscrewed them. No problem.

Sandy --part1_fc.b9ed5ea.28c6f4d2_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Fleming Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tod's Trip Date: 05 Sep 2001 01:19:32 -0700 Where's this lake, Howard? I could swear from the description below, that it's Lake Pleasant, just north of Phoenix, Arizona. I'd say, Howard, that you have written the archetypal description of lake sailing. Regards, John Fleming M-17 #357: "Star Cross'd" Howard A wrote: > > I just got back from the annual Labor Day raft up on our local lake. > > It was mostly dead downwind in light air of maybe 5 to 8 knots, when it > was blowing at all. Powerboats swarming like a beehive.... their wakes > shaking the wind from the sails. Average speed for the first 2 hours was > 0 to 1 knot. With about 1.5 miles to go, and getting frustrated, I > popped open a cold one. About half way through that, I noticed a gentle > breeze was blowing. When I set down the empty, a glance at the GPS > showed I was doing 3 knots, running wing and wing and more breeze > coming. I shot through a narrow pass doing 4.5 knots and met 5 > powerboats in the middle of it that looked like they were having a race. > They passed me on both sides with no more than 30 feet between us. But > by then, I was in a much better mood and just waved...no longer > contemplating the lead required to hit a moving target at 100 yards with > a flare gun. > > The return trip was weird too. Light and variable winds dead on the > nose...but with sudden gusts you could go from sails hanging dead limp > to a gust that would heel the boat 20 degrees and snap you up to 4 knots > like a tow rope on a water skier...then shifting 40 degrees to head you > off to a hove to position...then back to dead calm. At one point, I > sailed close hauled on a 70 degree heading change without ever touching > the sails. > > But fall is coming. The powerboats will be gone...the wind steady from > the southwest and the good times will roll! > > Howard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kerrys Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tod's Trip Date: 05 Sep 2001 07:13:28 -0700 Yes it does. The narrow pass sound like the Agua Fria arm, doesn't it? Comments, Gary? Kerry John Fleming wrote: > Where's this lake, Howard? I could swear from the description below, > that it's Lake Pleasant, just north of Phoenix, Arizona. > > I'd say, Howard, that you have written the archetypal description of > lake sailing. > > Regards, > John Fleming > M-17 #357: "Star Cross'd" > > Howard A wrote: > > > > I just got back from the annual Labor Day raft up on our local lake. > > > > It was mostly dead downwind in light air of maybe 5 to 8 knots, when it > > was blowing at all. Powerboats swarming like a beehive.... their wakes > > shaking the wind from the sails. Average speed for the first 2 hours was > > 0 to 1 knot. With about 1.5 miles to go, and getting frustrated, I > > popped open a cold one. About half way through that, I noticed a gentle > > breeze was blowing. When I set down the empty, a glance at the GPS > > showed I was doing 3 knots, running wing and wing and more breeze > > coming. I shot through a narrow pass doing 4.5 knots and met 5 > > powerboats in the middle of it that looked like they were having a race. > > They passed me on both sides with no more than 30 feet between us. But > > by then, I was in a much better mood and just waved...no longer > > contemplating the lead required to hit a moving target at 100 yards with > > a flare gun. > > > > The return trip was weird too. Light and variable winds dead on the > > nose...but with sudden gusts you could go from sails hanging dead limp > > to a gust that would heel the boat 20 degrees and snap you up to 4 knots > > like a tow rope on a water skier...then shifting 40 degrees to head you > > off to a hove to position...then back to dead calm. At one point, I > > sailed close hauled on a 70 degree heading change without ever touching > > the sails. > > > > But fall is coming. The powerboats will be gone...the wind steady from > > the southwest and the good times will roll! > > > > Howard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: RE: M_Boats: Power Choice for M15 Date: 05 Sep 2001 14:19:50 -0700 (PDT) I have a BF2D model honda I bought in June. The dealer told me that it no longer has a water cooled exhaust. They have eliminated the impeller. I assume the manuals say what they do because of a lack of back pressure when the exhaust is out of the water. Thanks Doug "Seas the Day" --- Bill Riker wrote: > > >If you have one of the newer models, I would be > curious to know if any of > >his has changed. > > >Cheers, > >Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' > > My manual, for the BF2D, warns in two places that > running the outboard motor > without sufficient water will overheat the engine. > It states that the > anticavitation plate should be about 5.9" below the > surface of the water. > In another place, it warns the operator to "be sure > tha anticavitation plate > remains underwater at all times . . . Loading to > far forward will raise > the motor out of the water, reducing engine > cooling." > > Bill Riker > M-15 #184 > Storm Petrel > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GILASAILR@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 05 Sep 2001 19:17:27 EDT Howard, Bronze bodies are used on turnbuckles so as to prevent galling of the stainless steel in an all stainless turnbuckle. All bronze does not gall but is certainly not as strong. A turnbuckle is/should be - regularly inspected and serviced so as to be replaced in a timely manner. In the size range we are discussing and using for Montgomery boats a bronze body with stainless steel screws-toggles is a good choice. Good Sailing Gary M-17 316A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 05 Sep 2001 18:39:15 -0500 Good! Thats what I ordered, with eye jaw toggles for each one. Howard GILASAILR@aol.com wrote: > Howard, > Bronze bodies are used on turnbuckles so as to prevent galling of the > stainless steel in an all stainless turnbuckle. All bronze does not gall but > is certainly not as strong. A turnbuckle is/should be - regularly inspected > and serviced so as to be replaced in a timely manner. > In the size range we are discussing and using for Montgomery boats a bronze > body with stainless steel screws-toggles is a good choice. > Good Sailing > Gary > M-17 316A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: steve Subject: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 06 Sep 2001 15:59:15 -0700 (PDT) I have the long shaft model that I got in August. (The only options now seems to be short or long. I asked for the clutch and twist throttle and the dealer said they come with it.) The dealer commissioned it before two of my co-workers out of the water. (The dealer is 90 miles away near one of our facilities and my coworkers are engineers and car nuts.) Doug seems to offer the only reasonable explanation for the dealer's actions. Thank you. We finally made it out on the water Sunday afternoon, after spending the last three weekends digging holes in my lawn (where do I subscribe to a septic system how-to mailing list?). I throttled the Honda back to idle and it died. It cranked right up. I think, maybe it just needs to warm up. I circled around while the wife came back from the parking lot, and it kept dying at idle. It took about 30 minutes before it would idle. There was no wind. My wife suggested I raise the sails so I left the motor off for a few minutes. We then played motor boat and it resumed the death at idle mode. Started right back up every time. Any suggestions? Does the throttle cable stretch? If so, should I wait for it to stretch some more before having it adjusted? Is it a carb adjustment? Do I need more break in? Any one have similar experience? I kept the motor in the suggested storage position to prevent oil from fouling the plug. The gas was fresh. Has anyone replaced the plug in the carb with a drain cock and hose fitting to bleed the gas back into a can? How much is a shop manual? Any one want to chip in and share one? The top of the motor hits the transom. Swiveling does not provide clearance. I am thinking of fabricating a new motor mount so the motor is slightly higher and further back. I have also considered grinding a little off the leg of the catch that holds the motor out of the water. Has anyone done this? How much is a replacement catch? Even having to restart the motor was an improvement from the old two stroke. I found the exhaust tone to be pleasant as well. A hint of power to it. Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY stever@mail.saabnet.com --- Doug Kelch > wrote: >I have a BF2D model honda I bought in June. The >dealer told me that it no longer has a water cooled >exhaust. They have eliminated the impeller. >I assume the manuals say what they do because of a >lack of back pressure when the exhaust is out of the >water. > >Thanks > >Doug >"Seas the Day" _____________________________________________________________ Get your FREE saabnet.com email address - http://webmail.saabnet.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 06 Sep 2001 16:18:26 -0700 Steve, I don't know what to tell you about the Honda running/dying (mostly dying it sounds like), but I'll tell you how I get mine to lock in the tilted-up position. I presume we have the same stock mount. Mine wouldn't lock up either until I broke the code. Which is this: turn the motor backwards and tilt the shaft up. It lock backwards. Then rotate the powerhead to the sideways position for best clearance. Be sure to rotate it so the head in in the factory-approved position, which I think is clockwise if I remember correctly. If the motor doesn't lock when tilted up backwards, maybe you need to shift the motor to one side of the fixed mount or the other to buy a little more space. Keep at it. It works. Well, it works for me, and unless they changed the powerhead cover style, it ought to work for you too. T Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15/345 -- Chukar Sandpoint, Idaho -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 3:59 PM I have the long shaft model that I got in August. (The only options now seems to be short or long. I asked for the clutch and twist throttle and the dealer said they come with it.) The dealer commissioned it before two of my co-workers out of the water. (The dealer is 90 miles away near one of our facilities and my coworkers are engineers and car nuts.) Doug seems to offer the only reasonable explanation for the dealer's actions. Thank you. We finally made it out on the water Sunday afternoon, after spending the last three weekends digging holes in my lawn (where do I subscribe to a septic system how-to mailing list?). I throttled the Honda back to idle and it died. It cranked right up. I think, maybe it just needs to warm up. I circled around while the wife came back from the parking lot, and it kept dying at idle. It took about 30 minutes before it would idle. There was no wind. My wife suggested I raise the sails so I left the motor off for a few minutes. We then played motor boat and it resumed the death at idle mode. Started right back up every time. Any suggestions? Does the throttle cable stretch? If so, should I wait for it to stretch some more before having it adjusted? Is it a carb adjustment? Do I need more break in? Any one have similar experience? I kept the motor in the suggested storage position to prevent oil from fouling the plug. The gas was fresh. Has anyone replaced the plug in the carb with a drain cock and hose fitting to bleed the gas back into a can? How much is a shop manual? Any one want to chip in and share one? The top of the motor hits the transom. Swiveling does not provide clearance. I am thinking of fabricating a new motor mount so the motor is slightly higher and further back. I have also considered grinding a little off the leg of the catch that holds the motor out of the water. Has anyone done this? How much is a replacement catch? Even having to restart the motor was an improvement from the old two stroke. I found the exhaust tone to be pleasant as well. A hint of power to it. Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY stever@mail.saabnet.com --- Doug Kelch > wrote: >I have a BF2D model honda I bought in June. The >dealer told me that it no longer has a water cooled >exhaust. They have eliminated the impeller. >I assume the manuals say what they do because of a >lack of back pressure when the exhaust is out of the >water. > >Thanks > >Doug >"Seas the Day" _____________________________________________________________ Get your FREE saabnet.com email address - http://webmail.saabnet.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 06 Sep 2001 18:27:02 -0500 > I throttled the Honda back to idle and it died It isn't the throttle cable stretching because it has a separate idle. Now... I doubt if this is the problem, and I certainly wouldn't fix it myself unless the dealer was 90 miles away (or the problem was caused by me), but... When I cleaned Mr. Honda out after he went for a swim I had the dying-at-idle problem. The solution lay inside the carb. I had cleaned out the body and the main jet with aerosol carb cleaner (foul stuff!) but my problem was caused by failing to clean the idle tube that is held in by the main jet (tap the carb body on the bench and out it falls). Sure enough, when I took it out, the TINY holes in it were bunged up with silt. Clean it out, and Bingo! Mr. Honda was happy again. Giles Morris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Olson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 06 Sep 2001 17:28:26 -0700 Hi Steve, My Honda 2 hp which I purchased about a year ago has never had the problem you describe so I won't be much help. By the way, I assume you use the choke to get it started. Anyway, I get rid of the gas in my carburetor by closing the fuel valve and then let the motor run until it stops. Usually only takes a couple of minutes. Let us know how you finally resolve the problem. Don Olson M15 Phoenix, Az ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Off-topic....e-mail addresses Date: 06 Sep 2001 21:35:49 EDT --part1_110.4ec5b1f.28c97e75_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/06/2001 11:57:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!, htmills@bright.net writes: > but does it make a > difference with AOL addresses? > > No it doesn't. AOL screen names work in upper or lower case. --part1_110.4ec5b1f.28c97e75_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/06/2001 11:57:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
htmills@bright.net writes:


but does it make a
difference with AOL addresses?



No it doesn't. AOL screen names work in upper or lower case. --part1_110.4ec5b1f.28c97e75_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Riker" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 06 Sep 2001 21:19:29 -0400 Steve, My Honda needed an idle adjustment, but not until after two seasons. It was right on the edge of dying at min throttle - sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn't. I usually run the engine until it dies, about 3 minutes. At times I have drained the carb. It only holds a couple of tablespoons; not enough to bother directing back into the tank IMHO. I haven't tried the twist 'n lock trick that Tom Smith mentions, but I'll bet it won't work on our older boats. The newer ones have a slightly longer mount. I'm looking forward to giving it a try, though. My method is to lift and rotate the motor 90 deg and bungee it in place. It does drag a bit on starboard tack. Tip: carry a spare spark plug. Mine died during the Chesapeake Rendezvous. A marina in Oxford cleaned it, and it has worked since. But I won't be without a spare again. Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lacey Hartje" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha vs. Honda, weight, etc. Date: 07 Sep 2001 02:09:41 unsubscribe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Montgomery" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 06 Sep 2001 15:02:22 +0100 Ssounds to me that the turnbuckle and studs have galled, which is why many turnbuckles are stainless/bronze. Stainess on stainless galls pretty badly but stainless/bronze gets smoother and smoother. Many bronze alloys are actually strongwer than stainless, which is why I eventually went to an aluminum bronze rudder rod. Too many complaints about the stainless rods galling on the rudder gudgeons. Type 316 stainless is better, but stainless has a rough surface (microscopically) and also work-hardens badly so two stainess surfaces rubbing on each other under a hi load just get rougher and rougher. I'd replace the whole thing. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 3:29 PM > About half the threads on the bottom stud portion are gone. Shucked off like > an ear of corn. And where the threads resume, you can no longer screw it into > the barrel portion, so I suspect the threads in the barrel are damaged too. I > routinely carry spar studs..right and left hand threads. But this particular > turbuckle has an open body AND fold down handle on it for easy adjustment, > and stop nuts inside the open body. It appears the nut on the inside of the > body was jambed or rivoted on somehow, cause I can't back it off with normal > handtools. The nut on the end is all that is holding the forestay up. I'm > still having nightmares about what would have happened had that let go in a > good puff! > > Howard > > Jerry Montgomery wrote: > > > Are you talking about the studs being stripped, or the barrel? Note that > > some turnbuckles have the right-hand thread on top, others on the bottom. > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 07 Sep 2001 01:40:11 EDT In a message dated 9/6/01 3:59:53 PM, stever@mail.saabnet.com writes: >Doug seems to offer the only reasonable explanation for the dealer's actions. Either that, or the dealer is a schmuck. >Any suggestions? Does the throttle cable stretch? If so, should I wait >for it to stretch some more before having it adjusted? Is it a carb adjustment? > Do I need more break in? Any one have similar experience? I kept the >motor in the suggested storage position to prevent oil from fouling the >plug. The gas was fresh. I don't think throttle cable stretch is your problem. If there is a problem with the position of the throttle, it probably has more to do with it not being set up/adjusted properly. I would bet you are dealing with either a carb adjustment or perhaps even fuel bowl contamination instead (I'd put my money on the carb adjustment). Here is my theory: the guy who decided to set this thing up out of the water probably pulled the rope and sent you on your way. You stick it in the water, and all of the sudden it does not want to run at idle. Pourquoi pas? you might ask. Well, let's see, what is different about the motor being in the water? Presumably the fuel, spark, and compression of the motor does not change, non? What's left? Hmmm. Lets see. What are the four strokes of the four-stroke? We have the intake (we have eliminated that), we have compression (no, not that either), we have the power stroke (well, as long as we have spark, that can't be it--and we have spark because it runs well at higher RPM's, n'est pas?), and we have exhaust. Exhaust--could that be it? C'est possible because the back pressure is likely different when the motor is in the water then when it is out (exhaust exits under water). What has back pressure got to do with anything? Maybe nothing, maybe a lot--it depends on valve overlap, and a few other esoteric concepts, but hey, it is a theory. Or then, maybe a chunk of tiny junk found its way into the float bowl and ultimately into the float valve (metering valve), and is keeping it stuck slightly open. This could result in too rich a mixture at idle, but would tend to smooth out/equalize at higher rpms when the float valve would be opening anyway. I favor this theory over a plugged main nozzle (metering rod) or main jet, as either of these would tend to produce better idle than high rpm operation. I can't recall for sure, but I think that some of the newer models might not have an externally adjustable pilot screw (mixture adjustment). I think that this may have been one of the changes that it made it 2006 EPA compliant. If you do have one, however, here is a test that you might try (excerpted directly from the Honda shop manual for the BF2A): "1) Start the engine and allow it to warm up to normal operating temperature. 2) With the engine idling (ha!) turn the pilot screw in or out to the setting that produces the highest idle rpm. The correct setting will usually be obtained at approximately the following number turns out from the fully closed (tightly sealed) position: Pilot Screw opening: 2 turns 3) After the pilot screw is correctly adjusted, attach a tachometer to the engine and turn the throttle stop screw to obtain the standard idle speed. Standard Idle speed: 1400+/- rpm" Again, this is from a service manual at least one generation removed from your motor, so the calibrations (turns, rpm) may be different, but the principle should be the same. I really do think that the bloody dealer should make it right--especially if adjustments are not possible, but hey, maybe you are smarter than he is! >Has anyone replaced the plug in the carb with a drain cock and hose fitting >to bleed the gas back into a can? Not me. >How much is a shop manual? Any one want to chip in and share one? I paid $19.80, but that was some time ago (earlier model). >The top of the motor hits the transom. Swiveling does not provide clearance. > I am thinking of fabricating a new motor mount so the motor is slightly >higher and further back. I have also considered grinding a little off >the leg of the catch that holds the motor out of the water. Has anyone >done this? How much is a replacement catch? Mine did this too, but I was able to swivel 90 degrees and then tilt up without a problem (newer motor must be different). A friend of mine with an M15 modified the stock bracket by attaching a teak block to the aft surface of the stock motor mount (using stainless carriage bolts, washers, and lock nuts). This block covered the entire aft surface and stuck up about 1-1/2" or so from the top of the factory bracket. This had the effect of moving the motor up and aft slightly. Not only did this solve the tilting problem, but it all but eliminated the long-shaft motor dragging on a starboard tack (even with the block, the long shaft had more 'bite' than the short shaft, and did not pop out of the water when he went forward, or in big swells). I have made a nice teak block for my M15, but have not gotten around to mounting it yet. Well, that's my $.04 cents worth (corrected for inflation). I'd love to hear what you find. Scott Grometer, M15#478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 07 Sep 2001 03:06:43 -0500 > I don't think throttle cable stretch is your problem The throttle cable is a pretty heavy thing. You could pick the motor up with it and it wouldn't stretch. Moreover, even if it is removed, the motor should idle because the control on the carb is meant to go back to the stop. > I would bet you are dealing with either a >carb adjustment or perhaps even fuel bowl contamination instead I'm guessing at fuel bowl contamination. This is because there isn't anything adjustable on the carb. There isn't a mainjet adjuster, and the idle adjustment has a little tab on it so that you can't adjust it (presumably crimped on after it's screwed in). The dealer mechanic who told me to clean out what he called the idling tube said that he wasn't allowed to do anything to the carb adjustment. And if you look at the emissions information sticker inside the cowling, it says something like "Main mixture: Fixed. Idle mixture: Fixed". However... If the idling tube (or whatever) has one (or more) of the tiny holes in it blocked, then you get exactly the symptoms described. And it would be very easy to imagine some small Asian debris in the carb that sat in the bowl while the motor was tested and then got sucked up afterwards. Anyway... If the dealer was nearby I would get him to fix it, but if it meant 180 miles of round trip I would remove the carb (two bolts), remove the float chamber (one nut -- the weird one with the drain screw in it), remove the mainjet thus exposed (with a screwdriver), tap the carb on the bench so that the idle tube falls out, clean that little sucker (literally) out with aerosol carb cleaner (nasty stuff) until I could see all the holes functioning as designed, reassemble, start the motor and... Well, either Viola!, all is well or scratch that theory. It'll only take a few minutes to find out. Giles Morris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 07 Sep 2001 06:53:36 -0500 I've ordered new chromed bronze turnbuckles for the forestay and backstay, with eye jaw toggles for each. The extra benefit of the toggles will be some additional slack in the forestay end to better rake the mast back. The current turnbuckle is all the way out, and mast still does not appear to be raked back enough. I tried to insert a 3" toggle at the forestay, and that created too much slack to take up. The backstay already had a clevis between the turnbuckle and backstay that I somehow had overlooked. Thanks for the info. It really does help when you can ask the "original rigger" for advice. Howard Jerry Montgomery wrote: > I'd replace the whole thing. > > Jerry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Honda Questions/motor up Date: 07 Sep 2001 06:23:42 -0700 Hmm, I wasn't aware that the motor mounts changed. So that might pose a problem for you Steve. I bought an adjustable motor mount to replace the fixed mount, but haven't gotten around to swapping them out (boy, does that sound easier than it is...). Like Bill says, the business end of the motor still drags on starboard tack, but so far that hasn't bothered me enough to make the change. Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15/345 -- Chukar Sandpoint, Idaho -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 6:19 PM Steve, My Honda needed an idle adjustment, but not until after two seasons. It was right on the edge of dying at min throttle - sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn't. I usually run the engine until it dies, about 3 minutes. At times I have drained the carb. It only holds a couple of tablespoons; not enough to bother directing back into the tank IMHO. I haven't tried the twist 'n lock trick that Tom Smith mentions, but I'll bet it won't work on our older boats. The newer ones have a slightly longer mount. I'm looking forward to giving it a try, though. My method is to lift and rotate the motor 90 deg and bungee it in place. It does drag a bit on starboard tack. Tip: carry a spare spark plug. Mine died during the Chesapeake Rendezvous. A marina in Oxford cleaned it, and it has worked since. But I won't be without a spare again. Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Watkins" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 07 Sep 2001 08:42:50 -0500 Scott, I have a 98 model Honda l/s and I ended up putting on an adjustable = s/s bracket. It works great and being able to lift the motor up / and or = out is an advantage. It's not too hard of a modification, you cut a hole = for an inspection port on the inside of the liner, remove the old bracket, = put the new one in it's place. The holes didn't line up so I had to fill = in the old ones. You might check with Bob E. at the factory and see if he = has one available. =20 Hope you get you engine problems straightened out. They are good little = motors when everything is working proper. Randy W. M15#194 >>> Wilsometer@aol.com 09/07/01 12:40AM >>> In a message dated 9/6/01 3:59:53 PM, stever@mail.saabnet.com writes: >Doug seems to offer the only reasonable explanation for the dealer's = actions. Either that, or the dealer is a schmuck. >Any suggestions? Does the throttle cable stretch? If so, should I wait >for it to stretch some more before having it adjusted? Is it a carb=20 adjustment? > Do I need more break in? Any one have similar experience? I kept the >motor in the suggested storage position to prevent oil from fouling the >plug. The gas was fresh. I don't think throttle cable stretch is your problem. If there is a = problem=20 with the position of the throttle, it probably has more to do with it = not=20 being set up/adjusted properly. I would bet you are dealing with either = a=20 carb adjustment or perhaps even fuel bowl contamination instead (I'd put = my=20 money on the carb adjustment). Here is my theory: the guy who decided = to=20 set this thing up out of the water probably pulled the rope and sent you = on=20 your way. You stick it in the water, and all of the sudden it does not = want=20 to run at idle. Pourquoi pas? you might ask. Well, let's see, what = is=20 different about the motor being in the water? Presumably the fuel, = spark,=20 and compression of the motor does not change, non? What's left? Hmmm. = Lets=20 see. What are the four strokes of the four-stroke? We have the intake = (we=20 have eliminated that), we have compression (no, not that either), we have = the=20 power stroke (well, as long as we have spark, that can't be it--and we = have=20 spark because it runs well at higher RPM's, n'est pas?), and we have = exhaust.=20 Exhaust--could that be it? C'est possible because the back pressure = is=20 likely different when the motor is in the water then when it is out = (exhaust=20 exits under water). What has back pressure got to do with anything? = Maybe=20 nothing, maybe a lot--it depends on valve overlap, and a few other = esoteric=20 concepts, but hey, it is a theory. Or then, maybe a chunk of tiny junk = found=20 its way into the float bowl and ultimately into the float valve = (metering=20 valve), and is keeping it stuck slightly open. This could result in too = rich=20 a mixture at idle, but would tend to smooth out/equalize at higher rpms = when=20 the float valve would be opening anyway. I favor this theory over a = plugged=20 main nozzle (metering rod) or main jet, as either of these would tend = to=20 produce better idle than high rpm operation. I can't recall for sure, but I think that some of the newer models might = not=20 have an externally adjustable pilot screw (mixture adjustment). I think = that=20 this may have been one of the changes that it made it 2006 EPA compliant. = If=20 you do have one, however, here is a test that you might try (excerpted=20 directly from the Honda shop manual for the BF2A): "1) Start the engine and allow it to warm up to normal operating = temperature. 2) With the engine idling (ha!) turn the pilot screw in or out to the=20 setting that produces the highest idle rpm. The correct setting will = usually=20 be obtained at approximately the following number turns out from the = fully=20 closed (tightly sealed) position: Pilot Screw opening: 2 turns 3) After the pilot screw is correctly adjusted, attach a tachometer to = the=20 engine and turn the throttle stop screw to obtain the standard idle speed. Standard Idle speed: 1400+/- rpm" Again, this is from a service manual at least one generation removed = from=20 your motor, so the calibrations (turns, rpm) may be different, but the=20 principle should be the same. I really do think that the bloody dealer=20 should make it right--especially if adjustments are not possible, but = hey,=20 maybe you are smarter than he is! >Has anyone replaced the plug in the carb with a drain cock and hose = fitting >to bleed the gas back into a can? Not me. >How much is a shop manual? Any one want to chip in and share one? I paid $19.80, but that was some time ago (earlier model). >The top of the motor hits the transom. Swiveling does not provide = clearance. > I am thinking of fabricating a new motor mount so the motor is slightly >higher and further back. I have also considered grinding a little off >the leg of the catch that holds the motor out of the water. Has anyone >done this? How much is a replacement catch? Mine did this too, but I was able to swivel 90 degrees and then tilt up=20 without a problem (newer motor must be different). A friend of mine with = an=20 M15 modified the stock bracket by attaching a teak block to the aft = surface=20 of the stock motor mount (using stainless carriage bolts, washers, and = lock=20 nuts). This block covered the entire aft surface and stuck up about = 1-1/2"=20 or so from the top of the factory bracket. This had the effect of moving = the=20 motor up and aft slightly. Not only did this solve the tilting problem, = but=20 it all but eliminated the long-shaft motor dragging on a starboard tack = (even=20 with the block, the long shaft had more 'bite' than the short shaft, and = did=20 not pop out of the water when he went forward, or in big swells). I = have=20 made a nice teak block for my M15, but have not gotten around to mounting = it=20 yet. Well, that's my $.04 cents worth (corrected for inflation). I'd love to = hear=20 what you find. Scott Grometer, M15#478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 1, Ford 0 Date: 07 Sep 2001 22:29:11 -0500 I thought the M17 was marketed as an "Ice Breaker"? I don' t recall that you could tear up Fords with them. Perhaps you should enter a demolition derby? : ) Unplug your trailer lights before you back in the water. They won't burn out as often, if at all. If that doesn't work, swap them out for submersibles. They are sealed. Howard "htmills@bright.net" wrote: > I was taking BuscaBrisas up to the lake this afternoon and braked > to a stop at a light when I felt a thunk from behind. A young guy > driving a Ford Taurus had not stopped quite quickly enough and > fairly lightly struck the boat. > > Damage: > > Mongtomery 17 skeg had small area of red paint and the very aft bottom > corner of the skeg had a tiny amount of gelcoat scraped off. > > Ford hood had a 2" deep furrow about 18-24" long right up the center. Not > a pretty sight. > > I checked my lights and surprisingly they were working (they burn out an awful lot). > > Soooooo...I bought some of that Buff White gelcoat patch someone mentioned and > yes, it is a pretty good match; better than what I had mixed up certainly. Hopefully > it'll be dry enough in the morning to plop her in the water. > > Tod ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 1, Ford 0 Date: 08 Sep 2001 00:03:02 EDT --part1_10c.53a1c88.28caf276_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Most trailer lights burn out because of rapid cooling in the water. The hot glass cracks when hit with cold water. I used the boat trailer variety for years and never unplugged them. I left my parking lights on and used them at night to guide the boat back on the trailer. I could see them underwater. Sandy --part1_10c.53a1c88.28caf276_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Most trailer lights burn out because of rapid cooling in the water. The hot
glass cracks when hit with cold water. I used the boat trailer variety for
years and never unplugged them. I left my parking lights on and used them at
night to guide the boat back on the trailer. I could see them underwater.
Sandy --part1_10c.53a1c88.28caf276_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 1, Ford 0 Date: 07 Sep 2001 22:51:49 -0700 >Ford hood had a 2" deep furrow about 18-24" long right up the center. >I left my parking lights on and used them at night to guide the boat back on the trailer. I could see them underwater. Tod uses his M17 to customize Fords, Sandy's boat has a submersible beacon system and my M15 went traveling solo down the road without its tow vehicle. Jerry's creations are splendiferous! Joe Kidd M15 # 207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 08 Sep 2001 10:41:02 EDT In a message dated 09/06/2001 7:56:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time, jmbn@innercite.com writes: << I'd replace the whole thing. Jerry >> Now you're talkin'................. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda Questions/motor up Date: 08 Sep 2001 11:53:10 -0400 Hi Jane & Tom, I just cut a large access hatch in my M15, between sail locker and aft end of cockpit, to remove the bolts for the old fixed motor mount. Having done that, I think that you can probably reach in via the port sail locker and remove the nuts with a 3/8 ratchet drive and a socket. It might become a two man job: one person on the outside holding a screwdriver in the screw heads, while the inside man turns the ratchet: or just put a box end wrench on the nut, loosen it a tad, and then let the outside person unscrew the bolt. Admittedly, with the big access hatch, it becomes very easy to make the change, but if I were doing it again - on your boat - I'd try and do it without cutting the hatch first. If you then find that you don't contort properly to reach the nuts, you can always change your mind and cut an access port. Having said all this, I have to admit that I really like having my rectangular access hatch aft of the sail locker lid. I no longer have to fumble in the dark sail locker corners for my cleaning pail and cleaning materials. I now open the hatch, and all is instantly viewable and accessible. My fenders; fender board; pail; cleaning materials; and fuel transfer pump all live in that aft corner. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Good Idea Date: 08 Sep 2001 13:36:21 -0400 I have come upon something no trailer sailor can live without. Our supermarkets (in Connecticut) are now selling lettuce, celery, and various other vegetables that have a green band around them, holding them together, for easier handling and for shipment. These bands are like velcro - but only one piece is needed, it sticks to itself. Depending on product, these bands can be up to 12 inches long. I saved some, thinking they may be a handy item to have on board, and now find them indispensible on the M15. When on the road, I use these strips to hold halyards and shrouds to the mast to keep them from flopping about. Loops of shrouds are also held this way. In over 500 miles of 65 MPH highway travel, I haven't lost one of my lovely little strips. If you need a longer one, just put two together! Since they are for free when you buy your lettuce, it's a great boat accessory, and I haven't begun to exhaust new ideas for their use. Try them, you'll like them too! Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 1, Ford 0 Date: 08 Sep 2001 16:49:42 -0700 Hi Joe, That solo traveling sound like a story that should be shared with the rest of the gang... Regards, Steve >>Ford hood had a 2" deep furrow about 18-24" long right up the center. > >>I left my parking lights on and used them at night to guide the boat back >on the trailer. I could see them underwater. > > Tod uses his M17 to customize Fords, Sandy's boat has a submersible >beacon system and my M15 went traveling solo down the road without its tow >vehicle. Jerry's creations are splendiferous! > > Joe Kidd M15 # 207 "Poco A Poco" > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Wilkinson" Subject: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 09 Sep 2001 11:23:20 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C13921.D43DABC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am planning to put a tiller extention on my M17. It is one of the = Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations as to where to = drill the tiller to mount the unit? Tom ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C13921.D43DABC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am planning to put a tiller extention = on my M17.=20 It is one of the Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations = as to=20 where to drill the tiller to mount the unit?
Tom
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C13921.D43DABC0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stan Winarski Subject: M_Boats: M15 jib reefing and downhaul Date: 09 Sep 2001 17:44:52 -0400 I've registered as an owner. I'd like information on installing reefing points on my jib and also where to best locate the running blocks and cleats to install a down haul. I've found several messages talking about such things but none that describe how to do it. Thanks, Stan Winarski ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stan Winarski Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whoopsie! chatroom Date: 09 Sep 2001 21:05:11 -0400 Whoopsie Two - How come I'm getting your mail ????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Honda Questions/motor up Date: 10 Sep 2001 10:08:12 -0700 Hi Connie. Yes, I toyed with the idea of cutting access but decided after looking the situation over, that changing out the mount could be done with only moderate difficulty through the port lazarett, as you suggest. That's going to be one of those winter chores. t Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15/345 -- Chukar Sandpoint, Idaho -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 8:53 AM Hi Jane & Tom, I just cut a large access hatch in my M15, between sail locker and aft end of cockpit, to remove the bolts for the old fixed motor mount. Having done that, I think that you can probably reach in via the port sail locker and remove the nuts with a 3/8 ratchet drive and a socket. It might become a two man job: one person on the outside holding a screwdriver in the screw heads, while the inside man turns the ratchet: or just put a box end wrench on the nut, loosen it a tad, and then let the outside person unscrew the bolt. Admittedly, with the big access hatch, it becomes very easy to make the change, but if I were doing it again - on your boat - I'd try and do it without cutting the hatch first. If you then find that you don't contort properly to reach the nuts, you can always change your mind and cut an access port. Having said all this, I have to admit that I really like having my rectangular access hatch aft of the sail locker lid. I no longer have to fumble in the dark sail locker corners for my cleaning pail and cleaning materials. I now open the hatch, and all is instantly viewable and accessible. My fenders; fender board; pail; cleaning materials; and fuel transfer pump all live in that aft corner. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Jacobs" Subject: M_Boats: Autopilots Date: 10 Sep 2001 21:09:58 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C13A3C.F2DCF420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gang, After sailing (read 'steering') for 12 hours solid from Port Townsend = back to Victoria (Pedder Bay), I think I'd like an autopilot.=20 I have a chance to get a refurbished (full warranty) Navico (now Simrad) = TP10 for $239 US. It won't interface with a GPS and is not very = feature-rich. Any feedback on this unit or your experiences with others = would be much appreciated. Thanks! -Peter- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Peter Jacobs, M17 "Enfin" Victoria BC Canada 'The gods do not deduct from = man's allotted span those hours spent in sailing.' -- = Anonymous ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C13A3C.F2DCF420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Gang,
After sailing (read 'steering') for 12 hours solid = from Port=20 Townsend back to Victoria (Pedder Bay), I think I'd like an autopilot.=20
 
I have a chance to get a refurbished (full warranty) = Navico=20 (now Simrad) TP10 for $239 US. It won't interface with a GPS and is not = very=20 feature-rich. Any feedback on this unit or your experiences with others = would be=20 much appreciated.
 
Thanks!
 
-Peter-
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
Peter Jacobs, M17=20 "Enfin"
Victoria  BC Canada
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =       =20 'The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in=20 sailing.'
          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;        =20 -- Anonymous
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C13A3C.F2DCF420-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DoorAriel@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 11 Sep 2001 00:36:44 EDT --part1_3d.1126295e.28ceeedc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I mounted the forespar extension on my M17. Drilled the hole vertically through the tiller and screwed the socket in from the bottom. The extension is then inserted from the bottom. This allowed the most comfortable use of the extension. Works great. Permits you to slide to the forward end of the seats to balance the boat and hide from spray if seas are high. --part1_3d.1126295e.28ceeedc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I mounted the forespar extension on my M17.  Drilled the hole vertically
through the tiller and screwed the socket in from the bottom.  The extension
is then inserted from the bottom.  This allowed the most comfortable use of
the extension.  Works great.  Permits you to slide to the forward end of the
seats to balance the boat and hide from spray if seas are high. --part1_3d.1126295e.28ceeedc_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DoorAriel@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: M17 for sale Date: 11 Sep 2001 00:41:20 EDT --part1_26.1b06b8fa.28ceeff0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a montgomery 17 for sale at Yacht Works in Sister Bay, Wisconsin. I believe the numbers on the transom indicated it was built in 1975. White hull and deck. Few frills and a some dings here and there but OK. Has older trailer. They are asking $4900.00. Bet they'll take less this time of year in Wisconsin. Dick S. --part1_26.1b06b8fa.28ceeff0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      There is a montgomery 17 for sale at Yacht Works in Sister Bay,
Wisconsin.  I believe the numbers on the transom indicated it was built in
1975.  White hull and deck.  Few frills and a some dings here and there but
OK.  Has older trailer.

They are asking $4900.00.  Bet they'll take less this time of year in
Wisconsin.

Dick S.   --part1_26.1b06b8fa.28ceeff0_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DoorAriel@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Iron centerboard/swing keel cable Date: 11 Sep 2001 00:51:48 EDT --part1_15e.a947ff.28cef264_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My M17 has the early iron centerboard. The hoisting cable is a 1/8 inch cable threaded through the hoisting eye on the centerboard and swedged together there. When I got the boat I swedged another loop in the upper end of the cable and attached a line so I could cleat the board securely. The thing works but not well. Has anyone used a trailer winch system to raise and lower the iron boards? Guess I am thinking of a system like the one used on the M23. Dick S. --part1_15e.a947ff.28cef264_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My M17 has the early iron centerboard.  The hoisting cable is a 1/8 inch
cable threaded through the hoisting eye on the centerboard and swedged
together there.  When I got the boat I swedged another loop in the upper end
of the cable and attached a line so I could cleat the board securely.  The
thing works but not well.  Has anyone used a trailer winch system to raise
and lower the iron boards?  Guess I am thinking of a system like the one used
on the M23.

Dick S. --part1_15e.a947ff.28cef264_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Autopilots Date: 11 Sep 2001 03:02:05 EDT In a message dated 9/10/01 9:09:24 PM, pjacobs@islandnet.com writes: >I have a chance to get a refurbished (full warranty) Navico (now Simrad) >TP10 for $239 US. It won't interface with a GPS and is not very feature-rich. >Any feedback on this unit or your experiences with others would be much >appreciated. Peter, I cannot offer much regarding the Navico excepting that I have used one of the older versions, and it seemed to work fine. I can, however, relay to you some info I read last night on a thread from the Yahoo Flicka group--namely that Raytheon (now Raymarine) was being bashed for absolutely terrible customer service and warranty repairs. Apparently a number of owners had similar bad experiences, and none could not get any satisfaction from Raymarine. I noticed that West Marine now carries only Raymarine, but maybe that will change if they don't get their act together. Maybe the Navico is the better option! Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Fann Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 11 Sep 2001 07:44:56 -0400 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3083039096_300134_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Measure how much of the forward end of the tiller you need for a comfortable grip when not using the extension and drill one or two inches further aft. David Fann I am planning to put a tiller extention on my M17. It is one of the Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations as to where to drill the tiller to mount the unit? Tom --MS_Mac_OE_3083039096_300134_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Measure how much of the forward end of the tiller you need for a comfortabl= e grip when not using the extension and drill one or two inches further aft.=

David Fann



I am planning to put a tiller= extention on my M17. It is one of the Forespar adjustable length units. Any= recommendations as to where to drill the tiller to mount the unit?
Tom


--MS_Mac_OE_3083039096_300134_MIME_Part-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Autopilots Date: 11 Sep 2001 08:26:15 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13AC5.5518EDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have one of these that I use on Dolphin (about 8,000 pounds, 25ft LWL). Overall, it does what I ask of it on the Chesapeake Bay. I don't miss the ability to interface with other electronics. If it were to fail today, I would be happy to replace it at $239. Giles Morris ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13AC5.5518EDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have one of these that I use on Dolphin (about 8,000 pounds, 25ft LWL). Overall, it does what I ask of it on the Chesapeake Bay. I don't miss the ability to interface with other electronics. If it were to fail today, I would be happy to replace it at $239.
Giles Morris
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01C13AC5.5518EDF0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 11 Sep 2001 08:54:52 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13ADA.18657B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I guess I took another tack when I mounted my tiller extension (Forespar twist-lock). I was looking for maximum mechanical advantage, so mounted the extension far forward. The recepticle doesn't bother me when I hand steer, matter of fact, I don't even remember if my hand contacts the socket or not. I certainly disagree with mounting the extension on the bottom of the tiller. I frequently sit hiked out on the combing. I'm not certain, but I believe mounting the extension underneath would make that position unworkable. T Tom Smith LineSoft Corporation Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248 Fax: 509-928-2581 E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com Website: www.linesoft.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:45 AM Measure how much of the forward end of the tiller you need for a comfortable grip when not using the extension and drill one or two inches further aft. David Fann I am planning to put a tiller extention on my M17. It is one of the Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations as to where to drill the tiller to mount the unit? Tom ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13ADA.18657B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention
I guess I took another tack when I mounted my tiller extension (Forespar twist-lock).  I was looking for maximum mechanical advantage, so mounted the extension far forward.  The recepticle doesn't bother me when I hand steer, matter of fact, I don't even remember if my hand contacts the socket or not.  I certainly disagree with mounting the extension on the bottom of the tiller.  I frequently sit hiked out on the combing.  I'm not certain, but I believe mounting the extension underneath would make that position unworkable.  T
 

Tom Smith
LineSoft Corporation
Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248
Fax: 509-928-2581
E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com
Website: www.linesoft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fann [mailto:dafann@ufl.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:45 AM
To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention

Measure how much of the forward end of the tiller you need for a comfortable grip when not using the extension and drill one or two inches further aft.

David Fann



I am planning to put a tiller extention on my M17. It is one of the Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations as to where to drill the tiller to mount the unit?
Tom


------_=_NextPart_001_01C13ADA.18657B70-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Fann Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 11 Sep 2001 13:11:27 -0400 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3083058687_1478464_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I agree, the receptacle is not a problem when the extension is off the tiller. Very often, though, you want to steer with a hand on the tiller while the extension is still mounted, but pivoted around and secured in its clip, further aft on the tiller. I prefer to have a hand's width of clear tiller in that situation. Tom Smith is right: For best mechanical advantage, the receptacle should be as far forward as allowed by other considerations. [A forward position also gives the helmsman a little more flexibility in choosing where to perch.] David Fann I guess I took another tack when I mounted my tiller extension (Forespar twist-lock). I was looking for maximum mechanical advantage, so mounted the extension far forward. The recepticle doesn't bother me when I hand steer, matter of fact, I don't even remember if my hand contacts the socket or not. I certainly disagree with mounting the extension on the bottom of the tiller. I frequently sit hiked out on the combing. I'm not certain, but I believe mounting the extension underneath would make that position unworkable. T --MS_Mac_OE_3083058687_1478464_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention I agree, the receptacle is not a problem when the extension is off the till= er. Very often, though, you want to steer with a hand on the tiller while th= e extension is still mounted, but pivoted around and secured in its clip, fu= rther aft on the tiller.  I prefer to have a hand's width of clear till= er in that situation.

Tom Smith is right: For best mechanical advantage, the receptacle should be= as far forward as allowed by other considerations. [A forward position also= gives the helmsman a little more flexibility in choosing where to perch.]
David Fann



I guess I took another tack whe= n I mounted my tiller extension (Forespar twist-lock).  I was looking f= or maximum mechanical advantage, so mounted the extension far forward.  = ;The recepticle doesn't bother me when I hand steer, matter of fact, I don't= even remember if my hand contacts the socket or not.  I certainly disa= gree with mounting the extension on the bottom of the tiller.  I freque= ntly sit hiked out on the combing.  I'm not certain, but I believe moun= ting the extension underneath would make that position unworkable.  T

--MS_Mac_OE_3083058687_1478464_MIME_Part-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 11 Sep 2001 19:52:53 -0400 David, I got a new tiller from Bob Eeg, which was about 6 inches shorter than my old one. The old one had the fitting for the Forespar tiller extension located behind my normal hand hold, so that I would have a smooth grip. Since I already had the socket for the Forespar tiller extension mounted in the side of the cockpit, I didn't want to change the operating angle. So, I was forced to put the Forespar fitting as far forward on the tiller as possible - the 6 inches length I lost. I carefully countersunk the Forespar fitting into the tiller so that my grip area was as smooth as before. Now that I have been using it, I have no complaints: works well; and doesn't interfer with normal "comfortable" hand steering. But, I countersunk the Forespar fitting into the tiller so that it is below the surface. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve R. Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 11 Sep 2001 17:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Connie, Where did you mount the socket for the tiller extension? If you had it to do over, would you mount it the same way? Thanks, Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY --- Conbert H Benneck > wrote: >David, > >I got a new tiller from Bob Eeg, which was about 6 inches shorter than my >old one. > >The old one had the fitting for the Forespar tiller extension located >behind my normal hand hold, so that I would have a smooth grip. > >Since I already had the socket for the Forespar tiller extension mounted >in the side of the cockpit, I didn't want to change the operating angle. >So, I was forced to put the Forespar fitting as far forward on the tiller >as possible - the 6 inches length I lost. > >I carefully countersunk the Forespar fitting into the tiller so that my >grip area was as smooth as before. Now that I have been using it, I have >no complaints: works well; and doesn't interfer with normal >"comfortable" hand steering. > >But, I countersunk the Forespar fitting into the tiller so that it is >below the surface. > >Connie >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. _____________________________________________________________ Get your FREE saabnet.com email address - http://webmail.saabnet.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve R. Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 11 Sep 2001 18:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Hi Everyone, I can only watch CNN so long, so I will geve you an update on my 2 hp Honda. Thanks for all the great suggestions. Best Suggestion (The envelope please): Scott (Wilsometer@aol.com), in response to why the dealer comissioned the motor out of the water- "the dealer is a schmuck". Best Solution, also to Scott. The only thing that changed between comissioning and use was the water and backpressure. I gave the idle stop screw a turn or two and it idles fine now. Scott, drinks are on me if we ever meet. No amount of turning the motor could get it to tilt and lock up. Right side, left side, back side, no success. I may try the block approach but I think I will have my local metal shop bend me some new brackets. BTW, The new motor idles at 2000 rpm, which I suppose is a result of the modifications for low emissions. Thanks again! Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY --- Wilsometer@aol.com > wrote: > >In a message dated 9/6/01 3:59:53 PM, stever@mail.saabnet.com writes: > >>Doug seems to offer the only reasonable explanation for the dealer's actions. > >Either that, or the dealer is a schmuck. > >>Any suggestions? Does the throttle cable stretch? If so, should I wait >>for it to stretch some more before having it adjusted? Is it a carb >adjustment? >> Do I need more break in? Any one have similar experience? I kept the >>motor in the suggested storage position to prevent oil from fouling the >>plug. The gas was fresh. > >I don't think throttle cable stretch is your problem. If there is a problem >with the position of the throttle, it probably has more to do with it not >being set up/adjusted properly. I would bet you are dealing with either a >carb adjustment or perhaps even fuel bowl contamination instead (I'd put my >money on the carb adjustment). Here is my theory: the guy who decided to >set this thing up out of the water probably pulled the rope and sent you on >your way. You stick it in the water, and all of the sudden it does not want >to run at idle. Pourquoi pas? you might ask. Well, let's see, what is >different about the motor being in the water? Presumably the fuel, spark, >and compression of the motor does not change, non? What's left? Hmmm. Lets >see. What are the four strokes of the four-stroke? We have the intake (we >have eliminated that), we have compression (no, not that either), we have the >power stroke (well, as long as we have spark, that can't be it--and we have >spark because it runs well at higher RPM's, n'est pas?), and we have exhaust. > Exhaust--could that be it? C'est possible because the back pressure is >likely different when the motor is in the water then when it is out (exhaust >exits under water). What has back pressure got to do with anything? Maybe >nothing, maybe a lot--it depends on valve overlap, and a few other esoteric >concepts, but hey, it is a theory. Or then, maybe a chunk of tiny junk found >its way into the float bowl and ultimately into the float valve (metering >valve), and is keeping it stuck slightly open. This could result in too rich >a mixture at idle, but would tend to smooth out/equalize at higher rpms when >the float valve would be opening anyway. I favor this theory over a plugged >main nozzle (metering rod) or main jet, as either of these would tend to >produce better idle than high rpm operation. > >I can't recall for sure, but I think that some of the newer models might not >have an externally adjustable pilot screw (mixture adjustment). I think that >this may have been one of the changes that it made it 2006 EPA compliant. If >you do have one, however, here is a test that you might try (excerpted >directly from the Honda shop manual for the BF2A): > >"1) Start the engine and allow it to warm up to normal operating temperature. >2) With the engine idling (ha!) turn the pilot screw in or out to the >setting that produces the highest idle rpm. The correct setting will usually >be obtained at approximately the following number turns out from the fully >closed (tightly sealed) position: > >Pilot Screw opening: 2 turns > >3) After the pilot screw is correctly adjusted, attach a tachometer to the >engine and turn the throttle stop screw to obtain the standard idle speed. > >Standard Idle speed: 1400+/- rpm" > >Again, this is from a service manual at least one generation removed from >your motor, so the calibrations (turns, rpm) may be different, but the >principle should be the same. I really do think that the bloody dealer >should make it right--especially if adjustments are not possible, but hey, >maybe you are smarter than he is! > >>Has anyone replaced the plug in the carb with a drain cock and hose fitting >>to bleed the gas back into a can? > >Not me. > >>How much is a shop manual? Any one want to chip in and share one? > >I paid $19.80, but that was some time ago (earlier model). > >>The top of the motor hits the transom. Swiveling does not provide clearance. >> I am thinking of fabricating a new motor mount so the motor is slightly >>higher and further back. I have also considered grinding a little off >>the leg of the catch that holds the motor out of the water. Has anyone >>done this? How much is a replacement catch? > >Mine did this too, but I was able to swivel 90 degrees and then tilt up >without a problem (newer motor must be different). A friend of mine with an >M15 modified the stock bracket by attaching a teak block to the aft surface >of the stock motor mount (using stainless carriage bolts, washers, and lock >nuts). This block covered the entire aft surface and stuck up about 1-1/2" >or so from the top of the factory bracket. This had the effect of moving the >motor up and aft slightly. Not only did this solve the tilting problem, but >it all but eliminated the long-shaft motor dragging on a starboard tack (even >with the block, the long shaft had more 'bite' than the short shaft, and did >not pop out of the water when he went forward, or in big swells). I have >made a nice teak block for my M15, but have not gotten around to mounting it >yet. > >Well, that's my $.04 cents worth (corrected for inflation). I'd love to hear >what you find. > >Scott Grometer, M15#478 'bebe' _____________________________________________________________ Get your FREE saabnet.com email address - http://webmail.saabnet.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Montgomery" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 11 Sep 2001 17:33:01 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13AE7.CE61D920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: M_Boats: Tiller extentionI'll second this one- I like it at the very = end of the tiller so that I can grasp the extension along with the = tiller when sitting inboard. I steer by the extension most of the time. = Tom got one right for a change. Jerry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Smith=20 To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:54 PM Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller extention I guess I took another tack when I mounted my tiller extension = (Forespar twist-lock). I was looking for maximum mechanical advantage, = so mounted the extension far forward. The recepticle doesn't bother me = when I hand steer, matter of fact, I don't even remember if my hand = contacts the socket or not. I certainly disagree with mounting the = extension on the bottom of the tiller. I frequently sit hiked out on = the combing. I'm not certain, but I believe mounting the extension = underneath would make that position unworkable. T Tom Smith=20 LineSoft Corporation=20 Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248=20 Fax: 509-928-2581=20 E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com=20 Website: www.linesoft.com=20 -----Original Message----- From: David Fann [mailto:dafann@ufl.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:45 AM To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Measure how much of the forward end of the tiller you need for a = comfortable grip when not using the extension and drill one or two = inches further aft. David Fann I am planning to put a tiller extention on my M17. It is one of = the Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations as to where to = drill the tiller to mount the unit? Tom ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13AE7.CE61D920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention
I'll second this one- I like it at the very end of = the tiller=20 so that I can grasp the extension along with the tiller when sitting=20 inboard.  I steer by the extension most of the time. Tom got one = right for=20 a change.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom = Smith=20
To: 'montgomery_boats@l= ists.xmission.com'=20
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, = 2001 4:54=20 PM
Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller=20 extention

I guess I=20 took another tack when I mounted my tiller extension (Forespar=20 twist-lock).  I was looking for maximum mechanical advantage, so = mounted=20 the extension far forward.  The recepticle doesn't bother me when = I hand=20 steer, matter of fact, I don't even remember if my hand contacts the = socket or=20 not.  I certainly disagree with mounting the extension on the = bottom of=20 the tiller.  I frequently sit hiked out on the combing.  I'm = not=20 certain, but I believe mounting the extension underneath would make = that=20 position unworkable.  T
 

Tom Smith
LineSoft=20 Corporation
Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. = 248=20
Fax: 509-928-2581
E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com
Website: www.linesoft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fann=20 [mailto:dafann@ufl.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 = 4:45=20 AM
To: = montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re:=20 M_Boats: Tiller extention

Measure how much of = the=20 forward end of the tiller you need for a comfortable grip when not = using the=20 extension and drill one or two inches further aft.

David = Fann



I am planning to put a = tiller=20 extention on my M17. It is one of the Forespar adjustable length = units.=20 Any recommendations as to where to drill the tiller to mount the=20 = unit?
Tom


------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C13AE7.CE61D920-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DadMan2001@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Please Delete Me from getting anymore News letters - Thanks Date: 12 Sep 2001 00:14:01 EDT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Jacobs" Subject: M_Boats: Re: wooden boat festival Date: 11 Sep 2001 21:12:52 -0700 Sorry I missed you, Loyd. I missed you too, Dick Lane. The days went by so fast I totally forgot about phoning you :( But we WILL be back .... what a beautiful area! Now that the TV is finally quiet, I'll recap my trip to Port Townsend. The week prior to departure was filled with all the usual list making, last minute work on the boat, and worry about the weather. Thursday morning at dawn I launched from Pedder Bay, a 10 minute drive from my house. The guys at the ramp were talking about how windy it was out there, so I thought I might be back in about 2 hours instead of 4 days. But once out on the water I hoisted the main and Genoa and, thanks to the gps helping correct for the current through the Juan de Fuca Straight, had a brisk sail on a close reach to Ediz Hook light in about 2 3/4 hours. At that point the wind had died so I motored into Port Angeles Harbor. Once in the harbor the wind magically reappeared, so it was off-with-the-motor and up-with-the-sails again. I sailed over to the public dock and was making things shipshape when my friend Rod Johnson appeared. Rod used to own Tod Mills' M17 Busca Brisas. That afternoon we launched Rod's S&S Dolphin 24 and tied her up at his slip. Much celebrating ensued for the remainder of the day, after which I retired to Enfin and anchored out in the harbor for the night. It was not my best night on board ... something kept setting off my depth warning alarm (which I leave on in case I drag anchor). I suspect a playful seal. The next thing I hear is "Ahoy Enfin" ... it's 7am already and Rod is motoring around me in circles. We set out for Port Townsend under power, until we got past Dungeness Spit, when the tide turned in our favor and a slight breeze came up astern. Rod's boat slowly crept ahead (I bet it wouldn't if I hadn't been towing a dinghy) until he was a speck in the distance. Rounding Point Wilson there was quite a current running, fortunately in the right direction. Sailboats were converging from all directions to go to Port Townsend. It was quite a sight, and I was more than a little concerned about finding a place to anchor. Close to Port T. I joined up with Rod again and we cruised the waterfront for an anchorage. We both got a spot right in town at the end of one of the streets, right by a sandy beach. Rod's philosophy is to find out where the big boats are, then anchor between them and the shore. It worked. We spent Friday evening and most of Saturday enjoying all the beautiful boats, displays, and festivities. On our trip to the marina to refuel on Saturday pm and saw a nice little yellow M15 tied up. Coming out of the marina we "joined" all the wood boats in the middle of a race. There was everything from 8' skiffs to the 107' SALTS ship Pacific Grace. Sunday we pulled anchor at 7am and had a mixed bag of wind and calms all day. Rod got back to Port Angeles at 6pm and I hit Pedder Bay at 7pm. My total trip was 88 nautical miles, 4 days, 3 nights. I had a great time, got sunburned, ate tons of stuff (coolers are great!) and can hardly wait to get out again. To think I had doubts about even going ...... -Peter- ======================= Peter Jacobs, M17 "Enfin" Victoria BC Canada 'The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in sailing.' -- Anonymous ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:03 PM > Peter, > I saw Enfin anchored off Port Townsend Saturday -- regrettably, my > cruise to the San Juans was cut short early by a work emergency, so I > was actually on foot. Coming back from the festival to the ferry dock, > i took a boat taxi in hopes of getting a closer look and maybe finding > you on board, but you had already set sail for victory. > Anyway, Enfin was looking good ;) -- as to an autopilot, i have but > one thought: Whippersnap has a tiller tamer (from Davis, i think), and > i have found when single-handing, that if i get the tiller and the > outboard set correctly, i can relatively easily control the course by > shifting my weight port to starboard -- relatively small amounts, in > fact. > Otherwise, my thought would be spend a little extra and get the GPS > interface. > > Loyd > M17 #334 "Whippersnap" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Honda Questions Date: 12 Sep 2001 04:24:54 EDT In a message dated 9/11/01 6:19:43 PM, stever@mail.saabnet.com writes: >Hi Everyone, > >I can only watch CNN so long, so I will geve you an update on my 2 hp Honda. > Thanks for all the great suggestions. > >Best Suggestion (The envelope please): Scott (Wilsometer@aol.com), in response >to why the dealer comissioned the motor out of the water- > >"the dealer is a schmuck". > >Best Solution, also to Scott. The only thing that changed between comissioning >and use was the water and backpressure. I gave the idle stop screw a turn >or two and it idles fine now. > >Scott, drinks are on me if we ever meet. Well, I had a 50/50 chance of being right--guess I got lucky. Could have ended up looking like a schmuck myself! Maybe we'll meet at a future Montgom-o-rama rendezvous, or some such thing! >No amount of turning the motor could get it to tilt and lock up. Right >side, left side, back side, no success. I may try the block approach but >I think I will have my local metal shop bend me some new brackets. I think I am in the minority here, but I really like the simplicity of the block thing. It's cheap, its elegant, its simple. If nothing else, you could try it before punching new holes in the transom to accommodate a new bracket. > >Thanks again! > >Steve R. >M-15 #119 >Lexington, KY Good luck to you! Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 12 Sep 2001 15:24:42 -0700 I like your idea Connie. I'll modify the socket installation this winter. Countersinking the whole housing ought to make the thing practically unnoticeable. Tom Smith LineSoft Corporation Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248 Fax: 509-928-2581 E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com Website: www.linesoft.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:53 PM David, I got a new tiller from Bob Eeg, which was about 6 inches shorter than my old one. The old one had the fitting for the Forespar tiller extension located behind my normal hand hold, so that I would have a smooth grip. Since I already had the socket for the Forespar tiller extension mounted in the side of the cockpit, I didn't want to change the operating angle. So, I was forced to put the Forespar fitting as far forward on the tiller as possible - the 6 inches length I lost. I carefully countersunk the Forespar fitting into the tiller so that my grip area was as smooth as before. Now that I have been using it, I have no complaints: works well; and doesn't interfer with normal "comfortable" hand steering. But, I countersunk the Forespar fitting into the tiller so that it is below the surface. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: M_Boats: Gee, thanks Jerry Date: 12 Sep 2001 15:27:45 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13BDA.24D60680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer; Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike, Just hint at fault, and hesitate dislike. Alexander Pope Imitations of Horace Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15/345 -- Chukar Sandpoint, Idaho -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:33 AM I'll second this one- I like it at the very end of the tiller so that I can grasp the extension along with the tiller when sitting inboard. I steer by the extension most of the time. Tom got one right for a change. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:54 PM I guess I took another tack when I mounted my tiller extension (Forespar twist-lock). I was looking for maximum mechanical advantage, so mounted the extension far forward. The recepticle doesn't bother me when I hand steer, matter of fact, I don't even remember if my hand contacts the socket or not. I certainly disagree with mounting the extension on the bottom of the tiller. I frequently sit hiked out on the combing. I'm not certain, but I believe mounting the extension underneath would make that position unworkable. T Tom Smith LineSoft Corporation Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248 Fax: 509-928-2581 E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com Website: www.linesoft.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:45 AM Measure how much of the forward end of the tiller you need for a comfortable grip when not using the extension and drill one or two inches further aft. David Fann I am planning to put a tiller extention on my M17. It is one of the Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations as to where to drill the tiller to mount the unit? Tom ------_=_NextPart_001_01C13BDA.24D60680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention
 

Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,

And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer;

Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike,

Just hint at fault, and hesitate dislike.

Alexander Pope Imitations of Horace

 

Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle
M15/345 -- Chukar
Sandpoint, Idaho

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Montgomery [mailto:jmbn@innercite.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:33 AM
To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention

I'll second this one- I like it at the very end of the tiller so that I can grasp the extension along with the tiller when sitting inboard.  I steer by the extension most of the time. Tom got one right for a change.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller extention

I guess I took another tack when I mounted my tiller extension (Forespar twist-lock).  I was looking for maximum mechanical advantage, so mounted the extension far forward.  The recepticle doesn't bother me when I hand steer, matter of fact, I don't even remember if my hand contacts the socket or not.  I certainly disagree with mounting the extension on the bottom of the tiller.  I frequently sit hiked out on the combing.  I'm not certain, but I believe mounting the extension underneath would make that position unworkable.  T
 

Tom Smith
LineSoft Corporation
Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248
Fax: 509-928-2581
E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com
Website: www.linesoft.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fann [mailto:dafann@ufl.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:45 AM
To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention

Measure how much of the forward end of the tiller you need for a comfortable grip when not using the extension and drill one or two inches further aft.

David Fann



I am planning to put a tiller extention on my M17. It is one of the Forespar adjustable length units. Any recommendations as to where to drill the tiller to mount the unit?
Tom


------_=_NextPart_001_01C13BDA.24D60680-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 12 Sep 2001 21:51:26 -0400 Tom, If you do a careful job, you can't even feel it . I also cut down the end of the tiller so that you are not holding a baseball bat, but something daintier that fits your grip more readily. Try it, you'll like it! Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hazel G. Lane" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: wooden boat festival Date: 12 Sep 2001 22:49:57 -0700 Peter, sorry I missed you, the M15 belongs to David, a retired nuclear physicist form Los Alamos. I looked for your boat obout 5.30 pm on Saturday by motoring Swoose thru the fleet following the Schooner Race. Glad you had safe crossings. Regards, Dick > On our trip to the marina to refuel on > Saturday pm and saw a nice little yellow M15 tied up. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller length Date: 13 Sep 2001 08:43:22 -0700 On this subject, I've thought about replacing the stock tiller with one another 6 or 8 inches in length. I find the existing tiller a little short and even a little low. Has anyone done this? It would be easy to fabricate, or probably one of west marine's could be modified to work. Comments? Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15/345 -- Chukar Sandpoint, Idaho -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 6:51 PM Tom, If you do a careful job, you can't even feel it . I also cut down the end of the tiller so that you are not holding a baseball bat, but something daintier that fits your grip more readily. Try it, you'll like it! Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 13 Sep 2001 13:09:03 -0400 Hi.. Any suggestions as to which turnbuckles are best for a M-17 ?? Harvey/Ga M-17 Starazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Theo Petron" Subject: M_Boats: Friday 7pm Date: 13 Sep 2001 12:50:33 -0500 Something to think about when we are going about our busy lives, try to make time. This would be cool-if everyone really did this. Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or step out of your establishment and light a candle. We will show the world that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism. Please pass this along to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly. The message: WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM! Thank you. We need press to cover this - we need the world to see. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Tiller fabrication Date: 13 Sep 2001 12:52:56 -0700 Tom, I have made a couple of tillers and think they are relatively easy projects. They were made with alternating layers of laminated mahogany and ash. You can make the tiller with the laminations either horizontal or verticle. For horizontal laminations, draw a contour line for one side of your tiller design on a piece of particle board. I think a lazy S-shape looks really nice. Mill the wood to about 2" x 3/16" thick. Make a jig by glueing and screwing blocks of 2" x 2" to the particle board along the contour line. Using a waterproof glue -- the new polyurethane glues would work great -- you simply glue/lam one piece of wood to another. Clamp the glued pieces to the jig blocks (make sure the thin wood don't twist) and repeat the process one layer at a time. Be patient. Give each lamination time to set up before glueing the next piece. Place waxed paper under the laminations to prevent the tiller from bonding to the jig. For vertical glue/lams, clamp alternating pieces of 6" x 3/16" wood together and bandsaw the tiller shape after the glue has cured. Then you get out your handy-dandy hand and/or power tools and taper, shave, shape and sand the tiller until it looks and feels just right. Just imagine your satisfaction from such a functional work of art that you created yourself. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" > On this subject, I've thought about replacing the stock tiller with one > another 6 or 8 inches in length. I find the existing tiller a little short > and even a little low. Has anyone done this? It would be easy to > fabricate, or probably one of west marine's could be modified to work. > Comments? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller fabrication Date: 13 Sep 2001 19:50:08 -0500 My old tiller split at the rudder end at the bolt holes. So I made a new one out of a solid piece of clear white oak.....no laminations at all. As per Larry Pardey, you know it's strong enough when you can block it up on either end, and then jump on it in the middle. This one will take it. I used the band saw method Joe outlines for the verticle lamination approach. Access to a good set of shop tools makes it lots easier. I cut mine out and shaped it in about two hours. 7 coats of varnish took much longer. Howard Joe Kidd wrote: > Then you get out your handy-dandy hand and/or power tools and taper, > shave, shape and sand the tiller until it looks and feels just right. > > Just imagine your satisfaction from such a functional work of art that > you created yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller fabrication Date: 13 Sep 2001 18:03:13 -0700 Great ideas guys. I just read a book called Wooden Boats: In Pursuit of the Perfect Craft at an American Boatyard, by Ruhlman. It's about the B&G yard on Martha's Vineyard. In it Ross Gannon (the G in B&G) makes a replacement tiller from black locust. Just cuts it out on the band saw and shapes it. Maybe I'll find a piece of that and go to work... T Tom Smith LineSoft Corporation Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248 Fax: 509-928-2581 E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com Website: www.linesoft.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 5:50 PM My old tiller split at the rudder end at the bolt holes. So I made a new one out of a solid piece of clear white oak.....no laminations at all. As per Larry Pardey, you know it's strong enough when you can block it up on either end, and then jump on it in the middle. This one will take it. I used the band saw method Joe outlines for the verticle lamination approach. Access to a good set of shop tools makes it lots easier. I cut mine out and shaped it in about two hours. 7 coats of varnish took much longer. Howard Joe Kidd wrote: > Then you get out your handy-dandy hand and/or power tools and taper, > shave, shape and sand the tiller until it looks and feels just right. > > Just imagine your satisfaction from such a functional work of art that > you created yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Montgomery" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 13 Sep 2001 10:15:17 +0100 Open, chrome plated bronze barrels with a toggle on the bottom only is what I like best. Jerry. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:09 PM > Hi.. > > Any suggestions as to which turnbuckles are best for a M-17 ?? > > Harvey/Ga > M-17 Starazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harvey Hochstetter" Subject: M_Boats: M-15 OB power Date: 14 Sep 2001 04:46:08 -0600 Greetings Sailors, I want to thank all of you who responded to my queries re OB power for the M-15. I spent last Sunday sailing "Pelican" , sharing tiller time with Deena and her Dad. We had a wonderful day and the boat was better than I had hoped. For better than half the time the prime factor in sailing was absent, ( no wind, ) so we had opportunity to get acquainted with the "Iron Jib". I managed to find a 2000 Mercury 3.3HP . It has Forward and Neutral, weighs 30 pounds, both part of my requirements. I would have preferred a 4 stroke but just could come up with one. The Merc is a standard shaft length. On the river, with no wind and minimal current, and with three adults on board we were able to do 4.8 knots by G.P.S., at half throttle. It worked perfectly every start. I did add a one inch block on the factory OB mount, aft of the factory block. It allows the Merc to tilt and lock without touching on the transom. Thanks for that idea, it was a good one. I may add the stainless, adjustable mount but not until after this season. We are looking at a trip to Northern Idaho lakes, and maybe a trip to Bear Lake on the N. Utah and Idaho boarders yet this fall. Thanks to each for your ideas and opinions. This format is a gold mine for us newbees. Harvey & Deena M-15 #348 Pelican lohhochs@ihc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 14 Sep 2001 06:35:30 -0500 Jerry Montgomery wrote: > Open, chrome plated bronze barrels with a toggle on the bottom only is what > I like best. > > Jerry. > You are suggesting that the turnbuckle should be swaged on to the stay and a permanent part of it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 14 Sep 2001 06:45:40 -0700 --------------090906050702080403090301 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howard The stay has a threaded rod swaged on the end. The turnbuckle simply screws onto this threaded rod and the business end has a toggle that attaches to the chainplate. Each end has opposing threads; one clockwise the other counter- clockwise. After attaching you can simply turn the barrel of the turnbuckle to adjust it tighter or looser. Bob Howard A wrote: > > Jerry Montgomery wrote: > >> Open, chrome plated bronze barrels with a toggle on the bottom only is what >> I like best. >> >> Jerry. >> > > You are suggesting that the turnbuckle should be swaged on to the stay and a > permanent part of it? > > > > --------------090906050702080403090301 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howard

The stay has a threaded rod swaged on the end.

The turnbuckle simply screws onto this threaded rod and the
business end has a toggle that attaches to the chainplate.

Each end has opposing threads; one clockwise the other counter-
clockwise.  After attaching you can simply turn the barrel of the
turnbuckle to adjust it tighter or looser.

Bob

Howard A wrote:

Jerry Montgomery wrote:

Open, chrome plated bronze barrels with a toggle on the bottom only is what
I like best.

Jerry.


You are suggesting that the turnbuckle should be swaged on to the stay and a
permanent part of it?





--------------090906050702080403090301-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 OB power Date: 14 Sep 2001 09:51:02 -0400 Harvey & Deena, Congratulations on your first trip. May you have many more in times to come. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Olson Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tonight Date: 14 Sep 2001 13:24:29 -0700 I, and my family will participate in this rememberance in honor of those that lost their lives in this terrible tragedy. But, I think it's important to be aware that our future actions could make an important difference in whether we make the world a better or worse place. It's all too likely that an evil act could generate another. For the sake of our children, I hope that we can balance our anger with good judgement. In the words of Michael Moore; 9/13/01 Across America Tonight ... Dear Friends, I am on the road tonight, the only way to get out of L.A. and back home to our daughter and our friends in New York City. Oddly enough, I have never driven across this vast country. My wife and I have now stopped in Flagstaff for a few hours sleep before moving on. The sorrow and anger builds across America. Talk radio tonight was filled with calls for carpet-bombing every Arab country. Many want revenge, blood. But a surprising number of people have called for us to not add to the killing of more innocent humans. The rest stops and the convenience stores along the way were filled with quiet, solemn people, many of whom, like us, can get home no other way than by this four-day trip. Our daughter is fine, mostly frightened by my desire to fly home to her rather than drive. Once again, I was outvoted 2 to 1. This is nothing new. We have learned of more people we know who have lost their lives. Bill Weems, who worked as a line producer for us this year, was on the flight from Boston that crashed into the World Trade Center. He was such a sweet and decent soul. Such senseless madness. The children of New York who are orphaned tonight ... what do we say or do? I will do my part -- anything, something -- as soon as I get to New York. But it will never be enough. The firefighters of New York: they are on every other block, every day, and they are your best neighbors. Sitting out on the sidewalks in front of the fire stations, a good word and a kind smile to all who pass ... now, 350+ of them gone, having risked their lives to save the victims of a carnage they soon became part of. A good friend from Flint is a clerical worker at the Pentagon. I have heard no word about her condition. I have tried contacting her family to no avail. Her son, Malcolm, worked on our show. I cannot find him. I keep getting tears in my eyes. Once she gave me a tour of the Pentagon, took me everywhere, and got such a kick out of taking me around this building I used to march on. Will our mutual friends who know Barbara, and know how she is, please write me? Please. The man who occupies the White House cried today. Good. Keep crying, Mr. Bush. The more you cry, the less you will go to that dark side in all humans where anger rages to a point where we want to blindly kill. Your dad's and Reagan's old cronies -- Eagleberger, Baker, Schultz -- are all calling for you to bomb first and ask questions later. You must NOT do this. If only because you do not want to stoop to these mass murderers' level. Yes, find out who did it. Yes, see that they NEVER do it again. But GET A GRIP, man. "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? For chrissakes, call the Israelis and have them do that thing they do when they want to get their man! We pay them enough billions each year, I am SURE they would be happy to accommodate your request. But I beg you, Mr. Bush, stay with the tears. Go today to comfort the wounded of New York. Tell the mayor, a guy most of us have not liked, that he is doing an incredible job, keeping the spirits of everyone up as high as they can be at this moment. Being there for a city I believe he loves, his own cancer still with him, he goes beyond the call of duty. But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed civilians. Then he bombed a factory in the Sudan, saying it was "making chemical weapons." It turned out to be making aspirin. Innocent people murdered by our Air Force. Back in May, you gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $48 million dollars of our tax money. No free nation on earth would give them a cent, but you gave them a gift of $48 million because they said they had "banned all drugs." Because your drug war was more important than the actual war the Taliban had inflicted on its own people, you helped to fund the regime who had given refuge to the very man you now say is responsible for killing my friend on that plane and for killing the friends of families of thousands and thousands of people. How dare you talk about more killing now! Shame! Shame! Shame! Explain your actions in support of the Taliban! Tell us why your father and his partner Mr. Reagan trained Mr. bin Laden in how to be a terrorist! Am I angry? You bet I am. I am an American citizen, and my leaders have taken my money to fund mass murder. And now my friends have paid the price with their lives. Keep crying, Mr. Bush. Keep running to Omaha or wherever it is you go while others die, just as you ran during Vietnam while claiming to be "on duty" in the Air National Guard. Nine boys from my high school died in that miserable war. And now you are asking for "unity" so you can start another one? Do not insult me or my country like this! Yes, I, too, will be in church at noon today, on this national day of mourning. I will pray for you, and us, and the children of New York, and the children of this sad and ugly world ... Yours, Michael Moore mmlfint@aol.com www.michaelmoore.com --------------------- Peace, Bob Olson M-15 #296 "Piccolo" > >> ---------- >> From: Michele Sladko[SMTP:sladkomd@yahoo.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:36 AM >> To: Brandi Isabell; Panco, Dave >> Subject: Tonight >> >> Subject: Fw: Candle light vigal >> >> >> Please read this....and pass it on to as many as >> possible. >> >> Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop >> your car, or step >> >> out of your establishment and light a candle. We >> will show the world that >> >> Americans are strong and united together against >> terrorism. Please >> >> pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to >> reach everyone across >> >> the United States quickly. The message: WE STAND >> UNITED - WE WILL NOT >> >> TOLERATE TERRORISM! >> >> Thank you. >> >> We need press to cover this - we need the world to >> see. >> >> Kristen J. Balogas >> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? >> Donate cash, emergency relief information in Yahoo! >> News >> > cy >> _Information/> . >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? >> Donate cash, emergency relief information >> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ed Armstrong" Subject: M_Boats: Trailer sailor website Date: 14 Sep 2001 13:29:13 -0700 I just tried to get into the trailer sailor website (www.trailersailor.com) and got a "Site no longer active". Anybody know what's up? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer sailor website Date: 14 Sep 2001 13:37:43 -0700 I think it's just a weg glitch. Try again later. I was on it yesterday. t Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15/345 -- Chukar Sandpoint, Idaho -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 1:29 PM I just tried to get into the trailer sailor website (www.trailersailor.com) and got a "Site no longer active". Anybody know what's up? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: Tonight Date: 14 Sep 2001 14:22:02 -0700 I don't know about you guys, but I've been mourning since Tuesday a.m. I don't need a church for that. I also agree more rather than less with Mike Moore. We are not at war. We need to kick ass at some very specific sites but to add the names of more innocent people to an already long list of victims is not right. There is something seriously wrong if our multi-billion dollar intelligence infrastructure can't determine who the bad guy is and then can't get to him without scorching the earth in the process. Sorry for the OT rant (Bob started it...). Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15/345 -- Chukar Sandpoint, Idaho -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 1:24 PM I, and my family will participate in this rememberance in honor of those that lost their lives in this terrible tragedy. But, I think it's important to be aware that our future actions could make an important difference in whether we make the world a better or worse place. It's all too likely that an evil act could generate another. For the sake of our children, I hope that we can balance our anger with good judgement. In the words of Michael Moore; 9/13/01 Across America Tonight ... Dear Friends, I am on the road tonight, the only way to get out of L.A. and back home to our daughter and our friends in New York City. Oddly enough, I have never driven across this vast country. My wife and I have now stopped in Flagstaff for a few hours sleep before moving on. The sorrow and anger builds across America. Talk radio tonight was filled with calls for carpet-bombing every Arab country. Many want revenge, blood. But a surprising number of people have called for us to not add to the killing of more innocent humans. The rest stops and the convenience stores along the way were filled with quiet, solemn people, many of whom, like us, can get home no other way than by this four-day trip. Our daughter is fine, mostly frightened by my desire to fly home to her rather than drive. Once again, I was outvoted 2 to 1. This is nothing new. We have learned of more people we know who have lost their lives. Bill Weems, who worked as a line producer for us this year, was on the flight from Boston that crashed into the World Trade Center. He was such a sweet and decent soul. Such senseless madness. The children of New York who are orphaned tonight ... what do we say or do? I will do my part -- anything, something -- as soon as I get to New York. But it will never be enough. The firefighters of New York: they are on every other block, every day, and they are your best neighbors. Sitting out on the sidewalks in front of the fire stations, a good word and a kind smile to all who pass ... now, 350+ of them gone, having risked their lives to save the victims of a carnage they soon became part of. A good friend from Flint is a clerical worker at the Pentagon. I have heard no word about her condition. I have tried contacting her family to no avail. Her son, Malcolm, worked on our show. I cannot find him. I keep getting tears in my eyes. Once she gave me a tour of the Pentagon, took me everywhere, and got such a kick out of taking me around this building I used to march on. Will our mutual friends who know Barbara, and know how she is, please write me? Please. The man who occupies the White House cried today. Good. Keep crying, Mr. Bush. The more you cry, the less you will go to that dark side in all humans where anger rages to a point where we want to blindly kill. Your dad's and Reagan's old cronies -- Eagleberger, Baker, Schultz -- are all calling for you to bomb first and ask questions later. You must NOT do this. If only because you do not want to stoop to these mass murderers' level. Yes, find out who did it. Yes, see that they NEVER do it again. But GET A GRIP, man. "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? For chrissakes, call the Israelis and have them do that thing they do when they want to get their man! We pay them enough billions each year, I am SURE they would be happy to accommodate your request. But I beg you, Mr. Bush, stay with the tears. Go today to comfort the wounded of New York. Tell the mayor, a guy most of us have not liked, that he is doing an incredible job, keeping the spirits of everyone up as high as they can be at this moment. Being there for a city I believe he loves, his own cancer still with him, he goes beyond the call of duty. But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed civilians. Then he bombed a factory in the Sudan, saying it was "making chemical weapons." It turned out to be making aspirin. Innocent people murdered by our Air Force. Back in May, you gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $48 million dollars of our tax money. No free nation on earth would give them a cent, but you gave them a gift of $48 million because they said they had "banned all drugs." Because your drug war was more important than the actual war the Taliban had inflicted on its own people, you helped to fund the regime who had given refuge to the very man you now say is responsible for killing my friend on that plane and for killing the friends of families of thousands and thousands of people. How dare you talk about more killing now! Shame! Shame! Shame! Explain your actions in support of the Taliban! Tell us why your father and his partner Mr. Reagan trained Mr. bin Laden in how to be a terrorist! Am I angry? You bet I am. I am an American citizen, and my leaders have taken my money to fund mass murder. And now my friends have paid the price with their lives. Keep crying, Mr. Bush. Keep running to Omaha or wherever it is you go while others die, just as you ran during Vietnam while claiming to be "on duty" in the Air National Guard. Nine boys from my high school died in that miserable war. And now you are asking for "unity" so you can start another one? Do not insult me or my country like this! Yes, I, too, will be in church at noon today, on this national day of mourning. I will pray for you, and us, and the children of New York, and the children of this sad and ugly world ... Yours, Michael Moore mmlfint@aol.com www.michaelmoore.com --------------------- Peace, Bob Olson M-15 #296 "Piccolo" > >> ---------- >> From: Michele Sladko[SMTP:sladkomd@yahoo.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:36 AM >> To: Brandi Isabell; Panco, Dave >> Subject: Tonight >> >> Subject: Fw: Candle light vigal >> >> >> Please read this....and pass it on to as many as >> possible. >> >> Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop >> your car, or step >> >> out of your establishment and light a candle. We >> will show the world that >> >> Americans are strong and united together against >> terrorism. Please >> >> pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to >> reach everyone across >> >> the United States quickly. The message: WE STAND >> UNITED - WE WILL NOT >> >> TOLERATE TERRORISM! >> >> Thank you. >> >> We need press to cover this - we need the world to >> see. >> >> Kristen J. Balogas >> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? >> Donate cash, emergency relief information in Yahoo! >> News >> > cy >> _Information/> . >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? >> Donate cash, emergency relief information >> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan White Subject: Re: OT OT OT M_Boats: Re: Tonight Date: 14 Sep 2001 16:47:24 -0500 Personally, I found Mr. Moore's comments incendiary. I have been on a steady diet of CNN and Fox News since Tuesday. I haven't heard one government official call for a scorched earth or indiscriminate attacks on anyone. On the contrary, what I have clearly heard them say is that they will find out who is responsible and will present their evidence to allies, including the NATO nations. Once they have consensus, then they will act against the perpetrators, in concert with the allies. That's what I've heard them say. I believe we will find cells of these organizations operating within the U.S. What are we going to do? Bomb Boston? I think not. Dan White M17 #316B Tom Smith wrote: > > I don't know about you guys, but I've been mourning since Tuesday a.m. I > don't need a church for that. I also agree more rather than less with Mike > Moore. We are not at war. We need to kick ass at some very specific sites > but to add the names of more innocent people to an already long list of > victims is not right. There is something seriously wrong if our > multi-billion dollar intelligence infrastructure can't determine who the bad > guy is and then can't get to him without scorching the earth in the process. > Sorry for the OT rant (Bob started it...). > > Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle > M15/345 -- Chukar > Sandpoint, Idaho > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Olson [mailto:bobo4u@earthlink.net] > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 1:24 PM > To: sail@tx3.com; montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tonight > > I, and my family will participate in this rememberance in honor of those > that lost their lives in this terrible tragedy. > > But, I think it's important to be aware that our future actions could > make an important difference in whether we make the world a better or > worse place. It's all too likely that an evil act could generate another. > For the sake of our children, I hope that we can balance our anger with > good judgement. > > In the words of Michael Moore; > > 9/13/01 > > Across America Tonight ... > > Dear Friends, > > I am on the road tonight, the only way to get out of L.A. and back home > to > our daughter and our friends in New York City. Oddly enough, I have never > driven across this vast country. My wife and I have now stopped in > Flagstaff for a few hours sleep before moving on. > > The sorrow and anger builds across America. Talk radio tonight was filled > with calls for carpet-bombing every Arab country. Many want revenge, > blood. > But a surprising number of people have called for us to not add to the > killing of more innocent humans. The rest stops and the convenience > stores > along the way were filled with quiet, solemn people, many of whom, like > us, > can get home no other way than by this four-day trip. > > Our daughter is fine, mostly frightened by my desire to fly home to her > rather than drive. Once again, I was outvoted 2 to 1. This is nothing new. > > We have learned of more people we know who have lost their lives. Bill > Weems, who worked as a line producer for us this year, was on the flight > from Boston that crashed into the World Trade Center. He was such a sweet > and decent soul. Such senseless madness. > > The children of New York who are orphaned tonight ... what do we say or > do? > I will do my part -- anything, something -- as soon as I get to New York. > But it will never be enough. > > The firefighters of New York: they are on every other block, every day, > and > they are your best neighbors. Sitting out on the sidewalks in front of > the > fire stations, a good word and a kind smile to all who pass ... now, 350+ > of them gone, having risked their lives to save the victims of a carnage > they soon became part of. > > A good friend from Flint is a clerical worker at the Pentagon. I have > heard > no word about her condition. I have tried contacting her family to no > avail. Her son, Malcolm, worked on our show. I cannot find him. I keep > getting tears in my eyes. Once she gave me a tour of the Pentagon, took > me > everywhere, and got such a kick out of taking me around this building I > used to march on. Will our mutual friends who know Barbara, and know how > she is, please write me? Please. > > The man who occupies the White House cried today. Good. Keep crying, Mr. > Bush. The more you cry, the less you will go to that dark side in all > humans where anger rages to a point where we want to blindly kill. Your > dad's and Reagan's old cronies -- Eagleberger, Baker, Schultz -- are all > calling for you to bomb first and ask questions later. You must NOT do > this. If only because you do not want to stoop to these mass murderers' > level. Yes, find out who did it. Yes, see that they NEVER do it again. > > But GET A GRIP, man. "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the > desert > whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most > powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a > guy? > Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If > you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would > you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? For > chrissakes, > call the Israelis and have them do that thing they do when they want to > get > their man! We pay them enough billions each year, I am SURE they would be > happy to accommodate your request. > > But I beg you, Mr. Bush, stay with the tears. Go today to comfort the > wounded of New York. Tell the mayor, a guy most of us have not liked, > that > he is doing an incredible job, keeping the spirits of everyone up as high > as they can be at this moment. Being there for a city I believe he loves, > his own cancer still with him, he goes beyond the call of duty. > > But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's > previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what > he > said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed > civilians. Then he bombed a factory in the Sudan, saying it was "making > chemical weapons." It turned out to be making aspirin. Innocent people > murdered by our Air Force. > > Back in May, you gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $48 million dollars of > our > tax money. No free nation on earth would give them a cent, but you gave > them a gift of $48 million because they said they had "banned all drugs." > > Because your drug war was more important than the actual war the Taliban > had inflicted on its own people, you helped to fund the regime who had > given refuge to the very man you now say is responsible for killing my > friend on that plane and for killing the friends of families of thousands > and thousands of people. How dare you talk about more killing now! Shame! > Shame! Shame! Explain your actions in support of the Taliban! Tell us why > your father and his partner Mr. Reagan trained Mr. bin Laden in how to be > a > terrorist! > > Am I angry? You bet I am. I am an American citizen, and my leaders have > taken my money to fund mass murder. And now my friends have paid the > price > with their lives. > > Keep crying, Mr. Bush. Keep running to Omaha or wherever it is you go > while > others die, just as you ran during Vietnam while claiming to be "on duty" > in the Air National Guard. Nine boys from my high school died in that > miserable war. And now you are asking for "unity" so you can start > another > one? Do not insult me or my country like this! > > Yes, I, too, will be in church at noon today, on this national day of > mourning. I will pray for you, and us, and the children of New York, and > the children of this sad and ugly world ... > > Yours, > > Michael Moore > mmlfint@aol.com > www.michaelmoore.com > > --------------------- > Peace, Bob Olson > M-15 #296 "Piccolo" > > > > >> ---------- > >> From: Michele Sladko[SMTP:sladkomd@yahoo.com] > >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:36 AM > >> To: Brandi Isabell; Panco, Dave > >> Subject: Tonight > >> > >> Subject: Fw: Candle light vigal > >> > >> > >> Please read this....and pass it on to as many as > >> possible. > >> > >> Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop > >> your car, or step > >> > >> out of your establishment and light a candle. We > >> will show the world that > >> > >> Americans are strong and united together against > >> terrorism. Please > >> > >> pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to > >> reach everyone across > >> > >> the United States quickly. The message: WE STAND > >> UNITED - WE WILL NOT > >> > >> TOLERATE TERRORISM! > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> We need press to cover this - we need the world to > >> see. > >> > >> Kristen J. Balogas > >> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > >> Donate cash, emergency relief information in Yahoo! > >> News > >> > >> cy > >> _Information/> . > >> > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > >> Donate cash, emergency relief information > >> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ed Armstrong" Subject: Re: M_Boats: TSBB Date: 14 Sep 2001 15:10:06 -0700 That is unfortunate. It was a wealth of information that (generally) fostered a great community spirit. I hope he reconsiders. Happy sailing. "htmills@bright.net" wrote: > Todd Johnson, the webmaster of the Trailer Sailor Bulletin Board made the > following post on the Cruising World Bulletin Board: > > >The Trailer Sailor is gone > >Posted By: Todd J > >Date: Friday, 1:35 p.m. > >In Response To: OK what's happened to the TSBB - Message says site is no > >longer active!(nm) (Ron Chappell) > > >It will not be back. I have wasted countless hours on it for little > >return. Time to move on. > > >T > > Hopefully he'll either just cool down or else give the board to someone else to run > (as it was given to him by the founder, Brad Bachelor). Things have been pretty > heated there this week. > > I'm going sailing. This evening I plan to sail over to the islands with my two pups at > my feet, take in the cool night air and see if I can maybe find some of > those connect-the-dot figures in the stars. > > Tod -- Ed Armstrong Operations Systems Engineer Globalstar 916-605-5459 ed.armstrong@globalstar.com The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribut- ion or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact postmaster@globalstar.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEHowe@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Tonight Date: 14 Sep 2001 19:27:12 EDT The sadness and raw emotion that this event has evoked in all of us is not off topic. Share your feelings. Give blood. Tell your loved ones that you love them. Hold your head up, and show the world that the UNITED States of America is truly that, and that evil cannot cow us. In teh words of Charles Dickens' Tiny Tim, God bless us every one. T. Howe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tonight Date: 14 Sep 2001 17:34:53 -0600 To date, all of the messages pertaining to this unbelievable tragedy have been civil and gentlemanly, as yahtsmen and women always conduct themselves. I don't want to discourage discussion on this topic but I do want to remind everyone that emotions are raw and remarks may easily be misunderstood or misinterpreted. Please, before you post, be extremely sensitive and think several times about how your thoughts might be received. Thank you all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Smitty" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer sailor website Date: 14 Sep 2001 14:49:46 -0500 This is what I found tonight. Smitty US-842 Sail Hard or Stay on the Beach TO ALL TRAILER SAILORS I simply do not have the personal resources or patience to manage this site any longer. It has been difficult enough since Doc's death to continue. The events of the last week and the very strong reactions of everyone have simply become too much. If anyone is interested in taking over the Trailer Sailor, please contact me, but I must warn you, it is a huge undertaking. This site requires a great deal of bandwidth and maintenance, and does not come even close to pay for itself. My sincerest apologies. Todd Johnson ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 3:29 PM I just tried to get into the trailer sailor website (www.trailersailor.com) and got a "Site no longer active". Anybody know what's up? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 15 Sep 2001 15:58:41 -0400 Steve, The Forespar box is mounted in the cockpit back rest. It is mounted so that the Forespar tiller extension is at right angles to the tiller, and roughly parallel to the cockpit seat. See my response to Tom & Jane regarding modification of the Forespar tiller extension fitting itself to achieve greater angular freedom. I'm very happy with the present installation, and find that if I set it up and lock the tiller extension in the Forespar box, the M15 will hold course very nicely. Slight changes in course are made by unlocking the extension and changing it's length in small increments. This allows you to go below to get a sandwich or a beer; find the radio or GPS, or get a sweater! I like it very much. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller length Date: 15 Sep 2001 15:50:42 -0400 Tom & Jane My old tiller was 41 inches long. The replacement that Bob Eeg sent me is about 6 inches shorter. Because I had the Forespar tiller extension box mounted in the side of the cockpit so that the tiller extension was at right angles to the old tiller, I wanted to maintain the same geometry with the new one. On the old tiller, I had located the Forespar tiller fitting about 6 inches back from the forward end of the tiller, so that I would have an unencumbered handhold area. The new tiller being shorter forced me to put the Forespar fitting right in the area where I hold the tiller. That was why I very carefully countersunk the fitting into the tiller so that my normal hand grip area was smooth and pleasant to the touch. ....an aside: the diameter of the end of your tiller is critical to your having a comfortable pleasant grip; or are you trying to hold on to a baseball bat? If you find that the tiller hand hold diameter is too big, cut it down to a comfortable size. If you don't like it as it is, .....modify it! .....incidentally, the same applies to things like chef's knives. Cut the handles down to make them comfortable for your use. They might have been designed for gorilla's hands, but if your hands are smaller, .....modify it! After all, tennis rackets come in varying grip sizes to fit various size hands. Why doesn't anyone else think that this is a good idea? Modify it to suite your likes. If you have second thoughts at a later date, you can always build a new one! Connie PS. I also modified the Forespar tiller extension for greater angular motion. The tiller extensionfitting as delivered has a flat face next to the pin that goes into the fitting. This restricts the angle through which you can move the extension. When I discovered that, I grabbed my hack saw, and carefully removed about 15 degrees of material on both sides of the fitting. Check the available extension movement in the boat and you'll immediately see where to remove material to increase the operating angle. It's a great improvement! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howard A Subject: Re: M_Boats: Turnbuckles Date: 15 Sep 2001 16:47:41 -0500 I think I was trying to describe the same thing (and not doing a very good job of it). In the catalogs, what you appear to be talking about are called jaw and swage turnbuckles, in which the swage end attaches to the stay or shroud and thus becomes an extension of it, with the jaw or toggle on the bottom. My stays and shrouds all have eyes swaged to the stay, and jaw and jaw turnbuckles that affix to the eyes. More moving parts and probably not as strong. I can see why you would prefer the other setup. Thanks. Bob wrote: > Howard > > The stay has a threaded rod swaged on the end. > > The turnbuckle simply screws onto this threaded rod and the > business end has a toggle that attaches to the chainplate. > > Each end has opposing threads; one clockwise the other counter- > clockwise. After attaching you can simply turn the barrel of the > turnbuckle to adjust it tighter or looser. > > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Olson Subject: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment Date: 15 Sep 2001 17:10:00 -0700 Hi sailors. I certainly don't want to start another angry thread. And I have no intention of making this a habit. But neither will I agree to censor my opinions during this critical time. If you don't like the nature of this message, than feel free to delete it. I do think that being part of a community of people with similar interests can be very healing. And I find being expressive, even if it's not a popular sentiment, makes me feel alot better. Remember, this is America. Peace, Bob Olson M-15 #296 "Picollo" ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Received: 9/15/01 4:44 PM Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment 9/15/01 Dear Friends, Our second day on the road back to New York City... I am awakened by the sounds of the "Star Spangled Banner" coming from the lobby of the hotel where we have spent the night in Flagstaff. The memorial service has begun at the National Cathedral in Washington, DC, and it is on the TV in the lobby. I go down to check it out. A group of older black women are standing there watching it, tears in their eyes. I am reminded by a sign we saw on the way into town on a Hopi Indian store: "America Land of the Free Home of the Brave." You probably can't find two groups more denied the American Dream than these two and yet they grieve like everyone else over the attack in New York. Passing through the Indian reservations of Arizona and New Mexico you are struck by the abject poverty of these places, and reminded of the 500 years of state-sponsored terrorism against these people, a virtual genocide. How many millions were killed by the American settlers and soldiers? I can't remember now. But the living results are brutally evident in the shacks and trailers along old Route 66. My wife and I make our way into town and find a Catholic church, San Francisco de Asis, where a service is being held to honor the dead. The church itself is remarkable for its matriarchal images, with a large mural of Mary and her mother and her family above the altar, and then a statue of her in place of the usual crucified Jesus. We stand, as there is no room to sit. Minutes go by and the service does not begin. The priest comes and takes a seat in the 7th row pew as if he were just another mourner. After a long while, someone gets up from her pew and reads from the bible -- but the reading is not the one about vengeance and bloodshed. Rather, it's about beating our swords into plowshares. Oops, off message! We leave the church and both of us are filled with an overwhelming despair. We still have not heard from friends in Manhattan or from our friend Barbara who works at the Pentagon. We pass by a store -- "Guns and Groceries," the sign proclaims. On the way out of town, the cell phone rings. It is Barbara and her husband Sam calling from outside the Pentagon. She tells me she is OK and that there is a large airplane wheel sticking out of the side of the building where she works as a clerical. The morning of the crash she was late for work because she was taking Sam to the airport. I start to cry again. She says thanks and "Don't worry I'm OK," and I hear Sam cracking in the background "That's debatable" and they both laugh. I pull off the road in Winslow, Arizona, and tell Kathleen I want to get a picture of her on a corner. She doesn't know why and, knowing her intense dislike of The Eagles, I tell her it's a song by Jackson Browne (which is technically true; he co-wrote it). She obliges, but when she reads this I'll be in big trouble. I continue to be amazed at the large number of people -- both on the radio and those we run into -- who are completely opposed to some half-cocked military response to what has happened. No matter what the media tells you or shows you, I am convinced there is a majority of Americans who, though they want justice and want to be protected from further attacks, do not want George W. Bush to start sounding like Dr. Strangelove. Speaking of Strangelove, this past week began with one of the most powerful pieces on "60 Minutes" in a long time. They laid it all out: How the United States -- and specifically Henry Kissinger -- plotted to overthrow the democratically-elected president of Chile in the early 1970s. The plot succeeded, President Allende was assassinated, and thousands of other Chileans were brutally tortured and murdered. Today, many within the new government of Chile would like to put Kissinger on trial for these acts of terrorism. Do you think the United States will give him up? Well, that story was forgotten, 48 hours later, as quickly as it had been forgotten 30 years ago. A few of you have written me to say, Please, Mike, don't talk about this stuff, at least not right now. We need to bury the dead. I agree. And I apologize to any who have taken offense. No one wants to talk about politics right now -- except our installed leaders in Washington. Trust me, they are talking politics night and day, and those discussions involve sending our kids off to fight some invisible enemy and to indiscriminately bomb Afghans or whoever they think will make us Americans feel good. I feel I have a responsibility as one of those Americans who doesn't feel good right now to speak out and say what needs to be said: That we, the United States of America, are culpable in committing so many acts of terror and bloodshed that we had better get a clue about the culture of violence in which we have been active participants. I know it's a hard thing to hear right now, but if I and others don't say it, I fear we will soon be in a war that will do NOTHING to protect us from the next terrorist attack. I have received more emails this week than ever before -- about a thousand every four hours. Ninety percent of them are from people who also refuse to be drawn into some form of senseless bloodletting, and who agree that we need to find the right way to bring those to justice who committed these acts. I have been touched by many of your comments and am so sorry I cannot respond to them while I am on the road. But I am sharing your feelings with those I meet (and, I have to say again, it is a Godsend to have an invention like the Internet where I can travel across the country like this and be connected to so many thousands of other Americans =85and to so many foreigners who grieve for us and fear for what our leaders may do). We pass over the Continental Divide and Rush Limbaugh babbles on about whom we must bomb. He signs off, and I am sure he is on his way down to the nearest recruiting station to sign up -- for surely he would not expect your son or daughter to risk their lives for freedom while he just sits back and enjoys his new half-billion dollar contract. Coming into Albuquerque, Kathleen is leafing through the Frommer's travel guide for a place to spend the night. She finds what seems like a nice spot near the White Sands national park, but then reads this passage: "Occasionally the road to the hotel is closed for nearby missile tests." Yes, welcome to New Mexico, the "Land of Enchantment," just one big testing ground brought to you by the originators of every single weapon of mass destruction known to man. We opt for the downtown Hyatt. The hotel is like a ghost town. "Every convention cancelled," the lady at the counter tells us. I ask the bellman how many people are actually here tonight. "9.9 percent occupancy," he tells me. Hmmm. Why not just say 10%? I guess that would be asking for too much optimism on a night like this... I will write again when we get to our next stop, Oklahoma City. Yours, Michael Moore mmflint@aol.com www.michaelmoore.com PS. Three days ago, I learned from someone at ABC News that ABC had videotape -- an angle of the second plane crashing into the tower -- that showed an F-16 fighter jet trailing the plane at a distance. I have not shared this with you as I had not personally witnessed that tape myself and did not want to contribute to all the unsubstantiated rumors. It just came across on the TV that the government admitted they did dispatch fighter jets when they knew the planes were off course. From this point, I will pass on any censored information to those of you in the mainstream media who are being blocked from reporting. Is it becoming more clear now that the plane that went down in Pennsylvania was shot down to prevent it from attacking its destination? The truth is harrowing, unbearable -- but it must be told to us. A free people cannot make an informed decision if they are kept in the dark. Let's hear ALL the truth NOW. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Smitty" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment Date: 15 Sep 2001 18:12:07 -0500 Bob, I for one, am glad you posted "Mike's Message". It is very interesting. The gov. should take care not to expose our troops to a stupid, expensive war (not that it would be the first time). You might say we must be careful not to kill the grass to get rid of the weeds. Unlike Sadam's army troops these people will not lay down their arms and give up. These people are clever, ruthless, well educated and driven by religious zeal. Smitty US-842 Sail Hard or Stay on the Beach ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 7:10 PM Enchantment Hi sailors. I certainly don't want to start another angry thread. And I have no intention of making this a habit. But neither will I agree to censor my opinions during this critical time. If you don't like the nature of this message, than feel free to delete it. I do think that being part of a community of people with similar interests can be very healing. And I find being expressive, even if it's not a popular sentiment, makes me feel alot better. Remember, this is America. Peace, Bob Olson M-15 #296 "Picollo" ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Received: 9/15/01 4:44 PM Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment 9/15/01 Dear Friends, Our second day on the road back to New York City... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment Date: 15 Sep 2001 23:02:19 EDT --part1_105.95906ba.28d5703b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/16/2001 12:09:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!, bobo4u@earthlink.net writes: > Is it becoming more clear now that the plane that went down in > Pennsylvania > was shot down to prevent it from attacking its destination? > > If this were true, There wouldn't be such a large crater. Air to air missiles don't leave large pieces to fall. I don't disagree with some of your concepts, but as you said, now is not the time. Sandy --part1_105.95906ba.28d5703b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/16/2001 12:09:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!, bobo4u@earthlink.net writes:


Is it becoming more clear now that the plane that went down in
Pennsylvania
was shot down to prevent it from attacking its destination?



If this were true, There wouldn't be such a large crater. Air to air missiles don't leave large pieces to fall. I don't disagree with some of your concepts, but as you said, now is not the time.

Sandy --part1_105.95906ba.28d5703b_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Smitty" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment Date: 15 Sep 2001 20:08:03 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011C_01C13E22.206CDCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems to me that the small crater and no large pieces on the ground = and pieces found 6 miles away all point to an explosion or a hit from a = weapon. Although the concept of a pilot having to shoot down a hijacked = airliner is gruesome, it is not impossible were it apparent that it was = headed for the white house. A hit form an AIM-9 would not necessarily = destroy a large aircraft if it simply took off an engine. It would go to = the hot spot. It could be years before we know what happened, when it is = declassified. I don't think Oswald killed Kennedy for that matter, but = many things will never be known publicly. S US-842 Sail Hard or Stay on the Beach=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sandyal55@aol.com=20 To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:02 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land = of Enchantment In a message dated 09/16/2001 12:09:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!, = bobo4u@earthlink.net writes:=20 Is it becoming more clear now that the plane that went down in=20 Pennsylvania=20 was shot down to prevent it from attacking its destination?=20 If this were true, There wouldn't be such a large crater. Air to air = missiles don't leave large pieces to fall. I don't disagree with some of = your concepts, but as you said, now is not the time.=20 Sandy=20 ------=_NextPart_000_011C_01C13E22.206CDCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It seems to me that the small crater = and no large=20 pieces on the ground and pieces found 6 miles away all point to an = explosion or=20 a hit from a weapon. Although the concept of a pilot having to shoot = down a=20 hijacked airliner is gruesome, it is not impossible were it apparent = that it was=20 headed for the white house. A hit form an AIM-9 would not necessarily = destroy a=20 large aircraft if it simply took off an engine. It would go to the hot = spot. It=20 could be years before we know what happened, when it is declassified. I = don't=20 think Oswald killed Kennedy for that matter, but many things will never = be known=20 publicly.
   S
 US-842
   Sail Hard = or
     =20 Stay on the Beach=20
           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =    =20
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Sandyal55@aol.com
To: montgomery_boats@list= s.xmission.com=20
Sent: Saturday, September 15, = 2001 10:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; = [Mike's=20 Message] Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment

In a = message dated=20 09/16/2001 12:09:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!, bobo4u@earthlink.net writes:=20


Is it becoming more clear now that the plane that went = down in=20
Pennsylvania
was shot down to prevent it from attacking its=20 destination?



If this were true, There = wouldn't be=20 such a large crater. Air to air missiles don't leave large pieces to = fall. I=20 don't disagree with some of your concepts, but as you said, now is not = the=20 time.

Sandy ------=_NextPart_000_011C_01C13E22.206CDCA0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Smitty" Subject: M_Boats: Sorry about the last post. Date: 15 Sep 2001 20:27:52 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012E_01C13E24.E4F9B780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry about the last post. It was supposed to be a private = conversation concerning the post and was not intended for the list. Smitty US-842 Sail Hard or Stay on the Beach=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_012E_01C13E24.E4F9B780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Sorry about the = last post. It=20 was supposed to be a private conversation concerning the post and was = not=20 intended for the list.
     =20 Smitty
 US-842
   Sail = Hard=20 or
      Stay on the Beach=20
           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =    =20
------=_NextPart_000_012E_01C13E24.E4F9B780-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: test Date: 15 Sep 2001 22:00:02 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C13E31.C5616AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am trying out a new notebook computer. This is a test to see if I got = the internet program set up correctly. Sorry... Please delete this = junk mail. Joe Kidd ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C13E31.C5616AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am trying out a new notebook = computer.  This is a test to see if I got the internet program set = up=20 correctly.  Sorry...  Please delete this junk = mail.
 
    Joe=20 Kidd
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C13E31.C5616AA0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TOMMYVAL@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment Date: 16 Sep 2001 08:45:56 EDT --part1_22.1be4f94b.28d5f904_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Im just curious, who is Michael Moore ? Just wondering Thx Gary --part1_22.1be4f94b.28d5f904_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Im just curious, who is Michael Moore ?   Just wondering

Thx

Gary --part1_22.1be4f94b.28d5f904_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Olson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land of Enchantment Date: 16 Sep 2001 11:08:53 -0700 Michael Moore is best known for his films, "Roger and Me", and "The Big One" -- satires on corporate America. He also produced the short-running television shows "TV Nation" (hilarious) and "The Awful Truth". Essentualy, he's a humourist who pokes fun at the hypocrisy in American culture. Kind of a modern day Mark Twain. http://www.michaelmoore.com/ Bob Olson M-15 #296 "Piccolo" >Im just curious, who is Michael Moore ? Just wondering > >Thx > >Gary > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve R. Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extention Date: 16 Sep 2001 12:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Thanks Connie steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY --- Conbert H Benneck > wrote: >Steve, > >The Forespar box is mounted in the cockpit back rest. It is mounted so >that the Forespar tiller extension is at right angles to the tiller, and >roughly parallel to the cockpit seat. > >See my response to Tom & Jane regarding modification of the Forespar >tiller extension fitting itself to achieve greater angular freedom. > >I'm very happy with the present installation, and find that if I set it >up and lock the tiller extension in the Forespar box, the M15 will hold >course very nicely. Slight changes in course are made by unlocking the >extension and changing it's length in small increments. > >This allows you to go below to get a sandwich or a beer; find the radio >or GPS, or get a sweater! I like it very much. > >Connie >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. _____________________________________________________________ Get your FREE saabnet.com email address - http://webmail.saabnet.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: M_Boats: Announcing the New MSOG Chat Room! Maybe. Please test Date: 16 Sep 2001 23:00:31 -0400 --=====================_10269821==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Also, here's a web page that seems to offer chat rooms. My old >computer can't open them apparently, but maybe everyone else >would be able to: http://www.pbase.com > >Tod Thanks once again to Tod, I got looking for a chat room and found a free one, though not the one above (I think that one was just for their stuff). At any rate, I think I may actually have it working. Would sure appreciate someone testing it to see if you can get on. The link is listed on the MSOG site under "Other Resources", or bookmark it after linking to http://msog.org/msogchat/msogchat.htm here. I'll be in there for the next ten minutes or so. Otherwise, think about going in Monday night at 9 Eastern. Please let me know if it works or if I missed any helpful suggestions. If it works fine, e-mail the list. If it doesn't, e-mail me. Makes me look good that way. I'm behind; I haven't been on-line for a while as I got addicted to flyfishing for smallmouth in the New River everyday this summer and my fingers have finally unwrinkled enough to type again. As it gets cooler, I hope to catch up on the web site, including getting Tod's story up soon. Also looking forward to How-To posts from your summer work. After the fall sailing season, of course. Tod, if you didn't buy anything for Buscabrisas for a week, you could upgrade your computer (to a Cray?) ;) Hope you can connect to this one. Again, thanks for re-initiating the chat idea. Thanks, Doug Doug King M-17 #404 "Vixen" Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org Email: mailto:msog@msog.org --=====================_10269821==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>Also, here's a web page that seems to offer chat rooms.  My old
>computer can't open them apparently, but maybe everyone else
>would be able to:  http://www.pbase.com
>
>Tod

Thanks once again to Tod, I got looking for a chat room and found a free one, though not the one above (I think that one was just for their stuff).

At any rate, I think I may actually have it working. Would sure appreciate someone testing it to see if you can get on. The link is listed on the MSOG site under "Other Resources", or bookmark it after linking to http://msog.org/msogchat/msogchat.htm here. I'll be in there for the next ten minutes or so. Otherwise, think about going in Monday night at 9 Eastern.

Please let me know if it works or if I missed any helpful suggestions. If it works fine, e-mail the list. If it doesn't, e-mail me. Makes me look good that way.

I'm behind; I haven't been on-line for a while as I got addicted to flyfishing for smallmouth in the New River everyday this summer and my fingers have finally unwrinkled enough to type again. As it gets cooler, I hope to catch up on the web site, including getting Tod's story up soon. Also looking forward to How-To posts from your summer work. After the fall sailing season, of course.

Tod, if you didn't buy anything for Buscabrisas for a week, you could upgrade your computer (to a Cray?) ;) Hope you can connect to this one. Again, thanks for re-initiating the chat idea.

Thanks,

Doug

------------------------------------------
Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"

Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org
Email: mailto:msog@msog.org --=====================_10269821==_.ALT-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: M_Boats: Additional info for Chat room? Date: 16 Sep 2001 23:17:56 -0400 --=====================_11315080==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This information came up all filled in for me, but don't know if it's because I created the room. You may need to know this the first time. On the little logon screen that comes up, you may need to know the following (just the first time): Chat Server: irc.centralchat.net Room: #montgomery First line is Nickname, enter whatever name you want to be known by in the chat room. Doug aka msoggy Doug King M-17 #404 "Vixen" Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org Email: mailto:msog@msog.org --=====================_11315080==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
This information came up all filled in for me, but don't know if it's because I created the room. You may need to know this the first time.

On the little logon screen that comes up, you may need to know the following (just the first time):

Chat Server: irc.centralchat.net
Room: #montgomery

First line is Nickname, enter whatever name you want to be known by in the chat room.

Doug aka msoggy

------------------------------------------
Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"

Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org
Email: mailto:msog@msog.org --=====================_11315080==_.ALT-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roberta & Mark Dvorscak" Subject: M_Boats: Re: chat room Date: 16 Sep 2001 21:36:42 -0700 Doug, Seemed to work fine (although I was alone). Chat server info was all filled in when the screen came up. Thanks again for the good work. By the way, surgery on my hand seemed to go well. I can only use my left hand to type for now though! Everything takes just a little bit longer! Mark Dvorscak M17 #400 GRACE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: RE: M_Boats: Tiller length Date: 17 Sep 2001 16:16:29 -0700 Thanks for the advice Connie. I'm quite sure the tiller on Chukar is original equipment, and probably 40-some inches in length. I'll be practicing my woodworking skills this winter... Tom Smith LineSoft Corporation Phone: 509-928-1707 ext. 248 Fax: 509-928-2581 E-mail: tsmith@linesoft.com Website: www.linesoft.com -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 12:51 PM Tom & Jane My old tiller was 41 inches long. The replacement that Bob Eeg sent me is about 6 inches shorter. Because I had the Forespar tiller extension box mounted in the side of the cockpit so that the tiller extension was at right angles to the old tiller, I wanted to maintain the same geometry with the new one. On the old tiller, I had located the Forespar tiller fitting about 6 inches back from the forward end of the tiller, so that I would have an unencumbered handhold area. The new tiller being shorter forced me to put the Forespar fitting right in the area where I hold the tiller. That was why I very carefully countersunk the fitting into the tiller so that my normal hand grip area was smooth and pleasant to the touch. ....an aside: the diameter of the end of your tiller is critical to your having a comfortable pleasant grip; or are you trying to hold on to a baseball bat? If you find that the tiller hand hold diameter is too big, cut it down to a comfortable size. If you don't like it as it is, .....modify it! .....incidentally, the same applies to things like chef's knives. Cut the handles down to make them comfortable for your use. They might have been designed for gorilla's hands, but if your hands are smaller, .....modify it! After all, tennis rackets come in varying grip sizes to fit various size hands. Why doesn't anyone else think that this is a good idea? Modify it to suite your likes. If you have second thoughts at a later date, you can always build a new one! Connie PS. I also modified the Forespar tiller extension for greater angular motion. The tiller extensionfitting as delivered has a flat face next to the pin that goes into the fitting. This restricts the angle through which you can move the extension. When I discovered that, I grabbed my hack saw, and carefully removed about 15 degrees of material on both sides of the fitting. Check the available extension movement in the boat and you'll immediately see where to remove material to increase the operating angle. It's a great improvement! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Conbert H Benneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: wooden boat festival Date: 17 Sep 2001 21:15:15 -0400 Tod, We were sailing in the Adriatic up the Yugoslavian coast, among all the islands when we had a visit from some porpoises too. The water was very clear, and it was an unforgettable sight. About 6 of them playing in our bow wave, as our children hung in the bow pulpit watching the display in awe. They stayed with us for a few minutes, but then, since we were probably too slow for fun and games, took off in another direction. But it was a magical encounter. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Riker" Subject: RE: M_Boats: weekend report: 9/15,16/2001 Date: 17 Sep 2001 22:07:07 -0400 Tod (et al) Just had a short chat with Howard in the new chat room. Sorry I cut out so early. I had to stop in Cleveland, and hate to get home too late on Sunday. I did have a nice little sail, though. I had never really cruised the city shore, so I did that on the way in. I wasn't too sorry to take out, as the power boaters were starting to head out in numbers. You should have said something about your stove having gone AWOL. I could have loaned you mine, or shared dinner, or whatever. I had another beer in a pilsner glass and warm pasta for dinner, and then scrambled eggs and toast for breakfast. But, while you were sleeping in your cozy cabin, I had a long walk in the lake around 1 am! I awoke and the motion of the boat didn't feel quite right. There were hardly more than catspaws, but the boat seemed strangely solid. The wind had switched onshore, and I was aground. Time for a swim! Or a walk, really. As I got ready, I heard a splash. I had stupidly (middle of the night thing to do) put the to hatch board on top of the hatch. When I moved around, it slipped off right into the lake. Didn't even clunk on the side deck - lucky I heard the splash. Oh, well. No wind, shallow water, I'll just go get it. And because the wind had switched onshore, it would eventually end up on the point. But I couldn't find it! I stomped and splashed around for 10 or 15 minutes, mostly in a downwind direction. The boat wasn't going anywhere, so I had a good starting point. No hatchboard! Time to get scientific. I filled a plastic food container almost full of water and put it in the water where the hatchboard went in. Then I searched some more while waiting to see where the container went. Fortunately it had a bright red lid, and by then I had gotten out my bright light. When the container was 10-15' from the boat, I had a good handle on the direction and set out. I finally found it, already on shore. The little container hadn't moved nearly as far or fast as the flat hatchboard! Still can't figure that one out. I picked up the anchor and carried it out until the water was beginning to chill my previously warm parts, put it down and went back to bed. Never got warm again, though. For those who weren't there, the water temp was in the mid-60's, and the air somewhat cooler. I guess I was in the water for 30 minutes or so. The sun sure felt nice in the morning. Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug King Subject: M_Boats: Tod's Story now on MSOG Date: 20 Sep 2001 04:21:56 -0400 --=====================_6003200==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You can read Tod's odyssey on the MSOG web site at: http://msog.org/trippics/tod_lakehuron_01/lake_huron.htm Reports seem to indicate that the Momtgomery Chat Room is working fine. It's listed under "Other Resources" on the MSOG web site top menu (http://msog.org/). Enjoy both. Doug Doug King M-17 #404 "Vixen" Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org Email: mailto:msog@msog.org --=====================_6003200==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
You can read Tod's odyssey on the MSOG web site at:

Reports seem to indicate that the Momtgomery Chat Room is working fine. It's listed under "Other Resources" on the MSOG web site top menu (http://msog.org/).

Enjoy both.

Doug

------------------------------------------
Doug King
M-17 #404 "Vixen"

Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org
Email: mailto:msog@msog.org --=====================_6003200==_.ALT-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ian T. Larson" Subject: M_Boats: 15 vs 17 Date: 22 Sep 2001 16:46:05 -0500 I own a Montgomery 15, and am thinking of possibly up sizing to a 17. I would be doing this to get sitting headroom, the ability to cook inside the cabin, and a smoother ride in bouncy conditions- both sailing and at anchor. Concerns would be possible increased difficulty of launching the larger boat, particularly the rigging time and draft concerns on marginal ramps. Does anyone have experience with both boats? Is this change worth making? - Thanks Ian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: OT; [Mike's Message] Somewhere in the Land Date: 23 Sep 2001 22:57:55 -0400 >>If this were true, There wouldn't be such a large crater. Air to air missiles = don't leave large pieces to fall. I don't disagree with some of your = concepts, but as you said, now is not the time. << Hi Sandy.. I guess it depends on the missle that's used. If it's a Sidewinder, it'l= l attack the hot engine and not the body of the plane, causing the plane to= spin in. Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Modeelee@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 17 for sale. Date: 23 Sep 2001 23:12:14 EDT Hello listmembers, My 1977 Montgomery 17 is for sale. Details of sale can be obtained by calling me at (562) 693-4312. E-Mail address is Modeelee@aol.com. My boat is listed on the Montgomery Owners web site also. Lee Martel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Miscellaneous stuff Date: 29 Sep 2001 10:19:36 -0700 (PDT) The October Crusing magazine I bought while stuck at the Airport carry's N'Sea's adds for M15s and M17's. They look nice. They also listed a site to track Lin and Larry Pardey's current cruise to where ever they feel like. It's http://www.paracay.com then select Lin and Larry Pardey and click on where are Lin and Larry? I was suppose to be cruising the Chesapeak right now but the small craft advisories are up with 28 kt gusts at Thomas point light :( Since my ISP is back up after being down for almost 10 days due to the NIMDA virus maybee I'll try the chat room about 9 pm est tonight :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TOMMYVAL@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Miscellaneous stuff Date: 29 Sep 2001 18:11:35 EDT --part1_16d.1a89056.28e7a117_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug, Thx for the Pardey site, it's very interesting. Looks like we made the right decision, Im sure the bay is a mess Gary --part1_16d.1a89056.28e7a117_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug,

Thx for the Pardey site, it's very interesting. Looks like we made the right decision,
Im sure the bay is a mess

Gary --part1_16d.1a89056.28e7a117_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Miscellaneous stuff Date: 29 Sep 2001 18:27:22 EDT In a message dated 09/29/2001 3:12:10 PM US Mountain Standard Time, TOMMYVAL@aol.com writes: << Doug, Thx for the Pardey site, it's very interesting. >> Ditto.......... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DDAYSTROM@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Miscellaneous stuff Date: 29 Sep 2001 19:24:33 EDT In a message dated 9/29/01 10:20:02 AM, doug_kelch@yahoo.com writes: << I was suppose to be cruising the Chesapeak right now but the small craft advisories are up with 28 kt gusts at Thomas point light :( >> Doug, It was also very windy on Friday, 9/28. I never made it out of the West River! Decided to anchor up the Rhode river and have lunch with a friend. It gave me a chance to test my Claw anchor(Bruce copy). I'm going to use it as my working anchor. Later, a guy I met at Casa Rio Marina showed up with his 36' wooden sailboat. We rafted up and had a tour of the boat. This boat has quite a history. The previous owners sailed it from Greece to the US. Their story is in a 1999 Cruising World article. - al williams ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rotortom@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Miscellaneous stuff Date: 30 Sep 2001 12:31:58 EDT --part1_133.25ff22c.28e8a2fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al, I bought a claw for my boat last year and never used it. What size did you buy, and how did it work? Thanks. Tom Woodworth M-17 "Wild Hare" #330 --part1_133.25ff22c.28e8a2fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al, I bought a claw for my boat last year and never used it. What size did you buy, and how did it work? Thanks.   
Tom Woodworth      
M-17 "Wild Hare" #330 --part1_133.25ff22c.28e8a2fe_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vincent S. Himsl" Subject: M_Boats: Need Advice Date: 30 Sep 2001 14:54:57 -0700 Hello, We are new to this group (and sailing) and could use some good advice on equipping a brand new M15. We will mostly be sailing on Lake Coeur d'Alene and the Snake River in northern Idaho next spring or sooner depending on weather. We already have a 2hp Honda motor, 2 life jackets, and 2 boat fenders. Now what? Just the basics please. (Also looking for sailing lessons!!) Thanks, Vince and Sharon M15 "Duet" (due date: early Nov 1) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DDAYSTROM@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Miscellaneous stuff Date: 30 Sep 2001 19:44:48 EDT Tom, I bought a 16.5 claw anchor. This was the first time I used it and it worked very well holding the boat in place while the wind was blowing aprox10-15 knots. The bottom was mudddy and it really dug in. I had to really tug on the line to get it on board. I also have a 9lb Danforth that dragged the last two times I used it. I'm not an expert at anchoring so I probably didn't set it correctly. -al williams M17 - "Horizon 320" << Al, I bought a claw for my boat last year and never used it. What size did you buy, and how did it work? Thanks. Tom Woodworth M-17 "Wild Hare" #330 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Riker" Subject: M_Boats: Claw anchor Date: 30 Sep 2001 21:33:57 -0400 Al, I bought an 11 lb claw for my M15 last spring. I've only used it a few times, but like it a lot so far. It digs in fast and securly, and comes clean easily. Bill Riker M-15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Yake Subject: Re: M_Boats: Need Advice Date: 30 Sep 2001 20:59:37 -0700 Hello Vince and Sharon, Welcome to M boating in the Inland Northwest. Yes,there are a few of us in the area. Hopefully we'll have a local rendezvous soon and everybody can get acquainted. I looked into sailing lessons in this area a couple of years ago, and I only found two options. The Sail Loft in Bayview on Lake Pend Oreille offers a full range of certification level courses, but was out of my modest price range. On a much more basic and introductory level, is a course offered occasionally through the Community Colleges of Spokane as an adult evening class. I took this class (taught by "Barnacle Bill" Holcomb) and learned a little, but there is very little on-the-water time. Basically, you have to read everything you can get your hands on, then get out there on the water and flounder around a bit and learn as you go. The stuff you read will make more sense as you gain experience and realize what they were talking about. Good luck and happy sailing, Larry Yake M17, #200 Tullamore ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Need Advice Date: 01 Oct 2001 01:12:00 EDT --part1_29.1b85484c.28e95520_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget the 12V TV and VCR. A nice stereo will help on a chilly Sunday mornings with a hot cup of coffee. --part1_29.1b85484c.28e95520_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget the 12V TV and VCR.  A nice stereo will help on a chilly Sunday mornings with a hot cup of coffee. --part1_29.1b85484c.28e95520_boundary--