From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: 12" radials Date: 08 Aug 1996 18:12:44 -0700 (MST) >"unsigned" wrote: Radials are much better than cross bias tires . Someone >told me i couldnt run radials on my Mont 17 trailer , i did >and got better gas miliage and they ran cooler. > 12" tires are very low cost cause Honda still uses >them >___ >hi, now I remember my ex-Ford Fiesta was on 155-12 Michelin XZX...so one does >not need to change to 13" wheels to get radials > >however, 155-12 are harder to find...does anyone have a mail-order source (and >price) ? > > >Luan _____________________________________________________ Mail order ! 155 X 12 sell for $18 !!! In Tucson AZ , everyone sells 155 X 12 for unbeleiveable low prices !! ______________altavoz@azstarnet.com______________________ _________________altavoz@azstarnet.com____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Diehl Subject: M_Boats: List Archives Date: 08 Aug 1996 20:06:46 -0600 (MDT) Starting today, our list will be archived! There are two ways to retrieve archive files: 1. FTP to ftp.xmission.com and navigate to the pub/lists/montgomery_boats/archive directory. Then ftp the files you want. 2. Send the message index montgomery_boats to majordomo@xmission.com. You will receive a list of archive file names via e-mail. Decide which you want and send the message get montgomery_boats archive/FILENAME to majordomo@xmission.com, replacing FILENAME with the name of the file you want. It will be e-mailed to you. Please note that all administrative commands, such as index, get, unsubscribe, and who are sent to majordomo, not montgomery_boats. This is new to me, but it looks as if messages will be archived on a daily basis, using a filename structure like montgomery_boats.9608. We'll see! I have about a meg of disk space available to me on the xmission machine. Archives will be kept until they exceed my disk quota. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: anastasio@zapcom.net (John Anastasio) Subject: Re: M_Boats: List Archives Date: 08 Aug 1996 19:58:18 -0700 >Starting today, our list will be archived! There are two ways to retrieve >archive files: Thanks Keith! We all appreciate the fine work you've done to put the mailing list and now the archive together. ******************************** John Anastasio M17 # 376 "Harmony" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: 12" tires Date: 09 Aug 1996 11:41:01 EST Hi all, I was told by a tire place or two that car rims were shaped different than car rims (something about the cornering) and you could have some problems. They recommended having someone look at the rims before buying tires. They may have been givng me a big line, for all I know. I opted to go with 13 inch rims even though it meant raising the fenders. There is a lot more tire there to absorb bumps which I always encounter on road construction. Besides that, the bigger tires were needed to make the trailer "nuclear bomb proof" as Jerry M. claimed of the M17 trailers (was he exaggerating a bit here?). The 12" tires really spin at highway speeds (but then I've been passed by people pulling boats with 8" rims (Yikes!) Anyway, I'd talk to a reputable tire man about the rims. Randy P. M23 "Early Light" M15 "Oui-1" M7-11 anonymous ps: I'll try to get the Portsmouth ratings for all the Montgomery's next weekend. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy Graves Subject: M_Boats: RE: Trailer Tires Date: 09 Aug 1996 08:09:45 -0600 Thanks Everyone ! Randy Palmer, Luan, Altavoz, for the tire and wheel = info. I am heading down to the tire store & Sams this morning to see = what I can put together. Great Job Keith on the list and the Archive! I appreciate your work. Randy Graves, Idaho Falls, ID ---------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: RE: Trailer Tires Date: 09 Aug 1996 13:20:42 EST Hi again, I got my wheels (13" white spoked Ranger wheels #1227) at Northern (Minneapolis 1-800-533-5545) for $28 plus S&H. They 12" rims for $24 or plain rims for $17. They do carry a trailer type radial for the 13" rims ($44) but I got Generals at Sam's for about $23 mounted. Good luck, Randy P. ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 9, 1996 8:09 AM Message ID: 01BB85CA.22B From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: "montgomery_boats@xmission.com" Copies: Attach: Subject: M_Boats: RE: Trailer Tires Thanks Everyone ! Randy Palmer, Luan, Altavoz, for the tire and wheel = info. I am heading down to the tire store & Sams this morning to see = what I can put together. Great Job Keith on the list and the Archive! I appreciate your work. Randy Graves, Idaho Falls, ID ---------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KinhLuan Nguyenngoc Subject: M_Boats: news related Date: 09 Aug 1996 11:45:49 Pat Sweeney wrote: > The first 2 M15's are out of the mold and being assembled even now as we type our little EMAILS. The builder himself is so who is this mystery builder ? > When I saw John A's request for relief of newsletter publication, and who is John A, what kind of relief does he need, and last but not least, how do I get a hold of this newsletter (or its backissues) Luan Windsong (15/81-#147) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: news related Date: 09 Aug 1996 15:24:47 EST Luan, Chuck McCoy now owns the M15 and M17 molds and has started in production. He works with Frances Kirkland and her mother, Pat Sweeney, who sell the boats under the name Annapolis Launch and Dinghy Co. Chuck has built American Classic lapstrake dinghies in the Seattle area and was "builder of choice" to take over production of the M's. They are looking at moving building operations to the Annapolis area because the market is there. Jerry M. said he lived on the wrong coast for his boats. The Montgomery Owners Newsletter is produced by John Anastasio (who's on this list server [anastasio@zapcom.net] and really should be tooting his own horn - not me!) :) :) :) Subscription is $15/year for 4 issues. Send him a check to 1000 West Clay St., Ukiah, CA 95482 [Hey John, "my check's in the mail." Did I say it right? Do you have a list of back issues - by subject and availability?] Randy P. ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 9, 1996 11:45 AM Message ID: 9608091912.A From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: montgomery_boats Copies: Attach: Subject: M_Boats: news related Pat Sweeney wrote: > The first 2 M15's are out of the mold and being assembled even now as we type our little EMAILS. The builder himself is so who is this mystery builder ? > When I saw John A's request for relief of newsletter publication, and who is John A, what kind of relief does he need, and last but not least, how do I get a hold of this newsletter (or its backissues) Luan Windsong (15/81-#147) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dick Subject: Re: M_Boats: news related Date: 09 Aug 1996 16:13:01 -0600 Does anyone have the address, snail or E-mail, or phoine number for the noutfit that is building the M-17. I need a new cockpit hatch...the big one that forms part of the port side seat and opens up to the space beneath the cockpit. Part of the nsucker is hollow and mine has cracked on the surface.....I suppose I could glass over it but would rather buy a new one. Any information will be appreciated. Dick Allgire...brinefly@lgcy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy Graves Subject: M_Boats: RE: trailer tires and rims Date: 09 Aug 1996 16:40:25 -0600 Talked today with the manager of a reputable tire store here in town = regarding my continual problems with the stock 12 x 5.4 tires on our = Zeiman M-15 trailer. He was most helpful and knowledgeable. Per his = recommendation I purchased two passenger car 155 SR 15 tires that he = mounted and balanced on the factory 12" spoked rims. The new tires are = noticeably wider and only slightly taller than the old 12 x 5.4. They = look to fit correctly on the rims and mounted easily under the fenders = with significant safe clearance. Although I haven't yet towed our M-15 = with the new setup, I am reasonably assured this will correct my = constant tire failure problems. =20 The tires I purchased are a reasonably good quality steel belted radial, = with a full warranty. The cost was 45.00$ per wheel including mounting, = balancing and tax. =20 Have a good weekend! Randy, Idaho Falls, ID ---------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Diehl Subject: Re: M_Boats: news related Date: 09 Aug 1996 17:07:33 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 09 Aug 1996, Dick wrote: >Does anyone have the address, snail or E-mail, or phoine number for >the outfit that is building the M-17. Here's the info I have: The Montgomery 17 & 23 are back in production and being manufactured by Annapolis Launch & Dinghy Company, phone (410) 216-9644. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy Sommerfeld Subject: M_Boats: Center Board Date: 09 Aug 1996 20:59:49 -0600 (CST) Has anyone experienced being able to raise the center board of the M17,only half way up? It seems like it is catching on the edge of the slot that it goes into when raised. Really frustrating tonight when it happened. Actually had to pull it up on the boat trailer before it would go into the slot. Tried rocking the boat, swimming under to wiggle it, beaching it, nothing else worked. Any suggestions on what I might do., Randy Sommerfeld "No Worries" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: news related Date: 09 Aug 1996 22:20:11 -0400 The builder: Annapolis Launch & Dingly Co. P.0. Box 3478, Annapolis, MD 21403 (410) 216-9644. The found the add in Sailing magazine. Bert (Kokopelli) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Diehl Subject: M_Boats: Archives Date: 09 Aug 1996 21:10:24 -0600 (MDT) After looking at the archive file tonight and thinking about the name of the file, montgomery_boats.9608, I'd say we get one file per month. Remember, if you use the GET command you must preface the file name with the path archive/ Remember too, this is a UNIX system so things are case sensitive and that's a forward slash. It's really much easier to ftp the file from ftp.xmission.com pub/lists/montgomery_boats/archive if you can. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Center Board Date: 09 Aug 1996 22:22:18 -0700 (MST) >Has anyone experienced being able to raise the center board of the M17,only >half way up? It seems like it is catching on the edge of the slot that it >goes into when raised. Really frustrating tonight when it happened. >Actually had to pull it up on the boat trailer before it would go into the >slot. Tried rocking the boat, swimming under to wiggle it, beaching it, >nothing else worked. > >Any suggestions on what I might do., > >Randy Sommerfeld >"No Worries" I know it's a lot of work , but scrape the putty from the hole and pull the pin and service it ! it's been years since i had my 17 tall rig but i had no problems in 6 years. _________________altavoz@azstarnet.com____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: trailer tires and rims Date: 09 Aug 1996 22:22:21 -0700 (MST) >Talked today with the manager of a reputable tire store here in town regarding my continual problems with the stock 12 x 5.4 tires on our Zeiman M-15 trailer. He was most helpful and knowledgeable. Per his recommendation I purchased two passenger car 155 SR 15 tires that he mounted and balanced on the factory 12" spoked rims. The new tires are noticeably wider and only slightly taller than the old 12 x 5.4. They look to fit correctly on the rims and mounted easily under the fenders with significant safe clearance. Although I haven't yet towed our M-15 with the new setup, I am reasonably assured this will correct my constant tire failure problems. > >The tires I purchased are a reasonably good quality steel belted radial, with a full warranty. The cost was 45.00$ per wheel including mounting, balancing and tax. > >Have a good weekend! >Randy, >Idaho Falls, ID > >---------- What good fortune you only paid $45 . In Tucson they cost $18 . Must be the import tariffs ( you do live in a foreign country dont you ?) . BTW most tires are steel belted , but steel belts are actually bad ! Get non steel belt if you can ( 95% of all tires in the US are steel) _________________altavoz@azstarnet.com____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: 12" tires Date: 09 Aug 1996 22:22:27 -0700 (MST) > >Hi all, > >I was told by a tire place or two that car rims were shaped different than >car rims (something about the cornering) and you could have some problems. >They recommended having someone look at the rims before buying tires. They >may have been givng me a big line, for all I know. I opted to go with 13 >inch rims even though it meant raising the fenders. There is a lot more tire >there to absorb bumps which I always encounter on road construction. Besides >that, the bigger tires were needed to make the trailer "nuclear bomb proof" >as Jerry M. claimed of the M17 trailers (was he exaggerating a bit here?). >The 12" tires really spin at highway speeds (but then I've been passed by >people pulling boats with 8" rims (Yikes!) Anyway, I'd talk to a reputable >tire man about the rims. > >Randy P. >M23 "Early Light" >M15 "Oui-1" >M7-11 anonymous > >ps: I'll try to get the Portsmouth ratings for all the Montgomery's next >weekend. > sounds like a tire salesman ( similar to congressman) . 12 X 5.5 or 6 should not be put on a 5" or 6" rim ( it wont stay on) . A 4" works fine. You s/b able to buy tires at $18 . Remember to weld up a crank for the spare so you can crank it down and make a 3 wheel boat trailer ( makes launch/ret easy) _________________altavoz@azstarnet.com____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TKozlik@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: M-23 Hull ID Date: 10 Aug 1996 15:53:43 -0400 It seems that Randy Palmer and I have something in common. We both think that we own the Montgomery 23 with hull # 88! The full number off the back of my boat, JOKEN 2, is MMP230880980 which I decipher to mean Montgomery Marine Products, 23 feet, serial # 88 , manufactured in September of 1980. It seems that Jerry Montgomery was pretty casual about assigning hull ID’s to the M-23. The previous owner told me that I was buying the last boat that was made. I assumed that 88 boats were made. Because of clues I’ve gathered from emails and the newsletter, I’ve come to understand that only 18 - 20 M-23’s were made. I also don't believe that I have the last boat built. The original owner had a 5 digit sail number from some racing organization on the mainsail. When I replaced the sail, I had the number 88 put on it. I guess there could be a problem if Randy Palmer shows up at the same race as myself and we both have sail numbers of 88! Since Randy lives in Wisconsin and I live in Arizona, this is not likely to happen. Tony J. Kozlik M-23 hull #88! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lou Al Chiaramonte/Joe Carillet Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 10 Aug 1996 22:11:02 -0400 Dear Montgomery owners, I am not a Montgomery owner yet, but I am interested in learning more about them. I live in Tampa Fl., and am looking for a microcruiser to sail mostly in the Tampa Bay area where we have lots of shallow water and either light air, no air or it blows like gangbusters. I want to ask for your opinions on how the Montgomery 15 compares to other boats that I am considering. I would like to hear about any experiences with the following boats: West Wight Potter, Compac 16 and Peep Hen. The boat which I choose must be easily launched, rigged and sailed singlehandedly. What is the mast height on the M15? If you did not own a Montgomery 15, what would be your second choice of boats and why? Thanks, Joe Carillet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Barkhuff/Nv." <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Hull Numbers for 23's Date: 11 Aug 1996 10:38:02 EDT Tony I have wondered about that ever since I found a boat with hull number 69 since I also know that there are only 20 of the 23's. why don't you give Tom Van Atta a call at the ships store in Tucson and see if he can shed any light on the mystery. Tom janstrom had hull number 2. A doctor in Tucson has a boat stored in california but I never looked at the hull number, although next time I am there I will make a point of doing so. I do know that mine is correct, and maybe John can see what the numbers of the two boats in Sausalito are, I started a list of all owners I have learned about and have the names and all info I know. It is somewhat simple and incomplete now, but with some more research I hope to make it more complete. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 11 Aug 1996 18:06:04 -0400 Joe, I found that the Potters are very slow. I don't know how they are in a blow. My 15 is fast in light airs, and I've sailed it on San Francisco Bay in winds 25 knots gusting to 30 with a double reefed main and a storm jib. It handled very well. I wouldn't consider buying a Potter. They are simply not any near as well built as the Montgomery 15. I believe the Peep Hen is specifically designed for sheltered waters. I believe the mast on the 15 is 21 feet off the water. When the boat is on it's trailer, the mast overhangs about a foot over the bow and stern. Bert (Kokopelli) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dick Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 12 Aug 1996 08:05:24 -0600 ditto !! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stern@urshan.com Subject: M_Boats: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received Date: 12 Aug 1996 07:25:28 -0700 Hi montgomery_boats, This message has been sent automatically. Thank you for contacting "stern@urshan.com". Due to the massive amounts of e-Mail received daily, your message will probably go unanswered. We have created the Usenet newsgroup: alt.binaries.howard-stern If you do not get this newsgroup, ask your News Administrator to carry it. Howard's FAX # at WXRK (where he does his show) is: (212) 759-5329. We have over 200 megs of Stern Images and Sounds. They are almost all back online. Be sure to pick up a copy of the documentary video "In Howard We Trust" only available from our Web Site: http://www.urshan.com/stern And remember, if you do not get e-Mail from Howard..."It doesn't matter!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: M-23 Hull ID Date: 12 Aug 1996 10:47:28 EST Yikes! There are only 18 - 20 M23's and two have the same number! Tony, my M23, "Early Light," is hull number MMP2300880982. Bob Kuntz, who was the first owner, and who lived in Tempe, AZ at the time, said he had to wait a year or so for Jerry to make his boat. Jerry wanted to make more than one. He said that there were 4 made at the same time, one of which was made with a thin hull for racing. Bob said that as far as he knew, these were the last made but he didn't know the serial numbers of the other boats. If Bob had not brought the boat to Wis. when he moved, there may be two M23's with '88' on them. What color is your hull? My boat is white with black stripe, toerail, windows and sail cover. It has a mahogany interior (finished by the owner). It is possible your boat was the last of the first run... ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 10, 1996 3:53 PM Message ID: 960810155342 From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com Copies: Attach: Subject: M_Boats: M-23 Hull ID It seems that Randy Palmer and I have something in common. We both think that we own the Montgomery 23 with hull # 88! The full number off the back of my boat, JOKEN 2, is MMP230880980 which I decipher to mean Montgomery Marine Products, 23 feet, serial # 88 , manufactured in September of 1980. It seems that Jerry Montgomery was pretty casual about assigning hull IDs to the M-23. The previous owner told me that I was buying the last boat that was made. I assumed that 88 boats were made. Because of clues Ive gathered from emails and the newsletter, Ive come to understand that only 18 - 20 M-23s were made. I also don't believe that I have the last boat built. The original owner had a 5 digit sail number from some racing organization on the mainsail. When I replaced the sail, I had the number 88 put on it. I guess there could be a problem if Randy Palmer shows up at the same race as myself and we both have sail numbers of 88! Since Randy lives in Wisconsin and I live in Arizona, this is not likely to happen. Tony J. Kozlik M-23 hull #88! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: news related Date: 12 Aug 1996 10:53:47 EST The address for Annapolis Launch and Dinghy was just posted. Pat Sweeney's e-mail is: 103157.2027@compuserve.com. She can relay the message to Chuck McCoy. / Randy P. ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 9, 1996 4:13 PM Message ID: 320BB7ED.164 From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com Copies: Attach: Subject: Re: M_Boats: news related Does anyone have the address, snail or E-mail, or phoine number for the noutfit that is building the M-17. I need a new cockpit hatch...the big one that forms part of the port side seat and opens up to the space beneath the cockpit. Part of the nsucker is hollow and mine has cracked on the surface.....I suppose I could glass over it but would rather buy a new one. Any information will be appreciated. Dick Allgire...brinefly@lgcy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Re: M-23 (fwd) Date: 12 Aug 1996 11:07:17 EST Any ideas on the V-birth? If Annapolis L & D make them again, it would be an area of improvement. RP ps: Michael, I had to share this! ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 10, 1996 8:38 PM Message ID: 960810203828 From: SailngStar@aol.com/SMTP To: Randolph I Palmer Copies: Attach: Subject: Re: M-23 (fwd) Randy, Hi were back. Had a real good time and one of the best sails we ever had saturday afternoon. Just enough wind to make it REAL fun but not so much it was work! Charlie Dainials was good too. Any way my 7-11 is a sailing type and I have had it since it was new. I like it a lot even though it is a bit "tippy". I have towed that thing literly for thousands of sea miles! I sold my Flicka because: 1. I cruised on it for 2 yrs. and knew that I would never do off-shore third world cruising on a 20' boat again. 2. It was WAY too much work to rig and sail by myself, not to mention towing it was a nightmare. 3. It was expensive! 4. She was set up for one person, the only sleping area was the V-berth with a a setee doubling as a pilot berth.(the galley was great but no B-room) I am now married and have two kids... 5. It didn't sail to weather for shit!!! Don't get me wrong I loved the boat She was fantastic sailing any where but to weather. The design is as good as the adds proclaim. I weathered one nasty storm- which probly would have sunk the Montomgomery- which included a 180 degree knock down with out major damage. The biggest problem was lack of storage, water and fuel capacity. When one is 30+ days away from a grocery store you discover why people have bigger boats. For coastal stuff that is not a problem. Current plans are to do coastal cruising and the Great Lakes when the kids are gone in another ten yrs or so. I plan to use the Mont. unless I find something better. I really like small traditional boats and i think the 23 is one of the best. It is way stronger than most boats in its size and price range, it is roomy (except for that dang V-berth) and it isn't bad to trailer. Actually I wanted a Mont. 23 originally and my Flica was a compromise. The Mont. sails better to weather and almost as good off the wind (that Flicka was FAST! downwind!) And suprisingly it is almost as well balanced. I have gone on long enough. Hope you had fun in WI It is WAY too cold there for me. Talk to you soon, T. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stern@urshan.com Subject: M_Boats: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received Date: 12 Aug 1996 09:21:21 -0700 Hi montgomery_boats, This message has been sent automatically. Thank you for contacting "stern@urshan.com". Due to the massive amounts of e-Mail received daily, your message will probably go unanswered. We have created the Usenet newsgroup: alt.binaries.howard-stern If you do not get this newsgroup, ask your News Administrator to carry it. Howard's FAX # at WXRK (where he does his show) is: (212) 759-5329. We have over 200 megs of Stern Images and Sounds. They are almost all back online. Be sure to pick up a copy of the documentary video "In Howard We Trust" only available from our Web Site: http://www.urshan.com/stern And remember, if you do not get e-Mail from Howard..."It doesn't matter!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stern@urshan.com Subject: M_Boats: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received Date: 12 Aug 1996 09:21:05 -0700 Hi montgomery_boats, This message has been sent automatically. Thank you for contacting "stern@urshan.com". Due to the massive amounts of e-Mail received daily, your message will probably go unanswered. We have created the Usenet newsgroup: alt.binaries.howard-stern If you do not get this newsgroup, ask your News Administrator to carry it. Howard's FAX # at WXRK (where he does his show) is: (212) 759-5329. We have over 200 megs of Stern Images and Sounds. They are almost all back online. Be sure to pick up a copy of the documentary video "In Howard We Trust" only available from our Web Site: http://www.urshan.com/stern And remember, if you do not get e-Mail from Howard..."It doesn't matter!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RobertB164@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 12 Aug 1996 12:45:43 -0400 Joe, I think the M 15 is one of the best boats around, for me. I can rig, launch, and sail it alone, yet it has room for one or two (crowded) more. I keep it on a trailer in my side yard and haul it to numerous launch ramps around San Francisco bay, giving me a good variety of sails at a very reasonable overhead. I agree with Bert that the M sails well in light air. The self bailing cockpit has enough room for 2, more in light air; the cabin sleeps an intimate two. I have heard that the Montgomery can be capsized, but I think it would take a teenager to do it. In SF bay, it is great fun to sail on the occasional calm day, but I consider its seaworthyness its main attribute. When it really blows, it takes care of me, is very forgiving, and is often the last boat off the pond. The specs I have are: L.O.A. 15'0", L.W.L. 13'3", Beam 6'2", Sail area 122 sq ft, Draft, board up 15", board down 2' 1/2", Weight 750 lbs, Ballast 250 lbs, Centerboard weight 40 lbs (approx), Mast height above waterline 22'3" I do not know much about the three other boats mentioned. I have seen the Potter but never sailed one. The Potter looked poorly made, compared to the Montgomery; it did not give the impression of sturdy seaworthyness you get with the M. I think it sells for about a third of the cost of the Montgomery, and you get what you pay for. My M'82 is in great shape with almost no stress cracks, which I am sure you will not find with a comparable WWP. Is the Peep Hen similar to the Bay Hen? The Bay Hen is a 21' gaff rigged 900 lb from Florida Boat Co. (See Small Boat Journal, No. 16, Nov. 1984, pp36-44). I have no knowledge of the Compac 16. I have not seen another boat in this catagory I would consider buying. When I win the lottery I may buy a 30+ footer, but until then I am sticking with the Montgomery. Good Luck, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stern@urshan.com Subject: M_Boats: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received Date: 12 Aug 1996 09:49:08 -0700 Hi montgomery_boats, This message has been sent automatically. Thank you for contacting "stern@urshan.com". Due to the massive amounts of e-Mail received daily, your message will probably go unanswered. We have created the Usenet newsgroup: alt.binaries.howard-stern If you do not get this newsgroup, ask your News Administrator to carry it. Howard's FAX # at WXRK (where he does his show) is: (212) 759-5329. We have over 200 megs of Stern Images and Sounds. They are almost all back online. Be sure to pick up a copy of the documentary video "In Howard We Trust" only available from our Web Site: http://www.urshan.com/stern And remember, if you do not get e-Mail from Howard..."It doesn't matter!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stern@urshan.com Subject: M_Boats: Your Howard Stern e-Mail has been received Date: 12 Aug 1996 10:09:00 -0700 Hi montgomery_boats, This message has been sent automatically. Thank you for contacting "stern@urshan.com". Due to the massive amounts of e-Mail received daily, your message will probably go unanswered. We have created the Usenet newsgroup: alt.binaries.howard-stern If you do not get this newsgroup, ask your News Administrator to carry it. Howard's FAX # at WXRK (where he does his show) is: (212) 759-5329. We have over 200 megs of Stern Images and Sounds. They are almost all back online. Be sure to pick up a copy of the documentary video "In Howard We Trust" only available from our Web Site: http://www.urshan.com/stern And remember, if you do not get e-Mail from Howard..."It doesn't matter!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Barkhuff/Nv." <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: garbage Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:04:55 EDT OK someone clue me in about the Howard Stern crap that somehow found its way into the otherwise quiet and sedate world of the lapstrake hull crowd. FWIW, I think Howard Stern rates right down there with lawyers on the bottom of the ocean......Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Barkhuff/Nv." <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: hull numbers Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:04:53 EDT It seems that there is one to many 0's in the hull number listed for boat number 88. I read "0088" is that a mistype? My list of owners and locations or boats has 10 boats on it now. I forgot to put Tony K on the list. Sorry Tony......Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: hull numbers Date: 12 Aug 1996 14:49:18 EST Hi Larry, I think that the 0088 was a typo but that's what I had at work. Would you mind sharing the list of M23's you have sometime? Sounds like about half of them are accounted for. You have #1, as I recall. Hey, its warm in Wisconsin! I may have to turn on the A/C. Randy P. ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 12, 1996 3:04 PM Message ID: 960812190453 From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: all Copies: Attach: Subject: M_Boats: hull numbers It seems that there is one to many 0's in the hull number listed for boat number 88. I read "0088" is that a mistype? My list of owners and locations or boats has 10 boats on it now. I forgot to put Tony K on the list. Sorry Tony......Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Diehl Subject: Re: M_Boats: garbage Date: 12 Aug 1996 18:34:53 -0600 (MDT) On 12 Aug 96, "Larry Barkhuff/Nv." <102562.2650@compuserve.com> wrote: >OK someone clue me in about the Howard Stern crap that somehow found its >way into the otherwise quiet and sedate world of the lapstrake hull crowd. >FWIW, I think Howard Stern rates right down there with lawyers on the >bottom of the ocean......Larry > > > One of the joys of mailing lists is the juvenile individuals that raid them, subscribing 20 or 30 bogus addresses or unwilling individuals to the list. This weekend, we were hit with about 50 subscriptions, of which one has proven to be legitimate. The rest are "a joke", Howard's address included. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stern@urshan.com Subject: M_Boats: PLEASE REMOVE FROM LIST! Date: 12 Aug 1996 18:42:52 -0700 Dear List Manager: Someone has maliciously subscribed stern@urshan.com to every mailing list there is (thousands) without my permission. I am getting a zillion e-Mails. Please do not add anything with urshan.com to any list, and remove it if it already there. If you can, please check your headers to find out the originating e-Mail address or Domain, so I can take appropriate action. Please forgive me if this message is a duplicate as it is impossible to keep track. Thank you very much for your prompt attention in this matter. Sydney Urshan _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ SYDNEY URSHAN MUSIC _/ _/ Makers of InterScriptª and KeyDisk TERMINATORª _/ _/ _/ _/ http://www.urshan.com/sum _/ _/ alt.music.midi.keydisk-terminator _/ _/ alt.mac.copy-protect.kdt-terminator _/ _/ For help, e-Mail with HELP in the body._/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Re: M-23 (fwd) In reply to 960810203828 Date: 13 Aug 1996 13:38:44 EST Hi again, T.M., I should take back some of my words of yesterday. I went for a sail last night (single handed) on the M23. The winds were out to the west at around 10 mph, the temperature around 80 degrees with enough haze to give everything a gold/grey cast as the sun went down. I went out on a broad reach and heeled over about 10-15 degrees and moved fast and quietly (except for the lapstake sounds). It was just one of those nights that I would miss if my boat were hours away. It is about a half hour from home on Lake Wissota. So maybe the M23 is a glorified daysailor at present - some days it's worth it! I looked at the V-berth again. I think the saw will come out this winter. I think I will cover the head area with removable cushions (the porta-pottie will have to be lowered and/or the bunk raised a bit). My thought is to have a hinged section over the porta-pottie that could be latched in an upright position like the forward wall is now. That way during the day it would function as a 'stand up head' like it does now. At night, the section would drop and a cushion put on it. To the starboard side I would build a "table" to form a foot well for the quarter bunk there (like under the heaters of the BCC's). This table would support a filler section of the enlarged V-berth. Measuring 6'-6" forward of the mast, I might consider putting in a wall with a vented door (like the Nor'Sea's) for a sail locker. I'll do some more measuring, but if it all works as it looks it might, this wall could also "support" a cleat for a babystay to make the boat into a "cutter." It may sound like lots of work but I don't think it would be too bad - just need to make a commitment to do it. This design keeps the 4 berth layout intact but it does make using the head a commitment (but there isn't that much privacy in the current configuration, anyway). It also leaves the rest of the layout alone (which functions quite well, I think). I you think I'm nuts and/or have a better idea, please let me know. Nuts? OK. If I do do it, I'll send pictures to John A. and he can put them in the Newsletter. Then you can judge for yourself. Happy Sails to you, Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KinhLuan Nguyenngoc Subject: M_Boats: M15 competitors Date: 14 Aug 1996 9:56:07 Joe wrote: > I am not a Montgomery owner yet, but I am interested in learning more about them. hi, I am an owner, but will try to pretend not to be one for the purpose of this post !-) > I live in Tampa Fl., and am looking for a microcruiser to sail mostly in the Tampa Bay area where we have lots of shallow water and either light air, no air or it blows like gangbusters. I have not been to Tampa, but have sailed (twice) in the Miami - Keylargo area on the inland side...pretty smooth waters, not choppy like in the Atlantic > I want to ask for your opinions on how the Montgomery 15 compares to other boats that I am considering. I would like to hear about any experiences with the following boats: West Wight Potter, Compac 16 and Peep Hen. at the time of my buy, the "competitors" for me were the WWP 15 and Siren (?? has been a while) 16...mebbe also the Gloucester 16 > The boat which I choose must be easily launched, rigged and sailed singlehandedly. What is the mast height on the M15? I'm guessing that the mast is around 17 ft long...the previous owner had installed 2 "area lights" plus nav light, plus I only weigh 110 lbs (at best), so stepping the mast for me is still "iffy"...the M15 is stepped "on deck" so I cannot hope for better > If you did not own a Montgomery 15, what would be your second choice of boats and why? I bought used...I doubt one can obtain a trial sail on any *trailered* used boat given that premise, my buy was influenced mainly on fortuitousness (one for sale with the right options) and price...I guess I could have bought any of the other 3 at the right price the WWP 15 has a lot less ballast...however, it too has boasted of Atlantic passages...I would only need to get to Catalina and the Channel islands...I have to say it is the most "utilitarian" looking of the 4 the M15 is the best looking of the bunch...I guess we (here) are all "in love" with lapstrakes (they are also rumoured to shield you more from spray) Luan Windsong 15/81-#147 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lou Al Chiaramonte/Joe Carillet Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 14 Aug 1996 16:54:02 -0400 Mont15@aol.com wrote: > > Joe, I found that the Potters are very slow. I don't know how they are in a > blow. My 15 is fast in light airs, and I've sailed it on San Francisco Bay > in winds 25 knots gusting to 30 with a double reefed main and a storm jib. > It handled very well. > I wouldn't consider buying a Potter. They are simply not any near as well > built as the Montgomery 15. > I believe the Peep Hen is specifically designed for sheltered waters. I > believe the mast on the 15 is 21 feet off the water. When the boat is on > it's trailer, the mast overhangs about a foot over the bow and stern. Bert > (Kokopelli) Bert, Thanks for the response. The M15 sounds very impressive. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 competitors Date: 14 Aug 1996 14:08:39 -0700 (MST) >Joe wrote: > >> I am not a Montgomery owner yet, but I am interested in learning more >about them. > >hi, I am an owner, but will try to pretend not to be one for the purpose of >this post !-) > >> I live in Tampa Fl., and am looking for a microcruiser to sail mostly in >the Tampa Bay area where we have lots of shallow water and either light >air, no air or it blows like gangbusters. > >I have not been to Tampa, but have sailed (twice) in the Miami - Keylargo area >on the inland side...pretty smooth waters, not choppy like in the Atlantic > >> I want to ask for your opinions on how the Montgomery 15 compares to >other boats that I am considering. I would like to hear about any >experiences with the following boats: West Wight Potter, Compac 16 and >Peep Hen. > >at the time of my buy, the "competitors" for me were the WWP 15 and Siren (?? >has been a while) 16...mebbe also the Gloucester 16 > >> The boat which I choose must be easily launched, rigged and sailed >singlehandedly. What is the mast height on the M15? > >I'm guessing that the mast is around 17 ft long...the previous owner had >installed 2 "area lights" plus nav light, plus I only weigh 110 lbs (at best), >so stepping the mast for me is still "iffy"...the M15 is stepped "on deck" so I >cannot hope for better > >> If you did not own a Montgomery 15, what would be your second choice of >boats and why? > >I bought used...I doubt one can obtain a trial sail on any *trailered* used boat > >given that premise, my buy was influenced mainly on fortuitousness (one for >sale with the right options) and price...I guess I could have bought any of the >other 3 at the right price > >the WWP 15 has a lot less ballast...however, it too has boasted of Atlantic >passages...I would only need to get to Catalina and the Channel islands...I >have to say it is the most "utilitarian" looking of the 4 > >the M15 is the best looking of the bunch...I guess we (here) are all "in love" >with lapstrakes (they are also rumoured to shield you more from spray) > > >Luan >Windsong 15/81-#147 > _______________________________________________________________ Lapstrake for sound deadning too. I think Mont is so far ahead of all others it's no contest, i dont care what the price is and im not rich ! I've slept since then, does compac have a copy of Mont' board ? _________________altavoz@azstarnet.com____________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: M15 Reefing Date: 14 Aug 1996 16:28:18 EST Hi Bert, I believe it was you that said that you had two reefing points in your main sail (on Kokopelli?). Did you have the second set put in? I talked to Jerry M_ when we got our boat and he said as it was set up it was capable of sailing in 30 knot winds. Maybe he feels comfortable - and maybe he was talking downwind... We were sailing on Green Bay near the tip of Wisconsin's Door County a week ago with our M15. We were having such a good sail (on a broad reach in maybe 15-20mph winds) that I decided to sail to Gill's Rock. Maybe that was a mistake. The winds started building so we reefed the main for our trip back down the Door Penninsula. We got to Ellison Bay and we were getting crossing waves in the 2 to 3 feet range. As you know, the M15 doesn't have the tonnage to pound through big waves so I had to head off a bit. After a few tacks, we headed into Ellison Bay - maybe not the place to go. We were getting winds of atleast 25mph (probably off the cliffs) so we pulled down the jib. We were still getting over powered and may wife had enough so we motor sailed in the two miles to town. I was a little embarrassed by this - we had a boat come out to check on us (a 16 footer lost its mast earlier in the same area that day). We got into the harbor and some old timers said they thought we were doing really well out there - they had been watching us and thought we did the right thing. They of course had to oogle over the little boat saying things like "I've always heard about how nice the Montgomery's are." One woman said her son came in with their big motor boat and was complaining about the conditions - so I didn't hang my head so low. Question is: How deep is your reef (above the first reef)? At what points, windspeed-wise do you move to the 2nd reef (going to windward and off the wind)? We do have a storm jib but haven't used it. I think a 2nd reef may be in order (either that or I have to quit sailing around Porte des Morts !). Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Reefing Date: 14 Aug 1996 18:35:11 -0400 Randy P., I'll have to measure to see how deep the reef points are. I went sailing with some other 15's which only had one set of reef points. That set was deeper than my original one. I had a sail maker put in the second set. I'll get back to you with the measurements. I've only had the second set of reef points in a short while. I've used them three times with the storm jib in winds of 20 (OR MORE) gusting to 30. The second set certainly works well in 25 gusting to 30. The boat, like any, is fastest and easiest to handle with the right amount of sail. For light airs I just has a genniker made, 110 square feet. I haven't had a chance to use it but once. I'm looking forward to it. It was designed to work in winds of 12 knots and under. Happy sailing. Bert (Kokopelli) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Barkhuff/Nv." <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: reef points Date: 15 Aug 1996 12:02:24 EDT There is a set of reef points in my jib that I have never used. The foot of the jib has a line attached which I have been putting on the snap shackle rather than hooking directly to the sail through the grommet. Would the jib be used with a similar line, thereby setting about a foot or so off the deck and all the reef pints being tied with sail ties? Or should the grommet be attached to the deck level itself? Advice accepted....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: reef points Date: 15 Aug 1996 12:56:49 EST Hi Larry, Is this on your M23? On our M15 the jib is set up with a downhaul (which I really like) and a second line that acts as a downhaul for the reefing point. I did attach a snap shackle to the "reefing line" with the idea I would use it for the control line at the foot of our new cruising spinnaker (we've yet to fly the chute - can't wait). To reef the jib we pull down on this (reefing) line until the reefing grommet is close to the deck, then tighten up on the jib halyard. The sheets have to be raised to the reefing grommets on the leach (this can be done underway if you tie one side before you reef and then jibe and attach the second side). We roll the excess sail and tie it near the leach with a small line I leave attached for this purpose. This method is not quite as simple as having a furler but it does do the job quite well. The first day we sailed the M15 was on Jackson Lake, WY and we sailed under reefed main and jib for about six hours (and we were clipping right along). Randy P. ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 15, 1996 12:02 PM Message ID: 960815160224 From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: all Copies: Attach: Subject: M_Boats: reef points There is a set of reef points in my jib that I have never used. The foot of the jib has a line attached which I have been putting on the snap shackle rather than hooking directly to the sail through the grommet. Would the jib be used with a similar line, thereby setting about a foot or so off the deck and all the reef pints being tied with sail ties? Or should the grommet be attached to the deck level itself? Advice accepted....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: reef points Date: 15 Aug 1996 19:36:41 -0400 Attach it at deck level. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: reef points Date: 15 Aug 1996 19:39:36 -0400 Larry's ideas works best. That is exactly what I've used. You can hove to in order to tie the reef points after pulling the line and changing your sheets. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: anastasio@zapcom.net (John Anastasio) Subject: M_Boats: Changes in newsletter Date: 15 Aug 1996 17:53:42 -0700 Hello everybody, This is to announce that Terry Schwarze, an M17 owner from Winona, MN, has agreed to take over the reigns of the Montgomery Owners Newsletter starting October 1. I will be putting out my final issue and the last issue of 1996 at the end of September. Since the next issue is already almost full (except for want-to-buy and want-to-sell, etc.) future articles, pictures, etc. should be sent directly to him. The next issue will contain an article on the "World Cruiser M17" and one on the M15 that sailed to Hawaii. I will be taking subscriptions until Oct. 1, after that money should be sent to Terry. We are up to 73 paid, with an owner's list of about 125. Terry can be reached at: schwarze@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU or P.O. Box 1091 Winona, MN 55987 or (507) 452-7287 Thanks! John Anastasio anastasio@zapcom.net M17 #376 "Harmony" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Subject: Re: M_Boats: Changes in newsletter Date: 15 Aug 1996 17:57:13 -0700 John Anastasio wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > This is to announce that Terry Schwarze, an M17 owner from Winona, MN, > has agreed to take over the reigns of the Montgomery Owners Newsletter > starting October 1.[snip] > Thanks! > > John Anastasio > anastasio@zapcom.net > M17 #376 "Harmony" THANK YOU John!!! The MON is a really incredible resource, and I really appreciate all the work you did puting it together. -- townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Changes in newsletter Date: 15 Aug 1996 21:40:57 -0400 John, I'm looking for a M23 and would like to advertise for one in the next newsletter. What do I need to do? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Looking for a 23 Date: 15 Aug 1996 21:46:15 -0400 John, I'm looking for a M23, and would like to put a notice in the next newsletter about it. Is it too late to submit a notice? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Changes in newsletter Date: 16 Aug 1996 12:04:11 -0400 John, thanks for all of your work on the news letter. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Barkhuff/Nv." <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: newsletter Date: 16 Aug 1996 16:36:34 EDT thanks for the initial work and idea John. I think you did us all a terrific service...Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lou Al Chiaramonte/Joe Carillet Subject: M_Boats: Date: 16 Aug 1996 18:40:24 -0400 How do you access the archives? Joe C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RobertB164@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: newsletter Date: 16 Aug 1996 19:27:20 -0400 John, Thanks for all the work on the newsletter and organizing the outhing. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Diehl Subject: M_Boats: Re-Post - List Archives Date: 16 Aug 1996 18:58:11 -0600 (MDT) <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> Starting today, our list will be archived! There are two ways to retrieve archive files: 1. FTP to ftp.xmission.com and navigate to the pub/lists/montgomery_boats/archive directory. Then ftp the files you want. 2. Send the message index montgomery_boats to majordomo@xmission.com. You will receive a list of archive file names via e-mail. Decide which you want and send the message get montgomery_boats archive/FILENAME to majordomo@xmission.com, replacing FILENAME with the name of the file you want. It will be e-mailed to you. Please note that all administrative commands, such as index, get, unsubscribe, and who are sent to majordomo, not montgomery_boats. This is new to me, but it looks as if messages will be archived on a daily basis, using a filename structure like montgomery_boats.9608. We'll see! I have about a meg of disk space available to me on the xmission machine. Archives will be kept until they exceed my disk quota. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl <---- End Forwarded Message ----> Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: M_Boats: FS: M17 & trailer Date: 17 Aug 1996 11:30:54 -0700 This is multipart MIME message. --kwjjiqetqwfmquctpksrufevhmbudu Content-Type:text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="NCZ0734.TMP" --kwjjiqetqwfmquctpksrufevhmbudu Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="forsale.wpd" Content-Transfer-Encoding:base64 /1dQQ1gDAAABCgIBAAAAAgUAAACyCAAAAAIAAGWrtwy6iUsLYECQkIK10FlCebE6/69h74yNwIKL hSwXhd5D/7BtDHzfU4Wuy++XZvdPwZvEvQQC5WC0yEpuZ/qWz7Rp4j7kP6CRL6ODMphmux7SSIUg 1CEipS8RCuq3DOf8fG3kuLvi77VMwywaJizwvhdBOr03YhfBv1/+CfRUXmzbpqihmsyxCl43A0HP G8fyYAZk3SNzXWchoo4u1opwov9UK7BS576odKeSkcoGUGoYiq9H3kSlDu546wSdTclOiS7OmxsM iTSsxIv3EOtdh4UBekZRmEO57tjv4KMG9xkE3LFRkUaPhKwZqwr2bWMQ49EmifGIktTUGCTEBIIU +HD4HCD12QGfbmQic0chOBwozsaD+x1Rovyz3HIBkd+F21nQ7SeXuXEBFSvppxeB4tJyC/tBacai dNvBmIV5PMrFD7rZ48BX+l0xMJ2fUOZHoPCfQ39vasB3ovgZLJJyL3OYsigs8XYiztm1nfewrPw+ 6t2SQvBhnXevUELjiDw/76DjaLrjJ02IAFyCfNSoWwF8uKUb0ClwqM3MWf+jJwweXt8iZeq5j2jh saPhCXNJKNc37gZ9bz1ZgpW3qEeexEHB7zdJWt2/gkqZDR8kt4Lnc5KhQ9O8zqS2HDBB4k5l0BIC AAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgCAQAAABAAAABwAgAAAFUBAAAATgAAAIACAAAJJQEAAAAGAAAAzgIAAAsw AgAAACgAAADUAgAACAUBAAAACAAAAPwCAAAIdwEAAABAAAAABAMAAAg0AQAAABQAAABEAwAACCN8 AHgAAQIAABAAAAABACgAyBloEEgNAAARCQAAAFoACwEAixQ2AFQAaQBtAGUAcwAgAE4AZQB3ACAA UgBvAG0AYQBuACAAUgBlAGcAdQBsAGEAcgAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAgBYAgEAAAAEACgAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAARMCACQAoQAAAKEAAAABAAQAAgAAAAoAAAAHAAIAAgAIAAEARQAJAAMAAgAKAAEA RQALAAEAAgAMAAIAAgANAAEAVQAOAAEAVQAPAAEARAAQAAEAVQDTUREhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AN0KEACDAQQAAwACACEQAN3dCwsAAwAABAsA3U11c3SAc2VsbIBvdXKAJzkwgE0xNy6AgFlvdSds bIBiZYBoYXJkgHByZXNzZWSAdG+AZmluZIBvbmWAaW6AYmV0dGVygMxjb25kaXRpb24hgIBBYnNv bHV0ZWx5gGxvYWRlZIB3aXRogHVwZ3JhZGVkgGVxdWlwbWVudIBhbmSAbWFueYBtYW55m4BhZGSA zJxvbnObLoCARYRtYWlsgG1lgGFuZIBJJ2xsgHNlbnSAeW91gGGAbGlzdC6AgEZheIA5MTYvOTYx LTE0NTOAUGhvbmWAzDkxNi85NjItMTU3My6AU29tZYBleGFtcGxlczqAc2FpbHM6gDE1NSyAMTEw LIA4MIBtYWluL5xyZWVmcG9pbnRzmyyAzGJlYXV0aWZ1bIBzcGlubmFrZXKAd2l0aIBBTEyAc3Bp bm5ha2VygGdlYXI7gDExMIB2LoBpbnZlcnRlciyAQXV0b2hlbG2AzDgwMIBhdXRvdGlsbGVyO4BI YXJrZW6AYmxvY2tzgHRocm91Z2g7gEF1dG9oZWxtgHJlbW92ZTuAUGxhc3RpbW+AzGJ1bGtoZWFk gGNvbXBhc3M7gEF1dG9oZWxtgGVsZWMugGhhbmSAYmVhcmluZ4Bjb21wYXNzO4BGb3J0cmVzc4Bh bmNob3KAzGFuZIAzMDAngGxpbmWAYW5kgDE1J4BjaGFpbjuAZGVwdGiAc291bmRlcjuAT3Jpb26A U09TgGtpdDuANzUwa4DMZmxvb2RsaWdodDuAcXVpY2twaW5zgHRocm91Z2hvdXQ7gHRyYWlsZXKA cmlnZ2VkgGZvcoBlYXN5gG9ugGFuZIBvZmYsgMx3aXRogGV4dGVuZGluZ4B0b25ndWWAKHdlgGNv bnNpc3RlbnRseYBsYXVuY2iAYW5kgGFyZYBzYWlsaW5ngGZyb22AdGhlgMxkb2NrgGlugDEygC2A MTOAbWludXRlc4Bmcm9tgHBhcmtpbmeAdGhlgGJvYXQ7gGV4dGVuZGluZ4ByZWFygG1hc3SAzHN1 cHBvcnQvcm9sbGVyczuAZnJvbnSAbWFzdIBzdXBwb3J0gGJ1aWx0gGFzgHBhcnSAb2aAdHJhaWxl cjuAd2luY2g7gMxJbmNsdWRlc4ByYWlzaW5ngHRoZYBtYXN0LIBldGMuISlWSEY7gHNhZmV0eYBo YXJuZXNzLIB3aGlza2VygHBvbGUsgMycV2luZGV4m4B3aXRogGV4dGVuc2lvboBtb3VudCyAanVz dIByZXBsYWNlZIBhbGyAaGFseWFyZHOAd2l0aIBsaWdodGVyLIDMYnV0gHN0cm9uZ2VyLIBTdGFT ZXQ7gJxmZW7xAgcA8WRlcnMsgGxpZmVqYWNrZXRzLIA1LjWASm9obnNvboBPQi9sb25ngHNoYWbx AwcA8fEACADx8QIHAPFm8QMHAPHxAQgA8fECCQDxdDuA8QMJAPHxAgwA8fEDDADx8QINAPHM8QMN APHxAgwA8WFkanVzdGFibGWA8QMMAPHxAgkA8W91dGJvYfEDCQDx8QAKAPHxAgkA8XLxAwkA8fEB CgDx8QILAPFyZIBtb3VudDuA8QMLAPFhbmSbgJxtdWNogG11Y2ibgG1vcmUugIAkMTMsNTAwLoCA nPECDgDxzPEDDgDxUmVwbGFjZW1lbnSbgHZhbHVlgJzxAA8A8czxAQ8A8Wlzm4BmYXKAaW6AZXhj ZXNzgG9mgJwkMjJrmyGAYW5kgEmAaGF2ZYA5NSWAnPECEADxzPEDEADxb2abgHRoZYByZWNlaXB0 cyHM --kwjjiqetqwfmquctpksrufevhmbudu-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Abed Subject: M_Boats: Rusty Sails Date: 17 Aug 1996 17:07:50 -0400 Anyone know how to get rust stains out of sails? I just bought a Com-Pac 23 that hadn't been in the water for 2 years. The sails were in a bag in the owners basement on a metal shelf. The shelf rusted and the rust penetrated the bag and discolored a few patches on the sails. Other than that the sails apper to be in excellent shape. I'll certainly use them for years, but I would like for them to look a little better. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rusty Sails Date: 17 Aug 1996 20:03:14 -0700 (MST) >Anyone know how to get rust stains out of sails? > >I just bought a Com-Pac 23 that hadn't been in the water for 2 years. >The sails were in a bag in the owners basement on a metal shelf. The >shelf rusted and the rust penetrated the bag and discolored a few >patches on the sails. Other than that the sails apper to be in >excellent shape. I'll certainly use them for years, but I would like >for them to look a little better. _______________________________________ Verify this with others....OXALIC ACID ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Portsmouth Ratings Date: 18 Aug 1996 18:58:04 -0500 (CDT) M_World Subscribers, Hope everyone is having a great weekend. We just got back from our annual Lake Wissota Yacht Club Regatta. No winds yesterd. I got to play with the chute but the Chute Scoop (the old type with external halyards) was giving me some grief. Cost more time than we gained, but we had fun when it set - 400 s.f. of black and white nylon hanging out there for all to see. Today the winds were up so we got to show off our bottom paint. Came in 2nd on one race - not too bad for us hackers (and just a 110 jib). Anyway, with that long winded intro. out of the way - what you've all been waiting for....ta-ta-ta: PORTSMOUTH RATINGS FOR THE M'S! Here goes: These came from the 1993 Protsmouth Rating Book (that the newest one we've got at the Club and the one we are using. Our racing chair said he'll order a new one next year. I just copied the D-PN numbers (not all the stuff adjusting for Beaufort Scale). Centerboard boats: M6-8 [135.0] M7-11 [134.0] M10 [133.0] M12 [110.0] Offshore Boats: M15 108 M17 104.4 M17FD 96.0 (FLUSH DECK) M17TM 100.7 (TALL MAST) M19 [100.0] There must be one out there somewhere M23 (94.8) I think Montgomery 23's with hull number 88 should have a special handicapped rating of about 115. Sound fair to you? Hope this is of some value to you. Happy Sailin' Randy Palmer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Portsmouth Ratings Date: 18 Aug 1996 19:25:19 -0400 Thanks for the info. I race an M17 (372) but have never seemed to come close to it's potential. Is there some basic tune-up, or settings info available? I seem to dobest when it is blowing hard enough that other boats which can't reef enough are luffing. In light airs, though, the boat just isn't going fast. I had a new bottom put on last year, and clean it every month or so. I'd sure appreciate any help, info, you can give. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: M_Boats: FSM17 - New Try! Date: 18 Aug 1996 17:31:27 -0700 Must sell our '90 M17. You'll be hard pressed to find one in better conditions. Absolutely loaded with upgraded equipment and many many add ons. E-mail me and I'll send you a list. Fax 916/962-1453 Phone 916/962-1573. Some examples: Sails: 155, 110, 80, main/reef points, beautiful spinnaker with ALL spinnaker gear; 110v inverter, Autohelm 800 autotiller; Harket blocks throughout; Autohelm remote; Plastimo bulkhead compass; Autohelm elec. hand bearing compass; Fortress anchor and 300' line and 15 chain; depth sounder; knotmeter; 13 ga SOS kit; 750k floodlight; quickpins throughout the boat; trailer rigged for EASY off and on, with extending tongue, keel guides, winch, front mast support built onto trailer; extending rear mast support; VHF; safety harness, whisker pole, Windex with extension; just replaced all halywards with lighter, stronger StaSet (have the wire halyards); fenders lifejackets, 5.5 Johnson OB with long shaft, adj. outboard mount and much much more! $13,500. Replacement value in excess of $22k and I have most of the receipts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kdiehl@xmission.com (Keith Diehl) Subject: M_Boats: Re: FS: [Sail] Montgomery 8, US$1000; CA USA Date: 20 Aug 1996 15:41:45 GMT Lifted from rec.boats.marketplace: >Montgomery 8 (Looks like a Fatty Knees) > Complete Sail Rig, dagger and rudder. > 3.5 HP Nissan. > Positive floatation. > >I am asking $1000 dollars. The dink is in good shape and the motor works >fine. Contact me at asl@netcom.com. Located in the San Francisco bay area. >-- >Fair Winds, > >Sam >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >asl@netcom.com WHY am I here? >Adriana (Perry 47) "Yet I cannot tarry longer >Fortman Marina The sea that calls all things unto her, >Alameda, CA calls me and I must depart" > Kahlil Gibran - "The Prophet" > >-- >Approval of this message for the rec.boats.marketplace newsgroup implies no >warranty as to the serviceability or merchantability of goods or services >offered for sale herein. Please direct all inquiries about items advertised >here via e-mail or telephone to the poster identified above, not by posting >on this group or mailing to the moderator. Send other comments/questions/etc >to boat-market-request@bayview.com; submissions to boat-market@bayview.com Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KinhLuan Nguyenngoc Subject: M_Boats: rusty sails & cloth Date: 20 Aug 1996 11:15:28 "unsigned" wrote: Verify this with others....OXALIC ACID hi, I have the same problem with safety harnesses (that used to be white '-)...where can I find this acid, does it need to be diluted ...etc etc... Luan Windsong 15/81-#147 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TOM_JANSTROM@hp-boise-om2.om.hp.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: reef points Date: 20 Aug 1996 18:34:39 -0600 Item Subject: M_Boats: reef points Larry, Villand came equipped with a reefing jib as well. The sequence I used: 1) Take the reef tack down to the snap shackle at the bow. 2) Tie in the reef points. 3) Retie the sheets into the reef clew. (Why are you using a shackle here? It just serves to hang up on the shrouds and beat up the mast.) 4) Rehoist jib halyard. The better thing to do is to use a storm jib. But that's more money! TJ ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Non-HP-owner-montgomery-boats (owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com) at hp-boise,shargw5 There is a set of reef points in my jib that I have never used. The foot of the jib has a line attached which I have been putting on the snap shackle rather than hooking directly to the sail through the grommet. Would the jib be used with a similar line, thereby setting about a foot or so off the deck and all the reef pints being tied with sail ties? Or should the grommet be attached to the deck level itself? Advice accepted....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TOM_JANSTROM@hp-boise-om2.om.hp.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rusty Sails Date: 20 Aug 1996 18:45:07 -0600 Lay them out on the lawn. Scrub with a soft brush and mild soap. Nothing more. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Non-HP-owner-montgomery-boats (owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com) at HP-Boise,mimegw5 Anyone know how to get rust stains out of sails? I just bought a Com-Pac 23 that hadn't been in the water for 2 years. The sails were in a bag in the owners basement on a metal shelf. The shelf rusted and the rust penetrated the bag and discolored a few patches on the sails. Other than that the sails apper to be in excellent shape. I'll certainly use them for years, but I would like for them to look a little better. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: rusty sails & cloth Date: 21 Aug 1996 08:19:58 -0700 (MST) >"unsigned" wrote: Verify this with others....OXALIC ACID > >hi, I have the same problem with safety harnesses (that used to be white >'-)...where can I find this acid, does it need to be diluted ...etc etc... > >Luan >Windsong 15/81-#147 _____________________________________________________________________ Oxalic is an ingredient in stain removers, so either buy a stain remover or try to find it pure . I dont know that much about it except a chemical friend used it regularly on clothes and lines and car radiators. Some acids are more powerful when diluted. Sulphuric is more dangerous to skin when diluted cause it needs water to do its damage. Sorry could be of more help as i've not done this myself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: reef points Date: 21 Aug 1996 11:19:37 EST Perhaps there is some confusion here on #3. I mentioned that I put a snap shackle on the downhaul for the reef tack so I could use it for the cruising spinnaker as well. Sounds like someone raised Larry's jib perhaps for more wind (up higher), better visibility or to avoid obstacles on deck. Agreed: shackles on the sheets - a big no-no. Randy P. ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 20, 1996 6:34 PM Message ID: H000079a0635 From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com Copies: Attach: Subject: Re: M_Boats: reef points Item Subject: M_Boats: reef points Larry, Villand came equipped with a reefing jib as well. The sequence I used: 1) Take the reef tack down to the snap shackle at the bow. 2) Tie in the reef points. 3) Retie the sheets into the reef clew. (Why are you using a shackle here? It just serves to hang up on the shrouds and beat up the mast.) 4) Rehoist jib halyard. The better thing to do is to use a storm jib. But that's more money! TJ ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Non-HP-owner-montgomery-boats (owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com) at hp-boise,shargw5 There is a set of reef points in my jib that I have never used. The foot of the jib has a line attached which I have been putting on the snap shackle rather than hooking directly to the sail through the grommet. Would the jib be used with a similar line, thereby setting about a foot or so off the deck and all the reef pints being tied with sail ties? Or should the grommet be attached to the deck level itself? Advice accepted....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KinhLuan Nguyenngoc Subject: M_Boats: rusty sails Date: 21 Aug 1996 11:22:47 Tom Janstrom wrote: Lay them out on the lawn. Scrub with a soft brush and mild soap. Nothing more hi, that definitely did not work with rusty safety harnesses Luan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Diehl Subject: Re: M_Boats: rusty sails Date: 21 Aug 1996 16:06:31 -0600 (MDT) On 21 Aug 96, KinhLuan Nguyenngoc wrote: >Tom Janstrom wrote: Lay them out on the lawn. Scrub with a soft brush and >mild soap. > Nothing more > >hi, that definitely did not work with rusty safety harnesses > >Luan > > > I don't really know much about this subject, but if safety harnesses are nylon, then they are similar to rock climbing harnesses, which I do know about. The rule is, clean with nothing but mild soap. Many seemingly innocent agents can weaken nylon, and if your life is hanging from it...better strong and dirty than shiny and broken. That's my 2 cents. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RobertB164@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Rusty sails Date: 22 Aug 1996 14:12:06 -0400 For what it is worth, I talked to the guy at Pineapple Sails about what to do with rust stains on sails. His response: Learn to love them. They are impossible to remove. Best to just cut out the spot. Q: What about Oxalic Acid? A: He had seen it used on fiberglass, and it looks great the first hour, but it pits the surface and in time the spot looks worse than before. He thinks that if used on sails the residue would be a problem. It is hard to rinse out, so at a later date when you put the sails away damp, the acid will migrate and ruin other parts of the sail that it comes in contact with. -------------- Chemically, oxalic acid is used as a paint and varnish remover and will chelate iron and probably remove the rust spot, but it is also a general reducing agent, caustic and corrosive to skin and mucous membranes. I have never used it on sails. If it were me, I would not use it unless you are planning on replacing the sails anyway, then try it at about 0.5% with frequent rinsing and soaking and special storing conditions for the treated sails. You might want to contact a professional sail cleaner. Try Bogart and Goring Sailmakers, 647 Pacific Ave, Alameda, CA 94501. 510-523-9011. They say they can get rust stains out for $0.30 per sq ft, UPS in by Mon and back by Fri. Also I remember seeing a booth at all the boat shows offering profession sail cleaning and restoring, some company back east, but I cant find their literature. Someone else might have an address for you. No matter what you do, just remember, all it takes is money. Good luck, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: reef points Date: 22 Aug 1996 18:37:36 -0400 You can have a storm jib made for $150. It's well worth it! Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KinhLuan Nguyenngoc Subject: M_Boats: sailmakers ? Date: 22 Aug 1996 16:01:39 Bert wrote: You can have a storm jib made for $150. It's well worth it! hi, let's poll recommendations on sailmakers who know (own ?-) M-boats Luan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Diehl Subject: M_Boats: Re: Montgomery Sailboat Information Date: 22 Aug 1996 21:42:21 -0600 (MDT) I've subscribed you to our mailing list and forwarded your message on to the list. On Thu, 22 Aug 1996, KARohrer@aol.com wrote: >Hi: > >Saw your recent post on Montgomery sailboats and am interested in learning >more about the fleet and the Internet mailing list. Looking for a small >"trailer sailer" and would like more information on the Montgomery 15/17. > >Thanks for your help. > >Karl A. Rohrer >Vienna, VA > > > Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Sailmakers Date: 23 Aug 1996 06:08:15 EDT "..lets poll sailmakers who know Montgomeries..." The sails on my M-17 are made by Reggie Armstrong, and the Spinnaker is by McKibben. Don't know their addresses, as I just bought her a few months ago, and they all came with her...every sail listed in the bruchure !!! Harvey/Atl #294 Stargazer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Sailmakers Date: 23 Aug 1996 8:03:24 EST McKibben retired several years ago. Our '82/'85 M23 has McKibben sails. Our '93 M15 has Kern Sails, as does our '87 M7-11. Jerry M_ said that the Kern sails are as good as the McKibbens but maybe a little faster. When we ordered our storm jib and cruising spinnaker I checked a variety of sailmakers in the country besides sending a note to Kern (Newport Beach, CA as I recall). Kern didn't respond. I couldn't afford North. Bowers, in the Minneapolis area, while having a reputation for being high priced came in even under the "sail kit" prices. The trick is to order them in Sept. or Oct. when they give 15 to 20% off. For the M15 the storm jib was around $90 and the chute (100sf) was around $190. These prices are a year or two old but they should be close to that now (I think). The sails are computer designed and cut and I think the construction is good. You might give John Dennis a call at 800-279-7245 and see what Bowers Sails can do. (I don't get any kickbacks - although you might suggest it to John! :) :) :)) I'm sure there are other local sailmakers that can meet these prices. Randy Palmer ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 23, 1996 6:08 AM Message ID: 960823100815 From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: all Copies: Attach: Subject: M_Boats: Sailmakers "..lets poll sailmakers who know Montgomeries..." The sails on my M-17 are made by Reggie Armstrong, and the Spinnaker is by McKibben. Don't know their addresses, as I just bought her a few months ago, and they all came with her...every sail listed in the bruchure !!! Harvey/Atl #294 Stargazer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: altavoz@azstarnet.com (altavoz) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Montgomery Sailboat Information Date: 23 Aug 1996 08:50:50 -0700 (MST) KARohrer@aol.com wrote: >>Hi: Looking for a small >>"trailer sailer" and would like more information on the Montgomery 15/17. >>Karl A. Rohrer >>Vienna, VA > >Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City >http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dont have my 17 anymore ,but It was the best 17 ever built. It was a tall rig ( standard,tall,flush deck). It would take 6 adults in its huge cockpit , if you pushed it to its limit in calm waters. You could cross oceans if you had more storage . There was only one jap 4 cyl pickup that would pull it ( 1980 D50 sport 2600, 147 lb/ft@2200 rpm) ,but thats what makes a good boat,PROPER WEIGHT . The M17 is far ahead of anything in its class . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Karl Rohrer Date: 23 Aug 1996 20:54:29 -0400 Karl, I have a 15. I've trailed it to Jackson Lake, Wyoming, and I keep it in the Alameda,CA and sail it on San Francisco Bay. They longest my wife and I have slept on it is 5 nights on Jackson Lake. It has a lap strake hull with a balsa core deck. It is very strongly built. Displacement: 750 lbs. I've sailed in San Francisco Bay in winds 25 knots gusting to 30 . It handled well with a double reefed main and storm jib. I would strongly suggest buying one. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Lyle Hess Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:18:22 -0500 (CDT) Hi all, Someone asked about material that has been published on Lyle Hess. I found an interesting article about him in the May/June 1987 issue (#76) of WoodenBoat magazine. It has pictures of several of his boats. There was an article about "Syrinx," a 30 footer he designed that was built in Brooklin, ME (I learned today that she's now in Port Townsend, WA). "syrinx" is on the front cover of that issue (Mar./Apr. 1985 #63). There is also an article comparing the design and construction of his cutters in that issue. For another "wow" article, "Tenacity," another 30' Falmouth Cutter is featured in the Oct. 1994 issue (#120). WoodenBoat still had the issues in stock a few months back (when I ordered mine). They are $5.00ea. Call 1-800-273-7447 to order. "SAiling" magazine had an artilce on the Bristol Channel Cutters in January of this year. In February they had an article about "Seraffin," the Pardey's first boat. There is a picture of Lyle in that article. Sailing is at 414-284-3494 or sailing@sailnet.com. Of course there, is a lot to be learned of Hess in the books by Larry and Lynn Pardey. I sent a suggestion to Cruising World and suggested that they interview him while he's still around to do so (kind of like they did for Olin Stephens a while back). They did respond and said the editorial board would review my suggestion. Don't know anymore than that. Any other articles (that may still be obtainable) that anyone else knows about? Have a good sailing weekend, Randy P. ps: I've never met Lyle, but i've corresponded with his daughter briefly. Lyle has lost most of his eyesight. That is such a shame for a person who had such an eye for beauty. His designs will live long past him. They are a real tribute to the gods and goddesses of the lakes and the seas (the people who sail his boats!). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SailBabb@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lyle Hess Date: 25 Aug 1996 14:31:02 -0400 Is it true that Hess designed the M17? (sailbabb) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TOM_JANSTROM@hp-boise-om2.om.hp.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lyle Hess Date: 26 Aug 1996 07:37:20 -0600 True story. The back page of the factory brochures had a letter from Mr. Hess. TJ ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Non-HP-owner-montgomery-boats (owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com) at hp-boise,shargw5 Is it true that Hess designed the M17? (sailbabb) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lyle Hess Date: 26 Aug 1996 9:21:59 EST The confusion may be about the M15. Who designed it? Technically, Jerry M_ did. But it is a scale model of the M17 - atleast the hull - so I consider it a Hess design. Sure sails like one, anyway. :) Jerry M_ said that Lyle was impressed with the detailing on the M15. RP ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Aug 26, 1996 7:37 AM Message ID: H000079a0645 From: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com/SMTP To: owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com, SailBabb@aol.com Copies: montgomery_boats@xmission.com Attach: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lyle Hess True story. The back page of the factory brochures had a letter from Mr. Hess. TJ ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Non-HP-owner-montgomery-boats (owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com) at hp-boise,shargw5 Is it true that Hess designed the M17? (sailbabb) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KinhLuan Nguyenngoc Subject: M_Boats: Hess' biggest ? Date: 26 Aug 1996 13:18:18 Randy wrote: For another "wow" article, "Tenacity," another 30' Falmouth Cutter hi, did Lyle design anything bigger than 30' Luan Windsong, 15/81-#147 PS. why the appellation Falmouth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TOM_JANSTROM@hp-boise-om2.om.hp.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hess' biggest ? Date: 26 Aug 1996 16:45:53 -0600 The largest design for which Mr. Hess offers stock plans is a 40' cutter. There is also a 32'. I believe that in his boat building heyday during the 40's and 50's he did some one-off work which was over 40'. "Westward Ho" is pictured in the WoodenBoat biography of him and it looks pretty big. Falmouth is a British seaport. Note the similarity of Mr. Hess's boats (some of them, at any rate...) to the indigenous oyster draggers and pilot boats of the southern British coast. Bristol Channel, Itchen Ferry.....etc. Fair winds, TJ ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Non-HP-owner-montgomery-boats (owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com) at HP-Boise,mimegw5 Randy wrote: For another "wow" article, "Tenacity," another 30' Falmouth Cutter hi, did Lyle design anything bigger than 30' Luan Windsong, 15/81-#147 PS. why the appellation Falmouth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: reefs in jib and main Date: 26 Aug 1996 22:05:39 -0400 Randy and Seth, here are the deminsions from my 1984 M15, Kokopelli. The main has two reefs. The first (closest to the boom) is 36 inches. The second is 34 inches. The reef on the jib is 25 inches at the leech and 14 inches at the luff. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lou Al Chiaramonte/Joe Carillet Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 08 Aug 1996 17:41:19 -0400 Dear Montgomery owners, I am not a Montgomery owner yet - I live in the Tampa Bay area and am looking for a microcruiser suitable for sailing mostly in this area. We have a lot of shallow water here, and either light air, no air or strong winds. I would like your opinions on how the Montgomery 15 compares to other boats that I am considering. I would like to hear about any experiences with the following boats: West Wight Potter 15, Peep Hen, or Compac 16. The boat I choose must be easily launched and rigged singlehandedly. What is the height of the mast? If you did not own a M15 what would be your second choice of boats and why? Thanks, Joe Carillet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy Graves Subject: RE: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 27 Aug 1996 06:57:43 -0600 Joe, We own an '88 M-15. Before purchasing the M-15 I looked carefully at the Compaq. It is also a strong, quality vessel. However we choose the Montgomery's over the Compaq 16 for several reasons. The M has a better balance between cockpit size and interior volume, We liked the lapstrake hull design of the M's as well as the overall good looks. Other things we appreciate about our M-15 are: Overall quality of construction, keel/centerboard design, interior finish, quality oversized hardware, positive foam flotation and lastly ..... the wide blue hull stripe! We have owned two other sailboats, one 24' and a 14' Let me know if I can provide additional info. Randy Graves, Idaho Falls, ID randy@site.eitc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TOM_JANSTROM@hp-boise-om2.om.hp.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 27 Aug 1996 08:54:02 -0600 Dear Joe, you'll get no unbiased critcism here. Buy the M15! Curmudgeonly yours, TJ ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Non-HP-owner-montgomery-boats (owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com) at HP-Boise,mimegw5 Dear Montgomery owners, I am not a Montgomery owner yet - I live in the Tampa Bay area and am looking for a microcruiser suitable for sailing mostly in this area. We have a lot of shallow water here, and either light air, no air or strong winds. I would like your opinions on how the Montgomery 15 compares to other boats that I am considering. I would like to hear about any experiences with the following boats: West Wight Potter 15, Peep Hen, or Compac 16. The boat I choose must be easily launched and rigged singlehandedly. What is the height of the mast? If you did not own a M15 what would be your second choice of boats and why? Thanks, Joe Carillet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KenX Cregger Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 27 Aug 1996 15:03:00 PDT Text item: Joe, You might look at a Neptune 16 - I listen in on the WWP list and The Mac/Venture lists also, all the problems that keep getting rehashed by these other lists have never happened to me & my little cruiser... I haven't heard much whining from the M-Boat list so far, so that may be a sign of a well designed boat also. I saw that someone had a Neptune for sale a few weeks ago & I can probably dig up the right address if you'd like. KenC N-16 'Dawn Treader' Dear Montgomery owners, I am not a Montgomery owner yet - I live in the Tampa Bay area and am looking for a microcruiser suitable for sailing mostly in this area. We have a lot of shallow water here, and either light air, no air or strong winds. I would like your opinions on how the Montgomery 15 compares to other boats that I am considering. I would like to hear about any experiences with the following boats: West Wight Potter 15, Peep Hen, or Compac 16. The boat I choose must be easily launched and rigged singlehandedly. What is the height of the mast? If you did not own a M15 what would be your second choice of boats and why? Thanks, Joe Carillet Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: lachiara@gte.net Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-GTE (Macintosh; U; PPC) Message-Id: <320A5EFF.493B@gte.net> Received: from 206.251.97.6 (tpm97185.gte.net) by mail.gte.net with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA170850152; Thu, 8 Aug 1996 16:36:19 -0500 Received: from newmail.gte.net ([206.124.65.235]) by mail.xmission.com (8.7.5/8. 7.5) with ESMTP id AAA13639 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 199 6 00:08:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mail.xmission.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) id AAA13655 for montgomery_boats-goout; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.xmission.com (root@mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by orma il.intel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA26162 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 04:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by relay.jf.i ntel.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA03308 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 1996 04:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: owner-montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 28 Aug 1996 20:35:42 -0400 Joe, We looked at all the same sailboats before we bought our M17. I certainly recommend buying a Montgomery. If you plan to sail for short cruises, you might want to look at the M17. I trailer it everywhere, can step the mast and launch by myself, and there is more room than in the 15. The difference in draft is minimal. Either way I believe you would be better off with a Montgomery ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.E.Allgire" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 15 Date: 28 Aug 1996 21:41:02 +0000 I'd like to second that. The M-17 is grteat boat....forgiving for beginners.....fast but safe....exrtremely well built (mine came of the factory in 1974 and she's stilla beauty....like heavy weather and handles it without giving you white knuckles if you do the rightn things....a great boat and you'd never regret buying one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KinhLuan Nguyenngoc Subject: M_Boats: and once upon a time..... Date: 29 Aug 1996 10:29:14 R E Allgire wrote: in 1974 and she's stilla beauty. hi, so when was the first 17 made ? the first 15 ? enquirin minds want to know !-) Luan Windsong 15/81-#147 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.E.Allgire" Subject: Re: M_Boats: and once upon a time..... Date: 30 Aug 1996 08:50:54 +0000 I hope someone can answer these questions...sorry I can't. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: and once upon a time..... Date: 30 Aug 1996 21:07:56 -0400 Somehow I'm out of the loop. What questions are we talking about? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: first 17 and Seth's answers Date: 30 Aug 1996 23:40:24 -0400 The first 17 was built in 1973; at least that is when it was designed. Seth, to your first question. I have two reefing lines for each set of reef points on the main. The two forward ones are attached to the mast; the two aft are attached to the boom. I have not lead them forward. The jib sheets can be retied when reefing by standing in the open companionway. I then hove to and tie in the lines that run along it. The reefed jib doesn't set as well as a smaller jib, but it works well enough. I've sailed in the bay (S.F.) with a doubled reefed main and a reefed jib. The boat had good control in 25 knots and ran at 6 knots. Bert (kokopelli) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: 17's mast Date: 30 Aug 1996 23:41:36 -0400 How do you raise the mast on your 17's? I've heard it much harder to raise and set up than on the 15. Bert (Kokopelli) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry Barkhuff/Nv." <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Another 23 owner located Date: 31 Aug 1996 13:38:02 EDT Keith wrote a week or so ago that he had seen a blue hull 23 in Washington state when he was looking at some other of Mr. Hess boats. I wrote the harbormaster, and last night got a call from Richard Lane who owns hull #44 (?) Don't we love Jerry numbering system for the 23's. He also knows of another boat in the Widby Island area he is going to try to locate for me. Dick has installed a new electric system on his boat with a sliding rack for two batteries. The boat was owner finished, and the original purchaser neglected to install any backing support between the mast and the compression post, therefore, the compression post was slowly disappearing up inside the mast!!!!! Dick had to remove much of in inner balsa and rebuild the area. Advice came from Jerry and with somemuscle and jacks and other type of work, the area was heavily reinforced and seems to be fine now. The boat is trailered from the Washington area to the SFO bay area each year. Some serious modification waork was done on the trailer to improve the brakes. It seems the boats with trailer and gear weighed out at some 5800 pounds. It seems that I have misplaced my copies of the two MO newsletters which came out early in the program which had the articles about the "23 found" in Sausalito marina. Would someone be willing to copy the ones they have and mail to me....? Home address is 601 Otono Drive, Boulder City, Nevada 89005. I am trying to get a letter done to mail to all of the 23 owners I have located. should have that done soon. You get one to TJ, even if you did sell the Wild Goose Thanks Larry