From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Using the forward compartment on the M15. Date: 01 Oct 1997 00:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Lacey, My 1984n M 15 had no floatation in it when I bought it used. One of the previous owners must have removed it. I have since replaced it. I have also considered removing the foam up forward for a trip to Baja. Jerry M. stored about twenty gallons of water up there. My hesitation is that the boat might sink. It takes approximately 1 cubic foot of floation per 1000 I know that if my floatation is needed that I would like my boat floating level and as high as possible. Let me know what you find out. Thanks, Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Using the forward compartment on the M15. Date: 01 Oct 1997 08:09:37 -0700 Mont15@aol.com wrote: > > Lacey, > My 1984n M 15 had no floatation in it when I bought it used. One of the > previous owners must have removed it. I have since replaced it. I have also > considered removing the foam up forward for a trip to Baja. Jerry M. stored > about twenty gallons of water up there. > My hesitation is that the boat might sink. It takes approximately 1 cubic > foot of floation per 1000 > I know that if my floatation is needed that I would like my boat floating > level and as high as possible. > Let me know what you find out. > Thanks, Bert I thought I would add my two cents worth. The foam is there for a good reason. Safety. You can remove it but should you? Bob Fisher "Lori Ann" M17 #373 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Stuneck Subject: M_Boats: MN M-17 For Sale Date: 02 Oct 1997 05:23:54 -0600 Hi all - here's news of a Minnesota M-17 for sale: M-17 (red w/ white topsides) Hull #276 Roller furling (new in 1996) Topping lift Bowers Sails and black sail cover Topping lift Glass hatch doors Swim ladder Motor lowering bracket (motor not included) Hiking stick Lights Interior is brown plaid pattern Boat currently in water at White Bear Lake, MN. & will probably be at Hooper's very soon. Looks to be in very nice shape with exc. equipment. (There was a pretty new 6.0 Sailmaster on the boat, but is apparently NOT included in the price.) Asking: $5450.00 Boat being sold as part of estate of Don Cheatham, (recently dec.) through Hooper's Yachts in St. Paul, MN. Phone # for executor: 646-8756 Reply to: fritzs@minn.net Member Minn.Gen. Society. Researching Stuneck, Zdunek,Carlsen, Danner, Minnich, Ludwig, Beyer, Hoffman; M-17 #174/White Bear Lake, MN. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Phillips Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a Montgomery 17? Date: 02 Oct 1997 08:27:49 -0700 I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question about towing a Montgomery 17. I've decided that I'm going to trade in my car and go back to driving a pickup truck. Hopefully 5000 lb towing capacity will be enough for a margin of safety. Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rod Johnson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a Montgomery 17? Date: 02 Oct 1997 14:10:26 -0700 Dan Phillips wrote: > > I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question about towing a > Montgomery 17. I've decided that I'm going to trade in my car and go back > to driving a pickup truck. Hopefully 5000 lb towing capacity will be > enough for a margin of safety. > > Dan Dan - I tow my M17 (#408) with a compact pickup and I am happy as a clam. My truck is a GMC S-15 with a 4.3L V6, an automatic tranny and the factory towing package. It is a 4x4, which I thought would be useful for slippery launch ramps, but in 3 years I haven't needed it and I wish I didn't have it since it increases maintenance, decreases mileage etc. The truck weighs about 3800 lbs with nothing in the bed (a rare occurrence) and it definitely feels like it is in charge of the boat and not the other way around. I don't know how much smaller I would want to go - definitely not back to a 2 liter 4 cyl - but I'll bet the smaller Ford V6 would work. Anyway, good luck and fair winds. Rod Johnson - BuscaBrisas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom T. Wilkinson" <71574.2614@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Itchen ferry Date: 03 Oct 1997 01:55:23 -0400 This is off the subject of Montgomery sailboats but does deal with Lyle Hess designs. I recently became aware of the Itchen Ferry a more or less 32 ft. Bristol Channel Cutter. Does anyone have any info on this boat or if it is still manufactured? Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a Montgomery 17? Date: 03 Oct 1997 23:10:21 -0400 Hi Rod... The 3liter Ford V-6 is quite adequate for a M-17..I tom Stargazer with a Ford Aerostar 3L automatic. 3500 lb. U-Haul frame hitch and tranny oil cooler. Pulling the boat, I get about 16 mpg on the highway...22 mpg without. When towing, I gotta keep the tranny in drive, not overdrive. One day, I'll test a tankful with the tranny in drive, but without the boat, to see what gas mileage it really costs to tow it. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lane Subject: M_Boats: M23 stability curve and polars Date: 03 Oct 1997 22:33:33 -0700 Does anyone have access to the M23 stability curve (righting moment or arm vs heel angle)? Does anyone have a set of polars for this boat with the stock 110% jib? Dick Lane ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a Montgomery 17? Date: 05 Oct 1997 11:49:02 -0400 Harvey, it is not advisable to tow the boat in the OD position unless you are going down a good hill....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: Eagle Lake Date: 06 Oct 1997 12:59:35 -0700 Bert and Scott: Would you recommend Eagle Lake to others? Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Itchen ferry Date: 07 Oct 1997 23:14:46 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Tom T. Wilkinson wrote: > This is off the subject of Montgomery sailboats but does deal with Lyle > Hess designs. I recently became aware of the Itchen Ferry a more or less > 32 ft. Bristol Channel Cutter. Does anyone have any info on this boat or > if it is still manufactured? > Tom > Tom, I've been waiting for someone to jump in but I haven't seen anything - so I'll make a stab at a reply. Please don't take my word as coming from an expert on the subject. As I understand it, the Itchen Ferry Cutters were relatives of the BCC's and Falmouth Cutters. They were working boats that evolved in the Cornwall area of England - probably reaching their zenith around 100 years ago. They were noted for being able to carry a lot of cargo, able to heave to to wait for incoming ships, able to handle the choppy waters of the Irish Sea and they were fast - fleet owners often raced them with good success. There are many of the boats built during that time still plying the oceans. The Carr's have been living on their 29 foot Falmouth Cutter for something like 30 years now and currently live on her in South Georgia (in the south Atlantic). Their boat is approaching it's 100th birthday soon. The Itchen Ferry cutter was designed with a fairly shallow draft in order to get into shallow rivers and harbors. The lines on them are fuller forward than the modern designs which supposedly makes them less inclined to heel but it does affect the windward performance. I called on a 32 foot IFC for sale in Florida last year and the guy was quite critical of the Hess designed BCC saying it was a modern designed hull (and too small for a couple to live on). Having talked to people who've sailed Hess's BCC I don't think it is a bad design at all. The Pardey's certainly will give testimonial to Hess's BCC/Falmouth Cutter designs. Anyway, he said the old design worked great in the skinny waters of Florida and he prefered the old rigging (not one winch on his boat) and not heeling much over 10 degrees (or so he said). He apparently didn't like my questions as he never sent me any info. And I thought I was a sailing reactionary! I'm sure there's more info out there on the design. I'd try WoodenBoat magazine. The one in Florida was "stick-built" in Maine about 20 years ago but I don't know of any fiberglass production boats around. Possibly someone in England is producing one. That's the limit of my info at this time. Anyone know if there are any models (even kit form) of the BCC and its cousins being made? I think I'll add a project to my list - let's see - number 11,251 - and make a half hull model of the BCC. Lyle Hess's BCC that is. Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom T. Wilkinson" <71574.2614@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Itchen ferry Date: 08 Oct 1997 18:46:43 -0400 Randy, Thanks for the info. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: M_Boats: New Montgomery owner Date: 08 Oct 1997 20:39:02 -0400 Hi everyone I wanted to introduce myself and ask what I imagine will be the first of many questions from the Montgomery family. I've been lurking on this list and the Potter list for several months, trying to make a decision about which small boat to buy (this is my first boat). After a while it became really clear that there wasn't really any decision to be made after all, and last weekend Sheila and I drove up to Maryland and bought Brad Nelson's 1985 M17 and brought her back here to Charleston, and christened her Ruby Moon. We haven't been out yet, but I already have some questions, so here goes. First, we plan on keeping Ruby Moon in the water much of the time, and would like to install a topping lift. Any suggestions on the best way to do this? And second, along the same lines, we need to get a mainsail cover; any recommendations for a source, and what size should we be ordering? Finally, are there any other M boat owners around here? TIA, Robert Rubey. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: New Montgomery owner Date: 08 Oct 1997 23:38:00 -0400 Hi Bob.. Welcome to the group!! Like you, I lurked in the Potter group for a while, then decided they weren't for me. Also, like you, the M-17 is my first boat..a 1979 model that I bought in Ft. Myers, Fla. (we Monty lovers travel far and wide to find our boats) Methinks there's two M-17 owners near Augusta, Ga....I'll try finding their addresses if they don't chime in soon. I live in Marietta, Ga (near Atlanta) and sail on Lake Lanier. I keep the boat there during my sailing season, but take her home for the winter to work on her. You might check West Marine, or a sailmaker in your area for a cover. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: replies Date: 09 Oct 1997 12:05:11 -0700 Scott: Thank's for your assistance with the second reef on M15 Main, trailering clarifications, etc!! Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: M_Boats: Introduction Date: 10 Oct 1997 22:17:16 EDT Greetings to all fellow Montgomery owners in cyberland. I have recently found this usenet group and am delighted to come aboard. My past usenet group experience has been with the BMW and Moto-Guzzi motorcycle crowd. I own a 76 M17 and sail in Minnesota. This last season, my first with a Montgomery, has been on Lake Waconia, 3100 acres, located 35 miles west of Minneapolis. This is a sailing, fishing lake with few power boaters and jetskis. I have enjoyed my pocket cruiser tremendously and have tried to use it as much as time will permit. The Montgomery is everything I had been looking for in a trailerable. She is built strong, flys in light air, and room for 4 adults. I can handle her single handed, and am looking forward to trailering to bigger waters next season. This winter I plan to add an outboard motor bracket, cam cleats for the jib sheets, and a new main. Any sail maker recommendations from the list? Looking forward to talking, meeting and sailing with other owners. This will be a long winter for me, anxiously waiting for spring sailing. Well, I guess there is always the Carribean. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 "Bonita" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Montgomery owner Date: 11 Oct 1997 00:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Robert, Welcome to the Montgomery world. I have an M17 (#372) and am just down the highway from you - Augusta, Ga. I sometimes take it down to Charleston for a few days. I keep it on Clark Hill Reservoir (now called Strom Thurmond, but no one in Georgia calls it that!). I hope we can get together some time to go sailing. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Montgomery owner Date: 12 Oct 1997 12:51:53 -0400 John Good to hear from you. My number in Charleston is 971-0017, and my email i s rroubaix@worldnet.att.net. If you ever head this way, please let me know. Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: MONTGOMERY 17 INFO Date: 12 Oct 1997 15:30:00 -0400 (EDT) DOES ANY ONE HAVE...A COPY OF A BROCHURE FOR A DETAILED MONTGOMERY 17? EXACT SAIL DIMENSIONS? ANY USED SAILS FOR M-17? ANYONE ADDED A BOWSPRIT TO M-17? ANYONE CONVERTED M-17 TO CUTTER RIG? APPRECIATE ANY INFO...KEN PAGANS, 13721 CAYO GORDA, CORPUS CHRISTI, TX, 78418, 512 9499386 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: MONTGOMERY 17 INFO Date: 12 Oct 1997 19:14:33 +0000 Grove777@aol.com wrote: > > DOES ANY ONE HAVE...A COPY OF A BROCHURE FOR A DETAILED MONTGOMERY 17? EXACT > SAIL DIMENSIONS? ANY USED SAILS FOR M-17? ANYONE ADDED A BOWSPRIT TO M-17? > ANYONE CONVERTED M-17 TO CUTTER RIG? APPRECIATE ANY INFO...KEN PAGANS, 13721 > CAYO GORDA, CORPUS CHRISTI, TX, 78418, 512 9499386 Hi Ken Send me ten smackers and I'll send you a sail plan! I put a cutter rig on a 15 once (24" bowsprit if I remember right, or was it 36"?) and sailed it across the Sea of Cortez. It worked OK but was really more trouble than it was worth. Predictably, the standard rig was faster upwind, and a spinnaker was a lot faster and easier broad reaching and downwind, which leaves close reaching, where it was fast and fun and would slowly leave a 17 behind. In general, way more trouble than it was worth and a hassle to trailer because the sprit needed to be removed and rerigged each time the boat was launched. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Montgomery owner Date: 12 Oct 1997 21:56:18 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Robert Rubey wrote: > Hi everyone > I wanted to introduce myself and ask what I imagine will be the first of > many questions from the Montgomery family. I've been lurking on this list > and the Potter list for several months, trying to make a decision about > which small boat to buy (this is my first boat). After a while it became > really clear that there wasn't really any decision to be made after all, > and last weekend Sheila and I drove up to Maryland and bought Brad Nelson's > 1985 M17 and brought her back here to Charleston, and christened her Ruby > Moon. We haven't been out yet, but I already have some questions, so here > goes. First, we plan on keeping Ruby Moon in the water much of the time, > and would like to install a topping lift. Any suggestions on the best way > to do this? And second, along the same lines, we need to get a mainsail > cover; any recommendations for a source, and what size should we be > ordering? Finally, are there any other M boat owners around here? TIA, > Robert Rubey. > Hi Robert, I got covers from M& E Marine for our M15 that work quite well. The color selection from the catalog is very limited (we ended up with brown which compliments the dark green stripe on Oui-1 well and is similar in color to the Cetol on the teak.) We ordered their small size and a small cover for the jib, which probably could hold all of the head sails for a M15 you would want - all at once! The price was right (I can dig out the catalog if you wish) - quite a bit cheaper than I've seen elsewhere. The fabric is an acrylic but it isn't Sunbrella. Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jslubliner@juno.com (john s lubliner) Subject: Re: M_Boats: MONTGOMERY 17 INFO Date: 13 Oct 1997 00:42:53 EDT Jerry - Are you lurking in here somewhere? If so, check in - the fall San Carlos race is scheduled for early November this year, we need help keeping Tom and Bill sober. John Lubliner - Coyote. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: Fw: BOUNCE montgomery_boats@xmission.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 8 Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 9 Date: 13 Oct 1997 08:26:01 -0600 ---------- > From: owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com > To: owner-montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: BOUNCE montgomery_boats@xmission.com: Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 8 Admin request of type /\bsubscribe\b/i at line 9 > Date: Monday, October 13, 1997 6:32 AM > > >From palmerri@uwec.edu Mon Oct 13 06:32:44 1997 > Received: from mail01.uwec.edu [137.28.1.33] > by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #4) > id 0xKjfv-0006g5-00; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:32:43 -0600 > Received: from [137.28.129.228] by mail01.uwec.edu; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:32:37 -0500 > Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971013073344.00948a90@uwec.edu> > X-Sender: palmerri@uwec.edu > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) > Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:33:44 -0500 > To: MAFagan9@aol.com > From: "Randolph I. Palmer" > Subject: Re: MONTGOMERY 17 > Cc: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > In-Reply-To: <971013000246_-1193548328@emout07.mail.aol.com> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Lenny, > > I don't know how you got my name, but I am a Montgomery owner. (Have 3 to > be exact). So I hope I can find you LOTS of M_Owners to contact. > > Keith Diehl in Utah started a Montgomery owners, > users, and dreamers list. You might want to add your name to it. To > subscribe, send a message to and in the text (not > subject line) type "subscribe montgomery_boats". You should get a > confirmation that tell you how to post to the list (actually it is > ). We have a wide variety of topics come up > on the list and it keeps it interesting. I would guess "we" have over 75 > subscribers now on the M_Boats list. Hope you will join us. > > I'll copy this to the M_Boats to see if there are any M_Owners in AZ who > may want to meet you on the water someplace. > > Fair winds, > > Randy P. > > At 12:05 AM 10/13/97 -0400, you wrote: > >RANDY, > > > >I OWN A '73 M-17 WITH THE SWING KEEL SETUP . DIDN'T KNOW THE BOAT CAME WITH > >ANYTHING DIFFERENT UNTIL I STARTED DOING RESEARCH ON THEM. I SAW MY FIRST > >M-17 IN SAN DIEGO A FEW YEARS AGO AND OF COURSE IT WAS IN THE WATER SO I > >DIDN;T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THE KEEL. IT'S LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT WITH THESE > >BOATS. LOOKED STURDIER THAN ANYTHING ELSE I SAW AT THE MARINA. I DO LOVE > >ERICSONS THOUGH !!!!! > > > >I MUST SAY EVEN THOUGH JERRY M. BADMOUTHED SWING KEELS, THE BOAT DOES A GREAT > >JOB FOR ME. SHE HANDLES WELL AND WITH THE CHOICE OF RAISING OR LOWERING THE > >KEEL FOR WIND CONDITIONS YOU CAN SURE HAVE FUN. SHE WILL TAKE A GOOD BLOW > >WITH REEFED MAIN AND STORM JIB AS WELL AS RUN LIKE HELL WITH A 150 GENNY. > > > >I'M TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH OTHER M- OWNERS. SO-O-O-O-O, IF YOU KNOW OF > >ANY AND THEY WANT TO SWAY LIES PASS MY ADDRESS ON. > > > >LENNY IN AZ > > > > > > --- > Randy Palmer > Grounds Manager > UW-Eau Claire > Facilities Planning & Management > 715-836-3865 fax: 715-836-6044 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: MONTGOMERY 17 INFO Date: 13 Oct 1997 18:19:47 +0000 John! How the hell are you? Great to hear from you; I think about you low-lifers in Tucson a lot. Wwhat is the date of the race? I'm leaving next week for Oregon to attempt to murder Bambi's big brudder and should return on or about Nov 6. If this fits, and if I don't have any work lined up by then, it might be fun to head South. Don't count on me to keep Tom and Bill sober; I would just lead them further into darkness. Take care of my Coyote! Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jslubliner@juno.com (john s lubliner) Subject: Re: M_Boats: MONTGOMERY 17 INFO Date: 15 Oct 1997 00:08:37 EDT Jerry - Glad to get your message. I just phoned Tom ( 8:40) and got him out of bed to ask him if he was going to the race. Tom, John Rogers and Bill got totally bombed Saturday night last May race and spent the entire next day throwing up in their room - missing the race. Tom is afraid of going south because of this (and really, because nobody has invited him to race with them), so he is available if pushed. Push him. I have invited Bill to race with me, and Fred Ray if we go in the Spinnaker fleet. If you two guys decide to come, I am sure we can work something out - like a sobriety test for each morning with the most able racing and the wimps on the beach. I provide crew bribes for all racing, so give it some thought. Glad you called in - your Coyote is well and has some new gear . John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: M_Boats: My centerboard fell off! Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:03:20 -0400 During the trip that I finished yesterday (description to follow, in case anybody's interested) I had a small problem with the centerboard -- it fell off and dangled from its halyard. I was able to drop the board in shallow water and recover it, so I know that it broke at the point where the pin passes through it at the front. It seems to be a fiberglass molding filled with cement. Given the difficulty in getting a new board, my first thought is to have somebody make a steel plate in the same shape and then have it galvanized. I would much appreciate any comments on the advisability and practicality of this, or any other way of fixing things. BTW: I found that, with no board in the casing, the self-draining cockpit becomes a self-filling cockpit at anything faster than very low speed. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: M_Boats: M17s for sale Date: 15 Oct 1997 10:19:01 -0700 I'm sure somewhere in the archive this info exists, but perhaps someone knows the whereabouts of M17s for sale in the US. I know of Terry's boat in MN, but am looking for one closer to the state of Washington (which is a doggone long ways from Winona) if possible. Feel free to reply to the email address below. Thanks. -- Tom Smith Spokane, WA mailto:tsmith@ior.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Stuneck Subject: M_Boats: M-17's For Sale list/1997 Date: 15 Oct 1997 18:46:05 -0600 Here are a few M-17's for sale from this past year which might still be around. However, you might still be wise to check out a traveling situation if the price is right, eh? Sent: 7/16/97 2:50 PM Hi Freddo, A guy from my office has a copy of the Northwest Yachting magazine and I saw just one ad for a Montgomery '17 I thought you might be interested in. It's an '86, with an outboard and they are asking $9500. The dealer is Admiralty Sailboats, located in the Seattle/Tacoma area. The number is 1-800-258-3888. Just an FYI. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 8/19/97 3:16 PM Received: 8/19/97 5:31 PM Reply-To: Montgomery boats, montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com a friend of mine has a 17 for sale this fall, located in Oregon. Email your phone # and he can call you. xxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 6/15/97 8:34 PM Received: 6/16/97 4:50 AM Reply-To: Montgomery boats, montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com Hi Monty lovers !! I finally got most of the hull numbers of the M-15's and M-17 at Gale Stockdale's Marine center in Sacramento, Cal. He's got 4 M-15's and a yellow M-17 ( a sistership of my white Stargazer). .................M-15's.......... 1981 hull # 120....$4995 1981 hull # 137.....$5200 (roller furling ??) 1983 hull # 258..... another M-15 that was dropped off recently and not yet priced by the owner (as of friday) 1979 M-17 hull# 299..... $6100. All have trailer, motor and at least 2 sails...some have 3. Gale says that the M-15's are in excellent condition...and he doesn't know why they haven't sold before now. Is this broker jargon for "I'll take less ??" He said that the M-17 is in fair condition, MJG sails, 4.5hp motor, trailer. One M-15 is listed a bit higher then the prices that he quoted, but no hull number listed. It's a 1985 model, and may be the one with missing hull number. Gale's phone number is 916-332-0775. If you call/visit, tell him you saw it in our newsgroup listing. ( I get no commish, as 2 others will tell you) Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 xxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 6/19/97 8:13 PM Received: 6/23/97 4:42 PM Reply-To: Montgomery boats, montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com I have a 1978 M17 with a newer galvanized trailer. I don't use it much anymore and would consider selling it for the right price. I'm asking $6,000. It's in good shape and well equipped. E-mail for details. Santa Maria, California. John Stephan Crews xxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17's For Sale list/1997 Date: 15 Oct 1997 16:56:25 -0700 Fritz Stuneck wrote: Hey, thanks Fritz. I'll follow up on a couple of these for sure. -- Tom Smith Spokane, WA mailto:tsmith@ior.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17s for sale Date: 15 Oct 1997 22:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Can anyone tell me the E mail address for the editor of the MON? Thanks, John (M17 # 372) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17s for sale Date: 15 Oct 1997 20:54:24 -0600 Terry Schwarze can be reached at schwarze@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU He's also on the this list. ------- > From: Saltm17@aol.com > To: montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17s for sale > Date: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 8:45 PM > > Can anyone tell me the E mail address for the editor of the MON? > > Thanks, > > John (M17 # 372) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DHUNT Subject: M_Boats: New to list, Looking for a M-17 Date: 16 Oct 1997 14:13:28 -0700 ** High Priority ** I just recently joined the Montgomery maialing list... thanks for the tip. A good friend (Mike Flynn, DVM, CdA, ID) called me two weeks ago and asked me if I knew of anyone interested in 50% partner in a "Montgomery 17" - which I'd not heard of. I gave him the std. cautions about boat partnerships, but told him I'd consider his ? and said I'd like to see the M-17. Well, he listened to my damned advice and bought the '85 M-17 (In bristol condition) for a good price w/ trlr, motor, and lots of equip. Two days ago, I walked down to see it. I climbed aboard, and, sitting in the cabin, had a epiphany.... WHY didn't I look at this little wonder before I shot my mouth off..... Anyway, she's a beautiful little boat with incredible design and functionality (as if I need to tell you that...). So now I am 1. selling my Newport 27 (which I built a huge trailer for)... 2. Encouraging Mike to reconsider a partnership - or promise me first crack if he ever sells, and 3. Looking for an M-17 for myself.... His will be hard to beat..... I am also interested in knowing more about the M-23. Do you know where I can view photos & specs for one... Thanks alot - this is a very nice users group / list ! Any help finding a M would be much appreciated - I'll travel & tow for a vg. to xlnt. M. - Email me anytime. David Hunt 934 Elm Coeurd'Alene, Idaho 83814 dhunt@sd271.k12.id.us 208-765-3496 - H 208-769-0726 - W (8-4 Pacific, M-F) 208-660-8498 - Cell, eves when not home "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do...so...Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: M_Boats: XLNT M17 FOR SALE Date: 16 Oct 1997 16:59:41 -0500 (CDT) This is multipart MIME message. --pxqjokqpoekpksaxubghaaobkkuomj Content-Type:text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="NCZ0174.TMP" --pxqjokqpoekpksaxubghaaobkkuomj Content-Type:text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="equiplst.003" 91 Montgomery 17 - Better than new; truly in excellent condition; Incudes blue sheer strake; white hull, two sheet winches, Genoa halyard winch, bow pulpit, reefing gear for mainsail, wire and new Spectra jib and main halyards, forward hatch, teak cabin top handrails; all teak varnished with 15 coats of varnish (Sanded between each coat!); mainsail with 1 set of reef points; jiffy reefing setup; 110% Working Jib; 155% Genoa (the 155% is made of ultralight cloth (somewhat comparable with Mylar) for light air); 80% Jib ; Trailer, with front mast support built onto trailer; built-in trailer tongue extension; electric winch mounted on trailer to load boat and raise mast; mounted spare wheel and tire (brand new); folding trailer jack/wheel; great keel guides mounted on trailer to make launching and retrieval simple and quick; trailer sandblasted and repainted 2/94; (will show you how to launch the boat and be sailing away from the dock in less than 15 minutes, retrieve in less than 5 minutes!); electrical boat package (masthead tricolor light, fluorescent cabin light, 6 pole switch panel, master switch with terminals for two batteries, battery box, marine battery; Forespar combo deck light and steaming light mounted on mast) installed Porta-Potti, roller bearing main traveler; Harken cleats for traveler; anchor, anchor rode - 150'; anchor chain - 8'; Autohelm 800 remote control; Autohelm 800 (autopilot);Autohelm power receptacle (mounted in cockpit); stainless steel mast plate for mounting all turning blocks; numerous Harken blocks added; camcleat mounted on transom for rudder lifting line; just replaced all jam cleats, large lighted Plastimo Compass; Depth sounder; SR Mariner knot meter, fenders (2);fire extinguisher; Orion 12 ga. flare gun & flares; Flood light(s) 125,000 CP; forestay - extra; Tempo 3 gal gas tank, two gear hammocks mounted inside cabin; Genoa track slides; grease gun for trailer wheels; fog horn, aluminum folding ladder on transom; life cushions (4); life vests Type II; 750,000 CP floodlight; lighter socket (12 v) mounted in cockpit; Marlin shore power receptacle mounted on boat; 110 grounded outlet inside boat; new mainsheet traveler line; Loran, (if you want it!); Loran antenna; up; motor mount - adjustable; various Nicro and Harken blocks installed; ouboard 5.5 Johnson long shaft; Quick pins throughout the boat (for mainsheet block at traveler on deck; forestay at tack; for main sheet block on boom); reefing hook; safety harness; sail ties; scrub brush with handle; Shroud covers for shrouds and backstay ;SOS flag; spreader boots; new polished stainless steel tiller strap for rudder; steaming light; tack hook; tie down straps for trailer/boat; tiller extension (Forespar extending); VHF antenna mounted on mast; VHF radio cable to deck and from deck to top of mast; VHF connector for thru deck; VHF Radio; voltmeter, installed in cabin; whisker pole, extending; winch handle holder; Windex (with extension mount); Harken blocks for twings (2); blocks, Harken blocks, for spinnaker (2); boom vang; fire extinguisher; two sets of jib sheets; Jib downhaul line; line topping lift; line with hook to raise outboard; spinnaker sheet(s); paddle; shore adapters; shore power cord; small spot light; SOS flag; beautiful colorful spinnaker; spinnaker pole; spinnaker sheets; strobe light $13,000. If interested Email, or phone 916/962-1573, or fax 916/961-1453. --pxqjokqpoekpksaxubghaaobkkuomj-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff <102562.2650@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: New to list, Looking for a M-17 Date: 16 Oct 1997 19:17:16 -0400 David, I have some info on the 23's for sale in the US..There were only 18 made, and I have been working on finding every one of them....One is wisconsin one in So Cal, one in Tucson., The AZ boat is a different breed, purely a race boat. I just sold hull #1 for a fellow in Oregon. If you want more info, write me....Larry Barkhuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: New to list, Looking for a M-17 Date: 16 Oct 1997 17:56:11 -0600 Hi David, welcome aboard. If you're looking for an M23, I recently had the opportunity to see Randy's boat near Minneapolis. It's in wonderful shape and offered at a very attractive price. If my wife were willing, I'd buy it myself. He's on the list, or you can email him at palmrs@cvfn.org. ---------- > From: DHUNT > To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: New to list, Looking for a M-17 > Date: Thursday, October 16, 1997 3:13 PM > > I am also interested in knowing more about the M-23. Do you know > where I can view photos & specs for one... > > Thanks alot - this is a very nice users group / list ! Any help finding a M > would be much appreciated - I'll travel & tow for a vg. to xlnt. M. - Email > me anytime. > > David Hunt > 934 Elm > Coeurd'Alene, Idaho 83814 > > dhunt@sd271.k12.id.us > > 208-765-3496 - H > 208-769-0726 - W (8-4 Pacific, M-F) > 208-660-8498 - Cell, eves when not home > > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by > the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did > do...so...Explore. Dream. Discover." > > - Mark Twain > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: XLNT M17 FOR SALE Date: 16 Oct 1997 17:59:33 -0600 What format are your file attachments in? ---------- > From: J Townley > To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: XLNT M17 FOR SALE > Date: Thursday, October 16, 1997 3:59 PM > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: M_Boats: Opps! XLNT M-17 Date: 16 Oct 1997 19:49:48 -0500 (CDT) Incudes blue sheer strake; white hull, two sheet winches, Genoa halyard winch, bow pulpit, reefing gear for mainsail, wire and new Spectra jib and main halyards, forward hatch, teak cabin top handrails; all teak varnished with 15 coats of varnish (Sanded between each coat!); mainsail with 1 set of reef points; jiffy reefing setup; 110% Working Jib; 155% Genoa (the 155% is made of ultralight cloth (somewhat comparable with Mylar) for light air); 80% Jib ; Trailer, with front mast support built onto trailer; built-in trailer tongue extension; electric winch mounted on trailer to load boat and raise mast; mounted spare wheel and tire (brand new); folding trailer jack/wheel; great keel guides mounted on trailer to make launching and retrieval simple and quick; trailer sandblasted and repainted 2/94; (will show you how to launch the boat and be sailing away from the dock in less than 15 minutes, retrieve in less than 5 minutes!); electrical boat package (masthead tricolor light, fluorescent cabin light, 6 pole switch panel, master switch with terminals for two batteries, battery box, marine battery; Forespar combo deck light and steaming light mounted on mast) installed Porta-Potti, roller bearing main traveler; Harken cleats for traveler; anchor, anchor rode - 150'; anchor chain - 8'; Autohelm 800 remote control; Autohelm 800 (autopilot);Autohelm power receptacle (mounted in cockpit); stainless steel mast plate for mounting all turning blocks; numerous Harken blocks added; camcleat mounted on transom for rudder lifting line; just replaced all jam cleats, large lighted Plastimo Compass; Depth sounder; SR Mariner knot meter, fenders (2);fire extinguisher; Orion 12 ga. flare gun & flares; Flood light(s) 125,000 CP; forestay - extra; Tempo 3 gal gas tank, two gear hammocks mounted inside cabin; Genoa track slides; grease gun for trailer wheels; fog horn, aluminum folding ladder on transom; life cushions (4); life vests Type II; 750,000 CP floodlight; lighter socket (12 v) mounted in cockpit; Marlin shore power receptacle mounted on boat; 110 grounded outlet inside boat; new mainsheet traveler line; Loran, (if you want it!); Loran antenna; up; motor mount - adjustable; various Nicro and Harken blocks installed; ouboard 5.5 Johnson long shaft; Quick pins throughout the boat (for mainsheet block at traveler on deck; forestay at tack; for main sheet block on boom); reefing hook; safety harness; sail ties; scrub brush with handle; Shroud covers for shrouds and backstay ;SOS flag; spreader boots; new polished stainless steel tiller strap for rudder; steaming light; tack hook; tie down straps for trailer/boat; tiller extension (Forespar extending); VHF antenna mounted on mast; VHF radio cable to deck and from deck to top of mast; VHF connector for thru deck; VHF Radio; voltmeter, installed in cabin; whisker pole, extending; winch handle holder; Windex (with extension mount); Harken blocks for twings (2); blocks, Harken blocks, for spinnaker (2); boom vang; fire extinguisher; two sets of jib sheets; Jib downhaul line; line topping lift; line with hook to raise outboard; spinnaker sheet(s); paddle; shore adapters; shore power cord; small spot light; SOS flag; beautiful colorful spinnaker; spinnaker pole; spinnaker sheets; strobe light; 110 v inverter (for the blender) $13,000. If interested Email, or phone 916/962-1573, or fax 916/961-1453. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: schwarze@VAX2.WINONA.MSUS.EDU (Terry Schwarze) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17s for sale Date: 16 Oct 1997 20:01:31 -0600 Tom, Well, yes and no! I am selling my M17.. but.. i want to replace it with an M8 or M10. I do love the 17, but can't justify two (and hopefully three) boats in the great north waters. terry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DHUNT Subject: M_Boats: New to list, Looking for a M-17 -Reply Date: 17 Oct 1997 07:22:41 -0700 ** High Priority ** Hello Larry, Thanks for the msg. I would love whatever info. you have on the 23's - and especially any info on 23's for sale. Email or Snail Mail.. David Hunt 934 Elm Coeurd'Alene, Idaho 83814 dhunt@sd271.k12.id.us 208-765-3496 - H 208-769-0726 - W (8-4 Pacific, M-F) 208-660-8498 - Cell, eves when not home "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do...so...Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain >>> Larry Barkhuff <102562.2650@compuserve.com> 10/16/97 04:17pm >>> David, I have some info on the 23's for sale in the US..There were only 18 made, and I have been working on finding every one of them....One is wisconsin one in So Cal, one in Tucson., The AZ boat is a different breed, purely a race boat. I just sold hull #1 for a fellow in Oregon. If you want more info, write me....Larry Barkhuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DHUNT Subject: Re: M_Boats: New to list, Looking for a M-17 -Reply Date: 17 Oct 1997 07:25:55 -0700 ** High Priority ** Hi Keith, I'll Email Randy for his info. David >>> "Keith Diehl" 10/16/97 04:56pm >>> Hi David, welcome aboard. If you're looking for an M23, I recently had the opportunity to see Randy's boat near Minneapolis. It's in wonderful shape and offered at a very attractive price. If my wife were willing, I'd buy it myself. He's on the list, or you can email him at palmrs@cvfn.org. ---------- > From: DHUNT > To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: New to list, Looking for a M-17 > Date: Thursday, October 16, 1997 3:13 PM > > I am also interested in knowing more about the M-23. Do you know > where I can view photos & specs for one... > > Thanks alot - this is a very nice users group / list ! Any help finding a M > would be much appreciated - I'll travel & tow for a vg. to xlnt. M. - Email > me anytime. > > David Hunt > 934 Elm > Coeurd'Alene, Idaho 83814 > > dhunt@sd271.k12.id.us > > 208-765-3496 - H > 208-769-0726 - W (8-4 Pacific, M-F) > 208-660-8498 - Cell, eves when not home > > "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by > the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did > do...so...Explore. Dream. Discover." > > - Mark Twain > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery 6'8" Date: 17 Oct 1997 11:11:35 +0000 Hi group! I received a call from Roger Olson today. He owns Sam Morse Co., builders of the Bristol Channel Cutter. He was wondering if I would post a message on this board looking for a Montgomery 6'8" dingy. He just sold 'Serafynn' (lin and larry Pardeys around the world 24' Cutter) and the new owner would like a Montgomery six foot, eight inch (?) dingy. (over the forward hatch) Thanks again Seas the Day Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (714)489-8227 PS. It looks like the M_17 will be our first built M_boat! Details to follow! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery 6'8" Date: 17 Oct 1997 11:52:08 -0700 Robert Eeg wrote: > > Hi group! > I received a call from Roger Olson today. He owns Sam Morse Co., > builders of the Bristol Channel Cutter. > He was wondering if I would post a message on this board looking for > a Montgomery 6'8" dingy. He just sold 'Serafynn' (lin and larry Pardeys > around the world 24' Cutter) and the new owner would like a Montgomery > six foot, eight inch (?) dingy. (over the forward hatch) > Thanks again > Seas the Day > Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (714)489-8227 > PS. It looks like the M_17 will be our first built M_boat! > Details to follow! Bob: Way to go!! What is the projected sales price on the M-17? Bob Fisher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17s for sale Date: 17 Oct 1997 14:16:33 -0600 Terry and Randy, this is your chance to play musical boats...David wants a 23, Tom wants a 17, Terry wants Randy's dinghy, Randy wants to sell his 23, Terry has a 17 for sale if he had a dinghy.....and away you go! ---------- > From: Terry Schwarze > To: montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17s for sale > Date: Thursday, October 16, 1997 8:01 PM > > Tom, > > Well, yes and no! > I am selling my M17.. but.. i want to replace it with an M8 or M10. I do > love the 17, but can't justify two (and hopefully three) boats in the great > north waters. > > terry > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: My centerboard fell off! Date: 17 Oct 1997 19:36:21 +0000 Giles Get a new board from Bob Eeg; the shape is critical. Regards breaking, I wonder if someone untied the stopper knot in the pennant. If I remember right, the knot, when placed correctly, allows 15" of drop and no more. Several times in the past boards have broken because someone untied the knot, apparently thinking it was left there carelessly by a previous owner ("what knot"). W/O this knot the board is free to swing fore and aft with only the short distance between the pin and the foreward end of the trunk to stop it from swinging forward. Same goes for 17s after about #330. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: My centerboard fell off! Date: 20 Oct 1997 10:44:13 -0400 Hi, Jerry - and thank you for replying. It's not impossible that the board has been abused in the past, I bought the boat in July of this year. Amount of drop on the pennant to the knot looks like about 15 inches. The board broke, oddly enough, while motoring when I moved into deeper water and decided to get a little extra maneuverability by lowering it. I believe that I was very lucky because the pennant did not break and I was able to recover the board. I did not realize that the amount of drop is critical, but will make sure that it is not exceeded by the new one. Given that I had the board as a pattern I considered asking somebody to fab a plate to that size/shape, and clean up the edges to round them off a bit. But I suspected that if that was the best way to do it, then you would have done it that way. The other issue was that if the plate was as thick as the original board than it would be rather heavy (I _really_ like not needing a winch for it) and if it was thin enough to be manageable it would not prevent water from crawling up the cockpit drain. I also want to let you know that you built a boat that I am really proud of. It's a beautiful little ship, and I'm glad that they are coming back into production. Were I you, I would be very happy to have left such a mark on the world. Giles -----Original Message----- From: jerry montgomery [SMTP:jmbn@innercite.com] Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 3:36 PM To: montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: My centerboard fell off! Giles Get a new board from Bob Eeg; the shape is critical. Regards breaking, I wonder if someone untied the stopper knot in the pennant. If I remember right, the knot, when placed correctly, allows 15" of drop and no more. Several times in the past boards have broken because someone untied the knot, apparently thinking it was left there carelessly by a previous owner ("what knot"). W/O this knot the board is free to swing fore and aft with only the short distance between the pin and the foreward end of the trunk to stop it from swinging forward. Same goes for 17s after about #330. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher) Subject: M_Boats: M17 Center board Date: 20 Oct 1997 07:53:34 -0700 To All. I had Driscoll Marine in San Diego hall our boat and paint the bottom. While the boat was hauled they sanded the center board and applied apoxy. It works just fine and does not stick. I am thinking about selling the boat. We need more room. Anyone interested should contact me. Bob Fisher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Daly" Subject: M_Boats: boom vang Date: 20 Oct 1997 09:05:17 -0600 I am thinking about buying a boom vang for my 17. Recommendations?? Do you use one? If so, which one? Size? Etc. Thanks ahead of time. JED James E. Daly Department of Mathematics University of Colorado Colorado Springs, CO 80933-7150 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang Date: 20 Oct 1997 09:42:54 -0600 Jim, On our M-15, we have both a boom vang and a Cunningham (I hope I am calling it by it's correct name, it's the mechanical device for pulling straight down on the boom goose neck to tension the mast end of the main sail). I have found the Cunningham more useful than the vang. Seems on the M-15 the main sheet traveler does a pretty good job of keeping the boom level. But I need the added mechanical advantage to properly tension the mast end of the main sail. Randy G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang Date: 21 Oct 1997 03:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Mr. Daly, I am in the boat business so what I have to say about these matters is of no more import than the next person excepting over the years of sailing ,selling, fixing etc., we have learned some. A vang is important on a M-17 due to the nature of the original style mainsheet. The purchase should be approx. 3x to 4x (be easy with a 4x) and as close to a 45 degree angle as possible. May I suggest a small pair of fiddle blocks w/ bearings of some sort (due to potential loading),((Harken 054 and 057)) one with an integral cleat (not a jam type), and one with a becket, both w/ swivels. 3/16" to 5/16" low stretch line, installing the fiddle w/cleat at the boom so the tail of the line hangs down and over the hatch. I also have a different type of mainsheet rig on my M-17 than was originally offered. Probably suited to racing although I believe in making all of my boats as simple as possible (but adjustable). It is a split tail type of 'system' currently in use on Snipes and C-15's. I have used it for a while now and will stick with it as I am impressed. We are also installing a Boomkicker 750 w /lightweight rods inside the vang. Will report later. Write if you have any questions. Gary Oberbeck, Arizona Yacht Sales M-17 # 319 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: M_Boats: Umiaq on The Bay Date: 21 Oct 1997 12:04:42 -0400 Umiaq is Montgomery 15 #264. I bought the boat in July of this year. On Wednesday October I launched Umiaq at Backyard Boats in Shadyside MD. The marina was carefully selected to meet the strict requirement of answering their phone when I called to ask if they had a ramp and saying "yes" when I asked if I could leave the boat there for a couple of days before I started my trip. It turns out that they're pretty nice people there. For those who almost know the area, Shadyside is at the entrance to the West River, giving easy access to Chesapeake Bay a little south of Annapolis. The launch turned into more of a performance than it should have done because the engine was even less cooperative than usual. After sawing away at the starter, cleaning plugs, fiddling with the carburetor and cursing the very idea of the two-stroke cycle I sailed (as opposed to motored) away from the dock only to find that 1) I had missed the entrance to the slip I had been assigned for a couple of days and 2) the centerboard wouldn't come down. I spent the next hour or so trying to beat back against the wind + current. Eventually, the board freed off and I was quickly where I wanted to be. The next day was the first of the Annapolis sailboat show, where I saw many wonderful boats (plus a few dogs) but not a single small boat that could hold a candle to Umiaq (well, perhaps one). I also realized that I had been right when I swore 20 years ago that I would never own another two-stoke motor, and became the proud owner of a Honda 5HP four-stroke motor. Anybody want to buy a 1993 Johnson 4.0 DeLuxe, low hours, perfectly in tune (at least, it will be before I sell it) and in as good condition as a two-stroke can be? "It's a nice evening", I thought. "I'll just go and make sure that the boat's OK before I go home. Perhaps have a quiet snack on board". Right. I found a foot of water in the cabin and isolated a point where a fitting had been screwed onto the hull and then removed as the point of failure. So I had a pleasant evening bailing and drying out. Just as well that I'd gone down, though, or the next day would have been less than perfect, probably involving large pumps. As it turned out, the next day was very close to perfect. After leaving my family at the airport for their trip and picking up the new engine I finally got under way at about noon, and was very quickly able to douse the iron topsail as I entered the Bay. I suppose that it's about 10-15 miles across the Bay at that point, and I headed across towards the Poplar Islands. I had been concerned about crossing the shipping lanes, but no big deal (hint: If you are among the crab pot buoys, the ships can't get to you). The wind was just great, and the swell was enough to keep the boat feeling alive. The first mistake of the day was when I headed south to go round Tilghman Island instead of passing through Knapps Narrows. This mistake meant that I was at Sharps Island lighthouse (yes, I know, but it seemed a shame to be so near but not go and look at it) at sunset. Some mistakes are a good idea, and this one meant that I spent a while hove-to watching the sun go down on the water and the cormorants settling down for the night. The lighthouse is tilted over at quite an angle after being hit by ice floes a few years ago and is picturesque in an unbalanced sort of way. The time spent fitting proper running lights paid off as I chugged up the east side of Tilghman Island in a flat calm in the dark. Just a little south of Knapps Narrows is Dogwood Harbor and Harrison's Hotel. After plowing through the mud for a while I was able to tie up next to some workboats and go for one of the nicest meals that I remember. Harrisons is highly recommended if you are in the area. The second mistake of the day may have been deciding not to find a quiet corner of Dogwood Harbor to anchor for the night - I went a little offshore to escape the sound of Tilghman youth burning rubber on the main drag. And there I was for my first night on my new boat. I immediately learned that what I had learned kayak camping is equally true on a larger boat: The less you have, the more you can find, so the more you have. I had so much that I had almost nothing. No matter, Umiaq's cabin is incredibly cozy and comfortable. Next morning found me bouncing around considerably with the freshened (and changed) wind. This was a fast (as in, no eating) day, which made breakfast very simple. We (Umiaq and I) were soon sailing off across the Choptank towards the mouth of Broad Creek. I'd decided that the town of Saint Michaels was a good place to head for, and although it is on the Miles River it is on a narrow isthmus, and you can also approach it from the other side on Broad Creek to San Domingo Creek. The Miles River is busy and noisy, filled with boats of all types and sizes, while San Domingo Creek is quiet and peaceful. After a few hours just blissfully sailing about, the wind died away to nothing and I put in the last few miles courtesy of the Honda Motor Corporation. When I've visited here before it's been on a much larger boat, which meant anchoring, inflating the dink and rowing to the dock used by the workboats. Umiaq has no problem going right to the dinghy dock. Unfortunately, I managed to pick up a large amount of heavy duty fishing line on the prop, and before I realized what had happened it was so thoroughly wrapped up that I had to bring the engine inboard and remove the propeller to clear it. The line was even wrapped around the shear pin! This brings me to the only problem that I have identified with the Honda outboard - it's heavy. I'm not sure how much the Johnson 4HP weighs, but it's considerably less than the Honda 5's 61 pounds. Anyway, all soon became well, and I hit the town for dinner/breakfast. The bar at the City Dock (Miles River side) does a good tuna sandwich, and I did justice to it. Pleasant walk around the town and back to the dock in the moonlight. As I headed towards one of the deserted (shallow) side creeks I lowered the centerboard for a little extra stability, and... CLUNK. It was immediately obvious that the thing was dangling below the boat from its pennant. &^%$#@! Oh, well. Nothing to be done tonight. I passed a very peaceful night and woke to the sunrise clearing the mist from the water as squadrons of geese flew overhead. Back to the shallow water at the dock, dropped the centerboard pennant, and I was able to recover the board without even getting my knees wet. Yep, it's broken. For the rest of the trip, the centerboard formed an impromptu cockpit grating. Interestingly enough, I found that without a centerboard in the housing the cockpit drain becomes a decorative fountain when under way. Some rags stuffed into the drain kept it mostly closed. The rest of the day was spent generally lazing around St Michaels and the boat, and the evening was brightened when a friend arrived unexpectedly aboard his Pacific Seacraft 27 footer. I passed the night rafted up to his boat which felt, in comparison, like a large building - it doesn't move when you step aboard. The next day was the long trip. From St Michaels to Galesville on the West River via Knapps Narrows. The first hour or so involved motoring down to the open part of the Choptank River, where I found a fleet of work boats tonging for oysters. On a day like that (light wind, pleasant temperature, clear skies) it looked idyllic, but hard work. On a cold wet day with the boat jumping all over the place it must be just hard work. Shortly afterwards I happened on a Skipjack under sail. What a splendid sight! And how lucky to see a working craft under sail. Knapps Narrows turned out to be no problem, and I was soon out in the open bay on a broad reach with a freshening wind. I regretted not having made lunch beforehand because the boat was jumping around too much to do other than eat handfuls of stuff. Although the Montgomery is an amazingly sea-kindly craft it is only 15 feet long and fairly light. It cannot help but be lively. By the time I arrived at Galesville I had been under way for nine hours, some of them quite bouncy, and was getting a little tired. The lack of a centerboard had definitely affected the boat, but the shoal keel was enough to sail pretty well. Come to think of it, that's all that many boats ever have. So... what did I learn? A 15 foot boat is plenty large enough to make multi-day cruises, in fact if you approach it from the backpacking or kayak camping point of view it is pretty luxurious. The cabin of the Montgomery is comfortable, and I would have no qualms in going out on large water in this boat. Is there room for two? Sure, there is plenty of room for one, and I see no reason why another could not fit in. There are a few detail changes I am going to make, including moving the anchor to a pulpit mount and moving the mainsheet to the transom so that it isn't in the middle of the companionway, but in general it's hard to believe how good that little boat is. The 4-stroke motor is a big improvement on the 2-stroke. Although it isn't quieter or smoother, the sound is less annoying - and it is nice to know that it's going to start. I know that a 2-stroke can be set up to start and run well (I've done it, and will with the Johnson before I sell it), but it's the nature of the beast to be quirky. I've lived in the Washington area for 14 years now, and the entire trip was within a short drive from home - but with my small sailboat I was able to see things that I would have missed if I lived here a hundred years. I also enjoy kayaking in this area, but the sailboat gives me the added freedom of stopping without setting up camp. Perhaps I should use my 17 ft kayak as a tender to my 15ft sailboat. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: boom vang Date: 21 Oct 1997 11:10:12 -0700 AZYacht@aol.com wrote: > > Mr. Daly, > I am in the boat business so what I have to say about these matters is of no > more import than the next person excepting over the years of sailing > ,selling, fixing etc., we have learned some. > > A vang is important on a M-17 due to the nature of the original style > mainsheet. > The purchase should be approx. 3x to 4x (be easy with a 4x) and as close to a > 45 degree angle as possible. May I suggest a small pair of fiddle blocks w/ > bearings of some sort (due to potential loading),((Harken 054 and 057)) one > with an integral cleat (not a jam type), and one with a becket, both w/ > swivels. 3/16" to 5/16" low stretch line, installing the fiddle w/cleat at > the boom so the tail of the line hangs down and over the hatch. > > I also have a different type of mainsheet rig on my M-17 than was originally > offered. Probably suited to racing although I believe in making all of my > boats as simple as possible (but adjustable). It is a split tail type of > 'system' currently in use on Snipes and C-15's. I have used it for a while > now and will stick with it as I am impressed. > We are also installing a Boomkicker 750 w /lightweight rods inside the vang. > Will report later. Write if you have any questions. > Gary Oberbeck, Arizona Yacht Sales > M-17 # 319 I installed a Forespar spring loaded vang with a 3 part tackle on my M-23, it is invaluable when reefing. I think a 4 part would be better though I worry about the goose neck strength. Dick Lane, Sadhana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: New subscriber Date: 21 Oct 1997 12:30:29 -0700 (PDT) I am a new subscriber and the welocme message said to post something about mysef. Well I am basically looking at small trailerable boats for a small family with small kids. I am not looking at open boats I want at least a cudy cabin. I was refered here by a Montgomery owner who also reads and posts in the West Wight Potter mailing list. I will probaby just listen in, so to speak, ask a few questions. I have some experience with mechanical things like small motors but I am not a mechanic. I enjoy sailing, but am also looking for a "kind" boat to introduce my childern and wife to. Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher) Subject: Re: M_Boats: New subscriber Date: 21 Oct 1997 14:46:56 -0700 sparhawk@value.net wrote: > > I am a new subscriber and the welocme message said to post something about > mysef. Well I am basically looking at small trailerable boats for a small > family with small kids. I am not looking at open boats I want at least a > cudy cabin. I was refered here by a Montgomery owner who also reads and > posts in the West Wight Potter mailing list. > > I will probaby just listen in, so to speak, ask a few questions. I have > some experience with mechanical things like small motors but I am not a > mechanic. I enjoy sailing, but am also looking for a "kind" boat to > introduce my childern and wife to. > > Nathan Nathan: Welcome! you found the right group and the perfect boat. Ask as many questions as you like. Bob Fisher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: New subscriber Date: 21 Oct 1997 16:12:00 -0600 Welcome, Nathan, I hope we can persuade you to stay away from those Potters! There are some Montgomery pictures on my home page if you're not familiar with the boat. Also, If you'll let us know what part of the country you're in, maybe we have a member near you. Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl ---------- > From: sparhawk@value.net > To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: New subscriber > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 1:30 PM > > I am a new subscriber and the welocme message said to post something about > mysef. Well I am basically looking at small trailerable boats for a small > family with small kids. I am not looking at open boats I want at least a > cudy cabin. I was refered here by a Montgomery owner who also reads and > posts in the West Wight Potter mailing list. > > I will probaby just listen in, so to speak, ask a few questions. I have > some experience with mechanical things like small motors but I am not a > mechanic. I enjoy sailing, but am also looking for a "kind" boat to > introduce my childern and wife to. > > Nathan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vic DeHaven" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Umiaq on The Bay Date: 21 Oct 1997 15:11:58 PDT Hello Morris, Having lived in Oxford, Maryland I really enjoyed the story of your trip across the bay. I lived for a whole year once on a Venture 21. Fortunately my Evinrude 6 hp auxillary was very reliable. Thirsty sucker though. This winter I am researching all sourches for info on my next "pocket cruiser". Cindy Tu will be put into service next year on the Fla coast for a summer's cruise in the Bahamas. Yes I WILL have to really watch my weather...... In view of that. How much does a nice little M boat go for???? And I wish someone would tell me how to reply to the author without bothering everyone else on the M boat list?? I'v already caused enough trouble for one week! ---------- > > Umiaq is Montgomery 15 #264. I bought the boat in July of this year. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Umiaq on The Bay Date: 21 Oct 1997 16:19:46 -0600 You're not bothering anyone, but the list is set up such that clicking your "reply to author" button, or whatever, will sent your message back to the list. If your intent is to send a private email to the actual author of a message, you'll have to manually replace the m-boats address with the author's address in the "TO" field of your reply. Hope that's helpful. ---------- > From: Vic DeHaven > And I wish someone would tell me how to reply to the author without > bothering everyone else on the M boat list?? I'v already caused enough > trouble for one week! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Bunting Subject: M_Boats: M15 spinnaker advice? Date: 21 Oct 1997 16:51:13 -0700 I'm thinking about buying a new suit of Pineapple sails to replace the original 1986 McKibben's on my M15, and considering adding a traditional symmetrical spinnaker to improve downwind performance. I'm wondering if anyone else has done this, and dealt with some of the issues like ... - Where to lead the spinnaker halyard on the mast? Since the M15 has no backstay, I assume this block should not go above the shroud attach- ments to the unsupported masthead? - How to mount the pole attachment ring to the mast, and how high? Is it necessary for this to be adjustable if only 1 spinnaker is being used? - Length of the pole, and requirements for topping lift and foreguy? - New hardware to lead the spinnaker sheets aft? In particular, can the blocks simply be attached to the existing stern cleats? - Sources for sail and hardware? Does IM offer a spinnaker option for the WW Potter? BTW, I don't think I want an asymmetrical/cruising spinnaker. I assume that we can set, douse, and jibe a traditional poled spinnaker from the companionway while sailing doublehanded, without the need for anyone to go forward on deck to handle headsails - can someone confirm this? Thanks, -gwb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 spinnaker advice? Date: 21 Oct 1997 16:58:45 -0700 George Bunting wrote: > > I'm thinking about buying a new suit of Pineapple sails to replace the > original 1986 McKibben's on my M15, and considering adding a traditional > symmetrical spinnaker to improve downwind performance. I'm wondering if > anyone else has done this, and dealt with some of the issues like ... > > - Where to lead the spinnaker halyard on the mast? Since the M15 has no > backstay, I assume this block should not go above the shroud attach- > ments to the unsupported masthead? > > - How to mount the pole attachment ring to the mast, and how high? Is > it necessary for this to be adjustable if only 1 spinnaker is being > used? > > - Length of the pole, and requirements for topping lift and foreguy? > > - New hardware to lead the spinnaker sheets aft? In particular, can > the blocks simply be attached to the existing stern cleats? > > - Sources for sail and hardware? Does IM offer a spinnaker option for > the WW Potter? > > BTW, I don't think I want an asymmetrical/cruising spinnaker. I assume > that we can set, douse, and jibe a traditional poled spinnaker from the > companionway while sailing doublehanded, without the need for anyone to > go forward on deck to handle headsails - can someone confirm this? > > Thanks, > -gwb I recall Jerry Montgomery had a few comments on this topic. Perhaps you could search the archives or e-mail Jerry directly. He may reply, he is a memeber of the list. Bob Fisher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Bunting Subject: M_Boats: One more M15 question (actually 2 8-) Date: 21 Oct 1997 17:13:48 -0700 Lights: Any advice re appropriate batteries, lights, and wiring for the M15? Also how to route power to a steaming light on a mast that is raised and lowered for trailering? Trailer: Does anyone have contact information for EZ Loader, or a N. California dealer that can repair them? I've had to replace the front rollers with temporary bunks, and I'd like to restore them to ease launch and recovery. Thanks again, gwb@slip.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Bunting Subject: M_Boats: M15 Performance enhancements? Date: 21 Oct 1997 17:25:57 -0700 I'm also thinking about adding a traveler and/or boom vang to my stock M15, and wondering if anyone has advice or experience along these lines. For example, - Will a stern-mounted Harken traveler setup offer enough improvement in sail trim over the current rope bridle to justify the effort and expense? - Will the addition of a vang improve downwind performance, and maybe help to keep the main from laying on the shrouds so soon? - Will either of these improve windward performance, reducing heeling by flattening the main and allowing it to be sheeted out with less twist? - Any advice re adding a second reef to the main, in particular is there any clever way to use the same jiffy reefing line and attachments for both, or must this all be duplicated? Thanks, -gwb@slip.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: One more M15 question (actually 2 8-) Date: 21 Oct 1997 19:55:45 -0600 George, Our M-15 (#407) has a tri-color mast head light and about 3/4 up the mast a small white light that I thought to be an anchor light. We also have our antenna mounted a top the mast. We are the 2nd owner, but I believe the 12 volt wiring is factory. At the base of the mast we have a 4 prong water proof connector for 12 power up the mast. The connector has enough of a pig tail on each end to allow for raising and lower of the mast without damaging the connector or wire. The wire passes through the cabin top near the base of the mast (along with the antenna coax), run along the ceiling of the cabin, over towards the port window, then works it way down the inside of the hull to the switch panel. The switch panel is located on the port side of the area reserved for the port-a-potty and accessible from the interior port locker. The wires are enclosed in a plastic spiral casing and attached every few inches to the interior. I believe this is the factory installation. The plastic spiral wrap give the wires a finished look. Hope this helps, Randy G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: New subscriber Date: 21 Oct 1997 20:05:43 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Keith Diehl wrote: > Welcome, Nathan, I hope we can persuade you to stay away > from those Potters! > > There are some Montgomery pictures on my home page if > you're not familiar with the boat. Also, If you'll let us > know what part of the country you're in, maybe we have a > member near you. > > I live in Northern California near Sacramento. It is nice 2 hours from the bay, 3-4 hours to the "Lost Coast" (Fort Bragg-Eureka), and about an hour to any one of half a dozen small lakes. Almost forgot minutes to the delta (about an hour to the middle of it) with over 1000 miles of waterways. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slyingst@sonic.net (Stephen Yingst & Christina Barasch) Subject: Re: M_Boats: One more M15 question (actually 2 8-) Date: 21 Oct 1997 20:07:38 -0700 Actually Randy, the light on the front of the mast is a steaming light; it's used when under power at night, along with regular running lights. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: New subscriber Date: 21 Oct 1997 23:58:03 -0400 Hi Nathan.. Welcome to the group. I was like you 2 years ago, imbued with the Potter mystique, and asking questions on Compuserve about small sailboats. I quickly learned from assorted small boat owners (including a former WWP-15 owner) that the Potter was the Yugo of sailboats. I was not impressed with the quality of construction of a new P-19 that I saw, and I wasn't anywhere near an "expert" then I read about Compacs, Precisions, Catalinas and Capris (I learned on a 22 ft. Capri)...but no Montgomeries. At the St Petersberg Sail Expo, I sailed in a Compac 16 Raven, and spent a lot of time in a Precision P-165 (16.5 ft) and P-18. I liked the P-18, and decided to actively look for a used one. About this time, Larry Barkhuff and I started talking on CI$ about the Montgomery 17. He was kind enough to send me some pix of one (in Michigan), and then a copy of the sales brochure. I decided to add it to the P-18 for consideration if I could find one. Another friend sent me a copy of the Florida Sailboat Trader with several P-18's listed. Looked thru it, and there was a M-17 near the end of the book. I called, and it was still available! I quickly had U-haul install a trailer hitch, contacted 2 likely P-18's for insurance, liquidated my savings account, and went to Ft. Myers. Saw the M-17 in the water, stepped aboard, and said "self, if this sails as good as it feels, and the bottom is reasonably free of major blisters..she's mine. The sail was uneventful in light air, and NO BLISTERS when we pulled it out of the water. Needless to say, I bought her on the spot. With the original Trailrite trailer, she followed me home like a dream..never knew that it was there, and the wheel bearings stayed cool the whole 500+ miles at speeds to 65 mph. She's very stable..a major consideration for me with 4 grandkids (now 5) that are under 5 yrs old, even tho I only take them afloat 1 at a time. At times, I've yearned for a M-15 for solo sails, and a M-23 for family sails, but the M-17 is almost an ideal compromise. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 22 Oct 1997 10:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Has anyone replaced the hatchboards and/or the tiller on an M17? I mistakenly sanded the original hatchboards and now, 10 years later, they are starting to come apart. I'm also thinking about having 3 boards instead of the two that came with the boat to make it easier to store them while underway. The tiller cracked during a race in strong winds. I clamped and glued it back together, but really don't trust it. I couldn't find a replacement so I bought a Catalina 22 tiller, routing out space on it's stock for the plates to fit snugly. It works rather well, but does take up more room in the cockpit, and I'd rather have the proper tiller anyway. I am planning a trip from Key West to the Dry Tortugas in April, and any Montgomery owner is welcome to come along. I will have an article in the next MON with more details. Thanks, John ("Miss T" # 372) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: M15 spinnaker advice? Date: 22 Oct 1997 10:53:41 -0400 Umiaq has what appears to be an original spinnaker installation. I haven't used it, but can describe the setup. >Where to lead the spinnaker halyard on the mast? Since there is no additional halyard I suspect that the jib halyard was used > How to mount the pole attachment ring to the mast, and how high? There is a fitting on each side of the mast. I can check the height tonight. > Length of the pole, and requirements for topping lift and foreguy? I'll measure it tonight. No sign of the other items > New hardware to lead the spinnaker sheets aft? There is a small jam cleat with an integrated fairlead about six inches in front of each stern cleat. That would be it. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: One more M15 question (actually 2 8-) Date: 22 Oct 1997 11:09:19 -0400 >Any advice re appropriate batteries, lights, and wiring for the M15? >Also how to route power to a steaming light on a mast that is raised >and lowered for trailering? "Umiaq" has two large batteries fitted by the original owner for an electric motor. They live under the fore end of the cockpit. I spent a couple of days rewiring the boat, and although it wasn't particularly hard or expensive, it wasn't the best fun that I remember recently. I bought Hella lights from West Marine, they're about the same as the Aqua Signal series 25. The stern light went onto the transom without problem. The bow bi-color went onto the pulpit, but if I were to do it again I would buy the real mount instead of fiddling around with bolts and hose clips. The steaming light and anchor light both went at the masthead (although I was tempted to put the steaming light at the point where the forestay meets the mast). The steaming light mounted on an Aqua Signal mount intended for the purpose, but I had to make a mount for the anchor light (from an aluminum project case bought from Radio Shack). The cables enter and exit the mast through grommeted holes. At the base it terminates in a 3-conductor trailer light connector whose mate is attached to a cable that passes through the cabin top near the mast step. If you have problems passing the wire through the mast, get some nylon cord through first. The cord can be encouraged by attaching a vacuum cleaner to one end to suck it through. I'm very glad to have real lights instead of the stick-on flashlights. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: One more M15 question (actually 2 8-) Date: 22 Oct 1997 12:01:00 -0600 When I mounted my masthead light, I pushed two 10' sections of round foam pipe insulation up through the mast (end-to-end), then used a regular electrician's fish tape to pull the cable through the foam. My hope is that the foam will protect the cable from various sharp things inside the mast, and also keep the cable from slapping noisily with boat motion. So far, it doesn't seem to interfere with the internal halyards. ---------- > From: Morris, Giles > To: 'montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: M_Boats: One more M15 question (actually 2 8-) > Date: Wednesday, October 22, 1997 9:09 AM > > If you have problems passing the wire through the mast, get some nylon > cord through first. The cord can be encouraged by attaching a vacuum > cleaner to one end to suck it through. > > I'm very glad to have real lights instead of the stick-on flashlights. > > Giles Morris > Arlington VA > M-15 #264 "Umiaq" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy Sommerfeld Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 22 Oct 1997 19:48:47 -0600 (CST) John I have replaced both the hatch boards and the rudder on my M-17. Used mahogoney, which aint cheap. Planed the boards down to about 3/8 inch and and fit them together so there are two sections, consisting of 2 boards each. The hatchway actually slides over of the hatchboard top, making a good seal My tiller is fine, but the rudder took a beating on the prop. Again, I used mahogony, full 1 inch by 12 inch by six feet, ($70) I think West Marine has a tiller that is shaped like the one on my M-17. Randy Sommerfeld M-17 No Worries > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 22 Oct 1997 23:46:23 -0700 Randy Sommerfeld wrote: > > John > I have replaced both the hatch boards and the rudder on my M-17. Used > mahogoney, which aint cheap. Planed the boards down to about 3/8 inch and > and fit them together so there are two sections, consisting of 2 boards > each. The hatchway actually slides over of the hatchboard top, making a > good seal > > My tiller is fine, but the rudder took a beating on the prop. Again, I used > mahogony, full 1 inch by 12 inch by six feet, ($70) I think West Marine has > a tiller that is shaped like the one on my M-17. > > Randy Sommerfeld > M-17 No Worries > > I had my prop chew at the rudder on my M23, so I attached an oak "snubber" block that limits rudder rotation to port. Problem solved! Dick Lane ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 23 Oct 1997 09:54:04 -0400 I (almost) hate to admit it, but when I replaced the hatch boards on Umiaq (M-15) I cheaped out. I used a plywood "handy-panel" from the local Hechinger (like Home Depot) and applied lots of stain and varnish. It won't last forever, but what does? The odd thing is that I've been complimented on the appearance of the hatch boards. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: becker-r@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Robert Becker) Subject: Re: M_Boats: New subscriber Date: 23 Oct 1997 16:47:17 +0000 >I am a new subscriber and the welocme message said to post something about >mysef. Well I am basically looking at small trailerable boats for a small >family with small kids. I am not looking at open boats I want at least a >cudy cabin. I was refered here by a Montgomery owner who also reads and >posts in the West Wight Potter mailing list. > >I will probaby just listen in, so to speak, ask a few questions. I have >some experience with mechanical things like small motors but I am not a >mechanic. I enjoy sailing, but am also looking for a "kind" boat to >introduce my childern and wife to. > >Nathan Welcome to the group. If you want a boat that will take care of you, the Montgomery is the answer. I sail the San Francisco bay and my M15 has always taken care of me. I recommend the M15 because it is easier to rig and get in/out of the water, which means you will end up sailing more, and your wife will be able to handle it easier. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: montgomery 17 centerboard Date: 23 Oct 1997 19:36:53 -0400 (EDT) recently acquired unloved montgomery 17, very concerned about recent info on lost centerboards, questions???does anyone have a pattern or detailed drawing of the centerboard? does anyone have detailed information on removel and replacement of centerboard???also, looking for used sails, ken 512 9499386 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: M_Boats: New 1998 Montgomery 17 AVAILABLE Date: 23 Oct 1997 20:30:23 +0000 Hi group.... We have taken an order for a brand new 1998 Montgomery 17 from a couple in Florida. (Ivory hull, Green sheer and boot stripe) Construction will start soon here in Southern California with Jerry Montgomery coming down to consult! With the hundreds of boats (maybe a thousand?) Jerry and I have built the last 20 some-odd years I think we can figure this one out! :-) We are going to build two Montgomery 17s at a time. The base price is $13,300. The trailer will be optional and also galvanized. Here is the question: Does anyone out there want to purchase the second Montgomery 17? (it will be beautiful!)(you can pick your color!) If your INTERESTED, please let me know. The 15 will be coming NEXT and JM will also be consulting us. (Its nice having Jerry around, Huh?) Thanks and Seas the Day Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (714)489-8227 Voicemail PS: If your not interested in buying a new Montgomery would you please put the word out about Montgomery_Boats being back in production! thanx. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher) Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery 17 centerboard Date: 24 Oct 1997 07:44:30 -0700 Grove777@aol.com wrote: > > recently acquired unloved montgomery 17, very concerned about recent info on > lost centerboards, questions???does anyone have a pattern or detailed drawing > of the centerboard? does anyone have detailed information on removel and > replacement of centerboard???also, looking for used sails, ken 512 9499386 You can contact Bob Eeg at Norsea Yachts. Bob is currently building the M17. He is a subscriber to this list. Bob Fishr ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bfisher@firstam.com (Bob Fisher) Subject: Re: M_Boats: New 1998 Montgomery 17 AVAILABLE Date: 24 Oct 1997 07:46:56 -0700 Robert Eeg wrote: > > Hi group.... > We have taken an order for a brand new 1998 Montgomery 17 from a > couple in Florida. (Ivory hull, Green sheer and boot stripe) > Construction will start soon here in Southern California with > Jerry Montgomery coming down to consult! With the hundreds of boats > (maybe a thousand?) Jerry and I have built the last 20 some-odd years > I think we can figure this one out! :-) > We are going to build two Montgomery 17s at a time. The base price > is $13,300. The trailer will be optional and also galvanized. > Here is the question: Does anyone out there want to purchase the > second Montgomery 17? (it will be beautiful!)(you can pick your color!) > If your INTERESTED, please let me know. > The 15 will be coming NEXT and JM will also be consulting us. > (Its nice having Jerry around, Huh?) > Thanks and Seas the Day > Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (714)489-8227 Voicemail > PS: If your not interested in buying a new > Montgomery would you please put the word > out about Montgomery_Boats being back in > production! thanx. Bob: Go get em! I will pass the word. All the best. Bob Fisher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: montgomery 17 centerboard Date: 24 Oct 1997 11:10:39 -0400 >very concerned about recent info on lost centerboards A somewhat broken M-15 centerboard (same size & shape as M-17, different weight) is on its way to Bob Eeg at Nor'Sea. Since JerryM will be with BobE for the building of the first new M-17 (YAAAYY!!!) there shouldn't be a problem sussing out a new one. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" (sans centerboard) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 spinnaker advice? Date: 24 Oct 1997 14:46:03 +0000 George Bunting wrote: > > I'm thinking about buying a new suit of Pineapple sails to replace the > original 1986 McKibben's on my M15, and considering adding a traditional > symmetrical spinnaker to improve downwind performance. I'm wondering if > anyone else has done this, and dealt with some of the issues like ... > > - Where to lead the spinnaker halyard on the mast? Since the M15 has no > backstay, I assume this block should not go above the shroud attach- > ments to the unsupported masthead? > > - How to mount the pole attachment ring to the mast, and how high? Is > it necessary for this to be adjustable if only 1 spinnaker is being > used? > > - Length of the pole, and requirements for topping lift and foreguy? > > - New hardware to lead the spinnaker sheets aft? In particular, can > the blocks simply be attached to the existing stern cleats? > > - Sources for sail and hardware? Does IM offer a spinnaker option for > the WW Potter? > > BTW, I don't think I want an asymmetrical/cruising spinnaker. I assume > that we can set, douse, and jibe a traditional poled spinnaker from the > companionway while sailing doublehanded, without the need for anyone to > go forward on deck to handle headsails - can someone confirm this? > > Thanks, > -gwb George: The 15 does great with a spinnaker! Put the halyard block (with a swivel) 6" above the forestay. Put the ring 3' up the mast. A track makes for better tuning in different wind conditions; the spinnaker pole should be level in almost all conditions and you cain't do this w/o a track. The length of the pole, if I remember right, is 5'9". At any rate, make it about 6" longer than the distance between the mast, projected to deck level, and the intersection of the forestay and the deck. This is for a 200% chute, which is best and is what you will get if you order it from Kern's Sails in Newport Beach 714 645-7741. Put the sheet blocks on the aft ends of the toe rails and bolt them right thru the rails and the hull/deck joint. To answe your question about jibing it without going on deck, it seems like I have done it that way, but to be sure, stand in the companionway and see if you can reach 3' up the mast. Have fun. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Performance enhancements? Date: 24 Oct 1997 14:57:13 +0000 George Bunting wrote: > > I'm also thinking about adding a traveler and/or boom vang to my stock > M15, and wondering if anyone has advice or experience along these lines. > For example, > > - Will a stern-mounted Harken traveler setup offer enough improvement > in sail trim over the current rope bridle to justify the effort and > expense? > > - Will the addition of a vang improve downwind performance, and maybe > help to keep the main from laying on the shrouds so soon? > > - Will either of these improve windward performance, reducing heeling > by flattening the main and allowing it to be sheeted out with less > twist? > > - Any advice re adding a second reef to the main, in particular is there > any clever way to use the same jiffy reefing line and attachments for > both, or must this all be duplicated? > > Thanks, > -gwb@slip.net George: I think that the factory traveller would be hard to improve. To help windward performance in light air, make sure that the traveller line is as long as possible w/o two-blocking with the mainsheet block on the boom. This is an old dinghy racing trick and helps the boom center better with the least amount of sheet tension, which gives you the twist that you need in light air. On many one-design boats that are raced, skippers install a two or four part purchase adjustment so that the traveller can be adjusted underway. If you do install an aftermarket stern traveller, remember that it must go over the tiller! A vang is valuable, but use it only for controlling twist while off the wind; never on the wind (it would only slow you down) Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Performance enhancements? Date: 24 Oct 1997 14:57:13 +0000 George Bunting wrote: > > I'm also thinking about adding a traveler and/or boom vang to my stock > M15, and wondering if anyone has advice or experience along these lines. > For example, > > - Will a stern-mounted Harken traveler setup offer enough improvement > in sail trim over the current rope bridle to justify the effort and > expense? > > - Will the addition of a vang improve downwind performance, and maybe > help to keep the main from laying on the shrouds so soon? > > - Will either of these improve windward performance, reducing heeling > by flattening the main and allowing it to be sheeted out with less > twist? > > - Any advice re adding a second reef to the main, in particular is there > any clever way to use the same jiffy reefing line and attachments for > both, or must this all be duplicated? > > Thanks, > -gwb@slip.net George: I think that the factory traveller would be hard to improve. To help windward performance in light air, make sure that the traveller line is as long as possible w/o two-blocking with the mainsheet block on the boom. This is an old dinghy racing trick and helps the boom center better with the least amount of sheet tension, which gives you the twist that you need in light air. On many one-design boats that are raced, skippers install a two or four part purchase adjustment so that the traveller can be adjusted underway. If you do install an aftermarket stern traveller, remember that it must go over the tiller! A vang is valuable, but use it only for controlling twist while off the wind; never on the wind (it would only slow you down) Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 24 Oct 1997 15:04:44 +0000 Saltm17@aol.com wrote: > > Has anyone replaced the hatchboards and/or the tiller on an M17? I > mistakenly sanded the original hatchboards and now, 10 years later, they are > starting to come apart. I'm also thinking about having 3 boards instead of > the two that came with the boat to make it easier to store them while > underway. > > The tiller cracked during a race in strong winds. I clamped and glued it back > together, but really don't trust it. I couldn't find a replacement so I > bought a Catalina 22 tiller, routing out space on it's stock for the plates > to fit snugly. It works rather well, but does take up more room in the > cockpit, and I'd rather have the proper tiller anyway. > > I am planning a trip from Key West to the Dry Tortugas in April, and any > Montgomery owner is welcome to come along. I will have an article in the > next MON with more details. > > Thanks, > > John > ("Miss T" # 372) John: Order a M-17 tiller from Frank Royce, Royce Boat Shop 891 W 17th St, Costa Mesa CA 92627. Or just send him 40 or 50 bucks and tell him what you want. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saltm17@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 25 Oct 1997 01:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Jerry, Thanks. Will do. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: Re: M_Boats: New 1998 Montgomery 17 AVAILABLE Date: 25 Oct 1997 05:30:27 -0700 Robert Eeg wrote: > > We have taken an order for a brand new 1998 Montgomery 17 from a > couple in Florida. (Ivory hull, Green sheer and boot stripe) > Construction will start soon here in Southern California > We are going to build two Montgomery 17s at a time. The base price > is $13,300. > Bob, I'd like to know how these new boats will be equipped. A base boat means there will be an optional boat, and so forth. Can you provide more details? Thanks. Tom -- Tom Smith Spokane, WA mailto:tsmith@ior.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: Re: M_Boats: New 1998 Montgomery 17 AVAILABLE Date: 25 Oct 1997 07:10:41 +0000 Tom Smith wrote: > > Robert Eeg wrote: > > > > > We have taken an order for a brand new 1998 Montgomery 17 from a > > couple in Florida. (Ivory hull, Green sheer and boot stripe) > > Construction will start soon here in Southern California > > We are going to build two Montgomery 17s at a time. The base price > > is $13,300. > > > > Bob, I'd like to know how these new boats will be equipped. A base > boat means there will be an optional boat, and so forth. Can you > provide more details? Thanks. Tom > > -- > Tom Smith > Spokane, WA > mailto:tsmith@ior.com Dear Tom A standard M_17 will include: Sheer and boot of contrasting color, Outboard mount, Sheet and Genoa Halyard Winches, Bow Pulpit, reefing gear for the Main Sail, wire to rope halyards, Forward hatch, three cockpit lockers, cabin top handrails, Electrical package that includes: Masthead Tri-color, cabin light, 6 pole switch panel, Master switch with connections for 2 batteries, battery box with cables and connections for a marine batterey. (not included, sams club for 25 bucks) The only Options are: Stern pulpit for 300, cockpit cushions for 485, the Galvanized, roller style trailer for 'around 1750'(the trailer manufacture hasn't given us a 'firm' price yet because we want ALL trailers galvanized BUT it won't be more than 1750, if it is we will pay the difference. Prices for extra Sails are pending, but they will be very reasonable(a few hundred). We think that if you add in all the options you would want including the 'new galvanized trailer' you could get a 1998 Montgomery 17 ready for sea, out the door for around 15 to 16 thousand. (no sales tax because you are out of state)(some said it would be 20 thousand but we are selling factory direct with No 25% dealer mark-up) I hope this answers your questions and If you have more please let me know. Also the first two Montgomery 17s that Nor'sea and Jerry (our consultant :-) build will have their pictures taken (with me and Jerry) for cruising world,sail,sailing magazines publicity and news releases. (also the Mongomery Owners Newsletter) Seas The Day Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (714)489-8227 Voicemail PS: Tom, if you want to talk in person over the weekend give me a call, leave a message and I will call you back. thanx. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: Re: M_Boats: New 1998 Montgomery 17 AVAILABLE Date: 25 Oct 1997 17:04:48 -0700 Robert Eeg wrote: > > Tom Smith wrote: > > > I hope this answers your questions Thanks Bob. You've answered all my questions. > Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (714)489-8227 Voicemail > PS: Tom, if you want to talk in person over the > weekend give me a call, leave a message and > I will call you back. thanx. -- Tom Smith Spokane, WA mailto:tsmith@ior.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Preston" Subject: Re: M_Boats: New 1998 Montgomery 17 AVAILABLE Date: 26 Oct 1997 08:20:16 -0700 Bob Will the new m-17 be the 3 or 4 beth design? Also, with they be keel/centerboard or fixed shoal draft keels? John Preston ---------- > From: Robert Eeg > To: montgomery_boats@mail.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New 1998 Montgomery 17 AVAILABLE > Date: Saturday, October 25, 1997 12:10 AM > > Tom Smith wrote: > > > > Robert Eeg wrote: > > > > > > > > We have taken an order for a brand new 1998 Montgomery 17 from a > > > couple in Florida. (Ivory hull, Green sheer and boot stripe) > > > Construction will start soon here in Southern California > > > We are going to build two Montgomery 17s at a time. The base price > > > is $13,300. > > > > > > > Bob, I'd like to know how these new boats will be equipped. A base > > boat means there will be an optional boat, and so forth. Can you > > provide more details? Thanks. Tom > > > > -- > > Tom Smith > > Spokane, WA > > mailto:tsmith@ior.com > > Dear Tom > A standard M_17 will include: Sheer and boot of contrasting color, > Outboard mount, Sheet and Genoa Halyard Winches, Bow Pulpit, reefing > gear for the Main Sail, wire to rope halyards, Forward hatch, three > cockpit lockers, cabin top handrails, Electrical package that includes: > Masthead Tri-color, cabin light, 6 pole switch panel, Master switch > with connections for 2 batteries, battery box with cables and > connections for a marine batterey. (not included, sams club for 25 > bucks) > The only Options are: Stern pulpit for 300, cockpit cushions for 485, > the Galvanized, roller style trailer for 'around 1750'(the trailer > manufacture hasn't given us a 'firm' price yet because we want ALL > trailers galvanized BUT it won't be more than 1750, if it is we will > pay the difference. Prices for extra Sails are pending, but they will be > very reasonable(a few hundred). > We think that if you add in all the options you would want including > the 'new galvanized trailer' you could get a 1998 Montgomery 17 > ready for sea, out the door for around 15 to 16 thousand. (no sales > tax because you are out of state)(some said it would be 20 thousand but > we are selling factory direct with No 25% dealer mark-up) > I hope this answers your questions and If you have more please let > me know. Also the first two Montgomery 17s that Nor'sea and Jerry > (our consultant :-) build will have their pictures taken (with me and > Jerry) for cruising world,sail,sailing magazines publicity and news > releases. (also the Mongomery Owners Newsletter) > Seas The Day > Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (714)489-8227 Voicemail > PS: Tom, if you want to talk in person over the > weekend give me a call, leave a message and > I will call you back. thanx. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 26 Oct 1997 22:20:44 EST John, The hatchboards on my M17 were badly weathered when I purchased my boat a year ago. I obtained a half sheet of marine grade plywood with teak veneer. My carpenter friend cut them to size using the old boards as templates. I applied teak oil and the hasp and sailed away. I have seen replacement tillers in the West Marine catalog, I don't know if they will fit a M 17. I wish to here of your trip to the Dry Tortugas because I would like to do the same passage. I'm in Minnesota but if I was closer to you, I'd love to join in the adventure. I'll be looking for your article in the newsletter. Smooth sailing! Michael"Bones" Bowden M17 "Bonita" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vic DeHaven" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 27 Oct 1997 00:37:34 PST Mike, That makes two of us (at least) that want to hear more about John's Dry Tortugas trip. Have either of you seent the September '96 issue of Sail magazine? They had a nice article about the trip. Vic DeHaven V21 "Cindy Tu" mail to: vicdeh@redrivernet.com > ---------- > > John, > > The hatchboards on my M17 were badly weathered when I purchased my boat a > year ago. I obtained a half sheet of marine grade plywood with teak > veneer. My carpenter friend cut them to size using the old boards as > templates. I applied teak oil and the hasp and sailed away. I have seen > replacement tillers in the West Marine catalog, I don't know if they will > fit a M 17. I wish to here of your trip to the Dry Tortugas because I > would like to do the same passage. I'm in Minnesota but if I was closer > to you, I'd love to join in the adventure. I'll be looking for your > article in the newsletter. > Smooth sailing! > > Michael"Bones" Bowden > M17 "Bonita" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jan debaene Subject: M_Boats: Introduction Date: 27 Oct 1997 12:13:23 CST To the Montgomery Sailors, I recently subscribed to the Montgomery mailing list and it was requested that I introduce myself. Ironacaly, I found out about the mailing list through the Potter mailing list. I don't own a Montgomery yet. We currently own a Banshee, which is about 12.5 ft long with 88 sq ft of cat rigged main sail, no cabin (where would you put it?) and a daggerboard. It has some resemblence to a Laser, except that it has a much larger cockpit. It is a blast to sail, if it is warm enough and don't have to many people in it. It definitly falls in the wet-sport sailing category. There is no way of remaining dry when you have a nice breeze. My wife and I have 2.5 childeren, we like to go sailing as a family in more or less comfortable conditions. Loading up the Banshee with 4 people (2 adults and a 7 and 2 yr old) is realy pushing it! With a third one on the way, we're looking for something a little bigger with a little cabin. The Potter 15 kind of fit that discription, but a 14 ft boat with 75 sq ft of sail does not look very exciting when comming from the Banchee. So, when I read about the M 15 I got very interested, especialy since trailerability is one of our requirements in addition the M15 seems to be designed with performance in mind. So, I have a few questions for the Montgomery experts (or those that like to share some of their views, at least). 1. Where can I get specs. and see some pictures of M15's? 2. When did they start building M15, and are they reosonable to come by 2nd hands? 3. We have a 4 cyl. car, would that be good enough to pull a M15 (buying an other car is not an option!)? 4. Are there M15 owners in the mid-west who would like to show off their beloved M15's? I would appreciate any information you could provide me with. Thanks, Jan E. Paul Debaene debaene@calshp.cals.wisc.edu . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: macinkos@juneau.micronet.net (Seth Macinko) Subject: M_Boats: M-boats to buy and sell Date: 27 Oct 1997 15:12:05 -0900 To all, Family sailing interests continue to evolve and I am now interested in purchasing an M-17 (any version including fixed-keel considered). The only way to do this is (gasp!) sell my beloved M-15. There are lots of logistical considerations, so let's just start by asking if anyone out there is looking for an M-15 and if anyone is interested in selling an M-17 and then discuss details later. Regards to all (note the new e-mail address) Seth M M-15 #200 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jan debaene Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-boats to buy and sell Date: 27 Oct 1997 16:44:05 CST Seth M, I would be interested, however I don't know where you're located or your (new) email address (it was not listed on your email). I also would like to find out more about the condition of the boat etc.. Hope to find out more. Sincerely, Jan Debaene debaene@calshp.cals.wisc.edu > > To all, > > Family sailing interests continue to evolve and I am now interested in > purchasing an M-17 (any version including fixed-keel considered). > > The only way to do this is (gasp!) sell my beloved M-15. > > There are lots of logistical considerations, so let's just start by asking > if anyone out there is looking for an M-15 and if anyone is interested in > selling an M-17 and then discuss details later. > > Regards to all (note the new e-mail address) > > Seth M > M-15 #200 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: M_Boats: Theoretically speaking... Date: 27 Oct 1997 12:23:43 -0800 I've been snooping on the Montgomery group for a month or so, and what a loyal and knowledgable bunch you are. As introduction, I presently own a Hunter 23 I sail on Pend Orielle Lake in north Idaho. I'm very interested in purchasing a boat that's both seaworthy, and easy to move around (especially after spending all day yesterday hauling the H23 and trailing it 80 miles home). I'm most interested in a M17, and have spoken via email with a few of you on that subject already. My theoretical question need not pertain to a 17 only, and it is this: How would you equip the ideal Montgomery sailboat? Please take what- ever approach suits you: minimalist, gearhead, technologist...all. I'm interested because I'll be equipping my own Montgomery in the forseeable future, and I'd like to see how your list compares to my new thinking on reasonably equipped sailing boats (1st, no more $1,500 instrument arrays and accompanying headaches...). Thanks for the warm welcome I've recieved from Montgomery owners I've communicated with. -- Tom Smith Spokane, WA mailto:tsmith@ior.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Stuneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 28 Oct 1997 04:28:32 -0600 Mike - where are you in Minnesota? I've been on White Bear this past year but will trailer next year. Get back to me when you can. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Theoretically speaking... Date: 28 Oct 1997 10:02:54 -0500 >How would you equip the ideal Montgomery sailboat? I wouldn't want to do without: - a jib downhaul - all lines led to the cockpit - a topping lift - real running lights (not the stick-on flashlight kind) - Porta-Potti Hm... This is sounding minimalist. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wh.sls@juno.com (Bill Smith) Subject: M_Boats: Introduction Date: 28 Oct 1997 19:20:47 -0500 I am a recent subscriber to your list and thought I should introduce myself. I love the Montgomery 15 ever since I saw it a NY boat show many years ago. Due to budget considerations however I had to settle for a 16' Sunbird (AMF). Anything to get on the water. Actually it's a pretty good boat but the cuddy is too small for overnight. Anyone know of others with a Sunbird? I could identify with those who have trouble with their centerboard. This one had a fiberglass centerboard weighted with steel. Naturally the steel rusted, and since steel by design expands when it rusts, it cracked the fiberglass, broke in half and was suspended by it's pennant. Since a new centerboard would cost as much as it did for the rest of the boat , I decided to rebuild it myself. I drilled two holes into the core of the upper portion which was some kind of filler and inserted 1/2" diameter stainless rods. Between the rods I used scrap copper for weight (about 30 lbs I think. Scrap stainless would have been cheaper.) I then wrapped the whole thing with glass and polyester resin, following the shape of the upper portion. I guess I was a little overzealous on the strength side as it took about 2 hours to grind it back to where it would fit in the c.b.trunk. At any rate it was a labor of love. It's also comforting to know it's not going to rust. Found it's perfect for the Chesapeake Eastern shore with shallow draft but good performance & stability. My dream is to find an M 15 in similar condition. Look for us in "Tweety" the yellow sunbird. Harley Smith wh.sls@juno.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 28 Oct 1997 22:26:24 EST Fritz, I'm in south Minneapolis and had my M17 on Lake Waconia last season. Fabulous sailing lake with few powerboats and a wonderful marina. Met several new sailing friends. Rick has an M17 out there as well. I will be trailer sailing for half the summer next year. Perhaps we should organize a regatta! Drop me a line, my personal E-mail address is: Bownez@Sprynet.com Later, Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 Bonita ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Introduction Date: 28 Oct 1997 23:39:38 -0500 Hi Paul.. Send me a fax number, and I'll send you the specs on the M-15..M-17 too, if you want Used M-15's go for about $4-5000, depending on location, condition and age. I found a home for 2 early this year..1 was in Florida, for about 3500, the other in Georgia for about 4000. Both had trailers. On the W. coast, prices are higher...same in the mid-west. The M-15 and trailer weighs over 1000 lbs.then, add in your gear as well. Most sedans have a towing limit of 1000 lbs, no matter what size engine they have, so the M-15 would be at a max. 'Course, a good frame hitch could help a lot. My M-17 and trailrite trailer is over 2000#. I tow it with a Ford Aerostar....tows like a dream Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: M-boats to buy and sell Date: 28 Oct 1997 23:39:39 -0500 Hi Seth.. Might be interested in swapping my M-17 for a M-15 in the near future, if I get the larger boat that the Admiral wants...I_will_ not be without a trailerable Monty!!. Only problem is I live in Georgia. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Theoretically speaking... Date: 28 Oct 1997 23:39:37 -0500 Hi Tom... I'm somewhat of a techie/gearhead, I guess...probably due to my profession os a computer nerd I'd ideally like to have a combination like the Lowrance 2000 ( chart plotter GPS and fish finder), handheld and full power VHF radios, Windex wind indicator and a good compass. I'd also retrofit the lighting to the next larger/brighter size. Also would get a galvanized trailer with tongue extender, and maybe a tilt launch capability. I'd have all the lines lead back to the cockpit, and self-tailing winches. Also, I'd replace the cast iron keel with the later lead/fiberglass model. I've also seen some nice teak hatch/doorway arraingements, and a bimini that I'd like to have. I drool over the larger GPS chart plotters, Autohelm stuff and 16 mile radar, but they really have no place on a small boat. In reality, I have a Garmin 12XL hand held GPS, Uniden 980 hand held VHF and a Windex indicator on the masthead. Since the original stove was missing, I bought a Glowmaster stove that uses the small cans of propane. Never used it, but have seen it used by chefs at a fancy golf country club for ala carte breakfasts. Harvey/ ATl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Smith Subject: Re: M_Boats: Theoretically speaking... Date: 28 Oct 1997 21:05:38 -0800 Harvey Wilson wrote: > > Hi Tom... > > I'm somewhat of a techie/gearhead, I guess...probably due to my profession > os a computer nerd Thanks for your view Harvey. I suspect that with a smaller boat like the M17, you can have more gear for less--downsized, so to speak. I'm really sold on the 17, and missed one here in Spokane about a month ago. Drat. Anyhow, as soon as I can sell the Hunter 23 I now own, the search is on! I have a full complement of Standard Comm. instruments on the h23--depth, boat speed, apparent wind from the masthead. Pretty neat stuff. When it all works. Also VHF, solar charging, lines lead aft, etc. etc. The Hunter is really quite fun to sail, but man is it a handfull to launch and retrieve. It literally takes all day. I want a boat that I can do a bit of travelling with--especially to Puget Sound. Sailing in the San Juans is wonderful. I've emailed back and forth with a fellow in Anacordes(sp?) who owns a 17 and sails the sound and inland passage north. How appealing that idea is! Keep in touch--it helps keep my M17 dream alive! Best regards. Tom Tom Smith Spokane, WA mailto:tsmith@ior.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "richard q. lane" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Theoretically speaking... Date: 28 Oct 1997 21:26:58 -0800 Tom Smith wrote: > > Harvey Wilson wrote: > > > > Hi Tom... > > > > I'm somewhat of a techie/gearhead, I guess...probably due to my profession > > os a computer nerd > > Thanks for your view Harvey. I suspect that with a smaller boat like > the M17, you > can have more gear for less--downsized, so to speak. I'm really sold on > the 17, and > missed one here in Spokane about a month ago. Drat. Anyhow, as soon as > I can sell > the Hunter 23 I now own, the search is on! > > I have a full complement of Standard Comm. instruments on the > h23--depth, boat > speed, apparent wind from the masthead. Pretty neat stuff. When it all > works. Also > VHF, solar charging, lines lead aft, etc. etc. The Hunter is really > quite fun to > sail, but man is it a handfull to launch and retrieve. It literally > takes all day. > I want a boat that I can do a bit of travelling with--especially to > Puget Sound. > Sailing in the San Juans is wonderful. I've emailed back and forth with > a fellow > in Anacordes(sp?) who owns a 17 and sails the sound and inland passage > north. How > appealing that idea is! Keep in touch--it helps keep my M17 dream > alive! > > Best regards. Tom > > Tom Smith > Spokane, WA > mailto:tsmith@ior.com Hi Tom, I used to tow my M-23 from SF Bay to Port Townsend every year until 1996. It only took me 2.25 hrs to raise the mast and launch, too long for day sailing but not too bad for 2 months. I now leave the Monty in California and bought a Nonsuch 26 for up here. We are "snowbirding" south again next week but if you are interested next year, contact me by e-mail after May and I'll take you sailing. Regards Dick Lane. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: M_Boats: M15 for Sale? Date: 28 Oct 1997 21:35:47 -0800 (PST) Well, I may have commited a serious sin, as I bought a Catalina 22 a couple of weeks ago. It's a nice boat, but it's not a Montgomery. I am thinking about turning Sojornen (M15-159) loose to a family that will care for her in the manner in which such a fine boat deserves. I am located in the Northwest, and would be willing to at least talk to anyone who is interested. I have NOT yet convinced myself that I am in fact willing to sell Sojornen, but it is under contemplation. If you're interested, send me an email and we can discuss it off line. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Stuneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hatchboards and tillers Date: 29 Oct 1997 05:26:42 -0600 Mike - Thought I'd better reply ASAP cause its a long time til next sailing season and we probably would forget names, etc. I have a 1974 M-17, #174, Blew Yonder, which was kept on White Bear Lake this year. Bought it in Kansas City and trailered it up here just a couple of months ago and Johnson Boatworks gave us a deal for the rest of the season. They want $850 for next year and that's too much for us. (wife Deb) Unless I can swing a deal thru the VFW here, we'll probably trailer also. We had a Balboa 20 on Waconia back in the early 80's which was kept at the marina near the Public boatlaunch at the South end nearest the cemetery. Back then the other marina was much more expensive. You could launch for free at the Public Launch, but in the Fall when the lake went down you would have to go to the other marina to use their deep launch ramp! We visited both marinas this summer and had a drink out on the deck of the" western" marina. Didn't see any Montgomery's that day. We were docked at the east marina for two years I believe. Good times. Right now its a bit far to drive for frequent sailing from up in Hugo, MN. I did some research on the island while we were out there and have copies somewhere around here about the history and buildings that were out there. Lots of buildings! Waconia is also where we saw our first M-23, which was owned by a guy by the name of Dave Bouillay. It was bright yellow and we did some partying on that boat. It was quite a bit larger than most of the other sailboats. Don't remember how it sailed though.Perhaps we can get together sometime this winter? Looking forward to perhaps trailering to the Apostle Islands next year. Will also go down to Pepin. . been there a few times also! Get back to me when you can. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom.Nichols@occ.treas.gov Subject: M_Boats: Opinions Date: 29 Oct 1997 13:12:27 EST I own M-15 #337, live in Arlington VA, and sail on the Potomac River and the Chesapeake Bay. My thanks to Jerry Montgomery for building such a perfect boat and Harvey Wilson (M-17 Stargazer #294) for helping me locate mine this past April in Florida. I have owned various sailboats (Sunfish, CapeDory Typhoon, Echo 12, Montgomery 8 sailing dingy, Bristol 24, and also currently own a Holder 12) for the past thirty years. I am married with two children in college and a third who is a junior in HS. M15 vs M17 ---------- M15 - Less weight to trailer, easier to launch (no back stay), and costs less. Comfortable two person boat, but I have day sailed with four adults. M17 - More load carrying capacity. Sleeps four. Equipment --------- o Positive flotation is there for a reason ... keep it. o The M15 has the proper amount of ballast ... don't add more. I've beat into 2.5' seas (5' trough to peak) with working jib and reefed main with only me aboard. o I trailer my M-15 with a 3.3 liter Dodge Caravan with a hitch rated for 3500 lbs. The boat pulls well at the speed limit (no problems on 965 mile drive from Florida) even up hill. I try not to accelerate hard and allow extra braking distance. I bought a spare wheel but hope to never need it. o Bought bunk guides to make single handed launching easy. o Bought a 3hp (33 lbs) Johnson (2 cylinder) outboard. I wanted the least amount of weight and was told and now believe that a 2hp provides more power than will ever be required. I wanted a four stroke but the Honda 2 did not have neutral which was a mandatory for safety and handling reasons. I did not want a remote tank cluttering up the cockpit floor. I have a one gallon plastic container that I have yet to take with me for refueling. If I ever have to refuel at sea it will be in calm seas (if there's wind I sail) unless I lose my rigging. o I don't do extensive cruising and do not want a battery or built in navigation lights. I carry portable running lights and if I ever get the money will probably by a hand held GPS. o When I sail by myself a bucket works well but with the kids or friends the porta-potti is a must. o I have a spinaker and a geneoa which I only used once this year since the boat sails great with working sails with anything over 7 knots of wind. I too am interested in the trip to the Dry Tortugas next spring, but don't know if I yet have the guts to head out to sea in my M-15. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Opinions Date: 30 Oct 1997 00:13:45 -0500 Hi Tom... GPS' are cheaper then you think...Garmin, Eagle/Lowrance and several others have handhelds under $150. Glad you're enjoying the M-15...now to (possibly) find a home for a M-23 (if I don't get it myself!!) Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Introduction Date: 30 Oct 1997 00:31:16 -0600 (CST) On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, jan debaene wrote: > To the Montgomery Sailors, > > I recently subscribed to the Montgomery mailing list and it was requested that I > introduce myself. Ironacaly, I found out about the mailing list through the > Potter mailing list. Hey. One for the Potters. Glad you found us. > > I don't own a Montgomery yet. We currently own a Banshee, which is about 12.5 ft > long with 88 sq ft of cat rigged main sail, no cabin (where would you put it?) > and a daggerboard. It has some resemblence to a Laser, except that it has a > much larger cockpit. It is a blast to sail, if it is warm enough and don't > have to many people in it. It definitly falls in the wet-sport sailing > category. There is no way of remaining dry when you have a nice breeze. You'll love the lapstrake hull (with the fine entry and 'heads up' bow) which make the M_Boats very dry. > My wife and I have 2.5 childeren, we like to go sailing as a family in more or > less comfortable conditions. Loading up the Banshee with 4 people (2 adults and > a 7 and 2 yr old) is realy pushing it! With a third one on the way, we're > looking for something a little bigger with a little cabin. The Potter 15 kind > of fit that discription, but a 14 ft boat with 75 sq ft of sail does not look > very exciting when comming from the Banchee. So, when I read about the M 15 > I got very interested, especialy since trailerability is one of our requirements > in addition the M15 seems to be designed with performance in mind. They're great to sail - and seem like much larger boats than they are. Safer for the kids, too - even if they're acting like a couple of Banchee's. > > So, I have a few questions for the Montgomery experts (or those that like to > share some of their views, at least). > > 1. Where can I get specs. and see some pictures of M15's? > Send us your fax number. I'm sure we can get the info to you. > 2. When did they start building M15, and are they reosonable to come > by 2nd hands? I believe production started around 1982. (Right Jerry?). Your probably talking 4-5K for a good one in the Midwest. I'd look at the MI and IL market for one although they are rare in those areas. They're also not well known so they don't hold their value like in the Minnesota market (where they are known). You might get lucky, like Capt'n Kidd and find one for less than $4K. That may seem like a bunch of money for a used 15 foot boat, but you have to consider what you are getting. > > 3. We have a 4 cyl. car, would that be good enough to pull a M15 (buying > an other car is not an option!)? If you are in MadTowne as your e-mail address suggests (I graduated from CALS in the LA program at UWmad) and you are just going to haul it to Lake Mendota I'd say you can get by OK. If you're heading over the Rockies, I'd get a six banger. > 4. Are there M15 owners in the mid-west who would like to show off their > beloved M15's? If you want to drive up to the Eau Claire area, I'd be happy to show you our '93 M15. She shows like new. Be forewarned. You'll fall in love with these boats. > > I would appreciate any information you could provide me with. > > Thanks, > > Jan E. Paul Debaene > debaene@calshp.cals.wisc.edu > . Hope this answers some of your questions. (I tried posting a reply a couple of times before but my server has been having problems since they moved a couple of weeks ago. If this is a repeat to the list - my apologies to all.) Randy P. M23 Early Light M15 Oui-1 M7-11 (anon)