From: Doug Kelch Subject: RE: M_Boats: Re: M-15 knockdown Date: 01 May 1998 07:40:17 -0400 The storm jib I have on my M15 measures as follows: Luff =3D 125" Leech =3D 84" foot =3D 67 " This leaves the clew well above the deck but still has a good sheeting angle. The sail is cut very flat, has 4 bronze hanks which are attached 4" from the head and 30" from the tack and evenly spaced in between. The sail also has 2 1/2 inchs of leather padding around the tac= k and head. I purchased mine from Potomack Sailmakers in Alexandria VA for $120 (support your local sailmaker). = Thanks Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph C. Silva" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M 23 Sadhana is out of water Date: 01 May 1998 09:49:57 -0800 >I retrieved Sadhana yesterday preparatory to our going to Port Townsend >Wa for the summer. She is in my driveway. I will suspend my earthlink >ISP e-mail a/c tonight and be incommunicado e-mail wise until mid May. >Anyone interested in looking her over can contact Phillip Tyre of Yachts >101 in Redwood City Ca, phone (650)369-2050 or their website at >www.yachts101.com DIck, Have a good trip. Sorry the sailing didn't come together. The Nonsuch is a great boat and the scenery is magnificient in Puget Sound. Stay in touch. Joseph ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: ...a little help needed Date: 01 May 1998 15:32:09 +0000 Ken, The attachment of the shrouds on the M15 is relatively straightforward, except for the attachment of the forestay to the mast. When I got mine (used) the forestay was secured to the mast by jambing the crimp inside the mast in the slot. I have since changed it to fit through the bolt holding the side stays, which effectively shortened the length of the forestay and required the addition of a link at the bow attachment. I think others in the group had similar experiences. If this does not answer your questions, send me your address and I will try to sketch the arrangement on my boat. It is really instructive to see another boat rigged, and even better to sail on another M15. If you are in the San Francisco area, I would be glad to arrange to meet with you and swap knowledge. If you are not in my part of the world, I know others on the list would be equally accommodating. Bob ---------- > From: Grove777 > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: ...a little help needed > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:20:27 EDT > >...am striving to restore an unloved m 15; need info...can anyone send a photo >of how the shrouds were attached to the mast[or a sketch], something is >missing on my boat, also looking for specs for storm jib and would like to buy >a used main, jib and genoa...thank you for any help offered...ken > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rrramunda Subject: M_Boats: M17 still for sale Date: 01 May 1998 19:30:59 EDT posting for a friend: Montgomery 17, hull#219 is for sale. This boat is exceptionally clean and well rigged. Extensively re-worked for short handed coastal cruising 2 yrs. ago. Lots of new Harken, controls led aft, jacklines, mid-boom Harken traveler, boom vang, adj. backstay, jiffy reefing, all new running rigging, compass. Lots more goodies and improvements. 2 mains (1 new), new 150% genoa, 100% jib, good trailer w/new tires, 4 yr. old Johnson long- shaft w/ low hours. Boat is in Eugene,Oregon, asking 7500 w/ motor. Owner bought M23. Email me or call Gary Sumner at (541)484-2768. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: ...a little help needed Date: 01 May 1998 23:32:05 -0400 I can fax you a copy of the original sales brochure..that may help.. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Preston" Subject: Re: M_Boats: ...a little help needed Date: 01 May 1998 22:41:12 -0700 Harvey Thanks very much for the M-boat brochures...they came through just fine... John Preston ---------- > From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> > To: INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: ...a little help needed > Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 8:32 PM > > I can fax you a copy of the original sales brochure..that may help.. > > Harvey/Atl > > M-17 Stargazer #294 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outing, MN Date: 02 May 1998 09:57:21 EDT Dennis, I'm in Minneapolis and my M17 is here, next to the house awaiting a spring launch. If you swing through town, give a call. I'm always ready to talk about Jerry's boats and sailing. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17#92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777 Subject: Re: M_Boats: ...a little help needed Date: 02 May 1998 11:13:08 EDT PLEASE...WOULD APPRECIATE A COPY BUT DO NOT HAVE A FAX...MY ADRESS IS KEN PAGANS, 13721 CAYO GORDA, CORPUS CHRISTI, TX, 78418...ALSO NEED DIMENSIONS ON SAILS AS BOAT WITHOUT SAILS...HAD BEEN SETTING FOR A LONG TIME...THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777 Subject: Re: M_Boats: ...a little help needed Date: 02 May 1998 11:11:06 EDT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Sealants Date: 03 May 1998 00:11:52 -0400 Hi All... I'm in the process of rebedding and sealing bolt holes on my M-17. I have removed one of the side windows that has been leaking a bit, and wonder if I should use marine silicone sealer, or polysulphide (Life caulk) ?? It's an aluminum to gelcoat seating, no lexan (window glass) joint. Also, I have a leak into the area under the vee berth..any ideas where it could be coming from ?? Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: ...a little help needed Date: 03 May 1998 09:31:29 -0400 Ken, The specific sequence of washers and shrouds on the through bolt = is as follows: washer, shroud thimble, mast wall, forestay thimble, mast wall, shroud thimble, washer. I hope this helps. = I will snail mail a copy of the sales brouchers as well. Thanks, Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sealants Date: 03 May 1998 20:44:05 EDT Harvey, I'm getting my M17 commissioned for summer and upon inspection of the V berth today, I also have some minor leaks. Mine seems to be from the through deck bolts holding the bow pulpit. I bought some 3M 101 sealant and I will remove and rebed the bolts. I removed and resealed my windows last year. I used standard silicon in a tube. Refresh my memory, what outboard are you using with Stargazer? I have a Johnson 6hp, and am considering going to a 3hp. The weather is delightful here in Minneapolis. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sealants Date: 04 May 1998 00:06:37 -0400 Hi Bones... Thanks for the reply. I have removed the port window today. It was bedded with a gray compound, still a bit pliable, then silicone stuff applied around the outside in an effort to stop the leaking. I removed the big gasket inside the window, and there was water in the channel. Probably leaking thru the small gasket that holds th window to the frame. I think the leak is from this gasket, and not the frame to gel coat seal. I'd love to replace the original with opening brass ports, but it looks like $200 each!! Stargazer has an '87 Evinrude 8hp yachtwin w/ alternator for power. I bought her in Ft. Myers, Fla. and she regularly plied the Gulf. Knowing what the current looks like in some of the Fla inlets (Palm Bch), I can say that a more powerful motor is needed then if she sailed on inland lakes only. Last year the motor dies, and while it was getting repaired, I used a borrowed 37# thrust trolling motor....worked well, and the silence was wonderful. The sailing club that I belonged to (before Stargazer) used 4 HP motors on 22 ft Catalinas and a 26 ft Impulse. All went to hull speed. A friend uses a 4HP 'Rude on his J-24 on Lake Erie, reporting hull speed at about 2/3 throttle. I'd like to get a little 2HP Seagull for Stargazer and lake use...just can't find one down here in Atlanta area. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sealants Date: 04 May 1998 18:10:48 EDT Harvey, Thanks for the reply. I also have a wonderful Honda 9.9hp with alternator for the M17. It came with the boat which was on Lake Superior thus explaining the size. It's a great motor yet weighs 78 lbs and one barely needs to crack open the throttle. I plan to borrow a 2hp from a fishing buddy and see how that performs. Almost time to sail in Minnesota. Michael "Bones" Bowden _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: M_Boats: gfi Date: 05 May 1998 09:05:31 +0000 Forbes has a GPS contest all you navigators may be interested in. Check out www.forbes.com/cool and win $10k and a case of Chateau Latour. If you win, don't forget who told you about the contest (Yes, a bottle of the good stuff will do). Bob M15 #208 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SailBabb Subject: M_Boats: Re: to buy a boat Date: 07 May 1998 01:01:57 EDT My son is looking for an Olson 30 to buy and bring to Dallas. Sailbabb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SailBabb Subject: M_Boats: Re to buy a boat Date: 07 May 1998 01:04:44 EDT My son is looking for an Olson 30 to bring to Dallas. If anyone knows of one, contact me. Sailbabb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Haas Subject: M_Boats: M17 for Sale Date: 08 May 1998 10:17:03 -0700 An ad from the May 8, Portland, Or Oregonian. Montgomery 17 with motor and trailer, everything excellent. $5,200 503-390-6376, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: M_Boats: M-15 Date: 10 May 1998 13:49:21 -0400 Gentlemen, This is my attempt to get on the M web, so, in case I'm not doing it right, I'm sending you all copies of my message so that you know what happened. First I would like the express my thanks to you all for your help in providing data on the M-15; answered my questions; and put me in touch with the M web site which gave me a much better picture of the M-15; it's construction, sailing characteristics, and your various sailing experiences. Joe Kidd put me in touch with Dan Diehlman, who was going to sell "Etude", but when I started making noises about buying the boat, Dan decided he couldn't live without it, and withdrew it from the market. Then Dan sent me the Lat 38 classifieds with the two M-15s listed: one in the San Francisco area; the second in Panama City, FL. I immediately called the owner of the Panama City boat, who lived in Sausalito, CA, and left a message on his machine. The next morning I got a call from him and he gave me the details of the boat and it's condition. He also mentioned that he had a surprising number of calls, and people from New Orleans and Atlanta were planning to drive to Panama City to look at the boat. I digested this for about 10 minutes, and called him back to say I'd take the boat, sight-unseen. (You all had told me about the quality of the boat and it's construction, so what could be wrong? ...a few blemishes?) Anyway, I FedExed him a check; and he FedExed me the signed Bills of Sale for the boat and the trailer. I then got a Reese receiver hitch installed on my VW VR6 GTI, and took off for Panama City, with an old engineer friend from Washington, DC along for moral, and technical support, if need be. ....tool boxes were in the trunk to cover all trailer and boat problems that might arise. A quick look at the boat when we got there, Saturday evening, showed a great little ship. Then it was time to find a place to spend the night; have a martini and dinner; and contemplate the next move. Sunday, I got inside: pulled out the gear and piled it in the cockpit. I bailed out some water. Was very impressed by the quality of the finish and the way the boat was put together. A quality product! Boat was in excellent shape. Trailer, a Trail-Rite, had been repainted - white - and the tires had cracks in the side walls, which was my main concern, having to drive 1400 miles back to Connecticut. We also had to work on the trailer lights - but that was expected. Salt water and automotive electrical systems are not very compatible! Monday we hooked up and headed for a tire store to get new tires, but the first place didn't have trailer tires, only car tires. He sent us 100 yards down the highway to a Marine store, and there, the owner came out and looked at the tires and said, "Nothing wrong with them. Go". So, we started our journey north with butterflies in the stomach at the thought of the tires. But, we had a new spare wheel and tire, so what could happen, that we couldn't fix? ....unless we blew both tires! It's about a 35 mile run up a State road till you get to I-10, and we stopped often to check trailer bearing temperatures and the condition of the load. Everything was in order. So, by the time we reached I-10 we had inched up our speed to about 55 MPH. On I-10 heading towards Jacksonville, the sun was shining, the traffic was light, as our confidence rose, so did our speed. At Jacksonville, when we headed north on I-95 we were now cruising happily at 65 MPH. By the time we reached Washington, DC - with nary a problem enroute - we were cruising at 70-72 MPH and the rig was extremely stable. You hardly noticed the weight of the boat and trailer on the highway. When I got home to Glastonbury, I unpacked the boat and started to go into detailed inspection of my purchase: Results: Hull / deck: in great shape. Hardly a scratch on it after 10 years of use. Sails: by Kern: almost like new; a main with slugs and a row of reef points; and a jib with a set of reef points. Outboard: a Honda 2 HP 4 cycle motor. Again, in extremely good condition., considering that it had been used in salt water. Only conclusion: either Honda makes fabulous engines and does an excellent job protecting them from the operating environment, or, the original owner hardly used the boat. (At the moment I am tending to this latter thought) Mast / boom / standing rigging / running rigging: all in excellent (like new) shape. Boat came with 4 new fenders: Danforth anchor and 150 feet of marked anchor rode; mooring lines; 2 PFDs; and lovely navy blue with white flecks matrasses. Trailer had guide posts: and a new spare tire and wheel. The owner I bought it from had had new springs installed; the bearings checked and greased with new seals installed. Initial problem area: rusted out trailer lights. Fixed those at first fuel stop. Got new bulbs; cleaned sockets; made sure that there was a good ground. Now I am replacing the old corroded lights with new ones. The only problems I have found so far, are delamination of the bottom companionway hatch board (make a new one); and delamination in the tiller (get a new one). So, that's the saga of the $2,950.- M-15! It's a great boat, and I'm very glad that Lacey pointed me in the direction of your web site; that Joe sent me the brochure; and Dan and Harvey answered questions. My rationale for buying it sight-unseen was simple: The price was great: the Honda outboard alone was worth about $450.- (and if it didn't run I could take care of that); if the hull needed work; repair gauges, scratches, etc. and painting, I've done it all, so no big deal. (I owned a 29 footer for almost 25 years, and totally refinished the fibreglass hull: I totally renovated the ComPac that I currently own to an "as new" condition, and have built various boats in my lifetime), so the actual condition really didn't bother me. Of course, now that I find that I have a gem, so much the better! Thanks again to you all for helping me get a great boat. The M-15 is certainly the top of the class, and obviously designed by an experienced sailor and gentleman: I even found that it had a wine cellar up forway, where things could stay dark and cool. Wow! When I finish my little list of chores, and get to sail the M-15 I'll report back with my impressions and observations. Connie & Katrina Benneck M-15 #400 also, Bolger Car Topper; Bolger NYMPH dinghy; and a 10 foot canoe P.S. Know of anyone in the market for a very good ComPac 16; 2 HP Suzuki OB and excellent trailer? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 Date: 09 May 1998 12:16:43 -0600 You did fine, both with the email and with the boat except that I don't see chbenneck@juno.com as a list subscriber. You won't see any of the list traffic unless you subscribe by sending mail to majordomo@xmission.com with only subscribe montgomery_boats in the body of your message. You'll receive a message with a "cookie" that must be returned, and instructions on what to do. Upon receipt of the returned cookie, you're a member. The cookie is just a method of keeping mail bomb programs from dumping untold addresses onto the list. (Yes, it happens frequently.) If things are working right, you will always receive a copy of any message you send to the list. That is, the list distributes to all members, not all members except the message author. It's a good check that your message has been delivered. ---------- > From: Conbert H Benneck > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Cc: jk@yosemite.net; HartjeL@nima.mil; kdiehl@xmission.com; dand@csufresno.edu; 102072.2315@compuserve.com > Subject: M_Boats: M-15 > Date: Sunday, May 10, 1998 11:49 AM > > Gentlemen, > > This is my attempt to get on the M web, so, in case I'm not doing it > right, I'm sending you all copies of my message so that you know what > happened. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Connie's New M-15 Date: 09 May 1998 11:32:32 -0700 Connie, It was good hearing from you again. Your M-15 sounds like it is in great shape at a great price and well worth the 1,400-mile drive to pick her up. I would keep a sharp eye on those tires, however. Cracked sidewalls have a way of separating in extremely hot weather. (I would tell you about my exploding tire experiences in Eastern Oregon one summer... but everyone has a similar story.) Most of all, welcome aboard. We'll be interested in hearing about how your new M-15 sails on Connecticut waters. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: M_Boats: M17 For Sale Date: 09 May 1998 15:21:34 -0500 (CDT) It's been awhile since I "posted" I have a '91 M17 for sale. If anyone, or if you know of anyone, is interested, drop me a line and I'll be glad to provide price, details, etc. Thanks a bunch. Jay at jgtown@ix.netcom.com, phone 916/962-1573 (Sacramento, CA) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: M_Boats: Proposed CA Ban On 2-Stroke Outboards Date: 11 May 1998 07:37:14 -0700 I have a copy of a May 6 summary of the proposed CA ban on 2-stroke outboards from the Sacramento BEE. I'll email this to individual requesters unless I get more than 10 requests, in which case I'll post it to the associated list. Cheers -- dwf M-15 #189 -- I haven't lived with her long enough yet to have learned her name -- P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" -- 'Tis better to putter with a Potter than potter with a putter ! Ridgecrest, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frederick D. Diehlman" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Proposed CA Ban On 2-Stroke Outboards Date: 11 May 1998 10:39:40 -0700 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7CC9.C34399A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis, I'd appreciate a copy of it, or a reference to where I can find it on the web. Thanks dand@zimmer.csufresno.edu ---------- Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 7:37 AM I have a copy of a May 6 summary of the proposed CA ban on 2-stroke outboards from the Sacramento BEE. I'll email this to individual requesters unless I get more than 10 requests, in which case I'll post it to the associated list. Cheers -- dwf M-15 #189 -- I haven't lived with her long enough yet to have learned her name -- P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" -- 'Tis better to putter with a Potter than potter with a putter ! 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Joe Kidd ---------- > From: Frederick D. Diehlman > To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Proposed CA Ban On 2-Stroke Outboards > Date: Monday, May 11, 1998 10:39 AM > > Dennis, > I'd appreciate a copy of it, or a reference to where I can find it on the web. > Thanks dand@zimmer.csufresno.edu > > > ---------- > From: Dennis W. Farrell > Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 7:37 AM > To: WWPotterWeb; Montgomery Boats List; BolgerList > Subject: M_Boats: Proposed CA Ban On 2-Stroke Outboards > > I have a copy of a May 6 summary of the proposed CA ban on 2-stroke > outboards from the Sacramento BEE. > I'll email this to individual requesters unless I get more than 10 > requests, in which case I'll post it to the associated list. > > Cheers -- dwf > M-15 #189 -- I haven't lived with her long enough yet to have learned > her name -- > P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" -- 'Tis better to putter with a Potter than > potter with a putter ! > Ridgecrest, CA > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slyingst@sonic.net (Stephen Yingst & Christina Barasch) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Proposed CA Ban On 2-Stroke Outboards Date: 11 May 1998 16:16:38 -0700 >Frederick, Yes, please. Stephen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: don.roe@ssa.gov Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 Date: 13 May 1998 08:27:33 -0500 Connie & Katrina, Congratulations on your "new" M-15. I really enjoyed reading about the purchase and your trip home. Can you provide some more info about your ComPac 16? I may be interested. You can e-mail me direct at: DonRoe@ssa.gov Don ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: at ##internet Gentlemen, This is my attempt to get on the M web, so, in case I'm not doing it right, I'm sending you all copies of my message so that you know what happened. First I would like the express my thanks to you all for your help in providing data on the M-15; answered my questions; and put me in touch with the M web site which gave me a much better picture of the M-15; it's construction, sailing characteristics, and your various sailing experiences. Joe Kidd put me in touch with Dan Diehlman, who was going to sell "Etude", but when I started making noises about buying the boat, Dan decided he couldn't live without it, and withdrew it from the market. Then Dan sent me the Lat 38 classifieds with the two M-15s listed: one in the San Francisco area; the second in Panama City, FL. I immediately called the owner of the Panama City boat, who lived in Sausalito, CA, and left a message on his machine. The next morning I got a call from him and he gave me the details of the boat and it's condition. He also mentioned that he had a surprising number of calls, and people from New Orleans and Atlanta were planning to drive to Panama City to look at the boat. I digested this for about 10 minutes, and called him back to say I'd take the boat, sight-unseen. (You all had told me about the quality of the boat and it's construction, so what could be wrong? ...a few blemishes?) Anyway, I FedExed him a check; and he FedExed me the signed Bills of Sale for the boat and the trailer. I then got a Reese receiver hitch installed on my VW VR6 GTI, and took off for Panama City, with an old engineer friend from Washington, DC along for moral, and technical support, if need be. ....tool boxes were in the trunk to cover all trailer and boat problems that might arise. A quick look at the boat when we got there, Saturday evening, showed a great little ship. Then it was time to find a place to spend the night; have a martini and dinner; and contemplate the next move. Sunday, I got inside: pulled out the gear and piled it in the cockpit. I bailed out some water. Was very impressed by the quality of the finish and the way the boat was put together. A quality product! Boat was in excellent shape. Trailer, a Trail-Rite, had been repainted - white - and the tires had cracks in the side walls, which was my main concern, having to drive 1400 miles back to Connecticut. We also had to work on the trailer lights - but that was expected. Salt water and automotive electrical systems are not very compatible! Monday we hooked up and headed for a tire store to get new tires, but the first place didn't have trailer tires, only car tires. He sent us 100 yards down the highway to a Marine store, and there, the owner came out and looked at the tires and said, "Nothing wrong with them. Go". So, we started our journey north with butterflies in the stomach at the thought of the tires. But, we had a new spare wheel and tire, so what could happen, that we couldn't fix? ....unless we blew both tires! It's about a 35 mile run up a State road till you get to I-10, and we stopped often to check trailer bearing temperatures and the condition of the load. Everything was in order. So, by the time we reached I-10 we had inched up our speed to about 55 MPH. On I-10 heading towards Jacksonville, the sun was shining, the traffic was light, as our confidence rose, so did our speed. At Jacksonville, when we headed north on I-95 we were now cruising happily at 65 MPH. By the time we reached Washington, DC - with nary a problem enroute - we were cruising at 70-72 MPH and the rig was extremely stable. You hardly noticed the weight of the boat and trailer on the highway. When I got home to Glastonbury, I unpacked the boat and started to go into detailed inspection of my purchase: Results: Hull / deck: in great shape. Hardly a scratch on it after 10 years of use. Sails: by Kern: almost like new; a main with slugs and a row of reef points; and a jib with a set of reef points. Outboard: a Honda 2 HP 4 cycle motor. Again, in extremely good condition., considering that it had been used in salt water. Only conclusion: either Honda makes fabulous engines and does an excellent job protecting them from the operating environment, or, the original owner hardly used the boat. (At the moment I am tending to this latter thought) Mast / boom / standing rigging / running rigging: all in excellent (like new) shape. Boat came with 4 new fenders: Danforth anchor and 150 feet of marked anchor rode; mooring lines; 2 PFDs; and lovely navy blue with white flecks matrasses. Trailer had guide posts: and a new spare tire and wheel. The owner I bought it from had had new springs installed; the bearings checked and greased with new seals installed. Initial problem area: rusted out trailer lights. Fixed those at first fuel stop. Got new bulbs; cleaned sockets; made sure that there was a good ground. Now I am replacing the old corroded lights with new ones. The only problems I have found so far, are delamination of the bottom companionway hatch board (make a new one); and delamination in the tiller (get a new one). So, that's the saga of the $2,950.- M-15! It's a great boat, and I'm very glad that Lacey pointed me in the direction of your web site; that Joe sent me the brochure; and Dan and Harvey answered questions. My rationale for buying it sight-unseen was simple: The price was great: the Honda outboard alone was worth about $450.- (and if it didn't run I could take care of that); if the hull needed work; repair gauges, scratches, etc. and painting, I've done it all, so no big deal. (I owned a 29 footer for almost 25 years, and totally refinished the fibreglass hull: I totally renovated the ComPac that I currently own to an "as new" condition, and have built various boats in my lifetime), so the actual condition really didn't bother me. Of course, now that I find that I have a gem, so much the better! Thanks again to you all for helping me get a great boat. The M-15 is certainly the top of the class, and obviously designed by an experienced sailor and gentleman: I even found that it had a wine cellar up forway, where things could stay dark and cool. Wow! When I finish my little list of chores, and get to sail the M-15 I'll report back with my impressions and observations. Connie & Katrina Benneck M-15 #400 also, Bolger Car Topper; Bolger NYMPH dinghy; and a 10 foot canoe P.S. Know of anyone in the market for a very good ComPac 16; 2 HP Suzuki OB and excellent trailer? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: Fw: furler and ladder Date: 13 May 1998 11:26:23 -0600 ---------- > From: Jim Daly > To: Keith Diehl > Subject: furler and ladder > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 8:30 PM > > Keith, > > Sorry to send this direct to you but I do not have my posting > instructions with me for the group. I have a 1977 M17 and will > be starting my many projects when I return to Colorado in two > weeks. (The last 4 months have been in New Zealand) I have been > watching the discussions and have to questions. > > 1. I will be installing a boarding ladder from West Marine, either > the 4 step or 5 step folding model. My inclination is go with > the 5 step. Any comments from the group? > > 2. I cannot find the recent message concerning which furler from > CDI has been installed on an M17. Is it the number 1 or number 2. > The reefing capabilities appear to be what I want. > > thanks to all for the help. > > Jim Daly > > -- > This e-mail was generated from your home page; the e-mail address > "Jim Daly " > may be incorrect. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Haas Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fw: furler and ladder Date: 13 May 1998 19:22:42 -0700 The following is the response I got from Bob a while back on a similar question for an M-15. I ended up getting the CDI Minist, which will work up to a 21 foot luff but is fairly light duty. Its easy to install. All I have left to do is attach the fairleads. This I'll do when and if it ever stops raining and work up the nerve to drill holes in the deck. I had to have a new forestay made, with a swagged 1/4" turnbuckle. Had the side shrouds done at the same time also since I had no idea how old they were. CDI has a good web site, lots of information on thier products and I received quick response to my e-mail questions. Find them at: WWW.sailcdi.com Don Haas ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > CDI has a good reputation. I installed the ff2 on my M-17. It took a couple of hours, but is not difficult. The smaller model will work fine on an M-15. Price it out at Johnson Sail and Sailrite, the list price is discounted. going forward on a small boat in a blow to change a headsail is no fun. The furler is worth the investment. > Bob Fisher ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fw: furler and ladder Date: 14 May 1998 07:26:24 -0400 I just installed a CDI FF2 on my M17, and it works beautifully. The FF1 is cheaper but is about a foot too short, and you would have to cut down your jib. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: M-15 Date: 14 May 1998 19:03:39 -0400 Connie & Katrina Benneck Congratulations on your M15 and the fine write on the hunt and delivery. I also bought my M15 site unseen after having been beat out by= the quickness of a fellow list member for an M15 in Panama City, Fla. I got a very good boat for the price but my price was $1000 more than yours= =2E = Keep us posted on your adventures on the Conneticut coast. Doug Kelch M15 310 "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: M_Boats: Introduction Date: 17 May 1998 20:53:58 -0400 Felllow M-15 owners As, probably, the newest member on the list, let me tell you a bit about ourselves. I'm a mechanical engineer who worked in the aircraft business all his life, first as a Field Engineer for Sperry Gyroscope Company on navigational equipment, and later in the international marketing area for United Aircraft Corporation. This latter position kept us in Europe for 17 years: Cologne, Paris, Munich as home bases, and covering most of Europe and the Iron Curtain Countries. Of course we had boats while there! First a Klepper Aerious two seater foldboat; then a German centerboard racing sloop on a lake near Aachen. When we had to move to Paris, I had a Norwegian fishing boat, double ender, with two berths and a stand-up pilot house, built in Norway. We took delivery in Rotterdam and then went via inland waterways through Holland, Belgium and France back to Paris. Two years of going up and down the Seine, listening to the putt-putt of the single cylinder diesel engine, convinced us we had to have a sailboat again, so we bought a 29 footer in Holland. After spending a month sailing on the Isselmeer - shake-down cruise - we exited Holland at Flushing and sailed down the English Channel to Le Havre. There we pulled the mast and went up the Seine to Paris and put the boat to bed for the winter. Then the Company called and said, "Open and office in Munich", so we moved the boat to the Chiemsee; a 10 NM x 10 NM lake between Munich and Salzburg. From there we trucked the boat to Italy on vacation and sailed across the Adriatic to Yugoslavia and explored the lovely islands down the coast. In '74 new top managment at United took the International Marketing Company and threw us out the window. On my first bounce, friends from the German aircraft engine company said they needed me to wave their flag in the USA, so for the next 16 years, home base was Munich, and I was covering program management, purchasing, and manufacturing problems for the German company. A fun time with something new every time the phone rang. In '74 we shipped our boat as deck cargo back to New York. In the following years, we covered the East coast from Cape May, NJ to Boston, MA and everything in between. In '92 we finally sold our "big" boat: New England harbors are getting too crowded: too many power boats; too many PWCs; no peace and quiet any more. That's when we bought a Bolger designed MICRO. Great boat, good sailing, but.... stepping a 22 foot solid spruce mast became a real chore, so, when I found a derelict ComPac 16 sitting on a rusted out trailer in Florida, I located the owner and bought it. Then it was rebuild the trailer: new springs; wheels; tires; bearings; and lights, and haul the find home and rebuild it, to an as-new condition. It has been a fun boat, but.... then I read the articles by Charlie Matthews about his cruises in the M-15 in MESSING ABOUT IN BOATS: read Lacey Hartje's plaintive cry for someone to please sell him an M-15, and gave him a call to learn more about the M-15s. Lacey put me in touch with the M web site, and so I read all your correspondence; comments; modifications, and the "my waves were bigger than your's " experiences, which tweaked my interest still more. Bob Eeg should hire you all as his marketing department! Joe Kidd answered questions and sent me a brochure for the M-15. Dan was going to sell me his boat, but then decided he couldn't live without it, but then sent me an e-mail with the Lat 38 ads for the M-15 in San Francisco, and in Panama City. You've heard the outcome of the story. Now I'm busy fixing bits and pieces: the delaminated lower companionway hatch board: the delaminated tiller; the small ding in the trailing edge of the rudder. Adding hasps to the sail locker lids (and after I make new companion way hatch boards a hasp there too). All I can say is, thanks for all the good information on the M-15, and all your enthusiastic help in getting us one. It's a great boat; an ideal boat; and we look forward to many years of happy gunk holing. Connie & Katrina Benneck M-15 #400 164 Carriage Drive Glastonbury, CT 06033-3232 Tel. (860) 633-5351 FAX (860) 633-4531 e-mail: chbenneck@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15 Date: 17 May 1998 20:01:10 -0400 Doug, Thanks for the kind words. After reading all the good things that the fellow M-15 owners had to say about the boat, I hesitated for all of about 10 minutes before calling back and saying, "I'll buy it sight-unseen". Now that I've had a chance to inspect the boat at leisure, I can only say, I got a gem. Boat is in great shape as is the outboard and all the equipment. The only item needing a bit of TLC is the delaminated bottom companionway hatch board, but other than that, it's in great shape. I've been puttering around doing things like adding hasps to the sail lockers; replacing a plexiglass block on the outboard mount with a "proper" teak pad, and repairing a small scar in the trailing edge of the rudder. Soon, I will be ready for an initial sail, and I'll let you know what my impressions were, but after all the glowing reports I have read on the web site, my comments will probably be in line with all the others, though, we don't have 30 Kt winds in the afternoon here in Connecticut, where I will do my initial sailing. Later this summer we'll head for Lake Champlain, which is a great sailing area. That's where it will get a real work-out! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: M_Boats: - Date: 17 May 1998 11:29:46 EDT Hi list.........first time for me.........bear with me............have M-17........older model with cast iron swing keel operated by worm gear oncrank.........works good, lasts ling time.....haha....... Anybody know where to get a sail plan on the boats ? Also, have a line on a M-23 ( 79 ) supposedly in good shape............need some suggested resale prices...... Would appreciate any info....reach me at ........AirEvacLen@aol.com Thanx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: M_Boats: Spreader cap Date: 17 May 1998 14:57:40 -0400 Hi everyone I just returned from a wonderful sail on Charleston Harbor and as we were putting Ruby Moon up I noticed that one of the nylon caps that holds the shroud against the end of the spreader had come loose and was lost. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, what did you do for a fix? Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEHowe Subject: M_Boats: Lyle Hess Cutter Date: 17 May 1998 18:28:48 EDT I was in Rockport, ME last weekend and stopped in at Rockport marine to peek at the new LH 29' cutter. She's a beauty, classic lines and will be fitted out in an appropriate manner. I hope that Wooden Boat takes the suggestion to do a feature on her, it will be beautiful. Fair winds, Thomas Howe, M-17 278, "Osprey" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SandmanAl Subject: M_Boats: New to List Date: 17 May 1998 23:32:24 EDT Hello to all; I'm new to the list and don't own a Montgomery. Several friends have had 15's, 17's and a 23. I would like to buy a 23'er somewhere in the Southwest. I currently sail an Aquarious 23 on the lakes of Arizona. I'm in a club and we take sailing trips to San Diego, Catalina, Lake Mead, and Mexico. If anyone knows of a 23 for sale, please let me know. If you're in the Phoenix area, look us up. LAKE PLEASANT SAILING CLUB Thanks; Sandy Fraser ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: M_Boats: Who owns the Siuslaw M17? Date: 17 May 1998 20:51:48 -0700 I was in Florence, Oregon, this past weekend and noticed a M17 at the Wild Winds docks on the Siuslaw River. If the owner (or someone who knows the owner) is on the list, please contact me off-line. I would like to know more about your sailing experiences there. Regards, Steve Parsons M15-159 'Sojornen' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Delivery trips Date: 18 May 1998 03:17:59 EDT Connie- I enjoyed hearing of your adventures in obtaining your M15. I drove to= =0AColorado (from the San Francisco area) to pick up my 1991 M15--also bo= ught=0Asight unseen. My trip(s) were not so smooth as yours. My first a= ttempt=0Afailed rather dramatically--spun pinion bearing in the middle of= Utah. I=0Arented a U-haul truck and flatbed trailer to haul my truck ba= ck home and=0Acalled the owner of the M15 to plead for an extension of ou= r contract I=0Asucceeded in getting to Colorado on the second attempt, = and the boat was as=0Aadvertised--virtually new. If it had ever been in = the water, it was only for=0Aa demo sail or two. It had never been regis= tered, and had been stored since=0Anew. The real adventure began in atte= mpting to get it back home. I should=0Ahave known it would be an uphill = battle (literally and figuratively) when a=0Ablinding hail storm started = just as I was departing. A blown trailer tire=0Ajust west of the Eisenho= wer tunnel (valve stem, actually--inspect yours if=0Athey have been in th= e sun!!) was the first in a comedy of errors.=0AFortunately, I had a pai= r of new tires and a mounted spare, so I made it to=0AGlenwood Springs by= nightfall. The next morning, while at the tire shop=0Ahaving the new ti= res mounted, a monster truck backed into the front of my=0A(diminutive by= comparison) truck, smashing in the grill and generally making a=0Amess o= f things. Anyway, I eventually made it home with at least the boat=0Aint= act. I would have to say that it was all worthwhile, as the M15's are=0A= remarkable little boats. I might add that I paid a bit more (OK, a *lot*= =0Amore) than you did, and mine did not include a motor! (I have since bo= ught a=0AHonda 2HP). Hope you enjoy yours! Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "B=E9b=E9 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer Subject: M_Boats: alternatives to hasps, teak ply Date: 18 May 1998 03:46:57 EDT In a message dated 5/16/98 6:03:57 PM, you wrote: >Now I'm busy fixing bits and pieces: the delaminated lower companionway >hatch board: the delaminated tiller; the small ding in the trailing edge >of the rudder. >Adding hasps to the sail locker lids (and after I make new companion way >hatch boards a hasp there too). Connie, If you have not yet installed hasps on the lazarette hatches, you might want to consider a line/cleat locking system such as seemed to be supplied with the later boats (mine has). The system is as follows: a 3/16" braided line attached to an eye on the underside of each hatch is led down and forward small clam cleats that are easily accessible on either side of the companionway hatch below. It does require one to open the companionway hatch to gain access to the lazarettes, but it has the advantage of one (two)less protrusion(s) in the cockpit. Also, I am thinking that I might forego the hasp on the companionway hatch for a less conventional approach. Just fore ward of the leading edge of the sliding hatch, I intend to drill a hole laterally through one of the teak rails that hold the sliding hatch captive. Through this hole I will insert a "Sesame" (or comparable) long hasp combination padlock, so that when fully inserted, the body of the lock blocks the hatch from sliding forward. When not in use, the lock is stored below, and the hatch boards, lacking protrusions, can be more easily stacked. By the way, I made a set of solid teak boards for a friend. After looking into teak ply I realized that the difference in cost was not as significant as I expected, and there is no comparison in the quality. I made three boards (instead of the original two) from solid 3/4" stock. By rabbeting the edges, the boards fit snugly in the slots, and the extra thickness is only evident when below. I was able to do a step/bevel detail where the boards meet that is much more waterproof than just the bevel found on the 1/4" original boards. I think they turned out well, and plan to do a set for my boat as well. They are certainly heavier than the originals, but even my originals are somewhat warped and have areas where the veneer is chipping--and that with virtually no use and having been stored! Scott Grometer PS: whatever wood you choose, you might want to consider Cetol Marine as a sealant instead of oil or varnish--the stuff is amazing in its longevity!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: M_Boats: VHF Antenna Mount Help ? Date: 18 May 1998 07:28:11 -0700 I have a Metz VHF antenna to mount on my M-15 and P-15. I'm looking for thoughts/experience on ways of physically mounting the antenna on the mast in a way that will make it easy to take off for trailering. The antenna has a mounting bracket like an inverted "L". For the M-15 I assume that I could pop rivet the vertical leg of the L to the mast and screw the antenna through the bottom of the L.. This doesn't make it particularly easy to dismount for trailering, in that I've got to first unscrew the coax from the antenna, then unscrew the antenna from the mount - adds 5 minutes to the get-ready time plus repetition may result in damage. For the P-15, the mast cross-section appears to be too small, thus too curved for this to work well. Any thoughts on adapters? Second - I'm looking for other alternatives. Other places to mount the antenna, or for temporary use other types of antenna. It seems that a "rubber ducky" at the end of several feet of coax mounted "somewhere" (thoughts on where?) might meet that need. Any thoughts or experiences? Thanks -- dwf M-15 #189 -- I haven't lived with her long enough yet to have learned her name -- P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" -- 'Tis better to putter with a Potter than potter with a putter ! Ridgecrest, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: VHF Antenna Mount Help ? Date: 18 May 1998 08:53:37 -0600 I work in the communications industry, so perhaps I can offer some advice. (I mean good advice. I can ALWAYS be counted on to offer advice.) One of the calculations involved in predicting coverage is called minimum effective antenna height. That is the height an antenna "appears" to be located at when, in fact, it is physically lower. Or looking at it another way, it is the minimum height to which you must raise your antenna to see an improvement in coverage. It varies with frequency and ground conductivity but here's a few typical values: Above Saltwater @ 155 MHz = 25' Above Good (conductive) soil = 6' Fresh water would lie somewhere in between. The point being that for short masts, you may not gain as much as you think be moving your antenna to the masthead. If you use a portable marine radio with the "rubber ducky" heliflex type antenna, you can gain 8 to 15 dB by using a "real" antenna mounted at any height. That's a big improvement. Another thought, 1/4 wave or 5/8 wave type antennas require a ground plane to operate efficiently. They're best on the roof of a car. 1/2 wave antennas do not require a ground plane and are quite happy mounted at the end of a mast or a pole. OK, now go sailing. ---------- > From: Dennis W. Farrell > To: WWPotterWeb ; Montgomery Boats List > Subject: M_Boats: VHF Antenna Mount Help ? > Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 8:28 AM > > I have a Metz VHF antenna to mount on my M-15 and P-15. I'm looking for > thoughts/experience on ways of physically mounting the antenna on the mast > in a way that will make it easy to take off for trailering. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Gordon Townley" Subject: Re: M_Boats: VHF Antenna Mount Help ? Date: 18 May 1998 11:19:37 -0700 Dennis W. Farrell wrote: > I have a Metz VHF antenna to mount on my M-15 and P-15. I'm looking > for > thoughts/experience on ways of physically mounting the antenna on the > mast > in a way that will make it easy to take off for trailering. The > antenna > has a mounting bracket like an inverted "L". For the M-15 I assume > that I > could pop rivet the vertical leg of the L to the mast and screw the > antenna > through the bottom of the L.. This doesn't make it particularly easy > to > dismount for trailering, in that I've got to first unscrew the coax > from > the antenna, then unscrew the antenna from the mount - adds 5 minutes > to > the get-ready time plus repetition may result in damage. For the > P-15, > the mast cross-section appears to be too small, thus too curved for > this to > work well. Any thoughts on adapters? > > Second - I'm looking for other alternatives. Other places to mount > the > antenna, or for temporary use other types of antenna. It seems that a > > "rubber ducky" at the end of several feet of coax mounted "somewhere" > (thoughts on where?) might meet that need. Any thoughts or > experiences? > > Thanks -- dwf > M-15 #189 -- I haven't lived with her long enough yet to have > learned > her name -- > P-15 #1086 "PELICAN" -- 'Tis better to putter with a Potter than > potter with a putter ! > Ridgecrest, CA I mounted what I believe is the same antenna to my M17. I mounted it at the top of the mast with the cable inside the mast, and a deck connector then to the radio in the cabin. I just unhook it at the deck to trailer the boat. I have never unhooked the antenna from the mast top and we trailer all over the place. Never had a problem. Y ou might want to secure the actual whip when trailering but I've never found that to be a problem. Good luck. Jay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: New to List Date: 18 May 1998 17:21:44 EDT Sandy I own an m-17 and sail it at Lake Pleasant as well.......surprised you haven't seen the M-23 docked out there on occasion.............it was for sale....but they don't come cheap........... I don't belong to any of the clubs or organizations but I'm always open to new sailing experiences.... If you get a chance, drop me a line at AirEvacLen@aol.com Smooth Sailin' Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Delivery trips Date: 19 May 1998 11:35:21 -0400 Scott, Your delivery tale from Colorado makes me very thankful that we had no problems at all. The condition of the tires worried me, but with two people saying - not to worry, you can always put on the brand new spare - we took off and had a totally uneventful trip. But at the top of my "to do" list is new tires! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: alternatives to hasps, teak ply Date: 19 May 1998 11:42:05 -0400 Scott, Thanks for your excellent suggestions regarding the hasps and the hatch boards. It's too late for the hasps on the sail lockers; they have already been modified and installed, but now you make me re-think my teak plywood replacement idea and consider your new approach. On my Tripp-Lentsch 29 I had teak hatch boards, with the type of joints you describe, and they were excellent. So that may be the preferred way to go. Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Just Checking In Date: 18 May 1998 18:16:10 -0700 Connie, When do you plan to get your new toy in the water for that first sail? I'll be interested in your first impressions. I was really impressed by your recent post in which you told of some of your boating/sailing adventures. I would be less than truthful if I didn't admit considerable envy and admiration. I've been following the hatch board discussions and, since I have to be in the bay area next week, may opt for some teak plywood instead of the mahogany plywood I've already got. (Scott, your comments about the teak made sense, especially the miter cuts.) I was on a sailboat once (don't remember what kind) that had spring-loaded pins under the seats which locked down the locker covers. Lanyards were attached to the pins and lead to the cabin. A pull on the lanyard opened the hatches. It was simple and effective. Wish I has studied the design more carefully. At present, the line/cleat idea seems to be the most simple. I'll think on these things... Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Just Checking In Date: 19 May 1998 21:27:52 -0400 Joe I'm still puttering with the new toy. The rudder trailing edge "bite" has been repaired with a graving piece. I've installed hasps on the sail lockers, but fitted them so that the hasps will stay put in the closed position (slight interference fit) so that they don't catch you at the shins. Tomorrow I'm off to Boston to get either teak or teak plywood - le't see what the price differential will be - plus a few other "goodies": a topping lift block and topping lift line plus other items on my list. Don't think I'll be in the water before the end of the month. Will report in and let you know how well the wine cellar functions and if the beer stays cool too! Word of warning though, never put aluminum beer cans in the bilge if salt water can get in. The salt water acts as an electrolyte, and in short order, when you dive in to get a cold beer, you find that the can is 1/3 empty. Huh??? What happened? Then on closer inspection you discover a pin hole in the aluminum can wall, caused by galvanic action, and the pressure in the can neatly ejected your beer. Bilgewater and beer is not a drink I recommend for a thirsty sailor. Live and learn! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: (Fwd) palmrs@knight.cvfn.org (fwd) Date: 18 May 1998 20:55:00 -0500 (CDT) Hey, I tried: Randy P. Forwarded message: Dear Randolph Palmer, Regarding your story suggestion, we are not planning on doing a feature on the 32' Lyle Hess cutter that Rockport Marine is building, however, we are going to try to get photos for our "Launchings" column. Thanks for writing with the suggestion. Sincerely, Betsy Powell Editorial Assistant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: New to List Date: 18 May 1998 23:26:18 -0400 Hi Sandy.. Welcome to the group. Arizona seems to be a hotbed of Montgomery activity!! There's several M-23's available.. I seem to remember a blue one out your way, and 'course, Randy's ( in Wisconsin??) Check the archives for the post. The owner has a video that he'll send. Methinks the address is at my office. If so, I'll post it tomorrow. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer Subject: M_Boats: Trailer tires-Radials Date: 19 May 1998 01:59:01 EDT In a message dated 5/18/98 5:46:48 PM, you wrote: >at the top of my "to >do" list is new tires! Connie, After much consideration, I finally switched to car radials on my Trail-R= ite=0Atrailer (M15). There were many differing opinions on whether this = was a good=0Aidea. Some suggested that the sidewalls were not stiff enou= gh and that fish-=0Atailing would be the result. I have not experienced = any fish tailing to date.=0AWhat I have noticed is a *much* smoother ride= , less of a tendency for the boat=0Aand trailer to bounce (with the old b= ias ply tires, I would often see the=0Atrailer wheels leave the ground ov= er the slightest bump), and the peace of=0Amind that comes from having a = higher quality tire. I searched around for=0Adecent Bias ply tires, but = was disappointed in what I found. One tire dealer=0Atold me that many of= the imported trailer tires were lasting less than 2000=0Amiles. I went = with 155SR-12 Goodyear Tiempos--about $20.00 ea. at a local=0Awholesale/d= iscount house (there are still some Hondas and a few other mini=0Acars ou= t there that use this size, and everyone seems to stock them so they=0Aca= n advertise "starting from $29.95"). I have spent more for bicycle tires= !,=0Aand yet these are decent tires with good tread wear, temperature, an= d traction=0Aratings. Goodyear makes an actual trailer radial (Goodyear = Marathon Radial),=0Abut when I last checked, 13" was the smallest availab= le. Also, I have noticed=0Athat nobody seems to balance there trailer wh= eels. I did this last time, and=0Ait seems to make a big difference in t= he smoothness of the ride (will probably=0Ahelp tire life also, though th= ey will probably crack before even a quarter of=0Athe tread is used up!) Anyway, you might want to consider this option. Scott Grometer, M15 #478, B=E9b=E9=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer tires-Radials Date: 18 May 1998 23:30:43 -0700 Scott, Was it necessary to buy new rims to fit the radial tires? Did the radial= s make any difference in fender or frame clearances? Was the height of the trailer raised? I have a critical 1/2-inch clearance margin getting Poco= A Poco into my garage. For $20 per tire, that's no more than I pay for the cheap import trailer tires. Our roads in this area are so rough, the smoother ride -- plus the longer wear -- would be worth the expense. Joe Kidd ---------- In a message dated 5/18/98 5:46:48 PM, you wrote: >at the top of my "to >do" list is new tires! Connie, After much consideration, I finally switched to car radials on my Trail-Rite trailer (M15). There were many differing opinions on whether this was a good idea. Some suggested that the sidewalls were not stiff enough and that fish- tailing would be the result. I have not experienced any fish tailing to date. What I have noticed is a *much* smoother ride, less of a tendency for the boat and trailer to bounce (with the old bias ply tires, I would often see the trailer wheels leave the ground over the slightest bump), and the peace o= f mind that comes from having a higher quality tire. I searched around for decent Bias ply tires, but was disappointed in what I found. One tire dealer told me that many of the imported trailer tires were lasting less than 20= 00 miles. I went with 155SR-12 Goodyear Tiempos--about $20.00 ea. at a loca= l wholesale/discount house (there are still some Hondas and a few other min= i cars out there that use this size, and everyone seems to stock them so th= ey can advertise "starting from $29.95"). I have spent more for bicycle tires!, and yet these are decent tires with good tread wear, temperature, and traction ratings. Goodyear makes an actual trailer radial (Goodyear Marathon Radial), but when I last checked, 13" was the smallest available. Also, I have noticed that nobody seems to balance there trailer wheels. I did this last time, and it seems to make a big difference in the smoothness of the ride (will probably help tire life also, though they will probably crack before even a quarte= r of the tread is used up!) Anyway, you might want to consider this option. Scott Grometer, M15 #478, B=E9b=E9 ---------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer tires-Radials Date: 19 May 1998 07:57:03 -0500 (CDT) from American Tire company. True "trailer" tires are very expensive (I got a 14" and it was about $85 mounted on a rim, including rim). But the difference is dramatic. Trailer tires are labeled ST - and much much stiffer sidewalls, are built tougher with more material and are more bruise resistant. THis is due in part because trailer suspension is much more abusive than auto/truck suspension. Jay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: VHF Antenna Mount Help ? Date: 19 May 1998 11:12:45 EDT Dennis Your dilema is one that plagues all trailer sailors in that set-up and break down are an intricate part of the job...........oh well,,,,,,,,,as for an alternate location for mounting your antenna, any place will do as long as it's not in the way......just remember, vhf is line of sight and you can expect a considerable reduction in performance........hence, the mast mount. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: Looking for a M15 Date: 19 May 1998 08:30:53 -0700 Recently joined the list. The dialogues and info are great. I am not yet an owner of a Montgomery 15, but am looking for one. Anyone with any leads on one becoming available or that currently is for sale--please let me know. We have a 1995 Catalina Capri 18 with trailer and 5hp Nissan that is for sale. Thanks for keeping this list going. Lots of good stuff here! We are located in San Diego County but can travel to find an M15- within reason! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: Just Checking In Date: 19 May 1998 11:33:21 EDT Joe I have an M-17 with the ( I guess ) standard cleat and line arrangement but I REALLY like the idea with the line and snap pins. That way I could leave the line attached at the cleat and still have the lazarette secure.......I'm gonna start lookin' around....thanks for the idea ..... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: Looking for a M15 Date: 19 May 1998 11:45:12 EDT Francene You just missed a great deal on an M-15.......there was a beauty up for sale here in Phoenix at the Sailboat shop.......I have a 17 and would druel over this baby each time I went by...........It took me a year to find my Montgomery, now they are all over the place......LOL......or at least it seems that way...hehe......... You might give them a call sometime at ( 602 ) 894-5494......ask for Dennis and tell them Leonard sent you ........ Smooth sailin' Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer tires-Radials Date: 19 May 1998 10:23:55 -0600 Re: Trailer Tires-Radials We trailer or M-15 quite a bit, often across the hot Nevada desert. Each year we where loosing 1 to 2 tires, the tires would just come apart. We place most of our camping gear in the M-15 which adds significantly to the weight. Each time a tire failed I tried a new brand, but nothing seemed to help, and there 12 inch bias ply tires do not have warranties. Finally, on advise from our local tire center, I switched to car radials (they have warranties). I bought the very best ones he offered, as I was tired of changing tires along the side of the road. It's been just at a year now with the 12 inch car radials, and I am very pleased. Last Summer we trailered 2,000 + miles over to the Puget Sound and back without any problems. Granted, we did not cross the hot Nevada desert. The tires did not raise out M-15 as far as I can tell. We used the original rims, and had the tires balanced. The ride is much smoother, the trailer "wiggles" rather than bounces over bumps. Fish-tailing has never been a problem, (we tow with a Toyota 4-Runner) . The tires are noticeably wider than the original bias ply, but seem to fit onto the stock rims just fine. We have a Zeiman trailer. Would recommend 12 inch car radials over stock trailer bias ply's. Randy Graves M-15 408 "Dinky Boat" Idaho Falls, ID ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: M_Boats: Welcome new M15ers Date: 19 May 1998 15:21:11 +0000 Connie, and other new M15 owners, Welcome to the group. I think you will enjoy the different opinions on everything. FWIW. Since you have been talking about replaceing your cockpit hatch boards, consider this. There has been some discussion in the group regarding the best place for a compass. If you mount it on the bulkhead it interferes with seating. If it is on the step into the cabin, it is hard to see when you have passengers. If it on top of the cabin, it can get dinged during setup and takedown. I solved this by makeing an 'extra' top board for the hatch and mounting my compass there, where it is always visable and not in the way. When I store my boat, the original board is used, and when sailing, I install the compass board. The added advantage is that when the compass board is used, the cabin is battened down, which is a good idea on San Francisco bay, where I almost always sail. Since I am discoursing, I guess I will contribute some hard earned wisdom regarding trailering the M15. I find it very important to have the swing keel full retracted when launching and recovery from a TrailRite trailer. If the keel is not secured when launching, it will drop and catch on the aft trailer roller. Your boat is then hung up, still on the trailer but not afloat, and you are pushing and pulling and cussing and wondering what in hell is wrong. Just push real hard and you might break something, or get smart and pull the boat back on the trailer and raise the keel. Fortunately, I got smart before doing any detectable damage. The other hazard is more subtle. If the keel is not raised when loading the boat onto the trailer, the trailer rollers will push the keel into the boat and *may* wedge the keel halyard between the keel and the side of the keel well, which will keep the keel from dropping the next time you launch. When the swing keel will not drop, you may not notice it, and you discover you can tack sideways really well but can't make much forward progress. Interesting. I found I could not pull the halyard free and ended up putting the boat back on the trailer and jacking up the forward part of the fixed keel about 4-6 inches, and then tugging on the keel halyard (from outside the boat) until the swing keel dropped free. All of this is based on my experience with a Trailrite trailer. If you have another type of trailer it may not apply. One other thing. That knot in the swing keel halyard is there for a purpose; to keep the keel from swinging too far forward and stressing the pivot pin. Knot, what knot? There should be a knot in the halyard about 15 inches out. As mentioned, I sail San Francisco bay and will testify that the M is one of the best heavy weather boats for its size on the water. I am currently recovering from prostate surgery (TURP) so it will be a couple of weeks until I can get back out, but until then it is 'full stream ahead.' Bob M15 #208 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: Welcome new M15ers Date: 19 May 1998 19:03:35 EDT Bob Good info on the M-15........here's wishing you a speedy recovery from your surgery.....see you on the water soon... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: M_Boats: Iron keel Date: 19 May 1998 19:26:40 EDT Anybody else have an M-17 with a cast iron swing keel ? I have an early model which does not have the combination shoal keel and centerboard.....also, I see a lot of hull #'s on the list...........I know where to find the year but where do you look for the hull # ? Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: 208 to 207 Date: 19 May 1998 17:19:27 -0700 Bob, I noticed your M-15 hull number is 208. Yours was the next one out of the mold after mine in 1982. I just finished mounting a new compass in a teak box attached under the wooden bridgedeck. All I can add is "amen" regarding the centerboard being raised during the launch/retrieval with the trailer. In my case, the keel halyard was not secure and the keel lowered undetected as soon as the boat started to float. It was a puzzlement for awhile and the cause of much consternation. Regarding your recent TURP, may God bless you with a speedy recovery. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: New to List Date: 19 May 1998 23:09:11 -0400 Hi Sandy.. Rich Nichols has the M-23 for sale...a light blue hull. He's at 602-238-8867. Also try 602-375-0805. No motor, looks nice on the video. He's come down a bit to $15.500 methinks. As of 6pm today, it's available. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Iron keel Date: 19 May 1998 23:30:31 -0400 Hi lenny.. Stargazer has a cast iron swing keel...methinks most M-17 have them. Mine uses a rope to pull the keel up, some early models used a gear arraingment. The hull number is on the transom..MMP172940279 is the number on Stargazer. MMP17= Montgomery Marine Products 17 foot, serial number 294, date of manufacture..2/1979 Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Iron keel Date: 19 May 1998 20:24:47 +0000 InternetHarvey Wilson wrote: > > Hi lenny.. > > Stargazer has a cast iron swing keel...methinks most M-17 have them. > Mine uses a rope to pull the keel up, some early models used a gear > arraingment. > > The hull number is on the transom..MMP172940279 is the number on Stargazer. > > MMP17= Montgomery Marine Products 17 foot, serial number 294, date of > manufacture..2/1979 > > Harvey/Atl > > M-17 Stargazer #294 Hi Harvey I think Lenny is referring to the original 17 swing keel, which had the trunion/crank arrangement as designed by Lyle Hess and was made in 1973 and 4. We made no more than about 20 of them if my memory is correct. I believe that you have the keel/cb model (NOT a swing keel) with a cast iron cb. Jerry Montgomery ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer Subject: M_Boats: Radial Tire info Date: 20 May 1998 00:57:12 EDT In a message dated 5/18/98 11:30:17 PM, you wrote: >Was it necessary to buy new rims to fit the radial tires? Did the radials > >make any difference in fender or frame clearances? Was the height of the > >trailer raised? Joe, The original rims work perfectly. Mine are the painted white spoke type that were supplied with the Trail-Rite. The 155SR-12 is a little bit wider than the original 5.30-12 tires (some may have 4.80-12), but there is no clearance problem in my case. Mine are still within the fenders (which is to say that the fenders are still the widest part of the trailer). The height of my radials is virtually the same as the bias ply tires I removed. If you have the same setup it should be no problem. I am really happy with the switch. I have about 1000 miles on mine, and the tires look brand new. A friend also made the switch with similar results, and is happy that he did. By the way, during my trip from Colorado where I picked up the boat, I picked up a lot of road tar and even some concrete on the hull behind the trailer wheels. Last summer I purchased some rubber mud flaps that were the perfect size for the trailer. I drilled two holes in the angle irons that support the aft part of the fender, and in the flaps themselves, and mounted them with stainless bolts, fender washers, and nylocks. Nary a spec on the hull! Let me know if you have any other questions. Scott PS: I bought the Goodyears at the "Auto Parts Club" here in the bay area. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer Subject: M_Boats: Speedy recovery! Date: 20 May 1998 01:10:42 EDT Bob, Hope you have a speedy recovery! Your advice on making sure the board is up before retrieval or launch is very sound. I made the mistake in both directions (during a fast approaching thunder storm--nothing like the fear of lightning to make one do stupid things). It is too embarrassing to go into details, but suffice it to say that only the toughness of the boat saved it from what could have been considerable damage (which is to say that the idiot in charge sure did not!). Scott Grometer, M15 #478 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Radial Tire info Date: 19 May 1998 23:24:45 -0700 Thanks, Scott. I'll check some of the local tire dealers -- maybe even Costco -- to see what I can find. The mudflaps also sound like they might save some clean-up labor. (Wonder if they make tiny ones with shapely chrome inserts like the truckers use...) Joe Kidd ---------- > From: Wilsometer > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Radial Tire info > Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 9:57 PM > > > In a message dated 5/18/98 11:30:17 PM, you wrote: > > >Was it necessary to buy new rims to fit the radial tires? Did the radials > > > >make any difference in fender or frame clearances? Was the height of the > > > >trailer raised? > > Joe, > The original rims work perfectly. Mine are the painted white spoke type that > were supplied with the Trail-Rite. The 155SR-12 is a little bit wider than > the original 5.30-12 tires (some may have 4.80-12), but there is no clearance > problem in my case. Mine are still within the fenders (which is to say that > the fenders are still the widest part of the trailer). The height of my > radials is virtually the same as the bias ply tires I removed. If you have > the same setup it should be no problem. I am really happy with the switch. I > have about 1000 miles on mine, and the tires look brand new. A friend also > made the switch with similar results, and is happy that he did. > By the way, during my trip from Colorado where I picked up the boat, I picked > up a lot of road tar and even some concrete on the hull behind the trailer > wheels. Last summer I purchased some rubber mud flaps that were the perfect > size for the trailer. I drilled two holes in the angle irons that support the > aft part of the fender, and in the flaps themselves, and mounted them with > stainless bolts, fender washers, and nylocks. Nary a spec on the hull! > Let me know if you have any other questions. > Scott > PS: I bought the Goodyears at the "Auto Parts Club" here in the bay area. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: Iron keel Date: 20 May 1998 09:48:07 EDT Harvey Thanks for the info.......I'm gonna go out right now and take a look......sounds like we may have sister ships...............are you in Arizona also ? The info I got on the Montgomerys depicted only the combo keel/board......mine has the worm drive arrangement and works ok for me.............however.....LOL......remind me to tell you of my first time out......" OUCH "............ Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: differences in m15 model years Date: 20 May 1998 08:24:20 -0700 Thanks to Lenny and Joe Silva for info on m15's for sale. Any list members in SoCal out there who know of any in this area, please let me know. Not knowing much about older models of the m15, ( I sent for a brochure in '93) what if any are the differences in features, construction or design of say, models from 1980 through 93? I'm going to look at one this weekend that I saw on a guys lot and asked about. Since he wasn't using much, ( he had another slipped boat) he said he'd sell it for 2500 firm, an '81 I believe. Don't know if it comes iwth a motor, but the trailer was galvanized and in good shape. Didn't get to check it out then, but hope to this weekend. What are some things to look for? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer tires-Radials Date: 21 May 1998 11:16:35 -0400 Scott Thanks again for your trailer tire recommendation. Sound like that is the way to go. I'm not into the Nevada desert problem. Here in the East, when we have a heat wave it gets in the 90s, but otherwise summer is in the 80-85 degree range. What is the load carrying rating of your Goodyears? High enough to give a good weight margin considering weight of trailer; boat and supplies? I agree with you regarding balancing of the wheels and tires. Did it with the new wheels and tires I put on the ComPac trailer, and since I had experience with unbalanced tires on the original MICRO trailer, as an engineer I want balanced rotating masses, and consider the cost a small price to pay for peace of mind. In addition, if you don't balance your wheels, you are just running a vibration machine that will shake loose anything it can find on your boat and trailer, and since the M-15 tows so easily at 65-70 MPH, as far as I'm concerned, balanced wheels are a must. Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Robert Becker : M_Boats: Welcome new M15ers Date: 21 May 1998 11:02:45 -0400 --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- Message-ID: <199805192222.PAA09495@dry3.jps.net> Connie, and other new M15 owners, Welcome to the group. I think you will enjoy the different opinions on everything. FWIW. Since you have been talking about replaceing your cockpit hatch boards, consider this. There has been some discussion in the group regarding the best place for a compass. If you mount it on the bulkhead it interferes with seating. If it is on the step into the cabin, it is hard to see when you have passengers. If it on top of the cabin, it can get dinged during setup and takedown. I solved this by makeing an 'extra' top board for the hatch and mounting my compass there, where it is always visable and not in the way. When I store my boat, the original board is used, and when sailing, I install the compass board. The added advantage is that when the compass board is used, the cabin is battened down, which is a good idea on San Francisco bay, where I almost always sail. Since I am discoursing, I guess I will contribute some hard earned wisdom regarding trailering the M15. I find it very important to have the swing keel full retracted when launching and recovery from a TrailRite trailer. If the keel is not secured when launching, it will drop and catch on the aft trailer roller. Your boat is then hung up, still on the trailer but not afloat, and you are pushing and pulling and cussing and wondering what in hell is wrong. Just push real hard and you might break something, or get smart and pull the boat back on the trailer and raise the keel. Fortunately, I got smart before doing any detectable damage. The other hazard is more subtle. If the keel is not raised when loading the boat onto the trailer, the trailer rollers will push the keel into the boat and *may* wedge the keel halyard between the keel and the side of the keel well, which will keep the keel from dropping the next time you launch. When the swing keel will not drop, you may not notice it, and you discover you can tack sideways really well but can't make much forward progress. Interesting. I found I could not pull the halyard free and ended up putting the boat back on the trailer and jacking up the forward part of the fixed keel about 4-6 inches, and then tugging on the keel halyard (from outside the boat) until the swing keel dropped free. All of this is based on my experience with a Trailrite trailer. If you have another type of trailer it may not apply. One other thing. That knot in the swing keel halyard is there for a purpose; to keep the keel from swinging too far forward and stressing the pivot pin. Knot, what knot? There should be a knot in the halyard about 15 inches out. As mentioned, I sail San Francisco bay and will testify that the M is one of the best heavy weather boats for its size on the water. I am currently recovering from prostate surgery (TURP) so it will be a couple of weeks until I can get back out, but until then it is 'full stream ahead.' Bob M15 #208 --------- End forwarded message ---------- Bob: Hope your recovery is speedy, and that you"ll on the water soon. Thanks for all the excellent information. As an old (in more than one sense of the word) fixed keel sailor, I'm sure I would have made the same mistakes - you get too soon old and too late smart - the first times I went sailing in the new toy. Thanks for the instructions and saving me from that sort of goof! Also appreciate your comments on the compass mounting location. It's such an obvious place, but it takes inspiration and contemplating your navel to come up with such a nice solution. connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 21 May 1998 21:23:59 -0400 Joe Kidd Joe, You mentioned being able to raise your tiller. A thought: cut tiller about 6 inches foreward of where the bungee cord hole is located. Mount strap hinge on top side of tiller - which should be able to take all the "normal" forces on the tiller while sailing; and either a barrel bolt on the bottom side that you can firmly lock in the closed position - or as a trial, some type of spring loaded catch so that when the tiller is down, it locks in the down position. That should give you the benefit of lifting the tiller out of the way when at anchor during "happy hour"; or locking it in the normal operating position. You mentioned a factory boom support. When I unloaded my new toy I found a boom crutch - a tube with a "V" at the top with the sides of the V leather covered. From the bottom of the V to the end of the tube is 31 inches. But, so far I have found no place to use it: i.e., no hole it fits into; no means of positioning it, so, since you say you have a factory boom support, please tell me what it looks like and how it is mounted. ....is there a fitting that goes in the top rudder gudgeon to hold the tube? - or do you hire a man servant who runs in back of the boat and holds it over his head? Help please! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SandmanAl Subject: Re: M_Boats: Looking for a M15 Date: 20 May 1998 21:55:40 EDT A Montgomery 15 is for sale at the Sailboat Shop in Phx Az. Only a 5.5 hour drive. Check their website and call them. The boat and trailer is immaculate. SAIL AZ The Sailboat Shop Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 20 May 1998 20:50:41 -0600 Connie, Our M-15 (1988) as a metal tube as you described, apx. 31 inches long with a "V" at one end. One end of this devices does fit into the gudgeons, with the rudder removed. We use it to support the Mast while the M is on her trailer. Randy randy@www1.eitc.edu Eastern Idaho Technical College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 20 May 1998 22:46:27 -0700 Connie, There may be an even more simple modification for raising the tiller: I've been studying how to make a connect/disconnect set-up for the rudder kick-up bungee, thereby allowing the tiller to pivot on the bolt which already attaches it to the rudder. If another solution (without cutting and weakening the tiller) has been tried by anyone, I would like to know. It sounds like you have only the top 31-inches of a factory boom crutch. My mast carrier/crutch is a 39-inch long, 3/4-inch diameter stainless tube with a "V" at the top, with pintles welded at the bottom which fit into the rudder gudgeons. (Adding eight inches of tubing to your existing crutch would probably be cheaper than paying a hired servant.) Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Boom Crutch Date: 21 May 1998 07:57:11 -0700 Connie, Oops! I forgot to mention that I shortened my stainless boom crutch six-inches (so the boat would fit into my garage). The shaft on the crutch was originally 45-inches, not 39. The shorter height works well until it is time to raise the mast; the lower angle allows the mast to hit the edge of the sliding hatch when attaching the mast to the tabernacle. Until making an extension to use just while raising and lowering the mast, I had to hire that servant to hold the mast over his/her head while I attached the tabernacle fitting. Joe Kidd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: coxenr@juno.com Subject: M_Boats: M15 Date: 21 May 1998 12:24:04 -0700 I'm looking for a M15 for sale in the San Francisco bay area. Do you have a listing of same? Thanks Roy coxenr@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: steve_whitchurch@mentorg.com (Steve Whitchurch) Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery17 Date: 21 May 1998 15:02:02 -0700 Hi; I just subscribed to this list to get information about the Montgomery 17. I'm in the process of picking a boat, and the Montgomery 17 is on my list. If you would not mind answering a couple of question, that would be great. 1. How easy is the Montgomery 17 to tow? 2. How easy is the Montgomery 17 to launch from a boat ramp? one person, two persons? 3. Most of my sailing will be on lakes and rivers. Once in a while I may take the boat up north to the sound in Washinton state. How is the Montgomery 17 for weekend trips? Week long trips? 4. I have a wife and two kids. What about room on the boat? 5. I'm also looking at the following boats. Can you campare the Montgomery 17 with any of the following? Potter 19 Catalina 22 Com-Pac 19 6. What sails do you have for your Montgomery 17? 7. What would you add to the basic boat to make it sail easier? 8. Whats the market like for used boats? Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.... Regards Steve -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont 15 Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Date: 21 May 1998 19:58:06 EDT Roy, I have a beautiful 1984 M 15,Kokopelli, that is fully ticked out with everything from boom tent and dodger to running back stays. I am taking her to British Columbia this summer, and when I return she will be on the market in September or late August. I keep the boat in Alameda. If you'd like to take a look, just let me know. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery17 Date: 21 May 1998 21:00:07 EDT Steve You will have a long way to go to beat a Montgomery..........in answer to your questions.... 1. I tow my M-17 with a Toyota 4wd truck and have very little problems even with a 4 cyclinder.......steep launch ramps require using the transfer case in low gear but not locking the hubs...... 2. Depending on your trailer and whether it has an extender ( mine doesn't ) ....launching is very easy and requires about 3 feet of water. 3. The M-17 fares very well for overnight trips with ample room for ice chests, duffle bags, and bedding.......for two people it's adequate........think of it as camping. 4. To have the wife and kids on board for a weekend will require some maneuvering......preferably at a landing where the kids can roam......The cockpit is large with comfortable high coamings and room to streatch out.....cockpit cushions are a must. ( closed foam ) 5. The M-17 is a very stable boat and " feels " much larger than she really is.....matter of fact most people who see her on the water think she is a 20 footer....... The M-17 is heavier than the Potter thus accounting for her stability........there is more room below decks in a Cat 22, and with a " pop top " you can stand up in the Cat. As for the Compac 19, I cannot say.......you're getting into a " higher end " market there.......... 6. The original M-17's came with up to a 170 genoa......I have a 150 for mine and find it is adequate.......I also have a 150 drifter which works well in the lighter desert air......I haven't flown the " chute " yet because I spend a lot of time single handed and don't find it worth the hassle.......looks pretty though........ With one set of reef points and a storm jib I have been in 25-30 kt winds with waves breaking over the bow and felt secure.........the boat handles well under all configurations and all points of sail........ The original sails were nylon and I have since replaced the main with a dacron sail......quite a bit stiffer, but works really well. I added a set of cam cleats to my boat.......it came with jam cleats..........it's a personal thing.....but I find it's faster handling the sheets The boat should come with a topping lift, if not install one and a halyard..... I have seen the boats on the market in good shape from $ 3500 - $ 8500 depending on year, rigging, equipment, motor, and trailer. Unless you find one in Bristol condition you will always have a little work to do on it.....but then,,,,,,,,there's always something to do on the boat, isn't there ? Smooth Sailin' Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery17 Date: 21 May 1998 19:55:26 -0600 Steve, don't think this is any kind of a slam against you. It's not. We all welcome any questions and love to proselytize our Montgomerys....but perhaps it's time to put together a Montgomery FAQ?? Would anyone be interested in perusing through the archives and assembling a FAQ based on the most common questions that have come up in the last year or so? How to contact the builder Boat comparisons Sail makers Newsletter Tow vehicles Outboard choices Etc. I'd be glad to host it on my web page and see that it is distributed to every new list member. What do you all think? ---------- > From: Steve Whitchurch > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery17 > Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 4:02 PM > > Hi; > > I just subscribed to this list to get information about the Montgomery 17. > > I'm in the process of picking a boat, and the Montgomery 17 is on my list. > If you would not mind answering a couple of question, that would be great. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Iron keel Date: 21 May 1998 23:55:45 -0400 Hi Jerry.. Yes, Stargazer is the keel/ iron centerboard model (you should know, natch) I didn't realize the first M-17 was made with only a swing keel. I thought the worm gear was just the way the CB was cranked up. Any thoughts on the way the original lines to the mast went?? I have lots of empty cam and clam cleats begging for line. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Iron keel Date: 21 May 1998 23:55:46 -0400 Hi Lenny.. I live in Marietta..suburb of Atlanta, Ga. Let us know what your boat# is. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 22 May 1998 00:05:31 EDT Lenny has a question about iron keels and hull numbers. I have a M-17 #92 which has the iron keel and the shoal trunk which the keel swings into. Are't they all that way? The ID number on my boat is on the transom which indicates model, serial number and date of mfg. Now, my question. I have the cutaway transom on the port side for an outboard. I added a Fulton adjustable motor mount (20hp size) to be able to raise the motor out of the water, adjust motor depth, and move it further from the tiller/rudder location. I have two motors, 6hp Johnson and a 9.9 Honda. This does seem to solve all of these problems, yet I can see the fiberglass transom flex when I raise or lower the motor. I have secured the motor bracket to the transom with a 1/8th" SS plate on the outside, and closed cell plywood with fender washers on the inside. I know the transom on a M-17 is strong, yet I don't wish to crack or break the glass in any way, shape, or form! Any experience or suggestions from our fine list? Thanks gang. Michael "Bones" Bowden M-17 #92 "Bonita" _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AZYacht Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 22 May 1998 02:24:26 EDT Mike, The best solution would probably be to use a smaller and therefor lighter engine. Unless you are bucking BIG current to get to your sailing area I dont think you need that (6 or 9.9) horsepower. I have a 4 hp Yachtwin on my own boat and find it more than adequate. Remember the motor is for manuevering (sp?) not a primary form of motivation unless you have the current or BIG wave scenario. Properly setup, a 4 hp long shaft is more than adequate, ( correct prop for displacement boat, height, angle etc.) and has the added benefit of using a lot less fuel and not dragging down your transom. Just my opinion, hope it helps. Ask the builder or better yet ask Jerry M. what the appropriate hp range is for the 17. Gary Oberbeck azyacht@aol M-17 # 319 Good Sailing! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "richard q. lane" Subject: M_Boats: M 23 for sale in SF Bay area Date: 20 May 1998 23:32:48 -0700 '79 Sadhana is for sale. For details contact Phil Tyre at Yachts 101 in Pete's Harbor Redwood City (650)369-2050. I am in Port Townsend WA until November and Sadhana is in my driveway on her trailer. Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery17 Date: 22 May 1998 11:43:15 EDT Keith Why didn't somebody think of that sooner...LOL..........?????? I'll vote on that.. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 22 May 1998 11:47:30 EDT Michael I also have the cutaway transom and an adjustable mount.....no problems that I can detect with my 6hp Johnson.......... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: steve_whitchurch@mentorg.com (Steve Whitchurch) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery17 Date: 22 May 1998 09:01:30 -0700 Thanks Lenny for the info. This is a big help .... Have a good weekend Regards Steve On May 21, 9:00pm, AirEvacLen wrote: > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery17 > Steve > > You will have a long way to go to beat a Montgomery..........in answer to your > questions.... > > 1. I tow my M-17 with a Toyota 4wd truck and have very little problems even > with a 4 cyclinder.......steep launch ramps require using the transfer case in > low gear but not locking the hubs...... > > 2. Depending on your trailer and whether it has an extender ( mine doesn't ) > ....launching is very easy and requires about 3 feet of water. > > 3. The M-17 fares very well for overnight trips with ample room for ice > chests, duffle bags, and bedding.......for two people it's > adequate........think of it as camping. > > 4. To have the wife and kids on board for a weekend will require some > maneuvering......preferably at a landing where the kids can roam......The > cockpit is large with comfortable high coamings and room to streatch > out.....cockpit cushions are a must. ( closed foam ) > > 5. The M-17 is a very stable boat and " feels " much larger than she really > is.....matter of fact most people who see her on the water think she is a 20 > footer....... > > The M-17 is heavier than the Potter thus accounting for her > stability........there is more room below decks in a Cat 22, and with a " pop > top " you can stand up in the Cat. As for the Compac 19, I cannot > say.......you're getting into a " higher end " market there.......... > > 6. The original M-17's came with up to a 170 genoa......I have a 150 for mine > and find it is adequate.......I also have a 150 drifter which works well in > the lighter desert air......I haven't flown the " chute " yet because I spend > a lot of time single handed and don't find it worth the hassle.......looks > pretty though........ > > With one set of reef points and a storm jib I have been in 25-30 kt winds with > waves breaking over the bow and felt secure.........the boat handles well > under all configurations and all points of sail........ > > The original sails were nylon and I have since replaced the main with a dacron > sail......quite a bit stiffer, but works really well. > > I added a set of cam cleats to my boat.......it came with jam > cleats..........it's a personal thing.....but I find it's faster handling the > sheets > > The boat should come with a topping lift, if not install one and a > halyard..... > > I have seen the boats on the market in good shape from $ 3500 - $ 8500 > depending on year, rigging, equipment, motor, and trailer. > > Unless you find one in Bristol condition you will always have a little work to > do on it.....but then,,,,,,,,there's always something to do on the boat, isn't > there ? > > Smooth Sailin' > > Lenny > >-- End of excerpt from AirEvacLen -- Steve Whitchurch Software Engineer Mentor Graphics, Inc. Wilsonville, OR steve_whitchurch@mentorg.com "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out" "Enjoy Life, Drive a Mercedes-Benz." - Juergen Pallesky Mercedes (Das Beste oder Nichts!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: steve_whitchurch@mentorg.com (Steve Whitchurch) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery17 Date: 22 May 1998 09:03:09 -0700 No Problem, Keith regards Steve On May 21, 7:55pm, Keith Diehl wrote: > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery17 > Steve, don't think this is any kind of a slam against you. It's > not. We all welcome any questions and love to proselytize our > Montgomerys....but perhaps it's time to put together a > Montgomery FAQ?? Would anyone be interested in perusing through > the archives and assembling a FAQ based on the most common > questions that have come up in the last year or so? > > How to contact the builder > Boat comparisons > Sail makers > Newsletter > Tow vehicles > Outboard choices > Etc. > > I'd be glad to host it on my web page and see that it is > distributed to every new list member. > > What do you all think? > > ---------- > > From: Steve Whitchurch > > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery17 > > Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 4:02 PM > > > > Hi; > > > > I just subscribed to this list to get information about the > Montgomery 17. > > > > I'm in the process of picking a boat, and the Montgomery 17 is > on my list. > > If you would not mind answering a couple of question, that > would be great. > > > > >-- End of excerpt from Keith Diehl -- Steve Whitchurch Software Engineer Mentor Graphics, Inc. Wilsonville, OR steve_whitchurch@mentorg.com "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out" "Enjoy Life, Drive a Mercedes-Benz." - Juergen Pallesky Mercedes (Das Beste oder Nichts!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Stuneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 22 May 1998 14:16:56 -0600 Smaller is probably better, we think. Our motor is a 7 hp Merc and its a regular boat-anchor on the back. Can't wait to exchange it. The extendable motor mount is a must, cause otherwise even a long shaft can come out of the water if someone walks towards the bow when the motor is being used. Did all decide that something like a 4 hp Evinrude (or Honda perhaps) was the way to go w/o taking out a second mortgage? Reply to: fritzs@minn.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 22 May 1998 21:26:41 EDT Lenny, How is the motor bracket braced? How are you enjoying your new Montgomery? Are you using after market sails or the originals? Questions, questions. Thanks Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 22 May 1998 21:26:41 EDT Gary, Thanks for the response. As a matter of fact, I have borrowed an antique Johnson 3hp to try with the M17 this weekend (provided I can get it running). It's 1957, twin cylinder, 34 lbs, and came in a mildewing canvas carring case. I know the newer 3hp Johnsons have a transmission (F-N-R), this one does not. The steering head swivels. I'd like a 5hp Honda 4 stroke with an alternator, but the new ones weigh almost as much as my older 9.9hp. Perhaps Jerry will catch this thread and offer his comments on outboard sizes for his fabulous 17 footers. Later, Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Spreader cap Date: 22 May 1998 17:16:14 +0000 Robert Rubey wrote: > > Hi everyone > I just returned from a wonderful sail on Charleston Harbor and as we > were putting Ruby Moon up I noticed that one of the nylon caps that > holds the shroud against the end of the spreader had come loose and was > lost. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, what did you do for > a fix? Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Robert Hi Robert The easiest (and probably best) fix would be to drill a small hole near the end of the spreader and lash the shroud in place with seizing wire. Either that or send me a dollar and your address and I will send you another end. Jerry 3100 Strolling Hills Rd, Cameron Park, CA 95682 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 23 May 1998 00:24:10 -0400 Hi Bones.. let me know how that 3hp works out for you. I'm looking to retire my 8hp 'Rude and put a 3hp Seagull on a mount. FWIW, if manoevering is the only need, a 36 lb thrust electric trolling motor got Stargazer in and out of the slip quite nicely, with 3 adults aboard, while the 'Rude was being rebuilt. A bit more thrust would be nice to have in reserve...like the max that you can get for 12 volts. (52lb??) Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer Subject: M_Boats: Radial tire weight rating Date: 23 May 1998 00:35:53 EDT In a message dated 5/20/98 8:27:05 AM, you wrote: >What is the load carrying rating of your Goodyears? High enough to give >a good weight margin considering weight of trailer; boat and supplies? Connie, I will have to confirm this, but I believe that the Goodyear Tiempos=0A(1= 55SR-12) are rated at 860# per tire at 44psi. The 5.30-12 bias ply tires= I=0Ahad previously were somewhere in the 700's each. They were, I belie= ve, load=0Arange 'C', whereas the originals were 'B'. In any case, I'm p= retty sure the=0Aradials had a higher load rating. I'll confirm all of t= his when I go to the=0Astorage unit this weekend (I still have both sets = of old tires). Anybody want a set or two of bias ply tires--only lightly used? If you o= nly=0Atrail short distances, they would probably be fine. There yours if= you pick=0Athem up!) Scott Grometer, M15#478 "B=E9b=E9 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 22 May 1998 11:52:45 -0400 Joe Kidd Eureka! Joe, you have solved the puzzle. Looking at my "mast support tube" I note that it is cut off, but apparently done by an amateur, since the cut isn't square. Now you have given me the clue as to how to procede. Question: How long are the pintles on your mast support tube? Since they have to be off-set from the edge of the tube to clear the gudgeons, what is this dimension? Tube centerline to pintle centerline? Thanks for the info Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 22 May 1998 11:57:13 -0400 Randy Graves Randy, Thanks for the input on the boom support and how it works Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "norman roe" Subject: M_Boats: Newby Date: 23 May 1998 19:50:05 -0500 Just bought a used M15. Would appreciate being pointed to any info on the boat. New to sailing, live in the Houston/Galveston area. Generally sail solo. Norm Roe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777 Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 24 May 1998 20:51:09 EDT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777 Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 24 May 1998 20:51:50 EDT where did you find your boat...ken in corpus christi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 24 May 1998 20:41:40 -0600 Norm, Welcome to the List! We bought our M-15 several years ago. It was our 3 rd sail boat, we had a one larger and one smaller than the M-15. It is an exceptionally well designed and built boat, relatively easy to sail, does well in a blow, a pleasure to own and sail. We trailer sail mostly. Have been very pleased will the "stock" boat, have only made minor modifications. If there is any thing I can answer regarding the M, please let me know. Randy Idaho Falls, ID M-15 "Dinky Boat" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 24 May 1998 20:58:51 -0400 Harvey: Reur comments on outboards for your M-17: Let me give you my input re: the Seagull. I had a Dyer 7'-9" dinghy for my big boat. As mechanical power I bought a 2 HP Evinrude O/B motor. This was the old model ( about 1976) that had the high tension wire to the spark plug hanging out in the breeze. In flat calm conditions it worked fine, but with two people in the dinghy, and the dinghy transom deep in the water (I sat in the stern and played Captain and Chief Engineer, while my wife sat all the way forward to balance the boat) spray from the burble at the stern would find it's way to the high tension wire, - and salt water and high voltage electricity don't get along. The engine would quit running: the salt water spray provided a ground path for the high voltage to the spark plug, and the plug didn't fire. Kleenex to the fore, I would try and wipe off the high tension wire and get the motor to run again - to no avail. So, it was out with the oars and row 1 mile to the anchored mother ship. So, what to do? (Remember, this was in the days before the outboard manufacturers encased their power units in a plastic housing to prevent this problem). So, my answer was to buy a Seagull, and get the power head up high enough so that the salt water spray couldn't short out the high tension lead - and it offered the added advantage, everything was out in plain sight so if it didn't run, you could do instant trouble shooting. (gasoline flowed through a transparent plastic tube to the carburetor inlet - you visually knew you had fuel: and the spark plug was out in the open and you could check if you had a spark. You also had a starter cord, not a recoil mechanism, which, if it malfunctioned meant that you had to remove X nuts and bolts onb the Evinrude, to remove the engine cover in order to diagnose the problem - just what you need on a dark rainy night, with the wind blowing 15 Kts, and your boat anchored a mile away - upwind, naturally! Plus, the Seagull power head was higher off the water.) I lived happily with my Seagull. You could totally overhaul it in the cockpit (provided you had a few Whitworth wrenches). But, when I got my ComPac 16, I needed a motor, and found a Suzuki 2 HP at a Tag Sale. After getting it running, I fell in love with it. The power head is completely enclosed with a plastic cover: motor accessibility is excellent: reliability is excellent; and it's QUIET when running (which the Seagull is not..... ). I had a 4 HP Johnson with my MICRO, and it too was totally enclosed, and was very quiet while running. So, though I like the Seagull reliability, and the the ability to do your own repair work; the newer engines with totally enclosed power heads, are much quieter when they are running; and that, as far as I'm concerned is a very big plus. The 2 HP Honda I now have with the M-15, is a great design job, in terms of accessibility to the innards without needing tools; and from all the comments I have read on the M ,web site, it is quiet too. So that is probably the preferred way to go. Unless, of course, someone want to give you a Seagull 3 HP for $75.-! Then it's no contest! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Rubey Subject: Re: M_Boats: Spreader cap Date: 25 May 1998 13:46:20 -0400 Jerry Thanks very much for your response...I'd take you up on getting a new end, but I think I found a solution over the weekend. You can buy cuttingboards at Walmart or Kmart made out of a material very similar to the end caps. I cut a hole in the board with a hole saw and fabricated a new end, that looks very similar to the old one and seems to work well. Everyone I take out on our M17 just loves the boat, as do I. I'm teaching my college age son (who just got home for the summer) how to sail, and he loves it too. Thanks again for building such a wonderful boat. Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "norman roe" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 25 May 1998 18:20:07 -0500 I just moved to Texas and saw the boat on the side of the road with a For Sale sign. Guy I bought it from never used it - he bought it used and sold it for a Cape Dory. It's been over ten years since I've been on the water - always admired the workmanship (and looks) of the M: couldn't pass it up. I have a couple of questions: do I need a long shaft for the outboard? Is 2.5 horse enough? The archived discussion of outboards seems more for the 17's. The rudder has a loose rod attached at the top - I assume (after I replace a missing fitting) it is attached to the tiller and raises the rudder. I'm winging it in rigging the boat next weekend. Is there a source for general info (newsletter, handbook, etc)? -----Original Message----- >where did you find your boat...ken in corpus christi > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777 Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 25 May 1998 19:48:35 EDT do not need long shaft...news letter is not worth it in my opinion, use web site and ask 15 owners for help...would you consider sharing what you pain for yours...am trying to negotiate on a 15...please and thank you...ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: M_Boats: Lower Price! M17 Date: 25 May 1998 19:33:21 -0500 (CDT) We've lowered the price on our 91 Montgomery 17, 155%, 110%, 80%; main/reef points, spinnaker & all gear, Johnson LS-OB, KM, DS, Compass, anchor gear, Autohelm/ remote, VHF, shore power equipment, Loran, Harken traveler & cleats, trailer with mast support; keel guides, electric winch on trailer; and a lot more. Excellent cond., $9,950, Sacramento, CA (916) 962-1573 jgtown@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: M_Boats: 3 M17s Date: 25 May 1998 18:25:39 -0700 I drove by 'The Sailing Life' in Portland today, after getting a slip for my boat. There are 3 M17s on the lot. I didn't stop, but if anyone would like, I can either call or pass the phone number along. Hope that all had a great and safe Memorial Day. Steve M15-159 Sojornen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 26 May 1998 14:54:53 EDT <> I would argue that while the long shaft is not required, it may be desirable. I have sailed on 15's with both, and with a short shaft, the motor popped out when one of the two people on board went forward. It also might have a tendancy to pop out in very rough conditions. I opted for a Honda 2HP longshaft. In combination with a teak block mounted on the original mount, it is maybe three to four inches deeper (rather than five inches without the block) than the Honda 2 shortshaft. As for the amount of Horsepower? I would argue that this depends on the conditions you intend to use the boat and your expectations for performance. I have heard (though not from him) that Jerry designed the boat for 2HP, and yet I know there are some who use their 15's in challenging conditions that feel more comfortable with more power. Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "Bebe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com Date: 26 May 1998 14:50:24 -0600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom.Nichols@occ.treas.gov Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 26 May 1998 7:40:49 EDT You do not need a long shaft. I bought a short shaft Johnson 3hp a year ago for my M15. The Johnson is quiet, runs smooth, light weight, has a neutral, but has more power than can be used. I choose the Johnson over the 2hp Honda because with teenage sailers in my family I wanted a neutral. Otherwise the four stroke 2hp Honda is the perfect engine for the M15. ------------- Original Text I just moved to Texas and saw the boat on the side of the road with a For Sale sign. Guy I bought it from never used it - he bought it used and sold it for a Cape Dory. It's been over ten years since I've been on the water - always admired the workmanship (and looks) of the M: couldn't pass it up. I have a couple of questions: do I need a long shaft for the outboard? Is 2.5 horse enough? The archived discussion of outboards seems more for the 17's. The rudder has a loose rod attached at the top - I assume (after I replace a missing fitting) it is attached to the tiller and raises the rudder. I'm winging it in rigging the boat next weekend. Is there a source for general info (newsletter, handbook, etc)? -----Original Message----- >where did you find your boat...ken in corpus christi > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 26 May 1998 17:07:05 -0600 Regarding M-15 Motors: I would like to cast my vote for a Long Shaft motor. We have a 4 hp (Yamaha) long shaft on our M-15. At times when the wx gets rough and the waves build, even the long shaft motor comes out of the water. At all other times a standard shaft would be fine. Randy G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Newby Date: 26 May 1998 19:38:26 -0400 Send fax # or mail address and I will send a copy of the original sales material and an article Doug Kelch M15 "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jgtown@ix.netcom.com (J Townley) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Newby Date: 26 May 1998 19:09:43 -0500 (CDT) You wrote: > >Regarding M-15 Motors: > >I would like to cast my vote for a Long Shaft motor. We have a 4 hp >(Yamaha) long shaft on our M-15. At times when the wx gets rough and the >waves build, even the long shaft motor comes out of the water. At all >other times a standard shaft would be fine. > >Randy G. > > > > I would like to cast my vote for a long shaft. I use a Johnson on an M17; have used short shaft and long shaft. At times, tho not often, the long shaft will come out of the water (in rough weather - when you may need it most). Plus, I have it on a Garelick bracket that lets me lower the motor quite a bit) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Newby Date: 27 May 1998 10:35:02 -0400 >Otherwise the four stroke 2hp Honda is the perfect engine >for the M15 I agree. I have a Honda 5HP standard (short) on my M-15. I knew when I bought it that the 2HP would be plenty of power, but I really wanted F-N-R. The water cooled engine (the 2HP is an air cooled engine with a water cooled exhaust) was a bonus. I also prefer a separate fuel tank, but that is far from being a universally-held opinion. Apart from the weight, the Honda 5HP is also the perfect engine. Unlike the 2-strokes that I have used, part-throttle running for long periods doesn't bother the Honda. Somebody else mentioned the exhaust coming out of the water when they stand on the bow. That also happens on my boat, but only when nobody else is on board, and it hasn't been a significant problem. OTOH: I can't think of anything that would actually make the short shaft better, except for the marginally reduced weight. And, I suppose, the marginally reduced likelihood of hitting the bottom with the propeller. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: New Honda coming Date: 27 May 1998 14:08:26 EDT Tom Nichols Wrote: <> Something I forgot to mention in my previous posting regarding short vs. long shaft motors is that Honda might soon introduce a 2HP (four stroke) with a transmission. It is not clear to me whether this will be a Forward-Neutral, or a Forward-Neutral-Reverse, nor am I certain when it will hit the market. I found out about it from the Honda dealer that I purchased my 2HP long shaft (no transmission) from. I knew that as soon as I bought one this would happen! This should be good news for anyone living in California or other states considering partial or full bans on 2 strokes, or for anyone concerned about the environmental implications of 2 strokes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Proposed CA Ban On 2-Stroke Outboards Date: 27 May 1998 14:14:06 EDT DWF, could you forward this to me as well? Thanks Scott Grometer, M15 #478, Bebe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Brown" Subject: M_Boats: First sail Date: 27 May 1998 20:08:44 -0700 First time I have posted to the list and I recently sailed my M-15 #365 for the first time. Although I am new to sailing, I found the boat easy to sail by myself. I purchased the boat from my dad who originally bought it when he lived in Anchorage, AK. He sailed it primarily on Big Lake along with several other Montgomery boat owners. About four years ago, he moved down to Richland, WA and trailered the boat behind his RV. He didn't have any major problems and the boat only received one small chip from a flying rock. Not bad for being hauled the length of the Alcan. I enjoy the list. There certainly has been some great info for me. I certainly remembered to secure the centerboard up during launch and pulling it out. I have a question, Is there a topping lift for the boom available for the M-15? Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 27 May 1998 23:30:23 -0400 Hi Connie.. I like my 62 lb. 8hp Evinrude that came with Stargazer, but the Seagull represents the ultimate O/B in my mind's eye..as did the WWP-15 (before I learned to sail and got my M-17). I seriously considered the WWP-15 many years ago, when I was first introduced to sailing by a friend in Fla., but my young ladyfriend commanded a higher priority, and with an instant family to boot, the sail boat was relegated to moments of fantasy and "someday" The Seagull was something my uncle brought back from a tour of duty in England. Only saw/heard it cranked up once, but it was enough to impress my teenaged mind. If you can find a $75 Seagull 2 or 3hp , I'll pay double and pay the freight!! Both MO Marine (Wa. state) and Joe(?) Valentino (Maine?) rebuild old Seagulls and give a year warranty. The newer models (QB?) are much quieter, use a 50:1 oil mix and fuel efficient (whatever _that_ means) and there's a line of sport models made in joint venture w/ Italy that has the conventional plastic cover. However, the price of the rebuilds are a tad high right now, altho better by a third then last year. An English friend on Compuserve's Sailing Forum is keeping tabs on old Seagulls, but prices are close to what's over here. How's your M-15 coming along...launch her yet?? Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: still looking for an M15 Date: 28 May 1998 08:20:56 -0700 We saw an '81 M15 over the weekend that the owner would sell but considered it 'a member of the family', so he wasn't at all eager to sell. It's just that he's got a Pontoon at a slip and only used the Montgomery once last year. Anyway, on inspection I found: 1. Substantial erosion on centerboard, looking up at it from underneath the boat on trailer. Substantial delamination in an 8" section of centerboard, so that I could fit my fingertips in the openings. 2. Water in the cabin storage lockers, even though they were covered with cushions. Owner said it was from rain, but all else was dry in there. 3. Fender on trailer loose, needed a weld. Tires low, worn, need replacement. Also Rollers on trailer very worn. 4. Boat and mast, rigging and 2hp Johnson looked fine, a testimony to how well built it must have been. Teak all dry and faded, but that can be restored. 5. Mainsail and jib felt stiff, although main was stored haphazardly in a heap on a cabin bunk. An orange colored jib was in a bag. 6. Hull #138 So what would it take to repair a badly chipped and delaminated centerboard face? How much cost are we talking about here? The owner was asking $3500 for boat, white Trailrite and 2hp Johnson--all but the motor looking like they could alot of TLC and then some for the centerboard. I think I'll wait a bit on this one and keep looking around. So, still looking for an M15 in So California if anyone has any leads. Thanks! -Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: still looking for an M15 Date: 28 May 1998 11:34:26 -0400 >Substantial erosion on centerboard, looking up at it from >underneath the boat on trailer. Substantial delamination in an 8" >section of centerboard, so that I could fit my fingertips in the >openings. Sounds like it needs a new board. If it is delaminating it is probably also expanding, which will jam it in the trunk. I believe that Bob Eeg's price for a new board is about $260. It's pretty easy to fit. Check the archives for my descriptions and warnings. >Water in the cabin storage lockers, even though they were covered >with cushions. Owner said it was from rain, but all else was dry in there If this is the side lockers, it's really easy to check for hull leaks, but I'd be surprised if they're there. On Umiaq (#264) they are finished on the inside. The locker under the V-berth is unfinished on Umiaq, and would be quite difficult to check. Based on my (limited) experience, I'd say it was quite possible that the water was from rain. (If the boat is used on salt water a taste test would be in order). > Fender on trailer loose, needed a weld. Tires low, worn, need >replacement. Also Rollers on trailer very worn Trailer work is pretty easy. I rebuilt mine to new (plus) condition this winter. Rollers are very cheap and easy to replace. Basic structural damage would be bad. I like the Trail Rite because it has no box sections to hide nasties. > Boat and mast, rigging and 2hp Johnson looked fine, a testimony to >how well built it must have been That's the important bit. >Teak all dry and faded, but that can be restored I removed all of it, sanded to the wood and applied Cetol. A year later it still looks perfect. I made a new set of hatch boards because the originals had delaminated. >The owner was asking $3500 for boat, white Trailrite and 2hp Johnson With my (very) limited knowledge I would say that's on the high side, but not completely outrageous. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: still looking for an M15-Fran Date: 28 May 1998 12:15:57 EDT Fran No doubt you could get a better deal by looking around............but nothing says you can't make a " reasonable " offer and drag it away..... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: 100th Subscriber Date: 28 May 1998 21:09:06 -0500 (CDT) Hi all, I just did a quick check with old Major Domo and he says we now have 100 people on the list with "normroe" our 100th. There should be a door prize or something for him! It seems like I've gotten to know a lot of the "old timers" on the list but there are a bunch of new names to learn. That's great. Thanks again, Keith for developing and maintaining the list. Back to the shores of Gitchi Gumi tommorrow night. Fair winds, Randy P. "Montgomery Cubed" (and a few other things) M23 "Early Light" M15 "Oui 1" M7/11 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fritz Stuneck Subject: Re: M_Boats: 100th Subscriber Date: 29 May 1998 05:26:28 -0600 Now if people were listed by area along with the hull number, name of boat, etc! Reply to: fritzs@minn.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: First sail Date: 29 May 1998 19:51:07 EDT Jerry; The topping lift on most boats isn't an option or off the shelf item. They are usually fabricated from measurements. With the mast and boom rigged, measure the leach line of the mainsail. Subtract about a foot(15") and have a vinyl coated wire made to this measurement with small swaged loops in both ends. The top secures to the mast top and the other end gets a small block. The end of the boom gets a fairlead on one side at the outboard end(portside) and a cheekblock and clamcleat mounted on the Starboard side so that a line is secured though the fairlead, up through the block and down through the cheekblock to the clamcleat just forward of the cheek block. This system makes the topping lift adjustable and holds down on weight aloft which is important on small boats. You want it adjustable to get the boom lifted for cockpit seating when not sailing. Write back; Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "norman roe" Subject: Re: M_Boats: 100th Subscriber Date: 29 May 1998 19:42:42 -0500 membership is it's own reward. Thanks to all for advice on the outboard. I bought a used long shaft 2hp Honda: works great with the choke fully engaged, dies immediately when pushed in. I probably have to do something about this. For those interested in pricing: I got the boat, trailer, sails for $2600. The following is the ID Number: MMP151160181. I'm assuming this means my 15 is hull number 116, built 1/81? The hull is yellow: being newly transferred to Texas, I've named it The Yellow Rose. I haven't taken it out yet: looking forward to exploring Galveston Bay later this month. Norm Roe -----Original Message----- >Hi all, > >I just did a quick check with old Major Domo and he says we now have 100 >people on the list with "normroe" our 100th. There should be a door prize >or something for him! > >It seems like I've gotten to know a lot of the "old timers" on the list >but there are a bunch of new names to learn. That's great. Thanks again, >Keith for developing and maintaining the list. > >Back to the shores of Gitchi Gumi tommorrow night. > >Fair winds, > >Randy P. >"Montgomery Cubed" (and a few other things) >M23 "Early Light" >M15 "Oui 1" >M7/11 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: 100th Subscriber Date: 29 May 1998 23:23:48 EDT Norm Sounds like a great name for a great boat........have had my 17 for almost 3 years now and still can't seem to find a name that fits..........some people have all the luck....... Smooth sailin' Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: 100th Subscriber Date: 30 May 1998 11:39:47 -0400 Hi Fritz... What do you want included in the "etc??" Harvey Wilson, Marietta, Georgia M-17 Stargazer hull# 294....sailing mostly on Lake Lanier ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: 100th Subscriber Date: 31 May 1998 01:06:45 EDT Norm wrote: <> Norm, Needless to say, you have a lean mixture with the choke disengaged. Before you adjust the mixture you might want to do the following: 1) Pull the plug and look at it. Is it loaded with carbon or oil fouled? (yes even four strokes can oil foul if there is too much blow-by or worn valve guide). Is the electrode badly worn or pitted? Is it gapped properly? Is it even the proper plug? (many mechanics substitute plugs in the wrong heat range--I believe the original is an NGK) Best to start with a new plug before adjusting or messing with anything else. 2) Depending on where your Honda was purchased or used, it may be jetted for high altitude. This is easy to remedy by getting the proper jet from a Honda dealer. 3) Another possibility, and a likely one if the motor has sat for more than six months without use--especially if the carb was not drained after the last use--is that the carb has varnished, meaning that as the gas in the carb, line,etc. evaporated away, it left behind a nice sludgy varnish on your bore and jet, resulting in a reduced fuel to air ratio (hence the need for choke). Again, not a difficult fix, though it might require the removal and cleaning of the carb (fuel tank, valve, and line might also need cleaning in the most severe of cases). It is good to get in the habit of draining the carb after use if it is going to sit for any period. If yours is anything like mine, there is a little winged drain bolt under the carb (you do not even have to pull the cover). Best to start with new gas before making any other adjustments. 4) Finally, you may have to adjust the mixture. You can so this on all but the newest Hondas. Leave this for last, as you don't want to just mask other problems--and again best with a new properly gapped manufacturer spec. plug, clean carb, and new gas. There are, of course, other possible causes, but these are the most likely (and desirable!). Let me know if you need specs, spark plug #'s, etc. I also have the shop manual for the Honda 2. I think you will love it when you get this sorted out! Scott Grometer, M15 #478, Bebe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Norm: Choke on Honda 2 Date: 31 May 1998 01:07:09 EDT Norm wrote: <> Norm, Needless to say, you have a lean mixture with the choke disengaged. Before you adjust the mixture you might want to do the following: 1) Pull the plug and look at it. Is it loaded with carbon or oil fouled? (yes even four strokes can oil foul if there is too much blow-by or worn valve guide). Is the electrode badly worn or pitted? Is it gapped properly? Is it even the proper plug? (many mechanics substitute plugs in the wrong heat range--I believe the original is an NGK) Best to start with a new plug before adjusting or messing with anything else. 2) Depending on where your Honda was purchased or used, it may be jetted for high altitude. This is easy to remedy by getting the proper jet from a Honda dealer. 3) Another possibility, and a likely one if the motor has sat for more than six months without use--especially if the carb was not drained after the last use--is that the carb has varnished, meaning that as the gas in the carb, line,etc. evaporated away, it left behind a nice sludgy varnish on your bore and jet, resulting in a reduced fuel to air ratio (hence the need for choke). Again, not a difficult fix, though it might require the removal and cleaning of the carb (fuel tank, valve, and line might also need cleaning in the most severe of cases). It is good to get in the habit of draining the carb after use if it is going to sit for any period. If yours is anything like mine, there is a little winged drain bolt under the carb (you do not even have to pull the cover). Best to start with new gas before making any other adjustments. 4) Finally, you may have to adjust the mixture. You can so this on all but the newest Hondas. Leave this for last, as you don't want to just mask other problems--and again best with a new properly gapped manufacturer spec. plug, clean carb, and new gas. There are, of course, other possible causes, but these are the most likely (and desirable!). Let me know if you need specs, spark plug #'s, etc. I also have the shop manual for the Honda 2. I think you will love it when you get this sorted out! Scott Grometer, M15 #478, Bebe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Storm Petrel arrives home Date: 31 May 1998 08:48:53 -0400 Every time I looked in the mirror, I thought "It likes me - its following me home." Fortunately, The trip from Houston to Pittsburgh, nearly 1500 miles, was uneventful. My tow vehicle is a RAV4 5-speed. It's only a 2-litre, and not overpowered, but I can't complain. It runs about 3000 rpm at 60mph in fifth. so I felt comfortable running in "OD." I only had to downshift to fourth a couple of times, in order to keep it around 3k. The weather was hot, but the temp gauge never moved. The trailer has brand new tires (10" bias) and fresh grease - no problem there. One thing I didn't mention in my earlier post (March 9) where I reported finding and buying Storm Petrel, was the price. I got her for $3500, a bargain, in my book. The owners enjoyed her, and knew she was a well built boat. But I think she WAS their frame of reference for sailing, and didn't realize what they had. I'm spending this weekend at home, dog sitting while my wife is out of town, and trying to build a mast crutch system. I want a piece to help with mast raising, and also provide a ridge pole for a tarp. Next weekend we (Storm Petrel and I) are heading up my brother's place in the Finger Lakes of Western NY, where she will probably spend the rest of the summer. Bill Riker, M-15 #284, Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: 100th Subscriber Date: 01 Jun 1998 13:17:25 -0400 Scott; Thanks for the excellent analysis on the Honda problem. I'll have to file that away for reference. The manual is a big help but an analysis like your's is much better. Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Storm Petrel arrives home Date: 01 Jun 1998 13:12:49 -0400 Bill I guess you have the record for the longest trip to retrieve an M-15. My run from Panama City to Glastonbury, CT was only 1400 miles. I have designed and built a mast support system for my boat. It supports the mast while trailering, and also will serve as a support for the winter cover. If you would like a drawing of what I did, give me a call (860) 633-5351, and I can make it and mail it to you. Connie Benneck M-15 #400 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Motor mounting and iron keel Date: 01 Jun 1998 13:43:59 -0400 Harvey, I'm still puttering. Made new companionway hatch boards, and am painting them now. Also refinished the teak main sheet mounting board. Have found a slight leak from the aft end of the centerboard (cockpit drain) pennant hole. There is a bit of a crack there - why, I don't know - but a bit of epoxy will take car of that. Also made new mast supports; redid the pad on the outboard mount to properly fit the Honda; and now am starting to clean teak (which means the other jobs are almost finished). My ComPac seems to be sold, and when that is completed, hopefully this week, I'll give you the whole story. Still like the Seagull for sheer maintainability; ease of trouble shooting; and it runs! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 31 May 1998 14:27:59 -0700 Connie, We just got home from the bay area after taking care of our 3 and 5-year old grandsons for a week. I was goint to measure the pintles on my mast support but I read in one of your later posts that you figured the thing out without my help. At least I helped you understand the riddle. I remember one M-owner writing about adding a second set of gudgeons (offset on the starboard side of the transom centerline) so the mast carrier and rudder could be used at the same time. It allowed him to raise and lower the mast while on the water. Have you named your boat yet? Joe Kidd ---------- > From: Conbert H Benneck > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: > Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 8:52 AM > > Joe Kidd > > Eureka! Joe, you have solved the puzzle. Looking at my "mast support > tube" I note that it is cut off, but apparently done by an amateur, since > the cut isn't square. Now you have given me the clue as to how to > procede. > Question: How long are the pintles on your mast support tube? Since > they have to be off-set from the edge of the tube to clear the gudgeons, > what is this dimension? > Tube centerline to pintle centerline? > > Thanks for the info > Connie > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]