From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Radial Tires Date: 01 Aug 1998 22:14:48 -0700 We had a delightful sail in Poco A Poco on Lake Yosemite Thursday evening. After trailering only 50 miles, however, the trailer tires felt really hot to the touch and I recalled the recent discussion on our M-net about radial tires riding smoother, running cooler and being more reliable. Although my trailer tires were practically brand new, I decided that new radial tires might be good insurance (and assurance) . Since my wife's car was due new tires, I took the trailer wheels/tires along as well. Her Subaru Legacy got new Michelin X's. It took some shopping (no one stocked the size I needed at a reasonable price) and I eventually bought a pair of Sears Guardian 60 R145/80x12's for the trailer. The steel-belted radials cost only $11.99 each, have a 30,000 mile warranty and appear to be far superior to the dinky original 4.80 x 12 tires they replaced. They have a more than adequate 860 pound (each) load capacity and fit the trailer nicely, with plenty of frame and fender clearance. A question to those who have made the same conversion: What air pressure do you use in your radial tires? For the third time, I damaged the kick-up rudder while we were launching. It dropped down and dinged the end I had just repaired and re-finished. Maybe next time I should laminate a kevlar skid pad on the bottom. I have adjusted the bungees to no avail. I'm wondering if drilling a small hole in the trailing edge and using some kind of rod support while launching/retrieving the boat might be a good idea. Any suggestions? Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: Radial Tires Date: 02 Aug 1998 09:10:42 +0000 Joe, I never launch with the rudder mounted. The one time I tried to it dropped and hit the ramp; it seems like really bad things could happen it it should really catch on the ramp. I also have had it pop out of the gudgeons from wave action when the rudder was in the fully raised position, so if you launch with it raised, it might pop out and cause even more problems. My set procedure is to launch without the rudder and install it at the dock. You have to wressle with it to clear the boom and assorted lines, but it beats doing major repairs on the rudder or transom or diving to recover a lost rudder. Bob ---------- > From: "Joe Kidd" > To: > Subject: M_Boats: Radial Tires > Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:14:48 -0700 > >We had a delightful sail in Poco A Poco on Lake Yosemite Thursday evening. > >After trailering only 50 miles, however, the trailer tires felt really hot >to the >touch and I recalled the recent discussion on our M-net about radial tires >riding smoother, running cooler and being more reliable. Although my >trailer >tires were practically brand new, I decided that new radial tires might be >good insurance (and assurance) . > >Since my wife's car was due new tires, I took the trailer wheels/tires >along as well. Her Subaru Legacy got new Michelin X's. It took some >shopping (no one stocked the size I needed at a reasonable price) and I >eventually bought a pair of Sears Guardian 60 R145/80x12's for the trailer. > >The steel-belted radials cost only $11.99 each, have a 30,000 mile >warranty and appear to be far superior to the dinky original 4.80 x 12 >tires >they replaced. They have a more than adequate 860 pound (each) load >capacity and fit the trailer nicely, with plenty of frame and fender >clearance. > >A question to those who have made the same conversion: What air pressure >do you use in your radial tires? > >For the third time, I damaged the kick-up rudder while we were launching. >It dropped down and dinged the end I had just repaired and re-finished. >Maybe next time I should laminate a kevlar skid pad on the bottom. I have >adjusted the bungees to no avail. I'm wondering if drilling a small hole >in the >trailing edge and using some kind of rod support while launching/retrieving >the >boat might be a good idea. Any suggestions? > >Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Radial Tires Date: 02 Aug 1998 13:29:42 EDT Joe; I too went radials several years ago and have never regretted it. The boat rides smoother and I've had less tire problems. My boat weighs 4000 lbs and I have a single axle trailer so I run heavy duty truck radials(15"). The pressure limit is 41lbs which I run when measured cold. If you under-inflate tires, they run hot due to internal friction of the belts moving. They also wear out on the outer edges. Good luck; Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Radial Tires Date: 02 Aug 1998 10:44:30 -0700 Joe, My radials are stamped "44psi". Sounds like you got an even better deal than I. Paid $19 each for mine and thought I was getting away with something. My rudder has never dropped down unintentionally. Perhaps lady luck has been on my side. Had a good day's sailing last Thursday at Millerton. Fairly constant winds, from all points of the compass. Sailed for about 3 hours, anchored in a nice cove, had lunch, a swim, a nap and then another 3 hours or so of sailing. Temperature was in the 80's. Ye gads, this retirement is rough. Dan -----Original Message----- >We had a delightful sail in Poco A Poco on Lake Yosemite Thursday evening. > >After trailering only 50 miles, however, the trailer tires felt really hot >to the >touch and I recalled the recent discussion on our M-net about radial tires >riding smoother, running cooler and being more reliable. Although my >trailer >tires were practically brand new, I decided that new radial tires might be >good insurance (and assurance) . > >Since my wife's car was due new tires, I took the trailer wheels/tires >along as well. Her Subaru Legacy got new Michelin X's. It took some >shopping (no one stocked the size I needed at a reasonable price) and I >eventually bought a pair of Sears Guardian 60 R145/80x12's for the trailer. > >The steel-belted radials cost only $11.99 each, have a 30,000 mile >warranty and appear to be far superior to the dinky original 4.80 x 12 >tires >they replaced. They have a more than adequate 860 pound (each) load >capacity and fit the trailer nicely, with plenty of frame and fender >clearance. > >A question to those who have made the same conversion: What air pressure >do you use in your radial tires? > >For the third time, I damaged the kick-up rudder while we were launching. >It dropped down and dinged the end I had just repaired and re-finished. >Maybe next time I should laminate a kevlar skid pad on the bottom. I have >adjusted the bungees to no avail. I'm wondering if drilling a small hole >in the >trailing edge and using some kind of rod support while launching/retrieving >the >boat might be a good idea. Any suggestions? > >Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Sailing the Sierra Foothills Date: 02 Aug 1998 14:25:29 -0700 Dan, We aren't that many miles apart. We should arrange a sailing get-to-gather some day, providing we can arrange some cooler weather like we had last Thursday. Lately, I have been avoiding anything that exposed me to the extreme heat, which has cut into our sailing time considerably. Rigging a sailboat in 100+ degree temperatures on a hot black parking lot is not my idea of fun. And, YES, retirement is wonderful! Joe Kidd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Radial Tires Date: 02 Aug 1998 14:48:29 -0700 Sandy, I started with 30 psi (which is about what a small car would run) and trailed the boat around on some of our rough, potholed mountain roads. Back in my driveway, I would fire up the old air compresser and gradually increase the pressure. The process was repeated until everything felt about right at 36 psi. If the lower pressure gives the boat an easier ride, I'm certain the load-carrying capacities will be within reason. If the trailer sways at higher speeds or the tires tend to run hot, I'll pump up the pressure until I get it right. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing the Sierra Foothills Date: 02 Aug 1998 15:54:03 -0700 Joe, Yep, we tend to stay out of the heat also. I'd like to get together sometime. Have never seen a M15 under sail, except from the cockpit of course. Do you ever trailer over to the coast? How about a launch at Morro Bay, sail to San Simeon for the night??? Dan -----Original Message----- >Dan, > >We aren't that many miles apart. We should arrange a sailing get-to-gather >some day, providing we can arrange some cooler weather like we had last >Thursday. Lately, I have been avoiding anything that exposed me to the >extreme heat, which has cut into our sailing time considerably. Rigging a >sailboat in 100+ degree temperatures on a hot black parking lot is not my >idea of fun. > >And, YES, retirement is wonderful! > >Joe Kidd > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sailing the Sierra Foothills Date: 03 Aug 1998 19:17:42 -0400 Dan / Joe The only trouble with retirement is that I find I am working twice as hard as I did when I was gainfully employed, but without the paycheck at the end of the month! But it sure is fun solving problems for the children's businesses: being the Facilities Chairman for our singing society (430 members): and of course, Messing About In Boats! However now my working days - 7 days a week - are 10 hours long! But now we are off to play with the new toy, the M-15, and after last week's experience - gusting to about 25 knots - it's a great vessel: just get rid of the damn jam cleats! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Radial Tires Date: 03 Aug 1998 19:08:34 -0400 Dan, You really know how to rub it in. Three hour sail: anchored and snoozed; plus another three hours of sailing. And as you said, under ideal conditions! Yes, life is rough when you are retired. We're off to Lake Champlain tomorrow. Today has been very active, to say the least: - painted the trailer frame second time removed hinges from sail lockers and rounded off all the edges installed a regular cleat for the jib sheet (my wife has been pulling it out of the jam cleat when coming about...) installed cam cleats for the jib sheets made a spacer out of plastic for the rudder so that there is no slop made a masthead fitting for the topping lift block put fitting in tiller for a Forespar tiller extension hauled all the gear out of the cellar in preparation for loading ....and so we will be off for about 10 days sailing on Lake Champlain, and boozing, and snoozing, and yes, also cruising, with M-15 gradually reaching the level I desire. On Joe's tire question: I got new Goodyear 155 SR 12s. Paid about $20.- each for them, and I'll let you know how they work out when I get back from Champlain. Connie & Katrina M-15 # 400 LEPPO _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ian T. Larson" Subject: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 03 Aug 1998 14:56:30 -0500 Hello Montgomery owners- I am the owner of a Montgomery 15 (#300), which I purchased last summer. I sail it on the St. Criox river, or lake Pepin, both on the Minnesota-Wisconsin border. Last August I also sailed the Apostle islands on lake Superior for several days. Hopefully I will get up there again soon. I have been reading the list for a while, and never quite got around to introducing myself. Anyway, since it's to rainy to sail today, I thought it would be a good time to sit down and write an e-mail to the group. In the papers that came with the boat is an accessory price list. One of the accessories listed is a genoa for the M-15. If there is anyone out there that has the genoa, I would appreciate being told how the boat sails with it. The 15 sails fairly well with the working jib in light airs, but in Minnesota, the better a boat sails in light air, the more use you get out of it. If the genoa is a worthwhile addition, I will probably have one made this winter. Ian Larson Minneapolis, MN. M-15 #300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roy Cameron Sarver Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 03 Aug 1998 16:08:05 -0500 Ian T. Larson wrote: > > Hello Montgomery owners- > > I am the owner of a Montgomery 15 (#300), which I purchased last > summer. I sail it > on the St. Criox river, or lake Pepin, both on the Minnesota-Wisconsin > border. Last > August I also sailed the Apostle islands on lake Superior for several > days. Hopefully I > will get up there again soon. > I have been reading the list for a while, and never quite got around > to introducing > myself. Anyway, since it's to rainy to sail today, I thought it would > be a good time to sit > down and write an e-mail to the group. > In the papers that came with the boat is an accessory price list. > One of the accessories listed is a genoa for the M-15. If there is > anyone out there that has the genoa, I would > appreciate being told how the boat sails with it. The 15 sails fairly > well with the working jib in light airs, but in Minnesota, the better a > boat sails in light air, the more use you get out of it. If the genoa > is a worthwhile addition, I will probably have one made this winter. > > Ian Larson > Minneapolis, MN. > M-15 #300 Ian, At the Minneapolis Boat Show I found several sail makers with the M-15 specifications in their data bases. I will look up the data and send you the specs and then you could have a genoa made for the boat. Look in the Yellow Pages under sailmakers. ( Bowers seemed to be the most friendly, at least in my opinion ). I agree that the boat could use a genoa and have been considering a 150%, but I have not gotten it yet. Roy Sarver St. Paul, MN M-15 #305 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 03 Aug 1998 16:40:34 -0700 Roy, I also would appreciate any information on genoas for the M15 Dan M15 #384 -----Original Message----- >Ian T. Larson wrote: >> >> Hello Montgomery owners- >> >> I am the owner of a Montgomery 15 (#300), which I purchased last >> summer. I sail it >> on the St. Criox river, or lake Pepin, both on the Minnesota-Wisconsin >> border. Last >> August I also sailed the Apostle islands on lake Superior for several >> days. Hopefully I >> will get up there again soon. >> I have been reading the list for a while, and never quite got around >> to introducing >> myself. Anyway, since it's to rainy to sail today, I thought it would >> be a good time to sit >> down and write an e-mail to the group. >> In the papers that came with the boat is an accessory price list. >> One of the accessories listed is a genoa for the M-15. If there is >> anyone out there that has the genoa, I would >> appreciate being told how the boat sails with it. The 15 sails fairly >> well with the working jib in light airs, but in Minnesota, the better a >> boat sails in light air, the more use you get out of it. If the genoa >> is a worthwhile addition, I will probably have one made this winter. >> >> Ian Larson >> Minneapolis, MN. >> M-15 #300 > >Ian, > >At the Minneapolis Boat Show I found several sail makers with the M-15 >specifications in their data bases. I will look up the data and send >you the specs and then you could have a genoa made for the boat. Look >in the Yellow Pages under sailmakers. ( Bowers seemed to be the most >friendly, at least in my opinion ). I agree that the boat could use a >genoa and have been considering a 150%, but I have not gotten it yet. > >Roy Sarver >St. Paul, MN >M-15 #305 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 03 Aug 1998 23:18:55 EDT Ian, Welcome to the list. I have an M17 and reside in Minneapolis as well. My local favorite sailing lake is Waconia. Last time I was sailing there I was joined by 4 other Montgomery lapstrake beauties. Hope to meet sometime. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 03 Aug 1998 19:52:30 +0000 I would definately go to a 170 for a larger headsail; a 150 is not much larger than the stock working jib, which is a 133. Sheet it on the toe rail by bolting on about 3' of 1" T track. We used Schaefer, and ran it back all the way so a car and block for a spinnaker (a terrific light air addition) could be on the same track. Jerry Dan Diehlman wrote: > > Roy, > I also would appreciate any information on genoas for the M15 > Dan M15 #384 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy Cameron Sarver > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:06 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. > > >Ian T. Larson wrote: > >> > >> Hello Montgomery owners- > >> > >> I am the owner of a Montgomery 15 (#300), which I purchased last > >> summer. I sail it > >> on the St. Criox river, or lake Pepin, both on the Minnesota-Wisconsin > >> border. Last > >> August I also sailed the Apostle islands on lake Superior for several > >> days. Hopefully I > >> will get up there again soon. > >> I have been reading the list for a while, and never quite got around > >> to introducing > >> myself. Anyway, since it's to rainy to sail today, I thought it would > >> be a good time to sit > >> down and write an e-mail to the group. > >> In the papers that came with the boat is an accessory price list. > >> One of the accessories listed is a genoa for the M-15. If there is > >> anyone out there that has the genoa, I would > >> appreciate being told how the boat sails with it. The 15 sails fairly > >> well with the working jib in light airs, but in Minnesota, the better a > >> boat sails in light air, the more use you get out of it. If the genoa > >> is a worthwhile addition, I will probably have one made this winter. > >> > >> Ian Larson > >> Minneapolis, MN. > >> M-15 #300 > > > >Ian, > > > >At the Minneapolis Boat Show I found several sail makers with the M-15 > >specifications in their data bases. I will look up the data and send > >you the specs and then you could have a genoa made for the boat. Look > >in the Yellow Pages under sailmakers. ( Bowers seemed to be the most > >friendly, at least in my opinion ). I agree that the boat could use a > >genoa and have been considering a 150%, but I have not gotten it yet. > > > >Roy Sarver > >St. Paul, MN > >M-15 #305 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 03 Aug 1998 22:56:34 -0700 Jerry, Just out of curiosity... What is the standard working jib on a Montgomery 15? 100%? 110%? 120%? Joe Kidd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ian T. Larson" Subject: M_Boats: M-15 genoa Date: 04 Aug 1998 09:58:27 -0500 Thanks to everyone for their advice regarding the genoa for the M-15. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the working jib is a 130%, but can't seem to find this information in my file for the boat. The acessories price list I have describes the genoa as a 180%, but doesn't have a listing for the working jib which was standard equipment. Ian Larson M-15 #300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shelley Daringer" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 04 Aug 1998 15:58:48 -0500 Ian, Hi. I live in the Eau Claire area, and wanted to introduce myself...maybe we'll meet on the St. Croix one of these days. Haven't been over there yet, but am planning on it before summer's end. Just bought a M17 this summer and am having a blast. We keep it in Menomonie for now, because the slip is pretty cheap. We also went to Lake Pepin in June...a very informative weekend, since we are both new to sailing. Where on the St. Croix do you go? It doesn't seem to be very big, but I guess it's enough. And we are planning on going back to Lake Pepin again, possibly next month??? Hope to see you, Shelley -----Original Message----- >Hello Montgomery owners- > > I am the owner of a Montgomery 15 (#300), which I purchased last >summer. I sail it >on the St. Criox river, or lake Pepin, both on the Minnesota-Wisconsin >border. Last >August I also sailed the Apostle islands on lake Superior for several >days. Hopefully I >will get up there again soon. > I have been reading the list for a while, and never quite got around >to introducing >myself. Anyway, since it's to rainy to sail today, I thought it would >be a good time to sit >down and write an e-mail to the group. > In the papers that came with the boat is an accessory price list. >One of the accessories listed is a genoa for the M-15. If there is >anyone out there that has the genoa, I would >appreciate being told how the boat sails with it. The 15 sails fairly >well with the working jib in light airs, but in Minnesota, the better a >boat sails in light air, the more use you get out of it. If the genoa >is a worthwhile addition, I will probably have one made this winter. > > Ian Larson > Minneapolis, MN. > M-15 #300 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 04 Aug 1998 14:48:16 +0000 Joe Kidd wrote: > > Jerry, > > Just out of curiosity... What is the standard working jib on a Montgomery > 15? 100%? 110%? 120%? > > Joe Kidd Hi Joe 133%; not by intent, but I simply drew it to the proportions (in respect to the main) that I wanted. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Kick up rudder Date: 04 Aug 1998 21:30:04 -0400 In response to Joe Kidd's comments about launching or leaving the M15 rudder in place while moving the boat around. Abby Gura, M15 #466 has removed the rod mechanism and replaced it with a= manual adjustment only. The principle is to run a line from a cleat on t= he face of the rudder blade, through a small block on the bottom of the till= er (directly above the cleat on the rudder), to a jam cleat farther out on t= he tiller. With the line free of the jam cleat the rudder blade will float up. Pull on the line to lower the blade and cleat it off at the desired depth. = I am thinking of the same arrangement but leaving the kick-up mechanism i= n = place. This would provide a stop mechanism if the line were cleated at a= position where the rudder blade stopped rising at a point equal to the depth of the fixed portion of the keel. It seems as though I am always sailing in "skinny water" and trying to sa= il while holding the rudder partially submerged is at best tricky. I have h= ad the rudder come completly free of the stern on several occasions and this= does lead to lots of excitement in shallow water while avoiding obstructions. I have taken to sliding a 1/4 inch piece of wood behind th= e spring clip to prevent the rudder from riding up. Part of my motivation for buying an M15 was to not wait until I formally retired and bought a crusing boat. I decided to buy small now and start enjoying my retirement while I still work. I took a retirement day on Monday and had a great two day sail. My wife an daughter went to MA for a week, the weather forcast was perfec= t, 10-15 kts, low humidity, high temps in the mid 80's and sunny skies. So = I packed up the boat, the two dogs and left Sunday AM for the lower Chesape= ak just north of the Rappahanak River. The destination was the Anti-poision= creek, which was where the local indians saved John Smith from a sting ra= y wound. The Sunday conditions were even better than forcast in that the winds wer= e 18 - 22 kts from the NE. As soon as I cleared the point coming out of Indian Creek the waves had about a 20 mile fetch and were running 3 - 4 f= t. One of my dogs is a 1 yr old Standard Schnauzer who is still a bit clums= y and this was the first time she was on the boat. Of course we had a dog overboard as she got a little too far outboard when a wave kicked the boa= t out from under her. I now know why you are supposed to practice dog overboard drills. I am certainly glad I had put a doggy life jacket on her. She was easy to see and there was a nice convienient handle to haul= her in with. I had raked the mast farther aft before this trip and couldn't detect any= substantive difference from the earlier trips so I guess I will have to study it further. WeI spent Sunday in Dymer creek gunkholing a number of coves and anchored= in a very protected spot while the winds blew 18 - 20 all night. When we left Dymer creek on Monday morning we were again beating into som= e very steep seas (the tide was against the wind) and I had made the class= ic mistake. It was so protected in the cove that I didn't put on the storm jib and the waves were so steep that I didn't want to change head sails b= ut merely reefed the main 1 reef. When we turned parallel to the waves we were cruising on a beam reach at 5.7 kts both horizontal and vertical. A= very good ride with an occasional splash of a few gallons of sea water. = The dog never even left the boat. By 4 pm both the wind and the waves ha= d died down to about 12 kts and 2 - 3 ft waves. All in all it was a great retirement day!! = Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: M-15 genoa Date: 04 Aug 1998 23:39:57 -0400 HI Ian.. Welcome to the group!! The working jib on my M-17 is a 100%. I also have a 150% and a 170%. I haven't tried the 170% yet, but the 150 is a -definite_ improvement over the working jib in the light summery airs on Lake Lanier. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 04 Aug 1998 23:49:17 EDT Shelley, Hope to see you on the St.Croix as well. I'm planning a fall color trip where I will launch at Hudson, WI. and follow the St.Croix to Prescott, meet with the Mississippi and "Huck Finn" it down to Pepin for a long weekend sail. Hope to see you on the water sometime. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Subject: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 05 Aug 1998 07:34:25 -0700 I'm ready to upgrade my boarding ladder situation. I started with none, and was truly shocked at how hard it was to get back into the boat after taking a dip on a hot, windless morning. Next I made my own rope ladder - just some tied in loops hanging off of a mooring cleat. Not much easier than nothing. Next I purchased a swim stirrup from West Marine - a plastic step on the end of a loop of line, also hung off the cleat. A little better, but not much. Aluminum or stainless steel seems to be in my future. The question is: do I want a permanent fixture or a hang-off-the-transom stow away? I have looked through my West Marine catalog. I have searched the list archieves. I've gone through all of my back issues of MON. In the Fall 96 MON, David Shough described his permanent ladder installation using "T" nuts. In Feb 97, Rich posted that he had used David's instructions and done this as well. A sketch or two might help me better understand this procedure - right now it's a little fuzzy for me. Part of me likes a permanent installation - always in place in case of "man overboard" - no need to find a place to stow it. Part of me doesn't want to drill holes and cover up my boat's name on the transom. The stirrup would get me back aboard in an emergency, and the ladder could be hung just for swimming. I welcome all responses. Anyone using the Garelick gunwale mount ladder? Does it hang straight enough on the transom? 7" or 11" hook width? Any tips on other stowables? Any tips on permanent mounts? Thanks in advance. -- townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 05 Aug 1998 22:12:13 -0400 I permanenttly mounted the two step aluminum ladder from West Marine. I used the "T" nuts and the installation method you referenced with good success. I opted for the permanent mount primarily for safety reasons. I almost always sail alone and love the strong wind and waves. I will sail= both early and late in the season when hypothermia is a real threat and there are few other boats around. I have also used sheet to tiller steeri= ng frequently. I used a rope ladder with plastic steps for a season and always kept it tied to a cleat and ready to deploy. As you discovered it= is difficult to use. Try it fully dressed for foul weather, in 4 - 5 ft seas, while the boat is sailing itself at 3 kts, and it is nearly impossible. If you are going to fall overboard Murphy's law will be involved and you will not have kept the portable aluminum ladder where yo= u can reach it from the water and if you use the rope ladder it will be fouled on something you cannot see from the water. The "T" nut is also known as a "nut sert" in some circles. It looks like a tube with the inside threaded like a nut. One end of the tu= be has what looks like a flat washer welded to it. The flat washer looks li= ke is cut 1/2 through in three places with the cut part bent down parallel t= o the tube. These bent down pieces form sharp teeth. A hole is drilled through the backing plate the size of the T nut tube. T= he T nut are then inserted in the hole and when a bolt is run into the T nu= t and tightend the teeth bite into the wood and act like a lock washer and = a binding agent so that the T nuts do not fall out. If you recall from the previous instructions you can use wire and= string to fish the backing plate through the small spaces to the inside o= f the transom. I have head at least two stories of small kids or adults becoming stuck inside the confined spaces of small boats trying to do thi= s by hand. The suggested method is as follows: Make a single backing plate large enough for all of the holes required + 1" or more of extra space all around. Make sure the backing plate will fit inside the transom. Pre drill all the required holes in t= he backing plate and install the T nuts making sure the ladder nicely mounts= to the plate. (Double check this and translate nicely to "precisely centered". It's mentally much nicer to drill extra holes or wider holes = in a backing plate than in the transom.) Use the backing plate as a templat= e for the holes in the transom. Permanently mark the orientation of the backing plate to the ladder mounts so that you don't reverse them, they holes are never quite symetric. Drill the holes in the transom. Take a long piece of semi stiff wire, ( used door bell wire) and fish the wire through a top hole in the transom until you can reach it inside the boat. Tie strong string= to the wire and pull the string back through the transom and tie it off s= o it won't slip back inside the boat. Inside the boat, take the other end = of the string though the matching hole in the backing plate. ( eventually th= e string will get cut off and a small piece will drop into the inaccessable= part of the boat. If you don't want this to happen you can run the string= through the hole in the backing plate, tie the string to something, like = a washer, as a stopper and keep the string long enough to retrieve after i= t is cut). Repeat this process with the other top hole in the transom and the corresponding hole in the backing plate. You can now pull on the strings from outside the transom and "walk the backing plate into positio= n. Attach the lower bolts, pull out or cut the string and attach the lower bolts. Thanks, Doug = "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 07 Aug 1998 12:19:33 EDT Roy & Ian If you haven't sailed with a " Genny " you just haven't sailed......in my humble opinion. Have sailed my M-17 in Arizona light air with 150 Genoa and 150 reacher for the last 3 years and wouldn't have it any other way........... You should see what you are missing. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 07 Aug 1998 12:23:14 EDT Bones Is # 92 a combo-keel or cast iron swing keel ? Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 07 Aug 1998 19:29:38 EDT Lenny; Did you buy that 23 in Tucson? Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "greg" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 07 Aug 1998 16:34:50 -0700 How much wind would you sail that genny in? -----Original Message----- >Roy & Ian > >If you haven't sailed with a " Genny " you just haven't sailed......in my >humble opinion. Have sailed my M-17 in Arizona light air with 150 Genoa and >150 reacher for the last 3 years and wouldn't have it any other way........... >You should see what you are missing. > >Lenny > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 07 Aug 1998 23:58:10 EDT Hi Lenny, My M17 #92 has a iron swing keel which winches into the shoal draft centerboard trunk. Thus, it has a shoal keel, not the flat bottom keel like the early M17s. Did I explain that correctly? Michael "Bones" Bowden _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Fell Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 05 Aug 1998 17:56:35 -0700 Stanley Townsend wrote: > > I'm ready to upgrade my boarding ladder situation. I went with the non-attached ladder. It works well enough, but probably not as strong or as easy to use as a permenent mounted one. But like you I didn't want to drill holes unless it is necessary. John M-15 #126 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 10 Aug 1998 21:29:22 -0500 (CDT) Hi Shelley, Welcome to the list. You must have purchased Randy Somerfeld's "No Worries." We are in Altoona and are cutting our fleet of M's from 3 to two. Our M23 (looks like a big version of your boat - same color and all) is heading down the road to Durango, CO on Friday (thanks to a referal by Bob Eeg!). We still have our M15 (and will have access to the garage after Friday so we can take her for a much needed sail - maybe Sunday). The Lake Wissota Yacht Club's Regatta is this Saturday ($15 includes a chicken diner for you and crew - I think they're asking for a dish to pass) but we won't be available. Let's hope for rain and they postpone it to Sunday. I'm in the mood for passing up some bigger boats. Maybe we should have a second M_Boat gathering on Lake Pepin this year - although I never sailed the St. Croix an October sail might be nice (after the stop and go lights aren't needed on the river). Hope to see you on the water sometime soon. Randy Palmer Montgomery Cubed (for only a few more days - ahem. Sad, but true.) M23, M15, M7/11 On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Shelley Daringer wrote: > Ian, > Hi. I live in the Eau Claire area, and wanted to introduce > myself...maybe we'll meet on the St. Croix one of these days. Haven't been > over there yet, but am planning on it before summer's end. Just bought a > M17 this summer and am having a blast. We keep it in Menomonie for now, > because the slip is pretty cheap. We also went to Lake Pepin in June...a > very informative weekend, since we are both new to sailing. Where on the > St. Croix do you go? It doesn't seem to be very big, but I guess it's > enough. > And we are planning on going back to Lake Pepin again, possibly next > month??? > Hope to see you, > Shelley > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian T. Larson > To: Montgomery Owners Mailing List > Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:56 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. > > > >Hello Montgomery owners- > > > > I am the owner of a Montgomery 15 (#300), which I purchased last > >summer. I sail it > >on the St. Criox river, or lake Pepin, both on the Minnesota-Wisconsin > >border. Last > >August I also sailed the Apostle islands on lake Superior for several > >days. Hopefully I > >will get up there again soon. > > I have been reading the list for a while, and never quite got around > >to introducing > >myself. Anyway, since it's to rainy to sail today, I thought it would > >be a good time to sit > >down and write an e-mail to the group. > > In the papers that came with the boat is an accessory price list. > >One of the accessories listed is a genoa for the M-15. If there is > >anyone out there that has the genoa, I would > >appreciate being told how the boat sails with it. The 15 sails fairly > >well with the working jib in light airs, but in Minnesota, the better a > >boat sails in light air, the more use you get out of it. If the genoa > >is a worthwhile addition, I will probably have one made this winter. > > > > Ian Larson > > Minneapolis, MN. > > M-15 #300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 10 Aug 1998 21:47:16 -0500 (CDT) Stanley, I bought a Gareloc two-step ladder for about $50. The problem is with any stock item built for a boat is it didn't quite fit. As I recall it was 14" wide and about as tall. Well, after about six month's worth of hesitation and deciding there was nothing else on the market that looked right, I had a mechanic friend cut 3" out of the center of the two rungs and weld the pieces together. Chop saws are fun. It looks great and works great. Maybe if enough M15 owners hound Railmakers (makers of the M15's bowpulpits and some nice swimladders used by Catalina) or Bob Eeg makes them standard equipment on the new M15's a nice one will be available. I'll be glad to give more details. Randy P. On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Stanley Townsend wrote: > I'm ready to upgrade my boarding ladder situation. I started with none, > and was truly shocked at how hard it was to get back into the boat after > taking a dip on a hot, windless morning. Next I made my own rope ladder > - just some tied in loops hanging off of a mooring cleat. Not much > easier than nothing. Next I purchased a swim stirrup from West Marine - > a plastic step on the end of a loop of line, also hung off the cleat. A > little better, but not much. > > Aluminum or stainless steel seems to be in my future. The question is: > do I want a permanent fixture or a hang-off-the-transom stow away? I > have looked through my West Marine catalog. I have searched the list > archieves. I've gone through all of my back issues of MON. In the Fall > 96 MON, David Shough described his permanent ladder installation using > "T" nuts. In Feb 97, Rich posted that he had used David's instructions > and done this as well. A sketch or two might help me better understand > this procedure - right now it's a little fuzzy for me. > > Part of me likes a permanent installation - always in place in case of > "man overboard" - no need to find a place to stow it. Part of me > doesn't want to drill holes and cover up my boat's name on the transom. > The stirrup would get me back aboard in an emergency, and the ladder > could be hung just for swimming. > > I welcome all responses. Anyone using the Garelick gunwale mount > ladder? Does it hang straight enough on the transom? 7" or 11" hook > width? Any tips on other stowables? Any tips on permanent mounts? > Thanks in advance. > > -- > townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ian T. Larson" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 10 Aug 1998 21:50:08 -0500 Shelley : I usualy launch at the Hudson city ramp, which allows me to sail south into the "big lake", or if the train bridge is open, north towards Stillwater. The saint Criox is small compared with Lake Peppin, but is plenty big for a daysail, or an overnight down to Afton state park. I recomend a fall or weekday trip there though, as the powerboat trafic can get heavy (and fast) on summer weekends. If I have a free day on a weekend, I trailer down to Peppin for the less crowded waters. Michael: If you are planning to go down the Mississippi be sure your outboard is reliable, as the current is strong, and large tow-boats are common. A VHF also would be a good idea- the tow boats always moniter 16. Though I have only owned my own boat for about a year, I have helped take other (non- trailerable) boats down over the years. Trailering is definitly the way to go for the upstream leg! Hope to see you both out on the lakes soon, Ian Larson, M-15 #300 Shelley Daringer wrote: > Ian, > Hi. I live in the Eau Claire area, and wanted to introduce > myself...maybe we'll meet on the St. Croix one of these days. Haven't been > over there yet, but am planning on it before summer's end. Just bought a > M17 this summer and am having a blast. We keep it in Menomonie for now, > because the slip is pretty cheap. We also went to Lake Pepin in June...a > very informative weekend, since we are both new to sailing. Where on the > St. Croix do you go? It doesn't seem to be very big, but I guess it's > enough. > And we are planning on going back to Lake Pepin again, possibly next > month??? > Hope to see you, > Shelley > > > Michael Bowden wrote: > Shelley, > > Hope to see you on the St.Croix as well. I'm planning a fall color trip > where I will launch at Hudson, WI. and follow the St.Croix to Prescott, > meet with the Mississippi and "Huck Finn" it down to Pepin for a long > weekend sail. > Hope to see you on the water sometime. > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > M17 #92 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 10 Aug 1998 21:59:55 -0500 (CDT) Hi again, Guess I'm in the blabber mouth mode tonight. On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Doug Kelch wrote: > > The "T" nut is also known as a "nut sert" in some circles. It > looks like a tube with the inside threaded like a nut. One end of the tube > has what looks like a flat washer welded to it. The flat washer looks like > is cut 1/2 through in three places with the cut part bent down parallel to > the tube. These bent down pieces form sharp teeth. > A hole is drilled through the backing plate the size of the T nut tube. The > T nut are then inserted in the hole and when a bolt is run into the T nut > and tightend the teeth bite into the wood and act like a lock washer and a > binding agent so that the T nuts do not fall out. Gee. I never got so clever. > > If you recall from the previous instructions you can use wire and > string to fish the backing plate through the small spaces to the inside of > the transom. I have head at least two stories of small kids or adults > becoming stuck inside the confined spaces of small boats trying to do this > by hand. I cheated. I cut out a 4" hole about a foot ahead of the transom on the starboard side of the footwell and installed a Nicro access port. It was placed there so I could reach the nuts on the swimladder, run wires for a stern light and a cleat that I won't tell anyone about. I've thought about buying a small bag that fits in the access ports for storage but don't know what I'd hide in there. Randy P. Oui-1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 11 Aug 1998 12:02:06 EDT Randy Just wondering what # your M-23 was ( is ) ? Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 11 Aug 1998 09:37:06 +0000 If someone can find a source for a good swim ladder, let me know. I periodiclly look at ladders in the local West Marine and some other local boat shops, but just can't bring myself to buy something that looks so flimsy and would probably not fit right. Randys modifications sound interesting, more details would be appreciated. I like the idea of a fixed, transom mounted, fold down or telescoping ladder, about 10" wide, 12" long in the retracted mode, and as long as possible when extended. I do not know if 24" extended is long enough; opinions from others would be helpful, as well thoughts about the width. If we could find a source (Railmakers or Svendsens) and can agree on a design, would anyone else be interested in trying for a volume discount? I would be willing to pay around $100. I have an access port, so installation would not be a big deal; others may have more problems. Bob M15 #208 ---------- > From: Randolph I Palmer > To: Montgomery List > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:47:16 -0500 (CDT) > >Stanley, > >I bought a Gareloc two-step ladder for about $50. The problem is with any >stock item built for a boat is it didn't quite fit. As I recall it was >14" wide and about as tall. Well, after about six month's worth of >hesitation and deciding there was nothing else on the market that looked >right, I had a mechanic friend cut 3" out of the center of the two rungs >and weld the pieces together. Chop saws are fun. It looks great and >works great. Maybe if enough M15 owners hound Railmakers (makers of the >M15's bowpulpits and some nice swimladders used by Catalina) or Bob Eeg >makes them standard equipment on the new M15's a nice one will be >available. I'll be glad to give more details. > >Randy P. > >On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Stanley Townsend wrote: > >> I'm ready to upgrade my boarding ladder situation. I started with none, >> and was truly shocked at how hard it was to get back into the boat after >> taking a dip on a hot, windless morning. Next I made my own rope ladder >> - just some tied in loops hanging off of a mooring cleat. Not much >> easier than nothing. Next I purchased a swim stirrup from West Marine - >> a plastic step on the end of a loop of line, also hung off the cleat. A >> little better, but not much. >> >> Aluminum or stainless steel seems to be in my future. The question is: >> do I want a permanent fixture or a hang-off-the-transom stow away? I >> have looked through my West Marine catalog. I have searched the list >> archieves. I've gone through all of my back issues of MON. In the Fall >> 96 MON, David Shough described his permanent ladder installation using >> "T" nuts. In Feb 97, Rich posted that he had used David's instructions >> and done this as well. A sketch or two might help me better understand >> this procedure - right now it's a little fuzzy for me. >> >> Part of me likes a permanent installation - always in place in case of >> "man overboard" - no need to find a place to stow it. Part of me >> doesn't want to drill holes and cover up my boat's name on the transom. >> The stirrup would get me back aboard in an emergency, and the ladder >> could be hung just for swimming. >> >> I welcome all responses. Anyone using the Garelick gunwale mount >> ladder? Does it hang straight enough on the transom? 7" or 11" hook >> width? Any tips on other stowables? Any tips on permanent mounts? >> Thanks in advance. >> >> -- >> townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 11 Aug 1998 11:57:03 -0700 Bob, Yes, I would definitely be interested, and I also have an access port. Dan =C9tude M15 #384 -----Original Message----- >If someone can find a source for a good swim ladder, let me know. I >periodiclly look at ladders in the local West Marine and some other loc= al >boat shops, but just can't bring myself to buy something that looks so >flimsy and would probably not fit right. > >Randys modifications sound interesting, more details would be appreciate= d. > >I like the idea of a fixed, transom mounted, fold down or telescoping >ladder, about 10" wide, 12" long in the retracted mode, and as long as >possible when extended. I do not know if 24" extended is long enough; >opinions from others would be helpful, as well thoughts about the width. > >If we could find a source (Railmakers or Svendsens) and can agree on a >design, would anyone else be interested in trying for a volume discount?= I >would be willing to pay around $100. I have an access port, so installation >would not be a big deal; others may have more problems. > >Bob >M15 #208 > > >---------- >> From: Randolph I Palmer >> To: Montgomery List >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 >> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:47:16 -0500 (CDT) >> >>Stanley, >> >>I bought a Gareloc two-step ladder for about $50. The problem is with = any >>stock item built for a boat is it didn't quite fit. As I recall it was >>14" wide and about as tall. Well, after about six month's worth of >>hesitation and deciding there was nothing else on the market that looke= d >>right, I had a mechanic friend cut 3" out of the center of the two rung= s >>and weld the pieces together. Chop saws are fun. It looks great and >>works great. Maybe if enough M15 owners hound Railmakers (makers of th= e >>M15's bowpulpits and some nice swimladders used by Catalina) or Bob Eeg >>makes them standard equipment on the new M15's a nice one will be >>available. I'll be glad to give more details. >> >>Randy P. >> >>On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Stanley Townsend wrote: >> >>> I'm ready to upgrade my boarding ladder situation. I started with no= ne, >>> and was truly shocked at how hard it was to get back into the boat af= ter >>> taking a dip on a hot, windless morning. Next I made my own rope lad= der >>> - just some tied in loops hanging off of a mooring cleat. Not much >>> easier than nothing. Next I purchased a swim stirrup from West Marin= e - >>> a plastic step on the end of a loop of line, also hung off the cleat.= A >>> little better, but not much. >>> >>> Aluminum or stainless steel seems to be in my future. The question i= s: >>> do I want a permanent fixture or a hang-off-the-transom stow away? I >>> have looked through my West Marine catalog. I have searched the list >>> archieves. I've gone through all of my back issues of MON. In the F= all >>> 96 MON, David Shough described his permanent ladder installation usin= g >>> "T" nuts. In Feb 97, Rich posted that he had used David's instructio= ns >>> and done this as well. A sketch or two might help me better understa= nd >>> this procedure - right now it's a little fuzzy for me. >>> >>> Part of me likes a permanent installation - always in place in case o= f >>> "man overboard" - no need to find a place to stow it. Part of me >>> doesn't want to drill holes and cover up my boat's name on the transo= m. >>> The stirrup would get me back aboard in an emergency, and the ladder >>> could be hung just for swimming. >>> >>> I welcome all responses. Anyone using the Garelick gunwale mount >>> ladder? Does it hang straight enough on the transom? 7" or 11" hook >>> width? Any tips on other stowables? Any tips on permanent mounts? >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> -- >>> townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 11 Aug 1998 12:35:57 -0700 Robert Becker wrote: > If we could find a source (Railmakers or Svendsens) and can agree on a > design, would anyone else be interested in trying for a volume discount? I > would be willing to pay around $100. --Count me in. -- townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "greg" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 11 Aug 1998 17:12:01 -0700 Bob, I have a M17 and also am looking for a permanent mounted ladder. I would be interested and willing to go $100. Greg M17 #395 -----Original Message----- >If someone can find a source for a good swim ladder, let me know. I >periodiclly look at ladders in the local West Marine and some other local >boat shops, but just can't bring myself to buy something that looks so >flimsy and would probably not fit right. > >Randys modifications sound interesting, more details would be appreciated. > >I like the idea of a fixed, transom mounted, fold down or telescoping >ladder, about 10" wide, 12" long in the retracted mode, and as long as >possible when extended. I do not know if 24" extended is long enough; >opinions from others would be helpful, as well thoughts about the width. > >If we could find a source (Railmakers or Svendsens) and can agree on a >design, would anyone else be interested in trying for a volume discount? I >would be willing to pay around $100. I have an access port, so installation >would not be a big deal; others may have more problems. > >Bob >M15 #208 > > >---------- >> From: Randolph I Palmer >> To: Montgomery List >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 >> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:47:16 -0500 (CDT) >> >>Stanley, >> >>I bought a Gareloc two-step ladder for about $50. The problem is with any >>stock item built for a boat is it didn't quite fit. As I recall it was >>14" wide and about as tall. Well, after about six month's worth of >>hesitation and deciding there was nothing else on the market that looked >>right, I had a mechanic friend cut 3" out of the center of the two rungs >>and weld the pieces together. Chop saws are fun. It looks great and >>works great. Maybe if enough M15 owners hound Railmakers (makers of the >>M15's bowpulpits and some nice swimladders used by Catalina) or Bob Eeg >>makes them standard equipment on the new M15's a nice one will be >>available. I'll be glad to give more details. >> >>Randy P. >> >>On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Stanley Townsend wrote: >> >>> I'm ready to upgrade my boarding ladder situation. I started with none, >>> and was truly shocked at how hard it was to get back into the boat after >>> taking a dip on a hot, windless morning. Next I made my own rope ladder >>> - just some tied in loops hanging off of a mooring cleat. Not much >>> easier than nothing. Next I purchased a swim stirrup from West Marine - >>> a plastic step on the end of a loop of line, also hung off the cleat. A >>> little better, but not much. >>> >>> Aluminum or stainless steel seems to be in my future. The question is: >>> do I want a permanent fixture or a hang-off-the-transom stow away? I >>> have looked through my West Marine catalog. I have searched the list >>> archieves. I've gone through all of my back issues of MON. In the Fall >>> 96 MON, David Shough described his permanent ladder installation using >>> "T" nuts. In Feb 97, Rich posted that he had used David's instructions >>> and done this as well. A sketch or two might help me better understand >>> this procedure - right now it's a little fuzzy for me. >>> >>> Part of me likes a permanent installation - always in place in case of >>> "man overboard" - no need to find a place to stow it. Part of me >>> doesn't want to drill holes and cover up my boat's name on the transom. >>> The stirrup would get me back aboard in an emergency, and the ladder >>> could be hung just for swimming. >>> >>> I welcome all responses. Anyone using the Garelick gunwale mount >>> ladder? Does it hang straight enough on the transom? 7" or 11" hook >>> width? Any tips on other stowables? Any tips on permanent mounts? >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> -- >>> townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 11 Aug 1998 22:22:17 EDT Ian, Thank you for the advice, I will use my Honda outboard for the trip and mount a VHF. Hopefully, the fall season will be as beautiful and dry as mid to late summer has been. Hooper's finished repairing my transom, and I will pick up my M17 this week. They reinforced the middle gudgeon. See you at Pepin? Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 11 Aug 1998 22:43:08 EDT Greg and listers, I installed the Garelick 3 step pedistal style boarding/dive ladder this spring and found it to be wonderful. It offers the quick disconnect yet locks in place when in use. I stow it below while sailing and like having the transom area un-cluttered. The 3 step is 38 inches in length and the small mounting bracket attaches above the cockpit seat on the transom. Goodbye barking of shins using a rope ladder! Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 12 Aug 1998 03:15:28 EDT Hello, I have used the Catalina version of Railmakers ladder (C-22) on a great number of boats with excellent results. Try giving Dave at Railmakers a call and ask him to build a smaller version for the 15 and 17. Dave will hopefully respond if you can get a decent number committed and sold. I would heartily reccomend these fine folks as my company has been doing business with them for many years; and always satisfied. If you try the Catalina 22 ladder make sure you mount the outboard leg on the edge of the transom to use the 'corner' as reinforcement, dont forget a large doubler to spread the load on the transom. Good Sailing Gary O. M-17 # 319 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roy Cameron Sarver Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 12 Aug 1998 10:23:59 -0700 AZYacht@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, > I have used the Catalina version of Railmakers ladder (C-22) on a great number > of boats with excellent results. > Try giving Dave at Railmakers a call and ask him to build a smaller version > for the 15 and 17. Dave will hopefully respond if you can get a decent number > committed and sold. > I would heartily reccomend these fine folks as my company has been doing > business with them for many years; and always satisfied. > If you try the Catalina 22 ladder make sure you mount the outboard leg on the > edge of the transom to use the 'corner' as reinforcement, dont forget a large > doubler to spread the load on the transom. > Good Sailing > Gary O. > M-17 # 319 I would be interested in a ladder also. The access port sounds like a good idea. I will be geting out my saw this weekend. Roy Sarver Urania ( M-15 #305 ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 12 Aug 1998 09:34:18 +0000 Gary O. That sounds like a good lead. Do you have a number for Dave at Railmakers? We have a Railmakers in the Bay Area, so this may be a franchise name. I will give the locals a call, too. Thanks, Bob M15 #208 ---------- > From: > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 03:15:28 EDT > >Hello, >I have used the Catalina version of Railmakers ladder (C-22) on a great number >of boats with excellent results. >Try giving Dave at Railmakers a call and ask him to build a smaller version >for the 15 and 17. Dave will hopefully respond if you can get a decent number >committed and sold. >I would heartily reccomend these fine folks as my company has been doing >business with them for many years; and always satisfied. >If you try the Catalina 22 ladder make sure you mount the outboard leg on the >edge of the transom to use the 'corner' as reinforcement, dont forget a large >doubler to spread the load on the transom. >Good Sailing >Gary O. >M-17 # 319 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 13 Aug 1998 21:26:12 -0400 Jerry After spending a week sailing on Lake Champlain with our "new" M-15 I have a problem and need some professional consultation from you. The problem is water in the port cabin storage locker (also in the starboard one but very minor in comparison to the port locker quantity. We discovered about a gallon of water in the locker after several hours of sailing. Research at the dock showed that the water was coming in between the hull and the interior liner. When heeled on the starboard tack, water was squirting in via a small hole at the upper aft edge of the hull/liner joint. My wife verified this when I creened the boat at the dock, and she could locate the source of the incoming water. With the boat back at the dock, and not heeling, I presume that the water then gets into the bow storage area, and finds it's way to the starboard locker. I can't imagine how water can get in between the liner and the hull, unless there is some sort of damage in the centerboard slot. Is this problem anything you are familiar with, and do you have a suggestion as to how to proceede to locate and rectify it? Or is it a unique problem to my boat? Any words of wisdom or ideas on how to find the source of the leak would be appreciated. Connie Benneck M-15 #400 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 12 Aug 1998 19:10:41 +0000 I agree the un-cluttered transom area looks better, but I sail in sometimes rough water and want a ladder permanently mounted, rather than sitting in the cabin when I really need it. Do you find the 38" adequate? When I measure 38" down from the transom, the bottom step is about 12" or so below the keel, which sounds ok. How wide is your Garelick? Do you think 10'' is too narrow? Bob M15 #208 ---------- > From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:43:08 EDT > >Greg and listers, > >I installed the Garelick 3 step pedistal style boarding/dive ladder this >spring and found it to be wonderful. It offers the quick disconnect yet >locks in place when in use. >I stow it below while sailing and like having the transom area >un-cluttered. The 3 step is 38 inches in length and the small mounting >bracket attaches above the cockpit seat on the transom. Goodbye barking >of shins using a rope ladder! > >Michael "Bones" Bowden >M17 #92 > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: M17 for sale Date: 12 Aug 1998 22:19:59 EDT Am considering trading my M17 and cash for an M23. See the attached (don't know if this mail system can forward attached documents but we'll find out) spec. sheet. If no trade, firm price is $6000.00. Love the boat but am boat rich and must choose between M17 and my Pearson Ariel. If I can manage to find an M23, will sell Ariel. 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AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAQAAACAAAAAQAAAP7///8AAAAAAAAAAP////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////w== --part0_902975168_boundary-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Haas Subject: M_Boats: Trailer Bunk Boards Date: 12 Aug 1998 20:44:18 -0700 I'm getting ready to replace the bunks on my M-15's trailer. Any suggestions on the best type of wood to use.; fir, cedar, sunwood?? Don Haas, Dream Catcher m15-248 Randolph I Palmer wrote: > Hi again, > > Guess I'm in the blabber mouth mode tonight. > > On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Doug Kelch wrote: > > > > The "T" nut is also known as a "nut sert" in some circles. It > > looks like a tube with the inside threaded like a nut. One end of the tube > > has what looks like a flat washer welded to it. The flat washer looks like > > is cut 1/2 through in three places with the cut part bent down parallel to > > the tube. These bent down pieces form sharp teeth. > > A hole is drilled through the backing plate the size of the T nut tube. The > > T nut are then inserted in the hole and when a bolt is run into the T nut > > and tightend the teeth bite into the wood and act like a lock washer and a > > binding agent so that the T nuts do not fall out. > > Gee. I never got so clever. > > > > > If you recall from the previous instructions you can use wire and > > string to fish the backing plate through the small spaces to the inside of > > the transom. I have head at least two stories of small kids or adults > > becoming stuck inside the confined spaces of small boats trying to do this > > by hand. > > I cheated. I cut out a 4" hole about a foot ahead of the transom on the > starboard side of the footwell and installed a Nicro access port. It was > placed there so I could reach the nuts on the swimladder, run wires for a > stern light and a cleat that I won't tell anyone about. I've thought > about buying a small bag that fits in the access ports for storage but > don't know what I'd hide in there. > > Randy P. > Oui-1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Bunk Boards Date: 13 Aug 1998 08:36:54 EDT ...use treated[cca]pine...nothing less ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Trailer Bunk Boards Date: 13 Aug 1998 10:30:09 -0400 > I'm getting ready to replace the bunks on my M-15's trailer. Any suggestions on >the best type of wood to use.; fir, cedar, sunwood? When I rebuilt my 1983 Trail-Rite trailer last winter I found the wood of the (presumably) original bunks to be in quite good condition. It seemed to be a simple fir 2x4. I replaced them with preservative treated 2x4s from the local Home Depot. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 for sale Date: 13 Aug 1998 20:08:20 EDT Go to the website- yachts101.com - They have 23 that appears to be loaded. It's in Redwood City Ca. sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Bunk Boards Date: 13 Aug 1998 20:11:27 EDT As you are replacing 2 boards, Try using the recycled plastic 2X4's. They cut and look like wood but will never rot. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 13 Aug 1998 09:22:36 +0000 AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > > Bones > > Is # 92 a combo-keel or cast iron swing keel ? > > Lenny Hi Lenny 92 is a keel/cb model, with a cast iron cb. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 14 Aug 1998 23:32:26 EDT Thanks Jerry...........Hope all went well on your vacation.........do you happen to remember how many cast iron swing keels were produced.? ( the worm gear type ) Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Date: 14 Aug 1998 23:53:37 EDT Robert, I looked at the ladder this evening and it appears to be around 10" wide, or so. I also have a single hinged step on my rudder above the waterline which could be folded down in an emergency to offer boarding help. It's a task to use. I agree a permanently mounted ladder is a great safety feature. Fair winds Michael Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: M_Boats: M15 Boarding ladder Date: 15 Aug 1998 10:14:04 +0000 The hunt for a M15 boarding ladder continues. I visited the Railmakers in Alameda and found that they are booked up with work for the next 6 months. They said to come back then and -maybe- they can talk to me. The firm was founded my Monty (?) in Alameda; his brother in law runs the branch in Costa Mesa (Southern Ca). Svendsens in Alameda was more polite, but still had nothing but bad news. To fabricate a ladder would cost $400-500. He suggested buying a ladder directly from Catalina and he could modify it to fit. Does anyone know now to get a price from Catalina? Those tackey mail order ladders are starting to look better. Bob M15 #208 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Railmakers # 's Date: 15 Aug 1998 14:40:59 EDT Bob, The name and # for Railmakers,Inc. is as follows: Railmakers, Inc. Dave Hawley 864 W 18th St Costa Mesa, Ca 92627 (714) 642-6506 Fax (714) 642-8066 Tell Dave, Gary from Arizona Yachts says 'Hi' ( he will probably charge you 3X as much if he hears that!!!!!!!) These guys do 1st class work and are reasonable AND great folks. Gary Oberbeck M-17 # 319 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Boarding ladder Date: 15 Aug 1998 14:48:29 EDT C-22 Ladder with fasteners etc. including velcro retaining strap should cost about $145-$165.. Call Catalina @ 818 884 7700 ask for Parts Dept. G Oberbeck M-17 #319 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Boarding ladder Date: 15 Aug 1998 12:13:52 -0700 >Bob, Try <> on the internet. As I recall, a boarding ladder for a C22 is about $135. Steve M15-159 Sojornen The hunt for a M15 boarding ladder continues. > >I visited the Railmakers in Alameda and found that they are booked up with >work for the next 6 months. They said to come back then and -maybe- they >can talk to me. The firm was founded my Monty (?) in Alameda; his brother >in law runs the branch in Costa Mesa (Southern Ca). > >Svendsens in Alameda was more polite, but still had nothing but bad news. >To fabricate a ladder would cost $400-500. He suggested buying a ladder >directly from Catalina and he could modify it to fit. > >Does anyone know now to get a price from Catalina? > >Those tackey mail order ladders are starting to look better. > >Bob >M15 #208 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 15 Aug 1998 20:38:06 +0000 Lenny, I think about 10 or 12, then a few iron fixed keel boats (great boats, and the only one I know of anymore is owned by Dick Algire in Salt Lake, who should replace the bolts 25 years later) We just went thru there last Tues and took a quick look for it to see if the keel was still hanging in there but didn't see it (the boat). We were a day behind schedual (Barbara's- not mine!) with a tailwind and Barbara was still looking over her shoulder for the bear that almost et her in Montana! Jerry AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks Jerry...........Hope all went well on your vacation.........do you > happen to remember how many cast iron swing keels were produced.? ( the worm > gear type ) > > Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dick Allgire Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 16 Aug 1998 09:23:10 -0700 >Lenny, I think about 10 or 12, then a few iron fixed keel boats (great >boats, and the only one I know of anymore is owned by Dick Algire in >Salt Lake, who should replace the bolts 25 years later) We just went >thru there last Tues and took a quick look for it to see if the keel was >still hanging in there but didn't see it (the boat). We were a day >behind schedual (Barbara's- not mine!) with a tailwind and Barbara was >still looking over her shoulder for the bear that almost et her in >Montana! > >Jerry > >AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: >> >> Thanks Jerry...........Hope all went well on your vacation.........do you >> happen to remember how many cast iron swing keels were produced.? ( the >>worm >> gear type ) The boat is still at the marina but I don't own it..not all of it at least. The buyer, a good friend, paid me all I asked but $1 which he claims makes me a part owner and I can sail it anytime I feel like it, which I haven't recently....age catching up with me....and those keel bolts when we checked them a year ago, were still in good shape.......still sails like a dream come true. Regards all.......... >> >> Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: Boarding ladder - M15 Railmakers # 's Date: 16 Aug 1998 10:12:32 +0000 Thanks, Steve and Gary, for the numbers for Catalina boarding ladders. I will make some calls next week. Bob M15 #208 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery Boats Date: 16 Aug 1998 16:32:30 EDT I found the list almost by accident. I presently sail a Com-Pac 19 on Lake St. Clair, and have owned this boat for 9 years. About 2 years ago, in a quest for a great sailing but more portable boat, I bought a Montgomery 15 from a dealer in Minneapolis. Cleaned it up and sailed it once before selling it. The 15 was too small for me at my then current weight. Sold the boat and am still sailing the Com-Pac, but have a high regard for Jerry Montgomery and his boats. If I ever find a 17 in good shape, I would be tempted. I am now retired, have lost some of my personal ballast, and still like the idea of a good sailing boat, large enough for the Great Lakes, yet small enough to rig, launch, and trailer with relative ease. Russ Browne Windsong CP-19 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Tsai Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 17 Aug 1998 08:46:51 -0700 I joined the list just last and remembered while browsing through the = archive, saw a Montgomery owner in Raleigh, NC by the name: Scot Bower. = I didn't find him in the phone book. =20 Does Scot still subscribe to the list or does anyone know if there are = any Montgomery owners in North Carolina? I have heard a lot about these = boats but have never seen one. Jeff=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 17 Aug 1998 10:07:44 +0000 Conbert H Benneck wrote: > > Jerry > After spending a week sailing on Lake Champlain with our "new" M-15 I > have a problem and need some professional consultation from you. > > The problem is water in the port cabin storage locker (also in the > starboard one but very minor in comparison to the port locker quantity. > We discovered about a gallon of water in the locker after several hours > of sailing. > Research at the dock showed that the water was coming in between the hull > and the interior liner. When heeled on the starboard tack, water was > squirting in via a small hole at the upper aft edge of the hull/liner > joint. My wife verified this when I creened the boat at the dock, and > she could locate the source of the incoming water. > With the boat back at the dock, and not heeling, I presume that the water > then gets into the bow storage area, and finds it's way to the starboard > locker. > > I can't imagine how water can get in between the liner and the hull, > unless there is some sort of damage in the centerboard slot. > > Is this problem anything you are familiar with, and do you have a > suggestion as to how to proceede to locate and rectify it? Or is it a > unique problem to my boat? > Any words of wisdom or ideas on how to find the source of the leak would > be appreciated. > > Connie Benneck > M-15 #400 > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] HI CONNIE First, be sure that there isn't a hole in the hull somewhere in the bottom of the boat. Next thing to check is some damage on the keel, either at it's joint with the centerboard trunk or at the pivot pin hole. Check this by leveling the boat on the trailer, putting a couple of gallons of fresh water in the boat, under the liner, and crawling under the boat with a good book and a sixpack of beer. Sooner or later if the water is going in thru the keel, it's gotta come out the same way. I believe that the leak is more likely to be at the pivot hole than along the bottom, unless the boat has been grounded hard, and even then there is an awful lot of fiberglass down there. If no luck that way, it could be leaking thru the joint between the deck and the top of the cb trunk. On the very early 15's the liner came up almost to the bottom of the deck and bonding the deck to the actual top of the trunk (not the liner) was difficult to do well and even more difficult to inspect, and we had about a half-dozen boats that leaked when new, so we got tired of that pretty fast and I cut the top of the trunk part of the liner down a couple of inches and cured the problem. The "leakers" acted as you have described. I know of no boats that developed this problem other than when new, but anything is possible. You can probably determine if this is the problem by having someone squirt water in the cockpit drain with a wide-open hose (you'll have to close the hatch) and standing on your head in both lockers. Don't try to drink a beer when standing on your head- I can testify that it doesn't work. Contact me for a solution after determining the problem. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 17 Aug 1998 15:47:24 EDT Thanks Jerry.............Just curious. I sold # 36 here in Phoenix and have just returned form Tucson where I purchased M-23 # 3. What an awsome boat......I can't wait to get her in the water. Lenny Phoenix M-23 # 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: M_Boats: M15 boarding ladder Date: 17 Aug 1998 14:53:22 +0000 Update on the search for a boarding ladder. I called Catalina Parts and they have a C22 ladder for $135 + s/h + tax. I asked for a drawing and they had none because it was vendor supplied, and the vendor was Railmakers. I called Railmakers in Costa Mesa and Dave said they make a generic small boat boarding ladder for $92 + s/h+tax, and he faxed me a drawing. (Railmakers CM supplied the bow pulpit for the Montgomery) The ladder is suppose to be good for any small boat with a flat transom. It sounded like he supplies McGregor and Catlaina. The ladder is 10" wide and 35" long and mounts at pivot points on the end of each leg; that is, the ladder is one piece, 3 steps, 11" apart, loa 35", that swings up or down from its mounting. The hinge is 7/8" tubing inside of 1" tubing. There is a 3" standoff on each leg, about 10" from the hinge. The ladder steps are 1" tubing; he has treads if you want to install them. Here again, a picture is worth a thousand words. Because of the standoffs, the ladder must be mounted about 11-12" above the boats bottom. On my M15, this puts the top of the retracted ladder about 5-7" above the top of the aft pulpit. If you do not have a stern pulpit, the ladder will stick up about 24" above the gunwale. When deployed, the bottom step of the ladder will be about 2 feet below the water line. This ladder will certainly fit the M15, and probably the M17. The esthetics are a matter of personal choice, but I think it will look best on a M15 with a stern pulpit. I do not know the M17 well enough to visualize how it would look on it. Dave at Railmakers said I may distribute the drawing to our list, so let me know if you want a copy, or, call Dave at Railmakers at 714.642.6506. I will send it directly to you as a GIF enclosure, which most systems should be able to handle. He is currently out of stock of the ladders, but expects to produce more within a week or two. Bob M15 #208 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 boarding ladder Date: 17 Aug 1998 15:36:10 -0700 Bob I would appreciate a copy of the drawing. Dan dand@zimmer.csufresno.edu -----Original Message----- >Update on the search for a boarding ladder. > >I called Catalina Parts and they have a C22 ladder for $135 + s/h + tax. I >asked for a drawing and they had none because it was vendor supplied, and >the vendor was Railmakers. > >I called Railmakers in Costa Mesa and Dave said they make a generic small >boat boarding ladder for $92 + s/h+tax, and he faxed me a drawing. >(Railmakers CM supplied the bow pulpit for the Montgomery) The ladder is >suppose to be good for any small boat with a flat transom. It sounded like >he supplies McGregor and Catlaina. > >The ladder is 10" wide and 35" long and mounts at pivot points on the end of >each leg; that is, the ladder is one piece, 3 steps, 11" apart, loa 35", >that swings up or down from its mounting. The hinge is 7/8" tubing inside >of 1" tubing. There is a 3" standoff on each leg, about 10" from the hinge. >The ladder steps are 1" tubing; he has treads if you want to install them. >Here again, a picture is worth a thousand words. > >Because of the standoffs, the ladder must be mounted about 11-12" above the >boats bottom. On my M15, this puts the top of the retracted ladder about >5-7" above the top of the aft pulpit. If you do not have a stern pulpit, >the ladder will stick up about 24" above the gunwale. When deployed, the >bottom step of the ladder will be about 2 feet below the water line. > >This ladder will certainly fit the M15, and probably the M17. The esthetics >are a matter of personal choice, but I think it will look best on a M15 with >a stern pulpit. I do not know the M17 well enough to visualize how it would >look on it. > >Dave at Railmakers said I may distribute the drawing to our list, so let me >know if you want a copy, or, call Dave at Railmakers at 714.642.6506. I >will send it directly to you as a GIF enclosure, which most systems should >be able to handle. > >He is currently out of stock of the ladders, but expects to produce more >within a week or two. > >Bob >M15 #208 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 boarding ladder Date: 18 Aug 1998 19:29:46 EDT I'd also appreciate a drawing of the ladder Thankx ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Date: 19 Aug 1998 00:16:20 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDCB06.977C7400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bert, Sorry, don't have your address. I understand you have a 2 step = ladder. Just how satisfactory is it? Dan ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDCB06.977C7400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bert,
    Sorry, don't have = your=20 address. I understand you have a 2 step ladder. Just how satisfactory is = it?
       =20 Dan
 
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDCB06.977C7400-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 for sale Date: 19 Aug 1998 12:33:00 EDT Thanks for M23 info Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Re: Date: 19 Aug 1998 19:39:22 EDT Anybody know the website address for Trailrite Trailers?.. I'm looking for a new trailer for my M-23/ Lenny Sea Horse M-# 003 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 20 Aug 1998 20:59:34 -0400 Dear Jerry, Thanks for the excellent information and suggestions regarding finding my leak. I think it may be coming from the upper end of the centerboard pennant opening. I found some crazing, and broken gelcoat in the area, which resulted in a leak into the cabin from the cockpit (I had the hose running in the cockpit and found the leak that way). I suspect, that perhaps the previous owner got the centerboard stuck in the trunk and used brute force and awkwardness to break it loose - and in so doing, damaged caused the leak. Will have to see if I can borrow an endoscope to inspect the interior of the centerboard housing where the pennant comes into the cockpit. However, as an engineer, I would like to quantify the time required to find the leak. Time is a function of beer volume consumption. You suggest a 6 pack and a book as one waits for the drip to find it's way to the outside world. But, Jerry, are we talking "normal" beer can sizes - 12 ounces - or, do you West Coast types go for the Foster Lager, which comes in 16 ounce cans. After all, time is a variable, and I would like to define it a bit more closely. .....or in your expert opinion, do 12 ounce cans provide enough time for the drip to announce itself? But if I have no drip after consuming the the 12 ouncers? .....try the Fosters larger sizes? Could it be possible that two 6 packs might be needed before the drip starts, or does your experience say, one 6 pack and you'll find the problem? In either case, I will lay in a supply of 12 ounce 6 Packs, and a supply of Foster 6 Packs, just in case the problem isn't resolved within the 12 ounce 6 Pack time frame. On second thought, could Martinis substitute for the beer? .... does it make a difference in leak finding if you use olives, or are onions the preferred leak finder: stirred; or shaken?? Man life do get complicated......! Leak finding is on hold for the next 10 days: our club is having a German Beer Fest with a 20 piece brass band from Germany, on the 29th and 30th of August. We expect about 3,500 people to attend, and I am busy overhauling a kitchen machine to shred potatoes for potato pancakes - one of our specialties. I also have to build a stand for the machine, and a base with wheels so that we can roll it around from our storage area to the kitchen. So, thanks again for your input. I'll let you know what I find; and how I found it shortly. Connie & Katrina Benneck M-15 # 400 LEPPO Will advise on my progress1 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Boat for sale Date: 19 Aug 1998 23:24:11 EDT Considering serious offers on "Coyote" - 1975 Montgomery 17 Flush-deck sail no. 69. One of 5 built - Jerry's personal boat. White hull w/grey deck, black sheer stripe, Black anodized mast & boom - tall rig Internal halyards, loose-footed main, baby stay, airfoil spreaders, split backstay w/adjuster, spinnaker gear, Harken mainsheet traveler, bulkhead mounted compass & knotmeter, custom motor mount, 3.5 Nissan long shaft motor available. Storm jib, 110%, 130%, 150%, 170%, 2 mains w/reef points, 1/2 oz & 3/4 oz spinnakers, lots of extra gear, rigging, etc. Custom trailer w/new 15" radials, new front trailer wheel; bearings & "buddies". Proven race winner & great day-sailer. No electrical system (weighs too much). Available in Tucson, Arizona - serious offers only - jslubliner@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 19 Aug 1998 22:00:47 -0700 AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > > Anybody know the website address for Trailrite Trailers?.. I'm looking for a > new trailer for my M-23/ > > Lenny > Sea Horse > M-# 003No website but try 800-443-2304 Dick M23 Sadhana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "." Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 boarding ladder Date: 20 Aug 1998 08:12:31 -0400 80820 Best 'Small boat' boarding ladder I`ve seen comes from IM - SS telescoping and rugged, fits a WWP-19 to a 'T' Grover S/V HA`PENNY ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 boarding ladder Date: 20 Aug 1998 06:46:41 -0700 > Best 'Small boat' boarding ladder I`ve seen comes from IM - SS telescoping and > rugged, fits a WWP-19 to a 'T' > > Grover S/V HA`PENNY More information (source, model #, etc.) would be appreciated. Thanks. -- townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 20 Aug 1998 11:00:27 EDT Hey gang! Does anyone out there sail on Lake Mead ?? Sailcrzy former owner M-17 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "." Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 boarding ladder Date: 20 Aug 1998 11:15:42 -0400 80820 1115VAT CALL: 1-800-433-4080 >NOON PACTIME Grover ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: new mast for 15 needed Date: 20 Aug 1998 12:18:01 EDT Help!!!!! I demasted my M 15 on a power line. Where do I get a new one? Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 boarding ladder Date: 20 Aug 1998 11:59:07 -0700 Grover, Plese tell me more. Who/where is IM-SS, price etc. Thanks in advance. Dan -----Original Message----- >80820 >Best 'Small boat' boarding ladder I`ve seen comes from IM - SS telescoping and >rugged, fits a WWP-19 to a 'T' > > Grover S/V HA`PENNY > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 20 Aug 1998 12:11:10 -0700 Connie & Katrina, After a few six-packs (whether 12 or 16 oz.) whatever the quantified of time, you will surely discover your own leaks before the Montgomery drips a drop. Wish I could be there for some of those potato pancakes. Joe Kidd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 20 Aug 1998 11:42:44 +0000 Joe Kidd wrote: > > Connie & Katrina, > > After a few six-packs (whether 12 or 16 oz.) whatever the quantified of > time, you will surely discover your own leaks before the Montgomery drips a > drop. > > Wish I could be there for some of those potato pancakes. > > Joe Kidd Joe Isn't that one of the benefits of teamwork? Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: M_Boats: [Fwd: new mast] Date: 20 Aug 1998 12:07:56 +0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5CA4310868D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This must be the month for arguing with powerlines. I've had a rash of inquiries in the last few weeks about masts for the 15. Oniginally this section was a modification of the Sparcraft 103, and the particular die that I used belonged to me and was at Revere Aluminum in S, CA. Revere filed BK in the late 80's (unknown to me) and at that time I had about a thousand pounds of 15 masts, which was several year's supply. When I started running low I attempted to contact Revere and found out the situation, and also found out that another company had bought the assets, including the extrusion dies, but had patched all died that had not been used in the last year! Oh Well. You that need new masts have two choices. One, talk Bob Eeg into springing for a new die and some aluminum (this is a long process and would take several months. Two, contact Dwyer Aluminum, I think in Connecticut, and talk to them. They have a section that is very similar and all the hardware off the old mast will fit. (The masthead will have to bedded in epoxy putty). Seems like I used a Dyer mast on the prototype while waiting for my die to be built. Just looked in my old rolladex and found a # for Dwyer; 203 484-0419. Good luck. Another thought- Bob Eeg eventually plans to build the 15 and he may have already found a supply of suitable masts. Jerry --------------5CA4310868D9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by spider.innercite.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04475 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Mont15@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 0HYRa11467 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1dcfccab.35dc4bcd@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Jerry, Help!!!!!!!!! While pulling my 1984 M 15 out in B.C. last week, I demasted her on a power line. Needless to say, I need a new mast. Where can I get one in a hurry? To make matters worse, the boat is for sale. Bert Felton 510 339-7050 Please either e mail me or call collect. --------------5CA4310868D9-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Date: 20 Aug 1998 12:44:40 +0000 I've been bad! A few weeks ago my old friend, tormenter, and sailing buddy Tom Van Atta in Tucson asked me to put on the list a description of his 23 that he wants to sail. (He's getting too old to sail any more and doesn't have the time anyway since he's retired). I had my own priorities and forgot all about it. This boat was kind of a joint effort but mostly put together by another old friend who isn't too old but has gotten too fat to sail, Stan Susman, who wanted it for a MORC boat. It has a M-23 hull with the shallow-draft keel removed and replaced with a lead fin keel of about 1200 lbs, and has, yes, an M-15 house and cockpit set in a balsa-cored deck. The interior is plywood and pipeberths, simple but light and strong. Seems like the rig is off a Wavelength 24 and has a keel-stepped tapered mast with rod rigging. It did only fair in MORC competition in Newport Beach, according to Stan mostly because of the rating (couldn't have been because of his sailing), but Tom and I have done very well with it in the San Carlos race in Mexico. It's a touch faster than a J 24, except for upwind and spinnaker reaching in a blow where the extra weight of the J helps. This would be a fun boat for local lake racing and is a real sleeper; way, way faster than it looks. It's name is Windward Skunk and it's black on one side and white on the other! I'm tired of talking about it so talk to Tom at tavanatta@earthlink.net. His new superMac has arrived and he's all set. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: M_Boats: Tom's 23 Date: 20 Aug 1998 12:52:39 +0000 In reference to the last message make it SELL, not SAIL. I'm a terribvle typper evin when I go rilly slow. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: [Fwd: new mast] Date: 20 Aug 1998 18:41:38 EDT Jerry, Thank you for the prompt response. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 20 Aug 1998 18:45:14 EDT I have sailed Mead once for 6 days. Had a ball. Our club is having an event there in late Sept. What's up with you and Mead? Sandy LAKE PLEASANT SAILING CLUB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 20 Aug 1998 18:48:53 -0400 I live in Boulder City and have been drinking water from Mead for more years than I care to remember....What do you want to know.....Larry Barkhuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: British Columbia Date: 20 Aug 1998 17:09:45 -0700 Bert: Tell us about your trip to British Columbia. Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 21 Aug 1998 21:36:07 -0400 All right fellows If you are all drooling over potato pancakes, should I send you the recipe? It starts: peel 1700 lbs of potatos..... , but I can reduce it to more normal sized quantities also. At one of our early beer fests we had people standing in line for 1 and 1/2 hours to get potato pancakes!!!! We've improved the production since then! Jerry's helpful words of advice point me in the right direction for leak detecting, but as an engineer I am also concerned with all the variables that can get in the equation: such as: - beer Brand - domestic or imported? - beer temperature - beer consumption rate - to be drunk while standing normally waiting for the leak to show, or drunk while lying under the boat? - does the hour of the day of consumption play a role in the analysis Qustions, questions, questions: sheesh! Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen gray Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 21 Aug 1998 01:59:57 +0000 At 06:48 PM 8/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >I live in Boulder City and have been drinking water from Mead for more >years than I care to remember....What do you want to know.....Larry >Barkhuff > > We've sailed on Lake Mead for many years...If you would like to know more than what it "taste" like contact me off the net at below address. scgray@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tom's 23 Date: 20 Aug 1998 19:49:06 -0700 Jerry, Are you sure that you haven't been into the Anchor Steam? This typing stuff is almost as bad as trying to find leaks in a cb trunk. Regards, skp :-) >In reference to the last message make it SELL, not SAIL. I'm a terribvle >typper evin when I go rilly slow. > >Jerry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles R. Thompson" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 21 Aug 1998 09:41:19 -0400 Jeff Tsai wrote: > > I joined the list just last and remembered while browsing through the archive, saw a Montgomery owner in Raleigh, NC by the name: Scot Bower. I didn't find him in the phone book. > > Does Scot still subscribe to the list or does anyone know if there are any Montgomery owners in North Carolina? I have heard a lot about these boats but have never seen one. > > Jeff Hi, Jeff: Charlie Thompson here. I live on Echo Lake, Seven Lakes, N., West End, NC 27376. My Montgomery 15 is #298 and have had her since 1994. You are welcome to come and look-see. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randolph I. Palmer" Subject: M_Boats: Re: Great new weather site..cool Date: 21 Aug 1998 10:17:29 -0500 Hi all, Here's a neat new weather site that you might like. It even includes Great Lakes water levels - something I'd been searching for on the web. http://www.marineweather.com/ Fair winds, Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 21 Aug 1998 11:16:46 EDT Born and raised here in Las Vegas. I've been sailing Lake Mead for about fifteen years now. Most of those in a 1980 Montgomery 17. Everything from a calm to 50mph gusts.....After seven boats now the Montgomery is still the best handling boat I've had the privilage to sail!! Had to sell it due to financial difficulties....the DUMBEST thing I've done in a long time!! I'd like to know more about your gathering here in Sept.. Sailcrzy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 21 Aug 1998 11:16:31 EDT Born and raised here in Las Vegas. I've been sailing Lake Mead for about fifteen years now. Most of those in a 1980 Montgomery 17. Everything from a calm to 50mph gusts.....After seven boats now the Montgomery is still the best handling boat I've had the privilage to sail!! Had to sell it due to financial difficulties....the DUMBEST thing I've done in a long time!! I'd like to know more about your gathering here in Sept.. Sailcrzy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 21 Aug 1998 11:22:08 EDT Hi Larry, I live in Las Vegas. What type of Montgomery are you sailing? Chuck Sailcrzy@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 21 Aug 1998 12:47:24 +0000 Conbert H Benneck wrote: > > All right fellows > > If you are all drooling over potato pancakes, should I send you the > recipe? > > It starts: peel 1700 lbs of potatos..... , but I can reduce it to more > normal sized quantities also. > > At one of our early beer fests we had people standing in line for 1 and > 1/2 hours to get potato pancakes!!!! We've improved the production since > then! > > Jerry's helpful words of advice point me in the right direction for leak > detecting, but as an engineer I am also concerned with all the variables > that can get in the equation: > such as: > - beer Brand - domestic or imported? > - beer temperature > - beer consumption rate > - to be drunk while standing normally waiting for the leak to show, or > drunk while > lying under the boat? > - does the hour of the day of consumption play a role in the analysis > > Qustions, questions, questions: sheesh! > > Connie > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Hi Connie To help give an insight regarding leak-testing beer: The kind of beer doesn't matter a bit as long as it is cold. This takes care of your first two questions. The fourth question is dependant on the third; at a hi rate of consumption, it's best to lie down in order to eliminate the possibility of falling down. However, if your consumption rate is less than one oz. per minute you can probably get away with standing up, at least for a while, but be careful about bumping your head. I've found that it's best to go the high-consumption way only because you can see the bottom of the boat better that way. I guess it depends on your priorities. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 21 Aug 1998 19:09:22 -0400 Chuck, I had a 17 and sold a couple 17's through BC Marine in the early 80's and I just sold M23 #001 to a fellow in Oregon. Also the DUMBEST thing I have done in a long time. sure wish I had it back... I happen = to have probably the most current list of all of the M23 owners in the US. = Although I do not have the name of the fellow who just bought #003 in Tucson last week. I started compiling the list when I found another 23 a= couple slips down from mine in Laske Mead Marina, and it grew from there......In fact, I can just possibly take some of the credit for getti= ng Bob Eeg back into the picture and getting the boats goiong again....How about that Bob, do I get any credit??????? Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 21 Aug 1998 19:15:08 -0700 Jerry, In reading your directions on repairing minor faults on the Montgomerys one thing is rather evident!! My boat has always had a slight odor of flat beer. In mixing the resin during the layup process did the formula not only include the resin and hardener but also the ever present elixir? Did you use hand layup because no one could see well enough to use a chopper? Dan -----Original Message----- >Conbert H Benneck wrote: >> >> All right fellows >> >> If you are all drooling over potato pancakes, should I send you the >> recipe? >> >> It starts: peel 1700 lbs of potatos..... , but I can reduce it to more >> normal sized quantities also. >> >> At one of our early beer fests we had people standing in line for 1 and >> 1/2 hours to get potato pancakes!!!! We've improved the production since >> then! >> >> Jerry's helpful words of advice point me in the right direction for leak >> detecting, but as an engineer I am also concerned with all the variables >> that can get in the equation: >> such as: >> - beer Brand - domestic or imported? >> - beer temperature >> - beer consumption rate >> - to be drunk while standing normally waiting for the leak to show, or >> drunk while >> lying under the boat? >> - does the hour of the day of consumption play a role in the analysis >> >> Qustions, questions, questions: sheesh! >> >> Connie >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > >Hi Connie > >To help give an insight regarding leak-testing beer: > >The kind of beer doesn't matter a bit as long as it is cold. This takes >care of your first two questions. The fourth question is dependant on >the third; at a hi rate of consumption, it's best to lie down in order >to eliminate the possibility of falling down. However, if your >consumption rate is less than one oz. per minute you can probably get >away with standing up, at least for a while, but be careful about >bumping your head. I've found that it's best to go the high-consumption >way only because you can see the bottom of the boat better that way. I >guess it depends on your priorities. > >Jerry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Fell Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 20 Aug 1998 20:15:40 -0700 AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > > Anybody know the website address for Trailrite Trailers?.. I'm looking for a > new trailer for my M-23/ > > Lenny > Sea Horse > M-# 003Here's their telephone # 949-556-4540 or 714-556-4540. I'm not sure where the prefix takes effect. Try both. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 22 Aug 1998 09:57:35 EDT Hi Charlie, Just an update for you, we have a couple of M boats getting together the weekend of 9/12/98 in Solomons, Md. Nick is coming down in his 23 and we should have 2 17's and a couple of 15's as well. Maybe get together Thursday nite and depart on sunday As usual all M boaters are invited. Jerry and Debi if you see this we sure would like to see you too. anyone can give me a call at work 703-318-8138. Thanks Gary Valetti ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 22 Aug 1998 13:43:45 EDT Dan I love it....you're a riot.............no one could see to use a chopper ..LOL Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: beachcomber 25 catketch Date: 22 Aug 1998 15:27:28 EDT ...owner of m-17 wishes to sell beachcomber 25 catketch, boat needs tlc, has diesal inboard, sails roll up on masts, extreme shoal draft...13" draft, sleeps 4, large cockpit, extremely easy to sail,...honestly will sell for best cash offer to pay med bills...please by spreading the word...will send info if postal address is provided ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 22 Aug 1998 15:54:15 EDT Thanks John Called them and they don't sell retail.....have to go through a dealer. Oh well. Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 22 Aug 1998 15:59:54 EDT Gary Does Nick with the M-23 have an E-mail address ? Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 22 Aug 1998 14:33:10 +0000 Dan After extensive experimentation I learned that beer makes a far better catylist than MEK peroxide. That might explain the odor of beer in your boat. Another possibility is your boat might be one of the ones that we made when we ran out of ballast and we filled the keels with hundreds of semi-empty beer bottles that had been laying out in the sun. Most of the boats that we made on Mondays and Fridays were this way. But they're OK as long as you don't take them out in more than about 10 knots of wind! Jerry Dan Diehlman wrote: > > Jerry, > In reading your directions on repairing minor faults on the Montgomerys > one thing is rather evident!! > My boat has always had a slight odor of flat beer. In mixing the resin > during the layup process did the formula not only include the resin and > hardener but also the ever present elixir? Did you use hand layup because no > one could see well enough to use a chopper? > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: jerry montgomery > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 1:39 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: > > >Conbert H Benneck wrote: > >> > >> All right fellows > >> > >> If you are all drooling over potato pancakes, should I send you the > >> recipe? > >> > >> It starts: peel 1700 lbs of potatos..... , but I can reduce it to more > >> normal sized quantities also. > >> > >> At one of our early beer fests we had people standing in line for 1 and > >> 1/2 hours to get potato pancakes!!!! We've improved the production since > >> then! > >> > >> Jerry's helpful words of advice point me in the right direction for leak > >> detecting, but as an engineer I am also concerned with all the variables > >> that can get in the equation: > >> such as: > >> - beer Brand - domestic or imported? > >> - beer temperature > >> - beer consumption rate > >> - to be drunk while standing normally waiting for the leak to show, or > >> drunk while > >> lying under the boat? > >> - does the hour of the day of consumption play a role in the analysis > >> > >> Qustions, questions, questions: sheesh! > >> > >> Connie > >> > >> _____________________________________________________________________ > >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > > >Hi Connie > > > >To help give an insight regarding leak-testing beer: > > > >The kind of beer doesn't matter a bit as long as it is cold. This takes > >care of your first two questions. The fourth question is dependant on > >the third; at a hi rate of consumption, it's best to lie down in order > >to eliminate the possibility of falling down. However, if your > >consumption rate is less than one oz. per minute you can probably get > >away with standing up, at least for a while, but be careful about > >bumping your head. I've found that it's best to go the high-consumption > >way only because you can see the bottom of the boat better that way. I > >guess it depends on your priorities. > > > >Jerry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 23 Aug 1998 10:38:29 EDT Hi Lenny No he does not have e mail at this time. I have printed out pertinent info for him and faxed it to him. So if need be I can fax him for you. Did u just get the 23 ? As Im sure u know she's a great boat. Best of luck with her Take care Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Kokopelli/ M 15 for sale Date: 23 Aug 1998 11:58:02 EDT We have just returned from B.C. More to come about that trip, but here is a reposting. Montgomery 1984 Kokopelli $6,000 Bert 510 339-7050 sails: working jib, 180, storm jib, main with two sets of reef points motor: 1994 Johnson 3.3 (very low hours) hull: off white with red stripe, Interlux Micron black over two coats of Interlux 2000 deck: off white safety equipment: bow and stern pulpits, life lines, 2 life preservers, fire extinguisher, stainless hand rails, pad eye for harness, permanantly intalled ladder on transom, lightening arrester and ground cables, bilge pump running rigging: jib down haul, jib reefing lines (for working jib), Harken main sheet traveler with line and storage bags attached, running back stays for heavy winds or when using genniker, 2 sets of genoa tracks with cars and blocks for each, all sails in custom bags of sunbrella, all lines are color coded, below: new cushions (firmer than original), two gear hammocks, custom gear bags, porta-potti, Nicro water trap vent forward ground tackle: Danford anchor and rode, anchor roller mounted on bow with custom anchor bag, Navy style anchor extra comfort: custom boom tent with windwos forward, lee cloths, dodger electrical: electrical panet, stern light, wiring for interior and bow lights misc.: two whisker poles, boat hook, 3 cushions, spar fly, new bulkhead mounted compass, knot meter trailer: Trail Rite, new painted, radial tires, one spare on wheel, one spare unmounted, spare hub and parts, bearing buddies, custom motor carrier, spare tire carrier, 3 foot tongue extension ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 23 Aug 1998 09:53:35 -0700 Jerry, Okay on not being able to sail in my boat in more than 10 knots of wind. Well that won't interfere at all with the type of boating I practice. When I was a young lad I once went sailing with a friend and frankly the whole thing scared me to death! The type of boating I practice is, on a weekend, I don my Greek fisherman's cap and my whites, and roll the boat out into the driveway. I usually rig the boat and occasionally put up the sails also. Then I wait for a passerby to appear. Then I grab his lapels and tell him harrowing tales of my "exploits" which are many. The whole neighborhood is convinced that I'm quite a sailor. Once or twice a year, I actually hook the trailer up to my car and usually drive to a neighboring town, park it, and go see a movie or two. Later I return home with yet more stories to tell. The very idea of actually launching and sailing in a plastic toy is ridiculous! Dan -----Original Message----- >Dan > >After extensive experimentation I learned that beer makes a far better >catylist than MEK peroxide. That might explain the odor of beer in your >boat. Another possibility is your boat might be one of the ones that we >made when we ran out of ballast and we filled the keels with hundreds of >semi-empty beer bottles that had been laying out in the sun. Most of >the boats that we made on Mondays and Fridays were this way. But >they're OK as long as you don't take them out in more than about 10 >knots of wind! > >Jerry > >Dan Diehlman wrote: >> >> Jerry, >> In reading your directions on repairing minor faults on the Montgomerys >> one thing is rather evident!! >> My boat has always had a slight odor of flat beer. In mixing the resin >> during the layup process did the formula not only include the resin and >> hardener but also the ever present elixir? Did you use hand layup because no >> one could see well enough to use a chopper? >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: jerry montgomery >> To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >> >> Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 1:39 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: >> >> >Conbert H Benneck wrote: >> >> >> >> All right fellows >> >> >> >> If you are all drooling over potato pancakes, should I send you the >> >> recipe? >> >> >> >> It starts: peel 1700 lbs of potatos..... , but I can reduce it to more >> >> normal sized quantities also. >> >> >> >> At one of our early beer fests we had people standing in line for 1 and >> >> 1/2 hours to get potato pancakes!!!! We've improved the production since >> >> then! >> >> >> >> Jerry's helpful words of advice point me in the right direction for leak >> >> detecting, but as an engineer I am also concerned with all the variables >> >> that can get in the equation: >> >> such as: >> >> - beer Brand - domestic or imported? >> >> - beer temperature >> >> - beer consumption rate >> >> - to be drunk while standing normally waiting for the leak to show, or >> >> drunk while >> >> lying under the boat? >> >> - does the hour of the day of consumption play a role in the analysis >> >> >> >> Qustions, questions, questions: sheesh! >> >> >> >> Connie >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >> >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> > >> > >> >Hi Connie >> > >> >To help give an insight regarding leak-testing beer: >> > >> >The kind of beer doesn't matter a bit as long as it is cold. This takes >> >care of your first two questions. The fourth question is dependant on >> >the third; at a hi rate of consumption, it's best to lie down in order >> >to eliminate the possibility of falling down. However, if your >> >consumption rate is less than one oz. per minute you can probably get >> >away with standing up, at least for a while, but be careful about >> >bumping your head. I've found that it's best to go the high-consumption >> >way only because you can see the bottom of the boat better that way. I >> >guess it depends on your priorities. >> > >> >Jerry >> > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 23 Aug 1998 11:15:36 +0000 Hi Dan You've leaned my trick! Once was enuff for me also, but don't tell anyone. Did I ever tell you about my intrepid canoe racing? Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 23 Aug 1998 15:45:35 -0400 Lenny could you please contact me re your mail address and info on the bo= at you just bought...Larry Barkhuff former owner of M23 #001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 23 Aug 1998 18:30:25 EDT Larry Check your personal E-mail...............I sent a reply out the other day..........if you didn't get it let me know at AirEvacLen@aol.com. Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 23 Aug 1998 20:14:11 -0400 Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Lenny< Lenny I haven't seen anything direct to my e mail...several from and through the M network... Anyway, I have a list of all the owners of the 23's I was able to locate.= = You seem to be somewhat active in the M group...Would you be interested i= n continuing the effort. The list has the regular mail address and phone numbers for all but a couple of the current owners, yourself excluded, = Nick Honodel in Maryland is listed as #2. Thought I would inquire. LB = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 23 Aug 1998 20:20:24 EDT Larry I'd be proud to carry the torch..........use my E-mail address. AirEvacLen@aol.com. Thanks, Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Fell Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 23 Aug 1998 20:20:08 -0700 AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks John > Called them and they don't sell retail.....have to go through a dealer. Oh > well. > > Lenny > M-23 # 003 > Sea HorseLenny, Try contacting Bob Eeg at North Sea . Im sure he can help you since he is a builder. His Telephone # is 909-947-5012, If you have trouble let me know. I'll reach him for you. John M-15 # 126 Keiki ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Tsai Subject: RE: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 24 Aug 1998 08:22:25 -0700 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCF38.53B0DD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie, Thanks for the reply. I will certainly try to visit when I travel near = Moore county. Jeff -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 6:41 AM Jeff Tsai wrote: >=20 > I joined the list just last and remembered while browsing through the = archive, saw a Montgomery owner in Raleigh, NC by the name: Scot Bower. = I didn't find him in the phone book. >=20 > Does Scot still subscribe to the list or does anyone know if there are = any Montgomery owners in North Carolina? I have heard a lot about these = boats but have never seen one. >=20 > Jeff Hi, Jeff: Charlie Thompson here. I live on Echo Lake, Seven Lakes, N., West End, NC 27376. My Montgomery 15 is #298 and have had her since 1994. 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AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiF AAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAXNM= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCF38.53B0DD20-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Date: 24 Aug 1998 10:13:51 EDT John Silly me.................running around the block when all I have to do is cross the street........I have Bobs' E-mail address as well...........duh..................too much salt in the margaritas!!!!!!! Thanks Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Subject: M_Boats: unsubscribe Date: 24 Aug 1998 18:14:35 -0400 unsubscribe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 25 Aug 1998 20:53:48 -0400 Dan Your boating in 10 Kts of wind is right on. However, to wow the locals you really should have a tatoo or two and a parrot sitting on your shoulder. Then they'll know that your are a real old salt, and they can believe all the tales you tell. However, from my vast experience at marinas and truck stops, when you talk about the roaring 40s; the doldrums; the Falklands; Cape Verde Islands, the Malacca Straits, or even the English Channel, you should have an easel and a map on hand so that you can point out to the sidewalk superintendants where these places are located. When they see how far away that is from Fresno, then they will really be impressed. Also don't forget a few foreign references: always impresses the locals: the Mistral in the Med; the Scirocco in the Adriatic; the winter trades as you slipped along from the Canaries to Barbados; South Pacific reefs, and don't forget the man eating sharks. That's always good for a lot of gaping mouths, and oohing and aahing as you tell how you dove into the water to free the prop from the lobster pot warp and came face to face with a big white, which you frightened off by blowing a big air bubble at it..... I would like to take my M-15 in the bath tub with me, but my stairwell is too narrow to get it upstairs, and the tub too small to accomodate the M-15. Should I move to Dallas, where my daughter and son-in-law have a big swimming pool that could accomodate the M-15? By the way, what movies did you see in the neighboring town? Were they worth the trip and the time spent? Connie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: left off item from Kokopelli Date: 25 Aug 1998 21:04:55 EDT I left off that Kokopelli has a genniker. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 25 Aug 1998 22:34:00 -0500 (CDT) Hi Larry, Glad to see you are back on the M_Boat list. Must be drinking the water hasn't done you in. Well, I recently joined you as a former M23 owner. Our M23 is back in the southwest where she originated. I feel sad that no one in the midwest realized the value she offered. But Wes Hartman of Durango, CO did. He plans to launch her on Navaho Lake (on the Colorado/New Mexico border) this weekend. He has to go through a renaming ceremony first. He said the new name will be "Wayumi" which is a Venezuelan Indian word that means "the wanderer" or "to wander." I wish him and the M23 many happy years together. Wes said that he's had people stop by saying they heard there was a Lyle Hess designed boat in the area. One guy was a retired marine surveyor from New Jersey. Figure that one - on the high desert. As Tristan Jones said about sailors: "We are everywhere." We plan on doing a Lake Superior crossing this weekend (our first "big crossing" which is 45 nautical miles or so of open lake) if the weather will permit. This is in our Cape Dory 30 cutter. Carl Alberg was a respectable designer in his own right - but most of his boats don't speak to my heart like Lyle Hess's boats do. However, the CD30 seemed like a a natural progression from the M23. The M23 taught us a lot and prepared us for the bigger boats and bigger waters. The CD30 will do us fine until we win the lottery and get a NS37! In the mean time, I've used a couple of Lyle's tricks to make her sheer look a little livelier - and she is getting noticed. I'll let yawl know if I make it back! Randy P. M15 Oui-1 M7/11 On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Larry Barkhuff wrote: > I live in Boulder City and have been drinking water from Mead for more > years than I care to remember....What do you want to know.....Larry > Barkhuff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 25 Aug 1998 22:48:49 -0500 (CDT) Hi Lenny, Our M23 was hull number 88. Turns out there were two (2) [dos] hull number 88's. One was made in 1980 and ours was made in 1982. I've been told in radio code that 88 meant 'love and kisses.' Maybe that's what Jerry was up to when he was numbering the boats! Or maybe checking for leaks with the local brewski? Randy P. On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > Randy > Just wondering what # your M-23 was ( is ) ? > > Lenny > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 26 Aug 1998 00:39:33 EDT Randy, Sorry I never was able to hook-up and see your M23. So, a 45 mile passage on Superior, eh, where might you be steering, Copper Harbor? Let me know how you fair, I'm anxious to do a Superior passage myself. I wish you smooth sailing, with no "Bonnie" gales. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 25 Aug 1998 23:43:16 -0500 (CDT) Hi John, You raise a good question so I copied it to the M-Boat list. Maybe Larry Barkhuff will add a few notes. On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 Saltm17@aol.com wrote: > Randy, > > I've been curious about the M23 for a decade or more, but it seems owners sell > them more frequently that I would expect. Could you tell me why you sold > yours? > > John Edwards > "Miss T" > M17 273 > I can only speak for myself. We had the boat for about six years, which was two to three times longer than any boat up to that point. The M23 was the first of the boats I really "owned." Each of the previous boats was on loan from the bank until I got it paid off and then used the money to leverage myself to the next boat. I planned on doing some redesign of the interior of the M23 and keep her for several more years but plans changed rather suddenly and we bought a nice, freshwater Cape Dory 30 cutter for a good price. When we bought the M23 I had visions of trailering her to Puget Sound, the west coast of Florida, the coast of Maine, etc. But a heavy dose of reality set in. Neither my wife nor I can get away for any length of time during the summer and with kids in school the winters were not much easier. We foung the M23 was not a boat you haul to the lake for the afternoon and return home that evening. She is trailerable but you really want to have a week or more of sailing to make the effort worth it. For the short trips (regattas, two or three days out) we figured a smaller boat would do better and we bought a M15 for those purposes. No one boat fits every situation. We reached a point on the lake we were on where we wanted to leave (the racing crowd at the club was getting ridiculous - one guy owned two Melges 24's!) and we were tiring of daysailing around "the Island" and going home. If we were closer to Green Bay we'd probalby still own the boat because we have friends who have moorings there and it would have been a good setting for the M23. We talked about renting a slip on Lake Pepin (Mississippi River) and had reservations made. But something else was going on. We sailed a few times with some friends in the Apostle Islands of Lake Superior. The thing is - we got hooked. The M23 would take much of what we've encountered there but the comfort level and safety factor becomes a big concern on that COLD lake. My wife fell in love with the interior arrangement of our friend's CD30 and that is ultimately what we bought. WE made the decision that we would get a non-trailerable boat to use as our "second home" as we don't have the two or three week breaks needed to drive to Seattle and back and still have a fun trip. Our weekends are our mini-vacations. The environment on the lake is so different than our home that is does seem like each weekend is a vacation (we'll spend close to 30 weekends on her this year). We still have the M15 for shorter jaunts or if the time opens up to travel she's very capable. It was hard to sell the M23 and we may regret the decision some day in the future. Right now it was the best decision for us. With the M17 you have many of the advantages of both the M23 and the M15. If trailering isn't a big necessity for you or if you have the time to travel while towing a larger boat, the M23 is really a lot more boat to sail. She has more storage space and you can actually enjoy a rainy day inside while reading a book. You'll need a larger vehicle if you don't have one. That became an issue for us - we had a full- sized Bronco that we were only putting a couple hundred miles a year on yet had to be maintained and insured. I don't like big vehicles and was glad to see it go. So you see there are many factors that go into boat buying/selling decisions. If we retire early and decide that a large trailer-sailor is the way to go in the future we may look at the Nor'Sea 23 or Nor'Sea 27 rather seriously. Or maybe we'll win that perverbial lottery ticket and get a Nor'Sea 37 and sail to Tahiti and not come back. Oh, the decisions involved with that move! Maybe to more directly answer you question. The M23 is a great boat that has a few flaws that may have disappeared if Jerry had made a hundred of them. Everything becomes a compromise on a small boat. I have given (and will continue to give) Bob Eeg lots of encouragement and ideas on how to make some improvements to the boat. I wouldn't do that if I didn't truly love our M23. But our sailing has entered a new era and our needs/wants are different now. And "our" M23 has a new life in a new area. I hope I answered your question. Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 25 Aug 1998 23:43:16 -0500 (CDT) Hi John, You raise a good question so I copied it to the M-Boat list. Maybe Larry Barkhuff will add a few notes. On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 Saltm17@aol.com wrote: > Randy, > > I've been curious about the M23 for a decade or more, but it seems owners sell > them more frequently that I would expect. Could you tell me why you sold > yours? > > John Edwards > "Miss T" > M17 273 > I can only speak for myself. We had the boat for about six years, which was two to three times longer than any boat up to that point. The M23 was the first of the boats I really "owned." Each of the previous boats was on loan from the bank until I got it paid off and then used the money to leverage myself to the next boat. I planned on doing some redesign of the interior of the M23 and keep her for several more years but plans changed rather suddenly and we bought a nice, freshwater Cape Dory 30 cutter for a good price. When we bought the M23 I had visions of trailering her to Puget Sound, the west coast of Florida, the coast of Maine, etc. But a heavy dose of reality set in. Neither my wife nor I can get away for any length of time during the summer and with kids in school the winters were not much easier. We foung the M23 was not a boat you haul to the lake for the afternoon and return home that evening. She is trailerable but you really want to have a week or more of sailing to make the effort worth it. For the short trips (regattas, two or three days out) we figured a smaller boat would do better and we bought a M15 for those purposes. No one boat fits every situation. We reached a point on the lake we were on where we wanted to leave (the racing crowd at the club was getting ridiculous - one guy owned two Melges 24's!) and we were tiring of daysailing around "the Island" and going home. If we were closer to Green Bay we'd probalby still own the boat because we have friends who have moorings there and it would have been a good setting for the M23. We talked about renting a slip on Lake Pepin (Mississippi River) and had reservations made. But something else was going on. We sailed a few times with some friends in the Apostle Islands of Lake Superior. The thing is - we got hooked. The M23 would take much of what we've encountered there but the comfort level and safety factor becomes a big concern on that COLD lake. My wife fell in love with the interior arrangement of our friend's CD30 and that is ultimately what we bought. WE made the decision that we would get a non-trailerable boat to use as our "second home" as we don't have the two or three week breaks needed to drive to Seattle and back and still have a fun trip. Our weekends are our mini-vacations. The environment on the lake is so different than our home that is does seem like each weekend is a vacation (we'll spend close to 30 weekends on her this year). We still have the M15 for shorter jaunts or if the time opens up to travel she's very capable. It was hard to sell the M23 and we may regret the decision some day in the future. Right now it was the best decision for us. With the M17 you have many of the advantages of both the M23 and the M15. If trailering isn't a big necessity for you or if you have the time to travel while towing a larger boat, the M23 is really a lot more boat to sail. She has more storage space and you can actually enjoy a rainy day inside while reading a book. You'll need a larger vehicle if you don't have one. That became an issue for us - we had a full- sized Bronco that we were only putting a couple hundred miles a year on yet had to be maintained and insured. I don't like big vehicles and was glad to see it go. So you see there are many factors that go into boat buying/selling decisions. If we retire early and decide that a large trailer-sailor is the way to go in the future we may look at the Nor'Sea 23 or Nor'Sea 27 rather seriously. Or maybe we'll win that perverbial lottery ticket and get a Nor'Sea 37 and sail to Tahiti and not come back. Oh, the decisions involved with that move! Maybe to more directly answer you question. The M23 is a great boat that has a few flaws that may have disappeared if Jerry had made a hundred of them. Everything becomes a compromise on a small boat. I have given (and will continue to give) Bob Eeg lots of encouragement and ideas on how to make some improvements to the boat. I wouldn't do that if I didn't truly love our M23. But our sailing has entered a new era and our needs/wants are different now. And "our" M23 has a new life in a new area. I hope I answered your question. Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: M-17 for sale Date: 26 Aug 1998 11:07:35 EDT M17 in good shape with complete inventory for sale. 1978 swing keel model, with Trailrite trailer. Three berth model, with galley sink to port. Main, Working Jib, Genoa, PFDs, anchor, whisker pole, electrical package, PortaPotti, bulkhead mounted compass and knotmeter. Transom mounted swim ladder, masthead windvane, Harken traveler gear. Located Kansas City area. $5000. E-Mail TEHowe@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Additional Equipment Date: 26 Aug 1998 11:15:11 EDT I forgot to post the following additional equipment for my M17 for sale: Johnson 4hp Sailmaster outboard with external gas tank Telescoping tiller extension Canoe paddle 4 fenders ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:43:22 -0400 Chuck I live in Boulder City, and don't have a Mont now, I just sold M23 #001 to a terrific couple in Oregon. I own a boat sales yard in Fort Lauderdale Fla, and we sell mostly used powerboats. Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:43:38 -0400 John, I received the forward of your note to Randy about the 23. lA few= comments from the desert..... I sold my 23 really because my wife did not enjoy spending as much time o= n it as I did...I often went to work at 0400 and by 0800 or so I was basically finished with the tasks at hand. So off to the boat I would go....I kept it in a slip on Lake Mead, and the winds here are very fickle.....I usually put up the main with a reef and a small jib, and wen= t out and read books or played music... I also had the tow vehicle, but it is old so the cost wasn't a factor, as= much as just moving the boat from place to place was a large project, and= if I went it needed to be for a couple weeks.. I went to Santa Barbara Calif, for one of my son's track meets last year and kicked myself in the butt for hours, because I should have taken the boat there and left it. What a fantastic place...How I missed knowing about it and the water there I don't know...Now I know why my son wants t= o stay there and never come home... The 23 is a terrific boat, and by the way, I have a carry on AC unit, bra= nd new, if anyone is interested. I installed built in AC on the the Chris Craft so I don't \need the portable..... When I bought this boat I had looked for a couple years sort of half heartedly, and then put a post in the sailing forum...The response was ju= st short of amazing...Lots of folks wrote about how hard it was to find one,= = they had one and regretted selling, etc....I got lucky...and then this forum got going. Now you hear about more of the boats being sold becaus= e so many of us are in touch.. Before they only sold to a friend....kThink= about it, have you ever seen an ad for a 23 for sale in Cruising World? = Harvey turned me on to a fellow in Florida who had one for sale when I wa= s thinking about getting another one. It is now one that I do not have the= name or address of the new owner, but I think it is in the Tampa Fla area= =2E Someone said a few months ago that a 17 or a 15 is a small/big boat. A 2= 3 is really a small yacht. That is my 2 cents, for what it is worth.....Larry Barkhuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:43:35 -0400 Randy I know how you felt about the boats, in fact, they all have a strange effect on us.....I am going back to Fort Lauderdale in a couple weeks and put the Chris in the water just to sleep on it and go do a litt= le diving. Got to play a golf tournament on the 4th of Sept in Phoenix, and= then head for the Carrib.......Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:43:38 -0400 John, I received the forward of your note to Randy about the 23. lA few= comments from the desert..... I sold my 23 really because my wife did not enjoy spending as much time o= n it as I did...I often went to work at 0400 and by 0800 or so I was basically finished with the tasks at hand. So off to the boat I would go....I kept it in a slip on Lake Mead, and the winds here are very fickle.....I usually put up the main with a reef and a small jib, and wen= t out and read books or played music... I also had the tow vehicle, but it is old so the cost wasn't a factor, as= much as just moving the boat from place to place was a large project, and= if I went it needed to be for a couple weeks.. I went to Santa Barbara Calif, for one of my son's track meets last year and kicked myself in the butt for hours, because I should have taken the boat there and left it. What a fantastic place...How I missed knowing about it and the water there I don't know...Now I know why my son wants t= o stay there and never come home... The 23 is a terrific boat, and by the way, I have a carry on AC unit, bra= nd new, if anyone is interested. I installed built in AC on the the Chris Craft so I don't \need the portable..... When I bought this boat I had looked for a couple years sort of half heartedly, and then put a post in the sailing forum...The response was ju= st short of amazing...Lots of folks wrote about how hard it was to find one,= = they had one and regretted selling, etc....I got lucky...and then this forum got going. Now you hear about more of the boats being sold becaus= e so many of us are in touch.. Before they only sold to a friend....kThink= about it, have you ever seen an ad for a 23 for sale in Cruising World? = Harvey turned me on to a fellow in Florida who had one for sale when I wa= s thinking about getting another one. It is now one that I do not have the= name or address of the new owner, but I think it is in the Tampa Fla area= =2E Someone said a few months ago that a 17 or a 15 is a small/big boat. A 2= 3 is really a small yacht. That is my 2 cents, for what it is worth.....Larry Barkhuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:22:12 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Larry Barkhuff wrote: > > Someone said a few months ago that a 17 or a 15 is a small/big boat. A 23 > is really a small yacht. > There lies the 'big danger' of the M23. You get a feel for a bigger keel boat and you want to go farther and spend more time and next thing you know you've mortgaged your house for a bluewater cruiser. Let it be known that you were warned. Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: M23_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:32:49 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Michael L Bowden wrote: > Randy, > > Sorry I never was able to hook-up and see your M23. > So, a 45 mile passage on Superior, eh, where might you be steering, > Copper Harbor? > Let me know how you fair, I'm anxious to do a Superior passage myself. > I wish you smooth sailing, with no "Bonnie" gales. > Hi Bones, We are planning a trip to Grand Marais, MN. We sailed to Black River Harbor a few weeks ago and got initiated to the idea of sailing beyond the sight of land (it was hazy otherwise you can see the hills in Michigan the whole way). This trip is the next step for us. We hope to follow up with a trip to Grand Marais, Isle Royale and Copper Harbor next summer. One small step at a time for us semi-chicken landlubbers. Let hope the "gales of November" don't come early on the big lake they call Gitchi Gumi. There is a M23 in Isle, MN if you really want to see one. Let me know and I'll dig out the phone number. Randy P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: M_Boats: Trailer for my 23 Date: 26 Aug 1998 23:30:14 EDT Larry If you own a boat sales yard in Ft. Lauderdale, can you get me a deal on a new trailer from Load Rite ? I'm shopping around for one and I'm close enough to Ca. to pick it up and avoid the shipping cost. Just need a dealer to set up the deal as they don't sell retail. I have two quotes from shops here in Phoenix. The Sailboat Shop, and Arizona Yachts.............. Wadda ya think ?? Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 26 Aug 1998 23:31:43 EDT Larry Ah-h-h yes............but what a way to go....... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 26 Aug 1998 23:44:34 EDT Larry What kind of price are you looking at for the A/C unit...........I could get spoiled REAL quick...... Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ed florence Subject: M_Boats: M-15 for sale Date: 26 Aug 1998 17:16:56 -0700 (PDT) hello- I have owned "Whistle", my 1986 M-15 for 7 years, but the time has come to sell. She is fully equipped with main, jib, and a spinnaker that sort of fits. Also, a 2 hp johnson seahorse, anchor, pfd's, fenders, and a trailrite trailer. Asking $3750. Would like to hear any one else's experiences with reefing the jib on an M-15. e-mail: edflorence@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: suthdrug@rosenet.net Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Date: 27 Aug 1998 14:57:39 GMT Greetings! My name is Ian Black and I'm looking into buying an M-17. I was hoping somebody out there might have the specs on boats circa 79-82. I'm wondering about displacement, ballast, draft, trailer weight, sail area, etc. I would also like to know of any problems I might want to look for before purchase. Thanks, Ian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 Date: 27 Aug 1998 11:59:18 EDT Ian Just have to watch the list for the best deal on an M-17............several models to chose from..............In my HUMBLE opinion, there's not a better boat going.......... Lenny Previous owner M-17 # 36 Present owner M-23 # 003 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 27 Aug 1998 20:01:22 EDT Hi Randy, Thanks for the reply. Yes, I would like to view that M23 in Isle. I'll be up north next week sailing Gull Lake (9400 acres). There is also a Nor'Sea 27 for sale in Little Falls, Mn. I would love to closely examine that boat. I have heard such wonderful reports about Bob Eeg's blue-water sloop. You mentioned the NS 23, is Bob working on making that a reality? What a nice slot to fill between the M17 and his NS27. This is the first summer in about 10 years I haven't sailed Superior. I miss it. Good luck, keep in touch. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: M_Boats: Fw: My rookie year Date: 28 Aug 1998 15:33:55 -0600 ---------- > From: Steve Alm > To: Keith Diehl > Subject: My rookie year > Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 2:48 PM > > Ahoy! > We purchased M-15 #787 in April of this, my rookie year of boat owning. I've sailed before but MOONDANCE is my first sail boat. She's docked on Lake Minnetonka near Minneapolis, MN. We had an early Spring so we've already had a long and wonderful sailing season--and lots more to go! I discovered this site just last week and am pretty excited to be able to exchange ideas and questions with y'all. Great going Keith! > First question: I get a little water in the bilge when she heels over. I assume it comes up through the trunk. Is this a common problem with M boats? Can anything be done? > Second question: There is a pair of blocks right at the bow with corresponding fairleads and jam cleats at the port combing. I'm using one for the jib reefing tack so I can reef down without leaving the cockpit. What's the other one for? > Third question: Where can I get a good deal on a main sail cover? > Final (and perhaps most important) question: Others have reported a faint smell of beer...mine smells like rum. Am I doing something wrong? > > -- > This e-mail was generated from your home page; the e-mail address > "Steve Alm " > may be incorrect. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: 2nd Nantucket attempt Date: 28 Aug 1998 17:39:37 -0400 The M15 continues to impress me. Last year I had planned at trip from Chatham MA to Nantucket and due to c= ar problems and strong winds I didn't make the trip. The strong Cape Cod winds convinced me to add a second reef pt in the main and buy a storm Ji= b. This year I had to be in MA on 8/22 so I planned another trip to Nantucke= t only from Hyannis MA. I had planned to launch on Sunday, 8/23, and leave= for Nantucket on Monday. Well I launched on Sunday with a forcast for winds of 20 - 25 kts for the next three days so I gave up on Nantucket. I= t is 30 km with a 1 kt current, changing with the tides, in Nantucket sound= =2E I sailed out of the cove where the ramp is with full main and the= std working jib. I had to take a reef on the first open area. I fought the strong gusts until we cleared the Hyannisport harbor. The seas = outside the harbor were running 3 - 5 ft with gusts to 20 kts. I changed= to the storm jib with the tiller tied off and the main sheet cleated for= a beam reach. It was a nice ride on the little bow of the M15. On Monday the steady winds were up to 25 kts with gusts to 30kts,= waves were 4 - 6 ft. I spent the day with a double reefed main and storm= jib and at thirty kts even this seemed like a lot. On Tuesday it was more of the same except the waves were now 5 - = 7 ft. I followed a J24 which only had a reefed main and was towing a Zodiac. I was making 3.5 kts according to the GPS and was rapidily gaini= ng on the J24. The winds were geting lighter, back to 20 kts, and the J24 raised his jib and left me in the dust. When I was returning to the harbor, pilot error struck. I was bus= y checking lat and long on the GPS against the position of the channel bouy= s and I ignored a major sized frieght ferry(200 - 300 ft LOL) coming out of= the channel. When I did notice him I moved outside the channel but staye= d close to the edge of the channel even though there was plenty of water depth for an M15. I was on the inside of a 70 deg turn in the channel. Th= e ferry made the left hand turn the channel required and past with 70 yds = to spare but what a wake!!! The wake was a 6 - 7ft high square wave with on= ly about 10 ft crest to crest. The M15steered directly into the wave and cleared the first crest without taking a drop. The impact however slid t= he hatch part way open and when the next wave came we were pointing down hil= l as we hit and the boat played submarine for a 1/2 second. The wave crest= covered the entire boat and its captain. Can you picture a wave with 1/= 3 of an M15 sticking out each side with the center 1/3 covered in foam!! N= o damage done but I will not make that mistake again. The forcast for Wed. was 25 - 35 kts with rain and Thurday was fo= r = 30 - 40 kts with gusts to 50 kts. I there fore left for home. "Seas the Day" is proving itself to be capable of handling far rougher conditions than it's owner and I guess the way it should be. P.S. - I bumped into Larry Brown ( famous small boat cruising author) at the launching ramp. He was taking his 16 ft crusing boat "Brendon" out of the water to avoid the Hurricane rush if it came. I got= a tour of his 6ft standing head room with a queen size v berth. Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wilsometer@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: My rookie year Date: 28 Aug 1998 18:29:27 EDT Steve, Congratulations on your purchase of MOONDANCE. I have had my M15, #478 (1991) "Bebe" for three years, and have owned/sailed larger boats. For me, the M15 is the perfect compromise. We just returned from three weeks sailing (more motoring actually) in British Columbia. It was great fun to come into an anchorage late in the day after everyone else had rushed to secure a safe anchorage and head for the thin water where other boats would not dare condsider dropping the hook. We sailed in tandem with Bert Felton and his M15 "Kokopelli". I think we attracted more attention than the 100-200 foot mega- yachts anchored in some coves! I wonder about your hull number (#787). Mine, a 1991, is #478, and the latest I have heard of is #515 as is evidenced by a the following excerpt from an earlier posting: "Our M15 was built in June 1993 (hull #515). I believe there were two or three in the works after that before Jerry decided to go play full time. Right big J.M_?" Anyway, I am sure you will have many happy times on MOONDANCE regardless of her birthday! As for your questions: <> You might want to look at the archives--someone else was asking the very same question just a week or so ago. I believe you will find a response from Jerry Montgomery on the same. I have not had this problem, so I will steer clear of comment. << Second question: There is a pair of blocks right at the bow with corresponding fairleads and jam cleats at the port combing. I'm using one for the jib reefing tack so I can reef down without leaving the cockpit. What's the other one for?>> This one I can address. The second block/lead/cleat setup is for a jib downhaul--a very welcome feature as it allows you do drop the jib from the comfort (and safety of the cockpit). I think these were standard on the later M15's. I employ mine by attaching a small shackle to the headstay just above the top jib hank, and it works perfectly. I tried attaching it to the head cringle, but it caused the top hank to bind on the way down. To dowse the jib, I merely sheet the jib slightly to windward, uncleat the jib halyard (mine is led aft to port of companionway to a clamcleat), and haul in on the downhaul. Try it, you'll like it! << Third question: Where can I get a good deal on a main sail cover?>> I have looked around a bit and been dissapointed with what I found. The ones offered by Boat US or West Marine are expensive--too expensive considering I had quotes for a custom made one come in lower--and seem to me a compromise in terms of fit. Sailrite (Sail and canvas kit manufacturer/retailer) sells kits or made covers to your specs. A friend (Bert Felton--maestro of canvas) took an old cover and cut it down to size for me. It works great. Someday, when I have to have matching color canvas, I think I will make my own. I strongly recommend Sunbrella brand "canvas." It lasts nearly forever, and can be had in a staggering array of colors. Expect to pay $13-$16/yard for 42" width. **Also, if you still have the boltrope luff on your main, you might wish to make/have made a cover that will accomodate slugs. I thought I would be happy with the boltrope (more aerodynamic, faster, etc.), but after this last trip, I have had it with constantly trying to flake or roll the main. <> You might have to consult the former owner. Maybe the ghost of an old seaman has taken up residence? Happy sailing, and looking forward to hearing of your adventures! Scott Grometer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: 2nd Nantucket attempt Date: 28 Aug 1998 19:37:05 EDT Doug If any one thing is true of M boats .............we give up long before they do......... Lenny former m-17 # 36 present m-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: M-17 Date: 28 Aug 1998 23:21:29 -0400 Hi Ian.. If you have a fax, I can fax a copy of the brochure to you. Harvey/ Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: suthdrug@rosenet.net Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-17 Date: 29 Aug 1998 06:13:21 GMT > Hi Ian.. > > If you have a fax, I can fax a copy of the brochure to you. > > Harvey/ Atl > > M-17 Stargazer #294 > > Dear Harvey, Thanks ! My fax number is (541)459-9129. The brochure would be a great help. Ian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan Harstad Subject: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 29 Aug 1998 19:55:03 +0000 I am looking for a small used sailboat, and there are a 3 montgomery 17's in my area. One of which looks like it is in good shape. I like the boat, except for the fake lap construction on the hull. It seems that this would make the bottom harder to maintain. Especially if you had to sand it for some reason. Does anyone have any comments on this? How well does the Montgomery sail? I am NOT looking for a race boat, but I also don't want to use the engine all the time. Bryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dick Allgire Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 29 Aug 1998 19:13:23 -0700 >I am looking for a small used sailboat, and there are a 3 montgomery >17's in my >area. One of which looks like it is in good shape. > >I like the boat, except for the fake lap construction on the hull. It >seems that this would make the bottom harder to maintain. Especially >if you had to sand it for some reason. > >Does anyone have any comments on this? > >How well does the Montgomery sail? I am NOT looking for a race boat, >but I also don't >want to use the engine all the time. > >Bryan You couldn't get a better boat thAN A MONTGOMERY...THEY ARE BUILT TO LAST AND THEYSAIL LIKE A DREAM COME TRUE. The one I sail was built in l974 and she's still going strong in Great Salt Lake. Thi s is the second lapstrake boat I've had and wouln dn't want anything else despite the maintance problem....which just requires a bit more work but is well worthit in sailing and strength qualities. BUY ONE AND sail circles around anything near it's size except a cast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan Harstad Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 29 Aug 1998 21:49:50 +0000 Currently my choices would be: Compac 16-Its a little bit on the small side, also kind of short and squat, probably doesn't sail very fast. Capri 18 Comapc 19 I'm still concedering the following: Seaward Fox 19-I haven't had a chance to really look at one yet. The cock pit looks kind of small. Montgomery 17-I would have probably bought it by now, except for the lap construction concern that I have. Dick Allgire wrote: > >I am looking for a small used sailboat, and there are a 3 montgomery > >17's in my > >area. One of which looks like it is in good shape. > > > >I like the boat, except for the fake lap construction on the hull. It > >seems that this would make the bottom harder to maintain. Especially > >if you had to sand it for some reason. > > > >Does anyone have any comments on this? > > > >How well does the Montgomery sail? I am NOT looking for a race boat, > >but I also don't > >want to use the engine all the time. > > > >Bryan > You couldn't get a better boat thAN A MONTGOMERY...THEY ARE BUILT TO LAST > AND THEYSAIL LIKE A DREAM COME TRUE. The one I sail was built in l974 and > she's still going strong in Great Salt Lake. Thi s is the second lapstrake > boat I've had and wouln > dn't want anything else despite the maintance problem....which just > requires a bit more work but is well worthit in sailing and strength > qualities. BUY ONE AND sail circles around anything near it's size except > a cast. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 29 Aug 1998 23:03:12 -0400 Hi bryan... "What Keith said" goes for me as well, and most of us here. I drove 700 miles to get my 1979 M-17, and I know of 3 others who drove farther then that to get their M-15's. The lapstrake hull makes for a stronger hull, so it's said, but I'm no naval architech, so can only pass that on. I've owned my M-17 for over 2 years, and am looking at a 25 footer. The M-17 _stays_ if I get it. I don't know how many sails comes with your boat..mine came with every one listed, and sails better then I can. A friend who races J-24's loves to take her out with the spinnaker when he just wants to sail for fun. It's no slug in lighter air, but I've never sailed it against something comparable like a Capri 18. I don't think you'd be sorry if you bought it.. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 29 Aug 1998 23:42:12 EDT Bryan What Harvery in Atlanta says goes for me too !!!!!!!!!!! I owned a 17 for 3 years and never once regretted it..........They are stiff boats that handle well and make sailing a pleasureable experience. By the way, I liked the 17 so much, I bought an M-23....one of the few in "captivity ". Lenny M-23 # 003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vaughn.Austring@MSB.Mat-Su.k12.ak.us (Vaughn Austring) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 29 Aug 1998 22:56:52 -0800 Bryan, From the South to the North, we love our Montgomery's. Whether day-sailing on the lake and mixing it up with the other boats, or cruising Kenai Fjords and mixing it up with the whales and ice bergs, I'm comfortable with Jonquille, my 13 year old M17. You do have to dress for the weather, but if you're looking at boats in this size range, I'm sure you realize that already. Vaughn Jonquille, M17 #396 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vaughn.Austring@MSB.Mat-Su.k12.ak.us (Vaughn Austring) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Winch parts for ARCO 6 wanted Date: 29 Aug 1998 23:02:13 -0800 One of Jonquille's winches has a broken pawl. Anyone know where I can get parts for ARCO 6 winches? Vaughn Jonquille, M17 #396 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: M_Boats: Trailer for my 23 Date: 30 Aug 1998 12:32:52 -0400 Trail Rite is a west coast thing, and most of ours are aluminum EZ on and= Load Rite.....You don't want to pay to have an alum trlr built custom....= LB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: M23 Date: 30 Aug 1998 12:32:54 -0400 RE the AC unit, they list for $629 in catalog,, make me any reasonable offer...LB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: M_Boats: Re: M23_Boats: Lake Mead Date: 30 Aug 1998 12:37:00 -0400 Randy, do you have the addressand vital info for the new owner so I can update the "list".....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SAlm111@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Hull numbers Date: 30 Aug 1998 13:12:36 EDT Hi Scott...thanks for your comments. The hull number stamped on the transom is a long one that starts with the letters MMPI. I assume that has nothing to do with the Minnesota Multi-phasic Personality Inventory test. (It would be interesting however to collect the results of M-boat owners MMPI tests.) I just thought that the last three digits were what every body's using. Mine is a 1987 model and the last three numbers are 787 but maybe somebody can straighten me out on this. Right now there is a 15 knot wind on Lake Minnetonka..gotta go...bye M-15 MOONDANCE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dick Allgire Subject: M_Boats: About that Capsize in GSL Date: 30 Aug 1998 15:12:37 -0700 Wonder if anyone has talked to the skipper of the West Wight Potter that capsizedf a week ago in Great Salt Lake to get details of just what happened and why......we who sail GSL could learn a lot......was the boat to small and too light for the weather conditions.....were the hatches and access to the cabin closed....was it swamped or did it really just get knocked down by wind and waves ....did the skippoer have any warning of bad weather.....could he have avoided if he had.......answers to all this might help keep others out trouble on GSL...even those of us who have sailed GSL for a long time can still learn from this accident. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Re:M_Boat A/C unit Date: 30 Aug 1998 17:13:24 EDT Sure Larry, make me the " heavy "...hehe....... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer for my 23 Date: 30 Aug 1998 17:14:46 EDT Larry That's for sure....I got a line on a pretty good deal from Az Yachts........... thanks for the reply though. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: About that Capsize in GSL Date: 30 Aug 1998 17:19:38 EDT Maybe Keith in GSL can find out more for us . Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dick Allgire Subject: Re: M_Boats: About that Capsize in GSL Date: 30 Aug 1998 16:04:18 -0700 >Maybe Keith in GSL can find out more for us . Sure hope so. > >Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: About that Capsize in GSL Date: 30 Aug 1998 18:29:34 EDT ...potter website says this was a catalina 22 that left dockw.sails up...and weighted centerboard up too...so no leverage...press got it wrong!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 30 Aug 1998 21:09:32 -0400 >>>Compac 16-Its a little bit on the small side, also kind of short and squat, probably doesn't sail very fast. Capri 18 Comapc 19<<< Of these choices, the Capri 18 is the best. The Compacs are heavy for their size, and slow in all but stronger winds. They have shoal draft keels, so they don't go to windward very well (unless your C-16 is the newer CB model) Connie had a C-16 and he's happy as a cat in a field of catnip over how well his M-15 sails compared to the C-16...and it weighs 75 lbs. vs 1100 for the C-16. He also says that it has more storage then the C-16. The Capri 18 compares very closely to the M-17 in weight and sail area, but lacks the shoal keel with centerboard that the M-17 has. The Capri comes with a fin keel, or shorter wing keel..also called a danford keel by those unlucky enough to go aground on a muddy bottom. Since you have a dislike for the lapstrake hull design, you might look int a precision 18. Made in Florida, it was my 2nd choice if my M-17 didn't pan out. Harvey/Atl M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: 2nd Nantucket attempt Date: 30 Aug 1998 22:02:57 -0400 re. Doug's experience: "The impact however slid the hatch part way open and when the next wave came we were pointing down hill as we hit and the boat played submarine for a 1/2 second." This is a good lesson. Even when conditions seem benign, if there is significant wave action, close it up tight! For Bryan: On Memorial Day weekend, 1998, I drove 1300 miles (Pittsburgh to Houston, one way mileage) to "deliver" my 1982 M15. The more I sail it, the more I realize what a good decision it was. Montgomery boats sail well! Yesterday I saw an attrractive looking boat, maybe 1/2 - 3/4 mile up wind, and headed closer to see what it was. Turned out to be a 23 footer, a make I hadn't heard of, but I chased it down and caught it within about 2 miles. Granted, it was sailed by a family with 3 children, but it appeared to be handled capably. How many 15' cabin boats could do that? Bill Riker, M-15 #184 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DoorAriel@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 30 Aug 1998 22:56:20 EDT Lapstrake hull is great. Strengthens and stiffens hull, acts as spray deflector, and looks very salty. Boat gets lots of attention because of the lapstrake. Also, the lapstrake actually makes it easier to repair surface blemishes on the hull. My M17 hull has a two part epoxy paint job -- very durable and good looking. If I get a ding in it, I can sand and repaint just one of the "strakes" -- no need to do the whole hull as long as I have the same paint available. Boat is very fast and handles like a much larger boat. No need to be embarrassed about the performance of the M17. I love to get into informal races, even with larger boats, because I usually win. My 170% genoa is like an afterburner! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SAlm111@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 30 Aug 1998 23:32:11 EDT I wasn't going to invest in a genoa because my M-15 is such a great light air boat to start with. But something tells me that a 170% would really make her jump up and almost plane. LMK if you do it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bryan Harstad Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 30 Aug 1998 23:53:58 +0000 DoorAriel@aol.com wrote: > If I get a ding in it, I can sand and repaint just > one of the "strakes" -- no need to do the whole hull as long as I have the > same paint available. I have thought about the above bonus of lapstrake. When I posted my first message about M17's, there were alot of responses from Minneapolis area. I live in Eden Prairie, this weekend I drove out to lake Waconia, and walked the docks looking at different types of sail boats. I saw 2 M17's at dock. Would anyone be interested in giving me a tour of their boats, and pointing out things to check on when looking for a used M17? Bryan Harstad (612) 906 0076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vaughn.Austring@MSB.Mat-Su.k12.ak.us (Vaughn Austring) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hull numbers Date: 31 Aug 1998 01:10:14 -0800 The first 3 characters in the hull number are the manufacturer's id code. The next 5 are the serial number. The last 4 encode the date of certification or manufacture and the model year. The format and info in the last 4 characters changed about 1984; see http://www.tcmall.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html for more info. It seems that our m-boats use the model as the first 2 digits of the serial number, followed by a three digit hull number. Vaughn Jonquille M17 #396 (MMP17396C585, a 1985 Montgomery 17, hull #396, manufactured in March of '85) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles R. Thompson" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery boat owner in North Carolina Date: 31 Aug 1998 08:37:32 -0400 TOMMYVAL@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Charlie, > > Just an update for you, we have a couple of M boats getting together the > weekend of > 9/12/98 in Solomons, Md. Nick is coming down in his 23 and we should have 2 > 17's > and a couple of 15's as well. Maybe get together Thursday nite and depart on > sunday > As usual all M boaters are invited. > > Jerry and Debi if you see this we sure would like to see you too. anyone can > give me a call at work 703-318-8138. Thanks > > Gary Valetti Hi Garry: Thanks for the kind invitation. Sorry, but I cannot go this time. Twould be fun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Question about montgomery '17 Date: 31 Aug 1998 15:50:07 -0400 >I like the boat, except for the fake lap construction on the hull My M-15 has the same type of construction. Aesthetically, it's up to you whether it's good or bad (I vote for good), but it does add stiffness to the hull, and I also believe that the many tiny chines have a smoothing effect on the motion. Look at it this way: It can't do any harm (you can't see it when you're sailing), and it does some good. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: M_Boats: M23 Date: 31 Aug 1998 14:25:15 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD4EB.2BEE9120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Group, Does anyone out there have the M23 brochure, and a scanner? If so I = would certainly appreciate a copy. Thanks, Dan ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD4EB.2BEE9120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Group,
    Does anyone out = there have=20 the M23 brochure, and a scanner? If so I would certainly appreciate a=20 copy.
   =20 Thanks,     Dan
 
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD4EB.2BEE9120-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jslubliner@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hello Montgomery owners. Date: 31 Aug 1998 23:22:47 EDT Agreed - Our M-17 is a bit different, being one of the few flush-decks, but under the water, we are the same boat - and without a 150 & 170, it can be a long day on the water. On light days with short crew, a larger headsail is a must. To enjoy your toy to the fullest, a 150 is your first investment. I also suggest you consider a 130. It will allow you to point well in higher winds while staying on your feet. We probably don't sail as much as many of you guys that are closer to water, but when us Southern Arizona guys do find time to sail, we savor the moments. On Coyote, we carry a 110, 130, 150, 170 along with 1/2oz & 3/4 oz spinnakers - this is a 1975 boat and I've never owned a higher quality toy. The larger sail inventory makes for lots more quality time. If you find a good sailmaker, they will stand behind their product and you will be a satisfied customer. don't cut corners here. John, Anne & Coyote ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: value of used sailboats Date: 31 Aug 1998 23:32:52 EDT ...does anyone know of a source for establishing the value of used sailboats??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: value of used sailboats Date: 31 Aug 1998 21:43:31 -0700 Grove777@aol.com wrote: > > ...does anyone know of a source for establishing the value of used > sailboats??? Yes, the BUC books, (www.bucnet.com) the 1998 copies are in the Port Townsend Wa library but held as reference books. Dick M23 Sadhana ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: value of used sailboats Date: 31 Aug 1998 21:43:31 -0700 Grove777@aol.com wrote: > > ...does anyone know of a source for establishing the value of used > sailboats??? Yes, the BUC books, (www.bucnet.com) the 1998 copies are in the Port Townsend Wa library but held as reference books. Dick M23 Sadhana