From: KGRwheeler@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 01 Oct 1998 18:48:22 EDT

I am getting ready to change the trailer pads on the Trailrite trailer for my
M17.  The old pads are 2x6 but they don't seem to fit the hull contours to
well.  Does anyone know, are they supposed to be 2x6 or were they originally
2x4.  I appreciate any advice anyone can offer.
Ken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: \web Page
Date: 02 Oct 1998 06:09:30 -0700

Doug,
Wow!  Last night I checked out the archives page with the URL you sent.
What a find!   I down loaded all of it and sat up half the night reading.
I've learned more about the M's here than I could find in months of
searching, and every question I've already asked was answered.
Thank you very much.
Lee
Puppy  M326

At 08:47 PM 9/28/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Lee,
>
>        The K.D web page I couldn't remember is
>http://www.xmission.com:80/~kdiehl/.  There is a list of monthly montgomery
>list exchanges to read.  Lots of good info.
>
>Happy sailing
>
>Doug
> 




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4x4 vs Honda
Date: 02 Oct 1998 11:39:58 EDT

Bonze.........

You lookin' to maybe sell that Honda 10 ??????? ( I assume it' a 9.9 )

Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 02 Oct 1998 12:06:39 EDT

Ken

I believe the bunks on my 17 trailer were 2x6 but I'm not sure it was a
trailrite.....
pull up Trailrite trailers on the net and get theit phone #....I had that at
one time as well...but alas, moving does wonders for your paperwork.......

Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dan Diehlman" <dand@csufresno.edu>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising Gulf Islands, etc. on M-Boats
Date: 02 Oct 1998 11:51:22 -0700

Scott,
    I would enjoy a more detailed chronology of your trip. Have never
cruised that area, but sounds inviting.
            Dan
-----Original Message-----
<montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>


>Ed Hiestand wrote:
><<I am interested in a trailer boat that I can spend a month at a time in
>the gulf islands and the lower part of Alaska. I am used to extensive
>camping in a Volkswagen van , so close quarters are the standard. I am
>wondering if anyone has undertaken extended trips on the m17 and would
>appreciate any input you may have on their suitability for this type of
>use.>>
>
>Ed,
>We recently returned from cruising our M15 in British Columbia.  This time,
we
>concentrated on the Sunshine Coast and Desolation Sound areas, but have
>cruised the Gulf Islands a few years ago (different boat).  I have cruised
the
>Pacific Northwest in a variety of much larger boats, but never had more fun
>than we did on this trip on our tiny boat.  I think that both the M15 and
M17
>are perfectly suited for cruising these waters.  The beauty of the Gulf
>Islands--or most of BC cruising for that matter--is that there is ample
>opportunity to go ashore, provision, and obtain fresh water.  A small boat
>does not feel so small when you spend some time ashore exploring, swimming
in
>the fresh water lakes, going to farmer's markets, etc.  Also, if your time
is
>limited, you can trailer the boat (as we did) via ferry to different
locals.
>I would, however, strongly recommend a boom tent (one that drains
overboard,
>not into the cockpit), and maybe even a dodger for either
M-boat--especially
>the M15, due to the lack of sitting headroom below.  I was not able to get
>either together for our trip, but we were blessed with unusually dry/hot
>weather.  With a boom tent, one could still cook, read, and have a place to
>dry wet gear during rainy periods (of which there are many in this region).
>We have come to think of cruising on the M15 as a kind of boat-backpacking.
>Actually, it is more comfortable than that, but you get the idea.  Perhaps
the
>M17 would feel less this way.
>We use an Origo single-burner alcohol stove (absorption, not
pressurized--the
>safest, easiest, and most efficient stove I have ever used--and yes, I have
>tried butane) to cook in the cockpit.  We carry a minimum of fresh foods
>requiring a cooler (have a small soft cooler), and have a three gallon
water
>tank with a bulb-type hand pump on a hose led to the cockpit.  We also use
a
>large solar shower, and showered almost every  night--something that makes
>living on a small boat more enjoyable.  We placed the porta-potti aft in
the
>cockpit at night--a little more enjoyable for the crew not using the head.
>Some on this list had expressed concerns about cruising North waters in
>Montgomery boats because of the extreme currents, etc.  Excepting the
outside
>(West) side of Vancouver Island, or the Queen Charlotte Strait, I think
that
>cruising BC waters is very safe.    It is true that there are some
outrageous
>currents--in some places more than 15 knots, but if you pay attention to
the
>tide and current charts, this need not be a problem.  The fact of the
matter
>is that a thirty foot boat is not going to fare much better in a tidal eddy
or
>whirlpool.  The issue is not boat size, but seamanship (seapersonship?).
You
>can get some steep chop in the Strait of Georgia, but, as many on this list
>will likely corroborate, the M-boats are tough, seaworthy little boats.  My
>own experience suggests that with a storm jib and two reefs in the main,
The
>M15 can stand up to a lot of weather (perhaps more than I can).  I am sure
the
>same is true of the M17.
>Anyway, I strongly endorse the M-boats for this kind of cruising.  You may
>wish to solicit the opinion of the list's resident Alaska expert.  He lives
up
>there, and cruises with his family on an M15, so he can better speak of
those
>waters.
>Have fun,
>Scott Grometer, M15 #478, "bebe"
>PS: if anyone is interested, I can post a more descriptive piece of our
trip.
>
>




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15
Date: 02 Oct 1998 22:48:12 -0400

Hi John..

Faxed the M-17 brochure to you today.

Don't get carried away by 2 footitis..you have a great boat in the
M-15...wish I had one many times, even tho I love my Stargazer.

Harvey/Atl              

M-17  Stargazer #294



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: seagull
Date: 04 Oct 1998 20:58:03 EDT

...am in need of owner's manual for a silver century seagull outboard...does
any one  have a manual that they would be willing to copy...hope so!!!...ken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MacT <hapence@erols.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: seagull
Date: 04 Oct 1998 22:17:02 -0400

810042213EDT


    Tr Paula Valentino, 60 Airline Rd., South Dennis, MA 02660-2513;  Mr. 
Valentino repairs and sells SEAGULLS.  They have an E-mail address but I 
can`t find it right now.

72 y Paz Mac/Doris  WWP-19 HA`PENNY #965 @ Cole`s Pt. Plantation Marina
 Cole`s Pt., VA  <hapence@erols.com>  KQ4AL/KE4CYE    




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MacT <hapence@erols.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: seagull
Date: 04 Oct 1998 22:17:02 -0400

810042213EDT


    Tr Paula Valentino, 60 Airline Rd., South Dennis, MA 02660-2513;  Mr. 
Valentino repairs and sells SEAGULLS.  They have an E-mail address but I 
can`t find it right now.

72 y Paz Mac/Doris  WWP-19 HA`PENNY #965 @ Cole`s Pt. Plantation Marina
 Cole`s Pt., VA  <hapence@erols.com>  KQ4AL/KE4CYE    




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Fell <vup1@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15
Date: 04 Oct 1998 19:11:19 -0700

Harvey Wilson wrote:
> 
> Hi John..
> 
> Faxed the M-17 brochure to you today.
> 
> Don't get carried away by 2 footitis..you have a great boat in the
> M-15...wish I had one many times, even tho I love my Stargazer.
> 
> Harvey/Atl
> 
> M-17  Stargazer #294

Harvey, I did receive the fax you sent of the M17 with Stargazer's 
picture. I appreciate your efforts. You are right, I do have a great 
boat. It would be very hard to sell, after all I have it just the way 
that I want it now. Its just that sometimes heading out into the pacific 
ocean, can get a little overwhelming. Either a bad chop or large swells 
can make you wish for a little more!. The notes by Lyle and Jerry were 
very informing. I hope everyone that owns a 17 has those thoughts. 

thanks again. John fell M15




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: M_Boats: M15 enhancements
Date: 04 Oct 1998 19:57:36 -0700

After reading Scott's BC cruising, I am inclined to take my M15 up next
season.  We normally use our sea kayaks in that area, but a nice place to
sleep sounds inviting. Especially at my age and weight.

Now to the question.  Has anyone put a dodger and/or cockpit tent on a M15?
If so, what are your impressions?  Can you still get forward easily with the
dodger?  Who did the work?  What was the cost?

Thanks in advance,

Steve
M15-159 Sojornen





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mont15@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: M15 enhancements
Date: 04 Oct 1998 23:06:33 EDT

Steve,
I made my own dodger and a boom tent with enclosers fore and aft.  The boom
tent is fairly easy to make, but the dodger took me in excess of 40 hours.

I believe it would cost over $2,000. to have a dodger built, but you can do it
yourself for under $300. (I'd have to look up for material costs.)

If you want more info, let me know.  The Complete Canvasmaker's Guide by Jim
Grant was a big help.

I can give you some helpful hints.  Build them yourself.

Bert



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ian L. Black" <suthdrug@rosenet.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising Gulf Islands, etc. on M-Boats
Date: 05 Oct 1998 07:21:38 +0000

Dear Scott, 
    I think it would be great to hear more about your cruises in the 
Gulf Islands. 
                                              Ian



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: seagull
Date: 05 Oct 1998 11:02:28 EDT

thanks for the info on the seagull ob



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ian L. Black" <suthdrug@rosenet.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 05 Oct 1998 09:27:30 +0000

Ken, 
      I can't tell you  what was there originally but they 
are currently 2x6 on my Trail-Rite,  I'm reasonably sure 
they are original .
                                                  Ian



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KGRwheeler@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 05 Oct 1998 14:40:37 EDT

Thanks Ian, the consensus seems to to be 2x6 so that's what I will use.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Yamaha 4x4 vs Honda
Date: 04 Oct 1998 17:17:03 -0500

Lenny,

Sorry buddy, I know the minute I sold that sweetheart of a motor I'd
regret it. I'll keep it around for fishing boats or maybe the Cape Dory
26 that I don't own yet.

Later,

Bones

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vagamundo@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cruising Gulf Islands, etc. on M-Boats
Date: 06 Oct 1998 00:41:11 EDT

Please post it on the board.
Dave Steed
M17



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vagamundo@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 06 Oct 1998 00:43:51 EDT

Ken,

My Trailrite originals were 2x6s.

Dave Steed



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KGRwheeler@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 06 Oct 1998 17:50:23 EDT

Thanks Steve, I will use 2x6 and I think I will use a painted plywood beam to
see if it will last any longer than the treated fir that was on the trailer.
Ken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SandmanAl@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 06 Oct 1998 22:20:30 EDT

Painted plywood will delaminate very quickly. If you want hi tech, use the
recycled plastic "wood" that can be had at some lumber stores. How much could
2 boards cost? The green pressure treated lumber works quite well if you can't
locate the recycled lumber.   Sandy



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KGRwheeler@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 06 Oct 1998 22:35:20 EDT

I looked at the recylcled plastic, way too much bend, and it looks too much
like particle board.  The treated fir on my trailer has split at all the
supports.  The plywood I'm going to use is fabricated for exterior trim.
Should be stronger than fir and ought to last at least as long as the plywood
motor mounts (I hope).  I guess I'll give it a try and see how it does.
Ken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: InternetHarvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 06 Oct 1998 23:09:40 -0400

Hi Ken...

Stargazer's trailer is 50 miles away, so I can't measure the bunk boards,
but mine are more like 1x6 instead of 2x4 (like wall studs)

They're covered with a brown, marine grade "astro turf ", and seem to be
made of a hard wood, not pine.

Harvey/ Cumming, Ga.

M-17  Stargazer  #294 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "richard q. lane" <rqlhgl@olypen.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 06 Oct 1998 21:54:13 -0700

InternetHarvey Wilson wrote:
> 
> Hi Ken...
> 
> Stargazer's trailer is 50 miles away, so I can't measure the bunk boards,
> but mine are more like 1x6 instead of 2x4 (like wall studs)
> 
> They're covered with a brown, marine grade "astro turf ", and seem to be
> made of a hard wood, not pine.
> 
> Harvey/ Cumming, Ga.
> 
> M-17  Stargazer  #294I spiral wrapped the disintegrating bunk boards on my M23 trailer using 
FG tape and West epoxy. Has lasted 10 yrs!
Dick "Sadhana"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 07 Oct 1998 19:19:28 -0700

Ken,

Have you thought about a good epoxy seal on the plywood.  If you can keep
the water out, it should last quite a bit longer.

Steve

>I looked at the recylcled plastic, way too much bend, and it looks too much
>like particle board.  The treated fir on my trailer has split at all the
>supports.  The plywood I'm going to use is fabricated for exterior trim.
>Should be stronger than fir and ought to last at least as long as the plywood
>motor mounts (I hope).  I guess I'll give it a try and see how it does.
>Ken
>
>





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Don Haas <dshaas@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 07 Oct 1998 19:35:27 -0700

If the Trailrite trailers for the M17 are similar to the M15 trailers as to how
the bunk boards are installed; ie a three point mounting with the center point 2
or so inches lower than the end points, I have a suggestion based on my recent
experience.  I bought a really nice piece of fir for my replacement project,
covered them with carpet, then when I tried to bolt them to the trailer, the
center tang on the trailer bent up to meet the board instead of the board bending
to meet the trailer.  Only when I got the boat back on the trailer did the bunk
board bend to the correct shape.  So the suggestion is,  pre-bend the board,
maybe by placing a brick under each end and parking your car so the front tire
presses the center down to the ground, and leave it rhat way for a couple of
days.

Dob Haas, M15-248, Dream Catcher.

KGRwheeler@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks Steve, I will use 2x6 and I think I will use a painted plywood beam to
> see if it will last any longer than the treated fir that was on the trailer.
> Ken






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fritz Stuneck <fritzs@minn.net>
Subject: M_Boats: M17 FOR SALE-MN
Date: 08 Oct 1998 16:35:20 -0600

Minnesota White Bear Lake M-17 For Sale: 
Hull #MMP172330277  White Hull w/blue bottom paint
Asking $5500 or BO
Contact: Ginny Latham     email:    ginny_latham@ellerbe.com

Boat is in the water at White Bear Lake, Tally's Marina. Looks nice, well
kept.
Black toe rail, lifelines, rear stern rail, spreader boots and sleeves.
Gauges set in varnished wood. Depth, knot & Compass
Varnished brightwork.
Blue sail cover. White cushions inside. Newer style centerboard.
9.9 Sailmaster longshaft w/ lowering motor mount.
Jib, genoa. Roller furling included, not installed.
Trailer.
Reason for sale: moving out of state.


Reply to: fritzs@minn.net



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Jones <sjones@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: M_Boats: The Sailing Index
Date: 08 Oct 1998 15:01:34 -0600 (MDT)

In a short while, I will be removing my old web page
http://www.ualberta.ca/~sjones/ from the University of Alberta server.  You
may be familiar with its successor, The Sailing Index
(http://www.sailingindex.com).  The content migrated from one to the other
over a year ago, and there has been a page since then redirecting you to the
location of the most comprehensive collection of sailing links on the web.

If you have not already done so, please change your links and bookmarks to
The Sailing Index, since there will shortly no longer be a page on the U of
A server to redirect you.

New sites to be included should be sent to submit@sailingindex.com

Sincerely,
Stephen

P.S.  If you received this message more than once, I apologize.

Stephen Jones           |
Dept. of Philosophy     |     The Sailing Index
4-108 Humanities Center | 
University of Alberta   | http://www.sailingindex.com/
Edmonton, Alberta       |          
CANADA T6G 2E5          |






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Fell <vup1@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 08 Oct 1998 18:52:28 -0700

InternetHarvey Wilson wrote:
> 
> Hi Ken...
> 
> Stargazer's trailer is 50 miles away, so I can't measure the bunk boards,
> but mine are more like 1x6 instead of 2x4 (like wall studs)
> 
> They're covered with a brown, marine grade "astro turf ", and seem to be
> made of a hard wood, not pine.
> 
> Harvey/ Cumming, Ga.
> 
> M-17  Stargazer  #294

Harvey and all, I went down to my M15 today and noticed my trailer bunks 
are made of 2 by 4's. I sold lumber for a while, so I'm sure. 

John Fell M15 #126




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randolph I Palmer <palmrs@knight.cvfn.org>
Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery for sale (fwd)
Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:26:56 -0500 (CDT)

Hi Doc,

Thanks for reminding me.  You are the third person who contacted me RE: 
the M17 at Ashland, WI.  The boat has a yellow hull and I would guess it
was built in the mid 1970's because the motor mount is cut into the
transom and it has the aluminum toerails.  The gel coat looks bright and
shiney. (The northern sun doesn't eat the boats up so fast - one advantage
to our short seasons I guess.)  I've seen "Aggie" at the Ashland Marina
before.  So without further adieu: the phone number is 715-682-3961.

Good luck on your boat search.

Randy

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Randy..Saw your 9/28 post regarding the M-17 for sale on the Montgomery 
mailing list..While I was really after a M-15, ANY Montgomery in this 
part of the world is of interest..(I'm down in Oshkosh)...Do you have any 
details on her ??..Regards, Doc Musekamp




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randolph I Palmer <palmrs@knight.cvfn.org>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Montgomery for sale (fwd)
Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:46:02 -0500 (CDT)

Just me again.  I forgot to mention that the engine is a Johnson 8hp
Sailtwin (looks like it is in good shape from the outside).

Randy P.

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Randolph I Palmer wrote:

> Hi Doc,
> 
> Thanks for reminding me.  You are the third person who contacted me RE: 
> the M17 at Ashland, WI.  The boat has a yellow hull and I would guess it
> was built in the mid 1970's because the motor mount is cut into the
> transom and it has the aluminum toerails.  The gel coat looks bright and
> shiney. (The northern sun doesn't eat the boats up so fast - one advantage
> to our short seasons I guess.)  I've seen "Aggie" at the Ashland Marina
> before.  So without further adieu: the phone number is 715-682-3961.
> 
> Good luck on your boat search.
> 
> Randy
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 98 21:20:12 -0500
> From: Doc Musekamp <docm@tcccom.net>
> To: palmrs@knight.cvfn.org
> Subject: Montgomery for sale
> 
> Randy..Saw your 9/28 post regarding the M-17 for sale on the Montgomery 
> mailing list..While I was really after a M-15, ANY Montgomery in this 
> part of the world is of interest..(I'm down in Oshkosh)...Do you have any 
> details on her ??..Regards, Doc Musekamp
> 
> 
> 




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KGRwheeler@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:14:37 EDT

Dick;
I wish I had thought of that before I bought the wood for my new trailer
bunks.
Thanks, Ken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KGRwheeler@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Trailer Pads M17
Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:17:08 EDT

Dob;
Thanks for the info.  My bunks need to bend quite a bit too, but it looks like
it is controlled by the spacing of the anchor bolts.  I just about have the
bunks done and will try to install next time I launch.
Ken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: M15 Jib size?
Date: 09 Oct 1998 18:06:00 -0700

Anyone have the measurements for an M15 working Jib (an 85%)? 
How about a good place to find one, new or used.
Also, the spec sheets say the M15 has positive foam flotation.  Mine was
built in '85.  If it's there, I don't see it.  Can anyone explain this?
Lee
M15  Puppy 326




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Jib size?
Date: 10 Oct 1998 13:50:16 +0000

Hi Lee

The standard M-15 working jib is a 133%.  I don't have the measurements
at my fingertips but when I run across them I'll put them on the list. 
If your 15 doesn't have foam, someone took it out in favor of storage. 
Happens all the time.

Jerry



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mont15@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: M 15 floation?
Date: 10 Oct 1998 17:42:04 EDT

Lee,
You need approximately 1 cubic foot of foam.

Bert



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: M_Boats: things of interest
Date: 10 Oct 1998 14:17:52 +0000

Hi Group

I just went thru a box of sails in the barn and have found two M-15
sails that someone might be interested in.  They are both new sails made
by Kern Ferguson (the best).  The first is a 200% spinnaker, blue and
white, in a turtle bag, and the other is a 180% genoa, without a bag.  I
don=92t really know what they are worth now, but my latest price list
(1994) had them at 340. for the genoa and 300. for the spinnaker.  I=92m
sure that they are a good bit higher than that now so I guess 250. plus
about 10. for shipping would be a good price for either.  You know how
to reach me; I=92m leaving next week for Colorado to go murder Bambi=92s =
big
brudder and hopefully won=92t be back for a couple of weeks so if the
sails have buyers I=92ll send  them out then.

The other matter is the custom 23 owned by my friend Tom Van Atta in
Tucson, which I mentioned a few weeks ago was for sale.  Finally got him
to put a price on it, which is an astounding 5K, including a good
trailer and lots of sails.  This is a boat that was put together for
MORC racing by a good friend of mine.  It has an M-23 hull, an M-15
deck, a Wavelength 24 rig with rod rigging, and a lead fin keel off of
something.  If I had something to tow it with I would be tempted to buy
it myself, but I really don=92t want a boat that big, with my backpack
mentality.  If I did buy it, I would be tempted to put a 17 deck on it
(which I have) and a hinged mast step and make a really neat cruising
boat out of it.  Tom has a back problem that will not allow him to sail
anymore, and just bought a new truck and fifth-wheel trailer and needs
the room.  Someone should snap the boat up for that price.

Email Tom regarding the boat at <tavanatta@earthlink.net> and tell him
he owes me a beer; a good one- not the cheep stuff he usually buys.

Jerry



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Fell <vup1@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Jib size?
Date: 10 Oct 1998 21:55:45 -0700

L. Ingalls wrote:
> 
> Anyone have the measurements for an M15 working Jib (an 85%)?
> How about a good place to find one, new or used.
> Also, the spec sheets say the M15 has positive foam flotation.  Mine was
> built in '85.  If it's there, I don't see it.  Can anyone explain this?
> Lee
> M15  Puppy 326

My floation is under the cockpit, in the form of foam blocks. very 
visible from the cabin. Foward, under the v-birth, I have foam in the 
foward compartment. My hatch is screwed down so that I don't remove it. 
See if you can locate foam blocks in either place on your boat.
John Fell M15 #126




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fritz Stuneck <fritzs@minn.net>
Subject: Fwd: M_Boats: M17 FOR SALE-MN
Date: 12 Oct 1998 14:21:35 -0600

Here;s the proper email address for Ginny Latham in Minnesota
Ginny_Latham@ellerbebecket.com
612-224-1024
.
>Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:35:20 -0600
>To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
>From: Fritz Stuneck <fritzs@minn.net>
>Subject: M_Boats: M17 FOR SALE-MN

>Minnesota White Bear Lake M-17 For Sale: 
>Hull #MMP172330277  White Hull w/blue bottom paint
>Asking $5500 or BO
>Contact: Ginny Latham     email:    Ginny_Latham@ellerbebecket.com

>
>Boat is in the water at White Bear Lake, Tally's Marina. Looks nice, well
>kept.
>Black toe rail, lifelines, rear stern rail, spreader boots and sleeves.
>Gauges set in varnished wood. Depth, knot & Compass
>Varnished brightwork.
>Blue sail cover. White cushions inside. Newer style centerboard.
>9.9 Sailmaster longshaft w/ lowering motor mount.
>Jib, genoa. Roller furling included, not installed.
>Trailer.
>Reason for sale: moving out of state.

Thanks for your call this weekend, was out on the lake, great 
sailing!!!
The hull # is 233, built 1977. Any other questions you can call 
or email.
Thanks


Reply to: fritzs@minn.net



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DoorAriel@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: M17 old style CB
Date: 12 Oct 1998 18:10:56 EDT

An M17 owner recently wrote that he thought his M17 had the "new style
centerboard."  Since not much gets by me, I leaped to the conclusion that
there must be an old style centerboard, and that I probably have one.  Would
appreciate e-mail regarding the difference betwen the two boards, and whether
or not boats with the old style boards can be fitted with the new style
boards, whatever they are.

Dick -- M17 253



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Natalie Bohnet <nbohnet@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: M_Boats: Lightening Protection
Date: 12 Oct 1998 15:19:41 -0700

Has anybody come up with a plan for protection from lightening strikes on an
M17?

Natalie
M 17 #365 "Junior" 




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: stephen gray <scgray@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lightening Protection
Date: 12 Oct 1998 23:44:26 +0000

At 03:19 PM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Has anybody come up with a plan for protection from lightening strikes on an
>M17?
>
>Natalie
>M 17 #365 "Junior" 
>
>
>
 
 Don't go sailing when it's lightening outside.
 Steve




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doc Musekamp <docm@tcccom.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Count me among the enlightened !!
Date: 12 Oct 1998 19:13:31 -0500

Hello everyone..I'm a brand new M-17 owner and list subscriber (although 
I've lurked through the archives on a fairly regular basis in the past 
!). I owe a debt of gratitude to Randy Palmer for his recent post, 
alerting me to "Aggie"'s availability in Ashland,WI. Randy emailed me the 
owner's phone number Friday night, I called, and Creighton Koski agreed 
to deliver the boat to Wausau, WI which is about 2 hrs from my home base 
of Oshkosh. Made the deal (and I mean deal!) and picked her up on 
Saturday.I keep wandering into the garage to convince myself she's really 
there...I'm completely infatuated..all kinds of plans/ideas for minor 
improvements or visions of long summer weekends on her, keep popping into 
my head...Possible name change ahead and yes, I have a copy of the 
correct ritual to Neptune to hopefully negate the associated untold bad 
luck ! I've owned several other boats as well as built a small skiff, but 
I think this one's for keeps. She's a 1978 model, Hull number 218 if I'm 
reading it right, with a beautiful sunflower yellow hull and white decks. 
Johnson Sailmaster 8 for power power and the standard set of main and jib 
for sail power. From what you all have said, looks like a 150 jenny is in 
my immediate future...Mostly, I'm just happy to have found her and feel 
certain that the best is yet to come...



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mont15@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Lightening Protection
Date: 12 Oct 1998 20:30:00 EDT

Natalie,
You can set up for lightening the same way I have done.  Put a lightening
dissipater on the mast.  Forespar makes one for under $100.  I can't remember
the price.  This will draw off static electricty.

Put a tang on the port and starboard side of your mast tabernackle.  To this
attaches heavy cables (like jumper cables but heavier.) which you can have
made up at a welding supply shop.  The cables need to reach from the mast to
the water when you are heeled over.  Don't skimp here because otherwise they
will not do you much good.  At the end of each attach about 12 inches of
copper pipe.  Then you are set,

A friend permanently attaches bolts to the tangs and simply brings up the
cables from below and attaches them with wing nuts.  Then just put the cables
in the water.

I gathered this information from my brother whose friends designs equipment
for airport control towers. The equipment prevents problems from lightening
strikes.

Bert

PS
If you know anyone looking for a great M 15, mine is for sale.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 old style CB
Date: 12 Oct 1998 16:51:29 +0000

Dick

The older 17s (up to about #330 )had a cast iron cb; the newer ones had
a glass board, filled with lead.  They are not interchangable because of
the different shape.  The foundry that made the cast iron boards closed
their doors (taking my pattern with them) in about 1990 and we made the
change at that time.

Jerry

DoorAriel@aol.com wrote:
> 
> An M17 owner recently wrote that he thought his M17 had the "new style
> centerboard."  Since not much gets by me, I leaped to the conclusion that
> there must be an old style centerboard, and that I probably have one.  Would
> appreciate e-mail regarding the difference betwen the two boards, and whether
> or not boats with the old style boards can be fitted with the new style
> boards, whatever they are.
> 
> Dick -- M17 253



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Jib size?
Date: 12 Oct 1998 19:41:55 -0400

Hi Lee,
The foam logs are installed in the storage area under the berth in the
bow.  Additional foam logs are in the aft end of the M-15, under the
cockpit sole.
If you open the front storage cover, under the berth, you'll find them
easily.  The cockpit sole floatation can be seen with a flashlight from
the cabin.
Connie

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fritz Stuneck <fritzs@minn.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 old style CB
Date: 13 Oct 1998 05:20:46 -0600

According to Jerry M, only about the first 20 or so M17's had the "old
style" centerboard which weighs around 500# and is cast steel or iron. This
heavy centerboard cranks up and down with a trunnion mechanism which means
that the board pivots on a fixed pin (which you can see at the bottom of
the centerboard tunnel) . As you turn the crank screw (which is also
fixed), the board moves up or down by means of a sort of clamp that
attaches to the screw. This mechanism has great power and I can tell you
that it WILL lift your boat out of the water when you are stuck in sand or
or rocks iff you crank the wrong direction!   However, the centerboard
tunnel takes up substantial room in the cabin area. These boats also have
no extra ballast cast or moulded into the bottom of the hull. I would
imagine that the early 17's probably do better in heavier air, eh?  There's
my .02 worth which should be pretty close.
There were a number of messages concerning this awhile ago and should be in
the archives somewhere.
Reply to: fritzs@minn.net



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doc Musekamp <docm@tcccom.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Count me among...
Date: 13 Oct 1998 05:41:25 -0500

Sorry, folks...got so carried away, forgot to introduce myself....Doc 
Musekamp...Home port is Oshkosh,WI...Primary sailing waters..Lake 
Winnebago and Green Lake, both in east central Wisconsin...Lots of other 
places beckon however.. 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: theo <theo@quattrocreative.com>
Subject: M_Boats: New
Date: 13 Oct 1998 08:51:22 -0600

Hello, my name is Theo I live in the Twin Cities of St.Paul(capital) and
Minneapolis. I own a 1980 Montgomery(duh?) 17. Beige in color, she is
named "Sails Call" I am considering selling it because I would like
something larger, but it's such a great boat I'm torn. Thank God for
winter storage.

I'd like to find a Montgomery 23 in my general vicinity to look and and
consider purchasing if available. So....if there is anyone out there
that would like to show me their 23 this fall/winter, please contact me.
I did notice (2) 23's in Hudson, WI earlier this season, are they still
around?

Looking forward to reading lots of good info to get me through this
winter-hell.

Cheers!




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Rubey <rroubaix@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Genoa rigging
Date: 13 Oct 1998 12:48:56 -0400

We're thinking of adding a genoa to our M17 and would like advice on how
others have gone about this.  Do you add genoa track to the toe rail, as
Bert has done on Kokopelli?  Where along the toe rail do you place it?
How do you run the genoa sheet?  What solutions have others come up
with.  Thanks for any help, Robert




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: New
Date: 13 Oct 1998 14:41:51 EDT

Theo

If you get tired of the ice and snow this winter I have an M-23 in Phoenix,
AZ.  I just finished a MAJOR move ( I swear, never again ) so after I get her
cleaned up a bit we'll be on the water.........

Smooth Sailin'
Lenny M-23 # 003
Sea Horse



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Fisher <bfisher@firstam.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Genoa rigging
Date: 13 Oct 1998 15:12:48 -0700

Robert:
I have the perforated toe rail my 150 uses snap on blocks that can be moved
and snapped into a new hole in the toe rail as needed. I have the sail
mounted on a CDI furler. The blocks work fine. Why go to the expense or a
track?
Bob Fisher

Robert Rubey wrote:

> We're thinking of adding a genoa to our M17 and would like advice on how
> others have gone about this.  Do you add genoa track to the toe rail, as
> Bert has done on Kokopelli?  Where along the toe rail do you place it?
> How do you run the genoa sheet?  What solutions have others come up
> with.  Thanks for any help, Robert






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randolph I Palmer <palmrs@knight.cvfn.org>
Subject: M_Boats: Re: Montgomery for sale (fwd)
Date: 13 Oct 1998 20:45:03 -0500 (CDT)

Hi Doc,

Well congratulations on buying a NICE boat!  I was almost tempted to start
adding to my fleet again but I saw she was gone last weekend.  I figured
someone couldn't resist.  You bought her sight unseen?  Takes some nerve
(or an awfully large amount of trust on my words) but sounds like you got
a good deal.  I'm copying this note so the M_Boat crowd knows what's up.
You are right.  There are some smart and helpful people on the list (I try
to put on the image that I'm one of them).  ;^)

Where are you going to sail her?  You'll have to post the list with the
tales of your first sails (we will accept it in poetic form).  Enjoy!

Fair winds,
Randy

 On Sat, 10 Oct 1998, Doc Musekamp wrote:

> Randy...Well, third times the charm !!!..Just got back from Wausau..where 
> I picked up my new boat !!..Made the deal on the phone last night and 
> Creighton Koski agreed to deliver it to Wausau this afternoon..Can't 
> believe it, it hasn't really sunk in yet..the boat is a '76 model with an 
> '86 Johnson Sailmaster 8..and like you said, the hull is in gorgeous 
> condition..Bright yellow and not a craze or crack anywhere...Just 
> beautiful...Creighton made me an incredible deal on top of everything; I 
> ended up paying less than I expected to spend on an M-15 !!.. so I 
> couldn't be more pleased..Just wish we had a bit more of the season 
> left..In any event, I owe you one !!.thanks again for pointing me in the 
> right direction..I'll be subscribing to the list as well..Seem like some 
> knowledgeable, helpful folks participate...Take care..Doc Musekamp
> 




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dick Allgire <brinefly@soft-link.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Genoa rigging
Date: 13 Oct 1998 20:23:42 -0700

>Robert:
>I have the perforated toe rail my 150 uses snap on blocks that can be moved
>and snapped into a new hole in the toe rail as needed. I have the sail
>mounted on a CDI furler. The blocks work fine. Why go to the expense or a
>track?
>Bob Fisher

Same here....easy to move the block from one setting to another until y9ou
get the best set for your genny....easier than a track, I think.
>
>Robert Rubey wrote:
>
>> We're thinking of adding a genoa to our M17 and would like advice on how
>> others have gone about this.  Do you add genoa track to the toe rail, as
>> Bert has done on Kokopelli?  Where along the toe rail do you place it?
>> How do you run the genoa sheet?  What solutions have others come up
>> with.  Thanks for any help, Robert






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randolph I Palmer <palmrs@knight.cvfn.org>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: New
Date: 13 Oct 1998 21:18:41 -0500 (CDT)

Hi Theo,

Our M23 just moved to Navaho Lake on the Colorado/New Mexico border. 
There was one available in the LaCrosse, WI area (original owner -
supposedly in great shape with many extras) earlier this year.  It seemed
to be at the top of the market ($17K) but maybe it is worth it.  It has a
red hull and is called Paprika.  You might call 608-787-5810 and talk to
them.

There are atleast two more in the area - one in Isle, MN and another in
the Twin Cities area someplace - maybe the one you saw in Hudson.
Randy P.

On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, theo wrote:

> Hello, my name is Theo I live in the Twin Cities of St.Paul(capital) and
> Minneapolis. I own a 1980 Montgomery(duh?) 17. Beige in color, she is
> named "Sails Call" I am considering selling it because I would like
> something larger, but it's such a great boat I'm torn. Thank God for
> winter storage.
> 
> I'd like to find a Montgomery 23 in my general vicinity to look and and
> consider purchasing if available. So....if there is anyone out there
> that would like to show me their 23 this fall/winter, please contact me.
> I did notice (2) 23's in Hudson, WI earlier this season, are they still
> around?
> 
> Looking forward to reading lots of good info to get me through this
> winter-hell.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saltm17@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Genoa rigging
Date: 13 Oct 1998 22:30:15 EDT

I have the teak toerail, and there is a track on it, two actually.  The one
goes all the way aft, for use with the spinnaker.  The foreward one works best
with the storm jib.

John



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ian L. Black" <suthdrug@rosenet.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Having a ball!
Date: 13 Oct 1998 23:07:35 +0000


Hello everyone,
       Congratulations to Doc on the newest member of his family. I'm 
having a ball with our M-17!  We haven't had a chance to put it in 
the water since we bought it but that has not been a problem yet.
I have it parked on the street in front of our house (we live on a 
cul de sac). I got a warning notice for having a recreational vehicle 
parked on the street for more than 24 hours stuck to it today by the 
local gendarme. I guess I'll have to move it  to the storage lot for 
the time being. Too bad! It's been very pleasant to eat my corn 
flakes and be able to watch my boat from the kitchen window.  I 
suppose moving it is for the best though -it will be safer and the 
neighbors are starting to talk because of the amount of time I spend 
just sitting in it. I guess they find this type of behavior unusual. 
Tsk, tsk not much imagination..My wife calls it my fort.
        She suggested that  I might think about actually putting 
it in the water. I found this to be a novel thought so on Sunday we 
dragged it to the local resevoir.  We successfully stepped the mast 
for the first time and did it without  trying to kill each other off, 
a harbinger of good fortune for sure.  In trying to get the mast up 
we managed to attract the attention of several folks( not bad for 
a previously empty parking lot) and I had several long drawn out 
discussions on the correct  way to go about it while my wife held up 
the mast (we also own a business together.. Has this woman got a 
sense of humor or what). After having finally  got it raised we 
discovered there was no water in the resevoir to speak of . One of 
our "advisors" mentioned that they started letting the water out at 
the end of September as was the norm this time of year in the
mountains. Waterless resevoirs, hmmm. Maybe I could sell those heat- 
and-serve  ice packs in our store....  
Anyways to make a long story even longer I decided this would be a 
great time to practice unstepping the mast.  I first told my wife to 
stand at the end of the cockpit and catch  the mast when I released 
the forestay . She nixxed this idea . She said she had learned her 
lesson when we owned our 1st daysailer, a 16ft  Sunbird called "I 
Think I Can".  We were on our maiden voyage  on a day  in March one 
would term as on the warm side of freezing.  We were approaching the 
dock after a brisk (and fraught filled) sail when we discovered our  
"sail away package"  did not include auxillary power or even an oar.
(I corrected this quickly on our second sail when I found a used wet 
suit at a garage sale- a tad small for me but it fit my wife 
perfectly- talk about luck) We came in under full sail and with an 
amazing turn of speed. As we approached the dock I yelled to my  
wife to stop us with her foot. She yelled back that her foot would 
break . I reminded her that her foot would heal  but I 
didn't think the gel coat would. We did get her in safely in the end  
and my wife's limp is almost unnoticeable , but we're getting away 
from  the real story...       
        After much  discussion and tears (mine) she handled the 
forestay and I handled the mast. During this event  a new "advisor"
came to offer his wise counsel . He turned out to be a very pleasant 
fellow  who sails a McGregor 26  on the Sea of Cortez every winter.
He extolled on the virtues of sailing in that area and even invited 
us down if we could make it. What a wonderful group the cruising 
sailors are. I would have been even more impressed if he would have 
helped but he continually pointed out how we needed to learn to 
operate as a team on our new boat. (He really did help us ...) 
Without much further ado we got packed up and headed for home so we 
could once more park it (illegally) at its corn flake perch. A great 
day of almost-sailing! I wonder if it's as much fun as when it is in 
the water?
                                            Good sailing to all,
                                                    Ian in Oregon
                                               M-17 #343  
                                                "Seaweeble"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doc Musekamp <docm@tcccom.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Having a ball
Date: 14 Oct 1998 07:24:34 -0500

Ian...What a hoot !!..Great story..almost choked on MY corn flakes..nice 
to start the day with a good laugh!!..Thanks !!

Doc Musekamp
M17,#218



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doc Musekamp <docm@tcccom.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Having a ball
Date: 14 Oct 1998 07:28:42 -0500

Ian...What a hoot !!..Almost choked on MY cornflakes..Great story. Nice 
to start the day with a good laugh !!..Thanks !

Doc Musekamp
M17, #218



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@adnc.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Jib size?
Date: 14 Oct 1998 05:48:40 -0700

Connie,
Nope, no foam anywhere.  I guesstamate about 12 cubic feet should hold
float the boat, motor, and passengers.  Any thought on that?

Just saw a note from J.M.   I thought he was in the boonies venting his
murderous urges.   Jerry scared me with that bit about the working jib
being a 133%.   Is he testing me?   Does anyone use a smaller head sail?

I still haven't put Puppy in the water.  Trying to get her all pretty;
previous owner wasn't into maintenance.   But when I do, ya' all will be
the first to hear about it.
 
And I'm trying to bring back a really oxidized finish, found a lovely blue
stripe, or about two square inches of it.  Is there a fast way to dig
through heavy oxidation?
Help.
M15  Puppy 326
Lee




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Sails
Date: 14 Oct 1998 06:03:50 -0700

Anyone know how to remove rust stains from a sail?
M15  Puppy  #326




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: m 17
Date: 14 Oct 1998 09:22:23 EDT

...vanda shot out port lights w/pellet gun
please
would appreciate detailed advise on how to remove cabin ports to replace the
now punctered glass...grove



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: TEHowe@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Having a ball!
Date: 14 Oct 1998 09:45:12 EDT

In a message dated 10/14/98 1:11:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
suthdrug@rosenet.net writes:

<< It's been very pleasant to eat my corn 
 flakes and be able to watch my boat from the kitchen window.  >>
 I find a great deal of pleasure when my boat is in my drive in having my
morning coffee in the cockpit while daydreaming of distant harbors. Don't just
look at it, participate! You are going to have a lot of fun on your
Montgomery, congratulations. TH



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randy Palmer <palmerri@uwec.edu>
Subject: M_Boats: Cruising in a Falmouth Cutter 22'
Date: 14 Oct 1998 17:09:16 -0700

http://www.48north.com/sep98/falmout.htm
Hi Hess fans,

I'll pass this address on to you folks with web access.  The Falmouth
Cutter is a fantasy boat for me - one I'll probably never own but it
leaves lots of room open for dreaming:  a small, go anywhere character
boat that is pretty besides.  The article has some good hints and
arguements for small boat owners.  Besides, I like the subtitle.

Enjoy.

Randy P.
M15 #515 "Oui-1"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 old style CB
Date: 14 Oct 1998 16:42:04 +0000

Hi Fritz

You've got it right except for details; the original M-17 of which you
right is a RETRACTABLE KEEL 17, and the "old style cb followed.  We made
around 300 of them, and switched to the "new" cb model about 1990.

Jerry

Fritz Stuneck wrote:
> 
> According to Jerry M, only about the first 20 or so M17's had the "old
> style" centerboard which weighs around 500# and is cast steel or iron. This
> heavy centerboard cranks up and down with a trunnion mechanism which means
> that the board pivots on a fixed pin (which you can see at the bottom of
> the centerboard tunnel) . As you turn the crank screw (which is also
> fixed), the board moves up or down by means of a sort of clamp that
> attaches to the screw. This mechanism has great power and I can tell you
> that it WILL lift your boat out of the water when you are stuck in sand or
> or rocks iff you crank the wrong direction!   However, the centerboard
> tunnel takes up substantial room in the cabin area. These boats also have
> no extra ballast cast or moulded into the bottom of the hull. I would
> imagine that the early 17's probably do better in heavier air, eh?  There's
> my .02 worth which should be pretty close.
> There were a number of messages concerning this awhile ago and should be in
> the archives somewhere.
> Reply to: fritzs@minn.net



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Having a ball!
Date: 13 Oct 1998 21:58:20 -0500

Ian,

If you like your boat OUT of the water , just wait till you try it IN the
water.
Yee-hawwww.

Michael "Bones" Bowden
M17 #92

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden)
Subject: M_Boats: Re: Montgomery for sale (fwd)
Date: 13 Oct 1998 21:42:51 -0500

Doc,

Welcome to the list and congrats on the new (used) M17. You'll have
countless hours of enjoyment sailing her wherever you wish. I think our
boats may be very similar, I have a yellow hull also, yet rather faded,
serial #92, 1976.
This was my second season sailing her, and I am more than pleased.
I bet you'll be anxious for spring to arrive to the mid-west.
Keep us posted on your adventures.

Michael "Bones" Bowden

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden)
Subject: M_Boats: Re: Montgomery for sale (fwd)
Date: 13 Oct 1998 21:42:51 -0500

Doc,

Welcome to the list and congrats on the new (used) M17. You'll have
countless hours of enjoyment sailing her wherever you wish. I think our
boats may be very similar, I have a yellow hull also, yet rather faded,
serial #92, 1976.
This was my second season sailing her, and I am more than pleased.
I bet you'll be anxious for spring to arrive to the mid-west.
Keep us posted on your adventures.

Michael "Bones" Bowden

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: deck failure on m-15
Date: 15 Oct 1998 09:29:56 EDT

warning to all m-15 owners...yesterday while assisting w/lowering of mast[very
carefully]...suddenly the mast dropped vertically about 2 feet...at first
could not comprehend what had happened...upon examination...the deck below the
mast tabernacle collapsed and the mast dropped straight down into the
cabin...the area is soft and very spongy...it appears that the four
boltsattaching the mast tabernacle allowed moisture to seep into the core and
then the deck softened, glass on cabin side delaminated and the whole thing
collapsed...note...the mast was under no downward strain as it was being
lowered back towards the cockpit...infact it had probably not moved more than
6 feet in an arc as it was being lowered and was not in a strain...the owner
of the boat died of luekemia after a 2 year battle and so it has not been
looked after for 2 years..but why would the deck collapse...also front deck
seems to be soft...2 questions...ideas on repairs and reinforcement???...and
whats the trick to get the centerboard free???...no barnacles or little rocks
wedged in the well...thanks for any response



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: TEHowe@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: M17 for sale repost
Date: 15 Oct 1998 10:59:37 EDT

Montgomery 17 sailboat in good shape with complete
inventory for sale. 1978 keel/cb model,
with Trailrite trailer. Three berth model, with galley sink to
port. 
Main, Working Jib, Genoa.
PFDs, anchor, whisker pole, electrical package,
PortaPotti, bulkhead mounted compass and knotmeter.
Transom mounted swim ladder, masthead windvane,
Harken traveler gear. 
Johnson 4hp Sailmaster outboard with external gas tank
Telescoping tiller extension
Canoe paddle
4 fenders.

$5000.

Thomas Howe 785-841-6271
E-Mail TEHowe@aol.com



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Having a ball!
Date: 15 Oct 1998 23:24:40 -0400

Hi Ian...

  Stargazer, my M-17, has a life similiar to yours.  She sits in the side
yard, and I'll enjoy a few reflective moments in her cockpit at night.  On
weekends, when the little grandkids visit, they insist on exploring her
cockpit and cabin, snuggling on her cushions, and raising the jib.

In your mast raising exercises, did you attach a line to the forestay to
help raise  and lower it ??  I use the sheets with a U shackle to connect
them to the jib turnbuckle.

I then stay in the cockpit while the admiral lowers the mast with the
forestay/sheets.  She can usually control the mast until it gets to a 45
deg. angle, at which time I can take hold and walk it back to the gallows
fitted to the rudder pintles.

Harvey/ Ga

M-17  Stargazer  #294 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rod&Elsa Johnson" <elsajohn@olympus.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: m17 cruising
Date: 15 Oct 1998 21:16:06 -0700


-----Original Message-----
<montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>

Ed Hiestand wrote

>I am interested in a trailer boat that I can spend a month at a time in
>the gulf islands and the lower part of alaska. I am used to extensive
>camping in a volkswagon van , so close quarters are the standard. I am
>wondering if anyone has undertaken extended trips on the m17 and would
>appreciate any input you may have on their suitability for this type of
>use. Would also like to read any stories that have been posted or
>published regarding cruising on such boats. Thanks
>Ed Hiestand
>
>
Ed   -   I spent about 7 weeks early this summer singlehanding my M17 from
my home in Port Angeles WA  up into British Columbia, thru the Gulf Islands,
Desolation Sound, Johnstone Strait, around Cape Caution, etc. Had originally
thought to go all the way to Juneau then scaled it back when the reality of
covering lots of miles sunk in - but I made it to Bella Bella and decided to
explore around there. I wandered back to Ocean Falls and Bella Coola, then
returned to Bella Bella by way of Namu and made a pass around the back (W)
side of the island that Bella Bella is on, and from there headed back more
or less the way I came. From all that I can tell you that the M17 is perfect
for one person for that kind of trip. My wife met me in Alert Bay for 3 days
and again in Ganges for 2 days and it was pretty crowded with two.

I have made a number of minor changes to accomodate our weather and
facilitate singlehanding - most of them have been extensively discussed here
but I will list them anyway:
    - For safety I have a stern rail, a folding boarding ladder (always
hanging on the transom) and eye bolts for safety harness attachment.
    - The main has slugs, lazy jacks and a topping lift to facilitate
reefing. I always rigged the jib with a downhaul so I could douse it without
going forward.
    -  There is a double bow roller for the anchors - each anchor and its
rode is kept in a basket in the cockpit with its line already lead around a
roller so all I have to do to drop an anchor is to throw it overboard and
pay out the line from the basket. To retrieve an anchor, I go forward, get
hold of the line outboard from the roller, walk it back to the cockpit and
pull it in from there.
    -  I made a small dodger that just covers the companionway to keep the
rain out (mostly) and there is a cockpit cover that fits over the boom.
    -  I cooked on a 1 burner camp stove that sat on a board on a bucket in
the cockpit and most of my meals were cooked in a pressure cooker.
    -  I have a fishfinder type fathometer that the guess work out of
finding the bottom fish that I ate almost every day.
    -  There is a large solar panel mounted on the stern rail that kept the
battery charged even though the sun didn't shine ever day.
    -  I started out with a Honda 5hp and it worked great. On my way back I
met another sailor who wanted to trade his Honda 8 (with alternator) for my
5 (he wanted to get rid of 20 lbs that he had to muscle every time he put
the motor on his dingy). The 8 is also great, it is smoother than the 5
(being a twin) but I can't use more than a fraction of its power and it is
heavy. Maybe the alterntor will let me get along without the solar panel,
but otherwise I wish I had the 5 back.

Thats an overview - if you  have any questions I will do my best to answer
them

Rod Johnson  M17 #408, "BuscaBrisas"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: suthdrug@rosenet.net
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Having a ball!
Date: 16 Oct 1998 04:42:51 GMT

Harvey, 
    I once again owe you thanks for the help. Your method of lowering the mast 
sounds a lot easier than our first attempt. I would imagine it is not near as 
exciting but life does have its trade-offs (lower medical bills, no divorce 
lawyers, etc.)... Anyways, thanks again, your advice will get good use.
                                                     Ian from Oregon
                                                     M-17  #343
                                                     "Seaweeble"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gary M. Hyde" <gmhyde@wsu.edu>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: m17 cruising
Date: 16 Oct 1998 08:57:22 -0700

Rod&Elsa:
I live in Pullman, WA., and am very interested in sailing Puget Sound and
adjoining waters. I'm also interested in acquiring an easily trailered and
single-handed boat, such as an M17, if you happen to know of one in the
Pacific Northwest that is for sale (sail!).
Regarding your sail up into the Gulf Islands and beyond, what do you do to
keep warm on your boat?
Thanks.
gmhyde@wsu.edu

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ed hiestand <hiestec@homer.libby.org>
>To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
><montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>
>Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 6:14 PM
>Subject: M_Boats: m17
>
>Ed Hiestand wrote
>
>>I am interested in a trailer boat that I can spend a month at a time in
>>the gulf islands and the lower part of alaska. I am used to extensive
>>camping in a volkswagon van , so close quarters are the standard. I am
>>wondering if anyone has undertaken extended trips on the m17 and would
>>appreciate any input you may have on their suitability for this type of
>>use. Would also like to read any stories that have been posted or
>>published regarding cruising on such boats. Thanks
>>Ed Hiestand
>>
>>
>Ed   -   I spent about 7 weeks early this summer singlehanding my M17 from
>my home in Port Angeles WA  up into British Columbia, thru the Gulf Islands,
>Desolation Sound, Johnstone Strait, around Cape Caution, etc. Had originally
>thought to go all the way to Juneau then scaled it back when the reality of
>covering lots of miles sunk in - but I made it to Bella Bella and decided to
>explore around there. I wandered back to Ocean Falls and Bella Coola, then
>returned to Bella Bella by way of Namu and made a pass around the back (W)
>side of the island that Bella Bella is on, and from there headed back more
>or less the way I came. From all that I can tell you that the M17 is perfect
>for one person for that kind of trip. My wife met me in Alert Bay for 3 days
>and again in Ganges for 2 days and it was pretty crowded with two.
>
>I have made a number of minor changes to accomodate our weather and
>facilitate singlehanding - most of them have been extensively discussed here
>but I will list them anyway:
>    - For safety I have a stern rail, a folding boarding ladder (always
>hanging on the transom) and eye bolts for safety harness attachment.
>    - The main has slugs, lazy jacks and a topping lift to facilitate
>reefing. I always rigged the jib with a downhaul so I could douse it without
>going forward.
>    -  There is a double bow roller for the anchors - each anchor and its
>rode is kept in a basket in the cockpit with its line already lead around a
>roller so all I have to do to drop an anchor is to throw it overboard and
>pay out the line from the basket. To retrieve an anchor, I go forward, get
>hold of the line outboard from the roller, walk it back to the cockpit and
>pull it in from there.
>    -  I made a small dodger that just covers the companionway to keep the
>rain out (mostly) and there is a cockpit cover that fits over the boom.
>    -  I cooked on a 1 burner camp stove that sat on a board on a bucket in
>the cockpit and most of my meals were cooked in a pressure cooker.
>    -  I have a fishfinder type fathometer that the guess work out of
>finding the bottom fish that I ate almost every day.
>    -  There is a large solar panel mounted on the stern rail that kept the
>battery charged even though the sun didn't shine ever day.
>    -  I started out with a Honda 5hp and it worked great. On my way back I
>met another sailor who wanted to trade his Honda 8 (with alternator) for my
>5 (he wanted to get rid of 20 lbs that he had to muscle every time he put
>the motor on his dingy). The 8 is also great, it is smoother than the 5
>(being a twin) but I can't use more than a fraction of its power and it is
>heavy. Maybe the alterntor will let me get along without the solar panel,
>but otherwise I wish I had the 5 back.
>
>Thats an overview - if you  have any questions I will do my best to answer
>them
>
>Rod Johnson  M17 #408, "BuscaBrisas"


Gary M. Hyde
Biological Systems Engineering Dept., WSU
Pullman, WA. 99164-6120 USA
Ph: 509-335-1636, FAX 509-335-2722
email: gmhyde@wsu.edu
Web sites:

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~gmhyde/ImpactProperties.html

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~gmhyde/411BSysE-web-pages/411SrDIIOverview.html

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~gmhyde/433_web_pages/433AgProcOverview.html

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~gmhyde/CycloneOverview.html

http://www.bsyse.wsu.edu/faculty/hyde.html





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael R Lallier" <TIMELESSVOYAGER@prodigy.net>
Subject: M_Boats: new member
Date: 16 Oct 1998 22:33:09 -0400

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Hello fellow sailers!   =20
just returned home [ Cape Cod, Mass ] this past June from sailing south =
for the past four years. willing to pass on any info to those of you =
thinking of full time cruising.=20
send to: timelessvoyager@prodigy.net

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello fellow =
sailers!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>just returned home [ Cape Cod, Mass ] this past June =
from=20
sailing south for the past four years. willing to pass on any info to =
those of=20
you thinking of full time cruising. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>send to:=20
timelessvoyager@prodigy.net</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rod&Elsa Johnson" <elsajohn@olympus.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: m17 cruising
Date: 17 Oct 1998 08:58:18 -0700


-----Original Message-----
<montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>; Rod&Elsa Johnson
<elsajohn@olympus.net>


>Rod&Elsa:
>I live in Pullman, WA., and am very interested in sailing Puget Sound and
>adjoining waters. I'm also interested in acquiring an easily trailered and
>single-handed boat, such as an M17, if you happen to know of one in the
>Pacific Northwest that is for sale (sail!).
>Regarding your sail up into the Gulf Islands and beyond, what do you do to
>keep warm on your boat?
>Thanks.
>gmhyde@wsu.edu
>


Gary   -   keeping warm wasn't much of a problem, thanks to long underware,
a Mustang exposure suit and generally mild temperatures. The cabin could be
warmed up a bit with a kerosene lantern (a Coleman lantern would have worked
better I suppose but might have been more of a safety hazard). I also
carried a little propane radiant heater but never used it. Getting wet
things to dry was a bit of a problem at times and made me yearn for a real
cabin heater and a place to hang stuff. That little problem and the general
difficulty of cruising with 2, given the kind of weather we are blessed
with, has made me think I want a bigger boat. So my M17 is sort of for
sale - meaning I haven't advertised it but would sell it if the opportunity
presented itself. If you are interested come on over and we will go for a
sail -

Rod Johnson, M17 #408




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Having a ball!
Date: 17 Oct 1998 23:58:54 -0400

Hi Ian...

..Don't mention it !! I just passed on the method that the previous owner
of Stargazer showed me when I went to Fla. to get her.

3 years ago, I could hardly find my backside with both hands when it came
to a trailer sailer, but the good folks here took me under their collective
wing and helped me out...glad to have helped.

  Harvey/ Ga

M-17  Stargazer  #294



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Don Haas <dshaas@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Having a ball!
Date: 17 Oct 1998 20:43:16 -0700

Great story, that local resevoir wasn't Fernridge by any chance was it?

Don, also in Oregon
M15-248 Dream Catcher





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Shelley Daringer" <shelley@discover-net.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Florida trip
Date: 18 Oct 1998 07:23:58 -0500

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Hi all,=20
Kris and I are planning a short trip to Florida in the early part of =
February and would love to do a few hours sailing while we are there.  =
Does anyone know of any good charters? Or maybe a Montgomery owner that =
would like to take us out for a while?
We haven't sailed on anything bigger than Lake Pepin, and are real =
curious how the sailing is down there...
We wtll be in south Florida staying with friends in Ft. Lauderdale, but =
can go just about anywhere in the state.  So far the trip will be at =
least 5 days long.  We just have to get out of Wisconsin for a while in =
the dead of winter!
Thanks in advance for any responses,=20
Shelley=20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi all, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Kris and I are planning a short trip =
to Florida=20
in the early part of February and would love to do a few hours sailing =
while we=20
are there.&nbsp; Does anyone know of any good charters? Or maybe a =
Montgomery=20
owner that would like to take us out for a while?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We haven't sailed on anything bigger =
than Lake=20
Pepin, and are real curious how the sailing is down =
there...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We wtll be in south Florida staying =
with friends=20
in Ft. Lauderdale, but can go just about anywhere in the state.&nbsp; So =
far the=20
trip will be at least 5 days long.&nbsp; We just have to get out of =
Wisconsin=20
for a while in the dead of winter!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks in advance for any=20
responses,&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Shelley&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Ian L. Black" <suthdrug@rosenet.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Oregon almost sailing
Date: 18 Oct 1998 08:36:47 +0000

Don, 
        It wasn't Fern Ridge. It was Cooper Creek  outside of 
Sutherlin. I basically wanted to practice launching activities
since Cooper Creek is a tad small to actually sail in. I hope to nail 
down a mooring in Fern Ridge in 1999. If I can't get one there I'll 
probably drag the Seaweeble up to the Columbia. If you have any 
suggestions on where to put in for the season let me know. 
        Fern Ridge appears to offer the best opportunity for sailing 
because of its proximity to Sutherlin. The wife likes the idea of the 
Columbia. I think that may be because of its proximity to Nordstom's.
Needless to say, the Columbia appears to be much more expensive and 
not quite as desirable even though you are that much closer to new 
dry clothing in the latest styles.
          Looking forward to hearing from you.
                                          Ian in Oregon
                                           M17  #343
                                           "Seaweeble"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Questions for Rod
Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:39:22 -0400

Some questions for Rod Johnson: 

Rod, your adventures sound great.  I hope to be able to get free for
similar trips myself, in the east coast/Great Lakes area.  I had my M15 on
Lake Erie today, for the first time, and we got a taste of the weather the
Great Lakes can dish out.  A few comments and questions: 

" - For safety I have a stern rail, a folding boarding ladder (always
hanging on the transom) and eye bolts for safety harness attachment."  
What location(s) would you recommend for eye bolt attachment points?  

"  - The main has slugs, lazy jacks and a topping lift to facilitate
reefing. I always rigged the jib with a downhaul so I could douse it
without
going forward."   
I agree that slugs and topping lift are the only way to go.  Have you, or
anyone, tried a storm trysail?  I am definitely ordering a storm jib, and
considering a trysail.  Maybe a second reef would have helped us today, but
I don't like what reefing does to sail shape.  I've never had a problem
hauling down the jib - just uncleat the halyard and down it comes.  So I
don't understand all the attention paid to jib downhauls.  Could it be my
nylon hanks just slide better on the forestay than most?

"    -  There is a double bow roller for the anchors. . . "
Your setup sounds great.  Can you explain what the rollers are (blocks?),
and where they are attached? 

Thanks,
Bill Riker
M15 #184





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: M_Boats: Words of Wisdom??
Date: 18 Oct 1998 20:52:12 -0700

I made the investment in some Cetol Marine today (rumor is that they will
soon offer a 5 year loan per quart), plus some oxalic acid to clean up the
bright work on Sojornen.  Any words of wisdom about working with either?  

Regards,

Steve
M15 159 Sojornen





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wilsometer@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Words of Wisdom??
Date: 19 Oct 1998 01:43:10 EDT


In a message dated 10/18/98 8:48:55 PM, you wrote:

<<I made the investment in some Cetol Marine today (rumor is that they wil=
l
soon offer a 5 year loan per quart), plus some oxalic acid to clean up the
bright work on Sojornen.  Any words of wisdom about working with either?  
>>

Steve,
I put three coats of Cetol on my M15 about a year and a half ago, and it s=
till
looks great.  I found that preparation was more important than anything el=
se.
I probably spent more time masking than brushing.  I used the "blue" 3M
masking tape (there are some really bad blue imitations out there--stick w=
ith
the 3M), and was careful to get a good tight bond right up next to the woo=
d to
be coated.  The beauty of the blue 3M tape is that it will come up with a
minimum of effort, even after a week or so.  This is particularly importan=
t
with the Cetol because you must (should) wait at least 24 hours between co=
ats.
Make sure to clean up any accidents quickly, as the stuff is quite tenacio=
us
once dry.  If you can do the job indoors, so much the better, as Cetol is =
a
real dirt magnet until dry.  If you can't do it indoors, at least try to d=
o it
when there is little or no wind, and if possible, tarp the boat off while
drying.
As far as the Oxalic acid is concerned--be careful!  I used Teak Wonder's =
2
part cleaner and brightener.  The brightener is probably just oxalic or so=
me
other acid with a little dye thrown in.  In spite of following the
instructions and proceeding with extreme caution, I still managed to etch =
the
gel coat in a few spots.  If I were to do it again, I would mask/plastic o=
ff
some areas, and would only bleach a very small section at a time.
Anyway, I think you will be happy with the results.  The coloring may be a
little different than what you are used to, but the longevity of the produ=
ct
is nothing short of amazing.
Happy brushing,
Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Becker <beckerr@jps.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Words of Wisdom??
Date: 19 Oct 1998 09:37:16 +0000

Steve,
I put Cetol on my M15 last year with a final coat of Cetol gloss, and it
still looks great.  The gloss coat seemed to take forever to dry; it
hardened in 24 hours but the surface was still brittle for what seemed like
a month.  Then it finally hardened into a very durable finish, which I
really like.  I sailed after the first week and worried about the brittle
finish, but with no apparent harm.   I took off most of my brightwork rather
than mask, which seemed to work well.  I think this is about the best stuff
I have tried.

Bob
M15 #208



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rod&Elsa Johnson" <elsajohn@olympus.net>
Subject: M_Boats: M17 cruising
Date: 19 Oct 1998 09:42:05 -0700

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re: questions by Bill Riker

re: safety harness attachments  -  I put eye bolts in the cockpit floor =
on each end of the mainsheet traveler. I also put a long extension on my =
safety harness tether so I could go clear forward without unclipping =
because I figured on a small boat there is no way a tether will keep you =
aboard anyway and what you want, if you go overboard, is to end up at =
the transom where the boarding ladder is.

re: jib downhaul  -  the downhaul not only gives assurance that the jib =
will come all the way down even when full of wind, but it makes sure it =
will stay down. It is an alternative to going forward in the worst =
conditions to pull the sail down by hand and tie it down.With both the =
downhaul snug and at least one jib sheet snug the jib is not going to go =
anywhere - which sure beats going forward

re: bow rollers  -  I made a plank about  5" x 34" x 1.5", took up the =
forestay fitting and the mooring cleat, installed the plank and =
re-installed the fitting and cleat (using longer bolts). The rollers are =
mounted on the end of the plank, which sticks out far enough that an =
anchor hanging on a roller will not bang the boat. I use a Bruce as the =
main anchor and they are bad about doing that.

Hope that answers your questions, Bill, and I hope you get to cruising =
your M15. I have had more fun cruising my M17 than I ever had with any =
big boat!

Rod

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>re: questions by Bill =
Riker</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>re: safety harness attachments&nbsp; -&nbsp; I put =
eye bolts=20
in the cockpit floor on each end of the mainsheet traveler. I also put a =
long=20
extension on my safety harness tether so I could go clear forward =
without=20
unclipping because I figured on a small boat there is no way a tether =
will keep=20
you aboard anyway and what you want, if you go overboard, is to end up =
at the=20
transom where the boarding ladder is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>re: jib downhaul&nbsp; -&nbsp; the downhaul not only =
gives=20
assurance that the jib will come all the way down even when full of =
wind, but it=20
makes sure it will stay down. It is an alternative to going forward in =
the worst=20
conditions to pull the sail down by hand and tie it down.With both the =
downhaul=20
snug and at least one jib sheet snug the jib is not going to go anywhere =
- which=20
sure beats going forward</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>re: bow rollers&nbsp; -&nbsp; I made a plank =
about&nbsp;=20
5&quot; x 34&quot; x 1.5&quot;, took up the forestay fitting and the =
mooring=20
cleat, installed the plank and re-installed the fitting and cleat (using =
longer=20
bolts). The rollers are mounted on the end of the plank, which sticks =
out far=20
enough that an anchor hanging on a roller will not bang the boat. I use =
a Bruce=20
as the main anchor and they are bad about doing that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hope that answers your questions, Bill, and I hope =
you get to=20
cruising your M15. I have had more fun cruising my M17 than I ever had =
with any=20
big boat!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Rod</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DoorAriel@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Words of Wisdom??
Date: 19 Oct 1998 17:58:34 EDT

Heat the oxalic acid a little, wear gloves and a respirator wouldn't hurt --
the stuff is very poisonous.  Rinse thoroughly to remove remaining acid or the
finish may not dry properly.

Dick Straubel
M17 #253



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Fleming" <John_Fleming-P26166@email.mot.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 19 Oct 1998 15:20:53 -0700

Hi:

I'm a new member of this Mailing List.  My wife and I have a 1982
standard Montgomery 17, "Star Cross'd".  We sail it here in Arizona,
mostly at Roosevelt Lake.  I'd like to start taking it to San Diego for
the summer and the Sea of Cortez for the winter, but it's not quite
ready yet.

Star Cross'd is our first sailboat.  We bought it because we liked it
better than the other boats we saw.  We looked at various makes and
sizes 15-25 ft, and this seemed to fit just right.  It helped that our
friends introduced us to sailing on their Montgomery 15.  At the time we
didn't realize how distinctive it was compared to other makes.  Since
the production halt, Montgomery's have been hard to come by here in
Arizona, and people seem to want them bad.  Now we know why, because it
seems to have just the right qualities in a pocket cruiser.  As a local
story, there was a relatively new and clean M15 here for sale at the
local Sailboat Shop in Tempe, and it was only on the market for two
weeks, being bought sight unseen by some guy from California.  Every
time I bring the boat in for maintenance, everyone comes rushing out to
see if I want to sell it, and people who chat me up always ask
indirectly if I'm interested in selling.  The Shop says they have a
waiting list for used Montgomery's.

I like it the most.  My wife likes it because it's small and easily
handled, but she also doesn't like it because she's always bumping her
head and elbows, and with the two kids on board, there's no place for
her to retreat to (or keep the kids out of the way).  She wants a 25-27
footer with standup headroom.  But I'm not selling the M17.  I tell her
that to like this boat,  you have to move slow and you'll be fine.  Just
slow down, stay calm, and take it easy.  I should take my own advice.  I
came back from sailing this weekend with the usual collection of spot
bruises, chipped fingernails, and cuts and scratches.  Plus I broke the
tiller.  Seems like I'm always breaking something on that silly boat
with big, clumsy movements.  (That's why we call it "Star Cross'd".)

We've got two jibs (working and 95%), two genoas (150% and 180%), and a
tri-radial spinnaker.  We have fun trying to out-guess the winds on the
lake and swap the fore-sail.  In the space of 15 minutes, we can go from
the deck sweeper, to the 95% jib, to a single-reefed main.  We do that
more often and earlier now that we have kids (3 and 8) on board.
Before, we kept up way too much sail way too long, and struggled to keep
things under control, with water at the toe rails.  Sigh, I miss those
exciting days.

When we bought the boat, it was a little tired and needed plenty of
maintenance, too many little things had been neglected or been done
slap-dash over the years.  Four years later, I'm still figuring out what
maintenance is needed and working through the list.  But now I can say,
it's in better shape than when we bought it, and some day it will be
perfect (yeah, right).

I saw two articles in the recent archives I'd like to comment on.  We
recently replaced the wooden bunks on the Trailrite trailer.  It didn't
quite work out, because the amount of pre-curve is EXTREMELY critical.
We used 12 foot 2x6 redwood planks.  Anyway, on both boards, we ended up
with slightly too much curvature, putting undue pressure on the hull at
the ends of the bunks, especially the forward end.  (We could slip a
piece of paper through the middle, without seeing daylight between boat
and bunk, but not at the ends.  $500 dollars later, after repairing the
weakened hull, we added a middle support to the bunk, to keep the curve
correct and maintain proper weight distribution..  This is the way the
bunks are on the latest M15 Trailrite's (like that one I talked about
above), and I'd highly recommend it for the M17's where the bunks are
only supported on the ends.

Thanks to whoever it was who said how to singlehand a foresail change:
bear up until the foresail luffs, center the main, release the tiller,
and go forward to pull down the sail, effectively heaving to by moving
the center of effort and balance.  I'll try it on my next outing.

I've decided to take the plunge and replace the mast.  It had a
longitudinal twist and too many bad penetrations from the previous
owner.  Does any one have specs on the mast?  Lbs/foot, length, moments,
section (Sparcraft 104?) etc.  Also, since I'm there, I'd like to
increase the mast height 6 inches to a foot, keeping my same sails, in
order to raise the boom and make more room for a dodger and
mini-bimini.  If you're sailing in Arizona, it's important to manage
your sun exposure.

Does anyone have relevant experience or tips or info on a mast
changeout?  Thanks very much.

And on an administrative note, I'm probably going to change out my
E-Mail address to my home address for this mailing list.  I don't think
my company supports this kind of E-Mail list activity at work.
Regards,
--
John Fleming
John_Fleming@sat.mot.com
fleming_maine@worldnet.att.net     (Use this one!)






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doc Musekamp <docm@tcccom.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Fwd: Sail Quote
Date: 19 Oct 1998 18:09:38 -0500

Thought the list might be interested in this note I got from North Sails 
in response to an inquiry on new sails for my M17...I hadn't come across 
the concept of "minimum" pricing for sails before ??!!..In any event, I'm 
about halfway through the list archives (GREAT info, there by the 
way)..so a thread on sails has likely played out before, but anybody have 
exceptionally strong feelings on which sailmaker(s) know the boats well 
and build good sails ??..I'm thinking of a 150 for sure and possibly a 
new main to match..How popular are the CDI(or equivalent) jib furlers, 
out there in M-land ?? or is the simplicity of the hank on style with 
maybe a downhaul, still the way to go ??..Anybody ever try one of the 
Sailrite kits,by any chance ?? Might make a nice winter project..wonder 
what my wife has planned this winter ??!!..Thanks, Doc

Sent:        10/19/98 2:21 PM
Received:    10/19/98 5:12 PM


Hello Doc, 

Thanks again for your interest in North Sails.  I am with our "Midwest"
loft, now located in Chicago after many years in Pewaukee, WI, and still
service all of Wisconsin.  

Sailboats, Inc used to sell Montgomery's, and since they sent all of their
business to us I wouldn't be surprised if your boat has sails we made in
Pewaukee.  Unfortunately, we have a minimum price of $500 for any North
Sail, and I'm sure both your sails would be at minimum.   However, we do
have have another new division of the company called "Cruising Direct",
conceived specifically for good quality sails for small boats at a better
price.  Their minimum is only $300.  I suggest calling my friend Steve
Gilbert at 888-424-7328. 

If I can help further please let me know; certainly I'd be happy to mail a
package of info, including a Cruising Direct brochure.  

Sincerely, Perry Lewis

North Sails Midwest
1665 N. Elston Ave
Chicago, IL 60622
773-489-1308
Fax 489-9820








-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 19 Oct 1998 19:30:41 EDT

John

	I tried your new E-mail address..............it came back.  I have an M-23 in
Gilbert, Az.........drop me a line 

Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Fleming" <John_Fleming-P26166@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 19 Oct 1998 16:52:17 -0700

You wrote:

> John
>
>         I tried your new E-mail address..............it came back.  I have an M-23 in
> Gilbert, Az.........drop me a line
>
> Lenny

 Oops, sorry about that!

fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net

The only time I saw a M23 was from the outside out at the drydock storage at Roosevelt.

I'd be interested in seeing the differences and hearing what you think.  The only thing
I know
was what Jerry Montgomery wrote in his little history he wrote up several years ago and
sent to me.
If you haven't seen it, I could dig it up and E-Mail you the quotes.
--
Regards,
--
John Fleming
Systems Engineering
Advanced Systems Division





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: deck failure on m-15
Date: 19 Oct 1998 20:52:33 -0400

Whoa!!! This is not a nice story.  Any repair that runs from the cabin to=
p
to the forward deck has got to approach the cost of the boat!

Has this ever been reported on a Montgomery before this?

I assume that to prevent this we should recaulk all through deck hardware=

periodically.  How often should this be done?

Thanks,

Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: deck failure on m-15
Date: 19 Oct 1998 21:19:10 EDT

Doug
	DIY magazine has an article this month about sealing and bedding deck
fittings......suggest you use 3M 4200.............seals like polyurethane, but
allows later removal of fittings..............sorry to hear about your
problem..........

Lenny 
M-23 # 003
Sea Horse



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Don Haas <dshaas@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Oregon almost sailing
Date: 19 Oct 1998 22:54:13 -0700

Fern Ridge was about the only place we sailed this year, even though its
a long tow from Oregon City.   We rented a slip at Richardson Point
Marina and kept the boat there from August through Labor Day, making
several overnight trips down.  Sometimes we camped, sometimes slept on
the boat. ,  There are locking gates to the docks and restrooms, showers
and picnic facilities right there.  Richard Campground is 100 yards away
if you want to camp, both tents and RV are accomodated.  The ramp is
excellent and there has always been plenty of trailer parking.  There
even have the telephone pole gizzy to step masts on big boats.  There are
very few power boats zooming around, especially once you get away from
the day use areas.   There is usually wind. (see the following
description I lifted for the Eugene Yacht Club web site).  and swampy
areas at one end with some great bird watching if your into that sort of
thing.  I think I posted some of those experiences earlier this summer.
Drawbacks.  Like Cooper Creek, Fern Ridge is drained starting in Oct and
refilled sometime in spring.  Another is the green stuff that adhears to
anything under water.  After just a month the bottom of Dream Catcher was
solid green.  I haven't sailed on the Columbia for many years, but if it
is a nice day there will be lots of power boats clogging up the river.
Maybe someone else has had a more recent Cloumbia experience.  Call
Rhonda at Richardson Point to get slip pricing and availibility -
541-935-3130.  Have you checked the phonebook, maybe there is a
Nordstroms in Eugene.

Don Haas, M15-248
Dream Catcher

**** From EYC *****
Fern Ridge Lake lies at the south end
of the 100-mile long Willamette Valley.

The local geography:
North and East: flat flood plain
South and West: hills

There are three major wind patterns:

1. The clear weather pattern: This is the most predominant condition in
the summer. The wind starts light in the morning and gets stronger in the
afternoon as the sun's warmth fuels the thermals up the valleys in the
hills to the south and west. It normally blows out of the north from 6-16
knots. One butte lies at the northwest corner of the lake next to the dam
and generates moderate 5-15 degree wind shifts, which occasionally may
reach 30 degrees. The puffs come from the right, mostly. Late afternoon
the wind may back as it drops in velocity. If there is not dew on the
ground in the early morning, the winds will be gusty. A couple of hours
before sunset, the wind will temporarily pick up, moving to the west or
southwest, and be quite frisky, until the sun touches the horizon, at
which time it veers back north and usually shuts off.

2. The stormy weather pattern: This lasts for a day to a day and a half
and comes from the west at 10-20 knots. Shifts do occur in this pattern
as well, but seem to be more subtle and are most likely influenced by the
thermal downdrafts and channeling caused by the various small valleys to
the west. The shifts range about 5-10 degrees.

3. The light air pattern: This breeze is created by the passing of a high
pressure cell with a front building off-shore on the Pacific. In this
pattern, the weather system winds are trying to establish themselves from
the south to southeast, but the thermal north winds fight them. This
causes light and shifty winds that last until either the front comes in
and pattern 2 arrives or until the front dissipates and the first pattern
fills in. On rare occasions, an east wind will come out of this
condition. This pattern usually lasts about 2-3 hours.

Common knowledge dictates that under conditions #1, hang west. Under
conditions #2, hang south. These basic rules seem to work, except when
they don't. Just when you think you've got it all figured out, and you
hold the left side of the course longer than anyone else, someone goes up
the right side and makes out like a bandit. Under conditions #3, anything
goes. Luck prevails. Overall, the winds are delightful and present an
added element to the game of sailing that goes beyond go-fasts and boat
speed. A quick and observant crew can read the wind and capitalize on it
to gain boat lengths on competitors.

The above analysis was first published by Charles Howard for the 1986
S-20 Class Championships in Eugene. They have since been reworked and
revised by Ron Fish, Paul Stephens, and many observant and aspiring
meteorologists. The basic premises, however, still prevail.
*********************

>






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: deck failure on m-15
Date: 20 Oct 1998 10:10:00 EDT

...i reported this sad event...the failure is the result i believe of water
penetrating core, delamination on inside of cabin, compression from mast...but
most of all inadequate strength in the cabin top to take the load...plan to
beef up with cca treated plywood and treated 2 X 6 from the inside and all
thru bolted...the front deck softness may just be the lightness of
construction...but the reality is...there is a hole in the cabin top!!!!



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: deck failure on m-15
Date: 20 Oct 1998 07:22:39 -0700

Doug,
Though I'm new to the M's, I do know a bit about this problem. (Rot in balsa)
It was common to use balsa, due to its lightness and relative compression
strength in end-grain, as a stiffener material .  Some makers still use it,
most have gone to construction foam cores, like Airex.  
The problem is that it's highly susceptible to rot is any moisture is
allowed to get at it.   However, once a deck fitting is properly bedded,
you shouldn't have to worry about it unless replace the fitting.   You can
check for the rot problem by searching for soft spots, that is areas that
seem a bit more flexible than the surrounding area, or-better, I think-it
to tap with a round object like a screw driver handle and listen to the
sound, which changes to a dull note when you encounter rot.  This works in
wood as well as glass.    You need only be concerned if someone has added a
fitting without bedding, or if a screw or bolt has loosened; it either is
true, simply pull the offender and re-bed.
Lee
M15  Puppy 326




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Rot
Date: 20 Oct 1998 07:34:30 -0700

The failure of the cabin top was due to rot, not a weak structure.   The
way the M's are cabin top is designed it is incredibly strong.   You should
consider getting a professional to look at the problem to at least asses
the extent of the rot.   This would save you from having to re-do the whole
thing if you don't find and cut out All of the bad area.    Also, unless
you've worked with both materials, fiberglass and core materials, you could
make a mess of things.   
I'm not laying a negative trip on you, only warning you to consider
everything carefully before you start, and remember, there are a lot of M's
out there without an internal mast support.   Why take up cabin space if
you don't have to?
Best of luck,
Lee
M15  Puppy  326




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wilsometer@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 20 Oct 1998 13:20:08 EDT


In a message dated 10/19/98 3:19:20 PM, you wrote:

<<I've decided to take the plunge and replace the mast.  It had a
longitudinal twist and too many bad penetrations from the previous
owner.  Does any one have specs on the mast?  Lbs/foot, length, moments,
section (Sparcraft 104?) etc.  Also, since I'm there, I'd like to
increase the mast height 6 inches to a foot, keeping my same sails, in
order to raise the boom and make more room for a dodger and
mini-bimini.  If you're sailing in Arizona, it's important to manage
your sun exposure.

Does anyone have relevant experience or tips or info on a mast
changeout?  Thanks very much.>>

John,
Welcome. I do not have specs for the M17 mast, but if I remember correctly=
,
Sparcraft is no longer.  I recently helped a friend replace the mast on hi=
s
M15 (bent mast was *my* fault--too embarrassing to go into).  He ordered a
mast of  the same physical dimensions from Dwyer Spars.  Even though it wa=
s
very, very close in dimension, it still required a little modification to =
fit.
It also required purchasing their masthead unit, as the inside wall thickn=
ess
was different on the Dwyer.  Dwyer has a website (that escapes me at the
moment).  Maybe someone else that has done this on an M17 can be of more h=
elp.
Happy sailing,
Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wilsometer@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 20 Oct 1998 13:23:34 EDT


In a message dated 10/19/98 4:50:56 PM, you wrote:

<<The only thing
I know
was what Jerry Montgomery wrote in his little history he wrote up several
years ago and
sent to me.
If you haven't seen it, I could dig it up and E-Mail you the quotes.>>

I would be interested in seeing thi history.  Does it include boats other =
than
the M23?
Thanks,
Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wilsometer@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re:  M_Boats: deck failure on m-15
Date: 20 Oct 1998 13:52:32 EDT


In a message dated 10/20/98 7:11:43 AM, you wrote:

<<...i reported this sad event...the failure is the result i believe of wa=
ter
penetrating core, delamination on inside of cabin, compression from mast..=
.but
most of all inadequate strength in the cabin top to take the load...plan t=
o
beef up with cca treated plywood and treated 2 X 6 from the inside and all
thru bolted...the front deck softness may just be the lightness of
construction...but the reality is...there is a hole in the cabin top!!!!>>

I have a 1991 M15 that was stored (unused) for the first six years of its
life.  The deck and house have no flex whatsoever.  I suspect that Jerry t=
ook
the added strength provided by the crown of the cabin into consideration i=
n
his design.  My cabin has a thicker core in the area under the mast, and o=
ut
to, and down, the cabin sides.
I am sorry to hear of your dilemma, and I don't mean to diminish your
situation in any way, but it would seem that the failure was not a functio=
n of
inadequate strength in construction, but rather inadequate bedding/sealing=
 of
deck fittings.
In addition to bedding/sealing the fittings, there is another precautionar=
y
measure that folks might want to consider.  It involves removing the deck
fittings, masking (covering) the through-deck holes on the inside of the
cabin, and pouring (dripping) PENETRATING (not normal) Epoxy into the hole=
s.
This has the effect of creating a barrier in the balsa surrounding the fit=
ting
holes, and should not allow any absorption even if the deck sealant or bed=
ding
should fail.  This sounds like a good winter project (in a heated garage!)=
.
Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Fleming" <John_Fleming-P26166@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 20 Oct 1998 11:44:27 -0700



Wilsometer@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/19/98 3:19:20 PM, you wrote:
>
> <<I've decided to take the plunge and replace the mast.  It had a
> longitudinal twist and too many bad penetrations from the previous
> owner.  Does any one have specs on the mast?  Lbs/foot, length, moments=
,
> section (Sparcraft 104?) etc.
> Does anyone have relevant experience or tips or info on a mast
> changeout?  Thanks very much.>>
>
> John,
> Welcome. I do not have specs for the M17 mast, but if I remember correc=
tly,
> Sparcraft is no longer.  I recently helped a friend replace the mast on=
 his
> M15 (bent mast was *my* fault--too embarrassing to go into).  He ordere=
d a
> mast of  the same physical dimensions from Dwyer Spars.  Even though it=
 was
> very, very close in dimension, it still required a little modification =
to fit.
> It also required purchasing their masthead unit, as the inside wall thi=
ckness
> was different on the Dwyer.

Right.  I already had to replace the original Montgomery masthead unit (i=
t was
bent and cracked and ready to fail, and I was trying to avoid a dismastin=
g), with
a 4-sheave Dwyer model D106.  The mast that is very close is the DM-6 (fo=
r the
M17, I don't know the M15, but it might be the DM-4).  I had to file down=
 the aft
portions of the masthead insert to get it to fit into the original mast. =
 I must
say, the Dwyer masthead is a brute compared to that lightweight original.=
  I
won't ever have to worry about the mast head again.  Except that now that=
 I'm
getting a new mast, I'll need another new masthead (!) because my first D=
wyer
won't fit properly.Also, for the M17, the original masthead had integral =
shroud
attach points.  The Dwyer D106 does not.  I investigated getting a new ca=
sting of
the masthead locally, but it was too expensive, so we had to add some tan=
gs to
the top of the mast and get new upper shrouds.  I think that was the prox=
imate
cause that got us to track down Jerry Montgomery, to ask him if he had an=
y more
mastheads, or at least had the mold, and he said he didn't.  So I wonder =
what Bob
Eeg at Nor'Sea is doing?

My question was more along the lines of is there a difference in wall thi=
ckness
and stiffness,
leading to either more or less weight aloft, and changes in resultant boa=
t
stability;  or changes in the strength/weakness of the mast from bending.=
  The
masthead is now $92.10, and the DM-6 mast is $20/foot.

> Dwyer has a website (that escapes me at the
> moment).  Maybe someone else that has done this on an M17 can be of mor=
e help.

http://www.csiworld.com/dwyer/ will get you there.

> Happy sailing,
> Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9"

You too.  And don't forget, the toe rails are thirsty and you have to giv=
e them a
drink of water once in a while. Yee hah!  On our lake, it's controlled by=
 the
gods, and they make sure that the rails get their ration.
--
Regards,
--
John Fleming
M17:  "Star Cross'd"
fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Fleming" <John_Fleming-P26166@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 20 Oct 1998 11:46:15 -0700

Wilsometer@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 10/19/98 4:50:56 PM, you wrote:
>
> <<The only thing
> I know was what Jerry Montgomery wrote in his little history he wrote u=
p
> several
> years ago and sent to me.
> If you haven't seen it, I could dig it up and E-Mail you the quotes.>>
>
> I would be interested in seeing thi history.  Does it include boats oth=
er than
> the M23?
> Thanks,
> Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "b=E9b=E9

 It's mostly what Ken Diehl has in the archive, plus a little more.  M15,=
 17, and
23.
--
Regards,
--
John Fleming
Systems Engineering
Advanced Systems Division





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Fleming" <John_Fleming-P26166@email.mot.com>
Subject: M_Boats: More M17 Trailrite mods
Date: 20 Oct 1998 11:59:13 -0700

I forgot to mention, I did another well deserved modification to the M17
Trailrite trailer for my 1982 M17.  I put in keel guides, so that when
retrieving the hull and keel are now always centered on the supports.
The guys at the shop welded on some channel stock, and we have two
boards going from the rear of the trailer, and meeting just past the
keel roller, with just enough space for the keel to slip into.  The keel
just slips in perfect now.

I can't tell you how many times I sat there cussing on the launch ramp,
to-ing and fro-ing, back and forth, trying to get the keel centered.
With the guides, it's a no-brainer, I don't even think about it.  The
hardest part is preparing (shaping and preserving) the wood.  The next
hardest part is trying to get the attach bolts to slide into the
stainless tee-nuts without cross-threading.
--
Regards,
--
John Fleming
M17:  "Star Cross'd"
fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Diehl" <kdiehl@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 20 Oct 1998 13:09:52 -0600

Take a look at 

http://www.xmission.com/pub/lists/montgomery_boats/archive/M17-Hi
story.txt

I think it's the same.

----------


In a message dated 10/19/98 4:50:56 PM, you wrote:

<<The only thing
I know
was what Jerry Montgomery wrote in his little history he wrote
up several
years ago and
sent to me.
If you haven't seen it, I could dig it up and E-Mail you the
quotes.>>

I would be interested in seeing thi history.  Does it include
boats other than
the M23?
Thanks,
Scott Grometer, M15 #478 "bébé


----------




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 20 Oct 1998 20:21:49 -0400

The M17 mast question was answered by Jerry just last month. Here it is.
"The 17 uses the old Sparcraft 104 section, which is used by W.D.Schock
on the Santana 20, and by McGregor on the McGregor 26.  Also, you might
contact Bob Eeg of Nor'Sea Yachts (see CC above) to see if he has found
a less-expensive source.  Be nice to use the same section so that the
old hardware will fit, and the 104 is a very good section that has not
been improved upon."

Jerry

Thanks,

Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: suthdrug@rosenet.net
Subject: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 23 Oct 1998 06:24:02 GMT

Hello... Is anybody out there?
     Since joining this list and buying an M17 I have been happily scurrying 
home at the end of the long days at work and bringing up the continuing saga of 
the joys, trials, and tribulations of the the Montgomry owners group. However, 
when I logged on tonight I went to the cupboard and the cupboard was bare!!!! I 
didn't think not having my daily dose of "list" would be this bad. I mean I'm 
hooked on this list worse than I was on Star Trek when I was in college.
I've noticed that at certain times (usually late at night when any reasonable 
person would be in bed sleeping) it's all grabbing me like an off-base soap 
opera." Will Dick ever be happy with his centerboard or will he start looking 
for satisfaction elswhere?" " Is Doc going to meet the sailmaker of his dreams
or is he going to have to keep buying lottery tickets?" " Will Bert really sell 
Kokopelli or will he have a last minute change of heart?( I hope so, I would 
hate to lose him from this list!)" " Am I ever going to get this boat in the 
water or is Judi going to turn it into the largest planter in West-central 
Oregon?" 
     Anyways try not to let the Winter months slow down your chatter too much.
It's nice to come home and be able to see that there are some people as wound 
up and dreamy about their boats as I am. 
                         
                                      Ian from Oregon
                                       M17 #343
                                       "Seaweeble"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fritz Stuneck <fritzs@minn.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 23 Oct 1998 05:09:02 -0600

Glad to see you asked cause I was just wondering the same thing?  Must be
just slowing down. In MN all the boats are being pulled right now. 
Fritz in MN 
Reply to: fritzs@minn.net



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: FLOTATION
Date: 23 Oct 1998 03:05:37 -0700

Does anyone know what kind of flotation was used in the M15 to give
positive buoyancy?
How much was used?
I've not been able to find anything but the foam closed cell here in San
Diego.  
Lee
M15  Puppy 326




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 23 Oct 1998 11:31:29 EDT

Ian

Take heart.....there's always something going on................the
list......LOL

Lenny
M-23 # 003
Sea Horse



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Francene Lebowitz <dlebowitz@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 23 Oct 1998 08:46:22 -0700

suthdrug@rosenet.net wrote:
> 
> Hello... Is anybody out there?
>      Since joining this list and buying an M17 I have been happily scurrying
> home at the end of the long days at work and bringing up the continuing saga of
> the joys, trials, and tribulations of the the Montgomry owners group. However,
> when I logged on tonight I went to the cupboard and the cupboard was bare!!!! I
> didn't think not having my daily dose of "list" would be this bad. I mean I'm
> hooked on this list worse than I was on Star Trek when I was in college.
> I've noticed that at certain times (usually late at night when any reasonable
> person would be in bed sleeping) it's all grabbing me like an off-base soap
> opera." Will Dick ever be happy with his centerboard or will he start looking
> for satisfaction elswhere?" " Is Doc going to meet the sailmaker of his dreams
> or is he going to have to keep buying lottery tickets?" " Will Bert really sell
> Kokopelli or will he have a last minute change of heart?( I hope so, I would
> hate to lose him from this list!)" " Am I ever going to get this boat in the
> water or is Judi going to turn it into the largest planter in West-central
> Oregon?"
>      Anyways try not to let the Winter months slow down your chatter too much.
> It's nice to come home and be able to see that there are some people as wound
> up and dreamy about their boats as I am.
> 
>                                       Ian from Oregon
>                                        M17 #343
>                                        "Seaweeble"
Ditto, Ian. I even went so far as to email Keith Diehl who manages the
list- thought something was wrong there or with my mailbox. Glad to find
out it was just a lull. It is nice to read about all the trials and
tribulations of those who love these boats. When I eventually buy one, I
hope to contribute. You definitely have a way with words- and a sense of
humor to boot. 
A belated welcome! 
Fran
M15 wanna be owner



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 23 Oct 1998 12:13:54 -0400

Hi John..

>>> It's mostly what Ken Diehl has in the archive, plus a little more. 
M15, 17, and
23.<<<

Shux, John..post it..I'd love to read it...

  Harvey/ Ga.

M-17  Stargazer  #294



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Hi!  I'm a new member of the list
Date: 23 Oct 1998 12:13:55 -0400

Hi John..

Welcome to the group.  Like you, the M-17 is my first sail boat.  I took
sailing lessons, then joined the schools sailing club for a year.  Mostly
22 ft. Catalinas, Capris, Hunters, and assorted larger boats.

I wanted a trailerable, smaller boat for my own, and looked at Compacs and
18ft. Capris, Precision 18 and a few others.

To make a long story shorter, Larry Barkhuff, from this group, talked to me
about a M-17 and sent me a copy of the brochure.  As luck would have it, a
cyber-friend from Florida sent me a copy of the Florida Sailboat Trader
with Precisions in it...and a lone M-17!!  I contacted the M-17 owner, had
an agreement with him, drove 600 miles to Ft. Myers..it was all they said
about it...and towed it home.

Like your wife, the Admiral would like a larger boat.  She likes the size
of the cockpit, but the cabin is too small...remember, we learned on
Capri/Catalina 22's.  I'd like to go up to a M-23, but the only one that I
found (in Fla. again) didn't have a trailer.  Also found a 1980 Ericson 25+
on my lake very reasonably priced, and she says to get it...but doesn't
understand why I want to keep the M-17 as well ! 

 Harvey/ Ga.

M-17  Stargazer  #294



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dan Diehlman" <dand@csufresno.edu>
Subject: M_Boats: Rejoice
Date: 23 Oct 1998 12:58:32 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Montgomery owners,
    Last week I had cause to rejoice in having a small boat (M15). My =
son enlisted me to help bring his boat home. I have had large boats in =
the past and this incident gave me cause to rejoice in the fact that I =
now have a small boat.
His boat is a Santa Cruz 27, fast, with full kneeling headroom. First =
requirement is a 3/4 ton truck to pull it, secondly to use a 50 ft line =
to let the trailer disappear from sight into the lake, then the critical =
positioning of the boat on the trailer, then inching it out, chocking =
the wheels, reattaching it to the truck, then up to the "ready"area, =
where very careful use of the gin pole allows dropping the very heavy =
mast, then pulling it home with the truck working rather hard. All of =
this to be followed by much sanding of the bottom, application of new =
bottom paint, and the reverse procress.
    Yes, he is faster on the water than my small boat....but I wouldn't =
trade even.
                Dan


------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BDFE84.D6E65780
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<HEAD>

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Montgomery owners,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Last week I had =
cause to=20
rejoice in having a small boat (M15). My son enlisted me to help bring =
his boat=20
home. I have had large boats in the past and this incident gave me cause =
to=20
rejoice in the fact that I now have a small boat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>His boat is a Santa Cruz 27, fast, =
with full=20
kneeling headroom. First requirement is a 3/4 ton truck to pull it, =
secondly to=20
use a 50 ft line to let the trailer disappear from sight into the lake, =
then the=20
critical positioning of the boat on the trailer, then inching it out, =
chocking=20
the wheels, reattaching it to the truck, then up to the =
&quot;ready&quot;area,=20
where very careful use of the gin pole allows dropping the very heavy =
mast, then=20
pulling it home with the truck working rather hard. All of this to be =
followed=20
by much sanding of the bottom, application of new bottom paint, and the =
reverse=20
procress.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes, he is faster =
on the=20
water than my small boat....but I wouldn't trade even.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DoorAriel@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rejoice
Date: 23 Oct 1998 18:02:47 EDT

Your "rejoice" note caught my attention because I have a twenty-six foot full
keel boat named "Rejoice."  It is a great boat, but I too have moved down to
an M17.  I still have "Rejoice," and will sail her again, but this last summer
she stayed in storage (on a heavy trailer at the house), and I devoted full
attention to M17 "Atta Baby!"  What a great summer!

Dick



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Rejoice
Date: 23 Oct 1998 18:53:09 -0400

Your right on!!

        In this season so far I have crusied on Cape Cod for three days, =
10
days on the Pax river on the southern Chesapeak and 4 days on the Chester=

river in the central Chesapeak and this doesn't include the daysails. =

Minimu hassel, maximum use and the boats at home to see me off to work
every day! =


        I think about moving up from time to time and if the M17 would go=

in my garage as nicely as the 15 I might try it.  =

        I would enjoy the pleasure of cruising an M23 but that may have t=
o
wait until I formally retire.  Right now I'm only retired on weekends. :)=


Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 23 Oct 1998 18:53:15 -0400

I don't know about the other members but I am contemplating some half bak=
ed
ideas for my M15 improvements for the winter (Christmas).

I only have the original sails from 1984 and the last time I sailed with
another M15 I was left in the dust.  He had new sails.

But I would like to try a trip to the Dry Tortugas and need downwind self=

steering for the 60 nm run.  If I bought a new jib could I use the old an=
d
new jib as twin staysails and rig sheet to tiller steering?
The positives are it is cheaper than two staysails.
The negatives are the visbility is cut down and the foot of the sails are=

low to the water and might catch a wave and  take the mast with it.  Is
this feasable?

My motor is also an 1984 Johnson 2 hp and it's a noisy gas hog.  I recent=
ly
went to the Annapolis sailboat show and saw Lin and Larry Pardee's world
class cruising boat with no motor. This 30 ft heavy wooden boat only uses=
 a
sculling oar.  Could I live with this?  Has anyone else used a sculling o=
ar
on an M15 or M15?

Any other thoughts out there on these subjects?

Doug
"Seas the Day"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: FLOTATION
Date: 23 Oct 1998 18:53:12 -0400

Lee,

        I don't know a part number or anything but the blocks under the
cockpit are 6'X9"X26" blocks of styrafoam.  The closed cell foam you are
describing should be more durable and would do the job.  If you put in th=
e
equivalent of this volume X2 ( my M15 came with two of these blocks) you
would be ok. The blocks are this size so that they will not easily come
out.
         I believe from your earlier description someone removed the
floation in the bow as well.Check under the plywood panel forward of the
porta potti location and check.  If you fill in this space with closed ce=
ll
foam it will ensure a more even foatation.  I do like the idea of shaping=

this foam to protect a couple bottles of wine.
        Does wine float?

Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Fleming" <John_Fleming-P26166@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rejoice
Date: 23 Oct 1998 16:52:52 -0700



Doug Kelch wrote:

> In this season so far I have crusied on Cape Cod for three days, 10
> days on the Pax river on the southern Chesapeak and 4 days on the Chester
> river in the central Chesapeak and this doesn't include the daysails.
> Minimu hassel, maximum use and the boats at home to see me off to work
> every day!

Maybe an M-15 is better and easier to deal with than the M-17.  Maybe I'm
doing something wrong.  When I'm sailing on the lake, I have to drop the sails
at 3:30 and fire up the iron wind if I'm to make it out of the drydock
boatyard by 6:30.  And deeper into winter here (remember, in Arizona, the
sailing season is reversed from everywhere else, and we sail fall, winter, and
spring), the drydock yard closes at 5 PM, and we have to start working back by
2PM.  And then it's a two-hour drive home.  There's just so much to do:
a) motor to the launch ramp, jump out, and wade ashore,
b) get the car and wait in line at the launch ramp,
c) put the trailer in the water, wait for the boat to arrive upon the trailer,

d) pull the boat out of the water and to staging area,
e) unpack kids, dogs, food, clothes and miscellanea from the boat, stow the
motor, fold the sails,
f) pack the car, close up the boat, put the cover on and tie it down,
g) apologize to the wife for yelling sometime during all this activity,
g) drive the boat to the yard and play the "back it into the zero-clearance
slot" follies,
h) wash up, clean up, feed the kids and the dog, and prepare for the drive
home.

And somewhere in there, there's usually one or two nit-noy repairs that have
to be attended to.

Sometimes I think we spend more time fooling with the boat and working for it,
rather than it working for us.  The time spent on the water must be really
precious to go through all the folderol on shore.

Then, when I go to the sailboat shop and crawl through the 26' footers, I'm
always so much happier when I leave, knowing that I can do everything myself
on my little dinky M17, and it's lightweight and small and easily wrestled
into submission.  I'm so happy I just skip out of there, knowing I'm not like
all those other suckers who end up with ulcers from the stress of launching
and retrieving their big 26 footers.
--
Regards,
--
John Fleming
M-17: "Star Cross'd"
fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sandyal55@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 23 Oct 1998 20:07:37 EDT

Doug;  I have concerns about you going to the Tortuga's with any M15 or 17.
When I went on a 36' ketch, we motored(no wind) for 24 hours from Boca Grande
only to have 4-6' waves in the last 3 hours of the trip. The winds suddenly
piped up to 25+ which made the approach to the anchorage fun. There are no
provisions which means no fuel should you need any. No water either. We waited
3 days to leave only to get hit with a winter norther, 45-50 knot winds, and
waves 12-15'. This would be verrrry dangerous in your boat. Good luck if you
decide to try it. It has been done in small boats but pick your season and
weather well.     Sandy 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 23 Oct 1998 22:01:26 -0700

Doug,

Are you sure you want a big sweep on your boat?

Steve

>I don't know about the other members but I am contemplating some half baked
>ideas for my M15 improvements for the winter (Christmas).
>
>I only have the original sails from 1984 and the last time I sailed with
>another M15 I was left in the dust.  He had new sails.
>
>But I would like to try a trip to the Dry Tortugas and need downwind self
>steering for the 60 nm run.  If I bought a new jib could I use the old and
>new jib as twin staysails and rig sheet to tiller steering?
>The positives are it is cheaper than two staysails.
>The negatives are the visbility is cut down and the foot of the sails are
>low to the water and might catch a wave and  take the mast with it.  Is
>this feasable?
>
>My motor is also an 1984 Johnson 2 hp and it's a noisy gas hog.  I recently
>went to the Annapolis sailboat show and saw Lin and Larry Pardee's world
>class cruising boat with no motor. This 30 ft heavy wooden boat only uses a
>sculling oar.  Could I live with this?  Has anyone else used a sculling oar
>on an M15 or M15?
>
>Any other thoughts out there on these subjects?
>
>Doug
>"Seas the Day"
>
>
>





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Floatation
Date: 24 Oct 1998 07:22:19 -0700

Doug, 
Thanks for responding.  
My note was poorly worded; I meant that the only closed cell foam available
here is the foam-in-place kind, and I don't want to put in anything
permanent.   I'll check out the material you suggested.   Seems small
thought, in cubic feet, that is.   This is not really a big deal in San
Diego.   Winds and wave conditions are rarely frightening.   I'm used to
sailing in San Francisco bay, and that can get really hairy.   But my mate
would feel better with a bit of positive buoyancy.
I may have Puppy ready to go into the water late next week.   Really
looking forward to that.
Thanks again.
Lee
M15  Puppy  #326

 




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sailcrzy@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: Re: M-17  Sculling/sweep oar
Date: 24 Oct 1998 10:25:24 EDT

	Out here on lake mead I sailed my "17" with an oar for a year and a half!
It moved along quite nicely too!  Mount an oar lock on the transom and another
on one on your favorite side of the cockpit. Refer to Pardee's book
"The capable Cruiser" for details.  You'll probably have to make your oar to
get the correct length. (About 14')  My friend and I became very adept at
sailing where most people were afraid to go!  Another advantage to a smaller
boat!   The only problems were; completely windless days, having to row back a
long way, and, sometimes, getting back on the trailer.   These things were not
a problem for the Pardee's because they don't trailer, don't daysail, and
where ever they are becalmed, they're already home!

I later got a motor but still had the oar as a backup.  The added sailing
ability's we developed from using an oar were worth it!

Chuck
Sailcrzy@aol.com 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sailcrzy@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rejoice
Date: 24 Oct 1998 10:29:15 EDT

Amen to that brother!!




Chuck
Sailcrzy@aol.com



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry smith <jmsmith@epix.net>
Subject: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 24 Oct 1998 10:44:58 -0400

I stumbled onto Keith Diehl's Homepage last night and decided to check
out  the Montgomery boats some more after reading his page.  I did
severl searched but didn't come up with much.  Are there sites that have
more information and pictures, and maybe some for sale listings?


Thanks
Jerry Smith




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bryan Harstad" <bharstad@minn.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Floatation
Date: 24 Oct 1998 09:46:44 -0000

I was told that a cubic yard is suppose to displace 2000 pounds.
I  never confirmed that.   All you have to do is find out how much a
cubic yard of water weighs.

Bryan

-----Original Message-----
<montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>


>Doug,
>Thanks for responding.
>My note was poorly worded; I meant that the only closed cell foam available
>here is the foam-in-place kind, and I don't want to put in anything
>permanent.   I'll check out the material you suggested.   Seems small
>thought, in cubic feet, that is.   This is not really a big deal in San
>Diego.   Winds and wave conditions are rarely frightening.   I'm used to
>sailing in San Francisco bay, and that can get really hairy.   But my mate
>would feel better with a bit of positive buoyancy.
>I may have Puppy ready to go into the water late next week.   Really
>looking forward to that.
>Thanks again.
>Lee
>M15  Puppy  #326
>
>
>
>




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mont15@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 24 Oct 1998 10:55:19 EDT

Jerry,

I have a beautiful 1984, extremely well equiped M 15.  I live in the San
Francisco Bay Area.  If you want any information, let me know.

Bert
510-339-7050 or e mail me



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry smith <jmsmith@epix.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Floatation
Date: 24 Oct 1998 11:10:05 -0400

1687lbs/cu. yd. fresh water

Bryan Harstad wrote:

> I was told that a cubic yard is suppose to displace 2000 pounds.
> I  never confirmed that.   All you have to do is find out how much a
> cubic yard of water weighs.
>
> Bryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: L. Ingalls <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
> To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
> <montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>
> Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 2:23 PM
> Subject: M_Boats: Floatation
>
> >Doug,
> >Thanks for responding.
> >My note was poorly worded; I meant that the only closed cell foam available
> >here is the foam-in-place kind, and I don't want to put in anything
> >permanent.   I'll check out the material you suggested.   Seems small
> >thought, in cubic feet, that is.   This is not really a big deal in San
> >Diego.   Winds and wave conditions are rarely frightening.   I'm used to
> >sailing in San Francisco bay, and that can get really hairy.   But my mate
> >would feel better with a bit of positive buoyancy.
> >I may have Puppy ready to go into the water late next week.   Really
> >looking forward to that.
> >Thanks again.
> >Lee
> >M15  Puppy  #326
> >
> >
> >
> >






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Water Wts.
Date: 24 Oct 1998 17:26:58 -0700

Sea water weights 64 lbs. per cubic foot.
That works out close, about 1800 pounds.
Thanks Bryan, now I have to find the foam.
Lee
M15  Puppy #326





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rejoice
Date: 24 Oct 1998 22:37:37 EDT

Hey gang.........if anybody is interested, I have a used mainsail from my ol'
17.  It has a few small tears that can be easily repaired, or just keep it as
is for a backup.  I was going to send it to that place in Pa. and have it
reconditioned.......I've seen their work and it is exquisite.......and
reasonable.  Make offer + s/h and I will send ups or us mail.

Lenny
M-23 # 003
Sea Horse



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Water Wts.
Date: 24 Oct 1998 22:40:09 EDT

Lee

As an alternative I have heard of using inflatable bladders in lieu of foam.
Put 'em in, blow 'em up, and sail away....

Lenny
M-23 # 003
Sea Horse



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: M_Boats: Brightwork
Date: 24 Oct 1998 20:19:24 -0700

Now that the rain is back in Oregon, it's a fine time to putter on boat
projects.  I had a nice fire in the shop woodstove, a nip of bourbon and
branch water, the tappet brothers on NPR, and my Labrador Retrievers under
foot.  Every day's a holiday and every meal is a banquet.  It could only be
better if I was sailing.

My thanks to all who responded to my question about refinishing the
brightwork on a M15.  The oxalic acid works nicely to bleach the teak back
to more original colors, and the Cetol Marine looks great.  I did pull the
toe rails off, and experienced no problems other than fighting with the rock
hard bedding compound.  I am not sure what was there before, but it's ugly
when you try to get it smooth.

My boat does not yet have a battery or lights.  Any suggestions on this
topic?  I am also interested in installing a bow pulpit to hang the lights.
Does anyone have a source?  

Regards,

Steve
M15 - 159 Sojornen





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sandyal55@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Brightwork
Date: 25 Oct 1998 01:17:37 EDT

The old bedding compound(rock hard) was probably 3M 5200. If you use Life
Caulk, It doesn't harden and is removeable years later. It also stays flexable
and cures without moisture. I've used it in AZ for our trailerable boats and
highly recommend it.  Sandy



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 25 Oct 1998 08:37:49 -0500

Sandy,
         Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.  The trip was
planned last year but I had to cancell due to family schedules.  As you
pointed out part of the scheduling problem is to leave enough time in the=

schedule so that you can wait out a three day norther rather than risk
getting caught out.
         It's probably a good thing I didn't go last year because I reall=
y
didn't understand what I was getting into.  A person who has made the tri=
p
in an M17 described beating back to Key West against 6 - 7 ft seas for 35=

hrs and having hallucenations!  He did not have self steering but even so=

thats not a pleasure trip. By the way, a park ranger at Dry Tortugas keep=
s
an M17 on the Island!
        This past season I have intentionally gone out in increasingly
stronger winds and have learned to enjoy the larger waves up to a point. =

The most extreme I have been in so far is 29 kts, measure at a nearby NOA=
A
bouy, in Nantucket sound with 5 - 7 ft. waves.  It was great fun and the
M15 did very well but I was free to return to port after a couple of hour=
s.
 =


Thanks
Doug
"Seas the Day"
       T



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Re: M-17  Sculling/sweep oar
Date: 25 Oct 1998 08:51:33 -0500

Chuck,
        I certainly agree that sailing without a motor does teach you a l=
ot
about sailing.  I sailed a Tanzer 16 and a Sunfish well of the coast of N=
ew
England and accross the Chesapeak Bay.  These areas have much a more
reliable sea breeze than lake Mead.  I only had a short canoe paddle as
back up and never had to use it.
        I have always been suprised at how quick sailors with motors are =
to
turn them on.

        I have a pair of 7 1/2 ft aluminum oars and I was thinking of
cutting them up into two 7 ft sections and joining them with a 4 ft woode=
n
dowl snuggly fit into both tubes for strength and stiffness.  This would
also let me break it down and store it inside the boat.  Do you think thi=
s
would work?

Thanks,

Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Water Wts.
Date: 25 Oct 1998 09:04:33 -0500

Lee,

        A possible source of closed cell foam and possibly large blocks o=
f
styrafoam are the Radio Control airplane hobby shops or catalogs. This
material is used in the modern models to get precise airfoils using hot
wire jigs.

        I have used the blow up bladders and they work well in areas wher=
e
abrasion is not a problem.  The rough finished fiberglass under the cocpi=
t
would puncture these pretty fast.

Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 25 Oct 1998 09:09:24 -0500

Jerry,
        I see you received an invite to view an M15 in San Francisco.  If=

you have a chance do it, you have to see to believe.  =

        I do not know of any other sites but would be willing to email so=
me
photo's (gif, jpeg or .bmp) if you like.

Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bryan Harstad" <bharstad@minn.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Water Wts.
Date: 25 Oct 1998 10:02:00 -0000

When placing the flotation, its best to place it low and toward the
outsides, and at both ends of the boat.

If you place it in the center, the boat would have a tendency to roll when
swamped (this is not a problem with a keel boat, but something to keep in
mind if you do something like this for a different type of boat).   The
flotation only works if its under water when the boat is swamped,  if its
placed too high, it wont be submerged, and it wont displace water.

Ideally you want the flotation placed so that if the boat is swamped, the
boat is upright, and the cockpit is no longer taking on water.  This
way you can start bailing with no new water will going into the boat.


-----Original Message-----
<montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>


>Lee,
>
>        A possible source of closed cell foam and possibly large blocks of
>styrafoam are the Radio Control airplane hobby shops or catalogs. This
>material is used in the modern models to get precise airfoils using hot
>wire jigs.
>
>        I have used the blow up bladders and they work well in areas where
>abrasion is not a problem.  The rough finished fiberglass under the cocpit
>would puncture these pretty fast.
>
>Doug
>"Seas the Day"
>




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SAlm111@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 25 Oct 1998 13:00:01 EST

Doug

I'd be interested in your photos.  Would you mind e-mailing a few my way?

Thanks
Steve  M-15  #402
MOONDANCE



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 25 Oct 1998 20:31:09 -0500

Steve,

        I'm not sure what kind of pictures you like ( I like them all) so=
 I
will send you 3 pictures from a September raft up with an M15 "Seas the
Day", an M17 "Bellerin", an M23 "Walkabout" and a 1961 32' Pearson Vangar=
d
with an Celtic name I could never quite catch.  One picture each from the=

port side, bow on and stern on.  I think they are a very good series of
compartive photos.

Anyone else interested?

Doug
"Seas the Day



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 25 Oct 1998 22:31:30 -0500

Doug,

Regarding your rather exciting sailing in Nantucket Sound, I'm interested
in your thoughts on sail selection for those conditions.  I will be sailing
on Lake Erie next season, and it has a reputation for being tricky and
quick to anger.  I like sailing with plenty of wind, but want to be able to
get home when it becomes too much.  

I would think a storm jib is necessary, and wonder if anyone has tried a
storm trysail.  My original main, with only one set of reef points, is
droopy and ugly when reefed.  Maybe a new sail would be okay, even using a
second reef.  What were you using in 29kts?

Bill Riker
M-15 #184
Storm Petrel



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: suthdrug@rosenet.net
Subject: Re: M_Boats: FLOTATION
Date: 25 Oct 1998 19:44:58 GMT

Dear Doug,
    I got caught up in the repartee of flotation, densities of sea water, 
displacement issues, etc. After careful evalution I decided I didn't know 
anything about any of these things. However, when I came to the last part of 
your note "Does wine float?", I thought that this was something I could sink my 
teeth into!
    I ran to the kitchen sink and immediately filled it with water. I then took
a bottle of cabernet savignon out of the wine rack and placed it in the sink 
and it sank to the bottom immediately. I was surprised and concerned by this 
result. I mean you have to think of the real consequences of this. Take , for 
example, that your boat is sinking in a remote position in the Pacific Ocean or 
maybe Mud Lake. You crawl into your liferaft but not before you release the 
case of wine you've thoughtfully stored on deck just in case of such an 
emergency. You sorrowfully watch as your boat sinks away but to add to the 
horror your wine sinks away even faster! You are looking forward to being stuck 
in a "dry" boat for weeks maybe even hours on end. To make matters worse it 
won't even sail! It would be enough to cause even a strong man to snap!
    I determined at this point to experiment with trying to make the wine 
float. I first emptied about 4 ounces from the bottle and resealed it with a    
rubber vacuum cork so the wine wouldn't "go over" from exposure to air. I 
placed the bottle back in the sink and behold... it sank again. While I was 
contemplating this phenomena I drank the 4 ounces held out. It was a nice wine 
and I didn't want it to go to waste. I repeated the experiment by emptying 4 
ounces at a time, recorking with the vacuum seal, and placing it in the sink
always with the same result! Well at least the wine wasn't going to waste.
    I was still concerned about the problem ( but not nearly so as when I began 
for some odd reason...) so I switched to a chardonnay. My reasoning being that
a nice light white might float a little better. I continued to experiment on 
into the evening, or so my wife tells me. I think she was astounded at my 
dedication to finding a solution. Well somewhere during the evening I must have 
collapsed from exhaustion from too much thinking for when I woke up in the 
morning I had a splitting headache. This was undoubtedly from using areas of 
the brain which hadn't been tapped since my college days. It was unfortunate  
to find that I must have been so tired I failed to record the data I'm sure I 
must have obtained. All I could find were some doodlings of islands with palm 
trees, boats, and some remarkable sketches of what appears to be members of the 
fairer sex. 
     Don't give up on me though, I intend to get back to business at my 
earliest opportunity. I want to get this figured out for the greater good of 
the sailing community. Wish me luck!
                          
                                   Ian from Oregon
                                    M17  #343
                                    "Seaweeble"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sailcrzy@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: M-17  Sculling/sweep oar
Date: 25 Oct 1998 22:50:31 EST

Doug,

           Your aluminum oar idea sounds good!  Try it out and see what
happens.  Stowing the oar was always a problem.  Try clamping the oar lock to
different places until you know which spot works best.  

Happy rowing!


Chuck



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Inspection Time
Date: 25 Oct 1998 20:09:07 -0800

As I was puttering with Sojornen this morning, I noticed that the flange
that connects the tiller to the rudder connecting rod had lost one of the
nuts that holds the flange to the tiller, plus the other was loose.  I don't
know if anything catastrophic would have happened if the second nut came
loose, but I suspect that the rudder would have flipped up a bit.

Regardless, it's something to check.  If you're missing any, they were
10x32s on Sojornen.

Steve





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ed hiestand <hiestec@homer.libby.org>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 25 Oct 1998 21:47:27 -0800

Doug Kelch wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
>         I'm not sure what kind of pictures you like ( I like them all) so I
> will send you 3 pictures from a September raft up with an M15 "Seas the
> Day", an M17 "Bellerin", an M23 "Walkabout" and a 1961 32' Pearson Vangard
> with an Celtic name I could never quite catch.  One picture each from the
> port side, bow on and stern on.  I think they are a very good series of
> compartive photos.
> 
> Anyone else interested?
> 
> Doug
> "Seas the Day

yes please , I would love to see and compare the three boats side by
side. Ed Hiestand hiestec@libby.org




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Photos
Date: 26 Oct 1998 05:14:03 -0800

Yeah!
I'd love to see photos of all the boats.
Lee
M15  Puppy  #326




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "L. Ingalls" <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Water Wts.
Date: 26 Oct 1998 05:23:12 -0800

Doug,
Bladders would be ideal, but I think you're right about their being easily
punctured.
I may have found a source for foam.  I'll let you know.
Lee
M15   Puppy  #326




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu
Subject: M_Boats: test message
Date: 26 Oct 1998 08:10:02 CST

     hello, wanted to check my connection, thanks
     
     R.G. 




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu
Subject: M_Boats: hello from R.G.
Date: 26 Oct 1998 08:23:13 CST

     
     Hello, 
               I wanted to introduce myself to the list,  Randy ( R.G. ) 
     Watkins.  I recently purchased a M15 
     ( Lil Bit ) from Dick Ortmeyer here in Texas.  I've decided to rename 
     her Crystal Sea.  I sail in the central Texas area as well as the 
     Galveston Bay area. I'd enjoy hearing from other Montgomery owners in 
     Texas.
     Sailing invitation-I'm getting together with some friends for a day 
     sail this Sun. at Lake Conroe, come on out if you're in the area.
     Randy ( R.G. ) Watkins-College Station, Tx




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dick Allgire <brinefly@soft-link.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 26 Oct 1998 09:19:55 -0700



Sure would like to see them.





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Diehl" <kdiehl@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 26 Oct 1998 08:25:51 -0700

Doug was kind enough to send these photos to me, and I will post
them in the Montgomery gallery on my home page as soon as I can
find the time. Please check there towards the end of the week if
you're interested.


Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City
http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl

----------

Steve,

        I'm not sure what kind of pictures you like ( I like
them all) so I
will send you 3 pictures from a September raft up with an M15
"Seas the
Day", an M17 "Bellerin", an M23 "Walkabout" and a 1961 32'
Pearson Vangard
with an Celtic name I could never quite catch.  One picture each
from the
port side, bow on and stern on.  I think they are a very good
series of
compartive photos.

Anyone else interested?

Doug
"Seas the Day

----------




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Diehl" <kdiehl@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 26 Oct 1998 08:25:51 -0700

Doug was kind enough to send these photos to me, and I will post
them in the Montgomery gallery on my home page as soon as I can
find the time. Please check there towards the end of the week if
you're interested.


Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City
http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl

----------

Steve,

        I'm not sure what kind of pictures you like ( I like
them all) so I
will send you 3 pictures from a September raft up with an M15
"Seas the
Day", an M17 "Bellerin", an M23 "Walkabout" and a 1961 32'
Pearson Vangard
with an Celtic name I could never quite catch.  One picture each
from the
port side, bow on and stern on.  I think they are a very good
series of
compartive photos.

Anyone else interested?

Doug
"Seas the Day

----------




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Morris, Giles" <giles.morris@unisys.com>
Subject: RE: M_Boats: Water Wts.
Date: 26 Oct 1998 10:24:40 -0500

>As an alternative I have heard of using inflatable bladders in lieu of
foam.
>Put 'em in, blow 'em up, and sail away....

The product name "Boat Saver" comes to mind, but I can't find a
reference to it on The Net. I saw it at the Annapolis show. Imagine a
life raft designed to inflate inside the cabin. Not cheap, but looked
well made.

Giles Morris
Arlington VA
M-15 #264 "Umiaq"




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Diehl" <kdiehl@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Water Wts.
Date: 26 Oct 1998 08:57:21 -0700

I think they're called Yacht Saver. They make a family of
products. Probably most appropriate for the M17 is a duffel bag
that contained a high strength (not easily puncturable -think
Zodiac) air bladder and a bottle of compressed air. Pull the
string and your boat is unsinkable. Other types have permanently
installed deflated bladders and water activated switches. Price,
as I recall, started in the $1K range. I think I've got a
brochure somewhere that I can dig for if anyone wants an
address.

Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City
http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl

----------
> From: Morris, Giles <giles.morris@unisys.com>
> To: 'montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com'
> Subject: RE: M_Boats: Water Wts.
> Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 8:24 AM
> 
> >As an alternative I have heard of using inflatable bladders
in lieu of
> foam.
> >Put 'em in, blow 'em up, and sail away....
> 
> The product name "Boat Saver" comes to mind, but I can't find
a
> reference to it on The Net. I saw it at the Annapolis show.
Imagine a
> life raft designed to inflate inside the cabin. Not cheap, but
looked
> well made.
> 
> Giles Morris
> Arlington VA
> M-15 #264 "Umiaq"
> 
> 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Motomike@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: FLOTATION
Date: 26 Oct 1998 11:48:41 EST

Dear Ian,
Your hilarious report about your efforts to discover whether or not wine
floats sent me overboard with laughter. I feel compelled to investigate for
myself. 
Thanks, Mike



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rc2222@pacbell.net
Subject: M_Boats: Montgomery List
Date: 26 Oct 1998 10:04:46 -0800

Keith:

  How many are on the list?  Does anyone know
why Captain Kidd hasn't been posting.  

Rich  "Really"
       M-15




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Diehl" <kdiehl@xmission.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Photos of Raft-up
Date: 26 Oct 1998 12:49:07 -0700

Well, my corporate email server is down so I spent my "do email"
time updating my home page. (don't tell my boss <smile> )

The photos of the M23, M17, and M15 raft-up are there now, as
well as a nice picture of an M15 under sail. Thanks to Doug
Kelch for the photos.

Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City
http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Diehl" <kdiehl@xmission.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Photos of Raft-up
Date: 26 Oct 1998 12:49:07 -0700

Well, my corporate email server is down so I spent my "do email"
time updating my home page. (don't tell my boss <smile> )

The photos of the M23, M17, and M15 raft-up are there now, as
well as a nice picture of an M15 under sail. Thanks to Doug
Kelch for the photos.

Keith Diehl -- Salt Lake City
http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Floatation
Date: 26 Oct 1998 14:34:37 +0000

Hi Bryan

A cubic foot of fresh water weighs 62.4 lbs, but I have no idea what a
cubic yard weighs- possibly more.

Jerry


Bryan Harstad wrote:
> 
> I was told that a cubic yard is suppose to displace 2000 pounds.
> I  never confirmed that.   All you have to do is find out how much a
> cubic yard of water weighs.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: L. Ingalls <ingalls@gemini.adnc.com>
> To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
> <montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>
> Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 2:23 PM
> Subject: M_Boats: Floatation
> 
> >Doug,
> >Thanks for responding.
> >My note was poorly worded; I meant that the only closed cell foam available
> >here is the foam-in-place kind, and I don't want to put in anything
> >permanent.   I'll check out the material you suggested.   Seems small
> >thought, in cubic feet, that is.   This is not really a big deal in San
> >Diego.   Winds and wave conditions are rarely frightening.   I'm used to
> >sailing in San Francisco bay, and that can get really hairy.   But my mate
> >would feel better with a bit of positive buoyancy.
> >I may have Puppy ready to go into the water late next week.   Really
> >looking forward to that.
> >Thanks again.
> >Lee
> >M15  Puppy  #326
> >
> >
> >
> >



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 26 Oct 1998 14:43:35 +0000

Doug- I don't know what you are talking about, but I've been gone for 
1 1/2 weeks and haven't gone thru all my messages yet and am taking them
in order.

Jerry



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: FLOTATION
Date: 26 Oct 1998 14:50:48 +0000

Ian

I tried something similar except that I used whisky, rum, tequilla, etc,
and a bathtub.  

I know what you mean about college days; all I can remember about
college are the Sunday morning "voids".

Jerry



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dick Allgire <brinefly@soft-link.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Monday
Date: 26 Oct 1998 17:19:07 -0700

I finished the season at GSL Saturday helping Don Gorder take out his C22
and managed to fall in the lake .... and I tell you, going  in with a
Michigan sweat shirt, full length trousers including billfold, and running
shoes(brand new) is not the best way the celebrate the end of a sailing
season....which I guess you missed because I've not seen your flat top
there....did note the white one at the south end and a dyllow one facing it.
  About the dunking....Don and I took a brief turn around the marina before
going to the ramp for the pull-out.  As we approached the dock at the ramp
I stood on the  deck forward to hop off and take a line......I don't know
how I did it but I stepped right into the water and it isn't easy getting
out.....Don gave me a hand but could only get my head and shoulds on the
dock and then grabbed my belt  and hauled my the rest of the way out....the
alternative would have been to paddle over to the ramp and walk out.  The
water wasn't cold but I banged my knee on something going in and sliced my
hand open trying to stop my fall by holding the shroud....not too bad, tho,
although I am limping from the banged up knee.  Doc Jackson, who has my
boat ,happened to have an extra pair of sweat pants and a pair shorts and a
dry shirt which I changed into and then went for a brief, windless sail in
the Mary L....darned if was going to let a dunking keep from a sail with
the season so near the end.
   So ends the '98 season, for me .....sorry you weren't there for the fun (?)






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KQ4AL <hapence@erols.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Floatation
Date: 26 Oct 1998 18:45:19 -0500

<html>
<font size=3D3>810261845<br>
<br>
27 x whatever constant for water (fresh-salt-Salt Lake-Sea of G)
Density/weight.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 14:34 98/10/26 +0000, you wrote:<br>
&gt;Hi Bryan<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;A cubic foot of fresh water weighs 62.4 lbs, but I have no idea what
a<br>
&gt;cubic yard weighs- possibly more.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Jerry<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Bryan Harstad wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; I was told that a cubic yard is suppose to displace 2000
pounds.<br>
&gt;&gt; I=A0 never confirmed that.=A0=A0 All you have to do is find out how
much a<br>
&gt;&gt; cubic yard of water weighs.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Bryan<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt; From: L. Ingalls &lt;ingalls@gemini.adnc.com&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com<br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 2:23 PM<br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: M_Boats: Floatation<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;Doug,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;Thanks for responding.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;My note was poorly worded; I meant that the only closed cell
foam available<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;here is the foam-in-place kind, and I don't want to put in
anything<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;permanent.=A0=A0 I'll check out the material you suggested.=A0=
=A0
Seems small<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;thought, in cubic feet, that is.=A0=A0 This is not really a big
deal in San<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;Diego.=A0=A0 Winds and wave conditions are rarely frightening.=
=A0=A0
I'm used to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;sailing in San Francisco bay, and that can get really
hairy.=A0=A0 But my mate<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;would feel better with a bit of positive buoyancy.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;I may have Puppy ready to go into the water late next
week.=A0=A0 Really<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;looking forward to that.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;Thanks again.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;Lee<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;M15=A0 Puppy=A0 #326<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; </font>
<BR>
<div>72 y Paz&nbsp; Doris and Grover&nbsp; HA`PENNY WWP-19 #965 </div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
KQ4AL/KE4CYE&nbsp; Occoquan, VA&nbsp;&nbsp; 38 41' 18&quot; N&nbsp;
77&nbsp; 17' 30&quot;W&nbsp; </div>
</html>



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 26 Oct 1998 19:48:33 -0500

Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
>Doug,

Regarding your rather exciting sailing in Nantucket Sound, I'm interested=

in your thoughts on sail selection for those conditions.  I will be saili=
ng
on Lake Erie next season, and it has a reputation for being tricky and
quick to anger.  I like sailing with plenty of wind, but want to be able =
to
get home when it becomes too much.  =


I would think a storm jib is necessary, and wonder if anyone has tried a
storm trysail.  My original main, with only one set of reef points, is
droopy and ugly when reefed.  Maybe a new sail would be okay, even using =
a
second reef.  What were you using in 29kts?

Bill Riker<

Bill,
        I was using a new (this season)storm jib and a double reefed main=
=2E =

I had the second reef points put in my 12 yr old main last fall.  When th=
e
work on the jib and main was performed I asked for the storm jib and the
second reef to be put in I asked the sailmaker to make the storm jib a
little on the large size and to not make the second reef so deep that the=

little boat had no power climb the larger seas.  The storm jib is very fl=
at
and the jiffy reefing with both reef points flatens the main quite well. =
 =

        I do like the way these sails balance the helm in the high winds.=
 =

The boat was a little over powered cresting the waves when a gust was
coming through at about 35 kts but easily handled.

Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gary M. Hyde" <gmhyde@wsu.edu>
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 26 Oct 1998 16:33:08 -0800

Doug:
Yes, I'd be interested in you pictures too!
--Gary

>Steve,
>
>        I'm not sure what kind of pictures you like ( I like them all) so I
>will send you 3 pictures from a September raft up with an M15 "Seas the
>Day", an M17 "Bellerin", an M23 "Walkabout" and a 1961 32' Pearson Vangard
>with an Celtic name I could never quite catch.  One picture each from the
>port side, bow on and stern on.  I think they are a very good series of
>compartive photos.
>
>Anyone else interested?
>
>Doug
>"Seas the Day






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mont15@aol.com
Subject: M_Boats: Re:  Re: M_floatation
Date: 26 Oct 1998 20:32:25 EST

According to Larry Brown in his book "Frugal Yachting" ' Figure roughly one
cubic yard of floatation will  support a thousand pounds of boat and
equipment.

If you live in the S.F. Bay area, I can get you the name of a good source.

Bert



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Floatation
Date: 25 Oct 1998 17:37:23 -0500

Lee,

Go to Home Depot and buy some 4 x 8 foot sheets of styrofoam.  This you
can cut with a carpenters saw into the sizes needed to fit in the M-15. 
Then glue the individual planks together to reach the desired thickness,
width, and length.
Yes, styrofoam is a bit messy - it crumbles into itty bitty balls that
fly around the place and attach themselves everywhere, but, it's cheap,
and does the job.

Don't use the foam-in-place material:  you can never remove it short of
blasting, or becoming a foam miner - diging it out inch by inch.

Connie
M-15 LEPPO

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: FLOTATION
Date: 26 Oct 1998 20:53:23 -0500

Hi Ian,

Your experiment with the cabernet sauvignon and the chardonnay were the
right direction,only you made a fundamental error in your thinking.
Everyone who's wife has made him help vacuum the carpets knows that a
vacuum is heavier - a lot heavier - than air.  By pulling a vacuum in the
bottle and recorking it, you kept adding weight.  Ian, forget the heavy
vacuum and let the light air into the bottle, and you'll find that your
half empy bottles of Cabernet will float just fine.

But in case of impending shipwreck, remember to put a fishing line on the
neck of each bottle and fasten them to your life vest (and don't forget
the corkscrew).  Then your boat can sink, and you will be afloat with
good bottles, and the means for accessing their contents.   And from an
engineering standpoint, each bottle you drain and recork adds positive
bouyancy to you so that you stick further out of the water and therefore
can be more readily located by the rescue teams.

Salut
Connie
M-15  #400 LEPPO
Glastonbury, CT

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sandyal55@aol.com
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: Re:  Re: M_floatation
Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:47:18 EST

To those interested; water weighs 8.34lb/gal  X  7.48 gal/cu.ft.  X
27cu.ft/cu.yd  =  1684.3464 lbs.  I think somebody reported that last week.
Sandy  PS; I've run water plants for 30 years.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saltm17@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 26 Oct 1998 23:50:33 EST

Doug,

Despite the problems I had this year in my Dry Sail to the Dry Tortugas, I'm
planning to try again next year.  Probably in May again since the water is
warmer and the chance of winter storms is much reduced.  As the weather gets
colder, my planning will get warmer.  Hope you can make the trip.

John
M17 #372



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saltm17@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 27 Oct 1998 00:03:29 EST

Bill,

I had a second set of reef points put on the main, and I have a storm jib
which is also reefable.  I sat at the dock one day when the wind was a true 30
Knots, debating whether I really wanted to go out in that mess.  I decided it
was the best chance I would ever get, since I was at the dock and put in both
reefs in the main under stable conditions.  I didn't reef the storm sail.

I sailed out from the protection in the harbor, and started screaming along.
It was a wild ride, but I found out three things for sure about sailing in
winds like that. 1) a boom-vang is almost a neccessity when going down wind 2)
the sailboat can go to weather, even hard on the wind under those conditions,
and 3) I hope I don't have to go hard on the wind in those conditions.
Really, the boat did amazingly well, but the  margin for error was just about
nil.  It would have been much better if there was another, knowledgeable,
person on board, if  for nothing more than weight on the high side.

John
M-17 #372



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dan Diehlman" <dand@csufresno.edu>
Subject: M_Boats: Flotation
Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:34:11 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Connie et All,
    I'm afraid the experiments with wine bottles will only lead you up a =
blind alley.
On my boat, I carry no life preservers. Each crew member is assigned two =
of the 5 liter wine box containers. If in danger (for which the =
parameters vary wildly), you extract the aluminum container from the =
box, place the spigot in your mouth and drain the contents....then =
without removing the spigot from your mouth, you quickly inflate the =
aluminum container orally. Having done this successfully with one, you =
place it under one armpit and then proceed to do likewise for the other. =

    On occasion, especially when there is a lack of wind, we practice =
"man overboard"drill. We keep doing it until we "get it right".=20

            Dan M15 Etude

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE0128.5EE2E400
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Connie et All,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm afraid the =
experiments=20
with wine bottles will only lead you up a blind alley.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>On my boat, I carry no life =
preservers. Each=20
crew member is assigned two of the 5 liter wine box containers. If in =
danger=20
(for which the parameters vary wildly), you extract the aluminum =
container from=20
the box, place the spigot in your mouth and drain the contents....then =
without=20
removing the spigot from your mouth, you quickly inflate the aluminum =
container=20
orally. Having done this successfully with one, you place it under one =
armpit=20
and then proceed to do likewise for the other. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On occasion, =
especially when=20
there is a lack of wind, we practice &quot;man overboard&quot;drill. We =
keep=20
doing it until we &quot;get it right&quot;. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; Dan=20
M15 Etude</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE0128.5EE2E400--




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Larry Barkhuff <LBarkhuff@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 27 Oct 1998 11:34:26 -0500

Doug, I was just catching up on my e mail and saw your post about the raf=
t
up pix.  Do you happen to know who owns the M23 named " Walkabout"?  I do=

not recall that name boat from my list....I am also trying to get the
entire list of 23 owners as I have compiled it, posted for Randy....Larry=

Barkhuff



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-15, M-17
Date: 27 Oct 1998 14:04:41 EST

Lzrry

I would like a copy of that list too.........I saw another 23 at the sailboat
shop the other day..I'll try and find out who the owner of that one
is...........al I know for sure is he is from Tucson..............

Lenny
M-23 # 003
Sea Horse



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu
Subject: M_Boats: spares
Date: 27 Oct 1998 13:14:02 CST

     hello
     As a new M15 owner I am trying to put together a M15 specific spare 
     part complement.   Is there a source for obtain spares as needed.
     
     thanks
     
     R.G. Watkins




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares
Date: 27 Oct 1998 14:49:19 EST

Randy

A good source for spare parts is West Marine..
Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu
Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: spares
Date: 27 Oct 1998 14:13:49 CST

     Lenny thanks I'll check them out for some of the general spares.  One 
     item I read about in some of the earlier postings were centerboard 
     problems.  I don't have this problem 
     ( and hope I don't in the future) but how would you for instance 
     obtain a replacement c/b for a M15?  would you have to have one made 
     or is there a source for these critical type parts.
     
     thanks,
     
     R.G. 


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Author:  montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet


Randy
     
A good source for spare parts is West Marine.. 
Lenny
     




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Morris, Giles" <giles.morris@unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: M_Boats: spares
Date: 27 Oct 1998 15:19:50 -0500

>but how would you for instance 
>obtain a replacement c/b for a M15?

Funny that you should mention that...

I had to get a replacement c/b after mine broke. If you haven't already
done so, I suggest that you look at the information about M-15 c/bs and
c/b pennants, specifically about how the board must NOT be lowered too
far.

I was lucky enough to need a new board just as Bob Eeg was beginning
M-17 production, and the two boards are identical.

FWIW: I did briefly consider just getting a steel plate the right shape
and width, but was worried about corrosion (how do boats with metal drop
keels avoid it?) and excess weight (extra ballast would be nice, but a
metal board would be a real joy to raise and lower by hand.

Giles Morris
Arlington VA
M-15 #264 "Umiaq"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu
Subject: Re[4]: M_Boats: spares
Date: 27 Oct 1998 14:33:53 CST

     Giles thanks for the info, I'll be careful lowering & raising,  did I 
     understand the M17 ( new models ) & M15 use the same c/b or do you 
     have two boats.  Mine is a 1981 model so I don't know exactly what the 
     construction is.
     thanks
     
     R.G. 
      


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Author:  montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet


>but how would you for instance 
>obtain a replacement c/b for a M15?
     
Funny that you should mention that...
     
I had to get a replacement c/b after mine broke. If you haven't already 
done so, I suggest that you look at the information about M-15 c/bs and 
c/b pennants, specifically about how the board must NOT be lowered too 
far.
     
I was lucky enough to need a new board just as Bob Eeg was beginning 
M-17 production, and the two boards are identical.
     
FWIW: I did briefly consider just getting a steel plate the right shape 
and width, but was worried about corrosion (how do boats with metal drop 
keels avoid it?) and excess weight (extra ballast would be nice, but a 
metal board would be a real joy to raise and lower by hand.
     
Giles Morris
Arlington VA
M-15 #264 "Umiaq"
     




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 27 Oct 1998 21:14:44 -0500

John,

Thanks for the heavy weather info and advice.   Sounds like over 30 kts I
would need another mainsail option - smaller that a double reefed main.  
And it would probably add to the comfort factor with wind less than 30.  

I haven't heard of reef points on a storm jib.  Interesting. . .

Thanks,
Bill Riker
M15 #184
Storm Petrel



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: M_Boats: Overtime?
Date: 27 Oct 1998 19:02:48 -0800

Hey Gang,

I hope I haven't asked this before (geezerdom is here), but does anyone know
who owns the M23 named Overtime.  I saw it at Waldo Lake this year, and
assumed that it was hull #1, but since have been in contact with Gary and
Beth Summer, and learned differently.

Regardless, if you know the owner, or if you know of a 23 in the Pacific
Northwest, please let me know.

Regards,

Steve





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Doug Kelch <Doug_Kelch@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where is everybody?
Date: 28 Oct 1998 17:09:53 -0500

Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
>John,

Thanks for the heavy weather info and advice.   Sounds like over 30 kts I=

would need another mainsail option - smaller that a double reefed main.  =

And it would probably add to the comfort factor with wind less than 30.  =


I haven't heard of reef points on a storm jib.  Interesting. . .

Thanks,
Bill Riker
M15 #184
Storm Petrel<

Bill,

        My M15 does well up to about 35 kts with a storm jib and double
reefed main.  You always have to pay attention at wind speeds and waves
this strong. I would drop the storm jib between 35 and 40 kts and above
that I would be looking to heave to (which works well on an M15) or look
for something smaller.


Doug
"Seas the Day"



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: spares
Date: 28 Oct 1998 18:24:33 EST

Randy
It's times like that when you find out who your friends really
are...........hopefully someone with another M-15..............seriously
though, I have heard of " spares " being found.............JM usually has a
line on parts and pieces.........although it may not hurt to drop the board
one of these days and make a template...

Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Fleming" <John_Fleming-P26166@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 28 Oct 1998 17:29:41 -0700

Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu wrote:

>      Lenny thanks I'll check them out for some of the general spares.  One
>      item I read about in some of the earlier postings were centerboard
>      problems.  I don't have this problem
>      ( and hope I don't in the future) but how would you for instance
>      obtain a replacement c/b for a M15?  would you have to have one made
>      or is there a source for these critical type parts.

I haven't gotten through all the archives (perhaps some poor soul could distill
them into a FAQ), but I did have several experiences with my M-17 centerboard.

First, the pivot pin for the centerboard mounted through the keel trunk kept
walking out.  Just the little back and forth movement of the board while sailing
was enough to start it walking out.  I could not have done a multi-day sail without
risking the centerboard completely falling out of trunk, or something worse.  What
a disaster that would have been!  The shop filled the holes on both sides, glassed
them over, and gelcoated.  I don't know if that is the preferred response or not
(it wasn't necessarily mine), but it's done.  Perhaps a better response would have
been to have some sort of C-ring insert into a slot at both ends of the pin.  With
their response, any time the centerboard hoist rigging needs replacing or
repairing, we are going to have to find and break into the filled/glassed over
holes and push the pin out to drop the board entirely out of the trunk.

Second.  Before they fixed the first problem, I had the boat hoisted, and the
centerboard removed from the keel trunk.  I had them inspect the centerboard hoist
rigging.  The rigging seemed fine, but they noticed that the little metal tab at
the back of the centerboard had broken off.  This tab, part of the original
casting, if it's there, it supposed to rest against a through-pin at the rear and
bottom of the centerboard keel trunk, and keep the centerboard from swinging too
far forward and damaging the front of the trunk.

Apparently, or so the shop said,  the tab breaking off is is a common failure, as
well as when it does, subsequent damage to the trunk (which mine also had had).  To
mitigate this, there is a big knot in the centerboard haul up/down line (I forget
the exact name!) just inside the companionway, inside the cabin, and at the front
top of the centerboard trunk.  When the centerboard is fully deployed, the knot
rests on the entrance hole to the trunk, and prevents any more forward movement of
the centerboard.

All you other M-17'ers:  is this problem common?  Have you had similar
experiences?  How have you solved the centerboard pivot pin walkout problem?

--
Regards,
--
John Fleming
Systems Engineering
Advanced Systems Division





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: M_Boats: spares
Date: 28 Oct 1998 18:23:23 CST

Lenny thanks for the info.

R.G.


_______________________ Reply Separator _______________________

Author:  montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet

Randy
It's times like that when you find out who your friends really
are...........hopefully someone with another M-15..............seriously
though, I have heard of " spares " being found.............JM usually has a
line on parts and pieces.........although it may not hurt to drop the board
one of these days and make a template...

Lenny





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck)
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Flotation
Date: 27 Oct 1998 20:56:39 -0500

Dan,
Your flotation method with the wine boxes is another example of the
truely inspired thinking that sailors do to solve problems.  It is an
elegant solution to the problem.

I will not have anything on board our boat,  where I can't find two uses
for the item, (three is even better, but I have rarely been able to
achieve that goal) and your wine box meets that criteria:  it provides
drink and sustenance while sailing; and at the same time supplying the
means for remaining afloat if the vessel should encounter  some form of
negative bouyancy disaster, where the Captain desires to keep his head
above water.
Et voila: drink the wine: inflate the bladder; and happily await your
rescue.
But Dan, in this situation one should also have a small tray with hors
d'oeuvres attached to one's life jacket, so that you have some nibblies
to eat while awaiting rescue.  Having drunk the wine, you now need a bit
of nurishment.
I'll supply the idea:  you work out the details.

Connie

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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Natalie Bohnet <nbohnet@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: M_Boats: Rust in keel sump?
Date: 28 Oct 1998 19:38:18 -0700

Hi Everyone,
JUst finished reading the heavy weather accounts; are there any additional
stories out there, particularly use of storm and/or trysails on M17's?
Also, we have noticed what appears to be rust accumulating in the keel sump.
We have a 1983 model with a metal centerboard, but are not quite sure what
is rusting.  Also, we seem to accumulate a small amount of water in the sump
regularly.  Not sure origin of water.  As far as we can tell there are no
leaks in the hull or we have not taken water into the cockpit.  We have
observed some water entering the boat through the centerboard pendant hole,
although not a lot.  Water always is always contained in the sump.  Not a
rising leak.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Nat & Mike
"Junior"
M17 #365




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John&Kris <fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rust in keel sump?
Date: 28 Oct 1998 20:51:05 +0000

Natalie Bohnet wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> JUst finished reading the heavy weather accounts; are there any additional
> stories out there, particularly use of storm and/or trysails on M17's?
> Also, we have noticed what appears to be rust accumulating in the keel sump.
> We have a 1983 model with a metal centerboard, but are not quite sure what
> is rusting.  Also, we seem to accumulate a small amount of water in the sump
> regularly.  Not sure origin of water.  As far as we can tell there are no
> leaks in the hull or we have not taken water into the cockpit.  We have
> observed some water entering the boat through the centerboard pendant hole,
> although not a lot.  Water always is always contained in the sump.  Not a
> rising leak.
> Any ideas?

Have you checked the two cockpit drains? Either the hoses, or the glassed-in
hose attach pipes?  If the hose clamps are too tight, it could have cracked the
fiberglass pipe.  Or the hoses are leaking.  Or you don't have hose clamps.  Or
there are cracks in the locker exit, or the hull exit.  When my '82 M-17 is in
the water and sailing, the aft locker is wet with sloshing water, which tells
me that the cockpit drain hoses and hull exit holes are continuously below the
waterline.  It could come from there.

If there is a lot of rust, it has to be coming from the centerboard, through a
crack in the trunk.  You'll have to get in there with a flashlight and
carefully inspect the trunk next to the bilge sump.  Alternatively, hoist the
boat, drop the centerboard completely out, and inspect the entire interior of
the trunk, trying to shine bright lights through the hull, one person inside,
one outside.

Or how about the transom through-hulls for the motor mount?  When you are
motoring, all that water surging about the mount could leak in.

Somewhere along the way, I went out and got two of those big corks for the
cockpit drains, that they sell at the boat stores.  I have them stored below
the quarterberths, but they really need to be tied directly to the drain hoses,
so that if there ever were to be a problem, the hull exits or the hoses could
be plugged.

It's good that you check for leaks.  I never really do, I keep forgetting to
when I have the boat in the water.  And I've never looked directly into the
sump.  The bilge pump strainer is down there, below the anchor, and once in a
while I lift the strainer out to look at it..  I guess I'm afraid that if I
squirmed into that space below the cockpit to look directly into the sump, I
might never be able to squirm out.  And I'm not a big guy.

And thanks for helping me out on the nautical name for the centerboard
up/downhaul rigging, the "pendant".  When I first learned to sail on our M-17,
it was always so confusing:  "Uh, honey, could you pull on that um, string,
there?  Which one?  Umm, that one.  NO!  NOT that one!  The other one!".  It's
like learning a foreign language.  First you learn it yourself, and then you
have to teach the rest of the family.  And no yelling or it's going to be an
icy day of sailing regardless of the outdoor temperature.

Regards,
--
John Fleming
M-17: "Star Cross'd"
fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John&Kris <fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Heavy weather sails
Date: 28 Oct 1998 21:00:51 +0000

Doug Kelch wrote:

> Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
> >John,
>
> Thanks for the heavy weather info and advice.   Sounds like over 30 kts I
> would need another mainsail option - smaller that a double reefed main.
> And it would probably add to the comfort factor with wind less than 30.
>
> I haven't heard of reef points on a storm jib.  Interesting. . .
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Riker
> M15 #184
> Storm Petrel<
>
> Bill,
>
>         My M15 does well up to about 35 kts with a storm jib and double
> reefed main.  You always have to pay attention at wind speeds and waves
> this strong. I would drop the storm jib between 35 and 40 kts and above
> that I would be looking to heave to (which works well on an M15) or look
> for something smaller.

One day I priced out a storm trysail to replace the main.  Here in Arizona,
it's either light airs, or a front is moving through and it's very squally
and gusty.  I thought that would be cool, to be out on the lake, and see if
I could take 30 gusty knots.

Alternately, I dream of Mexico and the sea of Cortez, and I'd hate to be
caught in a chubasco.

Anyway, a new trysail was $600, so I decided I'd wait until I really do need
it.

Regards,
--
John Fleming
M-17:  "Star Cross'd"
fleming-maine@worldnet.att.net





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 09:44:25 EST

have you had any experience in freeing a stuck centerboard...cannot find any
obstruction around sides of centerboard...but still it will not drop...any
advice would be appreciated



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Fisher <bfisher@firstam.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 08:13:59 -0700

I assume it is stuck in the up position. I have had the same problem. The cause
on my boat is the roller that the keel rest on when the board is up and the boat
on the trailer. It seems that most of the weight is resting on this roller. The
bunks support the boat but do not keep sufficient weight off the centerboard in
the raised position. Trailering the boat with the stress on the board jams it
too far up in the trunk and it will not fall. My solution (albiet not the best)
is to carry an 18" piece of rebar and a rubber mallet. When you are ready to
drop the centerboard position the rebar against the aft portion of the
centerboard in the access hole just below the winch and give it a few hard blows
and it will fall. CAUTION! Be sure that your penant has enough slack to let the
board come lose but you don't want it to fall on the tang and snap it off. A
better solution would be to fabricate rollers on each side of the hull to get
the weight off the centerboard. This may not be your problem, but it could be.
Jerry M. will have a better answer.
Bob Fisher

Grove777@aol.com wrote:

> have you had any experience in freeing a stuck centerboard...cannot find any
> obstruction around sides of centerboard...but still it will not drop...any
> advice would be appreciated






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saltm17@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 16:44:26 EST

I had the same problem for a number of years.  The weight of the board on the
roller was cutting into the roller.   I changed the pennant from rope to
cable, and marked where the cable at the spot where the tang on the
centerboard met the pin.  Since then I haven't had a problem with it sticking.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Fisher <bfisher@firstam.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 15:36:46 -0700

I may be a little dense but how could this reduce the weight of the boat resting
on the roller and prevent the center board from being jammed up into the trunk?
Bob Fisher

Saltm17@aol.com wrote:

> I had the same problem for a number of years.  The weight of the board on the
> roller was cutting into the roller.   I changed the pennant from rope to
> cable, and marked where the cable at the spot where the tang on the
> centerboard met the pin.  Since then I haven't had a problem with it sticking.






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bryan Harstad" <bharstad@minn.net>
Subject: M_Boats: Diagram of centerboard/trunk mechanism
Date: 29 Oct 1998 17:59:49 -0000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Does someone have a diagram of the centerboard/trunk mechanism?

I am specifically looking to find out how the rope is routed, and where =
it is connected.   The rope to my centerboard is old and worn,  I might =
have to replace it next spring.

How do you replace the rope?   Has anyone replaced the rope while the =
boat is in the water?  I have a early 74 (if i remember right) version =
of an M17,  what else should I check for while down there?

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE0365.EBDD9460
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Does someone have a diagram of the=20
centerboard/trunk mechanism?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am specifically looking to find =
out how the=20
rope is routed, and where it is connected.&nbsp;&nbsp; The rope to my=20
centerboard is old and worn,&nbsp; I might have to replace it next=20
spring.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>How do you replace the =
rope?&nbsp;&nbsp; Has=20
anyone replaced the rope while the boat is in the water?&nbsp; I have a =
early 74=20
(if i remember right) version of an M17,&nbsp; what else should I check =
for=20
while down there?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: Sandyal55@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 19:16:09 EST

I don't own a Montgomery but if the centerboard is sticking out below the
fixed keel, when it is retracted, it should not have weight on it. A support
should be about an inch under it so that the pennant is lowered after putting
the boat on the trailer. The centerboard would then be resting on it's own
support separate from the boat's weight. Also, the pennant isn't taking a
pounding when going down the highway cause it won't have any weight on it.
I've trailered this way for 11 years without trouble.   Sandy



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saltm17@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 20:15:07 EST

I'm not sure it did, but it did stop the board from hanging up in the trunk.
I think the rope was being jamed in ther trunk, but the wire, taking up less
space, allowed the board to move higher up into the trunk.  In any case, I no
longer had a problem with the roller being cut by the board.

John
M17 #372



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KGRwheeler@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Diagram of centerboard/trunk mechanism
Date: 29 Oct 1998 20:59:57 EST

Byran;
I replaced my pennant earlier this year.  It is a straight shot thru the hull
to the cabin.  I removed the pin that catches the tang on the board from the
keel, had the boat raised by hoist until I could see the connection point then
I tied on the new pennant, had the boat lowered onto the trailer and replaced
the pin.  My pennant was tied to a D shackle that was pinned to the board.  I
wished I had had a new shackle to install but the old one is working.  The
only problem I have is I had to raise it to the maximum to clear the trailer
roller, this puts the knot in the pennant up against the hull.  I think thats
why my pennant broke.  Incidentally we had no problem gettting the boat back
on the trailer with the board down.  I think I probably could have launched
that way too.
Ken



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons)
Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 18:44:08 -0800

Is this a 15?  If so, I have careened the boat on a mudflat, and pulled the
board down with a pair of needle nose pliers, plus in nice clean water I've
played frog man.  Probably the best thing would be to have a small dowel do
pass through the hole in the bridge deck, and push it down.

Steve

>have you had any experience in freeing a stuck centerboard...cannot find any
>obstruction around sides of centerboard...but still it will not drop...any
>advice would be appreciated
>
>





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Becker <beckerr@jps.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 29 Oct 1998 19:21:44 +0000

I assume you have a M15.

When I loaded my M15 on the trailer with the centerboard inadvertently down,
the board is pushed up by the trailer frame and the pendant knot drops
between the centerboard and keel and wedges the board in the up position. 
To free it, jack up the bow of the boat on the trailer using a hydraylic
jack under the foreward part of the keel, with boards between the jack and
boat.  When the boat is 3-4" off the trailer, the board should drop free. 
If not, reach in and tug the pendant or pry down on the board from outside
the boat until it drops free, then secure the pendant so the board is in the
full raised position.  Next time, make sure the centerboard is up when you
load it on the trailer.

The other thing to remember is to have the centerboard secured in the raised
position when you launch.  If the board is free, it will drop off the first
roller and catch on the aft roller (trailrite trailer) and the boat will not
float free.  You end up pushing and pulling and cussing and giving a great
show for the folks on the dock, until you pull it back on the trailer, climb
in and sucure the board in up position, and launch again.

Good luck,
Bob
M15 #208
----------
> From: Grove777@aol.com 
> To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com 
> Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues 
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:44:25 EST 
> 
>have you had any experience in freeing a stuck centerboard...cannot find
any
>obstruction around sides of centerboard...but still it will not drop...any
>advice would be appreciated
>
>





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jerry montgomery <jmbn@innercite.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Re: Boat in socal
Date: 29 Oct 1998 20:13:45 +0000

Hi Tom

The original interior on the 17 was the 3-berth, which had a
quarterberth on starboard, and a galley across from it on port.  The
galley seemed to be a good idea at the time (what the market wanted),
but most everyone cooks in the cockpit in a boat this size and probably
few used it actually for a galley.  The value of the galley was the
storage under, and also the sink was a great place to keep halyard tails
and also to pee in in a lite-air race altho that did require some
contortions and it was easy to slip and make a real mess.  But the best
thing about the three-berth was the cockpit storage aft of the galley.
Open the portside cockpit hatch and there was a large compartment that
extended to the bottom of the hull, almost to the centerline.  A great
place for bulky things like the outboard, and the primary anchor and
lots of rode (I always anchored the 17 from the cockpit, then walked
forward to cleat it off).

The four-berth has, on port, a mirror-image quarterberth, which
naturally extends aft so that there is no room for cockpit storage.  The
good side was that there is sitting headroom below, on both side, which
the three-berth does not have. 

In answer to your implied question, you could convert a four berth to a
three berth by cutting out the port cockpit storage box, making a access
hole for the storage locker.  In production, we used a router with a
diamond bit, which cuts fiberglass like a hot knife thru butter, but you
could make do by using a mandrel with a 3" diameter cutting wheel. 
Cutting out the aft part of the quarterberth and bonding in the divider
that is needed to compartmentalize the locker would be the hard part;
there is nothing nastier to work with than old fiberglass.  But it could
be done.

The most recent (3 1/2 berth?) interior is probably the best; instead of
the galley there is a short berth (settee) on port, and behind it the
cockpit locker, which to me is the important part.  It didn't have the
storage of the original (under the galley cabinet), and didn't have a
sink to pee in, but it did have good sitting headroom on both sides, and
the short berth was long enough to sleep a half-grown kid, if you were
crazy enough to want one of them along.  Better, a good dog, which could
sleep on the sole anyway and doesn't require obnoxious music.  If I were
ambitious enough to try to convert a 4-berth, I would change it to the 3
1/2.  If I remember right, we changed to this interior exclusively in
the late 80's. The first one of this type was a special order, and the
idea of the customer (not me) but as soon as we started on the boat and
I realized what a good idea it was, I tried to steal the idea and claim
it as my own, but the guy wouldn't let me get away with it. Some people
are just naturally uptight.

I think I'll put this on the M list because there might be a few who
will find it useful, and some might want to comment. 

Hope you and Jane can join us on the Boundary Waters.

Jerry




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saltm17@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 09:29:22 EST

I just read my E-mail to the group.  I think I must be drinking  - testing
that survival floation technique.  



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Keith Diehl" <kdiehl@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 09:00:57 -0700

My outboard vibrates enough that a drive around the harbor with
a small amount of slack in the pennant will free the board when
it gets stuck.

----------
> From: Steve Parsons <sparsons@canby.com>
> To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 7:44 PM
> 
> Is this a 15?  If so, I have careened the boat on a mudflat,
and pulled the
> board down with a pair of needle nose pliers, plus in nice
clean water I've
> played frog man.  Probably the best thing would be to have a
small dowel do
> pass through the hole in the bridge deck, and push it down.
> 
> Steve
> 
> >have you had any experience in freeing a stuck
centerboard...cannot find any
> >obstruction around sides of centerboard...but still it will
not drop...any
> >advice would be appreciated
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 11:07:42 EST

Grove
If your board is one of the glass ones it may have a crack and taken on some
water...........the board freefalls when the pendant is
released...........so.........let out some slack and get under the boat and
pull it down to find out what is going on...

Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 11:10:40 EST

Bob

I think I'd be whacking on that roller or changing it out before banging on
the board ....
Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Fisher <bfisher@firstam.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 09:12:19 -0700

Lenny:
did that. same result. the boat rests on that roller as it is trailed.

AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote:

> Bob
>
> I think I'd be whacking on that roller or changing it out before banging on
> the board ....
> Lenny






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 14:46:49 EST

Bob

	Hmmm............are you sure the keel is retracted all the way into the trunk
?

Read something on a previous post about the pendant getting jammed up in the
trunk................sounded logical, in a way.  You have a 15, or a 17 ?

Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Fisher <bfisher@firstam.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 13:24:42 -0700

i thought of that as well. the board does not retract all the way up in the trunk, about
1" remains when the boat is loaded on the trailer. I can see the pennant attached to the
centerboard when I look down into the trunk from the top just below the winch. I cannot
winch it all the way up. Thus, when the boat is trailed it is forced up and jams. I have
had a yard lift it and there does not seem to be any obstruction. I have M-17 #373.

AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote:

> Bob
>
>         Hmmm............are you sure the keel is retracted all the way into the trunk
> ?
>
> Read something on a previous post about the pendant getting jammed up in the
> trunk................sounded logical, in a way.  You have a 15, or a 17 ?
>
> Lenny






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 17:47:20 EST

Bob
	When you had your boat lifted, did you try raising and lowering the board?
Seems like there is something, maybe a burr on the board or a blem in the
trunk preventing it from retracting all the way................

Lenny



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Fisher <bfisher@firstam.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 30 Oct 1998 16:32:11 -0700

Lenny:
you may be on to something. The first time this happened, ( I had just purchased the
boat) I could not get the board to drop. So we sailed with it up. Had a blast! I took
the boat to Driscoll Marine in San Diego. They lifted the boat and the board dropped.
Again last year and this when i launched the board would not drop and this
necessitated my solution which does work but is not the best solution. It does not
harm the board. I keep the pennant whinched and just enough slack so that it will
loosen.

AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote:

> Bob
>         When you had your boat lifted, did you try raising and lowering the board?
> Seems like there is something, maybe a burr on the board or a blem in the
> trunk preventing it from retracting all the way................
>
> Lenny






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grove777@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 31 Oct 1998 12:30:00 EST

...found a 97 cent solution to stuck centerboard...purchased a 3/16 steel rod
from true value hardware...slip the rod down the pennant tube to top of
centerboard and tap lightly with hammer...free at last as they say



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Fisher <bfisher@firstam.com>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: spares - centerboard issues
Date: 31 Oct 1998 13:28:54 -0700

That is precisely what I do.

Grove777@aol.com wrote:

> ...found a 97 cent solution to stuck centerboard...purchased a 3/16 steel rod
> from true value hardware...slip the rod down the pennant tube to top of
> centerboard and tap lightly with hammer...free at last as they say






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Larry Barkhuff <LBarkhuff@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Diagram of centerboard/trunk mechanism
Date: 31 Oct 1998 16:36:57 -0500

Is it my machine, or do the  messages from some of the subscribers not wr=
ap
around when they are posted?  Specifically the lnote from Bryan about the=

centerboatd and hooisting pendant?????    Anthing we can do???   Larry



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Larry Barkhuff <LBarkhuff@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: Overtime?
Date: 31 Oct 1998 16:36:59 -0500

Steve, (alias geezer)   I do not know about the 23 Overtime, but Gary and=

Beth Sumner have a 23 in Pertland Ore.  Their Ph num is 541=3D484=3D2768.=
=2E.This
is Hull #1 and I understand from Bob E that Gary has done some serious
improvements to the boat, new oval portlights, rework on interior ( Gary =
is
6'2" or so) and other things..  Bob saw the boat  I think In
Newport.......BTW, this time I typed the phone number correctly.....Larry=
 B



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Larry Barkhuff <LBarkhuff@compuserve.com>
Subject: M_Boats: 23 Owners List
Date: 31 Oct 1998 17:15:26 -0500

To Randy, and any others interested:   This is the 23 owners list as I ha=
ve
acquired names and locations over the past couple years:

1.  Gary Sumner and Beth Wilner    1658 E. 24th Ave.  Eugene, Oregon, 974=
03
    541-484-2768   This is the #1 hull, and is the photo boat on the
brochure, with I think, Jerry and Lyle, and an as yet unidentified lady.

2.  Nick Honodel    1012 Cosimany Place, West River Md.  20778  =

410-867-1896

3.  Michael Leonard     3819 E. Bellvue Ave.  Tucson, Az  85716

4.  Harvey Zeligman, M.D.  6860 E Roch Canyon Ridge Rd.  Tucson, Az  8575=
0

5.  Babe Logan   This is an owner finished boat.  Boat was moved to a
reservioir in Calif and address is not known at this time

6.  Randy Palmer   420 Lake Road, Altoona, Wi.  54720   715-836-9077   =

This boat has been sold to a new owner...

7.  Tony Kozlik     2936 W. Morrow Drive, Phoeniz, Az   85027

8.  Richard Lane   2137 Washington St #12  Port Townsend, Wa  98368  =

360-385-6686
                                     560 Palo Allto Ave, Mountain View, C=
a =

 94941   415-967-0417

9.  Dave Davanzati   The Ships Store, 5043 E. Speedway Tucson, Az  85712 =

1-800-699-1290   Boat is reportedy for sale  This may be the black and
white Skunk boat

10.  Cliff Halverson     HC 69  Box 149R   Isle, Mn.  56342

11.  Robert Mann  9700 Portland Ave,.   #334  Bloomington Mn. 55420  =

MMP230740179   612-885-0909  formerly Big Bird (yellow boat)

12.  Michael Rafferty   Chula Vista, Calif    714-636-4018   Summer
Solstice,,,,this may be the boat sold to new owner in Arizona

13.  Bill Wehrs   2202 Barnabee Rd.  LaCrosse Wis   54601   608-785-8103 =
  =

608-787-5810    Red Hull, "Paprika"   boat reportedly for sale

In addition, the second issue of the newsletter reported news about two
boats in Sausalito, in a marina there and John went to see one.  No news
about the ownrs was uncovered.    There was a blud hull boat on Lake
Pleasant, in Phoenix, and seen by Tony Kozlik when he has his boat there.=
 =

Richard Lane reported knowledge about a boat in Puget sound with steering=

gear attached.  I found an ad in a boat trader in Florida last year listi=
ng
a 23 for sale in the Fort Myers area.  It has been sold and is re[ortedly=

still in the area, and had no trailer.

As I understand it, there were 20 of the boats made by Jerry and one made=

by an employee who worked on the sly and sort of stole a boat.....any
comments Jerry?????


I just sold the power boat I spent last year rebuilding and repowering, a=
nd
now have started new project on another..  When this one goes away, I thi=
nk
I may have to look for another 23 to play with......

Larry Barkhuff
                                   =





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bryan Harstad" <bharstad@minn.net>
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Diagram of centerboard/trunk mechanism
Date: 31 Oct 1998 18:01:55 -0000

Some where in your mail program,  there is an option to turn
word wrap on.

Happy hunting


********************
Bryan Harstad
Eden Prairie, MN
********************
-----Original Message-----
<montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com>


>Is it my machine, or do the  messages from some of the subscribers not wrap
>around when they are posted?  Specifically the lnote from Bryan about the
>centerboatd and hooisting pendant?????    Anthing we can do???   Larry
>




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: AirEvacLen@aol.com
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Diagram of centerboard/trunk mechanism
Date: 31 Oct 1998 20:30:44 EST

Larry
	Thanks for the list of 23's..............for an update, I now own #003
.......purchased from Michael Leonard in Tucson, formerly owned by Tom Vanatta
in Tucson..............
	Leonard W. Smith
	421 S. Lake Mirage Dr.
	Gilbert, Az.  85233

I can be reached at:  AirEvacLen@aol.com

Lenny