From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Wisker pole length Date: 01 Dec 1998 11:55:15 EST In a message dated 12/1/98 00:38:04 EST, sparsons@canby.com writes: << The smart ___ answer is that it should be adjustable. Seriously, I do use an adjustable pole, and it works fine. >> Doug As I understand it, when using a whisker pole it should be horizontal when properly trimmed. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 interior Date: 01 Dec 1998 11:55:11 EST In a message dated 11/30/98 22:57:21 EST, gmhyde@wsu.edu writes: << I think the term above should be weather helm, not leaward helm. Lea helm is when the boat whats to head off the wind; weather helm is when it heads into the wind. If the sail is too far aft, you get too much weather helm. Regards, >> It's one way or the other...........if you have enough slack in your rigging, it can be adjusted during sail.............which is how the rig should be final tuned anyway... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: m-15 interior Date: 01 Dec 1998 19:39:04 EST Sorry; I stand corrected. The explanation was correct but the term was wrong. .... In another posting, it was mentioned that the sailor had neutral helm at 8knts and some weather helm at 10+. He mentioned raking the mast. This would increase W helm. Why do this? A well balanced boat is neutral in light airs and has helm when things pipe up a bit. It sounds as if things were working fine. ... To reduce W helm, one should move the mast forward. ....... In Cruising World, about 10 years ago, a great article explained helm balance. The terms used were, center of effort (COE) and center of lateral resistance (CLR). Wind pushing on the rig had a theoretical center of effort and the resistance of the hull to allow slippage sideways in the water, is the center of lateral resistance (CLR). When these 2 points were directly above one another, the boat was balanced. Naval architects design boats with the COE a little behind the CLR so that a little weather helm is normal. Corrections are made to excessive W helm by mast raking, reefing, traveler adjustments, bigger headsails, or larger rudders. If you're making too many adjustments (reefing/traveler) in less than 15 knts of wind, then permanent corrections may be necessary.... Ain't boats fun. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Record Warm Temps Date: 01 Dec 1998 18:41:53 -0600 Hi Randy, Well, I bet looking over the bow of the M15 is sure different than the CD30! Was it a spiritual experience being on the Montgomery again? Good for you for taking advantage of this unreal weather. It's 67 degrees in Mpls today! Happy Holidays Michael "Bones" Bowden ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 01 Dec 1998 22:36:19 -0500 Well, I had a great sail over the weekend, the Edmund Fitzgerald trouble with Gales of November notwithstanding. = Went up to Cleveland for Thanksgiving with the kids, then helped Chris wi= th some projects around the house on Friday while the ladies went shopping. = What I was doing was waiting until Saturday, with it=92s predicted temperature in the 60=92s and SW winds at 10-20. The weather was as promised, so I went sailing, and it was one I will remember for a long time. = Chris couldn=92t make it at the last minute, because an old friend showed= up after all, so I went alone. Didn=92t see another sailboat during the 4-5= hours on Lake Erie to the West of Cleveland. We had seen one sail inside= the breakwall on Friday, but no one was out on Saturday. Launching and retrieving were a bit tricky because the docks at the Rocky River ramp ha= d been removed for the winter. But I only got my feet wet while going out = on the trailer to line the boat up for retrieval. All other docks and slip= s along the river were on shore as well. = It was warm enough that I needed only a light sweatshirt, and at times ju= st a T-shirt. Winds were just strong enough that I thought about reefing on= ce or twice, but didn=92t need to. Just perfect! I sailed West along the s= hore for two hours on one close hauled tack, then back. Don=92t know how far = that would be - I haven done any research on boat speed yet, although Saturday= would have been a good opportunity. I read somewhere about using tennis ball on a fixed length of light line, but will have to dig out the specifics, unless someone out there can help. Had good success with self steering, at least downwind. Used an old bike= inner tube that doubles as a mast tie down to the bow pulpit while trailing. Went for up to 15 minutes without adjustments. = I was impressed with the amount of bird life out on the lake this time of= year. They were the only company I had, except for one WWII Mustang, o= r some such fighter plane, trying his wings. = Some semi-personal notes: To Janet Bajan, et al - Try to rig the mast vertical to a couple of degrees of rake. I believe Jerry recommended this a while back, and my experience confirms it. More rake should increase weather helm. My M15= sits snugly on it=92s Dilly trailer - I actually try to keep it back fro= m the winch for better balance. = To RG Watkins - My boat was purchased off the floor at the 1982 Houston boat show, and spent it=92s entire life there, until this year, sailing mostly on Lake Conroe. = To Janet again - We have bought a house in Cochiti Lake, for retirement purposes, but it will be 5 years or so before we are out there for keeps.= = For now, the house is rented out. We expect to visit the area at least a= couple of times each year. I look forward to sailing there. = To Grove - My old 1982 M15 was in very good shape - mostly fresh water sailed and kept in a car port. The board goes up and down easily, and it= doesn=92t leak a drop. It came with a good galvanized trailer and 5hp Gamefisher, air cooled with no reverse or neutral, and integral fuel tank= . = Main and jib only in fair condition, compass and bow and stern lights, bu= t no battery. Masthead light had been damaged and removed. Replacement hatch cover boards. It cost $3500 plus the trip to Texas, and I feel lik= e it was a bargain. = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: Record Warm Temps Date: 01 Dec 1998 22:47:51 CST Michael good to hear fronm you. it has been nice the past couple of weeks, it was rough weather before that. I'm enjoying the M15. I'm going out with some sailing chums this Sat. most of them have Potter 15's ( although some of them own larger boats as well ) Hope you have decent weather in Mn. My wife is from St. Paul. keep in touch, R.G. Watkins M15 "Crystal Sea" _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Hi Randy, Well, I bet looking over the bow of the M15 is sure different than the CD30! Was it a spiritual experience being on the Montgomery again? Good for you for taking advantage of this unreal weather. It's 67 degrees in Mpls today! Happy Holidays Michael "Bones" Bowden ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: Re[2]: M_Boats: Record Warm Temps Date: 02 Dec 1998 17:23:13 -0600 Randy, Likewise, Where are you sailing? How's the WWP compare to a M15? Season's Greetings Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: M_Boats: Record Warm Temps Date: 02 Dec 1998 19:05:39 CST hello Michael btw: what does the "Bones" denote? The M15 sails stiffer as you would expect with some ballast and a bit quicker since it has more sail area. The P15 is a pretty good boat to bang around on if you're not in a hurry. One of my friends here has owned 2 M15"s and 2 P15's. The M15 is still new to me so I'm sure I'll appreciate it more as time goes on. I talked to a sail loft about a storm jib and plan to add that to the inventory. I really like the M17 and perhaps one day I'll move up to one. I'm sailing in a lartge lake near Houston on Sat. and planning on Galveston Bay in Dec. It's fairly close to where I live and there are some good places to put in on the Bay. I really enjoy salt water sailing as well as lake sailing. refresh my memory where you are. Regards, Randy Watkins M15 "Crystal Sea" College Station, Tx _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Randy, Likewise, Where are you sailing? How's the WWP compare to a M15? Season's Greetings Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: M_Boats: Holiday Howdys & Travel Report Date: 02 Dec 1998 22:08:35 -0800 Whee! What a wild couple of weeks we've had since arriving back home from our 2-1/2 month, 8,600 mile RV trip. We arrived home the evening of Monday, 11/16 and spent the next few days unloading the motorhome, doing laundry, opening mail and paying bills. Then, good friends from Pocatello, Idaho, showed up unexpectedly on our first week-end at home. They stayed from Friday till Monday. As planned, Joe, Trish, Trevor, Dylan and their dog, Indy, were with us from Tuesday through Friday of Thanksgiving week. (Trish graciously brought the entire Thanksgiving dinner. We provided the pies and wine.) On Friday evening the phone rang and it was our S.F. Bay sailing buddies from Los Gatos UMC. They were already in Mariposa, headed to Yosemite, and wanted to see our new home. The house was a disaster after the grandsons, but with a do-or-die effort we got the beds made. They stayed until Sunday. After spending so much time in a little 21-foot motorhome, 2,200 sq.ft. of house is a lot space to clean three times in one week. We were happy to see our friends but Gussie was not happy about having to do so much extra housework. We had planned on a more "kind and gentle" re-entry into domestic life. I also had a lot of outside work to do. Pine needles to get off the deck and walks. Workshop (which had been used for storage while we were gone) to re-organize. A friend had a lot of dirt he needed to get rid of, so I ended up with seven dump truck loads of fill-dirt to spread in the yard. Two loads I did by hand with shovel and rake. For the rest I borrowed a neighbor's tractor w/blade. The dirt had to be spread before it got wet and compacted. Luckily, I got it all done before the 2+ inches of rain we've had this week-end. The grandsons delighted in playing in all that dirt but this week it is a gooey mud pile that the dog delights in tracking in. We had a wonderful trip. No problems we couldn't remedy easily. From Mariposa, we drove east across the country on I-40. From Memphis we drove to the Nachez Trace in Mississippi. We spent three days on the Trace... Fascinating! We were in severe weather throughout the south. Frances wet down our stay at the Gulf Island National Seashore in Mississippi. Georges' rain and humidity were awful in Florida. Tornadoes and rain (5+ inches in one day) made central Texas miserable, and we were snowed out of Utah. But, I get ahead of myself... All-in-all, it was a delightful trip. We had no special itinerary (except attending the wedding in Florida) and ended up in most places quite by accident -- or by following the recommendations of people we met along the way. Speaking of people: Everywhere we went people were gracious and friendly toward us. We made many new friends. Driving the Blue Highways also helps. Probably less than half of our mileage was on a freeway, much less interstates. We found that by traveling the back roads, the scenery is more beautiful and the culture/people are more "real". (Besides, in a Toyota-powered motorhome, you can't be in a hurry anyway.) Some highlights of our adventures: -- Seeing the Naval Air Museum in Pensecola, Florida. Worth the trip! -- Visiting with an old seminary roommate I hadn't heard from for 40 years. We found each other via the internet. -- The wedding of Gussie's nephew in Florida. -- Visiting with Gussie's family at their cabin in the mountains near Ashville, NC. -- Driving on the Blue Ridge Parkway. -- Camping in Great Smokey Mountains National Park. -- Traveling the back roads and camping for two weeks in Tennessee and Arkansas. We found a luncheon special in one small-town restaurant which included chicken, mashed potatos & gravy, cold slaw, biscuit w/butter & honey, and beverage ("Y'all want sweetened or unsweetened iced tea?") for $3.75. -- Visiting with my brother in central Texas, voting our absentee ballots and seeing my old Alacraty 18 sailboat which he so lovingly restored. -- Catching 8 and 9-inch bluegills in Oklahoma. -- Awaking to a hot-air balloon festival in Taos, New Mexico. -- Spending a week in the Navajo Nation in Arizona. Camping at Canyon de Chelly and Monument Valley. The Jeep ride in the boonies with a Navajo guide was a hoot. -- Camping and hiking for a week in Arches and Canyonlands National Parks in Utah. We got snowed out of Zion National Park, so returning some day to this spectacularl scenic area is a must. -- Camping and hiking at Valley of Fire State Park near Lake Mead, Nevada, where we found thousands of petroglyphs. Hiking (rock scrambling) off the beaten paths, we found ancient picture-messages hidden everywhere in the rocks and caves. -- Celebrating Jon's 34th birthday in Long Beach. That's about it. We had a wonderful time together. The Toyota 4-banger performed flawlessly (averaging 14.5 mpg) and our "home-on-wheels" kept us dry, cozy and comfortable. The house was in good shape and we still had money in the bank when we got home. Now we are enjoying looking at the hundreds of new pictures in our photo album and reviewing Gussie's journal about the trip. Now, where to next year...? Ain't retirement grand! Joe Kidd M-15 #207 "Poco A Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 04 Dec 1998 09:08:31 EST i have been reading the archives and noticed the comment that lyle hess is not the designer of the 15. would people comment on this please? janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randy Graves" Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 04 Dec 1998 07:21:32 -0700 Janet, From what I understand, Lyle Hess designed the M-17 and Jerry sized down the 17 to become a 15. Randy G. randy@www1.eitc.edu Eastern Idaho Technical College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: web site Date: 04 Dec 1998 10:33:49 -0800 What is the correct web site URL for rec.boats.marketplace? Thanks, Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: web site Date: 04 Dec 1998 13:15:16 CST Fran, not sure if this is what you are looking for but it does have the current M15 specs, contact. http://www.NorseaYachts.com/ Regards, R.G. Watkins M15 "Crystal Sea" ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet What is the correct web site URL for rec.boats.marketplace? Thanks, Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Subject: Re: M_Boats: web site Date: 04 Dec 1998 12:45:51 -0800 news:rec.boats None of that "http" or "www" stuff. Francene Lebowitz wrote: > What is the correct web site URL for rec.boats.marketplace? > Thanks, > Fran -- townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: web site Date: 04 Dec 1998 16:39:24 -0800 Randy, Thanks for the reference. That wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but I hadn't checked out Norsea for many months and their site has really changed. fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: M_Boats: Record Warm Temps Date: 04 Dec 1998 21:19:05 -0600 Hi Randy, I'm in Minneapolis where there seems to be a number of Montgomerys. We don't have any saltwater close by but Lake Superior is massive enough to be "sea-like". "Bones" is a nickname given to me by my brothers when I was a pre-teen to tease me,The name stuck. Happy Holidays Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 05 Dec 1998 15:04:32 +0000 Actually, the 15 is NOT a scaled down 17 any more than the 23 is scaled up. I designed the 15 from scratch, with some help from Lyle. Lyle admits that the 15 is the best LOOKING boat that I made! I have designed several canoes, mostly racing canoes, that are very good boats, especially if you ask me. Jerry Randy Graves wrote: > > Janet, > > >From what I understand, Lyle Hess designed the M-17 and Jerry sized down the > 17 to become a 15. > > Randy G. > randy@www1.eitc.edu > Eastern Idaho Technical College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: M17 Date: 05 Dec 1998 18:02:23 -0800 Found a listing for a '78 M17, with Main, Jib, Genoa, knotmeter, compass, electrical package, 5 gal. water capacity, Porta Potti, Sailmaster 4hp, $5,000. Located in Kansas City area. No phone#. Go to everythingboats.com Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randolph I Palmer Subject: Re: M_Boats: Record Warm Temps Date: 05 Dec 1998 21:13:10 -0600 (CST) Hi Bones (and Doug), It was a little unnerving at first to be back on the M15 because it moves with you. The thing is that once it is underway it is kind of like riding a bicycle and it settles into a groove. But it is sure different looking over the bow of a 15 footer vs a 30 footer. I don't know if it was a spiritual experience for me last week or not but it was very soothing - I blew off a TON of stress in that little outing and it gave me a lift that I'm still feeling. Every doctor should prescribe a M-15 to their patients! It was so nice to hear the sounds of the lapstrake hull and to smell the smells of new fiberglass again (the boat still smells new inside even though it is 5 1/2 years old now). It was nice to reconnect with this little object of my affection (Jerry M's prettiest boat). I was tempted to take a day off this week as we broke record highs all week long. That may come to an end tommorrow as snow is in the forecast with highs near 30. Reality hits again. Fair winds to all, Randy P. M15 "oui-1" M7/11 On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Michael L Bowden wrote: > Hi Randy, > > Well, I bet looking over the bow of the M15 is sure different than the > CD30! > Was it a spiritual experience being on the Montgomery again? > Good for you for taking advantage of this unreal weather. It's 67 degrees > in Mpls today! > > Happy Holidays > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 06 Dec 1998 08:30:54 -0500 Jerry and Janet, I was going to make the comment that it would be impossible to scale an M17 down to a 15' size and still end up with a boat as good as t= he M15. If you take a life time of experience and attempt a new creation it= will new creation will always show some of the ideas that it was built from. The asthetics of the lines, the lapstrake hull and the emphasis on performance cruising is a common theme but the theme rarely results compromises which work as well as the M15. Jerry, thanks for a great boat!!!! Doug "Seas the Day" M310 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 06 Dec 1998 19:38:20 EST mt jib appears to be an after market affair. instead of having hanks at the luff side it has a thick cable running the length of the luff. it attaches via the eye loop at either end. i'm not familiar with this style of jib and am somewhat disturbed as ir is not as easy to drop as the one with hanks - the cable is so stiff. any one have any experience with this/ any recommendations for use? i've polished all the oxidation off the boat with a mild abrasive and buffed on some carnuba wax. she is pretty, indeed! janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 06 Dec 1998 20:28:38 EST i read somewhere in the archives that someone has a bimint made for the 15. i can't seem to find it now. it sounded like one that could be left on while sailing. can someone point me to that thread as i would like to inquire about it. thanks. janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEHowe@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Date: 06 Dec 1998 21:01:42 EST In a message dated 12/5/98 8:01:06 PM Central Standard Time, dlebowitz@sprintmail.com writes: << Found a listing for a '78 M17, with Main, Jib, Genoa, knotmeter, compass, electrical package, 5 gal. water capacity, Porta Potti, Sailmaster 4hp, $5,000. Located in Kansas City area. No phone#. Go to everythingboats.com Fran >> Hi, Fran, Thanks for bringing my boat to the attention of the list. I get the mailing list, and I had posted the boat on it about 2 months ago. I have had a couple of people contact me aboout her, from Washington and from Minnesota. I also have shown it to a couple of people locally, but autumn isn't the best time to sell a boat! I am glad you reminded the Montgomery crowd, this boat deserves a good home. I am an avid sailor, a transplanted New Englander in Kansas, where there are many good US Army Corps of Engineers lakes. I have several boats, from a Laser up to a Bristol 24 that I keep in Maine. The M17 is the best of them, versatile and an excellent sailing vessel. My boat is well found, in good conditioned, and a good value. If you know anyone who would like to know more, you can give them my e mail address, TEHowe@aol.com, or my phone #(785)843-1495. by the way, yesterday was fair skies, 65 degrees, and winds 15 to 20 - My favorite sailing weather. I was out for about an hour and a half, a very pleasurable thing before today's 30s and rain! I don't think it was my last sail of the year, but no more this week. TH ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 06 Dec 1998 21:00:33 -0500 Bill, Sounds like you had a great sail on Lake Erie. Our weather in Connecticut has been very warm as well, but I have been busy playing nursemaid to all the oak leaves that have come down - and are still coming down. So, M-15 is covered for the winter, and has to await spring, when the temperature warms up again to epoxy curing range, and I can operate on the centerboard slot and cure my leak. Happy Holidays, Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Karen Fell" Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 06 Dec 1998 21:16:58 -0800 I'm not sure, but it sounds as if your jib went with a rolling furling system. I have a friend that just set his boat up with a furling system and had to in the process of doing that, had to run a cable in the luff of the jib. .Good luck John -----Original Message----- >mt jib appears to be an after market affair. instead of having hanks at the >luff side it has a thick cable running the length of the luff. it attaches >via the eye loop at either end. > >i'm not familiar with this style of jib and am somewhat disturbed as ir is not >as easy to drop as the one with hanks - the cable is so stiff. > >any one have any experience with this/ any recommendations for use? > >i've polished all the oxidation off the boat with a mild abrasive and buffed >on some carnuba wax. she is pretty, indeed! > >janet > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Betts Subject: M_Boats: Re: dinghy for sale Date: 07 Dec 1998 07:52:29 For Sale: 1982 Montgomery 8-foot sailing, rowing and motoring dinghy. Known as a 7-11 for its LOA, this fiberglass lapstrake dinghy has teak trim, mahogany daggerboard and rudder and a single sail. Mast, boom, sail and minimal rigging are in good shape. Gear includes a pair of oars, mahogany plug for dagger well, a serviceable Sunbrella dinghy cover with bows, a Sunbrella sleeve for the mast, boom and sail, and a padded wooden cradle. Car-toppable, of course. Dinghy is in Raleigh, N.C. Price: $1,000. Contact Jack Betts at jbetts@charlotte.com or telephone 919-834-8471 days or 919-787-0717 evenings. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 07 Dec 1998 21:18:57 -0500 Bill, I forgot to tell you that when we were up on Lake Champlain I checked the speed of the M-15 using my Magellan GPS. I came up with numbers from about 3.5 MPH hard on the wind to about 5 .2 MPH on a nice broad reach in about 10 Kts of wind. These are statute miles, I hadn't changed the GPS to read nautical miles. On our way to Panama City to pick up the boat, driving down I-95, I opened the sun roof on the GTI and while my friend was driving, took speed readings with the GPS and compared them to the speedometer readings. I was amazed at the GPS response rate and it's accuracy compared to the speedometer. The variance was about +/- 2 MPH at 75 - 78 MPH. I have the el cheapo Magellan for $99.-, and am very impressed with it's capabilities. The only problem with a GPS is that you have to stick your nose in the book and learn, and learn, and try and try, until you finally begin to make heads and tails out of what the directions tell you to do. It's probably a lot easier if someone that is knowledgeable would just show you how it operates. After your sailing account, I wistfully wished I was out on the water when our temperature hit 78 degrees today, but instead, I kept playing nursemaid to the oak leaves. Cheers, Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 07 Dec 1998 22:58:42 -0500 Connie, I meant to tell you that my brother and I used your specs to construct a mast crutch. Doug did a great job on the pintles. Since I was in a hurry that day, I just bolted them to a decent poplar 2x4 and cut a notch in the top for the mast, which worked fine, except for the bugs it attracted while trailering. After I get a new sabre saw for Christmas, I plan to cut the 2x4 down and shape it up a bit. If I screw it up, I will look for a good piece of hardwood and consider the poplar as practice. I also brougt the rudder/tiller home for refinishing. Interesting that the M15 will do 5.2 mph, almost 5 knots, in 10 knots of wind! On a waterline < 14 ft! A GPS is definitely in my future. I checked out the updated Norsea web site today. Very nice. The URL is www.norseayachts.com for anyone who missed it the other day. Happy holidays to you and all the M-boaters and wannabes on the list. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gary Hyde Subject: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page Date: 08 Dec 1998 13:12:29 -0700 The web page address is: http://www.NorseaYachts.com/ and the capitalization is important! gmhyde, M-boat wannabe, Neptune 24 am. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 Date: 08 Dec 1998 19:20:27 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >i read somewhere in the archives that someone has a bimint made for the 15. i can't seem to find it now. it sounded like one that could be left on while sailing. can someone point me to that thread as i would like to inquire about it. thanks. janet < I believe this is from Feb of 98 >>Doug, In our part of the country (Las Vegas, Nevada) a good bimini is= = a requirement...not an option. My '86 M-15 has a custom made bimini fro= m a local canvas shop. I would be happy to provide measurements if you lik= e. Also I'm sure the gal who made mine could duplicate it for a resonable = price, most of the labor was in the fitting and measuring of the boat. = Mine is constructed much like a power boat bimini with a stainless tube frame and nylon web straps to hold it in place. We worked very hard to f= it it so we can still sail the boat with the bimini up, not an easy task on= such a small boat. It did require adding an additional pad-eye for the main sheet about one foot forward of the original on the boom, but we ju= st use a snap shackle on the block and move it forward only when using the bimini (this provides shade for about 90% of the cockpit. Also instead= of canvas we chose an 85% shade cloth which provides plenty of shade but= still allows you to view your sails and the Windex on top of the mast, a= nd more importantly allows some of the wind to pass and cuts down on the pressure on the frame on a windy day. We were able to locate some in a t= an color with light and dark blue stripes which matches the boat very well.= = It's a great addition ! Good luck...let me know if you like measurements= or additional info. Steve Gray = Janet, I did build one out of PVC tubing and 85% cloth. The only time I= tried to use it I discovered that I had made it about 1" too long and it wouldn't quite fit between the main sheet where it's cleated and the ste= rn traveller. I sunk about $100 in the rube goldberg and feel I should have= gone the route reported above. Thanks, Doug "Seas the Day" M15 #310 = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: Questions Date: 08 Dec 1998 17:55:28 -0800 Is there still a Montgomery Newsletter? If so, where do I send the $ 15? Regarding the bimini from Las Vages, how do we get in touch with Steve Gray to get a phone #? Rich "Really" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Questions Date: 08 Dec 1998 21:07:53 EST re forestay and shroud tension: how do i determine the proper tension for the m-15? thx for your help. janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Questions Date: 08 Dec 1998 21:06:51 EST to steve gray some of us are interested in the bimini you had fabricated. how can we find out more about it? thx janet bajanjw@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 08 Dec 1998 21:22:50 -0500 Bill, Further to the aft mast support: I used a 2 x 4 as well, but tapered it from the pintles to the top. At the top, I cut a piece of 3/4" plywood with a cut-out for the mast, and made a rabbet in the 2 x 4 and fastened the plywood there. A point to remember: don't make the sides of the "U" too long, otherwise when you want to put your tarp over the boat for the winter, this becomes a hard spot, and will need padding. I'll modify, and cut mine down about an inch in spring. "You get too soon old and too late smart!" The height of the boom support was fine for trailering, and for covering the boat, but when I went to set the mast I found that I had to raise the aft end of the mast (my wife did the holding) so that I could slide the bolt through the mast step and the mast. So, next modification. I dug through my scrap bins and came up with a piece of stainless tubing that just fit the boom support I got with the boat (but which was about a foot too short). I epoxied and fibreglassed the tube alongside the 2 x 4 and the plywood mast "U" support. The idea was, insert the boom support in the tube on top of the aft mast support to gain another 3 feet of height for the mast. Now, it became a one-man operation to raise the mast. The angle between the mast and the mast foot was OK, and the mast aft edge cleared the companionway hatch. So, inserting the bolt in the mast step and through the mast became an easy job. Does my explanation make sense to you, or should I send you a sketch of what I have done, and give you my dimensions? Best regards, Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 08 Dec 1998 22:28:49 -0500 Connie, The previous owner had pointed out the importance of the mast angle needed to clear the hatch cover when raising. I had the luxury of spending about four hours with him, raising the mast, bending on sails and discussing the boat. So I I built my original, poorly designed support to the right height for raising, which also made the mast pretty level on the trailer, with the forward end of the mast resting on the bow pulpit. It also makes a fairly steep angle to keep water, leaves, etc. from accumulating on the tarp. So my new support is the same height. One advantage of the 2x4 notched at the top is that it doesn't chafe the tarp. Just to let you know that we Rikers have our prioities straight, our M15 doesn't need a tarp this winter as it resides in a garage while one of my son's cars sits outside in the Cleveland winter. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page Date: 08 Dec 1998 23:03:05 -0600 Monty listers, The NorSea page is indeed impressive, It made me long for a sea passage and multiplied my lust for the beautiful NS27. Someday.......... Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 07:51:17 -0600 To "Bones", I too love the NorSea 27, I used to own one. The knock on it is, she doesn't want to point. The cutter rig might be a little bit better, but with the shallow keel, she goes as much sideways as forward. Still, I love that boat!! I guess I like all of Mr Lyle's designs. Brian L. Weir M-17 "Peeper" -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:03 PM Cc: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com Monty listers, The NorSea page is indeed impressive, It made me long for a sea passage and multiplied my lust for the beautiful NS27. Someday.......... Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 07:28:06 +0000 Brian, I have never heard of anyone complaining that the Nor'Sea 27 doesn't point as good as it could. In fact, Mr. Fagan, a avid racing sailor and sailing writer did a comprehensive sailing test for "Sailing Magazine" a few years ago and if you access our web site you will see a reprint of the test.(www.NorseaYachts.com) Also visit (see the Links section on our site) the Northern California Nor'Sea 27 people and see the opening photo of a Nor'Sea 27 pinching 35 degrees to windward! (with a bone in her teeth!) With more than 160 Atlantic and Pacific crossings and 4 complete circumnavigations to her credit in the last 22 years NOT ONE person has said anything negative about the Lyle C. Hess designs fabulous sailing ability. Usually after we ship a Nor'Sea 27 to its new owner we receive a phone call on monday morning following the first weekend sail. The first thing out of the new owners mouth is "wow, I can't believe how great she sails and tracks, we passed 3 boats tacking out of the harbor"! I remind them that first and foremost this boat is a Lyle C. Hess Design and all his boats sail well. The Nor'Sea 27 has the same (Aprox) under body as the Falmouth Cutter and Bristol Channel Cutter. (and the M_17). As for speed, we have had 27s do Hawaii in 15 days! (With a Monitor Windvane to help steer) . I suspect that your Nor'Sea (I don't know the year) if it was built in the 70s by the wixom brothers may have had the light ballast of 2500 pounds. We now have 3200 pounds and MUCH stiffer. Other things that effect windward ability besides light ballast include: loose rigging, poorly set sails, old sails that have poor shape, carrying too much sail and increasing drag because of excessive heeling angles, choppy headseas, sloppy steering technique, short mast or your used to sailing a J-30 at 8.5 knots getting soaked with spray :-) To Quote accomplished sailor B. Fagan:"We set the full main and 100% jib in the channel and moved effortlessly downwind, accelerating rapidly in the 10 knot puffs. When we turned around for the photographer, Sundance responded beautifully and tacked about 35 degrees to the wind, turning in her own length and tracking beautifully when pinched her round the corner. This boat is exquisitely fun to sail to windward in smooth water and slight chop, responding to puffs like a dinghy. The Nor'Sea 27 is utterly sea kindly and surprisingly fast. We recorded 6.25 knots with 12 knots of wind apparent on a close reach......The Nor'Sea 27 is the ultimate in transportable yachts and is built to a quality rarely seen these days. She is destined to be one of the classic cruising boats of our time." end quote. Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 Brian Weir wrote: > To "Bones", I too love the NorSea 27, I used to own one. The knock on it is, > she doesn't want to point. The cutter rig might be a little bit better, but > with the shallow keel, she goes as much sideways as forward. Still, I love > that boat!! I guess I like all of Mr Lyle's designs. > > Brian L. Weir > M-17 "Peeper" > > -----Original Message----- > From: bownez@juno.com [mailto:bownez@juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:03 PM > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Cc: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page > > Monty listers, > > The NorSea page is indeed impressive, It made me long for a sea passage > and multiplied my lust for the beautiful NS27. > > Someday.......... > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > M17 #92 > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 11:29:44 -0600 Bob, Ouch, sorry for (apparently) stepping on some toes. I bought my NorSea new in 1979 or 1980 as an owner (to) finish boat. She was complete except for the "innards" which were roughed in, bulkheads, berths, counters, etc were there, just unfinished. Oh and no floor. I installed that when I got her. She was new and fully rigged for sailing with brand spanking new sails and rigging. As I stated before, she would not point above 60 degrees without an arc shaped wake trailing behind her. I owned her for two years and sold her (reluctantly) when my life's plans changed. I remarried and had another child and "Free" became too small. I sailed on a friend's NorSea 27 (aft cabin) and she also would not point very high, though I must admit her sails were old and quite baggy. Perhaps my boat was rigged wrong or something. I have been sailing since age 14 and am 52 now, so when I had the 27 I was a somewhat experienced sailor, though knew nothing about tuning rigging etc. I Shall always love and admire Mr Lyle's boats, I think he on of the best designers. Remember, I bought my Montgomery 17 because of what it was and who designed and built her. If I were RICH and I would have to be to afford a NorSea 37, I would buy one tomorrow. The SADDEST day of my (sailing) life was the day I sold "Free". I am sorry if I offended you, Sir, I really respect you for rescueing the Norsea's and the Montgomery's. There should always be a place where one can buy quality and class. Beneteau's and Hunters are ugly plastic condominiums, though I understand they sail nice, but if you gave me one today, I'd sell it tomorrow and get a real boat. If I want a big place to "live" I'll buy a house, thank you. Please no letters from the Hunter and Bendy-toy fans, I OWNED a Hunter and could tell some stories about that boat. Yours sincerely, Brian L. Weir -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 1:28 AM Brian, I have never heard of anyone complaining that the Nor'Sea 27 doesn't point as good as it could. In fact, Mr. Fagan, a avid racing sailor and sailing writer did a comprehensive sailing test for "Sailing Magazine" a few years ago and if you access our web site you will see a reprint of the test.(www.NorseaYachts.com) Also visit (see the Links section on our site) the Northern California Nor'Sea 27 people and see the opening photo of a Nor'Sea 27 pinching 35 degrees to windward! (with a bone in her teeth!) With more than 160 Atlantic and Pacific crossings and 4 complete circumnavigations to her credit in the last 22 years NOT ONE person has said anything negative about the Lyle C. Hess designs fabulous sailing ability. Usually after we ship a Nor'Sea 27 to its new owner we receive a phone call on monday morning following the first weekend sail. The first thing out of the new owners mouth is "wow, I can't believe how great she sails and tracks, we passed 3 boats tacking out of the harbor"! I remind them that first and foremost this boat is a Lyle C. Hess Design and all his boats sail well. The Nor'Sea 27 has the same (Aprox) under body as the Falmouth Cutter and Bristol Channel Cutter. (and the M_17). As for speed, we have had 27s do Hawaii in 15 days! (With a Monitor Windvane to help steer) . I suspect that your Nor'Sea (I don't know the year) if it was built in the 70s by the wixom brothers may have had the light ballast of 2500 pounds. We now have 3200 pounds and MUCH stiffer. Other things that effect windward ability besides light ballast include: loose rigging, poorly set sails, old sails that have poor shape, carrying too much sail and increasing drag because of excessive heeling angles, choppy headseas, sloppy steering technique, short mast or your used to sailing a J-30 at 8.5 knots getting soaked with spray :-) To Quote accomplished sailor B. Fagan:"We set the full main and 100% jib in the channel and moved effortlessly downwind, accelerating rapidly in the 10 knot puffs. When we turned around for the photographer, Sundance responded beautifully and tacked about 35 degrees to the wind, turning in her own length and tracking beautifully when pinched her round the corner. This boat is exquisitely fun to sail to windward in smooth water and slight chop, responding to puffs like a dinghy. The Nor'Sea 27 is utterly sea kindly and surprisingly fast. We recorded 6.25 knots with 12 knots of wind apparent on a close reach......The Nor'Sea 27 is the ultimate in transportable yachts and is built to a quality rarely seen these days. She is destined to be one of the classic cruising boats of our time." end quote. Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 Brian Weir wrote: > To "Bones", I too love the NorSea 27, I used to own one. The knock on it is, > she doesn't want to point. The cutter rig might be a little bit better, but > with the shallow keel, she goes as much sideways as forward. Still, I love > that boat!! I guess I like all of Mr Lyle's designs. > > Brian L. Weir > M-17 "Peeper" > > -----Original Message----- > From: bownez@juno.com [mailto:bownez@juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:03 PM > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Cc: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page > > Monty listers, > > The NorSea page is indeed impressive, It made me long for a sea passage > and multiplied my lust for the beautiful NS27. > > Someday.......... > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > M17 #92 > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 10:38:15 +0000 Hi Brian No toes stepped on my friend. Your 79 Nor'Sea Kit boat was built by Heritage Marine owned by the Wixom brothers, had 2500 pounds of ballast. A lot of the early boats were under-ballasted and when I began building the 27 we decided to (among about 50 other improvements) increase the ballast to 3200 pounds. Also some of the early boats had what they called a 'short' rig. It was a 28 foot mast built for windy areas like San Francisco. But you probably had the normal mast which is all we install and that is 35 feet long. The difference of 700 pounds of lead, 4 feet down made an incredible difference in the sailing characteristics, it was almost like sailing a different boat. She tacks through an honest 35/40 degrees and just screams along nicely upwind.(read the articles) By the way, Phil Squiott sailed his Nor'Sea 27 around the world (mostly singlehanded because his wife bailed out in Singapore;-) on only 2500 pounds of ballast. I asked him face to face how the boat did and he said he had no problems and had no complaints. A 4 year trip, because he stopped along the way to work. He lived on board full time while working. (his wife took the cash when she bailed out, thats why he had to find work). Hide the cash, thats my advise.;-) He sold his Nor'Sea 27 when he returned to the states. I talked to him last year and he said he sure missed his Nor'Sea but not the Ex-wife. Funny story. Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 Brian Weir wrote: > Bob, Ouch, sorry for (apparently) stepping on some toes. > > I bought my NorSea new in 1979 or 1980 as an owner (to) finish boat. She was > complete except for the "innards" which were roughed in, bulkheads, berths, > counters, etc were there, just unfinished. Oh and no floor. I installed that > when I got her. > > She was new and fully rigged for sailing with brand spanking new sails and > rigging. As I stated before, she would not point above 60 degrees without an > arc shaped wake trailing behind her. > > I owned her for two years and sold her (reluctantly) when my life's plans > changed. > > I remarried and had another child and "Free" became too small. I sailed on a > friend's NorSea 27 (aft cabin) and she also would not point very high, > though I must admit her sails were old and quite baggy. Perhaps my boat was > rigged wrong or something. > > I have been sailing since age 14 and am 52 now, so when I had the 27 I was a > somewhat experienced sailor, though knew nothing about tuning rigging etc. > > I Shall always love and admire Mr Lyle's boats, I think he on of the best > designers. Remember, I bought my Montgomery 17 because of what it was and > who designed and built her. > > If I were RICH and I would have to be to afford a NorSea 37, I would buy one > tomorrow. The SADDEST day of my (sailing) life was the day I sold "Free". > > I am sorry if I offended you, Sir, I really respect you for rescueing the > Norsea's and the Montgomery's. There should always be a place where one can > buy quality and class. > > Beneteau's and Hunters are ugly plastic condominiums, though I understand > they sail nice, but if you gave me one today, I'd sell it tomorrow and get a > real boat. If I want a big place to "live" I'll buy a house, thank you. > > Please no letters from the Hunter and Bendy-toy fans, I OWNED a Hunter and > could tell some stories about that boat. > > Yours sincerely, > > Brian L. Weir > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Eeg [mailto:bobeeg@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 1:28 AM > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page > > Brian, > I have never heard of anyone complaining that the Nor'Sea > 27 doesn't point as good as it could. In fact, Mr. Fagan, a > avid racing sailor and sailing writer did a comprehensive > sailing test for "Sailing Magazine" a few years ago and > if you access our web site you will see a reprint of the > test.(www.NorseaYachts.com) Also visit (see the Links > section on our site) the Northern California Nor'Sea 27 > people and see the opening photo of a Nor'Sea 27 pinching > 35 degrees to windward! (with a bone in her teeth!) > With more than 160 Atlantic and Pacific crossings and 4 > complete circumnavigations to her credit in the last 22 > years NOT ONE person has said anything negative about > the Lyle C. Hess designs fabulous sailing ability. > Usually after we ship a Nor'Sea 27 to its new owner we > receive a phone call on monday morning following the first weekend sail. The > first thing out of the new owners mouth is "wow, I can't believe how great > she > sails and tracks, we > passed 3 boats tacking out of the harbor"! I remind them that first and > foremost > this boat is a Lyle C. Hess Design and all his boats sail well. The Nor'Sea > 27 > has the same > (Aprox) under body as the Falmouth Cutter and Bristol > Channel Cutter. (and the M_17). As for speed, we have had > 27s do Hawaii in 15 days! (With a Monitor Windvane to help steer) . > I suspect that your Nor'Sea (I don't know the year) if it was > built in the 70s by the wixom brothers may have had the > light ballast of 2500 pounds. We now have 3200 pounds and MUCH stiffer. > Other > things that effect windward ability > besides light ballast include: loose rigging, poorly set sails, > old sails that have poor shape, carrying too much sail and > increasing drag because of excessive heeling angles, > choppy headseas, sloppy steering technique, short mast or > your used to sailing a J-30 at 8.5 knots getting soaked with spray :-) > To Quote accomplished sailor B. Fagan:"We set the full main and 100% jib in > the > channel and moved effortlessly > downwind, accelerating rapidly in the 10 knot puffs. When > we turned around for the photographer, Sundance responded beautifully and > tacked > about 35 degrees to the > wind, turning in her own length and tracking beautifully > when pinched her round the corner. This boat is exquisitely fun to sail to > windward in smooth water and slight chop, responding to puffs like a dinghy. > The > Nor'Sea > 27 is utterly sea kindly and surprisingly fast. We recorded > 6.25 knots with 12 knots of wind apparent on a close reach......The Nor'Sea > 27 > is the ultimate in transportable > yachts and is built to a quality rarely seen these days. > She is destined to be one of the classic cruising boats of > our time." end quote. > Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 > > Brian Weir wrote: > > > To "Bones", I too love the NorSea 27, I used to own one. The knock on it > is, > > she doesn't want to point. The cutter rig might be a little bit better, > but > > with the shallow keel, she goes as much sideways as forward. Still, I love > > that boat!! I guess I like all of Mr Lyle's designs. > > > > Brian L. Weir > > M-17 "Peeper" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bownez@juno.com [mailto:bownez@juno.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:03 PM > > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Cc: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page > > > > Monty listers, > > > > The NorSea page is indeed impressive, It made me long for a sea passage > > and multiplied my lust for the beautiful NS27. > > > > Someday.......... > > > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > > M17 #92 > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re[2]: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 13:18:06 CST quality discussion, honest and interesting answers, very refreshing R.G. Watkins M15 194 "Crystal Sea" ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Hi Brian No toes stepped on my friend. Your 79 Nor'Sea Kit boat was built by Heritage Marine owned by the Wixom brothers, had 2500 pounds of ballast. A lot of the early boats were under-ballasted and when I began building the 27 we decided to (among about 50 other improvements) increase the ballast to 3200 pounds. Also some of the early boats had what they called a 'short' rig. It was a 28 foot mast built for windy areas like San Francisco. But you probably had the normal mast which is all we install and that is 35 feet long. The difference of 700 pounds of lead, 4 feet down made an incredible difference in the sailing characteristics, it was almost like sailing a different boat. She tacks through an honest 35/40 degrees and just screams along nicely upwind.(read the articles) By the way, Phil Squiott sailed his Nor'Sea 27 around the world (mostly singlehanded because his wife bailed out in Singapore;-) on only 2500 pounds of ballast. I asked him face to face how the boat did and he said he had no problems and had no complaints. A 4 year trip, because he stopped along the way to work. He lived on board full time while working. (his wife took the cash when she bailed out, thats why he had to find work). Hide the cash, thats my advise.;-) He sold his Nor'Sea 27 when he returned to the states. I talked to him last year and he said he sure missed his Nor'Sea but not the Ex-wife. Funny story. Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 Brian Weir wrote: > Bob, Ouch, sorry for (apparently) stepping on some toes. > > I bought my NorSea new in 1979 or 1980 as an owner (to) finish boat. She was > complete except for the "innards" which were roughed in, bulkheads, berths, > counters, etc were there, just unfinished. Oh and no floor. I installed that > when I got her. > > She was new and fully rigged for sailing with brand spanking new sails and > rigging. As I stated before, she would not point above 60 degrees without an > arc shaped wake trailing behind her. > > I owned her for two years and sold her (reluctantly) when my life's plans > changed. > > I remarried and had another child and "Free" became too small. I sailed on a > friend's NorSea 27 (aft cabin) and she also would not point very high, > though I must admit her sails were old and quite baggy. Perhaps my boat was > rigged wrong or something. > > I have been sailing since age 14 and am 52 now, so when I had the 27 I was a > somewhat experienced sailor, though knew nothing about tuning rigging etc. > > I Shall always love and admire Mr Lyle's boats, I think he on of the best > designers. Remember, I bought my Montgomery 17 because of what it was and > who designed and built her. > > If I were RICH and I would have to be to afford a NorSea 37, I would buy one > tomorrow. The SADDEST day of my (sailing) life was the day I sold "Free". > > I am sorry if I offended you, Sir, I really respect you for rescueing the > Norsea's and the Montgomery's. There should always be a place where one can > buy quality and class. > > Beneteau's and Hunters are ugly plastic condominiums, though I understand > they sail nice, but if you gave me one today, I'd sell it tomorrow and get a > real boat. If I want a big place to "live" I'll buy a house, thank you. > > Please no letters from the Hunter and Bendy-toy fans, I OWNED a Hunter and > could tell some stories about that boat. > > Yours sincerely, > > Brian L. Weir > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Eeg [mailto:bobeeg@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 1:28 AM > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page > > Brian, > I have never heard of anyone complaining that the Nor'Sea > 27 doesn't point as good as it could. In fact, Mr. Fagan, a > avid racing sailor and sailing writer did a comprehensive > sailing test for "Sailing Magazine" a few years ago and > if you access our web site you will see a reprint of the > test.(www.NorseaYachts.com) Also visit (see the Links > section on our site) the Northern California Nor'Sea 27 > people and see the opening photo of a Nor'Sea 27 pinching > 35 degrees to windward! (with a bone in her teeth!) > With more than 160 Atlantic and Pacific crossings and 4 > complete circumnavigations to her credit in the last 22 > years NOT ONE person has said anything negative about > the Lyle C. Hess designs fabulous sailing ability. > Usually after we ship a Nor'Sea 27 to its new owner we > receive a phone call on monday morning following the first weekend sail. The > first thing out of the new owners mouth is "wow, I can't believe how great > she > sails and tracks, we > passed 3 boats tacking out of the harbor"! I remind them that first and > foremost > this boat is a Lyle C. Hess Design and all his boats sail well. The Nor'Sea > 27 > has the same > (Aprox) under body as the Falmouth Cutter and Bristol > Channel Cutter. (and the M_17). As for speed, we have had > 27s do Hawaii in 15 days! (With a Monitor Windvane to help steer) . > I suspect that your Nor'Sea (I don't know the year) if it was > built in the 70s by the wixom brothers may have had the > light ballast of 2500 pounds. We now have 3200 pounds and MUCH stiffer. > Other > things that effect windward ability > besides light ballast include: loose rigging, poorly set sails, > old sails that have poor shape, carrying too much sail and > increasing drag because of excessive heeling angles, > choppy headseas, sloppy steering technique, short mast or > your used to sailing a J-30 at 8.5 knots getting soaked with spray :-) > To Quote accomplished sailor B. Fagan:"We set the full main and 100% jib in > the > channel and moved effortlessly > downwind, accelerating rapidly in the 10 knot puffs. When > we turned around for the photographer, Sundance responded beautifully and > tacked > about 35 degrees to the > wind, turning in her own length and tracking beautifully > when pinched her round the corner. This boat is exquisitely fun to sail to > windward in smooth water and slight chop, responding to puffs like a dinghy. > The > Nor'Sea > 27 is utterly sea kindly and surprisingly fast. We recorded > 6.25 knots with 12 knots of wind apparent on a close reach......The Nor'Sea > 27 > is the ultimate in transportable > yachts and is built to a quality rarely seen these days. > She is destined to be one of the classic cruising boats of > our time." end quote. > Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 > > Brian Weir wrote: > > > To "Bones", I too love the NorSea 27, I used to own one. The knock on it > is, > > she doesn't want to point. The cutter rig might be a little bit better, > but > > with the shallow keel, she goes as much sideways as forward. Still, I love > > that boat!! I guess I like all of Mr Lyle's designs. > > > > Brian L. Weir > > M-17 "Peeper" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bownez@juno.com [mailto:bownez@juno.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:03 PM > > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Cc: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page > > > > Monty listers, > > > > The NorSea page is indeed impressive, It made me long for a sea passage > > and multiplied my lust for the beautiful NS27. > > > > Someday.......... > > > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > > M17 #92 > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 13:33:37 -0600 Hello again Bob, Well, I'm glad I did not offend you, as I said I have a lot of respect for the man that rescued my favorite boats. DEAN Wixom, right? I have a M-17 that I dearly love, but my beloved (who does not swim) was deathly afraid of "Peeper" especially being so close to the water and the "quick" motion of a little boat is a stiff breeze. I would go anywhere in my Montgomery. When I bought "Peeper", I was gonna sail the Carribean in her, when I retire in 4 years. Now, since the wife "made" me buy a larger boat (a Newport 30) she expects me to sell "Peeper" . . . and it probably makes sense to sell her. The boat, not the wife. Hmm . . . There's a thought. "Peeper" sits on her trailer in the driveway & gathers dust and it makes me so sad to see such a fine vessel not being put to the purpose which she was built. I think I'll go dream at the NorSea web site, I am looking for a "real sea boat" for my retirement, so who knows . . . I wonder if I have any elderly rich relatives who will leave me their fortunes? I know none of my known kin folk will leave me enough (if any). Thanks for the info, Bob Brian L. Weir -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 4:38 AM Hi Brian No toes stepped on my friend. Your 79 Nor'Sea Kit boat was built by Heritage Marine owned by the Wixom brothers, had 2500 pounds of ballast. A lot of the early boats were under-ballasted and when I began building the 27 we decided to (among about 50 other improvements) increase the ballast to 3200 pounds. Also some of the early boats had what they called a 'short' rig. It was a 28 foot mast built for windy areas like San Francisco. But you probably had the normal mast which is all we install and that is 35 feet long. The difference of 700 pounds of lead, 4 feet down made an incredible difference in the sailing characteristics, it was almost like sailing a different boat. She tacks through an honest 35/40 degrees and just screams along nicely upwind.(read the articles) By the way, Phil Squiott sailed his Nor'Sea 27 around the world (mostly singlehanded because his wife bailed out in Singapore;-) on only 2500 pounds of ballast. I asked him face to face how the boat did and he said he had no problems and had no complaints. A 4 year trip, because he stopped along the way to work. He lived on board full time while working. (his wife took the cash when she bailed out, thats why he had to find work). Hide the cash, thats my advise.;-) He sold his Nor'Sea 27 when he returned to the states. I talked to him last year and he said he sure missed his Nor'Sea but not the Ex-wife. Funny story. Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 Brian Weir wrote: > Bob, Ouch, sorry for (apparently) stepping on some toes. > > I bought my NorSea new in 1979 or 1980 as an owner (to) finish boat. She was > complete except for the "innards" which were roughed in, bulkheads, berths, > counters, etc were there, just unfinished. Oh and no floor. I installed that > when I got her. > > She was new and fully rigged for sailing with brand spanking new sails and > rigging. As I stated before, she would not point above 60 degrees without an > arc shaped wake trailing behind her. > > I owned her for two years and sold her (reluctantly) when my life's plans > changed. > > I remarried and had another child and "Free" became too small. I sailed on a > friend's NorSea 27 (aft cabin) and she also would not point very high, > though I must admit her sails were old and quite baggy. Perhaps my boat was > rigged wrong or something. > > I have been sailing since age 14 and am 52 now, so when I had the 27 I was a > somewhat experienced sailor, though knew nothing about tuning rigging etc. > > I Shall always love and admire Mr Lyle's boats, I think he on of the best > designers. Remember, I bought my Montgomery 17 because of what it was and > who designed and built her. > > If I were RICH and I would have to be to afford a NorSea 37, I would buy one > tomorrow. The SADDEST day of my (sailing) life was the day I sold "Free". > > I am sorry if I offended you, Sir, I really respect you for rescueing the > Norsea's and the Montgomery's. There should always be a place where one can > buy quality and class. > > Beneteau's and Hunters are ugly plastic condominiums, though I understand > they sail nice, but if you gave me one today, I'd sell it tomorrow and get a > real boat. If I want a big place to "live" I'll buy a house, thank you. > > Please no letters from the Hunter and Bendy-toy fans, I OWNED a Hunter and > could tell some stories about that boat. > > Yours sincerely, > > Brian L. Weir > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Eeg [mailto:bobeeg@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 1:28 AM > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page > > Brian, > I have never heard of anyone complaining that the Nor'Sea > 27 doesn't point as good as it could. In fact, Mr. Fagan, a > avid racing sailor and sailing writer did a comprehensive > sailing test for "Sailing Magazine" a few years ago and > if you access our web site you will see a reprint of the > test.(www.NorseaYachts.com) Also visit (see the Links > section on our site) the Northern California Nor'Sea 27 > people and see the opening photo of a Nor'Sea 27 pinching > 35 degrees to windward! (with a bone in her teeth!) > With more than 160 Atlantic and Pacific crossings and 4 > complete circumnavigations to her credit in the last 22 > years NOT ONE person has said anything negative about > the Lyle C. Hess designs fabulous sailing ability. > Usually after we ship a Nor'Sea 27 to its new owner we > receive a phone call on monday morning following the first weekend sail. The > first thing out of the new owners mouth is "wow, I can't believe how great > she > sails and tracks, we > passed 3 boats tacking out of the harbor"! I remind them that first and > foremost > this boat is a Lyle C. Hess Design and all his boats sail well. The Nor'Sea > 27 > has the same > (Aprox) under body as the Falmouth Cutter and Bristol > Channel Cutter. (and the M_17). As for speed, we have had > 27s do Hawaii in 15 days! (With a Monitor Windvane to help steer) . > I suspect that your Nor'Sea (I don't know the year) if it was > built in the 70s by the wixom brothers may have had the > light ballast of 2500 pounds. We now have 3200 pounds and MUCH stiffer. > Other > things that effect windward ability > besides light ballast include: loose rigging, poorly set sails, > old sails that have poor shape, carrying too much sail and > increasing drag because of excessive heeling angles, > choppy headseas, sloppy steering technique, short mast or > your used to sailing a J-30 at 8.5 knots getting soaked with spray :-) > To Quote accomplished sailor B. Fagan:"We set the full main and 100% jib in > the > channel and moved effortlessly > downwind, accelerating rapidly in the 10 knot puffs. When > we turned around for the photographer, Sundance responded beautifully and > tacked > about 35 degrees to the > wind, turning in her own length and tracking beautifully > when pinched her round the corner. This boat is exquisitely fun to sail to > windward in smooth water and slight chop, responding to puffs like a dinghy. > The > Nor'Sea > 27 is utterly sea kindly and surprisingly fast. We recorded > 6.25 knots with 12 knots of wind apparent on a close reach......The Nor'Sea > 27 > is the ultimate in transportable > yachts and is built to a quality rarely seen these days. > She is destined to be one of the classic cruising boats of > our time." end quote. > Bob Nor'Sea Yachts (949) 489-8227 > > Brian Weir wrote: > > > To "Bones", I too love the NorSea 27, I used to own one. The knock on it > is, > > she doesn't want to point. The cutter rig might be a little bit better, > but > > with the shallow keel, she goes as much sideways as forward. Still, I love > > that boat!! I guess I like all of Mr Lyle's designs. > > > > Brian L. Weir > > M-17 "Peeper" > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bownez@juno.com [mailto:bownez@juno.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:03 PM > > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Cc: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page > > > > Monty listers, > > > > The NorSea page is indeed impressive, It made me long for a sea passage > > and multiplied my lust for the beautiful NS27. > > > > Someday.......... > > > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > > M17 #92 > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 09 Dec 1998 20:35:12 -0500 Bill You are a clever rascal. Throw one of your son's cars out into the cold Cleveland winter, while your M-15 resides, snug as a bug in his garage. What sort of lever arm do you still have over your son, that he allows the usurpation of his garage? Unfortunately, my son has a business in Duesseldorf, Germany, and my daughter and her husband reside in Dallas, so I have no garages I can claim for the M-15. It has to live outside under it's nice new cover, with all our local squirrels stopping in to say hello. Is the garage heated as well? Connie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 21:21:34 -0600 Brian, Tell me more about your experiences with your NS27. Were you in fresh water or salt? I hear so much about the lack of room below deck, not storage wise, but cramped quarters for two adults. Did you have the center cockpit version? How easy is it to single hand sail? How about trailering, managable or a nightmare? Thankee, thankee. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 Covered and freezing in Minnesota ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 21:47:41 -0600 Hi again Brian and Bob, We have a chartermaster at Superior Charters a bit south of Bayfield on the "big" lake by the name of Dave Nixon who sailed his M17 all through the Bahamas and Caribbean. He figures he logged 5000 miles on his small sloop. He pointed toward my M17 that was owned by a sailing instructor that worked for him. I had to talk him into parting with the boat, but persistence paid off. I can truthfully say it has a good home. Say Bob, If I come to California in April can I tour the factory? Later guys, Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 20:09:16 +0000 Your welcome anytime! Bob Michael L Bowden wrote: > Hi again Brian and Bob, > > We have a chartermaster at Superior Charters a bit south of Bayfield on > the "big" lake by the name of Dave Nixon who sailed his M17 all through > the Bahamas and Caribbean. He figures he logged 5000 miles on his small > sloop. He pointed toward my M17 that was owned by a sailing instructor > that worked for him. I had to talk him into parting with the boat, but > persistence paid off. I can truthfully say it has a good home. > Say Bob, If I come to California in April can I tour the factory? > > Later guys, > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > M17 #92 > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 09 Dec 1998 21:09:17 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BE23B8.2EC6FCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, I would also like to visit your digs. What is the street address? I = believe the web page only gives a P.O. box. Dan in Fresno ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BE23B8.2EC6FCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob,
    I would also like = to visit=20 your digs. What is the street address? I believe the web page only gives = a P.O.=20 box.
          &nbs= p;    =20 Dan      in Fresno
 
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BE23B8.2EC6FCE0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: North Sea Yachts web page Date: 10 Dec 1998 08:21:14 -0600 "Bones", Aft cockpit version. I would like a center cockpit boat only with a walk-thru. The boat, while small, did not seem cramped and I say that after spending a full week offshore in the gulf of Mexico with a crew of 5 men while we sailed the boat from Freeport TX, where I had her delivered and south Louisiana where I live. I also "lived on her for (I think) two months with a wife and THREE small children in October and early November of that year, 1980. We were never worried or stressed about our safety, since the boat was so solid, all of the crew just felt right at home. And two of the crew had really never sailed before and the "experienced" two had limited sailing with me on my former boat. We sailed in July, a notorious light air month down here and kept full sails drawing at all times, to make maximum time. Every morning @ 6 am (just as I was going to sleep) we had what we called the "morning gale", a burst of strong wind lasting 10 to 15 minutes that laid "Free" on her ear. We would all pile out and stand on the SIDE of the hull and then either ease the mail or just wait for the wind to die. NEVER was any one scared or upset, though my fellow watch-mate got upset cause I would fall on his head from the windward q-berth, everytime. The N-27 experiences were in both salt anf "fresh" water, the Gulf of Mexico and Lake Pontchartrain by New Orleans, LA. It is a great boat and because I tend to have in-experienced crews, I try to sail the boat with as little help as possible, so maybe set the sails improperly and if the sails are overtrimmed, a boat might crab somewhat. That last statement is pure speculation on my part and based on no other sources. Nuff said, gotta work!! Brian -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 9:22 PM Brian, Tell me more about your experiences with your NS27. Were you in fresh water or salt? I hear so much about the lack of room below deck, not storage wise, but cramped quarters for two adults. Did you have the center cockpit version? How easy is it to single hand sail? How about trailering, managable or a nightmare? Thankee, thankee. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 Covered and freezing in Minnesota ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 10 Dec 1998 11:10:00 EST In a message dated 98-12-09 21:05:00 EST, you write: << Bill You are a clever rascal. Throw one of your son's cars out into the cold Cleveland winter, while your M-15 resides, snug as a bug in his garage. >> Connie. It must be nice to be able to keep your boat in the garage..........I couldn't even do that with my 17.. Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 10 Dec 1998 16:39:55 -0600 Bob, I'm going to take you up on that invitation. Who knows, I may even meet Jerry if he's hanging around. Happy Holidays Michael "Bones" Bowden ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Questions Date: 10 Dec 1998 20:44:09 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Regarding the bimini from Las Vages, how do we get in touch with Steve Gray to get a phone #? = Rich "Really"< His email address was stephen gray Subject: M_Boats: Tuning an M15 Date: 10 Dec 1998 20:44:13 -0500 Janet wrote "re forestay and shroud tension: how do i determine the proper tension for the m-15? thx for your help." I have not seen a good thread on tuning an M15. Would anyone out there like to share some thoughts? One of the boats I had owned was a 15' Windmill which had a "floppy rigge= d mast" and when I first sailed my M15 I used whatever positions the pins were in when I bought the boat which was a floppy setting. The first tim= e I sailed with another M15 he commented on my loose mast and lack of rake.= = I have increased the rake and now have the tension on the shrouds and forestay so that I can only connect the forestay pin with about 20lbs of pressure pushing the mast foreward. I do not have turnbuckles and do not= feel that they are neccessary. The last time out with another M15 the other boat had far better upwind boat speed and was pointing higher. What can I do? I have bitten= the bullet and ordered new sails for Christmas. The current ones are the= orginals from 1984. Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: NorSea Yachts web page Date: 10 Dec 1998 20:30:50 EST re m-15 i would like to put stern railings on my boat. who sells them? has anyone put a hatch on the 15? the mainsail traveler on my boat is a block traveling along a line attached through two holes on the stern of the boat. is this for real? thx for your help. janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tuning an M15 Date: 10 Dec 1998 21:35:47 EST Doug Without turnbuckles for adjustment you are at the mercy of the Gods........your rigging needs to be tensioned according to the load strength of the wire....several good books out there and some good videos'............while new sails are nice, a properly tuned boat will definetly outperform one which is not.... Lenny M-23 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Tuning an M15 Date: 10 Dec 1998 23:07:09 -0500 Doug, Could I ask where you ordered your new sails from, and how much? I am in the market. Reply privately if you wish. Thanks, Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 10 Dec 1998 23:07:07 -0500 Connie, Chris offered the garage. After all, that's where he keeps the Thistle he still hasn't sold - in the other bay. And three cars in the driveway. He's 31, old enough to make his own decisions. It's a detached, unheated garage. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tuning an M15 Date: 10 Dec 1998 20:57:20 +0000 Hi Doug No, No, No!! Leave the 15 rig a little loose. Forestay tension will come from load on the mainsheet, that way, when you ease the mainsheet (light air or a reach) the luff of the jib will relax a little and the sail will become fuller. This is an advantage of a bendy, 3/4 rig. If you pre-load the standing rigging you won't have this advantage. The reason that slack rigging worked on the Windmill, and many other triangle-rigged boats, probably including the 15, is so that on a run or stalled-out broad reach the mast can flop forward which will make the boat go faster. On the wind, the forestay will determine the mast rake, and nearly all well-designed boats will sail better upwind with the mast raked a fair amount. Notice the "well designed"- some boats will pick up a heavy helm before the optimum rake is reached. To simplify, as a generality, boats will sail upwind faster with the rig raked aft, and they will sail off the wind faster with the rig leaning forward slightly. If you can dig up an old copy of PERFORMANCE ADVANCES IN SMALL BOAT RACING by Stuart Walker (1969, W.W. Norton), it will explain this, and a zillion other interesting things. This book was one of my bibles about 30 years ago and things haven't changed much. I only raced the 15 a few times (and against pretty lazy fleets) and don't claim to know the boat that well in terms of speed potential, but I tune boats by playing around with mast rake until I have a light weatherhelm on the wind in light air with the boat heeled a little. Sit way forward and on the lee side. Don't even bother until you get the new sails; it's impossible to tune a boat right with bagged-out sails because no matter what you do the boat won't go upwind. Hope this helps. Jerry AirEvacLen@aol.com wrote: > > Doug > Without turnbuckles for adjustment you are at the mercy of the > Gods........your rigging needs to be tensioned according to the load strength > of the wire....several good books out there and some good > videos'............while new sails are nice, a properly tuned boat will > definetly outperform one which is not.... > > Lenny > M-23 > Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tuning an M15 Date: 10 Dec 1998 22:41:28 -0800 Jerry, Thanks for your advice regarding tension of the rigging on an M-15. Question: Does "loose" mean that little or no pressure is required to attach the forestay? I have to apply a bit of muscle to pull my forestay into position so I can secure the clevis with a quick-pin. On a beat, "Poco a Poco" scuds along, keeping up with much larger boats, and has moderate weather helm. The lee shroud gets tight and the weather shroud becomes slack, which I consider to be normal. A 1982 M-15, she still has the original main and jib. When Larsen Sails in Santa Cruz added a second set of reef points to my main, they told me the sail, though stretched somewhat, was still in excellent shape. Joe Kidd M-15 #207 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Warm November sail Date: 11 Dec 1998 14:25:32 EST In a message dated 12/10/98 23:10:32 EST, 75507.267@compuserve.com writes: << It's a detached, unheated garage. >> Aw-w-w...Bill.:(........ Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Tuning an M15 Date: 11 Dec 1998 18:25:32 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com >Doug, Could I ask where you ordered your new sails from, and how much? I am in= the market. Reply privately if you wish. = Thanks, Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel< There is a small local sailmaker, Potomac Sailmkers Inc, 703-750-2171 ( in bus since 79). I prefer dealing with the small independent shops to support the local business environment, I had them = do a storm jib last year and was very happy with it. In discussing this job= I told him that I really appreciated a boat that sails well and I was after= high performance sails for cruising the Chesapeak Bay ( lots of light winds). He asked several questions about the boat and then indicated tha= t most of the large professional, racing oriented sailmakers have biased thier computers for really flat set of sails for thier more common high aspect ratio custumers. He said that Potomac Sailmakers recommends a "fu= ll shape" to the sail and that I will be impressed with the improved performance in a full cut, new set of sails. He spoke highly of the McKibbin company who made the original sails. = As for the price I have shopped around but I believe their price = to be reasonable for the quality. Material for the sail is colored as Egyptian Cotton. This color = is much lighter than tan bark and looks like a light tan with a slight shade= of grey to it. It is supposed to look very distictive. The pictures of the boats he has done with it do look good. This adds to the price. The way the ticket is written up is as follows: Duplicate Sails =3D $590 Egyption Cotton, logo, #s and two reef points =3D $285 Total =3D $875 He threw in a 14' Nighthawk (mast head pennant 3" tapered to 0 over 14') at my request. Doug "Seas the Day" = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Kelch Subject: M_Boats: Janet's question Date: 11 Dec 1998 18:41:59 -0500 >re m-15 i would like to put stern railings on my boat. who sells them? has anyone put a hatch on the 15? the mainsail traveler on my boat is a block traveling along a line attach= ed through two holes on the stern of the boat. is this for real? thx for your help. janet> For stern railing discussion look at the archives for Feb of 1997. Do you mean hatch boards or the sliding part of the hatch? Your mainsail traveler is the same as mine and I believe is stock. I hav= e considered improving this and there was a recent article in the montgomer= y newsletter describing one persons approach. I have decide not to do a peramanent installation but occasionally use line around the center of th= e two blocks to the stern cleate If I feel I need to refine the position. = The boom vang controls the shape. Doug "Seas the Day" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question Date: 11 Dec 1998 19:00:38 EST doug, i meant an opening lucite or lexan hatch, on the deck by the bow. janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question Date: 11 Dec 1998 22:00:14 EST ...did that to my monty...got small hatch from boaters world...slightly scratched for about $50 and installed myself...k ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: M17 Date: 11 Dec 1998 19:14:42 -0800 Saw a listing for a M17 at http://home.att.net/~kehgchu/inv.html (The Sailboat Shop in AZ) 1982 M17 4.5hp motor, main,jib,genoa, trailer, stove, sink, potti, 2 berths, depth and knotmeters, 2 anchors, spare tire, $5,995 Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 Date: 12 Dec 1998 11:18:20 EST I saw the M17 at The Sailboat Shop in AZ and it's in very good condition. The current name is Hobbitt and has a Flagstaff hailing port.......... To all those who are putting boats up for the winter, we're still "in season" here. It's summer when we hibernate here. Not much wind anyway. There's always San Diego from June to October. If you come down in the winter, Look up the list people here. Love to meet some of you. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tuning an M15 Date: 12 Dec 1998 16:33:46 +0000 Hi Joe I would say somewhere in the area of little pressure would be fine. A little slop in the rig would probably make the boat more likely to win a race but would be annoying in sloppy seas and lite air because of the rig banging around. Play with it and see what you think. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Janet's question Date: 12 Dec 1998 19:43:57 -0500 Janet, "the mainsail traveler on my boat is a block traveling along a line attached through two holes on the stern of the boat. is this for real?" My 1982 M15 has this arrangement, and it works okay for me. Like Doug, I often use a short line from between the blocks to the stern cleat to center the boom a bit. I have thought about a small round port (cyclops eye?) centered in the sloping front of the dog house. It would provide light, sight, and a bit of air. There is so little room on the foredeck of a M15, I feel a hatch would be more of an inconvenience than it would be worth. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen gray Subject: Re: M_Boats: Questions Date: 13 Dec 1998 16:40:39 +0000 At 09:06 PM 12/8/98 EST, you wrote: >to steve gray > >some of us are interested in the bimini you had fabricated. how can we find >out more about it? > >thx > >janet Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Other folks have responded with the same question so here is the scoop... My bimini was fabricated by Chris' Canvas here in Las Vegas, Nevada. Chris Callahan is the owners name, she is a sailboater who makes her living doing custom canvas for powerboaters. If you want to contact her direct the number is (702) 438-4328. I spoke to her recently and asked about the possibility of a group order if others were interested, she said she would be open to that, but that the amount of work required to construct a bimini is about the same if you make one at a time or five at a time. So the price would be about the same amount regardless of the quantity. I paid around $500. to $550. for mine and that price would still be more or less the same. However she also said that in the past she has tried to ship constructed bimini covers and they are over the U.P.S. limits and have to go by common carrier which is very expensive. (I have owned the mail order, West Marine, style bimini covers before which come in short lengths and are rivited together, but they are never as stiff and durable as the single bent rods which are quite large.) If you are still interested contact her direct and see what you can work out. If I can answer any more questions please do not hesitate to ask. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: Janet's question Date: 14 Dec 1998 10:42:13 -0500 >I have thought about a small round port (cyclops eye?) centered in the >sloping front of the dog house I have two round ports (5 inch?) in this position on Umiaq, and it works rather well. They were installed by the original owner. Oh, and I think that they actually improve the looks of the boat. >It would provide light, sight, and a bit of air. I'd be really nervous about putting any opening port up forward on the M-15 -- mine are fixed, and have never leaked a drop. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gary Hyde Subject: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 14 Dec 1998 08:26:51 -0700 >Janet, > >"the mainsail traveler on my boat is a block traveling along a line >attached >through two holes on the stern of the boat. is this for real?" > >My 1982 M15 has this arrangement, and it works okay for me. Like Doug, I >often use a short line from between the blocks to the stern cleat to center >the boom a bit. > >I have thought about a small round port (cyclops eye?) centered in the >sloping front of the dog house. It would provide light, sight, and a bit >of air. There is so little room on the foredeck of a M15, I feel a hatch >would be more of an inconvenience than it would be worth. > >Bill Riker >M15 #184 >Storm Petrel Janet: Beckson makes a "vent-o-mate" that ventilates and lets in some light too. It takes about a 4-inch diameter hole. See West Marine Catalog. I used one on an Ensenada 20 I used to have and liked it. Wind blowing across it sucks air out of the boat. --gmhyde@wsu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 14 Dec 1998 18:47:14 EST Janet, I believe it wouldn't be wise to install a hatch in the deck. It will most likely weaken the deck. If you want ventilation, simply install a Nicro cowl and water trap on the forward deck. I did this, and it worked out quite well. I also installed a Harken traveler system across the cockpit in front of the hatches. It was expensive, but workek out well. Check the archives (Newsletters) where you will find some photos of Kokopelli. Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: M_Boats: Janet's question Date: 14 Dec 1998 23:13:25 -0500 Giles, I'm looking forward to meeting you and seeing your two-eyed Umiaq. I plan to get down to the Bay at least once next year. I'm not too worried about leaks - the only time my foredeck sees water is when I hose it down! Actually, It does get a little spray, but I wouldn't worry about a brass screw-down unit (West p.800). Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question Date: 15 Dec 1998 11:40:44 EST In a message dated 12/14/98 23:18:18 EST, 75507.267@compuserve.com writes: << brass screw-down unit (West p.800). >> Bill I saw that unit in the catalog and was thinking of putting one on my M-23......looks solid enough...... Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: stern rails Date: 15 Dec 1998 21:33:11 EST i looked through 2/97 archives but didn't find anything on stern pulpits. e- mails to nor'sea yachts on the subject are unanswered. would someone pls advise where to find info on this. thx janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slyingst@sonic.net (Stephen Yingst & Christina Barasch) Subject: Re: M_Boats: stern rails Date: 15 Dec 1998 20:13:00 -0800 Janet...I find references to stern rail conversations in the March '97 archives. Good luck. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 08:11:00 -0800 We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 up hills. What is adequate? Thanks, Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 08:21:43 -0800 My '81 Toyota PU (4 cyl.) is adequate, but not much more than that. Slows down on steep grades. My '97 Subaru Legacy Outback (also 4 cyl.) is a very good tow vehicle for an M15. I can go as fast as I want on any of the hills I negotiate (N. Cal has a few) and barely know Freya's back there. Francene Lebowitz wrote: > We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 up > hills. What is adequate? > Thanks, > Fran -- townsend@pacific.net (Stanley Townsend - M15 "Freya") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 10:54:45 CST Fran, my 2 cents worth: I tow our M15 with a Ford Taurus wagon. 6 cyl. it does o.k. but I think the next vehicle will be something like a Toyota Forerunner or Nissan Pathfinder, or a truck with a small V8. I like the option of having having 4 wheel drive and a winch available if I need it. I did slip around some on a steep ramp recently even with front wheel drive but can't blame that too much on the vehicle. Randy M15 194 "Crystal Sea" ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 up hills. What is adequate? Thanks, Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Becker Subject: Re: M_Boats: stern rails Date: 16 Dec 1998 10:12:28 +0000 Janet, Several of us purchased stern rails from Svendsens Marine for our M15's for about $500. Unless you are in the area or have a light truck and are willing to pick it up, you are better off getting a local Marine Metal Shop to make yours. The problem is that the rail is too big to ship, so it requires a special shipping box, which can add another $200+ to the cost. I installed mine and it was no big deal; if they do it, add yet another couple of hundred to the cost. I really like my stern rail! I think it is one of the best improvements you can make, especially if you sail in rough conditions. Bob M15 #208 Svendsen's Marine 1851 Clement Avenue Alameda, CA 94501 510-522-2886 ask for metal shop ---------- > From: BajanJW@aol.com > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: stern rails > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:33:11 EST > >i looked through 2/97 archives but didn't find anything on stern pulpits. e- >mails to nor'sea yachts on the subject are unanswered. > >would someone pls advise where to find info on this. > >thx janet > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 10:29:00 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE28DE.E544E1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tow my M15 with a 89 Toyota pickup (4 cyl injected). It's great out on = the road but pulling it that first couple of feet up the ramp is a bit = tough. Mine is standard shift. It has been my experience in the past, = that an automatic is far better for towing than the stick shift. The = best tow vehicle we ever had, was a Olds sedan with auto. Use to tow = 6000# boats over the mountains with absolutely no problems. Dan ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE28DE.E544E1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I tow my M15 with a 89 Toyota pickup = (4 cyl=20 injected). It's great out on the road but pulling it that first couple = of feet=20 up the ramp is a bit tough. Mine is standard shift. It has been my = experience in=20 the past, that an automatic is far better for towing than the stick = shift. =20 The best tow vehicle we ever had, was a Olds sedan with auto. Use to tow = 6000#=20 boats over the mountains with absolutely no problems.
 
    Dan
 
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BE28DE.E544E1A0-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 11:48:18 -0800 Fran, I use a 1988 Isuzu Trooper 4-cylinder 4x4 to tow my M-15. It is more than adequate for towing in the Sierra Nevada mountains and for pulling the boat and trailer up steep, slippery ramps. When considering a new tow vehicle, be sure to check the manufacturer's rated tow capacity. Some of the front wheel drive cars, though they have adequate power, are not recommended for towing. Also, some front wheel drive automatic transmissions have not held up well under towing conditions (too much heat build-up). Joe Kidd ---------- > From: Francene Lebowitz > To: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: towing > Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 8:11 AM > > We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 up > hills. What is adequate? > Thanks, > Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Motomike@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 14:51:24 EST In a message dated 12/16/98 10:09:36 AM Central Standard Time, dlebowitz@sprintmail.com writes: << We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 up hills. What is adequate? Thanks, Fran >> When shopping for a new vehicle please notice that the manufacturer's rated towing capacity usually comes with an "*". It notes that towing weight is reduced by the added contents of the vehicle. Passengers and their gear substantially reduces the rating. Good luck on your search, Mike. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 20:35:36 -0500 Fran, I tow our M-15 with a VW VR6 GTI. Coming up I-95 from Florida we were cruising at about 75 MPH,- no problem. This summer we went to Lake Champlain. We had to go west on the Massachusetts Turnpike, up many a hill, and then down again until we got to the "Northway" which is the Interstate heading to Montreal. This too, had a lot of hill climbing, and though I didn't lug the engine, I downshifted, the VW and the M-15 are a nice combination. Last year I had a ComPac 16, which is a much heavier boat. I pulled it from Florida to Connecticut, and from Conneticut to the Chesapeake Bay and home again - no problems, using my wife's VW Golf with 115 HP - again, more than adequet. Obviously, when you hit a hill or have to do some climbing, then you have to down shift, but again, no problems on ramps; launching or retrieving the ComPac, nor going through the mountains of Vermont on our way home from Lake Champlain. The VW Golf (a 1990 model) did a fine job. I tow using a Reese receiver type hitch, so that I can remove it when I'm not using it. I hate to bark my shins on a protruding tow hitch that is always in place. Yes, costs a bit more, but well worth the price. Both the '95 VR6 GTI and the '90 Golf are stick shifts. An automatic would be the better way to go. Makes life easier going up the ramp, and doesn't wear a clutch. Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shelley Daringer" Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 16 Dec 1998 13:45:18 -0600 i tow with a nissan 4wd pickup--4 cyl--the 4wd is great for the ramps when slippery....4 cylinders slows down uphill tho.. shelley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BajanJW@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 09:12:15 EST fran almost anything will tow the 15 but i think it's a good idea to have some leeway. all autos come with tow ratings - start with 2000 lbs at least. nothing is more of a drag than towing your limit. janet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 11:07:07 -0500 >We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 Data points: My 1987 Golf GL (1.8L, 4 cylinder, manual transmission) is marginal for this task. My wife's 1991 Cadillac Seville (4.9L 8 cylinder, auto transmission) is more than adequate. Giles Morris Arlington VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morris, Giles" Subject: RE: M_Boats: towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 11:07:07 -0500 >We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 Data points: My 1987 Golf GL (1.8L, 4 cylinder, manual transmission) is marginal for this task. My wife's 1991 Cadillac Seville (4.9L 8 cylinder, auto transmission) is more than adequate. Giles Morris Arlington VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 19:11:57 EST We all seem to be concerned with towing capacity but when you're coming down Hell Hill on the return from San Diego, brakes and handling are just as important. Nine miles of a 9% grade. That's why I recommend a truck/SUV of some sort. Highway safety has a lot to do with stiff springs, adequate brakes and a long wheelbase to prevent sway. My sailboat is 4000lbs and I have overkill with an F250/ 460V8 and 4:10 gears. Of course 11mpg is a considerstion for most people. Even smaller trucks are better than cars. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: M_Boats: Towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 21:46:12 -0500 >We are in need of 'new' car and want to be sure it can tow an M15 Janet, When I needed a tow vehicle last spring, to pick up my M15 in Texas, I bought a slightly used '97 Toyota RAV4. It's only a 2.0 litre 4, but with 120 HP and a standard shift, I have found it quite comfortable. Cost much more than the boat, of course! And I think the RAV and M15 make a very attractive couple. Too bad the green RAV doesn't match the blue sheer stripe on the boat! Automatic is generally better for towing, but I don't tow enough to wear the clutch that much, and didn't want to sacrifice the advantages (to me) of a stick. Two advantages of a stick for towing: 1) you don't have to worry about the transmission overheating and 2) you can downshift on hills to assist the brakes. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jslubliner@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 23:04:36 EST Agree with truck. I tow a 17 with a GMC S15 Sonoma - (an S-10 Chevy baby pickup), have done those downhill deals with crosswinds, uphill in low gears with everybody piling up behind while I toodle at 45mph - and recommend as much vehicle as you can afford to drive. The Sonoma gets 20mpg in the city and 27 on the road with an automatic and a 4.3 V6 - no boat. When I tow, I don't use the overdrive gear which messes with the mileage but I still drive at 65 on the open road and enjoy the safety margin. Also agree that automatic transmission is easier to use when launching. Our truck is a 1994 and has lots of life left. Do take the extended cab option, it makes it more like a real vehicle. John & Anne - "Coyote" in Tucson. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson <102072.2315@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 23:09:22 -0500 Hi Fran... I use a Ford Aerostar with 3liter engine to tow my M-17. She weighs twice as much as the M-15, and have had no problems towing it into the mountains of eastern Tennessee. I had a heavy duty U-haul transmission oil cooler installed before I bought my boat. The 4 L engine may be a bit better, but have had no problems with overheating yet. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slyingst@sonic.net (Stephen Yingst & Christina Barasch) Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 17 Dec 1998 21:02:12 -0800 I have an M-17 which I drag around with my Subaru Outback (4 cy, 5 speed). This is a barely adequate situation. I burned up my first clutch and flywheel learning how NOT to pull a boat up a ramp. I used a Ford V8 pickup last summer dragging the boat up to Lake Tahoe and never noticed it. Why keep the Subaru? I leased it 9 months before I knew the joys of Montgomeryhood. Alas. Anyway, now I keep her on a mooring and only pull her out 2 or 3 times a season. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: M_Boats: tow car Date: 18 Dec 1998 08:17:01 -0800 Thanks to all who have responded, and continue to respond, to my query about towing. It has been most helpful. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: tow car Date: 18 Dec 1998 11:48:29 EST does any one have experience w/ dodge dakota??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MacT Subject: Re: M_Boats: tow car Date: 18 Dec 1998 12:14:13 -0500 812181210EST Fran: We tow a WWP-19(gross wt boat & trailer +/- 2500) with a Ford 150 Cobra van/AT; have to look back to know it is there.. GL Grover & Doris T 'HA`PENNY' WWP-19 #965 Cole`s Pt., Va KQ4AL/KE4CYE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: tow car Date: 18 Dec 1998 18:03:58 EST A former girlfriend has a Dakota Extra cab with the 3.9 liter V6 and an automatic. I feel it would tow a 15 or 17 with ease. Get 19mpg at 80 mph. not towing anything. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: tow car Date: 19 Dec 1998 00:06:29 -0500 My Ford Aerostar only has the 3.0 liter engine w/ auto transmission. I h= ad the local U-Haul install their 3500 lb. hitch and HD transmission oil cooler before I picked up Stargazer in Florida. I'd say the M-17 and Trailrite trailer w/ spare tire, 70 lb. Evinrude 8hp= O/B and other gear was at least 2200 pounds. I locked out the overdrive gear (4th gear) per Ford towing instructions, and hardly knew I was towin= g. Got 15-16 MPG if I kept it under 65 mph. Also had no real problems towing it to Lake Cherokee in eastern Tenn., about a 200 mile trip up I-75 and I-40 in the mountains. May have lost 1= mpg...nothing worth mentioning. Tranny stayed cool all the time...even u= p the hills. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: question for Kieth Date: 19 Dec 1998 10:11:01 EST Kieth, I want to thank you for having this "inforation center" up and working all of this time. I've enjoyed having questions answered and answering other peoples'. But I sold Kokopelli yesterday. She was hard to part with, but having two boats to too much! Please unsubscribe me, or let me know how to do it. If anyone wants any of my expertice, I'd be happy to assist: Mont15@aol. Thank you and merry Christmas, Bert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: question for Kieth Date: 19 Dec 1998 13:17:38 EST This isn't an exclusive group. I don't own a Montgomery and enjoy all the info sharing. I do like M boats and almost bought one so I stay on the list for fun. Don't go if you don't want to. Sandy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: M_Boats: tow car Date: 19 Dec 1998 15:06:04 EST ...thanks for dakota info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: suthdrug@rosenet.net Subject: Re: M_Boats: question for Kieth Date: 19 Dec 1998 20:08:18 GMT Dear Bert, Sorry to hear you sold your M15 but we all have to follow our own courses. I , for one, have enjoyed your input from a purely social aspect since I don't have an M15 and just bought my M17 a short time ago. Your commentary will be missed. Please don't be a stranger and drop in from time to time. Merry Christmas ! Ian in Oregon M-17 #343 "Seaweeble" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Diehl" Subject: Re: M_Boats: question for Kieth Date: 19 Dec 1998 14:20:22 -0700 Your subscription need not end with the sale of your boat. Feel free to lurk among us and join in whenever you like. If you do desire to unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@xmission.com with only unsubscribe montgomery_boats in the body of your message. ---------- > From: Mont15@aol.com > To: montgomery_boats@xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: question for Kieth > Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 8:11 AM > > Kieth, > > I want to thank you for having this "inforation center" up and working all of > this time. I've enjoyed having questions answered and answering other > peoples'. > > But I sold Kokopelli yesterday. She was hard to part with, but having two > boats to too much! Please unsubscribe me, or let me know how to do it. > > If anyone wants any of my expertice, I'd be happy to assist: Mont15@aol. > > Thank you and merry Christmas, > Bert > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "greg" Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 19 Dec 1998 16:19:37 -0800 I tow my M-17 with a 1990 Ford Taurus 3.0 liter 6 cylinder. I did put on a transmission cooler. I live in the Monterey Bay area and have towed my boat to Lake Tahoe. Milage drops to around 13 mpg and I never tow in overdrive. Greg M-17 Full Monty #395 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 19 Dec 1998 17:08:40 +0000 Hi Janet If you install a fwd hatch OR a window in the front of the house, put in a mast post, like the 17's have. The lack of a mast post (which would really mess up the interior on a 15) is the reason for the apparent overkill on balsacore in the house of the 15. The 3/4 fractional rig of the 15 has much less compression than a masthead rig like the 17, but it is still way over a thousand pounds of shock loading and I wouldn't mess with it. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Kidd" Subject: Re: M_Boats: towing Date: 19 Dec 1998 18:32:44 -0800 Greg, Your M-17 has one of the most clever names I ever saw. Really creative. Joe Kidd M1-15 #207 "Poco a Poco" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 20 Dec 1998 09:21:58 EST warning...will say this again...the m-15 that i acquired had a soft spot below the mast and the mast had fallen through the cabin top as a result of moisture getting to the core...also decided to install a small hatch on the fore deck and found that the glass had separated from the inner and outer layers of glass...solved the problem for the tabernacle by thru-bolting cca treated plywood on the outside and inside of the cabin...this greatly strengthened the cabin top...believe there is now no need for mast post...and the result of the small deck hatch stiffened the fore deck...also...the hatch will make the m-15 possible to sleep in in this hot climate...have no regrets ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "greg" Subject: M_Boats: Re: Boat Name Date: 20 Dec 1998 09:47:51 -0800 I saw the movie which was really funny. I originally thought the meaning had something to do with the male genitals. Its slang for "going all the way" which is how I feel in my boat. Greg M-17 #395 Full Monty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francene Lebowitz Subject: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 20 Dec 1998 12:05:58 -0800 Grove777@aol.com wrote: > > warning...will say this again...the m-15 that i acquired had a soft spot below > the mast and the mast had fallen through the cabin top as a result of moisture > getting to the core...also decided to install a small hatch on the fore deck > and found that the glass had separated from the inner and outer layers of > glass...solved the problem for the tabernacle by thru-bolting cca treated > plywood on the outside and inside of the cabin...this greatly strengthened the > cabin top...believe there is now no need for mast post...and the result of the > small deck hatch stiffened the fore deck...also...the hatch will make the m-15 > possible to sleep in in this hot climate...have no regrets How thick plywood did you use? Was there any previous indication of rot or softness in the area of the mast support before the collapse? Nothing to make you suspicious? I'm looking for a used 15 so it would be nice to be able to spot these kind of problems when inspecting boats. Sounds like you did a good repair. Thanks for the warning. Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William B Riker <75507.267@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 20 Dec 1998 17:12:03 -0500 re: "If you install a fwd hatch OR a window in the front of the house, put in a mast post, like the 17's have. " Jerry, Thanks for the info. I will scrap my forward porthole idea. Fran, See article on page 3 of Spring 1998 MON that describes how to avoid moisture in the deck core when adding fittings. On an older boat, look carefully for soft spots, and tap the deck all over, especially around fittings, looking for spots with a a muffled sound which indicates moisture in the core. Gee, after a year of reading all the posts this list, I can give advice like a marine surveyor! ;-) Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerry montgomery Subject: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 20 Dec 1998 17:44:41 +0000 Let me put in my two-bits worth on this. The soft deck on the 15 sounds like a sure thing for dry rot. Dry rot is a problem on any boat with a deck cored with balsa or any other wood, and any boat should periodically be checked around hardware or anything else that is fastened down with bolts or screws (holes thru the deck). Surveyors tap around with a small plastic-tipped hammer but the plastic handle of a screwdriver works as well (but doesn't look as official). I would suggest re-bedding any hardware that seems the least bit suspicious. Use polyurethane- not silicon. Jerry Francene Lebowitz wrote: > > Grove777@aol.com wrote: > > > > warning...will say this again...the m-15 that i acquired had a soft spot below > > the mast and the mast had fallen through the cabin top as a result of moisture > > getting to the core...also decided to install a small hatch on the fore deck > > and found that the glass had separated from the inner and outer layers of > > glass...solved the problem for the tabernacle by thru-bolting cca treated > > plywood on the outside and inside of the cabin...this greatly strengthened the > > cabin top...believe there is now no need for mast post...and the result of the > > small deck hatch stiffened the fore deck...also...the hatch will make the m-15 > > possible to sleep in in this hot climate...have no regrets > > How thick plywood did you use? Was there any previous indication of rot > or softness in the area of the mast support before the collapse? Nothing > to make you suspicious? I'm looking for a used 15 so it would be nice to > be able to spot these kind of problems when inspecting boats. > Sounds like you did a good repair. Thanks for the warning. > Fran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen gray Subject: M_Boats: M-12 Date: 21 Dec 1998 02:54:48 +0000 If anyone is interested: Here in our local newspaper (Las Vegas, NV) an ad has been posted for a Montgomery 12. I spoke with the owner who stated it is an early 70's model ('73-'74), original sails with a trailer. The asking price is $1000. and he seems pretty firm. I have seen other M-12's and belive it is one of the best looking of the Montgomery family. If you are interested drop me a note and I can fax the ad to you or post the phone number. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grove777@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Janet's question--hatch or vent Date: 20 Dec 1998 22:09:36 EST no indication of problem...used 1/2 inch plywood about 6"X10" on outside and inside then thru bolted w/ stainless steel bolts and locking nuts ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: M_Boats: M-12 Date: 20 Dec 1998 23:59:38 -0500 Hi... I'd be interested in the phone number..always like to talk with Montgomery owners It would be nice to have a little brother for Stargazer...since a big brother is almost out of the question at this time. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JAMES STEPHEY Subject: M_Boats: Foretriangle & Rudder Date: 22 Dec 1998 01:05:32 Can anyone tell me the measurements of the foretriangle on the Montgomery 17? I need a Genoa and will need the measurements to get estimates. I am also looking for help on the rudder assembly. The previous owner of the boat has evidently removed some of the gear attached to the rudder. The rudder itself is a six foot solid wood unit attached to the transom by means of a bass rod threaded through the gudgeons and pintles and pinned at the bottom. The rudder also has a hole about the size of a half dollar just below and aft of the second pintle, which I assume had a line through it at one time. Is this correct? There is also a cleat mounted on the transom which I would surmise was used to cleat off the line from the rudder. Can anyone tell me how this arrangement was supposed to work? My boat is an "88," hull number MMP17412D888 Thanks, Jim Stephey Mistress Montgomery ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: Re: M_Boats: Foretriangle & Rudder Date: 21 Dec 1998 17:50:25 -0800 JAMES STEPHEY wrote: > > Can anyone tell me the measurements of the foretriangle on the Montgomery 17? I > need a Genoa and will need the measurements to get estimates. > > I am also looking for help on the rudder assembly. The previous owner of the > boat has evidently removed some of the gear attached to the rudder. The rudder > itself is a six foot solid wood unit attached to the transom by means of a bass > rod threaded through the gudgeons and pintles and pinned at the bottom. The > rudder also has a hole about the size of a half dollar just below and aft of the > second pintle, which I assume had a line through it at one time. Is this > correct? There is also a cleat mounted on the transom which I would surmise was > used to cleat off the line from the rudder. Can anyone tell me how this > arrangement was supposed to work? > > My boat is an "88," hull number MMP17412D888 > > Thanks, > > Jim Stephey > Mistress Montgomery > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 Jim, on my 23 I have anti-foul painted the rudder blade so that in the raised position, lanyard cleated off, the varnished part is clear of the water. Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John&Kris Subject: Re: M_Boats: Foretriangle & Rudder Date: 22 Dec 1998 00:30:04 +0000 JAMES STEPHEY wrote: > Can anyone tell me the measurements of the foretriangle on the Montgomery 17? I > need a Genoa and will need the measurements to get estimates. On my M17, the mast length is 21 feet, six inches. I don't know the other two. > I am also looking for help on the rudder assembly. The previous owner of the > boat has evidently removed some of the gear attached to the rudder. The rudder > itself is a six foot solid wood unit attached to the transom by means of a bass > rod threaded through the gudgeons and pintles and pinned at the bottom. And the top, so it doesn't slide either up or down. The lower pin just above the lowest gudgeon, and the upper pin just under the upper gudgeon. At least, that's how it is in my boat. The pins are those funny-looking looped-around metal pins, one side straight, one side a W, and a round loop at the top. > The > rudder also has a hole about the size of a half dollar just below and aft of the > second pintle, which I assume had a line through it at one time. Is this > correct? Yes. That's how the rudder is, and MUST be, raised when on dry land. There should be a tie point either on the gunwale, or on the transom. The line starts there, goes down to the rudder hole, through and back up to the cleat. Always raise the rudder BEFORE pulling the boat out of the water, and and lower it AFTER putting in, and the boat is floating. Secure the line carefully when on dry land. It'd be a real drag (!) if the line came loose while the boat was in motion on land. After the cam cleat on the gunwale, I tie this line to the stern rail socket. > There is also a cleat mounted on the transom which I would surmise was > used to cleat off the line from the rudder. Can anyone tell me how this > arrangement was supposed to work? Just did. To reiterate, mine goes from the transom cleat (mounted on the vertical transom, port side of centerline), down to the rudder hole, through and up to a cam cleat mounted just starboard of centerline on the horizontal surface at the top of the coamings (the gunwale?). I don't know if this is stock or not, but it works. > My boat is an "88," hull number MMP17412D888 > > Thanks, > > Jim Stephey > Mistress Montgomery You're welcome. John Fleming M17: "Star Cross'd" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grover & Doris Subject: Re: M_Boats: Foretriangle Date: 21 Dec 1998 09:15:40 -0500 812220915 JAMES: Try SAILRITE AT Look at the 'Specs'=20 GL=20 At 00:30 98/12/22 +0000, you wrote: >JAMES STEPHEY wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me the measurements of the foretriangle on the Montgomery 17? I >> need a Genoa and will need the measurements to get estimates. > >On my M17, the mast length is 21 feet, six inches.=A0 I don't know the= other two. > >> I am also looking for help on the rudder assembly. The previous owner of the >> boat has evidently removed some of the gear attached to the rudder. The rudder >> itself is a six foot solid wood unit attached to the transom by means of= a bass >> rod threaded through the gudgeons and pintles and pinned at the bottom. > >And the top, so it doesn't slide either up or down.=A0 The lower pin just= above the >lowest gudgeon, and the upper pin just under the upper gudgeon.=A0 At= least, that's >how it is in my boat.=A0 The pins are those funny-looking looped-around= metal pins, >one side straight, one side a W, and a round loop at the top. > >> The >> rudder also has a hole about the size of a half dollar just below and aft of the >> second pintle, which I assume had a line through it at one time. Is this >> correct? > >Yes.=A0 That's how the rudder is, and MUST be, raised when on dry land.=A0= There should >be a tie point either on the gunwale, or on the transom.=A0 The line starts there, >goes down to the rudder hole, through and back up to the cleat.=A0 Always= raise the >rudder BEFORE pulling the boat out of the water, and and lower it AFTER putting in, >and the boat is floating. >Secure the line carefully when on dry land.=A0 It'd be a real drag (!) if= the line >came loose while the boat was in motion on land.=A0 After the cam cleat on= the >gunwale, I tie this line to the stern rail socket. > >> There is also a cleat mounted on the transom which I would surmise was >> used to cleat off the line from the rudder. Can anyone tell me how this >> arrangement was supposed to work? > >Just did.=A0 To reiterate, mine goes from the transom cleat (mounted on the vertical >transom, port side of centerline), down to the rudder hole, through and up= to a cam >cleat mounted just starboard of centerline on the horizontal surface at the top of >the coamings (the gunwale?).=A0 I don't know if this is stock or not, but= it works. > >> My boat is an "88," hull number MMP17412D888 >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim Stephey >> Mistress Montgomery > >You're welcome. >John Fleming >M17:=A0 "Star Cross'd" >=20 Grover ** Doris Tolliver KQ4AL ** KE44CYE SM/DA ** CAPT/NAV SV HA`PENNY WWP-19 #965 out of Cole`s Pt. Plantation Marina. Cole`s Pt., Va=20 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Curt Smith" Subject: M_Boats: new home for M15 Date: 22 Dec 1998 8:38 -0800 My wife and I were new to sailing and after much research found the Montgomery 15 to be the perfect boat for us. A easy boat to tow and good for overnighting. Unfortunately my wife, bless her soul, being very new to sailing found out she gets very sea sick very easy and is uncomfortable when the boat leans during sailing. Consequently, it has not been out on the water in over a year and it is time to sell it. Does anyone know of anyone that is looking for an M15 in very good shape? I would like to find a good home for it as I hate to see a boat like this just sit there with little hope of being able to take it out more often. In addition, we are thinking about some long term travel and can't affort to store it for the little use I would give it. We are located in the San Francisco/Oakland California area and I can supply more information about the boat to anyone that is interested. I can be reached directly at Curt_Smith@berlex.com I am also new to mailing lists so I hope this is not an inappropriate message to post here. Curt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Eeg Subject: M_Boats: My solution Date: 22 Dec 1998 10:35:51 +0000 Curt, Curt, Curtboy! About 15 years ago my wife said the same thing to me. She didn't like sailboats and wouldn't support my interests in sailing. I got rid of her and kept the boat!!! I have never been happier! I thought....Gee, I'am going to miss her but that never happened. Found a girl that likes to sail and life was once again, wonderful. Don't thank me Curt, glad to be of service old boy. Bob :-) Curt Smith wrote: > My wife and I were new to sailing and after much research found the Montgomery > 15 to be the perfect boat for us. A easy boat to tow and good for overnighting. > Unfortunately my wife, bless her soul, being very new to sailing found out she > gets very sea sick very easy and is uncomfortable when the boat leans during > sailing. Consequently, it has not been out on the water in over a year and it > is time to sell it. Does anyone know of anyone that is looking for an M15 in > very good shape? I would like to find a good home for it as I hate to see a > boat like this just sit there with little hope of being able to take it out more > often. In addition, we are thinking about some long term travel and can't > affort to store it for the little use I would give it. > > We are located in the San Francisco/Oakland California area and I can supply > more information about the boat to anyone that is interested. I can be reached > directly at Curt_Smith@berlex.com > > I am also new to mailing lists so I hope this is not an inappropriate message to > post here. > > Curt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Diehlman" Subject: Re: M_Boats: My solution Date: 22 Dec 1998 10:45:21 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE2D98.2C62BD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, One day when I was messing about with my boat in the driveway, a = fella stopped his car and came over to talk. Seems he has a Hans = Christian up in the bay. I remarked to him that my wife no longer went = sailing. He then elaborated on how great his wife was on the = boat...would stand watch in foul weather and was altogether just a great = sailor. I replied, "How lucky you are to have such a great wife!". He = responded, "yes, but it took me 3 of them to get one like that". Dan ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE2D98.2C62BD60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob,
    One day when I = was messing=20 about with my boat in the driveway, a fella stopped his car and came = over to=20 talk. Seems he has a Hans Christian up in the bay. I remarked to him = that my=20 wife no longer went sailing. He then elaborated on how great his wife = was on the=20 boat...would stand watch in foul weather and was altogether just a great = sailor.=20 I replied, "How lucky you are to have such a great wife!". He=20 responded, "yes, but it took me 3 of them to get one like=20 that".
    Dan
 
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE2D98.2C62BD60-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Foretriangle & Rudder Date: 22 Dec 1998 14:05:53 EST In a message dated 98-12-21 20:51:32 EST, you write: << Jim, on my 23 I have anti-foul painted the rudder blade so that in the raised position, lanyard cleated off, the varnished part is clear of the water. Dick >> Dick I have M-23 # 003 in Phx, AZ.........where are you located ? Lenny ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Phillips Subject: Re: M_Boats: M-12 Date: 22 Dec 1998 12:39:41 -0800 Hi, Thanks for the info. Do you know if it has a jib? I would appreciate the phone number. Thanks, Dan Phillips dphillips@cerro-alto.com At 02:54 AM 12/21/98 +0000, you wrote: > If anyone is interested: Here in our local newspaper (Las Vegas, NV) > an ad has been posted for a Montgomery 12. I spoke with the owner > who stated it is an early 70's model ('73-'74), original sails with > a trailer. The asking price is $1000. and he seems pretty firm. > > I have seen other M-12's and belive it is one of the best looking > of the Montgomery family. If you are interested drop me a note and > I can fax the ad to you or post the phone number. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sparsons@canby.com (Steve Parsons) Subject: M_Boats: Happy Holidays Date: 25 Dec 1998 12:20:18 -0800 Just a quick note to wish all of you very happy holidays. Regards, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chbenneck@juno.com (Conbert H Benneck) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 26 Dec 1998 19:29:32 -0500 To all my fellow sailors May 1999 bring you fair winds, fair tides; and always a hands-breadth of water under your keels. Happy sailing. Katrina and Connie M-15 #400 LEPPO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 27 Dec 1998 12:45:22 -0600 Connie, Happy New Year and fair winds to you and all Monty listers. BTW, have you read "The Perfect Storm"? A rather riveting read I must say. I wonder if the crew aboard the Fantome went through a similar experience trying to dodge hurricane Mitch. Think spring. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis W. Farrell" Subject: M_Boats: Good GPS Information Site Date: 27 Dec 1998 15:59:18 -0800 There is an interesting GPS information site that's worth spending a few minutes with (courtesy of Judith Blumhorst on the West Wight Potter mailing list) http://joe.mehaffey.com/ -- dwf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: Looking for........... Date: 27 Dec 1998 19:15:28 EST Hey gang.... Any M-boat owners out there in Connecticut? I'm looking for information on a boat hauling business called Jordan Marine and would appreciate any info. Thanks a bunch, Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David & Nancy Phippeny Subject: M_Boats: Howdy Date: 27 Dec 1998 19:27:17 -0600 I bought a M17 about 16 months ago but have only had it out a couple hours. Just found the list and have been reading hours. Lot's of great stuff! Plan to do a lot more time on the water this coming year. I'm in central Texas at Canyon Lake. Dave M17 noname yet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Lane Subject: M_Boats: M-23 Sadhana back in the water and for "sail" Date: 27 Dec 1998 20:22:59 -0800 I have Sadhana back in the water at Pete's Harbor, Redwood City, California, still want to sell her. Dick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harvey Wilson Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 27 Dec 1998 23:28:50 -0500 Hi Connie and Bones.. I haven't read "The Perfect Storm" yet, but one of my daughters gave me= an old book called "Storm", by George R. Stewart. Originally written in= 1941, reprinted several times up to 1975. An interesting insite into meteorology as done then (no GOES satellite), how the storm developed, grew and how it affected the lives of many peopl= e. Only about halfway thru, but it's a fascinating read. Seasons Greetings to you and all Montgomery sailors. Harvey/ Ga = M-17 Stargazer #294 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: Howdy Date: 27 Dec 1998 23:13:31 CST hello Dave, We're not to far away, College Station and I sailed at Canyon Lake back in Sept. a beautiful area. Hope to make it out there this Spring. Do you trailer your boat or keep it at Canyon Lake? BTW: I'm puting a list together of other Montgomery Texas sailors so send me yours if you would. Regards R.G. Watkins College Station, Tx _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet I bought a M17 about 16 months ago but have only had it out a couple hours. Just found the list and have been reading hours. Lot's of great stuff! Plan to do a lot more time on the water this coming year. I'm in central Texas at Canyon Lake. Dave M17 noname yet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tempting Tear-Outs Subject: M_Boats: 037 ===>> FREE 1 yr USA Magazine Sub sent worldwide-200+ Date: 28 Dec 1998 00:28:06 -0400 To be removed from our mailing list, send a blank email message, with the subject of "remove" to: tempting.tear-outs@wolf.net -- FOR MORE INFO: please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown, and fax it, for the fastest reply to: 1-718-227-9125 (this is a fax # in the USA) or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to: Tempting Tear-Outs Att. 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For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company letterhead, w/business card, via smail to: Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY 10312-3828, USA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David & Nancy Phippeny Subject: M_Boats: Canyon Lake Date: 28 Dec 1998 08:35:36 -0600 Hi Randy, I keep the boat on a trailer and launch at the Canyon Lake yatch Club as we have a great ramp in highwater or low. I downsized from a Cape Dory 25D and need to get the M17 out more this coming year and hope you will come over. David Phippeny 112 Sunrise Canyon Lake, Tx 78133 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: username@sonic.net (Stephen & Christina) Subject: Re: M_Boats: 037 ===>> FREE 1 yr USA Magazine Sub sent worldwide-200+ Choices! Date: 28 Dec 1998 07:49:39 -0800 Don't send spam to Montgomery Boats. Crap/crap/crap! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: Canyon Lake Date: 28 Dec 1998 09:55:26 CST hello David, sounds good, let's get together when things warm up this Spring. Regards, Randy Watkins 618 Fairview College Station, Tx 77840 M15#194 "Crystal Sea" _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Hi Randy, I keep the boat on a trailer and launch at the Canyon Lake yatch Club as we have a great ramp in highwater or low. I downsized from a Cape Dory 25D and need to get the M17 out more this coming year and hope you will come over. David Phippeny 112 Sunrise Canyon Lake, Tx 78133 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: 037 ===>> FREE 1 yr USA Magazine Sub sent worldwide Date: 28 Dec 1998 10:45:14 -0600 Well, It wasn't me!! -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 9:50 AM worldwide-200+ Choices! Up to $50.00 value! Don't send spam to Montgomery Boats. Crap/crap/crap! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rc2222@pacbell.net Subject: M_Boats: Sadhana Date: 28 Dec 1998 09:28:44 -0800 Dick: Recently had lunch at Pete's Harbor in Redwood City and saw Sadhana "Looking Good" at the premier berth of Yachts 101. You should get lots of "Lookers".- A much better location than across the parking lot. Rich Cottrell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: Re: M_Boats: Date: 28 Dec 1998 15:31:51 -0500 For those of you who like to read, if you can locate a copy of a book called "Shipkiller", author Justin Scott, published in about 1976, it wil= l keep you fascinated for hours.....It will be hard to locate, best found i= n those paperback exchange stores where you trade and buy used paperbacks......I have three copies, and have read the original maybe 20 times or so.....And no I don't want any comments about being a slow reade= r, etc.....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Weir Subject: RE: M_Boats: Date: 28 Dec 1998 14:59:55 -0600 Let's see, Great book, hard to find, You have THREE COPIES, Hmmm . . . Now that you have us interested in a book that is SO GOOD that you read it (fast) 20 times, how bout setting up a lending library of the two EXTRA copies you have. Whoever doesn't either pass it on or return to you, we hunt down like a dog and KILL!! "Am I right, fellas", (as the unruly mob surrounded and inched closer to Larry), "Lets storm the castle and take what's ours anyway", cried someone in the crowd. Oh sorry, Larry, I got carried away. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 2:32 PM Cc: Larry Barkhuff For those of you who like to read, if you can locate a copy of a book called "Shipkiller", author Justin Scott, published in about 1976, it will keep you fascinated for hours.....It will be hard to locate, best found in those paperback exchange stores where you trade and buy used paperbacks......I have three copies, and have read the original maybe 20 times or so.....And no I don't want any comments about being a slow reader, etc.....Larry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JAMES STEPHEY Subject: M_Boats: Foretriangle Measurements Date: 29 Dec 1998 04:42:36 Thanks for all your comments and suggestions on the rudder assembly. I am still searching for the foretriangle measurements for the Montgomery 17. Anyone able to help? I plan to add a 150 genoa to my sail inventory. Anyone have any comments on performance with a 150? Thanks Jim Stephey Mistress Montgomery ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Fell Subject: Re: M_Boats: 037 ===>> FREE 1 yr USA Magazine Sub sent worldwide-200+ Date: 28 Dec 1998 23:10:16 -0800 Remove ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mont15@aol.com Subject: M_Boats: boats Date: 29 Dec 1998 12:28:18 EST unsubscribe montgomery_boats ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randolph I. Palmer" Subject: M_Boats: Two M17's for sale Date: 30 Dec 1998 08:17:51 -0600 FYI: I see that there are two M17's for sale in Minnseota. They are listed on the Sailing Breezes site . 17 Montgomery, 2 Sails, Trlr, 6hp Johnson OB, Nice 1985 $7,600 Hooper's Yachts 17 Montgomery, 4 Sails, CDI Furler, Trlr., Compass 1975 $4,995 Hooper's Yachts Hooper's Yachts 651-436-8795 800-377-8795 Yawl have a slooper New Years! (I know, my bad puns will ketch up to me schooner or later) Randy P. --! /|\ /_| ) ~~'====" Randy Palmer S/V Oui-1 Montgomery 15 #515 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Canyon Lake Date: 29 Dec 1998 14:38:45 -0600 Hi David, Is there something you didn't like about the CD25D? I understand they're marvelous boats. Granted, ease of use and trailerability are strong points of the M17. Perhaps you still have both boats and you are simply a "collector". Tell us your thoughts. Michael "Bones" Bowden M17 #92 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Sweany Subject: M_Boats: First time posting to the Montgomery owners' list Date: 30 Dec 1998 12:53:44 -0800 (PST) Hello everyone. By way of introducing myself, my name's Brian Sweany and I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. I'm looking to buy a new or well-maintained used Montgomery 15 after July 1, 1999, and this is my first post to your mailing list. Having researched and test-sailed A LOT of boats in the last year-and-a-half I feel the Montgomery 15 is BY FAR the best boat in its class. I just talked to Bob Eeg over at Nor'Sea today and he says they need three firm buyers of the 15 before they commence with production of the boats. Any takers out there? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy_Watkins@odp.tamu.edu Subject: Re: M_Boats: First time posting to the Montgomery owners' li Date: 30 Dec 1998 17:13:22 CST hello Brian, Sounds like you are making a good choice in boats! IF you could get your hands on one of the new ones that would be a great situation. You may want to subscribe to the Montgomery Owner's newsletter. It has a for sale section and there are always boats for sale as well as general information about the Montgomery boats and sailors. If you need more info contact the editor ( Terry ) at: Schwarze@vax2.winona.MSUS.edu Regards, R.G. Watkins M15#194 "Crystal Sea" _______________________ Reply Separator _______________________ Author: montgomery_boats@lists.xmission.com at #Internet Hello everyone. By way of introducing myself, my name's Brian Sweany and I live in Indianapolis, Indiana. I'm looking to buy a new or well-maintained used Montgomery 15 after July 1, 1999, and this is my first post to your mailing list. Having researched and test-sailed A LOT of boats in the last year-and-a-half I feel the Montgomery 15 is BY FAR the best boat in its class. I just talked to Bob Eeg over at Nor'Sea today and he says they need three firm buyers of the 15 before they commence with production of the boats. Any takers out there? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Two M17's for sale Date: 30 Dec 1998 14:35:44 -0600 Cute Randy! I liked it. Bones ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bownez@juno.com (Michael L Bowden) Subject: Re: M_Boats: Two M17's for sale Date: 30 Dec 1998 14:35:44 -0600 Cute Randy! I liked it. Bones ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David & Nancy Phippeny Subject: Re: M_Boats: Canyon Lake Date: 30 Dec 1998 19:23:38 -0600 Michael L Bowden wrote: > > Hi David, > > Is there something you didn't like about the CD25D? I understand they're > marvelous boats. Granted, ease of use and trailerability are strong > points of the M17. Perhaps you still have both boats and you are simply a > "collector". > Tell us your thoughts. > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > M17 #92 > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Hi Bones The CD25D is a great boat. She is easily sailed single handed and is every bit the boat she is reported to be. I bought the 25D in the mid 80's then went through a cancer fight that broke me. Beat the cancer but lost everything but the 25D. This last year I sold her for money to build a building for my current business. Hated to see her go but we do what we must. What made my decision to sell her was finding the M17. All has worked well and now need to get the 17 out soon. The man who bought the 25D told me the other day he has half hearted thought of selling the 25D in favor of a M23. Anyone interested I will give his address. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AirEvacLen@aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Canyon Lake Date: 31 Dec 1998 10:55:37 EST In a message dated 12/30/98 20:25:01 EST, davenanc@gvtc.com writes: << The man who bought the 25D told me the other day he has half hearted thought of selling the 25D in favor of a M23. Anyone interested I will give his address. Dave >> Dave Wish him luck...........not too many M-23's out there to chose from........ Lenny M-23#003 Sea Horse ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandyal55@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: M_Boats: Canyon Lake Date: 31 Dec 1998 15:31:21 EST There's a 23 for sale in Redwood City Ca. Yachts 101 Home Page ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Barkhuff Subject: RE: M_Boats: Date: 31 Dec 1998 23:44:21 -0500 OK I MIGHT be persuaded to send a copy to be read......and returned.....t= o those with a qualified library card...... = Proper collateral will be required......with a note from your mother......Larry