From: GreenBill@aol.com Subject: Field Managing June 7 Date: 02 Jun 1997 23:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Can anybody field manage this Saturday, June 7. I will take almost any date later in the summer. I have to visit my wife's family in Southern California this weekend. Thanks, Bill Green ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: svmes@halley.ca.essd.northgrum.com (Mike Schneider) Subject: G-103 to sierras?? Date: 03 Jun 1997 11:09:41 -0700 NCSAers: Has anyone arranged to move the G-103 to the mountains? I'm told that it's still assembled at Byron. I have a spare trailer hitch available if we can arrange to have it ready for transport by Friday evening. Mike Schneider ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WSNOW@mail.bethany.edu Subject: Trailer for Grob 103 Date: 03 Jun 1997 10:29:13 -0800 We will not be loaning/renting out our trailer. Soar Truckee does not own one and would not be able to help us if we had a land out. So, case closed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bruce roberts Subject: Re: G-103 to sierras?? Date: 03 Jun 1997 11:25:03 -0700 Mike, Marty, FYI, we bought and installed missing "flooring" on the trailer Sunday, & replaced some of the missing rivets with bolts. Should be OK for the trip, but all the wood floor should be replaced soon. As of Saturday nite, the 103 was not disassembled. At 11:09 AM 6/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >NCSAers: > >Has anyone arranged to move the G-103 to the mountains? I'm told that it's >still assembled at Byron. I have a spare trailer hitch available if we >can arrange to have it ready for transport by Friday evening. > >Mike Schneider > > > Bruce Roberts PSG/CGS Product Eng Santa Clara/A2895/Post C9 Phone 408-721-6941/Fax 408-721-1868 brucer@rockie or bruce.c.roberts@nsc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WSNOW@mail.bethany.edu Subject: Glider partnerships Date: 03 Jun 1997 19:14:26 -0800 Irv and I are contemplating entering into a partnership to purchase a glider. I know that many are experienced in this area. Could we get some advice? I have many questions. How do you prove owner ship in a glider, is it just the registration or is their some type of title like a car? Can you get multiple names on the proof of ownership? Did others who have done this had a legal contract or was it a hand shake deal? What were the major pitfalls experienced by others who have tried this? Any insurance issues that are tied to partnerships? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cpedsc@rockie.nsc.com (Peter Deane) Subject: Re: Glider partnerships Date: 05 Jun 1997 09:30:00 PDT Willy; There are many peolpe experienced in partnerships in the club. Rolf and myself, for example. Give me a call and I'll be happy to talk about what Rolf and I did. Meanwhile, there is an important book you should read. Its called 'Buying a used sailplane' by Jim PAyne; he advertises in Soaring sometimes, and has his own web page; send him email and he'll send you a copy for a few dollars. Essential info for buying sailplanes. Regards Peter PS Are you guys going for a PW5?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: andres glassow Subject: Re: '97 NCSA FM List Date: 05 Jun 1997 17:35:28 -0700 Hi I have some family that came from denmark That I did not know about. I would like to cancel out for sat an do my training next sat. If not I will have to leave by 4:00 Pm. thanks. Andres. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SidneyM53@aol.com Subject: Re: Glider partnerships Date: 06 Jun 1997 08:23:03 -0400 (EDT) I have a copy of a short book titled "Buying a Used Sailplane" by Jim Payne that I found very usefull. I will throw it in my flight bag so it is available. You are more than welcome to borrow it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cpedsc@rockie.nsc.com (Peter Deane) Subject: CRAZY CREEK PASCO LEAGUE RESULTS Date: 09 Jun 1997 11:15:01 PDT Beautiful people; Here are the results of this weekends PASCO League event at Crazy Creek. We had good soaring weather both days, but neither day was a 'no-brainer', both days requiring significant gear changing and planning to make it round some of the turnpoints. Day 1; Pundit course was Crazy Creek, Lampson, 5 ponds, Pope Valley, Crazy Creek, Hoburg, 5 ponds, Pope Valley and return for 144mls. Intermediate and Novice courses were set inside this 2 lap track. We had good streeting for part of the course with significant blue holes at Lampson and Pope. Lampson caused most problems for the Pundits with a very long glide out and back with sweaty rock scraping for those who made it around. Marc Ramsey showed everyone the benefits of a conservative approach by getting very high before leaving so he didnt waste much time scraping the rocks to return to the strong lift. Very weak in the blue, 7-8kn average in the best street-climbs. Winners in each class were Pundit; Marc Ramsey Intermediate; Mike Bell Novice; Doug Padrick Day 2; Pundit course was Crazy Creek, Kits Corner, 5 ponds, 7M, Crazy Creek, Hoburg & return for 72 mls. Intermediate and Novice courses were set inside this track. Similar conditions to Day 1 but with high cirrus, more instability in the airmass which made for some rock & roll and difficult centering in the thermals, significant sea breeze effects in the afternoon which made the last turn at Hoburg a little challenging. Most pilots who did not complete were skunked by the last turn at Hoburg. Winners in each class were Pundit; Peter Deane Intermediate; Hud Staffield Novice; Doug Padrick Congrats to Doug Padrick who won Novice overall for the Impossibles, and Hud Staffield who flew very well on day 2. Hud is making great progress and is a pilot to watch. We had some new novices, Roger Archey and Mark Darlington, who put on a good showing in their first event of this kind. It was nice to see Roger flying as well as cooking! Sid Moore flew well in Intermediate, finishing both days in his first event in this class, he flew Novice at Avenal. Dan Dunkel flew for the first time in the League and did just fine; hope to see you at future events Dan. THE PARTY; ---------- A truly great spread, orchestrated by Roger & Rebecca Archey, Krista and friends, made the weekend a great social time. Hats off, and our thanks to the organizers from all who enjoyed this fine party. THE ORGANIZATION; ----------------- Thanks to all who helped on the ground, Jeannie (spelling?) and Mary Bell for running the gate, Pete Alexander for his usual laid back CD style, and Jim & Connie Indrebo for hosting us for the weekend. LEAGUE STANDINGS ---------------- The Impossibles are in the lead after 2 events, closely followed by the Demons..Looking forward to the next event at Truckee. FINAL PLACINGS -------------- Place Pilot Number Cumulative League Pts Team Pundit 1 P. Deane 2T 1881.50 4.8 Demons 2 S. Davis S4 1530.60 4 Airheads 3 M. Ramsey 54 1355.14 3.2 Slugs 4 P. Alexander 98 1300.53 2.4 Buzzards 5 P. Sasse CE 779.28 1.6 Snails 6 D. Beuttler W4 408.83 0.8 Impossibles Intermediate 1 H. Staffield OO 1975.34 6 Impossibles 2 T. Hubbard VN 1826.20 5 Buzzards 3 M. Bell 88 1804.66 4 Airheads 4 D. Dunkel 4S 1714.77 3 Snails 5 S. Moore RH 1634.82 2 Demons 6 J. Bell JB 860.80 1 Slugs Novice 1 D. Padrick DP 1733.33 4.8 Impossibles 2 R. Archey MK 1082.82 3.6 Airheads 3 M. Darlington RX 938.05 2.4 Demons 4 D. Lent/Lezius 4G 319.13 1.2 Slugs AVENAL C.CREEK Cum. Cum. Team Novice Impossibles 8.6 11.6 20.2 6 Demons 10.6 9.2 19.8 6 Buzzards 6.6 7.4 14 4.8 Slugs 8 5.4 13.4 3.6 Airheads 0 11.6 11.6 3.6 Devils 11.2 0 11.2 6 Snails 0 4.6 4.6 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sprinkle@mtest.teradyne.com (Rob Sprinkle) Subject: New tow pilot exemptions. Date: 11 Jun 1997 14:34:30 -0700 The extension of the "private tow pilot exemption" is now available. I will make copies and put them on the desk in the trailer on or before this Saturday morning. The old exemption expired May 31. The extension is required to be added to the existing exemption and is to be "kept with your logbook". This exemption is only required until Aug 4 - the date the new Part 61 takes effect. Rob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Addis" Subject: '97 NCSA FM List Date: 11 Jun 1997 18:34:22 -0800 Regarding: '97 NCSA FM List Since April we're running about a 20% "NO SHOW" with field managers. Remember...this is a Club obligation like clean-up day. If you prefere to do something else rather than Field Manager petition the Board with your proposal... until then IT'S YOUR RESPONSABILITY to find a substitute if you can't make the alotted time.....please forward changes to Addis. I have been contacting individuals who have missed their time and rescheduling them. Feel free to phone them and ask them to substitute for you. Thanks ahead of time! NCSA Field Manager Assignments for 1997 April 1997 5, Saturday......Jona 6, Sunday......Snydr-Michael 12, Saturday......Tarle 13, Sunday......Thunen (Missed, assigned to 6/21) 19, Saturday......Waltz (Missed) 20, Sunday......Keleman 26, Saturday......App 27, Sunday......Addis May 1997 3, Saturday......Allender 4, Sunday......Alton 10, Saturday......Williams 11, Sunday......Apps 17, Saturday......Boyce 18, Sunday......Bill Green 24, Saturday......Gustaffson 25, Sunday......Deane (Missed) 31, Saturday......Ferguson June 1997 1, Sunday......Friedrich 7, Saturday......Bill Green (Missed) 8, Sunday......Mike Green 14, Saturday......Glassow (trainee) & Greenhill 15, Sunday......Grom 21, Saturday...... Thunen (for 4/13) 22, Sunday......Horn 28, Saturday......Johnson 29, Sunday......W. Snow July 1997 5, Saturday......Weil 6, Sunday......Larder 12, Saturday......Michael 13, Sunday......Moeller 19, Saturday......Mooney(trainee) & Moore 20, Sunday......Niedrauer 26, Saturday......Poco 27, Sunday......Powalka August 1997 2, Saturday......Pruchnick 3, Sunday......Randazzo 9, Saturday......Rathbun 10, Sunday......Reuland 16, Saturday......Roberts 17, Sunday......Semans 23, Saturday......W. Snow 24, Sunday......Snydr-Michael 30, Saturday......Tarle 31, Sunday......Thunen September 1997 6, Saturday......Waltz 7, Sunday......Weil 13, Saturday......Williams 14, Sunday......Addis 20, Saturday......Allender 21, Sunday......Alton 27, Saturday......App 28, Sunday......Apps October 1997 4, Saturday......Boyce 5, Sunday......Brown 11, Saturday......Waltz (for 4/19) 12, Sunday......Deane 18, Saturday......Ferguson 19, Sunday......Friedrich 25, Saturday......Green, Bill 26, Sunday......Green, Mike November 1997 1, Saturday......Glassow 2, Sunday......Greenhill 8, Saturday......Grom 9, Sunday......Gustaffson 15, Saturday......Horn 16, Sunday......Johnson 22, Saturday......Jona 23, Sunday......Kelemen 29, Saturday......Larder 30, Sunday......Michael December 1997 6, Saturday......Moeller 7, Sunday......Mooney 13, Saturday......Moore 14, Sunday......Niedrauer 20, Saturday......Poco 21, Sunday......Powalka 27, Saturday......Pruchnick 28, Sunday......Randazzo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LAUMANN@aol.com Subject: Fwd: regionals Date: 12 Jun 1997 02:04:01 -0400 (EDT) NCSA'rs, A note below to see if anyone in our club is headed up to Montague for the Regionals, and would like to pair up with John Shelton from Montague. He flies an ASW-20 down in Avenal. Drop him an e-mail if you're interested! Curt In a message dated 97-06-12 00:52:21 EDT, shelton@imdata.com (john) writes: << Subj: regionals Date: 97-06-12 00:52:21 EDT From: shelton@imdata.com (john) To: laumann@aol.com Curt, My crew from Avenal just canceled and I was planning to go compete at Montague. Do you know anyone from Byron who is going up who would like to share a room and the occasional thermal? Usually, you guys have several people going up. Most of ours go to the Region 12 stuff in Inyokern. I hate to race without a crew. Your speed ring seems to always be set at a lower setting when you don't know who is going to be driving your car. John Shelton (05) `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````` --------------------- Forwarded message: Curt, My crew from Avenal just canceled and I was planning to go compete at Montague. Do you know anyone from Byron who is going up who would like to share a room and the occasional thermal? Usually, you guys have several people going up. Most of ours go to the Region 12 stuff in Inyokern. I hate to race without a crew. Your speed ring seems to always be set at a lower setting when you don't know who is going to be driving your car. John Shelton (05) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ericn@truckee.corp.sgi.com (Eric Niedrauer) Subject: Re: '97 NCSA FM List Date: 12 Jun 1997 13:40:01 -0700 # Since April we're running about a 20% "NO SHOW" with field managers. # June 1997 # 1, Sunday......Friedrich # # 7, Saturday......Bill Green (Missed) I covered for Bill on the 7th, he is going to cover on July 20 for me. Did I forget to do something so you thought we had no field manager that day??? Eric Niedrauer -- Eric Niedrauer World Wide Field I/S ericn@corp.sgi.com 415-933-5504 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Addis" Subject: Re: '97 NCSA FM List Date: 12 Jun 1997 14:35:47 -0700 RE>> '97 NCSA FM List 6/12/97 My mistake Eric, I sincerely apologize to you and Bill Green......thanks for the info! Bob Addis PS We have an 85% success rate with Field Managers...keep up the good work you all! # Since April we're running about a 20% "NO SHOW" with field managers. # June 1997 # 1, Sunday......Friedrich # # 7, Saturday......Bill Green (Missed) I covered for Bill on the 7th, he is going to cover on July 20 for me. Did I forget to do something so you thought we had no field manager that day??? Eric Niedrauer -- Eric Niedrauer World Wide Field I/S ericn@corp.sgi.com 415-933-5504 ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.llnl.gov with ADMIN;12 Jun 1997 13:37:51 -0800 Received: from slist by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0wcGcl-0003xZ-00; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:37:39 -0600 Message-Id: <199706122040.NAA02094@truckee.corp.sgi.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"4U13UD.A.StD.O4Foz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/748 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Bcc: Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:37:39 -0600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Greenhill@Eng.Sun.COM (Dave Greenhill) Subject: Unavailable for field manager duty. Date: 12 Jun 1997 18:59:12 -0700 I am not available for field manager duty from May to Sept. Is anyone willing to stand in for me this Saturday. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PRUCHNICK@aol.com Subject: Going to Truckee this weekend Date: 13 Jun 1997 10:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Hi All Claire Sebald would like to know if someone could take some things up to Truckee airport this weekend. If you can call her at (415) 593-8880. I will be FM at Byron on sunday so I can not do it. K P ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Addis" Subject: '97 NCSA FM List Date: 13 Jun 1997 10:02:36 -0800 Regarding: '97 NCSA FM List Since April we're running about a 20% "NO SHOW" with field managers. Remember...this is a Club obligation like clean-up day. If you prefere to do something else rather than Field Manager petition the Board with your proposal... until then IT'S YOUR RESPONSABILITY to find a substitute if you can't make the alotted time.....please forward changes to Addis. I have been contacting individuals who have missed their time and rescheduling them. Feel free to phone them and ask them to substitute for you. Thanks ahead of time! NCSA Field Manager Assignments for 1997 April 1997 5, Saturday......Jona 6, Sunday......Snydr-Michael 12, Saturday......Tarle 13, Sunday......Thunen (Missed, assigned to 6/21) 19, Saturday......Waltz (Missed) 20, Sunday......Keleman 26, Saturday......App 27, Sunday......Addis May 1997 3, Saturday......Allender 4, Sunday......Alton 10, Saturday......Williams 11, Sunday......Apps 17, Saturday......Boyce 18, Sunday......Bill Green 24, Saturday......Gustaffson 25, Sunday......Deane (Missed) 31, Saturday......Ferguson June 1997 1, Sunday......Friedrich 7, Saturday......Niedrauer 8, Sunday......Mike Green 14, Saturday......Glassow (trainee) & Greenhill 15, Sunday......Pruchnick 21, Saturday...... Thunen (for 4/13) 22, Sunday......Horn 28, Saturday......Johnson 29, Sunday......W. Snow July 1997 5, Saturday......Weil 6, Sunday......Larder 12, Saturday......Michael 13, Sunday......Moeller 19, Saturday......Mooney(trainee) & Moore 20, Sunday......Bill Green 26, Saturday......Poco 27, Sunday......Powalka August 1997 2, Saturday......Grom 3, Sunday......Randazzo 9, Saturday......Rathbun 10, Sunday......Reuland 16, Saturday......Roberts 17, Sunday......Semans 23, Saturday......W. Snow 24, Sunday......Snydr-Michael 30, Saturday......Tarle 31, Sunday......Thunen September 1997 6, Saturday......Waltz 7, Sunday......Weil 13, Saturday......Williams 14, Sunday......Addis 20, Saturday......Allender 21, Sunday......Alton 27, Saturday......App 28, Sunday......Apps October 1997 4, Saturday......Boyce 5, Sunday......Brown 11, Saturday......Waltz (for 4/19) 12, Sunday......Deane 18, Saturday......Ferguson 19, Sunday......Friedrich 25, Saturday......Green, Bill 26, Sunday......Green, Mike November 1997 1, Saturday......Glassow 2, Sunday......Greenhill 8, Saturday......Grom 9, Sunday......Gustaffson 15, Saturday......Horn 16, Sunday......Johnson 22, Saturday......Jona 23, Sunday......Kelemen 29, Saturday......Larder 30, Sunday......Michael December 1997 6, Saturday......Moeller 7, Sunday......Mooney 13, Saturday......Moore 14, Sunday......Niedrauer 20, Saturday......Poco 21, Sunday......Powalka 27, Saturday......Pruchnick 28, Sunday......Randazzo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KCTK14A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT L SEMANS) Subject: Re: Unavailable for field manager duty. Date: 13 Jun 1997 18:40:26, -0500 From Bob Semans Dave, I'd like to swap with you. I need to have my next duty day covered; it's on Sunday, August 17th. I realize you can't cover that day but it should give you plenty of time to make another swap and it will be closer to the time when you can take the duty. I am in Minden now, but I'm leaving for Foster City soon and will check for your e-mail response when I get home tonight. ... Or leave a message for me at (415) 358-8898; Barbara is home. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Addis" Subject: Re: Unavailable for field m Date: 13 Jun 1997 18:15:07 -0700 RE>>Unavailable for field manager duty. 6/13/97 Bob, Please call Dave.....the last I heard Dave did not have a substitute and may well be in Truckee as we speak. Curt is instructing this weekend and needs help on the line. In addition, a new member, Andres Glassow, will be training with you so he can be put in the rotation in the future. Thanks for the help.....let me know how it all works out. Bob Addis From Bob Semans Dave, I'd like to swap with you. I need to have my next duty day covered; it's on Sunday, August 17th. I realize you can't cover that day but it should give you plenty of time to make another swap and it will be closer to the time when you can take the duty. I am in Minden now, but I'm leaving for Foster City soon and will check for your e-mail response when I get home tonight. ... Or leave a message for me at (415) 358-8898; Barbara is home. Bob ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.llnl.gov with ADMIN;13 Jun 1997 15:52:43 -0800 Received: from slist by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0wcfCv-0000kq-00; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:52:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199706132240.SAA70132@mime4.prodigy.com> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm02sc02 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Nma6oB.A.Bt.y8coz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/753 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Bcc: Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:52:37 -0600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Greenhill@Eng.Sun.COM (Dave Greenhill) Subject: Re: Unavailable for field m Date: 13 Jun 1997 18:53:17 -0700 Bob, Due to lousy weather in the Sierras I am not in Truckee. So I intend to go out to the field and get Andres up and running as field manager tomorrow. When is the next board meeting ? I still want to discuss this issue. I haven't changed my basic premise that field managing shouldn't get in the way of flying, particularly during the very brief Sierra season. Dave ----- Begin Included Message ----- From ncsoar-request@xmission.com Fri Jun 13 18:19 PDT 1997 X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"6MD9ND.A._MD.RHfoz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/754 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:20:17 -0600 Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1942 RE>>Unavailable for field manager duty. 6/13/97 Bob, Please call Dave.....the last I heard Dave did not have a substitute and may well be in Truckee as we speak. Curt is instructing this weekend and needs help on the line. In addition, a new member, Andres Glassow, will be training with you so he can be put in the rotation in the future. Thanks for the help.....let me know how it all works out. Bob Addis From Bob Semans Dave, I'd like to swap with you. I need to have my next duty day covered; it's on Sunday, August 17th. I realize you can't cover that day but it should give you plenty of time to make another swap and it will be closer to the time when you can take the duty. I am in Minden now, but I'm leaving for Foster City soon and will check for your e-mail response when I get home tonight. ... Or leave a message for me at (415) 358-8898; Barbara is home. Bob ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.llnl.gov with ADMIN;13 Jun 1997 15:52:43 -0800 Received: from slist by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0wcfCv-0000kq-00; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:52:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199706132240.SAA70132@mime4.prodigy.com> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm02sc02 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Nma6oB.A.Bt.y8coz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/753 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Bcc: Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:52:37 -0600 ----- End Included Message ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: andres glassow Subject: Re: Unavailable for field m Date: 14 Jun 1997 21:53:11 -0700 I would like to respond to Dave Greenhill,s email. Dave The list for field manager was posted in january. So you have had A long time to find some one to cover for you. It is also a club requirement. I do not find it to tough to do it 1 or 2 times a year. Andres ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tywhite@aol.com Subject: Transponder installation Date: 15 Jun 1997 14:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Well okay, enough is enough! Had another near miss over Air Sailing (easily inside 1/2 mile) with a Reno Air 727 last week. Time to install a transponder. I am soliciting information from anyone who has actually HAD a transponder and encoder installed in their SAILPLANE in the past few years. All I want to know is, can I install this myself and have it signed off by someone official, or should I have it installed professionally? I plan a separate battery for the transponder. Who in the Bay Area would someone recommend for the installation / signoff? Thanks much. Ty White tywhite@a.crl.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Unidentified subject! Date: 16 Jun 1997 08:57:10 -0800 Saturday was a great soaring day in Byron. I am not sure how the soaring was in the Sierras but those of us Saturday did not regret staying in the Bay area. A cloud street formed overhead from Diablo to Tracy. Lift was generally about 5 knots with a maximum of 10 knot lift. I released from tow in the 1-26 at 1300 ft. I was able to reach cloud base at 6200 ft. Despite the great weather, only the club 1-26, Blanik and Grob 103 flew. All I can say was..... you should have been there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Unidentified subject! Date: 16 Jun 1997 08:59:18 -0800 Lou Orlon at (415)873-1610 asked about the "Old" Blanik. It wont fly, or float but it will sink. He wants to build a "wet submarine" out of it. Do we give it away, sell it for a hundred dollars in scrap aluminum, etc. From a Blanik glider to a Blanik submarine. What do the other board members think? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: SGS 1-23G and Aircraft Titles Date: 16 Jun 1997 09:19:51 -0800 For those interested, the SGS 1-23 that has been sitting in a trailer at Byron has been unboxed. It is a 1958 G model with a published LD of 31. It is an all metal structure with no fabric. Apparently it has not been unboxed since 1988. Before that it flew only sporadically for 10 years. I wonder how many other old gliders are sitting collecting dust? Some more questions for my education. (1) What are "mass balanced ailerons" and what is "mass balancing for"? (2) Who handles aircraft titles and what does it take to add or subtract someone from ownership on the title? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David.Greenhill@Eng.Sun.COM (Dave Greenhill) Subject: Re: Transponder installation Date: 16 Jun 1997 10:06:19 -0700 Ty, I'm not an expert on FAR's however I think you can install it if you are experimental type certified. If you have a full type certification then I believe you need an AI to supervise & sign off the work. Once it's installed you have to get it calibrated. Cal Gyro at Livermore can do this. Phone 510-449-5904. You have to have it rechecked every two years. I installed one two years ago after a similar incident. I strongly recommend it for anyone flying within 50 miles of Reno. One serious incident would really screw it up for the whole soaring community, it probably wouldn't do the pilot much good either. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Addis" Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Date: 16 Jun 1997 09:53:27 -0700 RE>Unidentified subject! 6/15/97 Sounds like we should get serious about what we intend to do with the Blanik...... did we ever advertise it? If so, it appears we were not successfull, and a submarine may not be a bad idea for the cost of the aluminum plus a bit of a premium for the ready shape. Bob Addis Lou Orlon at (415)873-1610 asked about the "Old" Blanik. It wont fly, or float but it will sink. He wants to build a "wet submarine" out of it. Do we give it away, sell it for a hundred dollars in scrap aluminum, etc. From a Blanik glider to a Blanik submarine. What do the other board members think? ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.llnl.gov with ADMIN;16 Jun 1997 08:57:33 -0800 Received: from slist by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0wde9q-0001hy-00; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:57:30 -0600 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bFP1SD.A.mlB.jJWpz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/759 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Bcc: Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:57:30 -0600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tywhite@aol.com Subject: Re: Transponder installation Date: 16 Jun 1997 17:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Hi Dave: Thanks for the info. I am obviously concerned about my own skin, but I also feel a sense of responsibility for the poor souls sitting in the airliner with no parachutes. Ty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Glider Insurance Date: 16 Jun 1997 17:12:32 -0800 Costello gave me a rough estimate on a 1-23G insured at 9,000 dollars and a trailer at 2,000 dollars. The cost for Irv and me will be about 700 dollars. Does the price sound reasonable? I have seen advertisements for other carriers. Any advice on insurance carriers? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimAlt777@aol.com Subject: G103 Instructor Sat 6/21? Date: 17 Jun 1997 02:26:09 -0400 (EDT) When will the G103 be heading to Truckee? If I can get an instructor, I would like to get some instruction in the 103 this Saturday. Jim Alton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LAUMANN@aol.com Subject: Re: G103 Instructor Sat 6/21? Date: 17 Jun 1997 10:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Jim, I'll be out at Byron instructing this Saturday, if you want to get some time in the G103. Curt In a message dated 97-06-17 03:44:09 EDT, you write: << Subj: G103 Instructor Sat 6/21? Date: 97-06-17 03:44:09 EDT From: JimAlt777@aol.com Resent-from: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-to: ncsoar@xmission.com To: ncsoar@xmission.com When will the G103 be heading to Truckee? If I can get an instructor, I would like to get some instruction in the 103 this Saturday. Jim Alton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimAlt777@aol.com Subject: 1-26 trailer - to: John Randazzo Date: 17 Jun 1997 11:10:10 -0400 (EDT) John, The license plates on the 1-26 trailer show the registration is out of date. Do we have new stickers for it? Jim Alton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TJAA@aol.com Subject: Re: Glider Insurance Date: 17 Jun 1997 15:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Willi: I found Costello/SSA to be the most reasonable. Your premium for two pilots & the stated amount seems fine. Later years you also get some discount. (If you had no claims) Have fun! Tom Jona ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martym@lan.nsc.com (Martin S Michael) Subject: Blanik 209 Date: 17 Jun 1997 18:58:28 PDT Willie, We should probably get at least what it is worth as scrap aluminum, which is more likely $500+ and we should probably have one more round of removing useful spare parts before he hauls it away. Does he want the wings too? Other Opinions? Regards, Marty > From ncsoar-request@xmission.com Mon Jun 16 09:00:22 1997 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:59:18 -0800 > To: ncsoar@xmission.com > From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." > Resent-Message-Id: <"bFP1SD.A.mlB.jJWpz"@mail> > Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com > Subject: Unidentified subject! > Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/759 > X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com > Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com > Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 09:57:24 -0600 > Content-Length: 310 > > Lou Orlon at (415)873-1610 asked about the "Old" Blanik. It wont fly, or > float but it will sink. He wants to build a "wet submarine" out of it. Do > we give it away, sell it for a hundred dollars in scrap aluminum, etc. > >From a Blanik glider to a Blanik submarine. What do the other board > members think? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pennyrich@aol.com Subject: Re: G103 Instructor Sat 6/21? - reply Date: 17 Jun 1997 22:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Jim Are you talking about instuction in the 103 at Byron or at Truckee? I will be at Truckee this weekend, but I'm not sure where the 103 will be? Does anyone have any intentions of taking the ship to the mountains? Is it boxed up? If no one else wants to do so, I will take it up to Truckee when it is boxed (although it means coming from Sacramento back to Byron, then up to the Sierra's - seems more logical for some one coming through Livermore to pick it up). Should we save the wear and tear of boxing it and aero tow it to Truckee - much more fun but more expensive. Richard P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pennyrich@aol.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! - reply Date: 17 Jun 1997 22:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Willie With our club's track record, we should probably save the carcass for replacement parts. Richard P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pennyrich@aol.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! - reply Date: 17 Jun 1997 22:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Great flight, Willie Richard P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martym@lan.nsc.com (Martin S Michael) Subject: Re: 1-26 trailer - to: John Randazzo Date: 17 Jun 1997 19:09:14 PDT Jim, John Randazzo is does NOT have email. Please call him directly. Regards, Marty > From ncsoar-request@xmission.com Tue Jun 17 08:11:43 1997 > Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:10:10 -0400 (EDT) > From: JimAlt777@aol.com > To: ncsoar@xmission.com > Subject: 1-26 trailer - to: John Randazzo > Resent-Message-Id: <"4sSr6.A.BEG.akqpz"@mail> > Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com > Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/767 > X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com > Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com > Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:11:23 -0600 > Content-Length: 129 > > John, > > The license plates on the 1-26 trailer show the registration is out of date. > Do we have new stickers for it? > > Jim Alton > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimAlt777@aol.com Subject: Re: G103 is it still in Byron? Date: 18 Jun 1997 11:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Rich, Unless someone took the 103 apart this weekend, my guess is it's still in Byron. I can help put it on the trailer, but I can't tow anything that heavy. I won't be at Byron this Sunday due to a family commitment, but if we can take it apart Sat afternoon I'll help. IS THE 103 STILL IN BYRON? What needs to be done before we send it to Truckee? Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark A. Matthews" Subject: To the person who tried to subscribe ncsoar to ssa-digest. Date: 18 Jun 1997 13:08:55 -0700 DON'T! Subscribing mailing lists to other mailing lists is a Very Bad Thing. It causes a huge amount of spurious messages to be distributed, and is an effective method of creating mail loops and giving list administrators headaches. I'm sure if the other recipients of ncsoar are interested in being on the SSA mailing list they will join it themselves. And conversely, I seriously doubt that the recipients of the SSA list are interested in the internal communications of the NCSA. (Which is the result of attempting to join list-to-list.) This is your friendly warning. -- -Mark (ncsoar mailing list PooBah) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimAlt777@aol.com Subject: Re: SGS 1-23G and Aircraft Titles Date: 18 Jun 1997 11:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Willie, I am not an aeronautical engineer, but my understanding of mass balancing is: Mass balanced control surfaces have the same mass in front of and behind the hinge line. (actually mass x distance from the center of rotation. Just like you statically balance a tire.) I believe the main motivation for doing this is it increases the airspeed at which the surfaces will flutter. Any AE's out there have a more technical explaination or correction? Jim Alton PS. congradulations on the plane, it's a beauty. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kinzelman_paul Subject: Mass balancing Date: 19 Jun 1997 10:18:10 PDT For those folks interested in more info about the recent mass balancing question... I began conversing with Steve Smith as a result of his recent "winglets" article in the PASCO mailing (indicating that he knows lots more about aerodynamics than I ever will). I then asked him about mass balancing, and with his permission, here's his answer: -Paul Kinzelman [From scsmith@mail.arc.nasa.gov Wed Jun 18 18:33:12 1997] So, anyway, mass-balancing. Well, the whole area of structural dynamics involves the coupling of aerodynamics and structures. What happens is that the aerodynamic loads on a wing (or control surface,or whatever) make it distort or change shape in such a way that the new shape gets different aerodynamic loads. If the new loads cause further structural distortion, then you get a cylce here that can cause problems like flutter and/or divergence. So lets say you have a wing with an aileron, and the aileron is heavy toward its trailing edge so it doesn't balance about its own hinge line. Now you are flying along and you hit a gust that causes an increase in angle of attack, so the added lift accelerates the airplane upward. The inertial effect of the upward acceleration causes the aileron to deflect trailing edge down. At this point, look at whats happening within the structure. The wing is bent somewhat by the added lift, and it is twisted somewhat by the added lift on the aileron. Normally, the effect of the added lift overpowers the effect of the added twist, so that the wing bend from the gust is exaggerated by the wing bend from the aileron lift. Now, two problems can arise, divergence and flutter. For divergence to occur, the twist would have to increase the lift enough to bend the wing more to increase the twist more, in a divergent trend. Here, its jsut a matter of the forces overpowering the stiffness. The mass properties of the wing are not very important, but the mass properties of the aileron might be, if that is what drives the divergence. An easy way to imagine divergence is to think about a forward-swept wing. As it bends, the effective angle of attack of the tip portion of the wing increases, because of the apparent twist due to bending. Forward swept wings diverge pretty easy. Aft-swept wings never diverge, because the apparent twist due to bending reduces the angle of attack and the lift goes down. Flutter is more complcated. The wing has natural vibration frequencies in bending and torsion, and the loads imposed by the gust will excite these natural vibrations. The frequency of the vibration depends on the mass and the spring constant. Spring constant is the force per unit displacement. Normally there is also lots of damping from the way the structure is built, from the friction in the control linkage to the aileron, and from the air. The flow over the wing tends to resist being displaced because it has inertia too, and this effect varies with velocity, so it looks like a damper (force depends on velocity, as opposed to a spring, where force depends on displacement) Anyway, as the speed goes up, the ability to produce aerodynamic force goes up (by the square of the speed, actually), but the damping increases only in proportion to the velocity. So if you go fast enough, the aerodynamic forces can overpower the damping. Now what can be bad is if the torsion frequency and bending frequency are close enough together that the twist and bend can get in phase with each other. This is flutter. The twist makes more lift which starts to amplify the bending vibration, as long as its in phase. The mass behind the spar tends to overshoot, making the twist reverse, forces the wing to bend down, then overshoots at the limit of the downward bend, reversing the twist, increasing the lift so the wing bends up. The added force keeps feeding energy into the system. So, you see, the factors that are important here are 1) the bending stiffness, 2) the torsional stiffness, and 3) the location of the mass, and 4) the damping. the presence of the unbalanced aileron just makes it easier to get the whole system fluttering, because it looks like a very low-stiffness wing - that is, it doesnt take much bend to make it twist, if what the twist is really is just the aileron deflecting. Now, normally, there is a canceling effect because the left and right ailerons are connected and forced to move in opposite directions. The bend is obviously symmetrical motion, so the aileron won't on its own make the flutter worse, except for the play in the system from hinge slop, etc. that can allow both ailerons to displace up or down a little bit symmetrically. But you can see that the whole question of what the aileron does to the dynamics of the system becomes much less important if the surface is balanced at its hinge line. IN that case, if you accelerate the wing upward, the aileron is accelerated about its own c.g. by the hing forces, so it doesn't deflect up or down, it just moves with the wing. You can even get some load relief by "over-balancing" the aileron, making it heavier ahead of the hinges, but be careful, this flutter stuff can get complicated and subtle so the intuitive model can mislead you. Without being an expert on the subject, I would guess that it is possible for the overbalanced aileron to cause flutter too. One bad thing about adding balance weight to the aileron is that it adds weight to the wing far back, which moves the c.g. of the wing behind the elastic axis (the effective line of all the bending stiffness of the wing-usually near the spar) This aft c.g. is what drives the flutter in the first place, so overbalancing might make wing flutter worse even though it stabilized the aileron. Here's a good analogy for you: most people think a good way to stabilize a trailer is to increase the tongue weight, but the added weight on the back of the car can make the car unstable. Its better to have moderate tongue weight and extend the tongue longer as a better way to make a spooky trailer more stable. I wrote a westwind article about this about 10 years ago. Anyway, its good to have the aileron balance on its hinge line. Similar dynamics can occur from the elevator and rudder, so high-speed airplanes always have mass-balanced controls unless they are driven by powered actuators so they cant move by forcing back through the control system. This is called "non-reversible controls". it just means that the control surfaces don't participate in the dynamics because they must move along with the wing. the hydraulic actuator is powerful enough to hold the surface with respect to the wing, regardless of where its mass is. I hope this isn't 10 times more than you wanted. But I'm happy to answer questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tywhite@aol.com Subject: Crew for Sports Nationals Date: 19 Jun 1997 14:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Hi all: I am looking for crew for Sunday, July 13 thru Wednesday, July 16 for the Sports Nationals in Minden. I am covered for the rest of the contest. Of those 4 days, the 15 and 16 are the most critical, so even a couple of days would be a help. Your own private accomodations will be provided in a local motel, so you could even bring a friend/partner/spouse. This is a fun way to find out what big contests are like. Because it is Sports Class, landouts are rare, but I make no promises. Contact me directly with questions. Ty White 408-523-7277 tywhite@a.crl.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimAlt777@aol.com Subject: 1-26 wing root gap seals Date: 22 Jun 1997 01:39:13 -0400 (EDT) One of the items on my "To Do" list for the club's 1-26 was to glue the wing root seal back on one of the wings. After giving this further thought, I think we ought to wait until after we get the 1-26 repainted before gluing the seal on. Anyone disagree? Jim Alton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike-i green Subject: Blanik Date: 22 Jun 1997 22:05:28 -0700 Hi Guys Fran thinks that we can get more than $100 by parting out the blanik. mighty gorilla showed him Wily's note and that is his response. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike-i green Subject: SGS 1-23 Date: 22 Jun 1997 22:09:52 -0700 What do you mean by unboxing the 1-23? It belongs to Andre Volante! Fran said that Andre is up-to-date on his payments. If you need to get in touch with him and John Randazzo doesn't have his phone number, I do. |---------------------------------------------------------------| | Dr. Mike I. Green, Guest Scientist | | Magnetic Measurements Engineering | | MS 25-123 Consulting Physicist | | Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory 117 Rheem Boulevard | | 1 Cyclotron Road Orinda, CA 94563-3620 | | Berkeley, CA 94720 USA | | USA Phone: 1 510 254-0609 | | FAX: 1 510 253-8268 | | Office bldg 25 room 120 | | phone: 1 510 486-4607 | | FAX: 1 510 486-5582 | | email: mighty@lbl.gov | | | | ASW-20FL MG mighty gorilla | | PW-5 | |---------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LAUMANN@aol.com Subject: directions to NCSA Date: 24 Jun 1997 00:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Here are an accurate set of directions to the NCSA for us to use. Willy, can you post these on our web site? Directions to NCSA from Livermore CA odometer.....landmark 0.0..............Interstate 580 and Vasco Road go north onto Vasco Road 2.6..............BFI Waste Systems (on the right) continue north 14.5............Vasco Road and Camino Diablo turn right onto Camino Diablo 16.1.............Camino Diablo and Byron Highway 20 yards beyond railroad tracks turn right onto Byron Highway 17.6.............Byron Highway and Byron Hot Springs Road turn right onto Byron Hot Springs Road 18.4.............Byron Hot Springs Road and Armstrong Road turn right (note "Byron Airport" sign) 18.9.............turn left into airport, continue past Bay Area Skydiving 19.9.............park ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Re: SGS 1-23 Date: 24 Jun 1997 08:24:43 -0800 Do not panic. He and I unboxed it together and I helped him clean it. Andre and I are looking at becoming partners or I may but it with Irv. I have had extensive concersations with Andre. It has not been flown for since 1988. I have offered to but it but the partnership may in fact be the way we go. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martym@lan.nsc.com (Martin S Michael) Subject: Signage Date: 24 Jun 1997 13:18:28 PDT Fellow Flyers, With the fence around the airport and the requirement soon for pass codes or cards. I'm going to have a series of small signs made (2 ft. x 1.5 ft.) to direct people from Armstrong road to our glider club. On the last sign to be mounted onthe fence near the clubhouse I want to add a brief motto or saying that epitomizes the longevity of the club and and the spirit of its activities. So put on your marketing hats and give me some suggestions. Try to make them 7-9 words or less. Right now I'm thinking of things like: "50 years of motorless flight" "50 years of soaring together" "50 years of soaring comraderie" Obviously, I'm a little stuck on this 50 year thing. The last sign will be: Northern ^ California | Soaring | Association | "motto" phone number web address Regards, Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bruce roberts Subject: Re: Signage Date: 24 Jun 1997 13:43:00 -0700 Marty, the sign shop is on the corner of Lawrence & either Homestead or Pruneridge. If going south from NSC, you make a right on the street and go about 200 ft and it on the right. On the way home tonite Ive see which street it is. I dont remember the name. At 01:18 PM 6/24/97 PDT, you wrote: >Fellow Flyers, > >With the fence around the airport and the requirement soon for pass codes or cards. I'm going to have a series of small signs made (2 ft. x 1.5 ft.) to direct >people from Armstrong road to our glider club. On the last sign to be mounted onthe fence near the clubhouse I want to add a brief motto or saying that >epitomizes the longevity of the club and and the spirit of its activities. > >So put on your marketing hats and give me some suggestions. Try to make them >7-9 words or less. > >Right now I'm thinking of things like: > >"50 years of motorless flight" >"50 years of soaring together" >"50 years of soaring comraderie" > >Obviously, I'm a little stuck on this 50 year thing. > >The last sign will be: > >Northern ^ >California | >Soaring | >Association | > >"motto" > >phone number >web address > > >Regards, > >Marty > > > > Bruce Roberts PC Systems Division/CGS Product Eng Santa Clara/A2895/Post C9 Phone 408-721-6941/Fax 408-721-1868 brucer@rockie or bruce.c.roberts@nsc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark A. Matthews" Subject: Re: Signage Date: 24 Jun 1997 13:47:54 -0700 > > Northern ^ > California | > Soaring | > Association | > > "motto" > > phone number > web address I think you need the phrase "Inter-Galactic Headquarters" in there somewhere. -- -Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bruce roberts Subject: Sign Store Date: 25 Jun 1997 08:11:52 -0700 Marty, the place I went to late last year for the NCSA sign was; Sign-A-Rama 1179 East Homestead (NW corner of Lawrence and Homestead) 408 243 7388 M-F 8:30-5:30PM Bruce Roberts PC Systems Division/CGS Product Eng Santa Clara/A2895/Post C9 Phone 408-721-6941/Fax 408-721-1868 brucer@rockie or bruce.c.roberts@nsc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimAlt777@aol.com Subject: Mail Delay Date: 25 Jun 1997 11:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Just a test to see how long it takes for mail to get to the reflector. My message about mass balanced ailerons took 4 days to get there. Jim Alton 6/25/97 8:00 am ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Oxygen tank for Grob 103, fittings for Blanik and other Date: 25 Jun 1997 08:41:22 -0800 1. Where is the oxygen bottle for the Grob 103? Is it out for testing? If we are going to get the Grob 103 to Truckee the time to do it is this weekend. Richard would have to drive from Sacramento but he would do it. 2. For my edification: what is the procedure for testing the oxygen bottles, how often does it have to be done, where is it done in the bay area and what is the cost., (this will be part of my new article: "Everything you did not want to know about glider owenership but were forced to find out about"). 3. The Blanik at Truckee has some plumbing problems. The front is a female connector that requires a male connector on the nasal cannula hose. The nelson flow meter is part of the nasal cannula unit. The front unit holds air but leaks when the cannula is plugged in. I am going to assume it is on the male end. The back seat has only a copper tupe with no fitting. 4. I suggest that we standardize all the club ship with the same oxygen fittings to save problems in the future. If you all agree, is this the best fitting to use? 5. If we go this route, is there a place in the Bay Area that I can buy the oxygen fittings? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Sign Store Date: 25 Jun 1997 08:53:31 -0800 If wood signs would work, I can make up anything for free on my router. I can make them various sizes. I am not looking for work, but I will do it to save the club money. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: svmes@halley.ca.essd.northgrum.com (Mike Schneider) Subject: oxygen & plumbing Date: 25 Jun 1997 09:18:52 -0700 NCSAers: Willy Snow brought up some valid questions on O2 and plumbing. I purchased nasal cannulas and plumbing for Blanik AS which will be installed this weekend. The type of connector will be different than any of our other aircraft because most of the other club ships use a military style bayonette fitting which isn't available with a check valve anymore. Eventually, we should convert everything else to a standard, more modern fitting, but I suggest we don't do that this summer. The $200 worth of O2 hardware I just bought was from Nelson Aircraft in Oregon (Ted Nelson used to own Hummingbird Haven). Nelson has the best selection of O2 hardware that I've found. Local sources for O2 hardware are A.I.R. in Oakland (415-569-6484). For non-O2-specific plumbing hardware (compression fittings, etc.) I suggest Sunnyvale valve & fitting (just off 101) or Bay Pneumatic in Redwood City. Many O2 systems use 3/16 copper tubing, which isn't that common. Hence, the need to go to a plumbing specialty house. The hardware I bought includes 2 new flow meters & cannulas for the G-103. Once the O2 bottle is installed, to the best of my knowledge, that should be it for the G-103 O2 system. O2 bottle inspection is required once every 5 years for the steel bottles we use. The steel bottles have an infinite life. Aluminum bottles are different, as are composite bottles. The O2 bottle is tested by removing the valve, visually inspecting the inside for rust with a light and mirror (light rust can be removed by tumbling the bottle somehow). Once the visual inspection is passed, the bottle is filled with water, placed in a tub of water, and pressurized to 150 percent of it's rated pressure. I'm told that it isn't very exciting when one fails, since water is almost incompressible. After that the bottle is dried and the valve reinstalled. The year and month of inspection is stamped on the bottle. Fire extinguisher service companies will perform this inspection for about $20 or so. A.I.R. sends bottles out to have the inspections done, but will refill the bottle afterwards. When refilling, the air is purged to remove moisture by filling the bottle to 100 psi or so and then opening the valve to ambient until air is just barely flowing out. Contrary to what Carl Herold says in his briefings, A.I.R. does not evacuate the bottles to remove moisture. Total cost from A.I.R. is maybe $40-50 for an inspection and refill. The bottle for the G-103 is a 38 cubic foot size, which has a diameter of 8 inches or so. There are numerous bottles on the bottom shelf of the parachute rack. One belongs to the G-103. Careful though, I believe another 38 cubic footer belongs to Ken Pruchnik. Installation should take about ten minutes. I believe the bottle was removed for the winter just to reduce weight. Does anyone know differently? Did I answer all your questions Willy? Later...Mike Schneider ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Addis" Subject: Include name on postings... Date: 25 Jun 1997 09:29:35 -0800 Regarding: Include name on postings.... I think Mark Mathews posted a message a year or so ago reminding us to include your name at the end of your postings..... it's nice to know the author without fishing through the e-mail trailer and deciphering an AOL or ohter code name! Thanks, Bob Addis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Annual on SGS 1-23 Date: 25 Jun 1997 10:01:58 -0800 Does anyone have an alternative to Bob Hancock for annuals. Andre Volante and I were hoping to have it inspected this weekend or in an evening next week. As I am interested in a partnership or purchasing I am wanting someone who does a thorough job on the major structural components. So, a discount annual is not what I am looking for. (I apologize for all the questions... all those responding will receive mention in my upcoming best selling "Guide to Glider Ownership: How to Lose Money,Time, Friends and Family Through Aeronautically Obsessions "). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steven Philipson Subject: Re: Annual on SGS 1-23 Date: 25 Jun 1997 15:44:00 -0700 (PDT) >Does anyone have an alternative to Bob Hancock for annuals. [...] >As I am interested in a partnership or purchasing I am wanting >someone who does a thorough job on the major structural components. So, a >discount annual is not what I am looking for. [...] I suggest that you tell Bob what you want and let him have at it. Bob happily works with customers who want to do some of the work and save money, but he's also happy to do all the work and get paid for it. Bob did the pre-purchase inspection on my Arrow and was quite thorough. He also maintained my airplane for several years. His work was first rate, which is what I care about most. That he also charges reasonable fees is a bonus. BTW, as an IA, Bob does "a thorough job on the major structural components" even when doing a "discount annual." Everything gets inspected -- it's just up to you to open up all the inspection plates, remove covers, fairings, and interior, and do the work for which you feel capable. He inspects your work, too, and will reject it if it's not done correctly. Steve Philipson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Annual on SGS 1-23 Date: 25 Jun 1997 17:33:39 -0800 Let me clarify. The reason I asked for alternatives to Bob Hancock has been his limited availiability. He also flies for the airline is gone for long blocks of time. I would like someone who can come on weekends or evenings so Andre Volante and I can go through the aircraft together. Willy Snow ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William H. Snow, Ph.D." Subject: Re:Blanik Submarine Date: 25 Jun 1997 17:37:45 -0800 There seems to be some thought that we could get more money parting out the Blanik. Unless the majority of the board members say sell I will postpone the Blanik's watery fate. I think they wanted to use it to raise the Titanic. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martym@lan.nsc.com (Martin S Michael) Subject: Re:Blanik Submarine Date: 25 Jun 1997 18:03:03 PDT NCSAers, Regarding the selling of 209: Does anyone know the current price for scrap aluminum? I think if we use that number +$200 we would have a fair price for selling the Blanik 209. Provided the buyer is willing to haul it. I also propose that we remove any useful parts we may want for the other Blaniks before we sell it, since this buyer seems to only need the fuselage. We'd probably get more money by selling Blanik parts, but I don't expect anyone in the club is seriously motivated enough to drive this (let me know soon if someone wants to do it). Board Members: can we get a majority vote on selling the Blanik as proposed in the first paragraph via this reflector? I think we should sell it. Regards, Marty ----- Begin Included Message ----- From ncsoar-request@xmission.com Wed Jun 25 17:36:06 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-Id: <"4gdkQB.A.zMC.nlbsz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/796 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:35:51 -0600 Content-Length: 233 There seems to be some thought that we could get more money parting out the Blanik. Unless the majority of the board members say sell I will postpone the Blanik's watery fate. I think they wanted to use it to raise the Titanic. ----- End Included Message ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Addis" Subject: Re: Blanik Submarine Date: 25 Jun 1997 18:20:01 -0700 RE>>Blanik Submarine 6/25/97 Marty, I agree.....if we sell it, it should be for the value in scrap aluminum plus a nominal fee (for the ready shape, craftsmanship, etc.) of $200+ as start. Bob Addis NCSAers, Regarding the selling of 209: Does anyone know the current price for scrap aluminum? I think if we use that number +$200 we would have a fair price for selling the Blanik 209. Provided the buyer is willing to haul it. I also propose that we remove any useful parts we may want for the other Blaniks before we sell it, since this buyer seems to only need the fuselage. We'd probably get more money by selling Blanik parts, but I don't expect anyone in the club is seriously motivated enough to drive this (let me know soon if someone wants to do it). Board Members: can we get a majority vote on selling the Blanik as proposed in the first paragraph via this reflector? I think we should sell it. Regards, Marty ----- Begin Included Message ----- From ncsoar-request@xmission.com Wed Jun 25 17:36:06 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-Id: <"4gdkQB.A.zMC.nlbsz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/796 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:35:51 -0600 Content-Length: 233 There seems to be some thought that we could get more money parting out the Blanik. Unless the majority of the board members say sell I will postpone the Blanik's watery fate. I think they wanted to use it to raise the Titanic. ----- End Included Message ----- ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.llnl.gov with ADMIN;25 Jun 1997 18:03:46 -0800 Received: from slist by mail.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.62 #3) id 0wh2yO-00041i-00; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:03:44 -0600 Message-Id: <9706260103.AA05004@lan.nsc.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"3iGQuD.A.XxD.o_bsz"@mail> Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/797 X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com Resent-Bcc: Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:03:44 -0600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: andres glassow Subject: Grob 103 Date: 26 Jun 1997 21:09:23 -0700 Curt and I would like to reserve the Grob 103 for the Fallon Trophy Dash August 16-17 I hope it will be possible. Thanks Andres. lglassow@pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martym@lan.nsc.com (Martin S Michael) Subject: Re: Grob 103 Date: 27 Jun 1997 09:51:17 PDT Andres, Sounds like a worthy cause, just have Curt bring it up at the next board meeting. Regards, Marty > From ncsoar-request@xmission.com Thu Jun 26 21:23:11 1997 > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:09:23 -0700 > From: andres glassow > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; I) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: ncsoar@xmission.com > Subject: Grob 103 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Resent-Message-Id: <"9NsVyC.A.4yE.dA0sz"@mail> > Resent-From: ncsoar@xmission.com > Reply-To: ncsoar@xmission.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/800 > X-Loop: ncsoar@xmission.com > Resent-Sender: ncsoar-request@xmission.com > Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:22:54 -0600 > Content-Length: 164 > > Curt and I would like to reserve the Grob 103 for the Fallon Trophy Dash August 16-17 > I hope it will be possible. > Thanks Andres. > lglassow@pacbell.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martym@lan.nsc.com (Martin S Michael) Subject: Byron Gate Code Date: 27 Jun 1997 11:53:42 PDT NCSAers, Soon the Byron Airport will require people to use the locked "people gate" or the "vehicle gate". This was to occur starting some time in July. We have the passcode for the "people gate" and I've sent an individual email to the board members telling them what it is. If you don't know the number contact either myself or any board member and they will give it to you. The club will keep several passcards in the trailer for the "vehicle gate" and individuals can also buy these cards from CCC (I believe they're about $30 per card). We do not have the vehicle passcards yet, but will get them soon. Regards, Marty ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pennyrich@aol.com Subject: Re: Blanik Submarine - reply Date: 27 Jun 1997 21:42:16 -0400 (EDT) My feeling is that unless we can get a really, really, really excellent price, we should hold it for our own potential needs - remember, we now have two Blaniks, and our club has a history of needing replacement parts. I guarantee you that getting replacement skins for one of the Blaniks if, as, and when we need them will be a very time consuming experience. The above assumes, of course, that 209's skin parts are interchangeable with AS and EV and that there is sufficient skin available to make the saving of the carcuss worthwhile. Someone else (Steve Brown?) will have to make that determination. I just remember the agony I went through several years ago to get just a simple aileron pushrod. The ship was down for months. Richard P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cpedsc@rockie.nsc.com (Peter Deane) Subject: We all live in a Blanik Submarine, a Blanik Submarine etc.. Date: 30 Jun 1997 09:28:12 PDT Beautiful people; My non-board member opinion (and I know you're all waiting to hear it) is aligned with Richard P. We should keep it for spare parts. Just my two cents worth. Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kaitschuck Subject: G103...Byron or Truckee.. Date: 30 Jun 1997 09:34:48 -0700 Question... will the G103 be available over the next 2 weekends at Byron ? I was out at Byron with Bruce Roberts last Friday and noticed it has not yet moved to Truckee. I am thinking about giving some friends rides, but would hate to drag folks out to Byron to find the G103 has moved to Truckee. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cpedsc@rockie.nsc.com (Peter Deane) Subject: Re G103 location for July 4th weekend. Date: 30 Jun 1997 09:59:35 PDT Beautiful People, Do we have a definitive plan for the 103? I'm hoping that it will be at Truckee for July 4th; If not, please let me know as I'll have to book the Truckee Grob soon. Thanks Peter Deane ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TJAA@aol.com Subject: Re: We all live in a Blanik Submarine, a Blanik Submarine etc.. Date: 30 Jun 1997 13:57:36 -0400 (EDT) I concur fully! T. Jona