From: owner-ngamers-digest@lists.xmission.com (ngamers-digest) To: ngamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: ngamers-digest V1 #97 Reply-To: ngamers Sender: owner-ngamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-ngamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk ngamers-digest Monday, April 21 2003 Volume 01 : Number 097 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:39:40 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Donkey Kong GC - --part1_ac.3e449385.2bd55cac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/04/2003 9:40:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, satoshi_gc@hotmail.com writes: > The DK hero coins weren't as big a deal (your hero > status is judged against Mario and Yoshi), but finding them was enjoyable. > -Satoshi Which game are you judged against Mario and Yoshi? DKC or DKC2? - -Jed - --part1_ac.3e449385.2bd55cac_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 21/04/2003 9:40:04 AM Eastern Stand= ard Time, satoshi_gc@hotmail.com writes:


The DK hero coins weren't as bi= g a deal (your hero
status is judged against Mario and Yoshi), but finding them was enjoyable. - -Satoshi



Which game are you judged against Mario and Yoshi? DKC or DKC2?

- -Jed - --part1_ac.3e449385.2bd55cac_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:58:05 -0400 From: Jwelker1@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D In a message dated 4/20/2003 5:06:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, lloyd@Glue.umd.edu writes: > > > > All 3D games are really 4D. The 4th dimension is time. > > > Just catching a ball thrown at you requires complex calculations of all 4 > dimensions at once! God has made a truly complex mind. Oh know. It's Jed all over again. Jeremy [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:04:47 -0400 From: Jwelker1@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D In a message dated 4/20/2003 6:47:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, thraxen@ipa.net writes: > All 3D games are really 4D. The 4th dimension is time.>>> > > That's always been my view as well. It takes time to move point A to point B in any game. Or when you have to TIME your jump onto a moving platform. Or when you fire ahead of a moving target in any type of shooter so that your fire and the target arrive at the same point at the same TIME. Just a couple of examples of the usage of time in games. > > But the term 4D when talking about games has come to mean that some sort of manipulation of time beyond the normal is > involved...but all games definitely do involve time. > > Stryder But when you look at some 3D object in the real world, and even if it is mobile, you don't say that it is 4D because of that. As you said, a manipulation of time probably is more like 4D, although I don't even know if that sits well with me either. Jeremy [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:10:34 -0400 From: Jwelker1@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D In a message dated 4/21/2003 12:21:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, DarkBastion writes: > In a message dated 4/20/2003 7:48:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thraxen@ipa.net writes: > > > All 3D games are really 4D. The 4th dimension is time.>>> > > That's always been my view as well. It takes time to move point A to point B in any game. Or when you have to TIME your jump onto a moving platform. Or when you fire ahead of a moving target in any type of shooter so that your fire and the target arrive at the same point at the same TIME. Just a couple of examples of the usage of time in games. > > But the term 4D when talking about games has come to mean that some sort of manipulation of time beyond the normal is involved...but all games definitely do involve time. > > Stryder > > > > Yeah, but I think that that's getting needlessly technical. By that logic, 3D games (by definition, games that take place in 3 dimensions, not necessarily the third dimension) have been around since Pong. I agree, though, that for a game to be truly 4D, time has to be applied to it in some way so that it actually affects gameplay outside the simple timing of events. Games like Animal Crossing, where time of day and year change what happens in the game, or the proposed "time-sensitive" events that were to be used in Earthbound 3, are > deserving of the moniker "4D." > > ~Matt But then you would have to say that people and things are 4D, IMO, if things change because of their/its actions. Who ever declared time as being the fourthe dimension anyway? Jeremy [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:25:00 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D - --part1_146.fa5e25f.2bd5674c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/04/2003 10:58:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jwelker1@aol.com writes: > > All 3D games are really 4D. The 4th dimension is time. > > > > > > Just catching a ball thrown at you requires complex calculations of all 4 > > dimensions at once! God has made a truly complex mind. > > Oh know. It's Jed all over again. > > Jeremy It took a while to find the messages...but it was worth it http://www.escribe.com/games/n64/m10447.html - -Jed - --part1_146.fa5e25f.2bd5674c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 21/04/2003 10:58:45 AM Eastern Stan= dard Time, Jwelker1@aol.com writes:


> All 3D games are really 4D= .  The 4th dimension is time.
>
>
> Just catching a ball thrown at you requires complex calculations of all= 4
> dimensions at once!  God has made a truly complex mind.

Oh know.  It's Jed all over again.

Jeremy



It took a while to find the messages...but it was worth it

http://www.escribe.com/games/n64/m10447.html

- -Jed - --part1_146.fa5e25f.2bd5674c_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:03:47 -0600 From: Don Subject: RE: [NG] 4D Sigh, time to bring out the Engineering knowledge. Well you see we would say that the OBJECT itself is 3D but it exists in a 4th dimension; the dimension of time regardless as to whether the item is in motion or not. In any event, games like Majoras mask are still just 4D even though you can travel through time and arrive in the same universe and not a parallel one (which also is impossible in my opinion). The reason why it is still just 4D as the other games is because you are only manipulating time, you are not bringing in a new dimension. Like in Majoras mask you could go up to a sign and cut it in half with your sword... the sign, being a 3 Dimensional object in a 4 Dimensional Universe would break in 3 pieces... but in the end we still call it a 3D object right? So if we alter time it is still there, who cares if it is in a different order, everything is still 4D. Something off topic here that you may think is interesting is the fact that Dimesions are always perfectly perpendicular to each other. In a vector representation you could draw an 'x' and 'y' axis on a piece of paper at 90 degrees to each other and then the third dimension would obviously be some variable 'z' coming out of the page (or into depending on your 'x' 'y' orientation) which would be 90 degrees to the other two axis'. So even though we can't DRAW it, time would also be perpendicular to these three axis' and it boggles the mind to think about how this would be accomplished in writing (it can't). - -----Original Message----- From: owner-NGamers@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-NGamers@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jwelker1@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 9:05 AM To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D In a message dated 4/20/2003 6:47:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, thraxen@ipa.net writes: > All 3D games are really 4D. The 4th dimension is time.>>> > > That's always been my view as well. It takes time to move point A to point B in any game. Or when you have to TIME your jump onto a moving platform. Or when you fire ahead of a moving target in any type of shooter so that your fire and the target arrive at the same point at the same TIME. Just a couple of examples of the usage of time in games. > > But the term 4D when talking about games has come to mean that some sort of manipulation of time beyond the normal is > involved...but all games definitely do involve time. > > Stryder But when you look at some 3D object in the real world, and even if it is mobile, you don't say that it is 4D because of that. As you said, a manipulation of time probably is more like 4D, although I don't even know if that sits well with me either. Jeremy [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:37:56 EDT From: DarkBastion@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Mario kart news and rumors - --part1_4a.1b95b31c.2bd5a294_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/21/2003 10:23:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jwelker1@aol.com writes: > I don't think screen peeking is a big deal. I've just never really cared > that much. It works to the benefit of all people (if all are doing so), so > it doesn't matter to me. I don't/can't play such multiplayer games online > either. I don't know, maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but I've > never thought it was that big of deal. > > Jeremy A room full of 4 really talented players can make for some really annoying screen peek. One kill away from victory, you toss a nice grenade that forces someone out of cover, and they magically kill you with a rocket. How? Simple, by screen peeking, they know exactly where you are, and can safely make a blind jump from behind their cover to win. It's so annoying, especially when I and many others try to play fair and avoid peeking. I know it may be an honor system thing, but to play online where peeking isn't even possible would be great. ~Matt - --part1_4a.1b95b31c.2bd5a294_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/21/2003 10:23:48 AM Eastern Dayli= ght Time, Jwelker1@aol.com writes:

I don't think screen peeking is= a big deal.  I've just never really cared that much.  It works to= the benefit of all people (if all are doing so), so it doesn't matter to me= .  I don't/can't play such multiplayer games online either.  I don= 't know, maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but I've never thought it= was that big of deal.

Jeremy


A room full of 4 really talented players can make for some really annoying s= creen peek. One kill away from victory, you toss a nice grenade that forces=20= someone out of cover, and they magically kill you with a rocket. How? Simple= , by screen peeking, they know exactly where you are, and can safely make a=20= blind jump from behind their cover to win.  It's so annoying, especiall= y when I and many others try to play fair and avoid peeking.  I know it= may be an honor system thing, but to play online where peeking isn't even p= ossible would be great.

~Matt - --part1_4a.1b95b31c.2bd5a294_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:41:22 EDT From: DarkBastion@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D - --part1_7b.f497d04.2bd5a362_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/21/2003 11:11:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jwelker1@aol.com writes: > But then you would have to say that people and things are 4D, IMO, if things > change because of their/its actions. Who ever declared time as being the > fourthe dimension anyway? > > Jeremy Dunno. It's kind of accepted, isn't it? We all accept that depth is the third dimension. And people and things *are* 4D, at least in real life. We traverse the spatial dimensions, and we can control how we move through them, but at the same time we are subject to time. However, we are unable to manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its whim. ~Matt - --part1_7b.f497d04.2bd5a362_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/21/2003 11:11:50 AM Eastern Dayli= ght Time, Jwelker1@aol.com writes:

But then you would have to say=20= that people and things are 4D, IMO, if things change because of their/its ac= tions.  Who ever declared time as being the fourthe dimension anyway?
Jeremy


Dunno.  It's kind of accepted, isn't it? We all accept that depth is th= e third dimension.  And people and things *are* 4D, at least in real li= fe.  We traverse the spatial dimensions, and we can control how we move= through them, but at the same time we are subject to time. However, we are=20= unable to manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its=20= whim.

~Matt - --part1_7b.f497d04.2bd5a362_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:07:33 -0600 From: "Gregory A. Swarthout" Subject: Re: [NG] 4D Quoting DarkBastion@aol.com: > However, we are unable to > manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its whim. Are you discounting Einstein? - --- To make success inevitable, let's start by drawing a bunch of UML diagrams! -- Tom Copeland, Jakarta Developer [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:13:02 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D - --part1_148.fc302b9.2bd5b8de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/04/2003 4:09:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, gregorys@xmission.com writes: > Quoting DarkBastion@aol.com: > > However, we are unable to > > manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its whim. > > Are you discounting Einstein? What does tha tmean? - -Jed - --part1_148.fc302b9.2bd5b8de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 21/04/2003 4:09:05 PM Eastern Stand= ard Time, gregorys@xmission.com writes:


Quoting DarkBastion@aol.com: > However, we are unable to
> manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its whim.=

Are you discounting Einstein?




What does tha tmean?

- -Jed - --part1_148.fc302b9.2bd5b8de_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:19:38 -0400 From: Jwelker1@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D In a message dated 4/21/2003 1:03:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, d.fentie@shaw.ca writes: > > > Sigh, time to bring out the Engineering knowledge. Well you see we > would say that the OBJECT itself is 3D but it exists in a 4th dimension; > the dimension of time regardless as to whether the item is in motion or > not. In any event, games like Majoras mask are still just 4D even > though you can travel through time and arrive in the same universe and > not a parallel one (which also is impossible in my opinion). The reason > why it is still just 4D as the other games is because you are only > manipulating time, you are not bringing in a new dimension. Like in > Majoras mask you could go up to a sign and cut it in half with your > sword... the sign, being a 3 Dimensional object in a 4 Dimensional > Universe would break in 3 pieces... but in the end we still call it a 3D > object right? So if we alter time it is still there, who cares if it is > in a different order, everything is still 4D. > > Something off topic here that you may think is interesting is the fact > that Dimesions are always perfectly perpendicular to each other. In a > vector representation you could draw an 'x' and 'y' axis on a piece of > paper at 90 degrees to each other and then the third dimension would > obviously be some variable 'z' coming out of the page (or into depending > on your 'x' 'y' orientation) which would be 90 degrees to the other two > axis'. So even though we can't DRAW it, time would also be > perpendicular to these three axis' and it boggles the mind to think > about how this would be accomplished in writing (it can't). So engineers rely simply on diagrams (or other such visuals) and no text to describe it? How can you adequately explain something in that case? Jeremy [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:20:13 -0600 From: "Gregory A. Swarthout" Subject: Re: [NG] 4D Quoting Jedcross2@aol.com: > In a message dated 21/04/2003 4:09:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gregorys@xmission.com writes: > > > > Quoting DarkBastion@aol.com: > > > However, we are unable to > > > manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its > whim. > > > > Are you discounting Einstein? > > What does that mean? His theory of relativity basically says that time is not absolute and depends on the speed you are travelling and it can be warped by gravity. [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:43:40 -0400 From: Jwelker1@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Mario kart news and rumors In a message dated 4/21/2003 2:37:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, DarkBastion writes: > In a message dated 4/21/2003 10:23:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jwelker1@aol.com writes: > > > I don't think screen peeking is a big deal. I've just never really cared that much. It works to the benefit of all people (if all are doing so), so it doesn't matter to me. I don't/can't play such multiplayer games online either. I don't know, maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but I've never thought it was that big of deal. > > Jeremy > > > A room full of 4 really talented players can make for some really annoying screen peek. One kill away from victory, you toss a nice grenade that forces someone out of cover, and they magically kill you with a rocket. How? Simple, by screen peeking, they know exactly where you are, and can safely make a blind jump from behind their cover to win. It's so annoying, especially when I and many others try to play fair and avoid peeking. I know it may be an honor system thing, but to > play online where peeking isn't even possible would be great. > > ~Matt My friends and I really don't have a rule. We all do it from time to time, and it really has never been the center for any complaints. Jeremy [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:44:16 -0600 From: Don Subject: RE: [NG] 4D My friend... we do not rely on diagrams. We rely on a little something called mathematics which allows you to see things so far and beyond anything in our petty human repertoire of senses. Text is folly when describing something of this nature, mathematics is absolute. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ngamers@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-ngamers@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jwelker1@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 3:20 PM To: ngamers@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D So engineers rely simply on diagrams (or other such visuals) and no text to describe it? How can you adequately explain something in that case? Jeremy [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:27:36 -0600 From: Don Subject: [NG] Zelda WW Problems Is it just me or are there TOO MANY RUPEES in this game????? I walk around solving problems, sailing to treasures, killing enemies and there are so many damned rupees that I don't know what to do with them all. One thing that really sucks is that you can only hold a max of 200 (right now I assume there's a larger wallet or something but I don=92t know where to get it, does anyone know?) It seems like such a waste for me to be collecting thousands of rupees when you can't exceed the 200 initial limit. Oh well, what does everyone else think? - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 =20 [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:33:11 EDT From: DarkBastion@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D - --part1_7a.3dfcb280.2bd5d9b7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/21/2003 4:09:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gregorys@xmission.com writes: > Quoting DarkBastion@aol.com: > >However, we are unable to > >manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its whim. > > Are you discounting Einstein? > > --- > > To make success inevitable, let's start by drawing a bunch of UML > diagrams! -- Tom Copeland, Jakarta Developer Not really. Relativity is, well, relative, and as long as we're talking about time in the sense that we know it (here on Earth) then no, I am not discounting Einstein. And even if we were to take into account the anomalies in space and time that would take place in outer space, we would still be prisoners to the forward motion of time, no matter how fast or slow we caused it to pass. The only way we could discount Einstein would be using taking into account quantum mechanics (which Einstein himself discounted), but I am not familiar enough with the subject to speak intelligently about it. And even if I were, I doubt it would have much to do with life on gaming here on earth. ~Matt - --part1_7a.3dfcb280.2bd5d9b7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/21/2003 4:09:05 PM Eastern Daylig= ht Time, gregorys@xmission.com writes:

Quoting DarkBastion@aol.com: >However, we are unable to
>manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its whim.<= BR>
Are you discounting Einstein?

- ---

To make success inevitable, let's start by drawing a bunch of UML
diagrams! -- Tom Copeland, Jakarta Developer


Not really. Relativity is, well, relative, and as long as we're talking abou= t time in the sense that we know it (here on Earth) then no, I am not discou= nting Einstein.  And even if we were to take into account the anomalies= in space and time that would take place in outer space, we would still be p= risoners to the forward motion of time, no matter how fast or slow we caused= it to pass.  The only way we could discount Einstein would be using ta= king into account quantum mechanics (which Einstein himself discounted), but= I am not familiar enough with the subject to speak intelligently about it.=20= And even if I were, I doubt it would have much to do with life on gaming her= e on earth.

~Matt - --part1_7a.3dfcb280.2bd5d9b7_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:35:53 EDT From: DarkBastion@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] 4D - --part1_b0.37e85dff.2bd5da59_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/21/2003 5:46:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, d.fentie@shaw.ca writes: > My friend... we do not rely on diagrams. We rely on a little something > called mathematics which allows you to see things so far and beyond > anything in our petty human repertoire of senses. Text is folly when > describing something of this nature, mathematics is absolute. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ngamers@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-ngamers@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jwelker1@aol.com > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 3:20 PM > To: ngamers@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [NG] 4D > > > So engineers rely simply on diagrams (or other such visuals) and no text > to describe it? How can you adequately explain something in that case? > > Jeremy > That should be put up there with that "sea of technology" quote. ~Matt - --part1_b0.37e85dff.2bd5da59_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/21/2003 5:46:57 PM Eastern Daylig= ht Time, d.fentie@shaw.ca writes:

My friend... we do not rely on=20= diagrams.  We rely on a little something
called mathematics which allows you to see things so far and beyond
anything in our petty human repertoire of senses.  Text is folly when describing something of this nature, mathematics is absolute.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ngamers@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-ngamers@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jwelker1@aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 3:20 PM
To: ngamers@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [NG] 4D


So engineers rely simply on diagrams (or other such visuals) and no text
to describe it?  How can you adequately explain something in that case?=

Jeremy


That should be put up there with that "sea of technology" quote.

~Matt - --part1_b0.37e85dff.2bd5da59_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:39:22 EDT From: DarkBastion@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Zelda WW Problems - --part1_1d8.7fdc907.2bd5db2a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 4/21/2003 7:28:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 d.fentie@shaw.ca writes: > Is it just me or are there TOO MANY RUPEES in this game????? I walk > around solving problems, sailing to treasures, killing enemies and there > are so many damned rupees that I don't know what to do with them all. > One thing that really sucks is that you can only hold a max of 200 > (right now I assume there's a larger wallet or something but I don=E2=80= =99t > know where to get it, does anyone know?) It seems like such a waste for > me to be collecting thousands of rupees when you can't exceed the 200 > initial limit. Oh well, what does everyone else think? >=20 > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 I agree. I have the final wallet, which can hold 5,000 rupees. It's very=20 nice. But there are an insane amount of rupees. Everything you do seems to=20 reward you with either rupees or a stupid joy pendant. Anyway, to get the=20 larger wallets, go visit the fairie islands. They are on all the compass=20 directions (like North Fairy Island, for example). They are quite useful,=20 too, since things such as triforce maps and triforce map translations are=20 pretty expensive. ~Matt - --part1_1d8.7fdc907.2bd5db2a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 4/21/2003 7:28:15 PM Eastern Daylig= ht Time, d.fentie@shaw.ca writes:

Is it just me or are there TOO=20= MANY RUPEES in this game?????  I walk
around solving problems, sailing to treasures, killing enemies and there
are so many damned rupees that I don't know what to do with them all.
One thing that really sucks is that you can only hold a max of 200
(right now I assume there's a larger wallet or something but I don=E2=80=99t=
know where to get it, does anyone know?)  It seems like such a waste fo= r
me to be collecting thousands of rupees when you can't exceed the 200
initial limit.  Oh well, what does everyone else think?

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I agree.  I have the final wallet, which can hold 5,000 rupees. It's ve= ry nice.  But there are an insane amount of rupees. Everything you do s= eems to reward you with either rupees or a stupid joy pendant.  Anyway,= to get the larger wallets, go visit the fairie islands.  They are on a= ll the compass directions (like North Fairy Island, for example).  They= are quite useful, too, since things such as triforce maps and triforce map=20= translations are pretty expensive.

~Matt - --part1_1d8.7fdc907.2bd5db2a_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:45:24 -0500 From: "Chris Avery" Subject: Re: [NG] Zelda WW Problems I believe there are two more bigger wallets. I have a bigger wallet that can hold 1,000 rupees. I either spend the money on stuff. Or quit looking for treasure chests (at least the minor ones) until you need more rupees. - -- Chris Avery averyc@spamcop.net http://www.n-games.com/index.shtml - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don" To: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 6:27 PM Subject: [NG] Zelda WW Problems Is it just me or are there TOO MANY RUPEES in this game????? I walk around solving problems, sailing to treasures, killing enemies and there are so many damned rupees that I don't know what to do with them all. One thing that really sucks is that you can only hold a max of 200 (right now I assume there's a larger wallet or something but I don’t know where to get it, does anyone know?) It seems like such a waste for me to be collecting thousands of rupees when you can't exceed the 200 initial limit. Oh well, what does everyone else think? - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.474 / Virus Database: 272 - Release Date: 4/18/2003 [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:04:16 -0500 From: "Thraxen" Subject: Re: [NG] 4D > But when you look at some 3D object in the real world, and even if it is mobile, you don't say that it is 4D because of that. As you said, a manipulation of time probably is more like 4D, although I don't even know if that sits well with me either. > > Jeremy>>>> True, but we are talking about a game as a whole. Besides, technically, the images on the screen are all 2D, yet we still consider some 3D, right? It's all about perspective. Stryder [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:33:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lloyd Millard Mccoy Jr." Subject: Re: [NG] Donkey Kong GC Historically speaking, yes, Pokemon is 2nd tier. In my opinion. :-) On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, Satoshi GC wrote: > DK64 wasn't a total disaster, but the tediousness I felt toward the end > really brought my opinion of the game down. EAD wasn't really that invol= ved > with DKC in the first place, so if they made the next game, I'm not sure > what it'd be like. So, the new in-house team might be the right choice. > I'd definitely be interested in how it turns out. > -Satoshi > My Collection: http://users.ign.com/collection/Takeshi_GC > > PS: Pok=E9mon in the second tier of franchises? I think not. ;-) > > > > >From: "Lloyd Millard Mccoy Jr." > >Reply-To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com > >To: Dave > >CC: NGamers@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: [NG] Donkey Kong GC > >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:09:30 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > > I would give this project to the new in-house development branch > >creating within Nintendo. Let EAD work on other projects like Mario 128= =2E > > > > > >Is anyone looking forward to this game? It seems like the franchise's > >stock has gone down since DK64(a game that I loved). Remember when Donk= ey > >Kong was one of the big 3(Mario, Zelda,...)? It seems as if Metroid has > >sent it to the 2nd > >tier of Franchise licenses(Star Fox, FZero,Mario Kart,Smash Bros,Pokemon= ). > > > > > > > >lloyd > > > > > >[ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] > >[ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail > > > [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] > [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > sx [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lloyd Millard Mccoy Jr." Subject: Re: [NG] 4D I thought there were 11 dimensions in String Theory? lloyd On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, Gregory A. Swarthout wrote: > Quoting DarkBastion@aol.com: > > However, we are unable to > > manipulate how we traverse the 4th dimension; we're always at its whim. > > Are you discounting Einstein? > > --- > > To make success inevitable, let's start by drawing a bunch of UML > diagrams! -- Tom Copeland, Jakarta Developer > > [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] > [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > sx [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:29:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Subject: Re: [NG] 4D - --- Jedcross2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 20/04/2003 7:48:32 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > thraxen@ipa.net writes: > > > > But the term 4D when talking about games has come > to mean that some sort of > > manipulation of time beyond the normal is > involved...but all games > > definitely do involve time. > > > > Stryder > > > > > Is Blinx (or Binx) for XBOX the first 4-D game? > > -Jed > No, Spacewar was. ===== - -- Dave -- Super_trey_bros@yahoo.com uhh, sorry, I must have the wrong address __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? 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