From: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com (NGamers-digest) To: ngamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: NGamers-digest V1 #1634 Reply-To: NGamers-digest Sender: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk NGamers-digest Tuesday, July 31 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1634 Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] Gamecube blues Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] Gamecube blues Re: [NG] OS Re: [NG] Biased GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] PCs do suck Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:07:00 -0500 From: "Geoff Taylor" Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Fentie" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX > Thraxen wrote: > > > BS...I'm apparently one of the only ones here with an open mind. I > > currently own a GBA, N64, PS2 , DC, and PC.... > > Stryder > > > Or a big fatty wallet with a big fatty wad of bills................. That's not fair. I'm certainly not well off financially and I too own a GBP, GBL, GBC, 2 NGPCs, 2 GBAs, NES, SNES, N64, PSX, DC, 2 PCs and a PC laptop. I've got $50 down for a Gamecube as well, though right now I don't know if I'll be have the cash in November due to Christmas gift buying on top of the regular bills. But some how, some way, I'll get a Gamecube as soon as I can afford one. Unlike Thraxen I am married so I can't just spend, spend on what I want.... but my wife does enjoy video games as well so we always try to work out our budget for gaming. Geoff Taylor [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:27:10 -0500 From: Rick Sharer Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Thraxen wrote: > Perhaps, but I've never seen any software that didn;t crash from ANY company > on ANY platform. MS just get's more flak for being #1 and the way they go > their. But then again, their history has never been the point. Your > comparing PC OS's to a console...apples and oranges. To even attempt to > compare the two is absolutely worthless. Fact. Not *absolutely* worthless. It's the same company who has a history of bug-ridden software making a gaming console more like a PC than any other gaming console ever before. FACT. > > 2) At E3, MS stunk up the joint while Gamecube ruled. Fact. > > Never stated otherwise. MS should have done better...but since they didn't > have final hardware ready since the Nvidia GPU wasn't ready, I can overlook > a few choppy framerates at E3....the final hardware and games are all that > really matters. Fact. They will never have "final" hardware ready...there will always be patches and excuses. FACT. > >I respect your choice to choose MS' XCRAP over the superior > > Gamecube>>>> > > The above is a prime example of blind fanboy statement. Fact. The above is an example of FACT blindly protested by an MS fanboy. > Did I ever say they were better? Nope. You said you liked them better, based on never actually having seen the actual games. FACT. > You apparently have the same literacy problem Dex suffers from. And you apparently have the same illiteracy problem of not being able to write coherent sentences that properly express your thoughts. I hope it gets better. > Again, no matter how great games like SSB:M or Pikmin turn out, I'll never buy > them...they do not interest me. Spoken like a true fanboy. If it turns out that XBOX has some truly great games that sway the populace, I'll consider getting one. But since everything they've shown to date has been just the opposite, I highly doubt that will happen. > Then with Ravenblade being cancelled and Metroid looking more doubtful all the > > time with Retro's continuing problems, there go two more games I was > interested in. The simple fact is, the XBOX has more games in the genres I > like the most. Well cool for you. Me, well I never liked games in the Tech Support genre myself. Heh. > If they get negative reviews the week before launch, I'll > just buy a GC. Right now, you can no more say any GC game will be good than > I can any XBOX game. Hey, you're absolutely right, here. I'm basing it all on their respective past histories, not the pie-in-the-sky promises to part consumers from their money that MS is known for. RS _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:22:26 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Gamecube blues - --part1_3b.181790a5.28980b12_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 3:56:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sanrio@velocity.net writes: > You did add Conker to that list right? - -Jed - ----------------------------- Check out GameQubed's new forums Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_3b.181790a5.28980b12_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 3:56:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sanrio@velocity.net writes:


and a measly 12 for the N64.



You did add Conker to that list right?

-Jed
-----------------------------
Check out GameQubed's new forums
Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_3b.181790a5.28980b12_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:33:32 -0500 From: Rick Sharer Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Thraxen wrote: > Oh please...how am I an MS fanboy??? Because I said that I'm buying an > XBOX? Or was it because I said that you can't compare past MS software to a > console? Just tell me. a) because you're on a Nintendo list arguing about how you've switched plans from purchasing a GC to purchasing negatively reviewed XBOX. b) because you back MS and their poor E3 performance throwing vaporware games and MS promised tech improvements that heve never seen the light of day c) because you immediately switched from attacking the GC to attacking Dex and me when you couldn't handle the facts > I only did this to generate gaming discussion (start this thread) Well yeah, you did, and now you're whining that you got it! You wouldn't have been happy unless you got all the Nintendo "fanboys" on this list to agree with you and you know it. > > b) call Thraxen's posts 'lame' or 'unintelligent' repeatedly > > Only after having clearly personal attacks aimed at me (i.e. being called > stupid) BS. You began the personal attacks because your argument was so weak. > > c) ignore Facts about MS' poor performane both in the past and at E3 > > I've not ignored them...you have simply WAY overblown problems with MS > software and I have simply pointed out that the XBOX can't be compared to PC > software...which is a simple fact. It's more like a PC than any other gaming console ever, FACT. It's made by the company who've produced the most bug-ridden software ever. FACT. > Sorry, but you still easily qualify as a fanboy... As do you, sir. RS _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:28:07 EDT From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX - --part1_40.ef73796.28980c67_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/31/2001 2:22:22 AM Central Daylight Time, dextersy@home.com writes: > But whatever. This is my last word on the issue. further posts on this > issue won't be read. > > Dexter > Smart move, Dex. I was wise enough to stay out of this thing for awhile, but, for some reason, I got involved. I'm just as sick of all this as anyone. This is my last post on the subject as well. - -Eric- - --part1_40.ef73796.28980c67_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/31/2001 2:22:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
dextersy@home.com writes:


But whatever.  This is my last word on the issue.  further posts on this
issue won't be read.

Dexter


Smart move, Dex.  I was wise enough to stay out of this thing for awhile,
but, for some reason, I got involved.  I'm just as sick of all this as
anyone.  This is my last post on the subject as well.
-Eric- - --part1_40.ef73796.28980c67_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:36:22 -0500 From: Rick Sharer Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Dexter Sy wrote: > I just find Stryder's nuking of my rebuttals to his arguments on the > basis that I'm so biased towards Nintendo I can't be right, to be a > totally laughable injustice to the mailing list. Instead of intelligent > discussions, you have people writing their rebuttals without even > reading, or only briefly glossing over the content of what the other > posters write. Exactly. It just may not be possible for him to recognize his own bias. RS _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:02:59 -0500 From: "Geoff Taylor" Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Sharer" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX > Thraxen wrote: > > > Perhaps, but I've never seen any software that didn;t crash from ANY company > > on ANY platform. MS just get's more flak for being #1 and the way they go > > their. But then again, their history has never been the point. Your > > comparing PC OS's to a console...apples and oranges. To even attempt to > > compare the two is absolutely worthless. Fact. > > Not *absolutely* worthless. It's the same company who has a history of > bug-ridden software making a gaming console more like a PC than any other gaming > console ever before. FACT. Not FACT. I'm growing very tired of this manure. Wait. See. That is, if you're eyes are even open. > > > 2) At E3, MS stunk up the joint while Gamecube ruled. Fact. > > > > Never stated otherwise. MS should have done better...but since they didn't > > have final hardware ready since the Nvidia GPU wasn't ready, I can overlook > > a few choppy framerates at E3....the final hardware and games are all that > > really matters. Fact. > > They will never have "final" hardware ready...there will always be patches and > excuses. FACT. Again, not FACT. Microsoft will not allow patches. You guys that hate Microsoft for their OS. Well, go buy a Mac. Or format your drives and install Linux. Seriously, go install Linux. I think you'd learn something very important if you did. First off, I'd be surprised if half of you could even get Linux fully installed and online. Second, what about all those apps you enjoy using? And those of you with AOL? No access through Linux. So much spews forth from your mouths, but just how do you really know or are you just babbling prophets from the Church of Fools? My apologies, but damn... I'm getting very tired of the anti-MS stuff here. FACT. Yes, Microsoft has done some very monopolistic things. Any company in their place would be no different. That's no excuse, but it's the truth. FACT. Many of you just need to friggin grow up. FACT. Geoff Taylor [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:06:11 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Gamecube blues - --part1_f5.d31c414.28981553_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 7:54:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thraxen@ipa.net writes: > Damn! I only have like 5 or 6 games for my DC...most just never interested > me. Then again, I'm apparently just a "techie geek", so what do I know. > > Stryder > Man, you must have a Maxis game in there? - -Jed - ----------------------------- Check out GameQubed's new forums Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_f5.d31c414.28981553_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 7:54:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thraxen@ipa.net
writes:


Damn!  I only have like 5 or 6 games for my DC...most just never interested
me.  Then again, I'm apparently just a "techie geek", so what do I know.

Stryder



Man, you must have a Maxis game in there?

-Jed
-----------------------------
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Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_f5.d31c414.28981553_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:06:17 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] OS - --part1_127.239fcb8.28981559_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 9:53:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sanrio@velocity.net writes: > Is it just me, or is it true that the N64 doesn't really have an OS? > > ~~ Dave ~~ > Well, I think it does. According to the file I have on N64, PSX, Dreamcast and PS2(a specifications file, I could send it to you guys if you want, it's a .pdf file, so you need adobe to read it). The N64's OS is proprietary, same thing goes for PSX and PS2. The Dreamcast's OS is proprietary and Windows CE. Now for system specifications. N64 DC PSX PS2 Megahertz 93.75 200 33.8688 300 Main memory 4MB RD-RAM 16 MB RAM 2 MB RAM 32 MB RD-RAM graphics memory: uses main 8MB VRAM 1 MB RAM 4MB VRAM Audio memory: uses main 2MB Ram 512KB Ram 2MB Ram That's the basics. The N64's Main memory is upgradable to 8MB RD-RAM with the expansion pak. - -Jed - ----------------------------- Check out GameQubed's new forums Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_127.239fcb8.28981559_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 9:53:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sanrio@velocity.net writes:


Is it just me, or is it true that the N64 doesn't really have an OS?

~~ Dave ~~



Well, I think it does. According to the file I have on N64, PSX, Dreamcast
and PS2(a specifications file, I could send it to you guys if you want, it's
a .pdf file, so you need adobe to read it). The N64's OS is proprietary, same
thing goes for PSX and PS2. The Dreamcast's OS is proprietary and Windows CE.

Now for system specifications.

                                N64                      DC                  
 PSX               PS2   

Megahertz                  93.75                   200                   
33.8688             300

Main memory       4MB RD-RAM      16 MB RAM       2 MB RAM     32 MB RD-RAM

graphics memory: uses main            8MB VRAM        1 MB RAM       4MB VRAM
Audio memory:  uses main             2MB Ram            512KB Ram       2MB
Ram



That's the basics. The N64's Main memory is upgradable to 8MB RD-RAM with the
expansion pak.

-Jed
-----------------------------
Check out GameQubed's new forums
Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_127.239fcb8.28981559_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:06:13 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Biased GC vs XBOX - --part1_a.105f5538.28981555_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 8:23:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thraxen@ipa.net writes: > Stryder > > -"and a big FU to those who will never understand"- The truth is out there... Damn, I have no idea why I just said that. - -Jed - ----------------------------- Check out GameQubed's new forums Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_a.105f5538.28981555_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 8:23:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thraxen@ipa.net
writes:


Stryder

-"and a big FU to those who will never understand"-

The truth is out there...
Damn, I have no idea why I just said that.

-Jed
-----------------------------
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Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_a.105f5538.28981555_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:06:19 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] PCs do suck - --part1_ba.175e76b8.2898155b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 11:59:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kentop6@hotmail.com writes: > > It happened to me in Harvest Moon too. Even though it happened it is still > one of my favorite games on the system. > > Geoff W. > Man that game get's boring after some time. - -Jed - ----------------------------- Check out GameQubed's new forums Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_ba.175e76b8.2898155b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/01 11:59:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentop6@hotmail.com writes:



It happened to me in Harvest Moon too. Even though it happened it is still
one of my favorite games on the system.

Geoff W.



Man that game get's boring after some time.

-Jed
-----------------------------
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Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_ba.175e76b8.2898155b_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:06:22 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX - --part1_32.18948f1f.2898155e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/01 9:33:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Nutz4n64@aol.com writes: > Smart move, Dex. I was wise enough to stay out of this thing for awhile, > but, for some reason, I got involved. I'm just as sick of all this as > anyone. This is my last post on the subject as well. > Did I even post in this topic? - -Jed - ----------------------------- Check out GameQubed's new forums Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_32.18948f1f.2898155e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/01 9:33:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Nutz4n64@aol.com
writes:


Smart move, Dex.  I was wise enough to stay out of this thing for awhile,
but, for some reason, I got involved.  I'm just as sick of all this as
anyone.  This is my last post on the subject as well.
-Eric-



Did I even post in this topic?

-Jed
-----------------------------
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Co-Webmaster of GameQubed - --part1_32.18948f1f.2898155e_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:14:52 -0500 From: Thraxen Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX > Not *absolutely* worthless. It's the same company who has a history of > bug-ridden software making a gaming console more like a PC than any other gaming > console ever before. FACT. Rick, your arguments are laughable at best. All of the major components are being made by respected manufacturers (Nvidia, Intel, Seagate, etc), not my MS. Also, what does the fact that it uses parts found in a PC have to do with anything? It's arranged in a closed console architecture. I'm not sure what your trying to argue by bringing that up, but it's going no where. > They will never have "final" hardware ready...there will always be patches and > excuses. FACT. Fact? Hahahaha....how foolish. There will be no patches. Period. In case you care to look at the games list for the XBOX, you will see many recognizable names (like EA and Sega for example)...are these people suddenly going to be making games that require patches? Huh? Just try to put some thoughts into your arguments for once. > > > >I respect your choice to choose MS' XCRAP over the superior > > > Gamecube>>>> > > > > The above is a prime example of blind fanboy statement. Fact. > > The above is an example of FACT blindly protested by an MS fanboy. So I'm disputing a fact, huh? Then explain to me how the GC is "superior" to the XBOX. > > Did I ever say they were better? Nope. > > You said you liked them better, based on never actually having seen the actual > games. FACT. Have you even read anything I have posted...or even that you have posted?? Let me quote you directly: "I respect your choice to choose MS' XCRAP over the superior Gamecube" Hmmm...seems to me like your saying GC is superior over the XBOX without ever having seen either. Duh. Besides, you're completely off base...quote to me where I said the XBOX was superior. To save you some time (though you're still welcome to try), I haven't said any such thing. It's mighty amusing to see you trying to make points like the above statement that only actually apply to you. Heh.... > > Again, no matter how great games like SSB:M or Pikmin turn out, I'll never buy > > them...they do not interest me. > > Spoken like a true fanboy. If it turns out that XBOX has some truly great games > that sway the populace, I'll consider getting one. But since everything they've > shown to date has been just the opposite, I highly doubt that will happen. How is my statement one of a "fanboy"? Do you even know what the term implies? All I said was those types of games do not interest me...why's that a fanboy statement? Explain...just try. > Well cool for you. Me, well I never liked games in the Tech Support genre > myself. Heh. More fanboy rhetoric...does it ever end? > Hey, you're absolutely right, here. I'm basing it all on their respective past > histories, not the pie-in-the-sky promises to part consumers from their money > that MS is known for. This is where your logic is tragically flawed. MS is NOT making all the games...or even close to all the games. Your basing everything on your overblown hate for MS when most of the games are being made by other developers. That's plain stupid. That would be like me saying I'm not going to buy a PS2 because I don't like Sony games. Now pay attention...all I have said from the start of this debate is I like the looks of the games coming out for the XBOX more than I like the looks of the games currently scheduled for the GC. It has to do with personal preference with types of games and I like some a lot of the technical features the XBOX has that can potentially be used for a more engrossing gaming experience. I'm not foolishly basing my decision on some bias against or for any company. Sorry, but you, like Dex, have been easily outclassed in this debate...which is not hard when all I have to do is shootdown silly fanboy claims. Stryder [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:29:18 -0500 From: Rick Sharer Subject: Re: [NG] GC vs XBOX Geoff Taylor wrote: > Not FACT. I'm growing very tired of this manure. Wait. See. That is, if > you're eyes are even open. Back at you. There's about two million problems with MS products listed on the internet, hey, some even have included resolutions! Verifiable FACT. > Again, not FACT. Microsoft will not allow patches. Riiiiiight. > You guys that hate Microsoft for their OS. I don't hate MS. I just refuse to be a flunky for them and their *first ever* alpha gaming system. To *not* be skeptical of the XBOX is to not have your eyes open, Geoff. > Well, go buy a Mac. Or format > your drives and install Linux. Seriously, go install Linux. I think you'd > learn something very important if you did. Been there, done that. > First off, I'd be surprised if > half of you could even get Linux fully installed and online. Second, what > about all those apps you enjoy using? And those of you with AOL? No access > through Linux. So much spews forth from your mouths, but just how do you > really know or are you just babbling prophets from the Church of Fools? Heh. Passionate, ain't ya? :) > My apologies, but damn... I'm getting very tired of the anti-MS stuff here. It's just experience, Geoff. I've dealt with their products and tech staff for over fifteen years and I know what I'm talking about. I don't hate them at all, and like I said, I think their tech staff is (and HAS to be) one of the sharpest group (multitude) of people on the planet. It's the corporate suits who pressure the designers to rush these OS's out before they're even close to ready, much less bug-free, with whom my problems lie. And to see that XBOX wasn' even ready by E3, well, I'll bet you it's not 'ready' by launch time, even though it gets launched. RS _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ End of NGamers-digest V1 #1634 ****************************** [ To quit the NGamers-digest mailing list (big mistake), send the message ] [ "unsubscribe NGamers-digest" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ]