From: owner-n64-digest@lists.xmission.com (n64-digest) To: n64-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: n64-digest V1 #749 Reply-To: n64-digest Sender: owner-n64-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-n64-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk n64-digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 01 : Number 749 Re: [N64] The Legend of Zelda : Ocarina of Time Re: [N64] Scapegoating Re: [N64] Scapegoating Re: [N64] Scapegoating RE: [N64] Scapegoating Re: [N64] Scapegoating RE: [N64] Scapegoating RE: [N64] Scapegoating [N64] Zelda help Re: [N64] Zelda help RE: [N64] Scapegoating RE: [N64] Zelda help Re: [N64] Internet Dreamcast Re: [N64] Scapegoating Re: [N64] The Legend of Zelda : Ocarina of Time Re: [N64] Scapegoating ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:19:47 +1000 From: Alex Subject: Re: [N64] The Legend of Zelda : Ocarina of Time At 02:39 22-04-99 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/22/99 2:32:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >alexh@ivanhoe.hotkey.net.au writes: > > >Where did I say "title music"? I must have missed that; I said "main theme". >Zelda's Lullaby is used throughout the game and is also in the ending. If >that doesn't qualify for the "main theme" of the game I must be insano or >something. But anyway, the main point of my post is that "Zelda's Lullaby" is >not originally from Ocarina of Time. > >Trey > Sorry. I you wrote "main theme" but I read "title music". There's more music from previous games... the fairae music, the original zelda theme can sort of be heard in the hyrule field music. The music in gannon's spire. Kakariko, of course. alexh@ivanhoe.starway.net.au [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:48:40 +0100 From: Adrian Mander Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating I blame the Americans right to have a gun. In the UK most guns are now illegal, I think the only one that is legal has a tiny calibre. I cant remember the events that horrified are nation but the public outcry led to the banning of guns. A pretty repressed nation as a whole the British but then 30 gun deaths occured last year and nearly 10000 happened in the states. [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:02:45 -0500 (CDT) From: LittleKathy@webtv.net Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating - --WebTV-Mail-1158342296-3263 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Its called the Bill of Rights. Certainly no citizen needs high powered weapons,But in the hands of responsible people we have a choice to,not that I will ever get one though.Oh ,and Im glad our Law enforcement officers get to arm themselves with more than a club. - --WebTV-Mail-1158342296-3263 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by postoffice-102.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by mailsorter-102-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id BAA01249; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10aFAY-0006da-00 for n64-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:49:14 -0600 Received: from [193.60.86.52] (helo=bernstein.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10aFAW-0006dV-00 for n64@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:49:12 -0600 Received: from mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk by bernstein.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk with Sendmail (8.8.8/BSU-1.11); Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:48:40 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199904220848.JAA22011@bernstein.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.3 To: n64@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:09:34 BST." <8177A6A8FD17D21182BE0080C8470DA7037B51@SERVERA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:48:40 +0100 From: Adrian Mander Sender: owner-n64@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: n64@lists.xmission.com I blame the Americans right to have a gun. In the UK most guns are now illegal, I think the only one that is legal has a tiny calibre. I cant remember the events that horrified are nation but the public outcry led to the banning of guns. A pretty repressed nation as a whole the British but then 30 gun deaths occured last year and nearly 10000 happened in the states. [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] - --WebTV-Mail-1158342296-3263-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:02:22 -0700 From: catons@juno.com Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:48:40 +0100 Adrian Mander writes: >I blame the Americans right to have a gun. Yeah, but if they ban guns from the Americans, all they're doing is taking the guns from the good citizens... I mean most of these school shootings, massacres, etc. involve illegal weapons... A gun law wouldn't stop them from getting illegal guns but would take normal ones away from the citizens with right intentions. -Peter ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:47:27 +0100 From: MARK Subject: RE: [N64] Scapegoating Surely you must see the correlation between your right to bear arms (or arm Bears), and the US becoming a gun nation. Of course responsible people can handle guns, but it only makes it easier for people who lack responsibility or those who have more sinister intentions to possess a weapon. I am not criticising the US, it is not my place to. However as an outsider with no connections with either the Gun Lobby or the abolitionists, I feel that in the light of such happenings people have to redress, and re-educate themselves. In the UK we held a Weapons Amnesty, whereby any weapons could be brought in and deposited at local police stations, for destruction - no questions asked. It was very successful, and while we still have a way to go before we pass laws prohibiting personal ownership of ALL fire-arms, it is a very important first step. Mark P.S. we do have armed police in the u.k., and our regular officers have a far greater arsenal than just the traditional truncheon. > -----Original Message----- > From: LittleKathy@webtv.net [SMTP:LittleKathy@webtv.net] > Sent: 22 April 1999 13:03 > To: n64@lists.xmission.com > Cc: n64@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating > > Its called the Bill of Rights. Certainly no citizen needs high powered > weapons,But in the hands of responsible people we have a choice to,not > that I will ever get one though.Oh ,and Im glad our Law enforcement > officers get to arm themselves with more than a club. > << Message: Re: [N64] Scapegoating >> [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:49:48 +0100 From: Adrian Mander Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating Regardless of whether the weapons were illegal banning guns means fewer guns and therefore a harder chance of getting one. Our police do carry guns but not in all circumstances. Is there a need for a gun when all you do is highway patrol. If there was a shooting person then you just phone up for back up and the people with the guns. Wasnt there cases of highway patrol people shooting innocent drivers for next to no reason.... [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:32:10 -0500 (CDT) From: John Carson Subject: RE: [N64] Scapegoating One thing to note. These kids (use that loosely) were ex-felons. Yep. Why were they not being watched a little closer. Its easy to try and blame the media, and I even first thought the parents should be blamed somewhat, but after thinking long and hard about the whole situation, I think there is no one person to blame except the dead idiots that did this crime. Sadly, there is no real way to prevent this sort of thing. John Carson On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, MARK wrote: > It's the same old-same old when something like this happens, they > instantly look for a form of entertainment/media to blame, and always > seem to forget the country's extremely lax gun laws, and negate to > mention the fact that the abundance of availability of legal guns, makes > getting illegal guns so much easier. Look at a country like the UK, > where gun laws are a lot more controlled, but still incidences occur, > (ie: the massacre of primary school children in Scotland). If it can > happen in such a society, then it is bound occur more within a society > where guns are feely available. > > Blaming the video-games/cinema/music industries is not the key. These > two kids were inherently evil, and would sooner or later gone down the > path that they did, maybe not with as dire consequences, or maybe with > worse consequences - who is to say? > > This is a tragedy where we should look at society as a whole, and tear > it apart piece by piece to re-build a more acceptable environment. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stryder [SMTP:atcope@comp.uark.edu] > > Sent: 22 April 1999 05:49 > > To: n64@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating > > > > On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Justin Bailey wrote: > > > > > I've heard several times today that DOOM is being blamed for the > > Colorado > > > massacre. That's just crap! There was obviously something wrong > > with these > > > kids in the first place. I've played DOOM, I haven't killed > > anybody. > > > That's not the only game, either. Mortal Kombat, Turok, Resident > > Evil all > > > come to mind. I don't have a military surplus in my garage. No > > shelf full > > > of pipe bombs and hand grenades. > > > > I hear ya man. I was going to write the list about the exact same > > thing. > > There is no denying that what happened is a tragedy, but it pisses me > > off > > to no end when idiots in the media sit there and blame video games > > forstuff like this. Do they even stop to realize how many MILLIONS > > and MILLIONS of people play video games like Doom or watch R rated > > movies? What percent of those people do stuff like this? I would WAY > > less than 1%...in other words, there is likely no connection. How > > many of > > us on this list have shot somebody (I hope no one here says they have > > :))? > > And most people would consider most of us 'hardcore' gamers. Do > > something > > like what happened yesterday, there has to be something else wrong way > > beyond videogames. I suppose all those Serbians who are killing all > > those > > Kosovars must play Doom in their spare time as well. > > > > > > Stryder > > > > > > [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] > > [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > > [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] > [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- John Carson University of Arkansas [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:33:07 -0500 (CDT) From: John Carson Subject: RE: [N64] Scapegoating Come on guys. go to www.politics.com to discuss this. :) On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, MARK wrote: > Surely you must see the correlation between your right to bear arms (or > arm Bears), and the US becoming a gun nation. Of course responsible > people can handle guns, but it only makes it easier for people who lack > responsibility or those who have more sinister intentions to possess a > weapon. > > I am not criticising the US, it is not my place to. However as an > outsider with no connections with either the Gun Lobby or the > abolitionists, I feel that in the light of such happenings people have > to redress, and re-educate themselves. > > In the UK we held a Weapons Amnesty, whereby any weapons could be > brought in and deposited at local police stations, for destruction - no > questions asked. It was very successful, and while we still have a way > to go before we pass laws prohibiting personal ownership of ALL > fire-arms, it is a very important first step. > > > Mark > > > P.S. we do have armed police in the u.k., and our regular officers have > a far greater arsenal than just the traditional truncheon. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: LittleKathy@webtv.net [SMTP:LittleKathy@webtv.net] > > Sent: 22 April 1999 13:03 > > To: n64@lists.xmission.com > > Cc: n64@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating > > > > Its called the Bill of Rights. Certainly no citizen needs high powered > > weapons,But in the hands of responsible people we have a choice to,not > > that I will ever get one though.Oh ,and Im glad our Law enforcement > > officers get to arm themselves with more than a club. > > << Message: Re: [N64] Scapegoating >> > > [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] > [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- John Carson University of Arkansas [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:33:37 -0400 From: "Lapenna, Russ" Subject: [N64] Zelda help This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE8CD5.7D6AF7BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sorry guys this is a lame question. I have a bad = habit of leaving games for a very long time and not remembering what the heck is going = on. =A0 Anyway here it goes. I remember when I was playing before I was trying = to give the skull mask to the kid in the grave yard rather than the lone = skull kid in Lost Woods. I read someone's old post yesterday and realized my mistake. So last night I went to do this properly and I found the skull = kid sleeping and I couldn't talk to him. Also I couldn't select the skull = mask from my stuff it was just there kind of faded out. =A0 What I'm wondering is, does this mean I already gave him the mask cause = if I did I don't know why I can still see it in my arsenal. =A0 I understand if no one remembers this, but if so please let me know. =A0 Thanks =A0 Russ - ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE8CD5.7D6AF7BC Content-Type: image/gif; name="Judge's Chambers.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Judge's Chambers.gif" Content-ID: <222003415@22041999-2b19> Content-Location: ATT-0-CDDBABEDFAF7D211A6BB0000F83086E1- R0lGODlhIAM7ANX/ACEhISEYGCEQEGs5GGMxEHs5EEohCJRCEKVKEDkhEJxKEK1SEFopCGsxCEop EIQ5AJxCAK1KAGs5ELVaEHM5CK1SCJRCAKVKAIxCAL1aAM5jADkpGEIpEDkpEGuUjEpaWoytrWN7 e4SlpTlKSmOEhDFCQsDAwFp7eyk5OVJzczlSUkJjYzFSUiE5OSFCQnuUnEpjaxApMYSUnAAQGCk5 QggYIRghKSkxOSEpMUpKUjExORAQGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEAACYALAAAAAAgAzsAQAb/wEsl MiFmjpNJZaFcDDYcgK5UstloJRSWhsPaarialWViuUawsrlmWpVapVwJZ7sBcLfSSGXq+/+AgYKD 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E10l8HEZdF606Dha8A/00UZhEB/dJSXUxStVcBVD1HLrNZRg6VeqgAQ/VpZT1FpTVtQHtxVQaOU7 UkgLSqdNGaEC3lIojcEFQXgFzIECEGWIYfmX8nRaCaJaqaUBBeAaGLIhGiGHAEk0XwA7UjIriMM2 cfQFHsaTMtOV6gaYnLlVQQAAOw== - ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE8CD5.7D6AF7BC-- [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:44:22 CDT From: "Justin Bailey" Subject: Re: [N64] Zelda help It simply means that you need to travel back in time to talk to him. Adult Link can't trade masks. JUSTIN BAILEY - ------ ------ >Anyway here it goes. I remember when I was playing before I was >trying to give the skull mask to the kid in the grave yard rather >than the lone skull kid in Lost Woods. I read someone's old post >yesterday and realized my mistake. So last night I went to do this >properly and I found the skull kid sleeping and I couldn't talk to >him. Also I couldn't select the skull mask from my stuff it was just >there kind of faded out. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:54:55 -0700 From: Tony Myers Subject: RE: [N64] Scapegoating Mark wrote: >Surely you must see the correlation between your right to bear arms (or >arm Bears), and the US becoming a gun nation. Of course responsible >people can handle guns, but it only makes it easier for people who lack >responsibility or those who have more sinister intentions to possess a >weapon. I think the US has always been a gun nation. It's a cultural thing really, going back to Davy Crockett and the taming of the wild frontier (or something like that). I don't think the problem is a lack of laws but a deeply ingrained gun culture. Trying to legislate a culture change seems pretty hopeless (kind of like the Brit's trying to ban their afternoon tea, I suppose). Although I am total agreement with others that people always want to blame society at large for every heinous act that a sick individual may commit, this particular crime makes me a little uneasy. The whole scenario of walking into a crowded building and trying to kill everything that moves is eerily close to a typical 'shooter' type experience. I don't blame the games, but I wonder if it's possible for someone to play a game like doom and fantasize about acting out the game in real life? I never have but there may be others out there who do. Tony [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:52:00 -0400 From: "Lapenna, Russ" Subject: RE: [N64] Zelda help Thanks a lot Justin, it's amazing how much you can forget. If people really want to maximize their enjoyment of a game. Play it partway through and then don't touch it for another 6 months. It adds a whole new dimension. > > It simply means that you need to travel back in time to talk to him. > Adult Link can't trade masks. > > JUSTIN BAILEY > ------ ------ >> [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:29:22 PDT From: "Elliot Jefferson" Subject: Re: [N64] Internet Dreamcast >From: TreyTable@aol.com >Subject: Re: [N64] Internet Dreamcast >Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:00:01 EDT > >In a message dated 4/22/99 12:19:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >eljam@hotmail.com writes: > >> Console price with ease of play, but the PCs internet >> capabilities and technology. But, are consumers ready for it ? Sega >> wanted to be out there before Sony, but first isn't necessarily best. >> >> Elliot > >After the X-Band, Saturn Net Link, and that N64 modem cart it's really hard >to label the Dreamcast as the first. > >Trey I wasn't saying first as in internet capabilties, but first in the sense that they've combined the best qualities of a PC with a console. The internet is just a piece of the puzzle... Elliot > >[ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] >[ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:13:05 -0700 From: "mishtu" Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating I guess that's the price we pay for that freedom. With every freedom there is going to be something you have to give up, such as lower gun deaths. It depends on what the citizens (or dictators in many cases) think is a good trade-off. Look at a country like Singapore, which a virtually no crime because of the severity of punishment, but also has a population with few rights. The US just has a higher tolerance of what it will tolerate in order to keep our rights. I don't think any games gave the killers the idea to do what they did. I think it was the day to day ridicule they endured. They probably decided to commit suicide and wanted to take out as many people as they could before they killed themselves. The type of games people are saying contributed to the murders, 3D shooters, are a very recent development. Do you think nothing like this used to happen before the last 10 years that these games have been around? - -----Original Message----- From: Tony Myers To: 'n64@lists.xmission.com' Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 8:55 AM Subject: RE: [N64] Scapegoating > Mark wrote: > > >Surely you must see the correlation between your right to bear >arms (or > >arm Bears), and the US becoming a gun nation. Of course >responsible > >people can handle guns, but it only makes it easier for people >who lack > >responsibility or those who have more sinister intentions to >possess a > >weapon. > > I think the US has always been a gun nation. It's a cultural >thing really, going back to Davy Crockett and the taming of the wild >frontier (or something like that). I don't think the problem is a lack >of laws but a deeply ingrained gun culture. Trying to legislate a >culture change seems pretty hopeless (kind of like the Brit's trying to >ban their afternoon tea, I suppose). > > Although I am total agreement with others that people always >want to blame society at large for every heinous act that a sick >individual may commit, this particular crime makes me a little uneasy. >The whole scenario of walking into a crowded building and trying to kill >everything that moves is eerily close to a typical 'shooter' type >experience. I don't blame the games, but I wonder if it's possible for >someone to play a game like doom and fantasize about acting out the game >in real life? I never have but there may be others out there who do. > > Tony > > > > >[ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] >[ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] > [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:26:08 EDT From: Davidxvx@aol.com Subject: Re: [N64] The Legend of Zelda : Ocarina of Time In a message dated 4/22/99 12:59:37 AM Central Daylight Time, TreyTable@aol.com writes: << Ah, Zelda 64, it always comes back to Zelda 64. Remember a few months ago when someone posted what they believed (with good cause) to be the only bad thing about Zelda 64 was that it contained only new music in the soundtrack? Yes, I was a bit disappointed that the Legend of Zelda main theme from Zelda 1-4 was left out. But get this, the main theme of Ocarina of Time, Zelda's Lullaby, is not originally from Zelda 64. It can also be found in The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (Zelda 3, SNES). It is played when you rescue Princess Zelda from Hyrule Castle while Zelda explains to Link why she was locked up in the dungeon. Cool, eh? If anybody else posted this earlier I want to say that I'm not trying to take credit for something everybody but myself knew about. ;) Trey >> The theme music in the game (when Zelda is riding around on Epona on Hyrule Field) is is adapted from the song that you here when you play the flute in the original Zelda. - --David [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:32:11 EDT From: Davidxvx@aol.com Subject: Re: [N64] Scapegoating In a message dated 4/22/99 3:10:06 AM Central Daylight Time, MARK@zippack.co.uk writes: << It's the same old-same old when something like this happens, they instantly look for a form of entertainment/media to blame, and always seem to forget the country's extremely lax gun laws, and negate to mention the fact that the abundance of availability of legal guns, makes getting illegal guns so much easier. Look at a country like the UK, where gun laws are a lot more controlled, but still incidences occur, (ie: the massacre of primary school children in Scotland). If it can happen in such a society, then it is bound occur more within a society where guns are feely available. Blaming the video-games/cinema/music industries is not the key. These two kids were inherently evil, and would sooner or later gone down the path that they did, maybe not with as dire consequences, or maybe with worse consequences - who is to say? This is a tragedy where we should look at society as a whole, and tear it apart piece by piece to re-build a more acceptable environment. Mark >> You can't blame the gun laws either. Taking the example of video games; I can legally go buy a shot gun, but I'm not going to do that and go on a shooting spree. There is nothing and nobody to blame except for the two animals that did this. People are to used to playing the victim and trying to blame their problems on everyone and everything else (I wasn't loved as a child, I'm an outcast at school, I got mixed up with drugs, blah, blah, blah) instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. It won't help by making laws so strict that a person can't take a crap without filling out 100 forms. - --David [ To quit the n64 mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe n64" ] [ (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ End of n64-digest V1 #749 ************************* [ To quit the n64-digest mailing list (big mistake), send the message ] [ "unsubscribe n64-digest" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ]