From: Derrick Cole Subject: Re: Are Drips Worth It? Date: 01 Sep 1998 18:17:07 -0400 $70? Wow. Intel's DRIP is also serviced by Harris; when I "cashed out", I don't remember _any_ commission... Maybe $10? If you're referring to stocks held in a DRIP account, no, you don't need 100 shares to transfer. I was told by Waterhouse that the best way to transfer DRIP-held stocks was to have the Plan issue a certificate for the shares you own, then endorse them over to your broker. More than likely, the Plan will sell any fractional share you own and issue you a check, in addition to the stock certificate for x whole shares. Good luck, Derrick marjorie.abrams@santafe.cc.fl.us wrote: > I'm not convinced that they are. Recently, I wanted to sell > my position (93 shares) in Motorola. I had no control over > when the stock would be sold by Harris Bank and Trust. And, > when it was sold they charged a $70. commission!!! I'm > ready to get out of my Drips and use a brokerage Div.Reinvest. > In order to transfer these funds, I understand I need 100 shares > for a stock certificate. Is that right? Marjorie > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Derrick Cole Subject: Re: Are Drips Worth It? Date: 01 Sep 1998 18:24:23 -0400 I had Intel as well. First, I opened a brokerage account (I chose Waterhouse; I'm just a satisfied customer). Second, I informed each of my DRIP Plan Administrators that I wanted a stock certificate issued for all whole shares, a check from the sale of the fractional share, and my DRIP account closed. Over the next 2-4 weeks, I began receiving the certficates and checks. I then simply endorsed over the formers and deposited the latters into the brokerage account (and of course signed up for free reinvestment of dividends for all stocks/funds held in the account). Voila! As I stated in my previous, I utilized DRIPs to enmass equity a little at a time (from nothing), without being swamped with commissions on such small contributions. I, too doubt I'll need to use them again myself, now that I've established a brokerage account from same. Derrick linda_buchanan@icpphil.navy.mil wrote: > On Aug 27 Derrick Cole wrote > "... I've since consolidated my DRIPs into a single > discount brokerage account with free dividend reinvestment, and > can "enjoy" the improved liquidity, single statement, etc." > > How did you do that? I have Intel as a DRIP that I probably > should consolidate in the same way to make it easier to sell, > etc. With the advent of discount brokers I don't think I will > ever do a DRIP again. I have enough paperwork in my life. > > Lindab_29@hotmail.com > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harold R. Justice" Subject: 3-year Rule Date: 01 Sep 1998 18:17:53 -0500 I have been told anyone can give anyone else up to $10,000 per year with no gift or estate tax consequenses. However, the accountant doing my father-in-law's estate tax forms says any gift, even if it is under $10,000, that was given within 3 years of death, must be included in the gross estate. Is this correct. Please site an IRS publication to support your answer. Thanks, Harold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DukeoW@aol.com Subject: Rd: Re: purchase of one share Date: 01 Sep 1998 20:38:06 EDT In a message dated 98-08-29 22:22:54 EDT, you write: > Bertrand wrote: > Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:46:34 -0400 > From: Bertrand Horwitz > Subject: purchase of one share > > I wish to purchase one share to give to a child as a birthday present. > Where is the least expensive place that this can be done? I recently did this through Ameritrade. I paid the normal $8.95 for the trade, but then had to pay another $30 to transfer the name on the certificate and have that certificate mailed. I'm not sure how these costs may differ elsewhere, but it was very easy. Scott >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I havn't done it, but there is a racket starting with Merrill Lynch (ed) for issuing certificates. I just got Waterhouse materials and they claim that there is no charge for delivery ( the name of issuing stock in paper form ) I don't know if they are unique, but Scott charges 25 bucks on a $7 trade for delivery. If any others are "free delivery" I'd be intersting in knowing who. I havn't tried them, Waterhouse, but it would be worth a call/e-mail to confirm. I believe that they trade for 12 bucks up to more shares than I have money for. duke - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Randy Barnes Subject: Re: Re: Investing Date: 02 Sep 1998 11:30:11 -0400 > > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:31:06 EDT > From: "Michael Kurela" > Subject: Re: Investing > > >Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:15:29 -0400 > >From: "Steve Foulks" > >Subject: Re: Investing > > Stock markets are efficient ONLY in the broadest sense of the terms. Michael, Steve, and others, What a great dialog. Thanks for sharing your views, and thanks especially for the depth of your discussion. I find validity in both your posts and agree completely with both of you on many aspects of your arguments, given the proper contexts and situations. Many people can and do make a fine living my trading the short term inefficiencies in the markets. The last month has been especially good for traders. More have probably been wiped out. I have studied the markets academically, and as a hobby, since 1982, and hope to someday sit on my butt and successfully trade my own account for my livelihood. As a word of warning to many on the list that think this way of trading is a road to riches, please realize that most people that pursue trading as a career end up far worse off than they were before. I takes a great deal of money to get started, and under capitalization is probably the top reason for failure. (Or second, right behind greed, and just ahead of inexperience.) The SOES (level II) trading offices that are opening on every corner these days are the perfect place to see this activity in action. Within 2 weeks of opening accounts 80% of the traders are history. It takes a long time and deep pockets to become an effective trader and is definitely a full time career. For those that succeed the rewards are great, but the markets are very efficient at devouring the weak. Watch your back, front, and sides. Most of us are far better advised to make regular investments into index funds, SPYders, or simple index-beating strategies and letting the EFFICIENCIES of the market and the magic of TIME do their thing. A young person with a little discipline can pack away a 7 figure nest egg without winning the lottery or attempting a career of a market trader. Best wishes to all you traders and investors alike. -Randy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Foulks" Subject: Re: Investing Date: 02 Sep 1998 13:50:48 -0400 Michael Kurela stated: >Stock markets are efficient ONLY in the broadest sense of the terms. In >the short-term, they are not efficient. This is a nonsensical statement about capital market efficiency. Here is the efficient market hypothesis once again: STOCK MARKETS PRICES REFLECT ALL INFORMATION WHICH COULD EFFECT A STOCK, INSTANTLY, AND CORRECTLY. It is an instantaneous concept, not a short or long term concept. Information comes out, and the market instantly adjusts prices to reflect that information. The information could be news about a company, the economy, rumors, methods of analyzing investments or strategies for making abnormal returns, psychology about investors, etc. Either the market is efficient at this moment, or it isn't. If you told me that the market is inefficient, I can accept that as a rational proposition, or perhaps what you are saying is that there are times when it is inefficient, and times when it is efficient - that's a logical proposition also. Each proposition could be tested empirically, but given that this audience probably isn't interested in such a debate, I think I can demonstrate in terms that everyone can understand, why it is likely that most markets are efficient. I don't know how many can remember the Arab oil embargo, but as soon as the Arabs announced they were not going to ship oil to the US, lines formed instantly at gas pumps in the US, even though tankers in transit continued to deliver their oil, and there were normal oil supplies in the US. Even though there was not a shortage on that day, people realized that they had to act quickly to take advantage of this information. Sometime later, I was watching national TV news and they showed people in Japan fighting over toilet paper, because their was a shortage. The reporter then said that unless their was an increase in capacity in this US, this shortage would affect the US in a few years. I went to the store to pick up some food a few days later, and I thought maybe I should pick up some toilet paper. There was no toilet paper, no paper towels, napkins, not even any paper plates!! Morale of this story - markets react instantly to new information, they don't wait for shortages. If you want to make abnormal profits in the stock market you need to pick winners at the right time. If you were the only market participant you wouldn't have to be in a hurry to analyze new information to determine when to buy or sell. But if you had just one competitor, you would have to act before they do. Given there are millions of investors, many of whom are very adept at analyzing data in the marketplace, it is logical that the time frame from data decimation to market reaction become extremely close to instantaneous. This is the logic behind the efficient market hypothesis. Mike claims that the stock market is inefficient and he is able to make tremendous abnormal profits due to this inefficiency. I presume that it is inefficient in his mind because it doesn't take advantage of his strategy for becoming infinitely wealthy. If this strategy truly worked, then I would use it, the managers of mutual funds would use it - in fact everyone would use it because we all want to become infinitely wealthy. Since so many people are now using this strategy, the speed at which you must implement this strategy becomes very short until you have an infinitely short period of time to implement it. In other words, it potential success makes it worthless. I applaud Mike's efforts because I benefit from it - he is helping to make the market efficient for me. If the market is efficient, I can't make extra money by analyzing stocks, so why not just buy a diversified portfolio of stocks, earn the normal return which is very satisfactory, and spend my extra time doing something I like? There are inefficient markets out there. Occasionally we hear about someone going to a yard sale (a market) and buying a Rembrant for a $1 from an unsuspecting owner. Most publicly held company's, because they are small, seldom traded, and closely held, have almost no one following their progress. These markets are likely to be inefficient, but because there are tens of thousands of these companies, the cost of analyzing which are over, or undervalued, would probably outweigh the benefits. Steven M. Foulks, CPA, CFP, PhD Northern Michigan University - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred Schiff Subject: re: Stocks in IRA accounts Date: 02 Sep 1998 23:09:28 -0400 >I am thinking about opening a Roth IRA with a broker and purchasing >individual stocks with the contributions. The broker who told me that I can >contribute $2000, but my actual stock purchases cannot be for the whole wrong! get a new broker. period. If they can't give you accurate information get somebody else. If he can't give you correct information about putting money into an IRA, what about when you want to know something about distributions. Passing the series 6 & 7, licenses isn't that hard and doesn't mean that a broker is qualified to give good advise. Only that they can *sell* stocks and mutual funds. For you IRA, you might want to look into either direct purchase plans buying stock directly from the companies) some of whom allow you to have the plan setup as an IRA. Also check out the NAIC, National Association of Investor Corp. http://www.better-investing.org Not only do they have several different low-cost stock purchase plans but they also have an investment method to pick stocks based on fundamental analysis. Remember, there is no law that says you need to have all of your brokerage accounts with the same broker. Shop around. You could have your retirement accounts with a different broker. And if you're doing you're own reseach you may not need a full service broker anyway. my two dubloons. Fred Fred Schiff (fschiff@mindspring.com) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Carreiro Subject: Re: Stocks in IRA accounts Date: 04 Sep 1998 09:47:09 -0400 [Disclaimer: this is my opinion, not advice. I am not a professional.] >I am thinking about opening a Roth IRA with a broker and purchasing >individual stocks with the contributions. The broker who told me that I can >contribute $2000, but my actual stock purchases cannot be for the whole >$2000 since I have to include the commissions in the basis. This doesn't >make sense. With my mutual fund IRAs, I purchased $2000 in fund shares and >sent a separate check for the annual maintenance fee. If I were to make Your broker is correct. You cannot pay IRA trading commissions from outside of the IRA. If you do, the payment will be treated as an IRA contribution. You'll note that if you buy load funds, the same things happens if you try to pay the load with non-IRA funds. Annual custodial fees are an entirely different animal than commissions. If you don't like it, blame Congress for writing the tax law the way it did. I note that even in taxable accounts, commissions and account fees are treated differently. Account fees can be deducted currently as a miscellaneous investment expense, subject to the 2% AGI floor. Commissions may not be deducted currently and instead are capitalized into the basis of the security. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Douglas Gerlach Subject: Re: DRIPs Date: 04 Sep 1998 11:04:31 -0300 At 08:30 AM 9/4/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Over the next 2-4 weeks, I began receiving the certficates and checks. >I then simply endorsed over the formers and deposited the latters into >the brokerage account (and of course signed up for free reinvestment of >dividends for all stocks/funds held in the account). Voila! > >As I stated in my previous, I utilized DRIPs to enmass equity a little >at a time (from nothing), without being swamped with commissions on such >small contributions. I, too doubt I'll need to use them again myself, >now that I've established a brokerage account from same. If you do this, you lose the ability to invest with no commissions. The opportunity to invest in shares of stock with *no* commission is the real advantage of DRIPs -- not the reinvestment of dividends. Even at $12 or $7 commissions per trade, you have to invest several hundred dollars before the commissions become small enough to have only a minimal impact on your portfolio. Fees and commissions have a direct impact on your investment returns. _____________________________________ Douglas Gerlach Invest-O-Rama!, http://www.investorama.com DRIP Central, http://www.dripcentral.com Investment Club Central, http://www.iclubcentral.com Investor's Web Guide, http://www.investorama.com/guide - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Derrick Cole Subject: Re: DRIPs Date: 04 Sep 1998 15:19:06 -0400 No disagreement here, but keep reading: I was using DRIPs initially so that virtually all monies went towards acquiring stock (thus indeed taking advantage of "no commissions"). Now that I've "crested the wave", I'm able to contribute "several hundred dollars" and the commission indeed be negligible (compared to the amount of the contribution on a good day, < 1%). I guess it's a trade-off of style and need: if you want liquidity and control at some percentage of cost, go with a broker. If you care about neither liquidity nor control and want to minimize/remove cost, go with a DRIP. My opinion, Derrick Douglas Gerlach wrote: > If you do this, you lose the ability to invest with no commissions. The > opportunity to invest in shares of stock with *no* commission is the real > advantage of DRIPs -- not the reinvestment of dividends. Even at $12 or $7 > commissions per trade, you have to invest several hundred dollars before > the commissions become small enough to have only a minimal impact on your > portfolio. Fees and commissions have a direct impact on your investment > returns. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Carreiro Subject: Re: Stocks in IRA accounts Date: 04 Sep 1998 15:59:12 -0400 >>I am thinking about opening a Roth IRA with a broker and purchasing >>individual stocks with the contributions. The broker who told me that I can >>contribute $2000, but my actual stock purchases cannot be for the whole >wrong! >get a new broker. period. If they can't give you accurate information >get somebody else. And pray tell what did the broker get wrong? If you pay commissions on IRA trades with non-IRA money, those payments are treated as IRA contributions. If you already put in your $2000 for the year and then paid IRA commissions with non-IRA money, you'd be making excess IRA contributions and will incur an annual 6% penalty on the excess contributions and earnings allocable to them. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Carreiro Subject: Re: 3-year Rule Date: 04 Sep 1998 16:08:24 -0400 From CCH's 1998 US Master Tax Guide: "Gifts made within three years of the donor's ordinarily are not includable in the donor's gross estate. However, gifts made within three years of death are included in his gross estate if the gift consists of interests in property that would otherwise be included in his gross estate because of the donor's retained powers, such as the power to alter, amend, revoke, or terminate the gift [26 USC 2035(a)]. The gross estate of a decedent dying after August 5, 1997, however, does not include transfers from a revocable trust made within three years of the decedent's death [26 USC 2035(e)]. Such transfers will be treated as if made directly by the decedent [26 USC 2038]..." Also keep in mind that individual states can have their own rules about how gifts are pulled back into an estate for tax purposes. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Foulks" Subject: Re: 3-year Rule Date: 05 Sep 1998 01:55:17 -0400 >From: "Harold R. Justice" >Subject: > >I have been told anyone can give anyone else up to $10,000 per year with no gift or >estate tax consequenses. However, the accountant doing my father-in-law's estate tax >forms says any gift, even if it is under $10,000, that was given within 3 years of >death, must be included in the gross estate. Is this correct. Please site an IRS >publication to support your answer. > >Thanks, > >Harold You accountant is behind the times. The rule he described ended on 12/31/76. I have included the IRC code section where the issues are discussed, in parenthesis You only have to include the gift taxes paid on gifts made within 3 years of death, and as an exception, you DO HAVE TO INCLUDE the FMV of the following types of property, gifted within 3 years of death (Sec 2035): - - transfers with a retained life estate (Sec 2036) -- transfers taking effect at death (sec 2037) -- revocable transfers (Sec 2038) -- gifts of life insurance (Sec 2042) Steven M. Foulks, CPA, CFP, PhD Northern Michigan University - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kent Shaw Subject: Re: 3-year Rule Date: 05 Sep 1998 17:51:14 -0400 > >Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 18:17:53 -0500 >From: "Harold R. Justice" >Subject: 3-year Rule > >I have been told anyone can give anyone else up to $10,000 per year with no gift or >estate tax consequenses. However, the accountant doing my father-in-law's estate tax >forms says any gift, even if it is under $10,000, that was given within 3 years of >death, must be included in the gross estate. Is this correct. Please site an IRS >publication to support your answer. > >Thanks, > >Harold > The following information is not intended as tax advice. For tax advice, consult with your accountant who knows your personal situation better than I: Prior to January 1, 1977, gifts made within three years prior to death were includable in the estate if they were made "in contemplation of death". That was refutable if you could show that the donor was in good health at the time of the gift and was not advised of any terminal illness by a physician. The idea was to prevent someone who had been advised of a terminal illness from giving portions of the estate away as a tax dodge. Gifts made within three years of death by donors who die after 1981 are generally not brough back into the donor's gross estate under the bringback rule of IRC Section 2035. There are exeptions to this rule and the rules are not always simple. Ask your accountant to show you why the gifts are being included. If you are not confident in your accountants ability, you may wish to contact one of the larger accounting firms who generally are staffed with experts in gift taxes and estates--including tax attorneys. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Prabhat Mishra" Subject: persfin archives? Date: 06 Sep 1998 18:14:07 PDT Hi, Can someone point me to the persfin archives? Thanks. Prabhat ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BobWo@aol.com Subject: Mutual Fund Results Date: 07 Sep 1998 17:46:41 EDT Can anyone tell me if there is a free web site that will list the top 25 mutual funds for the prior month and/or for the prior week? Any help is appreciated. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BOB FORD Subject: hmo cost may change Date: 15 Sep 1998 09:28:44 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The cost of health insurance takes a big bite out all of our paychecks. = Because HMO's cost less than traditional health insurance, they have been gaining= members from people that want less costly health insurance. However ther= e is a growing number of people, including me, that think HMO's are a consumer= rip off. That is probably why I got on a mailing list of a group that plans to make health insurance doctors practice good medicine. = First some background. Most HMO's have a list of medicines that their doctors can prescribe. Of course, these medicines are only the cheap medicines. = In most cases HMO doctors can NOT prescribe expensive medicines because HMO's pay for the medicine their doctors prescribe. The more a medicine cost an HMO, the less profit the HMO makes. That is one way they keep costs low. = This cost saving on medicine by HMO's is going to be the basis for the attack on HMO's. = I did not really give much thought to the subject before, but after some= research, I found out that for certain diseases there is only one recognized best medicine to cure the disease. In these cases, the one best medicine is usually a new medicine and it is also usually an expensive medicine. There are older, cheaper, less effective medicines for these diseases however. Suppose yo= u have disease X and there is only one recognized best medicine (A) to cure the disease. Also suppose your HMO doctor prescribed medicine (B) to cure the disease. = Your doctor either (1) did not know about medicine (A) or (2) deliberatel= y choose not to prescribe medicine (A) for reasons not connected with what = is best for your health. If your doctor did not know about medicine (A) he/she was incompetent unless it was a very new medicine. If your doctor choose= NOT to prescribe medicine (A) because it was expensive or other non medic= al reasons, that is negligence on the part of the doctor claim the group trying to put a stop to this practice. The plan is to file a complaint with the state medical board every time a= n HMO doctor prescribes a medicine that is not the best medicine for a disease.= The group has done extensive research and knows which states medical boards a= re very tough on doctors that do not practice the highest quality of medicin= e. They will attempt to get the doctors license to practice medicine in that= state revoked. If they succeed with getting a few doctor's license revoked for= not prescribing the best medicine for a disease, you can be sure the doctors will get the message and either get out of the HMO or get the HMO to change their policy on what medicine they can prescribe. BOB FORD BOB_FORD@COMPUSERVE.COM - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Loeser" Subject: When to refinance a mortgage? Date: 15 Sep 1998 14:49 -0500 I keep watching the mortgage rates drop. How many points below my original rate should they fall before I consider refinancing? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kafer@jps.net Subject: Any Tax-Aide Volunteers in SF Bay Area??? Date: 15 Sep 1998 13:46:44 -0700 Persfiners living in the San Francisco Bay area, are you interested in volunteering as Tax-Aides/Tax Counselors for the Elderly?? This free service is provided by volunteers. The program is administered by AARP Foundation nationwide, with cooperation from the IRS. We prepare federal and state income tax returns for middle- to-low income people, with emphasis on seniors, age 60+. Volunteers attend 40 hours of IRS training and commit to at least 40 hours of service between Feb 1 and Apri 15. If you wish to volunteer or have more information, e-mail me: kafer@jps.net SUBJECT: Tax-Aide Prospective Volunteer SF Bay Include your full name, age (must be an adult), address including zip code, telephone number. If you are in Contra Costa County, we will contact you directly. If you are in another county in the SF Bay area, we'll pass your info to the county coordinator. If you live elsewhere or feel more comfortable sending your vital info to AARP directly, you can access their web site at: http://www.aarp.org/taxaide/home.html Or you can e-mail your info to: sstiles@aarp.org Or call: 1-888-AARPNOW 1-888-227-7669 Frank W. Kafer, District Coordinator, Contra Costa County, CA kafer@jps.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WMAtca@aol.com Subject: Re: Mutual Fund Results Date: 15 Sep 1998 19:30:08 EDT In a message dated 9/15/98 10:20:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-persfin- digest@lists.xmission.com writes: > Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:46:41 EDT > From: BobWo@aol.com > Subject: Mutual Fund Results > > Can anyone tell me if there is a free web site that will list the top 25 > mutual funds for the prior month and/or for the prior week? Any help is > appreciated. There are several sites that publish their list of the "best" mutual funds, but what good are they? For example, suppose I read Money magazine and bought their best 5 mutual funds. What would I do next year when the top 5 were different -- sell mine and buy 5 different ones? To me it makes more sense to find a very good mutual fund manager and then buy the mutual fund he or she manages. Then I would stick to it unless something drastic happened. After all, mutual funds should be long term investments and we shouldn't turn around and sell them because their "ranking" slipped a point or two. Just my opinion, not advice. What does anyone else think? Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Baynon Subject: QUESTION about Tax Brackets... Date: 16 Sep 1998 00:17:38 -0400 Can someone Tell me what the Federal (and STATE if applicaple) TAX BRACKETS are and what the different taxation rates for these brackets are? Thanks in advance, C Baynon -- mailto:ToothDoc@Liii.com --- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marshall Farr" Subject: Reaching age 70.5 in Dec 98 Date: 16 Sep 1998 01:16:31 -0400 I was 70 in June 98, and I know I have to start divesting myself of some of my IRA and Keogh investments. Can someone point me to an appropriate web site (or any other source of definitive info) that gives an understandable explanation of the process and the actuarial choices one has to select from? What forms need to be filed? I assume one gets them from IRS, but I wrote them over 5 weeks ago, and haven't received a response of any kind. Are all tax-deferred retirement investments such as IRAs and Keoghs counted together in order to compute the current value of one's relevant investments? As of what point in time does one figure that current value? Do any of the large fund operations such as Dreyfus, Vanguard, Fidelity, etc issue any free or low-cost booklets that explain how, when and what? Thanks. Marshall Farr - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yoda84@aol.com Subject: Re: house sitters Date: 20 Sep 1998 09:31:17 EDT Hi My sisters and I have been left with a very complicated situation since our Mom died. She had a 37 acre horse farm (in need of repair). My three handicapped brothers all lived with her. We are now trying to sell the farm and move my brothers. The farm may take a long time to sell. Since May we have been taking turns staying at the farm and caring for the brothers. This has been very difficult on us and our families. In November we plan to move the guys out but need to get a house sitter. We are still running the boarding stable and there needs to be someone here at night for security reasons. How do you get a house sitter. Do they pay some nominal rent. This is a big house (almost 5000 square feet) and the utilities are high. Any advice would be appreciated. There are many more issues to deal with here but I'll start with this. TIA Nora - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Carreiro Subject: Re: QUESTION about Tax Brackets... Date: 20 Sep 1998 14:25:49 -0400 The federal tax brackets are listed on the final page of the Form 1040 instructions (and on the instructions to Form 1040ES), both of which are available on the IRS web site. The tax rates range from 15% to 39.6% (though in some cases capital gains can be taxed as low as 10%). State tax brackets will be state specific. Check the income tax form instructions for your own state. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Carreiro Subject: Re: When to refinance a mortgage? Date: 20 Sep 1998 14:27:48 -0400 > I keep watching the mortgage rates drop. How many points below my > original rate should they fall before I consider refinancing? There's no single answer. It depends on how long you plan to stay in the house, how much in transaction fees the re-fi will cost, etc. Basically, it's worth re-financing if over the remaining time you plan to stay in the house, the money saved by the lower payments will make up for what it costs you to do the re-fi. Rich Carreiro rlcarr@animato.pn.com P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rashea Subject: Capitol One Date: 20 Sep 1998 10:55:04 EDT Due to family difficulties, a friend asked me to take over as custodian of his Capitol One account while he went abroad to deal with the problems. He wrote a letter to Capitol One giving me authority over the account, had it notarized and mailed it to them. Over a couple of months, I paid off the balance on the account and the account went inactive. Several months later, Capitol One posted a yearly renewal fee of $25 to the account. I wrote them a letter and ask that the fee be waived for the year, as the account would be inactive. No response. The next month's statement had a late fee of $25 on it. I wrote again and also called "customer relations". They refused to allow me to deactivate the account. They said only the primary cardholder could do this. I sent a message and told him the problem. Meanwhile, it got to be late in the month and I thought I might get another late fee, so I sent them the balance due. I heard from my friend a week or so later and he said he had cancelled the account and they had said they would cancel all fees. The next statement I get, they had charged the check I'd sent them against the account and waived another $25 in late fees. I was outraged and called and spoke to a customer relations supervisor, who, despite a twenty minute conversation saying he understood the circumstances, absolutely refused to refund the fees. When he said, "Is there anything else I can help you with today?" I wanted to strangle him. Since that was not possible, I am posting this to the list so that others may know the very poor service I received from Capitol One. Don't ever expect them to treat you like anything but numbers if you ever have a problem with them. Roberta Healey @colgate.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drstone@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu Subject: "best" mutual funds Date: 20 Sep 1998 18:35:59 -0500 Bob asked about a list of top-ranked mutual funds, according to recent results. Tom then wondered "what's the point?" (1) The "knowledge-is-good" reason: even if one is a long-term investor, it is still valuable to know what is happening. If your see own fund on Rukeyser's Top 100, then you at least get a warm feeling and some validation of your decision to invest in that fund. Or if your fund is one of Roy Weitz' Three-Alarm funds (i.e. not doing well against benchmarks), it might prompt you to do some investigating to see whether there has been some fundamental change in philosophy or management. That is, just seeing or not seeing a fund on a list is information, not necessarily cause to immediately buy or sell. (2) The "new-money" reason: I may have new money to invest, either now or soon, and should be investigating where to put it. Even if I decide to add to current investments, I should investigate first. A 1993 decision to dollar-cost-average into Fund X or Stock Y does not preclude a 1998 decision to invest into Fund Z if it seems better or if my needs or circumstances have changed. Checking to see which funds have done well lately is part of the picture. (Just be sure you don't think it's the whole picture.) David +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ David R. Stone Office Phone: 912-681-5335 Department of Mathematics and CS Office Fax: 912-681-0654 Georgia Southern University drstone@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu Statesboro GA 30460-8093 Home Phone: 912-681-4048 "Make sure the same dog doesn't bite you twice." Chuck Berry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kmealy@juno.com (Keith Mealy) Subject: RE: Mutual Fund Results Date: 20 Sep 1998 20:02:19 -0400 I think the assumption is that some will use these numbers to pick which funds to buy today. I saw some interesting numbers presented by a mutual fund family that was pitching my company for 401(k) business. In 1994, the top quartile mutual funds for the prior 3 years was selected and followed thru 1997. For the top quartile funds, 48% of them were in the top *two* quartiles for the next three years. As you may recall, 1994 was not the best of years for the market, but the figures indicate that being in the top quartile funds over 1992-1994 had almost no correlation with how they performed 1995-1997. Some say that looking at past performance is like driving by looking in the rear-view mirror. Looking at the last week's or month's performance would then be like opening the driver's door and looking at the road under the door. WMAtca@aol.com wisely responded: There are several sites that publish their list of the "best" mutual funds, but what good are they? BobWo@aol.com asked: > > Can anyone tell me if there is a free web site that will list the top 25 > mutual funds for the prior month and/or for the prior week? Any help is > appreciated. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Foulks" Subject: Re: When to refinance a mortgage? Date: 21 Sep 1998 01:11:15 -0400 >From: "Robert Loeser" >Subject: When to refinance a mortgage? > I keep watching the mortgage rates drop. How many points below my > original rate should they fall before I consider refinancing? Unfortunately their is no simple rule of thumb that fits all scenarios. The basic theory is to calculate the net present value of the difference in cash flows between the old and new mortgages and compare that with the closing costs. If the positive NPV from refinancing exceeds the closing costs, then refinance. This is the technique that calculators and financial planning programs use but it is very crude and will give you wrong decisions depending upon what you will do with the extra money available from refinancing. If you are going to simply refinance your current debt, then these programs and calculators will do just fine. If you told me that you planned borrow an extra $20,000 to pay off 18% non deductible credit card debt or use the extra cash to put money into a ROTH IRA in a stock mutual that you couldn't do otherwise, then the decision is too complex for most refinancing programs. You will need to sit down with your computer spreadsheet and do a customized solution. First you may to learn about doing time value of money problems. I know most American's including myself don't like to have debt, after all it represents a financial risk. Why not do what bank's do - borrow as you much as you can from them at 6.5% (pre tax) and invest the extra money in a nice diversified portfolio of stocks (long run pre tax return of about 11%), preferably on a tax sheltered basis. With interest rates as low as they are today, pay off your load as slowly as possible. If this seems too aggressive why not refinance the loan and use the extra cash from smaller payments to increase your tax sheltered savings in stock mutual funds? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Foulks" Subject: Re:Reaching age 70.5 in Dec 98 Date: 21 Sep 1998 01:12:06 -0400 >From: "Marshall Farr" >Subject: Reaching age 70.5 in Dec 98 > I was 70 in June 98, and I know I have to start divesting myself of >some of my IRA and Keogh investments. Can someone point me to an >appropriate web site (or any other source of definitive info) that >gives an understandable explanation of the process and the actuarial >choices one has to select from? What forms need to be filed? I >assume one gets them from IRS, but I wrote them over 5 weeks ago, and >haven't received a response of any kind. I personally find IRS Publications 560 and 590 to be quite helpful. You can download these from http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/prod/forms_pubs/pubs.html or probably get them at your library. Are all tax-deferred >retirement investments such as IRAs and Keoghs counted together in >order to compute the current value of one's relevant investments? They aren't all the same although regular IRA's and Keogh rules are the same. Money in a ROTH IRA never has to be withdrawn, and some money in a 403(b) plan is not subject to a required withdrawal. >As of what point in time does one figure that current value? The value is the end of year value in the year before the distribution is used. If you wait until 4/15/ in the year after you turn 70.5 to make the distribution, you will need to make "two" distributions in that year - the April 15th distribution for the prior year and a distribution by 12/31 for the current year. Steven M. Foulks, CPA, CFP, PhD Northern Michigan University - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drstone@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu Subject: Undoing Roth Date: 20 Sep 1998 19:26:16 -0500 I know that Congress tinkered with the rules for Roth IRAs, so that it will be possible to "undo" a change. For instance, if I transformed my IRA to a Roth in May, then get a big salary bonus in December which bumps me over the $100,000 limit, then I have until April 15 to undo the conversion (in some fashion which I do not understand precisely). Does anybody know the rules well enough to answer questions: (1) What circumstances allow one to undo the conversion to Roth? (2) Could a person Roth, unRoth and then Roth again in 1998? Here's the idea that prompts such a question: if I had a deductible IRA and converted it to a Roth IRA early in the year, say May, 1998, then I owe income taxes on the value. But if it were all in stocks or mutual funds, there is a good chance the value is less now, so a conversion now would incur less taxes. Thanks for any help. David +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ David R. Stone Office Phone: 912-681-5335 Department of Mathematics and CS Office Fax: 912-681-0654 Georgia Southern University drstone@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu Statesboro GA 30460-8093 Home Phone: 912-681-4048 "Make sure the same dog doesn't bite you twice." Chuck Berry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Morgan" Subject: Re: when to refinance? Date: 21 Sep 1998 09:34:34 -0600 >Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:49 -0500 >From: "Robert Loeser" >Subject: When to refinance a mortgage? > > > I keep watching the mortgage rates drop. How many points below my > original rate should they fall before I consider refinancing? There's no set answer to this question. The old "rule of thumb" used to be two points. An alternate way to do it is to compare the costs to the savings. Compare your present principal and interest payment to what it would be if you refinanced. Then look at how much per month it will save. Compare that to the cost per month of closing on the new loan, then ask yourself how long you're going to be in the home. For instance, if it costs you $2400 to refinance, and your payment drops by $100 a month, it would make sense to do this if you plan on being in the house longer than 24 months, the break even point. Also consider whether you're paying PMI, and whether you will have to pay PMI on the new loan, and adjust your calculations accordingly. Another thing to look at is how fast you want to build up equity. You might, depending on rates, be able to go from a 30 year fixed loan to a 15 year fixed and keep the payments roughly the same, and build equity a bit faster. Hope this helps. -- J. Morgan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ldavis@ix.netcom.com (Lynn R Davis) Subject: Reaching 70.5 age and IRA/Keogh Plans Date: 21 Sep 1998 10:28:53 -0500 (CDT) "Marshall Farr" wrote: I was 70 in June 98, and I know I have to start divesting myself of some of my IRA and Keogh investments. Can someone point me to an appropriate web site (or any other source of definitive info) that gives an understandable explanation of the process and the actuarial choices one has to select from? What forms need to be filed? I assume one gets them from IRS, but I wrote them over 5 weeks ago, and haven't received a response of any kind. Are all tax-deferred retirement investments such as IRAs and Keoghs counted together in order to compute the current value of one's relevant investments? As of what point in time does one figure that current value? Do any of the large fund operations such as Dreyfus, Vanguard, Fidelity, etc issue any free or low-cost booklets that explain how, when and what? Thanks. Marshall Farr Lynn Davis responded: The IRS publications on IRA's (not sure the pub number, but the people at the tax forms line will know) is available for FREE, and has the info you want. You must withdraw (and recognize for tax purposes) a certain percentage of your TOTAL IRA holdings THIS year based upon their total value as of 12/31 of LAST year. There are, as I recall, several choices on how to count "life expectancy", which depend in part upon the age of your beneficiary, if any. The same rules PROBABLY apply to your Keogh, EXCEPT that a Keogh is by definition its own pension plan and may have additional rules contained within its governing documents. So, you may need to consult those plan documents as well. With my father, we don't file any special reports. We simply make sure that the withdrawls each year equal at least the minimum calculated as the total value as of the previous year end divided by his IRS "life expectancy", and we found all of the information on how to do it in free IRS publications. Lynn Davis Fremont, CA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kristina Miranda Subject: housesitters Date: 21 Sep 1998 11:01:01 -0700 (PDT) In general, a house sitter not only stays "rent free" but they will usually expect some kind of compensation. Usually $x/day. If you want some form of rent, you should advertise for "low rent for large house in exchange for care taking". I would imagine many people would be interested in renting a cheap house in exchange for keeping an eye on things. That way, they expect to pay all the utilities. They shouldn't, however, be expected to pay for utilities unrelated to their stay. For instance, electricity or water usage for the horses. You should start by adverstising to the people that you board for. They may have college aged kids that are interested in your property for a short term rental. The rent you charge should be 25% - 50% less than what they would pay for an apartment or whatever. You would be much better off if you could find a whole family to rent to for a while. A family would be more willing to pay a higher rent than a single person probably would. When my mom moved out of state, she looked for these kind of rentals until she was sure of the area she wanted to be in. Good luck, Kristina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick.Schafer@bdk.com Subject: RE: house sitters Date: 21 Sep 1998 16:59:59 -0400 I house-sat a 500 acre farm w/business buildings in New Hampshire in the '70's. There were sheep & horses & employees. My job was to keep the driveways & walks clear in the winter, and keep the house occupied nights etc. I did it for the free rent: it was very high living at the time as the place was a showplace inside and out and had spectacular views, had been on a calendar cover etc. How they found me (and vice versa) was at the time I was playing starving artist, living in a hillside cabin & working part time as a security guard at a wealthy 'Colony Club'. A friend's parents were members. They owned the farm and business & spent winters in Florida. So it was a case of who I knew and who they knew. I recently spoke with a guy who was house sitting for friends and he said they were paying him well to do it. I have no idea how much. Good luck! Rick Schafer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sanjiv garg" Subject: Re: house sitters Date: 21 Sep 1998 18:44:24 PDT check out the caretaker gazette at: http://www.angelfire.com/wa/caretaker/ This publication matches up caretakers with owners. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "A D Tiwary" Subject: Car lease through business Date: 28 Sep 1998 11:54:20 -0400 Is there a benefit to leasing a new car through my S Corp small business? It would be used for commuting, and occasional personal use. Apparently in the past, sales tax and certain fees were deductible through the corporation. Thx. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Louis H. Hibbitts, Jr." Subject: Subject list for Persfin-Digest Date: 28 Sep 1998 13:19:37 -0400 There used to be a topical subject list for articles posted to Persfin-Digest. The old URL that I had for the site is outdated. Is there a current such site. Thank you. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jeff@scrooge.csd.sdl.usu.edu (Jeff Salisbury) Subject: Re: Subject list for Persfin-Digest Date: 28 Sep 1998 11:28:27 -0600 On Sep 28, 1:19pm, Louis H. Hibbitts, Jr. wrote: > Subject: Subject list for Persfin-Digest > There used to be a topical subject list for articles posted to > Persfin-Digest. The old URL that I had for the site is outdated. Is > there a current such site. Thank you. > > > - >-- End of excerpt from Louis H. Hibbitts, Jr. Louis, There is not a comparable URL since the persfin group changed home. The only thing that is available right now is the list archives available at: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/persfin/archive/ Best Regards, Jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ravinder Bhumbla" Subject: 401(k) Excess contributions? Date: 28 Sep 1998 14:33:39 -0400 In 1997 I changed employers mid-year. My previous employer allowed me to contribute over 30% of my salary to my 401(k) during the first half of the year and it was enough for me to reach the $9500 IRS limit before I changed jobs (I was not eligible for a 401(k) at the new employer that year). Now, my previous employer tells me that I overconributed and need to have the excess contributions returned to me. This refers to the 25% max deferral rule (Section 415?). They say that my contributions exceeded 25% of my salary with the old employer even though they were less than 25% of my total W-2 wages for 1996. They say that salary earned at the new employer cannot count towards my contributions at the previous employer. My question: Does the 25% IRS limit apply to the TOTAL salary I earned in 1997 (W-2 wages) or is the contribution at EACH employer limited to 25% of what that particular employer paid me? I'd appreciate any answers and if possible reference to a citation that I can give my previous employer. Thanks, -- Ravinder Bhumbla rbhumbla@av1377.pd8.ford.com (313) 322-6601 I do not speak for Ford Motor Company - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PowellFamily Subject: Re: Refinancing Date: 28 Sep 1998 14:37:53 -0400 Try the calculator on www.quicken.com to get some figures on whether you should refinance or not. It's under Home & Mortgage, Refinance, and in the far right column it mentions the calculator. Sherri - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jrice45515@aol.com Subject: Re: Capital One Date: 28 Sep 1998 16:56:49 EDT After several years with a secured M/C credit card account at Cap One (NYSE: COF), I had to pressure them to follow their own policy of converting it to an unsecured account. After receiving several solicitations for fee-free M/C accounts, I pointed this out to Cap One and asked for to have my annual fee waived. They balked. I canceled the account and now have a fee-free CitiBank M/C account. Apparently they are one of the many companies which are making so much money that they do not have to rely on repeats or referrals or brand loyalty for business. It must be nice. Don't try that in a small town, Mr. Business Man. One wonders why their stock price has been on the rise for the past 12mo. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark Zec" Subject: Re: Refinancing Date: 28 Sep 1998 18:00:14 -0500 Rich said: -> From: Rich Carreiro -> Subject: Re: When to refinance a mortgage? -> > I keep watching the mortgage rates drop. How many points below my -> > original rate should they fall before I consider refinancing? -> There's no single answer. It depends on how long you plan to stay in -> the house, how much in transaction fees the re-fi will cost, etc. -> Basically, it's worth re-financing if over the remaining time you -> plan to stay in the house, the money saved by the lower payments will -> make up for what it costs you to do the re-fi. And J. said: -> From: "J. Morgan" -> Compare your present principal and interest payment to -> what it would be if you refinanced. Then look at how much -> per month it will save. Compare that to the cost per month -> of closing on the new loan, then ask yourself how long you're -> going to be in the home. -> -> For instance, if it costs you $2400 to refinance, and your -> payment drops by $100 a month, it would make sense to -> do this if you plan on being in the house longer than 24 months, the -> break even point. Both have the same idea, but both are only partially correct. The only caveat to this is that you should calculate the cost savings discounting the cash flows (cost of refinancing vs. monthly savings) to their present values. The cost of refinancing is immediate ($2400 in the example above). But $100 saved every month won't equal what the same $2400, instead invested in stocks, bonds, mutual fund, etc., would equal after 2 years. Even a *very* modest return rate of 5% annually would make the value of the investment $2646. A return rate of 10% (not out of the question) would return $2904 after two years. Of course, your mileage may vary. :) Mark * GST * Honesty's a good policy but insanity's a better defense. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yoda84@aol.com Subject: Re: ex dividend dates Date: 28 Sep 1998 20:52:21 EDT Thanks to all who helped with the house sitter issue. My next thing to figure out for the estate is the ex dividend dates for her stocks. Does anyone know where I could find those on the Internet. TIA Nora Handler - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RABENFP@aol.com Subject: Choosing a financial planner Date: 28 Sep 1998 23:09:40 EDT I seem to have a mental block when it comes to understanding more than the basics of personal finances. In a weak moment I agreed to allow someone to do a financial analysis. The person turned out to be working for Primerica, which may not necessarily be a bad thing, but they are selling financial products and I don't have the expertise to evaluate them properly. How do I find an independent financial planner and what is the range of fees? Is there a good web site with a FAQ on choosing a financial planner? -Roger Barnes rabenfp@aol.com -