From: JadeTTP12@aol.com Subject: Mel Date: 01 Oct 1996 16:56:22 -0400 Just a little tidbit that nobody will care about; Mel Gibson (female make-up artist who used to do the make-up for new series TP) is now sharing an apartment with Kate Winslet because Mel is doing the make-up for Kate's new movie Jude. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Icons Date: 01 Oct 1996 17:26:23 -0400 Hello! Well, I've created an icon that says "Member of the Galactic Federation". It also contains both series icons. It's available at: http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/icon2.gif Hope you like it. Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Backgrounds Date: 01 Oct 1996 17:29:44 -0400 I've also gotten a background from Kerry and put it on the web. I really like it! It's at: http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/tpbg1.gif (sorry I had to change the file name, Kerry!) Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amanda Ohlin Subject: Re: Backgrounds & Icons Date: 01 Oct 1996 18:32:09 -0700 Amy, Kerry, your backgrounds are cool. I just had a thought while comparing the old series one to the new: what if you could get them in the correct pixel size and checkerboard them? Just an idea, and one that I don't have the knowledge to execute :( I am also trying to get up a TP page of sorts. But stay tuned for that, cause I don't know what to put on it except links--everybody else's TP pages are so cool I don't think there's anything left for me to do (sucking up like crazy :P) Anyway, I am going to mail someone about how to start a comment room (which I doubt I have the space for, but I like the idea). Later all. P.S. Before I forget--Thanx for the vote, Wendy. -- Mandi Ohlin (aka Kiara D) Co-Fleet Admiral of FOSG rabid fanfic fanatic of all genres ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit my presidential poll page at http://www.netgsi.com/users/kiarad/poll.html and help me save my government grade! It's easy, only up for a month, and I'm desperate!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sarah Elezian Subject: Re: Backgrounds & Icons Date: 01 Oct 1996 16:24:16 -0700 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Visit my presidential poll page at >http://www.netgsi.com/users/kiarad/poll.html and help >me save my government grade! It's easy, only up for a >month, and I'm desperate!! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mandi, I tried to find your poll, but my server can't find netgsi. Is that the right adress??? Sarah ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Re: Backgrounds & Icons Date: 01 Oct 1996 20:44:53 -0400 Hello! >Amy, Kerry, your backgrounds are cool. Thanks, and Kerry's certainly is! >what if you could get them in the correct pixel size and checkerboard them? That's an interesting idea. I'll have to see if that will work, considering the new TP logo is the same width but twice as tall as the old series logo. >everybody else's TP pages are so cool I don't think there's anything left for me to do You could always do a merchandise section - to explain where to find certain Tomorrow People things. I know this is a little hard to do, though, especially since the novels are so hard to find! And character descriptions are pretty much open to everybody (right??). Everybody has a different opinion, or a different way of interpreting the details the show gives you. Just a thought! Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Character descriptions (was RE:Backrounds or something) Date: 01 Oct 1996 20:24:41 -0500 (CDT) Amy said: >And character descriptions are pretty much open to everybody (right??). >Everybody has a different opinion, or a different way of interpreting the >details the show gives you. I'd love suggestions/help/whatever-- especially since I will probably be working on it very sporadically until after this rash of midterms (one tomorrow, one Friday). Which means I _will_ incorporate suggestions, just it may be awhile. Goofing off (only a little- neglecting _very_ long term stuff), Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz (Kerry Blackwell) Subject: Re: Backgrounds & Icons Date: 02 Oct 1996 13:48:16 +1300 >>Amy, Kerry, your backgrounds are cool. > >Thanks, and Kerry's certainly is! Well, I'm glad you like it. > >>what if you could get them in the correct pixel size and checkerboard them? > >That's an interesting idea. I'll have to see if that will work, considering >the new TP logo is the same width but twice as tall as the old series logo. This sounds like a good idea if someone can practically made it work. The actual file would have to have 4 logos in it so that the whole thing would checkerboard and not turn into strips. Hmmm. >And character descriptions are pretty much open to everybody (right??). > Everybody has a different opinion, or a different way of interpreting the >details the show gives you. I like this idea. How about a page for each character with a picture (if possible), a general description of each character and then a collection of different people's interpretations, opinions, significant moments etc about each one. It would give a good, well rounded view of the characters. And could be a character page as opposed to an actor page. I wouldn't mind helping collate contributions. It's a thought, anyway. Kerry (I'll start adding my .sig to my posts so you know WHICH Kerry) ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sarah Elezian Subject: Re: Backgrounds & Icons Date: 01 Oct 1996 19:00:33 -0700 I'll be happy to help with charcter descriptions for the new series. I swear I have seen the Origin, Culex, and Monsoon man at least 5 times each. I've got most of Ramses on tape, but stupid Nickelodeon had to skip the end of the series. Sarah ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amanda Ohlin Subject: Re: Backgrounds & Icons Date: 02 Oct 1996 06:51:28 -0700 Sarah Elezian wrote: > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Visit my presidential poll page at > >http://www.netgsi.com/users/kiarad/poll.html and help > >me save my government grade! It's easy, only up for a > >month, and I'm desperate!! > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Mandi, I tried to find your poll, but my server can't find netgsi. Is that > the right adress??? > > Sarah Yeah, it is. NetGSI (my provider) was really really swamped last night...maybe that's why. Thanks for trying to check it out. I really appreciate it. Mandi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ade@eideti.com Subject: Re: Icons Date: 02 Oct 1996 08:54:46 -0400 On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: >Hello! > >Well, I've created an icon that says "Member of the Galactic Federation". It >also contains both series icons. It's available at: > >http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/icon2.gif -- Sorry...I don't like this one. Soemthing strikes me wrong about it. The other one from Kerry I got an "object not found". Were you aware of this? ade ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...Night is falling And it's time to frolic with our slingers that not only twirl in the air But glow in the dark as well Hey kids, you can get your own slinger by sending ten package tops of Kool-Aid soft drink mix to Kool-Aid P.O. Box six-six-six Bradley Illinois Oh (what does Micky say here?) and happiness to get a free slinger! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McKay, Brad" Subject: Old Series books... Date: 02 Oct 1996 12:36:59 -0400 I'm heading over to England at the end of Nov and was thinking about looking for some books of some kind. Preferably picture books or any other kind of TP paraphenalia. Anyone have any ideas of places to go or what to look for? Thanks Brad ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McKay, Brad" Subject: Old Series contact! Date: 02 Oct 1996 12:17:04 -0400 I was watching my tapes (thanks again Wendy) of the old series [Revenge of Jedikiah] and saw something that NJN (station here in NJ) had put on the screen prior to the show. It was cut off, so I couldn't hear what the person said before verbally giving the address. Basically, I was wondering if anyone had seen this in their tapes and tried to contact NJN!? NJN is local for me, but I just want to get your feedback on this before I try and give them a call... ------------------------- Tomorrow People 609-777-5101 Tomorrow People NJN-CN777 Trenton, NJ 08625 -------------------------- Brad b.mckay@dialogic.com -------------- Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. -------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ari Halpern Subject: Re: Old Series contact! Date: 02 Oct 1996 15:37:24 -0400 (EDT) NJN was airing TP for a several weeks a few months back. The serial they were running was Revenge of Jedekiah. After that ended they didn't run anything else. Maybe they will be starting to run in again soon? If I remember correctly, the time it was on was 6:00pm on Saturdays. Ari -- There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets? -- Dick Cavett, mocking the TV-violence debate quantum@netlabs.net http://www.netlabs.net/~quantum ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: Old Series contact! Date: 02 Oct 1996 15:03:36 -0600 (CST) Hey all. Wendy, I'm now ready to order (at least) The Slaves of Jedikiah, and I need your address, price info, all of that schtick, so that hopefully I can have some TP by a couple of weeks or whatever. :) Marcell On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, McKay, Brad wrote: > I was watching my tapes (thanks again Wendy) of the old series [Revenge > of Jedikiah] and saw something that NJN (station here in NJ) had put on > the screen prior to the show. It was cut off, so I couldn't hear what > the person said before verbally giving the address. Basically, I was > wondering if anyone had seen this in their tapes and tried to contact > NJN!? NJN is local for me, but I just want to get your feedback on this > before I try and give them a call... > > ------------------------- > Tomorrow People > 609-777-5101 > > Tomorrow People > NJN-CN777 > Trenton, NJ 08625 > -------------------------- > > Brad > b.mckay@dialogic.com > -------------- > Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second > marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. > -------------- > > _____________________________________________________________________________ Marcell J. Elsegood Elsegood@ttu.edu Hornist, occasional composer (music and literature), Latin student Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "This will be our Zeta Sigma Chapter, Texas Tech U. reply to violence: Spring 1994 OAS,AAS,LLS! to make music more intensely, more beautifully, "Non omnes qui habent citharam more devotedly sunt citharoedi" - Varro than ever before." -Leonard Bernstein "Ipsa scientia potestas est" - Bacon "Forget belief systems; forget the parameters of rational thinking as it so smugly is called, and feel, my friend, feel..." K.A.R.R. (from Knight Rider) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Old Series books... Date: 02 Oct 1996 13:48:07 -0700 Brad sayeth: >I'm heading over to England I'm jealous. Yeah, I know I just got back from England but I want to go over again. :) My searches for TP merchandise turned up squat. Jez told me where to find one of the two tapes of SoJ in Reading. I ran across the complete set (but bought half of it) in Dublin. The remaining tape may still be there. Other than that, I don't think TP merchandise actually exists. I'm convinced it's all a vicious rumour. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amanda Ohlin Subject: Re: My poll (grrr....) Date: 02 Oct 1996 17:30:33 -0700 Amanda Ohlin wrote: > > Sarah Elezian wrote: > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >Visit my presidential poll page at > > >http://www.netgsi.com/users/kiarad/poll.html and help > > >me save my government grade! It's easy, only up for a > > >month, and I'm desperate!! > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Mandi, I tried to find your poll, but my server can't find netgsi. Is that > > the right adress??? > > > > Sarah > > Yeah, it is. NetGSI (my provider) was really really swamped last > night...maybe that's why. > > Thanks for trying to check it out. I really appreciate it. > Off topic, I know, but it concerns the sig file that I've blared all over this list. I just talked to my teacher, and he said to collect votes from teens ages 13-18 only! Aaagghh! That means I can only use two out of the eight votes I got! Not fair! Thanks for voting, though--appreciate it. I do have an on topic something--I got a response about the comment room idea. I need to check and see if my web site supports cgi scripts, and get some help from Gorebash (who has the comment room I wanted to plagiarize). But that's a possibility. Til then.. -- Mandi Ohlin (aka Kiara D) Co-Fleet Admiral of FOSG rabid fanfic fanatic of all genres ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Calling all net users 13-18! Visit my presidential poll page at http://www.netgsi.com/users/kiarad/poll.html and help me save my government grade! (Teens only by teacher command.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Old Series books... Date: 02 Oct 1996 22:25:45 +0100 In message <199610022048.NAA11983@m2.sprynet.com> ladyslvr@sprynet.com writes: > Brad sayeth: > >I'm heading over to England > I'm jealous. Yeah, I know I just got back from England but I want to > go over again. :) Glad to hear Oxford didn't put you off :) > My searches for TP merchandise turned up squat. > Jez told me where to find one of the two tapes of SoJ in Reading. I > ran across the complete set (but bought half of it) in Dublin. The > remaining tape may still be there. Other than that, I don't think TP > merchandise actually exists. I'm convinced it's all a vicious rumour. Believe me, there is nothing apart from the original novels, annuals and comic strips, and more recent magazine articles. I was contacted two years ago by someone who was assisting in getting a book together, but it never appeared. In some ways the material for the new series is less. The tapes of SoJ are still available through Pastel Blue I think (http://www.demon.co.uk/pastel). Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Old Series books... Date: 02 Oct 1996 21:37:17 -0500 (EST) Jez quoted Ladyslvr and wrote: > I'm jealous. Yeah, I know I just got back from England but I want to >> go over again. :) > >Glad to hear Oxford didn't put you off :) That was the only less than enjoyable part of my last trip there, Oxford. It's a beautiful old city (by American standards). However, it was just too crowded for me... and very difficult to get around. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scottg@global2000.net (ScottG) Subject: Re: Old Series books... Date: 02 Oct 1996 22:00:50 -0400 >That was the only less than enjoyable part of my last trip there, Oxford. > >It's a beautiful old city (by American standards). However, it was just too >crowded for me... and very difficult to get around. > If you want to read something funny about Oxford traffic, try reading Dirk Gentlys(sp) Holistic Detecive Agency by Douglas Addams... He has some very interesting remarks about traffic and traffic circles..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Old Series books... Date: 03 Oct 1996 06:39:14 +0100 In message <01IA6KKOYVIA8Y5LRV@delphi.com> PANNELLJ@delphi.com writes: > Jez quoted Ladyslvr and wrote: > > I'm jealous. Yeah, I know I just got back from England but I want to > >> go over again. :) > > > >Glad to hear Oxford didn't put you off :) > That was the only less than enjoyable part of my last trip there, Oxford. > It's a beautiful old city (by American standards). However, it was just too > crowded for me... and very difficult to get around. And you were there in March - think what it is like in July! Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Quote quiz Date: 03 Oct 1996 12:25:30 -0500 (EST) Has anyone other than me attempted this quiz? I want to know if at this late date I should take the effort to answer them. I think another one or two came to me as I was looking at it again... John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Old Series books... Date: 03 Oct 1996 12:25:38 -0500 (EST) >> That was the only less than enjoyable part of my last trip there, Oxford. >> It's a beautiful old city (by American standards). However, it was just >>too crowded for me... and very difficult to get around. > >And you were there in March - think what it is like in July! With any luck all the British are off in the Lake Country or in Cornwall (or in flippin' Dorset ) however that would be when all the foreign tourists show up. I shudder to think what it's like then. Then again... I wonder how much more "popular" Eton has become as an alternate college town tourist spot now that the tourists can go looking about for Wills? John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Quasar Date: 03 Oct 1996 14:48:09 -0700 Jez sayeth: >And you were there in March - think what it is like in July! Overrun with kids from Italy and Spain at the Uni for foreign language programs. I had a great time playing against them in LaserTag every night. :) Oxford is fine if you're not trying to drive around it. I was staying at Somerville college, about 3 blocks off city-centre. Which meant everywhere in the town where I wanted to go was within a five mile radius of me. ObTP: Does anyone (Jez?) know which Quasar arena was being used in "Culex" when Richie (the scientist's son) and Jim are playing laser tag? The London phone book listed only two Quasar arenas and the one in Piccadilly was long since closed. I couldn't find the other one. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Quote quiz Date: 03 Oct 1996 14:48:30 -0700 John asketh: >Has anyone other than me attempted this quiz? I haven't yet. The only one I could answer was #3, which I found appalling since I've seen the eps so many times. I'm curious to know the answers so I can go watch the eps again and find out why I didn't know the answers :) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McKay, Brad" Subject: Re: Quote quiz Date: 03 Oct 1996 18:08:58 -0400 What quote quiz are we referring to? Brad b.mckay@dialogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smccrory@calweb.com (Selma McCrory) Subject: Re: Quote quiz Date: 03 Oct 1996 15:45:06 -0800 Since I started the quote quiz, I'd better reply. :) As of this writing, three people, including John, have given me partial or full answers to the quiz. I invite anyone who wants to try the quiz to do so. Even if you can only answer one or two questions. :) I intend to post the answers sometime on Sunday. Selma Selma McCrory * smccrory@calweb.com * selmamc@aol.com "We're peaceful. We can't wage wars, and we can't kill. Not deliberately, anyway." -Carol, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidi8@cris.com (Heidi Howard) Subject: RE: Articles relating to old series.... Date: 03 Oct 1996 20:17:19 -0400 I was going thru some of my old compuper files, and found my Collection of Mike Holoway articles, which I downloaded from LEXIS back when I still had my free lawschool account. Does anyone want the other 5-6 articles I have about the show (most are reviews of musicals starring the still-actingly-employed Mr. Holoway...) DAILY MAIL October 27, 1995 SECTION: Pg. 69 LENGTH: 1560 words HEADLINE: TIME TO TRAVEL ON FOR SPACE CHILDREN BODY: What are the time-travelling Tomorrow People of the Seventies television series doing today? MIKE HOLOWAY, who played Mike Bell in The Tomorrow People series, is very much a today person now, having made the transition from child actor to adult performer with ease. He's co-starring in the musical Twist And Shout on a nationwide tour. None of the other child stars of the series is prominent in showbusiness today. Simon Stone, Ultragem Productions, London. INTENDED as ITV's answer to Dr Who, the Thames TV children's series The Tomorrow People began in 1973 with Stephen Salmon playing Kenny, Sammie Winmill as Carol, Nicholas Young as John and Peter Vaughan Clarke as Stephen. They were homo superior, the next step in human evolution, with special powers of telepathy, telekinesis and self-teleportation through time and space. The original four had an HQ in a disused London Underground tunnel and, over six series until 1979, protected Earth and its inhabitants with the help of their supercomputer Tim. It spawned no stars apart from Holoway, though it did give an early part to Peter Davison who later played Dr Who. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ari Halpern Subject: RE: Articles relating to old series.... Date: 03 Oct 1996 20:52:58 -0401 (EDT) On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Heidi Howard wrote: > Does anyone want the other 5-6 articles I have about the show (most are > reviews of musicals starring the still-actingly-employed Mr. Holoway...) > I would like to see them. I am a big theatre/musicals person as well as an old series fan. Thanks. Ari quantum@netlabs.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: TP availibility Date: 03 Oct 1996 21:18:22 -0400 Just out of curiousity, how many people on this list can still see the old or new series of the Tomorrow People? Could you tell me where you are? Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: TP availibility Date: 04 Oct 1996 11:51:01 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 3 Oct 1996 AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: > Just out of curiousity, how many people on this list can still see the old or > new series of the Tomorrow People? Could you tell me where you are? I can't see any TP at the moment (the Old Series was last shown a few years ago, and the new series has not yet arrived), but if the ABC keeps their promise I should be able to start seeing the new series in about a month. I live in Australia. BTW, I'd be happy yo put the old TP articles that someone metioned earlier on my TP webpage. At the moment there is virtually nothing there. Once I have seen the new series, look out for fanfics. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smccrory@calweb.com (Selma McCrory) Subject: New series quote quiz Date: 04 Oct 1996 00:20:30 -0800 Why? Because a couple of you asked for it. :) This is another quote quiz. This time, all quotes are new series. And, I think, this quiz should be easier than the last one I gave. Identify the speaker, who they're speaking to, and what story it's in. Post your answers either to me or to the list. The answers will be posted on October 11. (And, for those of you who have forgotten, the deadline on the old series quiz is the 6th.) Here we go... 1. "Okay, I admit it. I'm better at grilling a cheese sandwich than a tight lipped teenager." 2. "I hate this dream! Now you stay right there. Leave me alone!" 3. "Security code, huh?" 4. "So, you gonna blow my mind or shall I blow yours?" 5. "What? He's my Dad, he's supposed to say that kind of thing!" Selma McCrory * smccrory@calweb.com * selmamc@aol.com "We're peaceful. We can't wage wars, and we can't kill. Not deliberately, anyway." -Carol, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Articles relating to old series. Date: 04 Oct 1996 13:42:09 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Heidi Howard wrote: > Does anyone want the other 5-6 articles I have about the show (most are > reviews of musicals starring the still-actingly-employed Mr. Holoway...) > I'll also second my vote for these. Perhaps the website offer...? John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: RE: Articles relating to old series.... Date: 04 Oct 1996 20:08:45 +0100 In message heidi8@cris.com (Heidi Howard) writes: > DAILY MAIL > October 27, 1995 > MIKE HOLOWAY, who played Mike Bell in The Tomorrow People series, is very > much a today person now, having made the transition from child actor to adult > performer with ease. He was really a child performer rather than an actor. Ray Burdis in particular made fun of his acting ability within 'You Must Be Joking', where he was primarily employed as a drummer within the band Flintlock. I believe Roger Price more or less sent him to drama school to learn some technique. > He's co-starring in the musical Twist And Shout on a > nationwide tour. None of the other child stars of the series is prominent in > showbusiness today. Doesn't being an agent count. Suppose not. > The original four had an HQ in a disused London Underground tunnel and, over > six series until 1979, protected Earth and its inhabitants with the help of > their supercomputer Tim. Don't know how they get six series. > It spawned no stars apart from Holoway, though it did give an early part to > Peter Davison who later played Dr Who. Holoway is not really a 'star'; he has a very low profile as a singer - to get his CDs you have to order them. Somewhere I have a very short clip from the BBC 'Pebble Mill' show where he was singing with Paul Shane. The interviewer (Sarah Greene) doesn't ask him a single question directing them all to Shane, and he doesn't even get a mention on the programmes credits. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ade@eideti.com Subject: Re: Articles relating to old series. Date: 05 Oct 1996 01:06:56 -0400 -- Yepp... On Fri, 04 Oct 1996, PANNELLJ@delphi.com wrote: >On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Heidi Howard wrote: > >> Does anyone want the other 5-6 articles I have about the show (most are >> reviews of musicals starring the still-actingly-employed Mr. Holoway...) >> > >I'll also second my vote for these. > >Perhaps the website offer...? > >John > > > ade ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...Night is falling And it's time to frolic with our slingers that not only twirl in the air But glow in the dark as well Hey kids, you can get your own slinger by sending ten package tops of Kool-Aid soft drink mix to Kool-Aid P.O. Box six-six-six Bradley Illinois Oh (what does Micky say here?) and happiness to get a free slinger! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: My TP Homepage Date: 06 Oct 1996 22:35:59 +1000 (EST) I have just been updating all of my homepages including my TP homepage. I have added hypertext versions of the media articles sent by (I think) Heidi Howard, and a review of the original TP novelisation 'The Visitor'. Please have a look at my page and let me know what you think. The URL of my homepage is http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/8017/index.html Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Character Guide Date: 06 Oct 1996 12:24:43 -0500 (CDT) OK, I have the original series pretty much done- even recurring characters- but I'm wondering if I should include Evergreen Boswell (Tyso's sister), Bruce Forbes (Andrew's dad), and maybe Tyso's mother as well? Oh, well, take a look if you like: http://public.carleton.edu/~epsteinb/tpchar.html I'll probably start on the new series soon, and I'll probably put it at: http://public.carleton.edu/~epsteinb/nschar.html (to make up for tpdg being new series and osdg being original.:) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Quasar Date: 06 Oct 1996 21:20:04 +0100 In message <199610032148.OAA20269@m2.sprynet.com> ladyslvr@sprynet.com writes: > ObTP: Does anyone (Jez?) know which Quasar arena was being used in > "Culex" when Richie (the scientist's son) and Jim are playing laser > tag? The London phone book listed only two Quasar arenas and the one > in Piccadilly was long since closed. I couldn't find the other one. Not just closed but they went bust and the area has just been reposessed by the building management. The main feature of the Troc these days is Sega World, with a souvenir shop where Nickelodeon UK used to be before they moved to Rathbone Place next door to CNN, which always seems to have a large number of people standing outside smoking. A lesser known sight in London ... (I pass it on the way to the BFI Library). Coming back to the point I have heard claims that the old place in the Troc was used in Culex, but I have not seen any real evidence. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Re: Quasar Date: 06 Oct 1996 18:21:07 -0400 Over this weekend I went to the Quasar that is currently in Ocean City, Maryland. Considering it was my first time and I only saw the game from TV (Culex ofcourse :))... let's just say my attempt at it was... slightly horrible. I was only killed about 17 times :) Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smccrory@calweb.com (Selma McCrory) Subject: Quote quiz answers Date: 06 Oct 1996 16:05:23 -0800 This is for the original series quote quiz. The new series one is still going, for anyone who wants to try. Three of you participated, and didn't do too badly. Either the rest of you are not into quote quizzes, or I made this one too hard. 1. "It's buzzing, John." Elizabeth to John, in Secret Weapon episode 3 (John is examining the spy-camera). 2. "We've got to do something. Without his special powers, he's helpless." Chris to John and Elizabeth, Rift in Time episode 2 (upon discovering that the TP are somehow minus their powers near the gladiator school). 3. "You two talking mind-talk to each other about me, then?" Mike to Stephen and Tyso, One Law episode 3 (Stephen has just told Tyso that Mike's been lying about where he's been). 4. "What the heck's hyperspace?" I goofed. This quote was supposed to be "Where the heck's hyperspace?". The speaker was Ginge, speaking to Jedikiah in Slaves of Jedikiah episode 3 (Jedikiah then attempts to explain hyperspace to him, in a speech that's repeated in "The Medusa Strain" and, I believe in "Revenge of Jedikiah"). 5. "Be careful. It could be booby-trapped." Harry Stein to Stephen, Vanishing Earth episode 4 (trying to stop Stephen from going into the transporter). -- Oh, and one person got number 1 right, two people got number 3 right, and 1 person got number 4 right. There were a few very close guesses on number two, and someone got the season right on number 5. Selma Selma McCrory * smccrory@calweb.com * selmamc@aol.com "We're peaceful. We can't wage wars, and we can't kill. Not deliberately, anyway." -Carol, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smccrory@calweb.com (Selma McCrory) Subject: More TP page updates Date: 06 Oct 1996 20:15:17 -0800 Guess everyone's either updating or thinking about updating their pages today. :) Anyway, the new edition of the quote quiz is at , or you can get to it off of the main old series link. The other thing that I've started putting up is episode synopses for the new series. Right now, the only one up is the synopsis for the first story, at . You'll have to directly go to that one, as I haven't got the synopsis pages linked yet. If anyone has any suggestions or ideas, please write me. Selma Selma McCrory * smccrory@calweb.com * selmamc@aol.com "We're peaceful. We can't wage wars, and we can't kill. Not deliberately, anyway." -Carol, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Web Pages Date: 07 Oct 1996 00:20:42 -0500 (EST) I guess today really is the day for updating web pages! I finally took the plunge earlier today and spent quite some time working on my own page. There are links there to many of my various interests. At this point, there is not much original content there and it points mainly at other's pages. Apparently I cannot yet upload images on my chosen ISP for this page. I'm not a fan of overly graphical web pages, just for graphics' sake, but still, it restricts me so. If you want to learn something about me from the pages I link to check it out... otherwise, a "Grand Opening" will occur once get more work done on it. The page starts at: http://www.netcom.com/~jpannell/home.html John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 14:40:57 +1000 (EST) I've finally started my first TP fanfic (based on The Old Series). My memory of it, is getting tusty and so I have a few questions. 1) Where di TIM come from? Was he built by John or from the Trig? 2) Does the Trig have any power to make rulings on Earth affairs? Didn't they declare the Earth a closed world? 3) What exactly is an Ambassador? Was there an ambassador to/from Earth and the Trig? 4) Can an unconcious TP be carried along on a jaunt by other TP? 5) Do we have any idea what rooms the lab had (after the fire)? 6) Were there any 'normal' entrances to the post-fire lab? 7) Did a long distance jaunt (ie from the Trig to Earth) take any significant amount of time? 8) How did the TP communicate with the Trig? 9) The TP seem to have an aversion to drugs, even ones as mild as aspirin. What about other substances, such as caffeine (coffee, chocolate)? 10) Did the younger TP go to school (specifically towards the end of the series.) I know one of them did, early on, but I can't remember whom. I know there are a lot of questions here but any answers would be appreciated. Even if you think, there is no clear answer to one of my questions, please let me know (then I can feel free to make something up.) Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 00:08:22 -0500 (CDT) My quoting technology's pretty ancient, so bear with me, but Dreadnought said: >1) Where di TIM come from? Was he built by John or from the Trig? TIM was initiated by Tikno (from the Trig) and assembled by John. John thought he built Tim with equipment from the Federation before "Worlds Away", though. >2) Does the Trig have any power to make rulings on Earth affairs? Didn't >they declare the Earth a closed world? Not really, although a galactic policeman does decide he has juristiction (at least a little) in The Vanishing Earth. and yes. >3) What exactly is an Ambassador? Was there an ambassador to/from Earth >and the Trig? Someone who represents the interests/head of whatever to whatever (I think). Yes, two: Carol and Kenny. And Liz helped out from time to time. >4) Can an unconcious TP be carried along on a jaunt by other TP? I'm not sure if they can or if TIM has to jaunt them in, but either way it should work. Oh, and if you want to go by "The Stars My Destination" (good book- so far- BTW), they can jaunt with anything they can carry. The Fed cop in TVE jaunted with Stephen. >5) Do we have any idea what rooms the lab had (after the fire)? 1. The lounge (main room), and John's, Mike's, Liz's, and Hsui Tai's "cabins" (bedrooms- smaller than most dorm rooms here) are shown. Andrew's is implied. (Incidently, as you face the jaunting pad, the boys' rooms are on the left and the girls' on the right.) John also refers to the workshop although we never see it (there are doors). >6) Were there any 'normal' entrances to the post-fire lab? None shown. Any Saps were brought with matter transporters, but this is also for security's sake. (I wouldn't if I were them, after all the times the last lab had been broken into.) >7) Did a long distance jaunt (ie from the Trig to Earth) take any >significant amount of time? Yes, no. What episode are we talking about? They did in "One Law" but not in "War of the Empires" >8) How did the TP communicate with the Trig? Telepathic video link. A sort of booster signal, I suspect, and seems to work from anywhere on the Trig to the Viewing screen in the lab (this didn't actually occur until Liz started making visits there- with the advent of the old lab). >9) The TP seem to have an aversion to drugs, even ones as mild as >aspirin. What about other substances, such as caffeine (coffee, chocolate)? Mike and the others have hot chocolate in "Castle of Fear", and John drinks coffee in the same episode- no word if it's decaf though. Incidentally, I avoid most caffine like the plague, but I don't worry about the miniscule amount that's in chocolate. (I get hyper- it's not pretty, trust me.) >10) Did the younger TP go to school (specifically towards the end of the >series.) I know one of them did, early on, but I can't remember whom. Um, good question. Second season Stephen did, but it was only made a big deal out of when it was important to the episode. Mike did circa "Heart of Sogguth" (Liz said: "They're still in school.") But he was too old come the last two seasons (in Britian, anyway:). No word about Andrew- at least in the series. Wow, that's it. Hope this helps, Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 16:55:54 +1000 (EST) Thank you so much for answering my questions. These answers and your character guide are making this so much easier. BTW with reference to your Character page, as far as I know all the minor characters (Jedikiah etc) are listed. When I said that I thought doing the minor characters might be a good idea, I was referring to the ones you mentioned in your original post - Brian Forbes etc. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Sorry! Date: 07 Oct 1996 16:58:25 +1000 (EST) That last e-mail should have gone privately. Not that I object to thanking Beth publicly for her help, but I don't want to annoy anyone else. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 12:28:52 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > >9) The TP seem to have an aversion to drugs, even ones as mild as > >aspirin. What about other substances, such as caffeine (coffee, chocolate)? > Mike and the others have hot chocolate in "Castle of Fear", and John drinks > coffee in the same episode- no word if it's decaf though. Wasn't the decaf back then pretty vile? Did they even have it? I'm a tea drinker and I don't drink coffee unless I really need a caffiene hit (which rules out decaf), so I'm a bit vague. I expect a small to moderate amount of the real thing would be preferable. There is a reference to John and Liz drinking coffee in one of the books (and I think it says something about Liz drinking a lot of coffee). I would assume they also drank tea (being English - I think it's in their contract :) but there isn't as much caffiene in that. Any speculation about stuff like aspartame (I guess it would have been saccharin or cyclamate back then)? Gosh, maybe aspartame removes or suppresses TP ability - maybe that's why they aren't breaking out all over... :) Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 14:05:01 -0500 (CDT) Jane Starr said: >Any speculation about stuff like aspartame (I guess it would have been >saccharin or cyclamate back then)? Gosh, maybe aspartame removes or >suppresses TP ability - maybe that's why they aren't breaking out all >over... :) Hey, maybe that's my problem! (You're putting me right off my Crystal Light, you know that, don't you?) Beth- who couldn't resist, sorry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Web Pages Date: 07 Oct 1996 20:40:29 +0100 Since these seem to be flavo(u)r of the month I'll remind everyone of the list of individual episodes including their UK airdates I placed at http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/4981/TP.html. Some of you might find the rest of the site of interest too. To change the topic, the next Memorabilia '96 event happens in a couple of weeks at Earls Court. If anyone would like me to try to find something for them please e-mail me privately. Most of the 70s books turn up at these events, but they are at collectors' (read expensive) prices. Nothing guaranteed though. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 14:15:11 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > Jane Starr said: > >Any speculation about stuff like aspartame (I guess it would have been > >saccharin or cyclamate back then)? Gosh, maybe aspartame removes or > >suppresses TP ability - maybe that's why they aren't breaking out all > >over... :) > Hey, maybe that's my problem! (You're putting me right off my Crystal Light, > you know that, don't you?) > Beth- who couldn't resist, sorry Well, good . At least the side-effects of sugar are well known. I don't think that's my problem though - more than trace amounts of artificial sweeteners (well, aspartame, anyway) disagree with me, and so the only artificial sweetener I get is in my toothpaste (the only place, AFAIK, it is still legal to use cyclamates), and the odd stick of gum. I figure better the devil I know (sugar). Of course, it could be the fluoridated water (no, too many parts of the world don't have fluoridation), or something else. Hmm. Conspiracy theory. Prevent the saps from evolving and getting too hard to control... Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 16:22:27 -0500 (CDT) Jane said: >I figure better the devil I know (sugar). Makes me too hyper (and it's not pretty, belive me). >Of course, it could be the fluoridated water (no, too many parts of the >world don't have fluoridation), or something else. Hmm. Conspiracy >theory. Prevent the saps from evolving and getting too hard to control... I'm trying to decide if you've been watching too much X-Files, Dr. Strangelove, or just seen Worlds Away too many times. :) Seriously, I think maybe some chemicals might interfere with TP stuff in large doses- the question of course is how large and for how long, and how long does it take to get out of your system. The question is do you have to get into mortal danger to break out? (This is the determining factor in the new series.) Or does just happen (original series)? And who's trying to prevent the Saps from breaking out? Us, the Trig, world governments, non-telepathic alien powers, the Shadows, the Vorlons (oops- final 5 started and I got B5 on the brain)- really, Jane, you should be more specific...... Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amanda Ohlin Subject: Beta reader needed.... Date: 07 Oct 1996 17:49:29 -0700 Hi guys. I just finished "Reflections", a sequel/prequel to "Reunion", and desperately need a beta reader for this one. It's a bit longer and a bit knottier, and Tana is only mentioned in passing. But it clears up some questions from its predecessor. If anyone has a little time, please mail me and I'll send it. Thanks! -- Mandi Ohlin (aka Kiara D) Co-Fleet Admiral of FOSG rabid fanfic fanatic of all genres ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Calling all net users 13-18! Visit my presidential poll page at http://www.netgsi.com/users/kiarad/poll.html and help me save my government grade! (Teens only by teacher command.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 16:31:35 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > The question is do you have to get into mortal danger to break out? (This is > the determining factor in the new series.) Or does just happen (original > series)? I'd say both. Tricia, after all, broke out under extreme pressure (was she in actual personal danger? I forget). She was already halfway there, but then, so was Kevin. Maybe if they hadn't needed to escape danger the new TP would have eventually broken out more like the old TP. I can't imagine the whole human race having to be put in mortal danger in order to break out. Another related question is, what about 2nd generation TP - would they be TP from birth or break out at or after puberty? Speaking as a parent the former possiblity gives me the screaming meemies. Having my kids break out at or shortly after puberty would be bad enough... keeping track of a toddler who can teleport? **shudder** > >Of course, it could be the fluoridated water (no, too many parts of the > >world don't have fluoridation), or something else. Hmm. Conspiracy > >theory. Prevent the saps from evolving and getting too hard to control... > I'm trying to decide if you've been watching too much X-Files, Dr. Strangelove, > or just seen Worlds Away too many times. :) I wish. > And who's trying to prevent the Saps from breaking out? Us, the Trig, world > governments, non-telepathic alien powers, the Shadows, the Vorlons (oops- final > 5 started and I got B5 on the brain)- really, Jane, you should be more > specific...... You forgot Psi Corps (I see them as a kind of alternate reality TP - John's controlling tendencies taken to horrible extremes, seriously twisted and without the no-kill limitation). However, my money is on the mice. Humans becoming TP would interfere with the great search for the ultimate question of life, the universe and everthing, and then they'd never get on the talk show circuit and become fabulously wealthy. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 18:05:21 -0500 (CDT) Jane Starr said: >Maybe if they hadn't needed to escape danger the >new TP would have eventually broken out more like the old TP. I can't imagine >the whole human race having to be put in mortal danger in order to break out. Oh, good, no need to transfer to the U of Chicago and leave campus then. :) >Another related question is, what about 2nd generation TP - would they be >TP from birth or break out at or after puberty? Speaking as a parent the >former possiblity gives me the screaming meemies. Having my kids break >out at or shortly after puberty would be bad enough... keeping track of a >toddler who can teleport? **shudder** Just 'cause Ade had Andrew's daughter doing that in A Touch of Days to Come (sitting in the archive at two parts :() doesn't mean it's so. I think it probably wouldn't happen- look at Kenny! Then again, the new generation has been having a sort of easier time of it. I really don't think a toddler would have the cognitive ablilities to teleport if even if they could. Besides, with the energy it takes maybe they have to stop growing first :). I would think so, anyway, but I'm only on my first and second upper level Bio classes at the moment, and neither is human physiology or biochemistry, so I may not know. >> And who's trying to prevent the Saps from breaking out? Us, the Trig, world >> governments, non-telepathic alien powers, the Shadows, the Vorlons (oops- >>final >> 5 started and I got B5 on the brain)- really, Jane, you should be more >> specific...... >You forgot Psi Corps (I see them as a kind of alternate reality TP - >John's controlling tendencies taken to horrible extremes, seriously >twisted and without the no-kill limitation). VERY seriously twisted. John's about as close to a benevolent dictator as you can get- he's a parent! :) I sometimes wonder if the reason Stephen and Tyso disappeared when they did was because they had to leave the "nest" so to speak. :) (Better add that to the character guide.) >However, my money is on the mice. Humans becoming TP would interfere with >the great search for the ultimate question of life, the universe and >everthing, and then they'd never get on the talk show circuit and become >fabulously wealthy. But what if the question is "How many special powers does it take to promote universal peace and harmony?" (For those of you who haven't read The Hitchiker's Guide to The Galaxy yet- you should, it's good, and I'm sorry we're confusing you.:) I really ought to do homework now, Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Plug for my Fanfic Date: 08 Oct 1996 09:46:04 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: (SNIP) > And who's trying to prevent the Saps from breaking out? Us, the Trig, world > governments, non-telepathic alien powers, the Shadows, the Vorlons (oops- final > 5 started and I got B5 on the brain)- really, Jane, you should be more > specific...... It's nowhere near finished yet, but my fanfic will have a theory on why the TP stop breaking out. It will also try to explain why the new TP powers differ slightly from the old TP. I'm going to need someone who is familiar with the old show to bete-read for me and try and catch any of my mistakes. Any volunteers? Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 07 Oct 1996 22:11:12 -0600 (MDT) On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote (re: breaking out in 2nd generation TP, some stuff deleted) > Just 'cause Ade had Andrew's daughter doing that in A Touch of Days to Come > (sitting in the archive at two parts :() doesn't mean it's so. I think it > probably wouldn't happen- look at Kenny! Then again, the new generation has > been having a sort of easier time of it. I really don't think a toddler would > have the cognitive ablilities to teleport if even if they could. Besides, with > the energy it takes maybe they have to stop growing first :). I would think > so, anyway, but I'm only on my first and second upper level Bio classes at the > moment, and neither is human physiology or biochemistry, so I may not know. Well, I think pre-teen breaking out is unlikely, too, just from a survival of the species p.o.v. Kids can get into enough trouble already :). The stopping growing idea doesn't work for me - anyone who breaks out at 11 to 14 (when most of the old series TP did - I think only Liz and Tricia would have been full grown) hasn't stopped growing. And anyone who thinks a toddler doesn't have the energy to teleport and grow at the same time has never lived with one :) Cognitive development is a more logical theory, or something to do with the nervous system, perhaps. > >> And who's trying to prevent the Saps from breaking out? Us, the Trig, world ...stuff deleted > >You forgot Psi Corps (I see them as a kind of alternate reality TP - > >John's controlling tendencies taken to horrible extremes, seriously > >twisted and without the no-kill limitation). > VERY seriously twisted. John's about as close to a benevolent dictator as you > can get- he's a parent! :) True. You have to admire someone willing to parent teenagers without being broken in by all the earlier stuff. He may not have been perfect, but, by gum, he was there trying. > >However, my money is on the mice. Humans becoming TP would interfere with > >the great search for the ultimate question of life, the universe and > >everthing, and then they'd never get on the talk show circuit and become > >fabulously wealthy. > But what if the question is "How many special powers does it take to promote > universal peace and harmony?" Telepathy, teleportation, psychokinesis, *maybe* clairvoyance (is that the same as precognition?) - what would the other 38 special powers be? :> Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: TP Book Reviews Date: 08 Oct 1996 15:33:28 +1000 (EST) I have just managed to get hold of novelisations of 'The Rameses Connection' and 'The Living Stones.' I intend to review them. What I'm asking is has anyone on the list reviewed them yet. I was going to do 'Culex' but someone has already done that, so my review can wait. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 08 Oct 1996 00:37:21 -0500 (CDT) >The >stopping growing idea doesn't work for me - anyone who breaks out at 11 to >14 (when most of the old series TP did - I think only Liz and Tricia would >have been full grown) hasn't stopped growing. Oops, OK, good point. >And anyone who thinks a >toddler doesn't have the energy to teleport and grow at the same time has >never lived with one :) Last time there was one in my house for more than a few hours was back before I was watching the original series, and that was me, so you're right! >Cognitive development is a more logical theory, or >something to do with the nervous system, perhaps. How old are your kids? Try pouring a thin container of water into a thick one and ask them when there's more water in the glass. They'll tell you the thin one 'cause it's higher. RE: the other 38 powers: Well, I knew I was wrong when the universe wasn't replaced, anyway. :) Psychometry for another one. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: Plug for my Fanfic Date: 08 Oct 1996 01:15:14 -0600 (CST) What explanation? The hole in the ozone layer, maybe? ;) MJE On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Shaun Owen Hately wrote: > On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > > (SNIP) > > And who's trying to prevent the Saps from breaking out? Us, the Trig, world > > governments, non-telepathic alien powers, the Shadows, the Vorlons (oops- final > > 5 started and I got B5 on the brain)- really, Jane, you should be more > > specific...... > > It's nowhere near finished yet, but my fanfic will have a theory on why > the TP stop breaking out. It will also try to explain why the new TP > powers differ slightly from the old TP. > > I'm going to need someone who is familiar with the old show to bete-read > for me and try and catch any of my mistakes. Any volunteers? > > Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I > Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working > / |out all the combat tables and everything. > o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time > \ |the dice caught fire . . .' > drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett > > _____________________________________________________________________________ Marcell J. Elsegood Elsegood@ttu.edu Hornist, occasional composer (music and literature), Latin student Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "This will be our Zeta Sigma Chapter, Texas Tech U. reply to violence: Spring 1994 OAS,AAS,LLS! to make music more intensely, more beautifully, "Non omnes qui habent cornum sunt more devotedly, cornicines" - adapted quote from Varro than ever before." -Leonard Bernstein "Ipsa scientia potestas est" - Bacon "Forget belief systems; forget the parameters of rational thinking as it so smugly is called, and feel, my friend, feel..." K.A.R.R. (from Knight Rider) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 08 Oct 1996 06:23:59 -0500 (EST) re: breaking out at puberty or before, Beth writes: >...have the cognitive ablilities to teleport if even if they could. > Besides, with the energy it takes maybe they have to stop growing first :). Hmm... obviously you don't watch the old series much. Let me you tell you, Stephen, Tyso and Mike definitely did NOT stop growing after they broke out! John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sarah Elezian Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 08 Oct 1996 06:35:25 -0700 At 12:28 PM 10/7/96 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: >> >9) The TP seem to have an aversion to drugs, even ones as mild as >> >aspirin. What about other substances, such as caffeine (coffee, chocolate)? >> Mike and the others have hot chocolate in "Castle of Fear", and John drinks >> coffee in the same episode- no word if it's decaf though. Jane Starr's addition: >Wasn't the decaf back then pretty vile? Did they even have it? I'm a tea >drinker and I don't drink coffee unless I really need a caffiene hit >(which rules out decaf), so I'm a bit vague. I expect a small to moderate >amount of the real thing would be preferable. There is a reference to John >and Liz drinking coffee in one of the books (and I think it says something >about Liz drinking a lot of coffee). I can easily say that in the new series, TP drank coffee. At one point in Monsoon Man, Megabyte dropped by Ami's asking for coffee. I'm sure that the effects would be different on the second generation, seeing as in many ways they are different than the first. Sarah ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scottg@global2000.net (ScottG) Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 08 Oct 1996 11:09:37 -0400 >On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > > >However, my money is on the mice. Humans becoming TP would interfere with >the great search for the ultimate question of life, the universe and >everthing, and then they'd never get on the talk show circuit and become >fabulously wealthy. > Now there is a great idea for a crossover series... a TP and HHGTG - Have Arthur Dent break-out.... That would sure stop the monkey jokes! ScottG 'Cause when your a proffestional pirate, you don't have to wear a suit - MTI ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 08 Oct 1996 09:22:25 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > >Cognitive development is a more logical theory, or > >something to do with the nervous system, perhaps. > How old are your kids? Try pouring a thin container of water into a thick one > and ask them when there's more water in the glass. They'll tell you the thin > one 'cause it's higher. I'm going to try that. I bet the 7 year old gets it right, but the 4 year old, maybe not. They are quite relentlessly scientific. Their heroes are Beakman, Bill Nye, the guy who hosts "The Secret Life of Machines" and Brains from Thunderbirds, and they beg to do experiments and perform complicated engineering feats with lego and the wooden train set. When they aren't fighting or watching TV, that is. Fighting ... maybe that's it! Little kids are violent beasts. They hit and punch and bite and have tantrums. Their cognitive development has to progress beyond that to a point where they can use reason instead of violence to solve problems. The last phase of ontogeny recapitulating phylogeny, or something like that. That doesn't explain why none of us have broken out, but it certainly explains a lot of the rest of the world :) Of course, it could be subliminal messages on tv... Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Baby TP's Date: 08 Oct 1996 19:18:45 +0300 (EET DST) On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 Jane Starr wrote >Another related question is, what about 2nd generation TP - would they be >TP from birth or break out at or after puberty? Speaking as a parent the >former possiblity gives me the screaming meemies. Having my kids break >out at or shortly after puberty would be bad enough... keeping track of >a toddler who can teleport? **shudder** To break out at birth and survive I think their mental development would have to be drastically accelerated as they could, I guess, immediately establish telepathic contact with their parents. Also, I seem to remember in the old series that if the other TP's did not get to them quickly enough the intense telepathic signals around them could potentially drive them insane. I'm sure this would be a danger to a newborn TP. Excellent descriptions of the development of telepathically (as well as other abilities) gifted children can be found in Julian May's book Intervention. It is, in my opinion, a brilliant piece of work. Her grouping of psi abilities into 5 different categories was also very clever (see below). Note - Intervention is actually preceded by four books, which give background for Intervention. I must admit though I found these a bit slow to begin with (I still read all four in one week, though). Continuing on from Intervention is the Milieu Trilogy - Jack the Bodiless, Diamond Mask and Magnificat - all of a similar quality to Intervention. Possible Spoilers below Possible Spoilers below The psi abilities are categorised as follows: psychokinesis - enough said farsensing - what is often referred to in parapsychology as remote viewing: the ability to see what is going on somewhere else in the world etc. also equated with Out of Body Experiences. This category also included telepathy described as farspeech (I think) creativity - the ability to create matter or energy. i.e. produce energy bolts, project images, create protective shields etc. One of the most prized abilities in the book (small wonder) redaction - the ability to heal, either mentally or physically. Aggressively could be used as a mindream (sounds nice doesn't it), i.e. mental interrogation/torture. coercion - ability to control another person by thought alone. An extremely rare ability, possibly a combination of some of the above, is d-jumping which is basically teleportation. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Old TP questions Date: 08 Oct 1996 11:29:43 -0500 (CDT) John Pannell said: >re: breaking out at puberty or before, Beth writes: >>...have the cognitive ablilities to teleport if even if they could. >> Besides, with the energy it takes maybe they have to stop growing first :). >Hmm... obviously you don't watch the old series much. I did this summer, but now I have these nasty things called two credit labs that really mess with one's mind- like yesterday that fact didn't hit me for quite awhile. :) >Let me you tell you, Stephen, Tyso and Mike definitely did NOT stop growing >after they broke out! No kidding, but if they all ate like Stephen the energy theory might still hold. Keep in mind toddlers' brains are still developing (I think- it's been a long time since psych and I'm not premed) and.... oh, never mind. (I still hold this is why Ami is a stick.:) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: Baby TP's Date: 08 Oct 1996 11:52:45 -0600 (CST) Michael: I think that your reprint of the psi list is interesting. Speaking as a fan and sometimes victim of the known laws of physics, however, it would seem to be just as likely for someone to be able to teleport as be able to "create~ matter or energy. Remember, according to what we know currently, no matter or energy is ever created or lost, just transformed. But perhaps matter/energy transference is what the author meant. In that case, since that is what teleportation is, one might speculate that teleportation would be definitely possible, although perhaps a rematerialization would be unlikely, just a dematerialization. Marcell On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Michael Edmonds wrote: > On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 Jane Starr wrote > > >Another related question is, what about 2nd generation TP - would they be > >TP from birth or break out at or after puberty? Speaking as a parent the > >former possiblity gives me the screaming meemies. Having my kids break > >out at or shortly after puberty would be bad enough... keeping track of > >a toddler who can teleport? **shudder** > > To break out at birth and survive I think their mental development would > have to be drastically accelerated as they could, I guess, immediately > establish telepathic contact with their parents. Also, I seem to remember > in the old series that if the other TP's did not get to them quickly > enough the intense telepathic signals around them could potentially drive > them insane. I'm sure this would be a danger to a newborn TP. Excellent > descriptions of the development of telepathically (as well as other > abilities) gifted children can be found in Julian May's book Intervention. > It is, in my opinion, a brilliant piece of work. Her grouping of psi > abilities into 5 different categories was also very clever (see below). > > Note - Intervention is actually preceded by four books, which give > background for Intervention. I must admit though I found these a bit slow > to begin with (I still read all four in one week, though). > Continuing on from Intervention is the Milieu Trilogy - Jack the Bodiless, > Diamond Mask and Magnificat - all of a similar quality to Intervention. > > > Possible Spoilers below > > > > > > Possible Spoilers below > > > > The psi abilities are categorised as follows: > psychokinesis - enough said > farsensing - what is often referred to in parapsychology as remote > viewing: the ability to see what is going on somewhere else in the world > etc. also equated with Out of Body Experiences. This category also > included telepathy described as farspeech (I think) > creativity - the ability to create matter or energy. i.e. produce energy > bolts, project images, create protective shields etc. One of the most > prized abilities in the book (small wonder) > redaction - the ability to heal, either mentally or physically. > Aggressively could be used as a mindream (sounds nice doesn't it), i.e. > mental interrogation/torture. > coercion - ability to control another person by thought alone. > > An extremely rare ability, possibly a combination of some of the above, is > d-jumping which is basically teleportation. > > Michael > > > _____________________________________________________________________________ Marcell J. Elsegood Elsegood@ttu.edu Hornist, occasional writer (music/lit), Latin student. Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "This will be our Zeta Sigma Chapter, Texas Tech U. reply to violence: Spring 1994 OAS,AAS,LLS! to make music more intensely, more beautifully, "Non omnes qui habent cornum sunt more devotedly, cornicines" - adapted quote from Varro than ever before." -Leonard Bernstein "Forget belief systems; forget the parameters of rational thinking as it so smugly is called, and feel, my friend, feel..." K.A.R.R. (from Knight Rider) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Baby TP's Date: 08 Oct 1996 21:51:05 +0300 (EET DST) I agree. Creativity is just the term for the ability. Although if I remember my physics correctly the amount of energy required for such matter energy conversion will still be relatively high. One additional problem with teleportation is the transport of the matter from one place to another, something that I guess is conveniently covered with places such as hyperspace. On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Marcell J. Elsegood wrote: > Michael: I think that your reprint of the psi list is interesting. > Speaking as a fan and sometimes victim of the known laws of physics, > however, it would seem to be just as likely for someone to be able to > teleport as be able to "create~ matter or energy. Remember, according to > what we know currently, no matter or energy is ever created or lost, just > transformed. But perhaps matter/energy transference is what the author > meant. In that case, since that is what teleportation is, one might > speculate that teleportation would be definitely possible, although > perhaps a rematerialization would be unlikely, just a dematerialization. > > Marcell > > On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Michael Edmonds wrote: > > > On Mon, 7 Oct 1996 Jane Starr wrote > > > > >Another related question is, what about 2nd generation TP - would they be > > >TP from birth or break out at or after puberty? Speaking as a parent the > > >former possiblity gives me the screaming meemies. Having my kids break > > >out at or shortly after puberty would be bad enough... keeping track of > > >a toddler who can teleport? **shudder** > > > > To break out at birth and survive I think their mental development would > > have to be drastically accelerated as they could, I guess, immediately > > establish telepathic contact with their parents. Also, I seem to remember > > in the old series that if the other TP's did not get to them quickly > > enough the intense telepathic signals around them could potentially drive > > them insane. I'm sure this would be a danger to a newborn TP. Excellent > > descriptions of the development of telepathically (as well as other > > abilities) gifted children can be found in Julian May's book Intervention. > > It is, in my opinion, a brilliant piece of work. Her grouping of psi > > abilities into 5 different categories was also very clever (see below). > > > > Note - Intervention is actually preceded by four books, which give > > background for Intervention. I must admit though I found these a bit slow > > to begin with (I still read all four in one week, though). > > Continuing on from Intervention is the Milieu Trilogy - Jack the Bodiless, > > Diamond Mask and Magnificat - all of a similar quality to Intervention. > > > > > > Possible Spoilers below > > > > > > > > > > > > Possible Spoilers below > > > > > > > > The psi abilities are categorised as follows: > > psychokinesis - enough said > > farsensing - what is often referred to in parapsychology as remote > > viewing: the ability to see what is going on somewhere else in the world > > etc. also equated with Out of Body Experiences. This category also > > included telepathy described as farspeech (I think) > > creativity - the ability to create matter or energy. i.e. produce energy > > bolts, project images, create protective shields etc. One of the most > > prized abilities in the book (small wonder) > > redaction - the ability to heal, either mentally or physically. > > Aggressively could be used as a mindream (sounds nice doesn't it), i.e. > > mental interrogation/torture. > > coercion - ability to control another person by thought alone. > > > > An extremely rare ability, possibly a combination of some of the above, is > > d-jumping which is basically teleportation. > > > > Michael > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________________ > Marcell J. Elsegood > Elsegood@ttu.edu > > Hornist, occasional writer (music/lit), Latin student. > > Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "This will be our > Zeta Sigma Chapter, Texas Tech U. reply to violence: > Spring 1994 OAS,AAS,LLS! to make music > more intensely, > more beautifully, > "Non omnes qui habent cornum sunt more devotedly, > cornicines" - adapted quote from Varro than ever before." > -Leonard Bernstein > > "Forget belief systems; forget the parameters of rational thinking as it > so smugly is called, and feel, my friend, feel..." K.A.R.R. (from Knight Rider) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Blackwell Subject: Re: Baby TP's Date: 09 Oct 1996 09:23:27 +1100 > I agree. Creativity is just the term for the ability. Although if I > remember my physics correctly the amount of energy required for such > matter energy conversion will still be relatively high. One additional > problem with teleportation is the transport of the matter from one place > to another, something that I guess is conveniently covered with places > such as hyperspace. And to go back to the question about why you can't teleport if you can "create" matter and/or energy, I think Julian May's argument was that the energy required to cross the threshold into hyperspace was very high, and the process was also very painful and human minds didn't manage it very well. So that made d-jumping much less likely. [Michael, what was the device called that made d-jumping easier - a Mitigator?] For TP, that threshold idea has never existed. I don't think, it is a very, very long time since I got to see the old series and my memories are hazy. Kerry ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kirbyko3@aol.com Subject: It is with regret.... Date: 08 Oct 1996 17:00:54 -0400 Hi all, My mailbox has been so crowded lately, and I haven't been able to participate in these discussions much because of lack of time, so I'm wondering how to remove myself from the discussion list for the time being. Anyone? Talk to you in the future! Kerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Plug for my Fanfic Date: 09 Oct 1996 09:00:28 +1000 (EST) On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Marcell J. Elsegood wrote: > What explanation? The hole in the ozone layer, maybe? ;) > > MJE No actually, (although that could work). I tried to come up with a more 'imaginative' theory. I won't go into it now, in case it changes, but it will be in my fanfic. It's up to the reader sot judge if it makes sense. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: Baby TP's Date: 09 Oct 1996 08:14:48 +1000 (EST) Marcell J. Elsegood wrote: > > Michael: I think that your reprint of the psi list is interesting. > Speaking as a fan and sometimes victim of the known laws of physics, > however, it would seem to be just as likely for someone to be able to > teleport as be able to "create~ matter or energy. Remember, according to > what we know currently, no matter or energy is ever created or lost, just > transformed. But perhaps matter/energy transference is what the author > meant. In that case, since that is what teleportation is, one might > speculate that teleportation would be definitely possible, although > perhaps a rematerialization would be unlikely, just a dematerialization. Well of course in the TP universe it isn't a matter/energy conversion, it's travel through hyperspace - at least in the old series. The old-series explanation for jaunting is that one hops into hyperspace, and then hops out at one's desired destination. Elizabeth, when she was breaking out, did an accidental jaunt, and only got as far as hyperspace, presumably because she didn't have a destination in mind. In the original series, the distance one could teleport unaided was deemed to be limited - but I'm not sure whether it was because (a) they had to see where they were teleporting to (the jaunting belts were used to "set the coordinates") or (b) the actual distance was too far or (c) both. In the new series, such augmentation does not appear to be necessary. If one wishes to reconcile the old and new series, one needs to come up with an explanation for this. Some possible ones: - the beacon acts as an energy booster as well as a jaunting-magnet. - the Khultan psi-dampers which had been in place for thousands of years, having finally broken down, still had enough residual radiation around to weaken the powers of flegling TPs. I rather like this idea, except that this still makes The Rameses Connection contradict the old series. I think in both series, it would still not be possible to jaunt unaided to another planet or star: in the old series they had a special inter-stellar jaunting beam or something, and in the new series of course, they aren't dashing around on other planets anyway. As for the categorisation of psi powers, some traditional categories are: - telepathy: communicating by thought This can be verbal or visual or both. In the Tomorrow People it tends to be verbal. In The Champions it's visual, and in the Chrysalids it's verbal, visual, emotional... Unfortunately that is rather hard to convey on TV. - telekinesis (or psychokinesis): moving objects at a distance Depending how fine or gross this one is, one could throw rocks, unlock locks, or mend broken glass. This one has all sorts of fallout: if one could manipulate objects at the molecular level (which could be the level required to mend broken glass) then one could move the molecules in a glass of water to heat it up - or in wood to cause it to burn. Thus pyrokinesis (causing objects to catch fire) could be a specialized instance of telekinesis. - precognition: seeing the future This one is usually involuntary - it comes *upon* one, it can't be deliberately invoked. - clairvoyance: seeing objects at a distance A related one is Finding: finding objects which are lost. - teleportation: moving (almost) instantly from one point to another This one usually involves just moving oneself (with or without clothing or carrying objects) but in some versions it also means one can teleport other objects as well as oneself. (Vernor Vinge wrote an interesting novel called "The Witling" which was about a planet where the natives and wildlife had this ability, and what effect this had on that society. Good extrapolation.) - healing: either mental or physical or both Creating illusions is probably not an ability in itself, but a possible combination of projective telepathy and maybe TK, or something else to manipulate light. However, thinking in the traditional categories sometimes blinds one to the other possibilities. Zenna Henderson's People stories (wonderful, wonderful, wonderful) don't stick to the traditional categories. How would you categorise "platting the twisher"? Or weather control? Causing a nickel to glow? Making clothes fit perfectly without sewing? (Hmm, that reminds me of the magic in Judith Tarr's elven novels - weaving cloth out of light, now that's cool.) However, most stories that deal with psi powers stick to the traditional ones, and often only telepathy and/or telekinesis and/or teleportation. K.J.A. -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: ADMIN: Quoting Date: 08 Oct 1996 18:25:09 -0700 I've said it before and I'll say it again: Please, please, please don't quote the entire message to which you're responding. Four lines of quotes should be enough so people know what you're responding to. If it isn't, paraphrase. On a list this size, we all get to see the original message anyway and it's not like there's no much traffic that people can't remember what they've been reading. Many people have to pay for their on-line time, and having to download the same message more than one is a waste of money and tends to make people very irritable. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Baby TP's Date: 09 Oct 1996 08:02:24 +0300 (EET DST) On 9th October 1996, Kerry B. wrote And to go back to the question about why you can't teleport if you can "create" matter and/or energy, I think Julian May's argument was that the energy required to cross the threshold into hyperspace was very high, and the process was also very painful and human minds didn't manage it very well. So that made d-jumping much less likely. [Michael, what was the device called that made d-jumping easier - a Mitigator?] I think the mitigator was a form of mental program. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 09 Oct 1996 08:37:23 +0300 (EET DST) - clairvoyance: seeing objects at a distance I always thought clairvoyance was another name for precognition. I would check but I can't get my hands on an english dictionary at the moment. (I can, however, tell you that telepathy in Finnish is telepatia or ajakusensiirto and clairvoyance is selvänäköisyys) I think if you really try hard enough you can reduce almost all varietys of psi ability down to two or three if not less - If you really push it, the definition of telekinesis could be widened to explain telepathy and teleportation. However, as they say, variety is the spice of life and the stories by Zenna Henderson, Julian May and others certainly show this to be true. Although must admit some of the terms used by Zenna Henderson are truely perplexing. I must read her work again! Another ability that could be thought of as somewhat separate from others is empathy (IMO significantly different from telepathy). While this is not an ability that I think would be easy to deal with, I think the world would certainly be a better place if we could somehow increase everyones empathy. (And for goodness sake DON'T start thinking of Deanna Troi! IMO this is the worst representation of empathy I have even seen/read.) Michael ps In the old series could all the TP project images or was it just Andrew and John? And what about the molecular level telekinesis. I seem to remember Tyso (15 year old memories here. I'm not sure of their accuracy) reassembling broken glass, but can't remember any other examples. I'm not sure if I have asked this before and/or got an answer as our e-mail server crashed a couple of weeks ago and wiped a load of messages. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 09 Oct 1996 21:43:24 +1000 (EST) Michael Edmonds wrote: > > - clairvoyance: seeing objects at a distance > > I always thought clairvoyance was another name for precognition. I would > check but I can't get my hands on an english dictionary at the moment. > (I can, however, tell you that telepathy in Finnish is telepatia or > ajakusensiirto and clairvoyance is selvänäköisyys) From my Collins English dictionary - clairvoyance: (1) the alleged power of percieving things beyond the natural range of the senses (2) keen intuitive understanding [19th Century: from French: clear-seeing, from clair, clear, from Latin clarus + voyance, from voir to see, from Latin videre] Which is a little vague, but reasonably enough associated with sight. The reason it gets tangled up with precognition is that a "clairvoyant" (3rd meaning) is a person who claims to have to power to fortell future events - in other words, a person with precognition. Don't ask me why. Probably historical reasons. > I think if you really try hard enough you can reduce almost > all varietys of psi ability down to two or three if not less - If you > really push it, the definition of telekinesis could be widened to explain > telepathy and teleportation. Well, you could probably get it down to three: telepathy, telekinesis and teleportation. Clairvoyance and precognition could come under telepathy - powers of perception. Pyrokinesis, healing, weather control and so on could come under telekinesis - manipulation of matter at a distance. I tend to stick teleportation separately from telekinesis because it isn't the manipulation of matter at a distance - it is one of: the opening and closing of a way through hyperspace; the creation of a short-lived wormhole; or instant matter-energy-matter conversion. Heck, we don't know how it *works* - we've just got names for what it *does*. One of the things that I've wondered about telekinesis is the perception required - I mean, can they perceive the molecules bonding when they mend broken glass? And if one could have such telekinetic perception, then would they be able to tell things like how thick a wall was, or if there was a hidden safe, etc? Or is that a part of clairvoyance? Things start getting tangled when one wonders about that... On the other hand, maybe one can only manipulate what one can see? (Misfits of Science - there was a telekinetic character who couldn't use her powers when she was blindfolded.) > Another ability that could be thought of as somewhat separate from others > is empathy (IMO significantly different from telepathy). Some psi stories lump empathy together with telepathy, and some keep it separate. I assume what you mean by empathy is the perception of the feelings of another, as distinct from their cognitive thoughts. > ps In the old series could all the TP project images or was it just Andrew > and John? I think they all could, but Andrew and John were especially good at it. > And what about the molecular level telekinesis. I seem to > remember Tyso (15 year old memories here. I'm not sure of their accuracy) > reassembling broken glass, but can't remember any other examples. I think it was Stephen, teaching Mike, in One Law. Or maybe it was Tyso. I forget too - though I remember the scene where the glass broke! It was in Tyso's family's caravan, but as I said, I can't remember if it was Tyso or Stephen who mended it. K.J.A. -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jeremy.rogers@aeat.co.uk (Jeremy Rogers) Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 09 Oct 1996 13:18:45 BST >I think it was Stephen, teaching Mike, in One Law. Or maybe it was >Tyso. I forget too - though I remember the scene where the glass >broke! It was in Tyso's family's caravan, but as I said, I can't >remember if it was Tyso or Stephen who mended it. Stephen teaching Tyso, and it was in Worlds Away. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 09 Oct 1996 08:55:21 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 9 Oct 1996, Ruby Red wrote: > Well, you could probably get it down to three: telepathy, telekinesis > and teleportation. Clairvoyance and precognition could come under > telepathy - powers of perception. Pyrokinesis, healing, weather > control and so on could come under telekinesis - manipulation of > matter at a distance. The TP did class healing as a form of psychokinesis - I have it in my notes, although not the episode or book the information came from. > > Another ability that could be thought of as somewhat separate from others > > is empathy (IMO significantly different from telepathy). I see telepathy as directed communication (broadly (to everyone) or narrowly (to one or more specific persons - Julian May called it "intimate" meaning that only the parties concerned were privy to it), maybe sometimes only subconciously or involuntarily directed, but directed). Empathy is a matter of sensitivity and perception. Being open to others. Probably why John was not especially empathetic (empathic?), where Elizabeth was very much so. In the TP universe, therefore, they would be separate powers. In Anne McCaffrey's stories about Dai Op Owen there were two kinds of empathy: receiving and broadcasting. Some people were one or the other, others both. Receiving was more what we traditionally refer to as empathy - sensing the emotional state of others. Broadcasting was being able to influence the emotional state of others. Very useful for riot control (incitement or dissipation). Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Web Page Again Date: 09 Oct 1996 11:58:30 -0500 (EST) As I had said before, I am working on building a web page. It is still in its early stages, but it improves daily. It can be found at: http://www.netcom.com/~jpannell/home.html If you wish to skip to SF on TV page I'm creating go to change the last section to sftv.html. Of course, I like visitors and email. Things are pretty much text only right now, but I expect it to be more (and tastefully) graphical in the near future. If you visit it, you're sure to find a few things about me that you might think are a bit odd. Now onto the business of this post. 1. I am looking for more links and info on the TP and SFTV in general. 2. If I get enough links, I may create a separate page for British SF. 3. I may expand this to another page for speculative fiction literature if I can find enough links to make it worthwhile. 4. Someone on the list (thanks!) was kind enough to point out an error in my html code. In changing a page I lost an end-quote and it screwed up my links a bit. I fixed it. But now I don't have a working link to Dreadnought's TP page any more. Can someone supply me the URL again? (hint) At this point, rather than writing original material, I am creating links to the work done by others - and likely better than my humble efforts to date. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 09 Oct 1996 13:38:19 -0500 (CDT) Jane said: >The TP did class healing as a form of psychokinesis - I have it >in my notes, although not the episode or book the information came from. Maybe you did the same thing I did- sussed it out by the fact that the special effects are the same. :) >Empathy is a matter of sensitivity and perception. Being open >to others. Probably why John was not especially empathetic (empathic?), >where Elizabeth was very much so. In the TP universe, therefore, they >would be separate powers. I think epathic is the word you're looking for, although John tends not to be very empathetic either (jaunting poor Stephen back to the cold stairs after yelling at him- OK, so he felt guilty and did if for a good reason, but still- oy, I've been listening to my roommate too much). Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 09 Oct 1996 20:37:50 -0400 > Empathy is a matter of sensitivity and perception. Being open >to others. Probably why John was not especially empathetic (empathic?), >where Elizabeth was very much so. In the TP universe, therefore, they >would be separate powers. Actually, you really don't need psi abilities to have good empathy skills. While Deanna Troi (bad ex.! I agree) could tell if a person was nervous by perceiving their emotions, a normal human could tell this if that person was sweating, or biting their nails, etc. I think empathy is in a grey area, between normal and psi abilities. And it's been a TV cliche that women are more sensitive to people's feelings than men. Amy :) AmyH3x4@aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.cyhaus.com/smoon/smoon.htm - Sailor Moon http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/default.htm - Tomorrow People http://www.cyhaus.com/camp/jupiter/default.htm - Home Page "Dreams are hopeless aspirations in hopes of comin' true" - Left Eye, TLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 09 Oct 1996 18:15:26 -0700 >I seem to remember Tyso (15 year old memories here. I'm not sure of >their accuracy) reassembling broken glass, That was Stephen in, (I think) Secret Weapon, mending Tyso's mom's crystal ball after Tyso tried to telekinetically lift it and failed. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: clairvoyance Date: 10 Oct 1996 10:37:41 -0500 (CDT) Yesterday I said: >I think epathic is the word you're looking for That should've been empathic. Sorry. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Web Pages Date: 11 Oct 1996 14:39:25 -0500 (EST) Jez wrote: >couple of weeks at Earls Court. If anyone would like me to try to >find something for them please e-mail me privately. Most of the 70s >books turn up at these events, but they are at collectors' (read >expensive) prices. Nothing guaranteed though. I am looking for any of the original series books except _Four into Three_. I would really appreciate it if *anyone* could find me a copy of them (not only Jez). John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: More Backgrounds! Date: 12 Oct 1996 13:38:34 -0400 Kerry has given me two more backgrounds to add to the web. They're available at: http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/newtp3.gif http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/bothtp2.gif Sorry it took so long Kerry! Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: More Backgrounds! Date: 12 Oct 1996 12:59:42 -0700 >http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/newtp3.gif oooo ... I like this one! >http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/bothtp2.gif This one is awfully large. Anyone happen to know what font the old series writing was in? Perhaps we could find a way to emulate it that didn't leave the darkish background in. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Blackwell Subject: Re: More Backgrounds! Date: 13 Oct 1996 09:18:59 +1100 > >http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/bothtp2.gif > > This one is awfully large. I think so too. But someone suggested checkerboarding both logos and to do that the base image has to be 4 squares. I can turn it into a jpeg which is about 10K, but so far the colours haven't looked as good. If anyone is actually interested in using it, drop me a note and I'll play with it some more and see what I can do. Kerry ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ade@eideti.com Subject: Re: More Backgrounds! Date: 12 Oct 1996 20:05:21 -0400 On Sat, 12 Oct 1996, ladyslvr@sprynet.com wrote: > >This one is awfully large. Anyone happen to know what font the old >series writing was in? Perhaps we could find a way to emulate it that >didn't leave the darkish background in. -- I have been wondering the same thing for the longest time. I have looked but never have seen it ade ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...Night is falling And it's time to frolic with our slingers that not only twirl in the air But glow in the dark as well Hey kids, you can get your own slinger by sending ten package tops of Kool-Aid soft drink mix to Kool-Aid P.O. Box six-six-six Bradley Illinois Oh (what does Micky say here?) and happiness to get a free slinger! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ade@eideti.com Subject: Re: More Backgrounds! Date: 12 Oct 1996 20:21:26 -0400 -- Like them both (if #2 was smaller) but I can barely see them they are so light. Maybe it is MY computer but I used both mosaic & Netscape to view them :( On Sat, 12 Oct 1996, AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: >Kerry has given me two more backgrounds to add to the web. They're available >at: > >http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/newtp3.gif > >http://www.cyhaus.com/tp/bothtp2.gif > >Sorry it took so long Kerry! > >Amy :) > > > ade ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...Night is falling And it's time to frolic with our slingers that not only twirl in the air But glow in the dark as well Hey kids, you can get your own slinger by sending ten package tops of Kool-Aid soft drink mix to Kool-Aid P.O. Box six-six-six Bradley Illinois Oh (what does Micky say here?) and happiness to get a free slinger! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Blackwell Subject: Re: More Backgrounds! Date: 13 Oct 1996 14:43:12 +1100 > -- Like them both (if #2 was smaller) but I can barely see them they are so > light. Maybe it is MY computer but I used both mosaic & Netscape to view them :( They need to be light to have text put on top of them or they are too distracting for the reader. If you want to use it as a logo, I have darker versions. Kerry ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: debh@skypoint.com (Deb Harrington) Subject: Re: TP Book Reviews Date: 13 Oct 1996 10:50:20 -0500 (CDT) >I have just managed to get hold of novelisations of 'The Rameses >Connection' and 'The Living Stones.' I intend to review them. What I'm >asking is has anyone on the list reviewed them yet. I was going to do >'Culex' but someone has already done that, so my review can wait. I was going to do the new series books, but there's no reason why two people couldn't do the same books. Joey debh@skypoint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smccrory@calweb.com (Selma McCrory) Subject: NetGuide Date: 13 Oct 1996 12:19:15 -0800 For those who don't follow the many guides to the web, NetGuide (the book, not the magazine) is one of the earlier ones that listed sites under various categories. It's spawned a lot of "speciality" guides, such as Star Trek, Politics, Sports, etc. Their latest is a guide to Science Fiction on the Web. It mentions three of our sites: Teleporter Take-out, Galactic Federation, and the TPFICT archive (twice - one under the series listing, and one under fan fiction), although the last one is listed with the Purdue address, due to the lag between putting the guide together and the book being published. Selma Selma McCrory * smccrory@calweb.com * selmamc@aol.com "We're peaceful. We can't wage wars, and we can't kill. Not deliberately, anyway." -Carol, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: TP Book Reviews Date: 13 Oct 1996 17:49:11 -0700 Joey sayeth: >but there's no reason why two people couldn't do the same books. AFAIC, the more reviews the better. As we all know, different people will have different opinions about the same story. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: TP Book Reviews Date: 14 Oct 1996 13:35:33 +1000 (EST) On Sun, 13 Oct 1996, Deb Harrington wrote: > I was going to do the new series books, but there's no reason why two people > couldn't do the same books. > > Joey > debh@skypoint.com I realise this, but I just thought taht it was a good idea to review the bokks that hadn't been reviewed first. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Guidelines for TPFICT! Date: 14 Oct 1996 13:59:53 +1000 (EST) Does anyone have a copy of any guidelines for the tpfict list. If I ever had them, my university has erase them on me, and I have a fanfic ready to go out. I just want to make sure I don't violate any rules. (it's over 10,000 words long, and I'm worried there might be a restriction on the size of posts, allowed in one day!) Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ade@eideti.com Subject: What a development Date: 14 Oct 1996 08:50:14 -0400 My page has been added to "the Zone" for television or something like that. I even get to add a reciprocal logo :) And at this time I don't really have a page ;) Did someone submit the pages or something? (Now I really have to get the thing back up, eh?) ade ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...Night is falling And it's time to frolic with our slingers that not only twirl in the air But glow in the dark as well Hey kids, you can get your own slinger by sending ten package tops of Kool-Aid soft drink mix to Kool-Aid P.O. Box six-six-six Bradley Illinois Oh (what does Micky say here?) and happiness to get a free slinger! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: forward, comment on Exodus Date: 14 Oct 1996 08:02:39 -0700 <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> Elsegood" ] This story seems to have a lot of promise. The author is not using overused cletes in order to get his/her point across, and I like the character development so far. Good luck. M ______________________________________________________________________ _______ Marcell J. Elsegood Elsegood@ttu.edu Hornist, occasional writer (music/lit), Latin student. Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "This will be our Zeta Sigma Chapter, Texas Tech U. reply to violence: Spring 1994 OAS,AAS,LLS! to make music more intensely, more beautifully, "Non omnes qui habent cornum sunt more devotedly, cornicines" - adapted quote from Varro than ever before." -Leonard Bernstein "Forget belief systems; forget the parameters of rational thinking as it so smugly is called, and feel, my friend, feel..." K.A.R.R. (from Knight Rider) <---- End Forwarded Message ----> ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner, Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion lists Editor, ...ad infinitum Alternative Fiction Magazine http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/magazine "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smccrory@calweb.com (Selma McCrory) Subject: New Series Quote Quiz answers Date: 15 Oct 1996 00:08:04 -0800 I apologise for posting the answers late (thanks for reminding me, John), and not replying to individual participants. If you participated and want a scored quiz back, let me know. There were six participants (Kyrie, Beth, Wendy, Amy, Sarah, and John). Here are the answers, with comments: 1. "Okay, I admit it. I'm better at grilling a cheese sandwich than a tight lipped teenager." Damon, to Frank (his assistant) in Living Stones, part 1. Damon is commenting about his lack of success in getting answers from Jade. Most of you remembered (or guessed) right that Damon was the speaker, and Stones was the story, but only two remembered who Damon was speaking to. 2. "I hate this dream! Now you stay right there. Leave me alone!" Lisa, to Adam in Origin, part 2. Lisa and Adam have/are about to meet. This was fairly easy, with most of you getting all the parts right. 3. "Security code, huh?" Megabyte, to (take your pick) Ami, the security panel, the elevator, or himself, in Monsoon Man part 3. Megabyte is about to do whatever he does to the security panel to get the elevator open. Really easy one, very obvious Megabyte line. 4. "So, you gonna blow my mind or shall I blow yours?" Adam, to Megabyte, Rameses part 4. Adam and Ami have just arrived in Felix Fry's lab, where Megabyte is poking around. Well, most of you got the *story* right, but for some reason identified this exchange as Megabyte to Adam (with the correct answer often as a second choice). This must sound like a Megabyte line. 5. "What? He's my Dad, he's supposed to say that kind of thing!" Megabyte, to Adam and Ami, in Culex Experiment part 5. Damon has just ordered the trio to stay in the car. Another easy one, with most of you identifying all parts of the quote. Ami got the most correct (Congrats!), while Beth and Wendy came in close (and, incidentally, the same right and wrong answers - are you two telepathic with each other?). I invite someone else to try their hand at a quote quiz. I had a fun time! Selma Selma McCrory * smccrory@calweb.com * selmamc@aol.com "We're peaceful. We can't wage wars, and we can't kill. Not deliberately, anyway." -Carol, The Tomorrow People ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: New Series Quote Quiz answers Date: 15 Oct 1996 13:57:14 -0500 (EST) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: web page updates Date: 15 Oct 1996 18:22:05 -0500 (CDT) I'm declaring the original series charcter guide to be in linkable condition (for those of you who haven't all ready linked to it:): http://public.carleton.edu/~epsteinb/tpchar.html The new series guide is progressing nicely, but I'm not sure exactly how many of the minor characters I should add. Please check out: http://public.carleton.edu/~epsteinb/nschar.html Please don't link to this page until it's fully operational (and somone's looked at my spelling ). Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Temesha Lynn Chatman Subject: New Series Books Date: 16 Oct 1996 17:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Hi, everyone. I'm excited because I can de-lurk and actually contribute something to the list! I have found three of the new series books (The Culex Experiment, Monsoon Man, and The Rameses Connection) at a science fiction book store in Palo Alto. I forget how much each book individually costs, but the total for the three plus shipping and handling came to about $29.85. I'm not sure how many copies they have left, but here's the contact: Future Fantasy Books 3705 El Camino Real Palo Alto, CA 94306 415-855-9771 415-855-9963 fax futfan@netcom.com http://futfan.com Take care, Temesha ******************************************************************************* Temesha Lynn Chatman '97 Princeton University http://www.princeton.edu/~tchatman ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 17 Oct 1996 22:44:12 +1000 (EST) It wouldn't surprise me if this had been discussed before but I just thought I would bring it up. What does everyone think of the following ideas about the 'break out' of Tomorrow People (particularly in the new series, but there is at least one possible case in the old). I'd better make it clear that I haven't seen the old series in a long time, and I haven't seen the new series at all yet. I have read three of the new series novelisations and I am assuming that they are fairly accurate depictions of the show. The idea is as follows. First of all, my assumptions. 1) that the abilities that a TP has are genetic in origin. That is, that there is something in their genetic structure that allows the to be manifest the powers of a Tomorrow Person. The primary evidence for this is that a) the TP are often described as 'the next stage in human evolution, and b) as being a new species, Homo Superior. Either of these factors, IMHO, would by definition indicate a genetic basis. 2) that the abilities of a TP can remain dormant. This, I believe, is self evident. None of the TP were born that way. As genetic structure is fixed at birth (actually at conception), this indicates that a period of dormancy must occur. The emergence from this dormant stage is what we call 'breaking out.' The time of break out is not fixed. Although it does seem to have some connection to puberty, there is no absolute connection to a particular stage. Examples of TP with quite different maturity levels are (old series) Elizabeth and Kenny. I am not as familiar with the new series but I have the impression that Kevin was quite a bit younger than the other TP at the time of his break out. I also believe Patricia (old series) was obviously fully mature, but as I cannot remember her in any detail, I cannot say this for certain. These are my two primary assumptions in outlining the theories below. Both of these theories investigate aspects of 'break out'. Theory 1: Proximity Theory In essence, this theory is as follows. A dormant Tomorrow Person is more likely to break out if they are in regular contact with other (active) Tomorrow People. This theory might help to explain why most of the TP in the old series were British. Examples from the new series are (I believe): Megabyte, breaks out after close contact with Kevin. (Origin) Jade, breaks out after close contact with Megabyte and Adam. (The Living Stones) From the old series: Elizabeth, after contact with Stephen. (The Blue and the Green ?) Patricia (?. I am in no way sure of this) Theory 2: Attraction Theory A dormant Tomorrow Person is likely to be attracted (unknowingly) to other Tomorrow People. That is they are likely, if given the chance, to associate with other Tomorrow People. Examples from the new series: Megabyte and Kevin (Origin) Jade to Megabyte and Adam (?. There may be a less esoteric explanation for this one, I don't know enough about the new series. I base this on the novelisation of 'The Living Stones). Ami to Kevin, Megabyte and Adam. (The Culex Experiment) From the old series: possibly Elizabeth and Stephen (very slight chance. As I remember there wasn't much choice in them being close together. Elizabeth just happened to be at the same school at the same time as Stephen was a student there. We could assume all sorts of subliminal decision making on Elizabeth's part but that is, IMHO, a big stretch.) (The Blue and The Green?) I like this theory. It makes sense to me that assuming the very limited numbers of TP on the planet and assuming that the offspring of two TP are more likely to be TP than the offspring of a 'mixed' couple, nature might have a means for bringing TP together for the purposes of procreation. I would value anyone else's opinions on these theories (Naturally, that's why I'm putting them on the list.) Please note, I am not saying that either of these theories apply in all cases, It is obvious that they do not. John and Adam had no contact with any other TP, prior to break out (as far as we know). There are several cases of TP being a long way from any other TP at the time of break out (Hsui Tai). I'm just suggesting that they may give some idea of how break out may be influenced. It also might be interesting to think of this in line with the recent discussion on whether or not you could have a baby TP. By the time of birth, a Homo Superior child of a TP will have had nine months very intimate contact with another Tomorrow Person. Add another year or two as a baby and suddenly, you could have major trouble with a teleporting toddler. Sorry to anyone who thinks the above is overly technical (you're right) but that's the way it came out. (BTW, thanks to all those people who suggested SF books concerning telepathy and other psi powers. I have just finished 'The Chrysalids' by John Wyndham, and 'Intervention' by Julian May. I recommend them to anyone who wants a good read.) Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 17 Oct 1996 18:17:23 +0300 (EET DST) Well Shaun, for someone who has such limited access to the Tomorrow people videos etc., you certanly seem have done well developing theories. In fact they have probably raised more questions with me than answers but here are afew of my thoughts. I think the psi abilities must definitely be genetic in origin. However as soon as you start talking genetics it becomes very complicated. Regarding two TP's producing children whether or not the offspring have psi abilities may not be as simple as a dominant/recessive effect. If I had to guess I would suggest that whatever genetic change has created the Tomorrow People it will breed true (i.e. 100% of offspring and desecendants are TP's as well) unless some mutation alters the vital genetic information. This would fit well with the first series idea that in a few 100 or 1000? years earth will be predominately populated by telepaths. I've tried to analyse this further ie what if a TP and nonTp had children but there are so many variables involved in genetics (and I'm certainly not that knowledgable about it myself) Is there a geneticist in the house? Several times the Tp's have referred to themselves as the next stage of man. Does anyone know how this is justified? I think such categorisation of different families of man is quite subjective. I assume that for a new family to be made there must be significant (physical?) differences from the other families, so I guess if you describe psi abilities as a "physical" attribute then they certainly are the next stage of humankind (I guess this is the more PC term). I, myself would liken the breaking out to a form of mental puberty. In humans, puberty can occur over a wide time range. I think in a few cases puberty happened as early as 6 years old and as late as the late teens, possibly even into the twenties. So the development of TP abilities could be a form of mental puberty unconnected to physical puberty. Following this line of thought I would suggest that the possibility of fully functioning TPs being born is not viable (thank goodness). As for Shauns two theories I would go for a variation of the "attraction" theory. Like in physical puberty, I would suggest that TP abilities gradually develop, perhaps on and off, like a boys voice breaking (and what a nightmare that can be). During this stage potential TP's might be subconsciously drawn towards "active" TPs either physically or through dreams. With regards to the way most of the TP's in the new series broke out however, I would suggest that a massive hormone/adrenalin surge for example could bring about an instantaneous "breakout" allowing the TP to remove themselves from danger. Maybe this is has the potential to be temporary in some cases unless an active TP shows them how to do it again- for example Lisa and Megabyte needed to be shown how to teleport after their initial crisis, whereas Adam and Kevin seemed able to adapt to their abilities a bit more easily. For anyone who has manged to read this far- Yes I do understand they were two childrens TV series and that they were not really designed to withstand intense analysis. The fact that all the Tomorrow People were English born (?) first series and English speaking in the second series was probably necessary in order to keep the stories relatively simple. This brings to mind the question what would happen if a non-english speaking person "broke out"? On the tv the TP's all seem to communicate telepathically in words (english). I don't think it has been shown whether they can relate concepts etc. telepathically. This would be interesting. Try this experiment - Try and describe to yourself in your mind how to carry out a simple procedure (e.g. making a cup of tea.) Do you "speak" mentally to yourself? Try and do it without. Do you picture yourself doing it? Of course you probably show yourself using your kettle in your kitchen etc. This instinctive use of your own personalised objects might be more confusing than helpful. Of course some form of empathy would be useful in relating to someone else but I don't think this would be a very effective way to communicate concepts. Personally I do think it could be done, but it would take a total rethink of how one thinks. Well, my "psi abilities" suggest that you are know completely bored if not asleep in front of your computer so I guess I should sign off. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 17 Oct 1996 19:50:58 +0100 In message Michael Edmonds writes: > Several times the Tp's have referred to themselves as the next stage of > man. Does anyone know how this is justified? I think such categorisation > of different families of man is quite subjective. I assume that for a new > family to be made there must be significant (physical?) differences from > the other families, so I guess if you describe psi abilities as a > "physical" attribute then they certainly are the next stage of humankind > (I guess this is the more PC term). There was an article in the UK TV Times in 1973 where Roger Price predicted that "we'll have lost our tonsils and appendix and at least one toe and we'll be more beautiful because we'll have learned to live in peace and harmony". Hmmm ... > I, myself would liken the breaking out to a form of mental puberty. In > humans, puberty can occur over a wide time range. I think in a few cases > puberty happened as early as 6 years old and as late as the late teens, > possibly even into the twenties. So the development of TP abilities could > be a form of mental puberty unconnected to physical puberty. > Following this line of thought I would suggest that the possibility of > fully functioning TPs being born is not viable (thank goodness). Breaking out was originally associated with puberty, but this had to be bent to account for Elizabeth. > The fact that all the Tomorrow People were English born (?) Hsui Tai wasn't English and neither was Andrew. Indeed Hsui Tai couldn't speak English really ... > first series > and English speaking in the second series was probably necessary in order > to keep the stories relatively simple. This brings to mind the question > what would happen if a non-english speaking person "broke out"? On the tv > the TP's all seem to communicate telepathically in words (english). I > don't think it has been shown whether they can relate concepts etc. > telepathically. The really ghastly story "The Giant Mothers of Matra" in "Three In Three" indicated that telepaths can understand all languages by use of telepathy. Unless of course it is one of those really *annoying* days when your powers are on the blink. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 17 Oct 1996 14:23:39 -0500 (CDT) Ok, things I'm more confident on first, but this means switching from person to person (I spent too long staring at Biology journals this morning, so bear with me): Michael said (out of order): >Is there a geneticist in the house? I'm a bio major taking upper (200) level Genetics this term. Will I do? :) >Regarding >two TP's producing children whether or not the offspring have psi >abilities may not be as simple as a dominant/recessive effect. There's a lot more than dominant/recessive effect. For instance, more than one gene is most likely the culprit (I can't believe there's only *one* protein that can cause a person to all do THAT!). Then you have interactions between genes, like epistasis, where one gene can mask the effects of another (like it doesn't matter what color pigment a dog is manufacturing for its fur if the pigment can't get into the fur). Also, the _location_ of the gene is important. If there's special energy production genes for teleportaion/telekinesis (I would think there would have to be), then the genes could be located in the mitochondria rather than the nucleus of the cell. If that were the case, then it would only matter who the mother was as the sperm cell is nothing but some DNA and a flagella (well, a little more, but the egg has all the mitochondria). As for true breeding, well, I don't think I'd even want to hazard a guess- maybe if I get into Molecular Biology for next term, you can ask me in March. (I've been wondering if I should bring this up in a story sometime.....) >Several times the Tp's have referred to themselves as the next stage of >man. Does anyone know how this is justified? I think such categorisation >of different families of man is quite subjective. Speciation is quite subjective. Unless you want to try interbreeding a TP and a Sap and see if you get a reproductivly viable individual (reproductive isolation is one of the the tests for speciation), I'd say it's also sort of unanswerable. If not Homo superior, then Homo sapien psi (they're definitely a different subspecies). I should mention I read the H. sapien psi bit in one of TC Kirkham's articles about the KTS TP universe (you don't want to know, trust me). Hmm, my back-up for Molecular is Evolution, so I can definetly get back to y'all about SOMETHING next term.... >what would happen if a non-english speaking person "broke out"? Well, in the original series, they could interpret the pattern of their brain waves and all the telepaths would understand each other perfectly. (Too bad this couldn't work on Misako Koba.:) OK, now on to comment about what Shaun said/pondered: Yes, Kevin was younger than the others, by at least a year or two. And Tricia was most definitely older than most break-outs- Liz and John's age at least (she broke out a little over a year after Liz did). I agree with the proximity theory, but it's probably more of an expedient (sp?) than a requirement. Now the attraction theory, on some levels, makes sense. What other reason would Mike have to trust John even in the slightest in "One Law"? But there is a point I have to differ on: >I like this theory. It makes sense to me that assuming the very limited >numbers of TP on the planet and assuming that the offspring of two TP >are more likely to be TP than the offspring of a 'mixed' couple, nature >might have a means for bringing TP together for the purposes of >procreation. *childish mode on* Ewwww! *childish mode off* You're forgetting the incest clause. In both series, the relationships seemed to be more brother/sister than anything else. I mean, please! (OK, maybe Mike and Hsui Tai, but I don't really think so.) Liz and John, while they were both parenting the others, were definitely more friends or brother/sister than romantically inclined. (It could've gone either way until the last season, admittedly, but....) And as for Jade's crush on Megabyte, I think she's more likely to get over it than not. That's my well, $2 worth, I think! (A little long for two cents.:) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 17 Oct 1996 14:28:04 -0500 (CDT) This one's short, I promise: Jez said: >The really ghastly story "The Giant Mothers of Matra" in "Three In >Three" indicated that telepaths can understand all languages And "A Rift in Time", which was an episode and good. (That's how they understood the Romans.) >Unless of course it is one of those really *annoying* >days when your powers are on the blink. Are you sure it's only days? Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 17 Oct 1996 22:33:06 +0100 In message <01IAR3VIJRQO8WWXTM@carleton.edu> Tigger writes: > This one's short, I promise: > Jez said: > >The really ghastly story "The Giant Mothers of Matra" in "Three In > >Three" indicated that telepaths can understand all languages > And "A Rift in Time", which was an episode and good. (That's how they > understood the Romans.) And conveniently in "A Rift in Time" they lose all their powers *except* this one. Wasn't that lucky. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 17 Oct 1996 16:42:33 -0700 Shaun stated two theories about the TP: >Theory 1: Proximity Theory I'm a fan of this one, myself. I like the idea that Latent TP abilities could somehow be triggered by exposure to an active TP. (contagious psi powers? ) Really, tho, I think of it more as a nature/nurture type of arugment. Both Proxmity and Attraction are/could be involved in the process. To which degree each one is (or isn't), is undeterminable. I'm not a mother, but the idea of a teleporting toddler still frightens me. It's also incredibly dangerous to the survival of a specious. Think of what toddlers manage to get into without the ability to teleport. If they could, I don't think any of them would survive to breeding age. Even if it did, thae'd probably be an only child. Perhaps TPness has different levels of latency. You either do or do not have the potential, as of conception. The potential is then activated by something to do with puberty. Some people finish breaking out on their own. Some start to and fail (read die). Some never start, for whatever reason. This latter one could be corrected via one or both of the proximity/attraction theories. Of course, TP ability may have nothing to do with puberty, per se. It may have more to do with the development of the mind. A toddler, for example, who didn't yet possess Object Permanence could hardly teleport since there'd be no place to teleport to. The human brain (last I heard in Psychology 101 a couple of years ago) doesn't become fully capable of abstract thought until about age 11. It may take this level of thought development before it becomes possible to realise TP potential. Which begs the question of whether a mentally-handicapped person could be TP. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Blackwell Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 13:13:37 +1100 > I'm not a mother, but the idea of a teleporting toddler still > frightens me. It's also incredibly dangerous to the survival of a > specious. Think of what toddlers manage to get into without the > ability to teleport. If they could, I don't think any of them would > survive to breeding age. Even if it did, thae'd probably be an only > child. I can't remember the details, but isn't there something addressing this a bit in one of the stories in Anne McCaffrey's "To Ride Pegasus"? It's the story where the supposedly latent wife turns out to have a very specific TK talent and she's been fiddling with her and her husband's DNA to get the child she wants. Said child is a very strong telepath and the parents have to put some kind of blocks on her to keep it under control until she's old enough to supply control on her own. Or am totally misremembering this? Kerry ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 12:28:06 +1000 (EST) This is the first time I have tried to reply to a large number of posts at once, (my mailer doesn't like it). Here goes. Michael wrote > Several times the Tp's have referred to themselves as the next stage of > man. Does anyone know how this is justified? I think such categorisation > of different families of man is quite subjective. I assume that for a new > family to be made there must be significant (physical?) differences from > the other families, so I guess if you describe psi abilities as a > "physical" attribute then they certainly are the next stage of humankind > (I guess this is the more PC term). The only basis I know for this (besides sheer arrogance (-8 ) is a statement in the old series novelisation, 'The Visitor' where it says that John, Carol (and maybe Kenny) were told by another race (the Sophists?) that they were Homo Superior, the next stage in human evolution. I haven't got the book here, I've lent it to someone (I might be too trusting!) > Like in physical puberty, I would suggest that TP abilities gradually > develop, perhaps on and off, like a boys voice breaking (and what a > nightmare that can be). During this stage potential TP's might be > subconsciously drawn towards "active" TPs either physically or through > dreams. I like this idea personally. > With regards to the way most of the TP's in the new series broke out > however, I would suggest that a massive hormone/adrenalin surge for > example could > bring about an instantaneous "breakout" allowing the TP to remove > themselves from danger. Maybe this is has the potential to be temporary > in some cases unless an active TP shows them how to do it again- for > example Lisa and Megabyte needed to be shown how to teleport after their > initial crisis, whereas Adam and Kevin seemed able to adapt to their > abilities a bit more easily. Again, I like this idea, especially the part about the 'adrenaline surge' > For anyone who has manged to read this far- Yes I do understand they were > two childrens TV series and that they were not really designed to > withstand intense analysis. But isn't it fun! And I do this to every show I watch (Tomorrow People, Highlander, Star Trek, and even the Brady Bunch. I've been told I have a tendency to overintellectualise) > The fact that all the Tomorrow People were English born (?) first series > and English speaking in the second series was probably necessary in order > to keep the stories relatively simple. This brings to mind the question > what would happen if a non-english speaking person "broke out"? On the tv > the TP's all seem to communicate telepathically in words (english). I > don't think it has been shown whether they can relate concepts etc. > telepathically. This would be interesting. Try this experiment - Try and > describe to yourself in your mind how to carry out a simple procedure > (e.g. making a cup of tea.) Do you "speak" mentally to yourself? Try and > do it without. Do you picture yourself doing it? Of course you probably > show yourself using your kettle in your kitchen etc. This instinctive use > of your own personalised objects might be more confusing than helpful. > Of course some form of empathy would be useful in relating to someone else > but I don't think this would be a very effective way to communicate > concepts. Personally I do think it could be done, but it would take a > total rethink of how one thinks. Obviously the fact that the majority of the TP are British (old) or English speaking (new) was done for reasons of TV convenience. As to the second point, I have been involved in a lot of psych experiments (as a guinea pig - I spent Wednesday afternoon wired up, getting my brain waves measured). I think in concepts and never in words. If I want to think in words, I have to really work at it. The experiments have found that while conceptual thinking is normally much faster, thinking based on speech patterns is a lot easier to communicate to ther people. Jeremy Rogers wrote: > There was an article in the UK TV Times in 1973 where Roger Price > predicted that "we'll have lost our tonsils and appendix and at least > one toe and we'll be more beautiful because we'll have learned to > live in peace and harmony". Well, if personal beauty is a requirement for being a TP, that means I'm out. )-8 > The really ghastly story "The Giant Mothers of Matra" in "Three In > Three" indicated that telepaths can understand all languages by use > of telepathy. Unless of course it is one of those really *annoying* > days when your powers are on the blink. In Julian May's 'Intervention' which I have just finished reading they have a interesting take on language and telepathy. It suggests that while telepathic messages may be in particular language, it might be possible to read the 'thoughts behind the message' in order to render some sort of translation. Tigger wrote: > Now the attraction theory, on some levels, makes sense. What other reason > would Mike have to trust John even in the slightest in "One Law"? But there is > a point I have to differ on: Also an attraction theory may indicate why the old TP were so willing to follow John, and the new series TP Adam. We know that John is a natural leader. This could be enhanced by the fact that the others trust him. > You're forgetting the incest clause. In both series, the relationships seemed > to be more brother/sister than anything else. I mean, please! (OK, maybe Mike > and Hsui Tai, but I don't really think so.) > Liz and John, while they were both parenting the others, were definitely more > friends or brother/sister than romantically inclined. (It could've gone either > way until the last season, admittedly, but....) > And as for Jade's crush on Megabyte, I think she's more likely to get over it > than not. Sure, I'm not suggesting that any of the TP in either series are 'likely to have sexual knowledge of each other' (that phrase comes from a Nun who taught sex ed when I was at school). But for the survival of the species, it is essential that procreation does occur. This means that the TP must be able to get together and to get along. I'm no biologist, at all, everytime I think of genetics, I think of Mendelsohn (and wasn't he a composer - I'm not sure why I think of him), but if the TP are a separate species, doesn't that mean that they can only reproduce with other TP. It is essential, due to their small numbers, that some form of attraction exists (or maybe a rota system (-8 ). W. Loraine said: > Really, tho, I think of it more as a nature/nurture type of arugment. > Both Proxmity and Attraction are/could be involved in the process. To > which degree each one is (or isn't), is undeterminable. Why not! Let's combine the theories. They seem compatible to me. Maybe for attraction to work, proximity is needed and vice versa. > I'm not a mother, but the idea of a teleporting toddler still > frightens me. It's also incredibly dangerous to the survival of a > specious. Think of what toddlers manage to get into without the > ability to teleport. If they could, I don't think any of them would > survive to breeding age. Even if it did, thae'd probably be an only > child. The principle of 'survival of the fittest' may therefore indicate that the genes for those TP who break out later, become more common, and so the average age of break out may increase over time. > Perhaps TPness has different levels of latency. You either do or do > not have the potential, as of conception. The potential is then > activated by something to do with puberty. Some people finish > breaking out on their own. Some start to and fail (read die). Some > never start, for whatever reason. This latter one could be corrected > via one or both of the proximity/attraction theories. And again, obviously the genese of those who survive are added to the gene pool, thus increasing the strength and advisability of the species. > Of course, TP ability may have nothing to do with puberty, per se. It > may have more to do with the development of the mind. A toddler, for > example, who didn't yet possess Object Permanence could hardly > teleport since there'd be no place to teleport to. The human brain > (last I heard in Psychology 101 a couple of years ago) doesn't become > fully capable of abstract thought until about age 11. It may take > this level of thought development before it becomes possible to > realise TP potential. Which begs the question of whether a > mentally-handicapped person could be TP. But even these principles may allow a difference in age, and one that disturbs me. By using the term intelligence, I am referring to somethin along the lines of IQ. A TP who gained such concepts as 'abstract conceptualisation' at say, age 7, might then break out too early and consequently be less likely to survive. Their genes would be lost. The more intelligent TP would therefore be less likely to produce offspring, and thus the average IQ would, over time, drop (assuming there is some sort of genetic link to intelligence.) Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theorie Date: 18 Oct 1996 11:03:25 -0500 (EST) Dreadnought (whose name I think I misspelt on my web page) wrote: >...be able to get together and to get along. I'm no biologist, at all, >everytime I think of genetics, I think of Mendelsohn (and wasn't he a >composer - I'm not sure why I think of him), but if the TP are a separate Yes, Mendelssohn was a composer. I think you think of him because you're really thinking of Gregor Mendel, who was a geneticist. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 17:19:10 +0300 (EET DST) Shaun, you intellectualise the Brady Bunch? Good grief. Still I must admit it is fun to analyse things. Once you read the rest of the Julian May books you will probably find enough to analyse for days on end. I have already done this with another member of the TP discussion group a year or two ago. I find it fascinating that you think in concepts most of the time. I always seem to think in words (written or oral) and only really use concepts when I am thinking in terms of molecules (I'm a chemist). >Sure, I'm not suggesting that any of the TP in either series are 'likely >to have sexual knowledge of each other' (that phrase comes from a Nun who >taught sex ed when I was at school). But for the survival of the species, >it is essential that procreation does occur. This means that the TP must >be able to get together and to get along. Here I would have to disagree. I'm sure that the TP would be able to reproduce with nonTP humans and still produce TP offspring. >everytime I think of genetics, I think of Mendelsohn Genetics = Mendel > but if the TP are a separate >species, doesn't that mean that they can only reproduce with other TP. I would categorise them as a subspecies (if thats the correct term) and assume that they can still breed with the rest of human kind. Kerry B. wrote >I can't remember the details, but isn't there something addressing >this a bit in one of the stories in Anne McCaffrey's "To Ride >Pegasus"? It's the story where the supposedly latent wife turns out >to have a very specific TK talent and she's been fiddling with her >and her husband's DNA to get the child she wants. Said child is a >very strong telepath and the parents have to put some kind of blocks >on her to keep it under control until she's old enough to supply >control on her own. Sounds spot on to me Kerry. By the way what was the name of that test that is used to determine how you learn things best. Shaun (and anyone else) might find it quite interesting. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 09:07:59 -0600 (MDT) I'm going to delete huge parts of this message (aren't you glad) because I know you've all read it before (sometimes twice). On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Shaun Owen Hately wrote: > > Like in physical puberty, I would suggest that TP abilities gradually > > develop, perhaps on and off, like a boys voice breaking (and what a > > nightmare that can be). During this stage potential TP's might be > > subconsciously drawn towards "active" TPs either physically or through > > dreams. > I like this idea personally. So do I, and it fits quite well with the pattern of breakout in many of the TP. Quite a few of them had the use of some part of their abilities before they officially broke out - most usually telepathy (which was how the other TP found them), but in Mike's case, psychokinesis. > Tigger wrote: > > You're forgetting the incest clause. In both series, the relationships seemed > > to be more brother/sister than anything else. I mean, please! (OK, maybe Mike > > and Hsui Tai, but I don't really think so.) I do think so - Mike and Hsui Tai, I mean, not the others. Probably not until they'd grown up a bit more, but of all of them, those are the two I can see getting together. Liz and John, no. I also see them as brother/sister and or/best friends. Which isn't to say it couldn't develop into more later, but I don't think so. It does raise interesting issues about the likelihood of more casual relationships developing with non-TP. Julian May has something in one of the Hydra books about the relationship between lovers who are both telepathic being deeper/more intense than between two non-telepaths or between a telepath and a non-telepath because the communication/sharing is on a deeper level. That makes a lot of sense to me. Within the time period of the series this lot probably won't have figured that out yet (unless Carol has been indiscreet ;)). And as Shaun says, they are going to have to start procreating sooner or later, and if they can't produce viable offspring with non-TP (although I think that's not likely. It depends on the extent of the mutation, but think of all the genetic diseases that don't stop the carriers from reproducing and passing on the disease - there's hemophilia in my family and before I had kids I had some genetic testing done to find out whether or not I was a carrier, not that it would have stopped me having kids (and not that if I had learned that I was carrying a hemophiliac child I would do anything about it), but just so we could be prepared) they're going to have to do it with each other. HOWEVER: we're postulating that the TP gene(s) are present in more people than actually break out, which would also argue that viable offspring with non-TP are more likely than not, or there'd be an awful lot of people producing mules. > > Of course, TP ability may have nothing to do with puberty, per se. It > > may have more to do with the development of the mind. A toddler, for > > example, who didn't yet possess Object Permanence could hardly > > teleport since there'd be no place to teleport to. The human brain > > (last I heard in Psychology 101 a couple of years ago) doesn't become > > fully capable of abstract thought until about age 11. It may take > > this level of thought development before it becomes possible to > > realise TP potential. Which begs the question of whether a > > mentally-handicapped person could be TP. I think that there must be a combination of factors influencing breakout - cognitive development being one, and maybe some kind of mental flexibility would be another, and physical factors like puberty might play a lesser role, - that might explain why it is so much more difficult/dangerous for older or younger than the optimum range to break out (eg. Kenny on the one end of the scale and Elizabeth and Tricia on the other end). External factors (ie. need or danger) would also come into play. > But even these principles may allow a difference in age, and one that > disturbs me. By using the term intelligence, I am referring to somethin > along the lines of IQ. A TP who gained such concepts as 'abstract > conceptualisation' at say, age 7, might then break out too early and > consequently be less likely to survive. Their genes would be lost. The > more intelligent TP would therefore be less likely to produce offspring, > and thus the average IQ would, over time, drop (assuming there is some > sort of genetic link to intelligence.) I think, though, that this is where the tendency of the TP to band together and protect each other would come in. A TP who broke out at age 7 would be making a lot of noise (believe me, even very smart 7 year olds can't help it) and would attract attention fairly quickly, unless s/he was very remote from the other TP (bearing in mind the more limited range of the old series TP without TIM's boosting effect). The older TP would be on hand fairly quickly to protect the kid. Sorry, I've quoted too much, but I couldn't decide what to leave out. I've been saving all these posts and I'm going to try to collate the results into some kind of logical document. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Donna Kirking Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 10:05:09 -0700 In McCaffrey's book "Damia" there is a teleporting toddler, and she wrecks so much havoc on the station she lives on that her parents finally send her off to relatives on a planet for "fostering." She is a danger both to herself and to the entire station. It is not McCaffrey's best book, and I don't really recommend it, but there it is. At 01:13 PM 10/18/96 +1100, you wrote: >I can't remember the details, but isn't there something addressing >this a bit in one of the stories in Anne McCaffrey's "To Ride >Pegasus"? >Or am totally misremembering this? > >Kerry Donna Kirking El Cerrito, CA, USA dkirking@earthlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Blackwell Subject: Ways of Learning (was Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories) Date: 19 Oct 1996 08:56:42 +1100 Michael wrote: > Sounds spot on to me Kerry. > By the way what was the name of that test that is used to determine how > you learn things best. Shaun (and anyone else) might find it quite > interesting. This is possibly getting very off topic, but I'll answer the question and anyone interested can email me about it. I have a questionaire that asks a number of questions that allows people to find out how they learn best. Are you visual (diagrams etc), aural (by listening), reading/writing (obvious really) or kinesetic (by doing)? It's quite fascinating as a way of understanding why you understand some things better than others. I'm strongly read/write and I have to really concentrate to watch TV or listen to lectures (although I'm okay if I'm writing down notes). Anyway, sorry we're getting off topic. Email me if you're interested. Kerry ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 16:24:13 -0500 (CDT) Much shorter stuff to go through this time, I think, but: Michael said: >I would categorise them as a subspecies (if thats the correct term) and >assume that they can still breed with the rest of human kind. It is, and I think so too. It would require a really serious mutation- like a translocation (chromosomes or parts thereof sticking together) or a missing/extra set of/single chromosome to produce reproductive isolation from the Saps that quickly. (Which ties into) Ade said something about the extent of mutations. Even large scale duplications/additions/deletions don't make an individual completely sterile (there are conditions where they are semi-sterile because of regions where cross-overs simply can't happen). I'm not going to attempt to explain the molecular mechanics, though, I'm just not that good at ASCII art! :) Moving right along, Jane said: >I do think so - Mike and Hsui Tai [getting romanically/physically involved], I >mean, not the others. Probably not until they'd grown up a bit more, but of >all of them, those are the two I can see getting together. Well, at least I know it didn't come out of thin air. I doubt it would've happened in the series ever, though. >Julian May has something in one of the Hydra books about the >relationship between lovers who are both telepathic being deeper/more >intense than between two non-telepaths or between a telepath and a >non-telepath because the communication/sharing is on a deeper level. That >makes a lot of sense to me. It's a typical thing in "Psi-Fi" as (I think it was Michael) called it awhile back. JMS has implied it on B5, and Anne McGaffery used it pretty liberally from "The Rowan" on. (Should we be talking about this on list? I mean, there might be little kids reading.:) >Within the time period of the series this lot >probably won't have figured that out yet (unless Carol has been indiscreet > ;)). I'm sure Kenny would've bashed her over the head with a pillow long before John needed to lecture her..... (I think I've been OD'ing on New Series lately, sorry.) OK, I *think* that's about it. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 16:23:24 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > It would require a really serious mutation- like a > translocation (chromosomes or parts thereof sticking together) or a > missing/extra set of/single chromosome to produce reproductive isolation from > the Saps that quickly. Well, and look at dogs - incredible variation of size and shape, and no problem with reproductive isolation (actually, the humane societies would probably rather there was a problem - it would cut down the number of unwanted animals they destroy if the mutts couldn't reproduce). Nobody got into whether Carol's son is "viable" in a reproductive sense, given his non-Earth born (albeit humanoid) father, but I think there's no question that the TP are not sufficiently different from non-TP that there would be any problem with the offspring of a "mixed" marriage. If the the non-TP partner had the right genes but was latent, I think that close a relationship would certainly push them into breaking out (proximity theory), which, even if they were outside the optimum range for breaking out, probably would be less of a problem for them than for someone like Elizabeth who was unprepared for what was happening to her and dead scared. I am assuming that a TP would not try to conceal his or her abilities from a non-TP partner if the relationship progressed as far as marriage, so the non-TP would know what they were missing and what to expect. > It's a typical thing in "Psi-Fi" as (I think it was Michael) called it awhile > back. JMS has implied it on B5, and Anne McGaffery used it pretty liberally > from "The Rowan" on. (Should we be talking about this on list? I mean, there > might be little kids reading.:) Keep it clinical. Lots of euphemisms and no heavy breathing allowed. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Break Out Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 17:11:56 -0700 Kerry sayeth: >It's the story where the supposedly latent wife turns out to have a >very specific TK talent and she's been fiddling with her and her >husband's DNA to get the child she wants. I'd say you remembered the story pretty well. In this case, the parents had the ability to protect the child from herself. Unless the TP-child in question had TP parents with similar abilities, everyone would have a major problem. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 17:11:48 -0700 Shaun sayeth: >disturbs me. By using the term intelligence, I am referring to >something along the lines of IQ. A TP who gained such concepts as >'abstract conceptualisation' at say, age 7, might then break out too >early and consequently be less likely to survive. If I remember my psych classes right (someone please correct me if I'm not), Intelligence (IQ) has little to do with mental development. The Intelligence as tested by modern IQ tests (I've taken several to help out a friend) mostly deals with long and short term recall, and the ability to maniuplate and predict the manipulation of shapes. The development of object permanence and abstract thought, for example, has more to do with the physical development of the brain than how much knowledge one has packed into it. So a super-intelligent 7 year old would still have the same brain fuctions as a 7 year old with average intelligence. They'd have better recall, and faster conscious access to their knowledge, but that's about all. Assuming, of course, that I'm not totally wrong -- which is a distinct possiblity. :) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Blackwell Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 13:50:02 +1100 The impression I get from the discussion so far is that we're leaning towards something at a genetic level (a cluster of genes perhaps) that is inducible by a number of outside factors giving a combination of nature and nurture. Drawing on my now hazy biochemical knowledge, genes are certainly inducible, and I don't see why a cascade effect isn't possible, kind of like the blood clotting cascade where a tiny event (a small cut or scratch) induces a whole series of proteins to be produced each in a larger amount that the one before (I think). So perhaps a small effect can induce the first gene, that gene product induces translation of the next one and so on and so on. So the original trigger could be something small. A rush of adrenaline in a particular circumstance (life threatening is the case we've seen), or perhaps the proximity to other TPs means there is a TK effect that affects that first inducible gene, but without the adrenaline rush it works more slowly, producing the first indication of powers, and an adrenaline rush following that can swiftly finish the process (as seen with Jade). I'm just making this up as I type, but I think some of it sounds plausible. You are, of course, free to disagree. :) Kerry ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Ways of Learning (was Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories) Date: 19 Oct 1996 11:27:20 +1000 (EST) On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Kerry Blackwell wrote: > This is possibly getting very off topic, but I'll answer the question > and anyone interested can email me about it. > > I have a questionaire that asks a number of questions that allows > people to find out how they learn best. Are you visual (diagrams > etc), aural (by listening), reading/writing (obvious really) or > kinesetic (by doing)? It's quite fascinating as a way of > understanding why you understand some things better than others. I'm > strongly read/write and I have to really concentrate to watch TV or > listen to lectures (although I'm okay if I'm writing down notes). I am very interested in this test of which you speak. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 22:26:47 -0500 (CDT) Lots of stuff to comment on: Jane said: >I am assuming that a TP would not try to conceal >his or her abilities from a non-TP partner if the relationship progressed >as far as marriage, so the non-TP would know what they were missing and >what to expect. How could they maintain an open/honest/healthy relationship WITHOUT telling them? Well, I'd assume they couldn't anyway...... Kerry said: >The impression I get from the discussion so far is that we're leaning >towards something at a genetic level (a cluster of genes perhaps) >that is inducible by a number of outside factors giving a combination >of nature and nurture. This is true of most genes. Espescially for more hazy things- like where the heck these special powers are coming from. As for genes being inducible, well, humans sometimes take hormonal or pheremonal cues from each other- for instance women who live in close proximity to each other tend to, um, shall we say "cycle" together (is that clinical enough, Jane?:). It's possible that TP emit some sort of pheremone that draws them to each other and starts activating the genes. Heck, if bacterial metabolism genes can be induced by their gene product's target why the heck not? And I thought the fact that I found a way to use the research I'm doing in Micro for a TP story was scary.... (And there's no way to tell you what it is without spoiling the story, so you're just all gonna have to wait.) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 20:45:40 -0700 Beth asketh: >How could they maintain an open/honest/healthy relationship WITHOUT >telling them? Well, I'd assume they couldn't anyway...... One couldn't have an open/honest/healthy relationship, but that doesn't stop people from trying *anyway* with stupider secrets. I'd imagine telling someone about your TP powers would be like revealing any secret identity, or equivalent. Do you wait until after the wedding? What if the partner can't/won't accept you? Do you tell before the wedding? What if the wedding doesn't happen then for reason (not necessarily related to the ability to teleport)? ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kyrie Daniels" Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 21:49:21 -0300 Wendy writes: > I'd > imagine telling someone about your TP powers would be like revealing > any secret identity, or equivalent. Do you wait until after the > wedding? What if the partner can't/won't accept you? Do you tell > before the wedding? What if the wedding doesn't happen then for > reason (not necessarily related to the ability to teleport)? So many questions...but I will say, in my own personal effort to allow Selma to respond as well to you (heh heh), that this can pose a problem. After listening to my seriously involved characters discuss commitment and struggle with the right way to explain their unique situations to each other, I've decided on a possible solution for TPs and other characters in similar sticky situations. It'll involve a mini-cassette player with a recording of a generic, all-purpose explanation of their species and/or situation perfect for all occasions. The only catch is I'm not allowing any potential TP breakouts to have one for any other circumstances because knowing my luck they'll break out, end up in the ocean, and ruin the tape after completely forgetting the spiel. :) Kyrie Daniels - http://www.dnai.com/~kyrie/Fanfic.htm "Well, it's obvious to everyone on the list that you are Evil Incarnate." -- Ed Hall, who obviously knows me a little *too* well. Must be a Sliders deity thing. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 18 Oct 1996 23:11:21 -0600 (MDT) On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 ladyslvr@sprynet.com wrote: > One couldn't have an open/honest/healthy relationship, but that > doesn't stop people from trying *anyway* with stupider secrets. I'd > imagine telling someone about your TP powers would be like revealing > any secret identity, or equivalent. Do you wait until after the > wedding? What if the partner can't/won't accept you? Do you tell > before the wedding? What if the wedding doesn't happen then for > reason (not necessarily related to the ability to teleport)? Yes, it is easy for the outsider to suggest that honesty is the best policy, and that if a potential spouse can't accept you even if you're different then you're better off without that person, but when you get emotions and hormones and all that messy stuff involved, common sense goes out the window. And I expect most of the TP have too many scruples (or aren't devious enough) to tell the loved one and then use psychohypnosis to wipe their memory or prevent them from telling anyone else if it doesn't work out :) A TP trying not to tell a non-TP partner this secret would have to be not using his or her powers at all, or hardly at all. Otherwise, it would be far too easy to forget and reach for the salt with the mind instead of the hand. Imagine the stress of having to conciously suppress a whole part of oneself, not just in public, but also in private. It would be like being married to an illiterate and having always to pretend you couldn't read. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 Art Director, _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 11:17:17 +0300 (EET DST) >Yes, it is easy for the outsider to suggest that honesty is the best >policy, and that if a potential spouse can't accept you even if you're >different then you're better off without that person, but when you get >emotions and hormones and all that messy stuff involved, common sense >goes >out the window. And I expect most of the TP have too many scruples (or >aren't devious enough). I really have to agree with this one. By the time someone decided they should reveal their abilities to a potential mate, I would assume the relationship would have developed to such a level that the mix of emotions, possiblity of rejection etc. would make it a really tricky situation. And how exactly would you do it? Make a big deal out of it? or just casually levitate the salt shaker? >A TP trying not to tell a non-TP partner this secret would have to be not >using his or her powers at all, or hardly at all. Otherwise, it would be >far too easy to forget and reach for the salt with the mind instead of >the hand. I have to disagree a little with this. I think that with such abilities, their lives are on the line. That is a great incentive to keep their abilities under strict control. And even if they only let a few people know about them sooner or later that information will spread (human nature). Sure, there could be one or two slip ups. One thing about the new series is that I think they are sometimes a little bit careless, not checking if anyone is watching. Although I guess under life threatening circumstances they have no choice. (Megabyte teleporting in and out of that crowded lift in Monsoon Man). Having said all that, sooner all later their abilities could become too instinctive especially if they spend a lot of their time around each other. (I think I am starting to see your point. Reminds me of the People stories). Also I assume their value for human life could cause many tricky moments. Assume Adam (healing abilities intact) has to choose between letting someone die or revealing his abilities. Or that Kevin has to choose between teleporting critically injured people in front of a TV crew, or let them die. I guess that's why a lot of us like writing about the TP: there are so many possibilities. Now you've got me thinking. Think of the possible scenarios of humankind, in general, finding out about the TP's. There are so many possibilities! My best guess would be that they would have to go into hiding. Mind you at least their teleporting abilities would help, unlike the telepaths/etc. in stories such as Intervention, the Foundation trilogy, and heaps of other books I can't remember the names of. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 09:50:26 -0700 Kyrie sayeth: >The only catch is I'm not allowing any potential TP breakouts to have >one for any other circumstances because knowing my luck they'll break >out, end up in the ocean, and ruin the tape after completely >forgetting the spiel. :) Sooo... Kyrie finally delurks and all she has to say is something I just suggested off-list. Don't be fooled, folks, into thinking this is an original thought :) Better watch yerself, girl. People might think you're trying to break your trend of getting mentioned on this list more times than you actually post. :) Of course, she does have a point. I guess we'll have to equip all potential TP with waterproof tape players. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 09:55:15 -0700 Michael sayeth: >And how exactly would you do it? Make a big deal out of it? or >just casually levitate the salt shaker? ROFL. Why can I picture this so clearly? >(Megabyte teleporting in and out of that crowded lift in Monsoon >Man). That was Adam. >Think of the possible scenarios of humankind, in general, finding out >about the TP's. I think if most people saw the described scenarios, they wouldn't believe their own eyes. Or, especially if they saw it on TV, would think it a ratings stunt. Others would have some kind of relgious experience. Others....? I don't know. I know I'd have a really hard time accepting any of it, unless I knew the people and knew they weren't faking. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 09:57:34 -0700 Jane sayeth: >Yes, it is easy for the outsider to suggest that honesty is the best >policy, and that if a potential spouse What if it wasn't a *potential* spouse anymore. Say you'd already married the person, you're on your honeymoon and your powers get revealed (how that happens is better left unsaid since this is a family list ). Then what? What if spouse couldn't accept it? ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Humberto Reboredo Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 13:12:21 -0500 You know all this talk about when a TP should reveal their abilities to the person that they are having a relationship with would probably make a great story. Can you imagine the turmoil that must be going inside the TP's head about when to bring it up or if to bring it up? How about the reaction of their significant other when they find out their fiance can disappear into this air at will? I thought I should just bring that up. Humberto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 12:16:55 -0500 (CDT) Humberto (are you new? Hi, there!) said: >You know all this talk about when a TP should reveal their abilities to the >person that they are having a relationship with would probably make a great >story. Can you imagine the turmoil that must be going inside the TP's head >about when to bring it up or if to bring it up? How about the reaction of >their significant other when they find out their fiance can disappear into >this air at will? Funny all this should come up, I've had a scene like that bumping around in my head- among countless other TP scenes. Are we telepatically linked or something? Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trina L. Short" Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 14:07:39 -0400 Humberto Reboredo wrote: > > You know all this talk about when a TP should reveal their abilities to the > person that they are having a relationship with would probably make a great > story. Actually, call me silly, but all throughout this discussion, I've been thinking one thing and one thing only - Bewitched. When Samantha tells Derron of her powers AFTER they are married. I dunno, I think I'd like to know something as monumental as that before I was married rather than during my honeymoon. I'd still marry the person, but something that big should be up front, not in the closet. It looks to the nonpowerful partner as though the special powers partner has no trust. Trust is very important to any relationship. -- trinalin ©1996 ACME Page Fillers, Inc. "This is a hospital, Miss Shaw, not Scooby Doo!" - Dr. Dove http://www.infinet.com/~trinalin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 13:21:46 -0600 (MDT) On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 ladyslvr@sprynet.com wrote: > What if it wasn't a *potential* spouse anymore. Say you'd already > married the person, you're on your honeymoon and your powers get > revealed (how that happens is better left unsaid since this is a > family list ). Then what? What if spouse couldn't accept it? It's almost a no-win situation. Maybe you could change their mind, maybe not. Even in a close and trusting relationship, there are things you think but don't say, things that your spouse would find hurtful, things that are mean-spirited and you're a bit ashamed of thinking them. Things that if you said them would only make it worse. What if you suddenly were faced with the possiblity (real or only perceived) that this mental privacy could be violated. That would be hard to accept. The teleportation, the psychokinesis, I think that would be a piece of cake. They're such obviously useful skills. Telepathy and the possiblity that someone, however dear, could be reading your mind, is scary. And even if they said they couldn't read your mind, all sorts of little things would make you doubt their honesty. How many long term partners anticipate each other's needs, read extremely subtle cues that an outsider wouldn't notice that reveal the state of mind, and automatically take some action to help or comfort or share the mood? How could you be sure that they weren't reading your mind to find out what you needed? Another TP might have the skill to know when someone else was in their mind, or would have the certainty that that was something that the other person couldn't do. A non-TP wouldn't KNOW. Not with the deep down certainty they would need. Of all the TP skills, that is the one that non-TP will fear most, IMO. Even non-TP who are not romantically involved with a TP. Even if it isn't a realistic fear, if mind-reading isn't something the TP can really do. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy M. O'Neal" Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 14:59:22 -0500 (CDT) On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Humberto Reboredo wrote: > You know all this talk about when a TP should reveal their abilities to the > person that they are having a relationship with would probably make a great > story. Can you imagine the turmoil that must be going inside the TP's head > about when to bring it up or if to bring it up? How about the reaction of > their significant other when they find out their fiance can disappear into > this air at will? > > I thought I should just bring that up. > > Humberto > Here's a question that might come up after that... "What's for dinner? Chinese or French?" Tim O'Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 13:57:05 -0600 (MDT) On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 ladyslvr@sprynet.com wrote: > I think if most people saw the described scenarios, they wouldn't > believe their own eyes. Or, especially if they saw it on TV, would > think it a ratings stunt. Others would have some kind of relgious > experience. Others....? I don't know. I know I'd have a really hard > time accepting any of it, unless I knew the people and knew they > weren't faking. Yeah, it's like watching a magician on TV. It just doesn't make the cut when you KNOW that special effects and CGI can do almost anything. It would have to be one hell of a reputable news organization before I would even consider believing anything. And frankly, I can't think of anyone with that kind of credibility. Not even the CBC, and I think very highly of them. And once the tabloids get hold of it, forget it. I automatically write off anything they print. If I saw it with my own eyes, if I could touch and investigate, I might believe. If I knew I hadn't blinked, if the crowd wasn't too thick (it's easy to disappear in a crowd, even without teleporting - actually, if the TP had to disappear in a hurry they probably could dodge into a crowd and vanish - the people in the crowd, if they happened to be looking right at them when they jaunted (and really, who looks at other people in a crowd? they might take offense!) would find a logical explanation in their own minds, even for that irritating flash of light the new TP produce when they jaunt (camera flash, probably)). I am not a very religious person, so I don't think I'd attribute what I saw to an act of God. I'm an SF fan *activate sense of wonder* Wow! Neat! Do it again! Can I try? Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kyrie Daniels" Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 19 Oct 1996 13:31:07 -0300 Wendy said: > Sooo... Kyrie finally delurks and all she has to say is something I > just suggested off-list. Don't be fooled, folks, into thinking this > is an original thought :) Better watch yerself, girl. People might > think you're trying to break your trend of getting mentioned on this > list more times than you actually post. :) But my thoughts are your thoughts and I figured since you did offer out your tapes for the job, I could suggest the idea and you could coordinate pulling it off in the world of the TP. :) > Of course, she does have a point. I guess we'll have to equip all > potential TP with waterproof tape players. But wouldn't the TP find a way of getting the thing open when getting the sea dunk, thereby ruining what would have to be the only copy of the tape? Course, in reality this is only a problem with potential TPs of other situations/abilities that would also require the use of a tape recorded spiel. And we all know how many of these are floating around in TF, and not all of them are going to go around breaking out, either. Kyrie Daniels - http://www.dnai.com/~kyrie/Fanfic.htm "Well, it's obvious to everyone on the list that you are Evil Incarnate." -- Ed Hall, who obviously knows me a little *too* well. Must be a Sliders deity thing. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Blackwell Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 20 Oct 1996 10:29:05 +1100 Jane wrote: > Yeah, it's like watching a magician on TV. It just doesn't make the cut > when you KNOW that special effects and CGI can do almost anything. It > would have to be one hell of a reputable news organization before I would > even consider believing anything. And frankly, I can't think of anyone > with that kind of credibility. Not even the CBC, and I think very highly > of them. And once the tabloids get hold of it, forget it. I > automatically write off anything they print. This isn't specifically about TPs, but it does relate to what people believe. There are a couple of books by Robert Weinberg where the basic premise is that things the human unconscious believe are made real (elves, fairies, gods and more weird stuff besides). So the hero is fighting this ever-powerful god, and the only way to destroy it is to make people NOT believe in it. But it's been by too many people for that, so he sells the story to the tabloids and immediately everyone decides its rubbish and said god disappears. We're a cynical bunch, human beings, and I expect you could get away with quite a few slip ups, perhaps not with the people who know you well and closely, but certainly with the general population. As for telling a potential partner, that would be difficult. And you would probably keep putting it off, and the longer you put off telling the more you not only have to explain the secret, you ALSO have to explain why you didn't tell sooner. So it gets more messy. I certainly don't have the answer to the problem. Kerry > > If I saw it with my own eyes, if I could touch and investigate, I might > believe. If I knew I hadn't blinked, if the crowd wasn't too thick (it's > easy to disappear in a crowd, even without teleporting - actually, if the > TP had to disappear in a hurry they probably could dodge into a crowd and > vanish - the people in the crowd, if they happened to be looking right at > them when they jaunted (and really, who looks at other people in a crowd? > they might take offense!) would find a logical explanation in their own > minds, even for that irritating flash of light the new TP produce when > they jaunt (camera flash, probably)). I am not a very religious person, so > I don't think I'd attribute what I saw to an act of God. I'm an SF fan > *activate sense of wonder* Wow! Neat! Do it again! Can I try? > > Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 > Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 > > _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ > http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ > > > > > > ...when all else fails, duck. It's not practical, but it can Kerry Blackwell be momentarily comforting. K.A.Blackwell@massey.ac.nz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theorie Date: 19 Oct 1996 19:01:52 -0500 (EST) >A TP trying not to tell a non-TP partner this secret would have to be not >using his or her powers at all, or hardly at all. Otherwise, it would be >far too easy to forget and reach for the salt with the mind instead of the >hand. Imagine the stress of having to conciously suppress a whole part of >oneself, not just in public, but also in private. It would be like being >married to an illiterate and having always to pretend you couldn't read. To borrow, but not directly quote, an analogy made in the original series: It would be like a human living amongst a group of monkeys, where his very survival depending on none of them knowing he was a human! John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theorie Date: 19 Oct 1996 23:14:31 -0500 (EST) >> story. Can you imagine the turmoil that must be going inside the TP's head >> about when to bring it up or if to bring it up? How about the reaction of >> their significant other when they find out their fiance can disappear into >> this air at will? >> >> I thought I should just bring that up. >> >> Humberto >> > >Here's a question that might come up after that... "What's for dinner? >Chinese or French?" Or... Non-tp: "What do you mean we can't afford to go to Australia!?" TP: "But I only use my powers in an emergency..." Non-tp: "This vacation *IS* an emergency!" John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Hately Subject: From another account! Date: 20 Oct 1996 14:22:10 -0700 I am having severe problems with my e-mail account at Univeristy and so have subscribed under another account (drednort@geocities.com). I have missed a lot of posts over the last few days. if anyone has been keeping copies of the Tomorrow People Breakout Theory thread, could they please send them to me at this account. I know you may have seen a post asking for them before but I have no way of knowing if my message got through or not. Yours Without Wax Dreadnought ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SelmaMc@aol.com Subject: Relationships, etc. (was Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories) Date: 20 Oct 1996 17:41:22 -0400 Looks like I'm on the tail end of this thread, but I might as well drop my own two cents before it goes off. I think that the TP would have to find people who were more accepting of their abilities to marry. SF fans would be perfect marriage partners. :) But even SF fans would still need to see their spouse's/potential spouses abilities personally. Supernatural ability has to be seen (and touched) to be believed, as I think an earlier poster pointed out. This is not unique to the TP- almost anybody explaining such an ability would have to demonstrate in some way (Highlander springs to mind - cutting or killing oneself to demonstrate fast healing and Immortality). Maybe the best people would be those who have experienced or are familiar with the ability, for example, someone who is related in some way to another TP, or someone who knows that supernatural beings exist. Of course, the best thing is to marry another TP- but that may not be a viable option for the current generation of TPs! Of course, on a slightly different angle, even if your spouse *is* a SF fan, you're going to be in trouble if you *can* actully read minds (I know the old series TP can't, whether the new series can is up in the air). I would think that the marriage rate for a mind-reader would be rather low. Since Kyrie is dealing with the subject more than I am, however, I'll leave it to her to figure things out. :) Selma selmamc@aol.com smccrory@calweb.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Relationships, etc. (was Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories) Date: 21 Oct 1996 00:30:42 -0500 (CDT) Selma said: >Maybe the best people would be those who have experienced or are familiar >with the ability, for example, someone who is related in some way to another >TP, or someone who knows that supernatural beings exist. Of course, the best >thing is to marry another TP- but that may not be a viable option for the >current generation of TPs! Actually, they have a better chance at it than the original series TP's- unless you want to count humanoid telepathic aliens. Ther e are three TP females: Carol, Liz, and Hsui Tai- oh and Tricia, make that four. :) And seven TP males: John, Kenny, Stephen, Mike, Tyso, and Andrew. Since Carol is married, this is less than a two to one ratio. On the other hand, there are three of each gender in the new series: Adam, Kevin, and Megabyte, and Lisa, Ami, and Jade. This is a one to one ratio. So it looks to me like the current generation might have an easier time (except for the incest clause, of course). (I hope this sends OK, my roommate's computer is doing weird things and confusing me). Beth PS Michael- I found the proof you wanted, but lost your address. Please email me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: TP Sites Page?? Date: 21 Oct 1996 12:15:59 -0500 (EST) I bought myself a scanner yesterday, for a few reasons, but will be using it to add some stuff to my webpages as appropriate. Then an inspiration hit me... Why not create a TP page to show the actual sites used for the series. The new series, especially, made extensive use of various well-known sights in and around London. I have several of them on film from my last trip there and would be willing to scan them in if there was interest in such a page. What do you all think? I would need some help for those sights I don't have have photos of... *hint* John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Donna Kirking Subject: Re: Relationships, etc. (was Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Date: 21 Oct 1996 13:31:31 -0700 In the news series pilet Kevin could read the minds of non-TP. In fact, he said he had always heard voices in his head and as he got older the voices got louder. >Of course, on a slightly different angle, even if your spouse *is* a SF fan, >you're going to be in trouble if you *can* actully read minds (I know the old >series TP can't, whether the new series can is up in the air). I would think >that the marriage rate for a mind-reader would be rather low. > >Selma >selmamc@aol.com >smccrory@calweb.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Leadership Date: 21 Oct 1996 15:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Just to start a new thread, this is something that occurred to me while thinking about the relationships topic. Discussion? Disagreement? The leaders of both old and new TP are the ones who broke out first. However, I think they are the leaders not so much because they were the first, but because they broke out successfully unassisted. Particularily John, who didn't even have the Ship. It requires intelligence, mental discipline, curiosity, and courage to explore these new skills alone. Especially teleportation, which, after the first time (probably done under pressure), would require first that the new TP figure out what they did and how to do it again, and then to practice over longer and longer distances, and going places they couldn't see. John was on his own for three months before Carol broke out. It isn't really clear how much he was able to figure out on his own (how much experimenting with telepathy can you do without any other telepaths?) but he must have done some, because he was able to help Carol. Adam wasn't alone as long (I don't think), but he learned to compensate for the pull of the beacon and jaunt off the island. Maybe the Ship helped, I don't know. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Leadership Date: 22 Oct 1996 09:23:23 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: > The leaders of both old and new TP are the ones who broke out first. > However, I think they are the leaders not so much because they were the > first, but because they broke out successfully unassisted. Particularily > John, who didn't even have the Ship. It requires intelligence, mental > discipline, curiosity, and courage to explore these new skills alone. > Especially teleportation, which, after the first time (probably done under > pressure), would require first that the new TP figure out what they did > and how to do it again, and then to practice over longer and longer > distances, and going places they couldn't see. Thats's a good point. It is very possible (maybe even likely) that there were other TP before John or Adam, and they simply didn't have the talents necessary to survive. The sheer idea of 'survival of the fittest' would help to ensure that the first TP to survive would have certain qualities, which would certainly include an innate strength, and perhaps even an innate 'leadership' skill. Once this first TP broke out, they were able to help the others, and as more broke out, it became safer and safer. Imagine if they're had been no one to help Elizabeth after her break out. There are also more mundane dangers. In the new series they are in imminent danger of drowining after break out. Hsui Tai would have been killed in the old series etc. > John was on his own for three months before Carol broke out. It isn't > really clear how much he was able to figure out on his own (how much > experimenting with telepathy can you do without any other telepaths?) but > he must have done some, because he was able to help Carol. Adam wasn't > alone as long (I don't think), but he learned to compensate for the pull > of the beacon and jaunt off the island. Maybe the Ship helped, I don't > know. Especially in John's case, he became leader almost by default. He was the first, and was older than most of the others. His age was (IMHO) the primary reason for his leadership. It can be observed that as the others grew up, they became more and more responsible, and they followed him, more out of habit than anything else. I haven't yet seen the new series, but I get the impression that Adam is less of a leader than John, more of a first among equals type of thing. When someone has to take a decision, he does, but things are a lot more 'democratic'. Besides anything else, we have to remember the change in philosophy of childrens TV. The idea of having a 'leader' is far less likely to appear in modern childrens stories and TV than it was in the past. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 22 Oct 1996 09:32:06 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 PANNELLJ@delphi.com wrote: > I bought myself a scanner yesterday, for a few reasons, but will be using it > to add some stuff to my webpages as appropriate. > > Then an inspiration hit me... > > Why not create a TP page to show the actual sites used for the series. The > new series, especially, made extensive use of various well-known sights in > and around London. I have several of them on film from my last trip there > and would be willing to scan them in if there was interest in such a page. > > What do you all think? I think that this would be great. Unfortunately living in Australia, would prevent me from helping, but I would love to see it. BTW, in terms of getting photos, some of the places especially in London, would probably appear as postcards. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 21 Oct 1996 16:48:49 -0700 John said: >What do you all think? I think that's a great idea. I didn't get to see any of the sites (mostly forgetfullness on my part) while I was there. Most people aren't going to get a chance to go to England at all. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Leadership Date: 21 Oct 1996 20:59:54 -0500 (CDT) Shaun/Dreadnought said: >I haven't yet seen the new series, >but I get the impression that Adam is less of a leader than John, more of >a first among equals type of thing. When someone has to take a decision, >he does, but things are a lot more 'democratic'. Adam's more of an overprotective brother than a mother hen. John lets the others do the dirty work while overseeing everything (generally) Adam generally tells the others to do the safer stuff and walks into the trap himself. :) Seriously, though, John has to ask for other ideas, Adam gets them whether he wants them or not. John is a benvolent (read parental) dictator. Adam is more of a.... grr, well, he runs things the way the SFA was run my Frosh year- there's a discussion of what should be done, and then the leader dictates what will be done. >Besides anything else, >we have to remember the change in philosophy of childrens TV. The idea of >having a 'leader' is far less likely to appear in modern childrens >stories and TV than it was in the past. Tries to think of counterexamples...... Can't- at least not to anything I want to admit to sitting through. Point taken. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 22 Oct 1996 21:38:16 +0100 In message <01IAWKIC1T088YBHI6@delphi.com> PANNELLJ@delphi.com writes: > I would need some help for those sights I don't have have photos of... > *hint* Does this mean you'd like me to go to Hascombe (the village used for Living Stones)? A bit off my beaten track, I'm afraid. Now for the old series we'd just need a few shots around Teddington plus some gravel pits. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 22 Oct 1996 15:59:45 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Jeremy Rogers wrote: > Now for the old series we'd just need a few shots around Teddington > plus some gravel pits. would those be the same gravel pits so familiar to us from Dr. Who or did Thames have their own gravel pits, unpolluted by the BBC? Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: AAAARRRGGHHH! Date: 23 Oct 1996 09:52:59 +1000 (EST) After waiting for months for ABCTV in Australia to start broadcasting the Tomorrow People (supposedly due to start this Sunday) I buy a TV program and it is not on! I have told so many people about the date and time, and now it isn't there. To any Aussies on this list who read my message about it, I apologise but I was only repeating what the ABC told me. I'm going to be trying to get in contact with them this afternoon, and find out what is happening. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/8017/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: ADMIN: Test Date: 22 Oct 1996 19:27:27 -0700 Surprise, surprise. Xmission varked again. I'm sending out this message to see what I need to fix *again* since they implemented their fix. If you've signed off one or both of theses lists after September 7th, and you don't like being reinstated, please email me off-list and ask to be removed. If you are on the lists, but know you subbed a different address(es) after September 7th, please email me offlist so I can make appropriate adjustments. Otherwise, please ignore. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 22 Oct 1996 07:40:38 +0100 In message starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca writes: > On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Jeremy Rogers wrote: > > Now for the old series we'd just need a few shots around Teddington > > plus some gravel pits. > would those be the same gravel pits so familiar to us from Dr. Who or did > Thames have their own gravel pits, unpolluted by the BBC? Supposedly they turned up in the same pit on the same day, but that sounds like a story to me. In those days at Thames the Head of Department had to specially authorise location work more than 30 miles from Teddington. Come to think about it most of the new show's locations fit this rule too. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: teleporting question Date: 23 Oct 1996 15:13:12 +0300 (EET DST) Has anyone come up with a way to describe the sound the new series TP's make when they teleport? I haven't noticed any such description in the stories at the TP site which I have read so far although it is possible I've overlooked it (Sorry, if I have). About as far as I have got is the "pop" at the end but I can't seem to put the first part of the sound into words. The reason I want to be able to describe it is that I'm trying to get the last couple of scenes in a story written and I'm getting tired of having to describe the visual "flash of light." Thanks in advance for any suggestions Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kirbyko3@aol.com Subject: Re: AAAARRRGGHHH! Date: 23 Oct 1996 10:11:21 -0400 Howdy all! I'm suddenly back on the discussion list.... hmmm..... can someone re-remind me how to remove myself? Hope you're all doing well! Kerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scottg@global2000.net (ScottG) Subject: Re: Leadership Date: 23 Oct 1996 16:12:23 -0400 I assume that when Xmission varked(?) this thread died...But wait I know CPR... >John was on his own for three months before Carol broke out. It isn't >really clear how much he was able to figure out on his own (how much >experimenting with telepathy can you do without any other telepaths?) He may not have been alone for the entire three months... I would have to assume that this was the period in which he built (final assembled) TIM. This raises an intresting point... In worlds away I believe the dialog goes something like this: John: Hey, I thought I built TIM with a little help from the galactic federation Tim: You did the final assembley, But I was initiated by (one of Timus Clone Brothers).. O.K. now back to the thread point... Either A) The Galactic Federation is sitting around watching all the "Closed Worlds" for the first telepaths, B) John managed to contact them somehow, or C) The Galactice Federation actually HELPED or PUSHED John to breakout. I'm not sure which is more likely...You could make an argument for both B and C and that would also make John either a very strong telepath (B) or something special that the GF would pick him of all the billions on earth (C) Either of those cases would nominate him for a leadership position... (Ahh you new I'd get here eventually....:) ) Scott G -You are a Toy - T O Y Toy The word I think your looking for is SPACE RANGER The word I'm looking for I can't say because there are preschool toys here Toy Story ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: teleporting question Date: 23 Oct 1996 19:24:34 +0100 In message Michael Edmonds writes: > Has anyone come up with a way to describe the sound the new series TP's > make when they teleport? I haven't noticed any such description in the > stories at the TP site which I have read so far although it is possible > I've overlooked it (Sorry, if I have). About as far as I have got is the > "pop" at the end but I can't seem to put the first part of the sound into > words. Having just listened to the sound in stereo on headphones I'd say it was something like: Feeeeoowwaaafumpf (going) Fummaheewawawa (coming) I do think it varied a little though. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: teleporting question Date: 23 Oct 1996 14:56:37 -0700 >Has anyone come up with a way to describe the sound the new series >TP's make when they teleport? Someone, somewhere once described it as an electical sound. That's about the best description I've heard so far. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: Tomorrow People Breakout Theories Date: 24 Oct 1996 08:08:44 +1100 (EST) What an interesting lot of theories flying around! But I've got an even more interesting one. What if the TP were Uplifted? (refer David Brin's Uplift series) Suppose... Thousands of years ago, some aliens (crash)landed on an island in the Pacific. They started tinkering with human genes, trying to develop psi powers in humans. Of course, being able to teleport themselves, it wouldn't have mattered to the aliens that their ship was in the Pacific, since they could have gone anywhere in the world. Then the Khultan came, built their psi dampers, stopped the project in its tracks. The Uplifting aliens may have died or escaped or been trapped. Either way, the spaceship was not discovered. Or maybe it was, and was damaged. But the tinkered genes made their way into the human gene pool, throughout the population, over that long period. By the 70s, when the Khultan psi dampers broke down, the psi-potential was scattered throughout the human race. And the first ones started breaking out. Then in the 90s, maybe there was an earthquake and that activated the space-ship's teleport-magnet for some reason. (Has to be a reason it wasn't active in the 70s...) I like this theory. It is consistent with old and new series (if you can explain why the 70s TPs left), it explains the spaceship (why its AI was waiting for TP to emerge), it might explain why King Tut was a TP, it explains why they started breaking out in the 70s... And you don't have to worry about the small probability that the *same* mutation would occur at the *same* time. K.J.A. - Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy M. O'Neal" Subject: Re: teleporting question Date: 23 Oct 1996 19:34:21 -0500 (CDT) "...Suddunly there was a flash of light, followed by the crack-fizz like someone was having bad reception..." Change at random. :) On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Michael Edmonds wrote: > Has anyone come up with a way to describe the sound the new series TP's > make when they teleport? I haven't noticed any such description in the > stories at the TP site which I have read so far although it is possible > I've overlooked it (Sorry, if I have). About as far as I have got is the > "pop" at the end but I can't seem to put the first part of the sound into > words. > The reason I want to be able to describe it is that I'm trying to get the > last couple of scenes in a story written and I'm getting tired of having > to describe the visual "flash of light." > Thanks in advance for any suggestions > > Michael > > > Timothy O'Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: teleporting question Date: 24 Oct 1996 08:25:57 +0300 (EET DST) >Feeeeoowwaaafumpf (going) >Fummaheewawawa (coming) Gee thanks, Jez. I'm glad I was the only one in the room when and read this and tried to sound it out. I'm just disappointed I don't have my new series tapes to see if I can pick this out. > followed by the crack-fizz like >someone was having bad reception... Thanks Timothy Yes, there is definitely an electrical like quality to it (W. Loraine) Maybe we should have a competition to see who can provide the best sound. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Leadership Date: 24 Oct 1996 08:40:39 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, ScottG wrote: > He may not have been alone for the entire three months... I would have to > assume that this was the period in which he built (final assembled) TIM. Well, according to _The Visitor_, the TP were not contacted by the GF (or the Sophists, anyway) until after Kenny broke out (but before Stephen), and it was during that period that they built TIM. I haven't got the book with me so I can't check the exact passage. > O.K. now back to the thread point... Either A) The Galactic Federation is > sitting around watching all the "Closed Worlds" for the first telepaths, B) > John managed to contact them somehow, or C) The Galactice Federation > actually HELPED or PUSHED John to breakout. My theory is that the GF has some sensors around, but they don't get triggered until a certain level of psi activity registers - after all, there is always a background level - people like Tricia who use some fraction of their abilities, but aren't TP. Three active TP were, in this case, enough to trigger the sensors. Of course, it doesn't explain why the new series managed 6 and no contact, although at most only four were actively using their powers at any given time, so maybe that makes a difference. Or maybe they recalibrated the sensors :). Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 24 Oct 1996 11:07:08 -0500 (EST) OK... I have a basic sight created (http://people.delphi.com/tpsights.htm) showing some of my photographs for sights used in The Tomorrow People. At present these are all new series locations. Please feel free to comment on it. It's not too fancy looking right now, so remember the amount of time I've put into so far and be merciful to me. I need some better pictures of Cleopatra's Needle, and Kew Gardens. I also need a decent picture of the British Museum (?), the one used in The Rameses Connection. I went there when I was last in the UK, but I don't think any of my pictures are really all that suitable. Also, in both Rameses and the origin story, numerous sights about London were shown. If anyone has photos of them, please send them to me. Also, if anyone has been to Hascombe (not you Jez!) or has a decent picture of Lucy's House from "Monsoon Man", (really Lee Pressman's, I believe) please send them to me as well. I also have a decent picture of the Tower Bridge, which we saw Kenny on during the serial when Stephen broke out - forget name right now. That eventually will make its way onto my page. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McKay, Brad" Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 24 Oct 1996 11:31:48 -0400 John, this is not a valid address... >>I have a basic sight created (http://people.delphi.com/tpsights.htm) showing >>some of my photographs for sights used in The Tomorrow People. At present Brad ---------------- "No matter how much data you add to your laptop, it will not get heavier." ---------------- Brad McKay Computer Support Technician 201-993-3000 Ext. 6629 201-993-3093 Fax Internet: B.McKay@dialogic.com DIALOGIC CORPORATION 1515 Route Ten, Parsippany, NJ 07054 http://www.dialogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jeremy.rogers@aeat.co.uk (Jeremy Rogers) Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 24 Oct 1996 16:36:32 BST > John, this is not a valid address... > > >>I have a basic sight created (http://people.delphi.com/tpsights.htm) > showing > >>some of my photographs for sights used in The Tomorrow People. At > present I think it should be http://people.delphi.com/pannellj/tpsights.htm Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: John Breaking out/Trig (was: RE Leadership) Date: 24 Oct 1996 11:22:05 -0500 (CDT) Scott G said: >O.K. now back to the thread point... Either A) The Galactic Federation is >sitting around watching all the "Closed Worlds" for the first telepaths, B) >John managed to contact them somehow, or C) The Galactice Federation >actually HELPED or PUSHED John to breakout. Except you're forgetting about the mentions of the Sophostrians in the first season (and The Visitor- thanks, Jez:). I think what may have happened is, John broke out, and being the crack inventor that he is, somehow managed to invent the jaunting belt (a version that didn't need TIM but wasn't as versatile or easy to set cooridnates on). Carol and then Kenny break out and the three decide to test juanting range- landing on Sophostria. The Sophists quietly contact the Federation, who sends the TP home with the equipment for building TIM. A) seems the most plausable of your theories, I just somehow doubt the Trig could really control who breaks out on Earth. Why would they suddenly let Tricia decide to break out? How would they *know* that she had to? Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: TP Sites Page?? Date: 24 Oct 1996 14:27:56 -0500 (EST) >> >>some of my photographs for sights used in The Tomorrow People. At >> present > >I think it should be http://people.delphi.com/pannellj/tpsights.htm YES! Jez correctly noted my bad typing. Sorry for the inconvenience it may have caused. Please, let me know what you all think as I try to build it. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: teleporting question Date: 24 Oct 1996 16:24:25 -0500 (EST) Jez wrote: >Having just listened to the sound in stereo on headphones I'd say it >was something like: > >Feeeeoowwaaafumpf (going) >Fummaheewawawa (coming) > >I do think it varied a little though. I was trying to say these last night and see if they worked. IMO, the first one seems fairly close. I can't get the second one quite right... Isn't it amazing that I was actually trying to say these aloud!? John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: teleporting question Date: 24 Oct 1996 16:05:45 -0700 Michael said: >Maybe we should have a competition to see who can provide the best >sound. I think Jez wins hands down on this one :) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Exodus Date: 24 Oct 1996 16:35:21 -0700 Forwarded from Marcell: Jane, this is definately the most plausible theory to date. Good work on uncovering the truth :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Temesha Lynn Chatman Subject: Episode Reviews Date: 24 Oct 1996 22:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Hi, everybody! Next week is my mid-semester break, and I plan to spend some time watching my TP tapes (THANKS SO MUCH, WENDY! ). Anyway, if anyone is interested, I don't mind writing a few episode reviews/synopses for either the new series or old series. I was just wondering if there are any guidelines/suggestions for writing an episode synopsis (i.e. how much should be left un-spoiled). Also, if someone would like to host my reviews on their Web site, that would be great. I have a Web site but it will only be around until I graduate in June. :( Have a good weekend, everybody, Temesha ******************************************************************************* Temesha Lynn Chatman '97 Princeton University tchatman@princeton.edu http://www.princeton.edu/~tchatman ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alex.Gen@2235-185.mx1.fidonet.org (Alex Gen) Subject: teleporting question Date: 24 Oct 1996 08:36:56 -0500 > Has anyone come up with a way to describe the sound the new series > TP's > make when they teleport? I haven't noticed any such description in the > stories at the TP site which I have read so far although it is > possible Well, the sound they used in series is almost the same as in the first natendo game that came out. (I think it was Mario game) and those sounds in there... Frequency was modified. And I guess they used it in reverse too.. Alex. -- |Fidonet: Alex Gen 1:2235/185 |Internet: Alex.Gen@2235-185.mx1.fidonet.org | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: books Date: 25 Oct 1996 14:51:50 -0700 I just came into possession of three new-series novelisations: Culex, Monsoon, and Stones. If anyone is interested in purchasing them off me, please enquire off-list. The books cost me $8 ea, which is what I'll sell them for. First come, first served :) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: books Date: 25 Oct 1996 18:34:01 -0500 (EST) W. Lorraine wrote: >I just came into possession of three new-series novelisations: Culex, >Monsoon, and Stones. If anyone is interested in purchasing them off >me, please enquire off-list. The books cost me $8 ea, which is what >I'll sell them for. First come, first served :) I'd be interested in Stones! John pannellj@delphi.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: books Date: 25 Oct 1996 15:39:53 -0700 >I'd be interested in Stones Cool. If you could send me a check for the amount, that would be great. And your address, or course. :) The book is $8. Postage can't be much more than $1. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Hately Subject: The Old Series New Lab! Date: 26 Oct 1996 15:07:18 -0700 This post has been inspired by a discussion we've been having on the fiction list (-8. Where was the new lab in the 70s series located? Do we know? The old lab was in London, but did they ever mention where they built the new lab. I suppose the topic for discussion is: Where do you think the new lab was? (or if somebody already knows that, where should the TP base themselves?) IMHO, I wouldn't have built the new lab in London. I would have chosen somewhere else - Australia! My reasons are: 1) very geologically stable. 2) politically stable. 3) we have no evidence that the Australian authorities have any knowledge of the TP. 4) a good climate! 5) 85% of the country is almost empty - plenty of places to hide. I could come up with other reasons (and I might later) but for the moment, I've just posted to get the ball rolling. BTW, I've been having mail problems (hence the use of this account), and I have no idea which of my messages got through and which ones didn't over the least few days. I *think* my message about the TP not being on Australian TV tomorrow even though it was meant to, got through, but I don't know if my followup did. in case anyone is interested, here is what has happened. Channel 2 had planned to begin showing the Tomorrow People (I assume the 90s version, though I haven't been able to get confirmation of that) from 9.30 am tomorrow morning (Sunday, 27th October). However when they had the shows rated, two episodes were given PG (Parental Guidance ratings). For some reason (I'm not sure if it's legal, or part of their own internal policies) they are unable to show PG rated programs in the timeslot they had planned, and so they have had to postpone their broadcast - probably until March next year at the earliest. They do plan to show it eventually, which is good, but as someone who has been waiting for at least four years to see any episodes, old or new, and who hasn't even got the option of getting tapes, (people have offered, but I can't play NTSC tapes) I am obviously bitterly disappointed. I have written to Channel 2 asking them to try and show the episodes sooner, but apparently they program at least three months in advance. Shaun Hately drednort@bud.swin.edu.au drednort@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/8017/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Where are they now (was Re: Exodus) Date: 25 Oct 1996 23:59:16 -0600 (MDT) On Sat, 26 Oct 1996, Shaun Hately wrote: > Yes, they are removed from Earths gene pool. That is unfortunate. But > they are not removed from the human gene pool. They could easily produce > children with each other, while at the trig (sorry to bring that up > again). I wasn't so much thinking of the TP themselves, but of all the people who will not now become TP. That gene in them goes to waste. > And yes, IMHO as well they are willing to risk their lives for > all its people. As I said in the fanfic, however, I saw two > possibilites, that there would remain only a few TP, who could be wiped > out rather easily if the Saps found them, in which case the end result > would be the same - no TP on Earth, or a large number of them could > break out suddenly, in which case a massive attack could be mounted by > the Sap authorities to destroy all TP. Thousands or millions could die. > There are other, less dangerous, possibilities, of course, but the > danger of these two helped to prompt the trigs decision. If the TP are working intelligently to lay the groundwork for the mass break out that is (according to Peter) coming in the 21st century, I don't think this will happen. As the number of breakouts accelerates, too, they're going to have trouble being on hand to assist and train each and every person who breaks out, no matter how it happens. The more TP on earth, the more they can help, but at some point, most will be on their own. Yes, some will probably be panicked into jaunting into hyperspace. Yes, some will die. But you can only do so much. You can only help so many. > But the TP would not want to accomplish their > take over of the world via violence, even if they were not responsible > for that violence, and even if the end result was good. "We want to take > over the Earth, but at the right time and in the right way. We don't > want to do it, over the Saps' dead bodies." - Stephen, page 104, 'The > Visitor'. I think they've learned a thing or two in the meantime. > Again, they could try and withdraw without leaving. But, IMHO, as soon > as one of them was in danger, the others would come to save them. And > once again, they would have to change their identities and move on. Even > if none of them were ever in danger, what about new TP. Take an example > from the new series (actually, this is from the novelisation of the > Origin story, contained in the Culex Experiment, but I assume its > accurate). > Agreed, their responsibility is to preserve their species, not their own > individual selves. They are now too well known, and hence they are a > liability to any future TP. That is a reason for leaving. Especially > when the Trig has ensured that any new TP will not be breaking out in > the short term, and has decided to remove their powers, so they would > not be in much of a position to help anyway. I'm assuming they've learned a thing or two over the years, about how to intervene safely, how to cover their tracks, how to confuse the intelligence and the criminal element that would like to use them for their own ends. Also, Lisa, Adam and co. didn't do so well all on their own. They're known, now, to some very nasty people, and without any help from the old TP. I would be afraid that they'd be doomed to repeat history, without guidance. > Australia is the most geologically stable continent on Earth (except > maybe Antarctica - I'm not sure). It has no continental faults running > through it. It very occasionally has a significant quake that you can > feel (we had one about a month ago, but even it did no serious damage, > and caused no injuries). In the 200 years of written history, there has > only ever been one fatal earth movement, and that only killed 12 people. > Our intelligence sector is very good, but it wasn't in 1980 - I don't > know when it was, but ASIS did a training operation in an an exclusive > hotel, and it culminated in the agents being chased down a city street, > but hotel staff and police. CSIS are a national joke. The military aren't quite so bad. They do good work in several nasty areas as peacekeepers (although there is presently a scandal because one lot of them added to the nastiness in the area they were supposed to be keeping peace). > I suggested Australia, for (I assume) the > same reason you suggested Canada. It's my home. But it is an interesting > idea. Where would they go? You say the new lab may not be in London. I > didn't know that, I assumed it was. Why do we assume it's even in the > UK. Well, I only partly suggested Canada because it is home. Any peaceful, politically stable, technologically advanced country would do. I ruled out the U.S. because they have such a reputation in the espionage and national security fronts - too much activity. Geological stability is a bonus if you're keen to build underground. Because the TP are mostly English-speaking I thought an English-speaking country would be better, not because of the language barrier, but because accents would be less noticable. Canada, because of the large amount of immigration from the UK, has lots of people with similar accents. Australia is the same. My assumption is that wherever the Lab is, John is. The others may be spread around the planet, but he'll be close to "home," wherever that may be. If the Lab is not located in a population centre, he may be completely isolated from the "real world" - even more so than before - unless he has a reason to get out once in a while. > I think I'll take that question over to the discussion list, and we > can all argue about where the new lab is, or where it should be. ack. I didn't notice we were doing this on the fiction list, or I'd have moved over before. > your comment as to how our weather is better. You haven't been here the > last month or so! No, but I've been here. It's starting to snow. How much worse can it be? At least you're coming up on summer. We didn't have summer this year until the last three weeks of August. Just a very cold, wet spring and some days that were partially overcast. > I'm really glad my story has inspired all this discussion! Oh, good. I enjoy this sort of thing. Your arguments are all logical within the framework you've established - I don't have a problem with that - just the underlying assumption that they'd all leave. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Rating the Tomorrow People Date: 26 Oct 1996 16:31:10 GMT In message <32728B96.1DF6@geocities.com> Shaun Hately writes: > Channel 2 had planned to begin showing the Tomorrow People (I assume the > 90s version, though I haven't been able to get confirmation of that) > from 9.30 am tomorrow morning (Sunday, 27th October). However when they > had the shows rated, two episodes were given PG (Parental Guidance > ratings). I find this very interesting if this is the 90s version, if only because it would have already been through two countries' (or companies') codes. The one operated by the Independent Television Commission (ITC) in the UK is quite strict about things that can appear in the designated hours for children's television. It would be interesting to know what the 'offending' material was. As I have mentioned previously, Slaves of Jedikiah was rated PG by the British Board of Film Classification for its video release. This classification usually means - some limited violence and/or - some sexy scenes including brief nudity and/or - some milder swear words I guess it got uprated on the violence, but there isn't any there really. Still The Tomorrow People was found to be totally unacceptable to show to Swedish children in the 70s. > For some reason (I'm not sure if it's legal, or part of their > own internal policies) they are unable to show PG rated programs in the > timeslot they had planned, and so they have had to postpone their > broadcast - probably until March next year at the earliest. They do plan > to show it eventually, which is good, but as someone who has been > waiting for at least four years to see any episodes, old or new, and who > hasn't even got the option of getting tapes, (people have offered, but I > can't play NTSC tapes) There are some of us with PAL tapes ... Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Hately Subject: Re: Rating the Tomorrow People Date: 27 Oct 1996 10:23:24 -0800 Jeremy Rogers wrote: > In message <32728B96.1DF6@geocities.com> > Shaun Hately writes: > > > Channel 2 had planned to begin showing the Tomorrow People (I assume the > > 90s version, though I haven't been able to get confirmation of that) > > from 9.30 am tomorrow morning (Sunday, 27th October). However when they > > had the shows rated, two episodes were given PG (Parental Guidance > > ratings). > > I find this very interesting if this is the 90s version, if only > because it would have already been through two countries' (or > companies') codes. The one operated by the Independent Television > Commission (ITC) in the UK is quite strict about things that can > appear in the designated hours for children's television. It would be > interesting to know what the 'offending' material was. I'm trying to find out the reason for the PG rating, but there is at least one possibility I can think of. From the novelisation of Origin story contained in 'The Culex Experiment' I get the impression that Megabyte(?) tried to fire a gun at someone. If that's the case, then that alone could have given that episode a PG rating. There has been a fair amount of discussion in the media here, about violence on TV, since the Port Arthur massacre, and, as I understand them, the proposed new rules will require an automatic PG rating for any show which has guns in it. Certainly, a scene which has a child carrying a gun, would be suspect. It would also (possibly) explain why the rating problem was discovered do late on. The ratings changes have only been proposed very recently. In addition, any mention of the possibility of death for a character is considered a borderline 'adult concept' so episodes of 'Culex' which refer to the possibility of the mass death of humanity could cause problems. Shaun Hately drednort@bud.swin.edu.au drednort@geocities.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: The Old Series New Lab! Date: 26 Oct 1996 23:16:30 -0500 (CDT) Shaun said: >Where do you think the new lab was? For the purposes of one of the (counts on fingers) four stories I'm currently working on, somewhere in the country, outside London. Somewhere isolated, and John owns most of the territory around it. I kinda like Ruby Red's idea of it being underground though. I can't see why else the cabins don't have windows. (Then again, they could be in the wall where the camera hangs out.:) >(or if somebody already knows that, >where should the TP base themselves?) Undersea, maybe? Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 27 Oct 1996 08:19:59 +0200 (EET) >Undersea, maybe? If we're talking where SHOULD the TP have their base I like this idea, although how would they get it built? There are a lot of things one might consider when choosing a secret base of operations. For example, the attitude of the local populace could be important. Here in Finland the people are very reserved and keep to themselves in general. This fact alone could make Finland a reasonable headquarters (ignoring the language problems and the cold weather). Also the Finns, in general, have a certain fondness for alcohol. Anyone reporting people disappearing in flashs of light would be laughed at, and accused of being drunk. Note -on the good side, the Finns, once you get past the reservedness are great people and Finland is one of the few places I know of where women can safely jog through forests alone at night. They are obviously doing something right. Australia I guess would be quite good, although I think in general the population might tend to be a bit too curious about anything weird. Another thought. What about San Francisco? A colleague just returned from Berkeley and said that in San Francisco basically anything goes. With so much weirdness going on around them the TP's could look positively normal! (This is not meant as an insult, just a (possibly erroneous) observation) Or what about an island like in the new series. It seems to work. There are a lot of uninhabited islands out there. Actually come to think of it I am inclined to go with the "lost in the crowd" sort of base. If their base were to use lots of high tech. equipment any electronic emissions or power generating equipment might be obvious by satellite or other scanning equipment. The best place to hide might be a populated/high tech area. Then of course there are other ways of "hiding". An effective cover such as a magicians organisation might be effective. After all where else can you see people disappear, and not die of fright. Hell, why not penetrate the Skeptics Society. A few members in here could watch out for other TP's. One thing I would suggest is that with any base of operations there is also physical access. While only being able to access the base by teleport is an excellent security measure, something about it bothers me. If something were to go wrong, say someone managed to psi-dampen them, they would be trapped. At the moment, I'm just finishing a story with a new base in it, in which I have considered some of the ideas above, although having read some of the other ideas, I might have to think over a few points. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Rating the Tomorrow People Date: 26 Oct 1996 15:23:07 GMT In message <3273A89C.676D@geocities.com> Shaun Hately writes: > I'm trying to find out the reason for the PG rating, but there is at > least one possibility I can think of. From the novelisation of Origin > story contained in 'The Culex Experiment' I get the impression that > Megabyte(?) tried to fire a gun at someone. It doesn't happen quite as in the novelisation, but the key thing is of course that he is incapable of firing the gun. However Mulvaney does points a sub machine gun at two points. The BBFC rated the video of this story as a U, but that was in 1994. UK producer guidelines state that children should not *normally* hold a gun. I can only think of one case where a child has actually fired. > If that's the case, then > that alone could have given that episode a PG rating. There has been a > fair amount of discussion in the media here, about violence on TV, since > the Port Arthur massacre, and, as I understand them, the proposed new > rules will require an automatic PG rating for any show which has guns in > it. Certainly, a scene which has a child carrying a gun, would be > suspect. The same thing is under examination here after Dunblane. Many things are already complete no-nos including knives and martial arts weapons. Incidentally having mentioned the ITC, in their Annual Report for 1995 which I saw recently, The Tomorrow People is singled out as one of the highlights of the year for children's television, along with 'The Ward' and 'Woof!'. The others are still in production. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 27 Oct 1996 12:57:46 -0600 (CST) Michael said: [A base where the only entrance is available by] > teleport >is an excellent security measure, something about it bothers me. If >something were to go wrong, say someone managed to psi-dampen them, they >would be trapped. That's what matter transmitter bands are for, silly! Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 27 Oct 1996 22:29:35 -0700 (MST) I guess the defining reason for putting the Lab anyplace is, what is its purpose? Is it a home for the TP? That's going to get more and more difficult to cope with as numbers increase. It is going to become impractical to keep adding extra bedrooms, not to mention increasing the size of the lounge and the labs and other facilities. How many people can TIM feed? How long before they're at each other's throats (metaphorically, of course)? Is it a central place to keep the stuff that you can't leave lying around your flat (TIM, AE suits, stun guns, matter transporters, etc.)? Is it a central HQ, to which the TP come to report, or to socialize, but they carry on their lives elsewhere? (this is not incompatible with the warehouse function, but would require meeting or council room(s) where TP can meet either physically, or via telepathic "conference call." Is it a diplomatic way-station? Is it a research facility? What kinds of research? How many will need to use it? How important is security from sap invasion? I realize that within the time of the series it has all these functions. Over time, as the TP increase and their "society" evolves, I think it will change. Some of these functions will drop off (like the "home" function - there's a limit to how many bedrooms you can keep adding on, and how many people can TIM feed, anyway?). Others will become more important. What kind of lab is needed and where it should be located will depend on when they decide to move, and what needs they have at that point. I tend to go with the "hidden in a crowd" theory. Small towns and rural areas are too nosy, or too insular ("Oh, them. They're from away" means "they" are automatically weird, objects of curiosity, and/or untrustworthy), and unless the visiting TP stayed within the Lab at all times, they'd be noticed and remarked upon (of course, the locals would never tell anyone about it because anyone they might tell is also "from away" and therefore also not trustworthy). In a research park or silicon valley type area the high tech equipment would not attract attention, if any had to be displayed where it could be seen. Ever since people figured out that there's money in high tech, many cities have high-tech business incubators and/or research parks. Especially if there is also a university in town. Universities attract people from all over the world. Here at the University of Alberta (as, I assume, at most large universities), nobody thinks twice about accents or skin colour, or even clothing styles. Undergrads, grad students, teaching assistants, professors, non-Academic staff - you could probably find at least one person from any country you care to name. Some of them are also Canadians (some of them have roots in this country longer than mine), some are only here to study. Even many of the Canadians are from out of town, and will go back when they're done. I'm sure that it would be much easier for the TP not to attract attention in a town or city with a fair-sized university than anywhere else. Especially if that university has a decent reputation in science. So, these are my requirements for the "perfect" location for the Lab: a moderate to heavily populated city with a stable resource base (lots of power and water) and a University, in a country which is peaceful, politically stable, geologically stable (even if you don't build underground, seismic activity is bad for high-tech equipment :), and isn't heavily armed or paranoid about national security. I think Edmonton would be perfect, except for the large army base to the north of town (which has now built houses on the runway that used to be a backup landing strip for the space shuttle, darn it). We even have the world's largest shopping mall (I think whoever is doing that story where the characters go to Calgary is confused. Edmontonians hate being confused with Calgary, which does have some very nice malls (if you like that sort of thing) but nothing nearly as big as West Edmonton Mall. Much as I hate to admit it, though, Calgary does meet my criteria just as well as Edmonton. Of course, so do Saskatoon and Winnipeg). There must be lots of British candidates, and I'm sure Shaun has Australian possiblities. Anyone else have suggestions? Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 00:14:50 -0600 (CST) Jane raised a lot of interesting points about the lab: 1. As a home I sort of pictured it as a TP bacholer pad of sorts- somewhere to live when they're younger, but that they move out of as they get married, want more privacy, or more independence. As the society would advance (say they come back sometime after Stones), it becomes more of waystation- a place for Adam to live until he figures out a way to just move to England and be done with it (he spends more time there than Australia or even the Spaceship, I'd assume), for whoever to crash when their parents are driving them crazy, fighting, or if they come from abusive homes (no one we've seen so far, but statistically....) I think TIM could feed as many as they need, it's the bedroom space limitation I suspect that would be the limiting factor. 2. Wharehouse/base of operations/social place This is pretty much what the original lab was. I think these will probably always be pretty important functions. I think conference rooms would be a bit extreme (most of the people the TP's would negotiate with would either have their own facilities or prefer more neutral territory). 3. Security from saps Absolutely, you never know what evil uses they're going to find for seemingly harmless technology. I mean, it takes creativity, but you can even use optically active molecules for evil if you set your mind to (or your villian's mind to it). Therefore, it would probably be a good idea to only let "trusted" saps in- ie so's, parents, Lefty, or either of the Harding brothers.... As for where it is, does it really matter? Logically, though, anyone who lived there full time would want to work in the same time zone as their circadian rhythms could get really ardvarked up otherwise. Just my 2-whatevers worth. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 08:24:50 +0200 (EET) Beth >That's what matter transmitter bands are for, silly! I was actually thinking of a base for the new series TP, and anyway matter transmitter bands might still be susceptible to jamming. There is nothing simpler than a physical exit, and if you wanted to provide for only "one way" use, a series of "airlocks" should provide the desired security. By the way don't matter transmitter bands require a TP to operate them. Psi dampen their powers and the bands should be non-operational. Jane Starr >I guess the defining reason for putting the Lab anyplace is, what is its purpose? I see your idea and my idea of the purposes and location of a TP base are very similar. With regards to how big the base is/got as more TP arrived I would suggest that as their numbers increase the number of bases would increase. That would help with security - not having all your TP's in one place. For example, once the TP got to say 40 -60 in number three bases- UK, Canada, Australia would probably be quite good. Of course when you are talking this number of TP you are going to have to start considering things like how their community will be structured. Do they continue to blend in with *normal* humans or do many of them stay attached to the base? My proposal would be that while several of them would have to be commited to running the base most could continue to blend in with the rest of humanity, watching for other TP's and perhaps even slowly preparing to reveal their existance. And they would need a source of finances which would stand up to a thorough examination. Imagine the old TP getting found out because the English equivalent of the IRS wanted to know where all Johns money was disappearing to. Of course these days TIM could probably avoid this by interfering electronically with computer records. In fact with our increasingly computerised society you would need a computer capable of, for instance, putting your name onto an aircraft passenger list/immigration register so that if the authorities did pick you up you could prove you were in the country legally. I think this sort of point regarding computers has been made in Highlander with respect to the Immortals inventing new lifes for themselves. Damn, I keep getting lots of useful ideas for more stories writing away like this. I think I had better get back to my WORK. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 09:04:32 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Michael Edmonds wrote: > By the way don't matter transmitter bands require a TP to operate them. > Psi dampen their powers and the bands should be non-operational. I'm not sure about that. Chris managed to use one on his own in Doomsday Men, but then, that was a prototype, and the TP were so ticked off at him that maybe John built safeguards into later versions. I think they might need TIM to be active, though, even if he isn't cooperating. If he goes down you could be in trouble. > as their numbers increase the number of bases would increase. That > would help with security - not having all your TP's in one place. Agreed. Even if there is only one base, having all your TP living in one place (even one city) is foolish. In addition, proximity seems to play a role in the detection of new TP in the old series - I think it quite likely that the early signs of breaking out could be missed in a new TP very remote from any of the existing TP. Having everyone spread out means more likelihood that new TP are recognized early and assisted. Where the bases go may depend on where there are more kids breaking out, if there is any pattern at all. Would they provide a copy of TIM for each base? Or would the original TIM run all the bases? Or would they build new computers along the same model that could work together or independently? I tend to think the latter - TIM is amazing, but running three or more widely separated bases seems a bit much. Also gives potential for in-jokes - the Australians could call theirs Bruce (or Matilda), the Canadians could use... er, I'll have to think about that for a while. Nelvana, maybe. > My proposal would be that while several of them would have to be commited > to running the base most could continue to blend in with the rest of > humanity, watching for other TP's and perhaps even slowly preparing to > reveal their existance. Base duty should be on a rotating basis as much as possible so the ones running the base keep in touch with the outside world. It's possible to cover for that sort of thing - holidays, sabbaticals, pretending you're going on humanitarian missions to the third world. Be a scheduling nightmare, and you'd have to build in flexibility for illness (including family), pregnancy, etc. but TIM should be able to cope. Especially if a lot of the TP set themselves up as self-employed, or working from home, or something like that. The teachers could use part of their long vacation (not all of it - anyone who does that job needs SOME time off to vegetate). Or people could do it part-time, like the Armed Forces Reserves. > And they would need a source of finances which > would stand up to a thorough examination. Imagine the old TP getting found > out because the English equivalent of the IRS wanted to know where all > Johns money was disappearing to. It has happened before. Wasn't it Al Capone who was nailed, not by the cops, but by the IRS? The tax people are pretty heavily computerized (well, Revenue Canada is, so I assume the others are as well), though, so I expect , as Michael suggests, that TIM can fiddle the records. The more things are computerized, the easier time the TP will have. Where they're going to run into trouble is anyplace that still keeps a paper audit trail. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 19:22:45 +0200 (EET) >Would they provide a copy of TIM for each base? Or would the original TIM >run all the bases? Or would they build new computers along the same model >that could work together or independently? I tend to think the latter - >TIM is amazing, but running three or more widely separated bases seems a >bit much. Actually, maybe a mixture of both. If it was some sort of parallel computing set up (linked either electronically or even telepathically) they could be almost be considered one computer. > Also gives potential for in-jokes - the Australians could call >theirs Bruce (or Matilda), the Canadians could use... er, I'll have to >think about that for a while. Nelvana, maybe. Nelvana? Must be a Canadian in joke? I like this idea. I can just imagine a computer called Maltilda! (In fact, it sounds a bit scary) >Where the >bases go may depend on where there are more kids breaking out, if there >is any pattern at all. I've been thinking about the idea of having them work out a pattern to the TPs/break outs but at the moment I think it is more fun if it is sort of a random occurance with people from all nationalities breaking out. Although I guess you could create reasons for why no Russian or Chinese etc TP's have shown up in the new series (yet). One problem if they do start to get a mix of nationalities is a real clash of cultures. Another "good" reason to have individual bases maybe. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 11:26:50 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Michael Edmonds wrote: > > Also gives potential for in-jokes - the Australians could call > >theirs Bruce (or Matilda), the Canadians could use... er, I'll have to > >think about that for a while. Nelvana, maybe. > Nelvana? Must be a Canadian in joke? Nelvana of the Northern Lights - comic book heroine of the 40s, back when Canada had an indigenous comic book industry (actually, we have one now again, but it is very small compared to the US giants). The animation company Nelvana is named for her. I was drawing a blank on this - most of the Canadian names that non-Canadians would know are figures of ridicule - like all those cartoon and Hollywood mounties (in which category I do not count Due South, a show which I thought was brilliant, but you couldn't really name a computer after Benton Fraser, even though you probably could get it to say "thank you kindly," not that anyone I know really says that) - or too obscure for anyone else to get the joke. Obviously, Nelvana was too obscure too :). Could go to scientists or humanitarians, I suppose. Banting? Best? Bethune? Alexander Graham Bell? Or explorers: MacKenzie is a possiblity. C'mon, there are other canucks on this list. Beth? Help me out, here. > One problem if they do start to get > a mix of nationalities is a real clash of cultures. Another "good" reason > to have individual bases maybe. I don't see this as much of a problem. Many cultures can co-exist peacefully, and do in many parts of the world, even if they can't do it in their own homelands. They even learn how to enjoy the best bits of each other's cultures (food, for example). And anyone who makes it to TP is unlikely to perpetuate any of the religious/ethnic conflicts of their peoples. I don't think the really dogmatic, violent types will break out. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-tpdis@xmission.com Date: 28 Oct 1996 12:41:12 -0700 (MST) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 15:05:05 -0600 (CST) Jane said (out of order): >I don't think the really dogmatic, violent types will break out. As John said in The Blue and the Green: "Tomorrow People don't have any violent energy, only the Saps have that." Of course they wouldn't! The really dogmatic, violent types wouldn't be TP's! >C'mon, there are other canucks on this list. Beth? Help me out, here. Unless Beth Halliday suddenly joined the list, I'll assume you're talking about me. Which brings a minor problem: I'm from the US. I know why you're confused however: there are two Carletons: Carleton *University* in Canada somewhere and Carleton *College* in Northfield, MN, where I'm typing this from. Sorry, can't help. Carleton *College* rocks. Beth PS Just trying to clear up any confusion. No offense taken, well, not much, anyway. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their b Date: 28 Oct 1996 16:05:59 -0500 (EST) >>think about that for a while. Nelvana, maybe. >Nelvana? Must be a Canadian in joke? >I like this idea. I can just imagine a computer called Maltilda! >(In fact, it sounds a bit scary) Perhaps a second British computer could be named Hollie or Ollie? John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 15:02:18 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > >C'mon, there are other canucks on this list. Beth? Help me out, here. > Unless Beth Halliday suddenly joined the list, I'll assume you're talking about > me. Which brings a minor problem: I'm from the US. I know why you're confused > however: there are two Carletons: Carleton *University* in Canada somewhere and > Carleton *College* in Northfield, MN, where I'm typing this from. Sorry, can't > help. Carleton *College* rocks. Rats. I didn't know there were two Carletons. Sigh. I'm on my own on this one, aren't I? Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 21:35:34 GMT I just got a weird error message back from the mailing list when I first sent this, so I'm trying again. Sorry if any/everyone else has already received it. In message starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca writes: > > And they would need a source of finances which > > would stand up to a thorough examination. Imagine the old TP getting found > > out because the English equivalent of the IRS wanted to know where all > > Johns money was disappearing to. > It has happened before. Wasn't it Al Capone who was nailed, not by the > cops, but by the IRS? The tax people are pretty heavily computerized > (well, Revenue Canada is, so I assume the others are as well), though, so > I expect , as Michael suggests, that TIM can fiddle the records. The more > things are computerized, the easier time the TP will have. Where they're > going to run into trouble is anyplace that still keeps a paper audit > trail. I would imagine that John has a company based in the Channel Islands, possibly using 'The Sark Lark'. The Inland Revenue was not computerised until about the mid 1980s I think, but I would think there would still be plenty of paper records. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 15:33:56 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Jeremy Rogers wrote: > I would imagine that John has a company based in the Channel Islands, > possibly using 'The Sark Lark'. Okay, I'll be the dummy. What's "The Sark Lark" - some sort of offshore tax dodge, I assume, but there must be more to it. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy M. O'Neal" Subject: Who is TIM? Date: 28 Oct 1996 17:39:36 -0600 (CST) I'm probably going to get laughed at and riddculed, but I have never seen the Old TP and must know "What is TIM?" I have some basic thoughts but I need more input. Tim O'Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their b Date: 28 Oct 1996 16:05:59 -0500 (EST) >>think about that for a while. Nelvana, maybe. >Nelvana? Must be a Canadian in joke? >I like this idea. I can just imagine a computer called Maltilda! >(In fact, it sounds a bit scary) Perhaps a second British computer could be named Hollie or Ollie? John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Hately Subject: Re: Who is TIM? Date: 29 Oct 1996 11:43:00 -0800 Timothy M. O'Neal wrote: > I'm probably going to get laughed at and riddculed, but I have never seen > the Old TP and must know "What is TIM?" I have some basic thoughts but I > need more input. > In essence TIM is the old series TP computer. It looks like a box with lighted domes on top of it (or underneath it). If I recall correctly, it was originally fixed to the ceiling of the Lab, but later on moved around it on wheels (no flames if I am wrong, please. It has been a LOOONG time.) TIM is highly intelligencet, and has full powers of speech, and was a character in 'his' own right. Shaun Hately drednort@geocities.com drednort@bud.swin.edu.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their b Date: 29 Oct 1996 08:17:58 +0200 (EET) >Hollie or Ollie? O.K. this time I'll play the dummy. I don't get it. Please explain. In fact I know it might spoil it a little but when people come up with these clever names it might be worth attaching an explanation considering the diverse backgrounds of everyone on the list Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 28 Oct 1996 07:09:38 GMT In message starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca writes: > On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Jeremy Rogers wrote: > > I would imagine that John has a company based in the Channel Islands, > > possibly using 'The Sark Lark'. > Okay, I'll be the dummy. What's "The Sark Lark" - some sort of offshore > tax dodge, I assume, but there must be more to it. I can't remember all the ins and outs but I think it is something like if you base your company in Sark it doesn't need to publish accounts. The drawback is that one director must be a resident. There are people in Sark who are directors of about 500 companies. Sark is an interesting place; it is still run on fuedal lines and motor transport is banned, although there are tractors. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kyrie Daniels" Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 29 Oct 1996 00:15:20 -0300 Michael Edmonds writes: > Another thought. What about San Francisco? A colleague just returned from > Berkeley and said that in San Francisco basically anything goes. With so > much weirdness going on around them the TP's could look positively normal! > (This is not meant as an insult, just a (possibly erroneous) observation) Berkeley is weirder than SF. :) But while I certainly agree with this, I think the actual theory is that this logic only applies exclusively to programs broadcast stateside by Fox. Their fictional characters in SF by law must be somehow connected to sci-fi. In reality, I suppose people like myself and my classmates are as close to sci-fi as SF gets. Although I do find it odd that SFSU does not have a sci-fi club.... But I *am* getting the TP to SF in TF (how's that for a lot of acronyms for you?). It's law, I think, to set things there where one lives in that universe. I vote for Hawaii, personally, regarding good locale for their base. Just not Oahu, because of all the military bases there. Maybe someplace like Lanai or Molokai that isn't very developed. They can teleport, so it's not like they have to worry about how to get around. And in the areas populated with all the aging hippies, I'm sure they'd assume any teleportations they run into were just acid flashbacks. :) Kyrie Daniels SLFIC List Manager/temp TPDIS & TPFICT List Manager "Do *not* open the inter-dimensional doorway! There is a monster inside!" Dexter's Laboratory ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Another web page.... Date: 29 Oct 1996 10:42:17 -0600 (CST) I was procrastinating on alta vista with a TP search and I found this page: http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~davej/ttp/ Someone tell me if the detailed description for John is as scary as I think it is..... Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Donna Kirking Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 29 Oct 1996 10:14:56 -0800 Actually, I was thinking Berkeley would be a great place for the lab. The People's Republic of Berkeley has even institutionalized pacifism and they check the garbage for radioactive waste. You should have seen it when they spotted some radioactive material at the dump a few years ago - such a fuss. It turned out to be from the litter box of some poor cat that had had some radioisotope testing of its gastrointestinal tract. So it would have to be Berkeley, not San Francisco. Berkeley and San Francisco are very different, even though they only have the bay between them. Nothing is too strange for Berkeley, San Francisco is really very staid in comparison. Kyrie, if you are looking for science fiction in the bay area, you might want to check out The Other Change of Hobbit and Dark Carnival bookstores in Berkeley the next time you are on this side of the bay. Not only do they have lots of great books, but you can often find out about local sci-fi events going on. And I know Dark Carnival sometimes has authors in for readings and book signings. And in May BayCon '97 is taking place in San Jose. You can get more information on it at http://www.baycon.org/. >> Another thought. What about San Francisco? A colleague just returned from >> Berkeley and said that in San Francisco basically anything goes. With so >> much weirdness going on around them the TP's could look positively normal! >> (This is not meant as an insult, just a (possibly erroneous) observation) > >Berkeley is weirder than SF. :) But while I certainly agree with >this, I think the actual theory is that this logic only applies >exclusively to programs broadcast stateside by Fox. Their fictional >characters in SF by law must be somehow connected to sci-fi. > >Kyrie Daniels Donna Kirking El Cerrito, CA, USA dkirking@earthlink.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their b Date: 29 Oct 1996 14:01:53 -0500 (EST) >>Hollie or Ollie?>> > >O.K. this time I'll play the dummy. I don't get it. Please explain. It's a reference to the computer on Red Dwarf, a rather "unusual" British science fiction show. >In fact I know it might spoil it a little but when people come up with >these clever names it might be worth attaching an explanation considering >the diverse backgrounds of everyone on the list. I would spoil the fun! John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 29 Oct 1996 14:15:05 -0800 Kyrie sputtereth: >But I *am* getting the TP to SF in TF (how's that for a lot of >acronyms for you?). In PF? >It's law, I think, to set things there where one lives in that >universe. Either that, or a TF TIJ :) Teachers always say to write about what you know. I wonder what that says about we who write TP fic? >I vote for Hawaii, personally, regarding good locale for their base. Trouble is, it's not very geologically stable. It would not be the place for underground labs. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: We who write TP fiction (was RE: Where should the TP have their base) Date: 29 Oct 1996 16:20:51 -0600 (CST) Wendy said: > Teachers always say to write about what you know. We had some professional authors come for a panel discussion, and they say that the converse is good advice- know what you write. >I wonder what that says about we who write TP fic? The teacher's version says we all *wish* we knew about TP stuff. The author version says we know a lot about TP and what their characters would do. Or you could just say that deep down we're all wishing to break out. Ok, maybe not so deep down. I'll quit wasting bandwith now and go do something productive (work on a TP story :). Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 29 Oct 1996 14:29:45 -0800 Beth asked: >Someone tell me if the detailed description for John is as scary as I >think it is..... The page looked well done, altho it was hard to read the text against the background and the ep guide was *way* off. I didn't think John's description was particulary scary. Why do you think it is? I liked his comment about how all the TP pages seem to be linked together. I wonder if he knows it was planned that way... :) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: We who write TP fiction (was RE: Where should the TP have Date: 29 Oct 1996 14:36:40 -0800 Beth said: >We had some professional authors come for a panel discussion, and >they say that the converse is good advice- know what you write. That's a good idea too. I think that's what teachers mean ... or should mean :) >The author version says we know a lot about TP and what their >characters would do. Is it possible to know too much? >Or you could just say that deep down we're all wishing to break out. Yeah... what's this "deep down" stuff? >I'll quit wasting bandwith now and go do something productive (work >on a TP story :). Good idea. I'm glad to see you have your priorities straight :) Perhaps I'll go work on mine too. Any bets on my ability to get Atropos done tonight, now that the hell-portion of my school year is over? (I had to write a story for my fiction class and just had the critique and workshop for it today. Amazingly enough, the Prof *liked* it! That's a first.) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 29 Oct 1996 17:05:04 -0600 (CST) Wendy said: >The page looked well done, altho it was hard to read the text against >the background Something one wouldn't notice when using Lynx. :) >and the ep guide was *way* off. I didn't even look at that. >I didn't think John's >description was particulary scary. Why do you think it is? Did you read the detailed one? The one that said he was sort of a sexist (I think the words "sort of" were used, anyway). Something about him refferring to 'girls'. I disagree with this for two reasons: firstly, the only time I can think of John saying something like that was in "Slaves of Jedikiah", and he was only doing it to tease Carol. Secondly, the term may not be PC today, but it was certainly perfectly acceptable in 1973! Maybe I'm the only one annoyed by this. (I've got to go look at this in Netscape now, though.) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Hately Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 30 Oct 1996 10:50:39 -0800 Tigger wrote: > > Wendy said: > >The page looked well done, altho it was hard to read the text against > >the background > > Something one wouldn't notice when using Lynx. :) I was also using Netscape, and I didn' find it hard to read. I liked some of the animated pictures. > >and the ep guide was *way* off. > I didn't even look at that. Nor did I. Not that i would have known anyway. > >I didn't think John's > >description was particulary scary. Why do you think it is? > > Did you read the detailed one? The one that said he was sort of a sexist (I > think the words "sort of" were used, anyway). Something about him refferring > to 'girls'. I disagree with this for two reasons: firstly, the only time I can > think of John saying something like that was in "Slaves of Jedikiah", and he > was only doing it to tease Carol. Secondly, the term may not be PC today, but > it was certainly perfectly acceptable in 1973! I didn't agree with that description either. I can't see John as a sexist. Shaun Hately drednort@bud.swin.edu.au drednort@geocities.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kyrie Daniels" Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 29 Oct 1996 16:47:39 -0300 > Kyrie sputtereth: I do not sputter. I spout. :) > >It's law, I think, to set things there where one lives in that > >universe. > > Either that, or a TF TIJ :) Teachers always say to write about what > you know. I wonder what that says about we who write TP fic? The SF part for me was sheer coincidence. I still won't set anything in most of the places I've lived. > >I vote for Hawaii, personally, regarding good locale for their base. > > Trouble is, it's not very geologically stable. It would not be the > place for underground labs. Ahh...but wouldn't that therefore make it one of the last places anyone would look? Couldn't they turn the ship into some sort of sub? Or better yet, couldn't they simply move into the isolated areas where they would never be run into? Kind of the Witch Mountain type of thing, I suppose, where they base themselves somewhere secluded and then opt to assimilate with the rest of the world as they desire. With teleportation that would be easy enough. IOW, does it *need* to be underground, or was that simply what ended up happening? Kyrie Daniels SLFIC List Manager/temp TPDIS & TPFICT List Manager "Do *not* open the inter-dimensional doorway! There is a monster inside!" Dexter's Laboratory ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: We who write TP fiction (was RE: Where should the TP have their base) Date: 29 Oct 1996 20:20:17 -0500 (EST) Beth wrote: > Wendy said: > > Teachers always say to write about what you know. > We had some professional authors come for a panel discussion, and they say > that the converse is good advice- know what you write. Very true. I've started a few stories in my time, but the only ones I've ever finished (and been really proud of) have been based on material I'm fascinated by. > >I wonder what that says about we who write TP fic? > The teacher's version says we all *wish* we knew about TP stuff. Shows how much teachers know! :-) The author > version says we know a lot about TP and what their characters would do. That's the version I'd rather believe. > Or you could just say that deep down we're all wishing to break out. Ok, maybe > not so deep down. Don't you hear those voices in your head when you walk down the street, calling your name? You mean it's just me?! > I'll quit wasting bandwith now and go do something productive (work on a TP > story :). Ah ha! Thank you, Beth. You've given me a prompt. I'll explain in the next e-mail. Be seeing you, Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 29 Oct 1996 20:28:16 -0500 (EST) Hello, all! Thanks to some helpful pointing, after a long, extensive search for TP newsgroups and the like, I have finally made my way to this list. I've enjoyed what I've read in my first couple of days here. But, anyhoo... let me get to my point. Ever since I learned that ITV wasn't planning to renew TP, I've wanted to put together a hardcopy fanzine, in the vein of the DW inspired Trenchcoat series, that continued that show onwards until FOX intervened. My problem was finding like minded individuals who could help. First of all, does anyone apart from me not think that this is a hare-brained idea? Second, if not, would any of you out there be interested in contributing? Please? Orange juice and cookies for all who do! (Oops, that may not be incentive... :-) ) Be seeing you, Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 29 Oct 1996 20:48:23 -0500 Did any of you see that page with an Animated GIF capapble browser? Those graphics were amazing! The first image was a repeat of the beginning of the old TP sequence, where the Tomorrow People appears on the screen four times, then seperates out. The second one was really big, with a miniature figure (with bell bottoms), disappearing and reappearing at certain places. Those weren't just nice, they were professional. Anyway... :) Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 29 Oct 1996 20:20:34 -0800 >Did you read the detailed one? The one that said he was sort of a >sexist (I think the words "sort of" were used, anyway). Something >about him refferring to 'girls'. I saw that. I thought it odd, but not particularly scary. Then again, I never really liked John. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 29 Oct 1996 20:49:42 -0800 Darryl sayeth: >First of all, does anyone apart from me not think that this is a >hare-brained idea? I like the idea. Some of us started with a similiar idea of continuing the show in fanfic. That was my intention with "The Atropos Project" (notice, I even start it with the breakout of a new character) which then got swallowed by the TF universe, and sorta accomplished the same goal anyway. ;) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 29 Oct 1996 21:05:20 -0800 Shaun said: >I was also using Netscape, and I didn' find it hard to read. I liked >some of the animated pictures. That could be the difference. I'm still using some weird version of Mosaic, put out by my ISP. Sometimes text colours are translated weirdly. I've noticed that often text programmed as black comes through my browser as white, and vice versa. I also don't get to see any of the animations. All they do is lock up my computer. I was wondering about the main gif. It looked, on my browser, like a blown up portion of one of the "O"s in Tomorrow People, but that's all I got out of it. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 00:05:25 -0600 (CST) Wendy said: >Then again, I never really liked John. Really? Why? Admittedly, he can be a little cold sometimes, but generally he's pretty good. It's Hsui Tai that bugs me. Too much of a submissive Dr Who companion. *bounce* This should be a fun thread. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 08:28:32 +0200 (EET) I know its been said before but I'll say it again - Carol was definitely the most irritating character, at least from my point of view. My favourite characters would have to be TIM, John, Elizabeth and Andrew. The rest were OK, Stephen's ego was a bit much though (I just watched Worlds Away) and I can't remember much of Hsui Tai (?) Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 19:49:25 +1100 (EST) I really liked John. He seemed so solid, and dependable. I had an incredible crush on Liz. I liked Stephen as well, but he seemed a bit too smug at times. The only TP who I didn't really like was Mike. I didn't notice this until the last time I saw the TP. He just annoyed me. I felt like bashing his head against a wall a few times. I don't even know why! I don't really remember most of the other TP well enough to comment on them. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/8017/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 30 Oct 1996 05:40:13 -0500 (EST) >I liked his comment about how all the TP pages seem to be linked >together. I wonder if he knows it was planned that way... :) Is the author of this page a member of this list? If not, has anyone told him about this list yet? I'll try to check his page out tonight, but Netcom is very slow... and I'm in a foul mood (bad news on the interview front... :( ) and working on getting pissed (British usage) as a result. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Where should the TP have their base? Date: 30 Oct 1996 09:19:13 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, Kyrie Daniels wrote: > > Either that, or a TF TIJ :) Teachers always say to write about what > > you know. I wonder what that says about we who write TP fic? I have an SF writing friend who once took a writing course from a moderately famous (even outside Canada) Canadian writer who automatically trashed everything she wrote because it was SF, and you HAVE to write what you know and how could she possibly KNOW this stuff. Sheesh. > The SF part for me was sheer coincidence. I still won't set anything > in most of the places I've lived. My problem with writing (I do, but don't hold your breath to see it - so far it is uniformly awful and anyway, I haven't been able to finish a single story) about places I don't know (like London) is that I've never been there. It drives me mad when an author makes stupid mistakes in describing a place I know, and I tend to assume that others feel the same way. > IOW, does it *need* to be underground, or was that simply what ended > up happening? I don't think it needs to be underground, as long as you can control who looks in the windows (or at least what they see). There are other reasons for geological stability - in an earthquake even above ground buildings can be damaged, water and power connections disrupted, fires started and furniture and equipment fall over. There are, of course, things you can do in designing and building any structure to minimize this sort of thing. There was a really interesting show on tv last week about exactly that. It comes down to cost/risk/benefit analysis. Are the benefits of living in Hawaii (or any other potential location) greater than the risks and the cost of compensating for those risks? Seismic activity is only one risk. Tropical storms, hurricanes, blizzards, extreme heat or cold, water pressure, if you decide to build undersea, lack of air and solar flares, if you decide to use a space station or the moon, social and political unrest if you decide to hide in the slums of Rio or Los Angeles. You have to consider all the factors. And then you probably chuck it all out the window and move to Hawaii anyway . Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 11:12:42 -0600 (CST) Hey, Shaun....just make sure you don't let these violent tendencies overtake you too much...you may never break out that way. ;) Marcell _____________________________________________________________________________ Marcell J. Elsegood Elsegood@ttu.edu Hornist, occasional writer (music/lit), Latin student. Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "This will be our Zeta Sigma Chapter, Texas Tech U. reply to violence: Spring 1994 OAS,AAS,LLS! to make music more intensely, more beautifully, "Non omnes qui habent cornum sunt more devotedly, cornicines" - adapted quote from Varro than ever before." -Leonard Bernstein "Forget belief systems; forget the parameters of rational thinking as it so smugly is called, and feel, my friend, feel..." K.A.R.R. (from Knight Rider) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 30 Oct 1996 13:05:48 -0500 (EST) Loraine wrote: > Darryl sayeth: > > >First of all, does anyone apart from me not think that this is a > >hare-brained idea? > > I like the idea. Some of us started with a similiar idea of > continuing the show in fanfic. That was my intention with "The > Atropos Project" (notice, I even start it with the breakout of a new > character) which then got swallowed by the TF universe, and sorta > accomplished the same goal anyway. ;) I have to admit, I haven't gotten around to reading a lot of the TF stuff I've seen yet (I have managed to read the first couple of parts of "Atropos", though. Quite good!). But, correct me if I'm wrong (it *wouldn't* be the first time), doesn't TF kinda sorta revamp the TP universe (i.e. shifting it a bit into the future and merging it with Highlander)? I wanted to keep the feel of the television series a bit more, although perhaps mature it a bit and soften the emphasis on over-the-top characters -- kinda like the direction the series was going in during Season 3, IMHO. Just to be clear, this is *NOT* an attack on TF. I think TF is an interesting idea (and I do plan on reading it), but it doesn't quite fit the purpose I had in mind for my zine. I hope no toes were stepped on in the course of this e-mail! :-) Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 13:16:34 -0500 (EST) Beth wrote: > Wendy said: > >Then again, I never really liked John. > Really? Why? > Admittedly, he can be a little cold sometimes, but generally he's pretty good. > It's Hsui Tai that bugs me. Too much of a submissive Dr Who companion. Sarah Jane, anyone? :-) From what little I remember of the old series, there were three characters that really annoyed me: Carol, Kenny, and Tyso. Now if want to move this thread up to the new series, I never liked Kevin (tooannoying for my tastes), and particularly Ami (is it possible for Naomi Harris to do intense emotions *without* wailing and flailing her arms?). > *bounce* This should be a fun thread. Indeed. Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 13:35:35 -0600 (CST) Darryl said: > particularly Ami (is it possible for >Naomi Harris to do intense emotions *without* wailing and flailing her >arms?) Yes, but it wouldn't be as much fun that way. :) To get into the new series, it's Lisa who bugged me. (Her and Lucy, but Lucy wasn't a TP so it's OK.) And why is everyone picking on poor Carol and Tyso? :) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 30 Oct 1996 20:33:01 GMT In message <01IB7NIMOY2A8WW7E0@carleton.edu> Tigger writes: > Someone tell me if the detailed description for John is as scary as I > think it is..... There is supposed to be a number of TP slash fiction stories written that might be a lot more scary to most. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 13:05:32 -0800 I said: >>Then again, I never really liked John. Beth asked: >Really? Why? I always thought he was an uppity priss. He bossed everyone around and talked down to them. Not to mention, I had the biggest crush on Andrew and I *hated* the way John treated him :) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 30 Oct 1996 13:09:56 -0800 John asked: >Is the author of this page a member of this list? I don't know. I don't think so. >If not, has anyone told him about this list yet? Can't answer that one either. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 30 Oct 1996 13:27:33 -0800 I said: >> Atropos Project" (notice, I even start it with the breakout of a >>new character) which then got swallowed by the TF universe, and >>sorta accomplished the same goal anyway. ;) Then Darryl said: >But, correct me if I'm wrong (it *wouldn't* be the first time), >doesn't TF kinda sorta revamp the TP universe (i.e. shifting it a bit >into the future and merging it with Highlander)? I wanted to keep >the feel of the television series a bit more, TF doesn't really *revamp* the universe, but it does change some of the more minor premeses (like changing the date of the stories). And not every TF story includes Highlander (like Atropos). I was just using that as one example of people writing to continue to series, like you suggested. "Atropos" wasn't originally TF; it joined the universe later. We are still trying to keep the feel of the series; tho with only five serials that kept changing the feel anyway, that's hard to do. Others are writting/have written stories that do what you suggested. Please don't read this wrong: I'm not arguing with you. I do like your idea. You're just not the first one to have it. I'm not sure there's enough creative drive to produce an independent fanzine for a fandom as small as ours (tho I would really like to be proven wrong). ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was R Date: 30 Oct 1996 16:39:53 -0500 (EST) I have a habit of belonging to a varied list of organizations. Some of them are nearly universally admired, other times attacked, and sometime accused of being part of various conspiracies... So Marcell signed off: > Marcell J. Elsegood ... > >Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "This will be our >Zeta Sigma Chapter, Texas Tech U. reply to violence: To which I comment in my .sig. I wonder... are any Tomorrow People musicians? Should there be one? Would they be a Sinfonian (Phi M A being a professional music fraternity)? There may be possibilities here... if I ever got past page one of anything! BTW... I hated Carol's whining and never could understand Kenny. John Pannell Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, Theta Iota Chapter (Spring '86) State University of New York at Potsdam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 18:17:46 -0600 (CST) >I always thought he was an uppity priss. He bossed everyone around >and talked down to them. The only one... er, two, er... usually when he did it he was either really angry/worried or teasing. (He teased poor Stephen to death....) >Not to mention, I had the biggest crush on >Andrew and I *hated* the way John treated him :) It should be interesting to see what you make of the end of my story, then. (If you get that far. *wince*) Weirdly, John always seemed more mellow (except in the begining of WotE) towards Andrew. His tone was usually gentler, anyway. I still don't get why everyone was so anxious to make him quit wearing that kilt. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was R Date: 30 Oct 1996 18:21:47 -0600 (CST) John Pannell said: >I wonder... are any Tomorrow People musicians? Should there be one? Would >they be a Sinfonian (Phi M A being a professional music fraternity)? > You forgot poor Mike! Ok, so he's not exactly professional, but he's better than John gives him credit for.... (Hmm, maybe his last name's Pan- or maybe I've had too much sugar.:) Why *shouldn't* there be a TP musician? 'Course, they couldn't telepot anywhere in public when they're on foreign tours or anything. Actually, imagine if Mike had hit it big. Trying to be inconspicous on missions would be pretty hard. Then again, it would get the youngest of the TP's away from lab duty for awhile. :) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 30 Oct 1996 19:22:08 -0500 (EST) Wendy wrote: > I said: > > >> Atropos Project" (notice, I even start it with the breakout of a > >>new character) which then got swallowed by the TF universe, and > >>sorta accomplished the same goal anyway. ;) > > Then Darryl said: > > >But, correct me if I'm wrong (it *wouldn't* be the first time), > >doesn't TF kinda sorta revamp the TP universe (i.e. shifting it a bit > >into the future and merging it with Highlander)? I wanted to keep > >the feel of the television series a bit more, > > TF doesn't really *revamp* the universe, but it does change some of > the more minor premeses (like changing the date of the stories). And > not every TF story includes Highlander (like Atropos). I was just > using that as one example of people writing to continue to series, > like you suggested. "Atropos" wasn't originally TF; it joined the > universe later. We are still trying to keep the feel of the series; > tho with only five serials that kept changing the feel anyway, that's > hard to do. Granted, to a degree. I think that there was a pretty consistent feel to Season 3 (even if "Rameses" held on to the silliness of the previous two seasons a little too much for my taste). Like I said, I can't bash TF, since I haven't read much of it yet. And bashing TF wasn't what I was trying to do at all, really. > Others are writting/have written stories that do what you suggested. > Please don't read this wrong: I'm not arguing with you. I do like > your idea. You're just not the first one to have it. I'm not sure > there's enough creative drive to produce an independent fanzine for a > fandom as small as ours (tho I would really like to be proven wrong). Sorry! I honestly wasn't trying to suggest that it was my idea and my idea alone, though I can see how it appeared that way. And don't read this wrong, but I hope I'm able to prove you wrong! :-) So far, considering you're the only person who has responded to my call, I'm inclined to agree with you, though. But I'm not giving up just yet. Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 30 Oct 1996 19:25:27 -0500 (EST) Beth wrote: > To get into the new series, it's Lisa who bugged me. (Her and Lucy, but Lucy > wasn't a TP so it's OK.) Actually, I thought Kristin Ariza gave one of the two good perormances in TOS (Kristian Schmid giving the other). As for Lucy, I had no problems with the character. I had *tons* of problems with Laurence Bouvard, though! Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 31 Oct 1996 15:20:38 +1100 (EST) Darryl said: > Sorry! I honestly wasn't trying to suggest that it was my idea and my > idea alone, though I can see how it appeared that way. And don't read > this wrong, but I hope I'm able to prove you wrong! :-) So far, > considering you're the only person who has responded to my call, I'm > inclined to agree with you, though. But I'm not giving up just yet. Okay, I'll respond. I certainly like the idea and I'd love to see it work. I'd also be willing to help, except I haven't seen the new TP yet. The question is, how many TP fans are there and how do you find them? I know ten to twenty people personally who loved the 70s version, mostly through Chip programs, and who might be interested in such an idea, but you have to come up with a way of letting them know about it. Yours Without Wax, |'Dead clever of him,' said Wobbler. 'I Dreadnought |mean sitting down there in Hell, working / |out all the combat tables and everything. o=== ======================- |I bet he used to really swear every time \ |the dice caught fire . . .' drednort@bud.swin.edu.au | --Terry Pratchett http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/8017/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 30 Oct 1996 18:23:37 -0600 (CST) Jez said: >There is supposed to be a number of TP slash fiction stories written >that might be a lot more scary to most. Pardon my ignorance, if it's showing, but what do you mean by slash fiction? Bad horror film (ie Friday the 13th) type stuff? Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 08:42:04 +0200 (EET) On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > Jez said: > >There is supposed to be a number of TP slash fiction stories written > >that might be a lot more scary to most. > Pardon my ignorance, if it's showing, but what do you mean by slash fiction? > Bad horror film (ie Friday the 13th) type stuff? > Beth > You're not the only one. I certainly hope it isn't that type of fiction. Sounds ghastly. Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jeremy.rogers@aeat.co.uk (Jeremy Rogers) Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 08:32:20 GMT > Jez said: > >There is supposed to be a number of TP slash fiction stories written > >that might be a lot more scary to most. > Pardon my ignorance, if it's showing, but what do you mean by slash fiction? > Bad horror film (ie Friday the 13th) type stuff? Slash fan fiction contains explicit homosexual erotic material, pairing off two male characters. I only call it scary because many people would not have drawn that kind of interpretation from the original material. The name supposedly comes from the practice of how these would be titled, eg Stephen / Tyso (ie Stephen SLASH Tyso). Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 12:27:58 -0500 (EST) Michael wrote: > > Jez said: > > >There is supposed to be a number of TP slash fiction stories written > > >that might be a lot more scary to most. > > Pardon my ignorance, if it's showing, but what do you mean by slash fiction? > > Bad horror film (ie Friday the 13th) type stuff? > > Beth > > > You're not the only one. I certainly hope it isn't that type of fiction. > Sounds ghastly. Oh, dear... "slash" fiction is fanfic that deals with sexual relationships between characters in a series. These relationships are usually of a homosexual variety (the most famous form of slash fiction is Kirk/Spock fiction, for example). Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heidi8@cris.com (Heidi Tandy) Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 31 Oct 1996 13:04:25 -0500 Beth noted... > >Weirdly, John always seemed more mellow (except in the begining of WotE) >towards Andrew. His tone was usually gentler, anyway. I still don't get why >everyone was so anxious to make him quit wearing that kilt. It clashed with the bell bottoms. It looked out of place in discos. heidi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 12:51:14 -0600 (CST) >Slash fan fiction contains explicit homosexual erotic material, pairing off >two male characters. I only call it scary because many people would not have >drawn that kind of interpretation from the original material. Oh, like the junk that some of my other fanfic lists get? (And I delete right away as it's usually well marked as NC17.) The kind Wendy has so graciously saved us from by banning it from TPFICT? Um, yeah, I'd consider that much scarier- incest is a frightening thing. And this IS a kid's show. Primarily, anyway. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 20:10:48 GMT In message <01IBAKKIDXBC8WWR4L@carleton.edu> Tigger writes: > Oh, like the junk that some of my other fanfic lists get? (And I delete right > away as it's usually well marked as NC17.) Well that could be het as well. > The kind Wendy has so graciously saved us from by banning it from > TPFICT? It is not unusual for lists to have these restrictions. Incidentally there is an interview with Mike Holoway in the latest TV Zone. Very odd, as it was clearly carried out early this year if not late 1995! Some interesting titbits in it such as a description of his relationship with Nick Young as 'a controlled type of antagonistic'. (The article does manage to get the date TP started wrong, saying 1970!) Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Slash (was Re: Another web page) Date: 31 Oct 1996 19:41:42 +1100 (EST) Tigger wrote: > > Jez said: > >There is supposed to be a number of TP slash fiction stories written > >that might be a lot more scary to most. > Pardon my ignorance, if it's showing, but what do you mean by slash fiction? > Bad horror film (ie Friday the 13th) type stuff? No, some people would think it's worse. Any children reading this list would be advised not to continue after this spoiler space.... "Slash" fiction is homosexual erotic fiction. It is called "slash" because of the slash '/' character separating the names of the participants - e.g. Kirk/Spock slash fiction is about Kirk and Spock having the hots for each other. Personally, I find the idea obscene. Particularly for any of the TP characters! Most of them are kids! So you'd likely be dragging pedophilia into it as well. I hope nobody sends anything like that to the TPFIC list! -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 15:47:06 -0600 (CST) >Incidentally there is an interview with Mike Holoway in the latest TV >Zone. What's the issue number? I somehow doubt they're out in the states at exactly the same time. (BTW, I don't know about other states, but in Minnesota/Missouri TVZ/Starburst, etc are pretty hard to find, but I have a New York back issue address if anyone wants to try that- that's probably what I'll end up doing in a couple of months.:) Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 13:56:41 -0800 Beth asked what slash fiction is: It's same sex adult stories. They're called "slash" because the stories are Male/Male or Female/Female (note the slash between the two participants). I'm in shock that people are writing adult TP fic at all! ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PANNELLJ@delphi.com Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was R Date: 31 Oct 1996 16:43:19 -0500 (EST) >?And why is everyone picking on poor Carol and Tyso? :) I don't know about Tyso. I didn't mind him much. However, I did have trouble understanding him. Carol annoyed me in much the same way Ami annoys others. She was always so "over the top". She whined too much. She was annoying. Mike is another odd one. He had a rather poor background - socioeconomic status. Yet, he comes across as the dapper teenage heart-throb in later serials. This seems not in keeping with his supposed rather rough background. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was R Date: 31 Oct 1996 16:17:00 -0600 (CST) >Mike is another odd one. He had a rather poor background - socioeconomic >status. Yet, he comes across as the dapper teenage heart-throb in later >serials. This seems not in keeping with his supposed rather rough >background. How much later are we talking about? If you mean "Into the Unknown", well, yeah, it's a problem. But if you're talking about "Hearts of Sogguth" onward, well, wouldn't the TP have a softening influence on him? After all, in "One Law" John does say something about straightening Mike out? Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: TV Zone Date: 31 Oct 1996 14:35:05 -0800 <:wails:> And I just cancelled my subscription. We can't get any of the British zines around here. I'm going to have to hope they're being sold at the convention. Speaking of which, is anyone going to Visions this year? (Visions is a British sci-fi/comedy con held every Thanksgiving in Chicago) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: ADMIN: Slash Date: 31 Oct 1996 14:39:29 -0800 Ruby Red sayeth: >I hope nobody sends anything like that to the TPFIC list! They'd better not! It's specifically banned from being posted to the list. I will, however, post NC-17 stories (between consenting *adults*) directly to the web page. But I'm declaring right now, and consider this as official as it gets, if anyone posts an NC-17 story to the list, thae will be immediately unsubbed and forbidden from rejoining. There are simply too many minors on these lists. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 14:42:00 -0800 Beth sayeth: >> The kind Wendy has so graciously saved us from by banning it from >> TPFICT? Then Jez asked: >It is not unusual for lists to have these restrictions. Not really. Especially not on family-oriented lists. I'm on several lists that have similar restrictions. If they don't outright ban questionable stories, they always require them to be clearly marked in subject lines and in the story, so people who want to delete them can. ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: TV Zone Date: 31 Oct 1996 22:46:32 GMT In message <01IBAQP5FSS48WWV8D@carleton.edu> Tigger writes: > >Incidentally there is an interview with Mike Holoway in the latest TV > >Zone. > What's the issue number? Special #23. USA cover price $6.95, Canadian $8.50, UK GBP 3.25. "Hearts of Sogguth" is mentioned as his favourite story. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: Slash Date: 31 Oct 1996 22:45:56 GMT In message <199610312156.NAA28754@m2.sprynet.com> ladyslvr@sprynet.com writes: > I'm in shock that people are writing adult TP fic at all! Everyone grows up :) Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ladyslvr@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 31 Oct 1996 15:05:08 -0800 Shaun asked: >The question is, how many TP fans are there and how do you find them? TPDIS has 46 and TPFICT has 52. I don't know anymore off-list, tho I'm about to start working on my roommate. Oh... and Darryl... I wasn't trying to accuse you of taking full credit for a TP fanzine. In a perverse sort of Wendy-logic, I was trying to show you that because so many others had a similiar idea, it was a good one. :) ... W. Loraine ladyslvr@sprynet.com http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~ladyslvr Listowner: Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Assistant Listowner: Sliders Creative List Editor: ...ad infinitum http://www2.combase.com/~adinfin "I'm going to be Immortal until the day I die." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy M. O'Neal" Subject: Re: Liked/disliked characters (was RE: Another Web Page) Date: 31 Oct 1996 17:09:21 -0600 (CST) > > particularly Ami (is it possible for > >Naomi Harris to do intense emotions *without* wailing and flailing her > >arms?) > To get into the new series, it's Lisa who bugged me. (Her and Lucy, but Lucy > wasn't a TP so it's OK.) Who really annoyed me was Kevin. He would whine half the time! AURGH! I liked Lisa. She gave the show a bit of the American touch. Tim O'Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 16:33:27 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > Um, yeah, I'd consider that much scarier- incest is a frightening thing. > And this IS a kid's show. Primarily, anyway. Real incest *is* frightening (even between consenting adults), but this isn't real incest, since, strictly speaking, they aren't actually related. However they think about each other within the time of the series, feelings can change (not necessarily will). Myself, I'd rather they didn't, since it is nice to see people who are friends and care about each other on a platonic level, which is something we need more of. But there is also a very human need to connect on an intimate level with another person (and it's more than just sex), and I don't think we can deny them that just because they aren't real :) Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: TV Zone Date: 31 Oct 1996 19:42:36 +1900 (EST) Wendy wrote: > <:wails:> And I just cancelled my subscription. > > We can't get any of the British zines around here. I'm going to have > to hope they're being sold at the convention. > > Speaking of which, is anyone going to Visions this year? > (Visions is a British sci-fi/comedy con held every Thanksgiving in > Chicago) Maybe, maybe not... My oldest brother went last year and had a lot of fun (Had lunch with Paul Cornell and Hattie Hayridge, and met Brian Blessed and Sylvester McCoy. Not to mention shared an elevator with Sophie Aldred). He's mentioned dragging me a long this year if he goes, but he may not have the money to... Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: TV Zone Date: 31 Oct 1996 19:52:03 -0600 (CST) ><:wails:> And I just cancelled my subscription. *hug* Wait a month, then use the address/price guide in the last issue you got to order it as a back issue. Then wait forever (I ordered a Starburst with a new series TP article and all it was was two pages on CT that were more informed than the one in Starlog, but didn't have very different information). Actually, you might want to post the markup here, as the Starburst issues I have don't have the back issues/postage prices for TVZ in them (I just know it's the same company and address). Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: Another web page.... Date: 31 Oct 1996 19:57:15 -0600 (CST) Jane said: >But there >is also a very human need to connect on an intimate level with another >person (and it's more than just sex), and I don't think we can deny them >that just because they aren't real :) That doesn't mean they necissarily (sp?) need to connect that way *with each other*. I'd go into more depth, but the season finale of B5 is on soon, so I need to go. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darryl W Gillikin Subject: Re: Open call for TP writers (was Re: We who write TP fiction) Date: 31 Oct 1996 21:21:56 +1900 (EST) Wendy wrote: > Shaun asked: > > >The question is, how many TP fans are there and how do you find them? > > TPDIS has 46 and TPFICT has 52. I don't know anymore off-list, tho > I'm about to start working on my roommate. One of my best friends here at Radford University (I'm trying to get her to subscribe!), and the biggest name fan I can think of off list is Paul Cornell (Anyone read his DW novel "No Future"?). What I'm thinking about doing is sending off an ad to SFX (it has a nice little fanfic index at the end of each issue), as well as advertising on-line (rec.arts.sf.tv, rec.arts.drwho, and alt.tv.nickelodeon perhaps?). > Oh... and Darryl... I wasn't trying to accuse you of taking full > credit for a TP fanzine. In a perverse sort of Wendy-logic, I was > trying to show you that because so many others had a similiar idea, it > was a good one. :) Don't worry, Wendy. I'm sure Wendy-logic is nowhere near as perverse as, say, Darryl-logic! :-) Darryl dgilliki@runet.edu (How can you get your e-mails to come up as something other than "to tpdis@xmission" anyway?!?!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cynthia Holt Subject: TP eps Date: 31 Oct 1996 20:27:58 -0600 (CST) Howdy, I'm new to the list but a friend from the Net mentioned this might be the place to ask if anyone has all of the eps for both the original and new TP series'. I tried to get them from TC Kirkham at Tomorrow People International but lost my money and my blank tapes when he disappeared. I would reaaallly like to get copies of the eps if possible. Can anyone help?? Thanks, Cynthia Holt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: TP eps Date: 31 Oct 1996 21:10:54 -0600 (CST) Hi Cynthia. The person whom you need to email about tapes is Wendy Lorraine. Her email address is ladyslvr@sprynet.com. I ordered tapes from her last week, and although the pathetic US Mail hasn't delivered them to me yet, she'll be able to help you out. P.S...she's also the list administrator. Marcell J. Elsegood - Hornist, Latin student, music lover Brother of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia "Non omnes qui habent Zeta Sigma, Texas Tech, Spring 1994 cornum sunt cornicines" OAS, AAS, LLS -adapted Varro quote "Forget belief systems; forget the parameters of rational thinking as it so smugly is called, and feel, my friend, feel..." K.A.R.R. (from Knight Rider) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: TP connections (was Re: Another web page...) Date: 31 Oct 1996 22:06:25 -0700 (MST) On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, Tigger wrote: > Jane said: > >But there > >is also a very human need to connect on an intimate level with another > >person (and it's more than just sex), and I don't think we can deny them > >that just because they aren't real :) > That doesn't mean they necissarily (sp?) need to connect that way *with each > other*. Oh, no, I quite agree, and I think the possibilities are a great deal more interesting if they don't. I don't think they would unless their other options were extremely limited (say, by having to move to the Trig permanently, although, come to think of it, that didn't stop Carol finding someone outside the "family"). As of the end of the series, it is a very small group, even if you add in all the ones that disappeared to the Trig. But even at the relatively conservative rate of one new TP a year (which was how fast they were adding TP in the old series - I think it would have speeded up) there would be about 17 additional TP by now, give or take a few, not to mention the Saps, many of whom may be latent TP. All I'm saying is that they would be inclined to find people to share their lives with. > I'd go into more depth, but the season finale of B5 is on soon, so I need to > go. Sigh. I don't get to see it until day after tomorrow. I was successfully not thinking about it until you mentioned it. Jane Starr email: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca 9518 - 91 Street phone: 466-6004 Edmonton, AB, T6C 3P5 _On Spec : the Canadian Magazine of Speculative Writing_ http://www.greenwoods.com/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: TP connections (was Re: Another web page...) Date: 31 Oct 1996 23:51:09 -0600 (CST) Jane said: >(say, by having to move to the Trig >permanently, although, come to think of it, that didn't stop Carol finding >someone outside the "family") Oh, can't you just see John falling for that Lenda girl who's now an ambassoder for Preri? :) (Sorry, couldn't help it.) Beth