From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: Tomorrow People Screen saver. Date: 01 Feb 1998 13:04:25 +1100 > From: Temesha Chatman > > Use bitmap (BMP) files for IBMs. Great minds think alike. I created an > After Dark module for my computer, too.. :-) --Temesha After Dark is expensive though (at least it is here). There is a a program called Slide Show that is shareware and will do the same thing. It also allows the use of jpg image files which mean you can have more pictures (they take up less space) Try http://www.secondnature.com - that's where I got my copy/ And like many people I have a wondeful TP screensaver on my machine. I'm actually going to be programming up a proper screen saver at some stage - one you can just load up with no problems. BTW, I'm in #TomorrowPeople right now. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jane Starr Subject: Re: TPDIS: Well, I'm stumped Date: 01 Feb 1998 00:44:27 -0700 At 04:46 PM 1/31/98 +1100, Ruby Red wrote: >> I'm wondering if the person is remembering scenes from a different show. > >I think so. Doctor Who seems a pretty likely candidate. Though the >Doctor didn't go to Stonehenge, there was an adventure, one of the >Key To Time ones, which featured a Stone Circle rather significantly >in the episode. As for supernovas, well, space scenes, anyway. All to easy to mix up shows, especially if seen a long time ago. For many years I remembered a particularily excellent B&W episode of "Lost in Space" where they had to get inside these odd pepper-pot shaped robot thingies. I honestly think that's where my affection for LIS came from, because it is being shown on Space right now and I caught a couple of episodes for nostalgia's sake, and I can't think what I liked about it (although I was *very* young at the time :)). Many years later I bought a book, a novelization from a show I couldn't see in Canada but was quite fanatical about anyway, and had one of those "doh!" moments - the book was "Doctor Who and the Daleks." Unlike LIS, I can go back to even the oldest episodes of Dr. Who and enjoy them. In fact, I'm trying to hook my kids. What's the point in having kids if you can't warp their little minds? Anyway, I have a vague memory of a show with a roof and a nova, but I can't quite dredge the name out of memory. I'll let you know if I do. Unless it was the universe ending at Milliway's in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?" Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net 9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 check out the new ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: TPDIS: Well, I'm stumped Date: 01 Feb 1998 16:43:58 +1100 On Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:07:31PM -0500, Latimer84@aol.com wrote: > There was a movie very like "The Living Stones" called "The Seed People" > (talk about weird!). There were stars in that, and explosions, so that might > be the nova thing.... Not to mention the classic "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", the Doctor Who adventure "The Seeds of Doom" and so on. "Living Stones" wasn't an original idea, but they pulled it off pretty well. -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Waddell Subject: Re: TPDIS: Well, I'm stumped Date: 01 Feb 1998 11:23:10 GMT On Sun, 01 Feb 1998 00:44:27 -0700, you wrote: >At 04:46 PM 1/31/98 +1100, Ruby Red wrote: >>> I'm wondering if the person is remembering scenes from a different = show. >> >>I think so. Doctor Who seems a pretty likely candidate. Though the >>Doctor didn't go to Stonehenge, there was an adventure, one of the >>Key To Time ones, which featured a Stone Circle rather significantly >>in the episode. As for supernovas, well, space scenes, anyway. > >All to easy to mix up shows, especially if seen a long time ago. For = many >years I remembered a particularily excellent B&W episode of "Lost in = Space" >where they had to get inside these odd pepper-pot shaped robot thingies.= I >honestly think that's where my affection for LIS came from, because it = is >being shown on Space right now and I caught a couple of episodes for >nostalgia's sake, and I can't think what I liked about it (although I = was >*very* young at the time :)). Many years later I bought a book, a >novelization from a show I couldn't see in Canada but was quite = fanatical >about anyway, and had one of those "doh!" moments - the book was "Doctor >Who and the Daleks." Unlike LIS, I can go back to even the oldest >episodes of Dr. Who and enjoy them. In fact, I'm trying to hook my = kids. >What's the point in having kids if you can't warp their little minds? > >Anyway, I have a vague memory of a show with a roof and a nova, but I = can't >quite dredge the name out of memory. I'll let you know if I do. Unless= it >was the universe ending at Milliway's in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the >Galaxy?" =20 > >Jane > > >Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net >9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 > >check out the new ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ I think the programme being talked about was definately "Children of the Stones" satting Gareth (Blake) Thomas and Iain Cuthbertson. Stone Circle It was filmed in Avebury, Wiltshire (where there is a lovely stone circle) and involved the people of the village all being taken over and wishing each other "Happy Days". They are all actually *nice* to each other, which naturally raises suspicions. At the end, you find out that the manor house (Iain Cuthbertson's house) is right at the centre of a link to a black hole. All the people taken over are chanting and in a circle, which hightens the power. Black Hole The big table in the house starts receiving (or was it sending?) energy from the black hole (the roof opens up to allow this). Gareth Thomas' character's son manages to interrupt the flow. Hope this helps, D@ve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 01 Feb 1998 18:28:25 +1100 > From: Megan Delaney > > There was a discussion earlier on what math TP's should know. And, as a > math major, I thought I needed to put in my 2 cents. Well, I'm a Comp Sci student but just to make some additions. > Top Ten Reasons Knoing Calculus is Helpful for TP's: > 10) Calculating Jaunts Personally I use Trig, Calculus is only of use for working out the energy equations. > 9) Orbit Trajectories of Satellites Again, Trig is much more useful here, in my opinion. > 8) Confusing Mike And Hsui Tai, and Andrew, and Tyso, and most non-TPs > 7) Fixing Tim Hmm - Tigger might be more useful (he is a Biological computer) > 6) Checking TIM's calculations (if he can manage to burn the toast . . . ) Ahh! But he only has trouble with simple calculations. And Calculus ain't simple. > 5) Helping John with his inventions John doesn't need help! > 4) Telepathically share all the answers to Calculus problems with your friends Now this one is useful! > 3) Just in case a mad physict (rather than a biologist) tries to take > over the world Well . . . it could happen > 2) a mad mathematician Isn't that a requirement? > And the number one reason Calculus is Helpful to TP's is . . . > 1) The Entrance Exam to the Galactic Trig school If it requires Calculus, how did Tyso get in? Personally, in my opinion, Trig is far more important (not to mention the Trig) Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 01 Feb 1998 20:18:19 -0600 (CST) >Hmm - Tigger might be more useful (he is a Biological computer) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 01 Feb 1998 20:30:08 -0600 > > 8) Confusing Mike > We should really leave Mike alone. Mike's an odd sort of a creature, and you never just what odd creatures like that will do. Say you people like you use this calculus against him, and it blows up in your face. Let's say because of this harmless shenanigan and his expense, he decides to turn away from what he's currently into (rock-n-roll, if I'm not mistaken) and turns out to be one of the most gifted mathematicians on the planet, or the universe. Suppose he uses his advanced math skills to build a portal allowing him to travel into alternate realites (sounds sorta like Sliders, eh?), and he finds out that the TP are fictional (at least we _think_ they are, I've doubts). He then sees all the Mike-bashing we've done and decides to get even (as I said, he's an odd unpredictable creature). Won't you have a good row with him when he makes you eat not just your foot, but porridge with salt on it (Stephen would of course have accompanied him, and helped him decide the best way to exact revenge. Stephen is an odder sort of creature, in his own strange way). Then John would get wind of it and he would come here too to set things straight (this would bode well for Shaun, not so well for me and others). Liz would follow him (this bodes well for everyone involved), and Hsui Tai would come. Well Andrew would have to come with John, and Kenny would refuse to be left in the Lab. Carol would come, and I think Tricia would come just because everyone else is doing and they wouldn't want to be left behind. Poor TIM would be made into a portable version and dragged along, too. And this is the great consequence of it all...Where there are TP there are villians. Their enemies would pursue them here, and of course the new series TP would be mixed into the equation because Mike wouldn't go into this without having done it before and he most likely have gone to the new TP reality first. He would, of course, have already brought them here and gone back for Stephen. Soon there would be aliens, mosquitos, and bad weather for everyone! That's why I think that number 8, while funny, should be taken seriously. Think about it, it could happen! Megan ***** "I am not insane, I am merely discombobulated!" "Face it Gerty, yer plum off yer rocker!" -Harold and Gerty "Carrot Stick Men" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 02 Feb 1998 11:08:20 -0000 LOL!!! Would that mean that there would be a chance of the rest of us breaking out??? (cf. Shaun's Proximity theory.) If THAT could also happen, then lets give Mike as much encouragement as we can!!!!! "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. >Their enemies would pursue them here, and of course the >new series TP would be mixed into the equation because Mike wouldn't go >into this without having done it before and he most likely have gone to >the new TP reality first. He would, of course, have already brought them >here and gone back for Stephen. Soon there would be aliens, mosquitos, >and bad weather for everyone! > > That's why I think that number 8, while funny, should be taken >seriously. > >Think about it, it could happen! >Megan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: TPDIS: Re: Shadows on a changing wind Date: 02 Feb 1998 12:00:38 -0000 I LOVE this story! More, more more!!! "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Taylor Subject: TPDIS: Wedge shaped pattern? Date: 02 Feb 1998 20:34:10 -0000 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3019.ED46D5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <<< Megan: > > 8) Confusing Mike > [...] Suppose he uses his advanced math skills to build a portal allowing him to travel into alternate realities = (sounds sorta like Sliders, eh?), and he finds out that the TP are fictional (at least we _think_ they are, I've doubts). >>> Well... the 'wedge shaped pattern' in TP EEGs is not _entirely_ = fictional. I have a rather dim memory of reading a book in 1973-74 about = a psychic that was associated with TK phenomenon and 'automatic = writing'. The book mentions that his EEG alpha-rhythms were unusual in = that they had a 'ramp function' shape (or something like that). Of = course, Roger Price may have read the same book near the time he was = writing the script for 'Secret Weapon'. All I can remember about the = identity of the book is the name 'Matthew Taylor' - whether he was the = author or the psychic I can't remember. I do remember that it was = non-fiction. 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Would that mean that there would be a chance of the rest of us > breaking out??? (cf. Shaun's Proximity theory.) If THAT could also > happen, then lets give Mike as much encouragement as we can!!!!! > Not necessarily. With the upset in time/space/reality that may do 1 of three things 1)Cause mass break outs through out the world, thus causing the new and old series TP to team up in order to deal with the telepathic epidemic. This would cause severe disorientation through out the world, nations would go to war with each other claiming that the rival had biological weapons. This would also bring society as we know it to a screeching halt or 1b)All murdering and violence might stop because all the new TP would transmit a pacifist signal there for ending all violence. 2)Destroy any chances we may have had that we could break out. Making list telepathy a wierd coincidence. If they came here to our reality it would thus prove that they are entirely fictional having to come from a whole other dimension in order to exist. This would strip us of any hope of become TP and we would sadly remain saps for life (wahhh). 3)End the world altogether. If the space/time/reality continium were to be broken, then it might just destroy everything altogether, thus allowing perhaps a dark/lighter outcome of this universe to take our place. All universes have multiple possibilities with one single reality. If that reality is destroyed through this break in the reality barrier, then another one would have to take over. There can be no end, if infinite universe is broken, then another infinite universe replaces it. So far ours is the dominate and the TP are an alternate existing in the minds of those here. This leaves a grand door open for speculation though, which universe would take over? Ours isn't a possiblity. I think that the old series wouldn't because it started the whole mess, and if you play the game of chance, it just might nail you. I think that the new series would because a)It's closest to both dead realities b)It's a neutral reality, not on the recieving or sending end of the reality hole. c)It already has a link here with the new series TP fans and the creators/actors/staff members of the show. However if you wanted to know the exact math of it, calculus would be necessary! So it's all relevant! Does this seem a bit odd to you? Megan ****** Probability is a dreamer's science -Jaime Hopkins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Wedge shaped pattern? Date: 03 Feb 1998 09:50:01 +1100 > Well... the 'wedge shaped pattern' in TP EEGs is not _entirely_ > fictional. > I have a rather dim memory of reading a book in 1973-74 about a psychic > that was associated with TK phenomenon and 'automatic writing'. The book > mentions that his EEG alpha-rhythms were unusual in that they had a 'ramp > function' shape (or something like that). Of course, Roger Price may have > read the same book near the time he was writing the script for 'Secret > Weapon'. All I can remember about the identity of the book is the name > 'Matthew Taylor' - whether he was the author or the psychic I can't > remember. I do remember that it was non-fiction. I'm by no means an expert on EEGs or brain waves, but it is my impression that quite a few people have some sort of brain wave anomalies that can't yet be explained. I have fairly regular EEGs (I'm a lab rat!) and there are patterns in my brain waves that are fairly rare, and as yet unexplainable (in the sense that they don't know what they indicate or whether they indicate anything at all). I have no knowledge of the book you are referring to, but if you remember it from 1973/74 it is quite possible that either Roger Price or Dr Chritopher Evans would have encountered it. From talking to Psychophysioligist friends (we have a Brain Science Institute attached to my University), I know there have been studies examining supposed psychics and most of these do include brain wave analysis. There is some degree of correlation between alleged psychic phenomena and unusual brain wave activity according to that research. I've got a book with me (partly edited by Dr Evans) which has a very interesting article on psi powers and details of some experiments. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 02 Feb 1998 21:57:43 -0600 (CST) Meganwrote: >(Stephen >would of course have accompanied him, and helped him decide the best way >to exact revenge. Stephen is an odder sort of creature, in his own >strange way). We've got to get this girl some original series tapes. (-8 Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Matott Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 03 Feb 1998 11:09:21 -0500 (EST) Megan said: Lots of things I've snipped. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOTF!!! Oh, I needed that. - Greyfalcon - X X - aka mike matott X X - email:matottm@alleg.edu ----X---- X X I want to believe .... X X ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 03 Feb 1998 02:01:50 -0000 >1)Cause mass break outs through out the world, thus causing the new and >old series TP to team up in order to deal with the telepathic epidemic. > >2)Destroy any chances we may have had that we could break out. Making >list telepathy a wierd coincidence. If they came here to our reality it >would thus prove that they are entirely fictional having to come from a >whole other dimension in order to exist. This would strip us of any hope >of become TP and we would sadly remain saps for life (wahhh). > >3)End the world altogether. If the space/time/reality continium were to >be broken, then it might just destroy everything altogether, thus >allowing perhaps a dark/lighter outcome of this universe to take our >place. > > This leaves a grand door open for speculation though, which universe >would take over? Ours isn't a possiblity. I think that the old series >wouldn't because it started the whole mess, and if you play the game of >chance, it just might nail you. I think that the new series would >because > > a)It's closest to both dead realities > b)It's a neutral reality, not on the recieving or sending end of the >reality hole. > c)It already has a link here with the new series TP fans and the >creators/actors/staff members of the show. > > However if you wanted to know the exact math of it, calculus would be >necessary! So it's all relevant! > >Does this seem a bit odd to you? >Megan Not "odd" as such Megan........ a bit too deep for me, but *never* "odd"!!! I'll have to think about it a bit, and come up with a better reply in the cold light of morning.. "Live Long and Prosper!" David.......(writing at 02:01am!!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 03 Feb 1998 15:42:53 -0600 Tigger wrote: > Meganwrote: > > >(Stephen > >would of course have accompanied him, and helped him decide the best > way > >to exact revenge. Stephen is an odder sort of creature, in his own > >strange way). > > We've got to get this girl some original series tapes. (-8 > Tigger I couldn't agree more! If anyone has TP tapes new series, old series, any series, I'll take it! But contact me privately so we don't crowd the list. I need some tapes, immediately, emergency speed! Megan ****** I showed my masterpiece to the grownups, and asked them whether it frightened them. But they answered "Frighten? Why should anyone be frightened by a hat?" My drawing was not a picture of a hat. It was a picture of a boa constrictor digesting an elephant -Author "The Little Prince" Antoine de Saint-Exupery ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Top 10 Reasons TP's should know Calculus Date: 04 Feb 1998 01:31:16 PST >grad school and can make it weird again....> well I just got an answering machine and my silly little sister (who hates the tomorrow people) said that i could do the message because she didn't want to. The last thing anyone hears before the beep is a good old, gotta luv it, jaunting sound. He he he my sister was fuming but the sound is staying. Rachael with an A ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: TPDIS: Screen Savers. Date: 04 Feb 1998 23:14:16 -0000 Thanx for the advice on screen savers. I have now downloaded some appropriate software and have put together a respectable collection of "slides" on the carousel. If anyone has any really good pictures that are not on any of the web pages.........????? "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: TPDIS: Origin Story Date: 05 Feb 1998 18:31:18 -0600 I've got an Origin Story query (for my story, I never saw it I saw Culex-Ramsees), do we know just how long Adam had been on the island before Lisa and Kevin get there? This is more complicated and more fun than I ever imagined! Help, please Megan **** For what it's worth It was worth all the while -Green Day ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Origin Story Date: 06 Feb 1998 12:43:22 +1100 > From: Hal Freeman > > I've got an Origin Story query (for my story, I never saw it I saw > Culex-Ramsees), do we know just how long Adam had been on the island > before Lisa and Kevin get there? This is more complicated and more fun > than I ever imagined! It isn't made clear in the episode to my knowledge, but the novelisation places Adam's arrival at two and a half months before the others IIRC (Rachael has the copy of the novel at the moment). Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Origin Story Date: 05 Feb 1998 22:15:34 -0600 Shaun Hately wrote: > > From: Hal Freeman > > > > I've got an Origin Story query (for my story, I never saw it I saw > > > Culex-Ramsees), do we know just how long Adam had been on the island > > > before Lisa and Kevin get there? This is more complicated and more > fun > > than I ever imagined! > > It isn't made clear in the episode to my knowledge, but the > novelisation > places Adam's arrival at two and a half months before the others IIRC > (Rachael has the copy of the novel at the moment). > Thanks Shaun, now I can breath and start working on my story again. BTW, what's IIRC? I'm co wired right now I couldn't tell you what anything more complicated than BTW meant. Back to fan fic salt mines, Megan **** And maybe you should sleep And maybe you just need a friend As clumsy as you've been There's no one laughing You will be safe in here -Our Lady Peace "Clumsy" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Origin Story Date: 04 Feb 1998 04:57:35 -0800 Megan wrote: > Thanks Shaun, now I can breath and start working on my story again. > BTW, what's IIRC? I'm co wired right now I couldn't tell you what > anything more complicated than BTW meant. IIRC= "if i recall correctly", i believe. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 14:54:02 GMT Thought I'd mention that this month's edition of 'Cult TV' magazine includes a four page interview of Nick Young and Peter Vaughan Clarke. It is in their usual jokey style, but quite interesting. Nick Young starts off by shooting down the claims that the 70s TP was all gay metaphor, although admits that the leather-and-chain costumes in A Much Needed Holiday were a bit dubious. He also says that: 'A lot of people enjoyed watching the programme when they were on something; it made the special effects look better', and 'The Scandinavians thought it was psychologically too violent. Had we been shagging all the way through it that would have been fine - but it was psychologically too violent so they never bought it'. Peter Vaughan Clarke's biggest admission is that he really didn't wear any underpants under his kilt in The Doomsday Men, and that he was 'pissed right off' for a year after being written out. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Hillsdon" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 02:20:11 +1100 Which issue number is that? Warren -----Original Message----- >Thought I'd mention that this month's edition of 'Cult TV' magazine >includes a four page interview of Nick Young and Peter Vaughan Clarke. > >It is in their usual jokey style, but quite interesting. Nick Young >starts off by shooting down the claims that the 70s TP was all gay >metaphor, although admits that the leather-and-chain costumes in A >Much Needed Holiday were a bit dubious. He also says that: 'A lot of >people enjoyed watching the programme when they were on something; it >made the special effects look better', and 'The Scandinavians thought >it was psychologically too violent. Had we been shagging all the way >through it that would have been fine - but it was psychologically too >violent so they never bought it'. Peter Vaughan Clarke's biggest >admission is that he really didn't wear any underpants under his kilt >in The Doomsday Men, and that he was 'pissed right off' for a year >after being written out. > >Jez >-- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 15:34:57 GMT "Warren Hillsdon" wrote: > Which issue number is that? Season 2, Episode 2 (February 1998). I haven't looked whether there is anything about it on their website (http://www.culttv.co.uk/). Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 14:24:58 -0600 (CST) Jez wrote: >he claims that the 70s TP was all gay metaphor What? Huh? Who's making these claims? Why? > Peter Vaughan Clarke's biggest >admission is that he really didn't wear any underpants under his kilt >in The Doomsday Men, Eeek! >he was 'pissed right off' for a year >after being written out. Um, pissed as in drunk or pissed as in angry? (Darn English dialects.:) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 14:26:56 -0600 (CST) I wrote: >Jez wrote: >>he claims that the 70s TP was all gay metaphor ^^the, bad Tigger, nobiscuit. sorry! Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 13:49:40 PST >Jez wrote: >>he claims that the 70s TP was all gay metaphor >What? Huh? Who's making these claims? Why? Tigger> By those in the field of queer studies, apparently. My sister in law, for example, is the faculty advisor for the Gay Lesbian and Bisexual Student Union (may have the name wrong, but that's the premise of the organization) at the College of West Virginia, and it was through talk of homosexual subtext in 70s TP that she had first heard of the show. It's been a while since she told me about this, and I can't remember the specifics of the conversation anymore, though. Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 21:26:14 GMT Beth Epstein wrote: > Jez wrote: > >he claims that the 70s TP was all gay metaphor > What? Huh? Who's making these claims? Why? This interpretation has been put forward by some fans over the years. > >he was 'pissed right off' for a year > >after being written out. > Um, pissed as in drunk or pissed as in angry? (Darn English dialects.:) Angry. Called Vic Hughes 'a right tosser'. Never spoke again to Roger Price, who he claimed had spent the previous five years 'at my mum's house going on about me being a big star'. Incidentally the pictures are rather more flattering to PVC than the Sci-Fi clips were. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 23:16:13 -0600 Darryl Gillikin wrote: > >Jez wrote: > >>he claims that the 70s TP was all gay metaphor > >What? Huh? Who's making these claims? Why? >Tigger> > > By those in the field of queer studies, apparently. My sister in law, > > for example, is the faculty advisor for the Gay Lesbian and Bisexual > Student Union (may have the name wrong, but that's the premise of the > organization) at the College of West Virginia, and it was through talk > > of homosexual subtext in 70s TP that she had first heard of the show. > It's been a while since she told me about this, and I can't remember > the > specifics of the conversation anymore, though. Have we forgotten that there are little ears on this list, and there are few people who really don't want to hear about the homosexual subtext of the old series. I just thought it was cool show and Stephen was pretty darn cute! Anyone who can find the homosexual subtext in anything has obviously lost his/her mind, has a sick mind, and/or has no life outside of finding the homosexual subtext in good shows like the Tomorrow People. This is a bit too precarious for me guys, let's just stick to stun guns and jaunting belts. It was kids show fer crying out loud people!! I doubt Wendy would appreciate *this* being on her list, Megan ******* Whenever somebody says something precarious, it is usually because they feel the need to eat their feet, or fall off of a cliff! -Sarah Woodard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 22:04:29 PST > Have we forgotten that there are little ears on this list, > and there >are few people who really don't want to hear about the homosexual >subtext of the old series. I just thought it was cool show and Stephen >was pretty darn cute! Anyone who can find the homosexual subtext in >anything has obviously lost his/her mind, has a sick mind, and/or has no >life outside of finding the homosexual subtext in good shows like the >Tomorrow People. This is a bit too precarious for me guys, let's just >stick to stun guns and jaunting belts. It was kids show fer crying out >loud people!! I don't think there is anything wrong with homosexual subtext. There is definately nothing sick about it. Homosexualtiy is not something that i personally would chose but it doesn't make those who do any worse than i. As for "little ears" if more little ears were brought up understanding about different peoples sexual preferences then this would not be a problem, it is not age that is the factor here, just a narrow minded socitey. This topic is no worse than others that heve been put to the list. > >I doubt Wendy would appreciate *this* being on her list, >Megan Only people with narrow minds would find something wrong with people being able to express their own sexuality or to talk about different sexualities. You don't complain about shows with hetrosexual subtexts. Live and let live. Everyone is entitled to view the show as they see it. Rachael with an A ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 07 Feb 1998 22:07:57 PST > Have we forgotten that there are little ears on this list, > and there >are few people who really don't want to hear about the homosexual >subtext of the old series. I just thought it was cool show and Stephen >was pretty darn cute! Anyone who can find the homosexual subtext in >anything has obviously lost his/her mind, has a sick mind, and/or has no >life outside of finding the homosexual subtext in good shows like the >Tomorrow People. This is a bit too precarious for me guys, let's just >stick to stun guns and jaunting belts. It was kids show fer crying out >loud people!! I don't think there is anything wrong with homosexual subtext. There is definately nothing sick about it. Homosexualtiy is not something that i personally would chose but it doesn't make those who do any worse than i. As for "little ears" if more little ears were brought up understanding about different peoples sexual preferences then this would not be a problem, it is not age that is the factor here, just a narrow minded socitey. This topic is no worse than others that heve been put to the list. > >I doubt Wendy would appreciate *this* being on her list, >Megan Only people with narrow minds would find something wrong with people being able to express their own sexuality or to talk about different sexualities. You don't complain about shows with hetrosexual subtexts. Live and let live. Everyone is entitled to view the show as they see it. Rachael with an A ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allyson Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 01:15:50 -0500 Rachael Bailey wrote: > Only people with narrow minds would find something wrong with people > being able to express their own sexuality or to talk about different > sexualities. You don't complain about shows with hetrosexual subtexts. > Live and let live. Everyone is entitled to view the show as they see it. Just had to come out of lurking a moment to say: Here! Here! *Morwenna applauds* *Back into lurking* -Allyson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: TPDIS: Re: Cult TV interview. Date: 08 Feb 1998 12:59:44 -0000 I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with acknowledging that some people found a homosexual sub-text in the 70's tv series. I watched that series IN the 70's and found nothing wrong with it at all. (Mind you, I was only a small child then......I'd never even HEARD of homosexuals....never mind the sub-text!!) I think we have to recognise that there is a difference between what the makers of the show intended, and what people watching it perceived. Children's TV, even today, would find a homosexual story-line to be "controversial". Back in the 70's it would have been unheard of!! We need to live and let live. If people find a sub-text there, well and good, if not, well and good too. (Personally I'm joining Megan on the stun guns and jaunting belts...) I don't see a sub-text myself, but I'm willing to accept that others do...That's what a free society is all about. "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 16:17:23 GMT Hal Freeman wrote: > Have we forgotten that there are little ears on this list, and there > are few people who really don't want to hear about the homosexual > subtext of the old series. No-one has gone into the details of this interpretation. The key point is equating 'breaking out' with 'coming out'. > I just thought it was cool show and Stephen > was pretty darn cute! Anyone who can find the homosexual subtext in > anything has obviously lost his/her mind, has a sick mind, and/or has no > life outside of finding the homosexual subtext in good shows like the > Tomorrow People. This is a bit too precarious for me guys, let's just > stick to stun guns and jaunting belts. It was kids show fer crying out > loud people!! But people who analyse the programme are entitled to come to whatever conclusions they like, providing that they can substantiate them. Whether this has anything to do with the true intentions of the creators or not is a different matter. I was initially somewhat surprised that Nick Young didn't know about the 'gay icon' status that some people have placed on the show, but then again I suppose there was no reason why he should. FWIW different sexualities and coming to terms with them has been overtly portrayed in children's television in recent years the UK; the drama Byker Grove comes to mind where in one series the confusion of one teenager was explored in some detail, and included a male-male kiss. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 10:24:26 -0600 That's rather presumptious of you, Megan, to assume what Wendy does and does not want to hear on "her" list... homosexuality isn't some fearful "adult" thing neither is it symptomatic of some illness or mental problem with a list member. Some of us tire of hearing of nothing but jaunting belts, teleportation, and theories on just when we're all going to break out. Personally, I like hearing something about the Tomorrow People that applies to real life, as opposed to our fantasy lives. As far as the gay subtext itself, it's curious to note that of all the people I talk to that remember and appreciated the Tomorrow People, about 75-80 percent of them that I know are gay. I feel that this is due to the inherent stigma and isolation surrounding homosexuality in our societies is similar to the hidden nature of the TP and to the way Roger directed/ran the show. Thanks. Marcell ---------- > From: Hal Freeman > To: tpdis@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview > Date: Saturday, February 07, 1998 11:16 PM > > Darryl Gillikin wrote: > > > >Jez wrote: > > >>he claims that the 70s TP was all gay metaphor > > >What? Huh? Who's making these claims? Why? > >Tigger> > > > > By those in the field of queer studies, apparently. My sister in law, > > > > for example, is the faculty advisor for the Gay Lesbian and Bisexual > > Student Union (may have the name wrong, but that's the premise of the > > organization) at the College of West Virginia, and it was through talk > > > > of homosexual subtext in 70s TP that she had first heard of the show. > > It's been a while since she told me about this, and I can't remember > > the > > specifics of the conversation anymore, though. > > Have we forgotten that there are little ears on this list, and there > are few people who really don't want to hear about the homosexual > subtext of the old series. I just thought it was cool show and Stephen > was pretty darn cute! Anyone who can find the homosexual subtext in > anything has obviously lost his/her mind, has a sick mind, and/or has no > life outside of finding the homosexual subtext in good shows like the > Tomorrow People. This is a bit too precarious for me guys, let's just > stick to stun guns and jaunting belts. It was kids show fer crying out > loud people!! > > I doubt Wendy would appreciate *this* being on her list, > Megan > > ******* > Whenever somebody says something precarious, it is usually because they > feel the need to eat their feet, or fall off of a cliff! > -Sarah Woodard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 12:11:57 -0600 (CST) Jez wrote: >The key point is equating 'breaking out' with 'coming out'. OK, I see wehree they're coming from now. I think it's grasping at straws personally, but I can see the argument. >FWIW different sexualities and coming to terms with them has been >overtly portrayed in children's television in recent years the UK; Advanteges of not coming from a Puritanical heritage. While it is becoming more accepted, as a whole, such things are still not considered appropriate for children-- which is silly, as there are kids out there who probably are homosexual and should know that they're not alone, but there are, of course, parents who would still freak out-- mostly members of the religious right, but also just some who are plain homophobic. Which is about as silly as racism, since i'ts probably also a genetic trait, but I digress from the subject at hand. Combining responses, Marcell wrote: >As far as the gay subtext itself, it's curious to note that of all the >people I talk to that remember and appreciated the Tomorrow People, about >75-80 percent of them that I know are gay. I can't tell if these stats include the list or not, but I don't think (judging strictly from what I know about people's personal lives, or what they've posted) that this statistic acurately reflects the list. As we don't know what sorts of people Marcell is likely to hang out with, I don't think this statistic can really be considered an accurate refelection of anything other than a reflection of Marcell's friends-- definitely not a large simple random sample-- though I'd also be dubious to use the list for research purposees either-- it isalso not a random sample, and N is too small for t-tests anyway. >I feel that this is due to the >inherent stigma and isolation surrounding homosexuality in our societies is >similar to the hidden nature of the TP Which could also apply to anyone else who feels different-- becuase others think they're too smart, too prudish, too goody goody.... This is more a fact of the isolation of any group different from whaat society considers "normal" than a reflection of appealing to anyone of one sexuality or another. in other words, the TP appeals to anyone who's ever felt like a weirdo or freak-- and that's a lot of people. >and to the way Roger directed/ran the show. I can see how you might argue this. But you could also argue it on a stictly heterosexual basis or a strictly asexual basis. For instance, I pointed out how Liz and John start amusingly acting like a married couple in One Law (ie convincing John he ws being too harsh with Tyso over ciming back), one of my friends (we were celebrating me passing my senior integrative exercise) insisted that this was because they were um.. having intimate relations. Of course, I went ballistic and tickled him. These interpretations certainly exist, however, but judging from the reactions on TPFICT to the adult story that was posted last spring, I'd say that most people have fond, innocent memories of the TP that they would prefer that this aspect of adult life not intrude upon. I'm one of them. So in that regard, would anyone like to get in a knock-down drag it out over the political implications of The Dirtiest Business or War of the Empires or the religous implications of The Lost Gods and/or Heart of Sogguth? Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Waddell Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 17:29:46 GMT On Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:24:26 -0600, you wrote: >That's rather presumptious of you, Megan, to assume what Wendy does and >does not want to hear on "her" list... homosexuality isn't some fearful >"adult" thing neither is it symptomatic of some illness or mental = problem >with a list member. Some of us tire of hearing of nothing but jaunting >belts, teleportation, and theories on just when we're all going to break >out. Personally, I like hearing something about the Tomorrow People = that >applies to real life, as opposed to our fantasy lives. =20 > >As far as the gay subtext itself, it's curious to note that of all the >people I talk to that remember and appreciated the Tomorrow People, = about >75-80 percent of them that I know are gay. I feel that this is due to = the >inherent stigma and isolation surrounding homosexuality in our societies= is >similar to the hidden nature of the TP and to the way Roger directed/ran >the show. > >Thanks. > >Marcell > a few years agi, a friend of mine wrote the "Tomorrow People good sex guide" which explained a lot of the (possible) hidden meanings - it astonished even me! D@ve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 12:52:59 -0600 Racheal (did I get it right?) and others, I'm not against homosexuality. I just think that a topic that is ADULT shouldn't be on the list that's all. I don't care if it is homosexual or hetrosexual. It's ADULT. I'm not close-minded. I have a few friends who are gay/lesbian/bisexual and I wouldn't be close-minded for the world on a silver platter. Homosexuality is not evil!!! I never said that it was. I just said that one shouldn't try to find ADULT subtext in a KID'S show. BTW, I don't mind talking about sexuality, but not the list, please. I come here to talk about John and Adam and stun guns and Jade and Megabyte, not sexuality. I'd be more than willing to talk about it on private e-mail. I'm sorry if I offended you all, I should have been clearer Megan ::starting on left foot:: ***** Somethings in this world are good and some are evil. Somethings in this world aren't for our speculation. -Edith Bledsoe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bookwyrm@sprynet.com Subject: TPDIS: Touchy Subjects Date: 08 Feb 1998 11:25:08 -0800 (PST) >I doubt Wendy would appreciate *this* being on her list, Just for the record, I have *no* problem with discussions of religion, sexual preference or politics being posted to the lists *as long as they pertain directly to the Tomorrow People* and as long as they get no more explicit than PG-13. If the topics degenerate into flame wars or material I'd be embarrased to show my mother, then I will be forced to call a ban. But, I trust you guys to not reach that level. ... Wendy bookwyrm@sprynet.com * http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/ Listowner Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Asst. Listowner Sliders Creative & Discussion Lists at esosoft ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Waddell Subject: Re: TPDIS: Touchy Subjects Date: 08 Feb 1998 19:21:32 GMT On Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:25:08 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >>I doubt Wendy would appreciate *this* being on her list, > >Just for the record, I have *no* problem with discussions of religion,=20 >sexual preference or politics being posted to the lists *as long as they= =20 >pertain directly to the Tomorrow People* and as long as they get no more= =20 >explicit than PG-13. If the topics degenerate into flame wars or=20 >material I'd be embarrased to show my mother, then I will be forced to=20 >call a ban. But, I trust you guys to not reach that level. > > >... >Wendy > >bookwyrm@sprynet.com * http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/ >Listowner Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists >Asst. Listowner Sliders Creative & Discussion Lists at esosoft > i agree entirely - well said Wendy! D@ve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "lazerus" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Touchy Subjects Date: 08 Feb 1998 15:18:18 -0500 >>I doubt Wendy would appreciate *this* being on her list, > >Just for the record, I have *no* problem with discussions of religion, >sexual preference or politics being posted to the lists *as long as they >pertain directly to the Tomorrow People* and as long as they get no more >explicit than PG-13. If the topics degenerate into flame wars or >material I'd be embarrased to show my mother, then I will be forced to >call a ban. But, I trust you guys to not reach that level. > > >... >Wendy > >bookwyrm@sprynet.com * http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/ >Listowner Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists >Asst. Listowner Sliders Creative & Discussion Lists at esosoft > > I also totally agree Personally, as far as the gay subtext in the origional series goes, I didn't see that at all, but I'm not offended that others did. I feel that its the openess, understanding, and acceptance, that really made the Tomorrow People my favorite show. They always seemed to try and see the other persons point of view. These are good qualities that a lot of people on the list have, and it's a big reason why I feel the list is so enjoyable. I feel that it is good that we can discuss religion, sexual preference and politics openly. -Lazerus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: Cult TV interview. Date: 08 Feb 1998 15:33:33 EST In a message dated 2/8/98 8:00:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, David_M_Yates@email.msn.com writes: > I think we have to recognise that there is a difference > between what the makers of the show intended, and what people watching > it perceived. Children's TV, even today, would find a homosexual > story-line to be "controversial". Back in the 70's it would have been > unheard of!! I'm glad I get to bring this up before anyone else! It seems that only us English speaking countries find something wrong with homosexuality and violence on television. In Japan, one of the most popular cartoon series had several gay characters, and could be quite violent at times. i mean, the characters said thigns I wouldn't say on this list in some episodes. Maybe it's just me.... Anyway, to be OT, does it really matter whether or not people see homosexual subtexts in the TP? I never did, but if someone does, it's their choice. > We need to live and let live. If people find a sub-text > there, well and good, if not, well and good too. (Personally I'm joining > Megan on the stun guns and jaunting belts...) I don't see a sub-text > myself, but I'm willing to accept that others do...That's what a free > society is all about. hear hear! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Matott Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 08 Feb 1998 18:34:19 -0500 Begin forwarded message: > Have we forgotten that there are little ears on this list, and >there are few people who really don't want to hear about the >homosexual subtext of the old series. And at the same point, there might be some who do. Please do not arbitrarily decide what shall and shall not be commented on list. That honor is reserved for the list manager. >I just thought it was cool show and Stephen >was pretty darn cute! Anyone who can find the homosexual subtext in >anything has obviously lost his/her mind, has a sick mind, and/or >has no life outside of finding the homosexual subtext in good shows >like the Tomorrow People. One can read Freudian and feminist readings into almost any literary or media work. That does not mean they are accurate, nor does it mean they are valid. If it can be seen and supported, it needs to be considered. The same goes for a homsexual content. It does not indicate a "sick" mind, it indicates an active, open one. A good thing to learn as you grow, Megan. (and for tbose adults on this list who feel the same way) >This is a bit too precarious for me guys, let's just >stick to stun guns and jaunting belts. It was kids show fer crying >out loud people!! Tiny Toons was a kids cartoon and yet they made references to many things only adults would get. Kids shows and stories can have deep meanings for adults. I still cherish the Winnie the Pooh stories and Peter Pan. I haven't seen the original series, so I can't comment on a possible subtext, but the new series surely seemed to show a welcoming environment for people of difference. Something that minorities and gay people look for. Try to imagine what it's like to not be accepted by the majority of the country, and sometimes not even your own family. Shows like the TP give us (yes, I said us) a sense that there's a chance of belonging to at least something, even if our parents can't understand it. It's something to keep you going. Sorry if this seems too much like a flame and/or is not "on-topic" enough, but this is an issue I take personally (guess why) and prefer not to dismiss out of hand because a "few people might not like it". mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Touchy Subjects Date: 09 Feb 1998 12:43:33 +1100 > From: bookwyrm@sprynet.com > > Just for the record, I have *no* problem with discussions of religion, > sexual preference or politics being posted to the lists *as long as they > pertain directly to the Tomorrow People* and as long as they get no more > explicit than PG-13. If the topics degenerate into flame wars or > material I'd be embarrased to show my mother, then I will be forced to > call a ban. But, I trust you guys to not reach that level. Wonderful! I didn't post this because I wanted to see what Wendy's position was first. However, I'm not sure exactly what PG-13 means. I know what it stands for, but Australian broadcasting standards don't match those of the US in a lot of ways, and I suspect our standards are far more lenient concerning homosexuality on TV than those of the US. I'm trying to keep the following within reasonable limits (and I think I have) but if anyone feels likely to be offended by it, don't read it. Now I have heard the homosexual subtext idea before and I have it on good authority (from friends active in the gay clubs at Uni, who are also in the Sci-Fi club with me) that The Tomorrow People is often discussed in this manner. There has actually been quit a variety of slash fiction over the years, and there is a theory I have heard that suggests that because the show always preached a high level of tolerance and appealed to those who felt different from the norms, that this fact alone made it popular among some sections of the gay community - just because of the aspect of tolerance. It's also a product of the 1970s and there is an increasing attitude today to label many things from the 70s as being "camp". This can certainly be said to apply in some ways to The Tomorrow People. Look at "A Man For Emily". I'm not sure it falls into the strict interpretation of camp but there are elements of it, and there is a temptation to label anything camp as gay. Then there is John. John does not seem to be a "sexual creature" - I'm not sure how to put that, but I know a lot of people who watch the show come away with the impression that he is quite disinterested in the opposite sex. This doesn't appear to be true (parts of "The Blue and the Green" and "A Man For Emily" seem to indicate he is interested in female companionship). In some ways, John fits one of the stereotypes of a gay male. Polite, not really interested in females (reputedly) . . . I could go on, but it is only a stereotype in any event and not an accurate one. There is also John's relationship with the other TP - most of whom are male. While there is certainly nothing to indicate that the TP are gay, he does have close relationship with other males. Again, this fact has lead some people to find gay elements in the Tomorrow People - or at least for some gay men to have been glad to find a show that didn't depict love and affection between males to be something wrong. I won't go into the clothing aspect that leads some people to make assumptions. People have already mentioned the costuming in "A Much Needed Holiday" and suffice it to say there are other examples a person could use if they wanted to. And while I wasn't around at the time, I wonder if there wasn't some element of this supposed "homosexual subtext" known to Roger Price. I've just got the novelisation of One Law. As anyone who has seen the serial know, Mr O'Reilly firmly believes the Tomorrow People are fairies. While in the context of the serial, it's quite clear that he means "faerie-folk" of some kind, the novelisation contains jokes that may indicate a double meaning. Two examples. The first from page 46. Mike spluttered with laughter, swallowed some of O'Reilly's home brew down the wrong way, and for the next minute was literally gasping for his life. 'Don't,' he begged through watering eyes, 'Don't ever let any of my friends hear you call me a fairy. They wouldn't understand what you meant. And on page 97 in a conversation between Mr O'Reilly and Stephen: 'Now would a fairy be telling a mere mortal like me about his comings and goings? He's probably in fairyland. Why don't you look there? Why don't you ask the Queen of the Fairies?' 'Not such a bad idea at that,' thought Stephen. He slipped into silent telepathic communication, 'John,' he asked. 'Any sign of Michael?' Personally, I like this topic - something that actually bears reasonable discussion. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: TPDIS: Religious implications (was Re: Cult TV interview) Date: 09 Feb 1998 08:11:10 +1100 On Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:11:57PM -0600, Beth Epstein wrote: > So in that regard, would anyone like to get in a knock-down drag it out over > the political implications of The Dirtiest Business or War of the Empires or > the religous implications of The Lost Gods and/or Heart of Sogguth? Let's see, The Lost Gods says that religions are fake, and Heart of Sogguth says religions are true? Naw, not really. The Lost Gods is an example of the cliche of a religion where the leader of the religion doesn't believe it, and exploits his followers for power. It neatly avoided the more difficult situation where *all* of the followers of the religion believe it, and the leader is not exploiting his followers, but the religion is still mistaken. If the leader of the Child-Gods religion hadn't been so false, would Hsui Tai have left? She would probably have allowed herself to be killed, and no amount of persuasion by Mike would have sufficed. Heart of Sogguth is interesting... I'm not sure whether the manner in which Elizabeth was "immune" to the Heart of Sogguth was a plot-flaw or not. Because it's appealing in a spooky sort of way - if there is a force of evil, there must be a force of good - but on the other hand, it begs the question, being literally a deus ex machina. You could also argue that they simply don't *know* why Elizabeth was immune; the explanation that she was protected by a higher power is simply a guess. -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 09 Feb 1998 08:01:29 +1100 On Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:11:57PM -0600, Beth Epstein wrote: > Jez wrote: > >The key point is equating 'breaking out' with 'coming out'. > OK, I see wehree they're coming from now. I think it's grasping at straws > personally, but I can see the argument. Not so much grasping at straws as inventing an entire new context. > >I feel that this is due to the > >inherent stigma and isolation surrounding homosexuality in our societies is > >similar to the hidden nature of the TP > Which could also apply to anyone else who feels different-- becuase others > think they're too smart, too prudish, too goody goody.... This is more a fact > of the isolation of any group different from whaat society considers "normal" > than a reflection of appealing to anyone of one sexuality or another. > in other words, the TP appeals to anyone who's ever felt like a weirdo or > freak-- and that's a lot of people. Exactly! The thing I object to in the whole "homosexual sub-text" thing is that it tries to make the show say something other than what it actually said. "sub-text" implies that the meaning was always there, but hidden. Which is nonsense. The meaning has be *put* there by the interpretation. Wheras saying that the TP is an example of isolated wierd people *just like* homosexuals are isolated wierd people, then that's okay, because it isn't changing the meaning of the TP, just using it as an example of similarity. > course, I went ballistic and tickled him. These interpretations certainly > exist, however, but judging from the reactions on TPFICT to the adult story that > was posted last spring, I'd say that most people have fond, innocent memories > of the TP that they would prefer that this aspect of adult life not intrude > upon. > > I'm one of them. Me too. KJA -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 09 Feb 1998 13:31:21 +1100 > From: Beth Epstein > > So in that regard, would anyone like to get in a knock-down drag it out > over the political implications of The Dirtiest Business or War of the > Empires or the religous implications of The Lost Gods and/or Heart of > Sogguth? Well, with regards to the Heart of Sogguth - what is actually going on here? Is there a suggestion that the devil is real, and the ancient stories about him (whether they are the ones in Judaeo-Christian tradition or in any other) are accurate? Or are we looking at yet another sort of "Chariot's of the Gods" story where we have some sort of alien being coming to Earth and playing a role that gets adopted into primitive cultures (similar to the Kulthan). We have quite a few examples of Myths & Legends popping up in The Tomorrow People. Let's see - we have the Cyclops in "The Slaves of Jedikiah" where it is revealed that Cyclops story contained in Greek Mythology actually involved an alien expedition. We have the Kulthan, of course, and there place in Egyptian mythology. We have "The Blue and the Green" where a race of aliens were responsible for the collapse of the Roman Empire. In more modern terms, there is a suggestion that the Kulthan placed the Loch Ness monster on Earth in "Achille's Heel". I'm going to steer away from 'modern' religions as I don't want to offend anyone by suggesting that faiths they may hold are rooted in Alien visitations (enough books do that already), but what do people think of the suggestion that in the Tomorrow People, there does seem to be an indication that aliens have had a big impact on our early history at least to a limited extent. And possibly even to a major extent potentially (if we look at "A Rift In Time.") Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications (was Re: Cult TV interview) Date: 08 Feb 1998 20:53:26 -0600 (CST) Ruby Red wrote: > If the >leader of the Child-Gods religion hadn't been so false, would Hsui Tai >have left? She would probably have allowed herself to be killed, and >no amount of persuasion by Mike would have sufficed. Maybe if they "re-educated" her using stereo headphones. (you all have my permissin to grown, but no water pistols) >I'm not sure whether the manner in >which Elizabeth was "immune" to the Heart of Sogguth was a plot-flaw >or not. Because it's appealing in a spooky sort of way - if there is >a force of evil, there must be a force of good - but on the other >hand, it begs the question, being literally a deus ex machina. >You could also argue that they simply don't *know* why Elizabeth was >immune Yeah, this one's tricky, it becomes, in fact a question of faith. Certainly, it is undeniable that Soguth is real, so if this is the basis for the concept of the devil, then mabye there is something real that is the basis for G-d as well. Contrariwise, it seems like they never *tried* to take over Elizabeth-- they just kept having John try to kill here, and that's not gonna work! (Keep in mind the last time I watched this episode I was doped up on painkillers, but still, I've seen it enough). However, one conclusion that I do feel comfortable drawing acutally has its roots in both TLG< HoS and Castle of Fear. In HoS, at the end, Mike says, "Well, maybe we ought to go to church occasionally" as in, maybe there's something to this religon thing after all. Then in The Lost Gods, Hsui Tai learns not to accept things blindly: "If [John] is here to die, then why am I?" and in CoF, Andrew's father wants to beat him because he thinks Andrew's powers are the work of the devil. He later decides he was possesed for wanting to thrash the boy. Also, he tells Andrew that "you have to have doubts before you can find true faith". The message in all this: don't follow anything blindly, learn to think for yourself. Evaluate what you're being told, does it sound right to you? I don't know about all of you, but there are certainly parts of my own religion that i find less than agreeable (I won't go way off topic into it, but if anyone wants a rant about sexist Hebrew School teachers, I'd gladly email them privately:). Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Matott Subject: TPDIS: Read Receipt Date: 08 Feb 1998 22:59:21 -0500 Your message regarding "Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview" of Sun Feb 08 1998 18:34:19 -0500 was read on Sun Feb 08 1998 22:59:18 -0500. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: TPDIS: New Lab Page! Date: 09 Feb 1998 15:53:41 +1100 I've been updating my Tomorrow People pages, and I've added two new pages which I think people may find interesting. The first is a page devoted to the new Lab (post The Lost Gods). It has a plan of the Lab (as accurate as I can manage) as well as a number of pictures of the Lab's features and furnishings. I know some people have asked about the way things are set out in the Lab before, so this might be of help. The second page is probably of less interest - it's my picture gallery of TP images I find interesting or quirky or that other people wanted. Of most image is a picture of John and Mike in kilts - I know some people said they were interested in seeing them. My pages are at http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html Please, please, please, if you look at them send me your comments - I want my page to be as good as possible and comments are very useful indeed! Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 08 Feb 1998 22:58:13 -0600 Ruby Red wrote: > On Sun, Feb 08, 1998 at 12:11:57PM -0600, Beth Epstein wrote: > > So in that regard, would anyone like to get in a knock-down drag it > out over > > the political implications of The Dirtiest Business or War of the > Empires or > > the religous implications of The Lost Gods and/or Heart of Sogguth? > > Let's see, The Lost Gods says that religions are fake, and Heart of > Sogguth says religions are true? Naw, not really. > > The Lost Gods is an example of the cliche of a religion where the > leader of the religion doesn't believe it, and exploits his followers > for power. It neatly avoided the more difficult situation where *all* > > of the followers of the religion believe it, and the leader is not > exploiting his followers, but the religion is still mistaken. If the > leader of the Child-Gods religion hadn't been so false, would Hsui Tai > > h > ave left? She would probably have allowed herself to be killed, and > no amount of persuasion by Mike would have sufficed. That sends a shiver up my spine. However, if the TP can't kill doesn't that mean that they are incapable of suicide and wouldn't allowing yourself to be killed (for whatever reasons) constitute some form of suicide? BTW, as far as religion goes wouldn't evolution contradict religion. I mean in the Christian religion the bible says that there were seven days and on the sixth there were people walking around naming animals. Several religions believe that a god/goddess/supreme deity created them out of thin air. Evolution starts with a logical starting point and goes in steps. > > > Heart of Sogguth is interesting... I'm not sure whether the manner in > which Elizabeth was "immune" to the Heart of Sogguth was a plot-flaw > or not. Because it's appealing in a spooky sort of way - if there is > a force of evil, there must be a force of good - but on the other > hand, it begs the question, being literally a deus ex machina. > You could also argue that they simply don't *know* why Elizabeth was > immune; the explanation that she was protected by a higher power is > simply a guess. > Well, to me Liz has always been the embodiment of all things good. I think it's the rather cliched- if you've got a pure heart you can't be harmed sort of thing. Suggesting a higher power and/or protective benevolent diety seems just a bit too fantastic for the TP, IM*V*HO. As for religion, I can think of one think: dodge nerf balls. If you watch American tv and things they often do holiday episodes, but will leave out any religious context. This makes sure that they don't affend anyone and get the ratings they need. Perhaps in the seventies it wasn't so important to make sure that all things were free of religion. Now people get mad if you put on a Christmas show and feature the baby Jesus. If you do that about fifty thousand protesters will come barging into your house and yell at you for hours. To me it seems that the Tomorrow People would be evolved beyond religion and worship by that point. Wouldn't they be the higher power, after all? Just rambling, please don't yell this time! Megan ::ducking:: ***** They tell me that if I put anything that is religious into my students heads, I am bad teacher. They say that if I put anything to contradict the religion that I'm not supposed to teach, I'm a bad teacher. If I were to sit the children in a classroom and follow these rules, I'd still be a bad teacher. I can't teach them anything useful without breaking those rules. The teachers can't win! -Meridith Cranley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 16:24:03 +1100 > From: Hal Freeman > > That sends a shiver up my spine. However, if the TP can't kill doesn't > that mean that they are incapable of suicide and wouldn't allowing > yourself to be killed (for whatever reasons) constitute some form of > suicide? BTW, as far as religion goes wouldn't evolution contradict > religion. I mean in the Christian religion the bible says that there > were seven days and on the sixth there were people walking around naming > animals. Several religions believe that a god/goddess/supreme deity > created them out of thin air. Evolution starts with a logical starting > point and goes in steps. Let's deal with your first point. I don't think it's clear whether or not the TP can suicide (I'd say not - it is a form of killing), but whether Hsui Tai's case is a suicide or not is hard to say. Strictly speaking she is allowing herself to be killed - and Carol allowed that in "The Medusa Strain" (of course she survived). I think TP can take actions that can lead to their deaths, but cannot participate actively in killing. As to whether or not evolution and religion go together, this isn't the time or place to discuss that. I'm just addressing one point here because there is a TP relevance below. Evolution is founded on science. Religion is founded on faith. It's impossible for anyone to say which is better with absolute certainty. Most people have their opinions - myself I firmly believe in scientific evolution over any form of creationism. But Evolution is still a theory, not an absolute fact and until such time as it is absolutely proven to the satisfaction of all people, religions will remain viable. And maybe even beyond that. > Well, to me Liz has always been the embodiment of all things good. I > think it's the rather cliched- if you've got a pure heart you can't be > harmed sort of thing. Suggesting a higher power and/or protective > benevolent diety seems just a bit too fantastic for the TP, IM*V*HO. That's a fairly good explanation - as good as any other IMHO. The thing is, though, we already have a 'higher power' of evil in that serial so if we accept that, a 'higher power' of good is not unreasonable, and I think that's what Ruby is saying. > As for religion, I can think of one think: dodge nerf balls. If you > watch American tv and things they often do holiday episodes, but will > leave out any religious context. This makes sure that they don't affend > anyone and get the ratings they need. Perhaps in the seventies it wasn't > so important to make sure that all things were free of religion. Now > people get mad if you put on a Christmas show and feature the baby > Jesus. If you do that about fifty thousand protesters will come barging > into your house and yell at you for hours. > > To me it seems that the Tomorrow People would be evolved beyond > religion and worship by that point. Wouldn't they be the higher power, > after all? They are a higher power - not the higher power. If there is a God, I suspect that his (or her) powers dwarf those of the Tomorrow People. Yes, I feel it's likely that the Tomorrow People are would be less religious than Homo sapien because there are less unknowns for them - just as modern man is less religious than his ancestors. But there are a lot of reasons people follow religions and personally I doubt that evolution is going to put an end to all those religions. Besides anything else, some people want to believe in a higher power. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 22:21:19 +1100 On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 04:24:03PM +1100, Shaun Hately wrote: > > From: Hal Freeman > > > > That sends a shiver up my spine. However, if the TP can't kill doesn't > > that mean that they are incapable of suicide and wouldn't allowing > > yourself to be killed (for whatever reasons) constitute some form of > > suicide? BTW, as far as religion goes wouldn't evolution contradict > > religion. I mean in the Christian religion the bible says that there > > were seven days and on the sixth there were people walking around naming > > animals. Several religions believe that a god/goddess/supreme deity > > created them out of thin air. Evolution starts with a logical starting > > point and goes in steps. > Let's deal with your first point. I don't think it's clear whether or not > the TP can suicide (I'd say not - it is a form of killing), but whether > Hsui Tai's case is a suicide or not is hard to say. Strictly speaking she > is allowing herself to be killed - and Carol allowed that in "The Medusa > Strain" (of course she survived). I think TP can take actions that can lead > to their deaths, but cannot participate actively in killing. Allowing yourself to be killed is *definitely* a TP thing. If you want to take a New Series example, there's Adam and the shark; he could have been killed by the shark, he couldn't defend himself, he was darned lucky (or maybe that was the incident which prompted his first jaunt). The whole tragic irony of the TP not being able to kill is that their only defences are persuasion and running away. > As to whether or not evolution and religion go together, this isn't the > time or place to discuss that. I'm just addressing one point here because > there is a TP relevance below. Evolution is founded on science. Religion is > founded on faith. It's impossible for anyone to say which is better with > absolute certainty. Most people have their opinions - myself I firmly > believe in scientific evolution over any form of creationism. But Evolution > is still a theory, not an absolute fact and until such time as it is > absolutely proven to the satisfaction of all people, religions will remain > viable. And maybe even beyond that. This isn't the time or the place unless we really do want to get into a hot discussion about Science, Evolution, and Religion. I'd just like to make the point that it is a *mistake* to assume that: (a) Science and Religion are mutually exclusive (b) Religion and Evolution are mutually exclusive (c) Science and a non-belief in Evolution are mutually exclusive, though both Shaun and Hal seem to be making these assumptions. A little point about Science. The business of science is to make a model of the measurable world, use that model to make conditional predictions (in this situation, if A happens then B will happen), and then check those predictions by doing experiments, thus testing the hypothesis. It's about figuring out how the world works, not why the world works. Religion is about why the world works. Science *cannot* say one single word to address Religion, it cannot disprove it nor can it prove it. It just observes and describes the material world. From a Theistic viewpoint, it describes how God makes the world run; it cannot say that there is or isn't a God. Scientific theories cannot be proven. They can only be *dis*proven. A theory is valid only so long as it fits all the known facts. If some previously-unknown fact comes along and knocks the theory on the head, then you've got to build a new theory. Which means, in a way, that Science is a matter of faith too; because you have to trust that the theories that you are using at the moment, are true, and aren't going to be disproven in the next five minutes. Evolution is even more of a matter of faith than most scientific theories because you can't go back in time and watch what happened. In regard to Evolution and Science: because Evolution is a theory, that doesn't make one unscientific if you find problems with it; yet the assumption of many people is that any criticism of Evolution is an attack on Science. Probably due to the misguided and head-in-the-sand attitude of the American conservative religious right Creation "Scientists" who stopped using the scientific method a long time ago. But please don't tar all sceptics with that same brush. In regard to Evolution and Religion: well, a belief in Evolution doesn't automatically mean that one can't believe in God. Evolution might have been the way that God did it; it cannot decree, despite what many people think, that God could not have been there to do it. > > Well, to me Liz has always been the embodiment of all things good. I > > think it's the rather cliched- if you've got a pure heart you can't be > > harmed sort of thing. Suggesting a higher power and/or protective > > benevolent diety seems just a bit too fantastic for the TP, IM*V*HO. > > That's a fairly good explanation - as good as any other IMHO. The thing is, > though, we already have a 'higher power' of evil in that serial so if we > accept that, a 'higher power' of good is not unreasonable, and I think > that's what Ruby is saying. Yep! > > As for religion, I can think of one think: dodge nerf balls. If you > > watch American tv and things they often do holiday episodes, but will > > leave out any religious context. This makes sure that they don't affend > > anyone and get the ratings they need. Perhaps in the seventies it wasn't > > so important to make sure that all things were free of religion. Now > > people get mad if you put on a Christmas show and feature the baby > > Jesus. If you do that about fifty thousand protesters will come barging > > into your house and yell at you for hours. The thing that *really* irritates me about this US propensity for non-religious Christmas specials is - why bother? Why do you have to make a special episode about Christmas when all you've got left to talk about is empty sentiment and secular tradition? > > To me it seems that the Tomorrow People would be evolved beyond > > religion and worship by that point. Wouldn't they be the higher power, > > after all? > They are a higher power - not the higher power. If there is a God, I > suspect that his (or her) powers dwarf those of the Tomorrow People. > > Yes, I feel it's likely that the Tomorrow People are would be less > religious than Homo sapien because there are less unknowns for them - just > as modern man is less religious than his ancestors. But there are a lot of > reasons people follow religions and personally I doubt that evolution is > going to put an end to all those religions. Besides anything else, some > people want to believe in a higher power. Well, I've answered some of this above... But I wouldn't say that the Tomorrow People know all that more than us, really. Having special powers does not, as we have seen often enough, make them one whit wiser than ordinary people -- they are just as wise, and just as foolish, as anyone else. And if you equate religion with foolishness, then they would be just as likely to be religious as anyone, wouldn't they? And if you equate religion with wisdom (which I gather that at least Shaun and Hal *don't*) then they would be just as likely to be religious as anyone, also. Or are you saying that knowing more *facts* makes you less inclined to be religious? If that were the case, then all scientists would be atheists - and they aren't. Another little aside, which makes me laugh sometimes, at the earnestness with which it is declared the the TP are the next stage in Evolution: the Tomorrow People can't actually be the next stage in Evolution until they survive, have kids, and take over the world. Until then they're just mutations with the *potential* to take over the world. But then, I'm a pedant. KJA -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 23:33:49 +1100 > From: Ruby Red > > This isn't the time or the place unless we really do want to get into > a hot discussion about Science, Evolution, and Religion. I'd just > like to make the point that it is a *mistake* to assume that: > (a) Science and Religion are mutually exclusive > (b) Religion and Evolution are mutually exclusive > (c) Science and a non-belief in Evolution are mutually exclusive, > though both Shaun and Hal seem to be making these assumptions. Just to clarify here - I am certainly not making any such assumptions, although I can see how someone could gain the impression from my post. I was deliberately simplifying the issue (perhaps too far) into two camps - Evolution/Science and Religion/Faith. There is obviously a great deal of cross over between these two groups. Believe me this is something I have dealt with. I have studied as a scientist, first as an Astrophysicist and now as a Computer Scientist. But my secondary education was done by the Jesuits - with the philosophical and theological education that can entail. I also did two years of the Philosophy and History of Science during my Astrophysics course (probably the most enjoyable part of it). Certainly science and religion are not mutually exclusive - indeed many scientists can arrive at a position where the more they discover about the universe the more they embrace religion. And while religion and evolution are not mutually exclusive, to an extent evolution and creationism are - and it seemed to me that creationism was more what Megan was referring to, rather than pure religion. Obviously forms of evolution and creationism can co-exist but literal creationists will not normally accept most evolutionary theories. And certainly it is possible for a belief in science and evolution don't have to go together - evolution is only a theory, and there are other theories that may be accepted by some scientists. > A little point about Science. The business of science is to make a > model of the measurable world, use that model to make conditional > predictions (in this situation, if A happens then B will happen), and > then check those predictions by doing experiments, thus testing the > hypothesis. It's about figuring out how the world works, not why the > world works. Religion is about why the world works. Science *cannot* > say one single word to address Religion, it cannot disprove it nor can > it prove it. It just observes and describes the material world. > >From a Theistic viewpoint, it describes how God makes the world run; > it cannot say that there is or isn't a God. Certainly - I have no problem at all with that. As I said, I have never intended to present an either/or position - I was merely simplifying in the hope that we could avoid a detailed off topic discussion (which I realise is happening here, but I have a distinct hatred of my viewpoint being misrepresented, and if it has been I feel a need to clarify it. Because either I have not been clear, or a person has drawn erroneous assumptions - in this case it is a lack of clarity on my part.) > Scientific theories cannot be proven. They can only be *dis*proven. > A theory is valid only so long as it fits all the known facts. If some > previously-unknown fact comes along and knocks the theory on the head, > then you've got to build a new theory. Which means, in a way, that > Science is a matter of faith too; because you have to trust that the > theories that you are using at the moment, are true, and aren't going > to be disproven in the next five minutes. Evolution is even more of a > matter of faith than most scientific theories because you can't go back > in time and watch what happened. Of course, science involves faith - the difference IMHO is that with a scientific theory any person can examine the evidence potentially - a scientific position must be based on facts and in nearly all cases, if a person wishes to examine those facts they can access (and sometimes replicate) the original research. The theories based on the research can be incorrect, but the paths taken to arrive at those theories can be followed. With religion, a lot has to be taken on faith - it cannot be traced back and examined. If you take Christianity (as an example), there is no hard evidence that 2000 years ago, a man who could perform miracles and was the Son of God lived in Nazareth. Yet, according to UN figures, over 1 billion people believe just that. > In regard to Evolution and Science: because Evolution is a theory, > that doesn't make one unscientific if you find problems with it; yet > the assumption of many people is that any criticism of Evolution is an > attack on Science. Probably due to the misguided and head-in-the-sand > attitude of the American conservative religious right Creation > "Scientists" who stopped using the scientific method a long time ago. > But please don't tar all sceptics with that same brush. I certainly don't - while I certainly accept that Evolution is by far the most likely theory yet proposed for the development of life, I certainly don't believe that it is the only possible theory and there are valid positions that can be taken for any number of other theories. > In regard to Evolution and Religion: well, a belief in Evolution > doesn't automatically mean that one can't believe in God. Evolution > might have been the way that God did it; it cannot decree, despite > what many people think, that God could not have been there to do it. Of course - and this is actually what I believe. I'm an agnostic - I can't be otherwise because I refuse to accept any fact without proof. For practical purposes I accept many things, but I never say with absolutely certainty they are correct. But as I said, I believed (perhaps erroneously) that when Megan referred to religion, she was more accurately referring to creationism and it is with reference to that belief I made my statements. > But I wouldn't say that the Tomorrow People know all that more than > us, really. Having special powers does not, as we have seen often > enough, make them one whit wiser than ordinary people -- they are just > as wise, and just as foolish, as anyone else. And if you equate > religion with foolishness, then they would be just as likely to be > religious as anyone, wouldn't they? And if you equate religion with > wisdom (which I gather that at least Shaun and Hal *don't*) then they > would be just as likely to be religious as anyone, also. > Or are you saying that knowing more *facts* makes you less inclined to > be religious? If that were the case, then all scientists would be > atheists - and they aren't. I think this is an incorrect assumption - certainly all scientists are not atheists, but that is not what I was saying. What I was trying to say is that modern man as a whole is less religious than his ancestors. And I don't really feel that that is in dispute. Man has a desire to explain the world around him. And one of the motivations of embracing religion is this desire. It is not the only motivation by any means. But as science explains more and more things (at least to the satisfaction of the general populace) it is a motivation that diminishes. There is less need to turn to religion for explanations of these phenomena. The other motivations for religion still remain, of course. And indeed, for some people learning more about the world in a scientific sense, can lead them to religion, because they realise there are some things that science cannot explain. But as knowledge of the world has increased, religious belief has decreased. And while Ruby is probably correct in her belief that the Tomorrow People don't know that much more than the rest of the world does, they do undoubtedly know some more. And so I stand by my position that they are less likely to be religious than those who know less - Homo superior. That, of course, is just my opinion though - I can also see arguments that they might be more likely to be religious. > Another little aside, which makes me laugh sometimes, at the earnestness > with which it is declared the the TP are the next stage in Evolution: > the Tomorrow People can't actually be the next stage in Evolution until > they survive, have kids, and take over the world. Until then they're > just mutations with the *potential* to take over the world. Remember though - they didn't say they were the next stage of human evolution in the first instance. In the original series they were told this by the Sophostrians/Sophists and in the new series by the ship. While technically you may be correct that until they have superseded Homo sapiens they are not the next stage of evolution, in reality they are just saying what they have been told. In both cases, by sources that that they probably feel are more likely to know. Of course, I've always had a problem with the whole term Homo superior anyway - I'd like to know why they aren't just Homo sapiens superior. There's probably a good technical explanation (potentially) but biology is a science I have severe trouble with (it makes me sleepy). Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Matott Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 11:48:09 -0500 Ruby Red said: Everything I wanted to say and more. TP related question - In Origin Story of the new series, wasn't Lisa wearing a cross necklace? I may just be misremembering this. Anyone? (and of course Ami had that pendant thing, but that was a mind control device of Ramses, not really a religious icon) Maybe she would've been shocked out of religion by her experience, but that isn't necessarily so. Just because the Tomorrow People are "the next stage in human evolution" doesn't mean they'll give up religion for "science". As a comparison, astrology and alchemy were "sciences" for a great portion of written history. In fact, the scientific method which everyone espouses the virtues of originated with the alchemists. They kept detailed notes of their experiments and worked by a process of elimination, discounting one hypothesis for another based on their results. (Of course, you can't change one element into another without bombarding it with tons of radiation, but they didn't know that. And maybe someday, it will be simpler than that.) So, I doubt religion is more or less likely an important part of the TPs lives than other people. As for Shaun's comment that the world is less religious in this "scientific" age, these things have a way of swinging. Would you consider the 1800's a "scientific" age? The Age of Reason as it was called started then. It made man and science supreme and god was relatively unimportant. The Romantic Era in the mid to late 1800's was a response to that, in which the author's, poet's, and painter's of the time returned to religion as THE most important aspect of life. Bringing the divine to people's lives. There was a mini-version of this shift in the middle of this century. With World Wars I and II religion fell a bit out of favor, but the nuclear threat of the 50s and the anti-war spirit of the late 60's and early 70's led to a resurgence of religion, in the US at any rate. (Jesus Christ Superstar, Godspell, the rise of paganism and New Ageism). These things tend to balance out over time. I don't think one can state with any authority that we are less religious than our ancestors. mike - atheist playing devil's advocate ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications (was Re: Cult TV interview) Date: 09 Feb 1998 12:00:05 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Ruby Red wrote: > for power. It neatly avoided the more difficult situation where *all* > of the followers of the religion believe it, and the leader is not > exploiting his followers, but the religion is still mistaken. If the > leader of the Child-Gods religion hadn't been so false, would Hsui Now I'm most definietly *NOT* a religous person, but, if the leaders of the religion and the followers truly believe then it can't be *wrong*...as said further on down the replies, religion is faith... Juat because I don't believe in god, that doesn't mean others can't. However, they *shouldn't* extend that belief onto others. A good example of this is, IMHO, the Southern Baptists. Currently, they are boycotting Disney because of thier 'suppossed' gay friendly/anti family bias. The way they are doing this is, i think, a model for other groups... They are not out picketing, or mailing letter bombs or even (and this is important) telling others what they should or should not watch, but simply that their members will not enrich the disney corp. in any way. I think their leaders and followers are wrong, but they are following their beliefs and I can admire that... ScottG this is bad.. Jack Dawson after hearing & seeing the damage done by the iceberg in TITANIC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 12:02:23 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Michael Matott wrote: > > mike > - atheist playing devil's advocate > OTFL... I just couldn't resist the irony! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 11:38:01 -0600 (CST) Ruby Red wrote: >Another little aside, which makes me laugh sometimes, at the earnestness >with which it is declared the the TP are the next stage in Evolution: >the Tomorrow People can't actually be the next stage in Evolution until >they survive, have kids, and take over the world. Until then they're >just mutations with the *potential* to take over the world. Well, actually, in my evolution class, evolution is defined as "genetic change in a population" and therefore "any time a spontaneous heritable mutation causes a genetic change in the population, it is evolution." At least a few individuals are causing a change in the British population, so it is evolution. The question is will natural selection work in their favor? Look for more of this in March when I'm reviewing population genetics for my final. :) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Taylor Subject: TPDIS: TP Genetics? (was Religious implications) Date: 09 Feb 1998 21:41:56 -0000 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD35A3.9C99ABE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <<< Beth Epstein: Ruby Red wrote: >Another little aside, which makes me laugh sometimes, at the = earnestness >with which it is declared the the TP are the next stage in Evolution: >the Tomorrow People can't actually be the next stage in Evolution until >they survive, have kids, and take over the world. Until then they're >just mutations with the *potential* to take over the world. Well, actually, in my evolution class, evolution is defined as "genetic = change in a population" and therefore "any time a spontaneous heritable = mutation causes a genetic change in the population, it is evolution." At least a = few individuals are causing a change in the British population, so it is = evolution.=20 The question is will natural selection work in their favor? Look for more of this in March when I'm reviewing population genetics = for my final. :) >>> Is the difference between TPs and non-TPs genetic? For example = civilizations can 'evolve', those with ideas that work - succeed, those = with ideas that don't work as well - fail and 'ideas' are taught rather = than inherited. An example of such an idea is writing - someone (or = several someones) thought of it and spread the idea by teaching it. With = TPs there is a very efficient way of teaching something - telepathy. The = first TP to break out would be the one who discovers how to use their = powers and then broadcasts it, probably subconsciously to anyone in = range who happens to be receptive (the proximity theory?). Of course, being taught the equivalent of how to read and write in a few = minutes would give anyone a headache! Perhaps that explains the reason = for headaches when breaking out? So all we are waiting for is for someone on the list to 'discover' the = special powers and then most of the list will break out at more or less = the same time! 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(was Religious implications) Date: 09 Feb 1998 16:24:28 -0600 (CST) Peter Taylor writes: >Is the difference between TPs and non-TPs genetic? Well, in "Hitler's Last Secret" John says that "We all have a very special gene that makes us Tomorrow People." While I have cetain problems with it being one gene (unless the difference is some gene that prevents the special powers from being masked), this is the generally accepted theory, afik. Beth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 09 Feb 1998 14:45:39 PST > Racheal (did I get it right?) and others, actually it's RachAEL >just said that one shouldn't try to find ADULT subtext in a KID'S show. Actually i thought that the old series was more science fiction based while the new one was more of a kids program. Many kids wouldn't understand some of the older series, i think it is based on teenages audiences which may still be legally children ( for shauns benefit) but not KIDS Rachael with an A ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Cult TV Interview Date: 09 Feb 1998 18:36:09 -0000 This idea of "alien beings appearing to ancient cultures as gods" is not unique to The Tomorrow People. It also appears in Star Trek, Stargate, Dr. Who and possibly others. Even outside of the strict world of Science Fiction real archaeologists are formulating these theories about real religions.........Who knows?? As a practising Christian I must admit to finding the more abstract theories a bit fanciful....However, as a good plot device for a SCI If show, my religious sentiments are not offended at all! As far as the "Gay sub-text" issue goes, I actually bought the magazine today and read the original article. Both Nick Young and Peter Vaughn Clarke were of the opinion that Roger Price did not intend any "Gay icon" thing, however, they could see where the idea could come from. It occurs to me that if the original actors are open to this interpretation of the show, then maybe we should examine the issue more seriously. (keeping, at all times, within Wendy's parameters of taste and decency.) "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. >I'm going to steer away from 'modern' religions as I don't want to offend >anyone by suggesting that faiths they may hold are rooted in Alien >visitations (enough books do that already), but what do people think of the >suggestion that in the Tomorrow People, there does seem to be an indication >that aliens have had a big impact on our early history at least to a >limited extent. And possibly even to a major extent potentially (if we look >at "A Rift In Time.") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 23:36:16 -0000 >Man has a desire to explain the world around him. And one of the >motivations of embracing religion is this desire. It is not the only >motivation by any means. But as science explains more and more things (at >least to the satisfaction of the general populace) it is a motivation that >diminishes. There is less need to turn to religion for explanations of >these phenomena. The other motivations for religion still remain, of >course. And indeed, for some people learning more about the world in a >scientific sense, can lead them to religion, because they realise there are >some things that science cannot explain. I really didn't want to contribute to this "off topic" thread, but I couldn't let this one go by! The Christian belief is quite clear on the whole subject of creation. I will try to put it simply:- I recognise that in simplifying a subject you are open to the risk of being mis-interpreted, however I'll take the risk. 1)God is the principal author of creation. 2)God made the human race. 3)God made the human race to achieve many great potentials.....one of which being to worship him. 4) It is this desire to worship him which prompts us to seek to learn about him, therefore, among other options, joining one of the world's religions. 5)One of the ways that we can understand God is to understand the nature of the universe that he has made, hence our scientific curiosity.( I do feel that its this way round Shaun.) Now for the Creationists........... 1)The book of Genesis is a PARABLE. (ie a story with an underlying religious meaning.) 2) It is not meant to be taken as a literal history of the way in which the world was made. 3) It was written a long time ago by a more scientifically primitive people who did their best to understand the meaning of life. 4) It really is not fair for people to judge the book of Genesis by 20th Century scientific standards; and thereby use it as a method to de-bunk religion. Now, back on topic. I fail to see what difference their greater scientific knowledge will make to the Tomorrow People's religious belief (or lack thereof). I feel that for them, as for everyone else, it will be a matter of PERSONAL CHOICE. As with most people their religious conviction will be formed by the example of their parents and their private reflections on their lives. Personally, I would suspect that the more the Tomorrow People travel the universe and the more that they see, they will probably feel that the common underlying principals of all the religions make a great deal of sense. "Live long and Prosper." David. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 20:53:34 EST In a message dated 2/9/98 12:25:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, drednort@eisa.net.au writes: > They are a higher power - not the higher power. If there is a God, I > suspect that his (or her) powers dwarf those of the Tomorrow People. GASP! You DARE insult out beloved TPs? Shame on you! -Geoff (Yes, I *am* kidding. You have to expect these sort of things from a teen!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "heidi t." Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 09 Feb 1998 20:50:34 -0500 At 11:48 AM 2/9/98 -0500, Michael Matott wrote: >There was a mini-version of this shift in the middle of this century. >With World Wars I and II religion fell a bit out of favor, but the >nuclear threat of the 50s and the anti-war spirit of the late 60's >and early 70's led to a resurgence of religion, in the US at any >rate. (Jesus Christ Superstar, Godspell, the rise of paganism and >New Ageism). These things tend to balance out over time. I don't >think one can state with any authority that we are less religious >than our ancestors. I, who am staying out of this discussion for the moment, am just going to go off & hum songs from joseph & the amazing technicolor dreamcoat (and no I *don't* have the Mike Holoway version on record - if you do, email me privately!)...... heidi howard tandy "There are only two ways to live your life - one is as if everything is a miracle, the other is as though nothing is a miracle." - Albert Einstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Religious implications Date: 10 Feb 1998 12:53:31 +1100 I'm replying to two posts at once. > From: Michael Matott > > So, I doubt religion is more or less likely an important part of the > TPs lives than other people. As for Shaun's comment that the world > is less religious in this "scientific" age, these things have a way > of swinging. Would you consider the 1800's a "scientific" age? The > Age of Reason as it was called started then. It made man and science > supreme and god was relatively unimportant. The Romantic Era in the > mid to late 1800's was a response to that, in which the author's, > poet's, and painter's of the time returned to religion as THE most > important aspect of life. Bringing the divine to people's lives. > There was a mini-version of this shift in the middle of this century. > With World Wars I and II religion fell a bit out of favor, but the > nuclear threat of the 50s and the anti-war spirit of the late 60's > and early 70's led to a resurgence of religion, in the US at any > rate. (Jesus Christ Superstar, Godspell, the rise of paganism and > New Ageism). These things tend to balance out over time. I don't > think one can state with any authority that we are less religious > than our ancestors. Perhaps you don't believe that - but I certainly do. I may be incorrect, but I could come up with numerous examples from history that support my position if I chose to. Briefly - Copernicus and Galileo for a start. Both scientists and both reviled by certain religious people for their beliefs simply on the basis that they did not match the accepted wisdom of the ages. Statements that the moons of Jupiter did not exist, because there is no reason for God to have created them. These were educated people making those statements - in many cases, the most intelligent and best educated people of their time. And the proposals that Galileo and Copernicus made about planetary motion and the like were demonstrably true at the time they made them (though in some ways still inaccurate - the theories have been greatly refined). Would I consider the 19th century a scientific age? The answer is no, not particularly. Yes, it was an Age of Reason - where scientific logic and the scientific method began to gain more acceptance. But religion was still, by far, the dominant influence in men's lives. When evolution was proposed the major objections argued against it were religious ones and not scientific ones. Today when a scientific theory is proposed the arguments against it are far more likely to involve rival scientific theories than religious ones. And look at our own century. Last century the Modernist movement which attempted to reinterpret Christian doctrine in terms of scientific thought began to emerge. Most of the Modernists were Christians, they tended to regard the dogmas of Christianity as symbolically rather than literally true. In the Roman Catholic church in 1907 - less than 91 years ago, Pope Pius X condemned the Modernists and their attempts to do this in his decree Lamentabli Sane. Later that year in his encyclical Pascendi Dominic Gregis, he described Modernism as a synthesis of all heresies, and "an aliance between faith and false philosophy." In 1910, he issued a document called Sacrorum Antistitum - the Oath Against Modernism, and required all Clergy of the Roman Catholic church to swear it. (I had to check dates and titles in the Funk & Wagnall Encyclopedia here - I actually thought that this had occurred a bit earlier.) This is in the lifetime of people alive today - it is very recent history. And it indicates the efforts and beliefs of certain Christian groups of the early 20th Century to stifle and control scientific thought and research. That is an attitude that is far less prevalent today. Some other Christian groups were less harsh in their treatment of Modernism, but this is still an example of an attitude that did exist at the start of this century and is far less likely to be seen today. If you look at the middle ages, most people writing at that time definitely professed a belief in God - the vast majority. Today the number of people who do is far less. Yes, there may have been a rise in religious belief over the last few years - I'd need to see figures to know for certain, but I can accept that. But I don't believe that that reflects the general trend of the last century which marks the beginning of what I would consider the modern scientific age from about 1880 onwards with its roots in earlier times. As for the notion that The Romantic Age of the mid-to-late 1800s was a reaction to the rise of science in some way, with people turning once again to religion - certainly. And there will probably be a similar reaction to the rise of science today. But it is a partial reaction. Today we have senior religious figures who accept the ideas of evolution and scientific formation of the universe as valid ideas, and begin to talk about things like creation as being metaphors and not literal truth. We have efforts by these groups to try and resolve the differing ideas, rather than rejecting out of hand anything that does not fit their own traditional beliefs. Yes, people may still embrace religion - but the nature and practice of those religions are changing (evolving!) in line with modern thought. Comparatively few people today accept the idea of Creation as compared to 50, 100, 150, or 200 years ago. Far more accept the scientific theories as compared to those times. Yes, religion and science can go together - but some of these people who choose to embrace scientific theories are going to do so in favour of religion. And hence with the increase in proponents and believers in scientific theory there will be some diminishment in the proportion of people following a religion. Perhaps this will be occurring because of a mistaken belief that science and religion are mutually exclusive. But that won't stop it happening. If you choose to believe that the Tomorrow People would be more likely to be religious than modern man, fine - there are plenty of arguments that could be made in favour of that proposal. But all I am stating is my own opinion and my reasons for believing it. I make no claim that it is correct. It may well be incorrect. It may even change - some very good arguments have been made against my position. > From: David Yates > > The Christian belief is quite clear on the whole subject of creation. I > will try to put it simply:- I recognise that in simplifying a subject > you are open to the risk of being mis-interpreted, however I'll take the > risk. > > 1)God is the principal author of creation. > 2)God made the human race. > 3)God made the human race to achieve many great potentials.....one of > which being to worship him. > 4) It is this desire to worship him which prompts us to seek to learn > about him, therefore, among other options, joining one of the world's > religions. > 5)One of the ways that we can understand God is to understand the nature > of the universe that he has made, hence our scientific curiosity.( I do > feel that its this way round Shaun.) OK, fine - I can see those arguments and I accept they are valid. I'm not sure that all Christians would agree with you - I had a Christian upbringing and Christian education, I spent three years on the State and National commitees of the International Young Christian Students movement, and I know many devout Christians who would disagree with you on some of your points (point 4 in particular, and therefore point 5 which follows from it). But let's take your last point and assume it is true, which it certainly is in at least some cases. The desire to understand God is only one reason for scientific curiousity. Another reason is the pure desire to understand the universe itself - without any belief or consideration of a higher power. > Now for the Creationists........... > 1)The book of Genesis is a PARABLE. (ie a story with an underlying > religious meaning.) > 2) It is not meant to be taken as a literal history of the way in which > the world was made. > 3) It was written a long time ago by a more scientifically primitive > people who did their best to understand the meaning of life. > 4) It really is not fair for people to judge the book of Genesis by 20th > Century scientific standards; and thereby use it as a method to de-bunk > religion. The trouble is that some Creationists do accept the story of Genesis to be completely and utterly accurate in all specifics. When I was studying Astrophysics in 1993, a group of students from one of the University Christian groups (don't ask me which one - and I'm not suggesting that all such groups were like this) attempted to occupy one of our lecture theatres in order to prevent the teaching of scientific theories of the creation of the Universe and Earth. They have every right to believe what they like - they don't have the right to push their beliefs on me. Nor do I have the right to force mine on them and I don't. But I will express my opinions, just as they have the right to express theirs. > Now, back on topic. I fail to see what difference their > greater scientific knowledge will make to the Tomorrow People's > religious belief (or lack thereof). I feel that for them, as for > everyone else, it will be a matter of PERSONAL CHOICE. As with most > people their religious conviction will be formed by the example of their > parents and their private reflections on their lives. Good points and I agree with them. Yes, whether or not a Tomorrow Person will be religious will be up to them. And yes, those convictions may be influenced by their parents and by their own consideration. As I have said from the start, there are reasons to follow religion that in no way depend on the rise or fall of science. Those other reasons will remain just as valid and many people will still be religious. But with an increased understanding of the universe, will come less of a need to turn to religious explanations for the phenomena around us. The exception, of course, is if we one day realise that there are some things that cannot be explained scientifically (and that is certainly possible) then the desire for explanation as a motivation for religion may increase dramatically. But until such time as that state of affairs occurs, then I suspect many people will assume that science can eventually, potentially explain the universe. And because of this belief, they will be less likely to turn to religion in the motivation of acquiring knowledge. Although other motivations will still exist. And so, with their increased understanding of the Universe around them as compared to the Saps, I still believe that there will be less religious belief among Tomorrow People than among Homo sapiens. > Personally, I would suspect that the more the Tomorrow People travel the > universe and the more that they see, they will probably feel that the > common underlying principals of all the religions make a great deal of > sense. Believing the common underlying principles of religion does not mean that the person themselves is religious, though. They may be. But I don't think that is automatic. Just one thing I might make clear - whenever I post it is just meant to be my own humble opinion. I don't always makes that clear in the text, but though I may state things as if I believe they are absolute facts at times, that's not my intention. It's simply the way I debate and discuss things. I make an assumption I am right at the time I am typing, even though I realise I may not be. It makes it less confusing that to be constantly adding in IMHO's and clarifications. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tracey.dutton@cableinet.co.uk Subject: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 10 Feb 1998 03:22:41 +0000 Hi all, Just a quick (ish :D) plug for my favourite (its the only one I know of actually) TP fanzine. Issue 5 is due out any time now, and will include the following items: 'Beyond The Tomorrow People' - More behind the scenes stuff on the making of the new 25th anniversary TP programme/soon to be released video. Look-In (comic strip) story - Epic 14 part story where John attempts to save his brother Colin from a crashed space ship on the edge of the solar system and this takes the TP back in time to the 14th century. 2 TP fanfics - 1 from each generation of the show. Plus - Whats new, Starspotting, reprinted vintage 70s/90s shows magazine articles and fan articles/reviews/artwork (occasionally attempted by me!) and more...! Also available: Issues 1 to 4 of Spectra Shift...Ask the Ed for info! If any of the above is 'your cup of tea' then further info is available from the editor Laith Jawzi can be reached via email at S9503559@llandrillo.ac.uk ...Thank you and goodnight...! Tracey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Genetics? (was Religious implications) Date: 08 Feb 1998 03:45:03 -0800 > Well, in "Hitler's Last Secret" John says that "We all have a very special gene > that makes us Tomorrow People." While I have cetain problems with it being one > gene (unless the difference is some gene that prevents the special powers from > being masked), this is the generally accepted theory, afik. i was thinking about that when i saw it, too. wasn't he explaining it to Mike, though? (this is a genuine question - there's a good chance my memory isn't serving me accurately) perhaps he was just simplifying things so that Mike could understand the basic idea. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Genetics? (was Religious implications) Date: 09 Feb 1998 22:38:10 -0600 (CST) Arpi wrote: >perhaps [John] was just simplifying >things so that Mike could understand the basic idea [of genetics]. And it would take quite abit... but seriously, 95% of the problem was it was 1978 and Genetics just wasn't as well understood as it was today. In other words, if you're taking genetics in school DON'T base any of your answers on that discussion, you won't do very well. :) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 09 Feb 1998 21:49:34 PST >>just said that one shouldn't try to find ADULT subtext in a KID'S >>show. > >Actually i thought that the old series was more science fiction based >while the new one was more of a kids program. Many kids wouldn't >understand some of the older series, i think it is based on teenages >audiences which may still be legally children ( for shauns benefit) >but >not KIDS Interesting. For me, it's reversed. The original series strikes me as much more of a children's show than the new series does. The only times that the new series really strikes me as being aimed for the kiddies are during The Origin Story and Monsoon Man (interestingly enough, the bottom two stories on my list of Fave New Series Stories). The original series seems much more simplistic in story-telling style, and has a far greater tendency to soap-box, giving stories wrapped around some moral lesson as well as taking the odd opportunity to stop the story stone cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. The new series has always struck me as much more sophisticated in story construction, and (this'll put me in a minority of one) a little on the dark side (third season especially). Comments? Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 09 Feb 1998 23:55:32 -0600 (CST) Darryl wrote: >[the original series takes] the odd opportunity to stop the story stone >cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. specific examples, please? I can't think of any! Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Caroline Fales Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 02:28:32 -0500 At 09:49 PM 2/9/98 PST, you wrote: > >>>just said that one shouldn't try to find ADULT subtext in a KID'S >>>show. >> >>Actually i thought that the old series was more science fiction based >>while the new one was more of a kids program. Many kids wouldn't >>understand some of the older series, i think it is based on teenages >>audiences which may still be legally children ( for shauns benefit) >>but >>not KIDS > >Interesting. For me, it's reversed. The original series strikes me as >much more of a children's show than the new series does. The only times >that the new series really strikes me as being aimed for the kiddies are >during The Origin Story and Monsoon Man (interestingly enough, the >bottom two stories on my list of Fave New Series Stories). The original >series seems much more simplistic in story-telling style, and has a far >greater tendency to soap-box, giving stories wrapped around some moral >lesson as well as taking the odd opportunity to stop the story stone >cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. The new series >has always struck me as much more sophisticated in story construction, >and (this'll put me in a minority of one) a little on the dark side >(third season especially). I think you have a point, Darryl; the new series has an edge that's not present in the old series. The stories were a little darker, esp. in that last season. Of course this could be a reflection of the times both shows were made. Caroline _____________________________ "If one begins with the big questions of 'Who am I?' and 'Why am I here?', the understanding of the roads back in history seems as important as the ones forward, whether or not it pertains to the individual or the collective, to the subject of love or the control of information." --Loreena McKennitt "Yea, though I walk through the valley--" "Could you walk a little faster through that valley, friend." --Fellow Titanic Passenger and Jack Dawson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 02:32:56 CST >Interesting. For me, it's reversed. The original series strikes me as >much more of a children's show than the new series does. >The original >series seems much more simplistic in story-telling style, and has a far >greater tendency to soap-box, giving stories wrapped around some moral >lesson as well as taking the odd opportunity to stop the story stone >cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. The new series >has always struck me as much more sophisticated in story construction, I only saw a few new seires episodes, but I'd considered both kids shows. I think the differences in the shows is more a difference in children's shows in general. TV pushes kids to grow up these days - and kids push the world to let them grow up . They always have, but fewer people are telling them to wait now. I don't know everyone's age, but I also think how we see it is probably influenced a lot by our ages and how old we were when we were first introduced to it. If we were teens I would *guess* that it would be harder to call it a *kids* show out of that teenage pride & that 1st impression could be hard to change. I was young enough not to worry about it for the first series and old enough not to care for the new series. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 01:47:17 PST >Darryl wrote: >>[the original series takes] the odd opportunity to stop the story stone >>cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. > >specific examples, please? I can't think of any! >Tigger You would call me on that, wouldn't you? :) I was going by impressions that stuck with me from when I watched the episodes, but they aren't vivid enough in my mind for me to say this episode, this scene, this line. (And I may have indeed overstated things by using the phrase stone cold) Let's see what I can call up from the recesses of my mind. Um... erm... not a lot of truly specific examples are spring to mind. I recall "The Vanishing Earth" grinding to a halt a few times for some sermonizing concerning the environment (although a lot of this did happen at the beginning, before the story actually had a chance to start!). There was the tendency to over-emphasize the general prinicples of the series ("we can't kill", "the saps are too aggressive", etc) in a rather moralistic manner to the point where occassionally even the casual viewer had to be screaming "We know already!" (This also popped up in The Origin Story, so I'm thinking this is truly a Price-thing.) The story that is the biggest and most vivid offender in my mind is actually one of my favorite stories. It's The Doomsday Men, when we learn for the first time that the original series TPs are fascist! Li (or was it Lee?) was absolutely right. What the TPs were doing *was* brainwashing, with a sugary euphanism to make the medicine go down. "No no no, we're not *brainwashing* them, we're *re-educating* them!" And the subject was handled in such a condescending manner. I'm always reminded of the scene in the Doctor Who story "Robot", when Sarah Jane is interviewing members of the right-wing Scientific Reform Society. We are the next stage of human evolution. We are homo superior. We are the superior race. We know what is best for you to think, to believe. And if you don't think or believe that, we will make sure that you *do* believe it. The approach the TPs take is rather, to be blunt, fascistic. And this was on top of Liz's lecture earlier in the story concerning their hypocricy and sense of superiority. Time for me to dust off my original series tapes and jog my memory. (Not now, though, it's 4:46AM, and I haven't gone to bed yet! ) Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 10 Feb 1998 13:01:41 -0000 WHAT 25th Anniversary special??????????? "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. -----Original Message----- >'Beyond The Tomorrow People' - More behind the scenes stuff on the >making of the new 25th anniversary TP programme/soon to be released >video. > >Look-In (comic strip) story - Epic 14 part story where John attempts to >save his brother Colin from a crashed space ship on the edge of the >solar system and this takes the TP back in time to the 14th century. > >2 TP fanfics - 1 from each generation of the show. > >Plus - Whats new, Starspotting, reprinted vintage 70s/90s shows magazine >articles and fan articles/reviews/artwork (occasionally attempted by >me!) and more...! > >Also available: Issues 1 to 4 of Spectra Shift...Ask the Ed for info! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 11 Feb 1998 00:35:28 +1100 > From: Darryl Gillikin > > > Interesting. For me, it's reversed. The original series strikes me as > much more of a children's show than the new series does. The only times > that the new series really strikes me as being aimed for the kiddies are > during The Origin Story and Monsoon Man (interestingly enough, the > bottom two stories on my list of Fave New Series Stories). The original > series seems much more simplistic in story-telling style, and has a far > greater tendency to soap-box, giving stories wrapped around some moral > lesson as well as taking the odd opportunity to stop the story stone > cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. The new series > has always struck me as much more sophisticated in story construction, > and (this'll put me in a minority of one) a little on the dark side > (third season especially). > > Comments? Well, I disagree personally. I can see no darkness in the new series that didn't exist in the original one. If you want dark serials, I would have "The Dirtiest Business" as by far the darkest serial of either original or new series. I'd also say that "Hitler's Last Secret", "The Doomsday Men", and "Secret Weapon" are at least as dark as "The Living Stones" or "The Rameses Connection." I'd have placed "The Rameses Connection" higher if it hadn't been for Millicent and Co - while that could have been done well, it was not, IMHO. As for more sophisticated plots - to an extent I agree. I would say that the average complexity of the new series stories beats the original series. But there are individual stories in the original that I think are the most sophisticated - in particular "The Blue and The Green", although "A Rift in Time" is also fairly sophisticated in my opinion. I think part of the problem is that with the new series, they always had 5 episodes to work with for a story and only a few of the original stories had that luxury. I'd have to say personally that I believe the original series to be aimed at an older age group than the new, at least if we only consider the earlier episodes. Post "Hitler's Last Secret" the show began to get increasingly simplistic and humourous appealling to a lower common denominator. You didn't have to think anywhere near as much. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 11 Feb 1998 00:54:16 +1100 > From: Darryl Gillikin > > The story that is the biggest and most vivid offender in my mind is > actually one of my favorite stories. It's The Doomsday Men, when we > learn for the first time that the original series TPs are fascist! Li > (or was it Lee?) was absolutely right. What the TPs were doing *was* > brainwashing, with a sugary euphanism to make the medicine go down. "No > no no, we're not *brainwashing* them, we're *re-educating* them!" And > the subject was handled in such a condescending manner. I'm always > reminded of the scene in the Doctor Who story "Robot", when Sarah Jane > is interviewing members of the right-wing Scientific Reform Society. We > are the next stage of human evolution. We are homo superior. We are > the superior race. We know what is best for you to think, to believe. > And if you don't think or believe that, we will make sure that you *do* > believe it. The approach the TPs take is rather, to be blunt, > fascistic. And this was on top of Liz's lecture earlier in the story > concerning their hypocricy and sense of superiority. The Tomorrow People? Fascists? That's a new one on me - although I do see your point. But I'd offer a couple of points in their defence. With regards to the Doomsday Men, it is quite clear that the boys concerned have been educated with an incomplete view of war. They have been fed ideas of glory and honour in combat, without having been shown the darker side of war - the fact that people die. A lot of my own education was like that - not quite to that level, but in its fundamentals. And many people do emerge from it with a quite ridiculous idea of what war is - ridiculous in the sense it is totally inaccurate. Fundamentally speaking, the boys have been brainwashed and indoctrinated prior to ever getting to the Lab. You state that what the Tomorrow People are doing is brainwashing - my question is, how do you know? Is it brainwashing to give people accurate information that allows them to make an informed choice? And from what is said in that serial that appears to be what is being done - they are being given the parts of the information about war that has been denied to them before. It is said in the serial that in the final analysis, they will still have the right to choose. I don't see that we have any reason to suspect that anymore is being done that what is said is being done - they are merely being given facts in order to facilitate their final choice. And in my opinion that is not brainwashing. As to your other point if we take the sentences you have outlined which I suppose are meant to be the TPs logical progression of thought ("We are the next stage of human evolution. We are homo superior. We are the superior race. We know what is best for you to think, to believe. And if you don't think or believe that, we will make sure that you *do* believe it.") I would agree with you up to the final sentence. Yes, the Tomorrow People do believe they are the next stage of human evolution. Yes, they are Homo superior. Yes, they believe they are a superior race. Yes, I think they do feel that they know what is best. But it is that last sentence I disagree with - they do not seek to make others agree with them. It is clearly stated in The Doomsday Men (IIRC - it's nearly 1am here and I'm not going to root out my tapes to make certain) that at the end of the "re-education" process, the boys will still have the full right and ability to make their own choice. That's not to say I disagree entirely with you - I do see where you are coming from, and I'm sure many people will be just as uncomfortable with the suggestion of "reeducation" as are with "brainwashing". And the TP can undoubtedly be patronising to the Saps. In my opinion, the best example is in "The Vanishing Earth" where John doesn't want to tell the Saps the world is in danger ("It might be kinder not to tell them."), but I don't personally think that a patronising attitude of that nature quite equates to fascism, and IMHO, the events of "The Doomsday Men" are merely an extension of the attitude expressed in TVE. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 09 Feb 1998 22:42:27 -0800 Darryl wrote: > Interesting. For me, it's reversed. The original series strikes me as > much more of a children's show than the new series does. The only times > that the new series really strikes me as being aimed for the kiddies are > during The Origin Story and Monsoon Man (interestingly enough, the > bottom two stories on my list of Fave New Series Stories). The original > series seems much more simplistic in story-telling style, and has a far > greater tendency to soap-box, giving stories wrapped around some moral > lesson as well as taking the odd opportunity to stop the story stone > cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. The new series > has always struck me as much more sophisticated in story construction, > and (this'll put me in a minority of one) a little on the dark side > (third season especially). i agree with you - The New Series didn't seem to be aimed to the same audience that the network was (although i have to say, i think The Original Series seems like less of a "kids' show"). i think that that's probably why it didn't do too well, among other reasons. (i've been pestering Nickelodeon to tell me their reasoning, but they won't tell me, so i have to make my own judgements) in my experience, my friends (and the kids i babysit) stop(ped) watching Nick at around 9 or 10. The Tomorrow People seems to be aimed at a much higher age level than that. when The Origin Story first aired, i was 8 years old. i was a faithful viewer of Nickelodeon, and was excited to sample a new program (i remember them advertising it as "the first mini-series for kids!" or something to that extent). i regret that i was unable to view the entire program as i was hauled off to bed by my mother. the next day at school, several of my friends had managed to watch the entire serial. i remember them being very confused, but liking it nonetheless. The Origin Story, IMHO, is one of the easiest ones to follow along (The Rameses Connection probably being the most difficult - or maybe that was just my first impression. i never saw the chapters in the correct order until the third time around). if the higher end of nickelodeon's viewers had a difficult time with the easiest to follow of the show, it couldn't have been too well liked. whenever i meet someone who watched The New Series when they were younger (either by them noticing my sig, or my t-shirt, or the pictures plastered all over my room and school supplies) they seem to always comment something along the lines of "i saw that show when it first aired! did it keep airing? i never really knew what time it was on". Geoffrey was a victim of this phenomenon until i set him straight! :) so, apart from the audience decreasing from nickelodeon's normally large pool of kids who sit in front of the TV for 10 hours a day because of difficulty following along, i think many of the kids who would have potentially enjoyed the show were confused as to when it was on, and therefore unable to watch it and help the ratings. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 10:45:31 -0600 (CST) Darryl wrote: > I >recall "The Vanishing Earth" grinding to a halt a few times for some >sermonizing concerning the environment (although a lot of this did >happen at the beginning, before the story actually had a chance to >start!). I remember one, maybe two lines to that effect and they didn't seem to stop the story that much. >There was the tendency to over-emphasize the general >prinicples of the series ("we can't kill", "the saps are too >aggressive", etc) in a rather moralistic manner to the point where >occassionally even the casual viewer had to be screaming "We know >already!" Remember it was designed to be watched once, one episode per week; unfortunately they had to do a lot of that for the first time viewers. There is a reason there's a drinking game cue for this one, though. >It's The Doomsday Men, when we >learn for the first time that the original series TPs are fascist! Li >(or was it Lee?) was absolutely right. What the TPs were doing *was* >brainwashing, with a sugary euphanism to make the medicine go down. "No >no no, we're not *brainwashing* them, we're *re-educating* them!" I'm gonna have to concede the stopped story point here, but I think brainwashing might be a little strong-- then again, some of the dialogue after Douglas and (Lucas?) come out of it is pretty cheesy. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 10:58:29 CST >in my experience, my friends (and >the kids i babysit) stop(ped) watching Nick at around 9 or 10. The >Tomorrow People seems to be aimed at a much higher age level than that. I think that's my problem - I think of it as a kid's show *because* it was on Nick and I can't change my first impression. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tracey.dutton@cableinet.co.uk Subject: Re: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 10 Feb 1998 18:45:04 +0000 David Yates wrote: > WHAT 25th Anniversary special??????????? Its a TP documentary...its already been filmed. Its about the 70s version, and will feature interviews with Nicholas Young, Peter Vaughan Clarke, Sammie Winmill, Elizabeth Adare, Mike Holoway, Dean Lawrence and Philip Gilbert. TV rights are presently being discussed, and a video should be available to buy sometime soon :) Tracey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Doomsday Men (was Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show?) Date: 11 Feb 1998 07:12:40 +1100 On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 01:47:17AM -0800, Darryl Gillikin wrote: > > The story that is the biggest and most vivid offender in my mind is > actually one of my favorite stories. It's The Doomsday Men, when we > learn for the first time that the original series TPs are fascist! Li > (or was it Lee?) was absolutely right. What the TPs were doing *was* > brainwashing, with a sugary euphanism to make the medicine go down. "No > no no, we're not *brainwashing* them, we're *re-educating* them!" And > the subject was handled in such a condescending manner. I actually agree with you here. It was basically brainwashing, and I was very uncomfortable with it when I first saw it (or maybe when I second saw it, I can't remember), because, though I can understand why they thought that they should do it, I don't think they were right. Informed choice? This was "deprogramming", the kind of thing that people do with members of cults when they want to rescue them; counter-brainwashing. Why is this so? I'm not saying that the images of war that the boys were being given were false, but they were being fed them at such a rate and in such a manner that they were overwhelming, and unjudgeable. The boys were given no chance to decide *whether* the information they were being given was true, and that's brainwashing, IMHO. If you think that the end justifies the means, then it was perfectly okay for the TP to brainwash those boys. War *is* lousy and horrible and no longer contains any glory. It did used to, because way back when, it was a game for soldiers, with honour and rules that were actually followed. Now there are no rules, and those who deal out death are not at risk of dying themselves, and thus have no need for either honour or courage. (There are some times when I think the Compact of Darkover makes a deal of sense...) Of course the external reason for the brainwashing scene is that they didn't have *time* to be more naturally persuasive. KJA -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 22:07:51 GMT Firstly it can't be denied that both series were kids shows. The target ages would have been slightly different, but only at the upper end. In the 1970s children's television was targetted in the UK at 5-15 year olds overall, with the TP probably being 9-15. These days the upper age is generally about 13, although the children's ratings still measure up to 15 I think. IMO the original series became simpler and cruder overall in general after the fifth series, and that the first Pressman/Cathro written series was written at a lower level, which maybe wasn't too surprising since their experience comes from shows for a younger audience. Still both of these are generalisations with their own exceptions. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bookwyrm@sprynet.com Subject: TPDIS: ADMIN: Quoting Date: 10 Feb 1998 16:35:25 -0800 (PST) Could we please *try* to keep quoting down to around 4 lines per thing being responded to? This list isn't so active that people can't remember the contents of a post from one message to another. ... Wendy bookwyrm@sprynet.com * http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/ Listowner Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Asst. Listowner Sliders Creative & Discussion Lists at esosoft ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 10 Feb 1998 18:46:14 -0600 (CST) Tracy wrote: >TV rights are presently being discussed, and a video >should be available to buy sometime soon :) Any chance of an ntsc version? Tigger (who should probably invest in a vcr that does pal, but it's gonna have to wait....) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: FLASHBACK! (Was RE: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) etc!) Date: 10 Feb 1998 21:27:42 EST In a message dated 2/10/98 10:46:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, arpitp@juno.com writes: > Geoffrey was > a victim of this phenomenon until i set him straight! :) I remember the first time I watched the new series. It was i think on my b- day, or the day of the party. It was the first chapter of "The Culex Experiment", and I loved it! I saw it advertised for being on the next day, so I wathced it even though it was the same ep. I continued to watch it and I also saw some of other serials such as "The Orgin Story" (or maybe I saw that way before, I dunno, a little help please!). Then Nick moved the time it was on, and I never saw it until I was on the phone with Arpi (well after I had met her, mind you!) and she said "Shhh! I'm watching The Tomorrow People". Me: Seriously? I used to watch that show (or loved it, or something like that!)! I thought they cancelled it. Arpi: GASP! (it was SOMEthing like that, at least!) And there was my re-entry into The Tomorrow People. -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 21:20:52 EST In a message dated 2/10/98 4:49:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, tpwannabe@hotmail.com writes: > Um... erm... not a lot of truly specific examples are spring to mind. I > recall "The Vanishing Earth" Stop right there! You can NOT use "Vanishing Earth" ::shudder:: as an example. That was, IMHO, easily one of the WORST old series eps! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 18:46:23 PST Well i have only been introduced to both recently and being 17 i don't consider mself as an authority on kid's shows anymore, but the older series appealed to me more. Maybe it was the fact that the characters were more mature, ie: john, carol, and elizabeth, when compared to kevin, megabyte and jade. Especially with a character as annoying as Jade and as young it just seemed like one of those chessy kids shows we get here in Aust. Rachael with an A ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tzm" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 10 Feb 1998 22:36:30 -0500 Funny, I agree that the older series was less of a kids show. Maybe because after watching the originals again, a number of the actors just seem older than the ones in the newer eps. Tracey---------- > > Interesting. For me, it's reversed. The original series strikes me as > much more of a children's show than the new series does. The only times > that the new series really strikes me as being aimed for the kiddies are > during The Origin Story and Monsoon Man (interestingly enough, the > bottom two stories on my list of Fave New Series Stories). The original > series seems much more simplistic in story-telling style, and has a far > greater tendency to soap-box, giving stories wrapped around some moral > lesson as well as taking the odd opportunity to stop the story stone > cold to give a lesson to the youngsters in the audience. The new series > has always struck me as much more sophisticated in story construction, > and (this'll put me in a minority of one) a little on the dark side > (third season especially). > > Comments? > > Be seeing you, > Darryl > > "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there > were worms in my baguette..." > Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part > two)" > > "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've > accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart > was my age, he had been dead for two years." > Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tzm" Subject: TPDIS: ykyhbwtmtpw Date: 10 Feb 1998 22:24:52 -0500 You are sitting in class listening to a case story being read by the professor when he announces the part where the first grade student is hearing voices, you immediately think, He may be a little young, but I would suggest to the teacher that he was probably just breaking out at a very young age. Tracey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tzm" Subject: TPDIS: Quandry Date: 10 Feb 1998 22:41:11 -0500 What does TIM's name stand for? It is always written in caps, so I know it must mean something. Tracey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tzm" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 10 Feb 1998 22:58:03 -0500 LAst I heard, there wouldn't be, Boo Hoo :( The other Tracey ---------- > > Any chance of an ntsc version? > Tigger (who should probably invest in a vcr that does pal, but it's gonna have > to wait....) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 09 Feb 1998 23:13:02 -0800 > Its a TP documentary...its already been filmed. Its about the 70s > version, and will feature interviews with Nicholas Young, Peter Vaughan > Clarke, Sammie Winmill, Elizabeth Adare, Mike Holoway, Dean Lawrence and > Philip Gilbert. TV rights are presently being discussed, and a video > should be available to buy sometime soon :) available in the US? --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Matott Subject: TPDIS: Read Receipt Date: 11 Feb 1998 14:33:13 -0500 Your message regarding "Re: TPDIS: Religious implications" of Mon Feb 09 1998 11:48:09 -0500 was read on Wed Feb 11 1998 14:33:06 -0500. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "heidi t." Subject: Re: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 11 Feb 1998 14:35:02 -0500 At 11:13 PM 2/9/98 -0800, Ariana B wrote: >> Its a TP documentary...its already been filmed. Its about the 70s >> version, and will feature interviews with Nicholas Young, Peter Vaughan >> Clarke, Sammie Winmill, Elizabeth Adare, Mike Holoway, Dean Lawrence >and >> Philip Gilbert. TV rights are presently being discussed, and a video >> should be available to buy sometime soon :) > >available in the US? > Okay, who offers to dub for us poor saps (yes, I mean that in BOTH ways) in the US? Willing to pay taping & shipping costs............ heidi howard tandy "There are only two ways to live your life - one is as if everything is a miracle, the other is as though nothing is a miracle." - Albert Einstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "heidi t." Subject: Re: TPDIS: Spectra Shift Issue 5 Date: 11 Feb 1998 14:34:26 -0500 At 11:13 PM 2/9/98 -0800, Ariana B wrote: >> Its a TP documentary...its already been filmed. Its about the 70s >> version, and will feature interviews with Nicholas Young, Peter Vaughan >> Clarke, Sammie Winmill, Elizabeth Adare, Mike Holoway, Dean Lawrence >and >> Philip Gilbert. TV rights are presently being discussed, and a video >> should be available to buy sometime soon :) > >available in the US? > >--Ariana > >"If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my >life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > heidi howard tandy "There are only two ways to live your life - one is as if everything is a miracle, the other is as though nothing is a miracle." - Albert Einstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 15:48:27 +1100 I was just looking at my "Doctor Who Blooper List" and was wondering if anyone had ever compile a similar list for The Tomorrow People - a list of errors and/or bloopers that got into final aired versions. If not, why don't we start one. I've only ever noticed three errors myself and they are: 1) In Origin Story, when Megabyte and Kevin are in the taxi travelling to the hall Lisa disappeared from, Kevin starts of in the right passenger seat and switches to the left. 2) Also in Origin Story, Megabyte is wearing a Ren and Stimpy T-shirt when he is being chased by Gloria and Galt. There is an orange Nickelodeon symbol on the back (I think it's a Nick symbol - but regardless it is there.) Later on, he is the orange mark has disappeared. 3) In the Culex Experiment, the registration number Megabyte enters into the police computer is different from the number plate on the bike - two digits are in the wrong place. I don't claim to be the only person to have noticed these or even the first, I'm just putting them on the list and hoping other people may have also seen errors worth mentioning. Original or New series, and for all I know other people may have made a list before. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 11 Feb 1998 23:09:10 -0600 (CST) > if >anyone had ever compile a similar list for The Tomorrow People - a list of >errors and/or bloopers that got into final aired versions. That would be torture if you counted every time PVC/Stephen misspoke.... Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 01:47:01 PST >That would be torture if you counted every time PVC/Stephen misspoke.... >Tigger Unfair, He was not the only one who made mistakes, Dean Lawrence couldn't even talk properly at all. Be nice to Stephen, he was one of the best characters Rachael with an A and no I'm not biased at all. (Shut up Shaun) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 10:05:26 -0600 (CST) >Unfair, He was not the only one who made mistakes, Dean Lawrence >couldn't even talk properly at all. Be nice to Stephen, he was one of >the best characters I think it's Tyso who couldn't talk properly, not the actor, it was part of the character. And I am nice to Stephen,he's one of my favorite characters, but he does have a tendency to stop in midword and start over a lot (actually, so do I, but most tv characters don't), so if you count that as a blooper, it'd be an awful lot to record. And if you want to have an open discussion forum about the show,people shouldn't jump down others' throats every time they say the slightest thing wrong about their favorite character-- people will be too afraid to say anything. Calling them on it is fine, but just "be nice to so & so" doesn't domuch than make others hesitate to speak uo. >and no I'm not biased at all. >(Shut up Shaun) See what I mean? Tigger (this sort of thing is the reason I didn't want to form who-likes-whom amps) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Temesha Chatman Subject: TPDIS: New Web Page Date: 12 Feb 1998 11:20:10 -0500 Hi, everyone! Thought you'd might like to know that I have a new TP web page up. It features mainly image and sound files, but there are also my episode synopses for "Slaves of Jedikiah" and "The Medusa Strain," and Shaun's transcript of the new series pilot. Right now the image and sound files are all new series-related, but that will change with time. The URL is http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~tchatman/TLCtphome.htm *WARNING*: This site has an embedded sound file of the new series theme. If your browser can't handle embedded files (Netscape might reject it depending on your security preferences) or if you don't want to disturb anyone else who might be in the room with you, then go to the alternate site (sans sound), http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~tchatman/TLCtphome2.htm Enjoy, Temesha Temesha Lynn Chatman Cambridge Technology Partners East Brunswick, NJ tchatm@ctp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tracey D Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 19:39:49 +0000 Errrrrm......Hsui Tai...?! Only kidding. I just wish I knew what she saying half the time! Right, on with the bloopers :) 1. Costume continuity in 'One Law' for several of the TP 2. Stephens hairstyle in 'Into The Unknown' changing several times in length and style! 3. In The origin story, Lisa is being fitted for a dress in one scene, and you see a tv thats on and showing Ren & Stimpy. We're led to believe that only Lisa and her 'mom' are present in the room, and mom is tending to Lisas dress. Neither is holding a tv remote control, yet a volume reduction graphic appears on the tv screen. Tracey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 13 Feb 1998 09:34:19 +1300 (NZDT) Hello to everyone again after a year away from the tpdis list. From all the new names it certainly looks like it has grown. About these errors. As well as listing them, why not try and explain them away. I've found that if you really try hard enough you can often come up with two or three (albeit sometimes ridiculous) excuses for mistakes. Its a great exercise for lateral thinking. e.g. costume continuities - maybe they're actually wearing those suits with the "chameleon" ability and it has developed a glitch. the tv display - involuntary display of PK prior to breaking out? The changing hairstyles has me flummoxed though. Any suggestions? Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tracey D Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 20:45:56 +0000 Michael Edmonds wrote: > The changing hairstyles has me flummoxed though. Any suggestions? > > Michael Oh I *see* :) Tim was having an off day and thought it would be a laugh to cut Stephens hair / make it grow / change the style several times in one scene? :p Or the continuity ppl were just below par? :) Tracey D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 15:01:42 -0600 (CST) Tracy D wrote: > Or the continuity ppl were just below par? :) Or there were like 6 weeks between shoots 'cause of strikes and PVC decided he really really needed a haircut in the interim. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tracey D Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 21:07:42 +0000 Beth Epstein wrote: > Or there were like 6 weeks between shoots 'cause of strikes and PVC decided he > really really needed a haircut in the interim. > Tigger Yeah, that too :-D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 21:01:08 GMT Tracey D wrote: > 1. Costume continuity in 'One Law' for several of the TP > 2. Stephens hairstyle in 'Into The Unknown' changing several times in > length and style! Not surprising really, when some episodes took over 6 months from first to last shot - must be a Production Assistant's nightmare. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 12 Feb 1998 20:01:21 EST In a message dated 2/10/98 10:40:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, hera101@hotmail.com writes: > Especially with a character as annoying as > Jade now wait just a minute! Jade is one of my favorite TPs! She's smart, nice, inquisitive, etc. If any of the new series characters is evil, it's ::shudder:: Lucy! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SunStar77@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) Date: 12 Feb 1998 20:09:12 EST I like Jade too! Kate ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 12 Feb 1998 20:16:52 -0600 > now wait just a minute! Jade is one of my favorite TPs! She's smart, > nice, > inquisitive, etc. If any of the new series characters is evil, it's > ::shudder:: Lucy! > -Geoff Oooh, don't say that, I've got gooseflesh now just thinking about it. Lucy Allen is a Lois Lane wannabe. Adam is like Superman, and she's Lois Lane. Lois Lane always got Superman/Clark Kent into so much trouble. Lucy always got Adam into trouble only she decided to bring the Tomorrow People into it! She annoys the heck outta me. I can't think about it anymore. And to think that Adam liked her...I can't even think about it. She's the bad guy that we never listed. She got Adam into so much trouble. I'd strangle her, but I'm a pacifist and John wouldn't approve. :) :) :) Jade ranks so far above her that it's not even funny! Even Lisa didn't go *there*. Lisa wasn't like Lucy. Lisa was scared, Lucy was evil. If I think about it anymore, I may go nuts, Megan ******** Some people you want to strangle, but some people you wouldn't want to get that close to them. -Jared Allen Greyley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amanda Ohlin Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 12 Feb 1998 21:52:21 -0500 At 08:16 PM 2/12/98 -0600, Megan very correctly wrote: > > She annoys the heck outta me. I can't think about it anymore. And to >think that Adam liked her...I can't even think about it. She's the bad >guy that we never listed. She got Adam into so much trouble. I'd >strangle her, but I'm a pacifist and John wouldn't approve. :) :) I know. You'd think that after getting so irritated over Megabyte and Jade rushing off, Adam would have just gotten sick and tired of Lucy pretty quick. Maybe that's why she vanished after Monsoon Man. I admit that someone with a bit of an impulsive streak might be good for Adam just because he's always in leader mode, but Lucy really pushed it. Besides, the character just grated after a while. I remember watching a rerun of Monsoon Man with the flu and cheering at one of the cliffhangers that made it look like she was doomed. > Jade ranks so far above her that it's not even funny! Even Lisa >didn't go *there*. Lisa wasn't like Lucy. Lisa was scared, Lucy was >evil. Lisa gave herself up in the pilot and (we generally assume) left the TP to protect her mother. Lucy ran off and jeopardized herself and several other people because she wasn't happy covering a bake sale. >If I think about it anymore, I may go nuts, >Megan > Then don't think about it. Or write a fic with the death of Lucy. Harmless venting is no problem, especially when you've got a point. Outbursts and homicidal intentions aside, I think Lucy was a bit extreme. Of course, so were all the bad guys in that serial, so in a way it fits. This has been yet another $.02 from Mandi. :) -- Amanda Ohlin (aka Mandi) fanfic fanatic and nitpicker extraordinaire nemesis of the Hood College foodservice staff "Aimee, you're the only social outcast I know who has so many friends!" --Lisa Dreisch http://www.netgsi.com/~kiarad/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tzm" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 22:05:27 -0500 I have one from TOS, When Adam is at Lisa's place and notices the hidden camera he has a watch on, but when you see Col, Masters observing him through the monitor, Adam's watch vanishes. It is there on all the scenes in Lisa's apt, but every scenenfrom the b/w monitor,his watch has disappeared. Tracey ---------- > > > 1) In Origin Story, when Megabyte and Kevin are in the taxi travelling to > the hall Lisa disappeared from, Kevin starts of in the right passenger seat > and switches to the left. > > 2) Also in Origin Story, Megabyte is wearing a Ren and Stimpy T-shirt when > he is being chased by Gloria and Galt. There is an orange Nickelodeon > symbol on the back (I think it's a Nick symbol - but regardless it is > there.) Later on, he is the orange mark has disappeared. > > 3) In the Culex Experiment, the registration number Megabyte enters into > the police computer is different from the number plate on the bike - two > digits are in the wrong place. > > I don't claim to be the only person to have noticed these or even the > first, I'm just putting them on the list and hoping other people may have > also seen errors worth mentioning. Original or New series, and for all I > know other people may have made a list before. > > Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how > Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears > / |that might turn out to be just what the > o=== ======================- |species needs.' > \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' > drednort@eisa.net.au | > http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ANA ISABEL SACRISTAN R." Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 23:38:00 CST >Hello to everyone again after a year away from the tpdis list. From all >the new names it certainly looks like it has grown. I also greet everyone again after my 3+ months "on the Trig". I agree with Michael about all the new names and postings! It's nice to see the list growing. About the bloopers, here's one: In The Doomsday Men when Stephen and his friend (don't remember his name) are spying through the window of the cabin where the pseudo-kidnappers are, none of them are wearing jaunting belts, and yet when they are brought into the cabin they are. About Stephen, Rachael wrote: >Be nice to Stephen, he was one of >the best characters In fact he was by far by favorite character. In that CultTv interview PVC said he was pissed off for a year after being written out. I am still angry 20 years later! I was so upset back then I almost stopped watching the TP altogether. And I still rate the episodes in terms of Stephen's presence and importance in the story. Ana. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 13 Feb 1998 19:25:59 +1100 > From: Hal Freeman > > > Oooh, don't say that, I've got gooseflesh now just thinking about it. > Lucy Allen is a Lois Lane wannabe. Adam is like Superman, and she's Lois > Lane. Lois Lane always got Superman/Clark Kent into so much trouble. > Lucy always got Adam into trouble only she decided to bring the Tomorrow > People into it! Yes, but at least Lucy is different - I don't know why but I can definitely see why Adam likes her. She's so energetic and - keen. Yes, keen is the right word. And as for getting the TP into trouble - come on! They don't need any help at all to get into trouble. > She annoys the heck outta me. I can't think about it anymore. And to > think that Adam liked her...I can't even think about it. She's the bad > guy that we never listed. She got Adam into so much trouble. I'd > strangle her, but I'm a pacifist and John wouldn't approve. :) :) :) She may have got Adam into trouble - but he didn't go anywhere he didn't want to go. Of course, I'd like to know how many people expected her to breakout? Personally I think Lucy would *like* being compared to Lois Lane. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Donald Gillikin" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 13 Feb 1998 08:00:50 PST Michael wrote: >The changing hairstyles has me flummoxed though. Any suggestions? > Well, obviously, it's the rarely mentioned psionic ability of "folliclekinesis". :-) -Donald ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 13 Feb 1998 12:26:04 CST >>The changing hairstyles > rarely mentioned psionic ability of >"folliclekinesis". :-) Obviously. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bookwyrm@sprynet.com Subject: TPDIS: bloopers Date: 13 Feb 1998 16:56:45 -0800 (PST) Does someone want to keep track of the blooper submissions for me? I don't have time to do it, but would love to add them to the Thread Theory. ... Wendy bookwyrm@sprynet.com * http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/ Listowner Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Asst. Listowner Sliders Creative & Discussion Lists at esosoft ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 11 Feb 1998 00:23:37 -0800 Tracey D wrote: > 3. In The origin story, Lisa is being fitted for a dress in one scene, > and you see a tv thats on and showing Ren & Stimpy. We're led to believe > that only Lisa and her 'mom' are present in the room, and mom is tending > to Lisas dress. Neither is holding a tv remote control, yet a volume > reduction graphic appears on the tv screen. just something i noticed from this scene (i'm not sure whether or not it should be counted as a blooper since i haven't seen that episode of Ren & Stimpy. has anyone?) Ren says "i'm the cat" and then there's a few seconds of music before Lisa's mother says something alone the lines of "just a few more inches and it will be perfect". the strange this is that Stimpy is the cat, not Ren. if this was a clip made especially for the TP, whoever made it screwed up. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 11 Feb 1998 00:30:46 -0800 Michael Edmonds wrote: > The changing hairstyles has me flummoxed though. Any suggestions? hmmm... well, maybe Stephen was wearing AE suits instead of real clothing and using the spectra shift to fool with his hair as well as clothing (if it can make Chris look a gorilla... on second thought, that's not too difficult). --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 11 Feb 1998 00:30:17 -0800 Beth wrote: > Or there were like 6 weeks between shoots 'cause of strikes and PVC decided he > really really needed a haircut in the interim. or perhaps the other way around - PVC was being a good actor and not touching it - but it took so long to film that his hair grew! (they don't nessisarily film the scenes in order) --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: TPDIS: Re: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) etc!) Date: 11 Feb 1998 00:13:45 -0800 Geoff wrote: > and she said "Shhh! I'm watching The Tomorrow People". > Me: Seriously? I used to watch that show (or loved it, or something like > that!)! I thought they cancelled it. > Arpi: GASP! > (it was SOMEthing like that, at least!) And there was my re-entry into The > Tomorrow People. couldn't be. there's absolutely no way i would have hung on the phone when the TP was on. i probably said "i've got to go - the TP is on it 4 hours". --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: TPDIS: ykybwtmtpw... Date: 11 Feb 1998 01:01:57 -0800 ...you carry around a TP tape not because you intend to view it in the near future, but just because you like your tape. ...you get comments from parents like "you really *do* need a pet, you've adopted your tape!" ... you get accused of watching The Tomorrow People when you should be doing your homework, and you complain that you were simply taking your "pet" Culex Experiment tape for a walk. ...you take a TP tape in PAL format to the store to be converted to NTSC. the guy who does the conversion puts it up on the screen and attempts to asks you if this is in fact the tape you want converted, but you're too busy shrieking "it's Christian Tessier! i can't believe it!". ...you have to leave your tape overnight at the shop for it to be converted, and you call the shop to "check on it", since it might be getting homesick. ...you consider asking the shopkeeper if you can speak with your tape, but decide against it. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: Which is more of a kid show? (WAS CULT TIMES) etc!) Date: 14 Feb 1998 15:20:19 EST In a message dated 2/13/98 10:38:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, arpitp@juno.com writes: > couldn't be. there's absolutely no way i would have hung on the phone > when the TP was on. i probably said "i've got to go - the TP is on it 4 > hours". Or maybe yoiu said "Shh, The Tomorrow People is on soon!". You get the idea! ;-) -Geoff P.S.- Happy Valentine's Day all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: TPDIS: ykybwtmtpw... Date: 14 Feb 1998 18:28:31 -0600 Ariana, remind me never to come between you and your tape. Classic story of a girl and her TP tape. Cassie, the loyal Culex Experiment tape. That was a hoot! Megan ****** She blinded me with me science She hit me with technology -Thomas Dolby ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 14 Feb 1998 20:27:34 EST Okay, I thought of something that's probably been thought of, but if it has been, I've never heard it! Anyway, here it is: a Tomorrow People MUD! A MUD is a multi-user dungeon, a role-playing game. Like "Dungeons & Dragons"! We could have the lab, the ship, etc.! your weapons would be stun guns, spells would be jaunting and stuff. Has this been done? if not, I'd be happy to work on one! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 15 Feb 1998 13:31:26 +1100 On Thu, Feb 12, 1998 at 08:16:52PM -0600, Hal Freeman wrote: > > now wait just a minute! Jade is one of my favorite TPs! She's smart, > > nice, > > inquisitive, etc. If any of the new series characters is evil, it's > > ::shudder:: Lucy! > > -Geoff > > She annoys the heck outta me. I can't think about it anymore. And to > think that Adam liked her...I can't even think about it. She's the bad > guy that we never listed. She got Adam into so much trouble. I'd > strangle her, but I'm a pacifist and John wouldn't approve. :) :) :) > > Jade ranks so far above her that it's not even funny! Even Lisa > didn't go *there*. Lisa wasn't like Lucy. Lisa was scared, Lucy was > evil. Oi! Hey! Wait-a-minute-here! I liked Lucy! So there. She had spunk, she wasn't a wimp, she was enthusiastic, and she was interesting! And she didn't break out. (Yes, that is a plus. Why can't they have interesting SAPS for friends, eh?) Got Adam into trouble? Oh, and you think that they *shouldn't* have tried to stop Colonel Cobb? Oh, and she really *forced* him into it, like, dragged him kicking and screaming? Hey, she got into trouble and she *rescued herself*! *That's* someone you gotta admire. How *dare* you say that Lucy was evil! That is Going Too Far. Stunguns at dawn. The unconscious loser will be tied up and covered with cold, sticky porridge. -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 15 Feb 1998 11:12:36 -0600 (CST) Ruby Red wrote: >Why can't they have >interesting SAPS for friends, eh? That's what I wanna know! I was kinda annoyed when Jade broke out for precisely the same reasons. (I still don't like Lucy, but...) >How *dare* you say that Lucy was evil! That is Going Too Far. I have to agree here. >Stunguns at dawn. The unconscious loser will be tied up and covered >with cold, sticky porridge. No, not cruel enough. Beige foam (the bland, soggy tasteless stuff that all intitutional food, at least at Carleton, is made from), now that's torture. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 15 Feb 1998 09:32:38 PST I like the idea of a TP RPG. I'm not too keen on using the D&D system, though. One of my first RPG experiences was with FASA'a Doctor Who RPG, which was a little too closely copied from FASA's Trek RPG for me to enjoy. I'd much rather a TP RPG have it's own system, or maybe fitted into the GURPS system, which was designed more with adaptation in mind. Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 15 Feb 1998 10:02:21 PST My turn, I guess. I have to admit, I liked Lucy Allen. That shouldn't come as a big shock, considering she's either been mentioned or appeared in each of my fics (granted, she was evil in one of them, but still... She no more got Adam into trouble than Jade did to Megabyte in the cliffhanger to "The Living Stones", part four. Or Ami and Megabyte to Adam in "Monsoon Man" by their trip to Triple C headquarters, for that matter. Lucy was intelligent, inquisitive, and brave--all good qualities. Unfortunately, Laurence Bouvard can't act her way out of a paper bag (IMHO), and that's where I start having problems with Lucy. So it's more in the concept than the execution that I like the character. As for Jade... Jade is virtually tied with Adam in my opinion as the best of the new series TPs. She's has a highly curious and sharp mind, she seems quite observant, she's brave, and to agree with Shaun's impressions page, I would have loved to have seen the young teenager versus two near adults chemistry that should've developed between the three if the series had continued. As for the comments about having an interesting Sap friend, this is blown out of proportion, as far as I'm concerned. There are a grand total of five new series stories to judge, and in those stories, only two break-out aged characters learn of the TP (not counting Ami, who is clearly breaking out when she meets Adam and Megabyte). And of those two characters (Lucy and Jade), a whopping total of one of them breaks out. Big whoop. Anyway, my pair of pennies. :) Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: TPDIS: ykygbwtmtpw Date: 15 Feb 1998 10:04:59 PST You know your girlfriend's beem watching too much TP when, at the end of a special evening, she looks over at a pyramid-shaped candle, and the first words out of her mouth are, "Oh, look--Tamanya!" Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michele R Mason Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 15 Feb 1998 13:29:07 -0500 At 09:32 AM 2/15/98 PST, you wrote: >I like the idea of a TP RPG. I'm not too keen on using the D&D system, >though. I like the idea, but I agree here. No D&D system. It just won't work--D&D's fun, but it's not truly a balanced system. >I'd much rather a TP RPG have it's own system, or maybe fitted >into the GURPS system, which was designed more with adaptation in mind. How about the Whitewolf Gaming system? Just as a base of design; I like the method of generating characters--it's extremely balanced. They also have out a sci-fi system now based on psionic abilities that might be handy for just this sort of thing! That's my two cents on the matter. A rabid RPGer speaks out, Michele (returns to her lurking hole) _________________________________________________________________ "I don't believe that Monsieur Monet would be blushing." "He does landscapes." -- Rose and Jack, "Titanic" "You jump, I jump remember?" -- Rose DeWitt Bukater, "Titanic" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 15 Feb 1998 12:34:44 -0600 > She had spunk, she wasn't a wimp, she was enthusiastic, and she was > interesting! > And she didn't break out. (Yes, that is a plus. Why can't they have > interesting SAPS for friends, eh?) > Okay, I'll give her that. She wasn't my favourite, but it was nice to see Adam enjoy himself. In as much as Lucy got Adam in to trouble, he enjoyed himself. Which was nice to see. Adam always so self-sacrificing and all around good-guy. It was nice to see him get a girl and loosen up a little. Lucy, I don't like. What she did for Adam, I do. As for saps as friends, well, I think it's nice that they do. Saps'd keep them grounded for one thing. For another, they maybe evolved, but it's still nice to know that you can be 1/2 normal. It's good to have diversity in life, if they were just around TP's then they'd probably get a bit stuck up and stop socialising. > Stunguns at dawn. The unconscious loser will be tied up and covered > with cold, sticky porridge. I'm reluctant to use my stun gun for such a worthless purpose, but if you insist! However, I'm not in the same time zone as you so, we'll have to work out an acceptable time. I'm open at 6:00 CST Recharging stun gun, practising aim, Megan ***** "Great, now we're fighting over who gets the bigger half of a doughnut! I thought we were evolved!" "We are, but I'm not taking that tiny little piece, evolved or not!" -Maggie and Brad G:T- Necessary Evils ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michele R Mason Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 15 Feb 1998 13:40:41 -0500 Michele delurks again to add another two cents to the discussion of a TP RPG and the systems that should or should not be used. I was talking to my fiancee' and his best friend, veteran gamers for fifteen and twenty-five years respectively. They pointed out the following to me: The AD&D system produces unrealistic characters that are either a) two weak, or b) impervious and impossible to defeat. This however, is wonderful for a fantasy oriented games with such fanciful trappings as magic and the "dungeon crawl" so to speak. Inappropriate for a modern gaming world however because there is no way to balance the scales. The AD&D system is also focused on action and combat, something that TP's well, aren't. Yes, AD&D does have a Psionics class, but like all AD&D characters, psionicists tend to be of heroic magnitudes. They are heavy handed and unrealistic. While the Psionics book would be an interesting sourcebook, it is the AD&D system, with strong emphasis on combat and epic heroic characters. GURPS is slightly more appropriate than the AD&D system because the character generation is skill based. However, in this case, one would most definitely need to reference the psionics book. The WhiteWolf system focuses on role-play. WhiteWolf also forces a person to create a realistic, balanced character because the characters are generated on a point based system instead of via die rolls. Michele ::re-engages lurk cloaking device:: _________________________________________________________________ "I don't believe that Monsieur Monet would be blushing." "He does landscapes." -- Rose and Jack, "Titanic" "You jump, I jump remember?" -- Rose DeWitt Bukater, "Titanic" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 15 Feb 1998 15:12:53 EST Okay, I wanna clarify something. I didn't mean we'd USE the D&D system, I'm just trying to explain to people the basic idea of a MUD with D&D as an example. To reply to all these comments, I don't know all that much about MUDs, so someone would HAVE to help me. Any volunteers? -Geoff In a message dated 2/15/98 1:32:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, chelesedai@mindspring.com writes: > At 09:32 AM 2/15/98 PST, you wrote: > >I like the idea of a TP RPG. I'm not too keen on using the D&D system, > >though. > I like the idea, but I agree here. No D&D system. It just won't work--D&D's > fun, but it's not truly a balanced system. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 15 Feb 1998 14:28:23 -0600 (CST) One word: Infocom. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ruby Red Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 16 Feb 1998 07:00:20 +1100 On Sun, Feb 15, 1998 at 12:34:44PM -0600, Hal Freeman wrote: > > She had spunk, she wasn't a wimp, she was enthusiastic, and she was > > interesting! > > And she didn't break out. (Yes, that is a plus. Why can't they have > > interesting SAPS for friends, eh?) > > Okay, I'll give her that. She wasn't my favourite, but it was nice to > see Adam enjoy himself. In as much as Lucy got Adam in to trouble, he > enjoyed himself. Which was nice to see. Adam always so self-sacrificing > and all around good-guy. It was nice to see him get a girl and loosen up > a little. Lucy, I don't like. What she did for Adam, I do. Somewhat of a concession, I see. > As for saps as friends, well, I think it's nice that they do. Saps'd > keep them grounded for one thing. For another, they maybe evolved, but > it's still nice to know that you can be 1/2 normal. It's good to have > diversity in life, if they were just around TP's then they'd probably > get a bit stuck up and stop socialising. Which is defintiely a likely danger; the old-series TPs *were* a bit stuck-up, IMHO. Even though I like them. Or maybe I'm just thinking of John, who tended to be patronizing towards SAPS. > > Stunguns at dawn. The unconscious loser will be tied up and covered > > with cold, sticky porridge. > > I'm reluctant to use my stun gun for such a worthless purpose, but if > you insist! However, I'm not in the same time zone as you so, we'll have > to work out an acceptable time. I'm open at 6:00 CST Well, it's always dawn *somewhere* in the world. KJA -- Ruby Red "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SapphireSky Subject: Re: TPDIS: bloopers Date: 15 Feb 1998 16:57:37 -0400 Hello everyone, I've finally come out of lurking (as you all like to put it). I recently got my old series tapes, and have been sort of busy with those! I'd love to keep track of the bloopers, and add some of my own. Now, some of these may not be oficially "bloopers", but little things that are interesting to note about the show. In no particular order: 1) In "The Rameses Connection" Part 4, when Adam climbs up to Rameses' desk, and the wall closes in behind him, one his legs was still on one of the stairs. When the camera cuts to a frontal shot, though, both of his legs are on the solid floor. 2) In "Monsoon Man" Part 2, Wilkie goes into the Reporter building with the intention of retrieving the roll of film that Lucy had dropped off. He had no idea that the roll of film had been sent somewhere, but yet, when Wilkie returns to the car, Middlemass asks him if he got the "address". Uh-oh, is Middlemass on the verge of breaking out? :) 3)As we've noted before, in "The Origin Story" Part 2, the reporter notes that Lisa is 15, although she states in the previous episode that she's in fact 16. 4)In "The Origin Story" Part 4, Megabyte runs into a dance club, and later, Professor Galt speaks with his cleaning lady. The music being played in the club was the same music to which the cleaning lady was listening to on her walkman. 5) Again, as we've discussed before, the aerial shot of Clearwater, Virginia in "The Origin Story Part 4 is re-used as a shot of Florida in "Monsoon Man" Part 2. 6) In "The Origin Story" Part 1, we get a clear view of Lisa's cab's licence place when it pulls up at the school: 966 RUN. Later, in Part 4, one of DSI's car has this same licence plate number. 7) In "The Culex Experiment" Part 5, I'm pretty sure that the twins switched places as the left Dr. Conner's room, from the shot where they thank the guards to when they are shown from the back, walking down the hall. 8) At the end of "The Origin Story" Part 3, Kevin is nearly run over by a truck. But, if you look at it, Kevin looks to be lined up with the middle of the truck, but he's also in front of the cars parked along the side of the street. If the truck driver had continued on his current track, ke would have been headed right for those parked cars. 9) In "The Culex Experiment" Part 1, after Megabyte puts his money in the Kit Kat machine, and says "Aw great," the machine starts shaking for some reason. I have no idea what's up with that. 10) In "The Rameses Connection" Part 1, if you look carefully at Tutankhamen's jewelry, you'll see that Ami's earrings and Adam's necklace are hanging from his clothes! 11) In "The Living Stones" Part 1, when General Damon looks at Jade's pictures of the "meteor", it appears to be flying downward to the LEFT. But from Jade's point of view, it was falling to the RIGHT. 12) In "The Origin Story" Part 2, the cab that Megabyte and Kevin ride in says something about Florida on top. I am remimded that Shaun thought this was from the pilot, and since some of that was taped in Florida, I have to suspect that he's correct. That's all that I can think of for now; I'll letcha know if anymore come to mind. Rachel with an E :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: bloopers Date: 15 Feb 1998 14:51:57 -0600 (CST) Rachel wrote: >11) In "The Living Stones" Part 1, when General Damon looks at Jade's >pictures of the "meteor", it appears to be flying downward to the LEFT. >But from Jade's point of view, it was falling to the RIGHT. Oops, looks like whatever photolab what's-his-name used (Jim probably:) flipped the negative. Tigger (as long as we're explaining things) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SapphireSky Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 15 Feb 1998 17:08:50 -0400 > She no more got Adam into trouble than Jade did to Megabyte in the > cliffhanger to "The Living Stones", part four. Or Ami and Megabyte to > Adam in "Monsoon Man" by their trip to Triple C headquarters, for that > matter. Lucy was intelligent, inquisitive, and brave--all good > qualities. Yeah, but Jade was about 14 or 15! Lucy was in college, and really should have known better. I don't condone Jade's behavior - she was wrong and shouldn't have left Mrs. Tom's house. But that was one instance, while Lucy kept looking for trouble over and over again. Okay, I never liked Lucy. From the very start, she was careless. She invites a man she doesn't even know into her house, tells him that she's the only one living there, and announces that she's walking around with her keys and cash. Sure, the man turned out to be Adam, but she doesn't know that! She continued to involve herself in danger, time and time again. I don't find her intelligent. Every time I watch the end of "Monsoon Man" Part 4, I'm compelled to say, "Did you ever hear of a rear-view mirror?" "Oh yeah, just take off your helmet so that you're even more noticable and recognizable" "Sure, just sneak around the side of the truck even though you know Wilkie's right in front of it". I admit, I broke in to a cheer when Wilkie grabbed her and said that she was going to die. Okay, a little harsh, I realize, but The Tomorrow People find enough trouble on their own, and they don't need somebody creating more of it! Rachel with an E :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Lucy - ::shudder:: Date: 15 Feb 1998 14:57:39 -0600 > Somewhat of a concession, I see. Consession my foot! I still don't like Lucy. I'll never like Lucy. What are you trying to prove? I don't consess, I merely point out. My views are still the same as they were, and I still am annoyed by Lucy. > Well, it's always dawn *somewhere* in the world. I just got it back! I've been a good girl with it and I'll continue to be. I'm not going to teleport half around the world to get my butt kicked! I maybe pretentious, but not an idiot. Bets say that you're a better aim and taller than I am. You think I'm nuts, dontcha? I'm not fighting over Lucy for crying out loud! Even if you won, I'd still not like Lucy. There's nothing to be gained. It's a waste of time, I have homework, I have things I have do in a days time, I've got fan fic to complete, I don't have the time to waste on Lucy so I'm not gonna. If you want to duke out lets go get some beige foam from Carleton! I'll take my foam and you take yours and that'll be that. Stun guns are entirely uncalled for. John wouldn't approve, and I'd like to hang on to my stun gun. You try getting it away from TIM and Tigger! Raspberries! Megan ******* "Brenden, you're evolved, not invinsible" -Natalie Generation: Tomorrow ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: Re: TPDIS: bloopers Date: 15 Feb 1998 13:48:04 PST I haven't noticed anyone post this one, but even though it's fairly obvious, it's always amused me: In part two of "The Living Stones", when Bradley contacts General Damon after discovering the seeds, Damon says, "Stay there. I'll be right over." Bradley responds by commenting that it's perfectly harmless. Yet, in part three when Adam and Megabyte watch that moment on the videotape, Damon's "Stay there" line *follows* Bradley's "perfectly harmless" line, instead of preceeding it. I have my own fun. Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: bloopers Date: 11 Feb 1998 18:03:48 -0800 Rachel with an E wrote: > 3)As we've noted before, in "The Origin Story" Part 2, the reporter > notes that Lisa is 15, although she states in the previous episode that > she's in fact 16. hmmm... i think i can explain this. in the pilot, the same reporter reports on Lisa's disappearance. i've never looked at it closely enough to tell for sure, but maybe they just snagged that footage and used it in The Origin Story. especially since Lisa does say that she is 15 in the pilot. > 4)In "The Origin Story" Part 4, Megabyte runs into a dance club, and > later, Professor Galt speaks with his cleaning lady. The music being > played in the club was the same music to which the cleaning lady was > listening to on her walkman. i've noticed this before, too, and i wouldn't say that it is necessarily a blooper. perhaps the song was very popular at that point in time? or, just another weird Origin Story add-in to see if we're watching carefully? (like the turtle man and the "that's my cinnamon doughnut!" scene). > 9) In "The Culex Experiment" Part 1, after Megabyte puts his money in > the Kit Kat machine, and says "Aw great," the machine starts shaking for > some reason. I have no idea what's up with that. well, what do you expect to happen when a Telekinectic gets irritated with an object? :) > 10) In "The Rameses Connection" Part 1, if you look carefully at > Tutankhamen's jewelry, you'll see that Ami's earrings and Adam's > necklace are hanging from his clothes! i guess Tomorrow People all throughout history have had the same taste in jewelry! --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 11 Feb 1998 17:46:13 -0800 Geoff wrote: > Okay, I wanna clarify something. I didn't mean we'd USE the D&D system, I'm > just trying to explain to people the basic idea of a MUD with D&D as an > example. To reply to all these comments, I don't know all that much about > MUDs, so someone would HAVE to help me. Any volunteers? i really don't know any more than you do, Geoff, but if you're going to give it a shot, i'm behind you :) let me know if there's anything i can do. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 16 Feb 1998 14:05:48 +1100 > From: Latimer84@aol.com > > Okay, I wanna clarify something. I didn't mean we'd USE the D&D system, > I'm just trying to explain to people the basic idea of a MUD with D&D as > an example. To reply to all these comments, I don't know all that much > about MUDs, so someone would HAVE to help me. Any volunteers? Well speaking as a Computer scientist and an amatuer RPG designer of some note (-8 I'd be willing to help. In terms of the idea of a TP role playing system - I have one. I've been working on it on and off for about 18 months and have actually run a few games with it at various times. For those who understand the particulars of RPGs, it's rule engine is rather similar to that of White Wolf's Storyteller system but using a d6 base scale (so also in some ways similar to Shadowrun, I guess). Give me a few days and I'll put it on the web so people can critique it - there are a few minor changes I would make first. The biggest problem with a TP RPG is that their powers seem rather absolute - Telepathy works, Telekinesis works, Teleportation works - we rarely see circumstances where failure occurs except by an external source. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tzm" Subject: Re: TPDIS: bloopers Date: 15 Feb 1998 22:37:35 -0500 Man you have been busy. ---------- > > > Hello everyone, I've finally come out of lurking (as you all like to > put it). I recently got my old series tapes, and have been sort of busy > with those! > > I'd love to keep track of the bloopers, and add some of my own. Now, > some of these may not be oficially "bloopers", but little things that > are interesting to note about the show. In no particular order: > > 1) In "The Rameses Connection" Part 4, when Adam climbs up to Rameses' > desk, and the wall closes in behind him, one his legs was still on one > of the stairs. When the camera cuts to a frontal shot, though, both of > his legs are on the solid floor. > > 2) In "Monsoon Man" Part 2, Wilkie goes into the Reporter building with > the intention of retrieving the roll of film that Lucy had dropped off. > He had no idea that the roll of film had been sent somewhere, but yet, > when Wilkie returns to the car, Middlemass asks him if he got the > "address". Uh-oh, is Middlemass on the verge of breaking out? :) > > 3)As we've noted before, in "The Origin Story" Part 2, the reporter > notes that Lisa is 15, although she states in the previous episode that > she's in fact 16. > > 4)In "The Origin Story" Part 4, Megabyte runs into a dance club, and > later, Professor Galt speaks with his cleaning lady. The music being > played in the club was the same music to which the cleaning lady was > listening to on her walkman. > > 5) Again, as we've discussed before, the aerial shot of Clearwater, > Virginia in "The Origin Story Part 4 is re-used as a shot of Florida in > "Monsoon Man" Part 2. > > 6) In "The Origin Story" Part 1, we get a clear view of Lisa's cab's > licence place when it pulls up at the school: 966 RUN. Later, in Part > 4, one of DSI's car has this same licence plate number. > > 7) In "The Culex Experiment" Part 5, I'm pretty sure that the twins > switched places as the left Dr. Conner's room, from the shot where they > thank the guards to when they are shown from the back, walking down the > hall. > > 8) At the end of "The Origin Story" Part 3, Kevin is nearly run over by > a truck. But, if you look at it, Kevin looks to be lined up with the > middle of the truck, but he's also in front of the cars parked along the > side of the street. If the truck driver had continued on his current > track, ke would have been headed right for those parked cars. > > 9) In "The Culex Experiment" Part 1, after Megabyte puts his money in > the Kit Kat machine, and says "Aw great," the machine starts shaking for > some reason. I have no idea what's up with that. > > 10) In "The Rameses Connection" Part 1, if you look carefully at > Tutankhamen's jewelry, you'll see that Ami's earrings and Adam's > necklace are hanging from his clothes! > > 11) In "The Living Stones" Part 1, when General Damon looks at Jade's > pictures of the "meteor", it appears to be flying downward to the LEFT. > But from Jade's point of view, it was falling to the RIGHT. > > 12) In "The Origin Story" Part 2, the cab that Megabyte and Kevin ride > in says something about Florida on top. I am remimded that Shaun > thought this was from the pilot, and since some of that was taped in > Florida, I have to suspect that he's correct. > > That's all that I can think of for now; I'll letcha know if anymore > come to mind. > > Rachel with an E :) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: TPDIS: CT sighting (or did someone already say this?) Date: 17 Feb 1998 10:27:32 EST Okay, last night it was... 11 PM... and I happen across Cinemax and see Christian Tessier! YEAH! It turns out he stars in this movie, called "Natural Enemy," about a woman who has a baby and then sends it away to be adopted, except the kid gets abused and so gets all "Psycho." And so he reaches his real Mom... who's had another kid (Christian!!) named Chris (coincidence??), and acts all nice and all, and then tries to kill them all. Anyone ever seen "Copy Cat?" (bad movie) The psycho kid is the main bad guy in that, I think his name is William McNamara. Besides that, Keifer Sutherland and Tia Carriere (sp?) were in it too. I only saw the tail end of the movie, but there was a little instance with Christian in a speedo... >:) Christian looked a little bit older then when he was in "Living Stones," but he'd grown out his hair again (like in Origin Story). His voice got deeper too (again!!) Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SunStar77@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 17 Feb 1998 10:48:17 EST No actually this was a real episode of Ren and Stimpy. Stimpy won something and Ren wanted it so he was trying to convince the prize people he was Stimpy. Scary that I remember that much. Kate ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Temesha Chatman Subject: RE: TPDIS: CT sighting (or did someone already say this?) Date: 17 Feb 1998 11:25:43 -0500 I have some images of CT in "Natural Enemy." If you're interested go to http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~tchatman/ct_ne.htm --Temesha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 17 Feb 1998 13:26:52 -0600 > Scary that I remember that much. > > Kate Nah, it's only scary if you can remember every detail about every ep of Clarissa Explains it All, and Salute Your Shorts. After years of hiding I admit it: I was a TV addicted kid, Megan ******* You need to know that There's nothing strange about it You need to know Your Friends -Our Lady Peace "Clumsy" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: CT sighting (or did someone already say this?) Date: 17 Feb 1998 16:10:53 -0600 AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: > Okay, last night it was... 11 PM... and I happen across Cinemax and > see > Christian Tessier! YEAH! It turns out he stars in this movie, called > > "Natural Enemy," about a woman who has a baby and then sends it away > to be > adopted, except the kid gets abused and so gets all "Psycho." And so > he > reaches his real Mom... who's had another kid (Christian!!) named > Chris > (coincidence??), and acts all nice and all, and then tries to kill > them all. > Want another coincidence, I spent all of Monday trying to find a synopsis of that movie and CT's character on the 'net. > I only saw the tail end of > the movie, but there was a little instance with Christian in a > speedo... >:) Ooh, I must see it! CT in a speedo, ooh. What colour was it? I don't care how bad it is, I'll fast forward it to the part with CT in a speedo ::girly giggle:: I'm feeling the slightest bit sinister, I may rent it. Speedos, ooh ::attempting to hide snicker:: Megan ***** You need to understand There's nothing strange about it You need to know You friends -Our Lady Peace "Clumsy" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AmyH3x4@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: CT sighting (or did someone already say this?) Date: 17 Feb 1998 17:44:46 EST > Ooh, I must see it! CT in a speedo, ooh. What colour was it? I don't > care how bad it is, I'll fast forward it to the part with CT in a speedo > ::girly giggle:: I'm feeling the slightest bit sinister, I may rent it. >> I'm pretty sure it was blue, and it was only for a second... Amy :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Errors and Bloopers Date: 12 Feb 1998 12:15:32 -0800 Megan wrote: > Nah, it's only scary if you can remember every detail about every ep > of Clarissa Explains it All, and Salute Your Shorts. > > After years of hiding I admit it: I was a TV addicted kid, me too! i know all the episodes of rugrats, doug, alex mack, all that, roundhouse, pete and pete, and pretty much anything else that aired on nickelodeon between 1990 and 1995. that's probably the only reason i discovered the TP - it just happened to be on nickelodeon and thus called to my attention. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 17 Feb 1998 21:59:52 CST ykybwtmtpw You are consistently late to work/school/etc. and soon realize what you are forgetting to allow time for is the *travel* to your destination. Something inside you just isn't convinced you *need* travel time. It's just across town/campus, you *shouldn't* even need time to find your jaunting belt/band. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kerry Blackwell" Subject: Re: TPDIS: CT sighting (or did someone already say this?) Date: 18 Feb 1998 20:50:02 +1300 On 17/02/98, at 16:10, Hal Freeman wrote: >AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: > >> Okay, last night it was... 11 PM... and I happen across Cinemax and >> see >> Christian Tessier! YEAH! It turns out he stars in this movie, called >> >> "Natural Enemy," about a woman who has a baby and then sends it away >> to be >> adopted, except the kid gets abused and so gets all "Psycho." And so >> he >> reaches his real Mom... who's had another kid (Christian!!) named >> Chris >> (coincidence??), and acts all nice and all, and then tries to kill >> them all. >> > > Want another coincidence, I spent all of Monday trying to find a >synopsis of that movie and CT's character on the 'net. Well, if we're talking coincidences, Michael has just told me this movie is on New Zealand television _tonight_. (And if he posts this too, sorry for the duplicate.) Kerry -- kerry@needlecraft.co.nz The facts appear to be mutating every forty minutes, like bacteria. -- The Vor Game Lois McMaster Bujold ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: CT sighting (or did someone already say this?) Date: 18 Feb 1998 06:17:29 -0600 Kerry Blackwell wrote: > On 17/02/98, at 16:10, Hal Freeman wrote: > > >AmyH3x4@aol.com wrote: > > > >> Okay, last night it was... 11 PM... and I happen across Cinemax and > > >> see > >> Christian Tessier! YEAH! It turns out he stars in this movie, > called > >> > >> "Natural Enemy," about a woman who has a baby and then sends it > away > >> to be > >> adopted, except the kid gets abused and so gets all "Psycho." And > so > >> he > >> reaches his real Mom... who's had another kid (Christian!!) named > >> Chris > >> (coincidence??), and acts all nice and all, and then tries to kill > >> them all. > >> > > > > Want another coincidence, I spent all of Monday trying to find a > >synopsis of that movie and CT's character on the 'net. > > Well, if we're talking coincidences, Michael has just told me this > movie is > on New Zealand television _tonight_. (And if he posts this too, sorry > for > the duplicate.) > > Kerry > List telepathy? I seems like it to me, only three-fold. Coincidence, no, TELEPATHY! We're breaking out. Joy! Well, here's hoping Megan ****** "Oh Brad! Don't be so condescending!" "You mean condensing?" "You are a bit drippy." -Maggie and Brad G:T- Necessary Evils ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: Re: TPDIS: A great idea (I hope)! Date: 18 Feb 1998 07:44:59 -0600 (CST) *Switches out of lurk mode* That's a great idea.. But I suggest for it to be a , like MUSH or MUX. MUDs are pretty much Hack-and-Slash types of places. We could make our own TP or even be a Sap. That's a super nifty idea. Tim O'Neal On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 Latimer84@aol.com wrote: > Okay, I thought of something that's probably been thought of, but if it has > been, I've never heard it! Anyway, here it is: a Tomorrow People MUD! A MUD is > a multi-user dungeon, a role-playing game. Like "Dungeons & Dragons"! We could > have the lab, the ship, etc.! your weapons would be stun guns, spells would be > jaunting and stuff. Has this been done? if not, I'd be happy to work on one! > -Geoff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Taylor Subject: TPDIS: Old Series on Sci-Fi Europe Date: 18 Feb 1998 23:18:19 -0000 The Sci-Fi channel Europe are repeating the old series in March, = starting with 'The Slaves of Jedikiah' and 'The Medusa Strain' . They = appear to be showing them in two time slots 0100 and 1000 (UK times). = For details see: http://www.scifi.com/toc/ Under Europe/UK, click on 'ScheduleBot' On the next page scroll down to the search area search for 'Word:' 'Tomorrow', 'Month:' 'March' (The above will make more sense when you visit their site) The repeat of 'The Medusa Strain' starting on 24th March will be the = first time I've see that particular story repeated since I originally = saw it in 1973 (around April or May I think). We didn't have VCRs then! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Megan Delaney Subject: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 10:56:47 -0600 (CST) I have discovered the secret of TK. I can now telekinetically control any object. I can hold the object in front of me, let go of it, and with my mind control the motion of the object so that it travels to the ground at an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2 until it reaches a certain velocity, chosen by me, which I will call terminal velocity. Then, I can make the object continue at this velocity until it reaches the ground! Amazing! :) Maria ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Edmonds Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 09:07:46 +1300 (NZDT) On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Megan Delaney wrote: > I have discovered the secret of TK. > > I can now telekinetically control any object. I can hold the object in front > of me, let go of it, and with my mind control the motion of the object so that > it travels to the ground at an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2 until it reaches a > certain velocity, chosen by me, which I will call terminal velocity. Then, I > can make the object continue at this velocity until it reaches the ground! > > Amazing! > > :) > Maria > While initially sceptical, I tried this and it works! Moreover, if you try it with spherical rubber objects you can actually summon the object back towards you. Rubber obviously has psi-active properties. Also on further investigation if you try it with large objects with a hard outer layer and soft insides e.g. a watermelon, you can actually make it explode at the end of its trajectory. Science will never be the same again!! :) Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 15:49:37 -0600 Megan Delaney wrote: > I have discovered the secret of TK. > > I can now telekinetically control any object. I can hold the object > in front > of me, let go of it, and with my mind control the motion of the object > so that > it travels to the ground at an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2 until it > reaches a > certain velocity, chosen by me, which I will call terminal velocity. > Then, I > can make the object continue at this velocity until it reaches the > ground! It's not working Maria, I keep dropping the pen, but it always goes at the same speed. I don't how to see if it's 9.8m/s^2. Is this one of those scientific things like when you go up to people and say "your epidermis is showing?". I feel like an idiot. I'm trying to figure it out, Megan ******* Sometimes you feel like a nut, Sometimes you don't! -Almond Joy commercial ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 16:54:06 -0600 (CST) > I don't how to see if it's 9.8m/s^2. Is this one of >those scientific things like when you go up to people and say "your >epidermis is showing?". I feel like an idiot. It's not your fault you haven't had high school physics yet. 9.8 m/s^2 is the acceleration due to gravity. You'll have to excuse Maria, she had this misguided idea to maybe major in Physics last year, and it sort of went to her head. (All her firends knew she should be a math major, but she didn't figure it out 'til she got the card.) (Sorry 'bout that, I think she was playing the drinking game with one of my tp tapes and 'way to much Dr Pepper the other night. :) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Megan Delaney Subject: TPDIS: RE:telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 17:08:25 -0600 (CST) Tigger said: >It's not your fault you haven't had high school physics yet. 9.8 m/s^2 is the >acceleration due to gravity. It is not due to gravity! I'm doing it with my mind! :) Megan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: TPDIS: ykybwtmtpw... Date: 19 Feb 1998 10:21:03 -0800 ... you discover that you have more than one copy of The Medusa Strain on 8mm film and have no recollection of ever duplicating it. yet, both copies are labeled in your hand writing. you assume that you must have been under alien control when you duplicated it, and begin to wonder why aliens need copies of The Medusa Strain. (i guess we know what The Living Skins' favourite episode is!) --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: TPDIS: more TP bloopers Date: 19 Feb 1998 10:56:41 -0800 in the first chapter of Worlds Away, when the Federation cave is shown before the TP Jaunt it, the candles aren't lit. but, as soon as they appear, they are. are the TP unwittingly pyrokinectic? --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 10:31:38 -0800 Beth wrote: > You'll have to excuse Maria, she had this misguided idea to maybe major in > Physics last year, and it sort of went to her head. (All her firends knew she > should be a math major, but she didn't figure it out 'til she got the card.) > (Sorry 'bout that, I think she was playing the drinking game with one of my tp > tapes and 'way to much Dr Pepper the other night. :) there's a warning at the beginning of the Drinking Game about trying it with alcoholic beverages - i think it should apply to caffeinated and sugared beverages, as well. i've run into some trouble with that, myself! (so has Geoff, but not playing the Drinking Game. i seem to recall a phone conversation along the lines of "Megabyte! i fell in the sea! and then Lisa, she life saved me, and then she slapped me!" (= ) BTW, does anyone have my Worlds Away tape? i suddenly have two Medusa Strains and no Worlds Away. i think it Jaunted (it's happened before!)... --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 19:53:22 -0600 > It's not your fault you haven't had high school physics yet. 9.8 > m/s^2 is the > acceleration due to gravity. > You'll have to excuse Maria, she had this misguided idea to maybe > major in > Physics last year, and it sort of went to her head. (All her firends > knew she > should be a math major, but she didn't figure it out 'til she got the > card.) > (Sorry 'bout that, I think she was playing the drinking game with one > of my tp > tapes and 'way to much Dr Pepper the other night. :) No, only root beer has that effect. I know, I've tried. I may not know physics, but I'd make one heckuva bio-chemist. So lemme get this straight, you have to know calculus to be a TP, and you've got to know physics to be a fan! I need another hobby... Now I know I'm an idiot. I did try to move the carpet in my room. Carpet's still there, the rest of the room is gone, I moved it at 9.8m/s^2 using telekinesis. ;) Megan ***** There's lots of forces in a modern world That take their toll upon a modern girl -Cowboy Mouth "Jenny Says" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 20:55:00 EST In a message dated 2/19/98 8:53:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, arpitp@juno.com writes: > > there's a warning at the beginning of the Drinking Game about trying it > with alcoholic beverages - i think it should apply to caffeinated and > sugared beverages, as well. Def.! >i've run into some trouble with that, indeed! > myself! (so has Geoff, but not playing the Drinking Game. i seem to > recall a phone conversation along the lines of "Megabyte! i fell in the > sea! and then Lisa, she life saved me, and then she slapped me!" (= ) Oh, I 'member that! > BTW, does anyone have my Worlds Away tape? i suddenly have two Medusa > Strains and no Worlds Away. i think it Jaunted (it's happened > before!)... I'll check to see if I have two. But I think I may not have any! BTW, would someone be willing to copy some new series eps for me? I erally wanna see the pilot, and I only have "The Living Stones". Thanks! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana B) Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 14:13:23 -0800 Geoff wrote: > I'll check to see if I have two. But I think I may not have any! BTW, would > someone be willing to copy some new series eps for me? I erally wanna see the > pilot, and I only have "The Living Stones". Thanks! how'd you get a copy of The Living Stones? i haven't counted my LS tapes lately - did you take one? oh, and i'll copy for you, if you want :) --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 19 Feb 1998 23:55:31 -0600 (CST) Maria wrote: >It is not due to gravity! I'm doing it with my mind! Fine, prove it by fixing my ankle! Mgan Freeman wrote: >> I think she was playing the drinking game with one >> of my tp >> tapes and 'way to much Dr Pepper the other night. :) > No, only root beer has that effect. I know, I've tried. I may not know >physics, but I'd make one heckuva bio-chemist. Only if you learn everyone's got a different metabolism. Dr Pepper has that sort of effect on Maria, trust me. Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 16:32:14 EST Just a side not, today in math class my teacher decided we needed to learn next year's science! Anyway, we talked about the gravity thing. Now let's see if I can make it go other ways, too. =) -Geoff P.S.- Hey, it works! I can hold things in the air. (Note that I didn't say I could do it for very long.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Megan Delaney Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 15:51:39 -0600 (CST) Geoff said: >P.S.- Hey, it works! I can hold things in the air. (Note that I didn't say I >could do it for very long.) Yes, I've noticed that if I throw an object up into the air, I can telekinetically control it so that, for an instant in time, it is not moving (has zero velocity, otherwise known as speed). :) Maria ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 16:15:54 -0600 Beth Epstein wrote: > Maria wrote: > >It is not due to gravity! I'm doing it with my mind! > Fine, prove it by fixing my ankle! > > Mgan Freeman wrote: > >> I think she was playing the drinking game with one > >> of my tp > >> tapes and 'way to much Dr Pepper the other night. :) > > No, only root beer has that effect. I know, I've tried. I may not > know > >physics, but I'd make one heckuva bio-chemist. > Only if you learn everyone's got a different metabolism. Dr Pepper > has that > sort of effect on Maria, trust me. Yeah, but think what would happen if she had drinken root beer? You don't know root beer like I know root beer, probably. A coupla cans of that stuff and you're wired for the night. Dr. Pepper won't give you the rush that Root Beer will. I have compared. Dr. Pepper will do that (provided you've got the metabolism and amount to make the equation balance), but if you want a long lasting, strong sugar rush Root Beer is the way to go. You drink too much and you'll be bouncing off the walls of the Lab for a long while. BTW, Do you think that TP's metabolism would allow them to injest the same amount a sap does with less effect? Just wondering, with rootbeer in hand, wheee! Megan ***** Gravity, it's not just a good idea, it's the law! Ann Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amanda Ohlin Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 18:38:41 -0500 At 03:51 PM 2/20/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Yes, I've noticed that if I throw an object up into the air, I can >telekinetically control it so that, for an instant in time, it is >not moving (has zero velocity, otherwise known as speed). > Come to think of it, I managed to control 2 objects at once. I can throw an object straight out in front of me and drop another from the same height, and control it so that they both hit the ground at the same time! :) I don't know if I explained that correctly, but if my high school physics teacher saw this thread, he'd be laughing so hard..... -- Amanda Ohlin (aka Mandi) fanfic fanatic and nitpicker extraordinaire (self-proclaimed) nemesis of the Hood College foodservice staff "Look, Scully, another unsubstantiated UFO sighting in the heartland of America. We'd better get there right away." "Well, gee, Mulder, there's also this report of a shipment of drugs and illegal weapons coming into New Jersey tonight." "Scully, I hardly think the FBI is concerned with matters like that." --The Simpsons, "The Springfield Files" http://weirdweb.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 18:30:21 -0600 (CST) Megan F wrote: > Dr. Pepper will do that >(provided you've got the metabolism and amount to make the equation >balance), but if you want a long lasting, strong sugar rush Root Beer It's not the sugar, it's the caffine. >You drink too much and you'll be bouncing off the walls >of the Lab for a long while. For me, this wouold only happen with Barq's--both sugar and caffine, or 5 cookies and a can of A&W (my sugar tolerance is higher than my caffine tolerance). Or you can just hand me a TP book, simialr effect (but I get real quiet and bounce while reading:). > BTW, Do you think that TP's metabolism would allow them to injest the >same amount a sap does with less effect? Possibly, although the original series tp's tend to avoid so much, I doubt it. OK, let's put it this way: John can clearly hold his caffine, he drinks coffee, but I wouldn't let Andrew near a can of Barq's root beer if I were John..... Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trina L. Short" Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 20:05:31 -0500 Amanda Ohlin wrote: > :) I don't know if I explained that correctly, but if my high school > physics teacher saw this thread, he'd be laughing so hard..... Speaking as a High School Physics Teacher, I'm finding this whole thread rather interesting... ObTP: Having just seen Slaves of Jedikiah for the first time in nearly 15 years, I have one major observation to make. Carol annoys the stuffing out of me! Grief, she's such a wimp. Let's hear it for The Blue and the Green and the coming of Elizabeth. --=20 trinalin =A91998 ACME Page Fillers, Inc. http://home.earthlink.net/~trinalin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 20:48:32 -0500 (EST) > Amanda Ohlin wrote: > > ObTP: Having just seen Slaves of Jedikiah for the first time in nearly > 15 years, I have one major observation to make. Carol annoys the > stuffing out of me! Grief, she's such a wimp. Let's hear it for The > Blue and the Green and the coming of Elizabeth. Oh come on.... with lines like "we've got to save the saps, john... we've just got to" being spoken in the most shrill voice. I wouldn't call her a wimp.... annoying as heck... not a wimp though! ScottG ... Who thinks Liz is the best female character in TOS! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trina L. Short" Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 21:12:15 -0500 scott goldman wrote: >=20 > > Amanda Ohlin wrote: Actually, I said this, not Amanda. Don't want her to get a bad rep. :) > > Carol annoys the stuffing out of me! > Oh come on.... with lines like "we've got to save the saps, john... > we've just got to" being spoken in the most shrill voice. Actually, I was thinking along the lines of "Oh, don't do that. People will find out and then they'll cut you up and analyse you and all that gaff" kind of stuff that she's always whinging about. Surely they can use their powers and NOT be noticed and NOT get captured by evil beasties. But she won't hear of it. :) > I wouldn't call her a wimp.... annoying as heck... not a wimp though! Ah well, just my preference of calling. :) > ScottG ... Who thinks Liz is the best female character in TOS! I'll go one further and say she's best best TP character, but that's cuz I'm a gibbering Liz fan. Well, that and cuz she's the best TP character... ;) --=20 trinalin =A91998 ACME Page Fillers, Inc. http://home.earthlink.net/~trinalin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 20 Feb 1998 22:18:10 EST In a message dated 2/20/98 7:31:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, EPSTEINB@carleton.edu writes: > Possibly, although the original series tp's tend to avoid so much, I doubt it. > > OK, let's put it this way: John can clearly hold his caffine, he drinks > coffee, > but I wouldn't let Andrew near a can of Barq's root beer if I were John..... Imagine Mike or Stephen or Tsui T. with Jolt cola! -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shaun Hately" Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 21 Feb 1998 22:36:24 +1100 > Trina wrote: > > ObTP: Having just seen Slaves of Jedikiah for the first time in nearly > 15 years, I have one major observation to make. Carol annoys the > stuffing out of me! Grief, she's such a wimp. Let's hear it for The > Blue and the Green and the coming of Elizabeth. Carol? A wimp? Not in my opinion - Slaves of Jedikiah doesn't show her at her best. The Medusa Strain is much better in that regard. Screaming at Peter not to help Jedikiah and Rabowski even if it costs her life. Carol is obviously afraid of what may happen to the TP but she does have a point - they are in danger and Kenny jaunting in front of a Policeman is a bit stupid (I'm now cracking up imagining what her reaction to Stephen jaunting in front of Professor Cawston in A Rift In Time would have been.) I liked Carol - not as much as I liked Liz, but I don't think it's fair to call her a wimp. Yours Without Wax, |'Don't knock mutant freaks. That's how Dreadnought |evolution works. Something new appears / |that might turn out to be just what the o=== ======================- |species needs.' \ |- Stephanie Tolan 'Welcome to the Ark' drednort@eisa.net.au | http://www.eisa.net.au/~drednort/thelab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84@aol.com Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 21 Feb 1998 09:51:46 EST In a message dated 2/21/98 7:19:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, drednort@eisa.net.au writes: > Carol is obviously afraid of what may happen to the TP but she does have a > point - they are in danger and Kenny jaunting in front of a Policeman is a > bit stupid (I'm now cracking up imagining what her reaction to Stephen > jaunting in front of Professor Cawston in A Rift In Time would have been.) Mental picture here! I see Carol screaming with frizzled hair: Aaaaaaah! Aaaaaaaah! Aaaaaaaaaah! Non-stop! ::cackle:: -Geoff (who just took Excedrin Migraine (works really well!) which is loaded with caffeine, so he's a little NUTS!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 21 Feb 1998 15:56:48 CST >ObTP: Having just seen Slaves of Jedikiah for the first time in nearly >15 years, (I haven't seen any original TP in just as long. :( So I may be remembering things all out of whack.) >I have one major observation to make. Carol annoys the >stuffing out of me! Grief, she's such a wimp. Actually, when reading the web pages and getting back into all this - I started thinking about Carol in connection with the Power of Belief on Shaun's page. With her statement (to Stephen?) that they can't kill - *"Well, not deliberately"* - and later (in the Medusa Strain?) when she convinces Peter to help her "subdue" the creature! I can see it now! John: "Carol, What happened!" Carol: "Gee, John, I don't know. I was just trying to subdue these bad guys and - oops!" Just a thought. Kristy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 21 Feb 1998 17:09:53 -0600 (CST) Kristy wrote: > John: "Carol, What happened!" > Carol: "Gee, John, I don't know. I was just trying to subdue > these bad guys and - oops!" Only problem is later in the episode when Robofsky is accidently sent to somewhere really hot with a robot, (read: accidentally killed) she and Peter are pretty upset about it. I think this dialogue isn't really that effective. Unless it was something like mosquitos she was trying to subdue. :) (Slap to k.o. and slap to splat aren't that different, after all.:) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: telekinesis Date: 21 Feb 1998 19:45:36 CST >Only problem is later in the episode when Robofsky is accidently sent to >somewhere really hot with a robot, (read: accidentally killed) she and Peter >are pretty upset about it. >Tigger Oh well, It's been a very long time. I just got tickled when I put the 'not deliberately' line and the 'just subdue it' line together in my memory. It seemed to me talking people into things was something ambassadors should be good at anyway. Why not talk herself into something much less wimpy than that whinny voice makes her seem capable of? Kristy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy O'Neal" Subject: TPDIS:Chat Date: 21 Feb 1998 20:11:17 -0600 (CST) I'm on, if anyone is interested.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bookwyrm@sprynet.com Subject: TPDIS: YKYBWTMTPW... Date: 21 Feb 1998 20:51:23 -0800 (PST) You Know Everyone On the List Has Watched Too Much TP When ... The compiled list of YKYB's posted over the last six months comes out to over 60 pages worth of observations. ... Wendy bookwyrm@sprynet.com * http://www.xmission.com/~ladyslvr/ Listowner Tomorrow People Creative and Discussion Lists Asst. Listowner Sliders Creative & Discussion Lists at esosoft ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Amanda Ohlin Subject: TPDIS: ykybwtmtpw... Date: 22 Feb 1998 18:34:36 -0500 ....you've been rolling around trying to sleep for two hours while the people in your residence hall are running down the hall at 2 am screaming about a oujia board, and the only thing that keeps you from homicide is the mantra: "I might break out, I might break out, I might break out...." ...you watch _Labyrinth_ with some David Bowie fans you know, and keep thinking how much shorter the movie would be if Sarah broke out. -- Amanda Ohlin (aka Mandi) fanfic fanatic and nitpicker extraordinaire nemesis of the Hood College foodservice staff "You see, there's the difference between our roles. You all are unwilling to embarrass yourselves while I make a career out of it!" --Dr. Roger Reitman http://weirdweb.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "McElrath, Jamon" Subject: RE: TPDIS: Carol (formerly telekinesis) Date: 23 Feb 1998 11:09:23 -0600 > ObTP: Having just seen Slaves of Jedikiah for the first time in nearly > 15 years, I have one major observation to make. Carol annoys the > stuffing out of me! Grief, she's such a wimp. Let's hear it for The > Blue and the Green and the coming of Elizabeth. > Please note that the whole "I love Carol; I think everyone is too hard on her; the show lost some of its sensitivity when she left" discussion has already been threaded. Let's not open up sore wounds again! If so, I might just have to whip out the ol' "Oh yeah!? Well, Mike annoys the stuffing out of me; John should have taken a firmer hand with him" thread, and we all know what will happen then! :) Jamon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Carol (formerly telekinesis) Date: 23 Feb 1998 14:26:34 -0600 (CST) Jamon wrote: >Let's not open up sore wounds again! If so, I might >just have to whip out the ol' "Oh yeah!? Well, Mike annoys the stuffing out >of me; John should have taken a firmer hand with him" thread *sigh* Can't we all just get along? Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Carol (formerly telekinesis) Date: 23 Feb 1998 14:26:34 -0600 (CST) Jamon wrote: >Let's not open up sore wounds again! If so, I might >just have to whip out the ol' "Oh yeah!? Well, Mike annoys the stuffing out >of me; John should have taken a firmer hand with him" thread *sigh* Can't we all just get along? Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SapphireSky Subject: Re: TPDIS: Carol (formerly telekinesis) Date: 23 Feb 1998 20:37:15 -0400 > > ObTP: Having just seen Slaves of Jedikiah for the first time in nearly > > 15 years, I have one major observation to make. Carol annoys the > > stuffing out of me! Grief, she's such a wimp. Let's hear it for The > > Blue and the Green and the coming of Elizabeth. Oh, Carol's not so bad! I've only seen Parts 1 and 2 of "The Slaves of Jedikiah", but she hasn't done much to annoy me. She tries her best to defend Stephen in the hospital, she absolutely correct that Kenny shouldn't be teleporting in front of police officers...not the best character, but I certainly wouldn't call her annoying or wimpy. But everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Rachel with an E :) (who loves being able to discuss the old series now!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rachael Bailey" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Carol (formerly telekinesis) Date: 23 Feb 1998 16:37:38 PST Hate to disagree with the world, yet again, but Carol is the most annoying tp ever. Her voice reminds me of one of those kindergarten teachers, that still talk down to you when you are an adult. "Yes dear" etc........ She drives me crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank god for Elizabeth. Rachael with an A ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: RE: TPDIS: Carol (formerly telekinesis) Date: 23 Feb 1998 13:52:13 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, McElrath, Jamon wrote: > already been threaded. Let's not open up sore wounds again! If so, I might > just have to whip out the ol' "Oh yeah!? Well, Mike annoys the stuffing out > of me; John should have taken a firmer hand with him" thread, and we all > know what will happen then! :) > > Jamon > > What would happen??? We'd all say ya "your right so what":)) (just kidding) besides, my mother said "2 wrongs don't make a right, but two wrights make an airplane!" ... sick woman she was... scottg 'If you haven't noticed, he's not firing on all thrusters!' - Mcoy to kirk about spock in st4tvh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: RE: TPDIS: Carol (formerly telekinesis) Date: 23 Feb 1998 13:52:13 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, McElrath, Jamon wrote: > already been threaded. Let's not open up sore wounds again! If so, I might > just have to whip out the ol' "Oh yeah!? Well, Mike annoys the stuffing out > of me; John should have taken a firmer hand with him" thread, and we all > know what will happen then! :) > > Jamon > > What would happen??? We'd all say ya "your right so what":)) (just kidding) besides, my mother said "2 wrongs don't make a right, but two wrights make an airplane!" ... sick woman she was... scottg 'If you haven't noticed, he's not firing on all thrusters!' - Mcoy to kirk about spock in st4tvh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Gillikin" Subject: TPDIS: AM Sighting--Update Date: 24 Feb 1998 07:04:08 PST This is for the benefit of our US based listees here. A few months ago, I posted about a BBC/WGBH co-production called "The Ice House", which featured Alexandra Milman, and asked if anyone knew when it would make it to PBS, as all WGBH co-productions eventually do. Well, TV Guide for this week lists part one of "The Ice House" as airing on Mystery! Thursday night (February 26), at 9 PM eastern. Donald and Kasey, please do not let me forget this!!! :) Be seeing you, Darryl "I was dreaming. We were in Paris. You had a branding iron, and there were worms in my baguette..." Drusilla, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer: What's My Line? (part two)" "It's people like that that make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for instance, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years." Tom Lehrer, "That Was the Year that Was." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: TPDIS: ykybwtmtpw... Date: 22 Feb 1998 15:12:34 -0800 ... someone is using "your" computer in the library, and since you're really pissed off, you concentrate on willing their computer to shut down. like five seconds later, the power in the entire library shut down unexplainably for a few minutes and you begin celebrating that you're breaking out. --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: TPDIS: Secret Weapon Date: 23 Feb 1998 04:01:44 -0800 this article tripped one of my sensor words (i have a program that scans through news articles and sends me ones that have my buzz words) and got sent to me. it eerily reminded me of The Secret Weapon. << United States Government Used Psychic Spies Former Project Director Tells of Top Secrets in New Book BOSTON, Feb. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Everyone possesses the potential to tap into powerful psychic resources such as ESP, remote viewing, precognitive dreaming and synchronicity. Who believes this so strongly that they spent millions of dollars to prove it? The UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, THAT'S WHO! For nearly 20 years, the United States government employed a team of remote viewers, or psychic seers, to investigate potential threats to the safety of the nation. This program was termed PROJECT STARGATE by its former director and the government's leading expert on parasychological phenomena (or "psi" as it is commonly called). In his new book Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness (Element Books, $19.95, Distributed by Penguin Putnam) Dale Graff explains how the STARGATE investigators used ESP, Remote Viewing, Precognitive Dreaming and Synchronicity to find American hostages, locate missile targets and expose large drug shipments and fugitives. Tracks in the Psychic Wilderness is one man's first person account of this fascinating secret government project. According to Graff, STARGATE had its origins during the height of the Cold War. "Any sensing or detecting technique that could help avoid surprise was explored. Early research data indicated that remote viewing had potential for solving difficult tasks, such as locating missing people or describing activities occurring in remote areas." Examples of successful remote viewing projects included descriptions of a Russian nuclear test site and the location of a missing soviet airplane. Later in the project, with the Cold War winding down, the focus shifted to locating large drug shipments. According to Graff, "STARGATE data helped fill in the piece of the puzzle and demonstrated potential uses for several important location projects. One of these was the search for General James Dozier, the NATO official who had been abducted by Italian terrorists." Since STARGATE was declassified in 1995 by the CIA and was made public by ABC's Nightline, Dale Graff continues to defend parapsychological phenomenon from its many critics. "There is no clear answer to why psi generates controversy. It may be that as the practical value of psi, along with its limitation become general knowledge, then a lessening of the controversy will occur." SOURCE: Element Books CO: Element Books ST: Massachusetts IN: SU: 02/26/98 05:21 EST http://www.prnewswire.com >> are the people who the government has talked into cooperated like Tricia? and if so, then there must be TP out there somewhere... --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Epstein Subject: Re: TPDIS: Secret Weapon Date: 26 Feb 1998 09:47:44 -0600 (CST) Arpi worte: >are the people who the government has talked into cooperated like Tricia? > and if so, then there must be TP out there somewhere... Maybe, maybe not, but Arpi, you have no idea how much you just helped me.... Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Secret Weapon Date: 23 Feb 1998 04:43:31 -0800 Beth wrote: > Maybe, maybe not, but Arpi, you have no idea how much you just helped me.... well, i'm glad i could help, but what exactly did i do? --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84 Subject: Re: TPDIS: Secret Weapon Date: 26 Feb 1998 20:03:09 EST In a message dated 2/26/98 9:57:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, arpitp@juno.com writes: > and if so, then there must be TP out there somewhere... What are you talking about? We're right here! ::heres windows breaking:: Jaunt, Ariana, J-- (big explosion sound effect)! -Geoff, who's still doing his math homework and it's kidna making him loopy... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Taylor Subject: RE: TPDIS: Secret Weapon Date: 27 Feb 1998 23:36:08 -0000 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD43D8.7D95AD00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <<< Ariana Brill: this article tripped one of my sensor words (i have a program that scans through news articles and sends me ones that have my buzz words) and got sent to me. it eerily reminded me of The Secret Weapon. << United States Government Used Psychic Spies Former Project Director Tells of Top Secrets in New Book [...] 02/26/98 05:21 EST http://www.prnewswire.com >> are the people who the government has talked into cooperated like = Tricia? and if so, then there must be TP out there somewhere... >>> There was a TV documentary on this in the UK recently. The documentary = mostly described 'remote-viewing' which is the ability to receive = information about a place without being there. I don't remember = remote-viewing as a TP ability although they would find it useful (look = before you jaunt!). From what I remember from the documentary anyone can = be trained to do this. Essentially the subject is given a map coordinate = and then describes the impressions that he/she receives in a structured = way - something like: stage 1 - general impressions, colours, hot/cold = etc; stage 2 feelings - calm/anxious; etc ... . The documentary did not = give the exact details. The only thing that might be considered a = 'real-world' TP ability is that the map coordinates are optional - = apparently the subject can read the mind of the investigator to = determine where to look! ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD43D8.7D95AD00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0XAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYANAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAMAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAATwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHRwZGlzQGxpc3RzLnht aXNzaW9uLmNvbQBTTVRQAHRwZGlzQGxpc3RzLnhtaXNzaW9uLmNvbQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABkAAAB0cGRpc0BsaXN0cy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20AAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4P BgAAAB4AATABAAAAGwAAACd0cGRpc0BsaXN0cy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20nAAACAQswAQAAAB4AAABT TVRQOlRQRElTQExJU1RTLlhNSVNTSU9OLkNPTQAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQA AAAAAAADpT0BBIABABkAAABSRTogVFBESVM6IFNlY3JldCBXZWFwb24AvwcBBYADAA4AAADOBwIA GwAXACQACAAFADoBASCAAwAOAAAAzgcCABsAFwAkAAgABQA6AQEJgAEAIQAAADE0OENGNEM1QjNB RkQxMTFCOEE1NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAPcGAQOQBgBwBgAAFAAAAAsAIwABAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkA AAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwCp5ethDvQEeAHAAAQAAABkAAABSRTogVFBESVM6IFNl Y3JldCBXZWFwb24AAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb1D2HpxxfSMF6+zEdG4pURFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEA AAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABwanQuMUBjYWJsZW9sLmNvLnVrAAMABhCSiIv4AwAH EFAEAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAAA8PDxBUklBTkFCUklMTDpUSElTQVJUSUNMRVRSSVBQRURPTkVPRk1Z U0VOU09SV09SRFMoSUhBVkVBUFJPR1JBTVRIQVRTQ0FOU1RIUk9VR0hORVdTQVJUSUNMRVNBTkRT RU5EAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA4QQAAN0EAADWBwAATFpGdZHL9nb/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIA Y2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCg8YzA8UCAHBycRIgE4iGNBQ8BrBzdGVtAoP6NRMNfQqACM8J 2QKACoGTDbELYG5nAdA1Nwr78xQiAdAgPByACuEbugqgGwNgFtBjBUAHEm5hINpCBRBsGRAbrDoK jwuRUxdSHYl0aAQAIArAdLBpY2xlIhAFEXAJgAYgAiAi0G9mIG15riAR8ACABbF3BbBkBCDoKGkg EcB2ItAegB2x6QnAYW0iEWEFQATwAHGHH/UiIANgdWdoICOA9nciVyJRbiNQJBEksQeAHyNiBCAm AyUTI+FidXrqeiR0KShjZx3QH/UkEYUiAW8pAS4gIGkFQO8J4B6xI/AZMG0LgA2wI1DzKRIjwFRo ItAGYAUAEgCgIFdlYXACIC4f9XMf9RyRIFUDABbQI1BT5wGQFtAEIEdvJTAEoAeAjSwhVRHwI1BQ c3kRsLsioAYAcAiQJpYf9UYFsCsHgAXAUANgah3yRGnnGTAeAAWxVGUe0AQgLjI8b3AulQQgC4AH s0JvPG9rH/cg2i/mG51bLh06gF0vjCC/HdQwMi8gMjYvOTg9ADU6wDIxIEVTVCUAAkCgcDovL3c+ sC4UwDcnkgPwGTAuBaAl4D4+/zs/OM87/yJhItEucSMwNlD5IsF3aCxgQ4IrYDGnEcD7KXEHQGsj QQuALFEFoDZQ5wSQMTEjUGxpRdAuUAUQemMHMD8f9ShjBpAkAG+eLENyA6BDgUNRbXUWwOsqUEdB UCNgdSICSXIkQP8HgEQwSXE6gTkfQR8dHz/Rvz//HVwf/xvoLmFDUXdFcQEegFRWIGRvY3V/MeIK wCPwAiAiFDcBQ4JV+kstYWMsES1ALKAuYlO6fwRgFsAtQQ2wBPJKACNQJ3MtcR3RLXYIkAPwGuAn /0QhIqAncCJBQ4IBoAMQLND3I/AsUVWSaSUxC4ACEDRQ/SYgaVRxAaBKYiVhC2BVsP8kcCzQREBK cUoAWQFJRCyg8klToW4nBUAtcRbgSgD/BcBYXCJgU0NKQFomB0BdEk8nYUOBI/AkgHVsI1Bm/y2h LMJJwA3AYkAk0BjAN5AXSfFbcSLQeQhgIGph0nUCMCEpLKBGA2FEIf8mIV5AXscDUkNzU7oAcGRA /yOBJmFJ8iLwC3EjQSxRU7D7IhMsoEUEECwRBzEtQUOC2HN1YjTTIkFnWxFb8f8j0C8wRlILIAuA MTEoY0kD/1emWcQHcBTAB5AAkAIgKXb4ZS9zLnFa1TbjHoAWwHxydR4ACHAjQVMgI/AtL0rzIiFd oUcSOnCxYWf/ItA94HGwcwAjgCXAAyBuaZ9I4BiiCHB0kURAdC8YobMjUBIAYztyxRIgZgngH0cQ GuAEIHGwJmBsbS+9AHB4W9BJwHYQdeEgOoHveHBWL2yAI1BuHdBrc0Nz/GV4ANAFQA2wAZADEGmh /y5iAiBqY12UJiEtkCdgSeN/BaAAgQSBI0EegFhBB0At/ySBYlBZMGCZWbMmIUOCbAz/IlIjkQUw W9FzwXGwLzBRQf9Vw2qLaCJ+kW0TfREogSOx7W4jbnAxIpBnJiAFsWkSfxIABJAtkUQSSXIsUWOC IVcLRhLyUG8gGFEAilAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMICTlxzWQ70BQAAIMMAqeXrYQ70B HgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAL3z ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD43D8.7D95AD00-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Latimer84 Subject: Re: TPDIS: Secret Weapon Date: 27 Feb 1998 19:02:28 EST In a message dated 2/27/98 6:36:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, pjt.1@cableol.co.uk writes: > apparently the subject can read the mind of the investigator to determine > where to look! It always seemed to me like the Tps did that. LIke when Kevin got stung by a "killer mosquey!" ;-), Adam teleported right to where they were. Unless you mean OS... -Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Secret Weapon Date: 23 Feb 1998 15:27:23 -0800 > There was a TV documentary on this in the UK recently. The documentary = > mostly described 'remote-viewing' which is the ability to receive = > information about a place without being there. I don't remember = > remote-viewing as a TP ability although they would find it useful (look = > before you jaunt!). From what I remember from the documentary anyone can = > be trained to do this. Essentially the subject is given a map coordinate = > and then describes the impressions that he/she receives in a structured = > way - something like: stage 1 - general impressions, colours, hot/cold = > etc; stage 2 feelings - calm/anxious; etc ... . The documentary did not = > give the exact details. The only thing that might be considered a = > 'real-world' TP ability is that the map coordinates are optional - = > apparently the subject can read the mind of the investigator to = > determine where to look! in Worlds Away, it was said that Vesh (sp?) could leave their bodies. Tyso was the only one shown to have this ability, but a lot of them never really tried, either :) --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Temesha Chatman Subject: TPDIS: CT sighting Date: 28 Feb 1998 09:31:09 -0500 This morning FOX aired the Goosebumps episode "Say Cheese and Die 2." Christian Tessier had a brief appearance reprising his role from the original episode. Temesha Lynn Chatman Cambridge Technology Partners East Brunswick, NJ tchatm@ctp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hal Freeman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Remote Viewing Date: 28 Feb 1998 19:35:33 -0600 Tracey D wrote: > I remember an edition of 'Strange But True' on tv here last year. Its > a > prog that reconstructs paranormal events etc. This edition concerned > people who were remote viewers for the US government at the time of > the > Gulf War. The main remote viewer of the story was played by - wait > for > it - Jeff Harding :) > > Tracey D The little coincidences of life, ah, if I had a nickel for everytime that something like this happened...it still wouldn't do me any good. You can't buy your way into breaking out. Maybe, just maybe, the Tomorrow People we're really as fictional as we think. And maybe, just maybe there's something like that out in the world. And maybe, just maybe, humanity isn't as lost as it thinks it is. Wouldn't it be nice if they were real, even for a moment? Megan ****** I always read about super heros and grand fantastic adventures when I was a child, because I was an outcast, and I was the underdog. When I read those comics and those books I felt bigger and better than what I was. And for a fleeting moment, all was right in the world for a small, shy little child. -Perseid Colinn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arpitp@juno.com (Ariana Brill) Subject: TPDIS: Kristin Ariza sighting! Date: 25 Feb 1998 13:52:41 -0800 okay, i may be wrong, but i've watched this commercial like 10 times now and i'm pretty sure it's her. it's one of the US airforce commercials - i'm trying to figure out how to explain which one i'm talking about because there's like thirty of them. it (like many of the airforce commercials) has a bunch of different people saying things like "i'm doing this for my teacher, who never let me settle for a C" or "for my parents who believed in me" the person who i think is Kristin Ariza says "i can believe in me". at the end of the commerical it says "aim high - air force" on the bottom of the screen. has anyone else caught this? --Ariana "If I was telepathic, if I could teleport, it would be the dream of my life come true!" --Megabyte Damon, The Tomorrow People _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]