From: "David Yates" Subject: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 01 Jul 1998 22:44:01 +0100 Hi Guys, By way of getting some discussion going again... I was watching "A Man For Emily" on The Sci Fi Channel (Europe) this week. I *really* don't remember this one from the seventies. Maybe I missed it at the time, or maybe, to preserve my sanity, amnesia kicked in!!! Anyway, I've enjoyed it for laughs... HOWEVER! It *CAN'T be taken seriously as canonical...can it????? "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Steinberg Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 01 Jul 1998 14:46:28 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, David Yates wrote: > Hi Guys, > By way of getting some discussion going again... I was > watching "A Man For Emily" on The Sci Fi Channel (Europe) this week. I > *really* don't remember this one from the seventies. Maybe I missed it > at the time, or maybe, to preserve my sanity, amnesia kicked in!!! > Anyway, I've enjoyed it for laughs... HOWEVER! It *CAN'T be taken > seriously as canonical...can it????? *I* don't accept it ;) -David "ZZYZX" Steinberg www.ihoz.com "very strange raving egomaniac" *************************************************************************** *"the half muppet theory is beyond *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a* * the confines of logic, so don't go * film major, when all I really * * trying to rationalize it on me. it's* wanted in this life was to marry a* * all about zen. zen and muppets. just* lobsterman and cook fish." * * be man"- J. Elizabeth Smith * -a letter from Christie Searing * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TPTigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 01 Jul 1998 18:04:23 -0500 (CDT) David Yates wrote: > HOWEVER! It *CAN'T be taken >seriously as canonical...can it????? Then David Steinberg wrote: >*I* don't accept it ;) And what long term stuff in it do we actually need to worry about? It's not like they went off and married John to Emily or anything. Since there's no serious damage to the show from it (other than to the fans, adn even that isn't permanant), I see no reason to write it off as non-cannonical. There's no lasting continuty to worry about, so the only reason it wouldn't be is if a fanfic writer chose to ignore it. I see no reason to purposefully pretend it doesn't exist (again, I can't see it conflicting with anything) other than to shorten the time between Secret Weapon adn Revenge of Jedikiah. Sorry, but I just don't think we need to go adn do things like writing off whole episodes without them doign something drastic like... I don't know, killing off Liz or something. Which didn't happen. If you guys want to ignore it, feel free. It's not seriously going to change much (just remember that any part zero saying "this takes place between "A Man For Emily" and "Revenge of Jedikiah" means between "Worlds Away" adn RoJ.:) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Newman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 00:09:53 +0100 David Steinberg wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, David Yates wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > By way of getting some discussion going again... I was > > watching "A Man For Emily" on The Sci Fi Channel (Europe) this week. I > > *really* don't remember this one from the seventies. Maybe I missed it > > at the time, or maybe, to preserve my sanity, amnesia kicked in!!! > > Anyway, I've enjoyed it for laughs... HOWEVER! It *CAN'T be taken > > seriously as canonical...can it????? > > *I* don't accept it ;) > > -David "ZZYZX" Steinberg www.ihoz.com "very strange raving egomaniac" I commented on this story some months ago when I first saw it. I think it works well on a number of levels. It demonstrates the differences between cultures. What may seem comical to one may be deadly serious to another.It also is very good up-beat pantomime. I actually liked the part where Liz paths to John and speaks to the camera at the same time. That draws you into the story. Jack -- "May your senses be enlightened and your dreams be fulfilled." Traditional Manyarnern Greeting ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Steinberg Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 01 Jul 1998 17:13:17 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, TPTigger wrote: > Sorry, but I just don't think we need to go adn do things like writing off > whole episodes without them doign something drastic like... I don't know, > killing off Liz or something. Which didn't happen. Well I *was* kidding you know :-) -David "ZZYZX" Steinberg www.ihoz.com "very strange raving egomaniac" *************************************************************************** *"the half muppet theory is beyond *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a* * the confines of logic, so don't go * film major, when all I really * * trying to rationalize it on me. it's* wanted in this life was to marry a* * all about zen. zen and muppets. just* lobsterman and cook fish." * * be man"- J. Elizabeth Smith * -a letter from Christie Searing * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 01 Jul 1998 20:51:04 EDT In a message dated 98-07-01 19:05:22 EDT, you write: > Since there's no > serious damage to the show from it oh really? ;P >(other than to the fans, adn even that > isn't > permanant) oh *really*? >;P -Geoff Oh yeah, I'm baaaaaaack! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 14:27:13 +0100 I was kidding too. I know we *can't* dismiss a whole story as non-canonical when it obviously is. HOWEVER It clearly isn't a high point in the third series. Though I must admit it *is* funny!! Its good to see Nick Young showing the lighter side of John. And I *especially* like the bit where TIM gets that message from the Prime Minister and all we see is Stephen gradually sinking lower and lower into the chair! (I've had that "sinking feeling" myself from time to time when I was Stephen's age!) LOL. As a piece of entertainment it works very well, as a piece of serious drama????? "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. >Well I *was* kidding you know :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TPTigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 13:56:39 -0500 (CDT) David S wrote: >Well I *was* kidding you know :-) and DAvid Y added: >I was kidding too. OK, I admit it, sometimes I just can't tell. (Heck, I have trouble in real life when I have things like body language to clue me in. Sometimes text is darn near impossible.) David Y. continued: > As a piece of entertainment it >works very well, as a piece of serious drama????? I wasn't implying that it was. It's amusing,b ut that's about all. I just think it's silly to argue against it being cannonical. (Now there's parts of the books.... but I don't want to go there as I'm likely to have to fight that out for other purposes.) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Steinberg Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 12:01:03 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, TPTigger wrote: > > OK, I admit it, sometimes I just can't tell. (Heck, I have trouble in > real life when I have things like body language to clue me in. Sometimes text > is darn near impossible.) That's why I included the ;) face :-) Oh while we're doing this, can we eliminate bubbleskin jumpsuits? :) -David "ZZYZX" Steinberg www.ihoz.com "very strange raving egomaniac" *************************************************************************** *"the half muppet theory is beyond *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a* * the confines of logic, so don't go * film major, when all I really * * trying to rationalize it on me. it's* wanted in this life was to marry a* * all about zen. zen and muppets. just* lobsterman and cook fish." * * be man"- J. Elizabeth Smith * -a letter from Christie Searing * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: TPDIS: Re: TPDIS A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 21:10:10 +0100 "David Yates" wrote: > I was kidding too. I know we *can't* dismiss a whole story as > non-canonical when it obviously is. HOWEVER It clearly isn't a high > point in the third series. Though I must admit it *is* funny!! A Man For Emily has gone through a bit of a reappraisal in recent years, and is no longer held in quite such general deep contempt, although of course there still remain people who strongly dislike it. Certainly it is a contrast with the rest of series 3, deliberately so, and in many ways has more in common with other Roger Price programmes than the 'harder' end of the Tomorrow People stories. However, it does demonstrate the versatility of the format, and buried away are some ideas that do bear thinking about. Incidentally, The Tomorrow People does get a small picture on the new Pearson Television Archive Sales website. Can't remember the exact URL, but it can be found from the main Pearson site at http://www.pearsontv.com - and does show that it must be fairly freely available for TV stations to purchase. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 16:35:05 EDT In a message dated 98-07-02 15:01:33 EDT, you write: > Oh while we're doing this, can we eliminate bubbleskin jumpsuits? :) That ":)" BETTER mean your kidding! NO one talks about my company and lives to tell the tal--- I mean... -Geoff, who's listened to "Moon Revenge", "Route Venus", and "Setsunakuteii" waaay too many times! ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Yates" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: TPDIS A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 23:08:54 +0100 WHERE??? I've been to the main Pearson Site and can't find any appropriate link. Any clues??? "Live long and prosper!" DAVID. >Incidentally, The Tomorrow People does get a small picture on the new >Pearson Television Archive Sales website. Can't remember the exact >URL, but it can be found from the main Pearson site at >http://www.pearsontv.com - and does show that it must be fairly >freely available for TV stations to purchase. > >Jez >-- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tzm" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: A Man For Emily Date: 02 Jul 1998 22:51:37 -0400 I have to agree with your second paragraph. That scene with Stephen was one of my favorite too in that story. I personally enjoyed it, but probably for its stupidity. Tracey ---------- > > And I *especially* like the bit where TIM gets that message from the > Prime Minister and all we see is Stephen gradually sinking lower and > lower into the chair! (I've had that "sinking feeling" myself from time > to time when I was Stephen's age!) LOL. As a piece of entertainment it > works very well, as a piece of serious drama????? > "Live long and prosper!" > DAVID. > > >Well I *was* kidding you know :-) > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Rogers Subject: Re: TPDIS: Re: TPDIS A Man For Emily Date: 03 Jul 1998 07:22:17 +0100 "David Yates" wrote: > WHERE??? I've been to the main Pearson Site and can't find any > appropriate link. Any clues??? http://www.pearsontvarchive.com, in the 'About' section. Don't get too excited though, as it is only a thumbnail, much smaller than the picture from Wind in the Willows and Dangermouse. Jez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Taylor Subject: TPDIS: TP Evolution Date: 08 Jul 1998 12:58:37 +0100 A possible explanation of how the TP 'gene' originally evolved - series canon implies it just 'appeared' suddenly but it would have needed time to evolve especially since there are multiple characteristics - 3 main 'special powers' plus the inability to kill. Tigger - I did computer science at university not genetics - please be gentle with any silly mistakes :-). Telepathy --------- About 200 000 to 50 000? years ago: enough time for natural selection to take effect, not enough time for speciation(sp.). A developmental mutation occurs that produces brain cells that emit an altered neuro-transmitter that can switch between two forms with very small energy input. This neuro-transmitter can resonate with a different 'normal' neuro-transmitter when present in nearby brains causing it to change forms. Receptors for both forms already exist. The result is that, when the individual is in a suitable 'mood' (not angry) they can sense 'fight' emotion in predators (or humans in predatory mood) nearby. This would reinforce non-aggression since they escape predators when they are not angry. Also they would tend to avoid aggressive humans so are more likely to mate with others with same gene. Gene becomes selected for, aggression selected against, population becomes 'isolated' socially. More mutations occur resulting in small variations in the 'two-state' neuro-transmitter (TSNT for short) that 'resonate' with different neuro-transmitters. Children might inherit different TSNT-producing genes from each parent - can sense two 'moods' in nearby people/animals. Also sensitivity would tend to increase (probably learned rather than inherited?). Range increases, amount of information increases and simple telepathy between closely-related individuals becomes possible using 4 messages - come, go, flee, wait?. Side-effect - because the original TSNT required a non-aggressive mood, aggressive moods(or rather associated neuro-transmitters) tend to switch off TSNT production. Crossover(?) mutations: An interaction is established between an antibody-generating gene and a TSNT gene - an individual has millions of slightly differing TSNTs. This causes the amount of information increase hugely - simple telepathy is now possible with all humans with two TSNTs, full telepathy possible (when learned) between closely-related individuals. Recognized as 'similar' by more '2-TSNT' humans which results in more mating choices. Multi-TSNT gene(s) spread. A telepathic non-aggressive sub-species has now appeared (proto-TPs). Tele-kinesis/Teleportation -------------------------- No thoughts on these yet - any ideas? Combination with non-TPs ------------------------ A recessive mutation occurs - a receptor on TSNT-emitting brain cells is altered so that TSNTs no longer produced. The individual has no 'special powers' but has a fully-developed potential. Because of hostility from normal humans, such an individual would be vulnerable to attack if brought up with other proto-TPs but are otherwise not distinguishable from normal humans (other than low aggression). The baby is left with suitable (low aggression) 'normal' foster parents for protection. Since gene is recessive it has a chance to spread at random before individuals are removed from the proto-TP gene pool. Note: proto-TPs have 'special powers' from birth. The result is that potential-TP genes become spread at random through the normal human gene-pool. Modern TPs (10000-5000 years ago?): A single 'simple' mutation occurs that causes a neuro-transmitter or hormone (trigger neurotransmitter) that first occurs during puberty to be able to bind with the altered TSNT-emitting brain cell receptor (this is the TP 'gene' mentioned in "Hitler's Last Secret"). TSNTs are produced and the individual suddenly has the full set of 'special powers' that are incompatible with aggression - the first 'break-out'. Possibilities for Fan Fiction: Where did the proto-TPs go? Did they develop space travel and spread through the galaxy? (Carol married an Andonisian ambassador and had children - they would need to be the same species). Are they still here but hiding? Is there a drug that makes certain 'saps' into Tomorrow People for a short time (causes the 'trigger neuro-transmitter' to be produced)? What was it like for the first proto-TP? What was it like for the first parents to 'foster' their 'special- powerless' baby with 'normal' foster parents? What was it like for the very first breakout? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TPTigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Evolution Date: 08 Jul 1998 10:49:18 -0500 (CDT) Peter Taylor wrote: >Tigger - I did computer science at university not genetics - please be gentle >with any silly mistakes :-). You must've read at least some Dawkins or something, 'cause the only thing I noticed wasn't silly-- and it's from a 300 level immunology course. In other words, you did better than your average Star Trek writer-- by light years. >Crossover(?) mutations: An interaction is established between an >antibody-generating >gene and a TSNT gene - an individual has millions of slightly differing TSNTs. Antibody genes are tricky. They go through a lot more processing than others in active antibody producing cells. There are three chains, or is it.... OK, I see where I'm mixed up, there are two protein chains in an antibody molecule, heavy and light. Each heavy chain is made up of three segments V D and J. On any given antibody gene, there are several versions of each segement, and they are spliced in different ways while still in gene form during the formation of antibody forms. Becasue the splicing is inexact, there are literally hundreds of ways that each segment version could be attached to an active antibody genes. While not all these rearrangements can form a protein, a lot can, so there's a lot of variablity. The same is true of the light chain, except that there are only V and J segments, not D segments. And since it doesn't really matter where an antibody molecule binds, there's just no way to predict two people having even remotely similar antibody molecules-- at least not before the invention of vaccines that only give small pieces of the virus. I don't know enough about neurotransmitters to really say anything about the rest of it. And sorry about the de facto biology lesson, hopefully it makes sense. (I'd try and do an ASCII figure, but it might be tricky.) This is very different from my own theory of TP Evolution (which I'll post eventually, promise;), but it's not unsound or anythign. Oh, one question: where do the Kulthan fit into all this? Don't forget about the psi-dampening generators they had going for years and years.... Tigger (who's kinda excited about this idea) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Taylor Subject: RE: TPDIS: TP Evolution Date: 09 Jul 1998 11:16:35 +0100 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDAB2B.2E9E1F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<< Taylor: Crossover(?) mutations: An interaction is established between an antibody-generating gene and a TSNT gene - an individual has millions of slightly differing TSNTs. Tigger: [...] And since it doesn't really matter where an antibody molecule binds, there's just no way to predict two people having even remotely similar antibody molecules-- at least not before the invention of vaccines that only give small pieces of the virus. >>> Peter: My idea was that only the gene(s) involved in producing the variability would be involved - and in a limited way - to produce a large number of _small_ variations. <<< Tigger: I don't know enough about neurotransmitters to really say anything about the rest of it. >>> Peter: On reflection I might have got the details wrong. I think neuro-transmitters are small molecules and so can have little variability and I might have got neuro-transmitters and hormones confused. To make things suitably vague to cover the cracks read 'brain chemical emitters' for 'neuro-transmitters' :-) <<< Tigger: This is very different from my own theory of TP Evolution (which I'll post eventually, promise;), but it's not unsound or anythign. >>> Peter: Somehow I think a lot of fan-fiction set long before the first series is about to appear. (list-precognition?) <<< Tigger: Oh, one question: where do the Kulthan fit into all this? Don't forget about the psi-dampening generators they had going for years and years.... Tigger (who's kinda excited about this idea) >>> Peter: (back on topic :-) ) That is the reason I put the first (modern) breakout at 5000 to 10000 years ago, i.e. either just before or during the Kulthan occupation. The remaining problem is why were there no 'mass' breakouts when the psi-damper finally failed. Any one who would normally have broken out over the 50 years or so before the psi-damper failed would suddenly have the full set of TP powers with no training - exactly the case with a 'normal' breakout. Maybe the psi-damper didn't just stop - as on Piri (sp.) - but slowly became weaker causing some special-powers to partially appear. Maybe triggering the 16th century(?) witch-hunts and the like - eliminating anyone with the 'active' trigger gene. If the gene was recessive it would still be in the gene pool and would appear as sporadic breakouts later. Of course if the trigger gene was recessive then a brother or sister of a TP with normal parents (both parents would have to have one copy of the 'trigger' gene) would have a 25% chance of becoming a TP and all children of TP parents would be TPs. Some more fanfic ideas: What are the stories of the TP that broke out before John and where did they go? Did any of the old or new series TPs come from large families and so could have a younger TP brother or sister? 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I would like to have a copy without having to flip through various emails to get the whole picture. Thanks, Michele _________________________________________________________________ He's dead, Jim. You grab his tricorder, I'll get his wallet. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CompuExp Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Evolution Date: 09 Jul 1998 12:00:30 -0500 Peter Taylor wrote: > > A possible explanation of how the TP 'gene' originally evolved - series canon > implies it just 'appeared' suddenly but it would have needed time to evolve > especially since there are multiple characteristics - 3 main 'special powers' plus > the inability to kill. > There is currently going a little bit different version on telepathy and telekinesis. Like for example, almost all animals have slight telepathic abilities. And telepathy could have evolved at the time bugs appeared. Thince a lot of the bugs use electro-magnetic signals to communicate. Some animals have been known to find their owners in the new location in which they have never been. (They were probably were linked to their owners by means of telepathy). There is more examples. But the main thing is that telepathy and telekinetic abilities have been present in everyone. Most of the time people don't even notice it. There is a strong telepathic link between all twins. It could be that in most people it's in subconscious mind and which means it's can not be accessed and controlled by most people unless probably during sleep. So for example if somebody will be able to access his subconscious mind and use some of the things in it, you'll get something interesting. As far as telekinesis, everyone got quite a level of electricity in their body (I believe it was around 300 volts) if you can generate magnetic field you could move objects. Almost anything can be magnetized thince almost everything in our world has some electric charge in it, it all depends on the frequency and power of magnetic fields. Well, that's about some of the stuff that I read from science magazines from Europe. Alex. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TPTigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: TP Evolution Date: 10 Jul 1998 11:27:52 -0500 (CDT) Peter wrote: >My idea was that only the gene(s) involved in producing the variability would >be involved - and in a limited way - to produce a large number of _small_ >variations. Um, generally genes don't interact with things at the DNA level. The general mantra is DNA goes to RNA which goes to protein, adn that's where all the qualities come to play. DNA is just instructions for making protein. It's a bit more complicated than that, but in general it's the protein that does all the dirty work. >Somehow I think a lot of fan-fiction set long before the first series is >about to appear. (list-precognition?) Not really in my plans. Well, maybe. >That is the reason I put the first (modern) breakout at 5000 to 10000 years >ago, i.e. either just before or during the Kulthan occupation. OK, I admit it, I can't remember dates. WE were never asked to concentrate on the dates, more on events and concepts and such in my classes in high school. Consequently, I remember that Egyptians contributed a lot to mathematics, architecture, etc, but can't remmber when they lived! >Maybe triggering the 16th century(?) >witch-hunts and the like - eliminating anyone with the 'active' trigger gene. This fits in pretty well with my theory. >Of course if the trigger gene was recessive then a brother or sister of a TP >with >normal parents (both parents would have to have one copy of the 'trigger' gene) >would have a 25% chance of becoming a TP and all children of TP parents would >be TPs. Assuming Mendialian inheritance, at least. (As in yes, unless it's an exception-- ie non-nuclear DNA or a group of genes instead of one gene or.... well, you get the idea.) I'll shut up now, I think. :) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 19 Jul 1998 12:31:56 CDT Hi. It's too quiet around here for me; and I'm still wondering about some things some of us were talking about in chat last night. So here goes: What do we know about the differences in psi abilites of different races? Are there or could there be nontelepathic races in the Federation? In 'Slaves of Jedekiah', the Cyclops was nontelepathic, yet he was able to jaunt (with lots of extra power). Are there any comments or conclusions to be found in this? Kristy (Who is still more than a little rusty on her TP knowledge - feel free to state the obvious.) ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adams Subject: TPDIS: a couple of stray ideas Date: 19 Jul 1998 16:17:56 From Dianne wladams@comp.uark.edu to everyone Kristy had a couple of questions concerning the various peoples of the Galactic Federation, I'd like to toss out my idea or two. First off, I always saw the members as a very, very diverse group, with the beings possessing powers, that humankind could not even imagine. Afterall, we are dealing with beings with different, likely very different phyisologies. Perhaps beings who to us would look like a colony of ants or sheets of twinkling lights, with spinning balls skirting about. The latter was how I saw the Sophostatrians (sp), in one of my older stories. As odd as it seems, I do not see the Sophostatrains as members of the Galactic Federation, largely because the beings are too far evolved to have day to day dealings with the Trig. I believe that full membership requires a peaceful, stable civilzation, which is able to acknowledge different beings from different worlds, and finally coupled with the talent of being able communicate across specific energy (psionically to us) wavelengths. Outside of the telepathy, about any talent could and likely would exist within the Federation. Cyclops was non-telepathic, however, if I remember right, he had a telepathic crew of slaves to fly his ship. For some reason, the telepaths all died, so Cyclops sent out Jedekiah to fetch some more. I guess the Cyclops was so difficult to jaunt because the great distance to his home, and his great mass. Later on in the series, it was pointed out that Kultons could not be jaunted because of their phyisology. Dang, its hot in Arkansas! I'm still working on translating 'The Tomorrow Tesh' (Dr Who and Tomorrow People cross) while I'm waiting to hear from Susan Garrett, to get her offical okay. Kristy's use of Richard Adams quote was cool! Must Dash Dianne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: a couple of stray ideas Date: 20 Jul 1998 00:53:08 CDT >Cyclops was so difficult to jaunt because the great distance to his home, >and his great mass. I just keep wondering about him being able to use a jaunting belt (as opposed to a matter transporter) at all, since he was not telepathic. Do you think he did possess some teleportation ability of his own (It couldn't have been much or he wouldn't have needed his ship at all)? Or do you think the TP were able to transfer their ablity on him in some way? In that case I think it could very easily be what lead John to working on a matter transporter - which may work by 'borrowing' their ability as well. Or in the first case (the cyclops having the ability himself), would that be a very rare case (since he was not telepathic) and do you think the Federation would accept a race with that combination of abilities? *Must* all members be telepathic - or do we know? Just wondering. Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jane starr Subject: TPDIS: Living stones in calgary Date: 20 Jul 1998 00:11:41 -0600 Just back from ConVersion, the annual sf con held in Calgary, where I was thrilled to find "The Living Stones" on the video program. Finally, I thought, I get to see another episode of the new TP (I've only seen the origin story). Then I discovered that it was scheduled overlapping the guest of honour speeches... Sigh. I figured I was more likely to see the TP again than Joe Straczynski, so I only saw from midway through the second-last episode onwards. Still, better than nothing. Having read the book, at least I knew what was going on, and it was nice to see the new TP - first time I've seen Jade in action, and the rapport between Adam and Megabyte was neat. Still on a bit of a high, although only a small part is due to seeing the new TP - I'd have to go way off topic to give all the reasons (although if you are B5 fans you'll figure most of it out in time ;) Goodnight Jane Jane Starr starr@planet.eon.net 9518-91 st., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6C 3P5 check out the new ON SPEC web page at www.icomm.ca/onspec/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcell J. Elsegood" Subject: Re: TPDIS: a couple of stray ideas Date: 20 Jul 1998 08:42:27 -0600 (CST) Kristy..I think the problem with a jaunting belt vs. a matter transporter arose within our ranks just due to the fact that the Slaves of Jedikiah was a pilot. Pilots almost never have the TV series' intricacies worked out. On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Kristy Fahrenwald wrote: > >Cyclops was so difficult to jaunt because the great distance to his > home, > >and his great mass. > > I just keep wondering about him being able to use a jaunting belt (as > opposed to a matter transporter) at all, since he was not telepathic. > Do you think he did possess some teleportation ability of his own (It > couldn't have been much or he wouldn't have needed his ship at all)? Or > do you think the TP were able to transfer their ablity on him in some > way? In that case I think it could very easily be what lead John to > working on a matter transporter - which may work by 'borrowing' their > ability as well. > > Or in the first case (the cyclops having the ability himself), would > that be a very rare case (since he was not telepathic) and do you think > the Federation would accept a race with that combination of abilities? > *Must* all members be telepathic - or do we know? > > Just wondering. > > Kristy > > ********************************************************************* > > "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. > And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must > catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. > Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be > destroyed." > > Richard Adams > Watership Down > > ********************************************************************* > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM J M A R C E L L J. E L S E G O O D J J J J "Forget belief systems; forget the perimeters of J J rational thinking as it so smugly is called, and J J feel, my friend, feel....." -K.A.R.R. J J J EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scott goldman Subject: Re: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 20 Jul 1998 12:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Well... we do know that there can be a different level of... oh... lets call it 'transportability' ... in different races... The Thargons can't be matter transported at all... in The war of the empires John and Mike(?) are on the command ship when it is disabled. As the enemy (i can't remember the other races name!) is about to attack, Mike offers to matter transport the Thargons to safety. John replies, that the Thargons can't be matter transported. This is backed up (i know the episodes are ot of order) by The Thargon Menace.. Finn & Sula (horrible sp!) pretend to be injured, but Tim can't matter transport them in again giving that same reason. Going backwards again, we know that Earthings can be matter transported as Chris, and Lee are done so in The Doomsday Men. And we know (obviously) of several races that can Jaunt! Thats 3 different levels of transportability.... With regard to SOJ, lets just say once they used the matter transporter to Save the Cyclops, John forgot about it and had to re-invent it in The Doomsday Menu :)! But this transportability thing does have a parallel... The Time disks can be USED by more races than it can be controlled by. You need a telepath to operated the time lanes (unless you've modfied the equipment) but non-telepaths use the lanes Thats just my take on it! > > What do we know about the differences in psi abilites of different > races? Are there or could there be nontelepathic races in the > Federation? > > In 'Slaves of Jedekiah', the Cyclops was nontelepathic, yet he was able > to jaunt (with lots of extra power). Are there any comments or > conclusions to be found in this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: a couple of stray ideas Date: 20 Jul 1998 12:28:02 CDT >Kristy..I think the problem with a jaunting belt vs. a matter transporter >arose within our ranks just due to the fact that the Slaves of Jedikiah >was a pilot. Pilots almost never have the TV series' intricacies worked >out. Yeah, but I was trying to work out the problem instead of acknowledge it. I hate just leaving it as an 'oops' - even if it was. (I also find that more fun than closing my eyes, putting my fingers in my ears, and humming though any inconsistancies.) Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kristy Fahrenwald" Subject: Re: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 20 Jul 1998 12:36:32 CDT >The Thargons can't be matter transported at all... > >Going backwards again, we know that Earthings can be matter transported >as Chris, and Lee are done so in The Doomsday Men. > >And we know (obviously) of several races that can Jaunt! > >Thats 3 different levels of transportability.... > >With regard to SOJ, lets just say once they used the matter transporter >to Save the Cyclops, John forgot about it and had to re-invent it in The >Doomsday Menu :)! I guess I see the Cyclops as a fourth level, somewhere between the saps and the TP/other jaunting races. What do you think of that? With his ability to be jaunted with a lot of help/power being what led John to work on the matter transporter idea? (I don't know, I just keep coming back to the idea. Do you think it is possible at all?) Kristy ********************************************************************* "All the world will be your enemy, Prince With a Thousand Enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you--digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." Richard Adams Watership Down ********************************************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scottg@global2000.net (ScottG) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 20 Jul 1998 19:35:20 -0400 >I guess I see the Cyclops as a fourth level, somewhere between the saps >and the TP/other jaunting races. What do you think of that? With his >ability to be jaunted with a lot of help/power being what led John to >work on the matter transporter idea? (I don't know, I just keep coming >back to the idea. Do you think it is possible at all?) I'm trying to remember the scene... what exactly john say.. matter transport or jaunt?... if he uses the word jaunt then your'e right... there is a fourth level...if not then the cyclops is that sencond level... matter transport yes, jaunt no... but wait there's more.... can races that can't jaunt or matter transport (like the thargons) use the time lanes???are the gaurdians of time powerless? Interesting..... Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TPTigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 20 Jul 1998 22:07:06 -0500 (CDT) Scott G wrote: >I'm trying to remember the scene... what exactly john say.. matter transport >or jaunt?... Jaunt. John didn't invent a matter transporter 'til Series 2 remember? Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: scottg@global2000.net (ScottG) Subject: Re: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 21 Jul 1998 11:13:17 -0400 >Scott G wrote: >>I'm trying to remember the scene... what exactly john say.. matter transport >>or jaunt?... >Jaunt. John didn't invent a matter transporter 'til Series 2 remember? >Tigger > uh uh.... its not that easy... using LOGIC to check continuity?????:) as i mention earlier... john could have inventeded it twice! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TPTigger Subject: Re: TPDIS: Content-Type: text/plain Date: 21 Jul 1998 13:45:09 -0500 (CDT) Scott G wrote: >uh uh.... its not that easy... using LOGIC to check continuity?????:) >as i mention earlier... john could have inventeded it twice! I gave up trying this years ago. Simply put, TP has as many plot holes as Dr Who (well, proportionally:), just work around it as best you can. ;) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TPTigger Subject: TPDIS: Web pages moving Date: 22 Jul 1998 13:29:59 -0500 (CDT) My TP pages (and all the others for that matter) have been moved to: http://www.inlink.com/~epsteins/ the last part hasn't changed (makes my link changing easier), so the pages would be: main page: tomorrow_people.html drinking games: original: osdg.html new: tpdg.html character guides: original: tpchar.html new: nschar.html Please update all links accordingly. (Have fun Shaun.:) Tigger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Owen Hately <075466@bud.cc.swin.edu.au> Subject: TPDIS: Alexandra Milman Date: 29 Jul 1998 16:32:47 +1000 (EST) All Australian fans note. As of next Monday, August 3rd, at 5pm, the 2nd series of 'The Genie From Down Under' *starring* Alex Milman as Penelope Townes will air. Information about this series including a recent photo of Alex can be found at the Australian Children's Television Foundation site at: http://www.actf.com.au/programs/the_genie_from_down_under/genie2_1.html Dreadnought