From: owner-utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-astronomy-digest) To: utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-astronomy-digest V1 #65 Reply-To: utah-astronomy-digest Sender: owner-utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-astronomy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-astronomy-digest Saturday, October 27 2001 Volume 01 : Number 065 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:09:13 -0700 From: Grahn Family Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Dobs Mount Problem Joe, It sounds like a relatively straightforward problem (although....). How about bringing the base (you won't need the optical tube) over to our house tomorrow night and letting Allen take a look at it with you. Call for directions, we're in the book under Allen Grahn. I think we live pretty close to you. Jo At 08:35 PM 10/15/2001 -0600, you wrote: >I'm experiencing a problem with my dobs mount, and I wonder if someone >can shed some light on it. > >My trusty 8" Celestron is very sticky between the two platters, and I >can't seem to find a remedy. Despite several cleanings it's been >getting worse through the summer, and this past week end it was just >unbearable; instead of the mount spinning as it should, the whole thing >spun on the gravel. Fine adjustments turn into shoving matches; I can't >track and object to save my life! > >As mentioned, I've taken it apart and cleaned all the surfaces, which >has taken care of the problem when it's happened before. Yesterday I >put three plastic milk bottle shims between the two platters at the >pivot bolt, but that dosen't seem to help either. Maybe I need more? > >I've also noticed that the bushing that holds the pivot bolt in place is >considerably longer than the platter is thick. Consequently, in >tightening the bolt down, the bushing has left a slight depression in >the surface material of the lower platter. I was hoping the shims would >take of that, but they don't provide any appreciable effect. > >A year or two ago, I replaced the bearings with some new teflon (Chuck, >the material I bought it from you...) and now I wonder if maybe that is >what I ought to do again. I 'milled' down the teflon to about 1/8" >thick; is there an optimal thickness I should try? > >Any advice is appreciated; it's new moon week, and a guy just shouldn't >be without his telescope... > >Thanks- > >Joe Borgione > > >- > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. > > - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:33:44 -0600 From: "Gary Liptrot" Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) Dobs Mount Problem Hey Joe, I feel fer ya. I don't even like to be without a scope during those lovely periods of lunar observing. Had to get a plug for one of my favorite solar system objects... B) I'm not a machinist like Larry or a quality craftsman like Chuck but in my experience with putting many Dobs together in the past I'll offer this for what its worth (oops FWIW I guess is cool netspeak). I think you hit the nail on the head with the central bearing. The teflon pads that you replaced last year is as good as it gets in that department. Sounds like you matched them well with the gap between the ground board and the rocker box. I rarely clean mine and as long as you kept the teflon on the ground board and it then rides on the smooth laminate (?) surface of the rocker box then that should be good. Looking closer at the central bearing system. I'm not familiar with your particular system but they are all similar. You just need a pivot that does two things. Hold the rocker box from falling off ground board and providing 360 degrees of free movement. The teflon is then left to do its work. It sounds to me like this bearing system has broken down. you wrote >>> I've also noticed that the bushing that holds the pivot bolt in place is considerably longer than the platter is thick. Consequently, in tightening the bolt down, the bushing has left a slight depression in the surface material of the lower platter. <<< I sounds like the narrow tolerances of that middle bearing have worn to the point that things are rubbing in the middle. If that's the case then the shims either aggravated that situation or just didn't have enough room to overcome it. Well enough psuedo-technical drivel... One solution may be as simple as taking some length off of your bolt or your bushing or both. Another thing you may look for is any scoring in the bushing or on the bolt. A little sand paper/emery cloth/steel wool would fix this. A more aggessive solution may be providing a simpler pivot. In the "good old days" we used a lag bolt. Those are just big woodscrews with a hex head on them. The lag bolt would come through the rocker box bottom where your bushing/bolt is now. Make this hole big enough for the lag bolt to turn freely, no lubrication necessary. A large washer is used here for the hex hex to ride on. The ground board is drilled so the lag bolt will tightly screw into it like any woodscrew. The tension is simply adjusted by the lag bolt. Its a simple system that would get you up and observing with only minor modification and expense. I'm sure there are more professional "machining" type solutions but if you're like me you may not have the tools to do it. "My" solution has always worked and retains that buttery smoothness in azimuth. Sometimes when people are trying to explain thing to me I get lost, so feel free to contact me directly if this remotely sound like a solution. I would be glad to explain it in English... B) Good luck, your friend in the "sport" of astronomy Gary Liptrot n7zi@home.com I just read Allen Grahn's offer to look at it. Cool, maybe this post will still be of some help while you two are figuring it out. Always helps to have other viewpoints. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Joe Borgione Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:36 PM To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com Subject: (utah-astronomy) Dobs Mount Problem I'm experiencing a problem with my dobs mount, and I wonder if someone can shed some light on it. My trusty 8" Celestron is very sticky between the two platters, and I can't seem to find a remedy. Despite several cleanings it's been getting worse through the summer, and this past week end it was just unbearable; instead of the mount spinning as it should, the whole thing spun on the gravel. Fine adjustments turn into shoving matches; I can't track and object to save my life! As mentioned, I've taken it apart and cleaned all the surfaces, which has taken care of the problem when it's happened before. Yesterday I put three plastic milk bottle shims between the two platters at the pivot bolt, but that dosen't seem to help either. Maybe I need more? I've also noticed that the bushing that holds the pivot bolt in place is considerably longer than the platter is thick. Consequently, in tightening the bolt down, the bushing has left a slight depression in the surface material of the lower platter. I was hoping the shims would take of that, but they don't provide any appreciable effect. A year or two ago, I replaced the bearings with some new teflon (Chuck, the material I bought it from you...) and now I wonder if maybe that is what I ought to do again. I 'milled' down the teflon to about 1/8" thick; is there an optimal thickness I should try? Any advice is appreciated; it's new moon week, and a guy just shouldn't be without his telescope... Thanks- Joe Borgione - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:12:05 -0600 From: Joe Borgione Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Dobs Mount Problem My thanks to Jo & Gary for their replies; I'll contact you off list. It seems like a problem that can be remedied with a little more thought and ingenuity. Joe Borgione - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:35:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Big Binos Thanks to all those who purchased the 15 x 70's and posted to that effect. It seems that well over a dozen of these binoculars went to northern Utah astronomers. These binos were discussed on a couple of astro-forums on-line last year; I'd be willing to bet that a majority of them sold by Sportsmans Guide went to our kind of people! The 11 x 70's I mentioned yesterday have been sold. (To a black-powder turkey hunter!) Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:25:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Ding-dong, the witch is dead! Hurrah! Daniel Golden has submitted his resignation! Now maybe NASA can get a leader with vision and correct priorities, instead of a bean-counting congressional yes-man and firefighter. C. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:17:09 -0600 From: Joe Bauman Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Ding-dong, the witch is dead! Right on! jb - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:39:02 -0600 From: Richard Brady Subject: (utah-astronomy) Kerr Dental Plaster Does anybody know of a local source for Kerr dental plaster? Or if not a local source a mail order source? Thanks in advance, Richard Brady - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:43:21 -0600 From: David Dunn Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) Kerr Dental Plaster I bought Hydrocal from Capital Ceramics at 2174 S Main. It came in a 100lb bag. It is supposed to be the same stuff as Dental stone. - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Brady [mailto:rhbstargazer@networld.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:39 AM To: Astronomy List, Utah Subject: (utah-astronomy) Kerr Dental Plaster Does anybody know of a local source for Kerr dental plaster? Or if not a local source a mail order source? Thanks in advance, Richard Brady - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:16:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Tool foundations I'm willing to offer my services to anyone who would rather use a fiberglassed plywood foundation than a dental plaster foundation. A fiberglassed plywood foundation is MUCH lighter than plaster, and works just as well. It also doesn't self-destruct if you accidentally drop it. If you make the plywood part (at LEAST 2 layers of 3/4") and bring it to me, I'll fiberglass it for you FREE. You have to do your own curve generating before glassing, if desired. Also, last year I developed a ceramic/composite grinding tool. A fellow I know back east was going to test it for me, but never did report back, and won't reply to me anymore because I declined his business proposal. I'd be happy to make another for a LOCAL atm if you promise to use it and let me know how it works! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Watson Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Kerr Dental Plaster I have used plaster of paris with ceramic tile embedded on top. It worked well. I wonder if you need something more expensive, or if the dental stone is more expensive. Brent - --- Richard Brady wrote: > Does anybody know of a local source for Kerr dental > plaster? Or if not > a local source a mail order source? > > Thanks in advance, > > Richard Brady > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) A word about wood Many people have asked me lately, having been a professional woodworker, why I don't use plywood or hardwood on my telescopes anymore. I'll post my reply and save myself some typing and talking. This question has a complex answer, the practical reason is: Telescopes made from wood do not last long enough. Having been in this hobby for, lets see, almost 35 years, I have seen many, MANY telescopes made from wood that looked absolutely beautiful when new, but, if they were used much at all, soon lost those good looks. After 20, 25 years at most, they are no longer beautiful. Plywood, even well-sealed, delaminates. The glues that bind the layers together deteriorate all on their own with age and ozone exposure. Modern adhesives aren't as good as the old ones, due to legislation preventing the use of certain solvents that are carcinogenic (formaldehyde, etc.) And we all know that plywood does not take bumps and hits well. 20-year old wood items are usually dimpled like a golf ball. I found this out the hard way...you only build a metal telescope once, you are building a wood scope forever, until it eventually dies or you don't want to look at it anymore. You can extend the life of a wood scope by using it less frequently, or rebuilding/refinishing it more frequently. I was once told by someone older than I: "Use wood for something to be used in your own lifetime. Turn to more permanent materials if you want your telescope to outlast you". So, there IS a place for those good-looking apple or birch ply scopes, but don't plan on passing it on to your grandchildren, at least in the condition it's in now. I feel that if I'm going to spend a portion of my limited lifetime building something like a telescope, it should last several generations, to make the time investment worthwhile. Eventually, even metal, plastic, and composites will deteriorate, but this span is measured in centuries, not decades or less. Im rather hoping that my all-composite scopes will be around for 1,000 years. Ever see a 1,000 year old piece of wood with any integrity? There must be hundreds of "me too" telescope manufacturers out there, all building variations of what has been published to date. I'll wager that 99% of them will be parted-out or discarded after their original owners die, or after 30 years or so of regular use. A mere 30 year lifespan for a telescope is a disgrace. I wish the hoard of manufacturers selling these things would think about the lifespan of the materials they use. But of course, all they are thinking about is their bank accounts...(example: kits with perhaps fifty or sixty dollars worth of parts and materials, selling for twelve hundred dollars! There's a lost soul, to be sure!) Cellulose is a temporary material. And even though I use MDF judiciously, I seal it with polymers, and am still looking for a better material. Too, plywood is easily worked by hobbyists and non-woodworkers. Even butt-ugly telescopes are admired by their builders...love is truly blind. A couple of books in particular, by Mssrs. K & B, have set thousands of atms off in the same direction. Remember that neither of them are craftsmen by trade or education. What they designed works well, looks good to most people, but it just won't be around for long unless it's treated like a religious icon. For the same money as a plywood scope that basically dies when you do, you can have one that can stay in your family for generations and still get used. Don't get me wrong. I like the looks of a fine wood finish, but it belongs on furniture, sculpture, not something that spends all it's time outdoors when in use. Until I see teak ply for sale, I'll stay firm in this belief! And even teak has its limitations. I think a lot of atms (AND MANUFACTURERS) don't realize the limited lifetime of wood telescopes just because they haven't been in the hobby long enough. There is another reason I don't use plywood, but it is not a practical reason. It has to do with art and ego. Generally, I enjoy things that the majority do not. When everyone is making plywood scopes, it becomes less attractive...look at it as the "path less travelled". Part of the reason I stopped going to star parties years ago is because everyone else DID! 30 years ago, a star party consisted of maybe three or four people. Then, in the 80's, this obscure little hobby caught on with the masses...I enjoy solitude when under the stars, and always have. Don't get me wrong; star party attendees are GREAT, FANTASTIC people. But they go to socialize; I used to go to get away from the crowd. When I started, amateur astronomy was a different animal. So, for this same reason, the artist in me won't allow me to use the common materials and forms. But as I said, that's not a practical reason, nor one that can be argued. Anyway, there it is: Wood is for today. Use other materials for tomorrow and ever after.... Thanks for the use of the soapbox! Whew! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:23:33 -0600 From: David Dunn Subject: RE: (utah-astronomy) Kerr Dental Plaster I have used plaster of paris for my tool for two of my mirrors. They were plenty strong. I think the only advantage of using the dental stone is that it is water proof. I didn't trust it when I made the tools for the mirrors I am working on and I water proofed them anyway. If I remember correctly the Hydrocal was $25 for 100lbs. Dave - -----Original Message----- From: Brent Watson [mailto:brentjwatson@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:49 PM To: utah-astronomy@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Kerr Dental Plaster I have used plaster of paris with ceramic tile embedded on top. It worked well. I wonder if you need something more expensive, or if the dental stone is more expensive. Brent - --- Richard Brady wrote: > Does anybody know of a local source for Kerr dental > plaster? Or if not > a local source a mail order source? > > Thanks in advance, > > Richard Brady > > > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:13:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Tenney Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) A word about wood Chuck, I at least coated my expensive Apple-ply Telekit with some expensive finish called Prothane, which the mfg'r claims will hold up better outdoors than any polyurethane made. That's some mitigation to cling to after your blistering essay on wood ;-) Also, I figure the 35 or so pounds of pyrex (which is the heart of any good scope anyway) WILL last long enough for any interested grandkids to resurrect the beast should the rest of it not be so aesthetically pleasing by then! Rich P.S. Thanks for sharing! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:24:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Watson Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) A word about wood Chuck, Excellent treatise. My only problem is that the scopes I have will not be enjoyed by my grandkids because of lack of interest. Look at what happened to the Clark. It certainly was quality built of lasting materials. I agree on the non-permanance of wood. I built my 22" in 1980. It looks like it has been through the war, although still structurally very sound. I just hope someone appreciates my all metal 8" refractor and 10" long focus newtonian long enough to keep them from being parted out. Brent - --- Chuck Hards wrote: > Many people have asked me lately, having been a > professional woodworker, why I don't use plywood or > hardwood on my telescopes anymore. I'll post my > reply > and save myself some typing and talking. > > This question has a complex answer, the practical > reason is: > > Telescopes made from wood do not last long enough. > > Having been in this hobby for, lets see, almost 35 > years, I have seen many, MANY telescopes made from > wood that looked absolutely beautiful when new, but, > if they were used much at all, soon lost those good > looks. After 20, 25 years at most, they are no > longer > beautiful. Plywood, even well-sealed, delaminates. > The glues that bind the layers together deteriorate > all on their own with age and ozone exposure. > Modern > adhesives aren't as good as the old ones, due to > legislation preventing the use of certain solvents > that are carcinogenic (formaldehyde, etc.) And we > all > know that plywood does not take bumps and hits well. > > 20-year old wood items are usually dimpled like a > golf > ball. I found this out the hard way...you only > build > a metal telescope once, you are building a wood > scope > forever, until it eventually dies or you don't want > to > look at it anymore. > > You can extend the life of a wood scope by using it > less frequently, or rebuilding/refinishing it more > frequently. > > I was once told by someone older than I: "Use wood > for something to be used in your own lifetime. Turn > to more permanent materials if you want your > telescope > to outlast you". > > So, there IS a place for those good-looking apple or > birch ply scopes, but don't plan on passing it on to > your grandchildren, at least in the condition it's > in > now. > > I feel that if I'm going to spend a portion of my > limited lifetime building something like a > telescope, > it should last several generations, to make the time > investment worthwhile. Eventually, even metal, > plastic, and composites will deteriorate, but this > span is measured in centuries, not decades or less. > Im rather hoping that my all-composite scopes will > be > around for 1,000 years. Ever see a 1,000 year old > piece of wood with any integrity? > > There must be hundreds of "me too" telescope > manufacturers out there, all building variations of > what has been published to date. I'll wager that > 99% > of them will be parted-out or discarded after their > original owners die, or after 30 years or so of > regular use. A mere 30 year lifespan for a > telescope > is a disgrace. I wish the hoard of manufacturers > selling these things would think about the lifespan > of > the materials they use. But of course, all they are > thinking about is their bank accounts...(example: > kits > with perhaps fifty or sixty dollars worth of parts > and > materials, selling for twelve hundred dollars! > There's a lost soul, to be sure!) > > Cellulose is a temporary material. And even though > I > use MDF judiciously, I seal it with polymers, and am > still looking for a better material. > > Too, plywood is easily worked by hobbyists and > non-woodworkers. Even butt-ugly telescopes are > admired by their builders...love is truly blind. > > A couple of books in particular, by Mssrs. K & B, > have > set thousands of atms off in the same direction. > Remember that neither of them are craftsmen by trade > or education. What they designed works well, looks > good to most people, but it just won't be around for > long unless it's treated like a religious icon. > > For the same money as a plywood scope that basically > dies when you do, you can have one that can stay in > your family for generations and still get used. > > Don't get me wrong. I like the looks of a fine wood > finish, but it belongs on furniture, sculpture, not > something that spends all it's time outdoors when in > use. Until I see teak ply for sale, I'll stay firm > in > this belief! And even teak has its limitations. > > I think a lot of atms (AND MANUFACTURERS) don't > realize the limited lifetime of wood telescopes just > because they haven't been in the hobby long enough. > > There is another reason I don't use plywood, but it > is > not a practical reason. It has to do with art and > ego. Generally, I enjoy things that the majority do > not. When everyone is making plywood scopes, it > becomes less attractive...look at it as the "path > less > travelled". Part of the reason I stopped going to > star parties years ago is because everyone else DID! > > 30 years ago, a star party consisted of maybe three > or > four people. Then, in the 80's, this obscure little > hobby caught on with the masses...I enjoy solitude > when under the stars, and always have. Don't get me > wrong; star party attendees are GREAT, FANTASTIC > people. But they go to socialize; I used to go to > get > away from the crowd. When I started, amateur > astronomy was a different animal. > So, for this same reason, the artist in me won't > allow > me to use the common materials and forms. But as I > said, that's not a practical reason, nor one that > can > be argued. > > Anyway, there it is: Wood is for today. Use other > materials for tomorrow and ever after.... > > Thanks for the use of the soapbox! > > Whew! > > Chuck > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:25:32 -0600 From: Joe Borgione Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Dobs Mount Problem > Just a follow up on the repair to my mount. This morning it appears that I've > resolved the issue of the sticky azmuth. In case someone out there has a > similar problem, here is what I did to remedy mine: The original pivot bolt was 5/16" with a nylon bushing. I went to a 1/2" bolt and brass bushings for both the rocker and the ground board. When I went to cut the ground board for the new bushing, the wonderful particle board pretty much disentegrated. So I took another trip to Home Depot, and bought myself a piece of 1 1/4" round hardwood stock and a 1 1/4" hole saw. I bored out the ground board and glued a 'plug' in place. This morning I hole-sawed for the bushing and using a nylon-insert lock nut to secure it, assembled the mount. I might also add that I used fender bolts between the rocker and the bolt head and between the ground board and the lock-nut. Both bushings are counter-sunk flush to thier respective surfaces. Now, I'm not going to claim butter status just yet; tonight will be the real test, but my preliminary test in the work shop passes with flying colors! While this project won't qualify me as an full blown ATM, I think I can honestly say my pivot design & function is better that factory! Clear, dark skies to all- Joe Borgione - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 13:44:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) A word about wood Hi Rich: Brent pointed out that sometimes longevity of the instrument really isn't a concern, and I have to admit that it's a legitimate justification of wood use. Modern finishes may be woods salvation in the end as well, as your experience presages. There are epoxy-urethane "hybrids" now being used commercially that are finding their way into the do-it-yourselfer's market. Prothane may be one of these. And it's awfully hard to beat the workability of wood, isn't it? I didn't mean to condemn wood wholesale, but my personal preference is elsewhere when possible. Too, my materials choices are based on a lot of technical exposure and practice that the average do-it-yourselfer may not have. I love that old Edmund book "All About Telescopes", by Sam Brown. He uses a lot of wood, and I'd copy one of his projects in a heartbeat. They have a certain charisma and practical workability that makes them very attractive. I suppose nostalgia is involved a bit, too. Chuck - --- Richard Tenney wrote: > Chuck, > > I at least coated my expensive Apple-ply Telekit > with > some expensive finish called Prothane, which the > mfg'r > claims will hold up better outdoors than any > polyurethane made. That's some mitigation to cling > to > after your blistering essay on wood ;-) Also, I > figure the 35 or so pounds of pyrex (which is the > heart of any good scope anyway) WILL last long > enough > for any interested grandkids to resurrect the beast > should the rest of it not be so aesthetically > pleasing > by then! > > Rich > > P.S. Thanks for sharing! > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > - > Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: > http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy > To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email > to "majordomo@xmission.com" > with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of > the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Fwd: Fw: BKD's Bill Kelley and I have been corresponding about reducing friction on Dob bearings; this sprang from a post of mine to the atm-list. Here is Bill's reply; he thought it might be useful to others besides just myself: (BTW, we are fortunate to have a "mover and shaker" of the atm world associated with us-Thanks again, Bill!) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Kelley > To: Chuck Hards > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: BKD's > > > > Hi Chuck, > > > > You are one of the few to remember BKD's ! It > appeared in July 1990 S&T. > > Subsequently the > > contraption was manufactured and sold for a while > by Hydro-Abrasive > Machine > > Co. of California. > > > > It has gone through much evolution to simplify > it. In its present form it > > consists of a flexible length of > > strap metal spanning the pivot bolt. The strap is > held down at one end > with > > a wood screw. A threaded > > bolt through the other end is capped with a wing > nut. Tightening the wing > > nut springs the strap over > > the pivot bolt, and transfers load adjustably from > the Teflon pads to the > > top of the pivot pin. > > > > When properly tweaked, tracking can be done at the > eyepiece, since > > resistance of the azimuth > > bearing can be adjusted to match the altitude > bearings. When explaining > this > > concept to others > > it is helpful to compare a dobsonian mounting to a > simple lever. > > > > It is probably time for another S&T article, > "BKD's revisited". > > > > I never cease to be amazed that Dob users are > still trying to put washers > on > > the pivot pin, > > and trying to achieve some kind of delicate > spacing that will lift some > > weight from the Teflon > > pads, but, not let the mounting wobble around. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chuck Hards > > To: William Kelley > > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 10:44 AM > > Subject: BKD's > > > > > > > Hi Bill: > > > > > > Could you tell me which issue of S & T had your > "BKD's" detailed? Seems > > to > > > me it's been about ten years. > > > > > > There's some talk on the atm list now about > pre-loading the pivot bolt, > > and > > > I've had lots of private emails from list > members not familiar with the > > > adjustable spring-loaded system. I'd like to > point them to the original > > > article. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:25:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Hards Subject: (utah-astronomy) Saturday's star party My wife and daughter amazed me yesterday, they want to go to the star-party at SPOC on Saturday! So, I'm going to make a rare appearance (hope that doesn't scare anybody else away!) I'll bring a "Woodshop" scope or two, if anyone cares to see one close-up, and if there's room in the car, I'll bring the all-fiberglass 10". I also will bring the "Next Generation" bino bracket which has the Quickfinder platform. Maybe Roger Butz can be persuaded to bring his 8" "Woodshop" scope. Patrick, will we be setting up in the parking lot, or on the grass? Also, the ladies want to know if there's a restroom. Weather permitting, see you there. Chuck __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:03:41 -0600 From: Patrick Wiggins Subject: Re: (utah-astronomy) Saturday's star party Chuck Hards wrote: > > Maybe Roger Butz can be persuaded to bring his 8" > "Woodshop" scope. He just got back into town after driving a U-Haul truck from New York. sounded pretty pooped when I spoke with him but said he'd try to make it. > Patrick, will we be setting up in the parking lot, or > on the grass? Parking lot. They've just hydroseeded and sodded the lawns. > Also, the ladies want to know if there's a restroom. Just the ladies? For whomever needs one, there a porta-potty. Cheers! Patrick :-) - - Visit the Utah Astronomy Message Board: http://pub61.ezboard.com/butahastronomy To unsubscribe from utah-astronomy, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe utah-astronomy" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of utah-astronomy-digest V1 #65 *********************************** - To unsubscribe to $LIST, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe $LIST" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.