From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #41 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Monday, March 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 041 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:24:13 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Supreme Court to decide Foster notes case Well, the last one has already expired, but I found this lurking in the stack. One more nail in the coffin.... Will Thompson wrote: > > http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/politics/033098/politicst_23515_body.html > > > Supreme Court to decide Foster notes case > > Copyright © 1998 Nando.net > Copyright © 1998 The Associated Press > WASHINGTON (March 30, 1998 11:43 a.m. EST http://www.nando.net) -- The > Supreme Court Monday delayed efforts ... > In other action Monday, the court: ... > > * Rejected the appeal of a U.S. soldier facing a bad-conduct discharge > for refusing to wear a United Nations shoulder patch and U.N. blue > beret for a peace-keeping mission. ... > By LAURIE ASSEO, The Associated Press > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:52:57 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: [Fwd: Re: Survey Query] Received: from ns.phbtsus.com by toro.phbtsus.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20597; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:26:14 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from ssiinc.com by ns.phbtsus.com with SMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.9 $/16.2) id AA0062940320; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:11:44 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by wanderer.ssi (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17639; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:20:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "wanderer.ssiinc.com" via SMTP by localhost, id smtpdAAAa004JQ; Mon Feb 16 12:20:14 1998 Message-Id: <2F7EB641E6F@law1.law.ucla.edu> Errors-To: volokh@law.ucla.edu Reply-To: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Originator: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Sender: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Precedence: bulk From: "C. D. Tavares" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Survey Query X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > Does anyone have a statistical comparison between the annual number of > criminals killed by LEOs vs. criminals killed by citizens in the US or by > state? The classic study was done by Don Kates at the St. Louis School of Law. It was reported on in the 1/10/85 Wall Street Journal (Carol Ruth Silver & Don B. Kates, Jr., "Gun Control and the Subway Class"). Some of the findings: o Police were successful in shooting or driving off criminals 68% of the time; citizens succeeded 83% of the time. o 11% of individuals involved in police shootings were later found to be innocents misidentified as criminals; In civilian shootings, the figure was 2%. o Private citizens in urban areas encounter and kill up to three times as many criminals as do law enforcement authorities. - -- cdt@sw.stratus.com --If you presume that I speak for my company, users.aol.com/Tavares/ write now for my special Investors' Packet! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:50:19 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Fear Mongering on CCW permits Charles Hardy wrote: > > >From today's tribune. A letter with hard facts refuting the claim > that Texas CCW permit holders are twice as likely to be arrested > as a non CCW holder really needs to be written. If anyone has > good sources but doesn't want to write a letter for some reason, > pass them along and I'll write one. > > This is especially alarming because concealed-weapons permit > holders in Texas have been shown to have arrest rates as high as > twice that of the general population, according to health-research > specialist Sue Glick of the anti-gun Violence Policy Center in > Washington. > > I have another story quoting the VPC's "study" with other quotes by Sue Glick. I will forward that to the list, along with a possible couple of other things that might be helpful. Although I don't like the idea of using stats to justify rights, Lott seems to have done quite a bit of good work again. One of the next few forwards should have a link to something of his. They still wont' publish anything from me, and you seem to be able to get stuff in, so go for it! Will - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:51:23 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: [Fwd: Gun permit crime] Received: from ns.phbtsus.com by toro.phbtsus.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA12926; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:28:54 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from ssiinc.com by ns.phbtsus.com with SMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.9 $/16.2) id AA0236660792; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:27:04 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by wanderer.ssi (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00528; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:22:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "wanderer.ssiinc.com" via SMTP by localhost, id smtpdAAAa0007x; Wed Feb 11 10:21:50 1998 Message-Id: <268B2B212B2@law1.law.ucla.edu> Errors-To: volokh@law.ucla.edu Reply-To: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Originator: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Sender: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Precedence: bulk From: "Glenn Reynolds" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gun permit crime X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Concealed handguns and the crime rate Copyright =A9 1998 Nando.net Copyright =A9 1998 Scripps Howard [Forwarded with permission] (February 10, 1998 01:47 a.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - -- The wild old West might have been a tamer place than the Texas of today. For one thing, there's the number of Texans walking the streets now with legally licensed concealed firearms. At last count it's 151,433. So one in every 121 modern Texans is secretly packing iron. This is according to the Violence Policy Center, a non-profit citizen watchdog group in Washington, which has been keeping count of the number of Texans licensed by the state to carry concealed guns. Of course, lots and lots of Texans in the olden days kept guns up their sleeves and under their frock coats -- and nobody bothered with permits or keeping count. Another difference, though: Those were two-shot derringers and single-action Colts, and these days hidden pistols are more likely to be semi-automatic Glock-9s. The center also has been keeping tally, based on data from the Texas Department of Public Safety, of what Texans have been doing with the pistols in their pockets. More than 940 individuals with concealed handgun licenses have been arrested in the past two years since Texas' "shall-issue" law took effect. Their offenses: 263 felony arrests, including six charges of murder or attempted murder involving at least four deaths; two charges of kidnapping; 18 charges of sexual assault; 66 charges of assault; 48 cases of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon; and 42 other weapon-related charges, plus 683 misdemeanor arrests, including 215 instances of driving while intoxicated. "The National Rifle Association will be quick to argue that the 940 arrested are less than 1 percent of those with concealed weapons permits," says Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center. His associate, Susan Glick, who did the study, contends the more accurate way of gauging the violence is by comparing arrest rates of those with concealed carry permits and those without. "We find the weapon-related offense rate among concealed handgun license-holders is more than twice as high as general population of Texans aged 21 and older," says Glick. The center did a study last year on Florida, which has been freely giving permits for 12 years, and found 200,241 Floridians had received licenses to carry concealed firearms. That was one in every 69 Floridians with a hidden gun as of July 1995. At the time of the study, 469 individuals had committed crimes ranging from murder to kidnapping, either before or after getting the Florida permits. The study also found that hundreds of criminals had applied for Florida licenses and many had received them. Currently, 31 states issue some form of permits for concealed weapons: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia and Wyoming. Exactly how many people have gotten the permits nationwide is unknown. The center says each state has various ways of keeping count, and many have confidentiality laws that veil the records. No count is being kept by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms because the permits fall under state law and there is no federal issue at stake. Yet by the most conservative reckoning, at least a million Americans today are going about publicly with handguns concealed in their clothes. And with modern weaponry, every one is almost sure to be packing more firepower than either Billy the Kid or Sheriff Pat Garrett could imagine. "It's a scary number of them," says Glick, "whatever it is." Glenn Harlan Reynolds Professor of Law University of Tennessee 37996-1810 "The ability to think rationally is pretty rare, even in prestigious universities. We're in the TV age now and people think by linking images in their brains." -- Neal Stephenson - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Eugene Volokh, UCLA Law School, (310) 206-3926 fax -7010 Subscribe to CENTER-RIGHT, a free weeklyish mailing service for centrist, conservative, and libertarian op-eds. Send the message SUBSCRIBE CENTER-RIGHT to CRIGHT@FLASH.NET - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:53:25 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: [Fwd: Shortish op-ed on concealed carry] Received: from ns.phbtsus.com by toro.phbtsus.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA15858; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:41:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from ssiinc.com by ns.phbtsus.com with SMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.9 $/16.2) id AA0547851609; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:25:13 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by wanderer.ssi (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07162; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "wanderer.ssiinc.com" via SMTP by localhost, id smtpdAAAa001jl; Tue Mar 3 19:33:56 1998 Message-Id: <46732D63205@law1.law.ucla.edu> Errors-To: volokh@law.ucla.edu Reply-To: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Originator: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Sender: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Precedence: bulk From: "Eugene Volokh" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Shortish op-ed on concealed carry X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Reposted with permission. I suspect those on this list already know most of the facts chronicled here, but I thought it might still be useful for those who like to forward these sorts of things. - ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date sent: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:56:47 -0500 To: darvon@halcyon.com, cright@flash.net From: Center Right Subject: CENTER-RIGHT Issue 1, March 2, 1998 CENTER-RIGHT, a free weeklyish e-newsletter of centrist, conservative, and libertarian ideas Issue 1, March 2, 1998 Over 1100 subscribers PLEASE FEEL FREE TO FORWARD THIS to anyone you think might be interested. Subscription and unsubscription instructions at the bottom. ================================================================= No Smoking Guns: Answering Objections to Right-to-Carry Laws [1100 words] National Center for Policy Analysis, Brief Analysis No. 246 (by Morgan Reynolds & H. Sterling Burnett): Since 1986 the number of states in which it is legal to carry concealed weapons has grown from nine to 31, representing 49 percent of the country's population. Should we feel safer? Opponents of right-to-carry laws predicted a sharp decline in public safety because minor incidents would escalate into killings and more children would be victimized by more guns in irresponsible hands. Further, critics claimed that criminals would be undeterred by any increase in armed citizens. Indeed, they claimed that right-to-carry laws would increase crime rather than deter it. Experience has proven them wrong. What objections do the critics offer? Objection #1: Citizens are safe enough without handguns. Criminals commit 10 million violent and 30 million property crimes a year. Hospital emergency rooms treat an estimated 1.4 million people a year for injuries inflicted in violent attacks, according to a recent Department of Justice study. Since the U.S. Supreme Court and lower courts have held that the police are not obligated to protect individuals from crime, citizens are ultimately responsible for their own defense. Carrying a handgun allows millions to effectively provide for their own protection. Objection #2: Concealed weapons do not deter crime. In choosing their crimes, criminals weigh the prospective costs against the benefits. If criminals suspect that the costs will be too high, they are less likely to commit a crime. The possibility of a concealed weapon tilts the odds against the criminal and in favor of the victim. A survey of 1,847 felons in 10 states found them more concerned about meeting an armed victim than running into the police. Their concern is well founded. Victims use handguns an estimated 1.9 million times each year in self-defense against an attack by another person, according to a survey conducted by Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck. Studies have found that robbery and rape victims who resist with a gun cut the risks of injury in half. Moreover, a study by economists John Lott and David Mustard of the University of Chicago, published in the January 1997 Journal of Legal Studies, examined the impact of concealed carry permits. Using data from all 3,054 U.S. counties between 1977 and 1992, the study found that: * Concealed handgun laws reduced murder by 8.5 percent, rape by 5 percent and severe assault by 7 percent. * Had right-to-carry prevailed throughout the country, 1,600 fewer murders, 4,200 fewer rapes and 60,000 fewer severe assaults would have occurred during those 15 years. In addition, the deterrent effect of concealed handgun laws proved highest in counties with high crime rates. For example, FBI statistics showed that in counties with populations of more than 200,000 (typically the counties with the highest rates of violent crime), laws allowing concealed carry produced a 13 percent drop in the murder rate and a 7 percent decline in rapes. Case Study: Vermont. Vermont has long had the least restrictive firearms carry laws, allowing citizens to carry guns either openly or concealed without any permit. Vermont also has maintained one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. For example: * In 1980, when murders and robberies in the U.S. had soared to an average of 10 and 251 per 100,000 population, respectively, Vermont's murder rate was 22 percent of the national rate and its robbery rate was 15 percent. * In 1996 Vermont's rates remained among the lowest in the country at 25 percent of the national rate for homicide and 8 percent for robbery. Objection #3: Right-to-carry laws boost killings on impulse. Widespread gun availability was supposed to lead to a "wild- west" mentality with more shootings and deaths as people vented their anger with pistols instead of fists. Yet FBI data show that, as a share of all homicides, killings that resulted from arguments declined. In addition: * Dade County, Fla., kept meticulous records for six years, and of 21,000 permit holders, none was known to have injured an innocent person. * Since Virginia passed a right-to-carry law, more than 50,000 permits have been issued, not one permit holder has been convicted of a crime and violent crime has dropped. Moreover, those who have broken the rules have lost their privilege to carry a gun. * Texas has revoked or suspended nearly 300 permits for minor violations like failure to conceal or carrying a gun in a bar. * Between 1987 and 1995, Florida issued nearly 300,000 permits, but revoked only 19 because the permit holder had committed a crime. That's one crime per 14,000 permit holders during a nine-year period, an incredibly low rate compared to a criminal arrest rate of one per 14 Americans age 15 and older each year. Objection #4: Concealed carry puts guns in untrained hands. Before issuing a concealed carry permit, most states require that the applicant prove he or she has been thoroughly trained, with: * 10 to 15 hours emphasizing conflict resolution. * A pre-test and a final test covering the laws of self- defense and the consequences of misuse of deadly force. * A stress on gun safety in the classroom and on the firing range. * A stringent shooting accuracy test which applicants must pass each time they renew their permit. Of course, a person who has only a split second to decide whether to use deadly force can make a mistake. However, only about 30 such mistaken civilian shootings occur nationwide each year. The police kill in error three times as often. Objection #5: Concealed carry increases accidental gun deaths. The Lott-Mustard study found no increase in accidental shootings in counties with "shall issue" right-to-carry laws, where authorities have to issue the permit to all who meet the criteria. Nor have other studies. Nationally, there are about 1,400 accidental firearms deaths each year -- far fewer than the number of deaths attributable to medical errors or automobile accidents. The national death rate from firearms has declined even while firearm ownership has almost doubled in the last 20 years (figure at http://www.ncpa.org/ba/gif/firearms.gif), and 22 more states have liberalized right-to-carry laws: * The fatal firearm accident rate has declined to about .5 per 100,000 people -- a decrease of more than 19 percent in the last decade. * The number of fatal firearms-related accidents among children fell to an all-time low of 185 in 1994, a 64 percent decline since 1975. Conclusion. Concealed carry laws have not contributed to a big increase in gun ownership. Nor has allowing citizens the right to carry firearms for self-protection led to the negative consequences claimed by critics. In fact, these laws have lowered violent crime rates and increased the general level of knowledge concerning the rights, responsibilities and laws of firearm ownership. Putting unarmed citizens at the mercy of armed and violent criminals was never a good idea. Now that the evidence is in, we know that concealed carry is a social good. This Brief Analysis was prepared by Morgan Reynolds, Director of the NCPA Criminal Justice Center, and H. Sterling Burnett, Policy Analyst with the NCPA. Original document is on the Web at http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba246.html ================================================================= More on this topic: "Myths About Gun Control," also co-written by Morgan Reynolds of the NCPA, http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s176/s176.html NRA Web site, http://www.nra.org Handgun Control, Inc. Web site, http://www.handguncontrol.org (temporarily down when checked on Thursday, February 26). Second Amendment law library, http://www.2ndlawlib.org "The Commonplace Second Amendment," a law review article by your humble editor, forthcoming in the NYU Law Review, http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/volokh/common.htm ================================================================= This list is edited by Eugene Volokh, who teaches constitutional law and copyright law at UCLA Law School (http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/volokh), and organized with the help of Terry Wynn and the Federalist Society. To subscribe, send a message containing the text (NOT the subject line) SUBSCRIBE CENTER-RIGHT to cright@flash.net To unsubscribe, send a message containing the text (NOT the subject line) UNSUBSCRIBE CENTER-RIGHT to cright@flash.net CENTER-RIGHT, a low-traffic, high-quality electronic newsletter of centrist, conservative, and libertarian ideas. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Eugene Volokh, UCLA Law School, (310) 206-3926 fax -7010 405 Hilgard Ave., L.A., CA 90095 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:52:16 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: [Fwd: Re: Gun permit crime] Received: from ns.phbtsus.com by toro.phbtsus.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20398; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:03:05 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from ssiinc.com by ns.phbtsus.com with SMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.9 $/16.2) id AA0297815332; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:01:40 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by wanderer.ssi (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA02947; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:57:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:57:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "wanderer.ssiinc.com" via SMTP by localhost, id smtpdAAAa000hX; Wed Feb 11 15:56:59 1998 Message-Id: <283872B691A@law1.law.ucla.edu> Errors-To: volokh@law.ucla.edu Reply-To: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Originator: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Sender: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Precedence: bulk From: "C. D. Tavares" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Gun permit crime X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > This refers to Prof Reynolds' posting. I would be very grateful for > details of the four deaths and six charges of murder or attempted > murder by Texan concealed carry licensees. I know of only one case, a > homicide regarded as justified by the grand jury. > Dan Polsby See http://www.tsra.com/Lott.htm for some of these answers. The "four deaths and six charges of murder" are probably double-counting the same incidents. Lott remarks that: During 1996 and 1997, five permit holders were arrested for "deadly conduct/discharge of a firearm" and another two for the "deadly conduct/display of a firearm." Those charges were brought in connection with four deaths. Other salient points: While the vast majority of murder arrests end in conviction, that hasn't been true for permit holders. Of the four deaths mentioned, none has resulted in a conviction. In fact, two so far have been cleared and deemed to have acted in self-defense. These permit holders were about a third as likely to be arrested as nonpermit holders and much less likely to commit serious crimes. - -- cdt@sw.stratus.com --If you presume that I speak for my company, users.aol.com/Tavares/ write now for my special Investors' Packet! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:01:58 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: Untitled This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------43E860102B83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.tsra.com/Lott.htm - --------------43E860102B83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Lott.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Lott.htm" Getting the Violence Policy Center in Proper Focus [Image]by Professor John Lott* There has been some confusion over whether people who have permits to carry concealed handguns are as law-abiding as other Texans. Using the provocative title "License to Kill," the Violence Policy Center recently released a report claiming that "those who do carry concealed handguns get into trouble more often than other Texans." While there is cause to wonder whether the Violence Policy Center over reported the number of permit holders arrested, even its own numbers don't justify that claim. During 1996 and 1997, the first two years that the concealed handgun law was in effect, 163,096 people were licensed. During that period, 263 license holders were arrested for felony offenses, and another 683 were arrested for misdemeanor offenses. By comparison, if permit holders had been arrested at the same rate as the average adult Texan, they would have had 731 arrests for violence crimes and 2,202 for property crimes. These permit holders were about a third as likely to be arrested as nonpermit holders and much less likely to commit serious crimes. The public's ultimate concern is whether permit holders have used their concealed handguns improperly. So, let's look at some more statistics to determine that. During 1996 and 1997, five permit holders were arrested for "deadly conduct/discharge of a firearm" and another two for the "deadly conduct/display of a firearm." Those charges were brought in connection with four deaths. If permit holders had been arrested for murder at the same rate as other adult Texans, 56 would have been arrested. Equally important, relying on arrest rates misses an important difference between permit holders and others who are arrested for murder. While the vast majority of murder arrests end in conviction, that hasn't been true for permit holders. Of the four deaths mentioned, none has resulted in a conviction. In fact, two so far have been cleared and deemed to have acted in self-defense. Thirty-five other permit holders were arrested for other felony "weapon - -related offenses," but those involved the unlawful carrying of a weapon in places such as airports and schools. None of those cases apparently involved threats but invariably resulted from people who forgot they had a gun with them.; Overall, the experience in Texas is similar to that in other states. In Florida, almost 444,000 licenses were granted from 1987 through 1997. About half, 204,700 currently are licensed. Eighty-four people lost their licenses after using a firearm in the commission of a felony. So far in Virginia, not a single Virginia permit holder has been involved in a violent crime. Similar results have been observed in Kentucky, Nevada, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and other states for which detailed records are available. In December, Glenn White, president of the Dallas Police Association, summed up the typical reaction of those police officers who opposed the concealed handgun law before its adoption: "I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict. That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think it has worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I am a convert." Harris County District Attorney John Holmes admitted he is "eating a lot of crow on ;this issue. It isn't something I necessarily like to do, but I am doing it on this." In a forthcoming book, I find evidence indicating that concealed handgun laws save lives and reduce the threats that citizens face from rapes, robberies and assaults. Criminals tend to attack victims whom they perceive as weak, and guns can offset the differences in strength and serve as an important deterrent. People don't even have to carry a permit themselves to benefit. The fact that criminals can't tell whether a potential victim has a concealed gun makes them less likely to attack people in general. Without a doubt, people do bad things with guns, but guns also protect people when law enforcement officers aren't able to be there. In the final analysis, one concern unites us all: Will allowing law abiding citizens to own guns save lives? Unfortunately, studies like those done by the Violence Policy Center needlessly scare people and don't move us any closer to answering that question. John R. Lott Jr. is the author of More Guns, Less Crime, which will be published by the University of Chicago Press in May. - --------------43E860102B83-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:35:32 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Mikey doesn't like guns Charles Hardy wrote: > > >From today's Tribune: > > ``It's a combination of things,'' Leavitt said. ``No law will > ultimately prevent that. But we ought to have the laws because if it > can prevent one [tragedy], it's worth it.'' > heh. Lessee...if it prevents just one case of whirling disease.... How bout: "If it prevents just one rape, or murder on campus, our policy of encouraging women to carry hi-cap Glocks will have been worth it!" Let's also ban public swimming pools, 'cos if it prevents just one drowning it will have been worth it. Oh, and let's ban pregnancy 'cos if it prevents just one miscarriage it will have been worth it. Don't forget Emergency Rooms: If it prevents just one death due to mis-applied medication, it will have been worth it. Hurl. And this guy's gonna get re-elected.... - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:53:25 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: [Fwd: Shortish op-ed on concealed carry] Received: from ns.phbtsus.com by toro.phbtsus.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA15858; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:41:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from ssiinc.com by ns.phbtsus.com with SMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.9 $/16.2) id AA0547851609; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:25:13 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by wanderer.ssi (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA07162; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:34:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "wanderer.ssiinc.com" via SMTP by localhost, id smtpdAAAa001jl; Tue Mar 3 19:33:56 1998 Message-Id: <46732D63205@law1.law.ucla.edu> Errors-To: volokh@law.ucla.edu Reply-To: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Originator: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Sender: firearmsreg@ssiinc.com Precedence: bulk From: "Eugene Volokh" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Shortish op-ed on concealed carry X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Reposted with permission. I suspect those on this list already know most of the facts chronicled here, but I thought it might still be useful for those who like to forward these sorts of things. - ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date sent: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:56:47 -0500 To: darvon@halcyon.com, cright@flash.net From: Center Right Subject: CENTER-RIGHT Issue 1, March 2, 1998 CENTER-RIGHT, a free weeklyish e-newsletter of centrist, conservative, and libertarian ideas Issue 1, March 2, 1998 Over 1100 subscribers PLEASE FEEL FREE TO FORWARD THIS to anyone you think might be interested. Subscription and unsubscription instructions at the bottom. ================================================================= No Smoking Guns: Answering Objections to Right-to-Carry Laws [1100 words] National Center for Policy Analysis, Brief Analysis No. 246 (by Morgan Reynolds & H. Sterling Burnett): Since 1986 the number of states in which it is legal to carry concealed weapons has grown from nine to 31, representing 49 percent of the country's population. Should we feel safer? Opponents of right-to-carry laws predicted a sharp decline in public safety because minor incidents would escalate into killings and more children would be victimized by more guns in irresponsible hands. Further, critics claimed that criminals would be undeterred by any increase in armed citizens. Indeed, they claimed that right-to-carry laws would increase crime rather than deter it. Experience has proven them wrong. What objections do the critics offer? Objection #1: Citizens are safe enough without handguns. Criminals commit 10 million violent and 30 million property crimes a year. Hospital emergency rooms treat an estimated 1.4 million people a year for injuries inflicted in violent attacks, according to a recent Department of Justice study. Since the U.S. Supreme Court and lower courts have held that the police are not obligated to protect individuals from crime, citizens are ultimately responsible for their own defense. Carrying a handgun allows millions to effectively provide for their own protection. Objection #2: Concealed weapons do not deter crime. In choosing their crimes, criminals weigh the prospective costs against the benefits. If criminals suspect that the costs will be too high, they are less likely to commit a crime. The possibility of a concealed weapon tilts the odds against the criminal and in favor of the victim. A survey of 1,847 felons in 10 states found them more concerned about meeting an armed victim than running into the police. Their concern is well founded. Victims use handguns an estimated 1.9 million times each year in self-defense against an attack by another person, according to a survey conducted by Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck. Studies have found that robbery and rape victims who resist with a gun cut the risks of injury in half. Moreover, a study by economists John Lott and David Mustard of the University of Chicago, published in the January 1997 Journal of Legal Studies, examined the impact of concealed carry permits. Using data from all 3,054 U.S. counties between 1977 and 1992, the study found that: * Concealed handgun laws reduced murder by 8.5 percent, rape by 5 percent and severe assault by 7 percent. * Had right-to-carry prevailed throughout the country, 1,600 fewer murders, 4,200 fewer rapes and 60,000 fewer severe assaults would have occurred during those 15 years. In addition, the deterrent effect of concealed handgun laws proved highest in counties with high crime rates. For example, FBI statistics showed that in counties with populations of more than 200,000 (typically the counties with the highest rates of violent crime), laws allowing concealed carry produced a 13 percent drop in the murder rate and a 7 percent decline in rapes. Case Study: Vermont. Vermont has long had the least restrictive firearms carry laws, allowing citizens to carry guns either openly or concealed without any permit. Vermont also has maintained one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. For example: * In 1980, when murders and robberies in the U.S. had soared to an average of 10 and 251 per 100,000 population, respectively, Vermont's murder rate was 22 percent of the national rate and its robbery rate was 15 percent. * In 1996 Vermont's rates remained among the lowest in the country at 25 percent of the national rate for homicide and 8 percent for robbery. Objection #3: Right-to-carry laws boost killings on impulse. Widespread gun availability was supposed to lead to a "wild- west" mentality with more shootings and deaths as people vented their anger with pistols instead of fists. Yet FBI data show that, as a share of all homicides, killings that resulted from arguments declined. In addition: * Dade County, Fla., kept meticulous records for six years, and of 21,000 permit holders, none was known to have injured an innocent person. * Since Virginia passed a right-to-carry law, more than 50,000 permits have been issued, not one permit holder has been convicted of a crime and violent crime has dropped. Moreover, those who have broken the rules have lost their privilege to carry a gun. * Texas has revoked or suspended nearly 300 permits for minor violations like failure to conceal or carrying a gun in a bar. * Between 1987 and 1995, Florida issued nearly 300,000 permits, but revoked only 19 because the permit holder had committed a crime. That's one crime per 14,000 permit holders during a nine-year period, an incredibly low rate compared to a criminal arrest rate of one per 14 Americans age 15 and older each year. Objection #4: Concealed carry puts guns in untrained hands. Before issuing a concealed carry permit, most states require that the applicant prove he or she has been thoroughly trained, with: * 10 to 15 hours emphasizing conflict resolution. * A pre-test and a final test covering the laws of self- defense and the consequences of misuse of deadly force. * A stress on gun safety in the classroom and on the firing range. * A stringent shooting accuracy test which applicants must pass each time they renew their permit. Of course, a person who has only a split second to decide whether to use deadly force can make a mistake. However, only about 30 such mistaken civilian shootings occur nationwide each year. The police kill in error three times as often. Objection #5: Concealed carry increases accidental gun deaths. The Lott-Mustard study found no increase in accidental shootings in counties with "shall issue" right-to-carry laws, where authorities have to issue the permit to all who meet the criteria. Nor have other studies. Nationally, there are about 1,400 accidental firearms deaths each year -- far fewer than the number of deaths attributable to medical errors or automobile accidents. The national death rate from firearms has declined even while firearm ownership has almost doubled in the last 20 years (figure at http://www.ncpa.org/ba/gif/firearms.gif), and 22 more states have liberalized right-to-carry laws: * The fatal firearm accident rate has declined to about .5 per 100,000 people -- a decrease of more than 19 percent in the last decade. * The number of fatal firearms-related accidents among children fell to an all-time low of 185 in 1994, a 64 percent decline since 1975. Conclusion. Concealed carry laws have not contributed to a big increase in gun ownership. Nor has allowing citizens the right to carry firearms for self-protection led to the negative consequences claimed by critics. In fact, these laws have lowered violent crime rates and increased the general level of knowledge concerning the rights, responsibilities and laws of firearm ownership. Putting unarmed citizens at the mercy of armed and violent criminals was never a good idea. Now that the evidence is in, we know that concealed carry is a social good. This Brief Analysis was prepared by Morgan Reynolds, Director of the NCPA Criminal Justice Center, and H. Sterling Burnett, Policy Analyst with the NCPA. Original document is on the Web at http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba246.html ================================================================= More on this topic: "Myths About Gun Control," also co-written by Morgan Reynolds of the NCPA, http://www.ncpa.org/studies/s176/s176.html NRA Web site, http://www.nra.org Handgun Control, Inc. Web site, http://www.handguncontrol.org (temporarily down when checked on Thursday, February 26). Second Amendment law library, http://www.2ndlawlib.org "The Commonplace Second Amendment," a law review article by your humble editor, forthcoming in the NYU Law Review, http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/volokh/common.htm ================================================================= This list is edited by Eugene Volokh, who teaches constitutional law and copyright law at UCLA Law School (http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/volokh), and organized with the help of Terry Wynn and the Federalist Society. 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