From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #56 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Thursday, May 14 1998 Volume 02 : Number 056 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:40:49 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Payback time for ALL gunowners! (Time to dump Cunneen) -Forwarded Received: from fs1.mainstream.net ([206.97.102.4]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 11 May 1998 17:22:07 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA12853; Mon, 11 May 1998 19:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma012766; Mon May 11 19:18:54 1998 Message-Id: <3557798C.77268C10@ix.netcom.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: cyrano@ix.netcom.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Cyrano To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Payback time for ALL gunowners! (Time to dump Cunneen) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Is your freedom worth $5? How about $10 or $20? Do you believe in your right to defend your family from violent criminals? Do you believe we should punish violent criminals instead of law-abiding gun owners? If you answered =93yes=94 to these questions, your help is urgently needed. During the next few weeks, gun owners have a unique opportunity to teach the anti-gunners an important lesson, to remind the Republican party it cannot ignore gun owners, and to punish a turncoat Republican who stabbed us in the back. Here's what it's all about: In the 1997 session, the California Legislature nearly passed AB 23, the onerous =93Assault Weapons Ban=94 wh= ich would have significantly infringed on our inalienable right to self defense. Thanks to the heroic efforts of the NRA Members Councils, Gun Owners of California, Gun Owners of America and the NRA, this bill was narrowly defeated. But that wasn't the end of it. AB 23 is back, and worse than ever. Any handgun which can =93accept=94 a magazine with a capacity of 19 or more rounds would be an =93assault weapon.=94 Of course, virtually any semi-au= to handgun meets this definition. Assemblyman Jim Cunneen (24th Assembly District, Santa Clara) voted in favor of AB 23 each time. He's a Republican. He's supposed to understand the Constitution and be on our side. However, despite intense pressure brought to bear by pro-Second Amendment activists, Assemblyman Cunneen has steadfastly opposed our right to self defense. Here's the good news: Mr. Cunneen is running for re-election next month. Here's the better news: Donna Courtwright, his opponent, is a staunch Second Amendment supporter who regularly attends her local Member's Council meetings. The plan is for gunowners from the whole country to knock Mr. Cunneen out of the race in the primary stage. Remember the old saying: As California goes, so goes the nation. If we do this, it will get state and national attention. There are two simple steps: (1) make a financial donation (as much as you can spare) to Donna Courtwright and (2) send a photocopy of your donation to Mr. Cunneen. Please be sure to indicate your name, address, occupation and employer when you make a donation. Here are the addresses: Donna Courtwright 2464 El Camino Real, Suite 34 Santa Clara, CA 95051 (408) 378-1908 Assemblyman Jim Cunneen 901 Campisi Way, #300 Campbell, CA 95008 (408) 369-8170 - -- Steve Silver - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:32:52 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: What I wrote vs. what they print - WASHINGTON POST -Forwarded Received: from fs1.mainstream.net ([206.97.102.4]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 11 May 1998 06:16:23 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id IAA19107; Mon, 11 May 1998 08:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma019031; Mon May 11 08:13:29 1998 Message-Id: <8d1f2c06.35562180@aol.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: EdgarSuter@aol.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: EdgarSuter To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: What I wrote vs. what they print - WASHINGTON POST X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list WHAT THEY PRINT: LET'S SEE IF I GOT BOB THOMPSON'S scorecard correct. The heroic public health researchers: Brian Wiersema is a "soft-spoken man, tall and handsome in a Clark Kent-ish way." Arthur Kellermann "speaks with a warm drawl," while Mark Rosenberg "cracks a tiny smile." The merchants of death: Gary Kleck is "scornful" and "angry." Paul Blackman uses information for "rhetorical escalation." Don B. Kates Jr. "has muddied the waters of truth so thoroughly that wading into them is a daunting task." My scorecard reads a bit differently. My articles in the peer-reviewed medical literature notedmany invalidating errors in the methodology and interpretation in Kellermann's research. Is it any wonder that the nation turns to the Internet to avoid your transparent propaganda? Is there really any doubt who has muddied the waters of truth? EDGAR A. SUTER WHAT I WROTE: Subject: letter re TRIGGER POINT Date: 3/30/98 09:37 To: 20071@washpost.com Dear Editor, Let's see if I got Trigger Point's (Bob Thompson, Sunday, March 29, 1998; Page W12) scorecard correct. The heroic public health researchers: Wiersema is a "soft-spoken man, tall and handsome in a Clark Kent-ish way." Teret "talks," Wiersema "says," Cook "works," Wintemute "seeks," Christoffel "creates, " and Kellermann "discovers" and "speaks with a warm drawl" while Rosenberg "evangelizes" while he "cracks a smile." Public health is a "can-do culture" doing "sophisticated data collection." The merchants of death: Gun rights advocates "howl." Kleck is "scornful" and "angry" while his research is "deployed" A "rumpled" Blackman "stockpiles information" for "rhetorical escalation." Kates "damns the many for the sins of the few" and "displays no trace of embarrassment over his own relationship with the gun lobby" and has "has muddied the waters of truth so thoroughly that wading into them is a daunting task." I "crow" that Congress unfunded CDC's incompetent and politicized research and I am the guy who reached for my pistol because 3 innocent lads were "coming at [me]." My scorecard reads a bit differently. As I explicitly told your reporter, I was attacked by 3 gang-bangers who demanded money as they tried to pin me against a brick wall before I reached for my pistol. My first article in the peer-reviewed medical literature noted four dozen substantive invalidating errors in the methodology and interpretation in Kellermann's "peer reviewed" research. My subsequent articles and publications have also noted Kellermann's habitual pattern of false and fabricated citations and, "embarrassment" or not, his membership in Christoffel's radical gun prohibition group, a group so radical that, in response to a discussion of Hemenway's flawed and biased methodology in a "peer reviewed" article, exhorted her associates not to engage in scientific discourse, but to "dig up some dirt" on our think tank. "Handsome" Wiersema is the guy who, in the face of Washington DC's tripled homicide rate, published "peer reviewed" articles that pretended DC's gun freeze had reduced homicide and, in attempting to portray concealed handgun licensing (like mine) as dangerous, "studied" a couple of Florida cities in which homicide rates increased while ignoring dramatic statewide homicide rate reductions. Honesty fares no better in the hands of the rest of the prohibitionist "usual suspects," but space limitations intrude. Is it any wonder that the nation turns to the internet to avoid your transparent and amusing propaganda? Is there really any doubt who "has muddied the waters of truth so thoroughly that wading into them is a daunting task"? Still "crowing," Edgar A. Suter MD National Chair Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research Inc. 5201 Norris Canton Rd. #220 San Ramon CA 94583 - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:55:49 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [byron@code-co.com: Proposed Court Rules] THis may be of interest to somebody here. - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- X-Sender: byron@code-co.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:37:33 -0600 To: users@code-co.com From: Byron Harward Subject: Proposed Court Rules Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Length: 1475 Code-Co's INTERNET ACCESS TO UTAH LAW Update ============================================ TOPIC: Changes to Utah Court Rules The Administrative Office of the Courts requests comments on proposed amendments to various Utah Court Rules. Changes are being proposed to the following sets of rules: Utah Rules of Civil Procedure Utah Rules of Appellate Procedure Utah Rules of Evidence Code of Judicial Administration Rules of Professional Conduct Rules of Lawyer Discipline and Disability The comment period runs from now until July 6, 1998. You can see exactly what is being changed (no subscription required) by clicking on the 'Proposed Rule Amendments' link on this page: http://www.code-co.com/utah/court Hope you find this useful. Byron Harward Webmaster Code-Co Law Publishers 1-800-255-5294 byron@code-co.com You received this update either because you are as subscriber to our service or you registered for updates and a free password on our webpage. If you are not a subscriber and wish not to receive these messages, please reply to the message with "remove from updates" in the SUBJECT LINE. You will receive an automatic acknowledgment that your request was received and we will remove you from the list. Please feel free to use our 800 number to reach us with any problems. If you know others that would like to receive these updates, please have them register on the web at: http://www.code-co.com/utah/regut.htm or email me directly. - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:59:18 -0600 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Excellent piece on McCarthy and guns This was forwarded to me by Howard Last of NY. >Subject: Excellent piece on McCarthy and guns > >Opinion in Newsday on McCarthy. > >Howard Last > [begin your Research] > >Taking Up Arms Against Rep. McCarthy > >Matthew Carolan; Raymond J. Keating. Matthew Carolan is executive >editor at National Review. Raymond J. Keating is chief economist for >the Small Business Survival Committee. > >IF THE recent flap between Charlton Heston and Barbra Streisand over >"The Long Island Incident," says anything, it says that even Ben Hur >would be hard pressed to defeat Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-Mineola) this >fall. The suffering she endured in the Long Island Rail Road massacre >has even her most ardent opponents at the National Rifle Association >walking on eggshells when criticizing her legislative responses to her >tragedy. Yet unless criticisms are made, McCarthy's re-election >campaign, to the chagrin of many, will be a sequel. > Local Republicans, including Assem. Greg Becker (R-Lynbrook), >McCarthy's likely opponent, cannot win a popularity contest or a debate >about constituent service. McCarthy still enjoys too much good will for >that. Becker has no choice but to address McCarthy's image and take >advantage of his opportunities. Politics is about defining your >opponent. > For example, McCarthy's voting record shows she is liberal. She has >an 80 percent rating from the leftist Americans for Democratic Action >and a 16 percent rating from the American Conservative Union, based on >her support for the National Endowment for the Arts, for cuts in the >military budget, and voting against school choice and parental >notification in family planning matters, etc. She is also, as >Streisand's film demonstrated, a darling of the liberal media. The >film's fictitious elements - i.e., distorting Second Amendment history > - were defended in some quarters as necessary "propaganda" to combat >the evil NRA. > That leads to the issue of guns. McCarthy made her name by >attacking predecessor Rep. Dan Frisa's vote against the federal ban on >so-called "assault weapons," and she continues to demonize the NRA after >tragedies like those at the observation deck of the Empire State >Building and in Jonesboro, Ark. But making law in response to tragedies >perpetrated by disturbed people is legislating by hard case, which is >ineffective. No piecemeal legislation can prevent such tragedies, only >a total ban on guns. That in turn leads to dangers of tyranny foreseen >by the founding fathers - and carried out by this century's madmen who >killed millions of people. > Liberal antigun activists write bad laws the same way they try to >reform health care, with an eye toward failure so as to whip the >populace into accepting stronger, more restrictive legislation. The >"assault weapon" about which McCarthy claims such outrage is a case in >point. Contrary to popular belief, it is not an automatic weapon like a >machine gun, and as a class is not significant in crime. The class is >based entirely on what the gun looks like, not how it shoots. The ban >has proved a triumph of symbolism over substance, and a failure, which >only harasses law-abiding gun owners. > Becker must raise these and other aspects of the gun issue because >McCarthy surely will. If he is to defeat this "national icon," he has to >become a national leader on this and other issues, including the very >nature of federal law itself, which cannot always be written, as >McCarthy says, "for the children." It makes - for him - a >tremendous burden, but also a tremendous opportunity. > A final word about children. McCarthy voted against the >partial-birth abortion ban, despite the protestations of the American >Medical Association that it was medically unnecessary. She told The New >York Times Sunday Magazine that her decision was tearful. But in the >end, it all came back to the same thing, the Carolyn McCarthy myth: "I >started to think about gun violence," she said. Her support for abortion >was about "backing" mothers, thereby stopping the "cycle of violence, >which contributes to child abuse, and all the other things that go with >it." > As the Times reporter noted, for Carolyn McCarthy, "everything comes >back to guns" - even defending the violence of abortion. Greg Becker, >take heed. > >Copyright 1998, Newsday Inc. > >Taking Up Arms Against Rep. McCarthy., pp A34. > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:46:43 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Administrative rules committee review of State Hospital Gun ban I submitted a comment to the State Mental Hospital during their comment period on their proposed total gun ban in which I protested the rule and asked to be kept informed of hearings, etc on the topic. Becuase of that I just received a phone call from an Art Hunsaker on the staff of the Legislative Administrative Rules Review Committee. The Committee will be meeting next Monday, the 18th, at 9:00 am, State Capital Room 305, to review this proposed rule and take public comment. This is the first item on the agenda after approval of prior meeting's minutes. I encourage as many of you as possible to be at the meeting to provide the law-abiding-gun-owners' perspective. Bear in mind that this is the same committee that could review Gov. Mikey's public employee gun ban and overturn it. This could be a good warm-up session for getting to know legislators, process, etc. Sen Stephenson chairs this committee. Once again: Monday, May 18th, 9:00am State Capital, Room 305. Get there early to get a good seat. - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:45:41 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: It's a free market! -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA17605; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma017367; Wed May 13 12:25:08 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980513162420.008d35a8@inet.skillnet.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: It's a free market! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list ORLANDO, Fla. (Reuters) - A gun-swap organized by an Orlando radio station nearly misfired Wednesday when local bad guys offered cash instead of sneakers to youths turning in their firearms. Russ Rollins, host of the Russ & Bo Show on WTKS-FM, persuaded local stores and athletes to donate high-priced sports shoes for the "Kicks for Guns" swap. Kicks is a slang word for the shoes. "This was a pretty relaxed afternoon until we heard people were trying to buy the guns," Orlando Police Chief Will Kennedy told Reuters. Individuals set up shop a block away and were offering kids cash instead of sneakers for their guns. "They were all over me," said 14-year-old Shawn, showing off the .38 caliber revolver he was about to hand over to police at the Florida Citrus Bowl. "One guy wanted to give me $50. Then another guy said $70. Then another guy said $80." - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:56:50 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Excellent piece on McCarthy and guns -Forwarded -Forwarded Received: from WVC-Message_Server by wp.ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 May 1998 17:01:42 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:57:58 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS To: dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us Subject: Excellent piece on McCarthy and guns -Forwarded Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yZJKt-0003lT-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 11:59:31 -0600 Received: from (mail.xmission.com) [198.60.22.22] by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yZJKq-0003lI-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 11:59:28 -0600 Received: from (mars.aros.net) [207.173.16.20] by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yZJKo-0000TG-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 11:59:26 -0600 Received: from sarahtho (dm7-31.slc.aros.net [207.173.24.80]) by mars.aros.net (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA10562 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 11:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980512115918.00d69c40@aros.net> X-Sender: righter@aros.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:59:18 -0600 To: utah-firearms@xmission.com From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Excellent piece on McCarthy and guns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com This was forwarded to me by Howard Last of NY. >Subject: Excellent piece on McCarthy and guns > >Opinion in Newsday on McCarthy. > >Howard Last > [begin your Research] > >Taking Up Arms Against Rep. McCarthy > >Matthew Carolan; Raymond J. Keating. Matthew Carolan is executive >editor at National Review. Raymond J. Keating is chief economist for >the Small Business Survival Committee. > >IF THE recent flap between Charlton Heston and Barbra Streisand over >"The Long Island Incident," says anything, it says that even Ben Hur >would be hard pressed to defeat Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-Mineola) this >fall. The suffering she endured in the Long Island Rail Road massacre >has even her most ardent opponents at the National Rifle Association >walking on eggshells when criticizing her legislative responses to her >tragedy. Yet unless criticisms are made, McCarthy's re-election >campaign, to the chagrin of many, will be a sequel. > Local Republicans, including Assem. Greg Becker (R-Lynbrook), >McCarthy's likely opponent, cannot win a popularity contest or a debate >about constituent service. McCarthy still enjoys too much good will for >that. Becker has no choice but to address McCarthy's image and take >advantage of his opportunities. Politics is about defining your >opponent. > For example, McCarthy's voting record shows she is liberal. She has >an 80 percent rating from the leftist Americans for Democratic Action >and a 16 percent rating from the American Conservative Union, based on >her support for the National Endowment for the Arts, for cuts in the >military budget, and voting against school choice and parental >notification in family planning matters, etc. She is also, as >Streisand's film demonstrated, a darling of the liberal media. The >film's fictitious elements - i.e., distorting Second Amendment history > - were defended in some quarters as necessary "propaganda" to combat >the evil NRA. > That leads to the issue of guns. McCarthy made her name by >attacking predecessor Rep. Dan Frisa's vote against the federal ban on >so-called "assault weapons," and she continues to demonize the NRA after >tragedies like those at the observation deck of the Empire State >Building and in Jonesboro, Ark. But making law in response to tragedies >perpetrated by disturbed people is legislating by hard case, which is >ineffective. No piecemeal legislation can prevent such tragedies, only >a total ban on guns. That in turn leads to dangers of tyranny foreseen >by the founding fathers - and carried out by this century's madmen who >killed millions of people. > Liberal antigun activists write bad laws the same way they try to >reform health care, with an eye toward failure so as to whip the >populace into accepting stronger, more restrictive legislation. The >"assault weapon" about which McCarthy claims such outrage is a case in >point. Contrary to popular belief, it is not an automatic weapon like a >machine gun, and as a class is not significant in crime. The class is >based entirely on what the gun looks like, not how it shoots. The ban >has proved a triumph of symbolism over substance, and a failure, which >only harasses law-abiding gun owners. > Becker must raise these and other aspects of the gun issue because >McCarthy surely will. If he is to defeat this "national icon," he has to >become a national leader on this and other issues, including the very >nature of federal law itself, which cannot always be written, as >McCarthy says, "for the children." It makes - for him - a >tremendous burden, but also a tremendous opportunity. > A final word about children. McCarthy voted against the >partial-birth abortion ban, despite the protestations of the American >Medical Association that it was medically unnecessary. She told The New >York Times Sunday Magazine that her decision was tearful. But in the >end, it all came back to the same thing, the Carolyn McCarthy myth: "I >started to think about gun violence," she said. Her support for abortion >was about "backing" mothers, thereby stopping the "cycle of violence, >which contributes to child abuse, and all the other things that go with >it." > As the Times reporter noted, for Carolyn McCarthy, "everything comes >back to guns" - even defending the violence of abortion. Greg Becker, >take heed. > >Copyright 1998, Newsday Inc. > >Taking Up Arms Against Rep. McCarthy., pp A34. > - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:57:42 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Administrative rules committee review of State Hospital Gun ban -Forwarded Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yZK4C-0006wK-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:46:20 -0600 Received: from (mail.xmission.com) [198.60.22.22] by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yZK4A-0006wF-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:46:18 -0600 Received: from (yoda.corp.es.com) [130.187.95.61] by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yZK48-0004Z8-00; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:46:17 -0600 Received: by yoda.corp.es.com (8.6.10/e&s/sunos/client/5.1) id MAA22923; Tue, 12 May 1998 12:46:43 -0600 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:46:43 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Message-Id: <199805121846.MAA22923@yoda.corp.es.com> Subject: Administrative rules committee review of State Hospital Gun ban Bcc: Sender: owner-utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com I submitted a comment to the State Mental Hospital during their comment period on their proposed total gun ban in which I protested the rule and asked to be kept informed of hearings, etc on the topic. Becuase of that I just received a phone call from an Art Hunsaker on the staff of the Legislative Administrative Rules Review Committee. The Committee will be meeting next Monday, the 18th, at 9:00 am, State Capital Room 305, to review this proposed rule and take public comment. This is the first item on the agenda after approval of prior meeting's minutes. I encourage as many of you as possible to be at the meeting to provide the law-abiding-gun-owners' perspective. Bear in mind that this is the same committee that could review Gov. Mikey's public employee gun ban and overturn it. This could be a good warm-up session for getting to know legislators, process, etc. Sen Stephenson chairs this committee. Once again: Monday, May 18th, 9:00am State Capital, Room 305. Get there early to get a good seat. - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:07:34 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Fwd: Live by the Gun, Die by the Gun -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA10378; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma010155; Wed May 13 16:56:07 1998 Message-Id: <199805132040.PAA21906@monarch.papillion.ne.us> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: mriddle@monarch.papillion.ne.us Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Riddle" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fwd: Live by the Gun, Die by the Gun X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >Received: from aspensys.com (aspensys3.aspensys.com [198.77.70.84]) by monarch.papillion.ne.us (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA19682 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 11:46:00 -0500 (CDT) >Received: (qmail 17055 invoked by uid 221); 13 May 1998 16:43:03 - -0000 >Received: (qmail 16430 invoked by alias); 13 May 1998 16:39:02 - -0000 >Received: (qmail 16423 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 16:39:01 -0000 >Received: from srv1.aspensys.com (198.77.70.131) > by aspensys.aspensys.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 16:39:01 -0000 >Received: from proxy.ojp.usdoj.gov by srv1.aspensys.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) > id MAA03344; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:39:00 -0400 >Received: from ojp.usdoj.gov (ojpmail [10.121.16.126]) by proxy.ojp.usdoj.gov (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id MAA26808 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:27:39 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from GATEWAY-Message_Server by ojp.usdoj.gov > with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:37:37 -0400 >Message-Id: >Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:37:16 -0400 >Reply-To: juvjust@aspensys.aspensys.com >Sender: owner-juvjust@aspensys.aspensys.com >Precedence: first-class >From: Earl Appleby >To: juvjust@ncjrs.org >Subject: Live by the Gun, Die by the Gun >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-Disposition: inline >X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >From the Administrator The deadly mix of kids and guns continues to take its toll on the lives of our youth, their families, and communities. "Live by the Gun, Die by the Gun" will premiere the week of May 16 on Public Broadcasting System (PBS) stations across the Nation. The PBS program will examine why kids are carrying guns in cities and small towns, their devastating impact, resolving conflict peacefully, coping with losing a loved one to gun violence, and how teens are taking action to get guns out of their communities. The special will air on In the Mix, a national PBS weekly series for teens, and will be hosted by actor Billy Baldwin, rap artist Chuck D, and In Mix reporter Andrea Barrow. "Live by the Gun, Die by the Gun" profiles teen ex-gang members in Los Angeles who carried a gun and were seriously injured in gun violence incidents. These same teens are now part of Teens on Target, a program where they are trained to go into schools and conduct workshops with students to show the real effects of gun violence and to change their attitudes. Next, In the Mix travels to the suburbs of New York to look at kids carrying guns outside of the city. In the Mix sees the pain of losing a loved one to gun violence through the eyes of Victor who lost his cousin during the production of this In the Mix special. Victor, who used to carry a gun, talks about the anger he feels following his cousin's death. Barrow, whose friend died of a gunshot wound, sits in on a coping session with a social worker and other teens who are dealing with losing a loved one to gun violence. Later, In the Mix follows them to The Door Youth Center for a performance of "Free Floating Anger," a scene on gun violence, followed by a discussion in which teens speak out on self defense, hanging out with the wrong crowd, and how to walk away from a fight. In the Mix, then, travels to Washington, DC, to catch up with Sarah Brady, Chair of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. She points out ways teens can get involved to help pass antigun legislation and urges them to raise awareness among adults. An In the Mix montage highlights programs where teens have worked to reduce gun violence in their communities. Please check the listings for your local PBS station for the time and date "Live by the Gun, Die by the Gun" may air in your area. Further information about the program and related resources, including a free Discussion Guide, is available from the PBS Web site at http://www.pbs.org/wnet/mix. The site also provides information about the In the Mix Gun Violence Prevention Contest. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:18:06 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Party Resolutions Some of the folks very involved in the creation of the resolutions presented at the late Republican State Convention have informed me that the POWERS THAT BE have decided to re-write the resolutions passed at that convention by forming an ad hoc committee during a meeting of the Republican State Central Committee. The meeting will occur at 10:00 AM in Room 303 at the State Kapital. Mssrs. Bishop, Hatch, Leavitt et al feel that the resolutions will not stand and will not become party dogma. The resolution people are organizing a gathering of resolution stakeholders to express indignation at the Central Committee meeting and will gather about 15 minutes before (9:45 AM) outside the meeting room (Rm. 303). - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:41:35 -0600 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Re: Party Resolutions At 01:18 PM 5/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >Some of the folks very involved in the creation of the resolutions >presented at the late Republican State Convention have informed me that >the POWERS THAT BE have decided to re-write the resolutions passed >at that convention by forming an ad hoc committee during a meeting of >the Republican State Central Committee. The meeting will occur at 10:00 >AM in Room 303 at the State Kapital. Mssrs. Bishop, Hatch, Leavitt et al >feel that the resolutions will not stand and will not become party dogma. >The resolution people are organizing a gathering of resolution >stakeholders to express indignation at the Central Committee meeting and >will gather about 15 minutes before (9:45 AM) outside the meeting room >(Rm. 303). Thanks for the info. But what DAY is this meeting being held? If it's Monday, I'll be there, assuming the Legislative Rules Committee is finished discussing the Utah State Hospital gun ban by 9:45 or 10. Sarah - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:04:23 -0600 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Utah State Hospital Gun Ban hearing Charles Hardy previously posted the following, so I'll just repeat it: (Thanks, Charles!) >I submitted a comment to the State Mental Hospital during their >comment period on their proposed total gun ban in which I protested >the rule and asked to be kept informed of hearings, etc on the topic. > >Becuase of that I just received a phone call from an Art Hunsaker on >the staff of the Legislative Administrative Rules Review Committee. >The Committee will be meeting next Monday, the 18th, at 9:00 am, State >Capital Room 305, to review this proposed rule and take public >comment. This is the first item on the agenda after approval of prior >meeting's minutes. I encourage as many of you as possible to be at >the meeting to provide the law-abiding-gun-owners' perspective. > >Bear in mind that this is the same committee that could review >Gov. Mikey's public employee gun ban and overturn it. This could be a >good warm-up session for getting to know legislators, process, etc. >Sen Stephenson chairs this committee. > >Once again: > >Monday, May 18th, 9:00am >State Capital, Room 305. > >Get there early to get a good seat. After some further research, I've found out two other things of which we should be aware. 1) The rules committee focuses ONLY on whether a rule conforms with state law. Therefore any testimony should address the reasons why this rule violates state law. There is no need to get into any other issues, such as the evidence that concealed carry decreases violent crime. 2) Any group may propose a rule change, and the committee must consider and hold hearings on such a proposed rule change. So if you belong to a group which is legitimately concerned with this issue, encourage the group to submit a proposal that protects the rights of law-abiding gun owners. I believe the proposals should be sent to the same address as comments, but I need to check on that for sure. That address is: Danette Faretta-Brady Human Services Mental Health, State Hospital 1300 East Center Street PO Box 270 Provo, UT 84606 (801) 344-4217 (801) 344-4291-fax The sections of Utah Code that deal with this issue are: 76-8-311.1, 76-8-311.3 Hope this is of some help! Sarah (for myself) Sarah Thompson, M.D. http://www.therighter.com GO JAZZ!!!! - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:19:50 -0600 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Federal Agents gain "right" to murder innocent citizens! "I was just following orders." Does this sound familiar? [home page] [Image] Top News Charge in Ruby Ridge Case Dismissed Sports BOISE, Idaho (AP) -- A federal judge today dismissed state involuntary manslaughter charges against FBI Lotteries sharpshooter Lon Horiuchi, who killed the wife of white separatist Randy Weaver during the 1992 siege International at Ruby Ridge, Idaho. National U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge accepted the Justice Department argument that Horiuchi was acting in the Washington line of duty when he fired and was protected by the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution, in that he Business was working within the scope of his job. Wall Street Boundary County Prosecutor Denise Woodbury charged Horiuchi last August with firing the shot that went Entertainment through the cabin door and killed Vicki Weaver as she held her baby daughter. Health/Science It was the third death in the 11-day standoff that Regional began when federal marshals maneuvering around the isolated mountain cabin trying to arrest Weaver on a gun charge encountered Weaver's son, Samuel, and his dog. An exchange of gunfire left the 14-year-old boy and Deputy Marshal William Degan dead. Woodbury maintained Horiuchi acted negligently. Horiuchi contended throughout that he was following the procedures set out for dealing with the Ruby Ridge confrontation. ``I think it's a travesty the people of Idaho can't have their day in court with Lon Horiuchi because he's a federal agent,''said Chuck Peterson, one of the attorney's who represented Weaver during the criminal case against him five years ago. ``That seems absurd,'' Peterson said. ``This clearly isn't a vindication of Horiuchi. It's like the Simpson verdict. We all knew he did it. There's just nothing we can do about it.'' Woodbury did not immediately respond to a telephone call requesting comment. But Robert Huntley, the former Idaho Supreme Court justice who was one of the attorneys representing Horiuchi, speculated that an appeal was unlikely. ``I would be surprised if there was anyone who would want to put up the money for an appeal because the judge wrote a very carefully thought-out opinion based on factual circumstances,'' Huntley said. Weaver, who is now living in Montana and writing a book about the incident, and associate Kevin Harris were acquitted of all federal charges, including murder, resulting from the siege. A state charge of murder against Harris filed last August was dismissed under the double jeopardy protection. Another Horiuchi attorney, Patricia Maher, maintained the agent fired with the understanding that Harris was holding a rifle outside the cabin, that Harris was a suspect in Degan's killing and that Harris might open fire on an FBI helicopter that was circling overhead at the time. And the fact that he was charged with involuntary manslaughter meant he acted without malice, she said. The U.S. Justice Department decided in 1994 against prosecuting Horiuchi, or any of his FBI superiors and reaffirmed the decision last year. Larry Potts, once the FBI's No. 2 official, and his chief aide, Danny Coulson, were accused of destroying records to cover up the identity of the official that allowed agents to shoot at any adult male seen outside the Weaver cabin. Potts was suspended and ultimately denied the bureau's No. 2 job. E. Michael Kahoe, former chief of the violent crimes section, was sentenced to 18 months in prison for destroying a report criticizing the bureau's role in the shootout. A $10 million lawsuit filed by Harris against the federal government is pending. Weaver filed a similar lawsuit, which last year resulted in a $3.1 million settlement. =03AP-NY-05-14-98 1559EDT Copyright =A9 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Home | Top of Page 05/14 NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #56 **********************************