From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #128 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Wednesday, February 24 1999 Volume 02 : Number 128 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 20:46:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: NAACP May Sue Gun Makers - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:59:30 -0500 From: Mark A. Smith Subject: NAACP May Sue Gun Makers If you think it's getting ridiculous these days, add this to your list. Mark NAACP May Sue Gun Makers c The Associated Press By PAUL SHEPARD WASHINGTON (AP) -- Since gun-related crimes hit minority communities at high rates across the country, the NAACP is considering joining the growing number of cities filing lawsuits against gun makers, NAACP president Kweisi Mfume said. "We represent a significant constituency that is disproportionately affected by gun violence. The time has come for us to look at the proliferation of handguns," Mfume said at the association's annual meeting Saturday. Mfume said he would present to the NAACP's 64-member Board of Directors several options, ranging from issuing a resolution that voices concern about guns to joining suits that filed by cities including Chicago and New Orleans. The NAACP also could file a separate suit, he said. "I want to put forth some legal theories we've been presented and ask the board for its consideration," Mfume said. Curtailing gun violence was among several issues presented at the 90th annual meeting of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. In speeches to the 200 branch leaders and members from NAACP branches around the country, Mfume and NAACP Board Chairman Julian Bond outlined an energetic campaign for the nation's oldest and largest civil rights group to combat racism, save affirmative action, register voters and work against police brutality. "Despite 90 years of fighting for and sometimes dying for justice and fair play, we know that all is not well in the land in which we live," Bond said. NAACP scrutiny of the gun industry could lend additional momentum to recent movements against the industry. In a landmark ruling this month, gun makers were found liable for shootings in a case closely followed by cities across the nation eager to make the firearms industry pay for gun-related violence. A federal jury in New York returned a $4 million verdict based upon a new strategy by plaintiffs -- that the industry's negligence in marketing and distribution allowed weapons to flow illegally to states with strict anti-gun laws. As with massive tobacco litigation that pressured cigarette companies to pay for treating sick smokers, the cities want to force gun makers to pay the costs of treating shooting victims. Chicago, New Orleans, Bridgeport, Conn., and Miami-Dade County are suing the industry. Pro-gun groups have fired back by lobbying state legislatures to pass laws prohibiting such suits. Georgia approved such a law and derailed the efforts of Atlanta officials to file suit against the firearms industry. Bond, in his report on the overall health of the organization, said the fiscal picture was rosy but corrected figures he gave earlier in the week of the increase in foundation and corporate donations over the past year. Both corporate and foundation giving is up from $3.2 million to $3.4 million and not the 40 to 50 percent which Bond had told reporters earlier. "I'm not a mathematician," Bond said. "I misinterpreted some figures I had." NAACP revenues outstripped its expenses by $1,160,469 last year. AP-NY-02-20-99 1601EST Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 20:46:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Citizens Self Defense Act of 1999 - --------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:26:48 -0500 From: Mark A. Smith http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c106:5:./temp/~c106sMQada:: Bill 5 of 10 Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 1999 (Introduced in the House) HR 347 IH 106th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 347 To protect the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES January 19, 1999 Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To protect the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 1999'. SEC. 2. FINDINGS. The Congress finds the following: (1) Police cannot protect, and are not legally liable for failing to protect, individual citizens, as evidenced by the following: (A) The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect individuals, only the public in general. For example, in Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: `[C]ourts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community.'. (B) Former Florida Attorney General Jim Smith told Florida legislators that police responded to only 200,000 of 700,000 calls for help to Dade County authorities. (C) The United States Department of Justice found that, in 1989, there were 168,881 crimes of violence for which police had not responded within 1 hour. (D) Currently, there are about 150,000 police officers on duty at any one time. (2) Citizens frequently must use firearms to defend themselves, as evidenced by the following: (A) Every year, more than 2,400,000 people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals--or more than 6,500 people a day. This means that, each year, firearms are used 60 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. (B) Of the 2,400,000 self-defense cases, more than 192,000 are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse. (C) Of the 2,400,000 times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, 92 percent merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8 percent of the time, does a citizen kill or wound his or her attacker. (3) Law-abiding citizens, seeking only to provide for their families' defense, are routinely prosecuted for brandishing or using a firearm in self-defense. For example: (A) In 1986, Don Bennett of Oak Park, Illinois, was shot at by 2 men who had just stolen $1,200 in cash and jewelry from his suburban Chicago service station. The police arrested Bennett for violating Oak Park's handgun ban. The police never caught the actual criminals. (B) Ronald Biggs, a resident of Goldsboro, North Carolina, was arrested for shooting an intruder in 1990. Four men broke into Biggs' residence one night, ransacked the home and then assaulted him with a baseball bat. When Biggs attempted to escape through the back door, the group chased him and Biggs turned and shot one of the assailants in the stomach. Biggs was arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon --a felony. His assailants were charged with misdemeanors. (C) Don Campbell of Port Huron, Michigan, was arrested, jailed, and criminally charged after he shot a criminal assailant in 1991. The thief had broken into Campbell's store and attacked him. The prosecutor plea-bargained with the assailant and planned to use him to testify against Campbell for felonious use of a firearm. Only after intense community pressure did the prosecutor finally drop the charges. (4) The courts have granted immunity from prosecution to police officers who use firearms in the line of duty. Similarly, law- abiding citizens who use firearms to protect themselves, their families, and their homes against violent felons should not be subject to lawsuits by the violent felons who sought to victimize them. SEC. 3. RIGHT TO OBTAIN FIREARMS FOR SECURITY, AND TO USE FIREARMS IN DEFENSE OF SELF, FAMILY, OR HOME; ENFORCEMENT. (a) REAFFIRMATION OF RIGHT- A person not prohibited from receiving a firearm by Section 922(g) of title 18, United States Code, shall have the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms-- (1) in defense of self or family against a reasonably perceived threat of imminent and unlawful infliction of serious bodily injury; (2) in defense of self or family in the course of the commission by another person of a violent felony against the person or a member of the person's family; and (3) in defense of the person's home in the course of the commission of a felony by another person. (b) FIREARM DEFINED- As used in subsection (a), the term `firearm' means-- (1) a shotgun (as defined in section 921(a)(5) of title 18, United States Code); (2) a rifle (as defined in section 921(a)(7) of title 18, United States Code); or (3) a handgun (as defined in section 10 of Public Law 99-408). (c) ENFORCEMENT OF RIGHT- (1) IN GENERAL- A person whose right under subsection (a) is violated in any manner may bring an action in any United States district court against the United States, any State, or any person for damages, injunctive relief, and such other relief as the court deems appropriate. (2) AUTHORITY TO AWARD A REASONABLE ATTORNEY'S FEE- In an action brought under paragraph (1), the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing plaintiff a reasonable attorney's fee as part of the costs. (3) STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS- An action may not be brought under paragraph (1) after the 5-year period that begins with the date the violation described in paragraph (1) is discovered. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 20:46:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: National Standard for Carrying Concealed Weapons - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:28:40 -0500 From: Mark A. Smith http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c106:2:./temp/~c106sMQada:: Bill 2 of 10 To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry certain concealed firearms in the State, and to exempt... (Introduced in the House) HR 492 IH 106th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 492 To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry certain concealed firearms in the State, and to exempt qualified current and former law enforcement officers from State laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed handguns. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES February 2, 1999 Mr. STEARNS (for himself, Mr. SMITH of Washington, Mr. HALL of Texas, Mr. BACHUS, Mr. HOLDEN, Mr. NETHERCUTT, Mr. YOUNG of Alaska, Mrs. EMERSON, Mr. HOSTETTLER, Mr. GREEN of Texas, Mr. CRAMER, Mr. COMBEST, Mr. RAHALL, and Mr. BARCIA) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry certain concealed firearms in the State, and to exempt qualified current and former law enforcement officers from State laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed handguns. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. NATIONAL STANDARD FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS BY NONRESIDENTS. (a) IN GENERAL- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926A the following: `Sec. 926B. National standard for the carrying of certain concealed firearms by nonresidents `(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm and is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued by a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm (other than a machinegun or destructive device) may carry in another State a concealed firearm (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b). `(b)(1) If such other State issues licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms, the person may carry a concealed firearm in the State under the same restrictions which apply to the carrying of a concealed firearm by a person to whom the State has issued such a license or permit. `(2) If such other State does not issue licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms, the person may not, in the State, carry a concealed firearm in a police station, in a public detention facility, in a courthouse, in a public polling place, at a meeting of a State, county, or municipal governing body, in a school, at a professional or school athletic event not related to firearms, in a portion of an establishment licensed by the State to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, or inside the sterile or passenger area of an airport, except to the extent expressly permitted by State law.'. (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926A the following: `926B. National standard for the carrying of certain concealed firearms by nonresidents.'. SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED CURRENT AND FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED HANDGUNS. (a) IN GENERAL- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926B, as added by section 1(a) of this Act, the following: `Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed handguns by qualified current and former law enforcement officers `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer or a qualified former law enforcement officer and who is carrying appropriate written identification of such status may carry a concealed handgun. `(b) As used in this section: `(1) The term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an officer, agent, or employee of a public agency who-- `(A) is a law enforcement officer; `(B) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm in the course of duty; `(C) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency; and `(D) meets such requirements as have been established by the agency with respect to firearms. `(2) The term `qualified former law enforcement officer' means an individual who-- `(A) retired from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental disability; `(B) immediately before such retirement, was a qualified law enforcement officer; `(C) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency; `(D) meets such requirements as have been established by the State in which the individual resides with respect to training in the use of firearms; and `(E) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm. `(3) The term `law enforcement officer' means an individual authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law, and includes corrections, probation, parole, and judicial officers. `(4) The term `appropriate written identification' means, with respect to an individual, a document which-- `(A) was issued to the individual by the public agency with which the individual serves or served as a law enforcement officer; and `(B) identifies the holder of the document as a current or former officer, agent, or employee of the agency.'. (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item added by section 1(b) of this Act the following: `926C. Carrying of concealed handguns by qualified current and former law enforcement officers.'. (c) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendments made by this section shall take effect 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 19:46:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: U.S. report links youth gun use, illegal transfers - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:25:48 -0500 From: Mark A. Smith Clinton is trying to tie gun manufacturers to illegal gun sales. It's just another angle to get everybody from being able to obtain a legal firearm. Mark http://www.freep.com/news/nw/qguns22.htm U.S. report links youth gun use, illegal transfers Clinton wants to expand tracing program February 22, 1999 BY SONYA ROSS Associated Press WASHINGTON -- The Clinton administration wants to bring more cities into a program that traces guns used by young people in crimes in light of a report that showed at least half the guns traced were passed on to them illegally after being bought from licensed dealers. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms released an analysis Sunday of its Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Initiative. The program traced 76,260 guns used in crimes by 18-to-24-year-olds in 27 cities including Detroit during the past three years. President Bill Clinton is asking Congress for money to pay for expanding the initiative. The bureau found that 51 percent of the traced guns were purchased from licensed dealers by people acting as intermediaries for the real owners; only 35 percent were stolen. The remainder came from private sellers. Treasury officials said semiautomatic pistols were the most commonly recovered weapon in each city, making up 52 percent of all trace requests. As a result of the traces, 397 people have been referred to state and federal courts during the past year for prosecution as gun traffickers, the report said. Denise Dunleavy, an attorney for seven families who won a $4-million negligence verdict against gun manufacturers in a Brooklyn, N.Y., court last week, said: "If the manufacturers took more rigorous precautions up front, you wouldn't have the guns being trafficked." The case, brought by a mother whose son was shot to death, is being watched by cities eager to sue manufacturers to recover costs from gun violence. Sunday's report, Dunleavy said, "proves our evidence was certainly on the right track." The report said 11.3 percent of the offenders involved were under 17 years old, and 32 percent were between 18 and 24. Thirty-one percent of the guns were used in drug offenses and 28 percent in assaults, 18 percent each in homicides and robberies. The report was the result of Clinton's 1996 directive for the Departments of Treasury and Justice to establish a program to identify and reduce illegal firearms supplies. The 27 cities in the report are Detroit; Atlanta; Baltimore; Birmingham, Ala.; Boston; Bridgeport, Conn.; Chicago; Cincinnati; Cleveland; Gary, Ind.; Houston; Inglewood, Calif.; Jersey City, N.J.; Los Angeles; Memphis, Tenn.; Miami; Milwaukee; Minneapolis; New York; Philadelphia; Richmond, Va.; Salinas, Calif.; San Antonio; St. Louis; Seattle; Tucson, Ariz.; and Washington. All content copyright 1999 Detroit Free Press and may not be republished without permission. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:36:10 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: JUST DO IT! (fwd) Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:38:19 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA10425; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:22:35 -0700 Received: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02544; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:31:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:31:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.net Reply-To: pwatson@utdallas.edu Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@mainstream.net Precedence: first-class From: Paul M Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: JUST DO IT! (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:29:47 -0700 From: "L. Neil Smith" To: lneil@ezlink.com Subject: JUST DO IT! Hi -- I'm taking a moment out of a very busy schedule to ask you to go = to the following web site: http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com/ ... and participate in the commentary going on there. As you may = know, the government wants to turn the country's banks and credit unions into spies, informing them about every transaction they regard as "too large" or "unusual". The excuse, of course, is the illegal and irrational War on Drugs. An early version of this proposal would eventually have outlawed any cash transaction larger than $100. I'm sure if they get away with what they want now, we'll be hearing about the $100 deal again. When I offered my comment, I observed that there isn't much bank privacy now, and that this idea takes things in the wrong direction. I proposed that the kind of relationship should exist between you and your bank that supposedly exists between you and your lawyer, clergyman, or doctor. I also proposed the abolition of all the agencies supporting this nonsense. I urge you to go back me up, or propose your own notions. =20 Give 'em hell! Neil - --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L. Neil Smith is the award-winning author of _THE PROBABILITY BROACH_,=20 _PALLAS_, _HENRY MARTYN_, _BRETTA MARTYN_, _THE MITZVAH_ (forthcoming,=20 with Aaron Zelman), and 15 other novels. Order them from Amazon.com=20 via or from Laissez Faire=20 Books at or just call Laissez Faire toll=20 free, 1-800-326-0996. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:47:34 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: SB 122 passes the Senate! SB 122, Olympic Gun Control (plus restrictions on firearms in churches and private residences) passed the Senate today by a vote of 21-4, with 4 absent/abstentions. This is actually WORSE than the second reading vote which was 19-6-4. Roll call vote (names) is not yet available. The bill has been amended again: 1. What may be designated an Olympic venue has been restricted to areas "secured by a perimeter, with controlled access" and/or areas not open to the public such as the Olympic village. Designation is still done by the Olympic Commander and not the legislature. 2. Language has been added that clarifies that an owner may not deny a tenant the right to keep and bear arms. 3. The bill reiterates that nothing in the bill modifies the Government Immunity Act. To give credit where it's due, USSC and Mike Waddoups worked together to get these amendments worked out. However the real credit goes to the people who objected to the original versions of the bill and insisted on changes. While SB 122 is somewhat improved, it is still a BAD bill. SLOC has refused to accept any liability for anyone killed or injured at the Olympics. The state is immune to liability suits. There still is no provision for safe storage of weapons, so anyone attending events must travel to and from those events completely disarmed. Visitors will have to chose between leaving a firarm in a hotel room or car, and leaving it home. The criminals are probably out celebrating. While defining "secure areas" with fences and restricted access is a step in the right direction, this in no way prevents the Olympic Commander from fencing off the Gallivan Center, the Fairpark, or a few blocks of downtown and restricting your right to enter. Why did this bill pass? Because our legislators agree with the Olympic internationalists that "rights" only exist when our rulers "grant" them, and these same rulers can revoke them at any time with complete immunity. The Constitutions of the US and Utah are just "old pieces of paper". Rights are inalienable, and cannot be revoked. However, people who don't understand what rights are and why they're important can be persuaded to GIVE their rights away. That is what is happening in Utah. We're giving our rights away (or allowing them to be stolen) in return for false promises of "security" and Olympic gold. If you don't want your rights stolen, it's time to act. Contact members of the HOUSE and insist that they OPPOSE SB 122 in any form. Personal contact is preferable to e-mail, so try to TALK to as many Representatives as possible, and then follow-up with e-mail. General contact numbers: House voice: 801-538-1029, 800-662-3367 House fax: Rep. 801-538-1908, Dem. 801-538-9505 E-mail: Gadair@le.state.ut.us (Gerry Adair) Jalexand@le.state.ut.us (Jeff Alexander) sallen@le.state.ut.us (Sheryl Allen) eanderso@le.state.ut.us (Eli Anderson) parent@le.state.ut.us (Patrice Arent) lbaca@le.state.ut.us (Loretta Baca) tbeck@le.state.ut.us (Trisha Beck) rbecker@le.state.ut.us (Ralph Becker) cbennion@le.state.ut.us (Chad Bennion) rbigelow@le.state.ut.us (Ron Bigelow) jbiskups@le.state.ut.us (Jackie Biskupski) dbourdea@le.state.ut.us (Duane Bourdeaux) dbowman@le.state.ut.us (DeMar Bowman) abradsha@le.state.ut.us (Afton Bradshaw) mbrown@le.state.ut.us (Mel Brown) kbryson@le.state.ut.us (Katherine Bryson) pbuckner@le.state.ut.us (Perry Buckner) jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us (Judy Buffmire) dbush@le.state.ut.us (Don Bush) cbuttars@le.state.ut.us (Craig Buttars) mcarlson@le.state.ut.us (Mary Carlson) bchard@le.state.ut.us (Blake Chard) dcox@le.state.ut.us (David N. Cox) gcox@le.state.ut.us (Gary Cox) gcurtis@le.state.ut.us (Greg Curtis) mdayton@le.state.ut.us (Margaret Dayton) mdillree@le.state.ut.us (Marda Dillree) cduckwor@le.state.ut.us (Carl W. Duckworth) bferry@le.state.ut.us (Ben C. Ferry) ffife@le.state.ut.us (Fred J. Fife) lfrandse@le.state.ut.us (Lloyd Frandsen) kgarn@le.state.ut.us (Kevin Garn) dgladwel@le.state.ut.us (David Gladwell) bgoodfel@le.state.ut.us (Brent Goodfellow) jgowans@le.state.ut.us (James Gowans) nhansen@le.state.ut.us (Neil A. Hansen) wharper@le.state.ut.us (Wayne Harper) thatch@le.state.ut.us (Thomas Hatch) nhendric@le.state.ut.us (Neal Hendrickson) dhogue@le.state.ut.us (Dave Hogue) kholdawa@le.state.ut.us (Kory M. Holdaway) bhollada@le.state.ut.us (Bryan Holladay) diverson@le.state.ut.us (Dennis Iverson) bjohnson@le.state.ut.us (Bradley Johnson) kjohnson@le.state.ut.us (Keele Johnson) djones@le.state.ut.us (David Jones) bking@le.state.ut.us (Brad King) skoehn@le.state.ut.us (Susan Koehn) blockhar@le.state.ut.us (Becky Lockhart) kmorgan@le.state.ut.us (Karen W. Morgan) jmurray@le.state.ut.us (Joseph Murray) lnelson@le.state.ut.us (Lowell Nelson) lpace@le.state.ut.us (Loraine Pace) trowan@le.state.ut.us (Tammy Rowan) Csaunder@le.state.ut.us (Carl Saunders) jseitz@le.state.ut.us (Jack Seitz) Rshort@le.state.ut.us (Ray Short) lshurtli@le.state.ut.us (Lou Shurtliff) rsiddowa@le.state.ut.us (Richard Siddoway) gsnow@le.state.ut.us (Gordon Snow) msnow@le.state.ut.us (Marlon O. Snow) mstephen@le.state.ut.us (Martin Stephens) nstephen@le.state.ut.us (Nora Stephens) mstyler@le.state.ut.us (Michael Styler) jswallow@le.state.ut.us (John Swallow) jtanner@le.state.ut.us (Jordan Tanner) mthrockm@le.state.ut.us (Matt Throckmorton) atyler@le.state.ut.us (Lamont Tyler) dure@le.state.ut.us (David Ure) rwalsh@le.state.ut.us (Richard Walsh) gway@le.state.ut.us (Glenn Way) bwright@le.state.ut.us (Bill Wright) dzolman@le.state.ut.us (David Zolman) Thanks! It's in YOUR hands! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:00:28 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: The Salt Lake Tribune -- Bad Law Anyone care to write a response? http://www.sltrib.com/02221999/public_f/85242.htm > Monday, February 22, 1999 > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bad Law > > John Swallow, [imageField] > speaking against > restricting handguns in schools and churches: "We have > the responsibility to not do just what is popular at the > moment but to push principles that are wise and just." > How fatuous! > Our society does not need weapons carried by > licensed citizens. Our streets are not safer today with > 22,000 licensed handgun permitees than we were before > this legislation was passed. How many crimes have been > thwarted through the intervention of an armed civilian > with a concealed weapons permit? I can't recall a > newspaper story or a newscast reporting where this has > happened in our state. Concealed-weapon proponents talk > about using their legal weapon as a means for > protection. Some claim that "packing heat" will deter a > person from committing a crime. This is nonsense. A > drugged out person wild for money to feed his habit or a > punk with a handgun is not going to think twice about > the possible consequences of his actions. > This is a bad law. It has caused friction and > division between reasonable people. Positions have > hardened almost to a point where real accommodation and > compromise will be exceedingly difficult. I hope that > Rep. Swallow will revisit his position and indeed "push > principles that are wise and just." > RAYMOND HOLLSTEIN > Salt Lake City > > > [Previous Story] [Next Story] > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ) Copyright 1999, The Salt Lake Tribune > > All material found on Utah OnLine is copyrighted The Salt Lake Tribune and associated news services. No material may be reproduced or reused > without explicit permission from The Salt Lake Tribune. > - -------------------------------------------------- > Contact The Salt Lake Tribune or Utah OnLine by clicking here. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:32:42 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: GSL> Jailing those who sue gun makers This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. - --=_4314ACD2.BFDEB31F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I wonder if Utah could get a bill like this passed... - --=_4314ACD2.BFDEB31F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:31:42 -0700 Received: from admin.listbox.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA12488; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:15:55 -0700 Received: by admin.listbox.com (Postfix) id 7545C2822A; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:27:33 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: rkba-co-list@listbox.com Received: by admin.listbox.com (Postfix, from userid 509) id 70F8B28229; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:27:33 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: rkba-co@pudge.listbox.com Received: from chai.pobox.com (chai.pobox.com [208.210.124.35]) by admin.listbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for id DA3E428224; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:25:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mg1.rockymtn.net (mailserv.rockymtn.net [166.93.205.11]) by chai.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for id 747227AAC; Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from 166-93-90-37.rmi.net (166-93-90-37.rmi.net [166.93.90.37]) by mg1.rockymtn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12109; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:56:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199902240456.VAA12109@mg1.rockymtn.net> X-Sender: davisda@shell.rmi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:57:03 -0700 To: davisda@rmi.net From: Mike Kemp (by way of Douglas Davis ) Subject: GSL> Jailing those who sue gun makers Sender: owner-rkba-co.new@admin.listbox.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rkba-co@majordomo.pobox.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Posted to rkba-co by Mike Kemp (by way of = Douglas Davis ) - ----------------------- http://resistance.to > http://thePentagon.com/FullBookJacket > http://GunsSaveLives.com Florida Law Would Jail Mayors Who Sue Gun Makers By Jane Sutton MIAMI (Reuters) - Mayors who sue gun makers would face up to five years in prison under a proposed Florida law that opponents said Tuesday is the latest salvo in a national battle over liability for shooting injuries and deaths. The bill filed Feb. 19 by state Rep. George Albright would make it a crime for local government officials to sue gun and ammunition makers to recoup damages in cases arising from ``the lawful design, marketing or sale of firearms.'' Public officials who file such lawsuits would risk conviction on a third-degree felony, punishable by up to five years in prison and fines up to $5,000. Albright, a Republican from Ocala, said product liability lawsuits should be left to private citizens and his bill would stop local government officials from exercising powers the legislature never intended them to have. ``This is about a small group of greedy mayors and a small group of greedy trial lawyers,'' he told Reuters Tuesday. The ban would apply to lawsuits already pending, quashing the product liability suit that Miami's county government filed against two dozen gun makers and distributors in January. That suit argued that gun makers failed to equip their wares with adequate safety features. It seeks to recoup hundreds of millions of tax dollars spent treating gunfire victims and investigating gun-related crimes. Miami-Dade County Mayor Alex Penelas, who filed it, said Albright's bill would have little real effect since individuals could still sue gun makers, even if governments could not. ``Look what happened in New York. It was the victims and families of victims that brought the lawsuit and they were successful,'' Penelas told Reuters. Earlier this month, a federal jury in Brooklyn, New York found 15 gunmakers liable for seven shootings with illegally obtained handguns. The jury awarded more than $500,000 in damages to the lone surviving plaintiff, marking the first time a jury has held manufacturers responsible for allowing guns to fall into the hands of criminals. Chicago, New Orleans, Atlanta, and Bridgeport, Connecticut, have also sued gun makers over distribution or safety issues, and other municipalities have said they plan to follow suit. Lobbyists for the gun industry have countered by pressing state legislatures to outlaw the lawsuits against gun makers. Georgia did so earlier this month, including a retroactive clause that could kill Atlanta's case. Similar anti-lawsuit legislation has been filed in Alaska, Texas, Kansas, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont and West Virginia, according to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. ``The gun lobby has said 'jump' and unfortunately too many legislators, when they hear the command, have to see how high they can jump,'' said the center's Joe Sudbay. ``Why are legislators trying to protect this one industry from a lawsuit? This is an industry that makes a product specifically designed to kill,'' said Sudbay, whose group is a plaintiff in the Miami-Dade County suit. Marion Hammer, a Florida lobbyist and former president of the National Rifle Association, said the group pushed for the Albright bill in order to block a flurry of ``ludicrous'' lawsuits that attempt to establish ``back-door gun control.'' Hammer said officials who want to stem gun violence would be better served to beef up enforcement of existing laws, such as the Florida law requiring three-year minimum prison terms for criminals convicted of using guns to commit crimes. Penelas, asked if he would be willing to risk jail under the new law, said: ``I am a law abiding citizen. If that's the law, I would follow the law.'' - -------------------------- GunsSaveLives Internet Discussion List is governed by an acceptable use policy: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/policy.html To unsubscribe send a message to majordomo@listbox.com with the following line in the body: unsubscribe gsl GUNSSAVELIVES (GSL) IS A PRIVATE UNMODERATED LIST. THE OWNER TAKES NO RESPONSIBILTY FOR CONTENT. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Somebody once said that a liberal's worst nightmare was=20 a self-employed American with a 401K pension, because he=20 didn't want anything from the government except to be left=20 alone. A self-employed person with a 401K and a concealed=20 carry permit will need the government even less. =20 ****************** Firearms, self-defense, and other information, with LINKS are available at: http://shell.rmi.net/~davisda Latest additions are found in the group NEW with alerts under the heading ALERTS. ******************** For Help with Majordomo Commands, please send a message to: Majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the word Help in the body of the message - --=_4314ACD2.BFDEB31F-- - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #128 ***********************************