From: Zorn List Digest Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 8:49 PM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #170 Zorn List Digest Wednesday, November 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 170 In this issue: - Re: Frank Lowe Sonny Sharrock Re: Leng T'Che Re: Milo Fine Re: yada yada yada : 5 points Re: Pigpen Re: Leng T'Che RE: "Don't ever piss of a pacifist" Re: Sonny Sharrock Re: Frank Lowe Re: Pigpen RE: The secret life of pacifists (was: "Don't ever piss of...) Re: Leng T'Che (graphics) Re: Frank Lowe Re: Sonny Sharrock (and other Space Ghosts) Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay Re: Another question Re: Leng T'Che Re: Wynton does Ornette (and not very well) (was: Zorn's etc) Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay J.T. Lewis Re: Leng T'Che ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:04:30 +0100 From: Stephane Vuilleumier Subject: Re: Frank Lowe This is the Zorn list I guess so... I like this one better than the flam: 001 - LOWE & BEHOLD: The Frank Lowe Orchestra 1/ Heart In Hand Or (How Vain I Am) (Lowe) 13:58 2/ A Hipster's Dream (Lowe) 4:24 3/ Lowe-commotion (Lowe) 7:58 4/ Heavy Drama (Lowe) 12:49 Recorded in October 1977, New York City Frank Lowe: tenor; Joseph Bowie: trombone; Lawrence "Butch" Morris: cornet; Arthur Williams: trumpet; Billy Bang: violin; Polly Bradfield: violin; Eugene Chadbourne: guitar; John Linberg: bass; Philip Wilson: drums, percus- sion; John Zorn: alto; Peter Kuhn: clarinet and bass clarinet. 1978 - Musicworks, Musicworks 3002 (LP) At 11:13 19.11.97 -0800, jasontors wrote: >Speaking of monster Sax players, Frank Lowe was a pioneer in tweeking the >emotional voice of the sax. I recently picked up his album from the 70's >called The Flam. I find it to be a hefty brain jiggle. >What do others think of this player? >Any other suggestions for great Frank Lowe albums? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:37:51 -0500 From: KEVIN NEALES Subject: Sonny Sharrock I recently saw a used C.D. by Bill Cosby and Friends(forgot the name of it but it was from 1990) and was surprised to see Sonny Sharrock played on one song. I didn't buy it because I thought it would be pretty lame. Has anyone heard this? Also I really like the music Sonny Sharrock did for the Space Ghost Coast to Coast show. Is this available on C.D.?? Thanks, Kevin N. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:44:16 -0800 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Leng T'Che Tom Pratt wrote: > > With all of this talk of Naked City, I have to ask: > > Does anybody out there have a copy of LENG T'CHE that they would be > willing to sell or know where I might be able to find a copy. Or has > anyone seen a copy in their local record stores or used bins or what > have you? I REALLY want a copy!!! I already own Torture Garden so I > don't want to buy the Black Box. Thank you for any help!!!! > > listening to: Crispell/Brotzmann/Drake - Hyperion (Music & Arts) > > -Tom Pratt > > - Can hardly sell you mine and I haven't seen it around in quite a while, but just thought I'd add that, for my bucks, this is the most perfectly realized, intense thing I've ever heard from Mr. Zorn. If ever a cover photo and music contained therein have matched this powerfully and exactly, I haven't heard it. If it's the only way you'll hear it, buy the damned Black Box. Brian O. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:49:32 -0800 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Milo Fine goodadam@quicklink.com wrote: > can't remember the names of the other musicians--a guy playing tenor and > an electric guitarist with really quirky technique. who are these guys? > any chance that they're playing a gig on thanskgiving? The guitarist might have been Steve Gnitka (think I'm spelling that correctly). The two worked as a duo and had an interesting trio record with Joe McPhee on hatHut back around 1978. Brian O. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:46:16 -0800 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: yada yada yada : 5 points Bob Kowalski wrote: > 5. I've been on a treasure hunt for Michael Nyman recordings lately and > also just recently purchased the new Gavin Bryars "Man in a Room, > Gambling." Mentioning Zorn ...et al on the Nyman listserv gets minimal > reaction (sorry- couldn't help that one.) How do all ya Zorn-o-philes like > Nyman, Bryars and such? Just curious. In addition to the more readily available Bryars items available, two things worth searching out are 'Hommages' which came out around 1982 on Les Disques du Crepuscule (I think it's been re-issued on disc), featuring some lush, lovely pieces for what sounds like vibes, piano and cymbals (no info, on instruments or players, is given on the sleeve) and the first re-recording of 'Titanic', also on Les Disques, recorded in a cistern in 1990--even better, IMHO, than the original and that's saying a lot. Brian O. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:12:44 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Pigpen > >*** - DAYLIGHT: Pigpen > > > > 1/ Daylight (Horvitz) > > 2/ V As In Victim (Horvitz) Just curious, is track 2 the same version that appears on the album of the same name? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:11:28 -0800 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Leng T'Che Julian wrote: > > > Can hardly sell you mine and I haven't seen it around in quite a while, > > but just thought I'd add that, for my bucks, this is the most perfectly > > realized, intense thing I've ever heard from Mr. Zorn. If ever a cover > > photo and music contained therein have matched this powerfully and > > exactly, I haven't heard it. If it's the only way you'll hear it, buy > > the damned Black Box. > > Just out of interest, what is the cover photo? Well, this subject was covered here in some detail a little while back but, briefly, it's a photo taken in China in the 1920's (? I forget the exact date) of an individual beginning to be sawed into pieces as punishment for (again, as I recall) an assassination attempt on a local prince. The expression on that man's face I can only inadequately describe as horrific/ecstatic, just unforgetably mind and gut-wrenching. A friend to whom I showed the CD was literally unable to sleep that night! I have to give JZ credit for unearthing photos and illustrations that are not merely grotesque, unhealthily erotic, etc. but that have (usually) a goodly amount of resonance. I've often wondered about the story behind the photo on 'Buried Secrets' (a pair of cuffed hands lifting a skull out of the soil); it's a troubling, formally beautiful image that implies an interesting narrative. Brian O. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:52:50 -0500 From: rob ludington Subject: RE: "Don't ever piss of a pacifist" - ---------- From: Schwitterz[SMTP:mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 4:27 PM To: zorn-list@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: "Don't ever piss of a pacifist" >But was the quote supposed to be > >"Don't ever piss off a pacifist" > >or > >"Don't ever piss on a pacifist" >"Don't ever piss, pacifist." Actually it is most likely: "Don't piss off a pissing pacifist." Some things could be worse than a black eye; all depends on what your wearing..... ;) - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:05:00 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, KEVIN NEALES wrote: > Also I really like the music Sonny Sharrock did > for the Space Ghost Coast to Coast show. Is this available on C.D.?? This was at one point available (for just postage, I think) from the Cartoon Network. I don't know if that offer's still good. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:10:39 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Frank Lowe On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Jason Tors wrote: > Any other suggestions for great Frank Lowe albums? The recent _Bodies & Soul_ on CIMP is less conceptual than some of Lowe's other work, but it's a wonderfully played, passionate free jazz trio, prominently featuring the late undersung drummer Charles Moffett. The recording also captures the sound of live jazz (warts, inaudibilities, and all) better than any other CD I've heard. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:32:54 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Pigpen On Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:12:44 +1100 "Julian" wrote: > > > >*** - DAYLIGHT: Pigpen > > > > > > 1/ Daylight (Horvitz) > > > 2/ V As In Victim (Horvitz) > > Just curious, is track 2 the same version that appears on the album of the > same name? The same song, but a different recording. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:36:05 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: RE: The secret life of pacifists (was: "Don't ever piss of...) On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, rob ludington wrote: > From: Schwitterz[SMTP:mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us] > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 4:27 PM > > >"Don't ever piss off a pacifist" Err; so maybe it would be OK to piss *on* a pacifist? Not I go in for this golden shower stuff, you understand. But if you ask nicely, anything is possible :-) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:43:56 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Leng T'Che (graphics) On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Brian Olewnick wrote: > Julian wrote: > > > > Just out of interest, what is the cover photo? > > Well, this subject was covered here in some detail a little while back > but, briefly, it's a photo taken in China in the 1920's (? I forget the > exact date) of an individual beginning to be sawed into pieces as > punishment for (again, as I recall) an assassination attempt on a local > prince. The expression on that man's face I can only inadequately She's a Chinese princess, and this was her punishment for treason. The photos are taken from a book by George Bataille (can't think of the bloody title, but its) published by City Lights (from memory). - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:54:47 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Frank Lowe On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Jason Tors wrote: > Speaking of monster Sax players, Frank Lowe was a pioneer in tweeking the > emotional voice of the sax. I recently picked up his album from the 70's > called The Flam. I find it to be a hefty brain jiggle. > What do others think of this player? > Any other suggestions for great Frank Lowe albums? > Big fan of (what is maybe roughly contemporaneous w The Flam) Lowe's Black Beings (saw the original ESP pressing earlier in the year - a mere $9). Some very fine bellowing, an excellent ensemble cast, and readily available on disc... - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:58:20 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock (and other Space Ghosts) On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, KEVIN NEALES wrote: > > > Also I really like the music Sonny Sharrock did > > for the Space Ghost Coast to Coast show. Is this available on C.D.?? > > This was at one point available (for just postage, I think) from the > Cartoon Network. I don't know if that offer's still good. > Dunno anything about this Space Ghost character (no cable in my household - - we're just poor students, you understand), but Sharrock is always welcome at my hifi; and I dig those cartoon soundtracks! Can somebody clue me up? Cheers, Jim - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:33:59 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay Missed the first one (No - stop kicking me - I am self-administering beatings at this point) but caught the last two of three films by Abigail Child last night. They were Perils, 1986, 4min Mayhem, 1987, 16min Mercy, 1989, 10 min constituting parts 5, 6 & 7 of a project called "Is This What You Were Born For" (from a Goya etching in the Disasters of War series). All on 16mm. Really fucking extraordinary and great stuff - a frenzied torrent of (mostly) found-footage images, interrogating media imagery - dislocating and subverting its meanings. It was compelling to see a filmmaker so in command of their media: Child is a virtuoso, and employing a whole arsenal of editing techniques. She cuts across motion better than almost anyone ('cept maybe Svankmajer), and labours the composition of the fragments into a satisfying and perfectly coherent finished work. Definitely non-narrative, but there's an internal logic there that's pretty clear to see. And accompanying the images - "music" by Christian Marclay (plus a few others). Dunno 'bout Perils, which I missed (but its listed in the back of the 1990 Musique Actuelles catalogue with a Chris Marclay s/t), but Mayhem used a quartet of Marclay, Charles K Noyes, Zeena Parkins and Shelley Hirsch. The only credit on Mercy was for Hirsch's voice, tho' the music was v much in the vein of Marclay (like; I'm definite it was him, only inexplicably not credited). Some records he used, that I recognised: Les Baxter's "Tamboo", Yma Sumac, and the BBC's wonderful "Off Beat Sound Effects" LP. The sound was perfectly sensitive to the visuals, and - as you've no doubt guessed - equally destroyed. I mean, it was really swell - stunningly great. I need more info on Marclay and this Child character both. Still no more to hand on Marclay's other soundtrack ("Wax"?). But at this point - there's almost enough material for him to have a disc of filmworks himself (how 'bout it, Mista Zorn?). - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:50:59 -0500 From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Another question ***** The album(s) you're referring to are not the Ocean of Sound compilations but four History of Ambient Music compilations that Virgin UK put together about two or three years ago. (The title may actually have just been Ambient but my CDs are mostly still boxed up after a move & I can't confirm dates or titles.) Three of them were released in the US for sure (I've even seen them for sale at Best Buy) but the one devoted to "Isolationism" that got raves in The Wire was not as far as I know. The two I heard were exactly as you described them with an intelligent mix of older music that could be shoe-horned into the ambient label along with bits of prog rock, experimentalists, etc though nobody particularly obscure. They were all double-CDs but no book. LT At 02:29 PM 11/19/97 UT, you wrote: >Probably last year, somebody (or somebodies) mentioned a book/disc package from >Virgin Records that detailed the history of Ambient music and included early >ambient pioneers like John Cage, Brian Eno, Tnagerine Dream, Kraftwerk and the >like, along with newer stuff. Does this ring any bells? Can anyone refresh my >memory? > >Thanks, >Peter > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:40:55 -0600 From: "Petsitter" Subject: Re: Leng T'Che - ---------- > From: Brian Olewnick > To: zorn-list@xmission.com > Subject: Re: Leng T'Che > Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 10:11 PM > > Julian wrote: > > > > > I've often wondered about the > story behind the photo on 'Buried Secrets' (a pair of cuffed hands > lifting a skull out of the soil); it's a troubling, formally beautiful > image that implies an interesting narrative. > > Brian O. I have also wondered about the story behing 'Buried Secrets.' If anyone on the list knows, could they please share? Jeff > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:11:27 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Wynton does Ornette (and not very well) (was: Zorn's etc) On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-11-17 14:39:29 EST, you (punkjazz@snet.net) write: > > << End of Rant. >> > > And it was a well deserved one. > > jazz goings-on as many up NYC-ways. I am astounded how people such as > Ornette Coleman, who have a resume' that dwarfs other musicians such as Mr. > Marsalis- are still treated. Dosen't a musician's success in the history of > jazz (or any other genre of music) count for anything, even in these days? There was a horrible (leastways, for me) moment in the closing of Spike Lee's Mo' Better Blues with the wretched Wynton turning in a total travesty of Lonely Woman. And I am not so enamoured of the NC version, but this was truly *VOM* inspiring; shorn of its plaintive keening, and all those perfect right-wrong notes. No melancholy, no beauty - something so meretriciously bland it could only be the work of that insensate zombie: Wynton Marsalis. I dunno; maybe I'm being a little too emotive about it? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:27:58 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Soundtracks by Christian Marclay On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote: > I need more info on Marclay No info here, but the recent Atavistic comp _Records_ is chockful of great 80's Marclay tracks. Anyone interested in Marclay's solo work should check it out. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:04:55 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: J.T. Lewis Well I asked this over on rec.music.bluenose, figuring it was more appropriate there, but scored not one response. I was really impressed by J. T. Lewis' drumming on Threadgill's most recent, and maybe I have been living in a Skinner box, but the only other recordings with Lewis that I am aware of are an early Material record and a Donna Summer CD from around 1990. Just wondering what he has done in between, before, after... Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:48:48 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Leng T'Che At 08:11 PM 11/19/97 -0800, Brian Olewnick wrote: >night! I have to give JZ credit for unearthing photos and illustrations >that are not merely grotesque, unhealthily erotic, etc. but that have >(usually) a goodly amount of resonance. If one wants to find these images, it is not so hard, especially in New York. I have recently purchased books of morgue photos, police crime scene photos, and most chilling, photos of the catacombs of Palermo. Most of these would look just fine on a Naked City CD. What Zorn has done well is match the photos to the contents of the packages they adorn. Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #170 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.