From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #1014 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, July 24 2000 Volume 02 : Number 1014 In this issue: - napster Rebirth Of Post-cool this renaming thing RE: pachora "ast" Re: ? for reviewers Re: fred frith & boulez (though not together) Re: Rebirth Of Post-cool 2000? Peggy Lee? Re: Zorn Practicing Re: 2000? Re: Peggy Lee? Masada - first performance outisde of US Re: Peggy Lee? Re: fred frith respiritus Mapster frith RE: frith RE: frith Re[2]: frith Re: Morals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 23:22:23 +0200 From: "Rob Allaert" Subject: napster Zorn-agains, Napster version beta7 (www.napster.com) enables us to create our own Chat 'n Trade channel. I'd suggest, when you're logged in with Napster you look for or create a channel with this and only this name: "zornlist", yes in one word. We might be able to find eachother to share songs of albums we are considering to buy. Just do it !!! Rob, Belgium ______________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:37:45 -0700 From: "s~Z" Subject: Rebirth Of Post-cool I hereby withdraw my nomination of 'Zornithologists,' and second the nomination of *Zorn-agains* as the official name of Zorn-list members. Tell me my friend; are you Zorn-again? - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:52:51 CDT From: "Kristopher S. Handley" Subject: this renaming thing I'd like to be a Mickey Mao's Kid. - ----s >From: "s~Z" >I hereby withdraw my nomination of 'Zornithologists,' and second the >nomination of *Zorn-agains* as the official name of Zorn-list members. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 03:12:11 +0200 From: "Rob Allaert" Subject: RE: pachora "ast" Julian, 'Ast' is simply their best album to date. Same style, of course, but more homogenic, a little more melodious, every song works completely, even the Bowie cover. The Jim Black composition "Falevasinta" is truly amazing. Run to your nearest music store and then left-click "checkout" ! Rob, Belgium _____________ NP: Satlah - Danny Zamir (Masada all over again) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:00:52 -0400 From: "Alan Lankin" Subject: Re: ? for reviewers You can find info on upcoming jazz CDs on my site: http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingcds.html. Alan Lankin lankina@att.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: July 12, 2000 5:04 PM Subject: ? for reviewers > > [...] > how do you keep on top of upcoming releases? > [...] is there a good place to find what's impending? > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:51:26 -0400 From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: fred frith & boulez (though not together) I have yet to hear the new one, but if you are interested in his work for ensembles which feature a lot of pre-digital sampling techniques, then you'd do well to look for Gravity and Speechless, 2 LP's from the early 80's that are now on CD from East Side Digital. Each side of the original LP's featured a different ensemble; Frith's "power Trio" Massacre; the french group Etron Fou Leloublan, The Swedish group Zamla Mammaz Manna, and the Washington DC band The Muffins. The music runs from abrasive hard rock to European folk tunes, to quiet ambient pieces, all strung together with tape collage that recalls Zappa's Lumpy Gravy. I'm also quite fond of the Art Bears discs, but they are a much harder listen than Gravity & Speechless. RW - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:30:54 -0400 From: "Dann-Brown" Subject: Re: Rebirth Of Post-cool > Tell me my friend; are you Zorn-again? I dunno, as a Jew, I don't think I need to be Zorn-again =-) Someone mentioned a while back if anyone had heard The New Klez Trio's "Short for Something." I picked it up yesterday (well, OK, I did more than pick it up - I took it to the cash register and paid for it too) and I listened to it today. And, to put it frankly, I like it a lot. It's pretty much a 'group' record (as their name would suggest), but the element that keeps drawing me in to the album is Wollesen's drumming. I don't know too much about Wolleson. All I've heard him playing on is this, Bar Kokhba and the Live in NY/Germany 1994 CD. Can anyone toss out some more recommendations? What about that Dim Sum Slip Job album? - ------- Dann-Brown - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:26:45 GMT From: "doron galili" Subject: 2000? hey! was masada's london concert published on a cd? on what label? when? the concert was amazing, but i haven't heard about a cd. (not until that mail) >From: Samerivertwice@aol.com >Top 10 CD's for July >1. Masada Live in London 2000 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:59:12 +0200 From: Fritz Feger Subject: Peggy Lee? Steve Smith wrote: >Presumably when they take it to the studio, Feldman, >Friedlander and Roseman will be back on board, but I'll just reiterate what a >splendid job Hammann, Lee and Daley did in their places, and that with only >one rehearsal... Are there any records out with Peggy Lee? What is she doing? Thank you; Fritz. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:50:36 +0200 From: Fritz Feger Subject: Re: Zorn Practicing ... maybe two days late, but what it's worth... James Graves wrote: >Much art in the 20th >century has addressed and expanded the defining lines between artist and >observer, but I still feel left in a strange position here. Anybody have >any thoughts on this? Some artists seem to understand themselves as public persons, like politicians. This coheres with creating one's own life as part of the Gesamtkunstwerk, not only records and concerts. This account requires the observer to notice "trivia" as well because they are part of the "work" of the artist. I guess that Zorn has such a tendency, or wouldn't you think that stories like the "shut the fuck up"-Albright incident are, at least in part, purposeful contributions to his image? What do the listers who see him live frequently think? Fritz. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:47:27 EDT From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: 2000? In a message dated 7/23/00 6:29:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, doronjgalili@hotmail.com writes: << hey! was masada's london concert published on a cd? on what label? when? the concert was amazing, but i haven't heard about a cd. (not until that mail) >From: Samerivertwice@aol.com >Top 10 CD's for July >1. Masada Live in London 2000 >> No. A friend in London recorded it for me. Top 10 CD's for July 1. Masada Live in London 2000 2. "In His Own Sweet Way" Dave Brubeck Tribute 3. Iris Dement "Infamous Angel" 4. Billy Bragg/Wilco -- "Mermaid Avenue 2" 5. Miles Davis -- "Complete Live At The Plugged Nickel" 6. Thomas Chapin -- "Alive" 7. Buena Vista Social Club 8. Johnny Cash -- "American Recordings" 9. The Best Of Patsy Cline 10. The Clash -- "London Calling" - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 11:43:36 -0400 From: James Hale Subject: Re: Peggy Lee? Peggy Lee leads her band on an extremely good CD on Spool called The Peggy Lee Band. She also plays duets with her husband, drummer Dylan van der Schyff on These Are Our Shoes (also Spool). Both are featured, along with Dave Douglas and Mark Dresser, on clarinetist Francois Houle's beautiful tribute to John Carter, In The Vernacular (Songlines) and in a cooperative band called Talking Pictures, mostly on the defunct Red Toucan label. Those are her "jazzier" things. She also plays in a number of other settings that are closer to contemporary classical. James Hale Fritz Feger wrote: > > Steve Smith wrote: > >Presumably when they take it to the studio, Feldman, > >Friedlander and Roseman will be back on board, but I'll just reiterate what a > >splendid job Hammann, Lee and Daley did in their places, and that with only > >one rehearsal... > > Are there any records out with Peggy Lee? What is she doing? > > Thank you; > Fritz. > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:37:11 +0200 From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: Masada - first performance outisde of US Hi Philozorners, I try to figure out, when was the first Masada performance outside of US. I know, they were palying at Warsaw Summer Jazz Days on June 22, 1994, four days after finishing the recording of "Gimel". But, did they play elsewhere in Europe before? I mean the permanent lineup with Douglas, Baron and Cohen. I know Zorn played the Masada tunes with Marc Ribot, John Medeski and Billy Martin on April 29, 1994 in Padova, Italy. I don't have any bootlegs / I don't know about any performances of the "brass" Masada (I mean, with Douglas) after introduction of the band during Zornfest @ KF on September 1993 (http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/zornfest/). Can anybody recall more facts? Regards __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:23:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Peggy Lee? If you mean solo CDs, yes and no. She has done one CD with Carlos Zigaro for the hatology label, a couple with her husband drummer Dylan van der Schyff and others for the Spool label and recorded as part of Talking Pictures on Red Toucan. She may have more in the works. Ken Waxman On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Fritz Feger wrote: > Are there any records out with Peggy Lee? What is she doing? > > Thank you; > Fritz. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 19:54:40 +0200 From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: fred frith I heard Fred Frith several times last year until he left Stuttgart. The solo gigs were terrific. I don't know the "Guitar Solos" recording, but the concerts were completely improvised. Then I heard him with Frank Schulte, electronics, a duo improvisation as a journey to "Elektr(on)ische Welten" ("Electr(on)ic Worlds"). At these concerts Frith was a great guitar improviser. At one concert with Han Bennink and some German guest musicians he was mainly the leader and produced the "basis" for the saxophone improviser. Finally there was a concert of his guitar quartet, that played mainly Frith's compositions. In my opinion, there are two different musicians "Fred Frith". The composer and the improviser. The composed works (Traffic, Allies are the one's that I know) are quite different from the improvised ones (e.g. Massacre, The Art of Memory, solo gigs). A good "sampler" throught the 80s is "Step Across The Border", a film about Frith, with Frith's music. The film is said to be excellent, but I haven't been able to see it, yet. I just own the soundtrack that covers the music that he played in the 80s. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:46:29 -0400 From: Matt Laferty Subject: respiritus Zorn People Has anyone heard the John Butcher/ Vanessa Mackness album "Respiritus" and be willing to comment on it? It's constantly amazing to me the oddities that show up just surfing the Forced Exposure catalog at random. Matt NP: Bert Jansch, "Jack Orion" - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 01:19:05 -0400 From: "Ljova" Subject: Mapster For those of you who are fans of the group Napster (chuckle chuckle), do you use Napigator? If so, which server are you generally on? Thanks, Ljova (who tried to create the Zornlist channel several times today, but nobody came in...) - -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin L@Ljova.com http://mp3.com/Ljova/ "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." -Miles Davis - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:22:35 +0100 From: "Peter Marsh" Subject: frith Kristopher wrote: > I've heard great things about the 1.) guitar quartet; 2.) solo performances; > 3.) other "composed" and ensemble material (i.e. the double album of graphic > score performances; PACIFICA; string quartets; etc); 4.) (sort of) ad hoc > groupings (anyone like the trio with Mori and Larry Ochs? the LATER album > w/ Mori and Mark Dresser? what about the albums with Chris Cutler?); 5.) > smaller ensembles, assumedly of Fred's compositions (some sextet...?); 6.) > film music. a good place to start is "Step Across the Border", which is a soundtrack to a film about the man himself and features re-edited and rejigged performances by fred with Massacre, Skeleton Crew, Keep the Dog, John Zorn, Iva Bittova, Tenko etc etc. it's as close to a greatest hits as you're going to get. my own recommendations would be Guitar Solos - lush, free yet melodic guitar improv. every guitarist i've ever played it to sits open mouthed all the way through it (wot, no overdubs!) Massacre/Killing Time - avant punk funk with some of frith's best, most posessed playing IMHO. laswell is kept well away from the mixing desk fortunately, so no dodgy dmx beats or extended 'constructions in dub'. Gravity - first and the most cohesive of fred's three albums on the mighty Ralph records. very folky, intricate and melodic. demented version of 'dancing in the streets'. Cutler&Frith/Two gentlemen in verona - obviously these two have been playing together for years and it shows in the level of interaction going on. cc's drumming always seems to bring out the best in ff (check out live in prague & washington too - bit muddy but great) Frith&Kaiser - with friends like these - first free improv record i ever bought and it scared the shit out of me (and still does). much better than the follow up. Henry Cow/Unrest - probably the best showcase fof ff and my fave Cow record. hard to imagine a major label putting out anything like this today. one side of compositions, one side of studio processed improv. beautiful. sorry for the self indulgence, cheers peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:33:33 +0200 From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: frith - -----Original Message----- From: Peter Marsh [mailto:marshp@richmond.ac.uk] Subject: frith Kristopher wrote: > I've heard great things about the 1.) guitar quartet; 2.) solo performances; > 3.) other "composed" and ensemble material (i.e. the double album of graphic > score performances; PACIFICA; string quartets; etc); 4.) (sort of) ad = hoc > groupings (anyone like the trio with Mori and Larry Ochs? the LATER = album > w/ Mori and Mark Dresser? what about the albums with Chris Cutler?); = 5.) > smaller ensembles, assumedly of Fred's compositions (some = sextet...?); 6.) > film music. Another interesting context in wich I liked hearing Frith play was the = album with Percy Howard (the leadsinger of N=FBs) on the Materiali Sonori = label (for info check http://www.matson.it). The band features Hayward on vocals, = AND as a backing band the revitalised Massacre band (frith on guitar, = laswell on bass and hayward on drums). The album has a great mixture of composed basic structures on wich fred frith freaks out. Definitely more mainstream than Henry Cow, but still worthwile checking out IMHO. But watch out with this album, some people think that Howard sounds like a cheap Tom Jones. He has a disctinctive voice-style, so better listen first to this album. Around the same time the album "funny valentine" by Massacre was = recorded for tzadik, but that is well know, isn't it? Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten NP Hands To (Cdr on the Manifold label) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:40:42 +0200 From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: frith - -----Original Message----- From: Verstraeten Stefan To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: frith The band features Hayward on vocals, AND as a backing band the revitalised Massacre band (frith on guitar, laswell on bass and hayward on drums). - ----------------------------------------------------- ooops, I meant off course Howard on vocals, and not Hayward... imagine a band with a lead singer who does not sing.... sounds like Otomo Yoshihide and friends (guitar with no strings, mixing desk with no input, sampler without samples)..... Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:23:30 +0200 From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re[2]: frith Verstraeten> Another interesting context in wich I liked hearing Frith play was the album Verstraeten> with Percy Howard (the leadsinger of Nûs) on the Materiali Sonori label (for Verstraeten> info check http://www.matson.it). The band features Hayward on vocals, AND Verstraeten> as a backing band the revitalised Massacre band (frith on guitar, laswell on Verstraeten> bass and hayward on drums). Verstraeten> Around the same time the album "funny valentine" by Massacre was recorded Verstraeten> for tzadik, but that is well know, isn't it? "Funny Valentine" was recorded on the same day as the Percy Howard recording. The studio was booked for a longer time than the recordings took. So Frith, Laswell and Hayward did an improvised session. After this session they called the group Massacre. But as Frith mentioned he first didn't want this because Massacre was his group playing his compositions and "Funny Valentine" is all improvised. PEACE Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:27:10 +0200 From: Fritz Feger Subject: Re: Morals One week is a long time on the list... hundreds of postings since, but anyway: Hugo wrote: >I'm always slightly missionary when I hear questions like Is art moral, Is >love good. I've probably read too much Korzybski, so I think of these >questions as >noise. Unanswerable. There is nothing that can be called "Art" and also >moral is a rather abstract term. Abstraction meaning so many levels away >from actual experience, that it becomes almost void. First, I absolutely agree with Patrice that in considering something crap, which noone will deny to do from time to time, you implicitly evaluate the rest positively (if you don't consider everything crap). And this remainder might be labelled "art" or "morally good". The noisiness of chats about abstract concepts like "art" or "the morally good" probably everyone of us has already experienced is, IMHO, a result of a lack of abstraction or an uncritical attitude towards personal experience and can be overcome; please email me privately for a reading list from Aristotle via Kant to smart contemporary minds. (Patrice: among them books with titles everyone can understand, esp. recent ones ;-) Secondly, and less off-topic, I'm always slightly missionary when I hear questions like Is art moral. Of course it is. Instead of producing abstract noise, I remind of the recent Kristallnacht debate and Steve's comments on Dave Douglas' Witness. One could claim that Zorn and Douglas and some weirdo idealists are alone in considering these works morally relevant, but I think the opposite hypothesis is more likely to be true: that some people are immune against the moral content of art, and that this insensitivity is a defect. Obvious cases are those who think films like Fight Club and Funny Games or books like American Psycho and Glamorama are morally indifferent towards violence and merely serve as a guide to violent people. Or Kristallnacht is indifferent towards antisemitism. Fritz. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #1014 ******************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com