From: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com (zorn-list Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #110 Reply-To: zorn-list@xmission.com Sender: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com Precedence: zorn-list Digest Monday, August 25 1997 Volume 02 : Number 110 In this issue: Re: Back on Bacharach Re: Beauty AND Melvins Re: Dave Douglas/Chris Speed/Skuli Re: back on bacharach Re: beauty Re: Parachute years or Masada? Filmworks IV/ Elegant Spanking Melvins? Patton? Dance for Le Corbusier Re: Melvins? Patton? Fwd: Chris Speed/Human Feel Knitting Factory Tickets? Re: Knitting Factory Tickets? Yamataka Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) Re: West Orange New Zorn Page Re: Melvins? Patton? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 01:31:43 +1000 (EST) From: rion noir Subject: Re: Back on Bacharach On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, max wrote: > I've been listening to the tribute cd quite a bit lately and was > wondering if someone could give me some info. on a few of the players I > hadn't heard before. I was most impressed with the arrangements by Erik > Friedlander, Marie McAuliffe, and Eyvind Kang... Does anyone know what > else these fine musicians have done? Yuka Honda and Guy Klucevsek are > also great and I would like to know more about. Any help would be much > appreciated... I know that Erik Friedlander also appears on the most recent Mike Patton album "Pranzo Oltranzista" (Tzadik) and if you checked his (Erik's) homepage you will have noted that he featured on Hole Unplugged. What this page does not tell you about this performance is that Erik is sitting next to none other than Zeena Parkins whom you will have noticed is also on the Bacharach CD. Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo). Trey has worked with Eyvind previously on the Tzadik release "7 NADEs" under the pseudonym of Mr. Ko (though no-one is sure why). Trey is on the Mike Patton track on the Bacharach CD which incidentally re-unites most of the players from John Zorn's "elegy" (David Slusser being one mean theremin player). What an incestous lot. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 97 02:52:38 +1000 From: Alister Shew Subject: Re: Beauty AND Melvins If I may, somewhat clumsily, weave two recent threads together... Just saw the Melvins play tonight (in Melbourne, Australia, their first ever tour here!), and the recent debate about the nature of beauty (at least in the musical sense, let's say) came to mind. Melvins are not a band you'd think of as being very concerned with beautiful music, but as they worked through the intricacies of some of the earlier material, it felt beautiful to me. It seems to me that the word 'beauty' is, like 'love', a word doomed to inadequacy by its required application to a wide range of understandings. Many use it to mean some sort of anodyne experience, an emotional massage. Others think it's more about the beauty of true emotional expression, something honest and universal. But sometimes it's more about structures, the pleasure given by a sequence of things in space and time, and this is what we're talking about when we talk about the beauty of free jazz. I don't know the Parachute works that sparked this business off, but I'll throw in Zorn's 'Book of Heads' as a comparison I'm familar with. A VERY beautiful record as far as I'm concerned, but I also find it really funny. Marc Ribot describes the process of learning the techniques of free improv as "a healthy Zen slap in the face", and it's my understanding (please correct me if I misunderstand) that humour is a key element of Zen, despite the popular notion that Buddhists are Very Serious Indeed (blame it on Richard Gere). It's the almost-but-not-quite-chaos quality of 'Book of Heads' that appeals to me; the finer the line between the two, the more difficult the beauty is. I suspect it's this sort of thing that John Shiurba was getting at in his original message when he threw the B-word into the ring. But no two people's "beauty"s (sic) are the same. I seem to have strayed away from the Melvins. Let's just say that as a band blending equal passions for volume and experimentation, they're always worth a listen, at least for the folks with the taste to be here at all. Al ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 15:09:02 -0400 (EDT) From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Dave Douglas/Chris Speed/Skuli In a message dated 97-08-23 13:08:08 EDT, proussel@ichips.intel.com (Patrice L. Roussel) writes: > > I also recommend this! Very textural sounding stuff, none of those fast > > Skuli licks like you might expect. Skuli is one of the most technically > > gifted bassists Ive ever heard, and this shows a different side to him. > > Any idea when this record got released? Also, anybody else playing on? > > Thanks, > > Patrice. No other musicians on it, every sound is created with the electric bass. Dont know the exact release date, but it was sometime this year. Its extreme records XCD 039. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 16:50:56 -0600 From: joshua herrin Subject: Re: back on bacharach Max wrote: "Does anyone know what these fine musicians have done? Yuka Honda..." Yuka Honda is one half of Cibo Matto, whose albums "Viva La Woman!" and the remix album "Super Relax!" (Warner Bros.) are on my heavy rotation. She has also done stuff with Yoko Ono, on her album "Rising". Yuka is also in the band Butter 08, whose self titled album is on Grand Royal (the Beastie Boys' label). She pops up everywhere these days, but these should give you a good start. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 17:06:09 -0600 From: joshua herrin Subject: Re: beauty I've got an idea... why don't we start a separate mailing list just for the subject of what beauty is. I've already wasted at least 10 minutes reading people ramble on about the subject, and no one sees this as enough to let the issue die. Enough, already... please. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 21:53:32 -0400 From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" Subject: Re: Parachute years or Masada? > Masada is Zorn's idiomatic jazz project. Think of any of Zorn's hard > bop > heroes. I'll pick Sonny Clark, since I'm most familiar with him. His > > tunes are all basically the same, in that they belong to the same > idiom. > The playing shows development from album to album, but not in leaps > and > bounds. If you really love Clark's take on the idiom, you'll want 'em > > all, but most fans will be happy with two or three. > > I don't see why so many people have a problem with this. > The idea > that an album should be a big statement didn't become a commonplace > until > late 60's rock, and it's arguably done more harm than good. If you > don't > want seven, ten, twenty Masada albums, just stop buying them. If the > market's being oversaturated with Zorn product, DIW will eventually > notice > and stop putting them out. Completists (and I come close to being one > > myself) have no one to blame but themselves. > > Chris Hamilton Chris: Couldn't agree more. Ellington played some of his music from the twenties right up until he died, and it didn't sound much different. He was an idiom unto himself. So, Zorn may well put out many Masadas. The point really is if a consumer tires of a product, then just don't buy it. If you like Masada then buy them all. One can be somewhat of a completist, but still exert some self control. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 21:12:51 +0000 From: "Marc A.Foster" Subject: Filmworks IV/ Elegant Spanking Does anyone recognize the reference to some popular song about 8 minutes into the Elegant Spanking track? I know the melody, but can't remember the song. Intro to Green Eyed Lady perhaps? It's been bothering me ever since the album came out. I'm about to break down and start listening to classic rock on the radio in hopes of hearing and identifying it. Marc Foster ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:10:54 +1000 (EST) From: rion noir Subject: Melvins? Patton? On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:31:58 +1000, Julian wrote: > While we're on the topic, why does the band come up in this list so > much? > What is their link to John Zorn? The only thing I know about is their > mention in the Leng Tch'e booklet. Is there anything else? When I purchased my copy of "Leng Tch'e" I was told by the sales guy that this piece was performed by John Zorn, the Melvins & Mike Patton as Naked City. When I questioned him, he was almost violently sure that this was fact. Upon repeated listenings, I found that there were some places where it sounds like it could quite definitely be Mike Patton. In others, it sounded like Yamatsuka Eye. I'm not sure if this is an often asked question, but some friends and I were wondering if it is either Patton or Eye? Or perhaps both?? Also, one of the aforementioned friends is quite certain that it cannot possibly be anyone other than Joey Baron who plays drums on "Leng Tch'e" thus making the whole Melvins & Patton thing rather a tricky puzzle. Does anyone have any ideas? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:32:02 -0400 From: "Ockham's stubble" Subject: Dance for Le Corbusier look, it's a quip, if you wish to reconstruct it as condemning some activity (it's wrong!) as a disparaging comment (can you have missed that shimmering `about'?) well then fine, you can't leave yourself at home and come downtown - but doesn't it look more like an index of futility and for god's sake who in their right mind can possibly regard futility as just discouraging? (feeling pain13's betrayal of latecomeing to frustrations attending a large gathering for discusson against expectations of discussion limited to what's interesting and not a waste of time, etc.) - -b(what's this world coming to?) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 16:25:21 -0500 From: PETSITTER Subject: Re: Melvins? Patton? rion noir wrote: > > On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:31:58 +1000, Julian wrote: > > > While we're on the topic, why does the band come up in this list so > > much? > > What is their link to John Zorn? The only thing I know about is their > > mention in the Leng Tch'e booklet. Is there anything else? > > When I purchased my copy of "Leng Tch'e" I was told by the sales guy that > this piece was performed by John Zorn, the Melvins & Mike Patton as > Naked City. When I questioned him, he was almost violently sure that this > was fact. Upon repeated listenings, I found that there were some places > where it sounds like it could quite definitely be Mike Patton. In others, > it sounded like Yamatsuka Eye. I'm not sure if this is an often asked > question, but some friends and I were wondering if it is either Patton or > Eye? Or perhaps both?? > > Also, one of the aforementioned friends is quite certain that it cannot > possibly be anyone other than Joey Baron who plays drums on "Leng Tch'e" > thus making the whole Melvins & Patton thing rather a tricky puzzle. > > Does anyone have any ideas? On the Zorn discography it says something like; patton or the melvins do not play in this CD, although they did have an influence on the piece. I tend to question this, but would disagree that it is not Naked City but the Melvins and Mike Patton. I have never heard the Melvins, but have been listening to Mike Patton for quite some time now. I follow almost all the projects he is involved in. When I listen to Leng Tch'e some of the vocals do sound like patton, but you can also hear Eye. In short, I can only tell you that I recognize Patton but have no evidence. I'd love for some one to clear this up! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 14:25:52 PDT From: "sangeeta johnson" Subject: Fwd: Chris Speed/Human Feel > >>I've got both of these and they are indeed great. Some specifics on >them >>if you're interested: >> >>Chris Speed - 'Yeah No'. Speed (reeds); Cuong Vu (trumpet); Skuli >>Sverrison (elec. bass); Jim Black (drums). If you've ever heard Chris' >>compositions with Human Feel I would call this along those same lines, >>excepting the obvious difference in ensemble as well as they fact that >>they don't play together with quite the same synergy as HF. >But I think >>in this case it's a good thing, everything sounds kind of fresh and >>impromtu (not they don't barrel into everything headfirst anyways), >wheras... > To me, Chris's CD is focussed on group improvisation. Human Feel >is a great improvising band as well but in their last 3 CDs the >composition/improvisation as a organic whole seemed to be their focal >point. Whereas with "Yeah, No" it seems to me that Chris supplies well >thought out forms and motives that aid in the group's directions. The >main difference between the two groups is that Human Feel is dealing >with the compositions which often controls the improvisation. Chris's >band is completely free. > >> Cuong Vu is a trumpet player to watch out for. >>His solos are so totally melodic, they keep my interest every note. > >Have you heard the Saft/Vu CD on AVANT? Rumor has it that Zorn listened >to their tape over the phone for about 15 minutes, then called to buy >the rights to it that evening. > >-Sangeeta J. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:44:39 -0600 From: Brian Carlson Subject: Knitting Factory Tickets? Does anyone know if there is anywhere but the door to get tickets for Knitting Factory shows, like by phone? Do they even sell advanced tickets? Thanks. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 18:18:22 -0400 From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Tickets? Brian Carlson wrote: > Does anyone know if there is anywhere but the door to get tickets for > Knitting Factory shows, like by phone? Do they even sell advanced > tickets? > Thanks. > > Brian Contact their web site. www.knitingfactory.com. You can get tickets ahead of time, but as far as I know it only gets you in the door, there is no reserve seating. In fact, there's hardly any seating at all. Even with that, it can't be beat. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:09:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Dekoboko@aol.com Subject: Yamataka Does anyone know any info on Yamataka Eye? Anything would be very helpful. thanks... CAM.. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 05:28:47 -0400 From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) >Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring >on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo). Well, if he's on there, he's not listed in the liners. Dunn, Heifetz & Spruance are the only players listed, along with Bar McKinnon, and Kris Hendrickson on a couple of tracks. - -Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 03:59:48 -0700 (PDT) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) speaking of Eyvind Kang, did i miss it or has someone else already mentioned that he has worked with the Sun City Girls off and on? also, was his solo 7" release from a few years back the item that lead to recording with Tzadik? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:06:49 +0200 (MESZ) From: BJOERN Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) > >Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring > >on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo). > > Well, if he's on there, he's not listed in the liners. Dunn, Heifetz > & Spruance are the only players listed, along with Bar McKinnon, and > Kris Hendrickson on a couple of tracks. i think the rumour is that he is on the NEW secret chiefs 3 CD which will hopefully be released in fall BJOERN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:06:54 -0400 From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Kang (was Re: Back on Bacharach) >> >Eyvind Kang (apparently one sick puppy) is also rumoured to be featuring >> >on Trey Spruance's new Secret Chiefs 3 album (Amarillo). >> >> Well, if he's on there, he's not listed in the liners. Dunn, Heifetz >> & Spruance are the only players listed, along with Bar McKinnon, and >> Kris Hendrickson on a couple of tracks. > >i think the rumour is that he is on the NEW secret chiefs 3 CD which will >hopefully be released in fall My mistake ... - -Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 07:42:48 PDT From: "David Brunelle" Subject: Re: West Orange >(This was me):>Independent studios are rarely in nice sections of town. >> >This was not intended to be a slam on West Orange, at least not by me. I >lived, quite happily, in New Jersey at one time, despite fears that it >would permanently tar my reputation. However, studios are often in >warehouse or other rundown commercial districts, which many people would >not call the "nice" part of a town. Also, the parts of town that are not >"nice" are usually far more interesting than the ones that are "nice." This last part is very true. New Jersey often gets a bad rap based on the industrial sections by New York. I apologize for my remarks, which were based on limited travels through West Orange. Almost every toen has a "bad section". I just happen to always see theirs. Sorry for straying from more appropriate "list" talk. Dave Brunelle ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:57:28 -0700 From: SiameseZero Subject: New Zorn Page There is a new Zorn page at http://www.wen.net/kingm/zorn.html send any comments to kingm@wen.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 09:19:29 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Melvins? Patton? On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:10:54 +1000 (EST) rion noir wrote: > > > > On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:31:58 +1000, Julian wrote: > > > > While we're on the topic, why does the band come up in this list so > > much? > > What is their link to John Zorn? The only thing I know about is their > > mention in the Leng Tch'e booklet. Is there anything else? > > > When I purchased my copy of "Leng Tch'e" I was told by the sales guy that > this piece was performed by John Zorn, the Melvins & Mike Patton as > Naked City. When I questioned him, he was almost violently sure that this > was fact. Upon repeated listenings, I found that there were some places > where it sounds like it could quite definitely be Mike Patton. In others, > it sounded like Yamatsuka Eye. I'm not sure if this is an often asked > question, but some friends and I were wondering if it is either Patton or > Eye? Or perhaps both?? > > Also, one of the aforementioned friends is quite certain that it cannot > possibly be anyone other than Joey Baron who plays drums on "Leng Tch'e" > thus making the whole Melvins & Patton thing rather a tricky puzzle. I asked to both Zorn and Horvitz about that and they both denied the involvement of anybody but the regular(TM) Naked City lineup. Patrice. ------------------------------ End of zorn-list Digest V2 #110 ******************************* To subscribe to zorn-list Digest, send the command: subscribe zorn-list-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-zorn-list": subscribe zorn-list-digest local-zorn-list@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.