From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #311 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, April 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 311 In this issue: - re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter re: cujo adventures/w.shorter re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter Re: DC 2 Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #310 Re: weird? king crimson Re: Williams EMERGENCY! Re: King Crimson Re: No More Lists Re: Williams EMERGENCY! Re:Partners in subversion Re: King Crimson Re:king crimson bargain bin alert Re: Expensive discs Fwd: Faith No More ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:46:48 +0100 From: patRice Subject: re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter hi patrice! the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... patRice Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > > > & a current fave - > > Cujo-Adventures in Foam > > Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds > me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but > the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and > this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... > > Patrice. > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:15:38 +0000 From: patRice Subject: re: cujo adventures/w.shorter hi patrice! the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... patRice Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > > > & a current fave - > > Cujo-Adventures in Foam > > Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds > me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but > the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and > this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... > > Patrice. > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:46:48 +0100 From: patRice Subject: re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter hi patrice! the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... patRice Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > > > & a current fave - > > Cujo-Adventures in Foam > > Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds > me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but > the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and > this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... > > Patrice. > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:11:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: DC 2 On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Landon Thorpe wrote: > Someone sometime ago said that DC 2 inverted the > traditional role of the guitar/guitar/bass/drums lineup. The guitars use > the regularity of their repeated lines to keep time while the drums take > the "lead" role. Actually, I think both guitars and drums do a little bit > of both. Interesting observations. Supposedly the original concept behind Storm & Stress was Sonic Youth inverted in just this way. (But, according to another version of the story from the same source, the original concept was a combination of German Romanticism and GQ fashion, so . . .) Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:39:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Gretz Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #310 it's good to see someone mention Madonna's immaculate collection although i myself prefer (can't remember the name goddamit) the collection of ballads. SOmething to believe in? maybe. oh well, it's realy good and has some beautiful songs on it. jeff - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:10:09 -0500 From: "PETSITTER" Subject: Re: weird? - -----Original Message----- From: Patrice L. Roussel To: DR S WILKIE Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com ; proussel@ichips.intel.com Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 10:06 PM Subject: Re: weird? > >On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:58:14 GMT0BST DR S WILKIE wrote: >> >> anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" >> (avant 43?) > >Typo? CADENCE lists this record as having Chris Cochrane, instead of >Mike Patton. > >Yes, a typo. I wrote Cadence and asked them if they had Weird Little Boy and their answer was yes.. > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:45:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Gretz Subject: king crimson it depends on what you would be looking for out of king crimson which one to start with, prog-rock - Larks Tounges In Aspic or Starless and Bible Black heavy stuff - Red (really good, this one is just a trio of Robert Fripp, john wetton and Bill Bruford. Adrian Belew - Discipline (i don't know how to describe this really other than when you listen to this, you'll know where Primus got all of their ideas) but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's existance jeff - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:22:18 -0400 From: Alan E Kayser Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY! Jason Tors wrote: > Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? Yes, if you call what he does "singing." Just on a couple of the pieces. It does not keep this from being the ultimate garage fusion LP. When it first came out it blew minds, including mine. Never had heard anything like it, and it still sounds "far out" to me, except for those lame vocals. But don't forget that Dylan was in his prime, and if he could sing, then... John McLaughlin just rips things open, and Larry Young was doing his best to formulate a Coltrane language for the organ. Perhaps if these guys had stuck together they would have received the accolades that Miles got for"inventing" this type of music. Just this and Turn It Over document this trio, with Jack Bruce augmenting on the latter. Tony never approached this level again, IMHO. Mahavishnu came close, and Larry Young made one great LP, still not on CD, titled Lawrence of Newark. He then got caught up in some rather commercial fusion stuff, then died way before his time. Alan Kayser > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:19:01 -0400 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: King Crimson >>>>> "Ash" == Ash writes: Ash> I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists Ash> posted to the mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: Ash> What would be a good introductory album by King Crimson? Im Ash> a guitarist and am interested in good songs but also Ash> interesting playing. Also, I like Adrian Belew, what KC Ash> album with him is a good one? Thanks. Crimson fans tend to divide their work into four categories. In the first, personnel changed on each of four albums, but most of it is in fairly traditional progrock mode. Court of the Crimson King is the most famous album from this period, although Lizard made a few of the top 20 lists, and has more unusual instrumentation (woodwinds and keys) than some of the others. Keith Tippett puts in some incredible licks on their second album, Wake of Poseidon. Phase 2 starts with Larks Tongues in Aspic, the album that made the most top 20s. Absolutely incredible album, although I personally remember more dynamic range on the old vinyl than the new 'remastered' edition (maybe it was just all the tape hiss that let me know how much volume was coming). Features Jamie Muir from the Music Improvisation Company on percussion. Red (also on a number of top 20) is their final album from this period, stripped down to a trio and also very powerful. Fripp has a very famous 'one-note' guitar solo on Red. Both of these albums features long, extended pieces that are not successfully anthologized. There is also a fine new live 2-cd set, Night Watch, that contains original material that was tweaked in the studio for the middle album from this group, Starless & Bible Black, and which I would recommend as well. Can't go wrong with any of these (I'd save Starless for last though). Hiatus for six years, than three albums with Belew on guitar, Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair. Comparisons with Remain in Light Talking Heads are somewhat justified, and although I like these albums, I listen to them the least. I'd vote for Discipline from these three. Band cohesion was supposedly at a low by the time the last was recorded, and IMO it shows. This is usually referred to as the 1980s Crimson. The latest incarnation is the 1980s lineup plus another drummer and another bass/stick player. One studio album, Thrak and a live set of improvisations (their first of *all* improv), Thrakattak, both worthwhile. Their label, Discipline, is releasing live material from most of these bands. The first live set includes more versions of 21st Century Schizoid Man than any one person should have, and the sound is pretty raw. I haven't heard the recent 1990s live set. If you want a Belew Crimson album, I'd recommend Discipline or Thrak. Otherwise, I'd have to recommend Larks Tongues as their pinnacle. There's a web site and mailing list devoted to them at www.elephant-talk.com. - --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:40:15 -0700 From: "Keith McMullen" Subject: Re: No More Lists - -----Original Message----- From: m. rizzi To: Zorn Mailing List Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 4:34 PM Subject: No More Lists >Okay campers, time for the list owner to clapmpdown. Thanks for waiting until the lists were over and compiled to clamp down. I've got people asking me how TO subscribe. Back to the discussions. Keith - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:54:49 -0800 From: George Grella Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY! Jason Tors writes: > Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? Why yes, that is Tony Williams "singing" on that album! gg - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:13:17 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:Partners in subversion I think the funniest thing about the deconstructing Beck disc is also what made the damn U2 fiasco so funny. Beck himself uses samples from all over (not always cleared, either!) to create his own music. So, most of the samples used on the Deconstructiing Beck record are probably not even HIS music. You know? U2 was the same way, when at the time they were touring the world with their Zoo Tour, broadcasting TV signals to a paying audience (fairly illegal). So. Just thought it was funny, and no-one had mentioned it. Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:47:56 -0400 From: "Ch{is Barrett" Subject: Re: King Crimson At 6:54 PM 4/6/98, Ash wrote: >I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists posted to the >mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: What would be a good >introductory album by King Crimson? Im a guitarist and am interested >in good songs but also interesting playing. Also, I like Adrian >Belew, what KC album with him is a good one? Thanks. Just to add to all the Crimson posts..... It sounds like Discipline might be the disk you're looking for...both for Adrian's guitar work and, in many ways, the most inspired playing of the three 80's Crimson albums. One additional note, the double live CD B'Boom from the '94 tour offers IMHO a good overview of Adrian and the band live covering 80's material, intersting takes on the title tracks from the two 70s albums that made many top 20 lists (Red and Lark's Tongue in Aspic, pt. 2) and generally more inspired versions of tunes from Thrak (though I have to say that there is something missing on the actual Thrak album. The 30 minute EP Vroom actually sounds better to me than Thrak itself). - -Chris - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:40:30 UT From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:king crimson <> I'd have to agree with everything, except to mention that there's an earlier set of King CRimson that's very very Romantic-Prog oriented. Lots of flutes and oboes and stuff like that. There's a bazillion variations on collections for King Crimson, as Fripp seems to be unable to make up his mind what constitutes the essential Crimson. The one I have has all the good early stuff like 21st Century Schizoid Man, Ladies of the Road, Cat Food, In the Court, and some others, plus '80s stuff, but omits all the mid period, so it fits my collection perfect. Also, while I think all the 72-74 stuff is excellent (LTIA, Starless, Red), I think THRAK blows custard. But others seem to like it, so just know that there's dissenting opinion. Also, Discipline is an excellent album, very '80's sounding, but well done. The other two '80s albums are only for purists, although my Belew-head friends seem to like them, so you might also. (Although Three of a Perfect Pair is an excellent song.) PeterR - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:52:44 -0400 From: Lang Thompson Subject: bargain bin alert I'm an employee so this might be considered an improper commerical posting but what the heck. Several of the Borders stores have recently been getting some good bargain CDs buried amongst all the usual schlock. At $6 each I've bought: Tom Johnson on HatArt, Shannon Jackson's Taboo, a Roky Erickson comp, that ROIR Richard Hell disc, Anthony Davis' X, Miles/Tadd Dameron live, Sun Records country. There's been even more stuff that I didn't get to in time, like a Bill Evans import, Johnny Thunders & Heartbreakers, Glenn Branca songs, etc. Happy hunting. LT - ------------------------------------------------------ Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at Funhouse: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan obituary. "No one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. Has even grown to like it." -- Zathras - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:00:57 EDT From: Tag Yr It Subject: Re: Expensive discs Hello all, Now....I like this particular thread (and I totally enjoyed the top 20 lists, sorry I never got around to putting mine together). When I read the first post about paying a lot for discs, two things immediately came to mind for me - Quiet Sun's "Mainstream" which I found in stock at my favorite CD shop....for $37.98...the other one was Lloyd Cole's "Another Story," a collection of 7 alternate and B-side tracks, which if I remember right was around $30.00, special ordered from the same shop. Kind of related to this on the thread of luckiest finds...I bought a copy of Negativland's "U2" CD the weekend it was released, because at the time (and still) I was buying anything new that Negativland put out. Its a wonderful piece of satire and comedy that more than anything reminded me of growing up with Firesign Theatre stuff. And for those who don't know the whole story (I've read and have tons of documentation on this) the "U2" CD was withdrawn in a matter of days, and now goes for something like $150.00. I'm definitely not parting with mine though! Dale. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:23:55 EDT From: Tag Yr It Subject: Fwd: Faith No More This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_891959036_boundary Content-ID: <0_891959036@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-04-06 18:04:24 EDT, monsalve@interaccess.cl writes: << zorn-list@xmission.com >> I really see what you're saying here, and agree with it. I've grown similarly as well....however, I haven't written off Jane's Addiction at all. I still love the power of their stuff, and to me they were the 80's version of Led Zeppelin. Dale. - --part0_891959036_boundary Content-ID: <0_891959036@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v40.19) with SMTP; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 18:04:24 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id SAA27069; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yMIJb-0003tS-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:16:23 -0600 Received: from (mail.xmission.com) [198.60.22.22] by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yMIBF-0002Kg-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:07:45 -0600 Received: from (cheops.iusanet.cl) [206.48.128.150] by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yMEyg-0004AS-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:42:35 -0600 Received: from pluton.interaccess.cl (pluton.interaccess.cl [206.48.128.129]) by cheops.iusanet.cl (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA11839 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:44:52 -0400 (CST) Received: from monsalve.interaccess.cl (unverified [206.48.134.12]) by pluton.interaccess.cl (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:41:15 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: From: "Francisca" To: "Zorn" Subject: Re: Faith No More Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:27:20 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I do not mean to insult anybody's musical preferences, but I have a hard time figuring out what exactly so many of you find compelling, experiment= al and exciting about Faith No More, considering that you appreciate such a diverse range of excellent music. And I know what I'm talking about, sinc= e at one point in my life I owned 3 of their albums. But I have long since abandoned any interest in pretty pop -- along with all my rock favorites = of yore: Jane's Addiction, Metallica, Carcass, King's X, Voivod and Soundgarden's Louder Than Love. Nowadays I prefer Musica Transonic (an insane Japanese band), Caspar Brotzmann Massaker and Pussy Galore. God knows even Xenakis is far louder and wilder than any of those tame pups. =09=09=09=09=09=09Francisca P.S. Thank you to all those who have made known their favorite Art Ensemb= le of Chicago records. Monsalve@interaccess.cl - - - --part0_891959036_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #311 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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