From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #312 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, April 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 312 In this issue: - Re: reich/trane Re: Math Rock/DC II Re: cujo adventures/w.shorter Re: Partners in subversion Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20) Williams EMERGENCY! Re: reich/trane Om Kalthoum (Kalsoum) Re: FAITH NO MORE Re: FAITH NO MORE Re: Crimson Williams EMERGENCY! Re: Bargain Bin Re: king crimson Re: Bargain Bin Re: interesting small venues? Re: king crimson Re: Crimson Re: king crimson (and similarities engine) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:02:11 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: reich/trane On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > > > Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create > > unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the > > version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). > > What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it? It is basically a retrospective of Reich's music. All new interpretations of most of his compositions (few missing, such as PENDULUM MUSIC). It was supposed to be released in 1996 to celebrate his 60th birthday. But the box only came out in 1997. > btw, no one answered my Coltrane question... Is the material from the > 2-LP 'Concert In Japan' on the 4-CD 'Live In Japan'(Impulse)? A safe bet would be to say: yes. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:29:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: Math Rock/DC II On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > It looks like there's some discrepency about what "math rock" is. > I see it as tight, wacky-meter ROCK music. I dunno. > Slint, though I like them a LOT, is definitely NOT math rock. > There's nothing mathy in their appoach at all. well, assuming that "wacky" means non-4/4 time signature, haven't you contradicted your own definition? b - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:19:43 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: cujo adventures/w.shorter On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:15:38 +0000 patRice wrote: > > hi patrice! > > the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has > reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to > understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like > wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... Using other's music as sampling material is fine with me, as long you (the DJ/sampler) are adding something on top of it. These tracks reminded me as being out of a Laswell project without being touched. You don't need a sampler to do that; you just play the orginal. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:24:42 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Partners in subversion On Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:13:17 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > > I think the funniest thing about the deconstructing Beck disc is also what made > the damn U2 fiasco so funny. Beck himself uses samples from all over (not > always cleared, either!) to create his own music. So, most of the samples used > on the Deconstructiing Beck record are probably not even HIS music. You know? > U2 was the same way, when at the time they were touring the world with their Zoo > Tour, broadcasting TV signals to a paying audience (fairly illegal). So. A little bit like Dylan threatening to sue Apple because they called one of their product Dylan :-). Or Scanner to sue Bjork... Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:18:55 -0700 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20) >At 01:26 PM 4/6/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote: >> >>On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: >> >>> Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" >>> Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh >>> Hopper) >>> Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" >> >>This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more... >> > The only thing I know about these releases is that they involve Wayne >Horvitz bass veteran Fred Chalenor (Zony Mash, Pigpen, etc.). > Was waiting for someone else to chime in on this thread, but here goes... Caveman Shoestore was Fred Chalenor(bass), Henry Franzoni(drums) and Elaine DiFalco(vocals, keys). Fred and Henry were in numerous Northwest experimental/improv rock bands including Face Ditch, Boodlers, and the best live, though never recorded, version of the Tone Dogs. They released 2 albums as Caveman (Master Cylinder and Flux), and a third as Caveman Hughscore, which added ex-Soft Machine bassist and composer Hugh Hopper. Caveman Split up a couple of years ago, but Fred, Elaine and Hugh Hopper continued collaborating, and recently released a CD as just "Hughscore". Fred also plays with Zony Mash, Freestyle Candela and many other Seattle bands, and is one of the best electric bassists on the planet, in my opinion. Henry currently plays in Minus, with a CD on New & Improv Music. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600 From: Jason Tors Subject: Williams EMERGENCY! Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:04:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw Subject: Re: reich/trane On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > > > > > Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create > > > unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the > > > version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). > > > > What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it? > > It is basically a retrospective of Reich's music. All new interpretations of > most of his compositions (few missing, such as PENDULUM MUSIC). ... Actually, only *some* of the pieces are new interpretations - I can't remember which ones right now and the box is at home. Here's a list of what's in the box: Three Movements Electric Counterpoint Different Trains The Cave: Excerpt(s) Proverb Nagoya Marimbas City Life Come Out Piano Phase It's Gonna Rain Four Organs Drumming Music for Mallet Instruments, Voices and Electric Organ Clapping Music Six Marimbas Music for 18 Musicians Eight Lines Tehillim Desert Music New York Counterpoint Sextet The Four Sections Hope this helps.... cya brian - -------------------------------------------------------- "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:12:27 -0400 From: WALTER_MACKEIGAN@HP-Canada-om1.om.hp.com Subject: Om Kalthoum (Kalsoum) from an earlier posting: >From: John McMahon >Subject: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) >Hi! >What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? >Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW? >Cheers, >John McMahon, >no longer lurking. >Now Playing (CDs): >Om Kalsoum: "Hajartek" (when I started writing this) First some bargain bin pickups: Weather Report: Heavy Weather A Woolco bargain bin. 99cents. circa 1979 Synergy: Audion (Larry Fast stuff) Sam the Record Man in Thunderbay, Ontario. $1.49.circa 1983 Some original Gramophone Company of India (Odeon) lps from the mid 60's to the early seventies including Zakair Hussain, Bismahli Khan, and Ravi Shankar. Got these back in 1986 at my fav Indian grocery store for $1.99 each. All new in their krinkly plastic wrap and 'psycho-delic' covers. Now a question about John' McMahon's great taste in music. I see that you like to play Om Kalsoum (Omme Kalthoum). I 'discovered' her music in a local (Ottawa, Canada) taxi. The driver played her "Etna Omrey(You are my Life)" tape. I now have that tape and a CD called "Diva" which is a compilation of her 78's from the 20's , 30's and 40's. Marvelous! What other stuff is out on CD that features this powerful Egyptian Chanteuse. What am I missing besides Harjatek? sorry for the non-Zorn content. but ya's gotta hear this woman, ya jus gotta! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:18:30 -0300 From: Lucio Subject: Re: FAITH NO MORE I think many chose FNM in their lists because it's similar to Zorn in a way. Both keep trying new things every time and have a strong sense of humour. When Zorn goes from playing "The Sicilian Clan" to "Ujaku" in Naked City, FNM do the same in Angel Dust with "Jizzlober and "Midnight Cowboy" or "Caralho Voador" and "Ugly in the Morning" in KFAD. When you ask what's so experimental about FNM just listen to some of their tracks. Are they a "heavy rock" band? (Caffeine, Surprise!You're Dead!, Malpractice) A "pop group"? (She Loves Me Not, Take this Bottle, Just a Man) Do they do "dance music"? (Last Cup of Sorrow Bonehead Mix, A Small Victory r-evolution 23 full moon mix, Ashes to Ashes Dillinja Mix) Are they into "trip hop"? (Stripsearch, Pristina Billy Gould Mix) Jazz? (Star AD) Rap? (Epic) And the musical styles go on and on... - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:34:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: FAITH NO MORE On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Lucio wrote: > When you ask what's so experimental about FNM just listen to some of > their tracks. Are they a "heavy rock" band? (Caffeine, Surprise!You're > Dead!, Malpractice) A "pop group"? (She Loves Me Not, Take this Bottle, > Just a Man) Do they do "dance music"? (Last Cup of Sorrow Bonehead Mix, > A Small Victory r-evolution 23 full moon mix, Ashes to Ashes Dillinja > Mix) Are they into "trip hop"? (Stripsearch, Pristina Billy Gould Mix) > Jazz? (Star AD) Rap? (Epic) And the musical styles go on and on... that makes them eclectic, which isn't necessarily the same thing as experimental. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:25:14 GMT0BST From: DR S WILKIE Subject: Re: Crimson I'm intrigued that Caleb Dupree, in an otherwise comprehensive Crimson rundown, omits entirely any mention of Earthbound (which must be mark 1), which is a kick butt, live and groovy, funked up piece of jazzy R'n'B improv mayhem. (Some people think it's garbage but they're wrong). Then, he omits completely the BEST album by Crimson mark II, the Kick butt, live and groovy, (etc. but different) USA. This is where Larks' Tongues comes alive! And you need to hear this band play Schizoid Man, don't you? B'Boom is all right, but it doesn't even come close to licking the decals off the above two. Groon! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600 From: Jason Tors Subject: Williams EMERGENCY! Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:38:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Bargain Bin from an earlier posting: > > >What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? When I was in college, in the late '70s, our local record store, Cheap Thrills in New Brinswick, NJ, was the main dumping group for Jem Records' import overstock. So I got just about the complete works up to that time of King Crimson, Eno, and oodles and oodles of related stuff for no more than $2.99 apiece. Nyaa nyaa :-) Two others: - - One disk of Miles Davis's "Pangaea" in Japanese vinyl import in the mid 80s for 99 cents. - - Ornette Coleman's "Skies of America" at K-Mart in Toms River, NJ, for 25 cents. - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:43:27 +0200 (MESZ) From: BJOERN Subject: Re: king crimson > but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of > all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's > existance NO!!! i cant agree on that... if you ask me what to start with: best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red best adrian belew: vroooom ep if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd ) BJOERN - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:46:15 -0500 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Bargain Bin I found a Tim Berne Caos Totale and a Michael Formanek disc, both on CD, for $4.99 at some store in Cambridge, MA. They also had two copies of a Henry Cow LP of which I got one for no more than a couple of bucks. I don't know why anyone cares about my scores though... Dan - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:51:52 -0500 From: Rusty Crump Subject: Re: interesting small venues? >Hi, new to the list, excuse the slightly irrelevant first posting: > >Someone who books gigs for God is My Copilot (not sure if they've featured >on anyone's top 20?) wants suggestions for small innovative venues in >Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, and Toronto. Where are good places to hear >interesting gigs? Newly arrived in Canada, I've also got a vested >interest in finding this out... > >Fiona > > >- Barristers in Memphis has been known to present some good shows over the past few years, now that the Antenna Club is no more. Masada played there, Zony Mash played there... Sheep on Drugs... the Jesus Lizard, recently (very disappointing show, by the way. The opening band, The Diarrhea of Anne Frank, was more interesting.) A guy named Chris Walker has been putting on some great shows in Memphisto, and for a while Barristers was his venue. Chris is also doing shows at the Young Avenue Deli now, if I'm not mistaken. (He booked the recent Polvo and Eugene Chadbourne shows there, I think.) Anyway, in Memphis it seems the venue is secondary to the promoter: good promoter (like Chris), good show, no matter where it winds up being. The Antenna Club is now a lesbian bar, and the Oblivians have played there live since it stopped being the Antenna, and now that I think about it, that might be a fun venue for GodCo to play. Here in Oxford, Proud Larry's used to do great shows (Medeski, Martin & Wood; Dick Dale; Ween), and still could, if only there were someone who knew anything about music booking for them. The music-minded of the two owners moved back to Atlanta last year to look after his mother after his father was killed in a plane crash. So while there's still great food there, the live music leaves a lot to be desired. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:50:48 -0600 (CST) From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: Re: king crimson I started with the Compact King Crimson, which had Red, 21st Century Schizoid Man, and a bunch from the 80s band. As it turned out, I liked the 70s Red-period best, but I agree that a retrospective is probably the best idea for this band, whose music is so varied. On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, BJOERN wrote: > > but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of > > all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's > > existance > NO!!! i cant agree on that... > > if you ask me what to start with: > > best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red > best adrian belew: vroooom ep > > if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s > guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd ) > > BJOERN > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:53:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Crimson On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > I'm intrigued that Caleb Dupree, in an otherwise comprehensive > Crimson rundown, omits entirely any mention of Earthbound > (which must be mark 1), which is a kick butt, live and > groovy, funked up piece of jazzy R'n'B improv mayhem. (Some people > think it's garbage but they're wrong). Then, he omits completely the > BEST album by Crimson mark II, the Kick butt, live and groovy, (etc. > but different) USA. This is where Larks' Tongues comes alive! I'm intrigued that you chose these too. "Earthbound" is a muddy mess, and "USA" is far from Mark 2 at their best. Rather than USA, check out the recent double-disc "The Night Watch", which kicks it to hellandback. (I don't think I'd call the Earthbound band either mark 1 or mark 2; it was the document of a short-lived aberration that (other than Fripp) had little connection with its predecessor or follower. The players sound like they're straining to get out from under the prog material, though they do succeed in wrestling some of it to the ground.) - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:56:04 -0500 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: king crimson (and similarities engine) Has anyone mentioned "Lizard?" A few years ago when there was this web site called the "Similarities Engine" (which was amazing by the way) I put in my five albums and King Crimson Lizard was on there. I went out an bought it blindly and I really enjoy it. For those of you who don't know what the similarities engine is I'll explain briefly. It was a web site where you would put in your top five favorite albums and a few days later it would email you a list of rated recommendations. The recs were rated with a number that was meant to say how much you would like it. I was really amazed; some of the recs were albums I already had and liked and others were ones that I didn't have and I went out and got them and I liked them. Anyhow, that didn't last long and it became a thing where you would pick one album and it would give you a recommendation list but that was pretty lame. I looked at the guys webpage the other day and he said he sold the technology to a company called Firefly (don't quote me on this one) and they apparently haven't done anything useful with it yet. I really hope they do though, the similarites engine was absolutely mind-blowing. Dan At 11:43 AM -0500 4/7/98, BJOERN wrote: >> but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a >>culmination of >> all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's >> existance >NO!!! i cant agree on that... > >if you ask me what to start with: > >best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red >best adrian belew: vroooom ep > >if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s >guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd ) > >BJOERN > >- - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #312 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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