From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #413 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, July 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 413 In this issue: - Re: postmodernism Re: postmodernism REMINDER : Frith / Ochs / Masaoka in Chicago Tonight Re: Percussion Re: Percussion Re: Percussion Experimenta David Shea at (or near) Lincoln Center Re: postmodernism details search - Shipp / Ware postmodernism The Muffins Panthalassa redux Re: The Muffins Re: Postmodern ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:02:47 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: postmodernism J.T. de Boer wrote: [Funniest thing I've seen since the Serialist/WWII coding satire snipped] As far as I'm concerned, JT, you are hereby pardoned from any past or future references to soccer on this list. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 06:45:59 -0800 From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: postmodernism "J.T. de Boer" wrote: > >Dear members, > >I visit alt.postmodern regurlarly and I read the following message >from talkshow-host Jenny Jones. Did the opinion of R. Rorty really >have an impact on academic life in the US? In Europe the discussion >about postmodernism in this form is old news. I'm interested in your >views about the issue. Is the music of Zorn/contemorary composers in >general, relevant in the case of discussing postmodernism? Is all >the music of Zorn to be seen in a postmodern context? Do postmodern >theories give the music of Zorn more impact? How does Zorn feel about >his music to be seen in a postmodern context? Does he use it (either >negative or positive)? Questions, questions, questions... > >Here's the article first: Uh, this text is a parody of a kind of television talk show seen in the US that may not be readily available in Europe. It's not a real transcript of a real program, just a joke. It was originally published on the editorial pages of the New York Times & has been circulating on the Internet for a little more than a year. To answer some of your questions, though, Richard Rorty is a philosopher who is taken seriously by many academics, at least in the US. The opinion reported in the article you quote is not paticularly typical of his serious work, it was a statement made to a newspaper surveying academics about their thoughts on the relevancy of postmodernism now that the term is commonly used in talk shows, advertising, pop song lyrics, etc. Zorn & other contemporary music has been sometimes been discussed in terms of postmodernism both on this list and in more rigorously academic situations from time to time and, frankly, the discussions often prove Rorty's point that the word "postmodernism" means a lot of different things to different people, with little commonality among the definitions. I'd guess, given his general sense that critics don't know much about music, that Zorn probably doesn't care for the concept as a description of his work. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:37:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Paul Audino Subject: REMINDER : Frith / Ochs / Masaoka in Chicago Tonight Hey everybody, Just a reminder that Fred Frith, Larry Ochs (from ROVA) and Miya Masaoka will being playing tonight at Unity Temple in suburban Oak Park. This will be the second night of a two-night stand. I was there yesterday, and it was great : two long sets (45-50 minutes) of improv. It was wonderful watching Frith do all kinds of things to his guitar (paint brushes, drum sticks, chains, fabrics, etc.). On a sad note, this may well be the final concert at Unity Temple, a unique space that has garnered quite a reputation over the past two years. Chicago concertgoers are probably aware of the great artists that have passed through the doors of the temple, including Frith (his first Chicago appearance in a decade), Peter Brotzmann, Dave Douglas, The Sun Ra Arkestra, John Tchai and may others. Concert starts at 8. $18 adults/$12 students. See www.math.uic.edu/creative for directions. And tell your friends. Paul psaudino@interaccess.com GROOVE - ---------- One Nation - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:59:54 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Re: Percussion Glad to see Nana Vasconcelos got a mention here, as he often brings an abundance of both charm and depth to his various settings. Danca Das Cabecas, under Egberto Gismonti's name is superb, and another ECM album of duets between the two, Duas Voces also has some gorgeous moments. I'm trying to resist saying more about Gismonti, and I'll limit myself at this time to this understatement: He is one of my favorite living musicians. Complete, unique, very personal, listenable (not to mention a virtuoso on both guitar and piano). It's hard to go wrong with any of his ECMs. As for Nana, my favorites under his name are Saudades (ECM)(solo except for one cut with Gismonti and string orchestra) and Lester (Soul Note) (folk-tinted duets with Italian accordianist and pianist Antonello Salis). And, of course, his three Codona albums on ECM (with Don Cherry and Colin Walcott, who turns in some fine tabla work). Speaking of tabla, Zakir Hussein, of course. I promise, I do have some records that aren't ECM, but I like Hussein's Making Music on that label. I'm interested in other recommendations on Hussein (I have the Shakti stuff, and a couple led by Shankar). That said, the committed traveler into the heart of percussion IMHO must spend some time with Harry Partch, who invented and built his own instruments, his own scales, his own concept of music and sound and technique. "Their records were recovered, but their motives not revealed.'' - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:59:54 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Re: Percussion Glad to see Nana Vasconcelos got a mention here, as he often brings an abundance of both charm and depth to his various settings. Danca Das Cabecas, under Egberto Gismonti's name is superb, and another ECM album of duets between the two, Duas Voces also has some gorgeous moments. I'm trying to resist saying more about Gismonti, and I'll limit myself at this time to this understatement: He is one of my favorite living musicians. Complete, unique, very personal, listenable (not to mention a virtuoso on both guitar and piano). It's hard to go wrong with any of his ECMs. As for Nana, my favorites under his name are Saudades (ECM)(solo except for one cut with Gismonti and string orchestra) and Lester (Soul Note) (folk-tinted duets with Italian accordianist and pianist Antonello Salis). And, of course, his three Codona albums on ECM (with Don Cherry and Colin Walcott, who turns in some fine tabla work). Speaking of tabla, Zakir Hussein, of course. I promise, I do have some records that aren't ECM, but I like Hussein's Making Music on that label. I'm interested in other recommendations on Hussein (I have the Shakti stuff, and a couple led by Shankar). That said, the committed traveler into the heart of percussion IMHO must spend some time with Harry Partch, who invented and built his own instruments, his own scales, his own concept of music and sound and technique. "Their records were recovered, but their motives not revealed.'' - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:04:51 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Re: Percussion Glad to see Nana Vasconcelos got a mention here, as he often brings an abundance of both charm and depth to his various settings. Danca Das Cabecas, under Egberto Gismonti's name is superb, and another ECM album of duets between the two, Duas Voces also has some gorgeous moments. I'm trying to resist saying more about Gismonti, and I'll limit myself at this time to this understatement: He is one of my favorite living musicians. Complete, unique, very personal, listenable (not to mention a virtuoso on both guitar and piano). It's hard to go wrong with any of his ECMs. As for Nana, my favorites under his name are Saudades (ECM)(solo except for one cut with Gismonti and string orchestra) and Lester (Soul Note) (folk-tinted duets with Italian accordianist and pianist Antonello Salis). And, of course, his three Codona albums on ECM (with Don Cherry and Colin Walcott, who turns in some fine tabla work). Speaking of tabla, Zakir Hussein, of course. I promise, I do have some records that aren't ECM, but I like Hussein's Making Music on that label. I'm interested in other recommendations on Hussein (I have the Shakti stuff, and a couple led by Shankar). That said, the committed traveler into the heart of percussion IMHO must spend some time with Harry Partch, who invented and built his own instruments, his own scales, his own concept of music and sound and technique. "Their records were recovered, but their motives not revealed.'' - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:15:16 -0300 (GMT-0300) From: perojo@unsl.edu.ar Subject: Experimenta well experimenta 98 in B.A. was cancellated, check the info .. /.Pablo. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 20:54:30 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: David Shea at (or near) Lincoln Center As part of its New York Video Festival this month, Lincoln Center is showing the following videos at the Walter Reade Theater on B'Way and 63rd on Tuesday, July 21 at 8:30PM and Wednesday, July 22 at 4PM: Dissing DARE Les Leveque USA 1997 Sub Accident Seth Price USA 1997 dial H-I-S-T-O-R-Y Johan Grimonprez Belgium 1997 The last is a 68 minute piece featuring a live performance by David Shea and incorporating text from Don DeLillo. Tix are $8.50. Phillip Johnston's Transparent Quartet is also doing live music for a silent Japanese film, 'Page of Madness' July 9 & 10. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:57:48 -0500 From: "Eric C. Honour, Jr." Subject: Re: postmodernism >Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:11:22 +0200 >From: "J.T. de Boer" >Subject: postmodernism > >Dear members, > >I visit alt.postmodern regurlarly and I read the following message >from talkshow-host Jenny Jones. Did the opinion of R. Rorty really >have an impact on academic life in the US? I think that most of the academics in the U.S. with whom I am familiar are far too busy discussing this year's World Cup match-up between (who is it again?) Upper Voltaire and East Madagascar to get swept up in any sort of mass-media debunking of postmodernism. >In Europe the discussion >about postmodernism in this form is old news. I'm interested in your >views about the issue. Is the music of Zorn/contemorary composers in >general, relevant in the case of discussing postmodernism? Is all >the music of Zorn to be seen in a postmodern context? Do postmodern >theories give the music of Zorn more impact? How does Zorn feel about >his music to be seen in a postmodern context? Does he use it (either >negative or positive)? Questions, questions, questions... I think that, to answer these questions in the true spirit of postmodernism, I'd have to say "what's the difference?" All choices are equally valuable, as are all interpretations. I mean, you aren't going to tell me that Ligeti's music is any better than oh, say, a couple of guys getting up and playing a bunch of noise in a NYC night club like the Knitting Factory, are you? Frankly, I can't see why postmodernists bother to do anything at all. I guess you could make a case for trying to convert people to their point of view, but isn't the case made just as well by random stimulus? I mean, if everything is of equal value, which _is_ carrying the argument to extremes, of course, why expend the effort? Getting back to Finale (tm), Eric P.S. BTW, to avoid insult to you, I'm assuming that you are familiar with Jenny Jones's show and recognize the post as a (very) humorous fabrication. - -------------------------- Eric C. Honour, Jr. Composer * Saxophonist * Graphic Designer MMus (Saxophone Performance and Composition) Northwestern University MrTheory@no.spam.nwu.edu http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~ech580/ - -------------------------- "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman she meets, then teams up with three complete strangers to kill again." - -- TV listing for "The Wizard of Oz" in the Marin Paper "Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes." --bumper sticker - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 13:23:14 -0300 From: Rick Lopez Subject: details search - Shipp / Ware Details search for the Matthew Shipp & David S. Ware Discographies: [Much of this info requires "inside" knowledge, so if you have pertinent contacts with label reps, session producers, musicians involved, recording engineers, etc., I'd be grateful.] SHIPP: - --- Knitting Factory Presents What Is Jazz? * Need date for recording of solo piano session. June ?? 1996 - --- Silkheart Sampler * Need ALL info. - --- Shipp & Rob Brown / Sonic Explorations / CJR 1037 Live venue or studio / city & country * Sessions on Feb 14 and Nov 19. Same Place?? - -- Shipp Duo w/ William Parker / ZO Date * None listed on disc - --- Shipp / Flow of X Composer credits; Date * None listed on disc - --- Ivo Perelman & Shipp / Bendito of Santa Cruz Live venue or studio in Brooklyn, NY (Systems Two?) * None listed on disc - --- Shipp duo w/ Roscoe Mitchell / 2-Z Date * None listed on disc - --- Shipp / Circular Temple / Infinite Zero Records * Originally on Quinton Records-- need issue #, release date, same tracks as CD? - --- Ahmed Abdullan and the Solomonic Quintet / Silkheart * CD release date. (none listed) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ WARE: - --- Andrew Cyrille and Maono / Junction * Need ALL info. - --- DS Ware & Barry Harris Duet (1977?) (Title?) * Need ALL info. - --- DS Ware / From Silence to Music / Palm * Need ALL info. - --- William Hooker Trio / His Eternal Life (title correct?) RUC-444 Track; Track Time; Composer credit * Exact date? February ?? 1976 * Langston Hughes Library is where? - --- Also need release dates for pertinent Silkheart vinyl w/ Shipp & Ware- SHLP 109; 113; 127; 128; 129; 145 - --- ***Anyone finding sessions I'm missing will be given extra credit*** This is my format: Leader / Title Label / issue # / media / release date / country Session Date Live Venue or Studio City, country track titles / composer / matrix or take #s when available / time Personnel / detailed instrumentation Notes of interest, links, etc. I'm looking to gather *all* of the above info on each and every session. Anyone having access or knowledge of the whereabouts of items "not in my collection" that are out-of-print or not readily available from Cadence, please let me know. I'm also interested in pointers to articles, reviews, book citations, links, or any obscurities you might have a line on. Thanks for your time, Rick Lopez - -- Marilyn Crispell, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies; Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; etc., at-- http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:01:29 -0600 From: dennis summers Subject: postmodernism The funniest thing I've read in ages, thanx for posting it, it would have been worth it even without the tangential Zorn reference. This is being copied and sent out to all my friends. Yours in zornocitous postmodernism --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 15:31:09 -0400 From: Richard C Williams Subject: The Muffins To anyone and everyone old enough to remember, (and those with great record collections) : The Muffins are in fact doing a show at Cheif Ike's Mambo Room in the Adams Morgan, DC area. 1725 Columbia Road. The full quartet as heard on Manna Mirage and 185 , Open City, etc., will be there. July 16th, doors open at 8pm $7 cover. With DCs Vector. Please pass this on freely to as many folks as you can! Woo-Hoo!! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:36:41 EDT From: Subject: Panthalassa redux Greetings all.... Today I bought and have been listening to Bill Laswell’s Sacred System Chapter Two. While Panthalassa would probably be catagorically considered jazz and Sacred System dub, I’m struck by the similarity of the material (no pun intended). Sacred System is less busy, but to my ears, much more interesting than what Laswell did with/to Davis. It also seems likely that they overlap chronologically - Sacred System was recorded in 1997. I’m thinking its because other musicians were involved in the creating of Sacred System - the approach is similarto the Davis material, as is the instrumentation, but there seems to be a lot more of interest going on to my ears. Your mileage my vary. Dale. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:16:02 EDT From: Subject: Re: The Muffins In a message dated 7/5/98 3:30:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, punkjazz@snet.net writes: << The Muffins are in fact doing a show at Cheif Ike's Mambo Room in the Adams Morgan, DC area. 1725 Columbia Road. The full quartet as heard on Manna Mirage and 185 , Open City, etc., will be there. >> That's great to hear. The last time I talked to bassist Billy Swan, he was talking about a reunion tour to support the re-issue of _185_ (!) on Cuneiform. That was a while ago, and I haven't run into him since. He plays with a couple of improv ensembles on occasion in Columbia, SC, and "was" playing in a country band around here called "The Abilenes." From what I hear, the reunion took this long to happen because everyone lost touch with Dave Newhouse for a couple of years. spinning: Scorn- Logghi Barogghi =dgasque= - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:55:29 GMT0BST From: DR S WILKIE Subject: Re: Postmodern J.T. De Boer asked (among other things): >Do postmodern theories give the music of Zorn more impact? No. But a decent stereo does. Seriously now, Adorno argues that music can only be authentic (well, perhaps he doesn't use that word, as it would sound like the existentialism he attacks, but I'd argue that the idea is the same) by being addressed to the process of commodification (in English, that it must stand up against all aspects of the market place in which it finds itself). So, those of such a mind then notice that a good deal of "alternative" music is, occasionally at least, self- conscious of its commodity status (this is argued endlessly about Zappa). While that's true, I hardly think this the only or the best source of value in the music. Nor do I think Adorno's theories, in this sphere, very helpful. It amounts to a kind of aesthetic ultra- leftism ... as though, musically, we could purify ourselves of capitalism, and as though only something untainted by this unsavoury world (in which we nonetheless have to live and play our music) could truly criticise that world. Hoo-hah! Remember, the teachers, too, must be educated! Sean Wilkie PS I think Stam fouled Ortega. But I was rooting for the Dutch. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #413 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com