From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #481 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, September 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 481 In this issue: - saxello Hypocrisy? re 'who cares/patiently awaiting' Re: Hypocrisy? Re[2]: Recent Reading: Phil Dick valis I for sale Re: Hypocrisy? Evguenie Sokolov by Serge Gainsbourg Re: Re: Hypocrisy? Re: Hypocrisy? Re: Hypocrisy? Off topic Actual Post Regarding Zorn Re: Lethem, Powers, Delaney Re: Hypocrisy? masada question If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:03:22 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: saxello I've been listening to the new World Sax CD, "Selim Sivad,'' (very pleasant -- they finally have a seamless relationship with the African drummers). The new sax guy -- the fourth since Hemphill left -- is John Purcell (concidence that Jack Dejohnette plays piano on two cuts -- those two arranged by his former sideman?) Anyway, my question is this: Purcell is listed as playing saxello. What is a saxello? It sounds like there's a soprano sax in the mix so I suspect it has something of the range and tone of a soprano, but I'd like to know more about it. I think the manzello and stritch are straight versions of the tenor and alto (or is it alto and tenor?). But the saxello? Re: Shorter's "Orgasm'' -- $100 for vinyl? I found a near perfect vinyl copy a few years ago for $1.99, which I would gladly give up for $50 (then buy the CD). Unfortunately, it's in a Steve Martin (the comedian) jacket. (Martin has a fake nose and balloon on his head). But I'm glad I'm not the guy who pulled out his "Orgasm" cover to find Martin inside.... - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:17:01 -0500 From: Craig Rath Subject: Hypocrisy? Is anyone else here amused by the fact that Gene Natalia (Ethan?) ranted at length about how much he hated all the off-topic discussion about arrangement of collections, and yet here he is contributing to an even more off-topic discussion about Science Fiction? At least with the collection arrangement there was a connection (albeit somewhat tenuous) to Zorn's music. The only direct musical connection I know to Philip K. Dick is through Gary Numan. Personally I couldn't care less what topic people want to discuss. I have a delete key and I know how to use it. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:25:23 -0400 From: Bob Kowalski Subject: re 'who cares/patiently awaiting' Haven't read 99 % of this thread thanks to digest format of zorn list offered. With other listservs a digest format cuts messages to a crawl. For the Zorn listserv I am in serious need of digest version of the digest list... On the other hand, the fans' imitation of the composer's voluminous output of material is amusing I suppose. happy listening Bob - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:29:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Hypocrisy? On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Craig Rath wrote: > Is anyone else here amused by the fact that Gene Natalia (Ethan?) ranted at > length about how much he hated all the off-topic discussion about > arrangement of collections, and yet here he is contributing to an even more > off-topic discussion about Science Fiction? At least with the collection > arrangement there was a connection (albeit somewhat tenuous) to Zorn's > music. The only direct musical connection I know to Philip K. Dick is > through Gary Numan. So now we're stumbling through the minefields where the gripes of Rath are stored?-) There are actually several more interesting connections to PKDick. The Mabou Mines performance group, for whom Zorn composed "The Bribe", did a fascinating theatrical production of his "Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said" (though I don't recall who did the music for it). As others have noted, Bill Laswell has named several CDs after his works. Tod Machover did an opera of his "Valis". FWIW, I tend to shelves his books according to how closely the titles sound like the syllable "STOMP". - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:36:36 -0400 From: "Chris Barrett" Subject: Re[2]: Recent Reading: Phil Dick As long as we're on the Philip K. Dick thread, I wonder if anyone has read any of his non-Sci-Fi output. I have one short novel called "Mary and the Giant" which is about a man in the 1950's who moves to either the south west or the Southern Californian desert in the '50s (I can't remember where, it's been a while since I read it) to open his lifelong dream of a record store for collectors. It kind of reminds me of a poorman's Steinbeck, but not quite as bleak. It also has one of my favorite Dick quotes, "Anyone can love music. It's what not to like you have to learn," or something to that effect. (I know, I know, for one of my favorite quotes you'd think I could remember it exactly). Does anybody know of any other non-Sci-Fi works? - -Chris PS 2 of hsi sci-fi works that I thought were pretty good but didn't see mentioned were "The World Jones Made" and "Now Wait For Last Year" - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:21:33 -0600 From: "M. Lewis" Subject: valis I for sale >At 12:22 AM 9/28/98 -0700, Gene Natalia wrote: >>Incidentally, there is a 2 disc experimental hip hop compilation called >>Valis II, put together by Bill Laswell, I think... >There was also a Valis I, briefly available on Subharmonic. i have "valis I" for sale if anyone is interested - -louie - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:30:58 -0700 From: Gene Natalia Subject: Re: Hypocrisy? At 01:17 PM 9/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >Is anyone else here amused by the fact that Gene Natalia (Ethan?) ranted at >length about how much he hated all the off-topic discussion about >arrangement of collections, and yet here he is contributing to an even more >off-topic discussion about Science Fiction? At least with the collection >arrangement there was a connection (albeit somewhat tenuous) to Zorn's >music. The only direct musical connection I know to Philip K. Dick is >through Gary Numan. > >Personally I couldn't care less what topic people want to discuss. I have >a delete key and I know how to use it. > Obviously, you were unable to understand my post. I never mentioned anything about "off-topic." My lengthy rant was about redundancy and the seeming need that many people have to say something just to say something, regardless of whether that something has worth to any but themselves. And I did TRY to tie the Dick/SF thread back into "relevancy" of the list by mentioning the Valis II compilation. Maybe you should read more carefully, before you attack someone directly. I think we all know how to use a delete key, but thanks for reminding us all about it, pal. Ethan - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT) From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Evguenie Sokolov by Serge Gainsbourg Dear Zorn people, This is the first title of my publishing venture. It maybe some interest to list members. For those who are not interested - forgive me for sending it out on the list! Evguenie Sokolov by Serge Gainsbourg (1928-1991) ISBN 0-9662346-1-8 Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 97-80957 Translated from the French by John and Doreen Weightman This is the one and only novel by the 20th century provocateur of French pop music and film - the legendary Serge Gainsbourg . This prototype lusty punk tore into the threads of French society with his numerous films, music projects, and outlandish persona. He made recordings with Brigitte Bardot, Jane Birkin and a scandalous recording of "Lemon Incest" with his own daughter Charlotte. If that wasn't bad enough, he told Whitney Houston live on French TV that he would love 'to fuck' her. Evguenie Sokolov is a novel about an artist who uses his intestinal gases as the medium for his scandalous artwork. What once was a huge smelly and noisy problem in his social and sex life becomes a tool for success in the early eighties art world. Please note that there is also a song by Gainsbourg called Evguenie Sokolov of farting noises over a reggae track. Some quotes about Gainsbourg and the novel: "Gainsbourg is both the best and the worst, yin and yang, white and black. This Jewish little Prince from Russia whose dreams were probably fueled by Andersen, Perrault and Grimm, became, when confronted by the tragic reality of life, a moving or repugnant Quasimodo, depending on his and your state of mind. Hidden deep within this fragile, shy and aggressive man lies the soul of a poet craving tenderness, truth and integrity." Brigitte Bardot "Serge Gainsbourg is one of the world's great eccentrics. His kinky obsessions, smothering fashion with tastelessness have catapulted him into super stardom in France. This is his only novel and you have never read anything like it Evgueine Sokolov will make you squirm. It will make you laugh. It also may very well make you sick. Gainsbourg's vision is his own: authentic and convulsive. But don't forget to hold your nose." John Zorn Gainsbourg takes one childish, cheap and tasteless one-joke idea and manages to keep it entertaining enough to last for a whole book. he has an envious command of adjectives and adverbs." Mark Webber, Pulp For those who are interested, this book can be special ordered thru Amazon and Barnes & Noble website as well as thru your local independent bookstore. Thanks, - ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books - ---------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:59:16 EDT From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Hypocrisy? allthough i must admit i was disapointed that "who cares" was not from the notorious nightclub crawler and sometime calvin klien model who also goes by Gene Natalia (or the simular Jenny Talia), i agree with ehan that the bulk of this list is crap. no conversation about music or aesthitics other than high school lunch room drivel about "gee did you get the new album? it's great." the biggest debate has boiled down to the same old "i'm cooler than you" shite common to lockerooms. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:54:44 EDT From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Hypocrisy? In a message dated 98-09-28 18:05:37 EDT, Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com writes: << i agree with ehan that the bulk of this list is crap >> While being just this side of a hearty "fuck you," may I suggest, if you don't like it here, get your own list. Dale. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:05:41 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Hypocrisy? On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:59:16 EDT Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com wrote: > > allthough i must admit i was disapointed that "who cares" was not from the > notorious nightclub crawler and sometime calvin klien model who also goes by > Gene Natalia (or the simular Jenny Talia), i agree with ehan that the bulk of > this list is crap. no conversation about music or aesthitics other than high > school lunch room drivel about "gee did you get the new album? it's great." > the biggest debate has boiled down to the same old "i'm cooler than you" shite > common to lockerooms. You are absolutely right: if all the smart persons that lurk on the list were expressing their great opinions and deep insights, yes, the list would be better. Unfortunately, they seem to have a hard time to leave the "consummer seat" and, in the rare occasions during which they reveal their existence, they do not seem to be able to do more than complaining... Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:33:00 -0700 From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Off topic Just finished the last digest. Not a single mention of music! (Let alone Zorn.) Wonder what the newcomer might think. Call it initiation into the Zornlist, where anything goes -- and where we aren't such geeks that we only talk about abstract music. :-) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:48:56 -0400 From: Kevin Neales Subject: Actual Post Regarding Zorn I just got back from a weekend in New York. I was lucky enough to see 3 sets of Masada at Tonic and Marc Ribot at the Knitting Factory. Not to get anyone's hopes up, but on the last night of Masada there was a professional video crew there filming and recording the show. I have no idea where or if this footage will show up. Also, I know this was covered before, but when I was in New York I bought a copy of the special edition box Praxis-Metatron. How rare is this. This is the first time that I had actually seen one for sale. Later, Kevin N. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:09:20 -0400 From: Circle9 Subject: Re: Lethem, Powers, Delaney I read Delaney's "Hogg" about a year ago- I thought it started very strongly, and Hogg's monolgue where he introduces himself is downright hilarious, but as it progressed I felt it all start to read the same- one violent sex scene after another. Like trashy "erotica", only alot more violence. It's shock value died very quickly. Every sexual "encounter" was pretty much the same. Tim Powers I like a great deal- his "Expiration Date really knocked my socks off. Also, I'm glad to see Jonathan Lethem's name pop up. I read "As She Climbed Across the Table" a couple of months back and thought it was phenom. It's kind of a love triangle between a man, a woman, and a black hole. Really neat, and definately a strong PKD influence- though I get the impression JL is abit more of a romantic, and not quite as batty. Of course I mean "batty" as the highest possible compliment... -S - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:18:08 -0700 (MST) From: Corey Marc Fogel Subject: Re: Hypocrisy? On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > You are absolutely right: if all the smart persons that lurk on the list were > expressing their great opinions and deep insights, yes, the list would be > better. > > Unfortunately, they seem to have a hard time to leave the "consummer seat" and, > in the rare occasions during which they reveal their existence, they do not > seem to be able to do more than complaining... That may be due to the fact that most of this list, or the most frequent speakers, enjoy comparing methods of organizing CDs or other ridiculous nonsense. Eventually you get this feeling of "why bother?" While often times relatively worthwhile discussions are started from an intelligent post, more often it seems that people ignore anything insightful and truly expressive, like what usually comes from Gene Natalia, few and far between as it may be.Ever notice how the most intelligent posts are the more rare? like from Stephen Drury or David Slusser, or Rich Williams or Brian Olewnick. There happen to be more frequent worthwhile posts from say...Steve Smith or Jeff Spirer, because they're just (seemingly) nice and seem to be trying to provide as much info as possible. Then there are people who have free passes that say you don't have to post anything insightful or intelligent as long as your posts are either quotes from your discography, or really obnoxious retorts that are justified with a ":-)" at the end, to make them seem cute. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:17:48 -0700 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: masada question All right, an actual Zorn question (not that I minded the OT posts at all): Masada is coming to San Francisco in November, and I am told that he uses a "West Coast version" of the band -- but what does this mean? Say, Joey Baron (no!) won't be there, for instance? Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:25:14 -0700 From: Gene Natalia Subject: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Okay, I give up. MY cd collection numbers just over 900, and I have a 1000 disc cd shelf. I keep them all in alphabetical order, arranged in chronological order within each artist, the most recent album being to the leftmost. Any singles get put to the right of the albums proper, also within chronological order. Any live albums or greatest hits type things get put to the left of the albums proper. As for box sets, if the cd's can be removed from the box so as to be filed with the other cd's, then I do so, leaving the husks at the bottom of my shelves with any boxes that do not cooperate with this system. As for cd's by multiple artists, I do something earth-shattering! That's right, I put the cd where I'm going to look for it when I want it. So, even though on the Death Ambient cd Kato Hideki's name comes first, I put it under Ikue Mori, since that's where I'm more likely to look for it, especially since I have no other Kato Hideki cd's, unless I were to count the Dying Ground cd, which I have filed under Eyvind Kang. I do file pseudonyms separately, so Chaos AD doesn't get to sit next to Squarepusher, but maybe I should rethink this system. As a matter of fact, maybe I'll change that right now! In any case, next comes the cdr's which I don't count as cd's at all. These go in their own little bastard subsection, in no order at all. The exception to this is the cdr which has been given some sort of significant packaging, allowing it to disguise its bastard nature and blend in with the other cd's. There are only two of these elevated bastards in my collection, but this number will likely grow in the future. Little bootleg tapes go in a jumble on the bottom shelf, and my small stack of vinyl goes at the base of my bookshelf, in alphabetical order, with 7"s separated. Now for the real fun! I have a 200 disc changer, so my method of listening to my cd's tends to take this into consideration. In fact, I make 25 disc blocks which can be but on random. So, I have, for example, a 25 disc block of Sun Ra/Sun City Girls/Graham Connah/Splatter Trio/Pigpen/Residents. Or, I have another block with all 10 Masada discs in it, plus the Bar Kokhba stuff, plus random other Jewish stuff. I call it my Great Big Radical Jew Block. I have another block with Autechre, Matmos, Bannlust, Farmers Manual, etc in it. Sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what disc is playing, so I keep the list of 200 on an Excel file so I can refer to it when I need to figure out what's playing. I also have a discman patched into my auxilary line for listeing to indivual cd's, which is essential for some cd's that are meant to be listened to in their entirety as a single piece. For those interested, I but my 200 disc-changer on bottom, with my receiver on top of that, my dual tape deck on top of that, and my turntable on the very top. I hope those of you who have not used your delete button yet are snickering. Don't be upset. I'm a geek too, as well as a bit of an asshole. Although this post is all true, there is an element of satire. I hope you can cope with that. I apologize to any who find me offensive, but if you make judicious use of your delete button, you need never read another post from me again! And don't forget, I love you all. Ethan "Geek" Danberry - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #481 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com