From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #498 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, October 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 498 In this issue: - Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie, New York Eye and Ear Control? Re: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie, New York Eye and Ear Control? Re: context to: Seattlites re: Mount Analog Re: context Another Zorn album... O'Rourke/Null Re: Recent Goddies + female voices Sub Rosa Subsonic Series [none] Re: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie Phoenix article [Fwd: Another Zorn album...] Re: Another Zorn album... Re: Another Zorn album... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:42:45 PDT From: "John Dikeman" Subject: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie, New York Eye and Ear Control? I just got the soundtrack to this movie by Michael Snowdon, with Albert Ayler, Don Cherry, and John Tchiani(sp?) on it. It's really great, but, what I was woundering, what ever happened to the movie. Has anyone ever seen it? Is there anyplace you could order it from. I'd give an arm and a leg to see how this music was interprited. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:03:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie, New York Eye and Ear Control? The film was screened at the Guelph Jazz Festival at the end of September. The most important thing to note is that the film is by Canadian painter Michael *Snow*, who continues to perform as an improvising pianist with the CCMC. I'm not sure if the work is commercially available, but if you query the Music Gallery in Toronto (where the CCMC performs once a week) and/or the Art Gallery of Ontario in Toronto, both of which have Web pages, I'm sure someone could lead you on to Snow and/or a distributor. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, John Dikeman wrote: > I just got the soundtrack to this movie by Michael Snowdon, with Albert > Ayler, Don Cherry, and John Tchiani(sp?) on it. It's really great, but, > what I was woundering, what ever happened to the movie. Has anyone ever > seen it? Is there anyplace you could order it from. I'd give an arm > and a leg to see how this music was interprited. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:57:40 -0400 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: context William York wrote: > > Tom Pratt wrote: This whole thing with context is a major > > *problem* I've had with Zorn's music from the beginning. Often times, I > > feel all Zorn's compositional basis is just new context for established > > ideas (ie his influences). > > This would be true for a lot of people: Miles Davis and Ornette Coleman > for example, they continually changed the settings they played in but > the things that made them THEM were or are there, for better or worse. Yes, but the difference as I see it is that Ornette and Miles brought new context to established concepts by applying them to unique concepts of their OWN. Whereas with Zorn, I often find, he brings established concepts together with OTHER established concepts and NOT much of his own. > >For instance Masada=Ornette Coleman 4tet + Jewish music > > I think this has more to do with instrumentation though Yes, exactly! A *consciously* borrowed instrumentation from Ornette's quartet applied to Jewish music. I was not inferring anything more than that. > As for Spy vs. Spy, I think while it is, as you say, "hardcore + Ornette", > there are a lot of connections that make this a logical and pretty natural > combination. It's absolutely a logical combination! However, Spy Vs. Spy comes off, to me, as being very gimmicky and forced - more of a novelty item than anything else. Brotzmann's Machine Gun on the other hand is very natural and pure abrasive music. Painkiller comes off this way too which is why, for me, it's one of the more important Zorn projects (though I generally don't care much for Laswell). -Tom "waiting to be exiled from this list" Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:43:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Bramy Subject: to: Seattlites re: Mount Analog Did any of my Seattle brothers out there record the Mount Analog set last weekend? It was on the Sonarchy Radio Hour on KCMU. I was unable to hear it or tape it. Can somebody hook me up? Todd - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 18:24:32 -0400 (EDT) From: William York Subject: Re: context Tom Pratt wrote: > Yes, but the difference as I see it is that Ornette and > Miles brought > new context to established concepts by applying them to unique concepts > of their OWN. Whereas with Zorn, I often find, he brings established > concepts together with OTHER established concepts and NOT much of his > own. So maybe its not as true of the more linear stuff like Spy vs. Spy or Masada, but I think there is a definate connection, as far as his approach and staying consistent with his own ideas, between the game pieces, the Kurt Weill arrangement, Spillane, Locus Solus, Classic Guide to Strategy, much of the Naked City stuff (Speedfreaks, NY Flat Top Box, Saigon Pickup), some of the arrangements for the Big Gundown, Carny, and others. They all have in common the sound block form, as in the quick changes from one section to another. Sometimes it is done with genre-switching but not always. But, with a lot of recent stuff he seems to have stopped writing in this way. > > > As for Spy vs. Spy, I think while it is, as you say, "hardcore + Ornette", > > there are a lot of connections that make this a logical and pretty natural > > combination. > > It's absolutely a logical combination! However, Spy Vs. Spy comes off, > to me, as being very gimmicky and forced - more of a novelty item than > anything else. So this is just a difference of opinion, I guess. But I remember reading something about how the Ornette project developed over a period beginning in '84 or something, when they would just play Ornette songs for the fun of it, so they wouldn't have to worry about "some neurotic bebopper saying we weren't running the changes properly" (some quote like that). And then over the years it became what ended up on the record. This same idea is what made me give Derek Bailey another chance,. I first found his approach to be very arbitrary and unconnected from 'reality'. Then when i was reading his book he outlined the changes that took place gradually during the 60s that led to his playing in such a way. Not that reading and understanding where someone is coming from, on paper, makes it sound any different, but it made me listen to it in a more openminded way. But there are plenty of other gimmicky things in music - think about Ives simulating two marching bands passing each other. It's not much different than the comparisons people have made about Zorn's stuff sounding like flipping through a radio dial. Maybe both of these approaches are gimmicky as far as imposing foreign, non traditionally musical forms onto music, but I guess the more you like how it sounds, the less gimmicky it seems. These approaches have their dead ends as much as verse chorus verse songwriting, free improv, or 12 bar blues do. Thatt's my beat guess as to why he started writing melodies and doing all the Masada stuff. Of course there are plenty of holes in my arguments and I may actually have no idea what I'm talking about. ?? WY - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:09:21 EDT From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Another Zorn album... On October 20th there is apparently a Zorn Album called Music For Romance, Volume 1. Is there a cheesy guy with the same name releasing albums or is this actually John? :) any information would be appreciated. it's not a filmworks release.. from, matt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:38:15 -0500 From: "Landon Thorpe" Subject: O'Rourke/Null > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:41:50 +0000 > From: "Charles Gillett" > Subject: Re: guitar albums and things > > On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:05:13 -0500, "Landon Thorpe" wrote: > > Here are a few good ones: [...] > > Jim O'Rourke/K.K. Null--New Kind of Water (np, btw; should be called New > > Kind of Noisy) > > Can you tell me more about this album? I haven't been able to > find a track list or any information on it; is there any indication > why it's named after a This Heat song? > Sorry about the delayed response. I get the digest, plus I've been away this weekend. Info on Null/O'Rourke (from the CD leaflet): - ---------- K.K Null & Jim O'Rourke _New Kind of Water_ Charnel House: CHCD 6 Charnel House Productions, P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA 94117-0277 USA 01. Abyss 02. Gibakaze 03. Live at lounge axe pt 1 04. Septic moon 05. Neuro geometry 06. Live at lounge axe pt 2 07. Operation DNA All titles composed and improvised by Kazuyuki K. Null and Jim O'Rourke Recorded on January-February 1991 and June 1992 Tracks 3. and 6. were recorded live at LOUNGE AXE, Chicago, August 8th, 1992 All tracks are guitar duets - ---------- Could someone more enlightened about This Heat give us an idea about the significance of the title? I know they've been discussed here before. > > On other recent subjects: > > Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the > > Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc? > > I've seen it around, but haven't gotten it. What is the point of > this series, anyway? The split-LP format isn't very appealing. I've had good luck with the Justin K. Broadrick/Andy Hawkins album and the Caspar Brotzmann/Page Hamilton album, which is a collaboration, actually. Anyone know what Brotzmann the younger has been up to lately? Been kind of quiet. Speaking of quiet, more quiet improv--Gunter Muller/Jim O'Rourke _Weighting_ on For Four Ears is a very subtle and beautiful album. Instrumentation includes piano, organ, lap steel, percussion, and electronics. Anyone else heard this one? Enjoying the respite from the heat, Landon Thorpe - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:53:10 -0400 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: Recent Goddies + female voices At 10:20 PM +0100 10/8/98, Felix wrote: >And now for my question. I'm looking for some female vocalists, and am >particularly interested in Shelley Hirsh and Diamanda Galas (of which i >don't know anything except 'Metamorfosi' from The Big Gundown). Any >reccomendations would be really appreciated. If you like Shelley Hirsh, then you should check out some other 'classical' works by Ligeti ("Aventures" and "Nouvelles Aventures", among others) Berio ("Sequenza III" and "Circles"), and of course John Cage. Also, don't miss recordings by Joan La Barbara and Cathy Berberian. On that note, I've often wondered if Zorn has ever entertained a 'classical' comission for a work for solo (baritone) voice. Anyone ever heard of such a thing? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:18:54 -0500 From: Craig Rath Subject: Sub Rosa Subsonic Series > > On other recent subjects: > > Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the > > Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc? > > I've seen it around, but haven't gotten it. What is the point of > this series, anyway? The split-LP format isn't very appealing. The Frere-Jones/Connors CD is quite good. If you like Connors style, the Frere-Jones stuff (while being somewhat different) compliments it well. I've been happy with the whole series, and can't wait for more. As to what the point of the series is, I would imagine it is an attempt to expose people to new things they wouldn't ordinarily get. By pairing Frere-Jones with Connors, fans of Connors might find something new to like as well. For me it hasn't been difficult thus far, as I've liked almost everyone they've had in the series before buying the discs. Matter of taste, I guess. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:29:15 -0500 From: Craig Rath Subject: [none] >Speaking of quiet, more quiet improv--Gunter Muller/Jim O'Rourke _Weighting_ >on For Four Ears is a very subtle and beautiful album. Instrumentation >includes piano, organ, lap steel, percussion, and electronics. Anyone else >heard this one? Very good disc. If you like that one, also try Slow Motion (also Muller/O'Rourke) which is along the same lines, and Table Chair and Hatstand (Muller/O'Rourke/Voice Crack) which adds some more noise and electronics - All on For Four Ears. Also on that label - Gunter Muller and Christian Marclay - Live Improvisations. As you might imagine, somewhat noisier than the previous three Muller albums mentioned. Interesting, though. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:47:41 -0400 From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie It was shown at the (Re)Soundings Festival in Atlanta last July, though it was rescheduled at the last moment so I wasn't able to see it. As far as I know, none of Snow's films are available on video. LT At 10:42 AM 10/11/98 PDT, you wrote: >I just got the soundtrack to this movie by Michael Snowdon, with Albert >Ayler, Don Cherry, and John Tchiani(sp?) on it. It's really great, but, >what I was woundering, what ever happened to the movie. Has anyone ever - ------------------------------------------------------ Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:42:24 -0400 From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Phoenix article The Boston Phoenix Zorn et al article is online at: http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archive/music/98/10/08/JEWS.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:30:19 -0700 From: Anne & Dan Dellosso Subject: [Fwd: Another Zorn album...] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------5C264127492E85063293605D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------5C264127492E85063293605D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <36222D42.876D529A@desupernet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:24:34 -0700 From: Anne & Dan Dellosso Reply-To: adosso@desupernet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Re: Another Zorn album... References: <3c5f05f0.36213aa1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Orangejazz@aol.com wrote: > On October 20th there is apparently a Zorn Album called Music For Romance, > Volume 1. Is there a cheesy guy with the same name releasing albums or is this > actually John? :) any information would be appreciated. it's not a filmworks > release.. > > from, > matt > > -it is John, the disc is called music for romance- music for children vol.one. > its a comp. that features three or so unrecorded naked city songs, John recorded > with a Boston band also a couple of chamber type pieces, i was talking to a guy > who works at a record store that got the promo and he said the cover is > horrific, a nude young girl thats body is disfigured or something like that (i > did not actually see the cover just going by what he said). Mabey thats why the > cd's release date is pushed back in europe. dan - --------------5C264127492E85063293605D-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:55:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: FJG_Lamerikx Subject: Re: Another Zorn album... Dan wrote: > > i was talking to a guy > > who works at a record store that got the promo and he said the cover is > > horrific, a nude young girl thats body is disfigured or something like that > > (i did not actually see the cover just going by what he said). Mabey > > thats why the cd's release date is pushed back in europe. I don't think so. It would certainly constitute a good reason to push back the release date in the USA, but NOT in Europe. To illustrate this opinion, MTV no longer shows the version of the (brilliant) new Cardigans video where singer Nina Persson crashes everything she finds in her way during a car-ride, and in the end crashes herself against a mini-van. The video very graphically shows Nina being launched out of the car and bouncing off the top of the van, onto the road. She proceeds to display a thin line of blood oozing from the corner of her mouth, and is eventually knocked out or killed by the stone that she placed on the gas pedal to be able to stand upright while driving. Contrary to MTV, however, the Dutch equivalent TMF is showing the video full-blown, any time of day. This quite illustrates the difference between the US and Europe as far as these things are concerned. Frankco. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:08:39 -0700 From: Anne & Dan Dellosso Subject: Re: Another Zorn album... FJG_Lamerikx wrote: > Dan wrote: > > > > i was talking to a guy > > > who works at a record store that got the promo and he said the cover is > > > horrific, a nude young girl thats body is disfigured or something like that > > > (i did not actually see the cover just going by what he said). Mabey > > > thats why the cd's release date is pushed back in europe. > > I don't think so. It would certainly constitute a good reason to push back > the release date in the USA, but NOT in Europe. > > To illustrate this opinion, MTV no longer shows the version of the (brilliant) > new Cardigans video where singer Nina Persson crashes everything she finds in > her way during a car-ride, and in the end crashes herself against a mini-van. > The video very graphically shows Nina being launched out of the car and bouncing > off the top of the van, onto the road. She proceeds to display a thin line of > blood oozing from the corner of her mouth, and is eventually knocked out or > killed by the stone that she placed on the gas pedal to be able to stand upright > while driving. > > Contrary to MTV, however, the Dutch equivalent TMF is showing the video > full-blown, any time of day. This quite illustrates the difference between > the US and Europe as far as these things are concerned. > > Frankco. > > -The reason i would think that is cause of the original cover of "Guts of a > Virgin", Painkiller was banned in europe, but if you saw the Toys Factory release > from Japan it had the art work that was intended. dan- - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #498 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. 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