From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #532 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, November 23 1998 Volume 02 : Number 532 In this issue: - Re: leng t'che Help! Alboth! John Oswald Mailing List WFMU Record Fair Re: leng t'che Re: leng t'che Re: leng t'che Nuovo Consonanza Re: Nuovo Consonanza Re: leng t'che RE: leng t'che; weird little boy Re: leng t'che; weird little boy Re: leng t'che; weird little boy Cassiber - Live In Tokyo Heiner Goebbels was Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo david murray/dragon blue Bill Frisell Re: leng t'che Ribot scores Re: leng t'che Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:55:23 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: leng t'che At 11:31 AM 11/21/98 -0800, Benito Vergara wrote: > >Is "Leng T'che" worth getting for $14.95? As much as I like Naked City, I'm >not totally sure about a single half-hour composition (I don't own Black Box >either, and I don't know what the Melvins sound like). Any opinions? > I don't know the Melvins either, but Leng T'che is my least listened to Naked City album. If you like Eye's screaming sounds (which I don't), you may like this more than I do, as Eye is a major part of this piece, but if Eye gets on your last nerve, avoid this one. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:40:08 -0500 From: bobonic@westol.com (Adam MacGregor) Subject: Help! Alboth! I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of any distro that would be able to hook me up with a copy of "Leibfield" by the swiss band Alboth! I tried Relapse records mailorder, but they sent me the wrong disc...and their label, PDCD doesn;t seem to be too swift on updating the web page at all. if you can help, please lemme know... thanks, adam bobonic@westol.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:33:21 -0500 From: Peter Risser Subject: John Oswald Mailing List Hey, For those who are interested, I finally managed to set up a John Oswald Mailing list. It's through OneList, so there are ads and stuff associated with it, but, hey, it was free and the only place I could find where I could set one up. Anyway, if you want to subscribe, there's two ways to go: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/plunderphonia or send mail to plunderphonia-subscribe@onelist.com In any case, I hope it will engender discussion on obvious stuff like, what's John up to these days, and where can I get a hold of Plunderphonics, but also, discussions on appropriated and sampled music in general. Thanks, and tell anyone you know who may be interested. Thanks! Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:54:50 -0500 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: WFMU Record Fair Most NYC area folk may already be aware, but in case you're not, this is a fine place to locate obscure vinyl or collection gap fillers at, often, reasonable prices, if you can stand the crowds. It's continuing (I _think_) tomorrow on West 19th st between 6th & 7th Aves (I forget the exact address--closer to 6th on the South side of the block--follow the record geeks). Well worth checking out. My swag from this afternoon: Jerome Cooper The Unpredictability of Predictability Creative Constr. Co. Vol 2 David Garland Control Songs Rzewski/Braxton/Eisler No Place to Go but Around Xenakis Music Today, Vol 2 (on Angel) Stockhausen/Xenakis/ Penderecki/Posseur The New Music (on RCA Victrola) All for @ $50. Brian Olewnick NR: Harry Partch, A Biography by Bob Gilmore. Essential stuff. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:04:01 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: leng t'che > I don't know the Melvins either, but Leng T'che is my least listened to > Naked City album. If you like Eye's screaming sounds (which I don't), you > may like this more than I do, as Eye is a major part of this piece, but if > Eye gets on your last nerve, avoid this one. Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a little bit more relevance. Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the piece? - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:47:06 -0800 From: Subject: Re: leng t'che i agree... eye's contribution to Leng T'che is minimal. i enjoy frisell and baron wokring together on this dirge. although it is not an everyday listen. - -patrick in portland Julian wrote: > Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a > little bit more relevance. > > Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the > piece? > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:56:54 +0100 From: "Felix" Subject: Re: leng t'che Regarding Leng T'che: I have never heard that particular album. I think it's the only thing I have never heard from Naked City (except Heretic, which I never heard, too). I wonder, how is this compared to their other releases? And for those that heard Heretic, I ask the same question. Thanks Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:48:47 -0500 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Nuovo Consonanza After John Abbey's recommendation I got the Edition RZ self-titled disc of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza and, of course, absolutely love it. I just found that there is another disc by them on Cramps called 'Musica Su Schemi'. Is this great as well? -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:35:26 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Nuovo Consonanza In a message dated 11/22/98 11:07:50 AM, tpratt@smtc.net wrote: <> yeah, it's pretty great. what I think I like even more (only heard it once so far) is the newly released Franco Evangelisti double disc retrospective on Edition RZ. Evangelisti is the leader of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza, as you're probably aware. the only other thing available by the Gruppo (on CD, anyway) is one half of a twofer Ennio Morricone disc on Point, _Giornata Nera Per L'Ariete/Gli Occhi Freddi Della Paura_. I can't give you more details on this, as my copy is lent out, but it's pretty essential. since it's a single soundtrack, it's more cohesive than the other Gruppo on disc. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:05:06 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: leng t'che At 11:04 AM 11/22/98 +1100, Julian wrote: > >Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a >little bit more relevance. > >Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the >piece? Yeah, well, what the piece is about is also part of what makes me too uncomfortable about the piece. The first time I had a look at one of the pictures from that set was in one of those magazines that specializes in fairly extreme stuff, and as the picture was all grainy (although fairly good sized), I couldn't get an idea of what it was from a quick glance, so I studied it fairly closely. Quite a shock when I figured out what it was! And since I had studied it, it was firmly in my memory. I still find the pictures completely repellent, even though many artists whom I respect (not only Zorn, but Georges Bataille, who had all of them in his bureau) find them fascinating and inspiring. The only cover art that even comes close to inspiring the same discomfort was a Rip, Rig and Panic album cover with the baboon crossing the life-death boundary (but not until I learned that story either). And maybe Eye isn't on the whole thing, but I find his work so difficult to listen to for long periods that my lasting impression of this piece is his screaming. Since Felix is asking for more of a description, it probably starts with a duet between Baron and Frisell, very slow tempo (for Naked City) but very intense, loud, and funereal. As Julian points out, the soundtrack for an execution, not really like anything else NC did. Heretic is the NC players in duets and trios, so the variety comes from the different combinations. The smaller groups give this album an intimacy, almost, that none of the other have. In recent listenings to this album, I've even grown to respect what Eye does a little more (but it's in much smaller doses than LT). What I like about NC is that every album is different from every other, and even though I don't like Leng T'che, its place in their work only increases the respect I have for the group as a whole. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:08:57 -0800 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: leng t'che; weird little boy > -----Original Message----- > From: Caleb T. Deupree [mailto:cdeupree@erinet.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 12:05 PM > I still find the > pictures completely repellent, even though many artists whom I > respect (not > only Zorn, but Georges Bataille, who had all of them in his bureau) find > them fascinating and inspiring. Isn't the cover reproduced in Bataille's "The Tears of Eros?" (And was it this cover that created all the furor from the Asian American groups, or was it the bondage photos from "Torture Garden?") Had the chance to pick "Leng T'che" up yesterday, but... put it back at the last minute. Thanks for the info, folks; it does sound pretty interesting though. Maybe it'll still be there (had to save some money for beer at a concert later that night)... Which brings me to something slightly off-topic: no doubt the audience at the Jad Fair / Yo La Tengo concert last night (at Slim's, in San Francisco) was taken aback when the unannounced opening act came out on stage. Yup, it was good ol' Mike Patton, with a piece for screams, guitar and turntable -- anyone know whether this was the piece he premiered with Zorn a few months back? In any case, it was pretty much the same performance as the Zorn/Patton/Lombardo concert: big shrill slabs of power-electronics, sustained guitar feedback, Patton screaming his face blue. (How does "Weird Little Boy" compare to this, by the way? It keeps turning up in the used bins now.) All right, enough questions for now. =) Later, Ben np: diamanda galas, "malediction and prayer" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:16:28 -0500 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: leng t'che; weird little boy Benito Vergara wrote: > Isn't the cover reproduced in Bataille's "The Tears of Eros?" (And was it > this cover that created all the furor from the Asian American groups, or was > it the bondage photos from "Torture Garden?") I believe it was both actually. > Had the chance to pick "Leng T'che" up yesterday, but... put it back at the > last minute. Thanks for the info, folks; it does sound pretty interesting > though. Maybe it'll still be there (had to save some money for beer at a > concert later that night)... If it makes any difference, the disc is out-of-print and pretty difficult to find as far as I remember. But it's in the 'Black Box' of course. I love Leng T'Che. It's one of those discs I pop in ever couple months and listen all the way through with the lights off. Freaks the shit out of me every time. -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:03:02 EST From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: leng t'che; weird little boy In a message dated 11/22/98 9*34*52 PM, you wrote: <> It's good to hear that I am not alone! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:55:24 -0500 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo I recently got a copy of Cassiber's double-disc 'Live In Tokyo' and while I don't really like it very much (the Ground Zero remix is much better), I'm really confused as to what it actually *is*. Is it some sort of musical performance for a play or something theatrical? Or is this just what Cassiber did... Is there any other good Heiner Goebbels aside from 'Black On White'??? -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:23:30 -0500 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Heiner Goebbels was Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo Tom Pratt wrote: > Is there any other good Heiner Goebbels aside from 'Black On White'??? I would tend to use the term 'good', not great, but most of the Goebbels I've heard has at least something to recommend it. Worth hearing, IMHO, are: Goebbels Heart Eva The Man in the Elevator ECM (Some great Don Cherry work) Shadow/Landscape w/ Argonauts " (fun use of street convers.) Ou bien le debarquement... " Haven't heard anything more recent. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:36:23 -0800 From: Subject: david murray/dragon blue i was hoping someone could describe david murray's DIW releases. my local store had about 5 of them (tin cup? maybe...plus others) and i am thinking about picking one up. but at 21.99 i like to know a little about what it is im buying unless it is on the Avant imprint. i buy anything on Avant without hesitation....i just picked up Philip Johnston's Big Trouble today, excellent..... also got new Ruins "Vrresto", Frith/Ribot "Subsonic: Sounds of a Distant Episode", and DNA (avant release with Mori, Hayward, Lindsay). OH!!!! does Dragon Blue have any other albums than the Avant release??? thanks, patrick in portland - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:03:12 -0600 (CST) From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Bill Frisell "Before we were born" What an amazing album. All hail Joey Baron too. }Theodorus-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:33:42 +0100 (MET) From: FJG_Lamerikx Subject: Re: leng t'che [Leng Tch'e] > If it makes any difference, the disc is out-of-print and pretty difficult to > find as far as I remember. But it's in the 'Black Box' of course. Given that it was released on the Japanese Toy's Factory label, I don't think it is out of print. Japanese releases rarely go out of print, since they just accumulate orders and re-press when the demand is high enough. Also, on a fairly recent visit to Disk Union in Tokyo, I saw it still sitting in their bins (as well as the Toy's Factory version of Torture Garden - I even saw that one used for $6). It might be very expensive to order it from Disk Union, though. I remember getting my copy for about $30 a couple of years ago. When I first got it, Leng Tch'e was my absolute favorite Naked City album. It was the first time I ever heard a composition cross the 30-minute border (a strange feat, looking at my collection today). I really like the way the piece develops, the long drawn-out sounds, the bashing, and then gradually Zorn and Eye coming in to take the piece to frantic heights. I still love it today, although I think my current favorite would be Grand Guignol. And what about the "new" Naked City tracks on the Music For Children CD? The band Prelapse are given good renditions, but somehow they don't capture the magic of the original Naked City line-up. There's something in the production that doesn't click. Frankco. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:03:22 PST From: "Tim Schelfhout" Subject: Ribot scores Hey there, Anyone out there who knows where to find Ribot tabs (or notes!) on the net (specifically of his latest Cubanos Postizos project)or even a mailing list ? Thanks Tim Schelfhout ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:17:42 -0800 From: Subject: Re: leng t'che can someone tell me abouyt this new music for children release. this is not the gary lucas album is it???? "new"? naked city tracks.....i am very interested. please inform me on how to find this. - -patrick in portland > And what about the "new" Naked City tracks on the Music For Children CD? > The band Prelapse are given good renditions, but somehow they don't capture > the magic of the original Naked City line-up. There's something in the > production that doesn't click. > > Frankco. > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:32:37 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo At 06:55 PM 11/21/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote: >I recently got a copy of Cassiber's double-disc 'Live In Tokyo' and >while I don't really like it very much (the Ground Zero remix is much >better), I'm really confused as to what it actually *is*. Is it some >sort of musical performance for a play or something theatrical? Or is >this just what Cassiber did... Cassiber's studio work is, IMHO, much better than the live performance recorded on that album. Supposedly they brought texts to the studio and then improvised over the texts, but the live album sounds pretty much like most of the corresponding studio pieces, so I dunno... - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:37:19 EST From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead" I don't have the official ESP versions of Ayler's Slug's stuff. My versions are those MusicMagic (or MagicMusic, or whatever they call themselves) CDs, one called Truth is Marching In and the other is Black Unity or something along those lines, they're at home and I'm not. As has already been mentioned, the sound is terrible, and I don't assume that the ESP versions are significantly better (they'd have to be from an altogether different source). It's a pretty sure bet that the boot versions are simply mastered from some version of the ESP LPs (for all I know, the BASE reissues). The weird thing about these recordings, though, is that at some point what is heard is the tape being played backwards. The chaotic quality of much of this music and the dismal sound conspire to make the backward passages less noticable than they might otherwise be, but there's no doubt that that is what I'm hearing. Anyone else ever notice this? Personally, I'll take the end of Strawberry Fields as an example of this phenomenon any day. . . Dave Royko - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #532 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com