From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #547 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Sunday, December 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 547 In this issue: - Re: Large vs. small stores Re: changed my mind Re: Large vs. small stores Re: Amazon.com's 100 best list Re: Zorn becoming ...? Re: Zorn becoming ...? Re: Avant-Classical recommendation (was: Zorn becoming ...?) GZ Pekinese Opera Re: GZ Pekinese Opera Re: Large vs. small stores Re: GZ Pekinese Opera Greg Cohen Query BiskScalaAngelus Re: Large vs. small stores Kronos Quartet - 25 Years Re: BiskScalaAngelus Dogon A.D. Re: BiskScalaAngelus large & small stores Ref. : Re: GZ Pekinese Opera - Live Mao 99 Zorn book ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:15:39 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: Large vs. small stores On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com wrote: > as for borders i hope that you notice that they support the community they > are a part of by busting up unions? b - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:58:01 PST From: "Dominique Leone" Subject: Re: changed my mind I think being able to approach a composer's work who is already dead gives us a perspective we don't get with most artists today---that is, we can listen to everything a certain composer did without bias. For someone like Zorn, we are growing, maturing, or atleast existing at the same time he is, so we will always compare his new work with earlier works we heard at a different stage in our lives. The next generation may say that it was with Zorn's 90s work that he began to get serious and actually "compose." You never know. It all boils down to perspective. Dominique ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:31:13 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Large vs. small stores Don't take things so hard. I was once a minimum wage teenager and knew a lot about music. Other people have the same experience. Listen to as much "different" music as you can and you'll be amazed how much good stuf there is out there. For the record, Oliver Nelson was an accomplished jazz composer/arranger who turned out some masterful albums then went to Hollywood and worked himself into a fatal heartattack doing dreck like "The $6 Million Man". His acknowledged masterwork is "Blues And the Abstract Truth" (Impulse) featuring Eric Dolphy (as); Freddie Hubbard (tmpt); Bill Evand (p) and Paul Chamber (b) among others. Marily Crispel is a well-known improvising pianist, who is best known for the stint she spent in Anthony Braxton's Quartet. Since then she has doen excellent work on her own and with others. My particular favorites of her work are: Cascades (Music & Arts), a trio with Barry Guy (b) and Gerry Hemmingway (d) Band On The Wall (Matchless) with Eddie Prevost (d) Natives and Aliens (Leo) with Evan Parker (ts,ss), Barry Guy (b) and Paul Lytton (d) Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Christian Heslop wrote: > > > The following month when I returned, their stock of Zorn had doubled. > You said: > > So using straight math they then had *two* Zorn discs, or is that four? > > Ouch! It was four. Yes you are right. I do have such problems with simple > arithmetic. I really appreciate you clearing up my vague thoughts, as well > as your generous act of sending that same clarification to everyone so that > they too are relieved the mental pressure of sorting through my many > terrible mistakes. When I said "stock" I thought that I was referring to > *that which they usually carry*. I thought that was what "stock" meant. > > > > > By the way, I have never heard of either Marilyn Crispell or Oliver > > > Nelson. Does that disqualify me from working for minimum wage at a > record > > > store? > > > > You replied: > > Au contraire, it's probably the best recommendation you can have for > > working there. > > Well. You could have just told me who they were. I certainly didn't say > that I wasn't interested. I don't work at a record store. My area of > knowledge is quite distant from the realm of music. I am simply a music > lover who is attempting to learn as much as I can. It is my failing that I > never seem to know anything about musicians until I am first exposed to > them. It is good to know that there are people like you out there who can > help me with my handicaps. > > You said: > > Mass merchandising usually leads to bland sameness, unless a > knowledgeable > > buyer slips through the web of monopoly capitalism. > > Yes. *Usually*. That is exactly the point that I thought I was making. If > I remember correctly, I expressed surprise at a phenomenon that appeared to > me to be occuring. I questioned the rest of the group as to whether or not > they agreed. I think I already suggested that it was probably the work of a > sympathetic buyer. I do not represent any of the businesses in question. I > do not work in retail. I was suggesting that it wasn't entirely fair to > expect teenagers employed at minimum wage to be amateur musicologists. Did > I piss you off? You seem to have taken a strange tack on a group that is > composed of people with similar tastes. > > Christian > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:00:38 -0800 From: zoyd Subject: Re: Amazon.com's 100 best list Christian Heslop wrote:What is it that is causing big business to market to small niches? one reason i can think of is that people in those small niches tend to spend a disproportionate amount of their disposable income therein.... least i know i do...i spend, at a minimum, 100 dollars a month (during lean months), in my niches and would spend a lot more ifn i could. methinks the biguns are slowly realizing this fact... zoyd - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:24:42 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Zorn becoming ...? At 09:39 AM 12/3/98 -0500, stephen drury wrote: >Does anybody have any thoughts on this? Are we seeing (and participating >in, here on this list) the birth of a new, more widely curious audience at >the same time the Boston Symphony's audience is dying off, one by one? As a >"classical" performer, I have a rather personal interest in this. The problem I have with the Boston Symphony (as a concept, not as a particular institution) is that orchestral music, and classical music generally, doesn't have the kind of variety and daring that I hear out of the avant-pop side. In the 60s and 70s, composers and performers like Stockhausen and Cage really expanded the genre, opening it up to all kinds of influences way outside the normal classical realm. Although there are still musicians doing this kind of work, the classical establishment has chosen to retreat into the war horses in an attempt to keep the seats full, and the audiences willingly participate. I remember finding Luigi Nono's Wave of Fire and Light recording in my local record store about 20 years ago (sorry to show my age), prominently displayed among the new releases, on a major label (DGG), and purchased it immediately. Nono was very much alive, and still actively making exciting and daring new music, I was a young person in my 20s eagerly soaking it up, basically everything Stephen was asking for in his original post. Now, I look at my classical CDs (a pitifully small collection compared to what I feel is a very fine selection of avant-garde classical vinyl from the 60s and 70s), and other than some Cage and Tzadik recordings (and electroacoustic, which I no longer file under classical), there isn't much there. I bought a James MacMillan album a while back based on a Wire recommendation, but it did little for me compared to the Nono album. Let's say I wanted to find some CDs of the most daring and avant classical music of the last decade, music by a living composer, filed under classical. What would you recommend? - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:44:48 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn becoming ...? In a message dated 12/4/98 10:22:49 PM, cdeupree@erinet.com wrote: <> I know this question wasn't directed at me, but the name that jumps to mind for me is Iancu Dumitrescu. I could name any number of electroacoustic composers who I love, but the question seemed to be about acoustic composers only. unfortunately, you're unlikely to find any Dumitrescu at your local superstore, but Forced Exposure carries all his discs. my suggestions on where to start would be either catalog number Edition Modern 1001 or 1003. both feature the remarkable contrabassist Fernando Grillo on some of the compositions. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:48:59 -0500 From: eric Subject: Re: Avant-Classical recommendation (was: Zorn becoming ...?) Hi Caleb, >Let's say I wanted to find some CDs of the most daring and avant classical >music of the last decade, music by a living composer, filed under >classical. What would you recommend? Well, I really like what Charles Wuorinen is doing now. His stuff is full of beauty and weirdness and I've always been quite astonished whenever I've gone to see his pieces performed. I'd recommend sticking to his post-1975 stuff though. Start with his "New York Notes", which is for large ensemble and computer. The colours conveyed are simply incredible, and the strange rhythms should satisfy the 'daring' element you're looking for. His disc of Trios is also quite effective, exploring close interaction between various combinations of instruments. If you do get this one, pay attention to the masterful Bachian control of counterpoint. Finally, be sure to check out Wuorinen's "Genesis". It's for orchestra and chorus and features a musical depiction of the evolution of the cosmos (similar concept to Stockhausen's "Ylem", but much better). Charles Ives and Luigi Nono are still my hands-down favorite composers, though, if that helps at all to put my tastes in context for you. eric, mike baktin. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:27:56 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: GZ Pekinese Opera Can anyone tell me anything about Ground Zero's "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera"? I don't remember it being discussed much on this list... - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:06:46 -0500 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: GZ Pekinese Opera Julian wrote: > > Can anyone tell me anything about Ground Zero's "Revolutionary Pekinese > Opera"? I don't remember it being discussed much on this list... > If I'm recalling the sequence correctly, Heiner Goebbels (and Alfred 23 Harth?) built a work in the early 80's on samples of traditional Chinese opera. Yoshihide and crew then sampled _their_ samples to construct RPO. I've always been a bit confused as to the "version" numbers--whether they're meaningful or not. In any case, I have version 1.28 (ReR G21) and like it a great deal. Using the opera themes as a basis, it then flies off in any number of directions, noise, rock and otherwise. If I were to liken it to anything else, it'd probably be David Shea's masterful 'Hsi-Yu Chi'. Strongly recommended. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:57:44 -0800 From: "Christian Heslop" Subject: Re: Large vs. small stores Thanks. Your voice was a little harsh. Something that I am sure would be defeated by in-person delivery. I had the same problem last week with the Absinthe thread. I knew a lot about music until I started participating in this message group. Both musicians sound interesting. My recent experiences have shown me that there is a wealth of good material floating about in the world, and that I will never listen to it all. Christian - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:03:01 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: GZ Pekinese Opera In a message dated 12/5/98 9:18:08 AM, olewnik@IDT.NET wrote: <> there was a very hard to find Japanese version of this on Trigram. a year or two went by, Otomo slightly changed a few parts, added a few small parts, and let Chris Cutler reissue it on ReR, which is the one that's available now (1.28). I did a head-to-head comparison of the two once, and didn't feel like the differences were enough to warrant picking up the ReR version, although it is a bit longer. I'd guess that the details could be found in Patrice's great Otomo discography. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:31:36 +0200 From: Stephen Fruitman Subject: Greg Cohen Query Hello - Been lurking every since joining this list a couple of weeks back, have lots to learn about John Zorn and the downtown crowd and have already picked up quite a bit of interesting info. I like the tone of discourse on this list; it seems both very open and very initiated. Have lots of questions to pose, but will begin with a simple one: Has anyone heard a CD released some months ago by Greg Cohen entitled _Moment by Moment_? Anyone care to comment on its sound and provide me with label details? Thanks in advance, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of the History of Ideas Umea University S-901 87 Umea Sweden - --------------------- Bj=F6rn Olsson, Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia, Ume=E5 universitet 901 87 Ume=E5 tel. 090-167982 fax 143374 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 12:21:57 -0600 From: Paul Chavez Subject: BiskScalaAngelus Hello, I have a few "possible purchase" questions I'd like to ask before pushing the send button. Bisk - anyone heard of this? What's it like? Scala - what is this group like? Loud noise? Angelus Novus - How long is this CD? That's all. Nothing too clever to mark with. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:40:33 EST From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Large vs. small stores In a message dated 98-12-05 11:56:29 EST, Christian Heslop writes: << My recent experiences have shown me that there is a wealth of good material floating about in the world, and that I will never listen to it all. >> And isn't that about the best damn feeling in the world? Dale. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:11:04 -0800 From: "Matthew" Subject: Kronos Quartet - 25 Years Anyone heard this box set? comments, reviews, opinions? - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:27:11 -0800 From: xander@sirius.com Subject: Re: BiskScalaAngelus >Bisk - anyone heard of this? What's it like? I've got "Time" on Sub Rosa, and I like it, though I can't say that I've pulled it out more than 4 or 5 times in the 2 years that I've had it. It'll definitely fit in the electronica category, but there's a strong 80's experimental/classical flavor running through it. Fairly melodic. >Scala - what is this group like? Loud noise? I thought they were a pop band from Georgia or thereabouts. On the Too Pure label, which would imply a bit of 4ad-esque atmospheric machismo... Of course, I haven't heard a thing by them, but I do recall seeing messages on one or the other of the "indie" lists which were positive. Alexander Radio Khartoum. http://www.sirius.com/~xander/rk - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:05:13 -0500 From: "hijk" Subject: Dogon A.D. I spoke to Tim Berne last night and he said he's made some headway in getting Dogon back out. It'll have to be a European release and imported to the US, but at least it will be available. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:55:27 -0800 (PST) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: BiskScalaAngelus On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 xander@sirius.com wrote: > >Scala - what is this group like? Loud noise? > > I thought they were a pop band from Georgia or thereabouts. On the Too > Pure label, which would imply a bit of 4ad-esque atmospheric machismo... > Of course, I haven't heard a thing by them, but I do recall seeing messages > on one or the other of the "indie" lists which were positive. Scala is Sarah Peacock and Daren Seymour of Seefeel - and originally Justin Fletcher - along with production partner Mark (Locust) Van Hoen. the music is more pop than the ambient sounds of Seefeel. they have two full length CDs "Beauty Nowhere" (Touch) and "To You in Alpha" (Too Pure) and mess of singles from Too Pure. "Compass Heart" is their newest offerring, another full-length from Touch. there are a couple of web sites with additional information/discographies: @ Hyperreal www.hyperreal.org/music/artists/seefeel/scala.html @ Too Pure www.toopure.com/artists/scala/scala.htm Seefeel + members.iglou.com/artbear/seefeel.html hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 19:09:07 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: large & small stores After mentioning how badly stocked was my local Borders, I had occasion to go into a larger one a little further away, and lo and behold there was the Uri Caine Mahler album (which I grabbed immediately)! In the classical Mahler section no less. The Zorn section was fairly well stocked, but I was unable to find any other Tzadik album anywhere in the store (I'd have picked up the David Shea). Also picked up the Cage piano concertos, which I've had my eye on for a while, since Stephen started a simultaneous interesting discussion, and I should support our local musicians ;-) At least some of the Towers I've been to have an avant-garde section, so I can spend all my time in four linear feet of CDs, rather than wandering all over the store wondering where they might keep the good stuff. Where do they keep David Shea albums in Borders? - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:20:53 +0100 From: frederick.baas@holdercim-serv.fr Subject: Ref. : Re: GZ Pekinese Opera - Live Mao 99 It's a little bit out of subject but there is also a very good GZ track Liv= e=20 Mao 99 with oiginal material by Alfred Harth and Heiner Goebbels and pekine= se=20 groups on a 7 inch from a series called Erase yer head, always split single=2E= =20 This one is with Bastard (french group)=2E - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:32:40 -0800 (PST) From: Eric John Lundberg Subject: Zorn book A couple of months ago somebody posted a message about a Zorn book called Sonora or something. I was wondering if anybody had any more information on the book (like who is publishing it, if it is out,the authors etc.) Thanks in advance for any information Eric - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #547 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com