From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #565 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Sunday, January 3 1999 Volume 02 : Number 565 In this issue: - Zorn article RE: parachute years Re: parachute years Re: parachute years Nancarrow Re: parachute years For Sale Spearman on Tzadik David S Ware Interview, Coltrane book 1998 LIVE (some Zorn) The COBRA Ensemble - Cincinnati Wayne Krantz, MP3 (was Re: 1998 LIVE (some Zorn)) Re: MP3 (was Re: 1998 LIVE (some Zorn)) zorn-list Administrivia InfoPack (VERY LONG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:54:13 -0500 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Zorn article I'll wager that people here already know about this but just in case.... http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/jazz/dzorn.htm J Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:41:35 +0100 From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: RE: parachute years > The music is really demanding. It is free-improv based > (hey! Derek Bailey was > a huge influence on Chadbourne and Zorn in the '70s), but > Zorn has already > added his "structures" to channel the energy and ideas of > the players. I have this album and I still didn't found the "key" to this music. What are the "structures"? I was reading carefully (as far as my english is sufficient) all mails about the "game pieces" which Zorn invented/created, and I still don't get it (yes, you can call me stupid). I don't listen to demanding music for the first time of my life, but when it comes to Parachute/improv/game-stuff I'm helpless. So far improv seems to me to be live-show music only. I saw Fred Frith's show in Bydgoszcz (try to pronounce it!) about month ago, I'm his fan for years and I knew that sometimes he performs with a guitar only. Frith looks then like a child having fun with the instrument, making strange sounds, using all objects located on the stage. But this is only the "fake" show, the real stuff is pure music, which is great. I enjoyed the show a lot, although many people were dissapointed. I was able to hear "structures" in this improvised music: the rythm (complicated, dense, changing), harmony (atonal), dynamics, dramatugry of the piece. The point: live show is convincing, live show has it's own life, and this is probably the best part about improv. Maybe my sense of "structure" is too traditional, but Parachute Years seems to me to be structureless and I can't hear the live play between musicians. Please give me some hints. Which piece, where is the note, which makes the whole thing make sense? I really mean it, tell me the minute of the CD! My approach may seem to be strange, but I think you have to learn to listen to demanding music. Unless you are genius. Regards __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno@silesia.top.DEATHTOSPAMMERS.pl] www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:09:11 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: parachute years On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:41:35 +0100 "Artur Nowak" wrote: > > > The music is really demanding. It is free-improv based > > (hey! Derek Bailey was > > a huge influence on Chadbourne and Zorn in the '70s), but > > Zorn has already > > added his "structures" to channel the energy and ideas of > > the players. > > I have this album and I still didn't found the "key" to this music. > What are the "structures"? I was reading carefully (as far as my > english is sufficient) all mails about the "game pieces" which Zorn > invented/created, and I still don't get it (yes, you can call me > stupid). I don't listen to demanding music for the first time of my > life, but when it comes to Parachute/improv/game-stuff I'm helpless. Game pieces introduce structure by removing the number of degrees of freedom (that characterize a pure free-improv situation, at least in theory). I realize that this is a kind of negative way of looking at it, in the sense that I describe it by reduction instead of construction :-). For example, the prompter introduces constraints on time, combination of performers, mood, genre, speed, volume. Now game pieces vary in complexity in the definition of the rules selected for the above constraints. These rules are there to limit the dictatorship of the prompter who, without rules, could end up making the performance look like exactly a free-improv performance (which of course is not the objective). The rules define the piece (why COBRA is not XU FENG, etc), and the mood of the prompter combined with the talent of the performers define the colour of the performance (and its success). Now, to answer your concern, can a listener (who has never attended a performance of the piece) figure out what is going on and "reverse- engineer" the rules in order to get the structure flat? Not me, for sure. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:35:18 EST From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: parachute years Zorn has said he is more interested in "the way things work", than with the final outcome. Which seems obvious to me, in a piece like Cobra. Ive seen it performed a couple of times, and it was fun, but to listen to a recording of it doesn't do much for me. Its really difficult-- the chemistry has to be *just right*, and with 12 musicians, thats not an easy thing to accomplish. I do enjoy the smaller game pieces (and The Parachute Years). - -Jody - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:28:49 -0600 From: Herb Levy Subject: Nancarrow None of Nancarrow's player piano rolls were ever mass-produced. >Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:43:12 +1100 >From: Jim Glaspole >Subject: Nancarrow > >Hi there >My parents-in-law have a player piano. Has any of Nancarrow's scrolls >ever been manufactured? If so are they available anywhere? >Probably stupid questions but thought I'd ask. >Regards >Jim Glaspole Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:24:39 -0800 From: Subject: Re: parachute years Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > Now, to answer your concern, can a listener (who has never attended a > performance of the piece) figure out what is going on and "reverse- > engineer" the rules in order to get the structure flat? Not me, for > sure. > > Patrice. > i agree this would be a extremely difficult feat wihtout having actually > composed or played in one. but i would bet the farm that you patrice, if > anyone, could "reverse engineer" a Cobra game/piece after many repeat > attendences to Cobra performances.i dont think it is enough to just listen > a few times. it takes effort. patrick in portland - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 10:27:29 -0500 From: Risser Family Subject: For Sale It's the new year, and I'm cleaning house. A bit of stuff for exotica = fans, a ton of stuff for zorn fans. Shipping is one dollar, no matter what the order size. Please send me an email reserving what you want, and I'll mark your name = off and give you a total and an address where to send the money order. Thanks! Peter =3D=3D=3D Across 110th Street OMPS - 8 In the Heat of the Night/Mr Tibbs OMPS - 8 Dimitri from Paris - Sacre Bleu - 8 Scooby's Snack Tracks - 7 V/A - The Spirit of Vampyros Lesbos (sealed) - 11 Air - Sexy Boy single - 4 Liquid Liquid - Liquid Liquid - 8 Bill Horist - Soylent Radio - 6 Phill Niblock - Four Full Flutes - 8 Grateful Dead - Infrared Roses - 8 Panicsville - Last Compulsory Exercise - 3 Otomo Yoshihide - Sound Factory (1997) - 8 Iannis Xenakis - Kraanerg (Asphodel) - 8 Bayete - Umkhaya-Lo - 5 Bayete - and Jaby Khanyile - 5 Bayete - Mbombela - 5 V/A (original artists) - Disco Mania (Heat of Glass/Boogie Fever/You = Sexy Thing/Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now/Heaven Must Be Missing an Angel) - 3 Babe the Blue Ox - People - 4 Thymme Jones - Career Move - 8 Lake of Dracula - Lake of Dracula - 8 Lazy K - Life in One Day - 7 Pretty in Pink OMPS - 6 Replikants - This Is Our Message - 5 Gearwhore - Drive - 7 Marcy Playground - Marcy Playground - 7 Herbie Hancock - Mwandishi (Complete Warner Recordings: 2 discs) - 12 Freaky Chakra - Blacklight Fantasy - 7 Versus - Two Cents Plus Tax - 6 Kronos Quartet - Piano and String Quartet (Morton Feldman) - 8 King Crimson - Epitaph (early live recordings, recently remastered; 2 = discs) - 12 Legendary Jim Ruiz - Sniff - 8 Getaway Cruiser - Getaway Cruiser - 8 Ultra Baby Fat - Silver Tone Smile - 8 MuZiq - Brace Yourself EP - 7 Palace Songs - Palace Songs - 8 Jewel - Pieces of You - 7 Blues Traveller - Four - 7 No Doubt - Tragic Kingdom - 7 Hundred Sights of Koenji - Hundred Sights of Koenji - 15 Arthur Lyman - Taboo 2 - 8 Mix-Master Mike - Anti-Theft Device (Asphodel promo, no sleeve) - 5 Gastr Del Sol - Camofleur - 8 Uzeda - Different Section Wires - 8 Diamanda Galas - Malediction and Prayer - 8 Pointless Orchestra - Approaching Tonality - 8 Twelve Caesars - Youth Is Wasted on the Young - 8 Ryuichi Sakamoto - Discord - 8 =20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 18:41:29 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Spearman on Tzadik When I spoke to the late tenor saxophonist Glenn Spearman at the Vision Fest last summer he told me that he and his double trio had just recorded a session for Zorn that was to appear on Avant or Tzadik. I just found out that it will appear on Tzadik in late January, and if it's as good as his most recent Black Saint, "The Fields" it's a definite buy for anyone. The double trio is made up of Spearman and Larry Ochs on reeds, Chris Brown on piano, Lisle Ellis on bass and Don Robinson and Willie Winant on percussion. The name is sort of a "hommage" to Ornette's Double Quartet, but with "new music" influences. Spearman was an underappreciated (is there any other type?) avant gardist who got his grounding from the source playing with the late tenor man Frank Wright in Paris. He recorded with a cross section of other far sighted musicians including Raphe Malik, William Parker etc. and I can forward some other listening recommendations if people are interested. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 19:46:08 -0500 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: David S Ware Interview, Coltrane book Greetings, In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever , you'll find (among other things): JOHN COLTRANE Lewis Porter talks about his new Trane book and researching jazz http://www.furious.com/perfect/coltrane.html DAVID S WARE INTERVIEW The Crystalline Idea http://www.furious.com/perfect/davidsware.html Plus... staff picks for the best releases of 1998 We're always looking for good material so let us know if you have any writing or ideas for upcoming issues. Happy new year! See you online. Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:39:45 EST From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: 1998 LIVE (some Zorn) 1998 was a great year for live shows. I probably saw 50 or 60 live shows in NYC this year (normally would be more, but was out of town alot). The things that stand out in my mind the most: Being blown away time after time by drummer Jim Black. Saw him with Pachora; the Tiny Bell Trio; Bloodcount (trio version); Drew Gress with Tim Berne and Uri Caine; and on Christmas eve with Jamie Saft, Chris Speed and a bassist named Johnatan Maron. I think that gig may have been his most powerful, but then again every time I see him I think he outdoes himself. Saw a few Zorn gigs, including a couple with John Medeski and Marc Ribot, one with Cornell Rochester on drums. Probably not the best choice of drummer for what they were doing. Saw them at Wetlands with Sim Cain, and thought it was much better. Two sets in the front row at Tonic for Fred Frith was incredible. Tim Berne's Big Satan in the Old Office with Tom Rainey and Marc Ducret. Slowpoke, with Dave Tronzo, Michael Blake, Tony Scherr and Kenny Wolleson. Mark Dresser, Skuli Sverrisson, Gerry Hemmingway and Mike Sarin @ Tonic. Vernon Reid with Don Byron and Pheroan Aklaff @Tonic. Umezu Kazutoki with Dougie Bowne and Melvin Gibbs, again, at Tonic. I caught many many gigs of Wayne Krantz at the 55 Bar. Not really a part of the downtown scene, his music is a jazz/rock thing, but he is one of the best improvisers I have ever heard. I have seen some pretty remarkable musicians in attendance at his gigs, including Mark Feldman, Tim Berne, Marc Ducret, Walter Becker, and Cecil Taylor (at least 5 or 6 times!!), to name a few, well worth checking out on a Thursday night and will only cost you two drinks. Best gig of 1999: 1/1/99 Zorn at Tonic with Ikue Mori, Erik Friedlander, Mark Dresser, Andy Haas, Dave Douglas, Jim Staley, Josh Roseman. I cannot remember the name of the French female vocalist who was there as well. If anyone would like to hear an excerpt from this gig, goto: http://members.aol.com/ioualive1/zorntoni.mp3 It's a downloadable mp3 audio file. This excerpt features Zorn, Mori and Friedlander. - -Jody McAllister - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:05:58 EST From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com Subject: The COBRA Ensemble - Cincinnati Anyone in or ever make it to Cincinnati? I caught this group at club DV8 downtown. They play sets of COBRA, and apparently have done some other projects. I thought it was absolutely great, though it was my first time seeing it live. If any of you were there let's talk about it. Oh, they have an email address to get info on upcoming concerts or whatever -- COBRAgroup@aol.com. Joseph. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 17:49:10 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Wayne Krantz, MP3 (was Re: 1998 LIVE (some Zorn)) IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > I caught many many gigs of Wayne Krantz at the 55 Bar. Not really a part of > the downtown scene, his music is a jazz/rock thing, but he is one of the best > improvisers I have ever heard. I have seen some pretty remarkable musicians > in attendance at his gigs, including Mark Feldman, Tim Berne, Marc Ducret, > Walter Becker, and Cecil Taylor (at least 5 or 6 times!!) This last bit about Cecil is remarkable. He seems to be keeping an eye on some of the more formidable electric players lately... at a recent run at Yoshi's he was supposed to have been joined by the Jaco-esque Cameroonian electric bassist Richard Bona, but Richard ended up being left off that gig because finishing his debut album interfered with the copious rehearsal time Mr. Taylor demands. Having made but one of the rehearsals, Richard remarked that no other musician had ever "kicked my ass so hard" as Taylor. Could you imagine a CT Unit with Krantz and Bona? ;-) Meanwhile, Krantz can be heard with Berne and Feldman on Michael Formanek's "Extended Animation" disc on Enja. > If anyone would like to hear an excerpt from this gig, goto: > http://members.aol.com/ioualive1/zorntoni.mp3 > It's a downloadable mp3 audio file. This excerpt features Zorn, Mori and > Friedlander. For some reason this downloaded as an MP2, not an MP3. Doesn't seem to matter, though... it's bubbling nicely out of my Winamp as I type this. Has anybody else found or posted any interesting MP3 material out there? I've found a nice Dave Douglas Sextet recording from Europe and a longish thing with Frisell, Horvitz, the current Zony Mash bassist (not Fred Chalenor) and Scott Amendola, but that's about it. I hope to be offering some Berne material in RealAudio and MP3 on the Screwgun site in the coming year. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com > > > -Jody McAllister > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:26:54 EST From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: MP3 (was Re: 1998 LIVE (some Zorn)) In a message dated 1/2/99 5:52:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > Has anybody else found or posted any interesting MP3 material out there? I've > found a nice Dave Douglas Sextet recording from Europe and a longish thing > with Frisell, Horvitz, the current Zony Mash bassist (not Fred Chalenor) and Scott > Amendola, but that's about it. I hope to be offering some Berne material in > RealAudio and MP3 on the Screwgun site in the coming year. I have found very few good MP3 sites out there. I assume you mean strictly live material, and there isnt much interest in live recordings of "our" kind of music, let alone hearing it from the web. But I think that MP3 is by far the best thing around as far as audio on the web goes. I can never get (un)RealAudio to play without interruptions; I'd rather take the time to download something and hear it in much better quality. (You can also stream MP3's, but it only works well with really low quality files.) I have a new favorite show of 1999: 1/2/99 Briggan Krauss' "Sharp Putty" from the Old Office. This is sort of an all star group, featuring Briggan, Eyvind Kang, Anthony Coleman, Kenny Wolleson, and Skuli Sverrisson. You can download an 11 minute mp3 here: http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/dome/6373/putty2.mp3 - -Jody - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:21:32 -0800 (PST) From: "m. rizzi" Subject: zorn-list Administrivia InfoPack (VERY LONG) Attention Zorn-List Folks, If you don't have a copy of this Subscriber Info Pack saved, please take a moment to save a copy to your hard disk right now. Also, if you haven't read this version, please do, there is lots of useful info. thanks, mike rizzi zorn-list-owner-and-wanker The John Zorn Mailing List Subscriber Information 22 August 1998 [NOTE: Please save a copy of this message for later reference] ABOUT THE ZORN LIST The Zorn list was created so that fans of John Zorn and his MANY projects could come together and chat about the man and his music...Naked City, Masada, Painkiller, etc..... Also discussed on this list, are: Bill Laswell, Bill Frisell, Elliott Sharp, Bobby Previte, Wayne Horvitz, Zeena Parkins, Knitting Factory roster artists, Joey Baron, Last Exit posse, and any other downtown NYC connected musicians. GENERAL Message Topics: Please keep the topics of your messages relevant to the subject of the mailing list. 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Remember that a large number of mail editors out there are set up to use proportional fonts, and your lovely ASCII art won't look the way you designed it on those readers. Remember also that there's a Usenet newsgroup out there whose sole function is to make fun of people's signatures. DON'T send a message that says nothing but "Me, too." Ditto for "I don't know." DO recall that you aren't obligated to reply to everything you read. Remember the immortal words of Martin Farquhar Tupper (1810-1889): "Well-timed silence hath more eloquence than speech." NOTE TO USERS OF MICROSOFT EXCHANGE, OUTLOOK, OR WINDOWS MESSAGING Users of Microsoft Exchange or other RTF-capable e-mail clients may be accustomed to formatting e-mail messages using colors, italics, different fonts, and other features to emphasize portions of their messages. Not every subscriber uses e-mail software that interprets messages formatted using RTF. To make list postings readable by the entire list membership, please follow these procedures: If you use a Personal or System Address Book entry to write to a list, be sure to clear the "Always send to this recipient in Microsoft Exchange Rich Text Format" check box in the Address properties. If you type in the address, always use the form listname@servername and not [SMTP:listname@servername] for messages posted to the list. If you reply to a message containing RTF formatting, your reply will also contain RTF unless you clear the check box in the Address properties as described above. Do not use RTF formatting such as font, size, color, italics, bold, underline, or bullet lists. Please find ways to show the desired emphasis using plain text (such as *text* for bold) and similar methods. If you use Exchange Server, creating server commands by pasting data can cause errors because the server inserts ">" in front of pasted lines. Choose Paste Special from the Edit menu, and Select Text rather than RTF to avoid this problem. NOTE TO MICROSOFT INTERNET MAIL USERS If your program configuration options use MIME for attached files, your entire message will appear to Exchange users as an attached text file. This makes it difficult to read and reply to your contributions to the list. To prevent this problem, change the file attachment option to UUencode or use the options described below. If you send messages as HTML instead of plain text, many list members will receive the plain text of your message plus an attached file containing the HTML. This is distracting, and any emphasis you intended through character formatting such as bold or colors will be lost, which can change the apparent meaning of your message. Setting the following options can resolve both problems: Plain/Text MIME Encode text using: none Allow 8-bit characters in headers (disabled) NOTE TO cc:Mail USERS You must turn off the "Retain Original Text" option when replying to list messages. This option automatically includes message headers in a way that makes your message resemble a transmission error report. As a result, messages with the original text included are not posted to the list. Also see the previous section, QUOTING IN A REPLY MESSAGE. FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS A list of Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) to the list is available at: http://browbeat.com/zornlist/faq.html Thanks for joining the zorn-list. Enjoy! - mike rizzi, zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #565 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com