From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #615 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 02 : Number 615 In this issue: - Recent Goodies brotzman 3CD set Re: Recent Goodies RE: Ken Vandermark COBRA Re: COBRA Momentum Space? RE: Ken Vandermark Re: Momentum Space? Re[2]: Momentum Space? Re: intergalactic maiden ballet Derek Bailey southern US dates RE: Ken Vandermark Elliott Sharp ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 13:30:05 -0500 From: David Keffer Subject: Recent Goodies Hello Folks on the Zorn list, Here are a couple of reviews of things I picked up lately. Dock Boggs - "His Folkways Years" - (Smithsonian/Folkways, 1998) - 2cd Dock Boggs - "Complete Early Recordings" - (Revenant, 1997) - cd Well we have, if I remember correctly, discussed Dock Boggs on this list before but it took me a while to pick up the discs. Anyway, having given them a listen, I am delighted. The Folkways release dates to 1963-1968 and the Revenant release dates to 1927-1929. For all listeners who are comforted by the reassuring sound of analog hiss emanating from their cd players, the latter is for you. Actually, there is surprisingly little hiss on the recordings seeing as they are over 70 years old. Still, the music is just a very fine thing. The blurb on the Revenant disc describes Dock Boggs by saying (I paraphrase), "everytime he opened his mouth to sing, it sounded like his bones were going to break through his skin." As a matter of fact, this is a very good description of the record. Pick up the Folkways release first. Jim O'Rourke - Eureka - (Drag City, 1999) - lp Follow up to "Bad Timing", which I liked a lot. "Bad Timing" was O'Rourke's step toward a combination of avant structure and sound-scape with quirky Bacharachesque pop tunes, leaning much more toward the latter contribution than the former. (It was instrumental too.) That record was great. One of my favorites of the year. This new O'Rourke record "Eureka" takes the process one step farther...much more poppy, much more retro-70's cheesy-sax Bacharach pop. Too much for me. Some songs make longer excursions into the soundscape direction and bore me (partly because one wants the instant gratification of pop music from a pop album and partly because the soundscapes just aren't anything special on Eureka). Then it turns out that this record has a vocalist, don't know who, actually several vocalists, a male lead, subpar in effect to David Grubbs, and a collection of female 60s-era back-up singers. That would be all right ,I suppose, or at least tolerable, were it not for the excrutiatingly bad lyrics. Get a Dock Boggs cd instead. Richard Youngs - House Music - (Meme, 1998) - cd Did I ever mention on this list that this cd is great? It is. From what I understand, different than other Youngs releases, more musical, more volume. "House Music" here means music made from things you could find in a house, like pipes. David K. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 13:33:48 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: brotzman 3CD set FWIW, I just received a new shipment from Cadence which included the Brotzman Chicago Octet/Tentet. Last week or so there was a discussion about how its edition was limited to 1000. I got number 1445, so apparently they've done a second pressing. Guess I'll start seeing it on the Billboard charts any day now. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers - -- Pablo Picasso - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:41:25 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: Recent Goodies On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, David Keffer wrote: > Jim O'Rourke - Eureka - (Drag City, 1999) - lp > > Follow up to "Bad Timing", which I liked a lot. "Bad Timing" was O'Rourke's > step toward a combination of avant structure and sound-scape with > quirky Bacharachesque pop tunes, leaning much more toward > the latter contribution than the former. (It was instrumental too.) > That record was great. One of my favorites of the year. > This new O'Rourke record "Eureka" takes the process one step > farther...much more poppy, much more retro-70's cheesy-sax Bacharach > pop. Too much for me. Some songs make longer excursions into > the soundscape direction and bore me (partly because > one wants the instant gratification of pop music from a pop album > and partly because the soundscapes just aren't anything special > on Eureka). Then it turns out that this record has a vocalist, > don't know who, actually several vocalists, a male lead, subpar > in effect to David Grubbs, and a collection of female 60s-era > back-up singers. That would be all right ,I suppose, or at least > tolerable, were it not for the excrutiatingly bad lyrics. i like "eureka" (easily the funniest artwork to grace an album in quite awhile), but yeah it's syrupy and he lays it on thick. it's as if he focused in on the most poppy extremes of "bad timing" (particularly the horn flourish at the end) and blew them up into a full-length record. i imagine that it's probably too eclectic and disparate to appeal to anyone but a hard-core o'rourke fan. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:15:53 -0500 From: Michael Witt Subject: RE: Ken Vandermark Tom Pratt sed: > Is there anyone else out there who really doesn't like Ken Vandermark's > playing? I love Mats Gustafsson most of the time but I find his more > "Chicago-oriented" records like FJF's 'Blow Horn' to be pretty boring... > (same > goes for the recent 'Background Music' with Guillermo Gregorio and Kjell > Nordeson). Perhaps Brian would call me a sucker for the extended > techniques but > for Gustafsson I much prefer the spastic intensity of discs like > 'Frogging' > (w/Barry Guy) or 'You Forget To Answer' (w/Guy and Raymond Strid) to the > more > standard "free jazz" blowouts. Gustafsson can certainly be an incredible > player. > I'm a long-time reader but a first-time poster. I live outside of Chicago, and I have only been listening to avant garde / free jazz for a year or two. My progression went from a passion for improvised music in general and the Grateful Dead to Miles Davis to John Coltrane to Ornette Coleman to artists like John Zorn and the Kronos Quartet. I lurk on this mailing list because I enjoy reading the opinions of folks like yourself and Brian Olewnick who have gone down many of these roads ahead of me. I haven't heard anything by at least 50% of the artists who are often mentioned here, but I'm gaining ground album by album and with the occasional concert. Thanks for posting your opinions and recommendations. I might go down in flames for saying this, but I think that Ken Vandermark is the most important musician in Chicago right now. Some people might argue that he is simply the most prolific, but I would disagree. Each one of his bands (and there are many!) exhibits a unique and interesting view. He is very similar to John Zorn in the sense that he has pulled together the scene in Chicago by sitting in with many other talented, local musicians and initiating projects with almost all of them. If you look at the monthly listing in Chicago Now, you will see his name at least three times a week, and it is rarely with the same groups from day to day. As a player and improviser, I think he is incredible. Depending on who you hear him with, his playing can be intense and subtle, noisy and beautiful, and intellectual and sentimental. One of his greatest strengths lies in his diversity, but like any artist some configurations and styles are better than others. At the very least, he sustains my interest across his many different influences which include funk, R&B, and bebop, as well as free jazz. I admit my bias, though. I'm from Chicago, and I'm a big Vandermark fan. I saw him a few months ago with Paul Lytton, Hamid Drake, and Mars Williams, and they rocked my world. - --Mike - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:45:17 -0600 From: David Layman Subject: COBRA Hello, My name is David Layman. I am new to the Zorn list. I play with the Cobra Ensemble Cincinnati and am looking for the following recording. Can anyone help me out?? Thanks, David laymandm@email.uc.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 023 - BAD ALCHEMY MAGAZINE + TAPE: various artists This magazine/tape features music by John Zorn "Cobra", Tenko, David Moss Dense Band, Lindsey Cooper, Dr. Nerve, Half Japanese, The Lo Yo Yo, Christian Marclay "Tower Of Babel", Lurex 4/Elliott Sharp. John Zorn plays on two tracks, one with John Zorn "Cobra": 1/ Exercise Nr. 1 (Zorn) 5:50 Recorded live at Moers festival, on May 24, 1985 John Zorn: reeds; Carol Emanuel: harp; Zeena Parkins: harp; Arto Lindsay: guitar; Elliott Sharp: guitar; Bill Frisell: guitar; Wayne Horvitz: key- boards; Anthony Coleman: keyboards; Christian Marclay: turntables; Bob James: tapes; Jim Staley: trombone, French horn; Guy Klucevsek: accordion; Bobby Previte: conductor. and one in duo with Tenko: 2/ Improvisation (Zorn, Tenko) 0:45 Recorded live at the Moers festival, on May 1985 John Zorn: alto; Tenko: vocals. 1985 - Bad Alchemy (Germany), No. 3 (magazine+CT) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------  - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:54:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: COBRA On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, David Layman wrote: > My name is David Layman. I am new to the Zorn list. I play with the Cobra > Ensemble Cincinnati and am looking for the following recording. Can anyone > help me out?? I'm intrigued by the existence of a Cobra Ensemble out there. How large is the group? Do you get together regularly, or only for occasional events? Do you do other material? - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 99 15:55:39 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Momentum Space? Just saw a reference to a disc with this title by a trio consisting of Dewey Redman, Cecil Taylor and Elvin Jones (!!!!). Is this correct? Anyone else heard of it? Droolingly, Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:20:39 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: RE: Ken Vandermark Michael: If KV is the most important musician in Chicago because of his many influences and many bands, where does that leave Kahil El'Zabar and/or Ed Wilkerson? Kahil has (at least) three bands that I know of: The Ritual Trio, Bright Momements and The Ethnic heritage Ensemble Ed has his quartet, 8 Bold Souls and the 23-piece Shadow Vingettes. Do I sense some North side verses South side rivalry here, or have you not had a chance to hear these other (AACM) bands? If you'd like CD recommendations, I'll be happy to oblige. And since you live much closer to Chi-town (or get to visit there more often) than my once a year trip from Toronto, you have an even better chance to see these groups live. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:30:07 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Momentum Space? Which disc is this and on what label? I saw a squib on Joel Criss & Associates Web site offering that same band for bookings. To be honest, I don't think it will work. Elvin's most radical playing was with Trane and since then he's pretty much kept to post bop modern mainstream (or what would have been mainstream if the neocons hadn't come along). Dewey, again, was more radical in the 1970s. I've seen him live and find that he, like Archie Shepp, is as much interested in revisiting melodies and "jazz classics" as playing "out". CT , of course, is CT. He abandoned standards long ago and I can't see him returning to them. But I'm prepared to hear the disc and be convinced. (Sure wish they had a bass player though -- how 'bout Mal Favors, Barry Guy, William Parker or R. Workman? Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Just saw a reference to a disc with this title by a trio consisting of > Dewey Redman, Cecil Taylor and Elvin Jones (!!!!). Is this correct? > Anyone else heard of it? > > Droolingly, > > Brian Olewnick > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 99 16:38:38 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Momentum Space? >Which disc is this and on what label? I saw a squib on Joel Criss & >Associates Web site offering that same band for bookings. Don't know and don't know. I only saw a coupla references on the jazz central station bbs. But one was from someone who had just purchased it, so apparently it's out there. I'll be checking this evening. >To be honest, I don't think it will work. Elvin's most radical playing >was with Trane and since then he's pretty much kept to post bop modern >mainstream (or what would have been mainstream if the neocons hadn't >come along). Dewey, again, was more radical in the 1970s. I've seen him live >and find that he, like Archie Shepp, is as much interested in revisiting >melodies and "jazz classics" as playing "out". CT , of course, is CT. >He abandoned standards long ago and I can't see him returning to them. You could turn out right, of course, but I'd be willing to bank on both Redman's and Jones' inherent musicality to carry the day and, as you said, it's tough to imagine CT playing _too_ straight. >But I'm prepared to hear the disc and be convinced. (Sure wish they had >a bass player though -- how 'bout Mal Favors, Barry Guy, William Parker >or R. Workman? Mmmmmm.....Favors... Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:35:19 -0500 From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: intergalactic maiden ballet > Can someone comment on their album Square Dance (which features Zorn on a > few tracks)? > > > - Jazz/Rock/Funk fusion, well recorded, Some of the heads have a definite Ornette influence, but IMO, the tunes aren't that strong. Zorn's playing is more "in" than usual (not that that's a bad thing in and of itself) If you like some of the more riff-dominated material by Curlew,or The Decoding Society it may be up your alley, others(myself included) may find it a bit formulaic. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:52:44 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Derek Bailey southern US dates I came across these on the European Free improv page, so I thought I'd post them for the benefit of the list. See, not everyone just comes to New York. :) * March 12: St. Petersburg, Florida, hosted by the Salvador Dali Museum; solo * March 13: Winter Park (Orlando area) Rogers Room, Keene Hall at Rollins College: solo & in duo with percussionist Michael Welch * 20 March: solo at Subtropics New Music Festival, Miami Beach Community Church-Hice Hall, Lincoln Road Mall at Drexel Avenue, Miami Beach * March 24: Chattanooga, TN with Dennis Palmer/Bob Stagner; for info: 423-265-6820 or shakingray@chattanooga.net * March 27: Atlanta, GA with Dennis Palmer/Bob Stagner; for info: 404-622-3355 or euprod@aol.com Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 18:02:34 -0500 From: Michael Witt Subject: RE: Ken Vandermark Ken sed: > If KV is the most important musician in Chicago because of his many > influences and many bands, where does that leave Kahil El'Zabar and/or Ed > Wilkerson? > > Kahil has (at least) three bands that I know of: The Ritual Trio, Bright > Momements and The Ethnic heritage Ensemble > > Ed has his quartet, 8 Bold Souls and the 23-piece Shadow Vingettes. > > Do I sense some North side verses South side rivalry here, or have you > not had a chance to hear these other (AACM) bands? > Hi Ken! I enjoy reading your posts. I saw the Rituals Trio perform, and they were excellent. I plead ignorance on the others although the names are all familiar. In my posted opinion, I said that Vandermark is the most important musician in Chicago at this present moment in time. The AACM were certainly more important in the sixties. You might hold a different opinion, but it's kind of a cheap shot to liquidate my argument to "because of his many influences and many bands" when that clearly was not my only point. No harm done, though I refer you to the Chicago Now homepage to see how many people Vandermark works with in a typical month: http://www.cs.nwu.edu/~tisue/chicagonow/concerts.html I live in Indiana, where the only rivalries exist in NASCAR and college basketball. :-) It's truly a great deal to sit in the Velvet Lounge, drink a beer, and listen to Fred Anderson unwind a long solo. Ari Brown plays there every Thursday with Malachi Favors, too. It looks like Lester Bowie is going to sit in with Kahil El'Zabar's experimental orchestra in June, and that looks good - all of these are AACM guys, right? I do not know them from their albums as much as hearing them live, and I'm not old enough to have known about them from the sixties when they were in their heyday. > If you'd like CD recommendations, I'll be happy to oblige. And since you > live much closer to Chi-town (or get to visit there more often) than my > once a year trip from Toronto, you have an even better chance to see these > > groups live. > Please do! I spent about three weeks in a Toronto jail (just visiting) but was too busy to venture out to hear music there. I'm sorry if this isn't sufficiently Zorn-related. - --Mike - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:52:44 +0100 From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Elliott Sharp Hi, I saw two new Elliott Sharp releases in the shop which were in a kind of sealed envelope. (Unfortunately, I forgot the titles.) They're obviously part of some limited edition. Can anyone tell me anything about these CDs? Also, I really enjoy Sharp's "Field & Stream" disc. Does anyone know something about Frank Rothkamm, whether he appeared on other albums etc.? Kind regards, - Chris. ---------------------------------------------------- Chris Genzel -- stamil@t-online.de ---------------------------------------------------- Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Michael Beinhorn & Bennie Maupin at: http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/ ---------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #615 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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