From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #633 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, March 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 633 In this issue: - Re: Cecil Taylor Radio Re: Cecil Taylor Radio Re: Has anyone heard about this? Re: Re: Cecil Taylor Radio Re: soup disk Re: negativland book Re: negitivland- book Concert Reviews Re: soup disk Re: negativland book i forgot... [none] Re: negativland book Re: i forgot... Re: Horace Tapscott [none] Negativland (was SC3) (longish) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:59:36 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor Radio A sobering thought. CT and Bill Dixon are in their eighth decades, Ornette Coleman and Derek Bailey are senior citizens and most people, even jazzers, think of their work as "new" music. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > A reminder to NYC area listers: WKCR is celebrating the master's 70th > birthday today by, as is their custom, playing wall-to-wall Cecil all > day. > > Brian Olewnick > > (I know there's some dispute about his DOB, but KCR's going with > 70...) > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:16:01 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor Radio On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:59:36 -0500 (EST) Ken Waxman wrote: > > A sobering thought. CT and Bill Dixon are in their eighth decades, > Ornette Coleman and Derek Bailey are senior citizens and most people, even > jazzers, think of their work as "new" music. Because people still have this romantic vision of "new" as being identified to low attendance concerts, obscure releases, word of mouth, myth of the true artist who is never understood, etc. "New" is getting more and more used to qualify music genres that failed to attract any significant audiences (besides the usual converted, of course), even after many decades have passed. In other milieux, "new" would be replaced by "acquired taste". But "new" still has the implicit meaning that it won't be new forever, that there will be one day when the unaware masses will wake up and see the light :-). This looks to me more like faith than anything else. Also, some audiences have a hard time to adjust to the fact that what they listen to is not new anymore (some would even feel ashamed that what they listen to is not new or cutting edge). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:09:09 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Has anyone heard about this? This is a long-lived hoax. See http://www.snopes.com/spoons/faxlore/internet.htm On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, SG wrote: > This was just forwarded to me... No idea if this is just another > internet rumor or what- but it sounds legit- don't think there's a > chance of anything like this ever passing into law, but those members of > the list in the US may want to email their local reps... > Sorry for the interruption- just thought it warranted a mention if it's > on the level... > - S. > - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:12:50 EST From: Tenmk6@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Cecil Taylor Radio .....still love those early ornette recordings with don cherry/billy higgins/ed blackwell/charlie haden.... was very fortunate to hear the group ( minus cherry, higgins w/ dewey redman on tenor ) in the early 70's in nyc......... went back stage and got to talk some w/ redman who was very nice and helpful......didn't get to speak with ornette ( who was dressed like a rock star, heals and all and surrounded by a few beautiful women!) ornette played alto/tpt and violin of which the latter was much too loud......audience members were yelling at him to turn it down....... overall, musically, aside from a bad mix, the concert was excellent, especially the playing by redman and blackwell, who in my opinion, was one of the best drummers ever...... - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:26:02 +0000 From: nils Subject: Re: soup disk Matthew Shepherd wrote: > > Picked up the Soup "Out Of Perspective" comp last week and I'm heartily > impressed. A label that seems largely dedicated to slick blends of > drum&bass and jazz. The jazz end of things is a little light, but it's > still pretty freakin' cool. Man, are you sure you don't have wax in your ears? That comp sux rox. The problem is, it's all loops, and repetitive loops at that. Nothing very creative or interesting. I found myself halfway to sleep before I got so annoyed I had to turn it off. The stuff by Montage and Cappablack is slightly less offensive, but overall this record is unbelievably bad. - -Nils - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:31:53 +0000 From: nils Subject: Re: negativland book Here's the low-down on that Negativland book. It's called "Fair Use: The Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2." A big 270 pp from Seeland press. Comes with a CD inside, called "Dead Dog Records." The book contains the story and documentation of Negativland's legal troubles with Island, SST, and Casey Kasem. For me it was a hugely informative read. These guys went through some pretty deep crap on account of their artistic creativity. The CD is somewhat less than genius, though it has its moments too. I got my book online at cdnow, if I remember correctly (it's been a while). - -Nils - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: negitivland- book On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, alissa bader wrote: > I think it was called _Fair Use_ (not certain). Anyway, I'll never forget the first edition was titled "Fair Use" and was forced out of circulation from the lawsuit. the second, expanded, edition is titled "The Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2". comes with a CD. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:37:11 PST From: "Douglas Clarke" Subject: Concert Reviews The last couple of days I have seen 2 incredibly different concerts, but both I can recommend. The first was Panty Christ, March 23rd in Gent, Belgium, featuring a friend of mine and fellow San Franciscan, sample artist Bob Ostertag, Turntablist/guitarist Otomo Yoshide (I know he deserves further credits, but he is pretty well known on the list - you all know what he does), and Drag Queen Off-Broadway performer Justin Bond. For those of you who saw this band's first (or second) performance as "House of Splender", I must saw they they have really developed and are much more cohesive now then ever. For those of you who aren't familiar with how this band works, basically, Otomo lays down themes and adds noise and sound flavorings. Bob then contributes with sample manipulations. The interaction between these two is always interesting. Then Justin Talks, sings, makes noises, over the music. Generally a piece would center around a half-improvised, severly aggressive story from Justin's twisted mind. This is also flavored by several costume changes (and wig changes) by Ms. Bond done right on stage, and audience walk-arounds. Now I know some of you may find such rantings obnoxious, but that's just what I loved about it. If you really listen, you'll find that Justin has a brilliantly original comic mind, and the interaction between he and the musicians is amazingly subtle. Otomo would respond to things Justin would say in an instant, and suddenly you notice that the music, which seems to at first have nothing to do with the monologue, becomes an intregal part of it. Plus Justin is absolutely stunning. After the show we joined him for a beer and took pictures with the band and chatted and had an unforgettable evening...ahem. March 24th, was The Bill Frissel band at the Stadtgarten, Cologne. The band was upright bass, drums, slide guitar/mandolin and guitar. The sound was straight of his Nashville and other similar albums. Very easy-going, yet sometimes quite intense. The highlight for me was seeing Kenny Wolleson (another native San Franciscan) play. He always created the most simple grooves using such original methods. For instance, he would use a drumstick with a shaker tied to it, or play his drums with tamborines. And he would flavor his playing (which was for the most part, straight) with experimental playing methods. And Bill, of course was also at his best. He played with delay loops and had some extremely nervous monologues between songs. After the show, we talked to Kenny for quite a while. He's super-nice and really enjoyed talking about who his favorite groups and musicians are. (He's a big fan of Mr. Bungle). It was great, I look forward to seeing him play again. I also should mention that Bill and the slide guitarist (forgot his name) were playing very tight, but with very laid back melodies. It was really fun to see them interact. Sorry this is so long. I hope you find it interesting! - -Doug Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:36:58 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: soup disk In a message dated 3/25/99 1:23:31 PM, jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu writes: << Matthew Shepherd wrote: > > Picked up the Soup "Out Of Perspective" comp last week and I'm heartily > impressed. A label that seems largely dedicated to slick blends of > drum&bass and jazz. The jazz end of things is a little light, but it's > still pretty freakin' cool. Man, are you sure you don't have wax in your ears? That comp sux rox. The problem is, it's all loops, and repetitive loops at that. Nothing very creative or interesting. I found myself halfway to sleep before I got so annoyed I had to turn it off. The stuff by Montage and Cappablack is slightly less offensive, but overall this record is unbelievably bad. - -Nils >> I hate to chime in on such a negative note, but I didn't get much out of this record either. each track tends to have one boring idea which it repeats ad nauseum, kind of a musical equivalent to a Saturday Night Live sketch. I've also delved into the Soup-Disk catalog a few times, and never found anything I liked much. but, hey, it's pretty easy to decide for yourself if you want. I believe Other Music is selling the sampler CD for $1.69. Jon - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:45:52 -0800 (PST) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: negativland book On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, nils wrote: > Here's the low-down on that Negativland book. > It's called "Fair Use: The Story of the Letter U > and the Numeral 2." whoops, this is correct. there was a smaller, zine-like edition of this book that originally came out shortly after Island forced SST/Negativland to pull and destroy all copies of the "U2" single. the "Fair Use" book is much more extensive and well worth the read. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:04:14 PST From: "Douglas Clarke" Subject: i forgot... I hope you guys still care, but I forgot to mention that I also bought Panty Christ's debut cd, put out by Negativland's Seeland. (Justin told me this long story about how they had a hard time with record labels releasing it). I must say that it is very interesting, but not quite as intense and fun as seeing them live. Though Otomo's grooves and Justin's hilariously disturbing stories really combine beutifully in the studio environment. (Bob was sick during recording, so although he overdubbed and mixed, it felt like his presence was a little lacking.) Its just that Justin is so visual. They need to put out a video. Also wanted to see Fred Frith in Maastricht tonight, but ran out of dough... spater, Doug Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:10:45 -0800 From: mwiliams@nctimes.com (Michael J. Williams) Subject: [none] For those disappointed by the Los Angeles Times' failure to commemorate Horace Tapscott, there is a very fitting and moving piece on him by Jocelyn Stewart in today's edition (3/25/99) on the first page of the Metro section, left-hand side. Michael J. Williams Oceanside, CA - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:08:35 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: negativland book On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:31:53 +0000 nils wrote: > > Here's the low-down on that Negativland book. > It's called "Fair Use: The Story of the Letter U > and the Numeral 2." A big 270 pp from Seeland > press. Comes with a CD inside, called "Dead Dog > Records." The book contains the story and > documentation of Negativland's legal troubles with > Island, SST, and Casey Kasem. For me it was a > hugely informative read. These guys went through > some pretty deep crap on account of their artistic > creativity. The CD is somewhat less than genius, ^^^^^^^^^^ Negativland is a band heavy on rethoric and litigation but which has, to my opinion, failed to put out anything significant on the music map (some of their songs were fun for a couple of listenings, but like any comedy show, it did not pass the test of multiple listenings). Which means that I would not worry too much about their "artistic creativity" (at least from a music point of view, because as far as litigation, PR, and playing the role of the innocent victim is concerned, they are true geniuses). What was initially a fun and fairly entertaining poke at a big mainstream band (which deserved that somebody makes fun at them), ended up to get very tiring (it seems like it lasted 3-4 years!). They have milked that U2 story for so many years that I want to puke just thinking about it (I almost did at one of their show -- and it was three years after the affair started...). As a result of that, I almost find U2 sympathetic. I think that they are too smart to play the victims. I believe that they knew exactly what they were doing. That the worse the U2 record company could have done would have been to ignore them. Now you are free to see this saga as a remake of David and Goliath -- with the good in one corner, and the bad in the other (hey! are we not supposed to believe that the big one is always the bad?). Patrice. PS: not to mention that without U2, nobody would even know what Negativland is. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:23:25 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: i forgot... On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:04:14 PST "Douglas Clarke" wrote: > > I hope you guys still care, but I forgot to mention that I also bought > Panty Christ's debut cd, put out by Negativland's Seeland. (Justin told > me this long story about how they had a hard time with record labels > releasing it). I must say that it is very interesting, but not quite as ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Are you surprised? With all the litigation experience they gathered during their U2 saga, and all the problems they seem to have with everybody, they have a reputation of being trouble makers (true or false, I don't know). If I were a record label, I would flee them like the plague (I would not want to take the risk of being accountable for their record not selling more than 100,000 copies, and them missing the Grammy Award...). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:37:02 -0800 From: s~Z Subject: Re: Horace Tapscott > For those disappointed by the Los Angeles Times' failure to commemorate > Horace Tapscott, there is a very fitting and moving piece on him by Jocelyn > Stewart in today's edition (3/25/99) on the first page of the Metro section, > left-hand side. > > Michael J. Williams I can't find anything on Tapscott in today's LA Times???? Not even searching the online version. There was a decent commemoration in the March 6 Calendar Section. You have to pay to get it online. Here's the tease from the archives at: http://www.latimes.com./cgi-bin/archsearch-cgi?DBQUERY=Tapscott&DATE=last+6+months&SECT=&SORT=d%3Ah&NITEMS=25 An Act to Follow; The legacy of Horace Tapscott, known as Papa to many in L.A., is pure inspiration.; Saturday, March 6, 1999 Home Edition Section: Calendar ID: 0990020315 Words: 1466 Byline: EMORY HOLMES II SPECIAL TO THE TIMES Musician, teacher and bandleader, Horace Tapscott, 64, will be buried today after a 10 a.m. ceremony at Brookins Community A.M.E. in Los Angeles. Yet it is not likely that his physical passing will diminish the life and vibrancy of the music, organizations and themes he devoted his life to sustaining. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:57:57 -0800 From: mwiliams@nctimes.com (Michael J. Williams) Subject: [none] The Tapscott story was actually in yesterday's edition, March 24, not today's. Sorry for the error. I took the copy off the rack, naturally assuming it was today's paper. Michael J. Williams Oceanside CA - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:56:34 -0500 From: Peter Risser Subject: Negativland (was SC3) (longish) That would be Big 10-8 Place, which I coincidentally have at work right now. A fantastic album. The three best Negativland albums to get, hands down, are Big 10[8 Place, Helter Stupid and Escape from Noise. Each one shows off a different side of the band. Big 10-8 Place is primarily a well-structured noise piece, or actually, two. One is based on repeated samples that form sort of motifs and is really cool. The second side is a narration that is bizarre ("David, where did you put my cigarettes, David? They're under the bird cage, ma. David, for the last time, where did you put my cigarettes? They're inside the TV, ma.") and then treated with bizarre effects on top of that. Escape from Noise is a series of smaller pieces, mostly collages, that are funny, interesting and very well done. Helter Stupid is a tremendous 25 minute collage that sort of chronicles this weird murder, where this kid murdered his family. Negativland called some newsrooms and said that the kid blamed it all on Negativland and their song, Christianity Is Stupid. The news took that and ran with it. Pretty clever. But most important is that the 25 minute sample collage marathon completely holds together top to bottom. It's "backed" with a series of smaller pieces based on radio demo and promo records, which is weird, because you get this huge splash of radio ga-ga that's just so over the top. Not as good as Helter Stupid, but pretty interesting as well. They have two earlier albums, Negativland and "Points", which are alright. If you like basic collage stuff, they are decent enough. I like them, fine, but they are nowhere near as great as the three above. They also have that famous U2 single, which you can find MP3s of at, I think, www.detritus.com. And then they have a bunch of radio show comps, which I'm not so fond of, and other CDs, which I don't think are anywhere near matching the creative brilliance of the top three. Stuff like Guns, the Willsaphone Stupid Show, Dispepsi and JamCon 96 and others, buy at your own risk. In short, they are different than other "noise" groups, because they use primarily samples and primarily media samples with lots of talking and make collages and, well, almost deranged radio plays, rather than just blasts of noise, or short musical samples, or techno wannabe tunes. At least on the three above. Later on they got stupid, as far as I'm concerned. But, each to his own. Probably more info than you ever wanted. :) Peter At 01:37 AM 03/26/1999 +1100, you wrote: >> SC3's first CD is different from their second. >> It's more noise oriented, much like early negativland. At least that's >how >> I remember it. > >Speaking of Negativland, any recommendations? I've heard good things about >them, and about a cd where someone asks someone called David about >cigarettes... That's all I really know, and it intrigues me somehow... > > - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #633 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com