From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #803 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, November 30 1999 Volume 02 : Number 803 In this issue: - Re: PainKiller/Golden Palominos/ Last Exit mp3s... FTP? Re: Avant Garde music Re: Avant Garde music Re: Avant Garde music Re: info needed on the klezmer bands Re: Avant Garde music Tzadik Archive question + Holy Ghost! SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK more mp3s Guitarisms (Ribot/Frisell) Re: musical news that excites me Re: Avant Garde music Re: Avant Garde music RE: PainKiller/Golden Palominos/ Last Exit mp3s Bailey and Avant Garde music Joseph Jarman interview, Uri Caine article Re: Avant Garde music Re: Avant Garde music ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:32:24 -0800 (PST) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: PainKiller/Golden Palominos/ Last Exit mp3s... FTP? On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 TWHY666@aol.com wrote: > Anyone get all of these with a fast connection who would like to set up a > temp FTP? So we all could get a chance to get them? yes, this would be very much appreciated. my isp expires news groups so fast it's not even funny. i was only able to get half of the Last Exit and nothing else. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:38:31 -0500 From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Avant Garde music >has made a deal with Tower Records to create an "Avant Garde" >section. I don't >know the details (all stores? who decides what goes in? when does/did The Atlanta store has had such a section for about three years, formerly way back in the corner behing "local music" but now up front in the corner behind some gift items. The promotional aspect seemed promising, especially pulling together albums that would otherwise be scattered through the store, but the drawback was that Cecil Taylor and Peter Brotzmann among others were removed from the jazz section though Cage and Feldman remained in classical. One problem is that Tower doesn't (or at least hasn't, maybe it's changed in the past year or two) completely use centralized buying so that each store is mostly responsible for its own inventory. One result is that the Atlanta store's jazz stock has been spotty for the past few years and the formerly extensive magazine selection is now pretty thin. And the cut-outs completely vanished. It's nice to see Incus or Avant releases in a store but at $5-6 above Cadence/Wayside prices there's not much incentive to buy there. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:41:39 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Avant Garde music On Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 12:38:31PM -0500, wlt4@mindspring.com wrote: > >has made a deal with Tower Records to create an "Avant Garde" >section. I don't > >know the details (all stores? who decides what goes in? when does/did Surprisingly, one of the few chain stores around here to have an Avant Garde section, last I looked, was the Barnes and Noble in Rockville, MD. OTOH, the cashier was quite surprised when i bought several things from that section, since he'd never seen any one else do so, - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:08:30 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Avant Garde music In a message dated 11/30/99 12:39:01 PM, wlt4@mindspring.com writes: << The Atlanta store has had such a section for about three years, formerly way back in the corner behing "local music" but now up front in the corner behind some gift items. >> yeah, the London Tower had a section like this when I was there last winter also, which included a ton of PSF and Haino material, among other things. I looked at that avant-garde listing that Zorn put together, and it seemed to be basically a listing of Tzadik's artists, plus some older, avant classical musicians. I may be starting a debate that I won't feel like continuing later on today, but I don't think Zorn, or most of what Tzadik puts out, is especially avant-garde these days. I'm not calling it mainstream, and I'm not commenting about quality, but I don't think it's cutting edge, or necessarily even trying to be. I'd define avant-garde these days as labels like For 4 Ears, Amoebic, Plate Lunch, Paradigm, Durian, Charhizma, Or, Perdition Plastics, Corpus Hermeticum, to name some of the ones doing the most consistent work. and I understand that this was designed as an aid for the big chain stores to help them file material correctly, and that they don't carry any of the labels listed above. that's not my point. I guess my point is that Zorn (and Tzadik) have evolved, and personally, I wouldn't describe them as avant-garde anymore. Charlie Parker was as avant-garde as it gets too, at one point, but I don't think anyone would describe him as avant-garde now. again, this isn't a statement about quality, more about genre-defining terms. FWIW, Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com (updated yesterday with some new upcoming releases, among other things) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:06:59 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: info needed on the klezmer bands On Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:10:27 +0100 "Stefan Verstraeten" wrote: > > Anyway, is there an album out from this band (probably yes, isn't it Patrice > 'here are the details' Roussell). Released at the end of 1998: *** - NIGUNIM: F. London, U. Caine, L. Sklamberg (1998 - Tzadik, TZ 7129) Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:36:35 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Avant Garde music On Tue, 30 Nov 99 11:15:24 -0500 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > > copies of the brochure. This list seems to be generated to some extent (but not > entirely) by the Tzadik/Avant catalogs (Evan Lurie is on, but John or Lounge > Lizards aren't, for example). But its not only those names, and it makes no Maybe because John wrote the following ;-): *** - QUEEN OF ALL EARS: The Lounge Lizards 8/ John Zorn's S&M Circus (Lurie) 6:13 Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:46:41 EST From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Tzadik Archive question + Holy Ghost! Sorry if this is basic stuff, but what does JZ mean by "Archive" on Tzadik? Why do Music for Children and Taboo and Exile appear under that Tzadik series? Archive strikes me as a term more appropriate for a reissue. Also, regarding those two terrific Barron/Cyro duets on Taboo & Exile, I swear they sound like advanced (and extended) versions of the drum interludes on the BarKays "Holy Ghost" (the 12" single especially) from about 20 years ago. Anyone know if Zorn's a BarKays fan? Dave Royko - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 99 13:39:28 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK I'll second for Sidewalks. Really nicely put together. It's the sort of record that lends to complete listens (I tend to select and shuffle a bit much), but I think it wears a little thin. Too long, and a little too heavy on vocal tracks for me. One of the first few times I listened to it was on my discman, walking through Washington Sq, past a big Guiness sponsored block party and up the Bowery, and it sounded great. Real street noises mixed in with the recorded street noise. I sorta forgot I was listening to a cd, and at one point really thought there was a horse trotting up behind me. Nicely done (if not Avant Garde, by The List). kg - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:15:14 -0600 (CST) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: more mp3s hello everyone, i had a couple of spare moments, so i put up two new mp3s on my website for anyone who is interested, one bar kohkba, the other sonic youth (in light of recent discussion on the list - but the track i put up is more straight forward than the material on their latest release...). take care, whit http://artsci.wustl.edu/~wwschonb/music.html - ------------------------------------------ William W. Schonbein Philosophy-Neuroscience-Psychology Program Department of Philosophy Washington University St. Louis, MO, USA http://artsci.wustl.edu/~wwschonb/ whit@twinearth.wustl.edu - ------------------------------------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:23:47 PST From: "Dr.J.M. Schuller" Subject: Guitarisms (Ribot/Frisell) Hey does anyone know if there are any websites that have information as far as what gear people like Ribot, Frisell, Bailey etc. use? I am very interested to know what kind of guitar and amp Ribot uses for his Masada contributions.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:57:41 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: musical news that excites me Any idea on the following: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - LONDON 1969 10": The Scratch Orchestra 1999 - Die Stadt (Germany), DS 23 (CD) # Listed in Forced Exposure 11/29/99 (11/27/99): # # "NEW RELEASES FOR THE WEEK OF 11/29/99 # # DIE STADT (GERMANY): # # SCRATCH ORCHESTRA, THE: London 1969 10" (DS 23). "Two recordings made # during the first public performance by The Scratch Orchestra. The # concert took place on the first of November, 1969, at Hampstead Town # Hall, London. Edition of 350 copies." The Scratch Orchestra was # formed by Cornelius Cardew, Howard Skempton and Micheal Parsons in # 1968. Performing into the mid-seventies, the highly variant line-ups # could include some of the following members:Stella Cardew, Brian Eno, # Lou Gare, David Jackman, Dave Smith, Michael Nyman, Tom Phillips, # Eddie Prevost, Keith Rowe, John Tilbury & numerous others. $16.00" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:31:27 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Avant Garde music On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:08:30 EST JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > even trying to be. I'd define avant-garde these days as labels like For 4 > Ears, Amoebic, Plate Lunch, Paradigm, Durian, Charhizma, Or, Perdition > Plastics, Corpus Hermeticum, to name some of the ones doing the most > consistent work. and I understand that this was designed as an aid for the But most people/media these days use "avant-garde" to label music that does not (still) sell, even though the date of freshness has expired a long time ago (put your favorite one here). In fact, many people would be pissed at the idea that what they listen to is not avant-garde anymore. I guess everybody is happy and the family of "avant-garde" listeners is growing every day :-). In fact, to paraphrase the famous sentence about Manet who had lost the composition of the paint used for classical painting: have we lost the skill for making non-avant-garde music? Patrice (who agrees with Jon's list of avant-garde labels). - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:25:59 -0500 From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: Avant Garde music >On Tue, 30 Nov 99 11:15:24 -0500 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote: > > > > copies of the brochure. This list seems to be generated to some >extent (but not > > entirely) by the Tzadik/Avant catalogs (Evan Lurie is on, but >John or Lounge > > Lizards aren't, for example). But its not only those names, and it makes no > >Maybe because John wrote the following ;-): > >*** - QUEEN OF ALL EARS: The Lounge Lizards > > 8/ John Zorn's S&M Circus (Lurie) 6:13 > > Patrice. Hmmmmmm, maybe THATS why Zorn once introduced the tune "Sack of Shit" as being dedicated to John Luries scrotum. ;-) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:49:28 -0800 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: PainKiller/Golden Palominos/ Last Exit mp3s > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Craig Rath > Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 6:22 PM > For anyone who got the Painkiller show - I never got ahold of track 15 - > does anyone have it? Please let me know. The poster him/herself reposted it twice, but it never made it through all three times. S/he thinks the file itself may be corrupted, or it's the fault of her/his new newsreader... > For those that didn't, unfortunately, most providers only keep these high > volume postings online for a couple of days. I just checked Supernews and > they have some Last Exit and Praxis posts from a few days ago available, > but they'll probably be gone by tomorrow. Both of the Last Exit concerts are still on Supernews; Usenetserver doesn't have the later one for some reason or other. Now there's a Fred Frith concert on absm.bootlegs as well... The highlight of the second Last Exit concert is a 34-minute lungbursting monster of a track -- a 50-plus megabyte download which took me hours. (Just pretend it's Kowald playing.) As was mentioned earlier, the premium news servers are more likely to carry that particular group. Your ISP's mileage may vary. The premium news servers (Supernews, Usenetserver, Giganews, Altopia, Newsguy, etc.) vary widely in terms of retention, completeness and speed, e.g. Newsguy is really slow but is generally complete; Usenetserver is very fast but drops a few headers every now and then, etc. As pointed out earlier as well, Agent is generally considered the best newsreader for Windows, but you can also download Free Agent (a slightly less robust version -- I hate the term "crippled") from http://www.forteinc.com. OK, that was really off-topic. Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:22:33 -0500 From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Bailey and Avant Garde music I disagree about that show being worthless, though perhaps that's because I was unable to make it on Fri. or Sat. and thus had no recent point of comparison. I did think Tacuma was pretty silly, and your descriptions of his playing are pretty accurate, but I definitely didn't find that he and Weston drowned out Bailey at all. I found it pretty easy to focus on Bailey throughout (he was in fine and *loud* form, lots of distortion and feedback. Some people had their ears covered), and I thought he acquitted himself quite well. The funk stuff was kinda "just there" for the most part as far as I was concerned. If anything, it provided some humorous contrasts. I particularly got a kick out of the set that began with Tacuma playing some of his funk and then Weston joining in. When Bailey entered, he purposefully played off-kilter and around the rhythm, producing some kind of retarded funk that had me chuckling for a while. Also, I'm pretty sure that was Mr. Zorn himself sitting near me, and his laughing kept making me laugh more. I dunno, I thought it was as interesting to see Bailey work himself out of a bad situation as (I imagine) it would be to see him with more sympathetic players. You also asked about the record with Cyro Baptista. It's pretty good, nothing too shocking (at least from Bailey's end; I have no other reference for Cyro). Derek plays acoustic throughout and he's accordingly in his more lyrical/accessible mode. Cyro plays a whole arsenal of percussion instruments, which create some interesting timbres and textures in tandem with the guitar. He also plays more rhythmically sometimes, and you get to hear Bailey work with that, hopefully in a more fruitful fashion than on Sunday. I find Baptista is quite a sympathetic collaborator anyway. Good, but not essential in the Bailey canon. - -Jesse > The first set, without Tacuma, started rough but after the first 10 minutes or > so, Weston stepped back a little and started responding to as well (instead of > just guiding) Bailey. The last 25 minutes were quite nice (all of the sets over > the weekendwere under 40 minutes, 2 per night). I'll confess to not knowing > Tacuma well and not caring for him at all -- I've seen him play with the Ribot/ > Tacuma/Zorn/Gaugh/Weston band sometimes called Punk Funk Harmelodic, which I > find pretty boring. Other people seemed to really be liking the Roulette set, > although they seemed to be overlooking Bailey as much as the rhythm section, > which was easy to do since Bailey was fairly well drowned out. Tacuma stomped > around, turned his volume up louder and louder, and seemed to have little > interest in what Bailey was doing except possibly adding some ambience to his > groove. He did stop at one point and watch Bailey play pretty closely, one > eyebrow raised, and then laughed before returning to his stinkin groove. I like > some funk. I'm a big Bootsy fan. But even on his own he didn't seem to be doing > anything. Not only did he make it impossible to follow Bailey's ideas, he never > developed any of his own, instead just groove-hopping, grandstanding and > filibustering. The three Zornlist members I know of who were there during the > first two nights were wiser than I in not returning. Of course, neither Tacuma > nor Weston are on the avant-garde list, so what do you expect? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:18:27 -0500 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Joseph Jarman interview, Uri Caine article Greetings, In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever online magazine , you'll find (among other things): Uri Caine A pianist finds Gustav Mahler In Toblach http://www.furious.com/perfect/uricaine.html Joseph Jarman interview Zen and the Art of Improvisation http://www.furious.com/perfect/jarman.html We're always looking for good material so let us know if you have any writing or ideas for upcoming issues. See you online, Jason - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:31:55 -0500 From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Avant Garde music Whoops. I forgot to ask in that last e-mail (hence the previous subject line): Is this list of avant-garde labels/artists on line or easily visible in the real world anywhere? - -Jesse - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:45:25 -0500 From: "Dann-Brown" Subject: Re: Avant Garde music > Haven't seen this mentioned here before. Zorn, working with Koch distributors, > has made a deal with Tower Records to create an "Avant Garde" section. I don't > know the details Well, I do know that the Tower Records in downtown Boston has had an "Avant Garde" section for a few years now. Mind you, it's not a very big section (and to make things confusing, they file Pain Killer and Naked City in the Avant Garde section while filing John Zorn in the jazz section). - -dann - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #803 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com