From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #841 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 02 : Number 841 In this issue: - Re(2): Taboo and Exile Photo RA2WAV program Re: hip, I'll sign with them Hans Bellmer (was: Taboo and Exile Photo) opinion on Tzadik albums Re: Holbrooke on incus Re: dave d. and indie cool Shirts Taboo picture Warsaw Summer Jazz Days 2000 Re: Conjure on CD Re: Holbrooke on incus indie cool, cont'd Re: Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea" Fred Frith Re: Fred Frith Re: dave d & indie cool Re: dave d & indie cool ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:24:52 -0500 From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re(2): Taboo and Exile Photo Heh...leave it to zorn. I wondered what the credit for the "secret photograph" was. On Sat, Jan 22, 2000, ADM wrote: >Whoa mother! I didn't notice that or the hardly viewable picture that hides >the underneat picture! > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: J.M. Schuller >To: >Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:47 PM >Subject: Taboo and Exile Photo > > >> Has anyone noticed the secret photograph hidden under the tray in Taboo >and >> Exile? You must take the tray out and look under the art.... >> Taboo indeed... >> >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> >> >> - >> > > >- > > - -- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | http://www.metatronpress.com | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:03:25 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: RA2WAV program Just in case anyone is still looking for a copy of this program, I found one at the Australian ZDNet site. Sorry- I didn't bookmark it, but I found it with a Yahoo! search using RA2WAV as the keyword. Pretty neat program... =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 03:03:44 EST From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: hip, I'll sign with them In a message dated 1/22/00 8:27:56 PM, you wrote: < (week's) pop sensation could see that person's presence and figure "Hey > Columbia is hip, I'll sign with them." >> I remember reading decades ago in Rolling Stone, when it was a two-sectioned newsprint music magazine, an exec at Warners admit they only kept Van Morrison on the roster for their own prestige. Steve Koenig - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:09:28 +0100 From: "Artur Nowak" Subject: Hans Bellmer (was: Taboo and Exile Photo) Hi Philozorners! > Has anyone noticed the secret photograph hidden under the > tray in Taboo and > Exile? You must take the tray out and look under the art.... > Taboo indeed... For me it changed the perception of the music from this album. Zorn is very concious about the function of the cover art, and "Taboo and Exile" is one of the best examples. Some may say, that music doesn't need such "extras" as special cover art, and this Zorn's approach (to add something to the music through cover art) is an evidence of "weak" music. It's true, for most of the pop artists though. Sometimes the cover art of an pop record is worth more than the music. Most of the jazz artists don't care about the cover, mostly because they are "blind" - I mean, they are concentrated on the music and they don't pay attention to other forms of art. Zorn is an exception here, in this sense, he is one of the few renaissance-type of artists in our century. Not only his ears are wide open, but also his eyes. Also, I think Zorn has a kind of educational mission, I'm almost positive he admitted it in one of the interviews: he wants to make people aware of other artists, and their work. If you put a photo of the band on the cover of the album, well, people only know how the band looks like. But if you put someones art, the people who will buy this record will learn about it. Like the cover of "Absinthe": photo by Hans Bellmer "Les Jeux de la Poupee" - but who is Hans Bellemr? I was shocked when I learned, that the was an artist form... the city I live in: Katowice in Poland! He was german though, since we was born in 1902 when the city was german. My friend found for me an album with the photos of his puppets. Amazing art! Thank you Mr Zorn! __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno AT emd.pl] www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:13:40 -0400 From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: opinion on Tzadik albums Hello list, I need your opinion regarding some Tzadik albums. The thing is that I live in Venezuela and well, to see a TZADIK release here is the rarest thing on earth. Anyway, these are the albums: JOHN ZORN: the book of heads JOHN ZORN: angelus novus MARC RIBOT: shoe string symphonettes KRAMER: let me explain something to you about art JOHN SCHOTT: in these great times thanks again Neil H. Enet - ------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:38:31 +0100 From: "Stefan Verstraeten" Subject: Re: Holbrooke on incus >From: "David J. Keffer" >Earlier, I had asked for a review of the Joseph Holbrooke cdep on >INCUS and some folks expressed interest but no one had heard it yet. Sorry to read this since I gave a review of this cd at the zornlist around the time it was released ( Karen Brookman of INCUS records keeps me updated on what happens on the label, and for thanking her, I mention this release on the zornlist, including her email address where it can be ordered) I actually mentioned that the cd is also a cd-rom that shows some more details, but I had some difficulties of getting access at some chapters, and was asking if other people had similar problems. Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten NP Derek Bailey and Steve Lacy: Outcome (a re-release on the potlach label... will hit the stores soon) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:01:07 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= Subject: Re: dave d. and indie cool Well, cool bands that went from indie to major without getting hurt in the process are Faith No More (WCAL was on some shitty label)...the aforementioned Boredoms, Jane´s Addiction...um, Cathedral released a pretty cool CD in Columbia, The Ethereal Mirror, and were dropped (of course, much more of them were dropped but the issue here is artistic quality and not financial results), Fudge Tunnel and Carcass got fucked pretty bad by Columbia Records after their merging w-Earache didn´t turn out like they expected... A __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:14:04 -0700 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A2hris=20=A7undberg?= Subject: Shirts Well, as Artur was mentioning how Zorn seems to be trying to get his listeners into other groups, I was thinkign of a particular photot out of Sonora. Not someone else's, but one of Zorn. It's on the first page of "John Zorn's Theatre of Musical Optics" On his t-shirt, it says "The Accused" and below that it says "Martha Sucks Brains." Is The Accused a band? Anyone know where I can get a similar shirt? º¢§º Pun Intended __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:49:46 +0100 From: "Rob Allaert" Subject: Taboo picture "At that time we noticed for the first time [John Zorn's] passionate interest in [Children]." About the picture: What's the difference between displaying and approving ? - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:37:29 +0000 From: Marcin.Witkowski@ccmail.eu.sony.co.jp (Marcin Witkowski) Subject: Warsaw Summer Jazz Days 2000 Hi You can find almost final WSJD 2000 program at my web site: http://www.geocities.com/bromwit Bye Marcin - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:39:36 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Conjure on CD On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:20:47 -0500 "Sean Terwilliger" wrote: > > > I have both Conjure albums on CD - The first on Pangaea and the second on > American Clave. Haven't seen either of them around in ages though. THis > first might have been reissued by Rounder when they had the AC distribution. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 021 - CONJURE: Music For The Texts Of Ishmael Reed 1984 - American Clave, AMCL 1006 (LP) 1995 - American Clave, AMCL 1006 (CD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1995, then not too long ago. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:50:08 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Holbrooke on incus On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:38:31 +0100 "Stefan Verstraeten" wrote: > > NP Derek Bailey and Steve Lacy: Outcome (a re-release on the potlach > label... will hit the stores soon) Darn! I was at the concert. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:24:14 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: indie cool, cont'd Caleb sez: we would probably not all be here together if JZ hadn't gotten his deal on Nonesuch and we were relying on his Parachute releases for knowledge of his activities. good point, although given zorn's entrepreneurial bent (not a criticism by any means), i can't imagine that he wouldn't have ended up in the same place, if by a different route. i don't think a short-lived deal with nonesuch (which i understand he wasn't entirely pleased with) made him the producer and figurehead he is today. so when does a label become major? is it a matter of resources? distribution? being owned by seagrams? i wouldn't call tzadik a major label, but it's certainly well distributed and somewhat widely recognized (compared to screwgun or hopscotch or aum fidelity anyway). i think the fine young trio satleh must be tickled to get more exposure than they probably would have imagined anytime soon with a release pairing them with the masada string trio (slated for release late this year, i believe). but then, it won't be getting them stand-up displays at hmv or guest shots on jay leno. or is being a major label like being a member of the u.n. -- you're in because you're in and someone else isn't because they ain't? just wondering... kg - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:45:56 -0500 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea" At 11:05 AM +1100 1/22/00, Julian wrote: > > Being the group's first performance, some of the changes were not as > > smooth as they could have been. Tim had to eye the other players to > > let them know a new part was coming. I noted that Tom Rainey did not > > need these cues. It seems he may be Tim's right hand man. > >I don't know much about Berne's compositional style, but from this >description I was wondering: is it possible that the cues being given were >quite necessary "end of solo" type cues that would be different for every >performance? And the reason the drummer didn't need them was that he would >just play through them while the other instruments needed to change for the >new section? Just curious, I have heard very little Tim Berne... Some of the cues were of that nature but others were transitions from one composed section to another. Tom Rainey just seemed to know the music in and out (or was able to read the charts very well. Dan Hewins - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:39:02 -0500 From: "Ljova" Subject: Fred Frith Hi. Two Weeks ago, on Herb Levy's "Mappings" program, I heard a delightful piece by Fred Frith, called the "Disinformation Polka". Today, I received a copy of Guy Klucevsek's album "Transylvanian Softwear", which contains a recording of the same piece, but, however, in an arrangement for solo accordion. While I like Mr. K's playing, I liked the arrangement with drums better. Can that be found somewhere, on some label, etc.? Thank you!, Ljova - -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin L@Ljova.com http://www.Ljova.com/ "There is no spoon." -("The Matrix") - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:43:50 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Fred Frith On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:39:02 -0500 "Ljova" wrote: > > Hi. > > Two Weeks ago, on Herb Levy's "Mappings" program, I heard a delightful piece > by Fred Frith, called the "Disinformation Polka". > > Today, I received a copy of Guy Klucevsek's album "Transylvanian Softwear", > which contains a recording of the same piece, but, however, in an > arrangement for solo accordion. > > While I like Mr. K's playing, I liked the arrangement with drums better. Can > that be found somewhere, on some label, etc.? Might be: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 187 - ?WHO STOLE THE POLKA? Guy Klucevsek Guy Klucevsek interprets compositions by William Obrecht, David Garland, John King, Fred Frith, Peter Zummo, Bill Ruyle, Lois V Vierk, Phillip Johnston, Thomas Albert, Carl Stone, Mary Jane Leach, David Mahler, Elliott Sharp, A. Leroy. 4/ The Disinformation Polka (Fred Frith) 4:06 Recorded at Baby Monster Studios, New York in July 1991 (4,13) recorded at Baby Monster Studios, New York in January 1990 Produced by Bobby Previte Guy Klucevsek: accordion, vocals; John King: electric guitar, electric vio- lin, dobro, vocals; David Hofsta: Fender bass, doublebass, tuba; Bill Ruyle: drums, marimba, triangle; David Garland (1,2,9,12,14): voice, whistling; Thomas Buckner (8): voice; Nicolas Collins (9a): trombone-propelled electro- nics; Jaguar Wishbone Connecticut (1,2,4,7,13): drums; Erik Friedlander (5, 8): cello, vocals; Mary Rowell (5,6,8,9a,10,14): violin, vocals; Elliott Sharp (13): voice, tenor; Dubmeister Wally (9a); Douglas Wieselman (7): cla- rinet. 1991 - Eva (Japan), WWCX 2037 (CD) 1996 - Evva (Japan), ??? (CD) Note: Fred Frith does not play on this record. Note: Bobby Previte appears under an alias ("Jaguar Wishbone Connecticut"). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:23:34 EST From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool I'd like to add that, as the jazz buyer for Tower here in Philly, I've already been approached by the BMG rep about the new Dave Douglas (granted, she's a jazz/classical specialist) about the recent signing and forthcoming new release. She provided me with a copy of the latest cover story from JazzTimes or whichever poopy music mag it was. To boot, there will be a Dave Douglas display specially devoted to the new release. I shit you not. matt - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:22:37 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > > << While I can't think of many alternative rock bands that truly flourished > after passing from an indie to a major since Nirvana >> > > I'm not exactly sure whether you're talking about artistically or financially > flourishing here. Well, upon reflection, I guess I meant both and neither at the same time. (Huh?) You are most definitely right on the money in everything you say about Boredoms, Ween, Stereolab and Monster Magnet, artistically. But in none of these cases has this resulted in any kind of huge leap in mainstream awareness of these acts (Stereolab a minor exception, perhaps), I'd argue. And most likely the sales figures reflect this to varying degrees. Have any of these bands (again, Smashing Pumpkins and the currently-being-sued Hole aside) sold so much more because they're on a major? Debatable. Have they received more press attention because they are or were on a major? Most likely, but even that's arguable - for such bands, a feature in Magnet means more to fans than a feature in People, anyway. Have their records been stocked by (and subsequently returned by) more stores across the USA? Almost assuredly. In a subsequent e-mail A. made some good points about what happened when Faith No More and Jane's Addiction hit the majors - both improved demonstrably on an artistic level, resulting in well-deserved and comparatively vast sales, and I'd argue that it was largely because of major label recording schedules and budgets. In the former case, it also helped that Mike Patton happened to replace Chuck Mosely, but even that might not have had the same impact if there hadn't been major label funds to make the breakthrough video for "Epic" - nothing they did after that single had nearly the same aboveground impact. In the latter case, major label recording bucks definitely helped Jane's Addiction get the totality of their package across... no matter how cool the original Triple X version of "Jane Says" might have been, nothing on that live debut album could have propelled the band into the spotlight in the same way that the titanic (and no doubt expensive) production of 'Nothing's Shocking' did. And it's also clear that none of the various side projects of the various Jane's members has been able to recapture that initial rush... but I'll bet that 'Nothing's Shocking' and 'Ritual de lo Habitual' are still selling. I guess those are two more examples to add to Jon's regarding indie bands whose quality of output improved after switching to the majors. On the other hand, Husker Du improved not at all, and fell apart in a hurry... Same with fIREHOSE. Re: the Columbia/Earache merger, ill-advised on all parts: none of the Earache bands did their best work for Columbia, though maybe Cathedral came close (and for some reason Earache continues to claim 'Fear, Emptiness, Despair' as some kind of high water mark for Napalm Death - NOT). And Carcass, in mainstreaming their approach for their one Columbia release, went a long, long way towards what the true grindcore fans would (and DID) call "selling out" - mind you, 'Heartwork' is one of my very favorite albums of all, but it's not an especially good representation of what Carcass was originally all about - and they STILL managed to get screwed and then dropped. I'm surmising that at some point there really is a fundamental difference between alternative art and popular culture, and no matter how a major may try to co-opt the indie cred of an alternative label or act, eventually there's nothing major label money alone can do to break and sustain a radically different band. (Most of the abovementioned success stories where sales are concerned are bands based in some significant way upon the received and embalmed rock tradition[s].) You can put the Boredoms in the bins of the most mainstream store in the heartland and maybe even get a review planted in Entertainment Weekly, but can you maken the *average* heartland buyer want to purchase their recordings? And if the answer is no, is it because the Boredoms have in some way failed? Or another way to state it: does every alternative success stand a chance of becoming a mainstream success? It'll be interesting to see how the mainstream will embrace Dave Douglas's clearly and understandably jazz-based sextet in a tribute to Mary Lou Williams, given his indie cred, and even more interesting to see how they react to subsequent recordings by Charms of the Night Sky and beyond. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #841 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com