From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #929 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, May 9 2000 Volume 02 : Number 929 In this issue: - too many bull-shit on this list Re: too many bull-shit on this list Re: too many bull-shit on this list lsdc+w (long) Suggestions good and evil Re: good and evil Re: voyeur [was: too many bull-shit on this list] Marc Ribot y los Cubanos Postizos that's not music! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 23:27:47 +0200 From: Filip Wilms Subject: too many bull-shit on this list Today I received 39 messages from the zorn-list, an just a few of them where concerning jazz. In the rest of them they wrote some useless bull-shit, instead of some interesting concert or CD reviews. Is it that hard to understand that this is a mailing list and not a chat-channel? By the way, who gives a fuck about John Zorn beeing against MP3. Yours sincerely, Evil Dick - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 14:40:23 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: too many bull-shit on this list On Tue, 09 May 2000 23:27:47 +0200 Filip Wilms wrote: > > Today I received 39 messages from the zorn-list, an just a few of them > where concerning jazz. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ You might be confused because this list does not really cover jazz. > In the rest of them they wrote some useless bull-shit, instead of some > interesting concert or CD reviews. I am always amazed by people who lurk on the list and never open their mouth to share their great knowledge except for complaining... What is the equivalent of "voyeur" for people lurking in a list without contributing at all. If you were a significant contributor to this list, I would at least understand where you are coming from. Since I don't remember anything of value posted by you, I have less reasons to be indulgent. > Is it that hard to understand that this is a mailing list and not a > chat-channel? And so what? A discussion getting off hand once in a while does not hurt. If your time is so precious, you might better unsubscribe since the list does not appear to be up your standard. > By the way, who gives a fuck about John Zorn beeing against MP3. > > Yours sincerely, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ At least you are polite. Patrice. > Evil Dick > > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:40:46 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: too many bull-shit on this list Concert and CD reviews? Sounds like you're confusing this with an "announce" list. These show up on occasion, but not on a predesigned basis. From what I've gathered, this is a "discussion" list and that's precisely what we're doing... - -- np: Centipede- Septober Energy =dg= =============================== In a message dated Tue, 9 May 2000 5:34:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Filip Wilms writes: << Today I received 39 messages from the zorn-list, an just a few of them where concerning jazz. In the rest of them they wrote some useless bull-shit, instead of some interesting concert or CD reviews. Is it that hard to understand that this is a mailing list and not a chat-channel? By the way, who gives a fuck about John Zorn beeing against MP3. Yours sincerely, Evil Dick - - >> - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:07:32 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: lsdc+w (long) oops -- thought i sent this last week. turns out i sent it to eugene himself rather than zornlist. kinda embarassing. anyway, here's the big part of what i meant to post about eugene's cdrs >>> i received some questions about the chadbourne cd-r releases from listmembers which i can't altogether answer. (while i may be a chadzealot, i'm not officially a promoter). but here's some info, including a little bitta zorn content, that i'll pass to the masses. bruce at downtown music gallery (nyc) stocks the 5 new cd-r's, plus the new 'i talked to death in stereo' on leo. the cd-r's are all previously released stuff (if only on his homemade cassettes). one disc of duets with kaiser and loren mazzance connors, one of hendrix covers, i believe 2 solo discs and the fabled lsdc&w double cd. bruce can be reached at dmg@panix.com. here's his review of 'i talked to death,' since we're on the subject. DR. EUGENE CHADBOURNE-I Talked to Death in Stereo (Leo 276) With Brian Richie, Carrie Shull, Jonathon Segal, Victor Krummenacher & more wackos. This is a collection of four original tunes & five covers for both solo & group performances, recorded between '97 &'99. The title track has to be one of Eugene's best titles ever and deals with concentration and listening for a quintet of el. guitar, el. viola, violin/cello, clarinet/alto sax & theremin/drums. As out there or free as it gets, there is an underlying focus to the proceedings. On "Ochre Ringlet & "Don't Happy, Be Worry" Dr. Chad plays all the instruments (piano, alto sax harmonica and organ), a first for him. He does a fine job of layering these instruments on top of one another in a harmelodic mass that has a twisted charm. "Don't Happy" has hilarious lyrics about custom official snafus and is a quaint yet weird rendition. "I'll Never Smile Again" is one of the three standards that Eugene tackles for solo guitar & voice and it receives a sad, soft, eloquent reading. Rogers & Hart's "Glad to be Unhappy" is done by a trio of dobro, acoustic bass guitar & oboe with Eugene doing his hilarious Satchmo vocal. The two Albert Ayler covers are done by both the twisted quintet and the odd acoustic trio, with "Prophecy" getting the amazing cosmo-spastic out-jazz treatment and "Change Has Come" also receiving a hyper-out-to-lunch free/jazz acoustic version. Dr. Chad is backed by his two partners from Camper Van Chadbourne on "The Walking Dead" for a spooky, nimble fingered acoustic journey through horror movie soundtrack inspired hell. The closing benediction is a solo cover of "I've Got a Crush on You" by the Gershwins, another quaint way to end this groovy collection. $14. ok now. lister stephane sent me the track lists for previous versions of lsdc&w (which includes -- hold on for relevance -- folks like zorn, cora and kramer). the new double cd, fully title "LSDC&W THE AMAZING STORY OF THE CHADBOURNES A New Chadbourne Genealogy" is nearly identical to the homemade casette "history of the chadbournes" i got from eugene last year. The cassette ends with the george jones song 'tall trees'; the cd instead has the stones' wild horses and loretta lynn's 'nobody loves me but my mother.' here, then, is the track listing, followed by what stephane sent me for past releases: LSDC&W THE AMAZING STORY OF THE CHADBOURNES A New Chadbourne Genealogy" 1. Take This Job and Shove It (David Allen Coe) 2. Somethin' Else (Eddie Cochran) 3. Down at the Corner at a Bar Named Kelly's (Johnny Paycheck) 4. Hurry Home Darlin' (McGee) 5. Nobody's Lonesome for Me (Hank Williams) 6. Tom Cat's Kitten (McGee) 7. Eating Out of Your Hand (McGee) 8. Move It On OVer (Hank Williams) 9. Moanin' the Blues (Merle Haggard) 10. Pitter Patter Panther (Duke Ellington) 11. In the Night (Professor Longhair) 12. I've Just Seen a Face (Lennon/McCartney) 13. Birthday (Lennon/McCartney) 14. Octopus' Garden (Ringo Starr) 15. I'm the Only Hell My Mama Ever Raised (Bobby Braddock) 16. W Va Spec (Chadbourne) 17. Reincarnation (Lord Kitchener) 18. (If I'm Gonna Sink (Johnny Paycheck) 19. Hurry Home Darlin' (McGee) 20. Day Tripper (Lennon/McCartney) 21. Tennessee Flattop Box (Johnny Cash) 22. Burma Shave (Roger Miller) 23. Wine Me Up (Faron Young) 24. Kansas City Star (Roger Miller) 25. This Town (Roger Miller) 26. Bluegrass Breakdown (BIll Monroe) 27. Bound to Ride (trad.) 28. Glad All Over (Carl Perkins) 29. Live Fast, Love Hard, Die Young (Faron Young) 1-7 kramer/david licht/cora/ec 8-14 add zorn 15-29 kramer/licht/chadbourne (which would soon become shockabilly) i haven't listened closely enough yet (sorry) to determine whether these line- ups, as suggested by the liner notes (if you have any of eugene's homemade releases, you know what i mean), are complete. from the looks of the info from other discs, it may not be. that's yet to be determined, but there have at least been cassette releases of the chadbournes nee shockabilly trio that are not included in the new release. here's the other release info, then i promise i'll let you go. 030 - LSDC&W - THE HISTORY OF THE CHADBOURNES IN AMERICA: Eugene Chadbourne 1/ The Beatles Meddley 22:10 1a/ Day Tripper (Lennon, McCartney) 1b/ I've Just Seen A Face (Lennon, McCartney) 1c/ Birthday (Lennon, McCartney) 1d/ Don't Pass Me By (Ringo Starr) 1e/ Octopus Garden (Ringo Starr) 1f/ Taxman (Harrison) 1g/ Startin' Over (Lennon) 2/ In A Sentimental Mood (Pt.1) (The Duke) 0:50 3/ In A Sentimental Mood (Pt.2) (The Duke) 7:00 4/ Winchester, VA 3:00 5/ Tennesee Flattop Box (Johnny Cash) 3:01 6/ Dr. Chadbourne's Ordeal In Nashville 3:02 7/ Burma Shave (Roger Miller) 3:03 8/ Dixie Fried (Carl Perkins) 4:04 9/ Wine Me Up (Faron Young) 1:56 10/ Roger Miller Medley 8:00 a/ This Town b/ Kansas City Star c/ My Uncle Used to Love Me But She Died 11/ House Burning Down (Jimi Hendrix) 3:05 12/ Third Stone From The Sun (Jimi Hendrix) 3:01 13/ Funny How Time Slips Away (Willie Nelson) 4:49 14/ Ghosts (Albert Ayler) 2:01 15/ 7+7= (Arthur Lee) 2:50 16/ Burl Ives Medley 2:00 17/ Wild Horses (Jagger-Richards) 4:04 18/ W Va Spec (Zorn Tribute) 5:06 19/ Nobody Loves Me But My Mother (B.B. King) 2:26 20/ No Reason To Quit (Merle Haggard) 3:02 Doug Baker (17): acoustic guitar; Eugene Chadbourne: guitars, vocals (all); Jenny Chadbourne (17): percussion & toy machine guns; Tom Cora (1,5-10,18): cello, cello-resonated objects; David Doyle (17): classical guitar; Gilfred Lee Frey (17): acoustic piano; Doug Henderson (17): slide guitar; Rudy Hinnant (17): lousy guitar; Toshinori Kondo (1e,2,18): trumpet, euphonium, garbage; Kramer (1,2,6,7,11-14,18): cheap organ & tapes, PacMan; David Licht (1,4-15,18): percussion; Loretta Lynn (19): uninvited vocals; Scott Manring (1,18): lap steel; M.E. Miller (2): drums; Brad Newell (17): mandolin; David Nikias (17,19): percussion & toy machine guns, speciman (sic) jars & feed- back; Murray Reams (19): percussion & cover charge; Tom Shephard (4,15): homemade electric bass; Jeff Weichinger (17): electric bass; John Zorn (1, 18): alto, soprano, clarinet, game calls; 1987 - Fundamental, Save 19/20 (2xLP) Note: the CD version of this 2xLP does not contain the tracks featuring John Zorn or Tom Cora. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- *** - LSDC&W: The Chadbournes 1/ Day Tripper (Lennon, McCartney) 2/ Blues Come Around (Hank Williams) 3/ Taxman (Harrison) 4/ Train (Burnette) 5/ I've Just Seen A Face (Lennon, McCartney) 6/ Birthday (Lennon, McCartney) 7/ Don't Pass Me By (Ringo) 8/ Bound To Ride (P. D.) 9/ Tennesee Flattop Box (Cash) 10/ In A Sentimental (The Duke) 11/ W. Va spec. (Chadbourne) 12/ Gotta Get Drunk (Willie) Recorded during 1980-81 Produced by Chadbourne. Tom Cora: cello; Eugene Chadbourne: guitar; Kramer: cheap organ, tapes; John Zorn: Bb clarinet, alto, soprano, game calls; Scott Manring: lap steel; Toshinori Kondo: trumpet; David Licht: percussion. ???? - Parachute? (USA), PA-14 (CT) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- are there any chadbourne completists/archivists in the world? just wondering... rock on. np: joel futterman/william parker/jimmy williams authenticity - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 10:46:25 +0200 From: "Rob Allaert" Subject: Suggestions Guys, It's been a while since I read something on this list about the wonderful group Pachora. I've seen 'em live some weeks ago. Awesome concert. They are absolute virtuosos. Especially "AST", the new album, is utterly perfect and a must have. I believe that people without a copy should unsubscribe from this list ;-) Also, "Romance with the Unseen" (Byron, Frisell, Gress, DeJohnette) is so good. Because of the lousy Beatles tune and two interludes on the album your first impression tends to be "I don't know". But further listenings reveal a great collection of songs. About DD: Listen to 'Soul on Soul' via the song 'Mary's Idea' and play it loud. You will enter into the rest of the album. As for "Leap of Faith": travel through the songs via "Another Country" and "Mistaken Identity". They reveal absolute soloing. Simply amazing. Go get these albums NOW and quickly add "Skin" by Topaz! Any other reviews on the above mentioned albums? Rob, Belgium - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:39:12 EDT From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com Subject: good and evil ah this is madness i love it. now that this issue has been beaten to a pulp (quite an eloquent conclusion with the "Go John -- Go Trey" number) consider the truth in the good and evil comment. does it not seem to be the case that mr. zorn indeed can no longer tell the difference between good and evil?? what started out as a healthy robust cynicism toward corporate america seems to have manifested into an all-out paranoia toward virtually anything that does not exist within the comfy walled confines of his posse which was established about 15 years ago now. yes there are exceptions. but very very few. in the back of my mind hoping i'm wrong about this, joseph b - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:12:49 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: good and evil On Tue, May 09, 2000 at 08:39:12PM -0400, XRedbirdxx@aol.com wrote: > does it not seem to be the case that mr. zorn indeed can no longer tell the difference between good and evil?? what started out as a healthy robust cynicism toward corporate america seems to have manifested into an all-out paranoia toward virtually anything that does not exist within the comfy walled confines of his posse which was established about 15 years ago now. yes there are exceptions. but very very few. I'd be interested in seeing a demonstration of any correlation whatsoever between this goofy theory and anything in the real world. Is this the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" school of psychomusicology? - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:35:42 EDT From: "Mathieu Belanger" Subject: Re: voyeur [was: too many bull-shit on this list] Hello, >What is the equivalent of "voyeur" for people lurking in a list without >contributing at all. Since "voyeurisme" translates as voyeurism, my guess is that voyeur is a correct translation for "voyeur". Hope it helps and sorry if I am wrong, Mathieu - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 21:45:47 EDT From: "Mathieu Belanger" Subject: Marc Ribot y los Cubanos Postizos Hello, While looking at the schedule of the Montreal Interantional Jazz Festival (http://www.montrealjazzfest.com for those who care), I saw that Marc Ribot was going to give two concerts with his Cuban music project. I am not a big fan of the records this band has released, but it could be very different live. Could anybody confirm or infirm this hypothesis? Thank you very much, Mathieu P.S. Masada will perform on July 7th for those who might be interested. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:20:56 -0600 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: that's not music! >...the fact the something-or-other didn't resolve, again, the lack >of >cohesiveness. Unfortunately some people who study music theory or immerse themselves in a particular style of music exclusively seem to grow filters in their ears. The words 'resolve' and 'cohesiveness' seem to me to be rather loaded terms in the way that they were used...your friend has a certain concept of resolution and cohesiveness that has been learned, - hopfully tested a little bit but often this seems not to be the case -, and eventually excepted. These concpets of the way music "ought to sound" are of course stumbling blocks to any sort of arrival at an personal assessment of the music -- (the type of assessment that Jon was refering to). >I considered myself much more >fortunate because >I could enjoy Tim Kinsella's unique emo-driven form of crooning and >idiosyncratic >wordplay, while her training prevented her from doing this. an "un-trained" ear is quite an ideal to work toward. (by "untrained" I think I mean more unbiased except for by invidivual inclination...) >Am I missing >something in >the music that prevents me from appreciating it like it should be >appreciated. I'm sure my reaction must be pretty predictable, but I'm gathering that you have functioning ears, you can reflect on your experience of an event in time, and you are a living human being...personally I don't feel any further prerequisites are necessary. I agree with what Jon said -- unless you are the musician you can never really appreciate the music as it "should" be appreciated. I think most musicians would rather hear your actual reaction on a more personal level rather that hearing how amazing you thought that chromatic passage was. -- needless to say, often nothing is said -- I know that as a musician myself I value aesthetic reaction/criticism over the type of analitical reactions which "learned" musicians can be prone to offering. >One of the things that I like about it is that it isn't functional >music. You can't >dance to it, it really doesn't evoke too much of an emotional responce, >and it sure >as hell ain't background music. The 'artificial' emotional responses that seem present in many (popular) musics are also a form of "training." You can be trained to accept only certain reactions which your *existance* offers to you. On the other hand maybe these emotions are simply reflections of the type of emotions which the listeners want/need to bring out within themselves? Personally, I do find emotions in the music made by AMM, but these are not very easily defined and can often change depending on the day or the week. In short - new languages take time to learn. Music is not a universal language. and if you really belived that the rules of grammar that govern the English language were THE rules which govern the existance of language at all then you would probably have a hard time learing Japanese. >OnNow- GMueller_VoiceCrack_ErikM- Poire_Z (this I *know* I like) yup. Matt Wirzbicki - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #929 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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