From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #27 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Saturday, August 26 2000 Volume 03 : Number 027 In this issue: - Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: genres (was Tzadik) Calling out Patrice and Herb long answer to labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: genres (was Tzadik) Re: genres (was Tzadik) addendum Re: genres (was Tzadik) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:22:46 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) In a message dated Fri, 25 Aug 2000 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Caleb T. Deupree" writes: << At 10:20 AM 8/25/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote: > >I separate my collection by genre. I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this. >> No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:42:32 -0400 From: Eric Ong Subject: Re: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell Hey, > On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a > list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell. I've > found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about > ensuing releases. These are the recent and upcoming releases for the MP camp... Mille Plateaux MP 90 GEEEZ `N`GOSH(aka Atom) My life with jesus MP 91 PLURAMON Bit Sand Riders rmxes by Hecker,Merzbow,snd,Randomix,Mogwai,Reenaldo,etc MP 92 SND stdiosnd types MP 93 KID 606 p.s. I love you MP 94 TERRE THAEMLITZ MP 95 VLADISLAV DELAY Ritornell RIT 13 CHRISTOPHE CHARLES Undirected/dok RIT 14 AMBARCHI/FENNESZ/PIMMON/REHBERG/ROWE Afternoon Tea RIT 15 RANDOM INDUSTRIES Selected random works RIT 16 STEPHAN MATHIEU Wurmloch Variationen RIT 17 ACHIM WOLLSCHEID Shifts - -eric. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:01:19 GMT From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) >From: "Caleb T. Deupree" >What >are your genres? How fine grained do you get? Not very. My vinyl is organized into jazz (including avant), classical, experimental (broadly construed), and pop (including rock and reggae). For CDs I have divisions for electronica, avant (including Cage, Xenakis, etc.), jazz, rock, blues, and international. I also have separate sections for Zorn, Laswell, Brotzmann, Coltrane, Miles, Sun Ra, Derek Bailey and Yoshihide. At the moment I have close to 650 CDs and another 200 on vinyl. I also have about 200 tapes. I imagine my collection is fairly sparse compared to the people on this list. My former grad advisor is a metal head who keeps his CDs in Case Logic cases on his book shelf. He finds his music by checking a map he's drawn of the genres--grindcore, grungecore, death metal, etc. Some of the categories are self-inventions. There's also case for a miscellany of other items including Xenakis, Brotzmann, and Bach. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:14:47 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Bill Ashline wrote: > My former grad advisor is a metal head who keeps his CDs in Case Logic cases > on his book shelf. He finds his music by checking a map he's drawn of the > genres--grindcore, grungecore, death metal, etc. Some of the categories are > self-inventions. There's also case for a miscellany of other items > including Xenakis, Brotzmann, and Bach. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "1," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beond Time' (AUM Fidelity) (and DAMN did OTiM sound good tonight at Marcus Garvey Park, along with Little Huey and Joe McPhee's Trio X...) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:17:51 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "1," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:28:33 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) In a message dated Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:20:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Steve Smith writes: << Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... >> Darn- I thought I was being original and stuff... Oh well- I'll stop before the "off topic" police jump in here. =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:34:15 GMT From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) >From: Steve Smith > >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... Great. I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year. >From: Steve Smith > >Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > > > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via >spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. > >LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... True. But I thought it worth indulging Caleb this time around. And I'm always curious about how large our private libaries are. It's the "Auto da Fe" in me. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:41:43 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 12:28:33AM -0400, Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > Oh well- I'll stop before the "off topic" police jump in here. They only dive if you start rhapsodizing here about the Avant-Garde mailing list. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:36:17 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Calling out Patrice and Herb Bill Ashline wrote: > Steve mentioned Patrice and Herb having their own bedroom-run labels. I'd > like to know more about these, and I'm sorry if it's been mentioned > somewhere in the archive that I don't know about. It's actually not as well-known as you might think. Patrice seems willing to talk rather definitively about virtually anything except himself, so I'll call him out for having released swell records by David Garland and Irene Aebi on his label, Ergodic. (Previously he was the "jazz advisor" for Cavity Search and got them to release records by Steve Lacy and Wayne Horvitz.) And Herb Levy runs the damn fine Periplum. Enough said. (You DO still run Periplum even though you moved to Cowtown, right, Herb?) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (tickled to death to realize how close my subject line comes to reading "Calling out Peaches and Herb"... shake your groove thing, indeed...) NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "4," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:45:07 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: long answer to labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell <> actually, one of the projects I'm working on now is the duo of Marcus=20 Schmickler, who records as Pluramon for MP, and Thomas Lehn (012, out in=20 October, I hope). Schmickler played a very nice solo set at Tonic about a=20 month ago, and will be touring here again next month as Pluramon. Marcus'=20 description: "pluramon is, in fact, a headbangin=B4, pretty archetypical,=20 minimal electronic virtual rock project and i=B4m playing it with a drummer.= "=20 dates: THU 9/28 LOS ANGELES, CA Knitting Factory FRI 9/29 SAN FRANCISCO, CA Bottom of the Hill SAT 9/30 SEATTLE, WA Crocodile Caf=E9 TUE 10/3 NEW YORK, NY Knitting Factory WED 10/4 TORONTO, ON Rivoli TENTATIVE THU 10/5 DETROIT, MI Motor Lounge FRI 10/6 CLEVELAND, OH Speak in Tongues SAT 10/7 CHICAGO, IL Empty Bottle << I'm particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days. I wonder if Jon= =20 has=20 thought about working with him.>> I borrowed both Delay CDs from a friend a month or two ago, and only really=20 liked the first track on Entain (previously released on his Sigma CD). I ten= d=20 to prefer abstract electronics to the more beat-driven stuff. that being=20 said, I'd be interested in hearing someone processing him live. I'm not a bi= g=20 fan of most of Carsten Nicolai's (Noto) work either, but he played a duo sho= w=20 with I-Sound at Tonic a couple of years ago that was remarkable, with I-Soun= d=20 adding enough life to the proceedings to make the sparse tones feel soulful.= =20 not processing, but the same general idea. Erstwhile projects, at least so far, are all basically improv records, with=20 minimal postproduction of any kind. musicians like Delay and Thomas Brinkman= n=20 are studio guys, not improvisers (although I've never seen either of them=20 live, so feel free to correct me), so it's hard to set up a collaboration=20 involving them, outside of the processing idea above. in related Erstwhile news, I-Sound (a NYC-based turntablist) just put=20 together a 5 minute "reconstruction" piece called Folded. he stored sounds=20 from the first 12 Erstwhile CDs on his hard drive, then built an original=20 piece from them. it'll be included in the Wire Tapper double CD in the=20 October issue, which subscribers and UK buyers get with the issue, but=20 overseas newsstand buyers don't. press release excerpt: <> a longer version of Folded (around 8:30) will be up on my web site in the=20 next week sometime. <> also, if you haven't heard Dean's Ritornell release yet, you should. pop=20 songs (including Dean's vocals) dropped into a steaming hot vat of=20 electronica, and the remnants left dissolved on the surface, including an=20 awesome version of Eno's Cindy Tells Me. Tim Barnes (the guy putting togethe= r=20 the Angus MacLise series on Quakebasket/Siltbreeze) did a great job producin= g=20 this record (as well as Aluminium). Dean and Tim are recording the follow-up= ,=20 also for Ritornell, next month, and it'll hopefully be out around the end of= =20 the year. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com NP: Art Ensemble-Theme De Yoyo from Les Stances A Sophie (Universal=20 Sound/Soul Jazz), my favorite AEC track ever. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:54:30 -0500 From: "Don Gunning" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) >What >are your genres? How fine grained do you get? The alphabet works just fine for me,about all I can handle. If I didn't have things alphabetized, I'd never be able to find anything (still have some problems sometimes). I do have a couple smaller racks that I keep my more mainstream things in (things that other people may actually want to hear). When I put my CD list on my website I was going to try to classify things according to genre, it's still up there that way although just about everything is either "Jazz" or "Ambient/Experimental". Just got to be to difficult for me to put too fine a point on things, life's too short. What classification does Captain Beefheart belong in? Soft Machine? Steve Tibbets, Incredible String Band? Don't all tell me now.... BTW, this is my first post to the Zorn list, been lurking for a couple of months. I've been enjoying the conversation and have picked up some excellent things already based on recommendations I've heard here. So thanks everyone and keep it up.... back to lurking, Don - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:56:06 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) Bill Ashline wrote: > >From: Steve Smith > > > >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... > > Great. I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year. I hope you understand that my awe was *genuine* and not cynical... my own shelving system is far more pedestrian, and besides, I love the fact that you had a grad advisor who's into death metal. Makes me feel pretty fuckin' OLD, though, and I'm only 34, gadammit... Please tell me that your advisor was 50 and trying to recreate his youth... > >From: Steve Smith > > > >Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > > > > > No order for me, for now. However, one day I plan to arrange them via > >spine color to re-create the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. > > > >LOL. Spoken like a true veteran of the last time we had this discussion... > > True. But I thought it worth indulging Caleb this time around. And I'm > always curious about how large our private libaries are. It's the "Auto da > Fe" in me. Oh, Bill, please don't think I was dissing you for responding to Caleb's request. The fact of the matter is that I simply hadn't gotten around to posting my own response, having chosen to respond to you and dgasque and give props to Patrice and Herb first. Don't you worry, when it comes to a record geek shelving convention, I'll always be the first in line, and I'm not even apologizing about it anymore. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Other Dimensions in Music Special Quintet, "6," 'Time Is of the Essence Is Beyond Time' (AUM Fidelity) (...and as much as I'm loving this performance, would it have been too much to ask of the Knitting Factory to engage the services of a fucking piano tuner? Or are Yamaha Disclaviers supposedly immune to tuning problems? Not the case according to my ears...) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:14:11 -0400 From: Nils Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this. I've > got jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's > Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical' > tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by > continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni > Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff > discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything > else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do). What > are your genres? How fine grained do you get? top to bottom: pop (eg. black sabbath, public enemy) mainstream electronica (eg. amon tobin, bjork) experimental electronica (eg. ryoji ikeda, early squarepusher) classic jazz (eg. miles, bill evans, early coltrane) modern jazz (eg. dave holland, steve coleman, john scofield) classical (modern composers) world (regional organization) free jazz (eg. cecil, mat maneri, daniel carter) blended with avant garde (eg. some zorn) but it tends to result that there is a laswell section containing dub, remixes, last exit, sacred system, etc. these all belong in separate places elsewhere, but i keep em together. same for the zorn records: straightahead jazz, chamber music, rapid fire quick-cut genre-bending tunes... so independent of all other classifications, those two occupy th lower rack. the rack is set up so the easiest to reach is the bottom. people who visit my house and want to choose music inevitably get pissed off that they are too short to reach the music they like. man i really need to get that braxton solo disc. np: john coltrane, a love supreme. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:17:58 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: addendum forgot to include the answer to this, sorry... <> click on Ritornell at http://shop.force-inc.com for descriptions of the ones already out. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 06:03:04 GMT From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Steve Smith Bill Ashline wrote: > >From: Steve Smith > > > >Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner... > > Great. I'll pass it along that he's been nominated as pedant of the year. I hope you understand that my awe was *genuine* and not cynical... my own shelving system is far more pedestrian, and besides, I love the fact that you had a grad advisor who's into death metal. Makes me feel pretty fuckin' OLD, though, and I'm only 34, gadammit... Please tell me that your advisor was 50 and trying to recreate his youth... Actually my former advisor is now 44, just a tad older than me, and he's not trying to recreate his youth; he simply can't stand to live without heavily distorted guitars. But believe me, his organizational methods have been a great source of mirth for all his friends, myself included. I mentioned it for that very reason. Cheers. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #27 ****************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com