From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #50 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, September 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 050 In this issue: - Re:the good dr. how to digest? Re: chadbox? Re: chadbox? Jazz Jamaica Illbient? (was: DJ Olive) Re: catsup Re: Illbient? (was: DJ Olive) Lurie v. Dorf Re: Illbient? (was: DJ Olive) RE: chadbox? Re: ICP in the bay area Cobra @ Tonic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 7 Sep 2000 06:53:00 -0700 From: Dan Given Subject: Re:the good dr. > From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com > Subject: the good dr. > >> Oh yeah, anyone on this list knows why he is call DR. >> Chadbourne? > > short for drop-out. he didn't finish college. least, > that's the way he told it to me. Actually it was high school that he droppedout of. When his parents moved to Canada in the early 70s, he enrolled in high school here, but thought that it was a big step backward from his American education so quit and got a job. Dan _______________________________________________________________________ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html _______________________________________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:45:32 -0400 From: "Ljova" Subject: how to digest? Hi, I'm leaving to Los Angeles for two weeks, and will not have regular internet access. How is it possible to get the Digest version of this list? Due to the usual hard-drive fracasae, I can't find the instructions... Thanks, Ljova - -------- Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin L@Ljova.com http://Ljova.com "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." -Miles Davis - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:18:57 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: Re: chadbox? odd. here's what eugene said to me about same: > I know nothing about the Chadbox, but could make one to anybody's custom > specifications...for a fee, of course... maybe the merzbow analogy threw him, but he didn't offer a complete set per se in responding to my query. but he certainly seems willing, if forgetful. stefan, if you don't mind, what was the bill on your 51-cd set? i probably have enough that it wouldn't be worth it, but i'm a sucker for packaging. kg np: los lobos - colossalhead - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:22:19 -0700 From: "Joeseph Simon" Subject: Re: chadbox? I would like to know this as well. Thanks Joeseph - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:18 AM Subject: Re: chadbox? > > odd. here's what eugene said to me about same: > > > I know nothing about the Chadbox, but could make one to anybody's custom > > specifications...for a fee, of course... > > maybe the merzbow analogy threw him, but he didn't offer a complete set per se > in responding to my query. but he certainly seems willing, if forgetful. > > stefan, if you don't mind, what was the bill on your 51-cd set? i probably have > enough that it wouldn't be worth it, but i'm a sucker for packaging. > > kg > np: los lobos - colossalhead > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:41:57 -0400 From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Jazz Jamaica Hello list, I've been listening to a lt of instrumental ska lateley, especially THE SKATALITES "ball of fire", which has a lot of jazz improvisation. Now, I found a 1993 album by JAZZ JAMAICA called "skaravan". Anyone have any to say about this? Thanks in advance Neil H. Enet - ------------ PS. If you think this is extremely non-zorn content, then email me privately. NP: DAVID BOWIE: earthling in the city - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:26:50 -0600 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " Subject: Illbient? (was: DJ Olive) >_As Is_ (brilliant illbient!)...Some excellent tracks on the best >introduction in existence, _Incursion in Illbient_, also Asphodel. Sorry for the ignorance intrusion but could anyone help explain what is ment by "illbient"? This is a genre...? Matt Wirzbicki - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:57:20 -0400 From: "Peter Risser" Subject: Re: catsup > >>Talking about the Carl Stallings Project, what is the concensus on > Vol.2? Is it better than Vol 1. The Same? Or just different? > > the same, just different. as good as and superfluous to vol. 1. My understanding is that one was a compilation of bits and pieces, with maybe one or two entire scores, while the second was entire scores. Is this not true? Peter - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:17:51 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Illbient? (was: DJ Olive) In a message dated 9/7/00 9:28:34 PM, M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu writes: << Sorry for the ignorance intrusion but could anyone help explain what is ment by "illbient"? This is a genre...? >> this was the term given to the NYC wave of turntablists spearheaded by DJ Spooky, We, Byzar, etc. and the Asphodel label a few years ago. some cool shows live (I especially remember some great Spooky sets between bands at a Too Pure label showcase at Wetlands), but never captured on record too successfully. as always, just my opinion. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 00:57:14 EDT From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Lurie v. Dorf John Lurie (of the Lounge Lizards) and Michael Dorf (owner of the Knitting Factory) have gotten into a pissing match in letters to the New Times-L.A. Here's Lurie's initial letter from July 6 (Dorf's response follows): Steven Mirkin's article says that I continue to play at the Knitting Factory but nothing could be further from the truth ("Smart Club?", Music, June 8-14). I've boycotted the place for years. I made the mistake of bringing my band, the Lounge Lizards, back last year for three shows, but I promise I won't make that mistake again. It actually says in the article that Michael Dorf is respected! I'm flabbergasted! Did Mirkin really find someone who said they respected Michael Dorf?! Please, I beg you, find any musician, or for that matter, anyone in the music business, who respects or trusts the little fart because they can't know him very well. Take the time and actually call John Zorn, Marc Ribot, James Blood Ulmer, Steven Bernstein, Arto Lindsay, Elliot Sharp, Ann Magnuson - -- anybody who helped the little creep get his club off the ground and ask them. These people that I've listed are the ones who got top treatment from Dorf because he needed them. The way he treats lesser-known musicians is criminal. Not only will I not play at the Knitting Factory, I will no longer step foot in the filthy, uncomfortable excuse for a venue. And I'd like to know who thinks the Knitting Factory is "ultrahip." It's a hellhole that happens to be one of the few places to play in New York, so those musicians with nowhere else to play go there. If Jimi Hendrix were appearing at the Knitting Factory, Dorf would rent him an amp with a blown speaker. If Coltrane were there, Dorf would overcharge him for Elvin's bar tab and then short him on the money from the door to the point that Coltrane would end up owing money for the privilege of playing at the Knitting Factory. If Miles Davis were there, Dorf would secretly videotape his soundcheck and then sell it on the Internet. There's no controversy here: The guy stinks and he's gotten rich off the backs of a lot of musicians who, mostly, still can't afford to pay their phone bills. If a musician gets screwed in New York, it's commonly known as getting Dorfed. Dorf is Frod backwards. John Lurie New York ******** And here's Dorf's response from today (9/7/00). Not surprisingly, Dorf manages to promote shows at his club in his response: At first I felt silence was the strongest response, but after all the hoopla surrounding John Lurie's letter to the editor, I felt compelled to respond to both it and Steve Mirkin's inaccurate article in order to help fuel the controversy your publication likes to proliferate ("I Hate the Knitting Factory!" Letters, July 6-12, and "Smart Club?" Music, June 8-14). Lurie is a very talented artist whose band, the Lounge Lizards, was one of the reasons I went to New York to get into the music business. John has performed more than 30 times at the Knitting Factory or in festivals and events we have produced. I really like his music and have always appreciated his talent as a leading composer. Like other very gifted artists, John can also be difficult to work with and sometimes goes overboard with criticism. A few years ago he participated in our jazz festival and to a half-full theater he said, "Fuck the Knitting Factory and Michael Dorf." At first I was hurt, then shrugged it off as an eccentric genius who likes to complain, as he often does, but seems to smile and be my "friend" when we pay him (often at a financial loss) or go to lunch to plan the next gig. His recently cancelled a JVC Jazz Festival 20th anniversary concert (on the heels of his cancelled Knitting Factory 20th anniversary concerts) and his cancelled tours have stung him. He is lashing out and it's no secret. And contrary to John's claim that he's "boycotted the place for years," there he was last Friday, shelling out his money to come to our Ali Farka Toure show so he could jump up and boo when the words "Knitting Factory Presents Hamza El Din" were uttered. The unfortunate part was that it appeared as if he were booing Hamza El Din's appearance on the following night. With our new opening in Hollywood, I feel it is important to set the record straight. Respect is earned and I am confident time will demonstrate the two-way street we have built. We hope the Los Angeles community, both artists and music fans, will decide for themselves. Please join us in welcoming Downtown pioneer (and former Lounge Lizard) Arto Lindsay as our Knitting Factory Hollywood grand opening party's performing artist on September 18; Elliott Sharp at KFNY on October 13 for his Terraplane record release party (on Knitting Factory Records); and Steven Bernstein's Sex Mob at KFLA in December, all of whom, contrary to John's claims, still work with the Knitting Factory, and we are very pleased to host these truly wonderful and innovative artists. Michael Dorf Founder and CEO KnitMedia Oh yeah, and here's the article about Dorf and the Knitting Factory-Hollywood (zorn-content): http://www.newtimesla.com/issues/2000-06-08/music.html jeff caltabiano n.p. dave douglas: soul on soul - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 07:09:04 GMT From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Illbient? (was: DJ Olive) - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " >_As Is_ (brilliant illbient!)...Some excellent tracks on the best >introduction in existence, _Incursion in Illbient_, also Asphodel. Sorry for the ignorance intrusion but could anyone help explain what is ment by "illbient"? This is a genre...? Matt Wirzbicki - - It's a descriptor more than a "genre" used quite loosely to house the varied electronic performance artists that have dominated the NYC underground over the past 6 or 7 years. Asphodel and Wordsound being primary as well as the Baraka Foundation label. There's a fairly decent article in the Wire in issue #154 though it fails to cover anything by DJ Spooky. Some of Laswell's stuff can be classified in here since some of his recordings included parts of the Asphodel lineup and his stuff has been comped at Wordsound (he gave money to Skiz Fernando to start the label). Illbient refers to the collectivization of certain electronic styles such as dub, drum n' bass, and ambient. It was a term coined by DJ Olive as a party joke that later gained currency. Obviously, ambient is in there as is a recollection of Fernando's CD under the name "Spectre" called "The Illness". Fernando is a specialist in hip hop who has authored a published book on the subject. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:31:05 +0200 From: Verstraeten Stefan Subject: RE: chadbox? Hello All, Once again: the "chadbox" consists of ALL THE RELEASES of the house of chadula-label. Concerning the packages: He offers three sorts of packaging. The thing I described is what he calls "his own custom design". Yes, these are the packaging consisting of all sorts of found papers and stuff like that. What I paid for it? First he offers a discount when you buy them all in one time. But due to the imbalance of the belgian franc vs us dollar, there was an agreement to pay in belgian francs. Best wishes Stefan Verstraeten - -----Original Message----- From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com [mailto:kurt_gottschalk@scni.com] Sent: donderdag 7 september 2000 18:19 To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: chadbox? odd. here's what eugene said to me about same: > I know nothing about the Chadbox, but could make one to anybody's custom > specifications...for a fee, of course... maybe the merzbow analogy threw him, but he didn't offer a complete set per se in responding to my query. but he certainly seems willing, if forgetful. stefan, if you don't mind, what was the bill on your 51-cd set? i probably have enough that it wouldn't be worth it, but i'm a sucker for packaging. kg np: los lobos - colossalhead - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 08:52:13 -0500 From: Moudry Subject: Re: ICP in the bay area Graham, I'd love to attend, but being sentenced to Bombingham, Alabama rather than a civilised place makes it impossible. Could I send you the price of admission & I get a copy of the advertising poster if I did so? Doing whatever I can to help support this wonderful music.... At 17:21 04-09-00 -0700, you wrote: > "" people in the area make an effort to attend. > at 8pm at the MILLS COLLEGE CONCERT HALL. > take the macarthur exit off of 580 east in oakland. > > this is totally a grass-roots effort. your support will not go unthanked. > extra thanks in other unnameable unspeakable inscrutable ways......... > > (p.s. i'll grant you they are not THE Insane Clown Posse, perhaps just AN >insane clown posse) > > --graham connah > Saturnally, Joe Moudry Office of Academic Computing & Technology School of Education, The University of Alabama @ Birmingham Master of Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz): Producer/Host of Classic Jazz & Creativ Improv on Alabama Public Radio: WUAL 91.5FM Tuscaloosa/Birmingham WQPR 88.7FM Muscle Shoals/NW Alabama WAPR 88.3FM Selma/Montgomery/Southern Alabama - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:23:44 -0400 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Cobra @ Tonic I saw Cobra last night for the first time. I went with the idea that "I just should see it at least once." I wasn't expecting to see anything that great considering the recordings I have heard but I knew witnessing would be a different thing. I had read something to the effect of "if it sounds good then the game was done well." I was basically expecting some mess of noise prompted by someone. Boy, was I surprised. It was amazing. Not only was it extremely fun to watch but the sounds were actually good too. I tried to jot down the performers' names but I missed a few, mostly because I couldn't understand Zorn. Jamie Saft (organ, elec. keys), Mark Dresser (b), Ikue Mori (drum machines), Steve Bernstein (cornet, slide trumpet), Sylvie Courvoisier (p), ? Lee (cello), Laura Bromwel ? (d), Chris Cochraine (g), Susie Ibarra (d), Fred Sherry (cello), Curtis Hasselbring (tb), and Jenny S ? (violin), with Zorn prompting. I couldn't figure out the rules and I don't really want to go into that because I'd only be guessing and there's enough talk about that already on this list. I'll only talk about a few because they'll enable me to tell the story. I gathered that Zorn was able to put the musicians into groups and assign the groups numbers. Many of the musicians were doing hand signals and grouping themselves with others. Zorn could get them all to play at once. He could hold up a certain card that would enable him to get a musician to play by pointing at them. A musician could don a headband and then instruct others to mimic one another. Because Zorn invented the game he is obviously familiar with the ins and outs of the game. He was able to construct meaningful sessions that worked as "compositions." They did about 4 or 5 sessions in the first set (which is all I saw). Some highlights: One session began with grouping Mori and Courvoisier as a pair and having them play together. Courvoisier played pointillisticly and Mori's drum machines made similar sounds. Very 20th century sounding. So he would keep that pair as the theme to the session and go back to them after having the whole group play noisily. He would raise a ruckus and stop them dead to leave the pair playing again. It was very nice and showed that he was doing more than randomly choosing rules to apply to the group. Over the course of another session he built three groups. One consisted of Bernstein, Dresser, and Ibarra. Another was Saft, Cochraine, and Laura (the other drummer who must be a rock drummer based on the dual toms in rock formation and the WFMU sticker on the bass drum). The third group was Courvoisier and Sherry. The way things fell into place was that the Saft/Cochraine/Laura trio was a noisy, rock type sound. Then when the Bernstein/Dresser/Ibarra group was instructed to play, Bernstein started in on a sultry, loungy, jazz type thing and Ibarra complimented him with a swing type thing and Dresser was eventually coaxed into a pseudo walking line. The other group, Courvoisier/Sherry was more of a modern classical thing. So Zorn would toggle between these groups and it provided an entertaining contrast in sounds. Then Saft gave Zorn the idea to get two of the groups to play at the same time so there was a jazz/modern classical thing for a bit. Then Zorn recombined and there was a jazz/rock thing. Then to the delight of the audience, he held up all three cards to get the jazz/rock/modern classical thing fighting each other. All in all it was very entertaining. Someday I hope I can play! Dan Hewins np: shellac, 11/15/96 empty bottle, chicago - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #50 ****************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com