From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #81 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Saturday, September 30 2000 Volume 03 : Number 081 In this issue: - Re: drummers re: sax/bass wars drummers re: saxy bass wars Re: graewe et. al. Re: drummers Re: Drummers Re: drummers tracking Masada concerts Re: drummers Late period Coltrane article, Silver Apples interview Marion Brown Re: 3 for shepp personnel Re: Han and Terrie [none] Re: and more drummerz minus one Re: Graewe/Hemingway/Howard @ Goethe Institut last night Re: and more drummerz minus one Re: Re: Guy/Gustafsson/Strid disc han and terre and christian and otomo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 01:49:12 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: drummers In a message dated 9/30/00 1:34:11 AM, felonious_punk@hotmail.com writes: << Danny Arnold Lommen - The drummer for Caspar Brotzmann's Masaker group.... What i'd give to see that band live... *sigh* >> these guys played the Cooler around the time that Koksofen was released. it was an awesome set, so heavy and loud that you could feel the breeze from the bass coming from the speakers 15 feet away. very impressive. <> also seconded, a great band that doesn't get enough attention outside of indie rock circles. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 01:38:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: sax/bass wars i think dan's list identifies a lacuna in music that's out there, particularly in recorded form. knowing the playing of many of the sax and bass players he identifies, i myself would be quite excited to hear duos of the sorts he mentions. it seems to me to be a lost art form...off the top of my head i can think of the two sam rivers/dave holland lps, and the dave holland/steve coleman disc. of course, there are more, but wouldn't it be nice to hear more variety...? whit - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 02:51:56 EDT From: DeStijls@aol.com Subject: drummers there is one drummer, really: bill ward - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 01:54:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: re: saxy bass wars after seeing richard davis perform solo, i don't think he needs a sax player.....now theres an album - r.d. solo.....live at mr. p's..... in all seriousness, the most lyrical bass player i;ve ever heard... i've never found a recording that does justice to the solo 'all blues' i heard him perform....he managed to never loose track of the song, while simulatneously improvising the entire way... whit - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 02:20:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: graewe et. al. dan (hewins) described his feelings at the recent graewe gig. jon abbey responded by saying, to paraphrase (i'm working off of digest with a 33.6 connction) that it was georg's gig, and graewe sort of played right through without listening to anyone else. i get a similar feeling from graewe's playing on the reletively recent okkdisc graewe/parker release - graewe basically plays straight through, and parker does what he can over it. the dissapointment lies in the fact that graewe's duo album with frank kutowski (sp) (who plays tenor sax) is great, as is his work with the graewe / risinjer/ hemingway trio. these works are, in my opinion, essential - as if schoenberg decided to play improvised music. but i'm not sure what graewe has been up to since then. dan and jon's comments seem to support my feeling, although, of course, i was not there... death to automobiles, whit - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:09:36 +0100 From: "Alastair Wilson" Subject: Re: drummers JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > << Danny Arnold Lommen - The drummer for Caspar Brotzmann's Masaker > group.... > What i'd give to see that band live... *sigh* >> > > these guys played the Cooler around the time that Koksofen was released. it > was an awesome set, so heavy and loud that you could feel the breeze from the > bass coming from the speakers 15 feet away. very impressive. > Last time Brotzmann played London the gig ended early with some anticlimax as the neighbours complained to the police about the noise. As the track "Massaker" was heading towards a head-pounding conclusion, Brotzmann was motioned to from the wings to stop immediately. He did, mumbled his apologies and left. All that tension and no release...that and the very sparse audience made me wonder when (or if) he'll come back. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 02:11:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Drummers >>Speaking of twisted drummers, did anybody catch Jim >>"Drumbo" French with >>the Rova Saxophone Quartet at KF-Hollywood September >>27? What happened >I didn't see it, but the LA Times review said the >collaboration (for only a >few songs) didn't fly real well. The ROVA and French show was pretty good. I'm not enough in the know on either of them to give a good long and informed recount, but they did a couple of Beefheart tunes ("Steal Softly Through Snow" and another that I didn't recognize) that ended up sounding very prog-rockish through the arrangement to me, which was interesting and cool. The improvised stuff was very hot in spots, but French kept the power on too much in some cases I think. He didn't sound as comfortable when he did get quieter too. When he was solo, he did some stuff like on his "O Solo Drumbo" Avant disc, and that was really amazing. They all sounded good together though I thought. I'd see more like that. - ---Ryan - ----Ryan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 11:50:00 +0100 From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: drummers > Other awesome drummers(or bands with good drummers i can't recall > the names of right now): Godflesh Godflesh, of course, never recorded with a live drummer except for their 1996 album SONGS OF LOVE AND HATE, where the excellent Brain was their drummer. All their other stuff was recorded using drum machines. However, Ted Parsons (from Prong and The Swans) often was their drummer in concert, and he might be on the upcoming release US AND THEM IN DUB as well. Kind regards, - Chris. ___________________________________________________________________ ** Christian Genzel -- email: stamil@t-online.de ** ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil ** Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn The Herbie Hancock Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ "When I came home I expected a surprise and there was no surprise for me, so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:57:01 +0200 From: "DAL" Subject: tracking Masada concerts Hi, As some members of the list suggested, i've added a new page to my unofficial Masada site : this new page aims at collecting info about Masada or Masada-related gigs : dates, places & line-ups... So, if you've ever been to a Masada, Masada Trio or Barkokhba concert, please check back your memory, or your ticket & give me some info, please... my e-mail is dal.sc@unicall.be You can have a look at the still-embryonic page here : http://www.chez.com/barkokhba/masadachron.htm tshaw, S. Dal, - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 07:50:15 -0400 From: Matt Teichman Subject: Re: drummers to make it brief: Rashied Ali Tony Williams Susie Ibarra Ginger Baker Anders Johansson Mike Shrieve Billy Cobham (with Mahavishnu) Elvin Jones (duh) Joey Baron I especially love Susie Ibarra's playing on that Assif Tsahar record, Ein Sof, but she always rules. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:30:50 -0400 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Late period Coltrane article, Silver Apples interview Greetings, In the October edition of Perfect Sound Forever , you'll find (among other things): JOHN COLTRANTE Stellar Regions- John Howard explores Trane's later years http://www.furious.com/perfect/coltrane-late.html BABATUNDE OLATUNJI An interview with the Nigerian master drummer who has been spreading the word about African culture in the States for over thirty years http://www.furious.com/perfect/olatunji.html SILVER APPLES INTERVIEW Shane Christmas interrogates electronic-rock pioneer Simeon http://www.furious.com/perfect/silverapples.html We're always looking for good material for future issues: let us know if you have any ideas or articles to share. See you online, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:55:56 EDT From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Marion Brown To Those asking about Marion Brown, my first encounter with his music was the previously mentioned arista/freedo= m=20 LP porto novo, highly recommended, reissued on black lion cd with double the= =20 material, i believe still available cheap from downtown music gallery=20 (dtmgallery.com) or from distributor wayside music (cuneiform.com) delightfully, marion sits on my shelf between les brown and nappy brown. =20 of course the two esp'disks, and '3 for shepp' on impulse, but also decent i= s=20 "back to paris" with hilton ruiz on freelance,,,,but a hard to find great cd= =20 reissue is a japanese freedom/blacklion TKCB-70034 p.1994 rec. 1970: Marion=20 Brown/Leo Smith Creative Improvisation Ensemble (even tho it's a duo). =20 in an interview i did with Gunter Hampel, to be published soon, Gunter told=20 me: (c) SHK:::>> =20 =93The first concert I did with Marion Brown was Baden-Baden, the big Free J= azz=20 Meeting, in 1967. The bass player was Barre Phillips and the drummer was=20 Steve McCall from Chicago. I lived in Belgium at the time and I drove and w= e=20 were very late. There was television, radio; everyone was waiting for us,=20 and the band had never played together before, we had no rehearsal. I set u= p=20 my vibraphone and Marion licked his reeds, warmed up his saxophone, and we=20 already had to go out on stage. We still didn=92t know what to play. We=20 looked around at each other and Marion turned to me and he said, =91You star= t.=92=20 I started to play a vibraphone solo and I wasn=92t even through with it, ju= st=20 into it a couple of minutes, and suddenly the bass and drums were playing=20 with my vibraphone like no one had ever played before.They were just=20 embellishing it and helping me, and Marion had this beautiful tone and his=20 notes were melting with my vibraphone notes and we played through for about=20 two hours in one set. We just played and listened to each other and that wa= s=20 some of the greatest things we ever did in our lives." (c) steve koenig - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:00:10 EDT From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: 3 for shepp personnel In a message dated 9/27/00 11:56:36 PM, you wrote: <> reading my old mail upside down but if no ones yet responded, shepp isnot on it: brown, grahcan moncur III, dave burrell, stanley cowell, sirone, bobby capp, beaver harris/ - -----regards, steve koenig LaFolia.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:21:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Les Henderson Subject: Re: Han and Terrie I don't know if there are other collaborations between Han Bennink and members of the ex that I don't know about, but I was given a copy of Instant about 4-5 years ago when I was in the netherlands last. It is not a standard album by the ex, but instead is just a collection of songs between various combinations of members of the ex and some Dutch instant musicians (Han Bennink, Ab Baars, Wolter Wierbos, Tristan Honsinger, Michael Vatcher, and Dolf). One of my favorite songs on the album is actually just a duet of Ab and Han Bennink. I don't think that the album comes off as much of a punk album, but a number of the songs definately have that kind of harder noisey edge to them. There is only one song on the album that features only Terrie and Han Bennik, but they are on a number of songs with other musicians too. Another one of my favorite songs on the album is the drum duet of Katrin and Han Bennik. I think that this album might be a bit hard to find in the U.S. I suppose that I have not really looked for it, but the last time I saw it here was at a show by the ex. Les Henderson ljhender@midway.uchicago.edu On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Ryan Novak wrote: > >Subject: Han & Terrie > >Hello,Another Han Bennink question: > >Has anybody heard his duo with Terrie from The Ex? > >Might be the perfect > >punk/jazz combination.ARTHUR_G > > Is this the one with Han and a guitar player? I saw > it once and thought it looked interesting, but didn't > know enough about the guitar guy to buy it. Seemed > like it might be aggressive and noisy, which would > appeal to me. > > ---Ryan > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:01:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Sigmund Nonanima Subject: [none] stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) wrote: >Tony Williams -- probably the most awesome drummer >ever, his performances on Arcana's ARC OF THE >TESTIMONY are killer. and, of course, the classic Miles Quintet... >Mick Harris -- pure aggression, his playing on >Painkiller's EXECUTION GROUND (with Laswell & Zorn) >is incredible. but what about Napalm Death's Peel Sessions? I'd say Mick pretty much carries that disc. okay, I don't know if this has been mentioned, but... there's a couple of discs--forgot the label--documenting West African drumming from Dagbon (okay, I think that's it--it's in storage), they were both recorded by the same guy... (in the liner notes he writes about hering the drums from villages miles away) This is probably too general to even bring up... If anyone knows what I'm talking about, and has the specific information, they should post it, because these discs are mindblowing! If you're interested in any type of tribal drumming at all, you need to hear these discs (whatever they are). Sigmund __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:19:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: and more drummerz minus one Jeff: Don't forget Chico Hamilton --a model of restraint and taste with the first quintet -- Jim Hall, Buddy Colette, Fred Katz,Carson Smith and later with his second major combo featuring pre-psychedelic Charles Lloyd, pre-jazz-rock Gabor Szabo, Al Stinson and Garnett Brown. On Passin' Thru' (Impulse) he doesn't even take a solo. Now that's restraint. However I must protest: Ginger Baker? Ken Waxman - --- Jeffcalt@aol.com wrote: > kurt_gottschalk@scni.com writes: > > funny thing, tho, is i think it's a rare drummer > that does excels as a leader.anyone agree? > > In jazz, those exceptions are the leaders Art > Blakey, Max Roach, Elvin Jones, Rashied Ali, Ronald Shannon Jackson, and more recently Gregg Bendian and > Ginger Baker. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:29:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Graewe/Hemingway/Howard @ Goethe Institut last night Unless Howard was going to be left "naked" on the stage -- I don't know what other instruments he brought along -- if "major parts of his keyboard had broken" why play it at all? Last night in Buffalo I saw Quagmire -- William Parker, Oliver Lake and Jin Hi Kim. Kim had both and acoustic and an "electric" komungo set up on stage, but never played the later because of technical problems, she finally explained. And the show went on quite well without it. Heck I woulda just settled for seeing Oliver (on flute, surved soprano and alto saxophones) and WP (on bass, wood flute, sintar, kalimba) anyways. Ken Waxman - --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > < messing around as far as I could see.>> > > to be fair, major parts of his keyboard had broken a few days before. he looked into renting a replacement, but it was a $6000 deposit, plus $75 a day. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:38:42 +0200 From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" Subject: Re: and more drummerz minus one Ken Waxman wrote > > However I must protest: Ginger Baker? > What's wrong with Baker ? In 7TS he lead his own band Airforce JM - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:42:24 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Sigmund Nonanima wrote: > there's a couple of discs--forgot the > label--documenting West African drumming from Dagbon > This is probably too general to even bring up... > If anyone knows what I'm talking about, and has the > specific information, they should post it, because > these discs are mindblowing! Sigmund might be referring to "Master Drummers of Dagbon" a 1985 recording by John Miller Chernoff issued on Rounder (5016), a very excellent album! Brian Olewnick NP: Rudolph Grey - Mask of Light - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:44:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Guy/Gustafsson/Strid disc Ryan: You can get Maya stuff from Cadence/North Country in the U.S. and Verge in Canada. And I think Maya itself (in Ireland now) will even do mail order. Ken Waxman - --- Ryan Novak wrote: > Hi, > > A while back someone mentioned this recording ("You > Forget to Answer") in response to my request for > more "Mouth Eating Trees" type improv. I've discovered that it's on the Maya label, but I don't know where I can purchase it from. Any help is appreciated, > thanks. > Don't forget to answer... _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:37:59 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: han and terre and christian and otomo wouldn't *that* be a band? the han and terre disc is a duo with the guitarist from the ex. (adorably, they seem to go by just first names within the band, but adopt the surname 'ex' on other projects, thus this is han bennink and terre ex). and if you don't know the ex, ryan, you should. great dutch punk band of 20 yrs or so. the han'n'terre is quite good, but better is a two cd set by the ex called 'instant compositions' (no doubt an homage to the icp) with folks like ab baars and, hell, i dunno who all. another more song-oriented collaboration is the 2cd 'joggers and smoggers', also with many of the dutch improvisin folks. they also recorded 2 great discs with tom cora, 'scabbling at the lock' and 'even the weatherman, uh, something... general rule for the ex is they just keep getting better. their early 80s stuff is kinda ruff. their most recent, joggers and smoggers, is great, smart, straight-ahead intelligent punk, provided you're an anarchist or anarchist- friendly. and bill, sorry, but i couldn't resist. i had the otomo/christian disc weeks ago here in nyc. ah ha ha ha ha ha. kg np: joe jackson - summer in the city - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #81 ****************************** To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. 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