From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #121 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, October 18 2000 Volume 03 : Number 121 In this issue: - Re: answer to several threads... re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? merkin masada (long) Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Re: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough Re: AMM/Autumn Uprising speed copied byron ? Re: Zero Masada would be enough Re: Zero Masada would be enough Re: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough Tonic Re: Tonic Re: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? Masada = Coleman + Jewish Scales? Re: Tonic Re: KF ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:15:26 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: answer to several threads... > Naninani - i've given it a listen this morning at a cd store and he first > track got my first smile this week. the disparity between the sax solo and > the machingun and suffering is just hillarious. Yes, this is the "moment" I was referring to. It's actually the reason why I have the cd in my collection today. I suppose that track with the fire engine and ambulance is reasonably funny as well for a listen or two. But the inclusion of that 18 minute scream track really annoys me... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:17:41 EDT From: "Bruno Bissonnette" Subject: re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? Well I was the one who asked Frith that a long while ago... and for some reason I kept his answer, which is: Bruno - I think it takes courage to know when you've done what you set out to do and then move on - Naked City is certainly one of the most successful projects any of the members have been involved in on a commercial level, we could tour til doomsday and live very comfortably, but John has a lot of fish to fry and so do we, so I figure that's great for everyone.... Maybe the reunion tour will happen when we're in our 80's? (the following is his answer to my other question: "did you ever feel limited by playing just bass guitar in NC?") You should know that I have never regarded playing bass as a limitation. I love to play bass, and I miss playing with Joey B more than I can say. It's another instrument, with its own constraints to overcome, and I've been playing it at least as long as I've played guitar, without ever confusing one with the other. (and another question, which was something like: "any special moments you remember from your time in NC?") As for recollections of the band, that would take a book - maybe one day... cheers fred >Hello, > >Fred Frith wrote a good answer to that question on his mailing list >some >time ago. Maybe somebody out there have it, or somebody would be >so kind >to go through the archive for the rest of us? :-) > >ARTHUR_G _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:09:53 +0300 From: Leonides Kluev Subject: merkin masada (long) AG> Has the Bar Kokhbah ensemble ever played any of the Ennio Morricone AG> songs in concert? I think they do one or two on the new version of The AG> Big Gundown, right? ábsolutely. John Zorn - The Big Gundown. John Zorn Plays the Music of Ennio Morricone. 15th Anniversary Edition. Tzadic TZ 7328. (C)(P)2000 Tzadik. (Bonus tracks) 11. The Sicilian Clan 3:20 Mark Feldman (violin); Eric Friedlander (cello); Marc Ribot (guitar); Greg Cohen (bass); Joey Baron (drums); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). 12. Macchie Solari 3:29 Miho Hatori (voice); Jamie Saft (keyboards). 13. The Ballad of Hank McGain (vocal) 5:27 Mike Patton (voice); Jamie Saft (keyboards); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). 14. Svegliatti & Uccidi 3:03 Marc Ribot (guitar); Derec Bailey (guitar); Trevor Dunn (bass); Joey Baron (drums). 15. Chi Mai 3:06 Mark Feldman (violin); Eric Friedlander (cello); Marc Ribot (guitar); Greg Cohen (bass); Joey Baron (drums); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). 16. The Ballad of Hank McGain (instrumental) 5:25 Jamie Saft (keyboards); Cyro Baptisto (percussion). All compositions by Ennio Morricone Leonides - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:42:52 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming? On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:47:08 GMT "Arthur Gadney" wrote: > > Still the mystery about "Radio Part 2" remains. Frith was also asked about > this but more or less avoided answering. Why did they feel to stop it in the > middle of a record? Since they did not even start to record it, we cannot say in the middle. It seems like RADIO 2 was just an idea of a record that never concretized. Patrice (back from vacations). - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:41:21 EDT From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough In a message dated 10/18/00 5:25:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes: << What's wrong with that? Remember that JZ arranges those tunes for different lineups. Reinevetnting the notion of a standard? I must say that i think there's something wrong with those masada complaints. First, I think that, as i wrote in my previous post, saying that masada = OC + jewish scales is completely wrong. Listen to 'kaztatz' form gimmel, and you'll see what i mean (or you'll tell me that i'm wrong). Second, I do not like the 'progressive' ideas that undrelie what some of you write. In fact, everybody seems to agree that the musical abilities of the band are great. The wrong thing is that there's no 'revolution', no 'new things' in the masada stuff (well, and what about those bar kokhba and circle maker etc. stuff?). It's like if the music was wrong from a moral, not musical, standpoint. I do not like that. One can use the past if one wants to. Look at the beauty of Stravinsky's neoclassical works (Look at them and flame on...;-)). Look at the way IS used the old themes and ideas in a new, creative way. JZ is doing the VERY SAME THING imo. >> First of all, reinventing the idea of a standard is not something one can just decide to do. Even if one's works are eventually accepted as standards, its the rest of the world that passes judgement on that, not the artist. Rearranging a tune 1,000 times does not a standard make. A similar thing applies to the songbook idea, not to mention the idea the a comparison of the Masada 'songbook' with that of Monk is utterly laughable anyway. Speaking for myself, something does not have to be revolutionary in order to be interesting. Its just that I find Masada utterly boring. The concept behind it could MAYBE be interesting, but the execution of it is not. I have a feeling that most others on the list who don't like it would feel vaguely similar. Morally speaking, perhaps there is something wrong with releasing album after album of the SAME stuff after you've gained fans that have 'trusted' you. I mean, the whole Masada IV thing, forcing people at first to buy all the others and send in for a 20 minute release of the SAME thing? Then releasing it and charging almost full price? As for Stravinsky, I've been listening to Strav for about 15 years and do not hear any shred of his influence. In fact the description of Masada that you take issue with is as concise as accurate as one could get. In can think of few musics that can be summed up so neatly. - -matt mitchell ps Stravinsky's 'neoclassic' stuff was always his least interesting music, as far as I was concerned, at least. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:46:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: AMM/Autumn Uprising As someone whose chief interest is the jazz/free jazz tradition, I had similar thoughts. Attending all three nights of the Autumn Uprising, I thought the two most praiseworthy bands after AAM were KONK and pianist Dan DeChellis' trio. Both were what I would call 2000 mainstream jazz bands, working in the post-Ornette, post-Coltrane tradition. I already knew of the fine work of Charlie Kohlhase, Nate McBride and Curt Newton, but Taylor Ho Bynum also impressed as a endlessly inventive trumpeter. The same experimentation illuminated the work of percussionist Ravish Momin who played with DeChellis. AAM was particularly noteworthy because, as Brian said, the members were actually doing what many of the other bands were attempting to emulate. Most fascinating for me in the performance was to watch the movement of the musicians that translated certain gestures into the sounds you hear on the CDs. That said, I'm going to be in the minority (of one?) here and say that I found the Rowe solo only moderately interesting. The support and sounding board(s) he gets from Tilbury and Prevost definitely help paint the overall improv picture. Without them, and despite his many effects, he seemed searching for what wasn't there. I should also try to be positive, but I found two of the groups really off putting. Due Process may have been noisy and lively. But the schtick of playing with amps, tape recorders, a turntable and toys wearied very quickly. And one member's leaping around in front of his deafening toys, reminded me of nothing so much as a teenager pretending to play air guitar while blasting Led Zepplin tapes. Barn Owl was disappointing for the opposite reason. Seemingly very young, the band members seemed to think that if everything was played very, very softly and perhaps at random it would approximate an AAM sound. It didn't, any more than a high school Dixieland band reading a "St. Louis Blues" chart sounds like The Hot Five. Ken Waxman (N.P. AAM: Before driving to the chapel.. Before that: Henry "Red" Allen: His Best Recordings Before That:Kidd Jordan/Joel Futtereman: Revelation) - --- "R. Lynn Rardin" wrote: Whether or not the preceeding groups were successful, the simple fact that we heard 4 groups prior to AMM taking the stage, several of which "plowed similar areas" imagine how tough it would be to play on the same bill as AMM, especially if your music was in a similar vein to their work?! It might have been a smart move to program a bit more variety on Saturday night. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:00:53 +0200 From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" Subject: speed copied byron ? Zorn-agains, Did any of you notice the apparent similarity of "Graphic Ridiculous" by Chris Speed on 'Iffy' and "Bernhard Goetz, James Ramseur And Me" by Don Byron on 'Romance with the Unseen' ? Can this happen by accident ? Rob..................... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:50:43 EDT From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough In a message dated 00-10-17 12:04:42 EDT, you write: >From: >To: >> This idea of "importance" that's been being bandied around lately, of >whether >> or not something is revoultionary, reactionary, original or derivative, >> strikes me as being much ado about nothing. >> I seek out what I enjoy listening to. Important? History will >I think for some people, these two areas probably largely overlap. I know >that personally, I'm a very critical listener, and I usually don't enjoy >music that seems derivative or strongly reminiscent of something I've heard >before. I don't mean that in some kind of intellectual or analytical way; I >just mean that music that sounds terribly familiar and/or doesn't offer a >new challenge usually doesn't end up being interesting to listen to. Yeah, that's probably true for me as well, but less so than it used to be. I mean, I used to consider it a guilty pleasure how much more I enjoy the solo piano music of Grieg than I do Schoenberg. Schoenberg is certainly more original and influential than Grieg, but I could care less at this point. (I still have a soft spot for Webern and Berg, though.) >Which two? The duet with Cecil Taylor from the big FMP Berlin '88 box (the only disc of it I don't like), and "Yankees" with Zorn & Lewis. > As for the jackhammer comparisons, you >should check out some acoustic Bailey, as he can frequently be quite >lyrical. Try "Aida" if it's still floating around anywhere. It wasn't meant to suggest a parallel in sound, just a parallel in how much it does for me personally on a musical level. >You'd rather listen to the Backstreet Boys, yeesh. . . Yeeshed as charged. Dave Royko - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:56:35 EDT From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough In a message dated 00-10-18 08:43:59 EDT, steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE writes: >On rec.music.bluenote a week or two ago you said you'd only heard the >duo with Cecil Taylor; what have you heard since? Yankees (at your suggestion). I'm not sorry I did, though I can't say it changed my feelings. My main point is more that I've come to accept that what I like doesn't neccessarily correspond with what's 'important.' At least not in music. In medicine, well, that's another story ;-) Dave Royko - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:59:51 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough > Rearranging a tune 1,000 times does not a standard make. A similar thing > applies to the songbook idea, not to mention the idea the a comparison of the > Masada 'songbook' with that of Monk is utterly laughable anyway. As someone said before, a songbook is a book of songs... that is all... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:04:17 +0100 From: Marcel Cobussen Subject: Tonic This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------B7A2F5B2E36CDEB19E849F57 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be visiting NY next week. I would like to see some concert in The Tonic. Can anybody tell me the address of this place? Thanks - -- Marcel Cobussen Erasmus University Rotterdam FHKW Postbus 1738 3000 DR Rotterdam tel. 010-4082474 (work) tel. 010-2800081 (private) fax. 010-4089135 - --------------B7A2F5B2E36CDEB19E849F57 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="cobussen.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Marcel Cobussen Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cobussen.vcf" begin:vcard n:Cobussen;Marcel tel;work:P.O. Box 1738, 3000 DR Rotterdam x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:Cobussen@fhk.eur.nl fn:Marcel Cobussen end:vcard - --------------B7A2F5B2E36CDEB19E849F57-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:07:41 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Tonic In a message dated 10/18/00 12:05:27 PM, cobussen@fhk.eur.nl writes: << Can anybody tell me the address of this place? >> all the info you need is at www.tonic107.com. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:22:57 +0200 From: Julien Quint Subject: Re: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release? I've never listened to "Nani Nani" or "Weird Little Boy" since they got such bad reviews on the list. I think the two worst Zorn CDs that I have are the Knitting Factory Cobra and "Taboo & Exile". The packaging of the latter is really great, which redeems it a bit; the CD itself is not that bad on its own but seeing all the people involved it should have been so much better. - -- Julien - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:24:09 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: Masada = Coleman + Jewish Scales? I've always pretty much gone along with this 'definition' for Masada, but today I was listening to one of the cds and came up with the following observations/questions: I haven't heard the hugest amount of Ornette Coleman (probably about 5 albums in all, some not more than once) but I couldn't help thinking that many of the styles/feels on this particular cd (Gimel) are not derivative of Coleman at all, and that the parallel is made too quickly simply because of the lineup being the same as one of Coleman's. Is this observation incorrect? Or can people point me in the direction of Coleman stuff sounding like Ziphim, Hazor and Hekhal, for example? Also, Masada is incredibly tight... would I be correct in saying that Coleman's stuff is generally very loose (not saying by any means that that is a bad thing) or are there Coleman recordings that have a similar tightness to Masada? Thanks... Julian. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:37:30 -0400 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: Tonic ><< Can anybody tell me the address of this place? >> > >all the info you need is at www.tonic107.com. Or perhaps the more memorable www.tonicnyc.com Dan Hewins - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:46:09 -0400 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Re: KF - --============_-1240234877==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 11:46 PM -0400 10/17/00, Jesse Kudler wrote: >For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this >week's Village Voice about their financial troubles > >http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0042/sotc.shtml This article is especially interesting in light of the job posting I saw on Monter.com recently: US-NY-New York City-#2 leader/COO/CFO - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mid-sized(75 employees) music/internet focused company with operations in LA & NY needs strong #2 person, budget and accounting versed, excellent & strong people skills, biz dev & contracts easy, lots of experience in entertainment and/or media industry, entrepenural minded. Chairman/CEO looking for someone to share responsibilty to build a company as it grows from current 15m in business to 200m in business over next 3 years. Hard work and dedication a must. Send me an email with explanation of why it is you. KnitMedia/Knitting Factory, md@knit.net, fax: 212-219-3401 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Additional Information Salary: $100,000.00 to $175,000.00 per year Position Type: Employee - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Contact Information Michael Dorf md@knit.net KnitMedia/Knitting Factory 74 Leonard Street NY NY 10013 Fax: (212) 219-3401 Hmmmm... Dan Hewins - --============_-1240234877==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: KF
At 11:46 PM -0400 10/17/00, Jesse Kudler wrote:
For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this
week's Village Voice about their financial troubles
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0042/sotc.shtml

This article is especially interesting in light of the job posting I saw on Monter.com recently:

US-NY-New York City-#2 leader/COO/CFO
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mid-sized(75 employees) music/internet focused company with operations in LA & NY needs strong #2 person, budget and accounting versed, excellent & strong people skills, biz dev & contracts easy, lots of experience in entertainment and/or media industry, entrepenural minded. Chairman/CEO looking for someone to share responsibilty to build a company as it grows from current 15m in business to 200m in business over next 3 years. Hard work and dedication a must. Send me an email with explanation of why it is you. KnitMedia/Knitting Factory, md@knit.net, fax: 212-219-3401

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Information
Salary: $100,000.00 to $175,000.00 per year
Position Type: Employee
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact Information
Michael Dorf
md@knit.net
KnitMedia/Knitting Factory
74 Leonard Street
NY NY 10013
Fax: (212) 219-3401



Hmmmm...

Dan Hewins
- --============_-1240234877==_ma============-- - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #121 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com