From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #285 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, February 14 2001 Volume 03 : Number 285 In this issue: - Re: news on Bobby Previte's web site Re: Boredoms side projects Zappa and Penman: do we need critics Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics Re: cecil taylor again Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics patton, etc. Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics "jazz" in real life Re: patton, etc. George T. Simon, dead at 88 Re: cecil taylor again Re: What's the list of essentials for Patton? It's always a great day when you find elephants bathing in your front yard. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:38:54 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: news on Bobby Previte's web site On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:07:30 -0500 Dan Hewins wrote: > > >The record is credited to Bobby and Jamie Saft. There are some female vocals, > >and also what sounds like some guitar (but it could be guitar played by Jamie > >on keyboards). There are 10 untitled tracks, no liner notes or any indications > >to shed some light on what this project is about. > > It also could be Jamie playing guitar on guitar. In fact it sounds more like these 70's synthesizers that you hold like a guitar :-). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:52:21 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Boredoms side projects - --- Arthur Gadney wrote: > I've been looking into some Boredoms sideprojects > recently, and I'm looking > for information on OOIOO, Hanadensha and ROVO. I heard Hanadensha's NARCOTIC GUITAR (?) not long ago and enjoyed it; acid-washed, guitar-driven neopsyche, with some harmonica I remember enjoying. I liked it quite a bit. I heard one ROVO track on a Japan Not For Sale comp and thought it was interesting; kind of a live drum-and-bass kind of thing, if memory serves, with noise and lots of instrumentation; it would seem that some Naked City and Ground Zero fans who enjoy the more rock-type aspects of the music might enjoy this type of thing. BTW, has anyone heard the new Boredoms? Hope nobody's asked about this yet. Here's the description, from Forced Exposure: "Vision Creation Newsun follows the groovitude of the much-love Super Are with additional funkiness and space-time continuosity. It is funk, it is trance, it is drum'n'bass, and it is wayyyyy psychedelic. The Boredoms' pirouettes into new musical highs with each subsequent release have consistently impressed the world's rich supply of joyless humbugs, impressed the clinically indifferent, and amazed the unamazeable. They've been doing it for years. The same reliable line-up -- vocalist Yamantaka Eye leading a celebratory loin-cloth journey to the heart of the sun; guitarist Yamamoto Seiichi surfing grooves effortlessly with the silkiest pickin' since Ry Cooder discovered Sangria; Yoshimi P-we adding her graceful-as-the-kitchen-sink drumming style while keeping it with the corps; plus a new starship trooper who just pushes the beat farther into space -- that has always created music for all 'noids to rejoice to." I suppose that's not much help, but it's entertaining. - ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:34:40 -0500 From: "Steve Spangler" Subject: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics Didn't Zappa say something to the effect of: Critics are ignorant to music, and they're writing to an audience that's ignorant about music. I think it's in The Real Frank Zappa Book. I seem to remember his rant against critics as quite funny. He really hated these guys, and I think he realized early on that they were driven more by profits than opinions or "writing to inform." Steve Spangler - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:37:48 -0500 From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics >He really hated these guys, and I think he realized early on that >they were driven more by profits than opinions or "writing to >inform." Yeah, music criticism is an easy path to riches and fame. I remember Robin Leach interviewing Christgau like it was only yesterday and of course Simon Frith had to flee to the Bahamas to avoid those huge British taxes. Hold on, my broker is calling.... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:43:43 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics Packard Goose from Joe's Garage: Maybe you thought I was the Packard Goose Or the Ronald MacDonald of the nouveau-abstruse Well fuck all them people, I don't need no excuse For being what I am Do you hear me, then? All them rock 'n roll writers is the worst kind of sleaze Selling punk like some new kind of English disease Is that the wave of the future? Aw, spare me please! Oh no, you gotta go Who do you write for? I wanna know I believe you is the government's whore And keeping peoples dumb (I'm really dumb) Is where you're coming from And keeping peoples dumb (I'm really dumb) Is where you're coming from Fuck all them writers with the pen in their hand I will be more specific so they might understand They can all kiss my ass But because it's so grand They best just stay away Hey, hey, hey Hey, Joe, who did you blow? Moe pushed the button boy And you went to the show Better suck a little harder or the shekels won't flow And I don't mean your thumb (Don't mean your thumb) So on your knees you bum Just tell yourself it's yum (Yourself it's yum) And suck it 'till you're numb Journalism's kinda scary And of it we should be wary Wonder what became of Mary? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:56:22 -0800 From: Tosh Subject: Re: cecil taylor again If I may add one more thing, and actually I think someone else made this point: Seeing Cecil Taylor live is the very definition of 'amazing.' I saw him in a Hollywood club maybe ten years ago. Seeing him was like watching a classic Warner Brothers Cartoon. I swore I saw the piano keys leap into the air and back into the piano. Very controlled intensity that left me sweating just by siting there. I don't think a recording can capture that. - -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:39:07 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics In a message dated 2/14/01 12:45:00 PM, keith@pfmentum.com writes, among other simplistic Zappa lyrics: << Journalism's kinda scary And of it we should be wary Wonder what became of Mary? >> I'd say these three lines, in and of themselves, go a long way towards bolstering Penman's case. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:41:54 From: "William York" Subject: patton, etc. >Okay kids. Today's assignment: >I've only heard FNM and a few Bungles. What's the list of essentials for >someone wanting to buy his son a stack of Pattons? (so he can then >borrow >them...) >Thanks for responses, >RL My opinions ... 1. Mr. Bungle: Disco Volante - This is my favorite 'rock' album of the 1990s and one that I played over and over for months after getting over my initial phase of being just a little repelled by it. Roughly comparable to Naked City, but with much more of a studio focus. Incredible amount of detail, excessive organ, heavy death-metal guitars, jazz breakdowns (with Trevor Dunn playing a lot of double bass and Graham Connah doing piano on a few tracks). 2. Mr. Bungle: California - more accessible than the above, but not quite as extraordinary as Disco Volante to me. However it may be a better introduction if someone is looking for something a liitle more song based. There is a heavy influence of stuff like Beach Boys, Burt Bacharach, even a little Tom Jones and Neil Diamond. But my favorites are "Golem II," which sounds like a cross between Devo and Parliament, and "Ars Moriendi," which seems pretty obviously inspired by Taraf de Haidouks or some other Romanian groups, but with the addition of some great dm guitar breakdowns. 3. Faith No More: Angel Dust - i have to admit that I never payed any atention to this band in high school and by college I wouldn't have deigned to listen to them as I was in a pretty snobby, experimental music-only sort of phase. But if you get past the mainstream-ish production, there is some really unusual and varied stuff here. Nothing as complex or weird as Mr. Bungle, but, for a well-known band that just sold two-million copies and had allthose hits (like "Epic"), this is pretty out on a limb. They never really got much credit for doing this, though, I don't think. Also, one major thing to point out is that Mr. Bungle is actually very collaborative -- it is not just Patton's band. On Disco Volante, he only had a hand in writing three or four songs; Trey Spruance (guitar) and Trevor Dunn (bass) wrote most of the stuff, and Spruance did the production, which is amazing. He also produced California, which is even more elaborate. One other thing, I wouldn't over-emphasize the connection of Patton with all the new rap-metal bands such as Limp Bizkit. I think that is pretty insulting (even if FNM's "The Real Thing," etc. did influence this stuff). I think bands like estradasphere, carnival in coal, and a bunch of the more 'extreme' metal bands who have listened to Bungle/Patton are more worthy heirs to this 'tradition.' Anyway... sorry for the length, as well as for annoying anyone who hates this subject or already knows this stuff. WY _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:52:08 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Zappa and Penman: do we need critics >>>I'd say these three lines, in and of themselves, go a long way towards bolstering Penman's case.<<< I'd say that Penman thinking precious time should be taken to make such a case goes a long way towards illustrating Zappa's satire. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:52:40 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: "jazz" in real life in a newsday article looking at the jazz scene in the aftermath of the jazz tv show, gene seymour says: Meanwhile, since the series began last month, jazz record sales are estimated to have gone up to a 4 percent share of the total number of records sold in the United States. Before, the numbers were close to 2 percent. and talks about a packed house to see wynton at the knit, among other phenomena. it's an ok article. i'll send it to whomever wants. but i've noticed big crowds lately. packed houses the two nights i went to see other dimensions in music at the knit, a good crowd for roy campbell's shades and colors of trane at the brecht forum, and two pretty full sunday nights at downtown music gallery (although they were for decidedly nonjazzy improv sets). has anyone else noticed a hoppinger scene of late? are everyday mortals, at least for the moment, bothering to go out and check live music? jess wonderin kg np: pj harvey - is this desire? (not jazz) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:58:29 EST From: BlackBook78@aol.com Subject: Re: patton, etc. Interesting that you mentioned those albums. I recently started my Patton collection with: Fantomas Mr. Bungle-Disco Volante FNM-Angel Dust I've yet to listen to Fantomas, but I agree with the statements about DV and AD. Five years ago I would have never imagined buying a Faith No More album, and of course the only song that stood out was Epic, which I classified simply as a moderately interesting rock song with a good ending, but didnt necessitate me to buy the entire CD. Now how do people feel about Funkadelic, particularly "Maggot Brain"? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:13:10 -0500 From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com Subject: George T. Simon, dead at 88 Grammy-winning music critic Simon dead at 88 By LARRY McSHANE Associated Press Writer NEW YORK (AP) - Music critic George T. Simon, the original Glenn Miller Band drummer who swapped his sticks for a pen and eventually earned a Grammy for his acclaimed liner notes, has died at the age of 88. Simon, a big band expert who also co-wrote songs with Duke Ellington and Alec Wilder, died Tuesday night at New York University Medical Center. The cause of death was pneumonia following a battle with Parkinson's disease, a friend, archivist Grayson Dantzic, said Wednesday. The native New Yorker was part of a musical family: his brother Dick, the co- founder of the publishing house Simon & Schuster, studied to be a classical pianist, and his nieces include Oscar-winning singer-songwriter Carly Simon. Simon was born May 9, 1912, the son of a milliner. At Harvard University, he organized his own band before graduating in 1934 and taking a job at Metronome magazine - a national music publication where he was soon championing big-band music. Simon earned $25 per month for his work. In 1937, while still writing for Metronome, he sat in with the fledgling Glenn Miller Band and played the drums as the band recorded its first half-dozen songs. He then opted for writing over drumming, and became Metronome's editor-in-chief in 1939. For the next 16 years he held the job, championing artists from Frank Sinatra to Ella Fitzgerald to Peggy Lee. During World War II, he played with Miller's Army Air Forces Band and recorded "V-Discs" for the soldiers and sailors overseas, persuading top musical acts of the day to volunteer their time. His music career also included writing lyrics for songs by Ellington and Wilder - - the latter under the pseudonym Buck Pincus. He served on the advisory board for the New York Jazz Festival from 1960-72. As a writer, he worked for the New York Post and the now-defunct New York Herald-Tribune. He also served as executive director of the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, the organization behind the Grammy Awards. Eventually, Simon wrote several books on the swing era: "The Sinatra Report" in 1965, "The Big Bands" in 1968, and "Glenn Miller and His Orchestra" in 1974. "The Big Bands" was honored with an award from the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP). "Simon tells it like it all was," Sinatra wrote in a jacket blurb for the prize- winning book. In 1977, Simon won his Grammy Award for best album notes - his contribution to the collection "Bing Crosby: A Legendary Performer." Simon was hand-picked by Crosby to write the liner notes for the release. Survivors include his wife of 53 years, Beverly Jean Simon; their children, Julie Ann Simon, of Oakland, Calif., and Thomas Simon, of New York City; grandchildren, Jenny, Max and Andrew; six nieces and a nephew. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:24:33 -0500 From: Matt Teichman Subject: Re: cecil taylor again Well, whatever their formal differences, I think we can lump them together historically. Although Taylor may not have been a direct influence on these artists (i.e. they may not have listened to his records 24/7) I think it's safe to say that his influence reached all freejazzers indirectly at the very least, especially pianists. Of course, my music history knowledge is next-to-nothing and any corrections on the part of a more knowledgable party are welcome. >Are you "lumping" these artists in a group? I think >maybe because there's more to Cecil's music than to >any of these other artists. It's harder to digest. >The apparent similarities, the energy and generic >concerns "free jazz, etc.", are only superficial. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: What's the list of essentials for Patton? The absolute essential is the ADULT THEMES FOR VOICE album on Tzadik. I couldn't dig the PRANZO OLTRANZISTA (Tzadik) very much, though you might like it, and there's a cast of luminaries there. Also, for extreme dada noise magic, maybe you'd like Patton's collaboration with Masami Akita aka Merzbow, MALDOROR; not my cup of tea, but if you might light it. But the ADULT THEMES solo voice record is mandatory listening: Patton strips self of rawk, big guitars, and real-time cartoon google, to do something beyond strange. Many of my friends who like mostly hip-hop and death metal seem to dig this the most. An insane essential. I'm assuming Bungle fans have already checked out the Secret Chiefs Trio, who are also lots of fun. - ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:07:06 -0800 From: "Martin Wisckol" Subject: It's always a great day when you find elephants bathing in your front yard. My most erudite and swinging companero Michael J. Williams offers this meditation on David Soldier and the Thai Elephants Tricycle Riding Orchestra, including an irresistible eyewitness account. On the subject of art and music as it relates to Thai elephants: There's a wonderful old silent movie filmed in Thailand in the 1920s by the makers of King Kong: Merian Cooper and Ernest Schoedsack; The movie is called, "Chang," which is Thai (and Lao) for elephant. The film has been updated with a soundtrack by the Thai music group, Fong Naam (water bubble), which specializes in creating new music from the materials of Thai and classical music. The film is quaint, both comical and touching, and innovative for its time, and the music is engaging in itself, though obviously confined by the programmatic needs mostly to coloration and effects. One of the most absurd experiences I've had was witnessing a Thai elephant combo jamming in a fairly remote village called Ban Pahsouk a couple klicks from the Cambodian border between the Thai border cities of Ta Praya and Aranyaphratet. The elephant band was just one of a series of entertainments that were part of the show, which basically was an elephant circus. The acts included an elephant riding an especially built elephant tricycle, elephant soccer and relay races, all to the accompaniment of a maniacal master of ceremonies creating imagined, comical dialogues between the elephants and a dee-jay spinning 70s and 80s disco hits like, "Play that Funky Music White Boy," "Funky Town," "Cut the Cake," with some Sly. Santana and Van Halen mixed in as well. They cut the canned music for the elephant band segment, during which the half-dozen or so elephants in the show each "played" an instrument with her trunk. One held a drumstick in her trunk and tapped on a beat-up snare drum, another strummed on a guitar-like instrument, another used her trunk to plunk on a one-string upright bass, another blew into some kind of horn, etc. The desired effect of course was to amuse the villagers and not intended to created an especially musical outcome though I dare say that there was some potential there. Obviously this was not what David Soldier is striving for, which like a Thai elephant art project that you can find on the Web, is apparently an altruistic attempt to raise money supporting the survival of the elephants. The elephant show made me a bit sad in the way it was demeaning to the elephants as well as their keepers, especially after I had had the pleasure of petting and feeding the elephants and meeting the keepers before the show, and then, being the only foreigner there, was given the privilege of the first elephant ride inside the makeshift arena as a prelude to the show. From what I could gather, it was an itinerant show from the northeast Thai state of Surin, where there are a lot of villages of the Kui people, called the Soi by the Thai and themselves, an indigenous group with their own language linguistically akin to Khmer. The Kui have been renowned historically for their special, even mystical abilities in handling elephants. When the dry season comes and there's not much to do around their villages, the elephant tenders, probably under the direction of your typical carny promoter type, get a show together and hit the road, progressing village by village all over east and northeast Thailand. When the show arrived at Ban Pahsouk, there was excitement in the air, enhanced I believe by the fact that many of the inhabitants were themselves of Soi descent. The elephants with this show were all females and young, so they were not so big, although their backs were still about eight to 12 feet high. They were docile and seemed to be enjoying themselves. Before the show, the trainers fed them in the village with whatever fruits and leaves they could forage, with the townspeople and myself petting them and feeding them mangoes. Then the trainers gave them sponge baths at the pump well in front of my brother-in-law's house on stilts, where I was staying. It's always a great day when you find elephants bathing in your front yard. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #285 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". 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