From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #352 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Saturday, March 24 2001 Volume 03 : Number 352 In this issue: - transgression/Ribot (was Zorn + Children) Re: Wall to Wall Miles Davis Re: atlanta Re: transgression/Ribot (was Zorn + Children) Re: Re: atlanta Re: Georg Katzer Re: rabih abou-khalil Re: Z-List/clearing parties Re: Z-List porn flirt thread Re: Z-List porn flirt thread RE: online store comparisons? Online stores Re: online store comparisons? Transgressive Auteurism FW: RE: Frisell/Sex Mob (was: Wall to Wall Miles Davis) Dead Ringer Re: Transformative Auteurism RE: online store comparisons? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Handley Subject: transgression/Ribot (was Zorn + Children) - --- Bill Ashline wrote: > Zorn considers himself a transgressive auteur. He > thinks that music, if > it's worth anything, should always test the > boundaries of the possible. Speaking of said boundaries, I remember reading (albeit not throroughly, unfortunately, and a few years ago) an essay by Michel Foucault called "A Preface to Transgression"---I believe it's been anthologized in POWER/KNOWLEDGE and AESTHETICS; since that deals with Bataille, etc, maybe it'd be of interest to folks. Easier than much other Foucault. Bill, did you make the point _why_ Bataille (cf. EROTISM) makes "shock value" a moot point? I don't quite get that. And since I read this years (?) ago and it popped back into my head, here's a tidbit from our favorite Paul Auster lookalike, Marc Ribot: "A lot of my favorite music has been transgressive in some way so a lot of my favorite bands have also been transgressive in some way. . . One type of performance that I admire is one that transgresses against a commonly accepted falsehood. I mean not blind transgression, like if I went up and stabbed somebody in the audience, that would be transgressing norms of behavior. On the other hand I think if you can successfully transgress some piece of bullshit that people don't even know is their assumption then it can come to create powerful music. I'm always on the lookout for that.... I sensed a boundary and I thought 'What happens if you transgress it?' It's more interesting to transgress something once you've found it. So I tried to and you know I wrote a couple of tunes on this record. I wrote this tune called "Yo! I Killed You're God." . . . As it turns out a lot of my friends also are Jewish. So there was sort of a conversation started. Zorn is also very interested in transgression. And Zorn had sort of an opportunity to curate this two days of a [Radical Jewish Culture] festival in Munich, two days of an art project‹I think in 1992. And what better place to be transgressive than in Munich. I mean it's almost guaranteed." (source: http://www.jsps.com/stories/ribot1.shtml) - ----s ===== "Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life... Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!" ---Talking Heads, "Electric Guitar" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:56:10 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Wall to Wall Miles Davis In a message dated 3/23/01 8:45:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, Samerivertwice@aol.com writes: << Okay, since I'll be occupied all day and won't be able to listen to this, let alone drive down to NYC to attend, who's going to record the whole bugger? >> I'd hoped to record this over the 'Web, but even with a high-speed connection I still get time-outs. Bummer bummer. - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:56:07 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: atlanta In a message dated 3/23/01 5:59:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, aargh881@yahoo.com writes: << i am going to be moving there within the next couple months. Is any of you from there? And if so are there any cool places to see gigs and what are they? Help a Zornster out. >> Hi Tom- I'm not an Atlantan, but I post a monthly sked of happenings that go there when they are emailed to me by a friend of mine who has a lot to do with booking many of the non-pop music events that happen there. It's not anywhere near the NYC scene, but there's a handful of events going on each week- enough to keep your disposable income in jeopardy. There's also a couple of *great* radio stations there on the left of the dial. Last time I was in the city (a few years ago), one of the DJs at the station run by Georgia State U. was playing all Tzadik-label stuff during his show. I wish I could say that the music-buying scene was good. Unless anything's changed recently, the music selection sucks for a city the size of Atlanta. The selection at the Manifest store here in Columbia, SC beats the hell out of anything Atlanta has, to be honest. - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:30:27 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: transgression/Ribot (was Zorn + Children) On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 10:55:30AM -0800, Scott Handley wrote: > Speaking of said boundaries, I remember reading > (albeit not throroughly, unfortunately, and a few > years ago) an essay by Michel Foucault called "A > Preface to Transgression"---I believe it's been > anthologized in POWER/KNOWLEDGE and AESTHETICS; since > that deals with Bataille, etc, maybe it'd be of > interest to folks. Easier than much other Foucault. While I haven't read any of these texts, I do get annoyed at the way that some artists (who I suspect haven't read them either) handle the idea of transgression. Actions which have no purpose other than to offend and shock are defended with the statement that the artists want to "test the boundaries". The question of what they will do with the information once they've found them is met with an uncomprehending blank stare. I trust that Zorn and his cronies have worked things out somewhat further than that, but way too many people find offensiveness to be its own ... uh ... reward. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:02:16 -0500 From: wlt4@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: atlanta >There's also a couple of *great* radio stations there on the left of >the dial. Last time I was in the city (a few years ago), one of Yep, WREK is wonderful free-form; you can get an idea from the fact that its two longest-running shows (almost 20 years for each!) are a very nice swing retrospective and "Destroy All Music" (pretty much what it sounds like). A few years back some of the student government people decided the station was out of control and tried to make it more mainstream. Basically that only resulted in some broad guidelines of mostly rock (actually "rock") in the afternoon: it's still quite common to hear Peter Brotzmann, Tony Conrad, Sun Ra, Derek Bailey, etc, not to mention Led Zepplin bootlegs, Israeli pop, obscure rap, entire ragas, death metal, SubGenius propaganda, 18th century string quartets from composers you (or at least I) have never heard of, and so on. Imagine a disorganized WFMU and you've got the idea. Check for yourself (live streaming and archived shows) at http://www.wrek.org The George Tech station is WRAS and five or six years ago it was pretty standard college radio, mainly playing major label "alternative" stuff. Now there's rarely any major labels around and they're playing way more than the CMJ picks ranging from seven-inches to anything they think interesting. Nothing too extreme--no Merzbow--but you can hear Blackalicious bumped up against Hank Williams, Serge Gainsbourg against the Teletubbies, Spanish-language rap against Mouse on Mars. Some great specialty shows too. Also of occasional interest but more sporadic are WCLK (all jazz though mostly schlock, a PD change two or three years ago really dumbed it down), WRFG ("community" programming with some decent music shows, esp a great blues show), WABE (typical NPR). >I wish I could say that the music-buying scene was good. Unless >anything's changed recently, the music selection sucks for a city >the size of Atlanta. This is pretty much true. However, check out Wuxtry for a good indie and jazz selection and Criminal Records also for indies/slipstream stuff. The legendary Wax n Facts is so cramped that shopping there isn't really worth the trouble. Because of all the label offices here, there's often some great stuff showing up in used stores. There's also a Tower but it's perpetually mismanaged and way too pricey. The best overall selection though also a bit pricey is Borders, particularly the Buckhead store. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:16:58 +0100 From: Dirlack@t-online.de (Bjoern Dirlack) Subject: Re: Georg Katzer > (1) Does anyone have any more information on his work I am not very familiar to his work. All I can say is that he is still working (aged around 65) and his works were performed quite often in Berlin. He collaborated with improvising musicians since the 70s. At my first Katzer concert in the late 80s (with Wolfgang Fuchs and Bill Smith) I saw a computer on stage in a musical context for the first time. Bjoern - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:14:26 -0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: rabih abou-khalil >From: "Martin Wisckol" >Sr. Chatterton was nping: Rabih Abou-Khalil (w/Ellery Eskelin and a whole >bunch of other m/fs) The Cactus of Knowledge > >what is this? a new release for Sr. Abou-Khalil... the new enja? Yes, Enja ENJ-9401 2 who else is on it? Eddie Allen & Dave Ballou trumpets, Tom Varner french horn, Dave Bargeron euphonium, Michel Godard tuba, Gabriele Mirabassi clarinet, Antonio Hart alto, Vincent Courtois cello, Nabil Khaiat frame drums, Jarrod Cagwin drums... is it on the street? Got it from the rep for Enja's distributor, should be in stores if not now, then momentarily... and, most importantly, how is it? After a couple of listens, I'm tempted to say it is one of his best albums so far... > > >- > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:22:11 EST From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: Z-List/clearing parties In a message dated 3/22/01 1:01:12 PM, you wrote: <> i musta been lucky. during height of disco/punk era we'd both dance and play PiL and Unit Structures at my parties while the video showed not porn but britten's opera "the turn of the screw" or strauss' "elektra." shame most of these friends are dead. hard to make a good party anymore. maybe i'll join in on the boyzes s'n'm thingie here online. ...steve koenig n.p.: braxton/james fei/matthew welch : comp 247-dedicated to oum kaltsoum (leo) - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:26:13 EST From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Re: Z-List porn flirt thread In a message dated 3/22/01 1:01:12 PM, you wrote: << It's helped me a lot. Now I just need to find someone else's inner slut. > --Mike How about getting in touch with Mr. Zorn? ;-) patRice>> inner. outer. this is getting to be like top/bottom. sheesh. i always thought my slut was an outie. zorn? all i know was he seemed to get wet meeting mauricia kagel backstage at carnegie. or was that kagel. or me? braincells dead; luckily the rest works just fine. stevie the monkeyboy n.p.: jon butcher/durrant/russell: the scenic route (before tonight's roulette gig) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:09:45 -0500 From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: Z-List porn flirt thread on 3/23/01 4:26 PM, Acousticlv@aol.com at Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/22/01 1:01:12 PM, you wrote: > > << It's helped me a lot. Now I just need to find someone else's inner slut. >> --Mike > How about getting in touch with Mr. Zorn? ;-) > patRice>> > > inner. outer. this is getting to be like top/bottom. sheesh. > i always thought my slut was an outie. Me too. But some people are innies, and then if we're all lucky, they become outies. - --Mike - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:04:26 -0700 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" Subject: RE: online store comparisons? just to add a "-" lately forced exposure takes about one week to get around to doing anthing about your order so you don't really recieve your music till about two weeks after you ordered while anomalous orders arrive often within 5-6 days. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:29:30 +1030 From: "Michael Vandelaar" Subject: Online stores They might not have a good selection of zorn-related discs but if you're buying more mainstream stuff, you could try http://www.chaosmusic.com/welcome.asp an Australian mail order outfit. The exchange rate is very favourable ... the Oz dollar has gone into freefall so you could find some bargains. Michael - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:06:29 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: online store comparisons? In a message dated 3/23/01 6:05:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu writes: << lately forced exposure takes about one week to get around to doing anthing about your order so you don't really recieve your music till about two weeks after you ordered while anomalous orders arrive often within 5-6 days. >> I've had small orders of a couple CDs take 3 weeks to arrive and had large orders of 8 or more CDs take a few days to arrive. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's a timing situation. My main (only) problem with FE was in ordering the limited edition stuff. I've missed out on a few things because they refuse to answer emails, and found out too late that they ran out of an item. Of course, by that time, everyone else had sold their copies too, leaving me SOL. - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 02:37:08 -0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Transgressive Auteurism >From: Orangejazz@aol.com >Subject: Transgressive Auteurism. > >As to Zorn as the transgressive auteur, though, is where I'd really like to >penetrate a little bit further. How does Zorn's music break the bounderies >of >possibility? Yes the branches example you cited is interesting. I think that S&M soundtracks would be one location. But also the miniatures used in Naked City and elsewhere that constantly shift focus and throw the listener out of immersion. The raising of metal motifs to "high art" in NC and Painkiller might be another. He doesn't use these transgressive images with respect to Masada however, which is a different kind of project obviously. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:49:08 -0800 From: "Dave Egan" Subject: FW: RE: Frisell/Sex Mob (was: Wall to Wall Miles Davis) - -----Original Message----- From: Dave Egan [mailto:degan@telisphere.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:48 PM To: Zorn List; ssmith36@sprynet.com Subject: RE: Frisell/Sex Mob (was: Wall to Wall Miles Davis) Yes, Bill did sit in with Sex Mob in a show in Seattle last December. It was quite a scream! Bill would play a little, and then Steven B. would yell, "More notes! More notes!" Bill just looked at him in his own way, and played just a little more. They did mostly some blues-improv. Nice tape of this - traders, contact me off-list. - - Dave - ------------- > I think that Frisell might have sat in on a Sex Mob > date in Seattle at some point - the Seattle Zony Mashers > could probably confirm this... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 22:17:21 EST From: DKuper9200@aol.com Subject: Dead Ringer Dear Zorn-listers, My name is David. I am a relative newcomer to the Zorn list, and this is my first post. I recently attended a marvelous piano recital by Mia Chung, at Merkin Hall in New York City. She included a very short piano piece by John Zorn entitled "Dead Ringer." The program notes had a brief biography of Zorn, but no information about the piece. Do any of you know anything about it? Also, if any of you were at the recital, and would like to share your thoughts about it, please do. On another subject, is there a published score for "Sebastopol?" If so, who is the publisher? I tried to order it from Patelson's, and they did not have it in any of their catalogs. Besides, the salesperson who helped me never even heard of John Zorn! Thank you for your help, David - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:58:26 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Transformative Auteurism >>>...and throw the listener out of immersion.<<< ....i.e., help the listener get his or her head out of his or her ass. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:39:54 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Handley Subject: RE: online store comparisons? - --- "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" > lately forced exposure takes about one week to get > around to doing anthing > about your order... And even then, in my experience, you might nor might not get all that you ordered. I can see why they might not want to screw with inquiries on "is it in right _now_?" but two weeks go by and you get, say most or part of your order. The rest...try again. My experiences with the superhumanly patient staff at Downtown Music Gallery, Anomalous, and Verge (who will tell you if something they distrib is not in, and offer to order) has been tops. Right now a favorite is Riouxs, who ship almost as promptly as Bruce (no one ships more promptly than Bruce) and are very cheerful. Two cents, or less, as always. - ----s ===== "Electric guitar gets run over by a car on the highway/This is a crime against the state/This is the meaning of life... Electric guitar is copied, the copy sounds better/Call this law and justice, call this freedom and liberty/I thought I perjure myself, right in front of the jury!" ---Talking Heads, "Electric Guitar" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #352 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com